0:01

The Majority Report

0:03

with Sam

0:05

Cedar. It is

0:07

Thursday, April

0:10

17th, 2025. My

0:12

name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar,

0:14

and this is the five -time award -winning Majority

0:16

Report. We are

0:18

broadcasting live in steps from

0:20

the industrially ravaged Gowanus

0:22

Canal in the heartland of

0:24

America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On

0:28

the program today, the great Naomi

0:30

Klein will be with us to

0:32

talk about Trump's End Times fascism. And

0:35

later on in the show, Dr.

0:37

Mark Allendary joins us again to

0:39

talk about RFK Jr.'s war on

0:41

public health. Also

0:44

on the program, Judge Boesberg

0:46

threatens to hold the

0:48

government in criminal contempt

0:50

over its defiance of his

0:52

order to halt the deportation of

0:55

migrants without due

0:57

process. After

0:59

traveling to El Salvador, Chris

1:01

Van Hollen, Senator,

1:04

denied the ability to

1:06

see Kilmar -Abrego -Garcia. This

1:09

comes as there

1:11

are concerns about

1:13

the safety of the people

1:15

in there, with

1:17

disturbing satellite images that we're

1:20

seeing of the CCOT facility,

1:22

and then not seeing. Video

1:26

shows ICE officers smashing the car windows

1:28

of a man in New Bedford,

1:30

Massachusetts. Trump

1:33

throws a tantrum after Fed

1:35

Chair Jerome Powell says

1:37

tariffs could exacerbate inflation and

1:39

calls for his termination

1:41

before his term ends next

1:43

year. The

1:45

powerful capitalist lobbying group, the

1:48

US Chamber of Commerce, decides

1:50

against suing the Trump administration

1:52

over the tariffs. Trump

1:55

reportedly rebuffed Netanyahu's request to

1:57

get the US to help

1:59

Israel bomb Iran's

2:02

nuclear sites Yeah,

2:04

thank God Elon Musk's SpaceX

2:06

is rumored to be getting

2:08

a contract for a missile

2:11

dome defense system over the

2:13

United States Could we just

2:15

stop planes from from crashing

2:17

please first? Maybe not a

2:19

profit in that Emma. So no, I guess

2:21

you're right The tech

2:23

capitalists need to eat Tesla

2:26

sales collapse in California and

2:28

a related

2:30

note Now that tax

2:32

day has passed the Trump

2:34

administration is gonna nuke

2:36

the IRS direct file program

2:38

so more money for

2:41

two turbo tax or whatever

2:43

New DNC vice chair

2:45

David hog launches an effort

2:47

to primary complacent Democrats. I'm

2:49

not opposed RFK

2:53

Jr. sparks outrage by

2:55

spreading ableist autism conspiracy

2:57

theories yesterday. And

3:00

lastly, the Texas House passes,

3:02

well, not lastly, second to

3:04

lastly, the Texas House passes

3:06

its plan for taxpayer -funded school

3:08

voucher programs launching one of

3:11

the largest school privatization pushes

3:13

in the country. And

3:15

lastly, Bernie

3:17

Sanders endorses Abdul El

3:19

Said for Senate

3:21

in Michigan. All this

3:23

and more on today's majority

3:26

report. Welcome to the

3:28

show, everybody. I am so

3:30

excited for this show and our

3:32

conversations that are coming up. We've got two

3:34

great guests, so let's get right into

3:36

it. Sam is out this week if you

3:38

do not remember, but it

3:40

is a majority report Thursday,

3:43

no matter what. Hello to

3:45

Russ. Hello to Matt. Let's

3:48

start with this. So

3:50

yesterday, Chief U .S. District

3:52

Judge James Bosberg of D .C.

3:54

said that he is going to

3:56

be launching official proceedings to

3:58

determine whether or not members of

4:00

the Trump administration defied

4:03

his order not to

4:05

deport the Venezuelan migrants

4:07

from the country using

4:09

the wartime Alien

4:12

enemies act again. That's only been

4:14

invoked three times before this

4:16

and all three were in wartime

4:18

and

4:20

The

4:22

Trump administration is the

4:24

Boseberg says that

4:26

they likely were In

4:29

contempt and should

4:31

face criminal contempt charges,

4:33

but he's given the Trump administration

4:35

one week to respond It's

4:37

a 46 -page order where

4:39

he outlines how the Trump

4:41

administration defied this court

4:44

order to turn the planes around. I

4:46

just want to read a little

4:49

bit of the beginning memorandum part. Here

4:52

is how he summarizes it. On

4:54

the evening of Saturday, March

4:56

15th, 2025, this court issued a

4:59

written temporary restraining order barring

5:01

the government from transferring certain individuals

5:03

into foreign custody pursuant to the

5:05

Alien Enemies Act. At the time

5:07

the order was issued, at the

5:09

time the order issued, those individuals were

5:11

on planes being flown overseas, having

5:14

been spirited out of the United

5:16

States by the government before they could

5:18

vindicate their due process rights by

5:20

contesting their removability in federal court as

5:22

the law requires. Rather

5:29

than comply with the court's order, the

5:31

government continued the hurried removal operation

5:33

early on Sunday morning, hours after the

5:35

order Uh, wait,

5:37

keep, sorry, yeah. Where,

5:41

we lost it for a sec.

5:43

Okay, early on Sunday morning,

5:45

hours after the order issued,

5:47

it transferred two plane loads

5:49

of passengers protected by the

5:51

TRO into a Salvadoran mega

5:53

-prison. TRO means a temporary restraining

5:56

order. And

5:58

that's what the Trump was in violation

6:00

of, according to Bosberg and also

6:02

just Common Sense. As this

6:04

opinion will detail, the court ultimately

6:07

determines that the government's actions on that

6:09

day demonstrate a willful disregard for

6:11

its order sufficient for the court to

6:13

conclude that probable cause exists to

6:15

find the government in criminal contempt. He's

6:17

not even saying civil contempt here,

6:19

criminal contempt. The court

6:21

does not reach such a

6:23

conclusion lightly or hastily indeed. It

6:26

has given defendants ample opportunity to

6:28

rectify or explain their actions. None

6:31

of their responses has been

6:33

satisfactory. One

6:35

might nonetheless ask how this inquiry into

6:37

compliance is able to proceed at all

6:39

given that the Supreme Court vacated the

6:41

TRO after the events in question. Now,

6:43

that is on a technicality, just to

6:45

say that here. It's because it had

6:47

expired at that time. The

6:49

court's later determination that the TRO suffered

6:51

from a legal deficit, however, does

6:53

not excuse the government's violation. Instead is

6:56

a foundational legal precept that every

6:58

judicial order must be obeyed no matter

7:00

how erroneous it may be until

7:02

a court reverses it. if a

7:04

party chooses to disobey the order

7:06

rather than wait for it to

7:08

be reversed to the judicial process

7:10

such disobedience is punishable as contempt

7:12

not withstanding any later revealed deficiencies

7:14

in the order this is common

7:16

sense here i think that gives

7:18

a good summary of that plank

7:20

of his argument which basically says

7:23

that Judicial rulings still have to

7:25

be abided by even if you

7:27

disagree with their contents even if

7:29

you plan on charging them later

7:31

on or Appealing I should say even

7:33

if you think that this judicial ruling

7:36

is completely without legal merit Your lawyer

7:38

may think that but how are

7:40

those determinations made in a court of law?

7:42

So they could have appealed this but

7:44

they still had to abide by the order

7:46

that is foundational to

7:48

the rule of law in this

7:50

country that it just just because

7:52

you dislike an order doesn't mean that you

7:54

get to completely

7:56

disregard it,

7:59

but the post memes on

8:01

Twitter about it, right?

8:03

But then that

8:05

begs the question also

8:08

like what happens

8:10

if they define order

8:12

because the This

8:16

would be, I believe,

8:18

sent to the Department of

8:20

Justice if there is

8:22

some sort of, they,

8:25

Boesberg actually follows through with criminal

8:27

contempt. And then Pam Bonny's just

8:29

not going to take up the

8:31

case. And then we're compounding this

8:33

constitutional crisis. So there's

8:35

a there's many different ways that

8:37

this can go but there's something

8:39

smart also that bozberg did in

8:41

this is that he said that

8:44

he would forego criminal contempt proceedings

8:46

if They begin the process of

8:48

due process for the folks that

8:50

were sent to seek out so

8:52

he's essentially giving them a week

8:54

to say like I I can

8:57

go forward with criminal contempt or

8:59

you can bring these folks back

9:01

to the united states so they

9:03

can have due process and i'm

9:05

not even saying that you can't

9:07

deport them but there needs to

9:09

be a process in front of

9:12

an immigration court or whatever but

9:14

if they were to take that

9:16

lifeline that bozberg is essentially providing

9:18

for them they would have to

9:20

acknowledge that they have the capacity

9:22

to bring these individuals back meaning

9:25

that they have custody over them

9:27

which is a really tricky legal

9:29

bind for them to be in

9:31

because they've been denying that they

9:33

have authority over them altogether, including

9:35

Kimara Brego Garcia. So

9:37

it's a bit of a pickle

9:40

for them, although they still

9:42

have the ace up their sleeve

9:44

in the fact that they

9:46

don't seem to be interested in

9:48

complying with the courts whatsoever,

9:50

and then we reach full -blown

9:52

constitutional crisis mode although i already

9:54

think we're there i mean

9:56

the courts have to start finding

9:58

uh... and putting penalties toward

10:01

like doj on this that's simply

10:03

what needs to go exactly

10:05

uh... the department of justice is

10:07

acting in donald trump's interest

10:09

and not even with a sliver

10:11

of the pretence of independence

10:13

but here is senator chris van

10:15

holland in el salvador He

10:18

held a press conference and, as

10:20

I mentioned, he was unable to

10:22

see Kim Marabrigo Garcia, who is

10:24

of Maryland, so this is his

10:26

constituent. This is

10:28

this press conference where he

10:30

speaks about how Trump is clearly

10:32

in violation of this order. The

10:42

Trump administration is clearly

10:44

in violation of American court

10:46

orders. That

10:57

still leaves the question, why

11:00

is the government of El Salvador

11:02

continuing to imprison a man where

11:04

they have no evidences committed any

11:06

crime and they've not been provided?

11:08

any evidence from the United States

11:10

that he's committed to. Just

11:22

to say, this is just the

11:24

translation of what he just said. So

11:26

people aren't thinking they're missing anything. So

11:29

they should just let him go. They

11:35

should let him go. We

11:38

will find a way to get

11:40

him from San Salvador to Maryland,

11:42

the state of Maryland. All

11:46

right, so let's just pause it

11:48

here. There was another

11:50

part of that press conference, I

11:52

believe, or maybe he had

11:54

said it at another point, where

11:56

Van Hollen revealed that El

11:58

Salvador's vice president told him that

12:01

they are keeping Kilmar -Abrego Garcia

12:03

locked up. Because the United

12:05

States is paying the government of

12:07

El Salvador to do so,

12:09

which is something that is a

12:11

really key piece of evidence

12:13

in this case. Because once again,

12:16

this undercuts the government's argument that they

12:18

have no control over this. Here

12:20

is this part. Thanks Matt for

12:22

finding it. Some

12:25

of them have severe disabilities. I

12:28

promise them that

12:30

I would do everything

12:33

I could. to

12:36

get him out of

12:38

SICOT. And

12:43

I won't stop trying and

12:45

I can assure the President, the

12:47

Vice President, that I may

12:49

be the first United States Senator

12:51

to visit El Salvador on

12:54

this issue, but there will be

12:56

more and there will be

12:58

more members of Congress coming. That's

13:01

him at the reference in the

13:04

vice president. Gotcha, right. Yeah, so

13:06

they did have that conversation and

13:08

It's just making it more and

13:10

more clear that these folks are

13:12

lying and trying to give both

13:14

the United States course the run

13:16

around and the Family of Camarabrigo

13:18

Garcia the run around and we

13:21

don't know what happened to him

13:23

We are in worst -case scenario

13:25

territory here. And of course, it's

13:27

not just him There are

13:29

hundreds of other people and a

13:31

overwhelming majority of these folks

13:33

have not been convicted or charged

13:35

with a serious crime or

13:38

a crime at all. Many of

13:40

them just have civil violations. And

13:42

even if they all had

13:44

charges against them, that does

13:46

not. allow for the

13:49

government to deport them without due

13:51

process, without the evidence being presented

13:53

in court. That is why we

13:55

have a system, a legal system

13:57

in this country, that Trump is

13:59

testing the bounds of as we

14:01

speak in a very perilous manner. Um...

14:04

Yeah, it's important to underline what

14:06

you say. It's not just Kilmauer or

14:08

Braygo Garcia, or even the names

14:10

of other people you've seen profiled. There

14:12

are people who have been detained

14:14

who aren't... don't want their identities publicized

14:16

because they fear... Obviously retribution within

14:18

CCOT. If people have

14:20

not seen yet the images out

14:22

of those prisons, we

14:24

didn't really show them because

14:26

they also serve, I think,

14:28

propaganda for the government of

14:30

El Salvador and for the

14:32

Trump administration as fascist propaganda

14:34

showing how cruel and inhumane

14:36

the conditions are. But

14:38

you see that it looks like

14:40

a Nazi concentration camp. I mean, their

14:43

heads are shaved. The men are

14:45

packed in together like sardines. They

14:47

sleep on these towering

14:49

steel bunk beds close

14:51

right next to one

14:53

another, no blankets, no

14:55

pillows. They're not allowed to

14:57

speak. The lights are on all day.

15:00

They can't go outside. They can't speak to

15:02

a lawyer. They can't speak to loved ones

15:04

and family members. And there's

15:06

real deep concern

15:08

that many of these

15:10

folks may be

15:13

dead. because there have been

15:15

hundreds of deaths at Seacot since it opened

15:17

at the start of 2023. And

15:19

the level of

15:22

obfuscation by this administration

15:24

can't just... It

15:26

just... They're not rehabilitating

15:28

people. Yeah, well, they're...

15:31

What are they gonna do? They're torturing them. It's

15:33

a torture dungeon. That's what it is. That's

15:36

what it is. Just by looking at the conditions, you

15:38

can tell it's a torture dungeon. The

15:41

work the best case scenario that

15:43

we're at right now is that

15:45

the administration is defying this because

15:47

they see any capitulation as weakness

15:49

and that these men that are

15:51

housed there are still in prison

15:53

there that are still alive but

15:55

We have to be begin wondering

15:57

about that second scenario because it's

15:59

becoming more and more likely the

16:01

longer this goes on With that

16:03

said a word from one of

16:05

our sponsors, and then we'll be

16:07

talking to Naomi Klein Quick

16:09

break, and then we'll be joined by

16:11

Naomi Klein. We

16:32

are back and we are joined

16:34

now by Naomi Klein, New York Times

16:36

best -selling author of nine critically acclaimed

16:38

books, Professor of Climate Justice at

16:41

the University of British Columbia. Her latest

16:43

piece in The Guardian is co -authored

16:45

with Astra Taylor and called The

16:47

Rise of End Times Fascism. Naomi, thanks

16:49

so much for coming on the

16:51

show today. Well, it's great to see you

16:53

again, Emma. Great to see you. Obviously,

16:56

your work is so

16:59

important to understanding

17:01

just... century progressive politics

17:03

and activism and what late -stage capitalism

17:05

really looks like and I've been

17:07

getting a lot of texts from

17:09

friends saying well what book should

17:12

I be reading right now to

17:14

kind of grapple with the Trump

17:16

administration and I've been encouraging folks

17:18

to read the shock doctrine because

17:21

Like, we're not far off from that

17:23

book being, you know, it's almost 20

17:25

years old. And it occurs

17:27

to me that we're seeing

17:29

this evolved form of the disaster

17:31

capitalist project, the shock doctrine. The

17:34

Trump administration is seemingly

17:36

openly creating shocks and

17:39

vulnerabilities to exploit them,

17:41

not just exploiting shocks

17:43

as they happen. What's

17:45

been your assessment of

17:48

that? Sure

17:51

um and it's been I mean

17:53

that that book is certainly having

17:55

a revival and I'm hearing about

17:57

it all the time and and

17:59

you know it's always gratifying when

18:01

a book can have a life

18:03

like that but honestly I'd rather

18:05

it be another book than this

18:07

particular book I'd love for the

18:09

shock doctrine to go out of

18:11

print and no longer be relevant

18:13

but I think because

18:15

the book describes a particular

18:18

strategy that is very popular

18:20

for the right globally, which

18:22

is trying to throw so

18:24

much at the public in

18:26

a time of crisis that

18:28

our minds get scrambled. We

18:30

lose our narrative. We're creatures

18:32

of narrative. sort of told

18:34

that like nothing we knew

18:36

before this moment even applies.

18:38

There's often a kind of

18:41

a an urge to sort

18:43

of blank the slate. And

18:46

so I think just knowing that this

18:48

is a strategy and understanding the strategy

18:50

helps drain it of its effectiveness, right?

18:52

So I think that the shock doctrine

18:54

is still useful in that way. I

18:57

also do want to say, you know, I

18:59

know we'll get to this because I think

19:01

there are ways that this follows a familiar

19:03

script and there are ways that the script

19:06

is different and our reality is different. And

19:08

I think there are always dangers of only

19:10

looking to past precedent. to understand

19:12

our reality like only looking to

19:14

to history and imagining that the

19:16

present is just a repeat of

19:18

the past and The danger of

19:20

in that is that we don't

19:22

see what's new, right? So I

19:25

think that we are seeing a

19:27

combination of of tactics we've seen

19:29

before in the United States, but

19:31

also around the world, often pushed

19:33

by the US government, and

19:35

its various arms, and it's

19:37

really now coming home. But

19:39

we're also seeing things that

19:42

we haven't seen before because of

19:44

the cumulative effect of the

19:46

successful deployment of this particular strategy,

19:48

which is why the piece

19:50

with Astra is called End Times

19:52

Fascism, which is different than

19:54

forms of fascism that we've seen

19:56

before. So I hope we

19:58

can talk about what's different as

20:00

well as the same But

20:02

what's the same is when I

20:04

see, for instance, Elon's Doge

20:06

Boys running rampant and just decimating

20:08

the US government, creating

20:10

markets for

20:12

Musk's own products.

20:16

They're talking about an AI first strategy

20:18

for the federal government, basically replacing

20:20

many of those federal workers with bots

20:22

if they're replaced at all. I

20:25

think that they should be

20:27

seen in this lineage of wholly

20:29

unqualified young men who have

20:31

run roughshod over governments, often in

20:33

the aftermath of coup d 'etat.

20:35

I've talked about the Doge

20:37

boys as being part of a

20:39

lineage of the Chicago boys

20:41

in Pinochet's Chile, or the Harvard

20:44

boys in Russia after the

20:46

collapse of the Soviet Union, or

20:48

what are called the Berkeley

20:50

mafia in Indonesia. after

20:53

a coup d 'etat there. So there's

20:55

often been this one -two strategy of first

20:57

comes the shock, and

20:59

then sort of in

21:01

the wreckage of the

21:04

shock comes the rapid

21:06

fire privatization, deregulation, government

21:08

austerity. So I think that there are

21:10

those commonalities, but they're really going for

21:12

the absolute heart of the government now. And

21:15

so there's old and there's

21:17

new. And you

21:20

can see how he's almost

21:22

exploiting the results of

21:24

a culmination of shocks, which

21:26

include, you

21:28

can go back to the

21:30

war on terror and

21:32

trace what the administration is

21:34

doing, which is the

21:36

expansion of the surveillance state

21:38

under the war on

21:40

terror, the collapse also of

21:42

the economy and how

21:44

after the great recession, wealth

21:47

just continued to be concentrated. Also

21:49

after COVID, the wealthy got

21:51

richer at the end of that.

21:53

And there was a mass

21:55

exploitation via greedflation where there were

21:57

naturally occurring bottlenecks and inflation

21:59

due to COVID. And then when

22:01

that eased and subsided, well,

22:03

prices still kept going up and

22:06

you saw record profits for

22:08

folks at the very top. And

22:10

so like that culmination

22:12

has created this

22:15

this baseline kind of

22:17

almost nihilism or level of

22:19

anxiety that It feels

22:21

like Donald Trump is kind

22:23

of perfect for that

22:25

moment of reality because he's

22:27

a president that almost

22:29

transcends truth and reality and

22:31

is very much somebody

22:33

who makes his own reality

22:35

by lying the entire

22:37

time. And it's like, it's

22:39

an escape hatch to

22:41

the dystopia that we're living

22:43

in, even as he

22:45

exacerbates it. Yeah,

22:48

there's definitely a lot

22:50

going on. And

22:53

one thing I would clarify is

22:55

that in the instances that I was

22:57

talking about before, like in these

22:59

earlier instances where you've

23:01

had an exploitation

23:03

of a political shock.

23:07

And here I think it's worth mentioning that while

23:09

it's true that Trump is creating the shocks

23:11

that he's also exploiting, right? That

23:13

also was the case in

23:16

Chile in the sense that the

23:18

Chicago boys' economic policies backfired

23:20

massively under Pinochet. And even though

23:22

it was done in the

23:24

name of reducing inflation, it actually

23:26

led to inflation spiraling.

23:29

And then there were the bailouts, right?

23:31

I mean, because this is the thing

23:33

is that they win either way. And

23:36

I think this is what's important. And

23:38

I think a lot of people do

23:40

understand this about Trump's economic team is

23:42

that you've got people who are very

23:44

skilled at profiting from both a market

23:46

upturn and a market crash, right? Especially

23:48

if they have their hands on the

23:50

levers that allow for the bailouts. If

23:53

it's needed so they're not worried

23:55

about the consequences of their economic

23:57

wreckage Particularly, but I do think

23:59

that you know he did have

24:01

to draw back from some of

24:03

the tariffs just because I think

24:06

partly he hadn't reckoned with the

24:08

and this is what I mean

24:10

about history being cumulative right like

24:12

because we are you know 50

24:14

years into the neoliberal project the

24:16

the the economy is much more

24:18

financialized than that than it was

24:20

you know when there was the

24:22

Nixon shock, for instance. So

24:26

some things stay the same and some

24:28

things change. But

24:30

you're talking about the nihilism at the heart of this

24:32

project, and that's really what I've been grappling with. And

24:34

I think a lot of us have been, where we're

24:36

like, watching this, and we're like, OK, don't

24:38

you also have to breathe air and drink water? OK,

24:43

maybe you can send your kids to private schools.

24:45

You're not worried about what happens to public schools. these

24:48

folks are all grifters and they

24:50

see all kinds of market opportunities in

24:52

education. I think it's really important

24:54

to understand that, not just in the

24:56

sort of for -profit university or like

24:58

Jordan Peterson seminar racket, which is

25:00

very real, but

25:02

also just the AI, the

25:04

idea that AI should be teaching

25:06

our kids that a lot

25:08

of the work of education in

25:11

K through 12 and post -secondary

25:13

can just be done through

25:15

AI. And by the way, This

25:17

is a bipartisan project. And just

25:19

if I could just add a little

25:22

factor, which I think is important

25:24

for us to remember as we're bombarded

25:26

with information, there was a

25:28

similar kind of AI push

25:30

in the early days of COVID,

25:32

where a lot of these

25:34

big tech companies, and this was

25:36

really being spearheaded by Eric

25:38

Schmidt, a formerly CEO of Google,

25:40

saying, okay, well, in the

25:42

name of the pandemic, and keeping

25:44

us safe from this virus,

25:46

We're going to have this build

25:48

back better, which is really

25:50

going to digitize everything. And it

25:52

was also couched much as

25:54

we are in this moment of

25:56

China is out AIing us. They

25:59

use more telehealth. They

26:01

have more smart, quote unquote, smart

26:03

cities, which are cities where you have

26:05

AI embedded in absolutely everything. So

26:08

Eric Schmidt went on a

26:10

major lobbying campaign to sort

26:12

of rebrand COVID. recovery

26:14

as this major, major push

26:17

for AI everything in schools,

26:19

in healthcare, in cities. And

26:21

the person who took him up

26:23

on this was Cuomo as governor.

26:25

He put him in charge. I

26:27

mean, he was incredibly excited about

26:29

this. So this is not just

26:31

a Republican move. And as

26:33

we know, there are a lot

26:35

of powerful corporate dens who have

26:37

very deep ties to many of

26:39

these Silicon Valley figures who have

26:41

been pushing for exactly this. It

26:43

turns out that it's not Cuomo,

26:45

but Trump who is opening up

26:47

all of the doors for their

26:49

wildest dreams. So

26:52

AI, in addition to

26:54

all the things that we should worry about AI,

26:57

in terms of its impacts

26:59

on jobs, in terms of

27:01

its impacts, even in the

27:03

dystopian sort of AI singularity

27:05

nightmares that we hear about, as

27:09

somebody who's been engaged in the

27:11

climate struggle for a long time,

27:13

what worries me most Immediately about

27:15

AI is that this is really

27:17

a vampiric technology right in the

27:19

sense that like I mean a

27:21

vampire technology and that it builds

27:23

this Mirror world of our world

27:25

by draining our world of what

27:27

we need to live right like

27:29

of water of of energy of

27:31

a habitable climate because it Devours

27:33

energy on such a huge scale.

27:36

So this is another way that

27:38

This Trump agenda is really at

27:40

war with just life on earth

27:42

You know, it's it you have

27:44

this deregulation of you know health

27:46

and human services and environmental regulations

27:48

And by the way, we have

27:51

not even seen the start of

27:53

it They've got all kinds of

27:55

big plans apparently for Earth Day

27:57

where they're gonna a net you

27:59

really really declare war on the

28:01

whole NGO NGO sector But then

28:03

you have AI which is really

28:05

the massive environmental threat because you've

28:07

got Schmidt before Congress saying well,

28:09

we're gonna We need to triple

28:11

our energy use in order to

28:13

meet our AI needs and keep

28:16

up with China. It's basically this

28:18

new Cold War discourse. So

28:20

that's why I think the moment we're

28:22

in is really different because it's just simpler

28:24

in the sense it's just so clear. It's

28:27

a life or death choice. Are we

28:29

on the side of life? Are we

28:31

on the side of an animate world

28:33

with humans and other life forms? Or

28:35

are we throwing in with the machines?

28:38

And I actually think, you know, I'm smiling

28:40

because I actually think that this is, like, maybe

28:43

our best hope of building a broad -based

28:45

coalition. It's clarifying. It's clarifying. And it's also,

28:47

I have to tell you, sorry I'm talking

28:49

so long, but like, you know, last

28:51

time I talked to you, I just published

28:53

doppelganger. And as you know, I listened to

28:56

way too much Steve Bannon to write that

28:58

book. And, know, I'm

29:00

really struck by the fact that, you know, Bannon

29:02

as the kind of the voice of the MAGA

29:04

base. really latched on to this

29:07

idea that like big tech is waging

29:09

war on you. You can't trust big tech.

29:11

You know, it's a war on the

29:13

human. He was using all this discourse. So

29:15

a lot of people who voted for

29:17

Trump thought they were voting against the big

29:19

tech anti -human agenda. And it's

29:21

just one of the many ways

29:23

that Trump is betraying them. It's

29:26

not just the price of eggs.

29:28

And I think that this

29:30

piece of it has the best

29:32

potential appealing away a significant portion. of

29:35

the Trump base, not everyone, and we

29:37

don't want everyone, but some of them.

29:41

And, you know, here I don't want to, you know, I

29:43

don't think we should give much

29:45

credence to the idea that Bannon himself

29:47

is serious in taking on Silicon

29:50

Valley. I think he's absolutely talking out

29:52

of both sides of his mouth,

29:54

but it's telling that he feels he

29:56

needs to put on this show

29:58

for his base of sort of, you

30:00

know, taking on the tech oligarchs

30:02

and so on. Well, because as you

30:05

write in this excellent piece in

30:07

The Guardian, The Rise of End Times

30:09

Fascism, I've been speaking about Trump

30:11

as the privatization president, but your thoughts

30:13

on this are more evolved in

30:15

that it is the end times, almost

30:17

enclosure presidency. And that

30:20

works very neatly with the

30:22

tech oligarch project. And you

30:24

rightly point out that the

30:26

infrastructure for their mass accumulation

30:28

of wealth was frankly the

30:30

result of the democrats embracing

30:32

the tech pros especially under

30:34

the obama administration and these

30:36

are the monsters they they've

30:38

created much like the democrats

30:41

have created this monster of

30:43

uh... authoritarianism cracking down on

30:45

political speech of protesters against

30:47

genocide right and so uh...

30:49

these are lessons that we

30:51

should be learning but This

30:53

whole concept of the network

30:55

states, I'm sure you've read

30:57

a lot of Gildaran and

30:59

what he's reported on about

31:02

how this religion with these

31:04

tech billionaires, could you

31:06

expand on that a

31:08

little bit and how the

31:10

network state, the private

31:12

city, the bunker

31:14

for the rich is,

31:17

in effect, this

31:19

agenda But they're selling it

31:21

in different ways before the public

31:23

can catch up. Yeah, absolutely. And

31:25

Gilda Randston, terrific reporting on this.

31:27

I've been following it for a

31:29

really long time because this is

31:31

the sort of logical extension of

31:33

Milton Friedman's libertarianism that was sort

31:35

of at the heart of the

31:37

shock doctrine, right? Like this extreme

31:39

idea that you know, government is

31:41

always the problem and that it's

31:44

tyranny to have a functioning government

31:46

and really all you need from

31:48

the state in Friedman's view is,

31:50

you know, protection for property rights,

31:52

you know, and policing. But

31:55

interestingly, his grandson, Patrick Friedman,

31:57

has taken this even further

31:59

and Patrick Friedman is really

32:01

at the heart of this

32:03

hyper -libertarian idea that is

32:06

sometimes talked called the network

32:08

society. But it's really this

32:10

idea of, well, why don't

32:12

we live in countries at

32:14

all? Why can't we start

32:17

our own countries where we'll

32:19

be absolutely free to make

32:21

our own rules, pay

32:23

the level of tax that we

32:25

decide? Why should we listen to

32:28

anyone? Basically, it's like a temper

32:30

tantrum, like you are not the

32:32

boss of me, right? And let

32:34

me just interject for a sec

32:36

just to say how contrary that

32:38

is to Steve Bannon's almost fetishization

32:40

and romanticization of the state. Yeah,

32:43

and I want to come to

32:45

that because once again, I think

32:47

we can make a mistake in

32:49

overplaying the extent to which those

32:51

visions are actually in conflict. There

32:53

are ways of resolving them, and

32:55

I think it's important for us

32:57

to understand how they can be

33:00

resolved and are being resolved analytically

33:02

on Steve Bannon's war room in

33:04

real time. Because

33:06

I think but but at the

33:08

same time like I said before there

33:10

are ways that that there is

33:12

a fissure that can be exploited if

33:14

we do it right So this

33:16

network society idea it's it's been around

33:18

for a long time I wrote

33:20

about it in you know in my

33:22

in my book on fire where

33:24

it was a where I was looking

33:26

at this I idea of how

33:28

was intersecting with a with a Preparism

33:30

like a Preparism for the super

33:32

risk. So originally the idea was okay.

33:34

We want our own countries Just

33:36

so that we can do whatever we

33:38

want, right? But then it was

33:40

like well, what about climate change? So

33:42

if you look at there if

33:44

you if you look at the plans

33:46

there was this idea of seasteading

33:48

Peter teal is always involved whatever it

33:50

is Peter teal is giving it

33:52

some money So there's there's the seasteading

33:54

idea and that didn't really go

33:56

very far, but it was the idea

33:58

that You could start your own

34:00

countries in international waters on floating oil

34:02

rates and you could quote unquote

34:05

vote with your boat So if if

34:07

one night, you know floating nation

34:09

had better rules than the other one

34:11

for your business people are freaks

34:13

Incidentally, yeah, so then it turned out

34:15

Actually, most rich people didn't want

34:17

to live on floating oil rigs. So

34:19

they came up with another idea,

34:21

which is this thing called Prospero, which

34:23

is in an island in Honduras, which

34:25

is currently being challenged in court, where

34:27

they're pretending they have their own little country,

34:29

their own little island state. And

34:32

basically, it's a glorified med

34:35

spa. Patrick Friedman, once

34:37

again, grandson of Milton Friedman, got

34:39

his Tesla key embedded in his

34:41

hand. So the idea

34:43

is like, okay, it combines

34:45

all of these niche Silicon

34:47

Valley fetishes around biohacking, so

34:49

they're upgrading their bodies for

34:51

the future. But then a

34:53

lot of these projects are

34:55

foreseeing a future of collapse.

34:58

That's the subtext of all

35:00

of this, is things are

35:02

going down. And the

35:04

going down may be about Viruses

35:06

it may be about climate impacts,

35:08

which is you know when argument

35:10

for a floating nation, right? You

35:12

don't have to worry about sea

35:14

level rise. You just keep rising

35:16

with the seas And you know

35:18

all of its solar powered renewable

35:20

powered and so on so I

35:22

think two forces have really converged

35:24

one is this idea of wanting

35:26

total freedom for capitalism and no

35:28

state whatsoever and the other is

35:31

this idea of things are going

35:33

to get really bad and we

35:35

need our private escape hatches, right?

35:37

So this is where, I

35:39

know you mentioned the war on terror. You

35:42

know, I think about the wave of privatization

35:44

of the U .S. military, the

35:46

U .S. surveillance state,

35:48

and players like Blackwater and Eric

35:50

Prince. I mean, they're all

35:52

swirling around this, right? The idea

35:54

is that you have your

35:56

own private armies. One of the

35:58

reasons they like AI so much is because

36:00

it sort of solves the problem of who's

36:02

going to serve you and tend to you

36:05

in your little private states. But the real

36:07

dream world is the Gulf states, honestly. They

36:10

want to have luxury lives

36:12

serviced by a combination of

36:14

machines and indentured servants who

36:16

have absolutely no rights, who

36:18

are migrant workers with absolutely

36:20

no rights. So that's their

36:22

dream world. And you would

36:24

think that it is highly

36:26

I mean I think the thing

36:29

that for us to understand is

36:31

that it foresees collapse and it

36:33

foresees collapse and it's being dreamed

36:35

by the very people who are

36:37

accelerating the collapse in the ways

36:39

that we've already talked about including

36:41

by going all in on AI

36:43

which is an absolute energy hog

36:45

and water hog and you know

36:47

is draining our real physical world

36:49

so they're saying collapse is inevitable

36:51

and oh by the way we're

36:53

accelerating it as we prep for

36:55

it and Then you have Donald

36:57

Trump saying you know Positioning himself

37:00

as this hyper nationalist make America

37:02

great again, and you have the

37:04

maga base Who identify themselves primarily

37:06

as nationalists? But their vision of

37:08

nationalism is also the nation -state

37:10

as bunker and this is where

37:12

I think it's really important for

37:14

us to understand Even if they

37:16

claim to deny climate change to

37:18

not think it's real I don't

37:20

think that we can understand what's

37:22

happening on borders. What's happening with

37:24

offshore detention facilities, which Trump did

37:26

not invent You know, Australia was

37:28

doing it Italy was doing it

37:31

It's been going on for over

37:33

a decade now. This idea of

37:35

relatively wealthy countries offshoring migrants into

37:37

these sort of legal black holes.

37:39

It was happening on Nehru, in

37:41

the Pacific Islands, Manus, Christmas Island. Libya

37:46

was doing it for Europe

37:48

and now the Trump administration is

37:50

doing something similar. It's actually...

37:52

billed as a kind of an

37:54

economic development opportunity for countries

37:56

like El Salvador. So I don't

37:58

think we can understand Trump's

38:00

economic agenda without with or I

38:02

think it's helpful to I

38:05

think of them as super -sized

38:07

preppers in the sense that I

38:09

think all of this yeah

38:11

Well, exactly. I mean it your

38:13

it's occurring to me as

38:15

you're speaking It's like the the

38:17

per the protectionism is the

38:19

bunker state or like the just

38:21

like the the rapid on

38:23

shoring Without first years long of

38:25

domestic capacity being built up

38:27

that would justify the tariffs They

38:29

like they're putting the car

38:32

before the horse, but there's no

38:34

horse for lack of a

38:36

better phrase, but that the The

38:38

key point that you made

38:40

there about the overlap and we

38:42

should be really Careful not

38:44

to overstate the fissures on the

38:46

right because it's just so

38:48

different like right the Democrats frankly

38:50

aren't at the Republicans in

38:52

this movement they acknowledge that there

38:54

is like Doom on the

38:57

horizon and the Democrats talk about

38:59

things like and how we

39:01

should be maintaining our system which

39:03

is part of the reason

39:05

that the right now has this

39:07

salience that it shouldn't have

39:09

um... because they're at least acknowledging

39:11

that there's a level of

39:13

anxiety and there's a problem and

39:15

that our system is collapsing

39:17

but there is key overlap between

39:19

as you write the religious

39:21

end timers uh... the network state

39:24

but also christian and white

39:26

nationalist That piece that came

39:28

out in the Wall Street

39:30

Journal with Elon Musk talking about

39:32

his fears about the collapse

39:34

of Western civilization and that even

39:36

though the population is increasing, he's

39:39

concerned about population decreases. Well, what

39:41

is he referring to? He's referring

39:43

to Europe and the United States.

39:45

Okay, so like... Yeah,

39:47

the tech guys may be different

39:49

than the neocons, but they

39:51

still see life in the global

39:53

south as dispensable. And

39:56

it can justify the genocide

39:58

in Gaza. It can justify protectionist

40:00

policies and climate accelerationism that

40:02

doesn't take them into account, but

40:04

builds walls up here. It

40:06

in fact is actually the same thing.

40:09

It's just a different letter in front of

40:11

fascism or a different word in front

40:13

of fascism. Yeah,

40:15

I think that's really well said

40:17

Emma and you know, I

40:19

think it's it's the reason why

40:21

We ended up calling it

40:23

end times fascism And we played

40:26

with different different names is

40:28

because I think it gets at

40:30

the narrative structure of all

40:32

of these movements, right? And

40:34

it is the same narrative

40:36

structure as the rapture, right?

40:39

And not all Christians believe in

40:41

the rapture, by the way. It

40:43

is not clear that this is

40:45

actually biblical text, but this very

40:47

powerful interpretation of biblical texts that

40:50

there is going to be this, that

40:53

there's going to be the

40:55

return of the Messiah. There's

40:57

going to be this moment

40:59

when the righteous gets sucked

41:01

up to their golden city

41:04

in the sky and then

41:06

the final battle rages below

41:08

and everybody who has not

41:10

been selected for this elevator

41:12

ride is left to drown,

41:14

burn, whatever it is. I

41:16

mean it's the most violent

41:18

part of the Bible. But

41:22

the point is that for people who

41:24

believe in it, they're psyched. They're very psyched.

41:26

This is what they're working towards. And Freud

41:28

called it the desk drive. But I think

41:30

it's really important for us to understand that

41:32

whether you're religious or not, that

41:34

story, that apocalyptic story is

41:36

so deeply encoded in our

41:38

culture, right? No

41:41

matter what your faith is. I

41:43

mean, versions of it are in

41:45

every Hollywood disaster movie, right? It's

41:47

so deeply encoded on so many sci

41:49

-fi stories, right? So you have

41:51

this secular version of it and

41:53

you also have the simultaneous people who

41:55

seriously believe in it like apparently

41:57

Mike Huckabee Very dangerous that people

41:59

who actually believe in it in

42:01

charge of You know policies like

42:03

in Israel because Israel in this

42:05

story Israel is where it all goes

42:07

down and the you know the

42:09

return of the Israelites to this

42:11

land is the conditions under which

42:14

the messiah comes back. So you've

42:16

got all of these apocalyptic thinkers and

42:18

messianic thinkers, first of all, inside

42:20

the Netanyahu government, right, who desperately

42:22

want to destroy al -Aqsa and build

42:24

the third temple. I mean, they're

42:26

driving towards this story. So have

42:28

people who actually are religious fanatics

42:30

who believe it. And then you

42:32

have kind of the musts and

42:34

the teals who are sort of dabbling

42:36

with the religion and weirdly Peter

42:38

Teal has been talking more and

42:40

more about how he actually is

42:42

religious, never mind his like gay

42:44

party lifestyle, he thinks the antichrist

42:47

is here and it's granted to him. Perk,

42:49

I mean, it's just beyond the stuff that's

42:51

going on. Yeah. So, I mean,

42:53

there's a way like, you know, in doppelganger,

42:55

I quote Phillip Roth, the

42:57

kind of king of doppelgangers who said,

43:00

It's too ridiculous to take seriously

43:02

and too serious to be ridiculous

43:04

and I feel that way about

43:06

all of this I mean, it's

43:08

so ridiculous. No Elon Musk is

43:10

not going to upload his consciousness,

43:13

you know into the AI singularity

43:15

and Live in the ether on

43:17

Mars or whatever the story is

43:19

that he thinks is going to

43:21

protect him and his multiplying kin

43:23

from the fires that he is

43:25

helping to unleash but you

43:28

know, we have to take it

43:30

seriously because it has material effects on

43:32

all of our lives, right? And

43:34

that's why what we try to do

43:36

in the piece is say, okay,

43:38

well, what do all these people have

43:40

in common? You know, whether they

43:42

are actually religious extremists who believe the

43:44

end times are coming and they're

43:46

psyched about it, or whether there are

43:48

the billionaires who are bunkering down

43:50

and getting ready to do their exit,

43:52

or whether it's the fortress nation

43:54

crowd who are like, okay, which critical

43:56

minerals can we bring into our

43:59

Bunker nation state and which people can

44:01

we send to you know an

44:03

op like a deep dark dungeon somewhere

44:05

else with no absolutely no rights,

44:07

you know All of them are giving

44:09

up on the future. All of

44:11

them are within this apocalyptic narrative. They

44:13

they are You know treasonous really

44:15

I've never used the word treason before

44:17

we see humanity to humanity. Yeah,

44:19

yeah to this world not just humanity

44:21

like to to creation like to the

44:25

And I'm using that kind of language

44:27

deliberately because I actually think it's

44:29

very important that we understand that we're

44:31

not going to win this by

44:33

sort of snarkly going, I guess it

44:35

wasn't about the price of eggs. No,

44:37

it wasn't. It was not about

44:39

the price of eggs. They

44:41

are tapping into incredibly powerful

44:43

myths, right? They're giving

44:46

people a profound sense of

44:48

nihilistic purpose in their

44:50

lives. And I think that

44:52

while You know, I've made the argument

44:54

for the Green New Deal and

44:56

eco -populism and we need all of

44:58

that. Like we need to improve people's

45:00

material circumstances. We need to continue

45:02

to fight for universal health care, for

45:04

debt cancellation, for a living wage,

45:07

for heat pumps for all, for all

45:09

of that good stuff. But we

45:11

can't kid ourselves that we can beat

45:13

these sort of incredibly powerful myths

45:15

only with material offerings. And here I'm

45:17

drawing on work from Richard Seymour

45:19

who talks about this. in his really

45:21

great book, Disaster Nationalism, which touches

45:23

on a lot of these themes. We

45:26

really, we need our own myths. We

45:29

need our own sort of

45:31

transcendent stories. And I think

45:33

the left at its best has been able to

45:35

do that. And the offering that Astra and

45:37

I make in the pieces, these are people who

45:39

are who are treasonous to this world. And

45:41

we are the people who are faithful. We

45:44

are committed to staying. They're all

45:46

planning their exit strategies, whether it's in

45:48

Golden City, in the sky or

45:50

whether it's a floating oil rig, you

45:52

know, in the Atlantic. I mean,

45:54

they're out of here and we, like,

45:56

we need to really think about

45:58

that. Like, we need to think about

46:00

what we're willing to fight for

46:02

and who we're willing to fight for

46:04

and what it means to be

46:06

so completely uninterested, you know, in the,

46:08

you know, wonders of this world.

46:10

counter -narrative. Yeah. Yeah. A counter -narrative based

46:12

in humanism and that is We

46:14

have no leaders. We have very few

46:16

leaders right now who are advocating for that.

46:19

But look, I live on the West Coast, so

46:21

I'm not only worried about the humans, I'm worried

46:23

about the salmon and the orcas and like, you

46:25

know, I think you get witchy with this shit.

46:27

A wild life. Yeah, I

46:29

should expand. All of life, you know?

46:32

Yes, all of life. Astro is saying,

46:34

and this is her line in the

46:36

piece, like Elon Musk wants humanity to

46:38

eke out a living on two dead

46:40

orbs, you know, the Earth and Mars. And

46:43

we have all of this

46:45

beauty and wonder and life.

46:48

Abundance? Diversity. Hey, abundance. Tell

46:50

us we're fine. Well,

46:54

Naomi, thanks so much for your time today.

46:56

It's always wonderful to get your perspective. People

46:58

can read the piece. It's called The Rise

47:01

of End Times Fascism in the Guardian, co -authored

47:03

with Astro Taylor. Thanks so much. Really appreciate

47:05

your time today. Great to talk to you.

47:07

Take care. Great to talk to you. All

47:09

right, folks, quick break. And

47:11

we actually have our guest in

47:13

studio, Mark Allen Derry. Be

47:15

right back. We

47:59

are back, and I'm thrilled

48:01

to have Dr. Mark Allen

48:03

Derry, Infectious Disease Physician, Chief Innovation

48:05

Officer and Medical Director for

48:08

Infectious Diseases at Access Health, Louisiana,

48:10

also the creator of the podcast Noise

48:12

Filter, also the co -founder of WHIV

48:14

Community Radio down in New Orleans.

48:16

Mark Allen, thanks so much for coming

48:19

on the show today. Thank you

48:21

so much. It's a pleasure to be

48:23

here. You are in Sam's chair.

48:25

How's the feel? Weird. You

48:27

know, I can smell the microphone. and it's

48:29

like i'm getting a little too close to

48:31

it so i'm gonna just pull away the

48:34

smell of the one hard -boiled egg he

48:36

eats every morning although i usually eat yeah

48:38

and liquid i'd be and then maybe it'd

48:40

be occasional coffee uh... mark it's great to

48:42

have you on you were on democracy now

48:44

this morning i was not we were just

48:46

visiting the studio just visiting oh well yeah

48:48

yeah were just visiting that studio the studio

48:50

is nicer yeah well this one of course

48:53

oh yeah yeah i was uh... i was

48:55

expecting a tiny studio when i walked in

48:57

but i can't believe how big and grand

48:59

it is certainly the marble pillars. Really

49:02

lovely. That toilet that

49:04

barely works. Anyway, well,

49:07

let's just start here. You

49:09

were listening to a little of

49:11

my conversation with Naomi Klein. You

49:13

were saying some stuff struck you

49:15

like from an infectious disease perspective,

49:17

this level of Nihilism and

49:19

science denial has got to be just

49:22

one of the most depressing elements of your

49:24

job right now. Yeah, you know, it

49:26

started, you know, think back to like

49:28

in the 80s with HIV, right? There was

49:30

a huge denial of HIV. The

49:32

government and Reagan would not even acknowledge

49:34

HIV until eight years. So roughly was that

49:36

1987, 1988 was the first time that

49:38

Reagan even actually acknowledged HIV. As a result

49:40

of that, and then the death of

49:43

a young man named Ryan White, who is

49:45

a hemophiliac with somebody that the Kind

49:47

of the white you know is this was

49:49

not a person who had it you

49:51

know who is gay or you know or

49:53

was from Haiti or who was not

49:55

a heroin user. They were hemophiliac and it

49:57

was like at that time the good

49:59

society could get around somebody with HIV with

50:01

hemophilia. This was a 15

50:03

year old boy named Ryan White and

50:05

he died soon after and so what happened

50:08

was that there was this collective guilt.

50:10

that the government had and so they created

50:12

these amazing programs for HIV. The

50:14

reason why we don't talk about HIV

50:16

anymore now is because of that programming and

50:18

they funded a ton of money into

50:20

it. These Ryan White, and I have two

50:22

Ryan White clinics. I've run Ryan White

50:24

clinics in New Orleans. Of course, USAID had

50:26

PEPFAR in which Bush was able to

50:28

get out into Africa and save something like

50:30

20 million lives. It's very, when you

50:33

put money to a problem, you could actually

50:35

get things done. So now flash forward

50:37

to COVID and I was so confused know

50:39

what to do. The public health is

50:41

fairly straightforward. But the fact that

50:43

they were doing nothing initially with COVID,

50:45

it became clear to me that the

50:47

plan was no plan. And that

50:49

was the destruction that we saw.

50:51

We ended up with a million

50:53

cases of mortality deaths as a

50:55

result of just not doing anything

50:57

or not putting our best foot

50:59

forward. And I was so confused.

51:02

How is it that we are allowing people

51:04

to die like this? All right, so we

51:06

had four years of Biden, but now we're

51:08

back in this situation where we are now.

51:10

And it's becoming clear to me, and it

51:12

was exactly what Naomi Klein was talking about,

51:14

and I was telling you off air, it

51:17

was an epiphany for me when she was

51:19

talking about societal collapse. And when she said

51:21

that, and then of course afterwards she said

51:23

viral. You know, it could be, she said

51:25

it could be tech or financial, I forget

51:27

what she said, but then she said viral,

51:29

and as soon as she said that, I

51:31

was like, oh. That makes sense to me.

51:33

That crystallizes everything that we've been seeing right

51:35

now because why are we seeing RFK making

51:37

these choices? Why we're seeing this huge measles

51:39

outbreak? If I were in RFK's shoes right

51:41

now, I would be down in Texas every

51:43

day. I'd be in New Mexico every day.

51:45

I'd be in these health clinics. I would

51:47

be propping up these physicians. I'd be showing

51:49

kids being vaccinated. I would be doing these

51:52

PR moves because the only thing that prevents

51:54

measles is a vaccine. It's not these other

51:56

things that he's talking about. And so We're

51:58

not seeing that and if we're

52:00

not seeing that and if we're seeing

52:02

like the closure of the infectious

52:04

diseases the federal like it within the

52:06

NIH their National Institutes of Health

52:08

They just recently closed down the infectious

52:10

diseases and the HIV section. Why

52:13

would they do that? I mean, well,

52:15

he's basically saying he said now

52:17

publicly that he does not believe that

52:19

AIDS is caused by HIV Which

52:21

is like which is again for somebody

52:23

like myself. That's just mind mind -blowing,

52:25

but absolutely. I mean, can you

52:27

explain? why that's such a dangerous position

52:29

to take. I mean, he knows

52:31

better as somebody at his age, and

52:33

like, he's just recirculating some of

52:35

the conspiracy theories that were heard in

52:37

the 80s. And he's blaming even

52:39

gay lifestyle, which is a very thinly

52:41

veiled homophobic attack. I would say

52:43

thickly veiled, but yes. It's

52:46

homophobia is what that is.

52:48

No, it's the dissemination of misinformation.

52:51

I mean, I think Mark Twain once

52:53

said that a lie circulates around the

52:55

world six times faster before... can get

52:57

up and put on its pants. The

52:59

disinformation is so sexy right now and

53:01

it has always been sexy and it's more

53:03

sexy than real information. If you go

53:05

online and look at something, you

53:08

know, it has a very, you

53:10

know, scientific title and maybe when you

53:12

click on it's behind a paywall

53:14

because it's part of a academic journal

53:16

or whatever, whereas disinformation is so

53:18

easily circulated. This idea that AIDS is

53:20

not caused by HIV, that's

53:22

not something that was settled in the

53:24

early 80s. My father was an early

53:26

HIV physician and that was settled then.

53:28

I mean, the idea of

53:31

that is just, you know,

53:33

again, it perpetuates misinformation and like

53:35

you said, thinly veiled homophobia. attractive

53:39

to people. Is it the idea that

53:41

they have agency over a narrative or

53:43

is it they get a counter narrative

53:45

because they have resentment towards like an

53:47

academic elitism that it shows broadly that

53:49

these people don't really know what they're talking

53:52

about? I think it's both but I

53:54

think it's more the first that you

53:56

said. I think that right now just

53:58

medicine interacting with healthcare, interacting, I mean a

54:00

lot of people don't have physicians, don't

54:02

have doctors, don't have insurance, right? And so

54:04

just even interacting with healthcare is so

54:06

difficult. Especially for more vulnerable communities. So

54:08

having agency over your own sense of

54:10

what is real versus what is not real.

54:12

And that's what I think it is.

54:14

And I'm still trying to flesh that

54:16

out in my mind right now. But

54:19

I largely think it's largely because you can't

54:21

get up, you can't go a doctor.

54:23

They say the US has great medical

54:25

treatments and we're excellent. And we are.

54:27

We are. We're going to lose that status

54:29

fairly soon with all the cuts that

54:31

we are seeing. But there's no question

54:33

about it that not everybody has access

54:35

to that. This is something that this show

54:37

that's something that's talked about all the

54:40

time. So I think that it's easy

54:42

for people to believe in this misinformation.

54:44

This idea, just this morning, a colleague of

54:46

mine, as we did a segment on

54:48

autism, not just on noise filter, we had

54:50

to restart noise filter as a YouTube

54:52

show and as a podcast because the

54:54

NIH and the CDC are no longer

54:56

able to speak freely anymore, right? And as

54:58

a result of that, Eric, my colleague,

55:00

Doc Griggs, who's my partner who we

55:02

do the animations with as well, did

55:04

a segment on local news this morning on

55:07

this new autism, which we could pivot

55:09

to in a second. This the reason

55:11

why autism is in the news right

55:13

now. And he just sent me an email

55:15

of somebody yelling at him just in

55:17

the email, kind of all cap sort

55:19

of thing about this is, this is

55:21

garbage. How dare you kind of

55:23

perpetuate this sort of garbage? And we

55:25

know what this is due to. And

55:27

he was implying that it was due

55:29

to the vaccines, but it's not. But

55:31

that, that virus, and I'm using that

55:33

word intentionally, that virus of misinformation is

55:35

so deeply rooted in our society. that

55:37

it's starting to, I think we're starting

55:39

to crack. And I think it was

55:41

exactly like what you and Naomi were

55:43

talking about. I think it's now being

55:45

used as a tool for collapse. An

55:47

accelerant. Yes, an accelerant. Level

55:52

like just to return really quickly

55:54

to the measles part of this He's

55:56

he's burying RFK junior in his

55:58

press releases. Oh, you should get vaccinated

56:00

if you haven't already There have

56:02

been three deaths so far two in

56:04

Texas one in New Mexico two

56:06

or children one as an adult all

56:08

three are unvaccinated. If you could

56:10

just reiterate for our audience the efficacy

56:12

of the measles vaccine and why

56:14

it's so difficult to put the toothpaste

56:16

back in the tube at this

56:18

point. Yeah, I mean, so the measles

56:20

vaccine we know is a very,

56:22

very safe vaccine. It's been utilized for

56:24

decades, right? At one point, the

56:26

U .S. actually was, we were free

56:28

of measles in 2000, right? And so

56:30

this is one dose of the

56:32

vaccine that's given at about 12 months

56:34

of age, protects you about 93%.

56:36

and at around five years old before

56:38

a child starts first or kindergarten

56:40

or first grade, they get a second

56:42

dose and that gets you up

56:44

to 97%. so -called

56:47

herd immunity or community immunity,

56:49

you need 93 to

56:51

95 percent of a community

56:53

to be vaccinated for

56:55

MMR for the measles. When

56:57

that goes down, when, you know, I

56:59

think this Mennonite community has very, very low

57:01

rates, and I think the community in

57:03

Texas where it actually started had an immunity

57:05

rate of about 80 percent. I'm not

57:07

100 percent sure about that, but that number

57:09

seems to stick in my mind. I

57:11

believe you're right. That

57:14

virus is gonna find you as of this morning.

57:16

I think I read 750

57:18

cases, I think right now in 25

57:20

states. Even if you're vaccinated. No, no,

57:22

no, no. These are unvaccinated. Okay,

57:24

okay. These are unvaccinated. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Let's

57:26

be very clear. Yes. If you're vaccinated,

57:28

even if you got your vaccines as a

57:30

child, you're very well protected right now.

57:32

There's some caveats there, immunosuppression. I

57:34

have an immunosuppressive disease. The

57:37

hospital I work at, they checked

57:39

me. My antibody titers, that's the antibodies,

57:41

were low and they just gave me

57:43

a booster vaccine. So for those individuals

57:45

who do have immunodeficient diseases. Just

57:47

go to a doctor and if you

57:49

don't have one you know I am

57:51

happy to help you kind of walk

57:53

you through this and I read the

57:55

comments if you want to leave your

57:58

info there but anyway if you want

58:00

to get in touch I can help

58:02

you figure out if you do need

58:04

it but I think it's important for

58:06

us to recognize especially now during this

58:08

epidemic that we do need to protect

58:10

ourselves because the people who we usually

58:13

rely on and this is getting back

58:15

to putting the toothpaste you know the

58:17

the toothpaste is out the community the

58:19

the entities that we use to on

58:21

these federal entities even these statewide entities

58:23

like in the state of Louisiana where

58:26

I live they're not here to help

58:28

us anymore. They're not giving us the

58:30

information that we really need. I mean,

58:32

right now we're allowing the bird flu

58:34

to kind of run kind of wild.

58:36

And again, head scratcher, why are we

58:38

doing this? But this gets back

58:40

to this idea of this facilitates or

58:43

accelerates to use your great word. This

58:45

is an accelerant for societal collapse. And

58:47

that to me finally crystallizes what we're

58:49

seeing. So we need to rely on

58:51

one another to be able to get

58:53

this information out as effectively. as possible.

58:56

It occurs to me that we need

58:58

to be starting to speak about some

59:00

of these policies as eugenicists adjacent. I

59:02

agree. Because it's really just like they

59:04

don't say it explicitly but it's this

59:06

notion that survival of the fittest and

59:08

I'm the fittest because I don't know

59:10

why I take a bunch of Testosterone

59:13

shots or I'm rich in privilege or

59:15

I'm rich in privilege, right? And I've

59:17

yeah, exactly I have bespoke health care

59:19

Yes, the United States does have the

59:21

ability to produce the best health care

59:23

in the world if you have the

59:26

money to pay for it for everybody

59:28

else Well, you're screwed. I mean we

59:30

have tens of millions of people uninsured

59:32

in this country for example That that

59:34

element isn't is is scariest to me

59:36

is the idea that there are folks

59:39

like RFK junior and people that subscribe

59:41

to it that they don't want to

59:43

actually help people with disabilities or with

59:45

diseases, they find them to be

59:47

weak and want them to be on

59:49

their own. It's libertarian and eugenicist adjacent.

59:51

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And what happened this

59:53

week with autism, I think really also

59:56

again hurts the cause. You had the

59:58

CDC that, and so let me just

1:00:00

kind of quickly kind of summarize the

1:00:02

autism story. So as we know, or

1:00:04

maybe we didn't, but the RFK basically

1:00:06

commissioned the CDC that by September, Right?

1:00:09

We're going to find out what causes

1:00:11

autism. I mean, that's a crazy, you

1:00:14

know, this is something that people have been working

1:00:16

on for, for decades. But by September, you

1:00:18

know, the, you know, great, he's

1:00:20

going to have a real shot at

1:00:22

it. Finally. Okay. So we know

1:00:24

what we have a sense of what

1:00:26

he's going to suspect causes autism.

1:00:28

So what the CDC did is they

1:00:30

released a paper that basically said,

1:00:32

we've studied this. And what we are

1:00:34

seeing is that the increasing incidents, the

1:00:37

rates. of diagnoses, diagnoses of autism

1:00:39

is because we are getting better.

1:00:41

and looking for it, the ability

1:00:43

to diagnose, the ability to define

1:00:45

what autism, the autism spectrum scale,

1:00:47

or the AST, the Autism Spectrum

1:00:49

Disorder, which is basically a scale,

1:00:51

they are basically we are able

1:00:53

to better define what autism, maybe

1:00:55

in the past somebody would have

1:00:58

said that was mental illness or

1:01:00

maybe that was depression or you're

1:01:02

acting out or what have you,

1:01:04

we can now better define what

1:01:06

this so -called scale or the

1:01:08

spectrum is in terms of autism. Almost

1:01:10

hours after that paper came out

1:01:12

he in it in something that

1:01:15

I don't think I've ever seen

1:01:17

before I don't think it's I

1:01:19

I've never seen this that that

1:01:21

the health secretary then came out

1:01:23

and then basically refuted what the

1:01:25

CDC said by saying no this

1:01:27

is it toxins and by toxins

1:01:29

I think that's a thinly veiled

1:01:31

swipe at vaccines and certainly the

1:01:33

email that went to my buddy

1:01:35

doc griggs this morning also spoke

1:01:38

about toxins. Again, thinly veiled, swipe

1:01:40

it at vaccines as well. But

1:01:42

how is he, let's play what

1:01:44

he said yesterday about autism, which

1:01:46

is the first clip that we

1:01:48

should do here that's most relevant

1:01:50

to what we're talking about. We

1:01:52

can take him in order maybe

1:01:54

and start with the bit about

1:01:56

the ideology of autism prevalence here.

1:01:58

He also seems to not understand

1:02:01

what autism even looks like based

1:02:03

on this comment at the very

1:02:05

least. One

1:02:13

of the things

1:02:15

that I think that

1:02:17

we need to

1:02:19

move away from today

1:02:21

is this ideology

1:02:24

that the autism diagnosis,

1:02:26

that the autism

1:02:28

prevalence increase, that the

1:02:30

relentless increases are

1:02:32

simply artifacts of better

1:02:34

diagnoses, better recognition,

1:02:37

or changing diagnostic criteria.

1:02:39

If you look at table

1:02:41

three of the ADDM

1:02:44

report, it's clear that the

1:02:46

rates are real, that

1:02:48

they are increasing in the last

1:02:50

10 years, year by which the

1:02:52

firm is beginning with the first

1:02:54

one, year by year

1:02:56

there is a steady, relentless

1:02:59

increase. I

1:03:01

want to, because

1:03:03

this epidemic

1:03:05

denial, has become

1:03:07

a feature in the mainstream media

1:03:10

and it's based on an

1:03:12

industry canard and I obviously there

1:03:14

are people who don't want

1:03:16

us to look at environmental exposures

1:03:18

and And so I want

1:03:20

to just read you some of

1:03:23

that Okay, so that was

1:03:25

one part. Let's play this second

1:03:27

part here where he talks

1:03:29

about kids with autism how they're

1:03:31

never going to pay taxes

1:03:33

or Use the toilet

1:03:35

unassisted, which is just not accurate.

1:03:38

Um, which is also kind

1:03:40

of weird Well, let's,

1:03:42

well, let's unpack. Yeah, that's

1:03:44

weird as well. Right. I mean,

1:03:47

true Republican in the administration, I guess,

1:03:49

like only concerned about human beings

1:03:51

if they can, you know, attack payers,

1:03:53

Or think about their, their bathroom

1:03:55

habits. Yes. Well, I mean, RFK Junior

1:03:57

is not the most normal person,

1:03:59

but this part, I think this is

1:04:02

ableist. Let's, let's hear what he

1:04:04

says. These are kids

1:04:06

who many of them

1:04:08

were fully functional and regressed.

1:04:10

because of some environmental

1:04:12

exposure into autism when they're

1:04:14

two years old. And

1:04:17

these are kids who

1:04:19

will never pay taxes. They'll

1:04:21

never hold a job. They'll

1:04:24

never play baseball. They'll

1:04:26

never write a poem. They'll never

1:04:28

go out on a date. Many

1:04:30

of them will never use a

1:04:32

toilet unassisted. And

1:04:35

we have to recognize we are

1:04:37

doing this to our children. And

1:04:39

we need to put

1:04:41

an end to it and

1:04:43

I think I'm gonna

1:04:45

have Walter as a hot

1:04:47

Rodney All right, so

1:04:50

it's our whale in it

1:04:52

This is a moral

1:04:54

panic right where He's conflating

1:04:56

the increase in diagnoses

1:04:58

because we're getting better at

1:05:00

diagnosis and therapy with

1:05:02

an increase in rates and

1:05:04

at the same time

1:05:06

they are Placing the burden

1:05:09

on like say if you have

1:05:11

a child with autism They're saying

1:05:13

that those parents basically functionally did

1:05:15

something wrong and he says they're

1:05:17

trying to cure it But they're

1:05:19

want he's one being pseudo scientific

1:05:21

and treating it as a binary

1:05:23

and not acknowledging the spectrum that

1:05:25

you just said and then everything

1:05:28

else right with the the The

1:05:30

thinly veiled disgust that he has

1:05:32

for people with autism overplaying some

1:05:34

of people's Uh, experiences or straight

1:05:36

up lying about them, right? Um,

1:05:38

in order to make this claim,

1:05:40

it is, uh, he's exploiting how

1:05:42

people feel disempowered or maybe afraid

1:05:45

if their child has this diagnosis

1:05:47

by giving them this false notion

1:05:49

that they have control over it

1:05:51

all the while destroying confidence in

1:05:53

public health. The Marisol hasn't been

1:05:55

in childhood vaccines for over 20

1:05:57

years. And that was what the

1:05:59

initial claim was, was that that

1:06:01

was what was causing autism. Why

1:06:04

is he even still on this

1:06:06

if they've already tested this and

1:06:08

the Marisol has been taken out

1:06:10

and it had no effect on

1:06:12

these rates? Yeah, I think it

1:06:14

just kind of feeds that narrative,

1:06:16

that perpetual disinformation narrative. And you're

1:06:18

right, that Marisol has been long

1:06:21

gone. That was something I even

1:06:23

at that point was like, maybe that's a

1:06:25

theory, let's see what happens. Well, nothing happened.

1:06:27

You know, like we're still seeing cases of

1:06:29

autism and there's two things. One is, I

1:06:31

mean, somebody who you talk about, you know,

1:06:33

Greta Thunberg, and you, you, you, I have

1:06:35

this in my mind because I've heard you

1:06:38

say that, you say that her superpower, you

1:06:40

know, she refers to her autism, her,

1:06:42

as her superpower. And

1:06:45

again, I don't, I, I don't know her,

1:06:47

but I hope that maybe she's rights poetry

1:06:49

and maybe she's gone on a date or

1:06:51

two and, and, you know, with all the

1:06:53

things, refuting everything that he said. I think

1:06:55

you can go to the bathroom. I didn't

1:06:57

want to go there, but yes, I, I,

1:06:59

I hope that she's living her life. I

1:07:02

know plenty of people. who have kids that

1:07:04

have autism and what he described, you

1:07:06

know, as I'm speaking these words

1:07:08

right now, my toes are curled because

1:07:10

I want to make sure that

1:07:12

everything that I say is as close

1:07:14

to accurate as possible, right? I

1:07:16

mean, I dread saying something especially in

1:07:18

public where I say something wrong.

1:07:20

That's how most physicians or probably most

1:07:22

people, public figures who are experts

1:07:24

in their fields probably feel certainly, I

1:07:26

know that physicians do that. What

1:07:28

he just did, With like no self

1:07:30

-respecting the health health and human services

1:07:32

secretary would get up there and

1:07:34

and basically he just and like you

1:07:36

said it was an ableist he

1:07:38

just basically created in one one fell

1:07:40

swoop one paintbrush just to describe

1:07:43

something that maybe exist in one small

1:07:45

part of the spectrum of autism

1:07:47

but he the fact that he just.

1:07:49

You know, basically, by doing that,

1:07:51

he just perpetuates this notion of misinformation

1:07:53

and is shameful and that he's

1:07:55

the person standing up at that position.

1:07:57

I never realized how powerful it

1:07:59

was because when it works right, those

1:08:01

individuals usually kind of are invisible

1:08:03

and they're just doing the right thing

1:08:05

in the background. I now recognize

1:08:07

the power of that position because when

1:08:09

somebody's not saying the right things

1:08:11

or doing the right things, it actually

1:08:13

hurts the population greatly. what

1:08:15

do you think about this war on

1:08:17

peer review as a concept that he

1:08:19

seems to be at the forefront of

1:08:21

just this notion that scientific consensus is

1:08:24

worthless uh... and we should be trying

1:08:26

everything and throwing everything at the wall

1:08:28

like those guys the wine scenes uh...

1:08:30

on the internet are are a big

1:08:32

part of this too with their vaccine

1:08:34

denialism where they can't stand up to

1:08:36

peer review so they just attack the

1:08:39

concept of peer review and science altogether

1:08:41

but these folks are getting rewarded by

1:08:43

the trump administration not the wine scenes

1:08:45

in particular all and they've lamented that

1:08:47

they're not included how it because it's

1:08:49

all about them but like This level

1:08:51

of denialism is at the core of

1:08:54

this project. Yeah, well, I mean, because

1:08:56

their ideas are false and because their

1:08:58

ideas are never going to be accepted

1:09:00

by folks such as myself who do

1:09:02

this for a living, right? We recognize

1:09:04

that peer review is the gold standard.

1:09:06

That's what we aspire to do. Every

1:09:08

article I've ever written that had scientific

1:09:10

claims in there, I want to be

1:09:12

peer reviewed because if I'm wrong, like

1:09:14

I said a moment ago, I don't

1:09:16

want to put something out there that

1:09:18

could potentially be wrong or misleading. reading.

1:09:20

Peer review is what that is. I've

1:09:22

been on the side where I've refereed

1:09:24

articles and I've written a number of

1:09:26

articles. Peer review is the gold standard,

1:09:28

but think about it by taking it

1:09:30

down. All you're doing is you're helping

1:09:32

to take down a major pillar that

1:09:34

the greatness of this country once was.

1:09:36

And that was our science. Our science

1:09:38

standards were so high. Our medical standards

1:09:40

were so high. The CDC was the

1:09:42

jewel of the earth. There are so

1:09:44

many other CDCs around the world that

1:09:46

are emulating the CDC that we have

1:09:48

here. The work that is

1:09:50

being done, that was being done

1:09:52

here. And one thing that I'm

1:09:54

hearing quite a bit is this,

1:09:56

this major brain drain. We're hearing

1:09:58

and hearing from scientists and people

1:10:00

who do research are potentially leaving

1:10:02

the country to continue the research

1:10:05

elsewhere because grants are being shut

1:10:07

down. I know of a number

1:10:09

of HIV projects that are in

1:10:11

New Orleans that are being shut

1:10:13

down right now because they were

1:10:15

being done using federal grants. I

1:10:17

have several clinics that are

1:10:19

federally funded. I don't know. What

1:10:21

my funding is gonna be you know

1:10:24

one thing that I I say and I

1:10:26

you know I know who your audience

1:10:28

is so I feel comfortable saying what about

1:10:30

to say I think once people recognize

1:10:32

that undocumented Individuals who are living with HIV

1:10:34

are fully covered under Ryan white stuff.

1:10:36

I think That's the first

1:10:38

to go, you know, and I say

1:10:41

that like just like, you know,

1:10:43

fearful Well, they did

1:10:45

it with USAID. There are horror

1:10:47

stories. 100%. Do you know

1:10:49

what it costs to keep somebody

1:10:51

alive? So it costs 12

1:10:53

cents per day per person for

1:10:55

HIV medications. 12 cents per

1:10:57

day. So to keep a child alive,

1:10:59

we're talking about... was that like a

1:11:01

couple dollars a month yeah is that

1:11:03

like what that's thirty six dollars a

1:11:05

year something a dollar a week right

1:11:08

that's that's all it costs yeah that's

1:11:10

i'm not a math surgeon i don't

1:11:12

know horrible at math i don't know

1:11:14

why i cry um but the the

1:11:16

point is is that um the uh...

1:11:18

that it it's really the destruction it

1:11:20

again i have to keep going back

1:11:23

to this notion of the purposely trying

1:11:25

to accelerate a collapse yeah And there's

1:11:27

nothing else that would describe why we're

1:11:29

seeing such a rapid destruction and deconstruction

1:11:31

of our public health system. But then

1:11:33

the question is, what's the motive except

1:11:35

to privatize? I think moving us quicker

1:11:38

into network cities. Yeah,

1:11:40

that's what I think I think you

1:11:42

you know if there will be one city

1:11:44

where vaccine you know vaccines at all I

1:11:46

could see another city would be like

1:11:48

oh, we're well vaccinated come But to come

1:11:50

here you're gonna have to accept a lower

1:11:52

wrong in society I don't know I'm starting

1:11:54

to kind of think through some of these

1:11:57

things as to what this could potentially look

1:11:59

like and Prospera is a scary place It

1:12:01

was exactly what what the amicline has been

1:12:03

talking about that's already there in Roatan Which

1:12:05

is one of the three islands that are

1:12:07

right off of Honduras and Prospera takes

1:12:09

a huge part of that of that island

1:12:11

and which is basically a Advertised area that

1:12:13

you know what she was talking about this

1:12:16

lawsuit that they the government of Honduras like

1:12:18

you guys have to go and they basically

1:12:20

said they levied a 14 billion dollar lawsuit

1:12:22

or something that would completely destroy Honduras as

1:12:24

a country and they can do that because

1:12:26

they have the money and the wherewithal to

1:12:28

be able to do something like that

1:12:30

Yeah, I'll just say like that. Um dynamic

1:12:32

is also part of quince lobotian's book last

1:12:35

year crack up capitalism He talks about that

1:12:37

colony and just like the desire by peter

1:12:39

teal type folks to basically secede from the

1:12:41

they're secessionists Yeah, I want your perspective on

1:12:43

this tweet here. I've been pretty frustrated with

1:12:45

the anti -vax movement This is from grace

1:12:47

Thorvalson who was on left reckoning earlier this

1:12:49

week She says a significant sect of the

1:12:51

modern anti -vax movement is born out of

1:12:54

ableist parents rejecting their autistic children and directing

1:12:56

blame toward inarguably a modern medical practices instead

1:12:58

of just being good parents so it's funny

1:13:00

that was so that was the second point

1:13:02

I was actually going to bring up and

1:13:04

I you know we just got we got

1:13:06

sidetracked yeah but that's a great point so

1:13:08

I think that and again well -meaning parents

1:13:11

I'm not a parent but I can imagine

1:13:13

what it's like to be a parent well

1:13:15

-meaning parents love their child child

1:13:17

seems to be doing well, then all

1:13:19

of a sudden something happens to that

1:13:21

child. Rather than believing that it's genetics, you

1:13:24

know, that it's just likely that was just part

1:13:26

of the development of that child, there

1:13:28

is this idea of, well, something

1:13:30

happened to that child. And

1:13:32

that was out of my control,

1:13:34

rather than possibly accepting the

1:13:36

fact that life is life and

1:13:38

that this is just, you

1:13:40

know, when genetics re -assort themselves

1:13:42

during recombination, These are the

1:13:44

things that these are the things that

1:13:46

happen and and and so I that's that's

1:13:48

something I 100 % agree with and

1:13:50

and really believe in and and I feel

1:13:52

bad for these parents. I really do

1:13:55

like my heart goes out to them. They

1:13:57

love their child. They want to see

1:13:59

their child have a date or write a

1:14:01

poem or do the things that they

1:14:03

were talking about. It's hard as hell.

1:14:05

It's difficult because we don't have the societal

1:14:07

safety net and structures to help these

1:14:09

people because we don't have we don't have

1:14:12

socialized health care and that is what

1:14:14

All of this is about, ma -ha, this

1:14:16

whole movement is exploiting the anxiety that

1:14:18

people feel when they have to interact with

1:14:20

the medical system, whether it be with

1:14:22

a doctor or with a hospital. And so

1:14:24

when you don't feel like you have

1:14:26

control over the for -profit healthcare system and

1:14:29

that it could bankrupt you if you

1:14:31

have... cancer again to an accident. What

1:14:34

are you going to do? You're going to

1:14:36

try to seek out somebody that sells you

1:14:38

something that makes you feel empowered. And that's

1:14:40

why I think people actually believe in some

1:14:42

of that misinformation. Yeah, 100

1:14:44

% agree with that. Peter Offit, who's

1:14:46

a vaccinologist, has this great story

1:14:48

that he tells about how he was

1:14:50

doing a vaccine clinic. He's a

1:14:52

pediatrician, and he does vaccines. He creates

1:14:54

vaccines. His wife was

1:14:56

a nurse. She was drawing up

1:14:58

the vaccines. The next

1:15:00

kid was sitting on mom's lap, he was

1:15:02

just getting ready to give her a vaccine

1:15:04

when the child had a seizure. Child had

1:15:07

a seizure before that child got a vaccine,

1:15:09

okay? The child, that was the first time

1:15:11

the child had an epileptic, you know, expression.

1:15:15

Child went to the hospital, child did

1:15:17

fine, everything was fine. And the cautionary

1:15:19

tale he tells is this, what would

1:15:21

have happened if that kid had had

1:15:23

a seizure 30 seconds after he gave

1:15:25

that vaccine? Forever in that

1:15:27

mom's mind, you would never be

1:15:29

able to peel away how that

1:15:31

vaccine and that seizure were intricately

1:15:33

linked. And so I think those

1:15:35

are the sorts of things. And

1:15:38

when we as a society are

1:15:40

becoming less and less media literate and

1:15:42

science literate, which I think also

1:15:44

is part of an intent as well,

1:15:46

I think, you know, you can

1:15:48

believe in stories much easier. Again, this

1:15:50

misinformation. And because as we know,

1:15:52

it, you know, like I said, it travels the,

1:15:54

it travels the internet to travel. It circles the

1:15:56

world six times before the truth can put its

1:15:58

pants on. Mark Allen

1:16:00

dairy. Thank you so much People should

1:16:02

check out you have these amazing like

1:16:04

animations. Maybe we should just play 20

1:16:06

seconds or so of it Yeah, but

1:16:08

you we can also check out your

1:16:10

podcast now. Can we promote can promote?

1:16:12

Yes, please. Yeah, so I'm on blue

1:16:14

sky at the Dr. Dairy and I'm

1:16:16

always putting up articles that resemble this

1:16:18

at the Dr. Dairy and then also

1:16:20

noise filter Show is our YouTube channel.

1:16:22

We're gonna start populating that with 10

1:16:24

minutes segments, we're going to try to

1:16:27

be doing that daily noise filter show,

1:16:29

and we'll be also be releasing it

1:16:31

as a podcast. It's all going through,

1:16:33

we're sponsored by an entity called Doc

1:16:35

Wire News. So they get the first

1:16:37

content and then we get to put

1:16:39

it up after. Oh, that's great. That's

1:16:41

great. And I mean, noise filter, check

1:16:43

it out, everybody. Pay attention

1:16:45

because we're going to need this

1:16:47

kind of counter programming during this time

1:16:49

period. with the level

1:16:51

of disinformation that we have out there.

1:16:53

And if you're down in New Orleans,

1:16:56

check out 102 .3 WHIB community radio

1:16:58

where Mark Allen is. Well,

1:17:00

we may, we may be able,

1:17:02

are we going to be

1:17:04

able to get that? Okay, one

1:17:06

second. So these are animations that

1:17:08

we created that were federally funded

1:17:10

by the government, the CDC, the

1:17:13

NIH, the before times

1:17:15

that were meant to explain like

1:17:17

mRNA vaccines or whatever clinical trials

1:17:19

or whatever, are you going to

1:17:21

do the long COVID one or

1:17:23

the, or the clinical trials? This

1:17:27

one was person with trans experience. So

1:17:29

that one is you equals you, which

1:17:31

is undetectable equals untransmittable. That

1:17:33

one's on prep. Yeah. If you

1:17:35

go, I think you go down the long COVID,

1:17:37

maybe that's the mRNA vaccine, scroll down another,

1:17:39

I think, I think one more after that. And

1:17:41

I think, oh, sorry, that's a child sex.

1:17:44

And then right there, this is a really good

1:17:46

one. All right, cool. It

1:18:00

had been a while

1:18:02

since I felt strong Well

1:18:04

enough to sing my

1:18:06

song Raspberry voice, persistent

1:18:08

cough Everything was

1:18:10

filling up I

1:18:13

couldn't breathe My

1:18:16

lungs were burning My

1:18:19

brain was

1:18:21

foggy My stomach

1:18:24

churning I'd

1:18:26

had COVID a

1:18:29

few months back

1:18:32

Shouldn't I be

1:18:35

back on track

1:18:37

Then I learned

1:18:39

about COVID That's

1:18:42

a Orleans choir That's

1:18:44

amazing Can really take a

1:18:46

Oh, his can I

1:18:48

take control When

1:18:52

coronavirus attacks your system The

1:18:54

the and diaphragm can be

1:18:56

primary victims Information of the

1:18:58

vocal cords makes your voice

1:19:00

sound hoarse as observed And

1:19:02

vagus nerve affects your breathing

1:19:04

Irritation causes coughs and good

1:19:06

news is we have the

1:19:08

information get ahead of this

1:19:10

COVID situation. treatment plan involves

1:19:13

love care Staying boosted, I'm

1:19:15

aware Help to eat and

1:19:17

exercise and rest Meditation to

1:19:19

relieve my stress In just

1:19:21

a bit I was back

1:19:23

to singing So enjoy this

1:19:25

joyful noise we're bringing Move

1:19:29

along Move

1:19:31

along Yeah, along I built myself

1:19:33

into this choir Oh, you

1:19:35

did? Yeah, it goes on for

1:19:38

like another seconds All right

1:19:40

Move along Move along There you

1:19:42

are There are on the

1:19:44

watch. next Here it is

1:19:46

Move along Move along Move along That

1:19:48

was paid for by the City of New

1:19:50

Orleans Oh, that's amazing All right, everybody

1:19:52

check that out. Also, I was about to

1:19:54

say like, how you get such a

1:19:56

good singer? Yeah, Boyd Conley

1:19:58

Yes, she's New Orleans No

1:20:01

shortage. Where'd you find a singer in New Orleans?

1:20:05

Uh, yeah, where'd you find water in Miami? Anyway,

1:20:08

um, really, really appreciate you coming on

1:20:10

today. Um, Mark Allen Derry, uh, what

1:20:12

is your blue sky again? Uh, the

1:20:14

Dr. Derry. The Dr. Derry, Randy Gorenberg,

1:20:16

uh, wanted to make sure that, uh,

1:20:18

they had that correct. thanks so much

1:20:21

thank you thanks so much really appreciate

1:20:23

your time today uh... folks that's gonna

1:20:25

be the free part of this program

1:20:27

we're going to wrap up here and

1:20:29

head into the fun half where we

1:20:31

will be joined shortly by brandon sudden

1:20:33

and that bender uh... it's your support

1:20:36

that makes the show possible join the

1:20:38

majority report dot com uh...

1:20:40

matt what's happening on left -wrecking maybe will

1:20:42

bring those guys in on the other

1:20:44

side yeah tuesday night uh... we like

1:20:46

i said i'd grace torvalson on talking

1:20:48

about a piece that she took a

1:20:50

road about uh... anti -vax sentiment in

1:20:52

colorado and we talked a little bit

1:20:55

about their abundant abundance uh... governor uh...

1:20:57

jared polis so check that out patreon

1:20:59

dot com slash uh... left -wrecking all right

1:21:01

folks see you in the fun half

1:21:05

Okay, Emma, please. Well, I just, I

1:21:07

feel that my voice is sorely

1:21:09

lacking on the majority report. Wait, look,

1:21:12

look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a

1:21:14

vacation at Disney World. So ladies and

1:21:16

gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma

1:21:18

to the show. It is Thursday. I

1:21:21

think you need to take over for Sam.

1:21:23

That's cool. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause

1:21:25

you right there. What? You can't

1:21:27

encourage Emma to live like this. And

1:21:29

I'll tell you why. So it was

1:21:31

offered to twerk, sushi and poker with

1:21:33

the boys. So

1:21:35

sushi and poker with the boys. So

1:21:38

it was offered to twerk, sushi

1:21:40

and poker with the boys. So twerk,

1:21:42

sushi and poker with

1:21:45

the boys. So it

1:21:47

was offered to twerk, sushi

1:21:49

and uh, that's what we call

1:21:52

bids. I

1:21:59

just think that what you did to Tim Pool,

1:22:01

uh, was mean. Free speech. That's

1:22:03

not what we're about here. Look at

1:22:06

how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even

1:22:08

talk about it, because I think you're

1:22:10

responsible I probably am in a certain way,

1:22:12

but let's get to the meltdown here. Twerp?

1:22:14

Sushi and poker with the boys.

1:22:16

Oh my god. Twerp? Wow. Sushi? I'm

1:22:19

sorry, I'm losing my fucking mind.

1:22:21

So it's offered to Twerp? Yeah. Sushi

1:22:23

and poker with the boys. Lodzik.

1:22:25

Twerp? Sushi and poker with the boys.

1:22:27

Twerp? I think I'm like a little kid. think

1:22:29

I'm like a little kid. I think I'm

1:22:31

like a kid. Twerp? I think I'm like

1:22:33

a little kid. think I'm like a little

1:22:35

kid. Add this debate seven thousand times. think

1:22:37

I'm like a little kid. think think I'm

1:22:39

like a kid. Twerp? I'm losing my fucking

1:22:41

mind. Some people just don't understand. I'm trying

1:22:43

to be a dick right now, but I

1:22:45

absolutely think the U .S. should be providing me

1:22:47

with life and kids. That's

1:22:50

not what we're talking

1:22:52

about here. right. That

1:22:54

is not a fun job. Twerp? That's a real

1:22:56

thing. That's

1:22:59

a real fit. That's got to a fit.

1:23:01

Twerp? Twerp? That's a real thing. Twerp?

1:23:13

That's that poker with the boys. think he

1:23:15

might be blowing it out proportionally. Real thin.

1:23:18

That's that poker with the boys. That offered

1:23:20

him twerk. That's a real thin. That's that

1:23:22

poker with boys. Let's go, Joe. Twerk, sushi,

1:23:24

and poker with the boys. Take it

1:23:26

easy, though. Twerk, sushi, and poker. Things

1:23:28

have really gotten out of hand. Sushi

1:23:30

and poker with the boys. Illusion on

1:23:32

twerk, fluidity. Sushi, you do not have

1:23:35

a clue as to what's going on.

1:23:37

Live YouTube has like the of the

1:23:39

world on her shoulders. See, I just

1:23:41

didn't want to do this show It

1:23:43

can't do it anymore. It was so

1:23:45

much easier when the Majority Report was

1:23:47

just you. And you were happy. Let's

1:23:49

change the subject. Right. Rangers Ranger

1:23:51

is the next are doing great. Now, shut

1:23:53

up. Don't want people saying reckless things on

1:23:55

your program. That's one of the most difficult

1:23:57

parts about this show. This is a pro

1:23:59

-killing podcast. I'm thinking maybe it's time we

1:24:01

bury the hatchet. Left is best. We

1:24:42

are back and we are

1:24:44

joined now by our fun

1:24:46

half friends Brandon Sutton Matt

1:24:48

Binder. What's up guys? I

1:24:51

do it What?

1:24:55

Hello? It's

1:24:57

happening again. My

1:24:59

headphones are off. Yeah,

1:25:01

I'm back. What's up

1:25:04

guys? How are you doing? Nothing.

1:25:06

We're doing great. I was just saying what

1:25:08

a great interview I was watching the show

1:25:10

prior to hopping on and what a really

1:25:12

good interview with Mark Allen. Oh,

1:25:14

thanks so much. Um, well, let's see

1:25:16

if you can top it over on

1:25:18

the discourse. I've been watching your streams.

1:25:20

It's like, because you guys, or you're,

1:25:22

you guys, you're doing it right before

1:25:25

our show. So sometimes I'll put it

1:25:27

on the background just to see if

1:25:29

I'm missing anything with news. And as

1:25:31

always, you're very funny, Brandon. So what's

1:25:33

happening on over there? Well, this morning

1:25:35

we watched Chuck Grassley be ripped apart

1:25:38

by a, we watched the. Impressively

1:25:40

old Chuck Grassley be ripped

1:25:42

apart by a crowd of slightly

1:25:44

less old constituents of his,

1:25:46

which, you know, gave me a

1:25:48

little bit of a heart

1:25:50

issue, if I'm being honest. But

1:25:52

yeah, I mean, it's spreading

1:25:54

around the country. And then we

1:25:56

also read the latest piece

1:25:58

in Ken Clippenstein's substack about the

1:26:00

new FBI, like extremist designation, like

1:26:03

nihilist nihilistic violent

1:26:05

extremists. So, you know, It's

1:26:09

spreading. I'm an extremist

1:26:11

for nihilism. you

1:26:13

say? Being an extremist for

1:26:15

nihilism is a funny thing. Like,

1:26:17

I extremely don't think anything.

1:26:19

No, I think that Ken has

1:26:21

his opinion on it, but

1:26:23

my opinion is slightly different on

1:26:25

the nomenclature. I think it's

1:26:27

a recognition that we live in

1:26:29

a time where more and

1:26:32

more people are becoming detethered from

1:26:34

mainstream society in one way

1:26:36

or another. at

1:26:38

the same time becoming dissatisfied with the,

1:26:40

you know, legitimate, legitimate mechanisms that

1:26:42

we have for holding people accountable for,

1:26:44

you know, some rightfully feel that

1:26:46

way and some unrightly fully feel that

1:26:48

way. And so I think that,

1:26:50

you know, the security state is recognizing

1:26:52

that we're on the precipice of

1:26:55

a, you know, possibly general, a period

1:26:57

of general unrest that could lead

1:26:59

to violence and they're looking to make

1:27:01

everyone an example like Luigi Mangione.

1:27:03

If you just don't believe in the

1:27:05

government anymore, then, you know, you

1:27:07

might too be a nihilistic, violent extremist.

1:27:10

Um, uh, Matt Binder, hello

1:27:12

to you. Uh, what's happening over on

1:27:15

your shows? Sure. So, uh,

1:27:17

last night on the stream at

1:27:19

youtube.com slash Matt Binder, uh, we looked

1:27:21

at, uh, the, uh, a brigo

1:27:23

Garcia case, which is just horrific and

1:27:25

you know, we've all been covering

1:27:27

that and um, we also looked at

1:27:29

that same, uh, town hall video

1:27:31

from that town hall where Chuck Grassley

1:27:33

is getting torn to pieces and

1:27:35

I gotta say the the for me,

1:27:37

the the takeaway was just how

1:27:39

good do you want to play it?

1:27:41

Do you want to play it

1:27:43

and then we have our sounds? I

1:27:46

didn't know. Yeah, let's do it. Well,

1:27:48

so Actually, you know what? Everyone should just

1:27:50

go to my YouTube channel and Brandon's

1:27:52

YouTube channel. Go there first. I

1:27:54

want to watch it again. It was

1:27:56

really interesting. Like I said, I guess I'm

1:27:58

a little bit too sensitive. I'm a

1:28:00

squishy leftist. I could never yell at a

1:28:02

man that old. Chuck

1:28:07

Grassley, didn't he have all those

1:28:09

tweets? He seemingly still controls his Twitter

1:28:11

account at age 100. 28?

1:28:13

I mean, where are we at

1:28:15

right now on the ticker for that

1:28:17

dude? He's

1:28:19

still in office. He

1:28:22

was tweeting out birds on his lawn

1:28:24

or something like that, very old grandpa

1:28:26

stuff. It's mainly about the History Channel,

1:28:28

not showing history, which is something I

1:28:30

entirely agree with. Well, that's where we

1:28:32

can have bipartisanship. No more ancient aliens

1:28:34

on the History Channel. Yes,

1:28:36

but we've had this debate

1:28:39

before can

1:28:43

still have your agent aliens just

1:28:45

maybe not on the channel called history

1:28:47

that's on history to you yes

1:28:49

yes but with all that said here

1:28:52

is Chuck Grassley getting yelled at

1:28:54

by constituents we played the the part

1:28:56

yesterday where one of his constituents

1:28:58

was saying can you please raise taxes

1:29:00

on the rich but this is

1:29:02

even more interesting this is in iowa

1:29:05

uh... speak at a dsa meeting

1:29:07

or no no justice is just as

1:29:09

constituency uh... uh... we don't know

1:29:11

if they were soros funded and means

1:29:13

jury still out on that front

1:29:15

but they're they're this is about the

1:29:17

keel mara brigo garcia case and

1:29:20

broadly the deportations of these folks without

1:29:22

due process For

1:29:27

you as a senator,

1:29:29

as my elected senator,

1:29:32

is there anything you

1:29:34

can do so that

1:29:36

we can follow international

1:29:38

law better or just

1:29:40

the ideals of our

1:29:42

country to be a

1:29:45

place of vote for

1:29:47

others, where they

1:29:49

can come when they are searching

1:29:51

for a home because they have

1:29:53

no place else to go? I

1:30:14

just the crowd, like every time

1:30:16

he says something in this, just

1:30:18

burbling up, like you, you, you

1:30:21

respect refugees, What are you talking

1:30:23

about, The the whole thing is demonizing

1:30:25

them. That's

1:30:27

an impressive one -off now. Chris, tell

1:30:29

us quiet so I can hear Yeah,

1:30:31

but, Right now we're not.

1:30:33

I mean, that right now we're not.

1:30:35

These changes have been taking place,

1:30:37

and that's what concerns much. There's so

1:30:39

much. process. It hurts. You're not

1:30:42

going to process. You're not to process.

1:30:44

going process. Yeah. Okay. So with

1:30:46

the law... I would welcome refugees, and

1:30:48

I would welcome people at the

1:30:50

other side of the... And you're going

1:30:52

to bring that guy back? El

1:30:55

Salvador? Yeah. Yeah.

1:30:59

Yeah. Yeah. Why

1:31:01

not? Well, because that's

1:31:03

not a... That's not a political

1:31:06

conflict. Supreme Court sends

1:31:08

a bringing back. are... Yeah.

1:31:10

And the President has a

1:31:12

holding constitution. He's defined a

1:31:14

constitution. You're a community. Trump

1:31:16

don't care. I

1:31:18

get an order. for twelve hundred dollars,

1:31:20

and I just say no, does

1:31:22

that stand up? hope is he's got

1:31:24

an order from the Supreme Court,

1:31:26

and he just said no yeah so

1:31:29

you to take it off the

1:31:31

screen. the guy said there if the

1:31:33

court orders me to pay twelve

1:31:35

hundred dollars, can I just say no

1:31:37

The Supreme Court told them to

1:31:39

bring him back. that's That's... That is

1:31:41

a very salient point that Democrats

1:31:43

should jump on. You've got to pay

1:31:45

court fines. but Trump doesn't have

1:31:47

to. And the feebleness here, it cuts

1:31:49

to Trump's entire brand proposition, as

1:31:51

Michael would say, that can make

1:31:53

world leaders do what he wants. And

1:31:55

now all of a sudden, ooh, we can't

1:31:57

get El Salvador to ...to do nothing,

1:31:59

because they're a sovereign nation. We respect sovereignty.

1:32:02

Everyone, everyone from everyone, listen to

1:32:04

this, to everyone showing up

1:32:06

at Iowa Town Halls. knows this

1:32:08

stuff. It's the fascist playbook

1:32:10

where the enemy is both weak

1:32:12

and strong, but we are

1:32:14

also both strong and then entirely

1:32:16

powerless. It's the contradiction that

1:32:19

that kind of black and white

1:32:21

thinking can't sustain. And

1:32:23

also in this case, it seems like

1:32:25

one of those online nerd arguments that

1:32:27

JD Vance would make. Like it's one

1:32:29

of those like, you know, checkmate lib

1:32:31

arguments where like, well, are you saying

1:32:33

that we can violate the agency of

1:32:35

a foreign country? I thought that was

1:32:37

bad. And it's like everyone outside of

1:32:39

that childish online, one Upsman ship dynamic

1:32:41

understands how the situation works. But later

1:32:43

in this clip, maybe right now, like

1:32:45

someone else makes a really, another really

1:32:47

good point about a way that we

1:32:49

might get these people back that I

1:32:51

think I I landed on my stream,

1:32:53

but sorry for interrupting. First, I just

1:32:55

want to say, even if it's true

1:32:57

that Bukele is intransigent, let's say he's,

1:32:59

I don't know, maybe he's done a

1:33:02

deal with gangs, for instance. And

1:33:04

those gangs wanted to kill that

1:33:06

guy. If he can't get that guy

1:33:08

back, then there should be no

1:33:10

further relationship with El Salvador at all.

1:33:12

And yet Marco Rubio is still

1:33:14

touting the partnership as a great one

1:33:16

for security and they're planning to

1:33:19

expand the carceral capacity. It's

1:33:22

it's very heartening to see everyone from

1:33:24

again people listen to this to people

1:33:26

in this room Understand that they're being

1:33:28

the smoke is being blown up their

1:33:30

ass right now The

1:33:43

president of that country is

1:33:45

not subject to our U

1:33:47

.S. Supreme Court. Yeah,

1:33:53

that person calls it out.

1:33:55

They said if Trump wants

1:33:58

to bring him back, Trump

1:34:00

would bring him back. Yep.

1:34:02

Yep. These guys know, especially

1:34:04

with Bukele. Come on, Bukele.

1:34:06

If if Trump said to

1:34:08

jump, Bukele would ask how

1:34:10

high that idolizes Trump. Yeah.

1:34:12

Yeah. He's a he's a well -shaved

1:34:14

lap dog. Go ahead, Brandon. No, someone in

1:34:17

the clip. I can't. All of the

1:34:19

rambling I couldn't hear. if it was

1:34:21

said now or it comes up later

1:34:23

but someone also points out that aren't we

1:34:25

paying El Salvador to hold these people

1:34:27

like we're paying them like a fee

1:34:29

right like for like not necessarily this specific

1:34:31

guy but the other like 300 people

1:34:33

like six million dollars like yeah could

1:34:35

we not just simply claw that money

1:34:37

back and stop paying them until they give

1:34:39

this person back like Donald

1:34:43

Trump knows how to stiff contractors. That's

1:34:45

one of his corporate talents. And that

1:34:47