0:00

Team of high performers bring

0:02

more high performers because smart

0:04

people and good people like

0:06

to work with other smart people

0:08

and good people. Welcome back to

0:10

40 Minute Mentor, the podcast

0:12

on a mission to raise

0:14

aspirations and inspire the next

0:17

generation of category defining founders,

0:19

all in just 40 minutes.

0:21

Today we're joined by Raphael

0:23

Jorda Sikier, founder and CEO

0:25

of Open Cosmos, the UK-based

0:27

satellite company on a mission

0:29

to monitor and combat climate

0:31

change. Founded in 2015, Open

0:33

Cosmos delivered its first satellite

0:35

in record time with a

0:37

team of just five people.

0:39

Since then, the businesses scale

0:41

to over $100 million in satellite

0:44

contracts, a team of over 130

0:46

employees in Spain, Portugal, Greece and

0:48

the UK, and has raised a

0:51

whopping 50 million... $10 Series B

0:53

funding round from top investors. Prior

0:56

to starting Open Cosmos, Raphael worked

0:58

at large corporations and innovative space

1:00

startups, including Airbus Defense, Space, and

1:03

Zero to Infinity. Although the Open

1:05

Cosmos team has achieved incredible milestones

1:07

over the last decade, they are

1:10

only scratching the surface of the

1:12

impact that they can have. So I

1:14

am super excited to have Raphael on

1:16

the podcast today to explore his founder

1:18

journey in detail and hear more about

1:21

his plans for 2025 and beyond. So

1:23

Raphael, a warm welcome to 40-minute mentor,

1:25

how are you doing today? Hi James,

1:27

very well and a pleasure to be

1:29

here with you and to share something

1:31

with your community. I really appreciate it.

1:33

Thank you for joining us. I can't

1:36

wait to dig into your story, but

1:38

what we always like to do on

1:40

this podcast is get our listeners to

1:42

learn a bit more about you, to

1:44

warm you up with a few quick

1:47

fire questions. So please can you finish

1:49

the following sentences after me? Number one,

1:51

the moment that to find my career

1:53

was when. Definitely when I found it

1:56

up in Cosmos. Yeah, fair enough. We'll

1:58

come on to learn a lot more

2:00

about that. of this conversation. My biggest

2:02

failure to date is... In general I

2:04

struggle a lot to say no, so

2:07

my biggest failure is always trying to

2:09

accommodate all the opportunities raising and that

2:11

sometimes costs trouble. Yes, that's something I

2:13

am definitely a yes man. I like

2:15

to try and help people I like

2:18

to sort of take on stuff and

2:20

that's why I've burnt out a few

2:22

times, I'll be honest. So yeah, that's

2:24

something I need to get better out

2:26

in 2075 as well. A skill I

2:29

wish that I mastered earlier is. I've

2:31

learned to be pulled into these

2:33

opportunities actually, so before I used

2:35

to push a lot, where things

2:37

happen, and now is more setting

2:39

the right conditions to be pulled

2:41

into the right things by customers

2:43

by partners. So I would say

2:45

learning to be pulled. That's a

2:47

really, really good one. Thank you

2:49

for sharing. And finally, a life

2:51

lesson I keep coming back to

2:53

is. A less is more. Yes,

2:56

that's so true. In so many

2:58

different ways. Well, brilliant. Thank you

3:00

for sharing. I can't wait to dig

3:02

into all things open cosmos, but before

3:04

we get to that, let's start at

3:06

the beginning. I'd love to learn a

3:08

bit more about what your upbringing was

3:10

like, what your childhood was like, and

3:13

how you think that has shaped the

3:15

person you are today, the founder you

3:17

are today, and the leader that you

3:19

are today. Yeah, so I was very

3:21

lucky to be born in Majorca. a

3:24

small island in the middle of the

3:26

Mediterranean Sea, beautiful place. I come from

3:28

a very loving and caring family. My

3:31

parents are doctors and I mention that

3:33

because I think it's one of the

3:35

things that has created a little

3:37

bit my character. They are people that

3:40

really like to give more than take

3:42

and that are always trying to

3:44

help others and that I think very

3:46

might in my identity very early. So

3:48

coming from a place that is

3:50

kind of a small where people know

3:52

each other at the end of

3:55

the day it's an island and

3:57

where in an environment where people

3:59

care constantly about helping and solving

4:01

other people's challenges, like doctors

4:03

who really grew this kind of

4:06

instinct in me or way, natural way

4:08

of behavior. And I think that it's

4:10

an element of our culture at open

4:12

cosmos that drives a lot of our

4:14

purpose and what we do. So it

4:16

has definitely impacted a lot, not only

4:19

how I am, but also the company

4:21

and the culture at open cosmos. Oh

4:23

wonderful yeah and it sounds like your

4:25

parents you mentioned about you like to

4:27

say yes things and help people it

4:29

sounds like that comes directly from your

4:32

upbringing in your family and that's a

4:34

wonderful quality it sounds like you very

4:36

much brought that into the business I have

4:38

to ask where did your fascination with space

4:40

come from because that is that's obviously had

4:42

a big impact on your career so was

4:44

that something that has been there all of

4:46

your life? Not really, to many people surprised

4:49

because, look, I could tell you now a

4:51

story, a super romantic story, and when I

4:53

was a kid, I looked at the stars

4:55

in my York and all this, but it

4:57

would not be true. Like, as a kid,

4:59

I was super curious. I wanted to learn

5:01

about absolutely everything. And this is another thing

5:03

that I learned from my parents' curiosity, right?

5:06

And being able to learn constantly from

5:08

everything and everyone. And as a kid,

5:10

I was interested in math, in physics,

5:12

philosophy, in art, in literally. everything.

5:15

So when I had to go and

5:17

study the university, I didn't know what

5:19

to choose. I remember I was fortunate

5:21

that I had always been disciplined and

5:23

a good student so I could choose

5:25

what I wanted to do, which gave

5:27

even more opportunities. And I just didn't

5:29

know what. And I decided to study

5:32

our space engineering. I remember the rational

5:34

behind it now since... funny but what's

5:36

going to be something that are not

5:38

particularly best at and I will really

5:41

struggle learning about on my own so

5:43

the opposite that what everyone would do

5:45

right I always thought that learning about

5:47

the interaction between physics and engineering

5:50

in challenging domain like space and aerospace

5:52

would be something that would challenge me

5:54

and that I would struggle to learn

5:56

so I decided to go on that

5:58

bad and I felt love with it

6:01

because here at university I started

6:03

doing like projects with tons of

6:05

people we did supersonic sounding rockets

6:07

we did drones we did self-war

6:09

to emulate the different conditions had

6:11

a lot of fun during those

6:13

years they were very tough years

6:15

also in terms of learning and so

6:17

on but I enjoyed that fully and

6:20

that's what sparked the interesting in space

6:22

it came more from them compounded

6:24

learning and the joy for projects rather

6:26

than just the romantic ideas of a

6:29

child. No, fair enough. It's amazing how

6:31

these things can, it's not always as you

6:33

expect, I was expecting you to say, ah,

6:35

you know, I love space as a kid,

6:38

I wanted to be an astronaut, but no,

6:40

but it shows that curiosity, just being curious

6:42

can lead to incredible things and clearly you

6:44

found your passion. That's the other thing that

6:47

sometimes people... I asked, like, would you like

6:49

to be an astronaut? I said, no, I

6:51

really like my feet on the ground. I

6:53

really like actually to do things on Earth.

6:56

I love our planet. And I'm really happy,

6:58

actually, to help. And I admire the people

7:00

that are, go up there and want

7:02

to go up there. I'm very well

7:04

in Majorca or down here on earth

7:07

to be honest. Yeah, no, fair enough.

7:09

You obviously, you mentioned you worked in

7:11

an aerospace engineer and then you founded

7:14

Open Cosmos in 2015. So tell our

7:16

audience, if you don't mind, about the

7:18

origin story. What made you kind of

7:20

take that leap to build your own

7:23

business? How did it all come about?

7:25

Yeah, when I asked how things started.

7:27

I cannot put an exact moment when

7:29

the idea of opening gosmos came together

7:32

and there was not this revelation moment.

7:34

Actually, in one of the projects that

7:36

I had been working at university, we

7:38

put a high resolution camera in a

7:41

stratospheric balloon up to 40 kilometers and

7:43

we took pictures from there that resembled,

7:45

obviously it's not space, it's near a

7:47

space, but you have most of the

7:50

atmosphere underneath you, so it resembled the

7:52

atmosphere underneath you, so it resembled the

7:54

atmosphere, the black sky during the

7:57

plain day. And I was wow

7:59

with 300. heroes and a few

8:01

weekends of work from France and so

8:03

on like we've got these amazing images

8:05

wouldn't be cool and I remember saying

8:07

to my friend maybe because someday we

8:09

put satellite in orbit with the constraint

8:11

bridges and so on to do something

8:13

like this but usually that's not a

8:15

business idea that just a dream in

8:17

those moments right then I went to

8:19

work for space startups like I was

8:21

fortunate then also to work at airport

8:24

defense defense on a space and learn

8:26

from the MBI side and during all that

8:28

time that kind of seed was planted there

8:30

of could we with satellites address

8:32

some of the big challenges gathered

8:34

data down here and rather than

8:37

just selling them to a few

8:39

big corporates or defense organizations around

8:41

the world actually try to democratize

8:43

the access to this technology so the

8:46

data can be used for solving

8:48

climate, understanding the reality, understanding

8:50

earth. And everything that derives

8:52

from that logistics, natural resources,

8:54

access to water, urbanization, you

8:56

name it, right? So when

8:59

I was doing the NBA,

9:01

I started working on putting

9:03

together some of the potential

9:05

business cases for that to

9:07

be sustainable economically. And given

9:10

my engineering background, I was

9:12

actually also starting to prototype

9:14

and to develop some of

9:17

these technologies on my own. And I remember

9:19

there I said, Why is no one in

9:21

Europe really doing this? There is the talent.

9:23

I was 26 year old by the way

9:25

so there is this sense of naiveness

9:28

in the moment. I say this is

9:30

possible. Why are people just doing satellites

9:32

for 400 million each when they can

9:34

be down for 10 satellites depending on

9:37

what kind of sensing capabilities to fly?

9:39

And I came to learn that basically

9:41

it was the companies that were winning

9:43

this 400 million kind of contracts

9:45

have known Sanders to apartheid their

9:48

own business model, right, and bring

9:50

those cosons and enable these kind

9:52

of value propositions from the data side

9:54

to a margin, said, okay, someone has to

9:56

do it, no one is really doing, I'm going

9:59

to try it. Again. out of the nayiness,

10:01

I said, I have a little bit

10:03

of savings, I'm going to try to

10:05

find the best place where I can,

10:07

my savings by the way were 9K,

10:09

okay, so it was like I can

10:11

live for some time somewhere and dedicate

10:13

myself fully to trying to traction

10:16

a commercial opportunities of this.

10:18

So I applied to several

10:20

accelerators, they all actually really liked

10:22

the idea. I decided to come to

10:24

the best one in my opinion, which

10:27

was entrepreneur first in the UK. That's

10:29

how I ended in the UK. And

10:31

also because the strategy on a space

10:33

was very solid, there was an ecosystem

10:36

of entrepreneurship that was moving. And I

10:38

knew that what I was going to

10:40

try to do was nearly impossible, really

10:43

hard. So I wanted to be in

10:45

an environment that mitigated as many risks

10:47

and barriers as possible. Yeah, that was

10:49

a very very good decision because it

10:51

helped me learn from so many smart

10:53

people catalyse the development of hoping cosmos.

10:56

That's incredible. Yeah, we had the privilege

10:58

of having Alice Bentin on the podcast

11:00

a few years ago and I'm a

11:02

huge admirer of the impacts EF has

11:04

had on the ecosystem and the amazing

11:06

companies that have spun up out of

11:09

it is testament to what a great

11:11

program it is and just the caliber.

11:13

So yeah, very good decision I think

11:15

and clearly you've gone on to achieve

11:17

incredible thing. I guess before we get

11:19

into all those successes and all

11:22

those learnings, I'm not an area-specific

11:24

expert. I'm sure most of our

11:26

listeners won't be. So in simple

11:28

terms, can you just explain exactly

11:31

what you're building with Open Cosmos?

11:33

Why it's so significant for the

11:35

industry? And how does it benefit

11:37

people outside of the industry? Yeah, so

11:40

at Toping Cosmos we design,

11:42

manufacture, and operate satellites.

11:44

So people come to us with a

11:46

data need or an information of requirement

11:48

and we literally design all of the

11:51

hardware sample tested and operated in orbit

11:53

so they can get that and this

11:55

can be useful for telecommunication

11:58

purposes for Earth options. purpose.

12:00

So looking down on Earth and understanding

12:02

what's happening on Earth for science, any

12:04

of those domains, we've done missions in

12:07

each one of those. And the key

12:09

thing here is not about only the

12:11

technology that you bring up, it's actually

12:13

what can be done based on the

12:16

data that those satellites collect. So to

12:18

give you some examples, now we have

12:20

satellites in orbit that take high resolution

12:22

imagery on Earth and with machine learning

12:25

and analytical tools, you can understand things

12:27

like... what the impact that climate has

12:29

in different areas when there is a

12:31

catastrophe. We are particularly now focused on

12:34

domains like wildfires, floods, and areas like

12:36

this. Very prevalent given this week, the

12:38

LA fires. Exactly. We are also paying

12:40

a lot of attention to the use

12:43

of natural resources, where things are extracted,

12:45

where there is certain kind of resources

12:47

that need to be preserved, how those

12:49

resources can be used sustainably. In energy,

12:51

there is also a lot of work

12:54

to be done. Energy efficiency and energy

12:56

transition. One of the things I really

12:58

decided is like we launched a short

13:00

wave infrared satellite to orbit, start actually

13:03

monitoring with that kind of sensor thermal

13:05

differences in different regions and increasing the

13:07

resolution and the wavelengths of some of

13:09

these infrared images might allow us actually

13:12

to detect the difference in temperature that

13:14

they might be in buildings when you

13:16

look over or a city in. in

13:18

winter, which it's correlated with the amount

13:21

of energy that is dissipated and therefore

13:23

energy consumption. There are tons of applications

13:25

that can be served by these data.

13:27

If you cannot measure something, it's very

13:30

difficult for you to understand it and

13:32

then to see the progress in the

13:34

right direction, right? And big global challenges

13:36

like climate, like energy transition, like logistics,

13:39

natural resources, require those accurate measurements. That's

13:41

what our satellites do. Amazing. such a

13:43

brilliant business and so impactful. I mentioned

13:45

in the introduction that you built your

13:47

first open cosmo satellite in undersick... months

13:50

with a very small team which is

13:52

very impressive. What were those early days

13:54

like? Can you talk us through if

13:56

you take yourself back almost 10 years?

13:59

What were some of the biggest challenges

14:01

you had to overcome? What were some

14:03

of the biggest learnings from the early

14:05

days? The early days the more that

14:08

I look now back with 10 years

14:10

have passed by the way, time flies

14:12

right? Now that I look back, it

14:14

just was just so intense and crazy

14:17

days, right? I remember when I started

14:19

the company, I thought, well, it's better

14:21

if I don't go right now pitching

14:23

to investors because I'm 26, who's going

14:26

to invest in a kingdom saying that

14:28

wants to a satellite company. So my

14:30

obsession was, and I had very little

14:32

money in terms of survival money. So

14:35

my obsession was, how can I get

14:37

the first customer that learns? what I

14:39

do for them with the vision and

14:41

the different stepping stones that I need

14:43

to follow in order to be able

14:46

for the ultimate vision of understanding Earth

14:48

to be able to happen. And the

14:50

first idea I had is like again

14:52

out of one of the projects that

14:55

I had been done a few years

14:57

before at university I started developing campsite

14:59

so students could learn on how to

15:01

emulate satellites just for learning purposes. And

15:04

I decided that was a good way

15:06

to start. I contacted the European Space

15:08

Agency. I learned that they were going

15:10

to do a competition in Europe with...

15:13

all of the universities across Europe for

15:15

this and I thought well maybe the

15:17

students can use a little bit of

15:19

help so they don't have to start

15:22

everything from scratch but basically like transport

15:24

and so on. That was our first

15:26

contract and the company actually was I

15:28

just incorporated fast so I could issue

15:31

a bill to get that first payment

15:33

and it was huge for me at

15:35

the moment but it was only 30K

15:37

right but that imagine what it meant

15:39

that I could start bringing some people,

15:42

I could dedicate more time than to

15:44

the net steps, and that early traction

15:46

and the delivery of that project also

15:48

with a customer like the European Space

15:51

Agency, you build the connections, you understand.

15:53

how things work, was very meaningful. And

15:55

great validation. I wouldn't even dare to

15:57

say still validation, but yes, an opportunity,

16:00

right? Because for validation, I really wanted

16:02

to make sure that it was clear

16:04

that that was not space technology. It

16:06

was just an educational tool. But I

16:09

wanted to get into getting a satellite

16:11

as quickly as possible. So I started

16:13

to look all of the satellite opportunities

16:15

that would be out there. And I

16:18

stumbled on a program from the European

16:20

Commission that had been running for nine

16:22

years. They had to deliver a lot

16:24

of satellites and it was apparent that

16:27

many of those satellites would not make

16:29

the launch loss in time. And I

16:31

started suggesting Opin Cosmos as a backup

16:33

company to try to deliver one of

16:35

those satellites, just as a backup, right?

16:38

And I think buying systems and so

16:40

on, they said, yeah, you can be

16:42

a backup if some of the satellites

16:44

and you make it in time. I'm

16:47

sure that no one expected to deliver

16:49

a specializing plan. We will be able

16:51

to launch you and there will be,

16:53

you know, payments associated to that and

16:56

so on. So we said yes, right,

16:58

as we were saying before, but that

17:00

yes was out of a lot of

17:02

pushing, I would dare to say. And

17:05

then I put also and I convinced

17:07

some of the brilliant people that I

17:09

had studied and worked with in the

17:11

past also to come and join up.

17:14

This was months. two or three of

17:16

the company, right? So imagine one, two

17:18

or three getting the first contract for

17:20

a satellite. I managed to actually, thanks

17:22

to that, attract top friends and talent

17:25

that had amazing careers in the space

17:27

sector. I'm so grateful that people like

17:29

Jordi, but Rita, Alicia, like, my co-founder,

17:31

really came and joined. And thanks to

17:34

all of that, we had a very,

17:36

very big challenge in front of us,

17:38

which was the liver satellite in six

17:40

months, so it could be in orbit.

17:43

Thankfully for that, we had been working

17:45

for years in ideating, or I have

17:47

particularly started preliminary designs of some of

17:49

these things, jar the alleged and early

17:52

team where the most talented would freak

17:54

out anyone, like how talented and capable

17:56

they were. And thank to all of

17:58

these things we manage actually to hit

18:01

every single delivery master and deliver the

18:03

first satellite of the entire program, which

18:05

has a huge milestone that enables us

18:07

to have like a huge recognition within

18:10

Europe, then the European Space Agency also

18:12

started getting, we won contracts with them,

18:14

with other customers, and one satellite brings

18:16

you to another, and here we are,

18:18

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18:21

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18:23

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Now back to today's 40-minute

19:12

mentor. It's

19:17

such an incredible story and I actually

19:20

I love the fact you focused on

19:22

getting that first customer and because so

19:24

many people you know start with raising

19:26

capital and actually just the added credibility

19:29

you'll have from those sorts of big

19:31

customers early on and the early commercial

19:33

traction is just so impressive and I

19:35

think really important in this climate that

19:38

we're in at the moment for other

19:40

founders to hear about that might be

19:42

listening to this and I guess to

19:44

build on that you reach profitability within

19:47

five years and clearly you're making revenues

19:49

very fast but to hit profitability so

19:51

quickly is hugely impressive and lots of

19:53

founders this and this I guess we've

19:56

shifted from that kind of growth at

19:58

all-cost mentality where all the founders will

20:00

work and all the scale-ups were working

20:02

with now while looking to growth. in

20:04

a sustainable way. So how did you

20:07

approach building a business in a more,

20:09

I guess, economically conscious way, a profitable

20:11

way, and what advice do you have

20:13

for others listening to this about how

20:16

you can get there and things to

20:18

think about to achieve that? Yeah, I

20:20

think. Way too often actually is economical

20:22

sustainability has not been a strong enough

20:25

point in many of the business plans

20:27

for startups and for companies and but

20:29

there is no right advice for this

20:31

right every company is different some approaches

20:34

work for some some others not again

20:36

our approach worked in our sector against

20:38

all lots it's probably the most capital

20:40

intensive sector one can think of it's

20:43

probably the one where developments and product

20:45

development takes the longest right but You

20:47

need to challenge the status quo if

20:49

you want to really disrupt and have

20:52

very impactful companies, right? And in a

20:54

way that your naiveness of the 26-year-old

20:56

that thought that this made sense and

20:58

why not or shared is what helped.

21:01

At the same time that naiveness was

21:03

balanced with, I think, common sense and

21:05

thinking, hey, I really need these to

21:07

be sustainable. Yeah, maybe if I moved

21:10

to the US, there would be some

21:12

investors I would put a lot of

21:14

capital on this, but what would that

21:16

mean for the purpose of the company?

21:19

Would I be able to sell this

21:21

technology back to Europe or everywhere in

21:23

the world easily? Would I be being

21:25

an European, like in the US, would

21:28

I be able actually to start a

21:30

space company? The space sector in the

21:32

US is very militarized, right? So all

21:34

of these things where... were there and

21:37

there was a condemnation of key decisions

21:39

I think in those early days that

21:41

led to us thinking we need to

21:43

build a company that is based on

21:45

sustainability and organic growth. Of course you

21:48

need to raise at moments and we

21:50

have done so and as you mentioned

21:52

successfully like last about 14 months ago

21:54

we raised a 50 million drowned but

21:57

we were already profitable so why do

21:59

you raise to be able? to spend

22:01

your offering to be able to scale,

22:03

to grow. And I don't have a

22:06

key advice in this context, but one

22:08

of the key things I would say

22:10

is like, think customer first, validate, grow

22:12

that traction with the customer because that

22:15

makes it so much easier to raise

22:17

from the right people and also to

22:19

raise that bit of evaluations, right? If

22:21

you are thinking about the raising topic,

22:24

having the commercial traction, it's. Absolutely key.

22:26

If you are thinking from a company

22:28

and a strategic purpose, if you don't

22:30

have a customer, don't have a company.

22:33

If you are not solving a problem

22:35

and you are not being useful to

22:37

someone. It might have some IP or

22:39

some technology, but that's very different to

22:42

having a problem-solving entity, which is what

22:44

I see as the most meaningful companies.

22:46

Totally agree. Thank you for sharing your

22:48

thoughts on that. We're going to come

22:51

back to fundraising because that's obviously a

22:53

topic. A lot of our listeners are

22:55

aspiring or current founders are a pain

22:57

point and a challenging thing to do

23:00

and you've done it very successfully. So

23:02

we'll talk about that in a minute.

23:04

But clearly there's been amazing milestones, significant

23:06

partnerships, great revenue. profitable growth and building

23:09

a very high performing team along the

23:11

way. I'd love to learn about that

23:13

transition from going to a very small

23:15

but high performing team to then scaling

23:17

a big team and doing things at

23:20

real scale in terms of advancing your

23:22

processes and systems and stuff. What did

23:24

you find most challenging in that going

23:26

from startup to scale up phase? And

23:29

do you have any thoughts on what

23:31

has made the biggest difference in sort

23:33

of... that transition, because it is, it's

23:35

often what can make and break a

23:38

company. So you've clearly done it really

23:40

well. I'd love to hear your reflections

23:42

on that. Yeah, I must say like,

23:44

we are stealing that journey, right? We

23:47

are still relatively small. People thinking that

23:49

we are 500, 600 people. We are

23:51

150 people. It's just truly exceptional individuals,

23:53

the ones we've been able to put

23:56

behind this purpose and therefore very effective

23:58

and therefore very performing and very productive,

24:00

right? still a relatively small team. And

24:02

I think that keeping things small in

24:05

the beginning is a massive advantage.

24:07

Because it's all about communication. And

24:09

if you are five and you

24:11

are all in one room, communication

24:14

happens like this, like your

24:16

brains are connected, right? If you

24:18

are 10, yes, still there, but maybe

24:20

you need to start setting some

24:22

processes. So if you are 50,

24:24

you definitely need structure. And in

24:26

each one of these. growth steps

24:28

that we have taken. Now with

24:30

150, I'm starting not to know

24:32

everyone, right? So I need to rely

24:34

on the relationships and flow of

24:37

information and the communications that the

24:39

other managers do to be able

24:41

to understand and have structure and

24:43

reporting. And this is just going

24:46

to go the way in that

24:48

direction. The key advice here is

24:50

focus on communication. Then the other

24:52

key advice I would say is like,

24:55

build joint sense of purpose. that

24:57

is like the northern star. So at Ovenkosmos,

24:59

you can ask anyone in the company. They

25:02

will all be very excited to tell

25:04

you that what makes them wake up early

25:06

in the morning or work really

25:08

hard on what we do is

25:10

that because we are building satellite

25:12

infrastructure that helps understand earth and

25:14

solve the global challenges, right? So

25:17

that purpose of helping provide data

25:19

to solve climate and seeing the

25:21

impact of that. I remember when

25:23

the... four months ago and there was the

25:25

catastrophe in Valencia where there was the

25:27

huge floods and four hours after the

25:29

floods we started taking images of

25:31

the situation being able that to share

25:34

in this case with the people and

25:36

some of the people in our company

25:38

were from the region right it's very

25:40

meaningful now it's to populate that to

25:42

the whole world right this is the

25:44

kind of impact that drives us and

25:46

having that shared sense of purpose on

25:49

why we really do this it's extremely

25:51

important. The last piece of advice on

25:53

something that has really helped us nourish

25:55

like a very high performing

25:57

theme while scaling. We don't

25:59

said... rules, fits rules to

26:01

the extent that we can until

26:03

we have certainty that those rules

26:06

are not going to change ever.

26:08

Right? So what we said with

26:10

our culture is frameworks, values, right?

26:13

And those values are the

26:15

framework, the concepts around

26:17

which people can take

26:19

decisions independently. So we have eight

26:21

values. Everyone in the company

26:24

knows them. We use them

26:26

constantly. humbleness, ambition. We use

26:28

them constantly in our day-to-day

26:30

discussions. So is this a

26:32

humble approach to learning about

26:34

this topic? Are we thinking

26:37

ambitiously enough? Is this effective?

26:39

And these words come up

26:41

constantly in the decision-making process.

26:43

And that liberates from having

26:45

to set of a fit set of rules.

26:47

You bring the agents into super high

26:50

caliber talented individuals that know in

26:52

some cases better than me or

26:54

anyone else on their specific topic

26:56

to bring that agency into them

26:58

you empower them and say hey

27:00

the only thing you have to

27:02

make sure that you work with is

27:04

this envelope of values so I steal

27:06

all of the actions that we take

27:08

as an organization are aligned and going

27:11

in the right direction so that's something

27:13

that has really helped so rather than

27:15

a lot of policies a lot of

27:18

control a lot of monitoring is like

27:20

hey well intentioned people with a clear

27:22

purpose that works within a system of

27:24

values that is coherent. Yeah, we're so powerful.

27:27

I love that. And we're going to

27:29

come on to talking about team culture

27:31

and hiring as well, because you've clearly

27:33

been very thoughtful about that, but also

27:36

give your team a lot of autonomy

27:38

to make decisions, which I think is

27:40

so important. I said we'd come back

27:42

to fundraising, and you've raised over $60

27:45

million, so you've done this very well

27:47

from top investors, like ETF partners, true

27:49

impact, and incredible sort of successful entrepreneurs

27:51

who have become investors like tablet. Heinrich

27:54

as the co-founder of Wise. So as

27:56

somebody that started focusing

27:58

more on commerciality... like the

28:00

good sort of getting that early traction

28:02

rather than thinking investor sort of fundraising

28:04

first. When did you decide was the

28:07

right time to go down the VC

28:09

route? Clearly you've mentioned very capital-intensive business

28:11

so that it was always going to

28:13

be a necessity at some point but

28:16

how did you make those decisions and

28:18

how have you approached the various funding

28:20

rounds that you've gone on? Any advice

28:22

I'm sure will be hugely valuable for

28:24

the people that are going through this

28:27

process at the moment? Yeah it's a

28:29

great question because... We haven't done it

28:31

in the most conventional way, I would

28:33

dare to say, right? So I like

28:36

to work on fundraising where I have

28:38

clarity on that, how those resources are

28:40

going to achieve a step up kind

28:42

of opportunity. If I don't have the

28:44

clarity on that, I would rather not

28:47

raise and keep sustainably growing. You can

28:49

only do that if you are in

28:51

the position of sustainability on your own

28:53

business model, right? So in a way

28:55

it's like. you don't raise out of

28:58

need, you raise out of the opportunity.

29:00

And this is easier to say than

29:02

to do because that means that you

29:04

need to be frugal at some of

29:07

the points before you have the right

29:09

product market feed and you need to

29:11

be very mindful on how you use

29:13

your resources and you prioritize very effectively

29:15

and you focus to keep that sustainable.

29:18

But then also you have to have

29:20

the... ability to see, okay, this is

29:22

a burden, is now there, is materializing,

29:24

is actually happening, is what enables me

29:27

to actually perform at that level. And

29:29

to put a very simple example, our

29:31

series A round, basically, was one of

29:33

those moments where I could see the

29:35

satellite contracts actually coming, I had to

29:38

deliver them in a particular period of

29:40

time, if I wasn't upgrading my facilities

29:42

and growing my team rapidly, I would

29:44

have failed at delivering at delivering. that

29:46

commitment, right? But the commitment was there,

29:49

the sustainability without those commitments would have

29:51

continued, right? So I was just like...

29:53

Okay, I really need to step up.

29:55

And in the last round, it was

29:58

exactly the same. And that's why probably

30:00

why our rounds have always been over

30:02

subscribed is because we've been patient and

30:04

very methodical, because understanding from a sustainable

30:06

perspective, what's a step change? And when

30:09

we see that step change clearly, and

30:11

the advantage that we can have from

30:13

resources, from technologies, from partners, because it's

30:15

not only about the raising, it's all

30:18

of the things together, right? Then we

30:20

say, that's the time. who wants to

30:22

join. And usually by that time we

30:24

have pretty solid financial metrics and performing

30:26

metrics that the investors love in that

30:29

differentiate us from potentially other people more

30:31

raising with a vision kind of approach.

30:33

Yeah, so inspiring to hear and I

30:35

think it's great advice for anyone going

30:37

through this process at the moment. So

30:40

thank you so much for sharing and

30:42

culture which is As a head-on to

30:44

my favorite topic, I'd love to know

30:46

how you've approached hiring with Open Cosmos

30:49

over the years. Clearly you started by

30:51

bringing in some of your friends from

30:53

your studies, but how has that evolved

30:55

over the years? And to ask a

30:57

difficult question alongside that, I'd love to

31:00

also know what you have found most

31:02

difficult when it comes to hiring. because

31:04

it is not an easy thing to

31:06

do. And I think I want to

31:09

give a holistic answer to this because

31:11

it's often people to look at the

31:13

amazing stuff, but it's a challenging thing

31:15

to do. So I'd love to hear

31:17

your experience. Yeah. We try to keep

31:20

things as simple as possible. So number

31:22

one thing to check is they have

31:24

a natural common sense of the purpose.

31:26

Do they really believe in why we

31:28

are doing? Is that something that they

31:31

would do no matter what? That's a

31:33

big important. point. Then second, are they

31:35

naturally aligned with our values? Like those

31:37

frameworks that I was talking about, is

31:40

it naturally, you can see the alignment

31:42

with those values. Do they use some

31:44

of these words in any way or

31:46

actually they have examples where that shines

31:48

through? Those are the first very early

31:51

kind of checks, right? Then the other

31:53

key important thing that we pay a

31:55

lot of attention of is like a

31:57

team of high performers bring more high

32:00

performers because smart people and good people

32:02

like to work with other smart people

32:04

and good people right so we don't

32:06

have an elitistic approach towards this it's

32:08

rather the opposite we don't care about

32:11

where people have studied or what they

32:13

have started and so on we care

32:15

what is number one the attitude towards

32:17

these challenges and the learning that everyone

32:19

no matter how smart they are they

32:22

have to do always, right? How fast

32:24

can they learn? What's the attitude? How

32:26

fast can they actually learn? And then

32:28

second, yeah, of course, what kind of

32:31

skills, experience, or background they might have

32:33

that might alleviate that learning process or

32:35

actually catapult it, right? But that's the

32:37

third thing. The first one is attitude

32:39

and speed of learning, because if people

32:42

have that and you put them in

32:44

an environment of other high performers that

32:46

also want to thrive along, magic happens,

32:48

right? Actually, you need to contain all

32:51

of that horsepower, that things moving in

32:53

a single focused direction, right? And that's

32:55

why the purpose check is important to

32:57

do first, right? Because if they have

32:59

that northern star and they pull in

33:02

that direction, I actually want them to

33:04

find the solutions to create and to

33:06

empower them to come up with better

33:08

solutions than the one that anyone. that

33:10

he might have already found. That's part

33:13

one of our core values, which is

33:15

this humfulness of being willing to learn

33:17

constantly from anyone in order to pursue

33:19

that decommission. So yeah, that's the number

33:22

one thing that I would say that

33:24

we do particularly well at open cosmos

33:26

and the recruitment that we're bringing people

33:28

alongside with us. So one of the

33:30

things that I did from in the

33:33

past is that Because of what I've

33:35

explained before, that you keep things sustainable,

33:37

then you have a huge opportunity that

33:39

comes, and then you raise the resources

33:42

and you bring all of the talent,

33:44

that means that sometimes you need to

33:46

bring a lot of talent all in

33:48

one go. You know what I mean?

33:50

Like very aggressively. So when you are

33:53

in this very fortunate step. changes, like

33:55

you move from second lake to premier

33:57

lake kind of thing, right? You need

33:59

to on board and to bring people

34:01

without cutting corners and all of these

34:04

processes very quickly. And like everything in

34:06

life, if you have a lot of

34:08

volume, the probabilities of some of that

34:10

turning out to be bad is higher

34:13

than if you have a smaller volume

34:15

and you can. would pay a lot

34:17

more attention to that. And that's something

34:19

that I completely, the probabilities of this

34:21

and the dynamics of this, something that

34:24

I completely underestimated. When I did our

34:26

first raise and I brought what I

34:28

thought was super smart, really talented people,

34:30

and sometimes I feel we caught corners

34:33

on some of these culture purposes and

34:35

various things just because of how talented

34:37

and capable they were or aquariums. And

34:39

that bad fire, usually, because it goes

34:41

in detriment of some of these strong.

34:44

culture driven and performance driven attitudes that

34:46

we want to nourish in the company

34:48

right and it's like everything like when

34:50

you have something going wrong usually spreads

34:52

faster than the good things it's like

34:55

when people get ill I don't know

34:57

you get ill you're going to the

34:59

underground and all of a sudden you

35:01

get a lot of more people ill

35:04

right so something similar happened when there

35:06

is something that goes wrong with the

35:08

team it's and you need to be

35:10

constantly reminding of the good things, what

35:12

is important, why not, and do the

35:15

hard thing of also saying you need

35:17

a mistake, this is not the right

35:19

place for you. I particularly struggle a

35:21

lot doing that because I don't give

35:24

up easily on people. I particularly people

35:26

that comes on board with the mission,

35:28

and I'm like, let's find a way

35:30

for you to correct that, or let

35:32

me support you with changing that. And

35:35

yeah, that's something that probably I'm still

35:37

learning on how to do and to

35:39

be more effective doing. Fortunately I have

35:41

an amazing team around me that is

35:43

very good also at doing the right

35:46

things for the organization so obviously all

35:48

of these things are not single point

35:50

of failure but yeah that's our experience

35:52

with regard to recruitment and what's probably

35:55

the hardest. Yeah, I really appreciate you

35:57

sharing that. I think it's important for

35:59

everyone to hear alongside all the great

36:01

talent you've hired. You've also made mistakes

36:03

and that is part of founder life

36:06

and I don't know anybody that gets

36:08

hiring 100% right, but being thoughtful about

36:10

it really focusing on value alignment. These

36:12

are the things that can make a

36:15

real difference. And you've built a really

36:17

diverse team as well across different countries

36:19

and cultures, which is for me a

36:21

hugely important thing. The best companies are

36:23

the most diverse companies and to do

36:26

that. successfully. Not enough tech companies are

36:28

like that and I think it says

36:30

a lot about your leadership and also

36:32

the culture you've created that is able

36:34

to attract diverse talent and obviously retain

36:37

them and make it an inclusive culture.

36:39

We're kind of getting towards the end

36:41

of the interview, but there's still some

36:43

questions I would love to cover and

36:46

linked to hiring. I should really ask,

36:48

you know, if it was recording this

36:50

at the start of 2025, what are

36:52

your big hiring plans for the year

36:54

ahead? What do you look for? You

36:57

know, for people listening to this saying,

36:59

I really want to work for open

37:01

cosmos. What exciting things have you got

37:03

when it comes to hiring and what

37:06

do you look for in people? What

37:08

tips can you give them to anyone

37:10

that wants to anyone that wants to

37:12

reach to reach out? Yeah, no, it's

37:14

super exciting times now adopting customers because

37:17

we have two products super consolidated, having

37:19

like an amazing product market feed and

37:21

one product which is the data cosmo

37:23

that has tremendous potential for all of

37:25

the analytic solutions and so on to

37:28

go for the downstream. So it feels

37:30

it's one of these moments where it's

37:32

going to be another step change in

37:34

the organization and everyone that is part

37:37

of this, these moments just has to

37:39

learn and grow so far in their

37:41

careers in their careers in their capabilities

37:43

in those capabilities also around us in

37:45

those geographies. But I think it's a

37:48

very, very attractive moment to join the

37:50

company. The other thing that makes it

37:52

very attractive is that we are in

37:54

four countries now, as you have mentioned,

37:57

so UK, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and we

37:59

are nourishing those poles of talent and

38:01

capabilities also around us in those geographies.

38:03

But something that I think is going

38:05

to happen in 2025, so we are

38:08

going to go also. beyond Europe. So

38:10

we are going to move to new

38:12

geographies and that's going to bring a

38:14

new dimension of diversity and capability and

38:16

talent into the company. You've mentioned how

38:19

diverse we are in terms of where

38:21

people come from when working at a

38:23

bank. That's right. That's our secret weapon.

38:25

Because to be very honest, like we

38:28

do a lot of space technology and

38:30

space data is international market by nature.

38:32

So you have people from those places.

38:34

You understand a lot better. The dynamics,

38:36

the culture, what matters, what are the

38:39

real. And then you can relate better

38:41

to customers in those geographies if you

38:43

have the person from there living and

38:45

avoiding that. And that aligns also all

38:48

of the team, the purpose because they

38:50

see the impact not only global in

38:52

an aerial well, but locally where they

38:54

are having that impact. And this is

38:56

just so rewarding and so, so beautiful.

38:59

I feel really fortunate that we've been

39:01

able actually to engage so many talented

39:03

people from so many different places in

39:05

the world. And so it's a real.

39:07

unfair advantage in front of anyone else

39:10

wanted to do business in this sector.

39:12

Well, everything you've said I'm sure is

39:14

going to get a lot more applications

39:16

on the back of this podcast because

39:19

it really sounds like a very special

39:21

culture. Obviously a hugely impactful mission and

39:23

yeah, clearly great leadership. So thank you

39:25

for sharing that. Before we get to

39:27

our two wrap-up questions. climate change and

39:30

the climate crisis is top of mind

39:32

for so many of us at the

39:34

moment. Rightly so, because it's an existential

39:36

threat to our livelihoods. And you've already

39:39

shared some real tangible examples of how

39:41

open cost was playing a really important

39:43

role in the fight. But this year

39:45

ahead, we start 2025 with wildfires across

39:47

LA, destroying homes and people losing their

39:50

lives. It is so front of mind.

39:52

So what? call to action do you

39:54

have for our listeners as somebody that

39:56

really cares about this topic? Is there

39:58

anything you want to leave them with

40:01

in terms of a final message on

40:03

that point? Yes, absolutely. That they look

40:05

at data and satellite data as a

40:07

tool for them to build... amazing business

40:10

or amazing solutions to these problems. I

40:12

feel that space technology and the space

40:14

infrastructure is exactly at the same point

40:16

right now that the computer was probably

40:18

40 years ago when the use of

40:21

the PC and the emergence of the

40:23

internet catalyzed, you know, the growth of

40:25

a lot of application solutions for better

40:27

communication between us, for understanding, for especially

40:30

for having this podcast, right? The same

40:32

is being enabled right now with satellite

40:34

global data and with the use of

40:36

artificial intelligence, data processing techniques and capabilities,

40:38

we can come to understand reality based

40:41

on these data. So I would encourage

40:43

them to look at space technology and

40:45

data, not as something fancy and out

40:47

of another world, but actually just that

40:49

is there available to them, like they

40:52

have a computer or they have a

40:54

mobile phone. Amazing. Thank you so much.

40:56

We're at our wrap-up questions. I've loved

40:58

our conversation, Raphael. Thank you again. But

41:01

this is 40-minute mentor, so I have

41:03

to ask if you could be mentored

41:05

by anyone, dead or alive, who would

41:07

it be and why? I would love

41:09

to know a plan from Jason at

41:12

India. I think he's just a phenomenal

41:14

leader, founder. Yeah, if you could mentor

41:16

that would be a dream mentor to

41:18

be honest. Okay, we'll put it out

41:21

into the world. Who knows? One day

41:23

I'd love to get him on the

41:25

podcast. So if that ever happens, I'll

41:27

put you guys in touch. Finally, what

41:29

is one piece of advice that could

41:32

be career or life advice that you'd

41:34

like to leave our lessons with today?

41:36

There to take a first step. Usually

41:38

things that matter are not clear on

41:40

how they are going to happen, but

41:43

if we don't take a first step

41:45

to... believe that we can make them

41:47

happen, they will never. So sometimes I

41:49

find both in the professional and in

41:52

the personal domain, people try to want

41:54

to have like everything sorted out before

41:56

they take the first step and it's

41:58

the other way around. You need to

42:00

know what matters and take a step

42:03

even blindly sometimes in that. and don't

42:05

give up. Yeah, it's a really inspiring

42:07

advice to end an inspiring conversation. I've

42:09

loved every second of that, hugely impressed

42:12

by everything you've built, love your mission,

42:14

love your culture, and I'm super excited

42:16

for what sounds like it's gonna be

42:18

an epic year, so wishing you all

42:20

the very best from the JVM team,

42:23

the 40-minute mental team and all our

42:25

listeners, and thank you so much for

42:27

sharing your story and your wise mentorship

42:29

with us all. Thank you James. We've

42:31

used to have to. Thank you so

42:34

much. Thank you so much for tuning

42:36

into today's episode. I really hope that

42:38

you found it useful and inspiring. If

42:40

we have left any questions unanswered or

42:43

if you have any feedback or guest

42:45

recommendations for future series, then please make

42:47

sure you get in touch on info

42:49

at jmMC.co.uk.uk. I often get asked by

42:51

listeners how you can help us spread

42:54

the word about 40 Minute Mental. There

42:56

are two simple ways you can help.

42:58

Firstly, share this episode on your preferred

43:00

social media platform and LinkedIn is probably

43:03

where I'm most likely to see it.

43:05

And you can also leave us a

43:07

review on either Apple podcast or Spotify

43:09

or Spotify. Every share on social media

43:11

and review left on the podcast platforms

43:14

really helps us to get 40 Minute

43:16

Mental in front of new audiences and

43:18

share the power of mentorship even further.

43:20

Thank you so much for your ongoing

43:22

support and I look forward to seeing

43:25

you again next Wednesday for even more

43:27

pocket-sized mentorship.