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start streaming now. Welcome

1:01

back to post-mortem. I'm

1:03

your host, Anne-Marie

1:06

Green, and today we're

1:08

looking at the case of

1:10

Melissa Kuyozinsky. She was

1:12

a daycare worker who

1:15

was convicted of murder

1:17

in 2009 in the

1:19

death of a 16-month-old

1:22

baby boy, Benjamin Kingen.

1:24

Now Melissa remains in

1:26

prison and she's already

1:29

served 16 of the

1:31

31-year sentence that she

1:33

received, but she's long

1:36

insisted that she is innocent.

1:38

So today joining me is 48

1:40

hours correspondent Aaron Moriarty who has

1:43

been reporting on this case for

1:45

more than a decade and producer

1:47

Stephanie Slifer who also worked on

1:49

this case with us. Welcome

1:51

ladies. We love being here. This

1:54

is one of those very complicated

1:56

cases so an opportunity to talk

1:58

more about it. I'm in. Yes.

2:00

Thank you so much for having

2:03

us. And Stephanie, I want to

2:05

thank you, because I know you're

2:07

feeling a little under the weather,

2:09

and you still made it in

2:12

for this podcast, so I really,

2:14

really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah,

2:16

it's an important case, so we

2:18

definitely wanted to be here to

2:21

talk about it. And remember, if

2:23

you haven't listened to this episode

2:25

of 48 hours yet, you can

2:28

go find it. You can find

2:30

the full audio just below this

2:32

episode in your podcast feed. So

2:34

go take a listen, and then

2:37

come on back so we can

2:39

talk about this case. All right,

2:41

so Aaron, 48 hours first began

2:43

reporting on Melissa's case in 2014.

2:46

That's about five years after Benjamin's

2:48

death. And almost three years after

2:50

Melissa was actually convicted of his

2:52

murder, when you first interviewed Melissa,

2:55

was there anything that stood out

2:57

to you about her? What were

2:59

your impressions of her? Well... I'm

3:02

going to tell you, Amory, that

3:04

I encountered something with this case

3:06

I had never encountered before. Right

3:08

away I saw issues. I started

3:11

asking Melissa questions and I realized

3:13

she wasn't quite understanding what I

3:15

was asking. Now, I had known

3:17

that she had cognitive issues that

3:20

came up during the trial. and

3:22

later, more recently, she had actually

3:24

been diagnosed with borderline intellectual functioning.

3:26

And so knowing that, and seeing

3:29

her in this interview with me,

3:31

I kept thinking, oh my gosh,

3:33

if she's having trouble understanding me,

3:35

what went on in that interrogation

3:38

room? Did she really understand what

3:40

was at stake? What they were

3:42

asking? What she needed to tell

3:45

them? That's what came to my

3:47

mind after interviewing her. So in

3:49

fact in the hour we see

3:51

a portion of this very long

3:54

intense police interrogation, Melissa repeatedly claims,

3:56

and we're talking about more than

3:58

60 times, that she did not

4:00

hurt Benjamin, but then after nine

4:03

hours. she admits to throwing him

4:05

forcefully on the floor. So I

4:07

want to play an extended clip

4:09

of that interrogation. We all know

4:12

what's going to happen when something

4:14

gets frustrated happens to everybody. Yeah.

4:16

We think in this situation the

4:19

other babies are screaming, crying, crying,

4:21

whatever. You're taking care of them

4:23

by yourself. You've been in your

4:25

hands. He starts acting up and

4:28

up. And you get

4:30

mad at them and you throw

4:32

them on the floor. Yeah, and

4:35

the chair will go too. You

4:37

throw on the floor? Yeah. Where

4:39

did this head hit on the

4:42

floor? Right in the center. I

4:44

know. I'm kind of hit like

4:47

right on the, between the tile

4:49

and the carpet actually. Okay. Really

4:51

hard. Yeah. You know what, I've

4:54

got to point out here that

4:56

much of what she says first

4:59

came from the detectives. The detectives

5:01

are the ones who first say,

5:03

throw on the floor. And they

5:06

say to Melissa, we're hearing from

5:08

the pathologist that there's a skull

5:10

fracture. So these detectives are trying,

5:13

at least it appears from this

5:15

interrogation, to get her to come

5:18

up with a scenario which... they

5:20

come up with on their own.

5:22

You can hear them come up

5:25

with it. That would explain a

5:27

skull fracture. But then the problem

5:30

with that is now we know

5:32

all these years later that Ben

5:34

Kingin may not have sustained a

5:37

skull fracture because these clear x-rays

5:39

were found years after the trial

5:41

and the defense hired a pediatric

5:44

neuroradiologist who looked at those clear

5:46

x-rays and said there is no

5:49

skull fracture here. And if a

5:51

skull fracture existed... I would see

5:53

it in these clear x-rays. Aaron

5:56

interviewed a false confession expert, Dr.

5:58

Saul. Carson and he points it

6:01

out to us that if in

6:03

fact Ben didn't sustain a skull

6:05

fracture that's what he refers to

6:08

as a false fact that could

6:10

have tainted this entire confession. When

6:12

Melissa tried to give other explanations

6:15

they won't accept what she's saying.

6:17

They want her... to say what

6:20

they believe happened. You know, an

6:22

expert also said that because of

6:24

her low IQ, both Salkas and

6:27

other experts who looked at this

6:29

said that she may not have

6:32

even understood really what was going

6:34

on in that room, starting from

6:36

the beginning, when they read her

6:39

rights, when you watch them read

6:41

her the rights, she just says,

6:43

sure, yes. Did she understand them?

6:46

We don't know. Right, because recently

6:48

the defense hired a psychologist and

6:51

psychiatrist from Yale who evaluated Melissa

6:53

and she scored at a 4.8

6:55

grade level in sentence comprehension. So

6:58

that really raises questions as to

7:00

whether she even knew what was

7:02

going on or that she had

7:05

the right to leave or to

7:07

ask for an attorney. Well, so

7:10

let me ask you about the

7:12

attorney and I once again was

7:14

hearing Aaron's voice in my head.

7:17

She always says, no matter what,

7:19

ask for an attorney, innocent or

7:22

otherwise, always ask for an attorney

7:24

first. And it seems like, you

7:26

know, Melissa's parents clearly are very,

7:29

very, very invested and were very

7:31

involved. At this point, do you

7:33

know if anyone intervened? What we

7:36

understand is her parents were looking

7:38

for her, but remember, Melissa was

7:41

an adult. And Melissa... thought she

7:43

was helping police or at least

7:45

that's what she told us. Because

7:48

I did ask her, why did

7:50

you talk to them? She said

7:53

that she loved Ben Kingen and

7:55

was devastated by his death and

7:57

she wanted to help. Right. Stephanie,

8:00

you brought up the x-rays. That

8:02

was the other, oh my gosh,

8:04

kind of component to this hour.

8:07

Big part of the case, these

8:09

x-rays that were given to Melissa's

8:12

original defense attorney, Paul Deluca, before

8:14

the start of the trial. In

8:16

2015, and we're talking about four

8:19

years after the conviction, Melissa's father

8:21

says that he got a mysterious.

8:24

anonymous phone call telling him that

8:26

there were clearer x-rays and that

8:28

these x-rays were actually the coroner's

8:31

office and that they were never

8:33

turned over to the defense. Then

8:35

in 2016, Dr. Robert Zimmerman, who

8:38

is a pediatric neuroradiologist, testifies at

8:40

an evidentiary hearing that those x-rays

8:43

show no skull fracture at all.

8:45

This is a bombshell revelation. I

8:47

am curious, has the person who

8:50

is behind that anonymous phone call,

8:52

has that person ever been identified?

8:55

Can I just first tell you

8:57

why those x-rays matter so much?

8:59

As Stephanie had mentioned, whether there

9:02

was a skull fracture or not

9:04

is really, really crucial to this

9:06

case. And at trial, according to

9:09

the prosecution, only x-rays they have

9:11

were dark, they hindered over the

9:14

defense, those x-rays were taken during

9:16

autopsy, but that pathologist as a

9:18

trial testified that he couldn't read

9:21

them, that they were readable. So

9:23

none of the experts. neither the

9:26

defense or the state say that

9:28

they saw clear x-rays. And as

9:30

Stephanie mentioned, we now know that

9:33

at least one well-regarded expert says

9:35

that if there was a skull

9:37

fracture, it would be on that

9:40

clear x-ray. And they're not seeing

9:42

it on that x-ray. So imagine

9:45

that that was not at trial

9:47

and didn't come out until this

9:49

anonymous phone call. The assistant coroner

9:52

is named Paul Foreman. He's the

9:54

one that actually took the x-rays

9:57

and he says that they were

9:59

clear when he took them. So

10:01

there's some... speculation that maybe he's

10:04

the one that made the anonymous

10:06

call we don't know for sure.

10:08

So Aaron you asked Paul Foreman

10:11

whether or not he was the

10:13

one let's play that sound. Are

10:16

you the one who made that

10:18

anonymous phone call? No I did

10:20

not. I mean will you swear

10:23

to me you weren't the caller?

10:25

A lot of people might think

10:28

I made that call. I mean

10:30

obviously somebody let Paul Calyozinsky know

10:32

those x-rays existed the bottom line

10:35

is... clear x-rays did exist on

10:37

the coroner's computer. I just want

10:39

to say it's interesting the fact

10:42

that this information came to light

10:44

through an anonymous call to begin

10:47

with. because that means somebody knew

10:49

that these x-rays had been withheld.

10:51

Now, the prosecutors have questioned whether

10:54

Paul Calusinski and Melissa's father really

10:56

did receive an anonymous call. They

10:59

tried to look into his phone

11:01

records. They said they couldn't find

11:03

proof of it. But Paul Calusinski

11:06

maintains today that he got that

11:08

anonymous call. And that's how all

11:10

of this came to light. I

11:13

mean, knowing everything that we know,

11:15

right, that there were actually clearer

11:18

x-rays, can you feel confident in

11:20

the verdict from this trial? Well,

11:22

this is when you're talking about...

11:25

what are the rules of the

11:27

court system and what your heart

11:30

says? So the state still stands

11:32

by the idea that there's a

11:34

skull fracture, although there are a

11:37

lot of individuals who, including the

11:39

pediatric neuroradiologist, Dr. Zimmerman, who says

11:41

if there was a skull fracture,

11:44

you'd be able to see it

11:46

on those x-rays and they're not

11:49

there. So that's still a big

11:51

important issue. And, you know, frankly,

11:53

whether there can still be confidence

11:56

in the verdict from trial, it

11:58

is a question for, you know,

12:01

the Illinois governor, J.B. Pritzker, to

12:03

think about, as well as the

12:05

Lake County State's attorney, Eric Reinhart,

12:08

you know, you'll remember from our

12:10

broadcast that Ryan Hart recommended to

12:12

Melissa's defense attorney to hire these

12:15

forensic computer experts to get to

12:17

the bottom of the discrepancy between

12:20

the x-rays. And these experts found

12:22

that the x-rays were manipulated using

12:24

a software tool used to view

12:27

x-rays. And their analysis showed that

12:29

this manipulation was done. on the

12:32

coroner's office computer. Therefore, they put

12:34

in a report that they believe

12:36

the state was responsible for manipulating

12:39

the x-rays. The state, meaning either

12:41

somebody from the prosecutor's office or

12:43

somebody from the coroner's office. You

12:46

had to be in the coroner's

12:48

office to get access to this,

12:51

according to those experts. So we

12:53

know that those experts presented these

12:55

findings to Eric Reinhart in a

12:58

meeting. And what has happened since

13:00

then? We don't know everything that's

13:03

gone on behind the scenes, but

13:05

we do know that after that

13:07

Eric Reinhart wrote a letter to

13:10

the governor's prisoner review board opposing

13:12

Melissa's clemency. But never dealt with

13:14

these findings that someone may have

13:17

manipulated evidence that was not given

13:19

at trial. He never even addresses

13:22

that. Welcome

13:31

back. So police quickly focused on

13:33

Melissa Kuyzenski, but another woman named

13:36

Brenda came up in police interviews

13:38

with Melissa's coworkers. One of those

13:40

daycare workers told police that months

13:42

prior to Benjamin's death, she heard

13:44

that he had thrown his head

13:46

back in a crib while Brenda

13:49

was putting him down, and then

13:51

the next day, Brenda quit. The

13:53

defense could not track her down.

13:55

But incredibly... 48 hours did. Your

13:57

team did. How did you? Stephanie,

14:00

how did you find Brenda and

14:02

how did you convince her to

14:04

sit down? Well, it's a crazy

14:06

story, Anne-Marie. I think it started

14:08

with me just going down a

14:11

rabbit hole one day trying to

14:13

find this Brenda. And I found

14:15

a couple of different Brenda's with

14:17

that same last name. I started

14:19

calling. I think I called the

14:22

wrong Brenda multiple times. This woman

14:24

was like, please stop. It's not

14:26

me. It's not me. It's not

14:28

me. But finally, I thought I

14:30

found the right one, but she

14:33

was not calling me back. And

14:35

I decided to run her name

14:37

through like the criminal court case

14:39

look up in the county where

14:41

I knew she lived. And it

14:44

came up that she was supposed

14:46

to appear for a traffic ticket

14:48

hearing. and the traffic ticket hearing

14:50

happens to be during the week

14:52

that we were scheduled to go

14:55

there already. We were going to

14:57

conduct other interviews on the case.

14:59

So it was kind of like

15:01

the stars were aligning and we

15:03

decided we're going to just try

15:06

to go to the traffic ticket

15:08

hearing. I mean we were obviously

15:10

catching her totally off guard there.

15:12

But she ended up talking to

15:14

us. I went up to her

15:17

and I asked her to speak

15:19

with us and she did not

15:21

want to initially, but I said

15:23

sit down, we'll just shoot you

15:25

from behind. So viewers were not

15:28

able to see her face. We

15:30

agreed to that and we also

15:32

agreed to only call her by

15:34

her first name Brenda. But it

15:36

was helpful. It really was helpful

15:39

to know that there's still a

15:41

lot of questions about what happened.

15:43

in that daycare center before Melissa

15:45

even worked there. I hope people

15:47

realize it's undisputed that Ben Kingen

15:49

had some kind of injury just

15:52

could be a bump in the

15:54

head or could be more serious

15:56

than that. But that's not disputed

15:58

at all and it happened in

16:00

the daycare center. It happened three

16:03

months before he died and Melissa

16:05

was not working there at the

16:07

time. So that's why that's significant.

16:09

And I guess we should remind

16:11

everyone that Brenda, despite what the

16:14

other coworkers had said, that Brenda

16:16

was never charged with anything. Yes,

16:18

you're absolutely right that she's never

16:20

been charged with harming Ben accidentally

16:22

or intentionally, but we felt it

16:25

was important to talk to her

16:27

because it was a lingering question

16:29

in the case. You know, we

16:31

knew that her name had been

16:33

brought up in connection to this.

16:36

prior injury that Ben sustained, the

16:38

defense has long argued that that

16:40

prior injury caused his death. So

16:42

we just wanted to see what

16:44

we could find out about it,

16:47

see if Brenda remembered anything about

16:49

Ben bumping his head in her

16:51

car. Right, right. And I think

16:53

it was a good opportunity for

16:55

her because her name is being

16:58

bounced around, at least by the

17:00

coworkers, to say, this is what

17:02

I remember. And I don't remember

17:04

anything happening. Yes, right the daycare

17:06

where Melissa and Brenda worked was

17:09

actually shut down by state authorities

17:11

This is shortly after Benjamin's death.

17:13

I'm wondering were there any further

17:15

investigations? Did anyone look into whether

17:17

or not there had been other

17:20

problems at this daycare? So there

17:22

was several daycare workers that were

17:24

interviewed by police in the wake

17:26

of Ben's death And as part

17:28

of our new report, during the

17:31

research phase, we were going through

17:33

a lot of those police reports.

17:35

And there was something that stuck

17:37

out. There was a daycare worker

17:39

who told police that at one

17:42

point she witnessed another child, not

17:44

Ben, fall off a changing table

17:46

at the daycare. and that the

17:48

child's parents were allowed to about

17:50

the incident and told he fell

17:52

over while seated on the floor.

17:55

And the reason that stuck out

17:57

is because, you know, in interviews

17:59

with Aaron, Melissa's defense attorney has

18:01

suggested that the daycare was not

18:03

honest with Ben's parents about that

18:06

old injury months before his death.

18:08

So there's that. Do we know

18:10

ultimately why it was shut down?

18:12

It was largely... due to Ben's

18:14

death there, but there was a

18:17

lot of issues that were identified

18:19

at that daycare throughout the investigation.

18:21

Wow. The latest hour is 48,

18:23

fourth installment on Melissa's case. And

18:25

I know that your team will

18:28

continue to follow with all kinds

18:30

of updates, but where are we

18:32

now in this case? What are

18:34

the next steps? I do want

18:36

to point out why we stay

18:39

on these stories. If you're going

18:41

to properly report on it, legal

18:43

cases like these, these complicated medical

18:45

issues that involve possibly a coerced

18:47

confession, that takes time. So if

18:50

you're going to really report on

18:52

these issues, you've got to stay

18:54

on it. And so I know

18:56

this probably won't be our last

18:58

installment. We're waiting to see what...

19:01

the governor's office decides, what the

19:03

governor decides. At this moment, there

19:05

has been a confidential recommendation made

19:07

by the prisoner review board, but

19:09

there's no deadline for the governor.

19:12

And before Melissa filed for clemency,

19:14

she had what's called a habeas

19:16

corpus petition pending in federal court.

19:18

Now that was filed in 2019.

19:20

It sat there with no ruling

19:23

for five years. due to a

19:25

backlog, we think, partly due to

19:27

COVID, possibly. So Melissa's defense attorney

19:29

decided to withdraw that petition and

19:31

go after clemency instead. Now, if

19:34

the clemency does not work out,

19:36

they'll have to go back and

19:38

refile in federal court. But she'll

19:40

have to start all over again.

19:42

That breaks my heart. We see

19:45

this over and over again. It

19:47

just takes a long time. And

19:49

I understand why Melissa's defense attorney

19:51

went this route, but this is

19:53

a long shot too. Yeah. But

19:55

Anne-Marie, I should point out that

19:58

at the hearing, and we were

20:00

all touched by it, Ben's parents.

20:02

his mother specifically, but his dad

20:04

was there as well, spoke. They

20:06

believe he was murdered by Melissa.

20:09

They spoke very movingly about how

20:11

hard it's been for them. Ben

20:13

was a twin, and they

20:15

mentioned how difficult it was

20:18

for his surviving twin sister

20:20

to deal with it. So

20:22

that is an important issue

20:24

that the governor will weigh as

20:26

well and may also play a

20:28

part in. where this case goes.

20:30

I mean that's what's so hard.

20:33

There are the facts that sometimes

20:35

are hard to get to and

20:37

then there are the emotions in

20:39

these cases. Sometimes justice is somewhere

20:41

in between. Absolutely. I thought

20:43

it was really important to

20:46

show Benjamin's family. This was

20:48

devastating for everyone that loved

20:50

him. And you also obviously

20:52

talked to Melissa's parents and

20:54

they have worked tirelessly to

20:57

free their daughter. and they

20:59

actually have her bedroom exactly

21:01

the same way that it was.

21:03

What was it like speaking to

21:05

them and visiting that that

21:08

bedroom? Yeah, so Melissa's father

21:10

has really been consumed by

21:13

this case. He's really dedicated

21:15

his entire life to trying

21:17

to free his daughter. And,

21:19

you know, Crystal, Melissa's sister

21:21

tells us in the episode

21:24

how her parents had to

21:26

sell a lot of their

21:28

belongings. We know that her

21:30

father had a bait and tackle

21:33

shop. He sold that years

21:35

ago in an effort to help

21:37

Melissa. So it's just a sad

21:39

case all around. Well, remember,

21:42

Melissa is their baby. And so

21:44

they feel they've lost. even though

21:46

they can visit her, you know,

21:49

they've lost a child too, they

21:51

feel great pain. They never had

21:53

a lot of financial resources to

21:55

begin with, and so they have

21:57

spent probably close to everything. they

22:00

have. They live very, very modestly.

22:02

They still have faith, which is

22:04

astounding to me. They believe she

22:06

will come home, and that's why

22:08

they're keeping her room the same.

22:10

They want her to come back.

22:13

They have her artwork. She's a

22:15

wonderful artist. She really is. And

22:17

so they have her artwork. on

22:19

the walls and they have not

22:21

lost faith and you know that's

22:23

that's hard because we see them

22:25

and then we can leave but

22:28

but we know they're left with

22:30

that heartbreak. Yeah all of them

22:32

you know the Kingin family and

22:34

the Calusinscape family. Yeah absolutely. Well,

22:36

it's a great hour and I

22:38

know you guys are going to

22:41

stay on this case. I'm curious

22:43

to see how things continue to

22:45

develop and unfold as this case

22:47

moves forward. So Stephanie, Aaron, thank

22:49

you very much. Thank you, honestly.

22:51

Thank you for letting us talk

22:53

about this. Yeah, thank

22:55

you so much. So,

22:57

once again everyone, if

22:59

you like this series

23:01

post-mortem, please rate and

23:04

review 48 hours on

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