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staff, start your free to today. Podcast

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Plus on Apple This is

0:49

99 start your free I'm Roman Mars.

0:51

This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.

0:53

Look, we've all got We've all got

0:55

problems. Sometimes your problem is

0:57

a massive roadblock in your life, or

0:59

maybe it's this little thing that

1:01

quietly annoys you you you've learned to to

1:04

put up with. up But regardless of

1:06

the size of your problem, it

1:08

would be so great be so someone would

1:10

just fix it for you you. not

1:12

just fix fix it. Hyperfix it. On

1:14

his new On his new podcast,

1:16

host Alex Goldman will get to the bottom

1:18

of your problem, no matter how big

1:21

or small, If if there is a bottom,

1:23

may vary. You may remember Alex

1:25

as the former co -host of of reply-all. When

1:27

a a 99 PI listener couldn't play

1:29

the show on his Mazda car

1:31

stereo. Alex and his super tech support

1:33

team helped us track down the

1:35

issue and create a special Mazda friendly

1:38

podcast feed, which we still published

1:40

to you today. you So imagine what

1:42

he could do for you. you. Today

1:44

we're playing a playing a great story

1:46

from in his show. It's very much a

1:48

design story He He why there's no

1:50

door in a place where there

1:52

really should be a door door. never

1:54

shop for sour cream cream shredded mozzarella

1:56

the same way the same way. Again, enjoy.

2:00

Hi, I'm Alex Goldman. This is

2:02

hyper-fixed. On this show, listeners write

2:04

in with their problems, big and

2:06

small, and I solve them. Or,

2:08

I mean, at least I try

2:11

to. And if I don't, at

2:13

least have a good reason why

2:15

I can't. This week, Dylan's supermarket

2:17

cold case. As

2:27

a person who is close to the

2:30

grocery store, do you find yourself going

2:32

like... Oh, every day. Really? You're there

2:34

every day. Every day I pop over

2:36

there. Milk, you know, to this morning

2:38

I need milk. Boom. This is Dylan.

2:40

He lives across the street from a

2:42

safe way. And as you heard, he

2:44

goes there every day. What are you

2:46

often getting at the store? Man, definitely

2:48

milk and cereal, cereal, bagels, all the

2:50

breakfast food to eat every meal of

2:52

the day. What kind of cereal do

2:55

you rock with? Today it was Captain

2:57

Crunch, but normally it's like grandflakes. And

2:59

because Dylan is making so many visits

3:01

to Safeway, he's constantly confronted by this

3:03

thing. This thing that most people probably

3:05

wouldn't even question. But Dylan says he's

3:07

been thinking about it for a long

3:09

time, actually, and he just didn't have

3:11

anyone to ask about it. Until I

3:13

came along. So I can't quite remember

3:15

what I sent you guys, but the

3:18

gist of it is like, you go

3:20

to the grocery store, and it's... Unlike

3:22

every other place on earth, their fringes

3:24

don't always have like doors, right? And

3:26

you would think that from just like

3:28

an energy perspective, you would put a

3:30

door in front of your fridge to

3:32

not lose all your energy you're putting

3:34

into cooling it. Okay, this is a

3:36

great point. It's one that I make

3:38

to my kids every time I catch

3:40

them leaving the refrigerator door open at

3:43

home. I'm like, what are you doing?

3:45

Were you raised in a barn? You

3:47

raised in a barn? You're letting all

3:49

the cold air out. You're letting you're

3:51

letting all the cold air out? and

3:53

I see row after row of open

3:55

refrigeration units letting all the cold air

3:57

out, it doesn't even register to me

3:59

as a problem. Additionally, the store has

4:01

like a heating system, right? So it's

4:03

like cool in the fridge air, but

4:06

then it's heating the store air and

4:08

it seems like a big waste. And

4:10

waste is not just some casual concern

4:12

for Dylan. He co-leads a climate group

4:14

in Portland, and in his free time,

4:16

he lobbies Congress about environmental issues. So

4:18

definitely a big concern of mine is

4:20

just like, the climate environment, but I

4:22

don't always know the specific science behind

4:24

like, you know, like why does this

4:26

store have this refrigeration, does not seem

4:28

very effective? So

4:38

that is why Dylan came to

4:40

us. First, to figure out whether

4:42

this whole open refrigeration system is

4:45

really as wasteful, and second, if

4:47

it is really that wasteful, why

4:49

do grocery stores continue to be

4:51

designed this way? Have you taken

4:53

any steps to like figure out

4:55

why they are designed this way?

4:57

Zero steps taken, I just reached

5:00

it out to you. I feel

5:02

like... Even though I've never spoken

5:04

it aloud, it's like been in

5:06

my head. So it's nice to

5:08

know that someone else is thinking

5:10

about it. And someone else is

5:12

thinking about it to a degree

5:15

that like, you know, I think

5:17

about the dumb questions I have.

5:19

I'm excited to try and answer

5:21

this. And as I walked around

5:23

the store carrying a bag of

5:25

cool ranch-flavored research under my arm,

5:27

I felt like I was really

5:30

seeing the place for the first

5:32

time. More than half of the

5:34

refrigerated section was completely left open.

5:36

There were no doors or plastic

5:38

flaps covering even the most perishable

5:40

food like yogurt and eggs. And

5:42

later, when I went to Trader

5:45

Joe's for more research, I saw

5:47

that even the ice cream was

5:49

being kept in open cooling units.

5:51

Which, given what happens to the

5:53

ice cream and my house when

5:55

I accidentally leave the freezer leave

5:57

the freezer. open even a

6:00

little bit feels especially

6:02

insane. of this made sense to

6:04

of this made sense to me. energy From a

6:06

cost the energy standpoint, of the the whole

6:08

design of the stores seemed so

6:10

obviously inefficient. fact that they were all the fact that

6:12

they are all designed this way made me

6:14

think there must be some other factor that made

6:16

this make sense of you probably know Most

6:18

of you probably know that I came from tech journalism. And

6:20

I learned the And I that reason that

6:22

a lot of software is designed the way

6:25

it is, to try to try and manipulate the

6:27

end user to continue using it. it. or use things

6:29

a certain way. way. They call call it

6:31

dark patterns. And as And as I

6:33

was heading out of the store, I

6:35

couldn't stop thinking about this idea

6:37

that all these costly and inefficient refrigeration

6:39

systems were trying to cajole people

6:41

into a certain way of shopping. people I

6:44

just needed to find out what that I

6:46

way is. to find out I called

6:48

a grocery store designer So Dan a

6:50

grocery store designer was very much not

6:52

And he was very expected to find. dark

6:54

I think everyone has their own

6:56

creative outlet. Some do art,

6:58

some paint, some play music, play music a

7:00

store laying a store It's a kind

7:02

of an art. It's a thought

7:04

process. been in the family has been in

7:06

the grocery store design business since

7:08

1972. passionate about the super passionate about

7:10

the work. about my when I told

7:13

him about my of theory of open

7:15

refrigeration systems, he was like, first of all, that's

7:17

not of they're called. So not what

7:19

they're called. that if you go into that

7:21

grocery store, to the pros department department and they'll

7:23

have that case in the wall that's refrigerated with

7:25

a bunch of shells on it. bunch of

7:27

shells on it. That is is called

7:29

an open -air If you didn't you didn't

7:32

catch that, Dan says these

7:34

refrigerated shelves are called open multi -decks.

7:36

Open because they're because they're exposed

7:38

to the elements, in this case,

7:40

the cool air of the supermarket environment,

7:42

environment, and the shelving is tiered to

7:44

display rows and rows of produce and

7:46

goods. rows of produce and second thing

7:48

he told me thing he that my whole

7:50

dark that theory was way off way off,

7:52

at least in his experience Dan

7:55

Dan primarily works with mom

7:57

pop shops, not Safeway style

7:59

supermarkets. But he says that when his clients

8:02

are trying to decide what goes behind

8:04

a refrigerator door and what doesn't, their

8:06

primary consideration is customer experience. There are

8:08

some products that work and some just

8:10

don't. It works to put beer behind

8:12

doors, you know, because you can sit

8:14

there and you know what beer you're

8:16

going to get, right, and you can

8:18

grab it out. Things like dairy and

8:20

hot dogs also work great behind a

8:22

door, because you don't really need to

8:24

examine them. for the produce and package

8:26

meat, you know, those doors would be

8:28

a hindrance there. You know, people will

8:30

want to hold that open with their

8:32

cart and... look at all the different

8:34

cuts of prime rib that is there.

8:36

I never considered the idea that you'd

8:38

have to stand there with the door

8:40

open, but like now I'm thinking about

8:42

the things that I get out of

8:45

the freezer, which are chicken nuggets for

8:47

my daughter, ice cream, all things that

8:49

I know I am fully aware of

8:51

what it's going to taste like. There's

8:53

not going to be any surprises, it's

8:55

not going to have brown spots, it's

8:57

not going to be a thing that

8:59

I have to examine, is Costco. Going

9:01

to Costco is one of my favorite

9:03

experiences of all time. Because you can

9:05

really see customer interaction and flow in

9:07

a Costco store just stand at the

9:09

end of the frozen food aisle and

9:11

kind of see how fast people are

9:13

going in and out of that. And

9:15

then go stand over by the meat

9:17

department and just stand the corner and

9:19

watch how long people stand in the

9:21

meat department and see how they interact

9:23

and go through things and pick things

9:25

and pick things up. And you'll see.

9:27

Here's the products that are working and

9:30

don't work. And honestly, it just comes

9:32

down to making sure that you all

9:34

are having an enjoyable experience so you

9:36

come back. You know, no sort of

9:38

trickery. We just want you to come

9:40

back and shop the independent store and

9:42

not go down the street. Dan conceded

9:44

that his work was driven more by

9:46

the ideals of a good customer experience

9:48

than raw dollars and cents data. And

9:50

I conceded that... Yeah, okay.

9:52

I enjoy examining my

9:54

meats and cheeses,

9:56

and putting them behind

9:58

a door would

10:00

be a bit of

10:02

a pain in

10:04

the ass. them By

10:07

the time I said goodbye to

10:09

Dan, a the idea of pain in didn't

10:11

seem quite as crazy anymore. to

10:13

Dan, the idea That was before

10:15

I found out exactly how much energy these

10:17

multidex are using. quite as crazy

10:19

anymore. But that was

10:22

before I found out

10:24

exactly how much energy

10:26

these multidex are using.

10:31

There's another in in this episode

10:33

we are we are trying to figure

10:35

out ways to differentiate the two of

10:37

you I was wondering if you

10:39

would be was wondering we called you be okay,

10:41

if we called you Science Dan. Well, I do prefer Daniel to

10:43

I do prefer Daniel to you but

10:45

I'm happy for you to call me

10:47

or you call me whatever you me whatever you Daniel.

10:49

Daniel is Science Daniel, aka Daniel This is science

10:51

Daniel physics at UC Irvine, and the host of a a

10:53

professor of physics at UC Irvine

10:55

and the host of a science explainer

10:57

podcast called Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary

10:59

Universe, which has nothing to do with

11:01

But when I found a paper on the very question I found a

11:03

paper on the very question a lot out to

11:05

answer literature on this particular question, there's a lot of

11:07

scientific literature on this particular question it a look. I do

11:09

read a lot felt like I needed a set

11:11

of something you learn how to do. It's to give it a

11:13

look book. do read a lot of science

11:15

papers I need to skim something you learn how to

11:17

do It's like reading a science fiction to read, I

11:19

need to Here comes this bit. Okay. Here comes

11:21

that bit I need to skim that read, really

11:24

part. I need to read really carefully. to read,

11:26

really carefully, really definitely a skill It's like a

11:28

muscle carefully, paper I sent carefully, really was from 2015.

11:30

carefully It's titled Energy efficiency paradox colon,

11:32

a case a case study of supermarket

11:34

refrigeration system investment decisions. investment all

11:36

I wanted to know was, to

11:38

know was, what gives? gives? These open

11:40

multidex are in every store. store.

11:42

Can Can they really be as wasteful

11:45

as Dylan they are? they are? The The fridges

11:47

are using a huge amount of

11:49

energy. more than more than total of the

11:51

total cost of the energy of the

11:53

supermarket. like know, they're like running bakeries,

11:55

got they lights, they got all sorts

11:57

of stuff going on in the

11:59

supermarket, but huge... fraction comes from refrigerating that

12:02

food and running those freezers. It

12:04

costs a lot of energy to

12:06

keep that stuff cold, especially if

12:08

you don't have doors on it.

12:10

So yeah, these things are expending

12:12

a ton of energy, but he

12:14

also told me the design of

12:16

the open multi-deck is not the

12:18

same as when my kids leave

12:20

the fridge door open at home.

12:22

It is designed to be more

12:24

efficient than that. These open door

12:26

fridges are not totally stupid. It's

12:28

not just like you take your

12:30

fridge at home and you remove

12:32

the door. That wouldn't work very

12:34

well. A lot of these do

12:36

have specialized techniques where they like

12:38

blast the cold air in a

12:40

wall to use the laminar flow

12:42

to try to prevent the warm

12:44

air from leaking in, but still,

12:46

even all the fancy techniques, etc.

12:48

You could save at least 30%

12:50

of the energy costs just by

12:52

putting doors on these. And I

12:54

spoke to some climate experts here

12:56

at UC Irvine. that are much

12:58

more efficient and well-ceiling doors, that

13:00

that number could be at least

13:02

50 or maybe even 70 percent.

13:04

So it's huge. I read one

13:06

paper that suggested that the whole

13:08

country would save like 1 or

13:10

2 percent of our energy costs

13:12

for the whole country. I can't

13:14

stress that enough, just by putting

13:16

doors on the fringes. Science Daniel

13:18

told us that if grocery stores

13:21

made the switch from open air

13:23

multidecks to fridge doors, they could

13:25

save big money. in the billions

13:27

of dollars over the lifetime of

13:29

these fridges across the entire grocery

13:31

industry. Now I am not a

13:33

math or science guy, but my

13:35

understanding is that a billion is

13:37

a pretty big number, and many

13:39

billions together is a much bigger

13:41

number than that. And it's not

13:43

just that it costs a lot

13:45

of money to maintain open-air multidecks.

13:47

As Science Daniel explains, the fact

13:49

that you want to be able

13:51

to reach you for your yogurt

13:53

pops without going through a door

13:55

is costing us a lot of

13:57

money and polluting the environment. It's

13:59

a big deal. Now the details

14:01

are important though, like what we're

14:03

talking about here is energy use

14:05

and the impact on the climate

14:07

depends on where that energy comes

14:09

from. So if your supermarket was

14:11

for example... completely powered by windmills,

14:13

then it wouldn't cost anything from

14:15

the environment to use more of

14:17

that energy. But if you are

14:19

burning coal or natural gas or

14:21

whatever, which is still like 60%

14:23

of our energy here in the

14:25

US, then yeah, the more power

14:27

you draw, the more coal they

14:29

burn and your yogurt pots are

14:31

warming the whole planet. Oh, and

14:33

there's one more thing that we

14:35

didn't even consider. That clever design

14:38

that Science Daniel was describing earlier

14:40

that allows open multidecks to run

14:42

more efficiently than my home's fridge.

14:44

That's because they use refrigerants. And

14:46

refrigerants are very bad for the

14:48

environment, worse than CO2 in a

14:50

lot of cases. And even on

14:52

the best refrigeration unit, those refrigerants

14:54

leak. These refrigerants themselves are really

14:56

really bad greenhouse gases. CO2 is

14:58

a bad greenhouse gas even though

15:00

it's a tiny fraction of the

15:02

Earth's atmosphere, but there are other

15:04

gases like methane or more complex

15:06

organic molecules that are even worse

15:08

that smaller amounts of can heat

15:10

up the planet much more. Then

15:12

I read a study from the

15:14

CBC that said that the environmental

15:16

impact was equivalent to the emissions

15:18

of burning billions and billions of

15:20

pounds of coal, like basically running

15:22

an extra 150 coal power plant.

15:24

full-time. Okay, so it's clear that

15:26

Dylan was right in more ways

15:28

than he was even aware of.

15:30

The current refrigerator system at grocery

15:32

stores has real environmental impacts. So

15:34

why aren't grocery stores making the

15:36

switch if it could save the

15:38

money and be better for the

15:40

environment? After the break... I take

15:42

that question directly to the source.

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16:55

Alex Goldman Goldman and Hyperfects. So, before the

16:57

break, the break, out I found out just

16:59

how wasteful these open multi -deck systems can be.

17:01

can be, which brought me back to the question

17:04

we started with. we Why do so many grocery stores

17:06

use them? stores use had a

17:08

theory a there had to be some ulterior

17:10

motive. Some dark pattern that would make

17:12

this make sense. make this make And the only

17:14

people who could say people who could where the

17:16

owners of owners of Dylan's neighborhood and

17:19

Mrs. Mr. Mr. and Mrs. you

17:21

know, because of how how...

17:23

Safeway owned by by Albertsons. Anyway,

17:25

I I don't know if that

17:27

joke lands or not. joke lands or not. Albertsons

17:30

doesn't list contact information for any

17:32

of their department heads. So I

17:34

decided to call Albertsons main office.

17:37

to call Albertson's main office.

17:39

For calling Albertson's companies in

17:41

in Boise, Idaho, choose

17:43

choose from the following

17:45

menu options. For

17:47

current or prospective suppliers,

17:50

press 5. press 5. Whoa, just hung up hung

17:52

up on me. after I Even after I called

17:54

back, I couldn't get anybody. There's not even a

17:56

voicemail box. So, we tried

17:58

calling their corporate office. office. calling about

18:00

your grocery delivery or for

18:02

please press eight they directed me to their

18:04

head of marketing. some I'm for them them

18:07

but certainly ask one of our little

18:09

bit to give you a call a

18:11

call we go through your to your issue

18:13

she was on vacation. on vacation so we

18:15

reached out to Kroger, Costco Whole

18:17

Whole thank you for you for calling media relations

18:19

department Please leave a feedback message

18:21

by the way. Did you know

18:23

there's not like five brands controlling all

18:25

the major grocery stores in the

18:27

United States. It's true. it's true

18:29

Also is that that none of those brands got

18:31

back to me. back to Finally, I wrote

18:34

an email explaining everything I'd learned and sent

18:36

it to big grocery. sent it to But as

18:38

of publication time I've not heard. time,

18:41

I have not heard back. So, while I'd

18:43

answered one of Dylan's while

18:45

I'd answered one of Dylan's questions, these

18:47

I knew exactly how wasteful these open

18:49

I still were, know why I still didn't

18:51

know why they continued using them, and

18:53

the supermarkets were not helping. was But

18:55

the clock was ticking. I couldn't And if

18:57

I couldn't take this question straight to the source. the source, I

19:00

thought thought the next best thing

19:02

was Paco Underhill, the author of the author of

19:04

the book, Buy, the We of shopping. When of

19:06

shopping. walking through a store, not as a

19:08

through a store, not as as a customer,

19:11

is it but just as a customer.

19:13

matrix Is it sees end of the

19:15

text? sees all the green you I'm

19:17

imagining you being able to the

19:19

the code behind every product placement

19:21

decision in a place like that. that.

19:23

Well, I think part of what

19:25

is is interesting is that the local

19:27

grocery store manager is tired of

19:29

me giving him advice. him advice. ha,

19:31

ha, a ha, ha, ha, ha,

19:33

ha, ha, ha, ha. that counts runs

19:35

a consulting firm Fortune 100 that

19:38

counts nearly half of all Fortune 100 companies

19:40

as its clients. been able

19:42

the reason they've been able to

19:44

amass such a prestigious portfolio. because they

19:46

have because they have this uncanny ability

19:48

to go into a space, a be it

19:50

a bank a a retail space or

19:53

a restaurant. restaurant. and almost immediately

19:55

identify its inefficiencies. Part

19:57

of what made us

19:59

made us very... popular,

20:01

is that we could come back

20:03

with very immediate suggestions. Here are

20:05

10 things that you could do

20:08

tomorrow, and you can immediately see

20:10

what the difference is. The reason

20:12

they're so good at this is

20:14

because once they go into a

20:16

space, they collect tons of data.

20:18

They use everything from cameras and

20:20

interviews to eye -tracking glasses that

20:22

record the ways your eyes react

20:24

to different stimuli as you walk

20:26

around a certain environment. They even

20:28

have what they call trackers, which

20:30

are people who just skulk around

20:32

the store trying not to be

20:34

noticed as they watch people shop.

20:36

And once they get all that

20:38

data, they analyze it using the

20:40

principles of environmental psychology, which is

20:43

what Paco studied in grad school.

20:45

So I was hopeful that if

20:47

anyone knew the hidden reason behind

20:49

why supermarkets were using these wildly

20:51

inefficient refrigeration systems, it was Paco.

20:53

And he did. It just wasn't

20:55

nearly as sexy as I wanted

20:57

it to be. Well, part of

20:59

what you need to realize here

21:01

is that the basic design of

21:03

a grocery store was done in

21:05

the 1930s. So,

21:07

the reason grocery stores are designed

21:09

this way is not for

21:11

efficiency and not for return on

21:13

investment. It's simply because that's

21:15

the way they've been designed for

21:17

nearly 100 years, and we

21:19

are so used to it now,

21:21

no one has bothered to

21:24

update it. The physical design of

21:26

the store and choices where

21:28

the milk is the farthest fixture

21:30

away from the front door,

21:32

all of the chillers tend to

21:34

be on the periphery because

21:36

that's where easier to supply power.

21:38

mean, there are a bunch

21:40

of different decisions that were made

21:42

in the grocery industry in

21:44

the 1930s, which is 90 years

21:46

ago, which don't make complete

21:48

sense today, including this decision to

21:50

favor open multidex, overclosed refrigerators,

21:52

which was made based on the

21:54

very 1930s idea that supermarket

21:56

shoppers were primarily homemakers with kids.

21:58

If you think about somebody

22:00

who's got. a kid him pushing

22:02

a a cart, you have one hand, if

22:04

and if somebody has to

22:07

physically open then then physically pick. more

22:09

effort more effort just if they just have

22:11

to pick. it's all about ease of use

22:13

all about ease of use.

22:16

suddenly influence going to subtly

22:18

influence the behavior to maybe pick

22:20

up more stuff. funny. This correct the

22:22

only It's funny. This may be

22:24

the only large scale design choice that I

22:26

can think of that was made specifically with women

22:28

in mind. mind. and it was done to get them to spend more

22:30

money. to spend more money. Paco

22:32

Paco said from top to bottom, the

22:34

American American overdue for is overdue for And

22:36

if we look at other countries we

22:39

inspiration, other we'll find designs that yield

22:41

a whole host of different savings, including

22:43

energy. host of I can talk

22:45

about including other parts of the

22:47

world, where rather than going with

22:49

a 90 where angle. going with a 90

22:51

with a angle, they angle. a 45

22:53

degree what that means is that

22:55

while I'm losing. losing... 20% of my

22:57

of my shelf space, is everything is

22:59

much more visual from the standpoint

23:02

of the customer. they see see

23:04

more things are are interacting with

23:06

more things. a 45-degree angle, they can see

23:08

it's at a 45 degree angle,

23:10

they can see more of the

23:12

aisle. That's right, correct. that in also

23:14

told me that in some Latin

23:16

American countries, are there are supermarkets that

23:19

get their shelves restocked. via by

23:21

a forklift. than than sending somebody out out... to

23:23

you know, put things back on the

23:25

shelf from a cart. They they come out with

23:27

a forklift truck, they pick the shelf

23:29

to take it back to the back back

23:31

There's a team that restocks it and

23:33

then the forklift truck takes it back

23:36

out on the floor and puts it

23:38

back in its place. it back out And

23:40

the cost savings it terms of in is

23:42

about place. And the cost Is anybody

23:44

here in the US doing

23:46

anything like that? Not yet,

23:48

the maybe soon. anything like that? Not

23:50

yet, but maybe soon. I

23:53

was so was so impressed by and the way

23:55

the way he connected psychology with business

23:57

to produce real -world results. I asked

23:59

him, him like, hey! Do you have any advice

24:01

for a budding podcast, Tycoon, like me?

24:03

And Paco was like, nope, you're doing

24:05

great. And then he signed out of

24:08

our Zoom just as quickly as he

24:10

appeared. And at this point, I thought

24:12

it was time to catch up with

24:14

Dylan. So I'm curious how you feel

24:16

about all this. Definitely not good. It

24:18

was hard to blame Dylan. Essentially what

24:21

we'd done was managed to confirm a

24:23

fear he had while being unable to

24:25

even talk to the people who could

24:27

do anything about it. I'm

24:29

learning very quickly making the show that

24:32

the act of solving problems can create

24:34

problems of its own. A month ago,

24:36

I didn't notice that grocery store fridges

24:38

didn't have doors on them at all.

24:40

And now, not only has Dylan found

24:43

his worst fears are true, I feel

24:45

complicit, including the world, like two to

24:47

three times a week. But I also

24:49

like milk and cucumbers and strawberries, so

24:52

I can't just not use grocery store

24:54

coolers. I suppose if there's any silver

24:56

lining at all. At least I helped

24:58

prove Dylan was right. That this is

25:01

something to be concerned about. I guess

25:03

the knowledge, like, you know, I'm not

25:05

insane in thinking that like, wow, this

25:07

seems really wasteful. It is, it is

25:09

really wasteful, it sounds like. And now

25:12

there's going to be a podcast that

25:14

many thousands of people will listen to

25:16

and they'll be like, that Dylan, he

25:18

is so right. Vindicated. Now, my fiancé

25:21

can't question it. Oh, was she questioning

25:23

it? No, but I don't think she

25:25

was, she was like, whatever. There's other

25:27

things to worry about in this world.

25:29

I mean, sure there are, but you

25:32

can go back to, if, if that,

25:34

there's any consolation prize in this world,

25:36

it is being able to tell your

25:38

significant other, I was right. This is

25:41

true. This is always true. If you

25:43

count Dylan, me, Amor, and Emma. That

25:45

makes four of us regular grocery shoppers

25:47

that are now keenly aware of this

25:49

one big way we're destroying the planet.

25:52

That's not exactly enough to start a

25:54

groundswell of social change, but if you

25:56

heard this, and you too are feeling

25:58

like crap about. about

26:01

buying or whatever. whatever. I'll put the

26:03

I'll put the contact info for the five

26:05

big grocery conglomerates in the show notes. in

26:07

the show notes. Hyper Fixed was

26:09

produced by Emma Cortland, Sery Softer

26:11

Sookanic, and Amore Yates. It was

26:14

edited by Emma Hyper Fixed

26:16

was produced by Yates. It was edited Emma Cortland

26:18

Yates. It was edited by

26:20

Emma Cortland and Amore Yates. It

26:22

was hosted by me, is by the

26:24

The music is by the Mysterious Cylinder, and

26:26

me. was It was engineered by Tony

26:28

Williams. The episode was fact -checked

26:31

by Sona by Sona The bit with the

26:33

The bit where it was like, pew, pew,

26:35

pew. I ripped that off poo-poo-poo! I ripped that

26:37

off Please listen to her podcast, Loftus. Minute.

26:39

It's seriously so good. 16th From this

26:41

point forward, we are going to have

26:43

a new episode every other week forward, we are

26:45

in the off to have a new You

26:47

can get bonus episodes, join our Discord,

26:49

and much more in the off weeks..com bonus episodes,

26:51

Also, the show can't exist without problems

26:53

to solve, so head on over

26:55

to hyperfixpod.com and submit your problems. Hyperfix

26:58

is a proud member of proud

27:00

from PRX, a network of

27:02

independent, creator PRX, a network podcasts. Discover

27:04

audio with vision at radiotopia

27:06

.fm. Thanks so much for listening. Discover

27:09

audio with Vision at Radio

27:11

Topia. FM. Thanks so much

27:14

for listening! Subscribe

27:20

to Fixed wherever you listen to podcasts.

27:22

New episodes every other week and bonus

27:24

episodes on the off the off You

27:26

can learn more about the show and

27:28

sign up to be a premium

27:31

member premium member at.com. We'll have a link

27:33

in the show notes. notes. I also

27:35

highly recommend that you listen to Alex

27:37

listen to previous appearances on previous His story,

27:39

His was his first narrative audio documentary,

27:41

like ever. And it continues it continues to

27:43

be an all time favorite So So

27:45

check that out. And also check

27:47

out the Mars Mazda virus episode. It was was

27:49

so much. to have that that with with reply

27:52

all. have links to those in the show

27:54

notes the show notes too. This was our holiday off week, but

27:56

but we will be back new a new

27:58

episode next week kicking off new... year with

28:00

more mini stories. with

28:06

more

28:10

Hello, beautiful nerds, it's Roman here. If

28:12

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