0:00

Hey, it's Kathy. we get into today's episode, I

0:02

just want to let you know, if you're

0:04

in the LA area, I'm doing an event with

0:06

my friend I'm doing an event December my friend Emily McDowell We're

0:08

going to be doing some meditation, at journaling. We're to

0:10

also going to talk about how you can

0:12

create your own holiday abundance. we're It's going to

0:14

be such a magical morning. can if you want

0:16

to come and join us, please do. It only

0:18

to be such a spots are very limited. So if

0:20

you want to come, please reserve your seat now.

0:23

Go to now. Go.com slash slash holiday. Hey

0:27

guys, it's Kathy Heller. Welcome back to Abundant

0:29

Ever After. hope you had a beautiful

0:31

weekend. I I just need to say, a people

0:33

keep asking me, I how do I feel

0:35

say, the book launch started? how do I All

0:37

I can tell you is I feel like

0:39

I'm on a magic carpet ride. I I'm

0:42

so grateful. I feel I feel just the I'm

0:44

so of love. feel And it also

0:46

just feels so good to be sharing

0:48

these ideas in the world. ideas in the

0:50

I really don't have the words, but

0:53

I do wanna say thank you for

0:55

everything, for buying the book, for leaving

0:57

reviews. In fact, on Instagram, I just

0:59

posted that or you left a review a

1:01

you're gonna leave a review, I wanna

1:03

buy you a Starbucks on me. And

1:05

we're also doing another big giveaway for

1:07

a $500 gift card to Nordstrom and

1:10

a $500 gift card to Target, just

1:12

to say thank you for recommending the

1:14

book and for buying the the book and sharing

1:16

it with your friends. So out out my Instagram

1:18

for more details on that. I Today, I wanted

1:20

to share a fun conversation I had last week

1:22

with my really good Milken. She's been on She's been

1:24

on the podcast before. been She's been here as

1:27

a guest, but this time she was interviewing me

1:29

about the new book, of course, Abundant Ever

1:31

After. We're We're gonna talk about how you can

1:33

become a magnet for synchronicity. how to be led

1:35

by your purpose, how to get into a creative

1:37

flow state, and we even go into a

1:39

little bit about business. We had so much fun

1:41

that we ended up talking for 90 minutes. talking

1:43

we had to trim down. we of this,

1:46

but if you want the full chat,

1:48

you can see that on Instagram

1:50

as well. Her Instagram is at is at

1:52

the and my Instagram is my Instagram is at

1:54

Kathy dot Heller. All right, let's get into this.

1:56

Take a listen. a listen. I I want

1:58

you to talk about, since you're the abundance. like

2:00

you give so much energy to

2:02

like your listeners, your readers, your Instagram

2:05

followers that I'm like, where does all

2:07

of this abundance come from? And I

2:09

want you to like define what abundance

2:12

is because I feel like people think

2:14

abundance is like I have three houses

2:16

and a golf membership and six cars

2:19

and you're like no no no no

2:21

no you guys have it all wrong

2:23

and I want you to like

2:25

tell us what abundance really is yeah

2:28

well I think you and I if

2:30

I can be still bold, because you're

2:32

someone I really aspire to be a

2:35

lot like, but in some ways we

2:37

have a lot in common already. And

2:39

one of those things is our deep

2:42

pride for our Jewish identity. It's like

2:44

so much of who we are. And

2:46

that is where I get my

2:48

definition of abundance from, right? So what

2:51

does it mean to me? You and

2:53

I both know that the person who

2:55

comes in the room who's the most

2:58

impressive is the most loving. No one,

3:00

by the way, is impressed anymore by

3:02

anything. Where you went to college, who

3:05

cares? How many PhDs, okay, how many

3:07

businesses have you started? Because we've seen

3:09

all that, we get it, right?

3:11

What's impressive is how much space do

3:14

you create for people? How much well-being

3:16

do you emit when you are in

3:18

a space? Right? When you go to

3:21

the DMV, can you find the new

3:23

possibility to like make a joke and

3:25

like start up a conversation with someone

3:28

when you're like waiting for something in

3:30

line? Like, Who actually are you at

3:32

the core? And our abundance is

3:34

always in our well-being. How much in

3:37

overflow are we? Because we've both been,

3:39

I'm sure, in many occasions where, for

3:41

all intents and purposes, you're at like,

3:44

you're at some beautiful hotel and weather's

3:46

great and you should be so happy.

3:48

you're pissed because you're mad at your

3:51

mother-in-law or you're pissed because of some

3:53

weird story that's playing in your mind

3:55

that's making you feel like you're

3:57

not enough or you're being hard on

4:00

yourself or you're overthinking, right? And so

4:02

the book really defines abundance as it's

4:04

not a pile of things. You didn't

4:07

come to the world on this journey

4:09

of your life called how much stuff

4:11

can I acquire. How much insight? How

4:14

much creativity? How much love could I

4:16

give? How much love could I receive?

4:18

How much new possibility could I

4:20

even fathom? How much could I perceive

4:23

in this world? Right? And that is

4:25

to me, when I moved to Jerusalem

4:27

after college, which I thought was going

4:30

to be just a three-week trip and

4:32

I stayed for three years, that was

4:34

what was so compelling, so compelling. Because

4:37

I was living. in the tiny little

4:39

apartment, sleeping on a cot in the

4:41

old city of Jerusalem, and I

4:43

felt rich. I felt like I had

4:46

just plugged into the source of the

4:48

richest of the riches you could possibly

4:50

be in the universe of all the

4:53

cosmos, because my soul was on fire,

4:55

it was electricity. I thought I had

4:57

been privy to seeing what richness looked

5:00

like. I grew up in South Florida,

5:02

my parents broke up and we had

5:04

nothing, but I had seen big

5:06

houses on the beach. I knew, maybe

5:09

I didn't stay at the risk, Carlton,

5:11

but I had seen it, I've driven

5:13

by it, and I thought, oh, that's

5:16

what we're all gearing up for, some

5:18

adult life, where we just have more

5:20

things outside of us that make us

5:23

feel more on the inside. And then

5:25

I go to Jerusalem and I'm learning

5:27

all this unbelievable spiritual consciousness and

5:29

seeing the world through a tapestry of

5:32

such incredible, just looking at the world

5:34

through such a beautiful lens. And I

5:36

thought, how have I been denied this

5:39

code? This is the code. This makes

5:41

so much sense. My heart, I just

5:43

kept crying because I think when your

5:46

soul recognizes the truth in something, you

5:48

cry. Okay. So similarly, like when I.

5:50

living in Israel and I was

5:53

learning how to actually interact with the

5:55

universe. I was like, how did I

5:57

not know this? And I say in

6:00

the book, it's like somebody giving you

6:02

a waffle iron and you don't know

6:04

it's a waffle iron, so it sits

6:07

on your waffle iron, so it sits

6:09

on your desk and you're like, this

6:11

is the weirdest paperweight. And it's like,

6:14

no, it's meant to be plugged

6:16

into electricity and then it's meant to

6:18

make you the most delicious breakfast, but

6:20

you don't no answers in it. because

6:23

all of our wisdom comes with insight,

6:25

which comes from our heart, which comes

6:27

from within, which comes from flow state,

6:30

which really we now know comes from

6:32

super consciousness, which is like an antenna

6:34

that we have, and when we tap

6:37

into it, it's like a download

6:39

that comes from the field of like

6:41

the greater awareness, and we don't really

6:43

understand it, but we've been studying it,

6:46

right? Scientists have been studying, what does

6:48

flow state, how did Michelangelo get that,

6:50

where is the music coming from the

6:53

brain at all, actually? And so we've

6:55

put the brain on such a pedestal,

6:57

which is why we all get into

7:00

such a rut, because we keep

7:02

going to the brain for answers when

7:04

all the answers are in the love

7:06

of our heart. And our loving heart

7:09

is so intelligent that it is abundant

7:11

because it can love infinitely and never

7:13

run out of love. And here's the

7:16

other part. It could receive infinitely, because

7:18

that's what the heart does. And so

7:20

abundance is that state of being. It's

7:23

a state of being where you

7:25

feel at peace with things in divine

7:27

order. You feel the part of you

7:29

that's a soul. You know that there

7:32

is this one God and what that

7:34

means to us is that God is

7:36

one. It's infinite. God is in everything.

7:39

So we are a piece of that

7:41

divinity and it moves through us and

7:43

our job every day is to be

7:46

a vehicle for that. And then

7:48

we feel elated because our job every

7:50

day is so clear. In this, in

7:52

this moment, my assignment is to know.

7:55

that I'm supposed to be with you

7:57

in this moment you're my whole world

7:59

now. And so many of us can't

8:02

do that anymore because we're so distracted.

8:04

It's like I'm here with you on

8:06

the Instagram live. I can see that

8:08

my son, my college son is texting

8:11

me. I'm like, that kid never text

8:13

me. Like what's going on there? But

8:15

I'm gonna ignore that. I'm gonna stay

8:17

here with Kathy right now. And hopefully

8:20

he's just telling me that he couldn't

8:22

find his suit to get dry clean

8:24

for formal or some stupid thing. But

8:27

it really is hard to stay present.

8:29

in the frantic world that we live

8:31

in. And I think one of the

8:33

key things that I took away from

8:36

your book when I was busy taking

8:38

notes on it is you say that

8:40

we all talk about this like law

8:42

of attraction and the secret and all

8:45

that stuff. And you're like, no, no,

8:47

no. It's not the law of attraction.

8:49

It's the law of reception. And people

8:51

are like, please explain. your metaphor of

8:54

the radio, finding your own frequency, and

8:56

just the art of receiving because I

8:58

feel like if you don't fundamentally understand

9:00

that, then you've missed the whole point.

9:03

Totally. And by the way, I love

9:05

that you take notes because where would

9:07

I be in my life without my

9:10

friends who do take notes? The law

9:12

of reception. is really the whole book.

9:14

And again, Rabbi Aaron gets all the

9:16

credit. It is his metaphor. It is

9:19

absolutely gorgeous. And I feel so lucky,

9:21

just like if I only wrote a

9:23

book to just show the world how

9:25

beautiful Rabbi Aaron is, Diana, I'm like

9:28

so happy because he's such a gorgeous

9:30

soul. So here was his metaphor and

9:32

he said, the word Kabbalah literally means

9:34

to receive, Likabel means to receive. And

9:37

so he said, we don't believe in

9:39

the law of attraction because attraction, by

9:41

definition, means you have something here and

9:44

you're attracting it from over there. Okay?

9:46

He said, but reception is different. because

9:48

if you're receiving something, it means it's

9:50

already here, it's being handed to you,

9:53

it's right here, just open your palm,

9:55

it's literally here to receive means it's

9:57

already here, it's nowhere other than here,

9:59

and your job is just to receive

10:02

it. So he gave this metaphor and

10:04

said, if you had a radio. you

10:06

put it here. Another word for a

10:08

radio is a receiver. What does that

10:11

mean? He said like, so you turn

10:13

on the radio and then let's say

10:15

you hear music. He said, so where

10:18

was the music before you turned on

10:20

the radio? He said the answer is

10:22

only. The music was here. It was

10:24

hidden in plain sight. You just couldn't

10:27

perceive it because you didn't receive it.

10:29

You weren't receiving what is in escrow

10:31

for you. It's already an escrow. You

10:33

don't have to attract it. You don't

10:36

have to go figure it out. You

10:38

don't have to do something to manifest.

10:40

It's here. It's already done. It's in

10:42

escrow, it's here, you just have to

10:45

be willing to receive it. So what

10:47

does it mean? He said, the radio

10:49

works the same way we do. It

10:51

works from frequency. It's tuned into frequency

10:54

and the world is made of frequency.

10:56

Adams are energy. They're 99% of frequency.

10:58

The world is made of that vibration.

11:01

The world is a vibrational world. In

11:03

fact, Adams, it's all moving. It's all,

11:05

they're all moving. It's all in motion.

11:07

It's all energy. So what that means

11:10

is just like a radio, the music

11:12

that you're hearing, you're deciding on based

11:14

on the frequency you're tuned to. So

11:16

the life that you're living, it's not

11:19

accidental that you married Jeremy. It's not

11:21

random, that you have the energy in

11:23

your house that you have, that you

11:25

have friends like me in your life.

11:28

It's not random that you look the

11:30

way you look. It's not random at

11:32

all. It's exactly what you're choosing. Whatever

11:35

frequency you are available for is the

11:37

music of your life, which is why

11:39

you could grow up in the same

11:41

house with someone, you could have a

11:44

sibling, they have the exact same, everything,

11:46

but they choose a totally different frequency.

11:48

People have different energies, why? Because we

11:50

can either be coming from our mind,

11:53

which creates literally a chemical called cortisol,

11:55

which turns off the radio. We come

11:57

from lack, we come from stress, we

11:59

come from doubt. When we move into

12:02

our heart, are in a state of

12:04

ease because we're present in this moment.

12:06

And we all know when we have

12:09

moments where we're regulated and okay and

12:11

at peace and moments where we're disregulated.

12:13

And the video game we're playing is

12:15

how in flow, how at rest, how

12:18

calm, how in love with life, how

12:20

grateful can you be? And I will

12:22

tell you Sarah, just about you specifically,

12:24

do you know that Almost no one

12:27

I've ever met talks about their parents

12:29

with the, making me cry again, with

12:31

the gratitude that you have, like the

12:33

way you post those videos, you're your

12:36

dad with that little dog. I

12:39

know. Okay, so that's the beginning of

12:41

it, because whether you know it or

12:43

not, you choose that, you're choosing to

12:45

see it that way. And then guess

12:47

who's the recipient of that? You and

12:49

everyone who gets to know you, because

12:52

a grateful heart is the most abundant

12:54

thing in the world. Of course you

12:56

could find 15 things to talk about

12:58

if you wanted to. This annoys me

13:00

about my parents. No, you're like, the

13:02

way you talk just about that, let

13:05

alone your kids. Oh my God, when

13:07

Jake was leaving for school and you

13:09

were on this app and you were

13:11

like, you guys, I'm actually not okay,

13:13

but it's going to be fine because

13:15

it's so good for him and you

13:18

were bawling your eyes out because you've

13:20

loved every second of it. Not just

13:22

you've been there, you've actually been there,

13:24

right? So that's why it's not random

13:26

that we've bumped into each other randomly

13:28

at the country. Martin, you walked over

13:31

me, you're like, hey, I know you,

13:33

I listen to your podcast. And then

13:35

I said to you, oh my gosh,

13:37

you're the cutest person. You just made

13:39

me look so cool in front of

13:41

my kids. And then you said, you

13:44

saw my daughter's shirt. You're like, You

13:46

probably know a thousand people in common

13:48

for all these reasons. And then I

13:50

said, do you want to come for

13:52

sure bought dinner on Friday? And you're

13:54

like, absolutely. And my husband's out of

13:57

town, but I'll come by myself with

13:59

14 strangers. Sure. you knew everyone, almost

14:01

everyone there. And then we proceeded to,

14:03

you know, be very fast friends because

14:05

we're already on the exact same wavelength

14:07

into the synchronicity conversation. I feel like

14:10

synchronicity, you shouldn't name one of your

14:12

kids that actually. I know I'm obsessed

14:14

with that word. Because and I know

14:16

if you asked me years ago, I

14:18

would have been like that's a little

14:20

woo that's a little weird But it

14:23

really is true. It's like I walk

14:25

up to you with the country mark

14:27

like I wouldn't even walk up to

14:29

sting or Madonna like who gives a

14:31

shit? You know what I mean? The

14:33

people I walk up to are people

14:36

who have something to say like I'm

14:38

not saying they're not amazing musicians or

14:40

whatever, but like for me to go

14:42

out of my way to walk up

14:44

to someone and be like I know

14:46

you're having like ready chick with your

14:49

kids and eating french fries but like

14:51

I just want to tell you I

14:53

listen to your podcast and your kids

14:55

are like you know who she is

14:57

like what And then it could lead

14:59

to this whole friendship that has like

15:02

74 different parts. I've met your friends,

15:04

you've met my friends and family, and

15:06

it's like every door opens into like

15:08

another door, and it's all these doors.

15:10

And I would love for you to

15:12

explain to people that synchronicity is not

15:15

just random. It's like, it's weirdly planned

15:17

in a way. So weirdly planned. And

15:19

here's the thing, like when we look

15:21

at nature, and Rabbi Arran says this,

15:23

he's like, people look at nature and

15:25

just go, well, of course the sun

15:28

rises and sets. That's not so miraculous.

15:30

He's like, it's not miraculous. It's amazing.

15:32

Have you ever heard them describe? The

15:34

understanding of the geometry, that if it

15:36

was this much cooler or this much

15:38

hotter, we just take it for granted.

15:41

What I mean is, that's all synchronicity.

15:43

We've seen it so many times that

15:45

we're like, so what? The forests are

15:47

the forests, and the eagles are the

15:49

eagles, and the oysters spit their little

15:51

water, and if the oysters alone stop

15:54

spitting water, we'd all be dead because

15:56

there'd be red tide. But we don't

15:58

see that as They were

16:00

like, that's just nature. nature. No, what

16:02

what I'm saying is we are also

16:04

part of nature nature and everything is

16:07

already in flow and alignment. And

16:10

when we move out of the brain,

16:12

the part of the fight or flight,

16:14

the part of us that's constantly trying

16:16

to figure it out is what's ruining

16:19

the vibe. It's like being on a

16:21

date with your husband and you're trying

16:23

to be controlling and like, and like

16:25

here, It's it's not a fun a fun when

16:27

you like let go and you're like,

16:29

go me. like, Then it doesn't matter Then it

16:31

doesn't out of a paper bag. You're going to

16:33

have more fun. You're going to just enjoy

16:35

being to have more. husband husband my husband parked nine blocks

16:37

away so they don't have to pay for

16:40

valet parking. I'm like, and I'm like dude I I have

16:42

the most mystical synchronicity on Black Friday because my

16:44

daughters wanted to go to the mall, which

16:46

I did not want to do. So I made

16:48

them go hiking with me first. me And then

16:50

they're like, now we're going to the mall.

16:52

And we go to the mall, and there's to

16:54

park. So I pull into valet parking. park so I

16:56

pull first grade teacher. then my Her husband was the

16:58

valet guy. He's like. was the valet guy he's

17:00

like cat free valet! That's the best

17:03

the best man on the

17:05

of the year. Revalet on Black Friday

17:07

even I was like like,

17:09

guys guys, that's the dunk, like swoosh. That was

17:12

That's a good one So synchronicity

17:14

is everywhere and the idea

17:16

is that is that we are

17:18

meant to play. meant to are

17:21

meant to be light bulbs. is the

17:23

Our body is the the light. our

17:25

soul is the light. And when

17:27

we are playing being not sitting here

17:29

being disappointed and worrying, like, I think

17:31

about my grandmother who came to

17:33

the Lower East Side of Manhattan

17:35

and lived in and lived in escaping

17:37

the horrors of the Holocaust, the horrors the

17:39

worst possible beginning to a story

17:42

you've heard. And And then I had the

17:44

most like, I had the most magical childhood,

17:46

she tells me. here like, I came here not

17:48

speaking the language. I came here starving and

17:50

I could go to the library and it was

17:52

free and I loved it. And I would

17:54

read I would read she taught herself to read. herself to

17:56

went to school. to school. like, and

17:58

then I didn't have any but I

18:00

didn't care because I loved to dance

18:03

and so she tells me she would

18:05

take an eye line or pencil and

18:07

draw a line up the back of

18:09

her leg so she looked like she

18:11

had stockings on because you could only

18:13

go to this club if you had

18:15

stockings and then what happened the club

18:18

was restricted to Jews in Harlem it

18:20

was for Italian you had to be

18:22

Italian or whatever anything but Jewish and

18:24

so she got in meets my grandfather

18:26

who his name is Baruch Ben, but

18:28

his Hebrew name is Baruch. He pretended

18:30

his name was Benedito. He looked like

18:33

he could be Italian. And her name

18:35

and her name was Betty. They became

18:37

like the star dancers. He got a

18:39

job working with Gregory Heinz's dad. Okay.

18:41

And they go to the Catskills and

18:43

they're having this incredible love affair. And

18:45

then one day she says to him,

18:48

I can't marry you. I'm Jewish. And

18:50

he goes, guess what I am. I

18:52

am too. And they get married. And

18:54

she said, cath, all I wanted, I

18:56

had one thing on my list. Someone

18:58

to dance with me. So if you

19:00

can come from a nightmare and be

19:03

a person that says, I just want

19:05

someone to dance with me, then I

19:07

can tell anyone. I could look anyone

19:09

in the face and say, you are

19:11

capable of feeling abundant no matter what.

19:14

And so she was my greatest example because she always

19:16

had fun. And she wound up, they wound up having

19:18

money because my grandfather just to toot his horn, so

19:20

resourceful, he created what we now, I don't even know

19:22

what you would call them. I probably should know because

19:25

he was part of creating this. He used to put

19:27

cardboard in men's dress shirt collars. Like a shirt stay

19:29

kind of thing. Like a shirt stay, but it was

19:31

back when it wasn't yet a stay. It was like

19:33

it went around the whole collar. It was a little

19:35

less cool. Like when you're kind of how it turned

19:37

a department store and you have to actually like pull

19:40

it out. Yeah. So they came up with this idea

19:42

and that business wound up supporting him and his three

19:44

brothers. kids through college and my mom like had a

19:46

convertible and she was like a junior in high school

19:48

and her parents came from less than nothing like having

19:50

family members murdered nothing and so what I'm saying is

19:52

my grandmother used to say to me it's easy to

19:54

see the bad but if you look for the good

19:57

you're gonna find it and that's where all the magic

19:59

is and so when people say but what about this

20:01

what about this I'm like here's a deal No. Every

20:03

single one of us at any moment has the capacity

20:05

to tune into the quantum, tune into your soul, tune

20:07

into the energy, tune into God, tune into, and that's

20:09

what you're looking for anyway. And then what's amazing is

20:12

she didn't write it down and try to figure out

20:14

how she'd become wealthy or how hard my grandfather would

20:16

get out of. total abject poverty living in a tenement

20:18

with no running water, right? People were dying left and

20:20

right tuberculosis. Then one toilet for 26 families. One, it

20:22

was disgusting. She used to shower in her kitchen sink

20:24

with four brothers and sisters in one room in a

20:27

tenement. But the point was, when you're not trying to

20:29

figure it out and instead you're saying, How many hugs

20:31

can I give away today? How many dance opportunities are

20:33

there? You become a magnet. Of course that's her story.

20:35

How could that not have been her story? She was

20:37

so net positive as an energy, as a vibe, as

20:39

a frequency, that she was so beautiful, that like only

20:41

beauty was going to come into her life. And it

20:44

doesn't mean she didn't. have moments where I would sit

20:46

and see her heartbreak where she would think about her

20:48

mother because she died when she was really young. She

20:50

came from a horrible beginning. She did have that pain,

20:52

but she turned that pain into so much purpose and

20:54

she gave me that message of like there's nothing you

20:56

can't do. And this is only the beginning of the

20:59

story. All right, before we keep going, I just want

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23:13

You know, in Judaism, our

23:15

day begins at night, right?

23:17

So the beginning of Shabbat

23:20

is Shabbat dinner and then

23:22

Shabbat ends. It starts in

23:24

the night and ends in

23:26

the day. So the beginning

23:28

of the story is the

23:30

darkness. That's not the end.

23:32

And so if someone's like,

23:34

what about this? What about

23:37

this? I'm like, no, no,

23:39

no, that's your patch of

23:41

earth. In fact, this month

23:43

is a month of kiss

23:45

love. It's December. The Tiber

23:47

calendar follows the lunar calendar

23:49

because Abraham wrote the zodiac,

23:52

right? So all the astrological

23:54

charts follow the lunar calendar.

23:56

So we're in the month

23:58

of kiss love and... It says It

24:00

says, even though it's the darkest days of

24:02

the year, the The reason the the month

24:04

of of miracles, Christmas and Hanukkah and all

24:06

of that, is because all of that, is because

24:09

the is the opportunity to reveal the

24:11

most light. the most if you took

24:13

a candle took a lit the candle

24:15

in the in the you won't

24:17

even see it. It has

24:19

no power no power is contrast. is contrast.

24:21

So when there's darkness. darkness

24:23

and you become the

24:25

light. just got just got a

24:27

massive assignment. Think about

24:30

Nelson Mandela Mandela and the jail

24:32

cell being like. cell How will I

24:34

get out of here? What if I took

24:36

it out of here? Oh my God, I'm getting

24:38

out of here. Who's gonna leave this country?

24:40

What if I live this country? Oh my God,

24:42

I'm country? leaving this country. Oh my God, what

24:44

does that take? It my takes seeing possibility. country. Oh

24:46

That's it What the time. And no matter what

24:48

the seeing that's the beginning of the story. That

24:50

is not the end. no Now, I know there's I

24:52

know there's people listening a there's

24:55

a lot of especially midlife women

24:57

who are like, yeah, like, yeah, get

24:59

it. I hear what you're saying,

25:01

Sarah. I hear all of this.

25:03

I'm pumped about it. But like,

25:05

what's my next step? my This seems

25:07

really ethereal. Give me my next

25:09

step, next step, What is that next

25:11

step? Like, where do we start?

25:13

If we're feeling stuck, I know

25:15

you talk about in the book

25:17

a lot and just in life

25:19

about how the opposite of depression

25:21

is not happiness, it's purpose. But everybody's purpose

25:23

is so different. But like, if you're if

25:25

you're just somebody who feels stuck

25:27

and you're like, like, the next

25:29

step? step? What that Okay, so of all,

25:31

I love how good of a

25:33

student you are because I do

25:35

say that also, The opposite of depression

25:37

is purpose which is from a

25:39

different rabbi. It's all from rabbi. It's all

25:41

from that to me like 20

25:43

years ago and I love that

25:45

line. That's his line. And I love that

25:48

line. That leads me to what the

25:50

step is to what the step is, because

25:52

is now something now something which is

25:54

that, how do you know your

25:56

purpose? purpose? He says, says, of it of it

25:58

like this. says, was was with

26:00

a little bag of tricks. And

26:02

in that bag, there is something

26:05

that is brilliant and something that's

26:07

broken for everybody. And meaning to

26:09

say that we all have certain

26:11

gifts and we all have certain

26:13

big challenges. And usually our purpose

26:15

is what puts those two things

26:17

together. So for instance, it's like

26:20

one of my biggest challenges was

26:22

having a mom who suffered from

26:24

deep deep depression. And I saw

26:26

that and felt compelled to help

26:28

other people with that pain because

26:30

I was such a student of

26:33

that feeling of despair that I

26:35

had this conviction that I wanted

26:37

to do something about that because

26:39

I studied it by being her

26:41

daughter. And at the same time,

26:43

because she was so consumed with

26:45

her own deep, deep lack of

26:48

purpose and pain, I felt invisible.

26:50

And so I wanted other people

26:52

to feel seen because I didn't,

26:54

right? And so that passion for

26:56

wanting people to not feel sad.

26:58

so that they know that they're

27:01

magical and that they could then

27:03

feel seen made me start my

27:05

first podcast which was called Don't

27:07

Keep Your Day job because my

27:09

mom has a lot of talent

27:11

and she was like the most

27:13

talented in her senior class and

27:16

the girl who played her understudy

27:18

wound up auditioning for a Broadway

27:20

show called Little Shop of Horers

27:22

and she got the lead in

27:24

Little Shop and then she actually

27:26

played Audrey in the movie and

27:28

my mom could have, but she

27:31

gave it up because she believed

27:33

a story, which was to be

27:35

a good mother, she had to

27:37

give up her passion. She couldn't

27:39

do both, which I believed that

27:41

you can do both, and I

27:44

had a new idea, which is,

27:46

what if you don't have to

27:48

do it the way that men

27:50

tell you have to do it?

27:52

Like, what if feminism is not,

27:54

I have to do it on

27:56

your terms, what if you get

27:59

to be both? to be

28:01

the mom who could show myself that

28:03

my mom's theory wasn't right and that

28:05

you could theoretically live out the reality

28:07

of having a passion and still being

28:10

home with your kids and doing the

28:12

things that you wanted and making it

28:14

at both end. And so that became

28:16

my thing is like you do have

28:18

a gift, how do you use it?

28:20

So that was my way of saying

28:23

that your next step is to think

28:25

about something that breaks your heart. that

28:27

you've already gone through. You understand it,

28:29

so you want to give it to

28:31

other women. Like you wanted to have

28:33

something in your midlife that made you

28:36

feel alive again that was just for

28:38

you. So you created that for other

28:40

people, right? Deepok Chopra said to me,

28:42

the best way to cure your own

28:44

loneliness is to find someone who's lonely

28:47

and make them feel less lonely. So

28:49

the best way to make a friend,

28:51

be a friend. So think about the

28:53

thing that hurts your heart. that you

28:55

want to fix because God's helping you

28:57

see the thing that's broken because you're

29:00

needed to fix it. And then the

29:02

very first step, by the way, for

29:04

whatever it's going to be, and you

29:06

and I, I think we're kind of

29:08

talking about the same thing, which is

29:10

A little bit of like entrepreneurship is

29:13

what you're kind of asking also because

29:15

I believe that entrepreneurship is I think

29:17

it keeps you on the hook it

29:19

keeps you honest because if you have

29:21

a hobby you may give it up

29:24

but if you turn this thing you

29:26

love into a business you might keep

29:28

going. And I actually think that's a

29:30

good assignment. And I don't think it

29:32

matters, whether you make a million dollars

29:34

or $45. I think it's just fun

29:37

to feel that you are going to

29:39

give credence to something that lights you

29:41

up. And my contention is that you

29:43

could find some work in this world

29:45

that doesn't feel like a job. And

29:48

then it actually is an entrepreneurship. It's

29:50

like soul-ship. It's something different. That's what

29:52

my whole journey has been about. So

29:54

I like to say to women. If

29:56

you want to start that process start

29:58

really small. validating an idea which means

30:01

pick anything that feels fun and interesting

30:03

that you may want to do maybe

30:05

make a list of five things your

30:07

first step is like what are five

30:09

things that might seem fun okay one

30:11

is travel writing one is opening a

30:14

bread and breakfast One is making this

30:16

sweet custard flon that I make. One

30:18

is teaching sewing classes. Okay, so then

30:20

write the list, close your eyes, picture

30:22

each of those, and then ask yourself

30:25

which one gives you the most, just

30:27

a little shot of electricity. And you're

30:29

like, you know what? For some reason,

30:31

it's like sewing classes. It's like, great.

30:33

So start with that one and start

30:35

super small. test that idea. Gather five

30:38

women in your life. Hey, would you

30:40

like me to teach you this? I'm

30:42

having you all over for some like

30:44

Hawaiian punch and like I'm going to

30:46

teach you one simple sewing exercise and

30:49

then two things. One, see if you

30:51

even like it. Like, get some data.

30:53

We all spend all this time over

30:55

analyzing without any lived experience. So it's

30:57

like, try it. You might hate doing

30:59

a podcast. You might not like teaching.

31:02

You might realize that you thought you

31:04

liked teaching, but the part you really

31:06

liked was just creating the event. So

31:08

you're going to have other people teach

31:10

at your events, and you're just going

31:12

to create the events. It's important. And

31:15

I think the reason we don't do

31:17

any of the things I just said

31:19

is because we are unwilling to do

31:21

anything mediocre or messy or messy. So

31:23

it's like we won't even test anything

31:26

unless we can. predict and guarantee that

31:28

it will be a masterpiece. And in

31:30

order for you to eventually become Picasso,

31:32

in order for you to be a

31:34

master at anything, you have to have

31:36

the tolerance to be messy and to

31:39

just keep creating tiny little things as

31:41

you go. And what's so fun about

31:43

synchronicity and flow is that just like

31:45

if you see a tree where, and

31:47

this is all over LA, we're like,

31:50

come through the sidewalk and you're like

31:52

why has anyone not fixed the sidewalk

31:54

and you're like I'm gonna have stitches

31:56

on my face exactly yes like my

31:58

kids want a scooter and I'm like

32:00

you can scooter in Florida like where

32:03

it's flat and there's no trees like

32:05

you can't scooter here because the trees

32:07

come popping through the sidewalk but my

32:09

point is The universe is designed to

32:11

move to wholeness. So those trees come

32:13

hell or high water will find their

32:16

way to the water. It's designed to

32:18

do it. So you and I, there

32:20

was no way you and I wouldn't

32:22

have met. We were designed to meet

32:24

each other because we're both coming from

32:27

the same root of that water source.

32:29

It's all moving toward each other. So

32:31

more than you could predict, if you

32:33

take one little step that you think

32:35

is messy and nothing, someone's going to

32:37

show up at that class who's going

32:40

to give you a clue because the

32:42

universe moves towards wholeness. It's moving towards

32:44

what makes it the most whole and

32:46

healthy. So water seeks its own level.

32:48

Of course my grandmother was going to

32:51

meet my grandfather but she wasn't worried

32:53

about it. It was just going to

32:55

happen however it was going to happen.

32:57

But I also think there's another piece

32:59

of that which I talk about a

33:01

lot too is you know there's this

33:04

whole movement of like don't do shit

33:06

you don't want to do like say

33:08

no to people create boundaries but I

33:10

feel like that's really different than saying

33:12

no because it's uncomfortable like oh my

33:14

god I'm gonna go to Kathy's house

33:17

on Sunday for five hours and It

33:19

might not be her like usual crew

33:21

and it's going to be all different

33:23

people and I'm going to be standing

33:25

there all by myself and I'm going

33:28

to have no one to talk to.

33:30

It's just more comfortable to stay home.

33:32

And I think that when you have

33:34

that feeling of discomfort of like, oh

33:36

my God, that might be uncomfortable, those

33:38

are the times where you have to

33:41

say yes. And you have to put

33:43

yourself in that uncomfortable position because if

33:45

you never do the uncomfortable things, those

33:47

doors never appear. You're sitting here, I

33:49

mean, in your house. You and I

33:52

talked about this and we were like

33:54

playing with it and. then you said

33:56

it, and it's kind of become your

33:58

mantra, which is hard and good. We

34:00

don't do ourselves any favors. We certainly

34:02

don't. You taught me this. You actually

34:05

gave me a really big gift, I'll

34:07

tell you, because two years ago, my

34:09

daughter's in seventh grade, she was in

34:11

fifth, and I told you. School sucks

34:13

and it's so hard and I just

34:15

want to tell her to forget it

34:18

like who cares like she doesn't need

34:20

to do school and like college sucks

34:22

anyway and people go to college and

34:24

what's the point and it's you don't

34:26

even need it you should just start

34:29

a business and you said to me

34:31

stop doing that. because even if she

34:33

starts a business at the age of

34:35

17, this isn't about college. You said,

34:37

this is about you teaching her, she

34:39

can do hard things because she's capable

34:42

of it. And you said, I know

34:44

school stupid. It's so not pro-kid, which

34:46

is the only reason, by the way,

34:48

I could listen to you, because you

34:50

met me where I am. You were

34:52

like, first of all, you're right. And

34:55

here's why you're going to stop doing

34:57

what you're doing. You said to me,

34:59

by you not. telling her

35:01

that she has a greater capacity to

35:04

do hard things, you're denying her the

35:06

whole point of what the school thing

35:08

is about. You're like, you and I

35:10

don't care what school she gets into.

35:13

You said, you and I care that

35:15

you, A, tell her that what she

35:17

does matters a lot and that she's

35:20

more capable than she thinks she is

35:22

and she can do hard things. And

35:24

she doesn't have to do it perfectly.

35:26

Right. And then you told me that

35:29

when you were like, you're going to

35:31

start getting on the treadmill, which by

35:33

the way, you should know, I've been

35:36

walking four miles a day, and you

35:38

were the one who were like, no,

35:40

I'm so sorry, you're uncomfortable. That's actually

35:43

the whole point. And so we deny

35:45

who we get to become by sitting

35:47

out and not doing hard things. And

35:49

believe me, I'm so truly proud of

35:52

myself for writing a book because it

35:54

was effing hard. I hated the whole

35:56

thing. I wanted to give up on

35:59

it so many times. I was like

36:01

I can't do it. just say to

36:03

my team, you know what, forget it.

36:05

I don't know, it's not that important,

36:08

I don't even care. And it's like,

36:10

no, it is important because who you

36:12

become, forget the outcome, forget the best

36:15

sellers list, who you get to become

36:17

by showing yourself that you can show

36:19

up for things that you thought you

36:22

were not capable of. When you go

36:24

to sleep at night, what you take

36:26

with you and you hit your head

36:28

on the pillow, nothing comes close to

36:31

that. You just got the greatest reward

36:33

is, oh my God, I could do

36:35

that. I could sit through the tech

36:38

and publish a podcast. Hmm. That was

36:40

really something I didn't think I can

36:42

do. And the truth is, Marian Williamson

36:44

said this to me. She said, Even

36:47

Mother Teresa never scratched the surface of

36:49

the amount of power she actually had.

36:51

And I think the people who love

36:54

us the most will not close sign

36:56

that we are incapable. They will say

36:58

to us, are you kidding me? Do

37:00

you see yourself? You can put all

37:03

of this to bed. You got this.

37:05

And then we actually become larger than

37:07

we thought we were. And that's it.

37:10

It doesn't mean that we have to

37:12

do crazy ass projects every day of

37:14

the week and month after month. It's

37:17

not about taking yourself to the ground.

37:19

It's sometimes it's like small habits like

37:21

walking on the treadmill. I hate walking

37:23

on the treadmill. People are like, how

37:26

do you do it? I'm like, I

37:28

don't like it. I'm like the laziest

37:30

person. Ask my husband, like on a

37:33

Sunday, I could like sit on myself

37:35

for 19 hours. But I know that

37:37

my body and my brain and my

37:39

bones and my muscles need it so

37:42

that 20 years from now, I can

37:44

like... pick up grandchildren and move shit

37:46

and not be like crumpled over and

37:49

it's about like what you're willing to

37:51

invest in yourself because we all know

37:53

like and you talk about in the

37:56

book too like nobody's coming to rest

37:58

Nobody's tuning your radio. You're tuning the

38:00

radio and you're the DJ of your

38:02

own life as you say in the

38:05

book. And it's like, believe me, there

38:07

are so many days where I'm like,

38:09

oh my God, can someone else just

38:12

DJ my life? Can I buy it

38:14

on Amazon? Can it come prime? I'll

38:16

pay two-day shipping, whatever, 24 hours. But

38:18

the reality is, is no. Like, you

38:21

have to do the works. work and

38:23

not only that but you really do

38:25

want it that way because when you've

38:28

watched any movie that any of us

38:30

love what you love about the ending

38:32

is the amount of pressure that builds

38:34

because the hero's journey is having to

38:37

constantly be tested and then overcome what

38:39

they don't think they're capable of like

38:41

three months before my dad died I

38:44

had this really honest conversation with him.

38:46

That was probably among the hardest things,

38:48

harder than having children, harder than going

38:51

through labor, like being able to set

38:53

down how scared I was to tell

38:55

him about things that I just knew

38:57

before he left this world that I

39:00

had to come clean and tell him

39:02

like, you know, about my parents' divorce

39:04

or how it affected me. Like I

39:07

had always just smiled through it, which

39:09

was really actually keeping us from being

39:11

even closer, because I would just be

39:13

like, everything's great, but that's not real

39:16

intimacy, because if you really want a

39:18

relationship to be great, you push through

39:20

the breakdown to a breakthrough. And every

39:23

good relationship has a few of those.

39:25

And we just stayed in the like,

39:27

you know, sort of distant, everything's fine

39:30

place. And I'm so grateful that I

39:32

had that conversation because like a good

39:34

movie. you're betting on the hero to

39:36

say you're going to do the thing

39:39

that's the hardest for you and by

39:41

the time the ending of this movie

39:43

comes that's the payoff is that you

39:46

showed up through the hard thing and

39:48

then when you go to sleep at

39:50

night when you're 85 years old you

39:52

wouldn't have wanted someone to carry you

39:55

to the top of the hill because

39:57

the view at the top of the

39:59

mountain only

40:02

amazing because you When that's really

40:04

what you're in it for, that's

40:06

usually when you manifest the most

40:08

abundance anyway. Because when I started

40:10

my podcast in my linen closet,

40:12

it wasn't like I thought, oh,

40:15

you know, 45,000 people are going

40:17

to listen to this or, you

40:19

know, now I think we have

40:21

like 50 something million downloads. I

40:23

didn't. I wasn't really in it

40:25

for that. It was more like,

40:27

can I even do this? Like,

40:29

this seems really hard. What if

40:31

I could be consistent? Could I

40:34

be proud of myself if I

40:36

could just actually do it? And

40:38

then the doing of it was

40:40

the goal. And then when the

40:42

doing of it is the goal,

40:44

you're so in wholeness, you're not

40:46

needing anyone else to RS or

40:48

party. You've RS repeated. And then

40:50

you present to the world this

40:53

very authentic, this being that's having

40:55

its own. That's having its own.

40:57

Just beautiful party. It's and I

40:59

said this the other day when

41:01

you were here if you if

41:03

you go on a date with

41:05

a guy and you need them

41:07

to like you. It's not a

41:09

great date. But if you go

41:12

on a date with a guy

41:14

and you're kind of in this

41:16

moment of your life where you

41:18

like your life. He's in. He'll

41:20

be so in and then you

41:22

get to decide is this really

41:24

what you want or not, right?

41:26

Which is way more interesting. Because

41:28

you're psyched about yourself in your

41:31

own life and it kind of

41:33

takes away from that like co-dependence,

41:35

like I need you to make

41:37

my life whole. Right. It's like

41:39

I'm whole without you, but and

41:41

you add so much to my

41:43

life. Right. All right, we're going

41:45

to pause for a moment to

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42:59

I have this in common where like

43:01

lull was my next door neighbor my

43:03

husband was my next door neighbor and

43:06

my friend for three years when I

43:08

was 24 25 26 I was setting

43:10

him up with all my friends like

43:12

oh my god you're so cute let

43:15

me introduce you to Natalie oh my

43:17

god he's like I just want to

43:19

date Kathy and she's like it after

43:21

me off to the friends I feel

43:24

like it's not true it wasn't into

43:26

you like keep saying it right like

43:28

that is the synchronicity is that because

43:31

my husband was my next door neighbor

43:33

and because I wasn't thinking about what

43:35

I was lacking, then one day he

43:37

was like, should we just get married?

43:40

And I go, what are you talking

43:42

about? Like, what are you even saying?

43:44

Like, you're my friend. And then he

43:46

was like, yeah. And then we went

43:49

on a date because a friend of

43:51

ours, her father was like, you guys

43:53

are always hanging out. Why don't you

43:55

go out? He goes, go to the

43:58

four seasons, I'll buy you guys drinks.

44:00

And so we go out that night

44:02

kind of like as a dare from

44:05

our friend's father. And then I was

44:07

like, I go. you're right. I think

44:09

we're just going to get married now.

44:11

And he was like, yeah, I think

44:14

this is it. But like, here's the

44:16

crazy part. It took zero work. I

44:18

didn't go on dating apps. So what

44:20

I'm saying is this, the same way

44:23

that you know the story I bumped

44:25

into the guy who ran Apple podcast.

44:27

The same way I bumped into you

44:29

at the Country Mart, the same way

44:32

that I bumped into my friend's husband

44:34

who was running ballet parking on Black

44:36

Friday, who gave me free parking on

44:38

Black Friday, and even Marcus, I am

44:41

telling you a crazy controversial statement, which

44:43

is it is meant to all be

44:45

that easy. And it is that easy

44:48

when you're having fun all the time

44:50

because you realize that you're always in

44:52

the right place at the right time.

44:54

It's called wherever you are. Enjoy it.

44:57

and have a great time, have a

44:59

blast, have the audacity to have a

45:01

blast wherever the F you are. And

45:03

then because you're having so much fun,

45:06

everything wants to be around you. And

45:08

next thing you know, you're just like,

45:10

oh, I have this huge opportunity. Oh,

45:12

this cool thing happened. Of course. I

45:15

don't know, I can't explain it. It's

45:17

like, you talk about in the book,

45:19

you say it's 90% energy and 10%

45:22

strategy. I mean, you can't sit and

45:24

be like, and like, everything's going to

45:26

come to you. But it's like, the

45:28

strategy could be like showing up at

45:31

Kathy's house with 50 people, I don't

45:33

know, and whatever. But it's like, it's

45:35

the little things, but it's just your

45:37

attitude towards it. Like, yeah, that might

45:40

be a little uncomfortable, but maybe I'll

45:42

get something great out of it. And

45:44

you could go to something, not meet

45:46

anyone, and be like, that was a

45:49

waste. But at least you did it.

45:51

At least you tried it. See, the

45:53

thing is, like, I'm a big person

45:55

of action. Like, anyone who knows me

45:58

knows, I don't sit still. And that's

46:00

why I met a person. Oh my

46:02

god, I'm doing this. And then I'm

46:05

going to the Beller Hotel. I really

46:07

am. It's crazy. And then you're like,

46:09

oh, that program didn't work out the

46:11

way I envisioned. So I'm changing the

46:14

name of it tomorrow. Yeah. And then

46:16

like 400,000 people signed. for it and

46:18

then you have like your dad passes

46:20

away then you ever retreat at your

46:23

house I'm like what what's happening here

46:25

thing about it is like I think

46:27

that it is so fun to play

46:29

and when I was a kid I

46:32

like to finger paint I like to

46:34

make up plays in the backyard I

46:36

like to build a fort I like

46:39

to do collages I like to make

46:41

my own radio station with my friends

46:43

and pretend we were DJ's And I

46:45

don't think we should ever stop. And

46:48

so when people say, oh, so you

46:50

don't believe in taking action, I'm like,

46:52

oh no, all I do all day

46:54

long is create, throw spaghetti at the

46:57

wall, and nonstop, come up with ideas,

46:59

make lists, come up with like, this

47:01

will be a fun event. But what

47:03

I'm doing that's making that possible is

47:06

I'm not needing any of it to

47:08

be perfect. and I'm exploring to meet

47:10

all of it is in beta, all

47:13

of it is in the lab, all

47:15

of it is a test, all of

47:17

it is Jackson Pollack, to throw a

47:19

spaghetti at the wall, see if it

47:22

sticks, and why that's different is because

47:24

if every action you take is like

47:26

so overthought and you need it to

47:28

be a certain outcome, then you'll be

47:31

paralyzed by procrastination and you will be

47:33

paralyzed by perfectionism and you won't get

47:35

very much done because you need to

47:37

test things. In order to get to

47:40

the really creative thing, flow state, you

47:42

mean momentum. So what does that mean?

47:44

You can't steer from a park car.

47:46

So it's all action all the time.

47:49

But when you're taking action from a

47:51

place of inspiration, you're not holding on

47:53

to it. You're not precious with it.

47:56

It's like, try this retreat. Try this

47:58

podcast. Change the name. Like, keep going?

48:00

Because when you strike gold, it'll be

48:02

like, zzzz. Like, you'll get that. You'll

48:05

get that. but in order to get

48:07

to the this is it you like

48:09

my grandmother in the kitchen I could

48:11

never learn to cook from her because

48:14

she was like I'm eyeballing it I'm

48:16

just playing with it and it was

48:18

like watching jazz she cooked so well

48:20

and she didn't have any recipes she

48:23

was just like in it like flow

48:25

like just moving with the right so

48:27

that's how she came up with all

48:30

her best And so flow state requires

48:32

momentum, which is why most people don't

48:34

have a business, most people don't have

48:36

what they want, they won't take action.

48:39

When you take action and you don't

48:41

need each action to be your outcome,

48:43

it's never going to be by the

48:45

way. Like you're going to need 15

48:48

more iterations of that thing before it's

48:50

actually the masterpiece. So you better get

48:52

into action. You have to play. So

48:54

When you take action, not from this

48:57

is the strategy and it must work

48:59

or I'm gonna die, but you take

49:01

action from a place of inspiration, you

49:04

will bump right into really cool shit.

49:06

I think what's interesting and amazing about

49:08

you is you don't take it personally.

49:10

And I think a lot of people

49:13

get paralyzed in taking it personally. It's

49:15

like, oh, I created this course or

49:17

I had this party and nobody signed

49:19

up and da da da da. And

49:22

you're like, Okay, that didn't work out

49:24

a month of the next thing. Whereas

49:26

so many of us are like, wait,

49:28

what happened? Like, why didn't that work?

49:31

And you're like, creative flow, next thing,

49:33

we're gonna try something else, we're gonna

49:35

iterate, we're gonna iterate. And it doesn't

49:37

mean that you don't have like. you

49:40

know, disappointment or whatever, you're this like

49:42

robotic person, but you so easily move

49:44

into the next iteration. And I think

49:47

so many of us, especially midlife women,

49:49

when we're already having like so many

49:51

like physiological and psychological changes, and not

49:53

just that, like we feel like we

49:56

matter less. you know, because our kids

49:58

are going out and our spouses are

50:00

busy and this and that and we're

50:02

kind of mattering in the world less

50:05

and you're craving that connection that purpose

50:07

that everything the energy think part of

50:09

it is you have a bigger test

50:11

than I do because you were a

50:14

very good student and I was it

50:16

and I think that actually even though

50:18

that really sucked I was in school

50:21

like K through 12 and it didn't

50:23

it didn't feel good to like struggle

50:25

so much with school. I think the

50:27

blessing of that is I don't expect

50:30

myself to do anything perfectly because I

50:32

just didn't have that. What I wound

50:34

up doing is I went to college

50:36

and then I graduated with honors only

50:39

because I was actually interested in what

50:41

I was studying and also I didn't

50:43

have to take math and also it

50:45

was all about language and communication, which

50:48

that part I'm good at, I could

50:50

write a paper. I just couldn't do

50:52

all the science and the math and

50:54

stuff like that in homework and structure

50:57

and college was easier. I think it

50:59

gave me a gift. I think when

51:01

you're very young and people go, oh,

51:04

you're, oh my God, I'm going to

51:06

phrase you for getting straight A's, it

51:08

creates an identity of I can't fuck

51:10

up. People are counting on me. I

51:13

keep being told this is who I

51:15

am and nothing less will do. Now

51:17

you have an expectation for yourself that

51:19

you're supposed to know all the answers.

51:22

You're supposed to be together. And I

51:24

don't have that. So I think that

51:26

that's actually a giant gift is having

51:28

not my formative years. That I have

51:31

and what's interesting about is I don't

51:33

have it for my parents because my

51:35

parents were like do your best. They

51:38

never like asked me what my grades

51:40

were. They just were like very kind

51:42

of hands off with that. But it

51:44

was my own thing and I don't

51:47

know if it's. because of the schools

51:49

I went to I have no idea

51:51

but that's not true actually because when

51:53

I was in public school through middle

51:56

school I was the same way I

51:58

think it's just how I'm wired my

52:00

brother on the other hand like you

52:02

were saying different kids same house could

52:05

give a rat's ass at the time

52:07

he was like oh I gotta be

52:09

I gotta see whatever and I was

52:12

like oh my god I have to

52:14

get a hundred percent but what's interesting

52:16

is my whole life was like I

52:18

don't want to say it was a

52:21

performance-driven benchmarks benchmarks Check check and I

52:23

think what's. about this time of life

52:25

is a lot of those checks are

52:27

already done. And now you're at a

52:30

point where you're like, there's no more

52:32

checkmarks. Like, I did get married. Like,

52:34

I did have kids. I mean, everybody's

52:36

checkmarks are different. I didn't have the

52:39

big career, but I got the PhD,

52:41

all those things. But it's like this

52:43

curvy linear, swampy, nonlinear place. So for

52:45

someone like me, I'm like, somebody give

52:48

me a benchmark, please, I need a

52:50

check. Well, even though you didn't have

52:52

parents who were demanding, you had a

52:55

mother and a grandmother who were extremely

52:57

accomplished. And so it set a bar

52:59

that said, in order for me to

53:01

prove my existence, I needed not be

53:04

a slouch. And that's an interesting cross

53:06

there, so to speak. But my grandmother,

53:08

like, came on a boat from Yugoslavia,

53:10

never finished high school, brewed tomatoes in

53:13

her backyard, had to work for her

53:15

family, like in high, and then became

53:17

the head of Gucci for people who

53:19

don't know. Yes. So then she became

53:22

the CEO of Gucci, but it was

53:24

because she went to nice school, learned

53:26

accounting. Someone offered her this kind of

53:29

low level accounting job at a furrier.

53:31

She's like, I know nothing about this.

53:33

She's like, I'll just take a chance

53:35

and do it. So she becomes like

53:38

an accountant for a furrier. And then

53:40

this guy, Aldo Gucci, who is doing

53:42

work with them, was like, hey, why

53:44

don't you come work for me? Again,

53:47

open door, right place, right time. I

53:49

love that story. There was a fireman.

53:51

I love that story. Love, love, love

53:53

that story. And you know, Dr. Casey

53:56

means she said something so brilliant. I've

53:58

heard it, but I don't think I've

54:00

heard it this said this well. She

54:02

said, the opposite of fear is not

54:05

certainty. It's infinite possibility. that's what we're

54:07

just saying is that the mind tells

54:09

you, wait, where's my next checkmark? I

54:12

need some milestone in order to feel

54:14

certain about who I am and what

54:16

I'm after. But the soul says you

54:18

want the greater expansive life, which is

54:21

infinite possibility. You want to trade in

54:23

a scorecard. for a fully mystical spiritual,

54:25

unbelievable life that is synchronicity every day

54:27

all day. And that has nothing to

54:30

do with benchmarks. That has everything to

54:32

do with playing and getting back to

54:34

what really feels like magic, which is.

54:36

literally allowing something bigger than you could

54:39

have ever have perceived to come into

54:41

your life and look at my life

54:43

Sarah like could I have ever have

54:46

dreamed people are like oh you manifested

54:48

you had a vision board like no

54:50

no this wasn't on my vision board

54:52

because I'm not a specific there's two

54:55

kinds of manifestors by the way Michael

54:57

Singer in his book the surrender experiment

54:59

the untethered soul he says There's two

55:01

kinds of manifestors, one kind of specific

55:04

manifestors who, you know, they cut out

55:06

pictures and they're like, I want this

55:08

kind of house with the blue door

55:10

and then there's non specific manifestors, which

55:13

he says he is, which are more

55:15

like, I just know how I want

55:17

to feel. And I'm chasing not a

55:20

thing of feeling. And so. That's more

55:22

me is like, I know what I

55:24

want to feel like. And so I

55:26

give myself that feeling every day and

55:29

it doesn't matter. Lowell and I were

55:31

living in a two bedroom apartment when

55:33

we first got married on like a

55:35

little street where we didn't even have

55:38

a wash or dryer. I love going

55:40

to do my own at the laundry

55:42

mat. I used to like it. Like

55:44

I thought all of that was really

55:47

fun. I love my downstairs neighbors. And

55:49

then now where I live is like.

55:51

Oh, how fun. Everything about my life

55:53

is more than I ever could have

55:56

dreamed. It's the feeling I wanted on

55:58

steroids. That's all. And the truth is...

56:00

as magnificent as it is to have

56:03

the world that I get to have,

56:05

the world I really want is the

56:07

sanctuary within myself. I want to go

56:09

even deeper. I want to hear even

56:12

more the real spiritual wisdom that I

56:14

think is trying to get my attention

56:16

all the time. You know, writing this

56:18

book, like, it's confronting because we're all

56:21

so busy scrolling and doing all these

56:23

things and being busy, busy, busy bees

56:25

that we We deny listening to our

56:27

wisdom. We like don't even remember how

56:30

to hear it. And when you write

56:32

a book, it kind of makes you

56:34

cry because it's just you and yourself.

56:37

And in order for the book to

56:39

be good, you have to be willing

56:41

to listen and not look for the

56:43

answers outside of yourself, but what's actually

56:46

inside of you. And it took me

56:48

three years because I just I would

56:50

lose patience and want to find energy

56:52

outside of myself again and it's like

56:55

no it's really listening to the wisdom

56:57

that God is whispering to all of

56:59

us all the time and that's I

57:01

said that to you the other day

57:04

that the first piece of Jewish wisdom

57:06

I ever learned is that the word

57:08

Shabbat means to meditate and that when

57:10

Abraham would sit and meditate he would

57:13

hear the voice of God and the

57:15

schmyserol means to listen. And your next

57:17

step for anyone listening to go back

57:20

to your question is to listen. The

57:22

brain doesn't have any answers, but the

57:24

heart usually has one very clear answer.

57:26

And if you listen, it'll either say

57:29

to you, slow down or it'll say,

57:31

call that person or it'll say, just

57:33

make the next thing. And then it

57:35

will give you the next clue. All

57:38

right, before we wrap this up, I

57:41

just want to thank our sponsor, Home

57:43

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Home chef.com/dream job. Must be an active

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subscriber to receive the free dessert. I

59:10

want to say one other thing, which

59:12

is I was doing a live with

59:15

my friend Veronica this morning and she

59:17

told me how amazing Taylor Swift is

59:19

and. I said, I have to say

59:21

something which is probably controversial, but controversial

59:24

things I think are interesting. I said,

59:26

listen, I took my two older daughters

59:28

to see Taylor Swift and it was

59:30

epic and I cried when she first

59:33

came out because it really is a

59:35

feat. She deserves a lot of credit

59:37

to do that. And then I said,

59:39

but you just said to me, my

59:42

friend Veronica, I said, you just said

59:44

to me, how do we keep up?

59:46

Like, you know, she's so prolific, she's

59:48

making all this stuff, she's written all

59:51

these albums. And I said, I want

59:53

you to catch your breath and I

59:55

want you to ask yourself with all

59:57

the stuff that she's put out there,

1:00:00

all of it. Is there one song

1:00:02

for every single action she's taken because

1:00:04

she's done so much, she's published so

1:00:06

much, produced so much, produced so much?

1:00:09

the sound of silence in that body

1:00:11

of work? Is Joanie Mitchell's? I looked

1:00:13

at life from both sides now. Is

1:00:15

that in there? The answer is no.

1:00:18

I guarantee you that in five generations,

1:00:20

people will be playing Bach and Mozart.

1:00:22

They will be listening to bad blood.

1:00:24

And the choice that we're being given

1:00:26

all the time is, are you meant

1:00:29

to just constantly be busy doing things?

1:00:31

Or are you meant to go deep

1:00:33

within yourself and do fewer things but

1:00:35

the things that you do become timeless?

1:00:38

And we live in a world that

1:00:40

puts on a pedestal. The

1:00:42

business rather than the resonance,

1:00:44

the potency of the thing

1:00:46

that actually will last. Like

1:00:48

Leonard Cohen's, Hallelujah, is equal

1:00:50

to every album that that

1:00:52

girl has written times a

1:00:54

thousand because he wasn't in

1:00:56

it for. the next pop

1:00:58

song. It's the music of

1:01:00

his soul, the song that

1:01:02

came from the depths of

1:01:04

his being. That's different. And

1:01:06

so if you really want

1:01:08

to create that, maybe you'll

1:01:10

marinate for a while. Maybe

1:01:12

you'll take your time. Maybe

1:01:14

the answer is not yet.

1:01:16

Maybe God is saying, don't

1:01:18

do anything yet. Keep doing

1:01:20

the podcast. I'll let you

1:01:22

know when the book's ready.

1:01:24

Keep doing what you're doing.

1:01:26

I'll let you know when

1:01:29

you're ready to have the

1:01:31

big download. It's not yet.

1:01:33

Because nobody's wise anymore. Everyone

1:01:35

speaks and posts and creates

1:01:37

content. What's in it? Nothing.

1:01:39

I think we're in this

1:01:41

like clip time where everything's

1:01:43

short clips. Make your post

1:01:45

fast. Nobody wants to watch

1:01:47

something more than 30 seconds

1:01:49

like da da da da.

1:01:51

Like everything's like boom boom.

1:01:53

And I feel like that.

1:01:55

like the opposite of like

1:01:57

meditation. I think that's why

1:01:59

meditation is so hard for

1:02:01

so many of us because

1:02:03

you're being asked to disconnect

1:02:05

from quickness and just sit

1:02:07

in like you said you

1:02:09

went to your first meditation

1:02:11

retreat and you sat there

1:02:13

for 10 hours and you

1:02:15

were like, I'm going crazy.

1:02:17

What's happening here? I can't

1:02:19

sit with myself. And

1:02:21

then I said to see the

1:02:23

other day that I went to

1:02:25

see Dr. Edith eager two weekends

1:02:27

ago and spent Shabbat with her

1:02:29

and she's telling me she got

1:02:31

her PhD at 55 and she

1:02:33

wrote her first book at 87

1:02:36

and here's the deal is like

1:02:38

the book she I mean it's

1:02:40

gonna make me cry but the

1:02:42

book she decided to finally write

1:02:44

when she wrote a book was

1:02:46

worth the weight. And

1:02:48

I think it's a great point

1:02:50

because so many of us see

1:02:52

what everyone's finished products are or

1:02:54

what their accomplishments are like we

1:02:56

don't really we didn't really follow

1:02:59

all the iterations of Apple behind

1:03:01

the scenes on Instagram or like.

1:03:03

how many iterations a jewelry company

1:03:05

went through or they've been working

1:03:07

at this jewelry you know at

1:03:09

this jewelry brand for like even

1:03:11

when I interview Jennifer Fisher she's

1:03:13

like I've been doing this for

1:03:15

15 years people it's not like

1:03:17

I woke up yesterday and I

1:03:19

was like oh my god I

1:03:22

have this huge jewelry brand and

1:03:24

blah blah blah no this is

1:03:26

like 15 years and like even

1:03:28

for me being a few years

1:03:30

in a few years sometimes I'm

1:03:32

like oh my god this is

1:03:34

so much work should I really

1:03:36

be doing all of this blah

1:03:38

blah blah blah blah And like,

1:03:40

what do you say to the

1:03:42

people who wake up tired and

1:03:45

they're like, I just want to

1:03:47

quit? Like, how do you stay

1:03:49

in the game? Well, my favorite

1:03:51

answer to that is the Seth

1:03:53

Godin answer because he wrote this

1:03:55

little book called the dip and

1:03:57

he says everybody hits the dip.

1:03:59

Like, you could hit the dip

1:04:01

once a week, but you all

1:04:03

hit the dip. And he says

1:04:05

the dip is inevitable. the people

1:04:08

who push past that point of

1:04:10

I want to give up, those

1:04:12

are the people we all know,

1:04:14

because failure and success is the

1:04:16

same road. Success is just further

1:04:18

down the same path. And so

1:04:20

it's the staying with it. staying

1:04:22

with it. If you go back,

1:04:24

if you go to Google and

1:04:26

you type in Picasso's earliest work

1:04:28

and then you scroll through all

1:04:31

of Picasso, the beginning work of

1:04:33

Picasso looks exactly like everything. He

1:04:35

was just mimicking everything else and

1:04:37

then late in his life, he

1:04:39

started making all these angles that

1:04:41

were so different. It's like, it's

1:04:43

sand, it's sand, boom, it turns

1:04:45

to glass. like wait for it.

1:04:47

And that is not something that

1:04:49

the world has become very impatient.

1:04:51

And there is something

1:04:54

you know about staying with it and

1:04:56

that's why you said to me in

1:04:58

august you know i'm being really vulnerable

1:05:00

but i was like i can't do

1:05:03

it my husband i are so different

1:05:05

and you're like can you just stop

1:05:07

you're like just focus on your own

1:05:09

health and leave him alone and just

1:05:12

stop picking at it and just go

1:05:14

make yourself better and then your marriage

1:05:16

is gonna keep like a fine line

1:05:18

it's just gonna keep involving just stop

1:05:20

picking at it and you were right

1:05:23

when you realize that you're in it

1:05:25

together and you're willing to allow the

1:05:27

other person to evolve like I'm sure

1:05:29

me starting a podcast and like a

1:05:32

whole TMI Instagram my kids and my

1:05:34

husband were like what the what's wrong

1:05:36

with her like what love that? they

1:05:38

do now. I think at the beginning,

1:05:41

oh yeah I know but I'm like

1:05:43

I think at the beginning they were

1:05:45

like um I don't really don't need

1:05:47

to be filmed in my weighted vest

1:05:49

I really don't need my burnt pan

1:05:52

filmed you know all that stuff and

1:05:54

I just said to them I'm like

1:05:56

you guys this is like my real

1:05:58

life and I think part of my

1:06:01

assignment on this earth right now other

1:06:03

than like being a mom two kids

1:06:05

who would prefer not to get text

1:06:07

for me is to remind midlife women

1:06:10

that they matter because it right now

1:06:12

I think a lot of us feel

1:06:14

like we don't matter and it does

1:06:16

feel lonely sometimes you know but anytime

1:06:18

there's like you're in a personal growth

1:06:21

or transformation stage like I posted somebody

1:06:23

last night talking about it and there

1:06:25

is a sense of loneliness sometimes you're

1:06:27

like Am I doing this all by

1:06:30

myself? I know I'm not, but sometimes

1:06:32

it feels really lonely. Yeah, I think

1:06:34

that, you know, going back to Judaism,

1:06:36

like we believe that people have wisdom.

1:06:39

after the age of 40. Like on

1:06:41

paper, the Talmud says you shouldn't even

1:06:43

learn Kabbalah till after 40 because you

1:06:45

haven't even gotten the basics down because

1:06:47

words don't teach, only experience does, and

1:06:50

so you need life experience to make

1:06:52

you wise. So it's interesting because we

1:06:54

live in a culture that values the

1:06:56

youth. more than the wisdom that comes

1:06:59

with experience. But the older you get,

1:07:01

you realize that hanging out with Dr.

1:07:03

Eith Eager, who's now 95, like that

1:07:05

is so much more fun than being

1:07:08

at the coolest party in LA with

1:07:10

the new trendy 33 year olds who

1:07:12

are so insecure. like desperately trying to

1:07:14

fit in and belong and admitting such

1:07:16

a low vibe versus the wisdom of

1:07:19

like I love Julie's Dreyfus's new podcast

1:07:21

wiser than me because you know you

1:07:23

listen to Jane Fonda and you listen

1:07:25

to these women who come into themselves

1:07:28

and I often say when I'm coaching

1:07:30

I say think about who you're going

1:07:32

to be at 85 you're not going

1:07:34

to give a shit you're going to

1:07:37

be authentic you're going to be best.

1:07:39

You're going to say things that you

1:07:41

really mean and you're going to be

1:07:43

happier. Why can't you be that way

1:07:45

now? And so as lonely as it

1:07:48

feels, I think it's just because we're

1:07:50

here to start a revolution to say

1:07:52

it's the opposite. Like instead of trying

1:07:54

to keep up with these people who

1:07:57

are younger, who are completely not in

1:07:59

their own skin. We need to own

1:08:01

and declare how much we've literally like

1:08:03

become and just turn the microphone up

1:08:06

because I think the world, you know,

1:08:08

and couple-istically, my friend Debbie said this

1:08:10

the other day and she's right, like,

1:08:12

we're in the season before the Messianic

1:08:14

era and so there's an awakening of

1:08:17

consciousness, a real awakening. And so you're

1:08:19

right on time, Sarah, because it's like,

1:08:21

look what we've learned, you know, through

1:08:23

the last few generations, like how far

1:08:26

women have come, like there's just been

1:08:28

like a lot of growth, and now

1:08:30

it's like we're at the place where

1:08:32

the world is ready to understand and

1:08:35

hear from the wisdom of women, that

1:08:37

really divine feminine alignment. And you actually

1:08:39

are right on time, like it only

1:08:41

actually clicks on in your mid 40s.

1:08:43

So I think you have a bigger

1:08:46

purpose than you even know, I'm even

1:08:48

realizing it as I say it, that

1:08:50

your purpose is to give that permission

1:08:52

and that microphone to women in their

1:08:55

own living rooms and in their own

1:08:57

lives. that now is their moment. Like

1:08:59

it actually just began. In fact, Dr.

1:09:01

Edith, I told you, she said, the

1:09:03

dean of her school said, if you

1:09:06

come to school, you won't graduate till

1:09:08

you're 55. You won't get a PhD

1:09:10

to a 55. And then she said

1:09:12

to him, I'll be 55 anyway. Like,

1:09:15

why are you saying that? So good.

1:09:17

And then she practiced, she was a

1:09:19

therapist in La Jolla for 40 years

1:09:21

more. What are you talking? know. It's

1:09:24

in this book, Abundant Never After. It's

1:09:26

so good, you guys. I sat in

1:09:28

one and a half sitings with all

1:09:30

my red notes here. I feel like

1:09:32

it's such an amazing gift for yourself,

1:09:35

amazing gift for friends, women in the

1:09:37

holidays, Hanukkah, Christmas, New Year's, name it.

1:09:39

All the things. We could even do

1:09:41

like a book club discussion about it.

1:09:44

Oh my God, we should totally do

1:09:46

that. You and I should get everyone

1:09:48

to buy a book. We should do

1:09:50

that with friends. Yeah, and we should

1:09:53

do that. And we should invite people

1:09:55

like on Zoom and we'll do like

1:09:57

a whole book chat and we'll test

1:09:59

people. Be like, tell us the story

1:10:01

about the snow globe. You're so cute.

1:10:04

And I don't know what I ever

1:10:06

did to merit having a friend. Oh

1:10:08

my God. But I feel the same

1:10:10

time I'm with you. I feel like

1:10:13

it's my birthday. It's my birthday. And

1:10:15

fourth of July. and Christmas. And I

1:10:17

love you. You're the most generous. You

1:10:19

make everything that you give, feel like

1:10:22

it was nothing, and you give me

1:10:24

so much love, support, insight, vulnerability, laughs,

1:10:26

and you're so just effing gorgeous. And

1:10:28

I really do look up to you

1:10:30

so much as a human. God, I

1:10:33

feel the same thing about you. Look

1:10:35

you guys, you did get a day.

1:10:37

Buy a copy for your best friend

1:10:39

and for your mom and for your

1:10:42

aunt Marjorie because they will thank you

1:10:44

and I love you Sarah very much.

1:10:46

Amazing, we'll do it again. Love you.

1:10:48

Okay, bye, love you. Oh my gosh,

1:10:51

so much fun. I can literally speak

1:10:53

with Sarah for hours. All right, here

1:10:55

are the takeaways. Number one, the most

1:10:57

impressive person in the room is the

1:10:59

most loving person. What's impressive is how

1:11:02

much space you create for people, how

1:11:04

much well-being you exude when you're in

1:11:06

a space. Number two, abundance is not

1:11:08

a pile of things. You didn't come

1:11:11

to this life journey to see how

1:11:13

much stuff you can acquire. What you

1:11:15

came to acquire is how much spiritual

1:11:17

wealth, how much insight, how much creativity,

1:11:20

how much love you can give, how

1:11:22

much love you can receive. much

1:11:24

new possibility can

1:11:26

you even fathom. three,

1:11:28

the music is

1:11:31

always here. It's hidden

1:11:33

in plain sight.

1:11:35

It's already an escrow.

1:11:37

It's already done.

1:11:40

You just have to

1:11:42

be willing to

1:11:44

receive it. Whatever frequency

1:11:46

you are available

1:11:49

for is the music

1:11:51

of your life.

1:11:53

Number four, it's easy

1:11:55

to see the

1:11:57

bad, but if you

1:12:00

look for the

1:12:02

good, you're going to

1:12:04

find it and

1:12:06

that's where all the

1:12:09

magic is. Number

1:12:11

five, when you're not

1:12:13

trying to figure

1:12:15

it out and instead

1:12:18

you how many

1:12:20

hugs can I give

1:12:22

away today? How

1:12:24

many dance opportunities are there? You become a magnet.

1:12:27

Number six, the darkness is the opportunity to reveal

1:12:29

the most light. Number seven, forget the outcome.

1:12:31

It's about who you get to become by showing

1:12:33

yourself that you can show up for things

1:12:35

that you thought you weren't capable of. That's

1:12:38

the greatest reward. Number eight,

1:12:40

the opposite of fear is not certainty. It's

1:12:42

infinite possibility. That's what your soul truly wants.

1:12:44

number nine, it is all meant to

1:12:46

be that easy. And it is that easy

1:12:49

when you're having fun all the time

1:12:51

because you realize that you're always in the

1:12:53

right place at the right time. Have

1:12:55

the audacity to have a blast wherever the

1:12:57

F you are. This past

1:12:59

week, it's just been such an incredible, just

1:13:01

like love bomb. So thank you. We're

1:13:03

just so grateful. If you're enjoying this podcast,

1:13:05

please follow along and podcast or on

1:13:07

Spotify or wherever you're listening. And if you

1:13:09

feel like leaving a review, I love

1:13:11

reading your reviews for this podcast. And I

1:13:13

love reading your reviews for the book.

1:13:15

We're actually doing a thank you. And if

1:13:18

you go to my Instagram and you

1:13:20

DM me a screenshot of your book review,

1:13:22

we'll be sending you a code so

1:13:24

that you can go get a Starbucks on

1:13:26

me. Finally, I'm actually doing an event

1:13:28

with my friend Emily McDowell who's so, so

1:13:30

cool. We're doing an event in Los

1:13:32

Angeles in person on December 15th at

1:13:34

what's called Riverbank LA. you want to

1:13:36

come, you can grab your spot at

1:13:38

kathyheller.com/holiday. We'll be doing some meditation, some

1:13:40

journaling. It's going to be pretty magical.

1:13:42

So if you want to grab a

1:13:44

spot and be with us in person,

1:13:46

if you live in the LA area

1:13:48

December 15th, that's next Sunday, you can

1:13:50

go to kathyheller.com/holiday and grab your seat.

1:13:52

I love you very much. I'm so,

1:13:54

so appreciative of you. Thank you for

1:13:56

being on this journey with me. You

1:13:58

are truly the best. Have an amazing week.

1:14:00

week.