0:04

Hello. Daytime

0:08

recording. I

0:11

know. I know.

0:14

Daytime recording. I

0:16

know. The sun

0:19

is out, spring

0:22

is here.

0:24

Yep. It's

0:26

too hot. I'm

0:29

sorry. It's not quite soon

0:31

enough to say hot enough

0:33

for you. So sorry about

0:36

that. Yeah, although I did

0:38

say that to somebody the

0:40

other day. Yeah, yeah. Oh my

0:42

God. I want to show you

0:45

something. So my son Gene told

0:47

me the other day that they've

0:49

been asked at school to

0:52

design a book cover. Give

0:54

him free reign. Right. And

0:56

that was his book cover.

0:59

Oh, yeah. I could have this wrong, is

1:01

that the devil? Yeah, so

1:03

it's certainly, you know, it's

1:05

some kind of demonic figure.

1:07

Yeah. So it's some, it's

1:09

like a skeleton, but with

1:11

horns. Devil's horns and then

1:13

a black cloak. Yeah, it's in

1:15

a black robes cloak, I don't

1:17

know what you call that. And

1:19

then it's holding up some

1:22

kind of quasi religious

1:24

scepter. And then over the top

1:26

in a type face that. I

1:29

think it's meant to resemble dripping

1:31

blood. Yeah. It says no

1:33

happiness. Oh, I did quite no

1:35

happiness. Yeah, no happiness.

1:37

Okay, okay. So here's what I

1:39

want to know. Yes. Why haven't

1:42

I been asked into the school

1:44

for a chance? I sort of

1:46

think that you're weird. Yeah,

1:48

thought so, wouldn't you? Like, I

1:51

feel, yeah, maybe the school is

1:53

at fault here. Like, I want...

1:55

a psychologist at the level of

1:57

the one from adolescence on this

1:59

situation. He's such a happy boy!

2:01

So weird! This is, well this

2:03

is the problem. His art is

2:05

like telling him to choose them.

2:07

Well, here's what I've been thinking

2:10

about this. So, you know, when

2:12

somebody turns out to be a

2:14

serial killer, the cliche is that

2:16

people say, God, you never have

2:18

known, and he just seems so

2:20

normal. So I'm trying to tell

2:22

myself that the ones who turn

2:24

out to be quite disturbed or

2:26

violent aren't designing book covers with...

2:28

no happiness in dripping blood letters.

2:30

Ah, they're keeping that sort of

2:32

thing more repressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

2:35

yeah, it's the happy go lucky

2:37

ones who are writing happy, happy,

2:39

no happiness in the, in the,

2:41

in the style of a murder

2:43

scene. I've been, I don't know,

2:45

an interesting thing about the world

2:47

we live in now is 10,

2:49

15 years ago, if I said,

2:51

did you see this thing on

2:53

TV? There's a, good chance that

2:55

someone had seen it. Because, you

2:57

know, if you are in of

3:00

an evening, you got TV on,

3:02

there's not that many things to

3:04

say. And that's increased throughout our

3:06

lifetime. But now we're at the

3:08

point with TikTok and Reals, where

3:10

I'll see stuff, and I'll think,

3:12

God, I'm getting this stuff all

3:14

the time. This is all anybody's

3:16

talking about. But I've got no

3:18

idea if that's true or not,

3:20

because the algorithm just gives you

3:22

stuff for you. So I am

3:25

seeing a lot of, like, TikTok

3:27

reaction to the show adolescence. And

3:29

they're seen with the psychology. I

3:31

think people know what. Joe, it's

3:33

broken record. It's the first time

3:35

that the most viewed show in

3:37

the country in a week isn't

3:39

on a real TV channel. That's

3:41

so interesting. So in the past,

3:43

it's always been like, I don't

3:45

know, Eastenders or Britain's got talent

3:47

or Coronation Street. And the streamers

3:50

usually don't come close. And this

3:52

is the most watched show. So

3:54

I feel like it's to buck

3:56

the trend. Have you not watched

3:58

it? Yeah. Only because me and

4:00

Tom both want to see it,

4:02

so we have to watch it

4:04

together, but we're ships in the

4:06

night at the moment, so it

4:08

just hasn't happened. It's really not

4:10

my watch it on my own.

4:12

I sometimes get shits in the

4:15

night. It's not nice. It's not

4:17

nice. It's in the night. Ships!

4:19

Ships in the night. Oh, sorry.

4:21

Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

4:23

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Moving on, so

4:25

I see a lot of people

4:27

talking about that show on TikTok

4:29

and Reels and I got one

4:31

the other day and there's a

4:33

subtle thing in the show that

4:35

the boy at the centre of

4:37

it who's you know been accused

4:40

of murder of killing a girl

4:42

and it's about toxic masculinity and

4:44

blah blah blah blah. There's a

4:46

bit, there's a subtle strand that

4:48

he always loved drawing and perhaps

4:50

that wasn't nurtured in his family.

4:52

Right? And the whole point of

4:54

this show is it's not one

4:56

thing. It's never one thing. It's

4:58

like a thousand different factors and

5:00

you know you can't just blame

5:02

the parents although there's accountability there

5:05

and you can't just blame the

5:07

school and you can't just blame

5:09

social media and you can't just

5:11

blame video against it so you

5:13

know that that's a tiny thing

5:15

in the mix of it. So

5:17

I see this tick-top video where

5:19

it's that it's someone talking very

5:21

earnestly about that thread and about

5:23

you know this is why it's

5:25

really important to to encourage your

5:27

kids with the creativity and art

5:30

because you know this this is

5:32

where it can all lead. And

5:34

I said I'm not sure if

5:36

the Shea whilst singling that aspect

5:38

how it was sort of throwing

5:40

it into the mix of a

5:42

thousand different things, but this was

5:44

the one she chosen to go

5:46

with. And then in all seriousness,

5:48

she then extrapolates this to say

5:50

the natural conclusion, she's not joking,

5:52

the natural conclusion of not encouraging

5:55

your kids with their art is

5:57

Adolf Hitler. Right, but he did

5:59

a lot of art, right? Yeah,

6:01

yeah. So he was encouraged with

6:03

his art. Yeah, I think, you

6:05

know, there were some brutal things

6:07

about his childhood and bullying and

6:09

his family and things, and I

6:11

don't know what his family thought

6:13

of his art, I haven't read

6:15

extensively, but I don't think that

6:17

was the thing. I don't, yeah,

6:20

and even, you know, if you

6:22

say, well, it's not, it's just

6:24

his childhood, even if he'd been

6:26

more embraced by the Vionese art

6:28

scene, I'm still not sure that

6:30

would have scratched the itch for

6:32

him in terms of the damage

6:34

that had been done by that

6:36

state, and I'm not sure that

6:38

he would really have been able

6:40

to express all that rage and

6:42

hatred onto the canvas in his

6:45

paintings and buildings and buildings and

6:47

buildings and bridges. It doesn't, doesn't,

6:49

doesn't... quite follow. And then, sort

6:51

of after watching that, I fell

6:53

down this rabbit hole of reading

6:55

about Adolf Hitler's art. Oh, did

6:57

you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one

6:59

of the details was that now

7:01

they go up for auction quite

7:03

regularly. So 14 paintings of his

7:05

was sold, I think three years

7:07

ago, for 391,000 euros. 14 for

7:10

that amount. Yeah, that's interesting to

7:12

me. Tell me why. Because I,

7:14

okay, so I've got two feelings

7:16

here. First of all, I think,

7:18

I'm surprised it's not more. And

7:20

secondly, I think, who is buying

7:22

those? Yeah, yeah, it's funny. Obviously,

7:24

trying to go, you would say

7:26

that it's painting to worth more

7:28

than that. But then the weird

7:30

thing is. Is those going to

7:32

increase in value exponentially? And it's

7:35

like, it's a bleak thing about

7:37

human beings, I think, maybe there's

7:39

another way of looking at it,

7:41

but I think it's a bleak

7:43

thing about human beings that, because

7:45

he's arguably the worst person in

7:47

history, and it's still in living

7:49

memory, so you've got people who's

7:51

immediate family, aren't here because of

7:53

it, and people whose lives are

7:55

devastated, and families who are incomplete.

7:57

because of the Holocaust. Like, it's,

8:00

it, of course, no one's gonna

8:02

pay that much for an Adolf

8:04

Hitler painting. But then there's like

8:06

a weird thing about history, isn't

8:08

it, that, you know, the more

8:10

years go on, and the less

8:12

it's directly impacted the lives of

8:14

living people. Yeah. without going a

8:16

couple, not to be about intergenerational

8:18

trauma, but you know what I

8:20

mean. You know, the years just

8:22

numb it, like think about cafe

8:25

Nero. I wasn't there like Nero,

8:27

like one of the cruelest Roman

8:29

emperors and burning people alive and

8:31

stuff. I always thought they were

8:33

just like Nero was in black

8:35

like was it like having cafe

8:37

Hitler in like 200 years yeah

8:39

yeah yeah yeah yeah I used

8:41

to I used to go to

8:43

a Mongolian restaurant called Gagas Khan's

8:45

barbecue yeah true yeah it was

8:48

one of the most brutal people

8:50

in history yeah and it just

8:52

stands to reason that at some

8:54

point like there's there's gonna be

8:56

cafe Hitler or Hitler tea rooms

8:58

and people will be doing funny

9:00

selfies with statues of Hitler, because

9:02

that's a weird thing about history,

9:04

isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which,

9:06

you know, maybe the sort of

9:08

self-protection, you know, the way that

9:10

we process the trauma of history,

9:13

that's part of it. But it

9:15

also, standing at this point, not

9:17

that many years out of the

9:19

20th century, it's really bleak that

9:21

that's how things go. And then

9:23

if you think about it, like,

9:25

you know. if there was a

9:27

series of caricatures by Attila the

9:29

Hun, like they'd be going for

9:31

a lot more than 391,000. Yeah,

9:33

yeah, yeah. And you know, it's

9:35

bleak to think that those those

9:38

paintings will only increase in value.

9:40

You never should have bought them.

9:42

Great investment. Well, the other thing

9:44

is like, who is buying those?

9:46

So like, you go around someone's

9:48

house. Oh, that's a nice painting

9:50

of a Bavarian castle. Where did

9:52

you get that from? Just look

9:54

closely at the signature. Oh, it's

9:56

so weird. Isn't it? No, you

9:58

can't. I mean, somebody's just got

10:00

them in a box somewhere. Surely,

10:03

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because

10:05

that's a bleak otherwise. And then,

10:07

maybe somebody just bought them in

10:09

the hope that Elon Musk is

10:11

going to want to buy them

10:13

one day. And then on the

10:15

subject like who's got Hitler paintings

10:17

on the wars, I remembered. So

10:19

do you remember me going through

10:21

quite a long phase of being

10:23

fascinated by Michael Winter? Yes. The

10:25

late film director. I do remember

10:28

this, yeah. Pigish late film director

10:30

who... It just seemed like... It

10:32

was a raconteur and also reading

10:34

between the lines, one of the

10:36

worst people that's ever lived. So,

10:38

I dug this out this morning

10:40

and forgotten all about it, so

10:42

I was thinking about the story.

10:44

It's an extract from one of

10:46

Michael Winner's many autobiographies or memoirs.

10:48

Since you're on the subject, I'll

10:50

talk about Hitler. And I just

10:53

want to say Michael Winner was

10:55

Jewish, which is not irrelevant in

10:57

this and perhaps makes it better.

10:59

you know, there's something going on

11:01

that makes it less awful. I

11:03

too found it interested to watch

11:05

the goings. of the Nazi party

11:07

and World War II stuff because

11:09

I lived through World War II.

11:11

I have two photographs of Hitler

11:13

on my mantelpiece. What? I also

11:15

have two photographs of Winston Churchill

11:18

because at the time of the

11:20

war the two great adversaries were

11:22

Churchill and Hitler. One represented goodness

11:24

and the other represented total evil.

11:26

So I watch Hitler documentaries every

11:28

night. Once he wasn't there and

11:30

after what was Salini, that was

11:32

a disappointment I can tell you.

11:34

That does not explain why he's

11:36

got him on his mental parts.

11:38

No! So, so, so, so the

11:40

most kind part of me things,

11:43

there's, you know, there's a very

11:45

real lesson in history to be

11:47

learned by what happened in the

11:49

middle of the 20th century and

11:51

we must have forgotten to keep

11:53

alive. Okay, that would be the

11:55

very, very, very, very, very, very,

11:57

very, very kind. If I find

11:59

the kindest version of that in

12:01

my head, I can kind of

12:03

get to a state where maybe

12:05

like in some quasi, in some

12:08

like old religious art, you might

12:10

have a picture of the devil

12:12

in the picture of Christ. And

12:14

so then his version of that

12:16

is on his mantle, having a

12:18

photograph of Hitler and photograph of

12:20

church hell. Where a struggle. So,

12:22

you know, where, where, whatever bit

12:24

of logic that I'm. stretching very

12:26

thinly to get there. Where a

12:28

struggle is the point at which

12:30

he got the second photograph. Yes.

12:33

Yes, not just one. Why would

12:35

you do that? I guess, I

12:37

don't know. Different backdrop. I did

12:39

not know. I did not know

12:41

that. That is so weird. Yeah.

12:43

And he didn't get, I mean,

12:45

that sort of thing that would

12:47

get you cancelled now to cancelling

12:49

not exist back then. I guess.

12:51

Evidently not. Evidently not. Evidently not.

12:53

And certainly not back in the

12:55

middle of the middle of the

12:58

20th 20th century. Okay, shall we

13:00

hear from the drifters now? Yes,

13:02

let's start off with a very

13:04

small piece of any other business.

13:06

Remember Freddie last week and his

13:08

boss with the single long nail?

13:10

And we speculated it was for

13:12

playing the guitar. Yes. He writes,

13:14

my belief is that it's for

13:16

taking illicit substances. Oh, we're so

13:18

naive, aren't we? I might be

13:20

so innocent. And this could be

13:23

awful liable, but I hope this

13:25

clears up the misunderstanding. I don't

13:27

think we named him, did we?

13:29

No. No. We're not going to

13:31

Chris in Santa Rosa. My second

13:33

year at Liverpool University, a friend

13:35

got a part in a play

13:37

and I was keen to go

13:39

and support him. I had a

13:41

quick look at the map, this

13:43

was the 80s, jumped on a

13:45

bus and headed to where I

13:48

thought the theatre was. Got off

13:50

the bus and what turned out

13:52

to be completely the wrong stop

13:54

and headed down a side street

13:56

that my memory of the map

13:58

told me the theatre was on.

14:00

Ten minutes of fruitless searching later,

14:02

I ended up back at the

14:04

street I'd first had first headed

14:06

down. At this point, a lady

14:08

in a lady in a very

14:10

short dress. Are you looking for

14:13

something in love? Yes, can you

14:15

tell me where the unicorn theater

14:17

is? Oh! S off and stop

14:19

wasting my time! It was only

14:21

on the pass back to the

14:23

halls of residence that it dawned

14:25

on me what she'd actually been

14:27

offering. Oh, how sweet. Yeah, innocent

14:29

drifters in a sleazy world. Yes,

14:31

anything on that is good. And

14:33

this is from Ian on the

14:35

subject of surprise, undrifter like behavior.

14:38

I've got a little one like

14:40

that. So it's not quite like

14:42

that. So, so quite like that.

14:44

So when I was quite like

14:46

that. So when I was quite

14:48

like that. So when I was

14:50

quite like that. So when I

14:52

was quite like that. So when

14:54

I was quite like that. So

14:56

when I was quite like that.

14:58

So when I was quite like

15:00

that. So when I was a.

15:03

So when I was a. So

15:05

when I was a. So when

15:07

I was a. So when I

15:09

was a. So, I was a.

15:11

So, I was a. So, I

15:13

was a Generally, I could get

15:15

a train there, occasionally my dad

15:17

would drive me to work at

15:19

an early morning shift, and I

15:21

was offered a week of covering,

15:23

not breakfast shows. The boss was

15:25

going to cover the breakfast show,

15:28

but he didn't want to start

15:30

at six. He wanted to start

15:32

at seven instead. So he asked

15:34

me if I'd do six or

15:36

seven every morning. There's no way

15:38

of me getting there in time

15:40

to do that. So I thought,

15:42

oh, I can get a camp

15:44

bed and sleep in a studio,

15:46

which I did for a week.

15:48

You know, having to schlep back

15:50

to my mom and dad's house

15:53

to take a shower or whatever.

15:55

I thought, is there a way

15:57

of not doing that? I remember

15:59

saying to one of the guys

16:01

who worked there, I've seen these

16:03

classified ads in the back of

16:05

the evening news that say like

16:07

24 hours sauna and shower. Oh,

16:09

are you in the car? So

16:11

maybe you don't want to be

16:13

shot. Oh, that's so sweet. Okay,

16:15

this is an Ian on the

16:18

subject of surprise undrifter-like behavior. Yeah.

16:20

I took my son to watch

16:22

Nottingham Forest the other week. and

16:24

I've wanted to tell you this

16:26

ever since, but I haven't been

16:28

able to bring myself to do

16:30

it until now. I'm still deeply

16:32

traumatized by my actions and feel

16:34

sick thinking about it. At half-time

16:36

I queued up to get a

16:38

drink for each of this. I

16:40

say cue, but it was a

16:43

horribly unorganized hoard jostling for position,

16:45

like a weatherspoons on a Saturday

16:47

night. There isn't much space in

16:49

the concourse that everyone is pushed

16:51

up against each other, and presumably

16:53

all feeling as uncomfortable about it

16:55

as I was. I tried to

16:57

give the person in front as

16:59

much space as I could without

17:01

losing my place, but I had

17:03

a father and son behind me

17:05

that were pushed flat against my

17:08

back. I know it was horrendous.

17:10

The person in front turned round

17:12

to me and barked at me

17:14

too. and barked at me to

17:16

give him some space, at which

17:18

point my internal drifters were held

17:20

hostage by a stranger with confidence.

17:22

I snapped back and go where

17:24

into this child and pointed at

17:26

the child squashed between me and

17:28

his father. When the person in

17:30

front tried to carry on his

17:33

argument I told him to shut

17:35

up. To my surprise, he did.

17:37

I was... delirious by this uncharacteristic

17:39

behaviour. And there must have been

17:41

an adrenaline overdose because something in

17:43

the back of my mind told

17:45

me I needed to make a

17:47

sarcastic comment to seal his defeat.

17:49

But what to say? I know,

17:51

I know, Cupris. I'm smelling Cupris.

17:53

I'm not used to this level

17:55

of confidence and wouldn't ordinarily know

17:58

where to start. To my horror.

18:00

Before I could do myself, I...

18:02

I could do myself, I blurted

18:04

out, I could hump you if

18:06

you want me to invade your

18:08

space properly. Oh, you went nuclear.

18:10

What? Where did that come from?

18:12

Who is this lunatic I've become?

18:14

And I hope this story will

18:16

be told to him by his

18:18

friends. Obviously, I can never go

18:20

back to knotting him again. Oh,

18:23

that's fantastic. Yes, yes.

18:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:27

Oh, that's great. It's

18:29

like, it's like becoming

18:32

the incredible hulk of

18:34

drifters. Yes, yes. But

18:36

then the superpower wearing

18:38

off too quickly. Oh,

18:40

anything else like that,

18:42

please? Hello at adrift

18:44

podcast.com. I

18:56

know what's going on in the old

18:59

sub stack. Oh, thanks for asking. Now

19:01

listen, I've been thinking a lot about

19:03

what you said about how I've been

19:05

for my paying subscribers only charging two

19:08

pounds a month. I thought about it

19:10

a lot. I think you're right. I

19:12

think I'm not valuing my time. I'm

19:14

not valuing my writing. And so I've

19:16

decided on my two year anniversary. Two

19:19

years, which is at the end of

19:21

next month. I'm going to put my

19:23

prices up. I'm going to put my

19:25

prices up. something insignificant. But yeah, you

19:28

know, Rome wasn't built in a time,

19:30

was it? So, you know, you're the

19:32

same goes for yourself worth. Go on,

19:34

two pounds, fifty, three pounds? I'm going

19:36

to go three fifty, because actually that

19:39

is the minimum. That is the minimum

19:41

that you're allowed to charge on sub

19:43

stack. The only way I've got around

19:45

it before is by offering a permanent

19:47

discount. Oh, so. But you can still

19:50

do that thing, can't you wear if

19:52

people pay like a year and a

19:54

half? Yeah, yeah, get cheaper. Yeah, yeah.

19:56

If somebody's willing to pay 30 pounds

19:59

for a year's worth of contact. Yeah,

20:01

yeah, yeah. I mean this isn't set

20:03

in stone. I can see the look

20:05

and you're right. I'm thinking maybe I

20:07

should do two pound fifty. No, no,

20:10

no, no. I don't know. I think

20:12

that's right. I think that's right. So

20:14

that's my big news. So if you

20:16

do want to become a paying subscriber,

20:19

and when you are a paying subscriber

20:21

you get the whole archive and I've

20:23

put sort of the more personal ones

20:25

behind a payable because the less people

20:27

that see them are a bit too

20:30

personal. Like if you go for a

20:32

job into a job into a job

20:34

inter- So they're behind the table. Also,

20:36

the comment section is so lovely. I

20:39

have such nice chats in the comment

20:41

section. That's really nice. Yeah, yeah. So

20:43

they're really lovely. And I've got to

20:45

know people through that. And that's really,

20:47

really nice. And also an audio version.

20:50

Should you want to hear my voice

20:52

reading it out loud? Yeah. That's good.

20:54

So you do get some bonuses. Plus,

20:56

you know, you do get some bonuses.

20:59

Plus, you know, you know, it enriches

21:01

my life. And I'm my life. And

21:03

I'm sure. yours enriches the lives of

21:05

people who pay for it. I have

21:07

no doubt that that's the case. I

21:10

hope so. Own it Annabelle. I'm going

21:12

to own it. Yeah and also I

21:14

don't think it's great to have been

21:16

in a situation where you're kind of

21:18

undercutting other sub-stackers by... charging beneath the

21:21

minimum. You like sort of setting a

21:23

precedent for, you know, already creative workers

21:25

undervalued in our society and people are

21:27

struggling to make a living and then

21:30

people like you are coming along with

21:32

your two pounds. I should point out

21:34

that if you are currently paying two

21:36

pounds that's not going to change. Once

21:38

you're in, you're in, that's it. You're

21:41

locked in. So don't worry about that,

21:43

I still have my two-pound food. Don't

21:45

you worry about that, because you're my

21:47

loyal, but first two years ones. And

21:50

then this week I've written about three

21:52

times that I feel, the only three

21:54

times that I feel like a grown-up.

21:56

So you can find that Annabel Port.subsback.com.

21:58

On the subject of which, do you

22:01

have another way in which you don't

22:03

feel like a fully functioning at home?

22:05

Yes. So I'm going to start with

22:07

my unusual tolerance for something bad, if

22:10

it means spending money to make it.

22:12

Then we're going to move on to

22:14

terrible chronic indecisiveness. And then we're going

22:16

to finish with terrible chronic ineptitude. Now

22:18

it's a story of such epic proportions,

22:21

or just really long and boring, I'm

22:23

not sure, that I'm actually going to

22:25

do it in two parts and leave

22:27

today on a cliffhanger. And when I

22:30

say cliffhanger, what I really mean is

22:32

a small wall hanger. So, our front

22:34

door. Since the day I moved in,

22:36

14 years ago, has been very difficult

22:38

to both lock and unlock. Over the

22:41

years, I feel I've mastered this, but

22:43

if anyone else needs to get in,

22:45

like my mom, the dog walker, any

22:47

friends staying over, it's proved to be

22:50

somewhere between very hard and impossible. Over

22:52

the years, it's become more impossible for

22:54

me to lock it, to double lock

22:56

it. I wasn't going out the door

22:58

open and don't worry, but it wasn't

23:01

very safe and my insurance was in,

23:03

wasn't valid. To do it, and I

23:05

mentioned this a couple of years ago,

23:07

he had to slam it really, really

23:09

hard, like so hard that I worried

23:12

that I'm going to shatter the glass

23:14

in it. Then you have to ram

23:16

the door handle up really aggressively so

23:18

that my neighbours probably always think up

23:21

having a row with Tom as I

23:23

leave the house, then you have to

23:25

round the door handle up really aggressively

23:27

so that my neighbours probably always think

23:29

up having a row with Tom as

23:32

I leave. like flat shaking noises. I

23:34

did go through a phase of saying,

23:36

like butter, as I turn the key,

23:38

which worked, it worked for a long

23:41

time, about 18 months in fact. The

23:43

key did use to turn like a

23:45

knife through soft, but it was something

23:47

about talking to it. I don't know

23:49

what it was. I can't explain it.

23:52

I'm not sure why it worked, but

23:54

it did. But for the last six

23:56

months, nothing worked. And then for the

23:58

last three months, I also could open

24:01

the back. It's amazing how long I

24:03

put up with this. Well actually for

24:05

me it's not that amazing. But eventually

24:07

we decided we do need to get

24:09

a new front door. And also Tom

24:12

particularly was keen to get something that

24:14

allowed a bit more light into the

24:16

windowless hallway to make it less dungeon

24:18

light. Now it's not a cheap thing

24:21

of front door, did you've ever bought

24:23

a front door before? It's quite depressing.

24:25

Not in memory. No it's quite depressing.

24:27

But I did find a good place

24:29

by asking our neighbours where they got

24:32

theirs from. And then Tom and I

24:34

easily picked a colour together. All was

24:36

going great, but then we had to

24:38

choose the style of door and the

24:40

glass. Honestly, it was like I worked

24:43

for a particularly violent dictator who'd ordered

24:45

me to get a new door for

24:47

his palace and made it clear I'd

24:49

be killed very violently if I got

24:52

one detail wrong. I was so paralyzed

24:54

by indecision and it got so bad

24:56

that at one point as I couldn't

24:58

really envision the different options I used

25:00

a graphic design app to mock up

25:03

with the different options would look like

25:05

on our flat and it wasn't even

25:07

very good like mocking up. I mean,

25:09

I probably imagine these aren't my, this

25:12

isn't my skill set my skill set.

25:14

I do wonder if anyone's ever done

25:16

that before. They just couldn't envisage it,

25:18

so they had to do that. I'm

25:20

sure. I hope so. Maybe not as

25:23

clunkily as you did it, but maybe

25:25

not. Part of the problem was that

25:27

Tom and I just couldn't agree on

25:29

anything. He was very obsessed by getting

25:32

more light in the place, and I

25:34

was more obsessed by how it looked.

25:36

But all the options for the etched

25:38

glass that people couldn't really see in,

25:40

looked quite dated, quite dated to me.

25:43

you're from different generations. So you're in

25:45

the 50s and he's in his 30s.

25:47

But for this week only, also in

25:49

the two weeks only, I'm still surprised

25:52

at the company which we ordered it

25:54

from didn't at one point say, sorry

25:56

you need to take your business elsewhere,

25:58

just isn't worth it for us, because

26:00

I'd asked so many questions. And I'd

26:03

ask them to send so many photos

26:05

I could use for my mock top

26:07

images. I did at one point thinking

26:09

in a sentence that this might be

26:11

useful for someone else. aren't cheap, I

26:14

don't want to get it wrong. In

26:16

the end, the only thing we could

26:18

agree on was having clear glass, so

26:20

basically too long, see through panels into

26:23

our home. And weeks after we decided

26:25

we were getting the door, I was

26:27

able to call up and order it.

26:29

I did notice that the lady repeated

26:31

back to me, clear clear clear glass.

26:34

in a slightly questioning tone twice. Yes.

26:36

I also couldn't help her notice that

26:38

she rang me two days later saying

26:40

that it was going to be made

26:43

soon and everyone just wanted to check.

26:45

We definitely wanted clear glass. I'm thinking

26:47

like, you know, why is it an

26:49

option if it's so unusual? But I'm

26:51

really digging my heels in now. Bit

26:54

of shops. It's a shop that has

26:56

a clear glass door, isn't it? And

26:58

here is the low wall hanger. What

27:00

will happen next? Find out. Oh my

27:03

god, next week. Will Tom enjoy his

27:05

40th birthday present of a clear glass

27:07

front door? Stay tuned. Set me some

27:09

clippings. Hmm. I know your parking all

27:11

run out's hard. Maybe I'll just do

27:14

one. Yes, please. Yeah. From the Guardian.

27:16

Surging cost of cocoa. leads UK shoppers

27:18

to shell out more for smaller Easter

27:20

eggs. Prices of some chocolate products have

27:23

risen by 50% in a year. Well

27:25

many have also shrunk in size. Which

27:27

magazine have been investigating it? This is

27:29

interesting to me. So I cancelled my

27:31

subscription to which. How did you? Yeah.

27:34

It's one of those where I wanted

27:36

to read a review of a tumbledriver.

27:38

Once. Yeah, but you know how difficult

27:40

they make it? Oh, you can't press

27:42

and subscribe or do it online. You

27:45

have to ring and speak to somebody

27:47

whose job it is to stop you

27:49

from unsubscribe. Yeah, I've been through all

27:51

this. Yeah, it is difficult. How many

27:54

years did you put up with? Oh,

27:56

years. Did you get the magazine? Yeah,

27:58

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like it was on

28:00

a different calendar. Yes. The only way

28:02

I could, you know, the way I

28:05

got through it, and I felt rude,

28:07

but... You know when people in police

28:09

interviews have just been instructed by their

28:11

solicit to say no comment. I wrote

28:14

down. I'm so sorry I don't have

28:16

time to talk about this I'd just

28:18

like you to cancel it please and

28:20

every question he asked me I just

28:22

repeated that I'm so sorry I don't

28:25

really like a politician on newsnight and

28:27

it worked so I knew that I'd

28:29

be on the phone for half an

28:31

hour and come away with like a

28:34

half price subscription that I didn't want

28:36

that went up to five times as

28:38

much in January yeah yeah yeah yeah

28:40

yeah yeah but but but I am

28:42

intrigued by this story because like I've

28:45

noticed like If I get a cream

28:47

egg, it won't stand up in the

28:49

egg cup anymore. So they're definitely getting

28:51

smaller. I think there's such thing like,

28:54

you know, you know, the super rich,

28:56

they buy things products that we don't

28:58

even know because they're in such rarest.

29:00

I think there's such thing as a

29:02

Maxiag. I said a mini egg, they

29:05

get a bag of the... Yeah. And

29:07

they're like... Yet he's a chainsaw to

29:09

get into it. Yeah, like you know

29:11

like when a hamster's holding a grape

29:14

or something grapes right to feed hamsters

29:16

I can't remember but a hamster with

29:18

a big fruit or vegetable on a

29:20

maxiac, gnawing on it like a beaver

29:22

really mixing my animal metaphors here. This

29:25

continues. Gonna get onto to a bit

29:27

that I find interesting. Little. An 80-gram

29:29

pouch of Terry's chocolate orange mini eggs

29:31

was 99P in the run-up to Easter

29:33

2024. So they've had a team on

29:36

this for some time. Right, right, yeah.

29:38

Of course, yeah, busy. Which, however, in

29:40

2025, it was not only more expensive

29:42

at 1 pound 35, it had shrunk

29:45

to 70 grams. This equates to arise

29:47

of 56% per hundred grams. First

29:49

of all, I was in a

29:52

branch of Iceland with one of

29:54

my best friends recently and he

29:56

told me to look at the

29:58

unit price and it's changed my

30:00

life forever. Oh yeah, you don't

30:02

know about the unit price. No.

30:04

I just see a multi bag

30:06

and think, oh that must be

30:08

cheaper. And then often they're more

30:11

expensive. And I do the price

30:13

per hundred grams. Oh I'm obsessed

30:15

by that. No, I just sort

30:17

of think, oh that's big so

30:19

they must, it must be cheaper.

30:21

Completely rolling rolls, I do like

30:23

price per sheet. I do, I

30:25

do. Anyway, the reason that I

30:28

wanted to dig in here was

30:30

I didn't know there were Terry's

30:32

chocolate orange mini eggs, number one.

30:34

Okay. Secondly, how do you think

30:36

Terry feels about... the chocolate orange.

30:38

Do you think it's like a

30:40

radio head never felt comfortable with

30:42

creep for a long time because

30:45

it wasn't you know it wasn't

30:47

thing that they felt represented them

30:49

the best but it was the

30:51

thing that the world knew them

30:53

for and I wonder if Terry

30:55

feels like that about the chocolate

30:57

orange. But has Terry got other

30:59

big hits? Well this is this

31:01

this is what I started then

31:04

thinking about the rabbit hole I

31:06

went on. Oh go on. So

31:08

Terry's chocolate orange was introduced to

31:10

the 1920 20s. Wow. Then in

31:12

1924 they introduced Terry's Desert Chocolate

31:14

Apple. Stop it. I'm sorry the

31:16

chocolate orange is later than the

31:18

chocolate apple. So there was originally

31:21

Terry's Chocolate Apple. No. Which was

31:23

phased out. Apple-flavored chocolate. Disgusting. Yes.

31:25

Oh my God. And then in

31:27

19... So the apple was the

31:29

prototype. And people like this is

31:31

disgusting. They want to go back

31:33

to the drawing board. But hang

31:35

on, what about an orange? What

31:38

else is around? Yeah. In 1979,

31:40

there was Terry's chocolate lemon. There

31:42

was no... Hmm. But it's withdrawn

31:44

three years later. Because no one

31:46

liked it. Yeah. This guy is

31:48

a Maverick. Yeah, I mean, he's

31:50

not like Radiohead as it turns

31:52

out. Yeah, because he has no

31:54

other big kids. Did he not

31:57

do anything? Yeah, well, what about

31:59

the pyramid? Yeah, well, this is

32:01

it. There's all these things that

32:03

you're... So, pyramid. Yeah. I say

32:05

anyone I can think of, I'd

32:07

love to pyramid. Terry's Twilight and

32:09

Terry's Moonlight? No, thanks. Never heard

32:11

of them. Terry's animal friends. Nope.

32:14

You don't remember like a box

32:16

of chocolate shaped like animals. That's

32:18

Terry's. Are you sure? Oh no,

32:20

I think Terry was trying to

32:22

piggy, but those were the biscuity

32:24

ones, weren't? That wouldn't have been

32:26

Terry. There's something called Terry's Wafer,

32:28

which was, I think, supposed to

32:31

be a competitor for the Kit

32:33

Kat. No. Which is in 1952.

32:35

No awareness of it. Terry's Theobroma?

32:37

What? An assortment box of chocolates

32:39

in a book-shaped box? Oh, I

32:41

like the sound of that. Terry's

32:43

Spartan? No. An assorted box of

32:45

hard-centered chocolates launched in 1921. Oh

32:47

my God. Now I'm going to

32:50

give you one the biggest hit.

32:52

Okay, come on, come up. Terry's

32:54

all-gold. Of course. Yeah, all right,

32:56

then, fair enough. Discont continued in

32:58

2020. It once held a fifth.

33:00

of the box of chocolate's market.

33:02

Really? Goes to show? Never like

33:04

that. Don't get complacent. Terry's logger?

33:07

Don't be a competitor for the

33:09

yorky? Nope. Terry's bits, BITZ. Yeah,

33:11

yeah, yeah. Terry's carousel, Terry's Marsapan.

33:13

Terry's take two? Nope. Oh, and

33:15

I do remember a take two.

33:17

Yeah, yeah, I do. Oh, because

33:19

it's mentally so you'd be into

33:21

that. It sounds like they were

33:24

trying to eat something to eat

33:26

into the fries into the fries.

33:28

market. I feel like Terry, you

33:30

just need one big idea. You

33:32

had your big idea. It wasn't

33:34

the apple, it was the orange.

33:36

Terry's Harlequin? I remember that. A

33:38

box of wrapped milk chocolate ingots?

33:40

Yeah, I do remember that. Harlequin

33:43

feels like of an age, doesn't

33:45

it? There's something exotic about Harlequin

33:47

in the age of like Piero

33:49

and stuff. Terry's moments aimed at

33:51

women? Yeah, I remember that. Terry's

33:53

3D. What? I'm trying to get

33:55

modern. That's what it sounds like,

33:57

doesn't it? But, like, there's the

34:00

implication there that... the other Terry

34:02

chocolates had less than three dimensions.

34:04

He's like, what's important?

34:06

Next we're doing Terry's

34:08

NFTs? Terry's 1767? What? I have

34:10

no idea why. I looked up

34:12

that year and there were some

34:14

various like terrorists brought

34:17

in in trade with America

34:19

but didn't seem less significant

34:21

year in history. This

34:23

sounds nice though. Terry's

34:26

fruit flavoured filled block.

34:28

Block, filled block. I don't

34:30

think so. Terry didn't have

34:32

it, did he? He needs a

34:34

new copyright, I don't know. Terry's

34:37

the guy with one good idea,

34:39

isn't it? Terry's the person who

34:41

has the one viral video. You

34:44

really need one. And then he's

34:46

constantly thinking, people

34:49

seem to like that. No, retire,

34:51

retire, yeah. That's your legacy,

34:53

Terry. Yeah. Okay. Quadriforna

34:59

at the GLAP Clinic

35:02

here in problematic. This

35:04

is from Alice. What is the correct

35:06

etiquette for saying your name when you

35:08

arrive for an appointment? I always seem

35:10

to mess it up. Do you say

35:12

your first name only? Your last name?

35:14

Your full name? Or do you say

35:16

the time you booked in for? Or

35:18

the name of the doctor, dentist, paleontologist?

35:20

In what order? I'm constantly thinking about

35:22

it so much that I just say

35:24

something stupid like, hi, it's Alice or

35:26

the slightly stroppy sounding Dr. Javago, 9am.

35:28

And what if you have to wait

35:30

there while they find you on the

35:32

system? Do you stand in silence or

35:35

attempt the dreaded small talk? Please

35:37

advise, I've got the hygienist in

35:39

a few weeks. Okay, so these, I had

35:41

a meeting yesterday and trying to think what

35:43

I said. said hi I'm hit see Tim at

35:45

1030 what name is it please I was Jeff

35:47

small place if it had been a bigger place

35:49

so that was a place where it felt like

35:52

it had maybe 30 employees right right right so

35:54

you said the you said the name and the time

35:56

said hi I've got a I'm hit see Tim at

35:58

11th yeah okay I think the time Yeah, and

36:00

then let them ask my name. I'll

36:02

say it's Jeff. If it was a

36:05

bigger place, I'd say here, I'm here

36:07

to, I'd say the surname. I'm here

36:09

to see Timbuktu at 1130. What name

36:11

is it? It's Jeff Lloyd. So I

36:14

think that answers that question. It's something

36:16

to do with the size of the

36:18

place. Intimacy. But you don't suggest going

36:20

in saying hello, it's Annabel Ford, I've

36:23

got an appointment at 9 a.m. I

36:25

feel that's a lot of information, it's

36:27

a mouthful, and I feel that's a

36:29

lot of information, it's a mouthful, and

36:32

I feel that I stumble over my

36:34

words if I'm saying... them the time

36:36

and the name of the person I'm

36:38

seeing and let them ask my name.

36:41

And if it's a doctor and you

36:43

don't actually know the doctor. So let's

36:45

think about... This is where I struggle

36:47

with it. Yeah so go to the

36:49

doctors. If they've got a touch screen

36:52

always use that rather than interact with

36:54

the human and then I've got an

36:56

11-30 appointment with the nurse, what name

36:58

is it? And then I would tend

37:01

to say my name and possibly even

37:03

spell it as well. Okay, this is

37:05

all good to know. Okay, so you

37:07

just, you go in with the time,

37:10

the time, super helpful, and you're seeing.

37:12

Yeah, great, wow. Yeah, that was good.

37:14

Yeah, this is so you, honestly, it's

37:16

just so useful to me because I

37:19

never know what to say. And I

37:21

rehearse all the weeks, I never know

37:23

what to say. And I rehearse all

37:25

the different options on the way there.

37:28

Yeah, and I rehearse all the different

37:30

options on the way. Because you want

37:32

to say it's. Oh no, because they're

37:34

busy. Yeah, or you can kind of

37:37

smile but not, but look away from,

37:39

you know, don't make them feel like

37:41

you're sort of staring over the shoulder.

37:43

Okay. The worst one, as I've said

37:46

before, is too receptionist. Oh, you don't

37:48

know which one to go to. Yeah.

37:50

Because I don't want to be sitting

37:52

to be rejecting one. How do you

37:55

pick then? I do. I walk in

37:57

and I'm very, yeah, I'm very much

37:59

picking to both of them. Say, hello,

38:01

as I walk up towards them, I'm

38:04

like, hello, and I'm moving my eyes

38:06

from one to the other. And see,

38:08

you could do the most attention. Yeah,

38:10

and then the one... who gives me

38:13

the most attention, I then smile at

38:15

the other one and then revert my

38:17

attention to me. Oh, so skilled! I

38:19

love this! Oh, that's very nicely answered.

38:22

And you know, it can be very

38:24

uncomfortable if there is like an age

38:26

discrepancy. I'd say the both women, I

38:28

don't want to look like a dirty

38:31

old man picking the young one. Yeah,

38:33

yeah, yeah. But I don't want to

38:35

look like, you know, a boomer who

38:37

thinks that shouldn't be... talking to a

38:40

young person that they're all fat-class. This

38:42

is very complex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

38:44

I hope that's enough to be going

38:46

on Alice. Good luck. Let us know

38:49

how it goes. And

39:11

that was our podcast, thank you

39:13

for listening. Send us your quandary

39:15

for quandary corner, or your story

39:18

of social ineptitude, or your poddication.

39:20

Hello at adriftpodcast.com. Thanks to Man

39:22

and the Echo for the Back

39:24

of Music and to Emily Harrison

39:26

for the incidental music. Carlegalet took

39:28

her photos. Kim Raney designed our

39:30

artwork. I feel like I should

39:32

be ending this week by... Do

39:34

you want me to hump me

39:36

to hump you? But I would

39:39

like to end this week, not

39:41

that he would ever hear it.

39:43

Wishing your handsome young lover Tom,

39:45

a happy 40th birthday, because I

39:47

forgot to get a car. Happy

39:49

birthday Tom! This

40:04

comes from Ian. Ian from earlier, Nottingham

40:06

Forest. Oh, is that right? Mr Hubbian,

40:08

yes. I was good saying, so last

40:10

week my son's spellings for school were

40:13

all things like magician, politician, statistician, and

40:15

my way of helping him remember them

40:17

was like, I think of it as

40:19

like magic Ian. Oh, that's good. statistic,

40:21

Ian. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's

40:24

that helpful or a certain way, but

40:26

anyway, but Ian is one of these

40:28

ones whose fantasies got the extra eye

40:30

in his nose. Oh, it doesn't work

40:32

for him then. No. No. Please, could

40:35

you predicate the show on the 26th

40:37

and March? To my son, who turns

40:39

13 that day, sorry for the profanity

40:41

earlier, but you know, I just felt

40:43

like I had to. Maybe he's only

40:46

just listening to him. Felt like a

40:48

cheap laugh that I wanted to go

40:50

for. I don't do it very often.

40:52

No, never. On this podcast, the other

40:54

one. Bad influence, bad influence on me.

40:57

I can think of no better present

40:59

than people who have been made to

41:01

listen to a podcast. That gives a

41:03

terrifying insight into what his father features

41:05

on this podcast. Oh, heavily, yeah, with

41:08

the humping. Yeah, each generation hopefully is

41:10

an improvement on the last. Not exactly.

41:12

None of us are perfect, as parents

41:14

are things that we pass on inadvertently,

41:16

but I'm sure that he's an improvement

41:19

on you, and I have no doubt.

41:21

Also, he says, on the subject of

41:23

irrational fears, growing up, my cousin had

41:25

a Teddy Ruckspin, a Teddy bear that

41:27

you put a tape in and you

41:30

read it a story, but the mouth

41:32

moved in time with the words. Sorry,

41:34

it read you a story, but the

41:36

mouth moved in time with the words

41:38

and the eyes blinked and it creeped

41:41

me out beyond belief. I hated that

41:43

thing with a burning passion that I

41:45

still feel now. Yeah, anything in that

41:47

area, things that's supposed to look like

41:49

they're talking. They've moved away from there

41:52

now, like you've got some of the

41:54

yottos and all that, they don't tend

41:56

to have a creature that moves its

41:58

mouth anymore. No, don't my son's got

42:00

one, what is it called? He was

42:03

desperate for it and we got him

42:05

and he never bothered with it. For

42:07

real, I think it's cool. Yeah, I

42:09

think they still try a bit of

42:12

that. I'll tell you what, they don't

42:14

advertise so much. I don't think, maybe

42:16

I'm just, I'm just not watching children's

42:18

TV with adverts TV with adverts TV

42:20

with adverts TV with adverts TV with

42:23

adverts TV with adverts on it, adverts

42:25

TV with adverts on it, with adverts

42:27

on it, but, but, but, but, but,

42:29

but, like, like, like, like, like, like,

42:31

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

42:34

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

42:36

like, like, like, like, like, like, That

42:38

was a big thing, wasn't it? Massive,

42:40

yeah, tiny tears, it would weed, change

42:42

its nothing. It cries real tears. That's

42:45

a good bit. And urine comes out

42:47

of this tiny little hole. Yeah, oh

42:49

God, that's so weird. What were we

42:51

thinking of? Happy birthday, I hope you

42:53

have a wonderful day. Sorry about everything.

42:56

Yeah. But you know, it's good to

42:58

view, but at some point. Maybe not

43:00

at 13, but maybe at some point

43:02

in your 20s, you'll be able to

43:04

view some compassion. Yeah, I hope so.

43:07

You know, we're all just products of

43:09

our own past. Happy birthday, have a

43:11

brilliant time. Don't end up like the

43:13

kid from adolescence. Jeff. That's what we're

43:15

all thinking. It's a big talking point.

43:18

By which I mean? By which I

43:20

mean Ian. encourage the drawing. Yeah it

43:22

was of course. Because we know where

43:24

that ends up. Exactly. And if you

43:26

would like a podcast it's hello at

43:29

adrift podcast.com.