0:00

Joe, did you ever advise your mom

0:02

on asset allocation? I actually just

0:04

did. Some people may know my

0:06

dad passed away this last spring

0:08

just under a year ago, and

0:11

so my mom when she received

0:13

some life insurance money and she

0:15

was redeploying her assets for one

0:17

person versus two, I got to

0:19

walk mom through the efficient frontier again.

0:22

Oh, she's learning from the

0:24

best. Well, thank you. Stop, stop, stop.

0:26

Ah, keep going, keep going. Well,

0:28

today we are going to talk

0:30

to a caller who is helping

0:32

her mom figure out how to

0:35

invest as she approaches the most

0:37

critical years of making sure you're

0:39

getting it right. We're going to

0:41

help her through that. We're also

0:43

going to talk to a return

0:45

caller. This is somebody who spoke

0:47

to us in 2022 with a

0:49

question about whole life insurance and

0:51

she's calling with an update and

0:53

a follow-up question. And for the

0:56

true money nerds out there, we

0:58

are going to dive deep with

1:00

the numbers for a caller who

1:02

says that by the time this

1:04

episode airs, his wife will likely

1:06

have quit her job. Oh, you

1:09

ready Joe? I'm buckled up. Welcome

1:11

to the Afford Anything podcast,

1:14

the show that understands you

1:16

can afford anything but not

1:18

everything. Every choice carries a

1:20

trade-off and that applies to

1:22

your money, time, focus, and

1:24

energy. This show covers five

1:26

pillars. Financial psychology, increasing your

1:28

income, investing, real estate, and

1:30

entrepreneurship. It's double-I-fire. I'm your

1:32

host, Paulapante, I trained in

1:34

economic reporting at Columbia, every

1:36

other episode, ish. I answer

1:38

questions from you, and I

1:40

do so with my buddy.

1:42

The former financial planner Joe Saul-Saulsihi.

1:44

What's up, Joe? Well, it's kind

1:47

of a sad day. In the

1:49

last week, Paula, the crater of

1:51

the throat lozenge died.

1:54

Oh. Yeah, there was no

1:56

coffin at his funeral, by

1:58

the way. Oh. Come on,

2:00

that deserves better than a want

2:02

want. In an effort to not

2:04

lose our audience, we're just going to

2:07

jump right into the first question.

2:09

Okay, fine. This one comes from

2:11

Kimmy. Hi, Paula. My name is Kimmy.

2:13

I'm a huge fan girl. Joe's fine, too.

2:16

My question is mostly about my

2:18

mom. We grew up dirt poor, but

2:20

she turned her life around and

2:22

now has about $1 million in

2:25

liquid assets safe for retirement. She

2:27

owns a home with about $300,000

2:29

with $40,000 left on the mortgage.

2:32

I recently did an analysis of

2:34

her spending using monarch and her

2:36

retirement benefits. If she started

2:39

drawing next year at age 62

2:41

between her pension, $29,000 a year,

2:43

and her Social Security benefit, $27,000

2:45

a year, at her current rate

2:47

of spending, she only needs to

2:49

pull a poultry $8,000 out of

2:51

her 403B every year. with a

2:54

little extra in the first three

2:56

years to cover health insurance before

2:58

Medicare kicks in. This obviously leaves

3:00

her with some R&D problems as

3:02

she ages and I'm planning to

3:04

do some rough conversions with her

3:07

before she reaches 73. Her assets

3:09

are currently invested, in my

3:11

opinion, in an overly conservative

3:13

way, given how little she needs to

3:15

rely on them. She currently has about

3:17

15% of her assets in high-yield savings,

3:19

50% in bonds, and 35% in

3:22

equities. I spend a little time

3:24

with a Monte Carlo simulator

3:26

and in every scenario it looks better

3:28

for her to move more or all

3:30

of her assets into equities. Is there

3:32

anything I'm missing as I push

3:34

her towards more risk? I'm looking

3:37

out of course for her comfortable

3:39

and secure retirement first and foremost.

3:41

I love my mom and she deserves

3:43

the absolute best in life, although she

3:45

insists on living simply. Secondarily, I'm looking

3:48

out for my own future since I

3:50

am 41 and have been severely disabled

3:52

and unable to work since I contracted

3:55

COVID two years ago. I live in

3:57

a very high cost of living area

3:59

and because I'm disabled all of

4:01

the third of a million dollars

4:03

I save from my own retirement

4:05

is currently accessible to me without

4:08

the 10% penalty. Nearly all of

4:10

my money is in equities and

4:12

I am okay with the roller

4:14

coaster. I currently draw disability benefits

4:16

of 2,000 a month and have

4:18

been spending down my savings at

4:20

a rate of 3,000 per month, which

4:22

will slow to a nominal amount if

4:24

and when I am approved for SSDI,

4:27

hopefully in two years. Thanks again for

4:29

all that you do. I'm looking forward

4:31

to your answer. Kimmy, thank you

4:33

so much for that question. First,

4:35

I love that you're calling with

4:37

a question about how to take

4:40

care of your mom. It shows

4:42

the enormous generosity of spirit and

4:44

care that you have for your family

4:46

and for her. I agree, her

4:48

asset allocation sounds too conservative. You

4:50

said she's 15% in high-yield savings,

4:52

50% in bonds, and 35% in

4:54

equities. Now, as I think... through

4:56

the framework of what she's going

4:58

to spend. I'm thinking in buckets.

5:01

So I'm thinking about the bucket

5:03

of money that she will rely

5:05

on in a two to three year

5:07

window, and then I'm thinking of

5:09

sort of a medium term bucket

5:11

and then a much longer term

5:13

bucket. The very long term bucket,

5:16

I agree, could go very

5:18

heavily into equities. Now, what

5:20

percentage precisely would be determined by

5:23

running the efficient frontier? running

5:25

some simulations around the efficient

5:27

frontier to take a look,

5:29

but when it comes to

5:31

withdrawal strategies, the primary thing

5:33

to guard against a sequence

5:35

of returns risk, and the

5:37

way that you guard against

5:39

that is not by being overly

5:41

conservative with the entire retirement

5:43

portfolio, but rather by

5:46

keeping that particular two

5:48

or three-year reserve invested

5:50

conservatively, and then outside

5:52

of that getting more aggressive

5:54

with the remainder of the

5:56

portfolio. Financial advisors refer to this

5:59

as a glide. which is just a

6:01

jargony technical way of saying you

6:03

decrease risk for the early years

6:05

of retirement and then you increase

6:07

risk again. Because after you get

6:09

out of those early years of

6:11

retirement, you've survived sequence of returns

6:13

risk. I 100% agree with you

6:16

and I think just the question

6:18

of are you overlooking anything. Her

6:20

instincts are right in terms of

6:22

what the best thing to do

6:24

is. But when I look at

6:26

Achilles heel on this plan, whenever

6:28

you are working with someone who

6:30

is older and who's been conservative

6:32

their entire life, I would assume

6:35

that this portfolio has always kind

6:37

of been this way, might not

6:39

be the truth, but that's my

6:41

assumption here, Paula. If that's the

6:43

case, and then you decide on

6:45

a glide path which is scientifically

6:47

more appropriate. you're still increasing state

6:49

or deviation. And so the thing

6:51

that I worry about then is

6:53

just mom's behavior, which means is

6:56

mom gonna all the sudden see

6:58

bumps in her portfolio that she

7:00

didn't see before and that's going

7:02

to give her some consternation because

7:04

it seems like Kimmy that you're

7:06

pretty savvy about this if you're

7:08

running Monte Carlo simulations on this.

7:10

So. If you can find what

7:12

the standard deviation would be on

7:14

this portfolio and then explain to

7:17

mom that, hey, you know what,

7:19

this could do 14% worse or

7:21

14% better, and that's a normal

7:23

day at the office for this

7:25

portfolio, just tell mom what the

7:27

volatility is going to be ahead

7:29

of time, that's the main thing

7:31

that I worry about. Joe, do

7:33

you agree with my instinct that

7:35

essentially I'm conceptualizing this retirement money

7:38

into three buckets? One being that

7:40

very... immediate term two to three

7:42

year beginning of retirement bucket yeah

7:44

and then a medium term bucket

7:46

and then a long term bucket

7:48

sure absolutely but most of that

7:50

long term bucket it appears if

7:52

mom's gonna be frugal her entire

7:54

life I think also So her

7:57

instinct, which she didn't say outright

7:59

100%, but a lot of this

8:01

is inheritance money. So for Kimmy,

8:03

we can really look at her

8:05

goals with this money as much

8:07

as mom's goals. And by the

8:09

way, this is where a lot

8:11

of people get this wrong. During

8:13

my career when I was a

8:15

financial planner, I had people call

8:18

me angry. They're like, this dumb

8:20

financial advisor has the money aggressive

8:22

and mom's 75 years old. Mom

8:24

has no business to 75 being

8:26

an aggressive investments. and they're like

8:28

we want you to take a

8:30

look so then I would go

8:32

take a look and I talk

8:34

to mom and guess what the

8:36

advisor was just a bad communicator

8:39

because what they were really doing

8:41

Paula was they were basing it

8:43

on when the money was going

8:45

to be spent mom wasn't going

8:47

to spend any of that money

8:49

so if mom's not going to

8:51

spend any of that money and

8:53

the beneficiary's not going to spend

8:55

it for 15 years that essentially

8:57

then is long-term money regardless of

9:00

what mom's age is because It's

9:02

not about the age, it's about

9:04

when the dollar is going to

9:06

be plucked. That's the big thing.

9:08

But yes, absolutely. The bucket approach

9:10

and keeping that first bucket just

9:12

in cash is also going to

9:14

help with mom's behavior. Just go

9:16

mom, you know what? This is

9:19

going to bounce around a little

9:21

more, but it comes out better

9:23

in this in terms of when

9:25

you're going to need that money

9:27

and with that short-term bucket, we've

9:29

got all this money in cash.

9:31

So when the market's bouncing around,

9:33

you, you don't have to worry

9:35

about it. example that you just

9:37

gave, the person who's 75, I

9:40

would argue that even if the

9:42

75-year-old is the person who plans

9:44

on spending that money during their

9:46

retirement, if you make the assumption

9:48

that that 75-year-old is going to

9:50

live to the age of 100,

9:52

which is not unrealistic these days,

9:54

well, they've got 25 years ahead

9:56

of them. That's a heck of

9:58

a long road. Yeah, good point.

10:01

longevity risk is a real thing

10:03

for the CFP community. Which I'm

10:05

sorry I still every time I

10:07

hear that all I can think

10:09

is financial planning is the The

10:11

only industry in which living a

10:13

long and healthy and happy life

10:15

is considered a risk. What a

10:17

great problem to have. I live

10:19

too long. My goal is to

10:22

live to a triple-digit age. But

10:24

in financial planning, that's referred to

10:26

as a risk, apparently. I don't

10:28

have an age goal, though, do

10:30

you? Assuming I'm healthy. Right? Assuming

10:32

that I can live independently, wake

10:34

up and put my pants on

10:36

every day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, assuming

10:38

I'm healthy, I would love to

10:40

live into the triple digits. Well,

10:43

I would too, but I don't

10:45

have, that's not like my goal.

10:47

It's much more, I want to

10:49

say holistic, but that's not like

10:51

my goal. It's much more, I

10:53

want to say holistic, but that's

10:55

not like my goal. It's much

10:57

more, I don't have a number.

10:59

That's a fun measure. I'm measuring

11:02

my fun. The fun of the

11:04

standard deviation on this fun meter.

11:06

The fun meter. Kimmy, I want

11:08

to address the portion of your

11:10

question where you ask about yourself

11:12

as well. You're 41 years old.

11:14

I'm so sorry to hear about

11:16

the long COVID and the disability

11:18

that has come out of that.

11:20

I have a good friend who

11:23

also is suffering from a multi-year

11:25

disability as a result of contracting

11:27

COVID. and it is, I know

11:29

from talking to her, a tremendously

11:31

difficult thing to deal with. So

11:33

I'm so sorry to hear that

11:35

you are facing that, and I

11:37

also applaud you for having saved

11:39

a third of a million dollars

11:41

so that you are rooted in

11:44

a position of strength, a position

11:46

of power that can help fuel

11:48

you through this current challenge. Absolutely.

11:50

So huge kudos to you huge

11:52

congratulations to you for building that

11:54

source of power for yourself There

11:56

are a couple of things about

11:58

the financial circumstance that you outlined

12:00

that I want to know. First,

12:02

you mentioned that you're running right

12:05

now a $3,000 monthly deficit between

12:07

your current cost of living and

12:09

the payments that you're receiving, and

12:11

you expect that this will continue

12:13

for another two years, at which

12:15

point you hope SSDI will kick

12:17

in. That means that over the

12:19

span of the next two years,

12:21

you would... end up spending 72,000

12:24

out of your savings. And it

12:26

sounds as though with third of

12:28

a million dollars, your savings are,

12:30

we'll say, ballpark somewhere in the

12:32

neighborhood of 330, 340, somewhere in

12:34

there. So to spend 72,000 out

12:36

of that is a significant chunk

12:38

in the context of my concern

12:40

that that money might not be

12:42

replenished. Where my mind is going

12:45

is going is going. What is

12:47

the bucket that you need that

12:49

can get you the portfolio that

12:51

you can rely on when you

12:53

are in your 60s, your 70s,

12:55

your 80s? Because right now, you're

12:57

41. You've got a lot of

12:59

compounding on your side. I want

13:01

to make sure as much money

13:03

as possible retains the opportunity to

13:06

compound. Yes, a lot of the

13:08

big wins that both she and

13:10

her mom have had, I think,

13:12

is because of frugality Paula. And

13:14

this is a place I think

13:16

where just a little more frugality

13:18

can go a long way in

13:20

securing a future, making sure that

13:22

everything's going to be great for

13:24

a long period of time. But

13:27

I don't know how much more

13:29

she can do. I mean, she

13:31

lives in a high cost of

13:33

living area. And total living expenses

13:35

of $5,000 a month in the

13:37

context of a high cost of

13:39

living city is... Is cut to

13:41

the bone. Yeah, that's already a

13:43

small pool of money to live

13:46

on. This is where a great

13:48

tracking tool, right? She said she

13:50

uses monarch phenomenal tracking tool. I

13:52

always advocate, as you know, Paula,

13:54

this weekly, just 20-minute meeting to

13:56

look at it, it sounds like.

13:58

she does that, just staying up

14:00

with a heartbeat using technology to

14:02

her advantage to continue to stay

14:04

up on the heartbeat of what

14:07

money's going out the door and

14:09

how quickly is going to work

14:11

in her favor. Right. What worries

14:13

me is what happens if SSDI

14:15

doesn't kick in in two years?

14:17

Which is, you look at the

14:19

way that program operates, it is

14:21

very, very difficult to get. It

14:23

can take even longer than that

14:25

for the most qualified people. Yeah.

14:28

That's my major concern. I don't

14:30

mind running a deficit. I understand

14:32

that oftentimes in a person's life,

14:34

they may have to run a

14:36

deficit. And speaking in broad generalities,

14:38

in a person's life, there will

14:40

be moments where they may have

14:42

to run a deficit, they may

14:44

have to tap into savings. And

14:46

I don't mind that in the

14:49

context of a lifespan in which

14:51

there's cyclicality. Sometimes there's a surplus,

14:53

sometimes there's a deficit, and... those

14:55

times of deficit are offset by

14:57

future surpluses. That's just the rhythm

14:59

of life. What concerns me is

15:01

running a deficit with a very

15:03

real possibility that there might not

15:05

be a future surplus to pay

15:07

that back. And I don't know

15:10

how to address that, because I

15:12

don't know how else she can

15:14

cut back, given that she's already

15:16

living on 60,000. in a high-cost

15:18

city. I think the most significant

15:20

financial move would be to go

15:22

someplace that has a lower cost

15:24

of living. But if she has

15:26

relationships with doctors in her current

15:29

city, if there's certain medical treatment

15:31

that she's getting in her current

15:33

city, then she might have a

15:35

very good reason for prioritizing living

15:37

in the place where she does.

15:39

Well, this is what's been on

15:41

my mind a lot lately because

15:43

we talk about geo arbitrage, and

15:45

I know it works for some...

15:47

people very well, Paula. But the

15:50

issue as I studied more and

15:52

more successful retic- planning in particular.

15:54

Moving to areas where you don't

15:56

know people, you don't have a

15:58

social network, that can decrease your

16:00

longevity. We talk about the fun

16:02

meter. Right. Men over 70 have

16:04

the highest rate of suicide of

16:06

any age group. I think part

16:08

of it has to do with

16:11

the way that we model these

16:13

behaviors. I deserve to move to

16:15

a different area where the weather

16:17

is nicer or suits me. but

16:19

we underplay the fact that we

16:21

don't know anybody in that spot.

16:23

We don't have any friends in

16:25

that spot. And I've actually seen

16:27

it as I, in my 50s,

16:29

I'm seeing friends approaching normal retirement

16:32

age and they are already making

16:34

some of these things that I

16:36

think are. kind of a mistake

16:38

for a lot of people, not

16:40

for everybody, but for a lot

16:42

of people. I have a friend

16:44

named Todd who spends lots of

16:46

time at this lake house that

16:48

they purchased that's a couple hours

16:51

away. I'm very lucky that I've

16:53

developed this great friends network. We

16:55

have game nights and we'll have

16:57

between nine and 15 people come

16:59

to game nights. As a guy

17:01

in my late 50s, I feel

17:03

very lucky to have this support

17:05

network. But we all, we never

17:07

see Todd anymore. We don't see

17:09

Todd and we forget to invite

17:12

Todd to stuff because of the

17:14

fact that we don't see Todd

17:16

anymore. And yet when you talk

17:18

to Todd, the reason he's got

17:20

this vacation house is because quote,

17:22

I deserve it and I worked

17:24

my whole life for it and

17:26

it's isolating and it's difficult when

17:28

you isolate like that for a

17:30

lot of people. So the flippant

17:33

answer is, well, gee arbitrage, but

17:35

to your point also. We don't

17:37

know what's going on, why she

17:39

lives in this spot. While I

17:41

like the idea of geo-arbitrage, I

17:43

also want to make sure that

17:45

you develop the support network wherever

17:47

you go. At least look into

17:49

it wherever you go before you

17:51

go. I agree. Staying in a

17:54

place where you have family, where

17:56

you have friends, and where you

17:58

have really good medical care. that's

18:00

the other element of it, is

18:02

sometimes there's just better medical care

18:05

in certain areas than there is

18:07

in others. And if there are

18:09

relationships that you've developed with particular

18:12

providers or any particular specialists, it's

18:14

worth staying in a place in

18:16

order to maintain those relationships. I

18:19

certainly know people who live in

18:21

the location that they live in

18:23

purely for the sake or largely

18:26

for the sake of continuing to

18:28

see the providers that they see.

18:30

Yeah. The value capture of location

18:33

is important. I think the reason

18:35

it's such a challenging question is

18:37

because, as we always say, the

18:40

key to financial planning is to

18:42

grow the gap between what you

18:44

earn and what you spend, and

18:47

there are only two ways to

18:49

grow that gap. You can earn

18:51

more or you can spend less.

18:54

And so when there are limitations

18:56

in both directions, that's where there's

18:58

a real challenge. It occurs. But

19:01

hopefully, Kimmy, during this, you've thought

19:03

of a few things. I know

19:05

that whenever I contemplate these, my

19:08

subconscious mind begins working and hopefully

19:10

there's a spark. Right. Kimmy, I

19:12

think if there's one thing I

19:15

would say, it's remember how young

19:17

you are. Forty-one is this interesting

19:19

age where you're old enough to

19:22

assume that you're old, but you're

19:24

too young to realize... how young

19:26

you are. 41 is really, really

19:29

flipping young. And I'd say that's

19:31

the biggest point that I want

19:34

to emphasize. There is far more

19:36

ahead of you than what's behind

19:38

you. But Kimmy, tell us how

19:41

that lands with you and please

19:43

call us back if you have

19:45

any follow-up questions, anything else. Because

19:48

we're rooting for you. We're in

19:50

your corner. We are big Kimmy

19:52

fans. Yes, we are. So thank

19:55

you for the question. So speaking

19:57

of return calls, our next caller

19:59

is a return call. This is

20:02

somebody who called us back in

20:04

2022. Wow. With a question about

20:06

whole life insurance. And she is

20:09

calling with an update and a

20:11

follow-up question. We're going to hear

20:13

from her next. I finally tried

20:16

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22:55

Hey Paul and Joe, I am a previous

22:57

caller. You guys gave me a really

22:59

beautiful name to memorialize a journalist and

23:02

I for the life of me can't

23:04

find what it was. I feel really

23:06

bad. It might have been nor? I

23:08

don't remember. I was the caller whose

23:10

parents took out a life insurance policy

23:12

for me on me when I was

23:14

like seven and paid the premiums on

23:16

it until I got my first big

23:18

girl job and then wrote it over

23:20

to me. I had called in asking

23:22

what in the world I should do

23:24

with the life insurance policy if I

23:26

don't have any dependents. And you guys

23:29

gave me the great advice to donate

23:31

it, which I didn't even know was

23:33

an option. So I ended up making

23:35

the beneficiary a organization that both

23:38

my parents and I really like

23:40

in support. because it's partially my money

23:42

and partially theirs that we need to fund it

23:44

so I wanted to honor them. But it came

23:46

up in conversation with a friend and her husband

23:49

who are going to have kids. I'm not. That

23:51

my parents had done this as like a savings

23:53

account essentially and they said oh that's a good

23:55

idea to do for your kids and I said

23:57

I actually don't know if it is a good

23:59

idea. So I guess that's my question

24:01

for you guys. I mean, for

24:04

me, that ship is sailed. He

24:06

bought that 20 years ago, I

24:08

don't know. And it is what

24:10

it is. But is that for

24:12

parents something to look into to

24:14

gift money to your children? I

24:17

guess maybe assume that educational expenses

24:19

are being saved for, that this

24:21

wouldn't necessarily be an inheritance. I

24:23

know that my parents, I think

24:25

it's called a 529 plan, the

24:27

one where you save for educational

24:30

expenses. I know that my college

24:32

is paid for. from saving it

24:34

at a 529 and I know

24:36

that I will receive an inheritance.

24:38

So this is all separate from

24:40

that. Is this a good way

24:43

to pass on money? I know

24:45

there's a lot of debate over

24:47

whether or not whole life insurance

24:49

can be used as an investment

24:51

vehicle and if yes, in what

24:53

circumstances that's reasonable. So I'm interested

24:56

to know y'all's opinion. If maybe

24:58

on the scale of different ways

25:00

to give money to one's children,

25:02

where does this fall? Thank you

25:04

guys for your great advice and

25:06

interested to hear your perspective. Daughter,

25:08

thank you for the question. First

25:11

of all, I was really curious

25:13

about what name we gave you,

25:15

so I looked it up and

25:17

please correct me if I'm wrong,

25:19

but I believe you were the

25:21

caller on episode 378, which aired

25:24

on May 5th, 2022, and if

25:26

that was you, then... Well, if

25:28

that was you, then the name

25:30

that we gave you was Daughter

25:32

of Generous Parents. When I real

25:34

listened to that question, so it's

25:37

episode 378, Airdate May 5th, 2022,

25:39

starting right around the 51-minute mark,

25:41

and I listened to the entire

25:43

question and answer. I assumed that

25:45

that was you. And I didn't

25:47

hear any mention of a journalist

25:50

there. And the name was Daughter

25:52

of Generous Parents. But I do

25:54

recall at some point. That fall

25:56

of 2022 and early 2023, that

25:58

was the time. which I was

26:00

giving a lot of people journalist-based

26:03

names. So did we say it

26:05

on a different episode? Or did

26:07

we answer two different life insurance

26:09

questions? So that's the part that

26:11

we've been trying to sleuth. We

26:13

actually spent a decent chunk of

26:15

the morning trying to figure it

26:18

out. Okay, if you were the

26:20

caller on episode 378, Ayrdate May

26:22

5th, 2022, then that means that

26:24

your premium was $47 a month.

26:26

and your parents bought that policy

26:29

for you and your two siblings.

26:31

And so you wanted to know

26:33

what to do with it given

26:35

that you weren't planning on having

26:37

any beneficiaries and sure enough we

26:39

told you name a charity as

26:41

the beneficiary because you've got you

26:44

know for the cost of less

26:46

than 50 bucks a month you

26:48

have a guaranteed payout to your

26:50

favorite charity of choice. This is

26:52

not something that most people think

26:54

about. So I was glad that

26:56

we were able to give her

26:59

that advice. I remember when I

27:01

first heard that a long time

27:03

ago, early in my financial planning

27:05

career, I saw an experienced advisor

27:07

recommend that with a client, they're

27:09

like, I really want to give

27:12

money to the local Humane Society,

27:14

but I don't know how to

27:16

do it. And it was a

27:18

single woman and the advisor said,

27:20

do you have a life insurance

27:22

policy through work? Yes. And does

27:24

anybody need your money? No. Well

27:27

then, why don't you name the

27:29

Humane Society and then when you

27:31

retire you can take over that

27:33

policy if you'd like, wow, I

27:35

can do that? Yeah, great. Beautiful.

27:37

So if you were the caller

27:39

in 378, then that was the

27:42

name that we gave you. To

27:44

answer the question that you asked,

27:46

no, a whole life insurance policy

27:48

is not a good savings vehicle.

27:50

for parents who want to pass

27:52

some savings down to their children.

27:54

There are much, much better ways

27:57

to do that. Now the exception

27:59

would be if you are so

28:01

incredibly high net worth that you

28:03

are worried about tax consequences because

28:05

the benefit that you as a

28:07

parent would give to your child

28:10

is going to have severe estate

28:12

tax ramifications and is far outside

28:14

of any type of gift tax,

28:16

I mean, if we're talking advanced

28:18

tax planning strategies, that would be

28:20

the exception. But for the average

28:22

parent who wants to give money

28:25

to the average child in any

28:27

either middle class or even upper

28:29

middle class home, no, it's not

28:31

a good method. Because a parent

28:33

could open an account, even a

28:35

taxable brokerage account, contribute money there

28:37

and let that money compound over

28:40

time and that will produce far

28:42

more than money that has been

28:44

subject to this drastic haircut that

28:46

insurance companies have taken. Yeah, most

28:48

of that haircut is just the

28:50

cost of the insurance which is

28:52

unnecessary. Right. If you believe, if

28:55

you're buying insurance to replace... assets

28:57

or replace income when somebody passes

28:59

away. How much money is your

29:01

three-year-old making? In 99.999% of cases,

29:03

they're not making any money. They're

29:05

not contributing at all to the

29:08

bottom line. And if they're not...

29:10

Freeloaders? I don't really lose her.

29:12

What do you do? Get out

29:14

there. Yes, parents across the world

29:16

now all of a sudden going,

29:18

wait a minute, my kid should

29:20

be making money at three? Yeah,

29:23

the Olson twins did. Your kid

29:25

can do it, come on. But

29:27

I see people do this all

29:29

the time and it's been very

29:31

popular for a long time. I

29:33

think because it's forced savings, but

29:35

if you're somebody that listens to

29:38

a show like this, you can

29:40

set up your own automatic savings

29:42

into either a 529 plan or

29:44

just a kid's brokerage account called

29:46

an utma or an ugma account

29:48

depending on the state that you

29:50

live in. You can set up

29:53

those just as easy as you

29:55

kind of life insurance policy and

29:57

you'll avoid all of this a

29:59

unnecessary insurance insurance insurance you don't.

30:01

need, which then means B, all

30:03

the fees that are associated with

30:06

that life insurance. that you also

30:08

don't need. Yeah. Daughter, to explain

30:10

why we told you to preserve

30:12

the policy that you have, even

30:14

though we're also saying that this

30:16

is not a good new thing

30:18

to get into, is that is

30:21

the distinction between a policy that

30:23

already exists and has existed for

30:25

20 plus years versus a brand

30:27

new policy. In your case... Your

30:29

parents bought a policy on you

30:31

20 plus years ago, right? So

30:33

they've already been paying into that

30:36

for decades, literally decades, which means

30:38

that the haircut, the fees, the

30:40

expense, the payment for that insurance,

30:42

they've already paid it. So now,

30:44

20 something odd years later, now...

30:46

You're in the golden phase. They've

30:48

already paid that upfront fee. They've

30:51

already gone through the mess of

30:53

it. So now you get to

30:55

have this guaranteed payout that's going

30:57

to go to your favorite charity.

30:59

And so why would you throw

31:01

that away once you've already gone

31:04

through those two decades of paying

31:06

the fees, right? That's the distinction.

31:08

You wouldn't want to sign up

31:10

for those fees as a brand

31:12

new thing. There are better ways

31:14

to do it. But if you've

31:16

already paid them, then why would

31:19

you throw that away? So that's

31:21

why for you who already has

31:23

a 20 plus year old whole

31:25

life policy, it makes sense to

31:27

keep it, whereas for somebody else,

31:29

who doesn't have a whole life

31:31

policy, it doesn't make sense to

31:34

sign up for one. Keep the

31:36

existing policy, the old existing policy,

31:38

but don't get a new one.

31:40

At this point, it's best use

31:42

of the money at this moment,

31:44

right? Right. If you've charitable intentions,

31:46

then certainly using the cash value

31:49

that's already here inside of this

31:51

policy to be able to maybe

31:53

even at some point stop putting

31:55

money into the policy and it's

31:57

guaranteed to last your whole life,

31:59

it's a great way to lock

32:02

down this charity. matter at what

32:04

point you pass away, luck down

32:06

this gift. The problem the advisor

32:08

had in the earlier story when

32:10

they were using a term policy,

32:12

Paula, is that there is a

32:14

chance that the person will live

32:17

so long that term policy ends

32:19

up becoming really, really, really expensive.

32:21

And you can't afford it anymore.

32:23

And so if you die after.

32:25

ex-age when you can't afford the

32:27

policy anymore, well then there's no

32:29

charitable gift anymore to the place.

32:32

With the whole life policy though,

32:34

that's not going to be the

32:36

case. As long as either continue

32:38

to make contributions or make contributions

32:40

into the point that it's quote

32:42

paid up, meaning you've prepaid enough

32:44

money at a young age, that

32:47

it pays the cost of insurance

32:49

during those older years. which is

32:51

the main reason why cash value

32:53

actually exists in a whole life

32:55

policy, then it's locked down. So

32:57

I really like a whole life

33:00

policy in this case for a

33:02

charitable intention that you want to

33:04

lock down. Yeah. But the other

33:06

thing about a whole life policy,

33:08

you can buy these policies that

33:10

have what look like mutual funds

33:12

inside them, technically they're not mutual

33:15

funds, it's called a separate account,

33:17

but you can buy a variable

33:19

policy like a variable universal life

33:21

policy. Again, I don't like mixing

33:23

my food groups to touch a

33:25

lot of my risk management stuff

33:27

in one corner and I want

33:30

my assets in another corner. To

33:32

your point, unless I'm Uber wealthy,

33:34

once I get there, then there

33:36

are some wonderful tax strategies that

33:38

take forever to explain where life

33:40

insurance can be your best friend,

33:42

stock of money away. But to

33:45

a young new parent who's a

33:47

friend of yours, it's not the

33:49

type of advice I would give

33:51

them. However. If you say to

33:53

your friend, I don't recommend it

33:55

and they say, well, I'll talk

33:58

to my private banker about that,

34:00

then you can put the permanent

34:02

insurance back on the table. Because

34:04

if they're going to talk to

34:06

their private banker about it, well

34:08

then, maybe. Meaning, the implication being

34:10

their ultra-high network. Yes, I'm going

34:13

to talk to my family wealth

34:15

management officer about that. Yeah, then

34:17

you're super high net worth and

34:19

then it might work out great.

34:21

Great question though with Paula because

34:23

we see people make mistakes with

34:25

this all the time. There's tons

34:28

of people buying these life insurance

34:30

policies today. There are far far

34:32

far better ways to grow your

34:34

child's net worth. Yeah, exactly. So

34:36

whole life insurance is not a

34:38

good savings vehicle for a child.

34:40

a new account to sign up

34:43

for. But if you have an

34:45

existing account. You want to do

34:47

something fun though? Yeah, go ahead.

34:49

Let's do something fun. How do

34:51

we want to make the kid?

34:53

Three? Sure. Three years old. Let's

34:56

say that we use VTA or

34:58

VTSA, right? We just use the

35:00

total stock market index and we

35:02

open up an account in the

35:04

child's name. And they're not going

35:06

to touch it until they're 65.

35:08

So we can use this rule

35:11

called the rule called the rule

35:13

72. People that don't know what

35:15

the rule of 72 is. It's

35:17

if you take the interest rate,

35:19

you think you're going to get

35:21

divided into 72 that tells you

35:23

how many years it takes your

35:26

money to double. So, Paula, let's

35:28

say long period of time like

35:30

that, we can use 8% don't

35:32

you think? Yeah, absolutely. Eight into

35:34

72 every nine years. That means

35:36

if you put $2,000 into an

35:38

account for your three-year-old right now,

35:41

this is going to be awesome.

35:43

every nine years. So it's going

35:45

to double when they're 12, double

35:47

when they're 21, double when they're

35:49

30, double when they're 39, double

35:51

when they're 48, double when they're

35:54

57, and let's go ahead and

35:56

say 66, right? Social Security full

35:58

benefit at 67, currently, those rules

36:00

will change by them, but going

36:02

to double seven times by 66.

36:04

So you're not putting away 2,

36:06

2,000 bucks, that first double, so

36:09

seven doubles, which means it's going

36:11

to be 4, the first 1,

36:13

16,000, 32,000, 64,000, 128,000, 2. $256,000

36:15

of retirement money at 66 years

36:17

old, if you put $2,000 into

36:19

an account for a three-year-old. It's

36:21

so awesome. It's so incredible. Wow.

36:24

This is a concept that I

36:26

was talking to Scott Yamamura about

36:28

on a recent episode. It was

36:30

an episode we aimed at beginners,

36:32

and it was the multiplicative power

36:34

that's associated with. the time at

36:36

which you invest. So depending on

36:39

your timeline, every dollar that you

36:41

put in could have a multiplicative

36:43

power of two, four, eight, 16,

36:45

it could have these incredible multiplicative

36:47

powers based on exactly what you

36:49

were talking about, Joe, based on

36:52

the number of times it doubles.

36:54

$8,000 at age three then is

36:56

over a million dollars at a

36:58

fairly conservative interest rate for that.

37:00

amount of money. I mean, don't

37:02

get me wrong, everybody doesn't have

37:04

$8,000 to put in their three-year-old's

37:07

account, but if you think about,

37:09

$8,000 is a million equals a

37:11

million. There's a guy, Bill Ackman,

37:13

who is a big hedge fund

37:15

manager. Bill Ackman has publicly said,

37:17

what would solve Social Security's problem,

37:19

Paula, is if we gave everybody

37:22

when they're born just a few

37:24

thousand dollars. and put it in

37:26

this account that becomes your social

37:28

security account, so to speak. And

37:30

it would make the cost of

37:32

social security so much less. He's

37:34

already done the math. I haven't

37:37

done the math. I just, this

37:39

guy has done so much work

37:41

in this area that I just

37:43

find it fascinating and believable that

37:45

we could solve the issue if

37:47

when you're born in the US,

37:50

you're given X amount of money.

37:52

Maybe doesn't solve all our problems,

37:54

but how cool would that be?

37:56

So daughter for your friends who

37:58

are having a new baby, talk

38:00

to them about this. About... simply

38:02

opening up a taxable brokerage account

38:05

for that child, or an ugma,

38:07

or an upmar, or any other

38:09

type of account, but talk to

38:11

them about opening up an account

38:13

for that child rather than purchasing

38:15

an insurance product. That'd be so

38:17

happy they did. Yeah. Well, thank

38:20

you for calling in with that

38:22

update. And if you figure out

38:24

what journalists you are referencing, please

38:26

call back and let us know,

38:28

because I would love to know

38:30

as well. Nor sounds like a

38:32

beautiful name. All right. Up next,

38:35

we're going to dive into a

38:37

question for the money nerds out

38:39

there. Jeff lays out all of

38:41

his finances total disclosure in order

38:43

to figure out what his next

38:45

step should be given that by

38:48

the time this episode airs, his

38:50

wife most likely will have quit

38:52

her job. We'll hear from him

38:54

next. When

38:57

you think about businesses that grow

38:59

their sales beyond forecasts like feastables

39:01

by Mr. Beast or even a

39:03

legacy business like Mattel, I mean,

39:05

you've got a lot of things

39:07

that are going right, you've got

39:09

a product with demand, you've got

39:11

a focused brand, but there's also

39:13

the business behind the business that

39:15

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40:03

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40:05

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40:07

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40:09

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40:11

be protected? Life insurance is a

40:13

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40:15

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40:21

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42:06

Our final question today comes from

42:08

Jeff. We're a family of five

42:10

living in Colorado with children ages

42:12

three to ten. I'm 46, my

42:14

wife is 39. Our family spends

42:16

about 12K a month. I make

42:18

just over 200, and my wife

42:20

makes around 90K. In 2023, our

42:22

taxable income was 218K. I have

42:24

2.3 million in my 403B 401A

42:26

retirement account, which is all pre-tax.

42:28

Another 66K in the Roth IRA,

42:30

I get a 10% match on

42:32

my employee's sponsored retirement plan. Also

42:34

because they don't have a traditional

42:36

IRA, I'm able to do a

42:38

backdoor Roth conversion each year. My

42:40

wife's company automatically contributes 12% of

42:42

her income to retirement and she's

42:44

been maxing out the rest also

42:46

in the pre-tax for a 3B.

42:48

She currently has 60K in her

42:50

Roth. 78K in a traditional IRA

42:53

that was recently converting from a

42:55

SEP when we moved to all

42:57

of our funds into fidelity. We

42:59

wanted to do a backdoor conversion

43:01

with some of her IRA money,

43:03

but got confused by both the

43:05

pro rata rule and whether we

43:07

take a huge tax hit or

43:09

even run into knit if we

43:11

converted it all. We recently moved

43:13

our money to Fidelity out of

43:15

a traditional brokerage account and we've

43:17

been working to shed some of

43:19

our legacy individual stock investments. Last

43:21

year I was able to pull

43:23

out about 75K with a small

43:25

capital gains hit due to capital

43:27

losses, but now we've got 380K

43:29

with 270K of capital gains in

43:31

traditional stocks. Including the money we

43:33

pulled from the brokerage account, we

43:35

now have about 100. 15 ish

43:37

in cash that's in Fidelity cash

43:39

management sitting in spacks other items

43:41

of note we have 300 k

43:44

in 529s for our children about

43:46

50 k in crypto and almost

43:48

80 in an HSA last year

43:50

we decided to stop contributing to

43:52

529s and and switch to just

43:54

putting about 350 a week into

43:56

a Boglehead style taxable investment account

43:58

with the mix of VTA, VXUS,

44:00

and bond. I've got a 10-year

44:02

mortgage of about $2,500 a month.

44:04

It'll be paid off in October

44:06

2030, and the house is worth

44:08

about $7.15. Obviously, we're in really

44:10

good shape for our long term,

44:12

but we are concerned that too

44:14

much of our money is invested

44:16

into pre-tax accounts. We might get

44:18

hit pretty hard with taxes come

44:20

retirement. Our long-term goals would be

44:22

to cover undergrad at a state

44:24

school for all three kids. My

44:26

wife doesn't like her job. She's

44:28

planning to quit. We believe we

44:30

can afford that, but we're looking

44:32

for advice. What should we do

44:35

to optimize before she quits? What

44:37

do we do to optimize after?

44:39

I know I can put a

44:41

portion or maybe all after secure

44:43

2.0 into a raw first traditional

44:45

for my work account for my

44:47

work account. Just looking for some

44:49

hope. And there's a good chance

44:51

by the time this airs that

44:53

she will have already quit. And

44:55

lastly is real estate the answer.

44:57

Jeff, thank you for the detailed

44:59

list of assets and for the

45:01

question. I gotta say, Paula, he's

45:03

spot on. He knows that things

45:05

are gonna go pretty well. Jeff,

45:07

you already know this is a

45:09

great problem to have because it's

45:11

a question of are you gonna

45:13

be okay or are you gonna

45:15

be really... really, really okay. And

45:17

that's a nice spot to be.

45:19

So congratulations on a nice job

45:21

of planning, minimizing your debt. And

45:23

I don't know, Paula, part of

45:26

me thinks there was a smile

45:28

there when he said is real

45:30

estate the answer. I think real

45:32

estate can solve a lot of

45:34

your problems. Jeff, just take everything,

45:36

put it in real estate and

45:38

you're done. Is that where we

45:40

go? being in a pretext position

45:42

can be problematic and means that

45:44

you will pay higher income taxes

45:46

throughout your retirement. So. I like

45:48

your feeling about lowering that. My

45:50

feeling initially was, based on your

45:52

two income household, that your tax

45:54

situation was such that I was

45:56

going to wait for an opportunity.

45:58

Well, guess what? Your wife deciding

46:00

to quit her job gives you

46:02

this opportunity possibly this year. So

46:04

using whatever tax software you use

46:06

and figuring out doing some tax

46:08

projections of what tax bracket you're

46:10

going to be in. assuming that

46:12

you're not along a line this

46:14

year where it makes sense to

46:17

wait until next year when you

46:19

be at a lower bracket, I

46:21

would fill up as much of

46:23

the next bracket as or the

46:25

bracket that you're in as possible

46:27

that you feel comfortable with turning

46:29

over some of that pretext money

46:31

into Roth money by doing these

46:33

mega vector Roth conversions. The math

46:35

always begins with, and I think

46:37

you know the math, so I'll

46:39

tell everyone else here in our

46:41

community about the math. So the

46:43

way that the math works is

46:45

that you're going to pay tax

46:47

today on every dollar that you

46:49

convert from pre-tax, which has never

46:51

been taxed before, into a Roth.

46:53

The rule is there's not going

46:55

to be a penalty, but you

46:57

are going to pay a one-time

46:59

tax. So it's going to be

47:01

taxed today, and then it... becomes

47:03

Roth inside of your tax shelter.

47:05

That's why we begin with the

47:08

tax bracket that you're in, because

47:10

let's say, Paula, that he's got

47:12

$30,000 until he hits the next

47:14

bracket line. He can then remove

47:16

$30,000 worth and flip that money

47:18

over to a Roth. And when

47:20

he does that, he's going to

47:22

pay an additional tax on the

47:24

30,000 bucks. The cool thing is,

47:26

he's got this really nice cash

47:28

reserve sitting there. That's the way

47:30

I look at this $100,000 plus

47:32

dollar sitting in cash right now.

47:34

Is this is money? Unless you've

47:36

got an earmark for something else,

47:38

this is a decent chunk of

47:40

this money, maybe $40,000, $50,000, is

47:42

to help you pay the tax

47:44

as you lower the amount of

47:46

money that's in your pretext position.

47:48

Now that said, I see people

47:50

that try to get it all

47:52

into Iraq, A, you're never gonna

47:54

get there, right? But number two

47:56

is, don't think there's really any

47:59

reason to do that. I mean,

48:01

the lowest tax bracket, you will

48:03

always be able to fill that

48:05

up with your pre-tax money. So

48:07

it's going to be okay to

48:09

leave some money in a pre-tax

48:11

position. But to the amount that

48:13

you can endure the tax pain

48:15

and you have enough money in

48:17

cash to be able to move

48:19

the money over to the Roth

48:21

position, which it looks like you

48:23

have several years worth of. conversions

48:25

that you can do based on

48:27

the amount of cash you have.

48:29

Assuming that this is just emergency

48:31

fund money and it's not allocated

48:33

for some other goal, that's the

48:35

strategy that I would take. But

48:37

I would only say take it

48:39

now because your wife has quit

48:41

her job. If she hasn't quit

48:43

her job, then I may wait

48:45

till next year. If she quits

48:47

her job next year, then I

48:50

begin doing it next year. Yeah,

48:52

exactly. Now as to the question,

48:54

is real estate the answer. My

48:56

question back to you would be,

48:58

why would be, why would be,

49:00

why would be, why would be,

49:02

why would be, why would it,

49:04

why would it, why would it,

49:06

why would it, why would it,

49:08

why would it, why would it,

49:10

why would it, why would it,

49:12

why would it, why would it,

49:14

why would it, why would it,

49:16

why, why would it, why, why

49:18

would it, why, why would it,

49:20

why, why would it, why would

49:22

it, why, why, why, why would

49:24

it, Real estate is a great

49:26

opportunity for people who want to

49:28

invest in real estate, but the

49:30

number one qualifying criterion is that

49:32

you must want it. And there

49:34

wasn't anything within your question that

49:36

indicated a curiosity, a desire, and

49:38

I understand there are limits to

49:41

what you can leave in a

49:43

three-minute voicemail. So maybe it is

49:45

the case that that's always sort

49:47

of been a lingering curiosity. Maybe

49:49

it does peak your interest or

49:51

it peaks your wife's interest and

49:53

there just wasn't enough. time in

49:55

the voicemail to say it. If

49:57

that's the case, then follow your

49:59

curiosity. Absolutely. But remember that real

50:01

estate is a hybrid between owning

50:03

an investment and running a business.

50:05

It's actually in the fire acronym.

50:07

It's perfect that the letter R

50:09

falls in between the I for

50:11

investing and the E for entrepreneurship

50:13

because that letter R for real

50:15

estate really is in directly in

50:17

between the eye of investing in

50:19

the E of entrepreneurship. It borrows

50:21

from both. And that's precisely why

50:23

it's only an answer for people

50:25

who are interested in it. You

50:27

have to be interested in running

50:29

a small business in order to

50:32

have any possibility of doing it

50:34

well. If that minimum viable interest?

50:36

That minimum viable curiosity isn't there?

50:38

Then don't do it just because

50:40

everybody else is. Don't foam away

50:42

into it. Yeah, leading with the

50:44

investment versus leading with the process

50:46

of how you got to that

50:48

investment is always a mistake. Going,

50:50

oh, is the answer real estate?

50:52

Like if I'm solving for crypto,

50:54

surprise, I'm going to end up

50:56

at crypto. But I think a

50:58

much better way of getting... there

51:00

is what is the perfect investment

51:02

for my time frame and my

51:04

overarching goal. Right. This is going

51:06

to help propel me there the

51:08

best. And there is no such

51:10

thing as the best, but there

51:12

certainly is going to be a

51:14

smaller field. If I need something

51:16

that's four years, if I need

51:18

money four years from now, certainly

51:20

the cost to buy a piece

51:22

of property and then sell a

51:25

piece of property is ridiculous. So

51:27

it's not going to be a

51:29

great investment. Unless you're flipping. Well,

51:31

sure. Yeah, by the way, and

51:33

if it's your first time by

51:35

real estate I wouldn't do a

51:37

flip because I think a flip

51:39

is much better if you've got

51:41

a team that is reliable that

51:43

you've worked with for a while

51:45

and you can those numbers are

51:47

like clockwork now because I know

51:49

that so and so is going

51:51

to do the job for X

51:53

price I know all of the

51:55

steps yeah I think flipping's fantastic

51:57

for somebody that's a seasoned pro

51:59

in that area right with flipping

52:01

holding costs often end up being

52:03

a significant portion of your outlay

52:05

And if you are not well

52:07

versed in how to estimate holding

52:09

costs, then you can quickly lose

52:11

all of your profits to delays.

52:13

And so that's something that once

52:16

you have a few deals under

52:18

your belt, you have a much

52:20

better fluency with that time frame.

52:22

Sure. I would think between that

52:24

and having a team you can

52:26

rely on, who there, you know

52:28

how they estimate the project and

52:30

what to build in. I mean,

52:32

there's so much more confidence. Yeah.

52:34

But anyway, if you begin with

52:36

the end in mind, you're going

52:38

to do much better than beginning

52:40

with the investment mind. Right, exactly.

52:42

Yeah, it's always worrisome when someone

52:44

presupposes the answer within the question.

52:46

But Jeff, I'm very excited for

52:48

what's ahead. And please tell your

52:50

wife, I said, congratulations on leaving

52:52

her job. It's a great moment.

52:54

Yeah. Now gets to explore what's

52:56

next. Exactly. Well, Joe, we've done

52:58

it again. Thank you for spending

53:00

this time with us. No, thank

53:02

you, Paula. Ah, Joe, where can

53:04

people find you if they'd like

53:07

to hear more of you? You

53:09

could find me at the Stackey

53:11

Bedgman's podcast, which is every Monday,

53:13

Wednesday, Friday. Monday, we have Monday

53:15

mentors. We have very smart people.

53:17

We talked recently about budgeting. We

53:19

got a little technical. and talked

53:21

about budgets that work, budgets that

53:23

don't work, and why so many

53:25

people seem to be allergic to

53:27

it, and why how we can

53:29

get a little better at it.

53:31

So I had a couple great

53:33

mentors talking to us about that.

53:35

Wednesday is always a poporee that

53:37

includes our TikTok Minute. which is

53:39

where we look at some of

53:41

the ridiculousness that is out in

53:43

Tiktak world. Speaking of, Paula, what

53:45

of my Tiktak minutes I just

53:47

shared when I spoke at UC

53:49

Santa Barbara, because I take these

53:51

Tiktak minutes on the road, these

53:53

real estate people on Tiktak telling

53:55

you to rip money out of

53:58

your 401k because, quote, 401ks are

54:00

a scam, and invest it in

54:02

flipping houses. Your first time, and

54:04

the guy goes, well, let's say

54:06

I've only got like $40,000 in

54:08

my 401k, you think I should

54:10

do it? Yes, absolutely rip it

54:12

all out and use it to

54:14

flip a house. That is tragically

54:16

bad advice. You know what I

54:18

know, it's even worse? That's horrible

54:20

advice, yeah. 750,000 people. We've watched

54:22

that video, just so painful. So

54:24

anyway, we point out stuff like

54:26

that on Wednesday, we dive into

54:28

topics with just our team, Oji

54:30

and I. And then on Friday,

54:32

we have people like the brilliant

54:34

Paula Pant, our friend Jesse Kramer,

54:36

and Oji, talk about a topic

54:38

like recently, we talked about your

54:40

financial go bag. You look at

54:42

people with the fires recently having

54:44

to flee their house. What's in

54:46

your financial go bag? Amazing. Well,

54:49

all of that is on the

54:51

Stacking Benjamin's podcast, which you can

54:53

find. Everywhere where you like to

54:55

listen to podcasts. Fine or podcast?

54:57

The finest. Before we wrap today,

54:59

I want to share something I'm

55:01

really excited about. Remember that salary

55:03

negotiation course I've mentioned? Well, the

55:05

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55:07

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55:09

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55:13

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55:15

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55:17

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55:19

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55:35

if you've if you've

55:37

been thinking about

55:40

how to approach

55:42

your next salary

55:44

conversation with confidence,

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like if you've

55:48

been thinking, Hey,

55:50

I don't make

55:52

enough. I'd like

55:54

to make more.

55:56

How do I

55:58

ask my boss? I

56:00

Well, this is

56:02

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56:04

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56:06

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enjoying a deep,

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at this price this

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price Mark your

56:18

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56:20

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56:22

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56:24

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56:26

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56:28

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56:31

enrollment for the

56:33

second beta round. As

56:35

a we are keeping the up, we small. the

56:37

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56:39

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56:41

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56:44

want to act quickly. To next raise.

56:46

That's afford go to afford your

56:48

next your next raise. you so

56:50

much for tuning in.

56:52

I'm in. I'm Paula Pan.