0:03

This podcast is presented by

0:05

State Farm, a proud supporter of women's

0:07

soccer and all women's sports.

0:09

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

0:14

I don't know if you were

0:16

able to see this on the telly,

0:19

after I think the first half of full

0:21

time, there was a flock

0:23

of seagulls flying overhead,

0:26

spinning with great ferocity and

0:29

circumference and

0:32

shitting everywhere. Nice. Just shitting all

0:34

over the entire pitch.

0:35

I mean, there's a metaphor in there somewhere. And that's

0:37

when I started to think this might not

0:39

go our way.

0:44

From Apple News, I'm Rebecca Lowe. And

0:47

I'm Brendan Hunt. But really, what is identity?

0:49

What is meaning? What is this life? And

0:52

what is after the whistle?

0:55

We are in fact, minutes

0:57

after the final whistle of USA Sweden. Brendan

1:00

was there. He is just beginning

1:02

to process. US soccer ledge,

1:04

Michelle Akers joins us to work through it,

1:07

Irish wig style, and to possibly settle

1:09

the nickname debate once and for all. And

1:11

reminder, there's going to be plenty of adult

1:13

language today from everyone

1:15

except me. Oh, fuck off.

1:30

Oh, my friend, we are

1:32

literally jumping on. You've just got back

1:34

to the hotel from the ground, having

1:37

watched the United States go out.

1:40

Their earliest exit ever in the Women's

1:42

World Cup.

1:43

Talk us through your emotions right

1:45

now, actually, if you can. I

1:50

mean, I'm definitely standing in

1:52

a emotional crater

1:55

of infinite breadth. But like,

1:58

you know, I've had my teams have heartbreaking...

1:59

losses before, but this

2:02

one feels different.

2:03

Why? Usually,

2:06

like, when I have this degree

2:08

of sadness, it's like

2:09

entirely my own. I'm not worried about anyone

2:12

else. This is me and my sadness,

2:14

usually coupled with rage. But now, I

2:17

feel greater sadness for many others

2:20

in this instance. I feel sad

2:22

for the team. I feel sad for everyone who missed

2:24

a penalty, which is, of course, a pretty

2:27

long list, but we'll get to that. I oddly

2:29

feel sad for Fox Sports.

2:33

Okay, yeah, yeah. They're about to hit

2:35

a ratings iceberg, but between the US being

2:37

out and Time Zone's being what they are, that's going to not

2:39

be quite the advertisement for the sport that

2:42

we hoped. I feel sad

2:44

for every fan who made

2:46

the effort to come out here, and there's

2:49

the whole end of an era aspect to

2:51

it as well, which maybe

2:53

is married to some of that too. Let's

2:57

talk about it.

2:57

Where do you want to start? I mean, there's a lot to

3:00

get through, my friend. I want to start with a

3:02

question for you, actually, because I've had this question

3:04

all night, and I meant to text you earlier,

3:06

but there was so much going on. How did it look

3:09

on the telly? And maybe,

3:11

you know, up to

3:12

the penalties, but because in

3:14

the stadium, especially in the first half,

3:17

it felt like this was the prince

3:19

that was promised, you know, the team that we've been

3:21

waiting for. Oh, without a doubt. It was the

3:24

best performance from the USA by

3:26

a country. I mean, it's not very difficult with this World Cup

3:28

because the first three were so average, but

3:30

absolutely shots on goal, shots on target

3:33

were ridiculous in the United States favor, but it wasn't

3:35

just that was it, Brendan. They just looked cohesive

3:38

on the telly that they hadn't looked like

3:41

all World Cup. They looked like a team

3:43

at last. And we have to say, Andanowski,

3:46

I've got a few questions, but at least

3:48

he changed it. Emily Sonnet, I'd

3:50

like to write her a sonnet.

3:52

She was excellent. Well

3:54

done. Thank you. And

3:57

there were a lot of really good things about.

3:59

USA, it's just too late. I mean,

4:02

of course, the glaring,

4:03

glaring, glaring, glaring situation is you

4:05

can't score goals. And you see

4:07

how quickly I've gone from Wii to you, you can't

4:09

score goals. And literally it's taken me about

4:12

three minutes at this point to go from Wii to you. But

4:14

that is a major problemo. And

4:16

it was coming into the tournament. It was

4:18

for the first three games. Everything else was better

4:20

today, except for that. Still just so blunt

4:23

in front of goal. But you know, my friend, I am

4:25

picking out the silver lining immediately. And

4:27

I think we'll get to this with Michelle Akers, who's

4:29

going to be our guest later

4:31

in a roundabout messed up

4:33

way. This will be a good thing

4:36

for the US women's national team program. It will,

4:38

it has to be, you have to be chased

4:40

to get better. You know, Manchester city

4:43

only get excellent and more excellent

4:45

every season because your lot, Arsenal, Liverpool

4:48

chase them. They wouldn't do it by themselves. And the USA

4:50

have been so good for so long. They're now being

4:52

chased. So it's going to be a good thing for the women's

4:54

program. It's just going to be, I think, a

4:56

bit more pain to get through until

4:59

it becomes visibly a better thing.

5:01

Yeah. I mean, to that end, that's,

5:03

there's something kind of interesting

5:07

about the fact that, you know, so it expands to a 32 team

5:09

tournament for the first time. And the thought is like, well, that's,

5:11

that's a disaster. You know, when the syllable isn't ready,

5:14

it'll be, you know, a bunch of 10, nothing drubbing

5:16

until we get into the nitty gritty. And

5:19

we haven't even yet completed the round of 16

5:21

and

5:22

every champion bar one is gone.

5:24

Yeah. It's very interesting

5:26

moment about the, you

5:28

know, the town that is rising around the world, but for

5:31

the US specifically, yes, I totally agree. You got to

5:33

clear the decks.

5:34

You got to clear the decks. Dominance doesn't go forever.

5:36

And sometimes it's better to be drubbed

5:39

because that forces a longer

5:42

look in the mirror than a close call of might. And

5:44

by drubbed, I mean the earlier exit than a, than a, like

5:47

a final exit.

5:47

Yeah. So the game,

5:49

what do you want to pick out first? Uh,

5:54

gosh. Um, yeah.

5:56

So just generally first half felt, felt

5:58

dominant.

5:59

The chances gone wanting. But you're

6:02

right. Like they certainly in the stadium, they also

6:04

looked cohesive. They looked loose.

6:07

They looked

6:08

very... This is the word

6:10

that comes to mind and it is the correct word, no matter how incorrect

6:13

it sounds. Cocksure. You know,

6:15

like the fucking... The ball

6:17

went into space and there was always someone there and

6:20

Sweden was on their back heels for

6:22

all of it. But, you know, even

6:24

a half time, it's just very, very precarious.

6:26

It's the awareness of you cannot

6:28

dominate,

6:30

but not take advantage. You cannot leave

6:32

the door open. You will be punished.

6:34

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, or actually

6:36

today.

6:37

Today. I

6:39

mean, Sweden's first shot on goal, their first

6:41

shot on target wasn't until the 85th minute, Brendan. And

6:44

I can tell you those stats, 11

6:47

shots on target for the United States

6:49

to one over the course of the game.

6:51

But that's football, isn't it? That is the you know

6:54

what that is football. So

6:56

I'm just going to do the math here. A listener did not

6:58

make a save until the 356th minute of the tournament.

7:03

Oh brother. Alright,

7:05

so you know, because I'm in the stadium, I'm

7:07

not

7:07

watching the game on TV with my notebook handy. So

7:10

I have less particular notes.

7:12

So Lynn Williams comes

7:14

on. Yeah, 65th minute. She's

7:16

fantastic. She was. You know, she's only had

7:18

the two games, but her best game, like, she

7:20

looked like a wide player,

7:22

loved the rolled up sleeve.

7:23

And it kind of exposed

7:25

Alex Morgan for me. The

7:28

way she was so, you know, immediately dominant. Like,

7:30

I don't know what was the missing piece for Alex Morgan

7:32

this tournament. And she certainly had good moments.

7:35

It's not just about, you know, the lack of end

7:37

product, but in the end, if you're the star striker

7:40

for two time champion, you've got to have some results

7:42

and cement product. And it was not there.

7:45

Remember when she missed the penalty and we said after that first

7:47

game, we said, we just hope this isn't a

7:49

kind of this

7:51

isn't going to be an effect on her. Because missing a penalty, despite

7:53

all of her experience in that opening game,

7:56

I don't know her body language.

7:59

It didn't look good. We said it at the time, Brendan.

8:02

And unfortunately we were right. She just never

8:04

got going. And I think obviously that will be it

8:06

for her for the US women's national team. And it's a cruddy

8:09

way to go out. Her legacy

8:11

remains intact. But I wonder if you'd

8:13

got through, I don't think she'd have started the next game. Do

8:15

you? I just feel, I mean, they took her off. What was

8:17

it in the 98th minute for Rapinoe? Who by

8:20

the way, I didn't think did anything when she came on either. But

8:22

that's another story. I just thought that was the

8:24

end of Morgan in terms of a starter in this tournament.

8:26

She just didn't offer enough.

8:27

Yeah. And it's easy to Monday

8:29

morning quarterback this because start of the

8:31

tournament, who's not going to start Alex Morgan?

8:34

You know, we're all going to start Alex Morgan. Now it

8:36

feels like a missed opportunity. You know, if you

8:39

had put Sophia Smith up there in her rifle spot

8:41

from the beginning, what doors may have

8:43

opened. But Lynn Williams did

8:45

so well by, I don't

8:47

know, late in that second half, maybe

8:50

halfway through the second half, there was a sense of dragging

8:53

a little bit. Like the sharpness was no longer

8:55

there outside of the Williams. And

8:57

I should say no longer there to the degree it was there in the first half.

8:59

So it's like, let's make more

9:01

subs. You have so many players out there who've

9:03

played, you know, 270 minutes

9:06

and they have so many fresh legs on the bench. But

9:08

I can't believe we're having the same conversations we've had virtually

9:11

every episode. The subs thing is super weird

9:13

and I would like an answer. What have you got against

9:15

subs? So weird, especially

9:17

as the impact Lynn Williams had was so seismic.

9:20

She just needed a few extra fresh legs. And as much

9:22

as Rapinoe's product wasn't good, her energy

9:24

was good.

9:25

So let's get a few more on and then you

9:27

get an extra one, an extra time anyway. Don't

9:29

even, okay, don't get me started on the two you made in the

9:32

120th minute. We'll get to that. Yeah. They just look tired.

9:35

Emily Fox in particular was looking tired

9:37

for way longer than it took

9:40

to finally sub her out. I mean, she was just

9:42

limping visibly at one point before she's getting herself

9:44

together. So after full time,

9:46

I run into Jill Ellis, of course,

9:49

famous for being our first guest on

9:51

this season of the podcast and

9:54

chatting with her, you know, and I sort of like,

9:56

you know, leak a little bit like, Oh boy, Alex

9:58

Morgan, huh? Maybe.

9:59

And William Zugin, maybe she

10:02

should be up front, you know, and Jill

10:04

as clairvoyantly as you would expect. Cause you know,

10:07

again, but if you take out Alex, you know, you're

10:09

going to want it for PKs. These

10:12

frighteningly harbinger, soothsaying

10:15

words. Yes, but although, although if you

10:17

imagine the pressure on her, having missed one already, this World

10:19

Cup, that I mean, there was pressure, obviously there's tons of pressure

10:21

on every, on every

10:23

player when they step up, but I just feel there would have

10:25

been extra, not only cause she missed one, but also cause she's been

10:27

so outperformed. So when he took her, I

10:29

had the same thought. I was like, oh, hang on. That's a

10:31

penalty taker going off, but it's also a player

10:33

going off that's in no form at all, with no

10:36

confidence really.

10:37

I don't know if you were

10:39

able to see this on the telly

10:42

after I think the first half of full

10:44

time,

10:45

there was a flock of seagulls flying

10:48

overhead, spinning with great ferocity

10:52

and circumference and

10:55

shitting everywhere. Nice. And then shitting

10:57

all over the entire pitch.

10:58

I mean, there's a metaphor in there somewhere. And that's

11:00

when I started to think, this might not

11:02

go our way. Oh.

11:08

You know how if like one bird shits on you, it's good

11:10

luck. Yeah. How about, how about 50 of them,

11:12

shooting on you and 10 of your friends all at the same

11:14

time.

11:15

Too much of a good thing. Oh

11:18

brother. And then the shootout,

11:21

the goddamn, should know what the

11:23

subs first. Yeah, let's do the subs. Do you think those

11:25

were PK subs? And this

11:27

is bringing on O'Hara

11:28

and Muis. And they'd been standing there for a couple of minutes before

11:31

they finally got to go

11:32

in. I

11:35

mean, Fox luck went off, as you said she was exhausted

11:37

and sonnet. So they said on

11:39

the telly, Carly Lloyd said, Muis is definitely

11:41

a penalty sub. She wasn't so sure about O'Hara,

11:43

but either way, the optics were 1000% Marcus Rashford

11:47

and Jaden Sancho in Euro 2020, which obviously

11:49

was in 2021. And I just thought immediately, I

11:51

texted my husband and I was like, oh

11:53

no, oh no. He's doing the

11:55

Rashford Sancho thing. And Ali Wagner

11:57

said it a number of times as well. It is a massive

11:59

art.

11:59

for both of those players to go on and

12:02

take a penalty when neither of them got to touch

12:04

the ball beforehand. And yes, Muir

12:06

scored. And so you're like, oh, okay, he's vindicated.

12:08

No, he's not because he only vindicated if O'Hara

12:10

scores and she hit the post and it was a poor penalty. But

12:12

what's she supposed to do? She's been sat on

12:15

a cold bench for 120 minutes. And

12:17

then you're like, sorry, I know you've got a load of World Cup

12:20

experience. So could you just like gather all that together,

12:22

go out there and score a penalty? It's kind of

12:24

outrageous to treat players like that, in my opinion.

12:27

I am like staggered by that.

12:29

Coaches do it quite a lot. I'm not

12:31

a fan and I feel desperately sorry for Kelly O'Hara

12:34

more than I do Rapinoe and Sophia Smith. Sophia Smith

12:36

for me, the moment was too big. The moment

12:38

was too big and that's okay. She's a baby,

12:41

that's fine. Rapinoe's penalty

12:43

was

12:44

bizarre. And

12:47

her reaction to the penalty, did you see on the big screen,

12:49

she laughed, which she's gonna get a lot of

12:51

criticism for. I suppose you can't judge

12:54

people on their reactions because everyone's different, but

12:56

she's gonna get a lot of criticism for that. But

12:58

yeah, the penalties.

13:00

Can I just talk about Lindsay for a second, Lindsay Herran?

13:03

Yes. Sorry, just quick side note. I

13:05

mean, I thought today, Ennold Tournament,

13:07

I think she's been your best player. I think she

13:10

always steps up when needed. She always

13:12

wants the ball. Today was better because she was

13:14

further up. She scores goals

13:16

and has scored goals, one of the few who has. She's

13:18

hit the woodwork today.

13:20

She did the dirty work.

13:22

She's a great leader, as we know, she will be

13:24

in the pub with her at some point next week. And

13:27

she's got a perfect ponytail. Now I don't expect

13:29

you, Brendan, to understand the ponytail, but

13:31

the ponytail she's got is quite staggeringly

13:34

beautiful. It is literally

13:37

like measurement wise, volume

13:39

wise, length and shape. She

13:41

has the ponytail of the World Cup. Anyway,

13:44

that's just a very small thing aside. She

13:46

was excellent. Loved her, loved her pen.

13:48

I'll add one thing to just say about, Killer

13:51

Harris sitting there on the cold bench for 120 minutes,

13:53

then she comes in, and of course she wasn't scheduled to

13:55

take one originally. In which case, why'd he bring her in?

13:58

But by the time...

13:59

you're taking the seventh kick, you've also been standing in the

14:02

cold center circle for another 10 minutes.

14:03

Yeah, true. Also, also Naya

14:05

taking a penalty. I know she scored it and she was brilliant

14:07

with that and made some saves, but I

14:10

don't never like that for me. You got

14:12

to have your outfield players taking penalties. I know I'm coming from

14:14

a really weak position because she scored, but

14:16

when she stepped up, I was like, please for the love of be Jesus,

14:19

please don't miss because you can't, you can't

14:21

have your keep. I'm sorry. I'm not having that number 11 year,

14:23

but I'm not having that for number six. Sorry.

14:25

I mean, that's all finding good. And I don't want to tell you how to feel,

14:27

but I'm going to, I'm going to go deep cut on this. I

14:29

think you may have PTSD from

14:32

the Euro 2004 quarterfinal when, uh,

14:34

the Portugal

14:36

goalkeeper, uh, threw down his

14:38

gloves to make the final save, uh, a

14:41

bare handed, bare handed saves it. And then

14:44

breathing like a bull takes

14:47

the winning penalty, uh, to put England

14:49

away. And you were, you were but

14:51

a young girl of, of 12

14:54

at that point. I,

14:55

I'm sure that it was, it was fundamentally

14:57

scarring.

14:58

Uh, and perhaps you don't have objectivity on this particular

15:00

topic. Maybe. All right. So we're

15:02

up three to two, uh, Sweden

15:04

missed, but then Rapinoe had missed, but

15:07

then Sweden missed again. Yeah. So that's

15:09

when Sophia Smith had a chance to win it. That's

15:11

just so, so cruel. And

15:14

that is, I'm afraid of coming of age moment. You either

15:16

come of age, you don't. And she didn't. And like I said, it's

15:19

okay. Cause she's young and

15:21

she will have more chances, but

15:24

I don't know. You, you've got in those moments.

15:27

It is what separates some from others. Just

15:30

is. So the fricking,

15:34

what appears to be a double

15:36

save from there at first,

15:39

and we were down the other end a little bit, not all the way

15:41

down, but like, you know, certainly not

15:44

close and, uh, we

15:46

were celebrating

15:47

like, Oh yes, we are right back in this. And

15:50

then

15:51

when the referee, the great Stephanie

15:53

for a par is, you

15:55

know, holding everyone up for a second. It's

15:57

like, okay, well, wait a minute. Like it can't just be the.

16:00

the goal was over the line, right? Because she would have the thing on her

16:02

watch, is what I'm thinking at the time. And

16:04

then the watch would go off one way or another, she would know by

16:06

now,

16:06

what could they possibly be talking about? And then suddenly

16:09

she just

16:10

points the games over,

16:12

like, what the fuck is happening?

16:14

And it was, it felt like

16:16

three full minutes of just utter confusion.

16:19

I'm texting you. And you

16:21

tell me what was happening at your house. It

16:23

wasn't any easier there either.

16:24

No, because there was actually two minutes

16:27

and 20 seconds between the

16:29

final penalty, that penalty we're talking

16:31

about, and then when we saw the first replay of it. So

16:33

you're saying to me what's happening, what they're saying on the telly.

16:35

And I'm saying, well, I'm fairly certain we're

16:38

waiting on goal line technology, but we haven't seen

16:40

a blooming replay. I have no idea

16:42

what took so long from FIFA

16:44

to sort out getting a goal line technology

16:46

replay. Like you said, wouldn't it have just gone off on her watch?

16:49

I don't understand that. I mean, when they finally

16:51

played it in,

16:52

and so the whole thing, it was like the biggest anticlimax

16:54

of all time. The experience was awful. But when they finally

16:56

played that replay in and you saw, and

16:58

I took a screen grab of my telly and sent it to you,

17:01

I had to zoom so far

17:03

in on my phone to try and see a gap

17:05

between ball and line. There

17:08

was one, I mean, it's my new and thank God for

17:10

goal line technology. I mean, not for you in this particular case,

17:12

but the AR is a whole another conversation

17:14

that we have talked about before and can

17:16

lead to gray areas. At least with goal

17:18

line technology, there is no gray

17:21

area. And you know, you haven't been cheated.

17:24

And that is, that is a good thing in football. We

17:26

don't want you guys going through on when actually

17:28

it was wrong.

17:29

But it just added to maybe

17:31

this is why I ended up feeling sad for everyone

17:33

instead of just me, who of course, usually

17:36

is suffering the most in these occasions.

17:39

Because like, what's happening? What is what

17:41

is happening? Like on top of the fact, you know, it

17:43

should have been clear enough, like, oh, we've lost, but how?

17:46

Why? What? It

17:49

was incredibly anticlimactic

17:52

of what had been, you know,

17:54

a kind of a Titanic game up to that point. Today

17:56

was one of those games that is a great advertisement for

17:58

a nil-nil draw.

17:59

You know, the occasional nimble draw that is

18:02

a just, you know, high stakes, back and forth

18:04

incredible drama. Yeah. Cracker.

18:07

It was a cracker. But also there was double confusion because some people, when

18:09

the referee sort of did her hand signal, which our

18:12

listeners can't hear, but I'm doing it for you, Brendan.

18:13

Yeah. So like you're doing like the first

18:15

move of the hand drive right there. That's what I'm doing. That's

18:18

what I'm doing. Yeah. Some, I think

18:20

some people thought that when no, like no goal and

18:22

then there's a double confusion. What it meant was game

18:24

over a hundred percent and that added more confusion.

18:27

Like you say, just like, just a yucky way to finish.

18:29

Just left everyone feeling deflated.

18:31

And also she was pointing to the center circle,

18:33

which, you know, ordinarily I mean goal. Yeah. But

18:36

in this circumstance, it looks like she's saying like, and now you

18:38

guys take a penalty, you know?

18:40

Oh, minging. That's

18:42

what that is. Brendan, it's minging. Absolute

18:45

bonkers. I know that you, you've

18:48

been through so many more

18:50

of these PK shootout losses. You

18:53

know, you can, you can help talk me through it. Like

18:55

what happens next emotionally? What are the steps? It

18:57

gets worse. It gets worse. Sorry.

19:00

I mean, you probably weren't built to sleep. You weren't

19:02

built to sleep. Great. Our next

19:05

guest is a legend. It's

19:08

horrible, mate. I'm sorry. And there

19:10

really isn't any getting over it. And I'm still not over 1990 England

19:13

World Cup Italia. So you

19:15

know, you won't go over this for a while. It's

19:17

minging and

19:20

it's why we need to find another way to end a

19:22

football game. I'm sorry. I hate it.

19:25

It's the right way. We got to find another way, but that is also

19:27

another podcast.

19:28

Oh, football, football.

19:30

Hey folks who are just in this tournament

19:32

for the US. I know it's quite a lot of you.

19:35

Hey, if you're done after this, that's fine. That

19:37

is your right. Especially with these time

19:39

zones, but especially if you're just a fan

19:41

of the US WNT, you have

19:43

not had this feeling of like what the tournament

19:46

is over for me now, but there's so much tournament left.

19:49

It's a moment of transition, collect yourself. And

19:51

when you're ready, get back into the tournament because

19:54

there is a pretty excellent tournament underway and I bet it will stay

19:56

excellent all the way until the end. And

19:59

we hope you'll be with us.

20:00

And England are ready to welcome you in, my friend. We're

20:02

ready. Come and be a lioness. Come and

20:04

be a cheeky little lioness with us. Oh.

20:10

Oh.

20:19

This podcast is presented by State

20:22

Farm, which believes in amplifying the

20:24

voices and profiles of women

20:26

athletes. By ensuring coverage

20:28

for female athletes today, State

20:30

Farm helps set the stage for women's

20:33

sports tomorrow. Like a good neighbor,

20:35

State Farm is there.

20:41

Ladies and gentlemen, our next guest was the original

20:44

Women's World Cup star, the Golden Boot winner

20:46

at the 1991 tournament in China. And according to

20:48

FIFA, the greatest female footballer

20:50

of the 20th century. She scored the first goal

20:53

ever for the US. Please welcome the

20:55

ledge. Michelle

20:58

Akers. Woo. Woo. I'm

21:01

trying to manufacture a celebratory

21:03

vibe because we're so excited

21:05

you're here and yet we are all dying on the inside.

21:08

Our smiles are empty.

21:10

Same. I just,

21:13

so many things, like so much to unpack.

21:17

The heartbreak is and the agony is

21:20

like, how do you work

21:22

through that? I've been there though

21:25

in my career. The US has been there.

21:27

In 1995, we lost in Norway and

21:31

we played for third place. And it was

21:35

just a gut punch and gut wrenching

21:37

and like it's unfathomable

21:40

and you're completely lost

21:42

for the next six months because

21:45

you've put so much into it. And that

21:47

is this team. It's

21:50

shown all World Cup that we,

21:51

our mentality is not

21:54

there at the level that it needs to be. To

21:57

me that reflects everything as a goal

21:59

scorer, but I also.

21:59

was a defender and

22:02

a midfielder. So, you

22:04

know, when we aren't scoring goals,

22:07

it's a reflection of our overall team mentality.

22:09

And that's kind of what, how I've been looking at it.

22:11

And at the same time, so many freaking

22:14

players did

22:15

awesome and so much to be proud

22:18

of. Michelle, where does that mentality come from? You

22:20

talk about the mentality that wasn't there. And

22:22

that is one of the things that we've seen virtually

22:24

every tournament from this US women's national team

22:27

since you were playing. So why wasn't

22:29

it there? Where did it go?

22:30

Isn't that the million dollar question? It's

22:32

what every

22:34

athlete, every competitive

22:36

individual in any field wants

22:38

to have, tries to build on. You

22:42

know, it's the intangible

22:45

that changes everything. And

22:47

it comes from so many things. I

22:49

mean, looking back over the US women's

22:52

national team history, I was on that first team

22:54

in 1985. And

22:56

we had it from that first day.

22:59

And it's sort of this, you know, you're

23:01

talking about the nickname for

23:03

the US women's

23:04

national team. And

23:06

I think that's why it's so hard to put

23:09

a name to that team because what

23:11

makes them great is that intangible.

23:14

So the mentality, it's cultured,

23:17

it's in you, but it's also a culture

23:19

that is nurtured and built

23:21

upon every single day through

23:24

every experience collectively,

23:27

and also as individuals. And it's a mindset.

23:30

And sometimes players

23:32

have it and sometimes they don't. And sometimes

23:34

you have it and then you don't. That's why

23:36

it's so fucking hard to win at

23:39

this level. It's so hard. And

23:43

PKs, to me, everyone

23:45

hates them. I love them because

23:48

of that.

23:49

It exposes you and puts you

23:51

out there so there's

23:53

this chance to see who you really are. And

23:56

I love that. And

23:59

yet I hate it.

23:59

so much, but the

24:02

reward from putting yourself out there is huge.

24:05

What do you think the future holds

24:07

now for Andinowski? Do

24:09

you think it's the end of the line? I would suspect,

24:12

yes, we need a change there. But

24:16

the players seem to love him in this

24:18

world and in US soccer. The

24:20

players' opinions matter.

24:23

I would like to see someone with

24:25

a different perspective,

24:28

an edge, a fucking

24:31

fierceness. But that also

24:34

facilitates this collaboration

24:36

of a family where we are

24:38

out there together

24:40

fighting for each other and

24:42

celebrating to be our best.

24:44

I mean, that's what makes great teams.

24:47

So that's the kind of coach we need

24:49

to find.

24:50

And there's lots of them out there, but yet

24:52

there aren't. Well, in this time of darkness,

24:55

we still must come together for

24:57

our greater purposes and missions. And

24:59

of course, the purpose that originally

25:02

brought us to each other, Michelle, to which we will

25:05

detour here somewhat awkwardly, but still

25:08

out of great national necessity is

25:10

the search for

25:13

a proper national team nickname.

25:15

You have been following along with suggestions

25:18

that people have thrown in. And then you

25:20

feeling, again, that sense of patriotism and urgency

25:22

delivered to Rebecca

25:24

and I, your suggestion. But you suggested

25:26

that there was also a tale behind it. And

25:29

this is your floor. Please

25:31

share the tale. Thanks. OK.

25:34

I'm still grieving immeasurably while

25:37

we talk about a fun topic. I

25:40

know. We're in Irish wake mode at this point.

25:42

That is so good. OK,

25:45

so mine was USA. USA,

25:47

USA. So for

25:49

that first national team, and it spelled O-O-S-A,

25:52

that first US national team, we

25:55

played in Italy.

25:57

That game was in our first US

25:59

women's national game. and tournament was in Italy.

26:02

And the fans, it was huge.

26:05

It was sold out stadiums. It was a great experience.

26:08

Never mind we had to sew on our own

26:10

patches. That is a different story. But when

26:14

we took

26:17

the field, the crowd was

26:20

yelling, USA, USA, which

26:22

is USA. So right in Europe,

26:24

the U is U. So

26:26

it was USA, USA. And we thought they

26:28

were booing us. Then somebody was like,

26:31

I think they're saying USA. So

26:34

that became our cheer.

26:36

And we would all put our hands

26:38

in and be like, USA, USA,

26:41

USA, USA. So for the entire

26:44

history of the US Women's National Team, that

26:46

has been the cheer,

26:47

USA. It's still today?

26:49

Yeah. And if you look

26:52

at the US Women's

26:54

National Team PA website,

26:57

they've trademarked it, USA,

27:00

that name. And it's hashtag O-O-S-A.

27:03

Wow. Wow. So first of all, it's the

27:05

classic, the proverbial, they're not saying

27:07

boo, they're saying thing that

27:09

rhymes with boo, which

27:12

is always a winner. That

27:15

is a very powerful story, Rebecca. I'm sure you will

27:17

agree. And yet we cannot

27:20

say this is the conclusion of this journey because

27:22

the caveat on top of this is you're never

27:24

allowed to nickname yourself. You can't nickname yourself.

27:27

You can't have that happen. People got to

27:29

give you a nickname. It might still work out.

27:31

We will get down to a vote by the time this is all over, but

27:34

it is not the slam dunk that it sounds like it should be

27:36

right. Because right now I want to slam the laptop

27:38

closed. It's USA. But nope, can't

27:40

do it. People got to have their say.

27:42

But that is powerful and compelling. It's

27:45

so true. It's so true. It's

27:48

a good story though. Thanks for letting me tell it. Thanks

27:51

for letting us hear it. Let's

27:53

finish if we can, Michelle, on a brighter

27:55

note. Carly Loy said after. She

27:59

said after the game.

27:59

that this is going to be better for

28:02

the program that this happened. It is

28:04

going to be better. Are you with her?

28:06

Do you agree?

28:07

100% with her. She

28:10

has just been beaten

28:13

to death after saying that the US lacks

28:16

mentality and has had poor

28:18

performance. We

28:22

do. We did. We do. And she's absolutely

28:25

right. This is, you know, you got

28:29

to burn down what doesn't work and it's

28:31

been exposed. And the way

28:33

we do things as this US women's national

28:36

team is we

28:38

do the hard work. And now it's

28:40

like a time of reckoning, okay, this didn't

28:43

work.

28:44

We have to identify what changes

28:46

need to be made and then commit to that wholly

28:49

as a team

28:50

and as a program. So it's truly

28:53

up to the players. That's what the

28:56

story I brought up initially about that 1995

28:58

team where we lost

29:00

to the

29:01

Norwegian team. But

29:03

I loved playing that team and I have the ultimate

29:05

respect for those players because they made

29:08

us better every single game

29:10

and they beat us because we didn't have

29:12

mentality. Then we had to go away from

29:14

that and go,

29:16

what do we need to do to win? And then

29:18

we reconfigured and rebuilt

29:20

ourselves to step into the 1996 Olympics

29:22

and we won gold. They

29:26

can do the same thing. This is absolutely

29:29

a

29:30

gift, painful as it is.

29:32

And so let's see where we go from here.

29:36

I mean, not to

29:38

swear so much, but it's an emotional time. And

29:41

we had players out there who were first

29:43

World Cups with single caps, never

29:47

been on a field in that environment. We

29:49

lost huge pillars

29:51

of our team and we

29:53

had so much to reconcile

29:56

and deal with. So just showing

29:59

up at that World Cup is such a joy.

29:59

challenge and we did good, but we weren't good

30:02

enough. So we have a lot to be proud of and

30:04

there's nothing wrong with saying we weren't good enough

30:07

and we have to do better.

30:08

That said, I'm still all in,

30:11

ooze, ooze, ooze, ooze, and let's

30:13

do it, you know, let's grieve it and

30:16

do the Irish wake together and

30:18

let him, here we go.

30:21

And just before you go, Michelle, who's the winner? Who

30:23

do you think is going to win this whole thing now? I knew it.

30:26

Sorry. Wendy,

30:31

how can you do Japan over us,

30:33

first of all? I know, that was a big moment

30:35

on the pod. I know. I mean,

30:37

I've kind of been born out. That's really the only

30:39

silver lining I have today. Not wrong.

30:43

I got to say, I want Sweden because they

30:45

beat us. You do? I want Sweden,

30:47

but I also, I want England in

30:50

there. I want England. Yeah, you do, Michelle.

30:53

There's just something raw and

30:57

fiery about that team

30:59

and I do so much

31:02

to win. Not just

31:04

for the team, but for women's

31:07

football worldwide. So there

31:09

we go. All right. England

31:11

all the way. Michelle, it has been an absolute

31:14

pleasure. Thank you for bringing a modicum of light

31:16

to this darkness. We appreciate

31:19

you.

31:19

Thanks for having me. Thanks Michelle

31:21

so much. Have a great rest of your day.

31:33

On or off the pitch, women athletes deserve

31:35

to be recognized for being awesome competitors

31:38

and for being inspiring role models for generations

31:40

to come. That's why State Farm is proud

31:42

to present this podcast. Like a good neighbor,

31:44

State Farm is there.

31:52

All right, Brendan, let's pretty much wrap things up.

31:54

Have you got any bits and bobs, any American bits

31:56

and bobs, bits and bobs?

31:58

At least Jermaine too. evening.

32:00

First of all, we've talked all about the

32:02

US and not much about Sweden. And Sweden's

32:05

goalkeeper, Moshevich, had

32:07

a fantastic game. In particular,

32:10

she had a

32:12

reflex left hand save from Lindsay

32:14

Heran and 11 saves total. That

32:17

is Tim Howard-esque. So

32:19

well done, Moshevich. Also just a really

32:21

fun fact that I sort of realized, there's been nine

32:23

World Cups. It has won

32:25

four times. And of course,

32:27

they've lost one final. And

32:29

then they've won the third place game three

32:31

times, never lost the third place game. That

32:34

means in seven out of the nine World

32:36

Cups,

32:38

the US has won their last game

32:41

before going home. There's only the second time they haven't won their

32:43

last game. And there's something,

32:45

it may be only an asterisk, but

32:47

that's kind of a cool, you

32:49

know. The Great Nugget, that's what we call at work,

32:52

a good gold nugget. It's not

32:54

a chicken nugget. It's

32:56

not a bromous nugget. No, it's a just

32:58

a gold nugget. Definitely not a muck chicken

33:00

nugget. That's safe for rubbish. That's

33:03

good. Well, that's making me hungry for more bits and bobs.

33:06

Any bits and bobs coming out of Europe, Ickalo. No,

33:08

I just want to know what happens now

33:10

to the Great Brendan vacation,

33:13

which has lasted two days before

33:15

arguably, you could just come home. But

33:17

you're not going to, are you? So what, my friend.

33:20

So what now? What's on the agenda?

33:23

Oh my God, we came all this

33:25

way. Oh, good

33:27

Lord. We came all this way to literally

33:30

watch our team get shit on from the

33:32

sky. What's

33:34

next? All right. Well, she gals. Oh,

33:37

maybe we call them the she gals. She gals.

33:40

She gals. They shall have their revenge. Gonna

33:42

stay in Melbourne for one more day.

33:45

Then back to our

33:47

base in Sydney for

33:49

one day. A lot of planes, a lot

33:52

of planes. And then we're going to Auckland,

33:54

where of course we would have been preparing for the

33:57

the blockbuster USA Japan

33:58

matchup.

33:59

and that will only exist in my

34:02

poetry

34:03

that I write about imaginary soccer

34:06

games. Stay

34:08

in Auckland for a week and then

34:10

back us in for five. Like we're gonna do it. We're gonna

34:12

do it. We've come this far.

34:14

Can't turn around just

34:16

yet. All right, mate. Should we say goodbye

34:18

and let you go and cry? Yes,

34:21

thank you, please. It's all I've wanted for hours. Okay,

34:24

let's do the action. I need the closure. Be

34:27

sure to follow the show on Apple Podcasts where

34:29

you can also rate and review us. It really

34:31

helps people find the show.

34:32

And for round the clock, tournament

34:34

news, scores and standings, check out my

34:36

sports on the Apple News app where available.

34:46

Michelle Acres is

34:48

so heartening. I was really encouraged by that.

34:51

She also swears more than you. I

34:54

am not alone. No

34:56

one is alone.