0:16

We're broadcasting live from the command

0:18

tower on the plane of, it's

0:20

been on so many at this

0:22

point. This is tap tap concede.

0:25

My name is Graham. Welcome to

0:27

tap tap concede. Joining me, this

0:29

week we have Ben. Ah. And Wheeler.

0:32

And today, we're, does that feel

0:34

good? Yeah, good. Today, we're talking

0:37

about Commander Brackets Beta, but before

0:39

we get into that, I want

0:42

to remind everybody, of course, that

0:44

this show is brought to you

0:46

by our friends at Card Kingdom,

0:49

please check out, cardkingdom,.com/LRR, by your

0:51

cards there, their customer service remains

0:53

excellent. And if you tell them,

0:56

loading ready around the sent me

0:58

button, And it'll say a

1:01

funny thing. I don't know

1:03

what it says right now,

1:05

but we got to make

1:07

some more I think it

1:10

says And if not I

1:12

don't know I don't know

1:15

how that would translate, but

1:17

we can try a button

1:19

coded in being a button And

1:21

of course this show and everything

1:24

we do is brought to you

1:26

by you and your kind of

1:28

support of our patron and patron.com/loading

1:30

ready run. We really appreciate you

1:32

letting us do all of this

1:34

and want to shout out also

1:37

to Dragon Shield use the code

1:39

LRRMTG5 to get yourself 5% off at

1:41

Dragon Shield. So we've got Ben and

1:43

Wheeler here to talk about the commander

1:46

brackets beta which is still that's a

1:48

very key thing. Merely in beta. Yeah,

1:50

that needs to be stressed I think.

1:52

Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to say

1:54

things that may sound wild

1:57

to come from somebody

1:59

else. the Commander format

2:02

panel, but they are all

2:04

in an effort to push that

2:06

this is very much a work

2:08

in progress. And also, even

2:10

though it serves to give

2:12

guidance to players, it is

2:14

also wildly nebulous and will

2:17

not matter to any like a

2:19

large portion of the audience. Right.

2:21

Yeah. So you are on the

2:23

Commander format panel. Technically, yes. How

2:25

many other folks? Uh, God, 19

2:28

maybe? There's a lot. There's a

2:30

lot. Yeah, the, there are a

2:32

ton of people from all over

2:34

the globe with all different experiences

2:37

towards Magic the Gathering and Commander

2:39

especially. And it's made up of

2:41

folks who, uh, there's some people

2:43

who were on the Rules Committee,

2:45

some people who were on

2:48

the Commander Advisory Group, some

2:50

people from Wizards and some

2:52

people who are totally outside

2:54

of all three of those

2:56

things. Yeah? Yes, less people

2:58

from Wizards as there is

3:00

a team that is with

3:02

Wizards that will, you know,

3:04

work on the feedback that

3:06

we provide or, you know,

3:08

that occasionally chimes in and

3:10

asks us questions. But it

3:12

is mostly, I think almost

3:14

exclusively just non-wizards people. Gavin's

3:17

there. He kind of runs

3:19

the show and Gavin I

3:21

guess we'll say all right.

3:23

So yeah the brackets are

3:25

intended as a way to give

3:28

people the language to

3:30

compare deck power so that

3:33

if you're sitting down

3:35

at a table not power

3:37

if you're sitting in

3:39

tension so if you're

3:41

sitting down at a

3:43

table with someone to play

3:45

commander you have an idea of

3:47

what kind of thing to expect

3:50

out of a given deck so

3:52

that you're not necessarily facing

3:54

a like-minded goals yes okay

3:56

the big thing for me

3:58

that I instantly offer it is

4:00

it's giving you something a little

4:03

bit more tangible to work off

4:05

of yeah there's no lasagna yeah

4:07

it's not like out of ten

4:09

where everybody's like I'm a seven

4:11

ha ha ha yeah it's it's

4:13

it's a a small a smaller

4:15

range which I appreciate and B

4:17

has some very distinctive quote-unquote rules

4:19

within each of those brackets that

4:21

allows you to from a very

4:23

top-down sort of level,

4:25

quantify the cards in your

4:28

deck to a power level,

4:30

essentially, in a very hand-wavy

4:33

sense, at least for now,

4:35

it seems. Yeah, because, I mean,

4:38

we'll get into it once

4:40

we get in the

4:42

individual brackets, but like.

4:45

Your debt could be in a

4:47

bracket that doesn't necessarily reflect the

4:49

actual power level and sometimes players

4:52

are looking to match power level

4:54

rather than to match experience

4:57

because every player is different and

4:59

wants different things out of commander

5:01

and commander is the format where

5:04

you can do literally anything. Yeah.

5:06

Really hard to nail down specifics

5:09

towards anything. And so before

5:11

when people, not everyone either

5:13

went, when there was a. push to

5:15

use this sort of one through ten

5:17

system it was sort of like well

5:19

I can imagine what the what the

5:21

worst commander deck is and I can imagine

5:24

what the best commander deck is so on

5:26

that you know I'm probably like six or

5:28

whatever and now here we have you know

5:30

one through five so I was like yeah

5:32

I can imagine what a one might be

5:34

and I can imagine what a five might

5:37

be so yeah you know like my decks

5:39

I don't like probably like two or something

5:41

but that's not what this is no yeah

5:43

and like the old scale had it

5:45

served some purpose definitely it

5:47

wasn't one that was really

5:49

pushed by like a governing

5:51

body or any sort like

5:53

that but it was one

5:55

that left the evaluation in

5:57

the hands of magic players

5:59

who are notoriously terrible at evaluation

6:02

and are notoriously terrible at Magic

6:04

the Gathering as a whole, it's

6:06

a hard game. It's a really

6:08

hard game. And just like, losing

6:11

a lot of ether drift sealed.

6:13

And just like, yeah, asking

6:15

people that don't necessarily have

6:18

the best evaluation of the

6:20

game as a whole, but then

6:22

to evaluate what they are doing

6:24

and compare it to what other

6:26

people are doing, naturally they are

6:28

going to. Assume that well, I'm

6:30

being more honest than other people

6:32

because it's me and other people

6:34

are not going to be so

6:36

honest or they're going to you

6:38

know be more powerful than what

6:41

I would do because that's just

6:43

how humans work. Well, I think

6:45

the interesting thing like from the

6:47

article itself that was that was

6:49

posted was like the very

6:51

first sort of paragraph was

6:53

basically saying like If you are

6:55

playing, you know, kitchen table magic with

6:58

your friends and you have like a

7:00

play group that you play with, this

7:02

is probably not going to affect you

7:04

at all. Because you've probably, for the

7:06

most part, figured out a dynamic amongst

7:09

your group that you play with that

7:11

already works is fine, right? One of

7:13

the sort of main goals of this

7:15

is so that... you can play with

7:17

other people that you might not know,

7:19

or like you're at like a convention,

7:22

I imagine, or like an LGS or

7:24

something, and you can be like, hey,

7:26

we wanna play some commander. All

7:28

right, what kind of deck are

7:30

we playing here? And it's just

7:32

sort of be able to have

7:34

a little bit of a shorthand

7:36

instead of like, well, because like,

7:38

but prior to this, you know,

7:40

there's obviously the power level thing,

7:42

but then people started like tooting

7:45

like, like, well, Not everybody wants

7:47

to hear that from like five or six

7:49

different times while you try to identify which

7:51

decks you're going to play against one another

7:53

so this almost feels like a really The goal

7:56

is to make like an easier shorthand for this like

7:58

this. Yeah, this is a three it is a to

8:00

point at, which is very helpful

8:02

for tournament organizers or just people

8:04

that don't want, it's a weird

8:07

thing to say with a social format,

8:09

but people that don't want

8:11

a heaping spoonful of human

8:13

interaction with like arguing whether

8:16

or not what they're saying

8:18

is going to be accurate or

8:20

if it lines up with what

8:22

they have or like trying to

8:24

be like, hey, that deck really

8:26

hoses graveyes and I'm a graveyard

8:28

deck. Can you not? do that

8:30

like you're still gonna run in

8:32

two instances of that but like

8:34

being able to like sign says

8:36

to bud sorry yeah and I

8:38

mean as as enjoyers of alternative

8:40

formats and stuff I love the

8:42

idea of these brackets enabling you

8:44

know tournament organizers if you if

8:46

you know if you're making a

8:48

commander tournament or whatever to

8:50

be like we're having a

8:53

two tournament so your deck has to

8:55

follow these two Yeah, you right or we're

8:57

having a three tournament or something

8:59

like that like it Caught it's

9:01

a shorthand to skip socialization or

9:03

awkward conversations like that's a feature

9:06

of it That's not it exclusively,

9:08

but that is something that it

9:10

can do pretty well But it

9:13

also can be used to create

9:15

more conversations in environments where people

9:18

want to have that little extra

9:20

flare to make an evening out

9:22

of it to really like just

9:25

make the game a more social

9:27

and enjoyable experience of like, yeah,

9:29

maybe a store has like, you

9:32

know, bracket one night and

9:34

encourages everybody to bring their

9:36

deck lists with, like, side note.

9:39

the third parties were like contacted about

9:41

like updating their stuff to have the

9:43

bracket so like as soon as it

9:45

went live mocksfield told all of your

9:48

decks what brackets so i literally what

9:50

happened to me i was i was

9:52

for reference we're recording this on Friday

9:55

yeah at night is friday paper fighting

9:57

where i was built finishing the touches

9:59

on and the Commander Dicks for tonight,

10:01

and I refreshed the page just after,

10:03

because I wasn't watching the live, and

10:05

then it just said, bracket two above

10:07

my list. And I'm like, what the

10:09

hell? What is this? What does this

10:11

mean? And then took to social media

10:13

to discover it. To your other point

10:15

as well, I find it, I think

10:17

I've said this before, but like the

10:19

way that, I mean, I don't build

10:21

that many decks, but I mean, I

10:24

know that you're always brewing up new

10:26

stuff. You never, for any deck I've

10:28

ever built, could I tell you what

10:30

turn I'm expected to do anything? Because

10:32

I just don't play them that

10:34

often, right? It's like, oh, what

10:36

turn do you do? I don't

10:38

know. I hope one of them.

10:40

Real talk, I don't play enough

10:42

of the decks to be able

10:44

to identify that stuff at all.

10:46

And like a lot of the

10:48

times, if I whoopsy into like a

10:50

two card combo, it's because each of those cards

10:52

individually were centered just to quit the thing

10:54

I was building. And then they're both on the

10:56

field and you go, oh,

10:59

okay, you know, so.

11:01

The turn system also assumes

11:03

that your deck is relatively

11:05

min -maxxed. Like that you have

11:08

a repeatable pattern? That ain't

11:10

me. Yeah, that's not a

11:12

lot of people. Shoot,

11:15

that's not even CDH players. Have you

11:17

seen some of the garbage they're playing?

11:19

Which is, that's a whole nother story.

11:21

But yeah, it's the turn, the timing

11:23

thing is just like, well, I

11:25

mean my deck is built in a

11:27

way that 70 % of my hands I

11:29

have a rock on two and then

11:31

it goes to 60 % chance of

11:34

me having a rock on four and

11:36

then I can do this. It's like,

11:38

okay, but what does that mean? So what does

11:40

that mean? What are these numbers we're about? Yeah,

11:42

let's talk about it because I'm surprised by some

11:44

of these things the

11:46

dealio because. So

11:48

they did say like

11:50

it's more like, there's a graphic

11:52

that we're gonna show you on screen in a

11:54

moment while I sort of read through it. But,

11:56

if you aren't already seeing it. But the. They

12:00

did say, like, bear in mind the text

12:02

of the article as well. Like, there's

12:04

more to it than sort of

12:06

just these bullet points. And so

12:09

I'm gonna read through this stuff

12:11

on this graphic, on this graphic,

12:13

and then I'm gonna ask, we

12:15

learn to hopefully sort of expound

12:17

a little bit further. So, one,

12:19

exhibition. your ultra-casual commander deck. No

12:21

mass land denial or extra turns,

12:24

no two card infinite combos, no

12:26

game changers, more on what a

12:28

game changers shortly, few tutors. Two,

12:30

the average current pre-constructed deck, no

12:33

mass land denial, no chaining extra

12:35

turns, no two card infinite combos,

12:37

no game changers, few tutors. Three,

12:39

upgraded, above the strength, so beyond

12:42

the strength of an average precon.

12:44

No mass land denial, no chaining

12:46

extra turns. Late game two card

12:49

infinite combos are okay, and three

12:51

game changers. Four, optimized, high

12:53

powered commander, it's time to

12:55

go wild, no restrictions other

12:58

than the band list. And

13:00

then five, CEDH, high power

13:02

with a very competitive and

13:05

meta game focused mindset, no

13:07

restrictions other than the band list.

13:09

So. Yeah, no wonder all your

13:12

decks were like, oh, I

13:14

guess this is a two,

13:16

right? Because it's like, well,

13:19

you don't have, you're not

13:21

chaining extra turns together and

13:23

you're not CEDH, so I

13:26

guess that's most, aren't, aren't

13:28

most decks sort of comfortably

13:31

nestled into bracket two?

13:33

Two's and three's, yeah, for

13:35

sure. I think excited about,

13:38

about weirdo stuff. you're I

13:40

think most of my mocksfield goes between one

13:42

and three. I was gonna say I was

13:44

like most of my stuff has to be

13:47

one. Yes, the people the people who

13:49

are like, oh, new soldier lord who

13:51

poops out soldiers and gives all soldiers

13:53

five-foot-five. Chief, I'm chief. Yeah. Their decks

13:55

are like way up there probably and

13:57

have been like, I mean, I would

13:59

have If you've got a pet

14:01

deck that you've been optimizing

14:03

for the past decade, it's probably

14:05

in the four and five, which

14:08

I remember, I think BDM tweeted

14:10

that most of his decks are

14:12

forced on Moxfield. I played against

14:14

BDM. That doesn't surprise me.

14:16

Yeah. Yeah. But the brackets. Yeah.

14:19

The brackets. Talk to us about

14:21

brackets. So the first bracket number

14:23

one. like a spectacle, right?

14:25

You're there to do a

14:28

trick and share that with

14:30

people. You have a very

14:33

specific set of things you

14:35

want to showcase. It's more

14:37

about, you know, what ingredients

14:40

you are using than the

14:42

inevitable like pile of crap that

14:45

may... come at the end. It's kind

14:47

of like, I don't know, one of

14:49

those cooking shows where they throw in

14:51

a bunch of wacky stuff. And it's

14:54

like, I'm showing you that I'm using

14:56

this kind of food coloring or this

14:58

kind of fondant or this. And it's

15:01

like pretty cool that you are getting

15:03

to use all those ingredients. And then

15:05

when you put them all together, you're

15:07

like, tada. And it looks absolute

15:09

direct. Like it's just, it

15:12

looks terrible. But when you taste, you're

15:14

like, well, this is technically sugar and

15:16

vanilla, like, you know, it's not that

15:18

bad. I think you're going to go

15:20

the other direction with that metaphor where

15:22

it's like, well, you've made an amazing

15:24

sculpture out of food. This doesn't taste

15:26

good. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it can

15:28

be like that, but I think like,

15:30

I enjoy building a lot of one

15:32

decks because that's, I like showcasing weird.

15:34

aspects of this game, right? Little corners

15:36

of the history of this game. And

15:38

to me, it's not about the end

15:40

goal, it's about getting to show

15:42

off stuff that ends up connecting with

15:45

each other and being like, isn't

15:47

it cool that a game piece

15:49

from 1997, you know, locks into

15:51

this game piece from like 2017?

15:53

I love that so much. I

15:55

think, I think there are a

15:57

few times I see your face light

15:59

up. as much as when you

16:01

resolve a spell that has

16:04

an old border. And someone

16:06

goes, huh? Yeah, what is that?

16:08

What is that? Yeah, that's what

16:10

I want to know. There is,

16:12

like, personally, a lot

16:15

of my one decks do

16:17

fall into the category of

16:19

two because I like tutors.

16:21

I like finding my crap.

16:23

Which is where a lot

16:25

of these brackets kind of

16:28

muddy is about, you know,

16:30

railing in specific type of

16:32

cards. Even one only says

16:34

few tutors. Yeah. Yeah. So

16:37

that was my surprise is

16:39

I tend to not, I'm like, oh,

16:41

as soon as I, if I, if I.

16:43

Buried alive and throw three spooky

16:45

things into the bin. I worry

16:47

that my deck is too powerful.

16:50

Right. You know, I mean certain

16:52

tutors get more soon tutors are

16:54

more impactful than other ones the

16:56

right like some of the tutors

16:58

that we'll talk about once we

17:00

get to the game changer lists

17:03

are usually the ones that are

17:05

more open-ended or less manna intensive

17:07

so like buried alive is not

17:09

a game changer and is probably

17:11

safe I mean it kind of

17:14

depends on what other cards you're

17:16

looking to play around that buried

17:18

alive right where it's like Oh,

17:20

you're getting, uh, Valgovath, our kind

17:22

of cruelty and like anger or

17:24

something. Like, okay, that's gonna kill

17:26

all of us. Um, but as an

17:29

individual card, it's not going to

17:31

necessarily push your deck up to

17:33

the next bracket, something like

17:36

that one. I like what you're

17:38

saying though about like, using tutors

17:40

to make jank happen, I think,

17:42

is like this interesting sort of.

17:44

That's just a way every time

17:46

like discourse surrounding demonic tutor pops

17:49

up on the social media and

17:51

commander. I'm like, I don't know

17:53

what you're talking about. I always

17:55

play demonic tutor because it finds

17:57

my land or it just finds

18:00

whatever clunky garbage I want to play.

18:02

Yeah, and sometimes like, yeah, my demonic

18:04

tutor finds a sword to plow shares

18:06

to like kill your thing, but I'm

18:08

not doing it to be like, hmm,

18:11

I've used three mana to eliminate a

18:13

five mana threat, therefore I'm up, right?

18:15

Like I'm doing it because it's like,

18:17

well, we want to keep playing this

18:20

game, so I'm going to go down

18:22

this path. Yeah, you're not using the

18:24

tutor. to find the, you know,

18:26

for example, because they mention it

18:29

here a lot, the second half

18:31

of your two card infinite combo.

18:33

No. Yeah, that's, that's, that's unexciting

18:35

to me personally, if I'm looking

18:37

to build that style of deck.

18:40

So the, we're, we'll look at

18:42

the game changer list later, but

18:44

just to tell you what it is.

18:46

It's a list of like, specific cards

18:49

that could be called out as not

18:51

necessarily. problems, but like the kind of

18:53

card where you're like, uh, you grown.

18:56

Yeah, yeah. And, and, sorry, so bracket

18:58

one and two are like, no game

19:00

changers, which is, that's why I want

19:02

to live in bracket number two. But

19:04

three is almost sort of operating on

19:06

like a Canlander points list, because it's

19:08

like, you can have three game changers.

19:11

And I think that's, I think that's

19:13

interesting. Yeah, it's, I mean, having

19:15

a little treat. is fine, right?

19:17

Like again, having a demonic tutor

19:19

in your deck is not the

19:21

end of the world, especially if

19:23

you are just finding like whatever

19:26

card you want to get

19:28

onto the field to share

19:30

that experience with people or

19:32

to, you know, push your

19:34

own experience, your own game

19:36

plan or whatever. Right? It's when

19:39

you start loading them all up

19:41

and you have these different tutor

19:43

chains of like my expedition map

19:45

finds my inventors fair which finds

19:47

this combo piece and this combo

19:49

piece also the finds this other

19:51

combo piece or whatever like that's

19:54

when you get to be a little

19:56

awkward. That's that's once you start

19:58

to push maybe a little. bit past

20:00

three but even then like you

20:02

can have a bunch of really crappy

20:05

combos to set up some kind of

20:07

like I get to tutor every single

20:09

turn and then I'm I've now

20:11

assembled blasting station grinding station summoning

20:14

station salvage you know like yeah

20:16

long line of clunky artifacts from

20:18

20 years ago or whatever one

20:21

thing I do want to very

20:23

quickly mention about the jump from

20:25

one to two yeah is that

20:27

when you get to two it

20:30

in my in my mind in

20:32

the mind of some of the

20:34

other folks on the commander format

20:37

panel is that like if

20:39

one is show sharing like a

20:41

thing like I want to show

20:43

off this kind of thing for

20:45

the deck like it's a the

20:47

the tada then two is more

20:49

about like setting a theme

20:52

or a strategy or an

20:54

idea and then just like

20:56

the machinations of going through

20:58

that strategy. So like I'm

21:00

playing I'm playing caradora I have

21:02

a green white counters deck with like

21:04

plus one plus one counters and all

21:07

my cards are cards that care about

21:09

plus one plus one counters and so

21:11

that is likely going to fall into

21:13

a two because there's not really a

21:16

ha moment and look at this you

21:18

just are a deck with a game

21:20

plan that you want to take part

21:22

in. You want to like it's for

21:25

me it would be fun to play

21:27

things with counters and put more counters

21:29

on them and make them bigger and

21:31

I don't have tutors because it doesn't

21:34

matter my deck just all does that

21:36

thing and I'm just looking to ride

21:38

out that experience no matter which specific

21:40

card I have. Yeah I imagine like

21:42

Baby's first elf ball deck. would probably

21:44

fall in that way. Right, you just,

21:47

you put a bunch of elves together

21:49

and you're an elf deck doing elf

21:51

things and that's fun and it doesn't

21:53

matter which configuration of your elves you

21:55

have. It just matters that you are doing

21:58

elves, right? I think the article. was

22:00

saying like a good way to look at one

22:02

is like you have like some some funny

22:04

thing right like like this is my horse's

22:06

deck or like this is my deck that

22:08

has people wearing hats or this is my

22:11

deck that you know has the number four

22:13

in all the things right like that's great

22:15

that's a good way to look to look

22:17

at one kind of thing or like the

22:19

to da moments I think is a good

22:21

way to think is a good way to

22:23

look at it in that way and so

22:26

yeah and then two becomes this like Okay,

22:28

I have a theme and an idea

22:30

and this is like something that's probably

22:32

supported within the realm of like the

22:34

game. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I don't

22:36

have any infinite combos. I can take

22:38

an extra turn maybe as a treat,

22:40

but I can't chain them together. I

22:43

don't have any of the things on

22:45

the game changer list. Mass land denial

22:47

is a thing that they mention in

22:49

both. One and two as things that

22:51

you can't do. So there's like a

22:53

yeah, what's a denial as opposed to

22:56

land destruction? Back to basics, blood moon.

22:58

Okay, got you. Right, right, right. Those kinds

23:00

of things. Okay, where red shines. And

23:03

then, can you, four and five have the

23:05

same like restrictions, which is

23:07

to say none restrictions in terms of

23:09

cards that you can run, except for

23:11

the, except for the commander ban list?

23:14

So what's sort of the distinction between

23:16

four, which is optimized, high power commander,

23:18

and five, which is CEDH, high power

23:20

commander, but with a metagame mindset? Okay,

23:22

I'm trying to figure out an analogy

23:25

that is less violent than the one

23:27

in my head, and I can't. Four

23:29

is killing somebody with a hammer, and

23:31

five is using a gun. Like, both

23:34

will get the job done. But one

23:36

of them, one of them is

23:38

designed to do a thing. Thank

23:40

you. Yes. And like you can

23:43

get a really big hammer and

23:45

it'll probably still get that job

23:48

done or whatever, but it was

23:50

not necessarily designed for this goal,

23:52

nor is it optimized and uses

23:55

that optimization as a selling point.

23:57

And you're also not in a

23:59

dual. you know, you could be in

24:01

like a standoff where everybody has

24:03

guns or whatever and you all

24:05

agreed to bring your guns to

24:07

this, you know, Mexican showdown or

24:09

Mexican standoff. But Jim brought a

24:11

hammer and that wouldn't feel fair.

24:13

Yeah, exactly. You've made the distinction

24:15

between four and five. And it

24:17

didn't have to be a hammer.

24:20

One guy could have a hammered.

24:22

One person has a baseball bat

24:24

like, you know, you're all there

24:26

relatively for the same reason. We

24:28

said fives. The way I like

24:30

to think about it is like how

24:32

good is crater hoof, how good is

24:34

natural order into crater hoof behemoth? Because

24:36

like in CDH, probably not that good.

24:38

We can figure out different ways. Maybe

24:41

that does happen in some CDH sex,

24:43

but that's neither here nor there. But

24:45

like in like a high powered deck

24:47

where you're like, oh, you just tooth

24:49

and nailed for like, I don't know,

24:52

blight steel colossus and like, uh. Zena

24:54

God or whatever and that's a

24:56

bad example. I don't know. Blade's,

24:58

blade steel and something that gives

25:00

blade steel haste. Sure, like you

25:03

did this thing that like the

25:05

rest of the table is like,

25:07

oh, I guess we're dead, right? Or

25:09

like, oh, that's not cool. And then,

25:11

uh, it's, I call it big

25:13

gulp commander. It's very sweaty,

25:15

it's very big gulpy, it's

25:18

very like I've been refining

25:20

this deck over, you know,

25:22

months and years because I

25:24

need to kick Kevin's ass

25:26

at my LGS or whatever. And

25:28

they get so lost in the

25:31

sauce and then everybody else does

25:33

it because now they're the bad

25:35

guy. It's like an arms race.

25:38

Yeah, it's like bringing a food

25:40

deck to a canlander. Yeah, exactly.

25:42

I don't know why I shot

25:45

Search. Well, because this is a

25:47

magic content. I'm like recording. We

25:49

got it. We got to get

25:52

it in our dig. But now,

25:54

like, from reading it and looking

25:56

at it, it's like, you know,

25:58

I can make a. that's running like

26:01

opposition agent, Orkish Bow Master, Shield

26:03

Dread, like all these like disgustingly,

26:05

disgusting eye groany cards. But that

26:07

on its own isn't just going

26:09

to like net me into this

26:11

like instant win, right? Yeah, you're

26:13

not. And that's not even like,

26:15

you know, doing the things that

26:17

like a CDH deck might. Yeah,

26:19

if you're doing them off of

26:22

mocks diamond, chrome-mocks. and like you

26:24

have rock sigh in your command

26:26

zone, then like maybe you are

26:28

the bad guy there. But like,

26:30

yeah, it's one of the ways

26:32

to look at bracket four and

26:34

not to slam on players that

26:36

do play bracket four is they

26:38

are the reason this kind of

26:40

system exists. Because it's very much

26:42

like pub stompy, like if you

26:45

are not prepared to play against

26:47

this deck, this is the kind

26:49

of deck that people will definitely

26:51

undervalue for themselves and just like

26:53

demolish people. Because they're like, why

26:55

didn't you do anything? It's like,

26:57

well, because I played a three

26:59

man or man Iraq in a

27:01

casual game of commander. They're like,

27:03

oh. But I already played my

27:06

decree of silence solemnity. Like, you

27:08

needed to kill this before I

27:10

got this. It's like, well, cool,

27:12

I guess. I don't know, I

27:14

guess I should have, but it's,

27:16

yeah, it's that kind of pub-stomping

27:18

kind of player that you, that

27:20

it gets stereotyped and you'll see

27:22

at Magicons or you would see

27:24

at your LGS or whatever, until

27:27

somebody just goes like, hey dude,

27:29

you gotta. get a chill like

27:31

this is not not where you

27:33

are nobody's getting anything from this

27:35

unless they just get off on

27:37

winning I mean I'd hazard that

27:39

like people who are playing decks

27:41

in the four realm would not

27:43

necessarily be bummed out to fight

27:45

a deck in the five realm

27:47

you know like or you know

27:50

or like they It's tough to

27:52

say, right? Because it's like, if

27:54

they're like, well, my deck isn't

27:56

quite CDH level. And then, and,

27:58

and there. playing it and they

28:00

kind of fight against a deck

28:02

that might be CDH level like

28:04

I would imagine that's kind of

28:06

what they were expecting in the

28:08

way that we're describing right like

28:11

they're like that person is running

28:13

like you know force of will

28:15

to stop these like, or like,

28:17

you know, mental misstep or whatever,

28:19

right? Yeah, the, the four could

28:21

accidentally stumble into the five. I

28:23

doubt the five is ever going

28:25

to look for the four. Yes.

28:27

You know what I mean? Yeah,

28:29

yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that kind

28:32

of tracks with some of them,

28:34

like some threes can tangle with

28:36

threes. Honestly, personally, I. I have

28:38

always rolled my eyes over like

28:40

anybody being like, so what are

28:42

we feeling? Like what kind of

28:44

power level? It's like, I don't

28:46

know, I got something I want

28:48

to do. I'm going to do

28:50

it. I'm not going to be

28:52

the threat, but I'm going to

28:55

do this. Right, like I want

28:57

to play my two or I

28:59

want to play my one or

29:01

whatever. And so like the one

29:03

to three can kind of just

29:05

jive. I think that's what it

29:07

is, right? Like that's the most

29:09

quantifiable thing I can take out

29:11

of this is like you've quote

29:13

unquote protected. Yeah. One, like the

29:16

one through three sort of area

29:18

from the people and then like,

29:20

and neither is a bad way

29:22

to play. It's just like they

29:24

don't jive well together. And so

29:26

like having, having a just. distinctive,

29:28

tangible rule set and like, you

29:30

know, like, of what goes into

29:32

a deck, I think, makes it

29:34

a lot easier for you to

29:37

have the distinction where it's like,

29:39

I am a three. Because I

29:41

follow these three rules. And then

29:43

they're just like, well, my deck

29:45

has more than the things in

29:47

the three. And it's not a

29:49

three. And I prefer not to

29:51

fight that one. Yeah. For the

29:53

three with the tutors in the

29:55

game changers, too, I find that

29:57

three. is at this level where

30:00

I would look at my threes

30:02

and say, if people want us

30:04

to be on all twos, I

30:06

can change this to be on

30:08

to be a two and it.

30:10

doesn't really impact what I am

30:12

doing. That's what I've seen a

30:14

number of people posting about. They're

30:16

like, I have this deck that

30:18

is technically a three. Yeah. And

30:21

then I take out these three

30:23

cards and swap them with something

30:25

else. Now it's a two. Right.

30:27

It's still a super powerful deck.

30:29

Yeah. And it's fun. Right. You

30:31

still get to do your game.

30:33

Right. Yeah. So let's. Let's go

30:35

through the game changers. I'm not

30:37

gonna exhaustively read like every single

30:39

one, but I'll sort of summarize

30:42

for those who maybe aren't as

30:44

familiar, but I'm sure a lot

30:46

of these you will recognize as

30:48

sort of like, oh, that card.

30:50

Scryfall hopefully put together a page

30:52

that is, you can see all

30:54

the game changers in one thing.

30:56

And a reminder, these cards, these

30:58

are not banned in commander. These

31:00

have, yeah. And notably, they did

31:02

say, do not worry. these are

31:05

not like on their way to

31:07

the chopping block these are not

31:09

this is not a ban list

31:11

this is not a to be

31:13

it's not even a watch list

31:15

no it's not it absolutely you

31:17

are not like it's a do

31:19

not go selling your guy is

31:21

cradles or anything like that like

31:23

yeah do not worry these are

31:26

just yeah these are cards that

31:28

have been identified as game changers

31:30

cards that in some way change

31:32

the game in a way that

31:34

Some people don't love, I mean,

31:36

I don't love a lot of

31:38

these. And when you're in the

31:40

current beta, beta reminder of the

31:42

bracketing system, fours and fives, open

31:44

season, three's, you get three of

31:47

these, which I, ones and two's,

31:49

no. So good. Right, like, it's,

31:51

I think, I think, I like

31:53

the idea of, because playing with

31:55

powerful magic cards is fun. Yeah,

31:57

it's fun, especially when there's some

31:59

novelty to it. Yeah. I drew

32:01

my demonic tutor. Yeah. Yeah. What

32:03

am I going to do? So

32:05

in white, we have drannith magistrate,

32:07

which is opponents can't cast spells

32:10

from anywhere other than their hands,

32:12

like the command zone, for example.

32:14

Understandable. Enlightened tutor, which goes searching

32:16

for an artifact or enchantment. So,

32:18

you know, a specific tutor. Sarah's.

32:20

Sankton. Most of these lands are

32:22

going to be. Oh, right. That's

32:24

the land. Sorry. That's, it's not

32:26

the white zone. I forgot. It's

32:28

listed under white. They put it

32:31

in white, but yeah. Yeah, it's

32:33

a land. Smother, there it is,

32:35

Sarah Sankton, add white to your

32:37

manapool for each enchantment you control.

32:39

Smothering tithe. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, whenever

32:41

an opponent draws a card, they

32:43

made. like a two, three, man

32:45

of version or whatever. Oh, the

32:47

temporary truce or monologue tax. Yeah,

32:49

or something like that. It was

32:52

not good. Yeah. And trouble in

32:54

pairs, which is if an opponent

32:56

would begin an extra turn, that

32:58

player skips that turn instead. And

33:00

whenever an opponent attacks you with

33:02

two or more creatures draws their

33:04

second cart or casts their second

33:06

spellage turn. Also you draw a

33:08

card I like this one being

33:10

on there because it just has

33:12

so many or this or this

33:15

or when this game state thing

33:17

happens or when this you might

33:19

you just is hard to keep

33:21

track Yeah, there's a recurring trend

33:23

of some of these cards not

33:25

only providing a bunch of just

33:27

kind of ambient card advantage But

33:29

they're also just they just suck

33:31

to play with that's like like

33:33

it also isn't amazed. So it's

33:36

like oh shoot. I should have

33:38

drawn a card. Yeah more yeah

33:40

exactly more and more I'm starting

33:42

to take out cards in my

33:44

decks that require me to require

33:46

me to be paying 100% attention

33:48

to each person's turn. In blue,

33:50

would it shock you to learn

33:52

that there's a lot of cards

33:54

in blue? The most, cyclonic rift?

33:57

That's gonna make a lot of

33:59

people happy. It makes me happy.

34:01

Overload cyclonic rift and you return

34:03

everything that's not yours. Expropriate? Which

34:05

is a council's dilemma card, but

34:07

basically you get to take extra

34:09

turns presumably Or you just can't

34:11

control a stuff you get at

34:13

least one extra turn. Yeah Force

34:15

of will we know force of

34:17

will it's a free counterspell This

34:20

one I don't like I'm with

34:22

you I'm a force of will

34:24

gamer. I'm a fierce guardianship gamer.

34:26

But those are usually the only

34:28

counter spells I play. And it's

34:30

mostly to, like, I put them

34:32

in my blue decks because I

34:34

know that there's gonna be somebody

34:36

with a crater of beamith or

34:38

someone that's going to try to

34:41

like really end the game too

34:43

quickly or do something. And it's

34:45

like, well, this is technically. card

34:47

disadvantage, right? Obviously, hugely tempo positive,

34:49

man a positive as well, but

34:51

like, card being card negative and

34:53

being like a thing that you

34:55

just do in a game with

34:57

three other players. I love this

34:59

card. I love force will for

35:02

commander, but I get why? Because,

35:04

um, casuals hate force. Well, I

35:06

think, I think on derogatory. Yeah,

35:08

I think there's a. with bracket

35:10

three in mind because this is

35:12

kind of where it's I think

35:14

most effective is like I believe

35:16

there's like a number of counter

35:18

spells on this and being able

35:20

to limit the kind of ones

35:22

there the the types of counter

35:25

spells because it's like for every

35:27

person that's like you that just

35:29

wants to be to cast force

35:31

of will to stop you know

35:33

some Bajonkis from going off on

35:35

five. There's somebody who was like,

35:37

oh yeah. And when I'm building

35:39

my blue deck, I throw force

35:41

of will, manage rain, you know,

35:43

force of negation, but, and they're

35:46

like, why wouldn't I? I need

35:48

counter spells in my deck. And

35:50

they're like, oh, are you running

35:52

negate? And they're like, why would

35:54

I run negate when I've got

35:56

seven free counter- counter spell, force

35:58

of negation and pact of negation

36:00

are not on this. Yes, and

36:02

that's fine. So there's some free

36:04

counter spells. Yes. Yes. Rhystic steady

36:07

to the shock of no one

36:09

when an opponent casts a spell.

36:11

Do you pay the one? Just

36:13

ban this, Colonel. Just ban this

36:15

and smothering tithe already, please. Thos

36:17

is Oracle. So no more orthorical

36:19

nonsense. Ursa, Lord High Artificer. That

36:21

makes sense. I'm not sexy to

36:23

that. This is so funny to

36:25

me because I know so many

36:27

people. or I've heard of a

36:30

lot of people who are running

36:32

in Ursa Deck and stuff and

36:34

by virtue of that, you are

36:36

now, you're in three, no matter.

36:38

That's okay, good, that's understated. Yeah,

36:40

and I think that's, I think

36:42

that's really funny to me is

36:44

just like, Clarion Academy is not

36:46

banned, it's just in your command

36:48

zone. Yeah. mystical tutor, of course,

36:51

another, uh, Search Library for instance

36:53

in the Resorcery. And Jingataxius core

36:55

augur. This is the expensive Jingataxius

36:57

that you draw seven cards each

36:59

end step and also each opponent's

37:01

maximum hand size is reduced by

37:03

seven. This was the most maimed

37:05

one I think I saw in

37:07

social media. Yeah. There's just a

37:09

lot of like started from the

37:12

bottom now. I'm here kind of

37:14

like this because it's like now

37:16

I'm a watch list. Now I'm

37:18

a game changer. In black, Bolis

37:20

Is Citadel. So look at the

37:22

top card at your library, you

37:24

can play stuff from it, but

37:26

you pay life. Also, you can

37:28

sack 10 non-land permanence and each

37:30

opponent loses 10 life, so reasonable.

37:33

Demonic tutor. We've talked about tutors

37:35

a little bit already. And also,

37:37

Imperial Seal. Very funny. Oh, wait,

37:39

yeah, this card got a printing,

37:41

okay, never mind. This card was

37:43

only, only had a one, one

37:45

printing, and it was like $1,000,

37:47

and it was like $1,000. Opposition

37:49

Agent, we just banned this card.

37:51

This came up a lot in

37:53

the Highlander Top Eight. Yeah, this

37:56

card is, it sucks dude, it's

37:58

just Hull Breacher. Exactly, that was

38:00

what I was gonna say, I'm

38:02

like, I'm surprised Hull Breacher got

38:04

shot in opposition agent. Oh, look.

38:06

stupid idiot cast rampant growth well

38:08

sucks to suck. Yeah for those

38:10

who are familiar with opposition agent

38:12

lucky you yeah it's a three

38:14

two with flash you control opponents

38:17

while they're searching their libraries so

38:19

if you you someone's like yeah

38:21

I cast rampant growth then it's

38:23

like then you go okay I'll

38:25

be searching your library and also

38:27

what you can find for them

38:29

but then it gets exiled and

38:31

you get that card. Oh you

38:33

cracked an evolving wild? Well, you

38:35

deserve to die, pal. Don't know

38:38

what to tell you. It's just,

38:40

I hate this card so much.

38:42

Yeah. Miserable magic card. Turgrid, god

38:44

of fright. Good. So this is

38:46

the Turgrid that it's a four

38:48

or five menace for five that

38:50

whenever an opponent sacrifices something or

38:52

discard something, you get it. But

38:54

perhaps more glaringly, I don't know.

38:56

The other side of Turgrid is...

38:58

The, oh no, this, this side.

39:01

Is this side? Oh, I like,

39:03

I like the lantern. The lantern,

39:05

the lantern's cool. I play the

39:07

lantern in the command zone. With

39:09

the lantern taps to do the

39:11

thing. Is there a word for

39:13

this yet that they have the

39:15

choice of sack something, discard something,

39:17

or lose three life? It shows

39:19

up a lot now. It's like

39:22

a publisher mechanic. Villanese choice. Yeah.

39:24

Yeah, so the front side of

39:26

Turgrid is the bigger problem. Yeah,

39:28

you cast Dark Deal and now

39:30

you have, you got everything. Okay.

39:32

Yeah. Vampiric tutor, one more tutor,

39:34

and ad nauseum. Which is- That

39:36

made it a lot of people's

39:38

sad, I imagine, but I don't

39:40

think it surprised anyone. Well, it's

39:43

a little weird because on one

39:45

hand, this card is like known

39:47

as like a CDH card, right?

39:49

But it doesn't- at least in

39:51

my experience and in like talking

39:53

about the creation of this list

39:55

or watching people talk about the

39:57

creation of the list is that

39:59

like this card is mostly sequestered

40:01

to CDH. Like it very rarely

40:03

shows up in high level, like

40:06

high power non CDH commander. And

40:08

in fact, I see it more

40:10

in like meme decks of them

40:12

like, what if I play demon

40:14

lord, bells and lock and ad

40:16

nauseum sort of effect and just

40:18

a bunch of lands or did

40:20

something kind of goofy. But like,

40:22

I mean, I guess I get

40:24

it, it's just feels a little

40:27

like. Like if the

40:29

game changes are here to stop

40:31

feel bads, this is a weird

40:33

one to me, but it also,

40:35

who cares, it's ad nauseum. Like.

40:37

Which for those unfamiliar is you

40:39

reveal a top card to your

40:41

library and put a card into

40:43

your hand and you lose life

40:45

equal to its man of value

40:47

and then you can just keep

40:49

doing that. Yeah, well, yeah, pair

40:51

this with some sort of like

40:53

unlife effect or whatever and be

40:55

able to do it and it's

40:57

fine. Yeah. But if somebody did

40:59

this and then like. Soul converted

41:01

me I'd be I'd just laugh

41:03

and have fun. Yeah, exactly It's

41:05

like when you're flipping over box

41:07

diamonds crow moxes and dark rituals

41:10

like yeah, this card's messed up

41:12

But if it's like no, no,

41:14

I'm just going to activate my

41:16

mirror universe Yeah, it's like yeah,

41:18

that's dope In red, only two

41:20

cards. Only two, baby. You were

41:22

saying it's the most fair, it's

41:24

the most fair color. Yeah, change

41:26

my mind. And everyone was coming

41:28

at me where they're like, well,

41:30

it's the land destruction, blah, blah,

41:32

blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,

41:34

I know. Jessica's will, which, of

41:36

course, is, you either add a

41:38

red for each card and target

41:40

opponent's hand or you exit the

41:42

top three cards of your library

41:44

and you can play them this

41:46

turn, but you can play them

41:48

this turn, but you get to

41:50

do both if you have. and

41:53

underworld breach. Which is everything in

41:55

your graveyard has escaped. The two

41:57

cards that are often played in

41:59

conjunction with one. This card is

42:01

just so funny that it exists.

42:03

It is. It's such a defining...

42:05

It's a perfect encapsulation of everything

42:07

wrong with Theras beyond death. You

42:09

can see the thought process that

42:11

they made up escape, they had

42:13

this mechanic, and it's like, yeah,

42:15

escape's really cool. You want to

42:17

have some sort of like past

42:19

in flames. Yeah, you know, we

42:21

should do a thing where like

42:23

everything in your graveyard has escape

42:25

for a turn. Yeah, what a

42:27

great idea. Wait, hold on. Yeah.

42:29

And so we make them excel

42:31

the card after they escape it,

42:34

right? Right. Oh no, we just

42:36

made better yog quill. Oh no!

42:38

We got a brain already, darn

42:40

it. All right, different yogwill, but

42:42

mostly better. It was really cool

42:44

though, I will say like I

42:46

was not, underworld breach, I was

42:48

not familiar with your game. Until

42:50

like I got to actually like

42:52

really play it against it in

42:54

Canlander and stuff and just sort

42:56

of like, it was always this

42:58

one that I'm like, oh this

43:00

seems like way too big brain

43:02

for me. Oh, brain freeze just

43:04

makes this, you can do whatever

43:06

you want. Yeah, not to slam

43:08

surge or anything now, but this

43:10

is like Baby's first combo. Like

43:12

Baby's first storm combo? Yeah. And

43:14

like, that's, it's still not the

43:17

easiest thing in the world getting

43:19

to that point. But once you

43:21

have the A plus B, like,

43:23

it's, yeah, you just brain freeze

43:25

yourself and then cast a lotus

43:27

pedal or an LED or a

43:29

black lotus and go off. Yeah.

43:31

Green. You have jeweled. Good. Glad

43:33

that card's gone. We've got survival

43:35

of the fittest in green. Discard

43:37

a creature. Search your library for

43:39

a creature. For some reason I

43:41

thought this card was banned. I

43:43

mean, it's not. I'm thinking of

43:45

like natural order. It's banned in

43:47

legacy. Yeah. Warren Clex voice of

43:49

hunger. This is the... So weird.

43:51

This is the eight man of

43:53

Warren Clex that it like... it

43:55

makes your lands produce more manna

43:57

but your opponent's lands just don't

44:00

untap yeah i mean this card

44:02

does suck it does it really

44:04

I just I feel like I

44:06

haven't I mean maybe that's just

44:08

not the magic that I'm playing

44:10

but like I I don't see

44:12

him around that often. Yeah it's

44:14

the kind of card where somebody's

44:16

like I haven't updated my commander

44:18

deck since 2016 and you're like

44:20

okay well you're in for a

44:22

treat and then they play this

44:24

you're like oh yeah like is

44:26

he still good? He's a 7-6.

44:28

And then in green, at least

44:30

by color identity, of course, is

44:32

the land guy is cradle. So

44:34

tap for one man of each

44:36

color. Or tap, sorry, tap to

44:38

add green for one, each creature

44:40

you control. Wow, what did I

44:43

say? Tapped one green for each

44:45

creature you control. Wow, what did

44:47

I say? Tapped one green for

44:49

each, tap to add five green.

44:51

Honestly? All the colors of green.

44:53

Sometimes that's worse than what this

44:55

card than what this card. commanders

44:57

basically so we've got Kenan or

44:59

Kenane Kenan Kenan Kenan Kenan Kenan

45:01

Bonder Bonder Prodigy CDH all star

45:03

for a while yeah whenever you

45:05

still is this card yeah whenever

45:07

you tap an online permanent for

45:09

manna you add more manna and

45:11

then seven manna look at the

45:13

top five cards your library you

45:15

could put a non-human creature from

45:17

among them into the battlefield oh

45:19

liqueoria yeah urico the tiger's shadow

45:21

a little more recent I think

45:23

this was like I'm I'm bummed

45:26

out for new magic players who

45:28

are like, oh, I want to

45:30

make a Ninja Deck. And they're

45:32

like, I've heard Yurikos, the Ninja

45:34

Person. And now you're just kind

45:36

of like instantly in that weirdo

45:38

zone. I think this is to

45:40

just get players to play with

45:42

different cards. Just to be like,

45:44

hey, I would agree with that.

45:46

Oh, you want to play a

45:48

Ninja Deck? Don't worry about urico.

45:50

Here's this weird turtle from jumpstart.

45:52

Or here, I don't know, play

45:54

this, like, there's probably a kaido

45:56

that you can use as your

45:58

commander or some crap. You've got

46:00

options. You don't need this thing.

46:02

Play, um, uh, Satoru. Sure. Yeah,

46:04

yeah. Yuriko has commander Ninjitsu, which

46:06

is, she can Ninjitsu from the

46:09

command zone. For two men. Which

46:11

is so cheap. And then when

46:13

a Ninja deals combat damage, you

46:15

get to reveal the top card

46:17

to your library and you put

46:19

it in your hand and also

46:21

each opponent loses his life equal

46:23

to his man of value. You

46:25

get to Bob wrong. Winota. Good.

46:27

Yep. Winota Joiner of Forces, this

46:29

is whenever Winota attacks, you just

46:31

get to put a bunch of

46:33

humans on the battlefield. Yeah, this

46:35

card's messed up. And Grand Arbiter,

46:37

Augustine. So forth. This is so

46:39

messed up. My Grand Arbiter deck

46:41

is not that bad. I have

46:43

a Grand Arbiter Voltron deck, where

46:45

it's like I just load him

46:47

up with enchantments, because he makes

46:49

all my big clunky oars cheaper.

46:52

So it's like octopus umbra. grand

46:54

arbiter. And you took off that

46:56

last line of text, you'd be

46:58

safe. Yeah, but I know the

47:00

last line of text helps my

47:02

grand arbiter not get killed. Yeah,

47:04

sure. Because it's the, I don't

47:06

have any other protection. Yeah, yeah.

47:08

Well, I mean, hey, you're gonna

47:10

be a three and just have

47:12

this. I'm bringing this to the

47:14

tables with one. I'm gonna be

47:16

a bad actor here. And finally

47:18

in colorless, some stuff that I

47:20

mean, I don't think any of

47:22

any of this is. Particularly surprising

47:24

but I've got one of them

47:26

is I really want them to

47:28

just be like Mindstone Ancient tomb

47:30

yeah that makes sense this card

47:33

is unbelievable taps for two unless

47:35

or taps for two and pings

47:37

you for two do the thing

47:39

chrome box do the thing do

47:41

the thing so that I just

47:43

got one of these we're chrome

47:45

box sorry No, that

47:47

was intentional. Oh, okay. I heard

47:49

him yawn. Does that count? All

47:51

right. He said, oh darn, I

47:53

have to stop playing arena on

47:55

my phone. Oh, oh. The one

47:58

ring. make sense. Yeah. Have you

48:00

read this card? This card's messed

48:02

up. It's pretty good. Unbelievable. The

48:04

tabernacle at Pendledale. This is so

48:06

funny. This cracked me up. Yeah,

48:08

this is so funny. Also just

48:10

because of the length of the

48:12

the name of the card is

48:14

it like almost runs off the

48:16

side of the page because they

48:19

formatted it so the colorless for

48:21

all the way on the right.

48:23

It's just like there are only

48:25

like... I don't know, I mean,

48:27

well there are Italian copies, but

48:29

there are like, I don't know,

48:31

5,000 copies of this card or

48:33

whatever, like a very low amount,

48:35

and like two of those people

48:37

are in that work at this,

48:40

like office. Yeah, you and surgery?

48:42

Yeah, and it's just like, I

48:44

don't know, like, I guess you

48:46

want to make this a game

48:48

changer, but like, who the hell

48:50

is playing this? If you're unfamiliar,

48:52

and because why wouldn't you're, because

48:54

why, All creatures have at the

48:56

beginning of your upkeep sacrifice this

48:58

creature unless you pay one. God,

49:01

could you imagine that? That's it.

49:03

That's all it does. I think

49:05

also along the lines of like

49:07

rustic study and trouble with pairs

49:09

and stuff, this gives those creatures

49:11

that ability, not this land having

49:13

the ability. So then it's a

49:15

bunch of like, hey, you gotta

49:17

pay your tabernacle or like they

49:19

have to announce all the triggers.

49:21

Oh, they have to keep track

49:24

of what their creature. Tragored ability?

49:26

I love the, Jamesons pull up

49:28

the original wording. All creatures now

49:30

require an upkeep cost of one

49:32

in addition to any other upkeep

49:34

costs they may have. If the

49:36

upkeep cost for a creature is

49:38

not paid, the creature is destroyed.

49:40

It's so, it's so passive voice.

49:42

If like, if the upkeep cost

49:45

is not paid, the creature is

49:47

destroyed. Sorry, I mean, that's just

49:49

the rules of manage the gathering.

49:51

You. I'm just a legendary land.

49:53

I just played the land. You're

49:55

the one who has to keep

49:57

track. Well, so long. Trinosphere. Trinosphere

49:59

is also there. Yeah! This is

50:01

also just like, yay! I mean,

50:03

I get it. Like, I don't

50:06

know. Three ball, it's like, oh,

50:08

dang. My bracket two deck. was

50:10

really hoping to three ball. Man,

50:12

when we did CDA each night

50:14

on Friday night, a paper fight,

50:16

and surge had the Trinosphere deck,

50:18

like, that was a fun stream.

50:20

That deck sucked. Trinosphere griffins? Yeah.

50:22

Yeah. Well, because he played that,

50:24

and then the second game that

50:27

we played, he played the other

50:29

sort of one, the... Oh, dampening

50:31

matrix? Damping? Oh, did he played

50:33

damping sphere or dampening sphere? Yeah.

50:35

Yeah, anyway, they've also played the

50:37

major. I'm pretty sure he played

50:39

Trinosphere on turn two in one

50:41

of those games. This is so

50:43

fun, because Angel has a triad

50:45

of fate stack that is based

50:48

around the number three, which is

50:50

like the deck that you mentioned

50:52

that would be like tier one

50:54

or whatever, bracket one. And I'm

50:56

pretty sure she's playing Trinosphere. So

50:58

it's like, nope, sorry, bracket four.

51:00

There you go. Three, perfect. Oh

51:02

my God, it is perfect. Grim

51:04

Monolith. Yeah, that's that's building taps

51:06

for three manna. Lions-eye diamond So

51:09

it's like, you know, it's just

51:11

like Black Lotus Mox diamond and

51:13

Man of vault Understandable and finally

51:15

nothing a trend glacial chasm. This

51:17

is so yeah, yeah, like I

51:19

get it because it just says

51:21

nobody gets to play But cumulative

51:23

upkeep pay-to life, when it comes

51:25

into play, sack of land, creatures

51:27

you control can't attack and prevent

51:30

all damage that be dealt to

51:32

you. So the game changer list

51:34

is not exhaustive of every card

51:36

that could fall under this category,

51:38

right? Like it's a beta list,

51:40

this is, there are cards that

51:42

are not on this list, that

51:44

probably could be, like necropotence or

51:46

misheris workshop. you know, there are

51:48

cards that could land on there.

51:50

There are cards on here that

51:53

may be taken off the list

51:55

because it's like, well, People weren't

51:57

playing this but now that we're

51:59

talking about it people might play

52:01

this sort of thing like it's

52:03

a there It's trinosphere dude, like

52:05

you don't need it as a

52:07

game changer sort of thing like

52:09

you could make an argument towards

52:11

that and I like it I

52:14

like that it is not a

52:16

banless, but it is a Hey,

52:18

dude, these cards are messed up

52:20

and like sometimes that that's all

52:22

people need. They just need like,

52:24

yeah, that people might not know

52:26

the effect of something like, I've

52:28

played this card and I haven't

52:30

played against it. Yeah. So I

52:32

don't know how fighting against it

52:35

feels, right? But I mean, yeah,

52:37

I'm in favor of this like

52:39

as a, as. Just a little

52:41

guy. I'm looking forward to only

52:43

playing twos ones and twos from

52:45

here on out like I don't

52:47

want to see any of those

52:49

cards frankly So it's like great

52:51

cool. Yeah, and on the flip

52:53

like I'm the same I'm happy

52:56

to go up to three because

52:58

I like the idea of knowing

53:00

that if I am in three

53:02

and I'm seeing somebody, you know,

53:04

like and they're running like smothering

53:06

tide or something like that, there's

53:08

only gonna be two other cards.

53:10

Yeah, you're not gonna see- Yeah,

53:12

you're not gonna see- In that

53:14

realm. Yeah, I can see rift

53:17

and forcible and fierce guardianship and

53:19

did an and ristic study and-

53:21

Exactly, right? Like it's like there's

53:23

a very high chance that prior

53:25

to this, people who were running

53:27

those cards in every deck, were

53:29

running those cards and every deck,

53:31

you know, you know, bringing that

53:33

down to like now, I think

53:35

it makes a much more interesting

53:38

deck building kind of experience too,

53:40

right? Where I think one of

53:42

the complaints that a lot of

53:44

people have had about commander, you

53:46

know, over the past like decade

53:48

or so, is there so many

53:50

just auto includes in the format

53:52

in the form of these game

53:54

changers and stuff? And so I

53:56

think curbing that, you know, instead

53:58

of being like. So, you know,

54:01

I have my commander, so I

54:03

have 99, but then I got

54:05

to play soul ring and arcane

54:07

signature, so now I'm down to,

54:09

you know, 97 choices or what.

54:11

But then I am in white,

54:13

so I need to run smothering,

54:15

tie, the path of exile, blah,

54:17

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And

54:19

it's like really you're only making

54:22

like 30 actual choices or whatever.

54:24

Like that, for the people who

54:26

do build in that way. this

54:28

might offer a different avenue. Yeah,

54:30

modern legends especially are very prescriptive

54:32

in what they do and what

54:34

you play around them and you'll

54:36

pair that with what Ben says

54:38

of like, I'm a white deck,

54:40

I'm going to include all these

54:43

white cards even after I've already

54:45

loaded up on the essentials or

54:47

whatever, you know, the three cards

54:49

they put in that Foundations beginner

54:51

product. Yeah. And it can get

54:53

to be a little... Samey times

54:55

for both your experience as somebody

54:57

playing that deck and the experience

54:59

of other people because it's like,

55:01

oh, this is the third pot

55:04

in a row that I've ran

55:06

into with somebody playing a Captain

55:08

Howler deck or whatever. and shaking

55:10

that up is one of the

55:12

best things you can do to

55:14

help your enjoyment with commander. And

55:16

that is tough for a lot

55:18

of people because building decks and

55:20

brewing decks is tough and figuring

55:22

out what to switch, where to,

55:25

or even just like acquiring the

55:27

cards can be difficult for some

55:29

people. But one of the easiest

55:31

ways to onboard people to like

55:33

a lifestyle of customization and maybe

55:35

not. playing the most optimized pile

55:37

is through having a limited amount

55:39

of game changers. And for what

55:41

it's worth, as somebody that has

55:43

been involved with a format that

55:46

has a points list where you

55:48

only get so many of them.

55:50

That is like, it's like points

55:52

list. It's literally what it's called.

55:54

But for like, you know, this

55:56

game changer is in a way

55:58

a points list. One of the-

56:00

You did call out Canlander specifically

56:02

in the article. Yeah, thank you.

56:04

One of the things about the

56:07

points list. that can apply to

56:09

the game changer as well is

56:11

this sounds really harsh but like

56:13

the the biggest thing that the

56:15

points list or the game changer

56:17

list can do is convince people

56:19

that their decisions matter even when

56:21

they don't and that's great because

56:23

it doesn't matter like realistically how

56:25

big of an impact is it

56:27

if you're like I'm gonna do

56:30

it I'm gonna play worldly tutor

56:32

instead of enlightened tutor it's just

56:34

like Okay, like it's not you

56:36

know out of a hundred games.

56:38

How many times are you really

56:40

going to? Run into that decision

56:42

mattering, but when it does you

56:44

feel like a genius Right you're

56:46

like oh my god if that

56:48

had been an enlightened tutor. I

56:51

would have been dead or you

56:53

run to you're like Actually, I

56:55

want to change that back to

56:57

enlightened tutor. Then you feel smarter

56:59

about the decision you made and

57:01

you feel more connected to your

57:03

deck because you are actively changing

57:05

like around the most important cards

57:07

in your strategy. So. When it

57:09

does matter, it feels good. And

57:12

when it doesn't matter, it still

57:14

feels good because you are, you're

57:16

getting to fidget with things, right?

57:18

Like, this can also kind of

57:20

lead into how a lot of

57:22

players, especially the more online or

57:24

more invested players, engage with magic,

57:26

is that they demand fidget spinners,

57:28

right? They demand commander bandless discourse.

57:30

They demand talking about mass land

57:33

destruction or whatever. Right? This just

57:35

it permeates throughout the entire range

57:37

of people who are annoying online

57:39

to people who are annoying in

57:41

store of like talking about the

57:43

format and talking about the game.

57:45

And so the game changer list

57:47

also does that and that it

57:49

creates conversation. It creates discussion about

57:51

like, well, what game changers are

57:54

you playing? Which game changers should

57:56

be game changers? Which ones shouldn't

57:58

be? And thinking about why they

58:00

are making those decisions or why

58:02

other people have and they haven't.

58:04

And that's a very cynical take

58:06

on this is that that is

58:08

a great distraction for people that

58:10

we want to distract while we

58:12

work on actual stuff because again

58:15

I hinted this at the beginning

58:17

of this episode. All of this

58:19

is very nebulous. All of this

58:21

can mean nothing to a bulk

58:23

of the player base. But to

58:25

the folks that are more invested

58:27

in it, the ones that are

58:29

going to take all this and

58:31

move forward with this information in

58:33

a positive light are hopefully going

58:35

to act as like ambassadors to

58:38

their play groups or even like

58:40

act as like. representatives at Magic

58:42

Cons for like, yeah, let's play

58:44

with twos, you know, and you

58:46

get other people to kind of

58:48

follow with that energy. Yeah, I

58:50

think it's really cool to have

58:52

the ability as well, like from

58:54

a new player perspective, like if

58:56

you're just getting into the game

58:59

and whatnot, the ability to have

59:01

like a... Like a list essentially

59:03

like a deck building sort of

59:05

guide of being like okay. Well,

59:07

you know I would like to

59:09

try and be in this realm

59:11

So what what kind of cards

59:13

do I get to put in

59:15

there and and just having sort

59:17

of like a guideline Because it's

59:20

like because then it also gives

59:22

them another way to become more

59:24

enfranchised where they're just like I

59:26

would like to move up to

59:28

this next bracket what not right

59:30

what card should I be looking

59:32

right and and and and what

59:34

you know? How do I improve

59:36

my deck in my deck in

59:38

that way? I think it also,

59:41

I could see this also having

59:43

a slight reaction to that last

59:45

big banning kind of a thing,

59:47

where it kind of gives, I

59:49

guess like a little bit more

59:51

faith in the market, in a

59:53

sense where they're just like, we're

59:55

putting this card in the game

59:57

changer thing, it's not gonna be

59:59

banned, don't worry, and you can

1:00:02

still play with it and stuff.

1:00:04

So it's like you can, the

1:00:06

players who were, who did, you

1:00:08

know, get all pissy and stuff

1:00:10

about these cards that we're getting

1:00:12

banned. that are now worth nothing

1:00:14

and stuff like that. Now, it's

1:00:16

like, you can, no, you can

1:00:18

still play with it. And if

1:00:20

you're trying to play with your,

1:00:23

in like these like lower kind

1:00:25

of tier things, then you kind

1:00:27

of, then you're sitting in three

1:00:29

and you have to make some

1:00:31

conscious decisions. And if you're wanting

1:00:33

to play with it in every

1:00:35

single deck, here's this four to

1:00:37

five group that you get to

1:00:39

continue to play with it. It's

1:00:41

not gone. It's just on this,

1:00:44

on this list to, to, to

1:00:46

identify the fact that. promotes a

1:00:48

certain style of gameplay. Yeah, you

1:00:50

can argue that the commander banless

1:00:52

or even just approaching the idea

1:00:54

of banning cards in commander is

1:00:56

a fruitless endeavor because like you

1:00:58

there, I mean, you ban one

1:01:00

time walk, you go to ban

1:01:02

the others, you ban one wheel

1:01:04

or one draw seven, you're gonna

1:01:07

ban the others, like it's, you

1:01:09

ban manuscript, how come you're not

1:01:11

banning mandivolt or soul ring or

1:01:13

ancient tomb or whatever, but like

1:01:15

the game breakers is a way

1:01:17

to... do exactly that of being

1:01:19

like, well, if you're playing at

1:01:21

this level and here are the

1:01:23

parameters, then you only get so

1:01:25

many of them. And so, yeah,

1:01:28

the points put up on your

1:01:30

deck, you gotta figure out what

1:01:32

to do now. I do want

1:01:34

to be clear. Cards on the

1:01:36

game changer list could be banned.

1:01:38

They could be banned. It's not

1:01:40

a, like, don't worry, here's sanctuary

1:01:42

for all these cards. But it

1:01:44

is not, if it is on

1:01:46

the game changer list, it. is

1:01:49

for sure going to be banned

1:01:51

or if it's not on the

1:01:53

game changer list there's no chance

1:01:55

it will get yeah but I

1:01:57

could see like I could see

1:01:59

a card that's like on the

1:02:01

game changer list and then it

1:02:03

turns out that like literally every

1:02:05

single three tier three deck is

1:02:07

or bracket three is running that

1:02:10

card yeah then it's like okay

1:02:12

let's identify why this is the

1:02:14

case yeah right or you know

1:02:16

I can go in that realm

1:02:18

I mean they're gonna have to

1:02:20

play this fun bouncing game where

1:02:22

because it's kind of so, there's

1:02:24

so many cars, you got such

1:02:26

a massive card pool and stuff,

1:02:28

you know, you run the risk

1:02:31

of the list. just getting like

1:02:33

way too long, or a little

1:02:35

bit too complicated and stuff, which

1:02:37

I imagine is something that you've

1:02:39

had to balance in Canlander quite

1:02:41

a bit. Yeah, complexity creep is

1:02:43

already a pretty big issue that

1:02:45

I mean, for all the faults

1:02:47

that I will talk about, the

1:02:49

prescriptive deck building, prescriptive deck building

1:02:52

does help with complexity creep. for

1:02:54

like, what it takes to actually

1:02:56

get a commander deck built in

1:02:58

front of you with people that

1:03:00

have similar intentions or the same

1:03:02

bracket. Band as commander gets brought

1:03:04

up a bunch. I think that's

1:03:06

mostly disingenuous crap. When people are

1:03:08

like, you know, it's two like,

1:03:10

if this is the thing that's

1:03:12

okay, how is this not okay?

1:03:15

And it's because I've got opinions

1:03:17

about companion. Oh, companion. Yeah, that's

1:03:19

an off. Mike conversation but no

1:03:21

like I will say it's kind

1:03:23

of interesting because it's like obviously

1:03:25

with canlander in the points because

1:03:27

this is it's it's very clearly

1:03:29

they've got similarities these two but

1:03:31

it's like with canlander you're looking

1:03:33

at a more infranchised player base

1:03:36

and stuff like if you're playing

1:03:38

can ladder there's a good chance

1:03:40

that you you more or less

1:03:42

have to be you know yeah

1:03:44

and you know magic yes to

1:03:46

an extent right and it's like

1:03:48

commander is tough right because commander

1:03:50

for a lot of people is

1:03:52

like almost this on boarding into

1:03:54

magic thing it's how of whether

1:03:57

or not it's a healthy thing

1:03:59

yeah it is a good like

1:04:01

it's a onboarding through the people

1:04:03

use and then it's you know

1:04:05

should it be standard should it

1:04:07

be draft yeah you know probably

1:04:09

probably but you know but but

1:04:11

once you start adding this a

1:04:13

prohibitive cardless that these new people

1:04:15

have you might have to direct

1:04:18

them to or whatever I can

1:04:20

see that being a difficult thing

1:04:22

but like again that's also it's

1:04:24

worth pointing out that this isn't

1:04:26

this Like set in stone thing

1:04:28

right? Yeah, if you're playing with

1:04:30

your friends and you're running four

1:04:32

game changers in your in what

1:04:34

you have described as a or

1:04:36

what you think is a tier

1:04:39

three deck or whatever, I don't

1:04:41

think anyone's gonna scream at you.

1:04:43

Yeah, right? Like it's not, it's

1:04:45

not the law. There's a big

1:04:47

difference in terms of the complexity,

1:04:49

especially for onboarding new players when

1:04:51

it comes to having two separate

1:04:53

band lists and one band list

1:04:55

is just like, well, but I

1:04:57

saw that in a game, it's

1:05:00

like, no, it was in their

1:05:02

deck, not their commander. And having

1:05:04

these cards where it's like, like,

1:05:06

like, We all got phones. Graham

1:05:08

and James are on their phones

1:05:10

right now. If Nelson was here,

1:05:12

he'd be playing arena during the

1:05:14

podcast. Like, nobody is safe. No,

1:05:16

no. Surge is probably opening the

1:05:18

wrong cards and Pokemon Pocket as

1:05:21

we speak. But like, everybody's got,

1:05:23

like, it sounds like a bit

1:05:25

of a handwave kind of thing,

1:05:27

but like, we all got phones.

1:05:29

We can, Magic players, you need

1:05:31

to be at least somewhat, you

1:05:33

know, You don't need to be

1:05:35

smart, but you need to be

1:05:37

not a complete idiot to play.

1:05:39

Well, actually. And here, on the

1:05:41

chance on the chance you think

1:05:44

that Ben and I have been

1:05:46

two slanders, we'll give you one.

1:05:48

Ben was late for this recording

1:05:50

and... and I spilled Graham's coffee

1:05:52

just before we went out of

1:05:54

it. The transit system here is

1:05:56

so bad I have like... So

1:05:58

there, everyone got shot today. It

1:06:00

is so bad I have renewed

1:06:02

my license in one of the

1:06:05

most walkable cities in the world.

1:06:07

Yeah. There's brackets. I mean it's

1:06:09

funny because like you don't think

1:06:11

it's a it's beta it's still

1:06:13

very beta this is still this

1:06:15

could all still be changed and

1:06:17

tweaked and everything I think it's

1:06:19

a great start yeah it's like

1:06:21

but like also like you and

1:06:23

your play group you don't have

1:06:26

to use these no Graham is

1:06:28

right, if your playgroup is full

1:06:30

of Sigma, Skibity, Rizz, Ohio players,

1:06:32

such as myself, then like, you

1:06:34

don't have to, you can ignore

1:06:36

that. You can ignore the beta.

1:06:38

Yeah. Sorry, you were making a

1:06:40

point? You were closing the episode?

1:06:42

What was going on, dude? I

1:06:44

think near draft match or what

1:06:47

I was talking to James. Please

1:06:49

get these idiots off mic. Cut

1:06:51

their mics. If I'm holding it

1:06:53

sideways then I'm then. like play

1:06:55

arena like actually like reoriented to

1:06:57

vertical which it's not designed to

1:06:59

do and it's not supposed to

1:07:01

do this was clearly a glitch

1:07:03

it looked horrendous but it like

1:07:05

worked like it functioned but it

1:07:08

was not like playable yeah turn

1:07:10

you're trying to get it back

1:07:12

here And you're like, trying to

1:07:14

invoke the gyroscopes. Yeah, cool. What

1:07:16

do you think about brackets? Let

1:07:18

us know in the comments, like

1:07:20

and subscribe and all that stuff.

1:07:22

Hey, type, type, concede is brought

1:07:24

to you by our friends at

1:07:26

Card Kingdom, check out, cardkingham.com, slash,

1:07:29

L-R, and also it is brought

1:07:31

to you by you. And your

1:07:33

support of our patron at patron,

1:07:35

patron.com, slash, loading, or by becoming

1:07:37

a member on this YouTube channel.

1:07:39

And shoutos to members at the

1:07:41

end of the end of the

1:07:43

end of the end of the

1:07:45

end of the episode. Check us

1:07:47

out at Magic on Chicago. Wait.

1:07:49

Hang on. Yes. This episode. Yes.

1:07:52

Yeah. Check us out this weekend

1:07:54

at Magic on Chicago if you're

1:07:56

going to be there and also

1:07:58

this Friday. premiering on

1:08:00

this channel channel. Friday

1:08:02

night's so excited! Very that

1:08:04

that. Until then, I have been joined by

1:08:06

Ben and Wheeler. James has been on tech. Other been

1:08:08

on tech online. these online you you

1:08:10

all so much for watching I

1:08:12

will talk to you next time to

1:08:14

you next time.