0:00

Welcome to the AI chat

0:02

podcast. Today on the show, we

0:04

have the man, the myth and

0:06

the legend, Jack Selby. He is

0:08

an American entrepreneur, venture capitalist, film

0:10

producer. He had an early role

0:12

as the senior vice president at

0:14

PayPal where he oversaw international and

0:16

corporate operations. After PayPal was acquired

0:18

by eBay in 2022, he co -founded

0:20

Clarion Capital Management. And he did

0:22

that with Peter Thiel, another in

0:24

the industry. He is currently serving

0:26

as the managing director at Thiel

0:28

Capital. beyond that,

0:30

he has a bunch of cool stuff. He's

0:32

done with different films he's worked on and he

0:34

is currently the founder and managing partner of

0:36

AZVC, which is Arizona's largest venture capital firm. So

0:38

welcome to the podcast today, Jack. Thanks, Thanks

0:40

Jim. So super stoked to have you. I've been

0:43

talking to people that keep telling me probably

0:45

for the last year that I got get you

0:47

on the show. So I'm excited to have

0:49

you on. I think

0:51

a lot of people know, you know, you

0:53

and the people around you, the different projects you

0:55

guys have been working on, the OG PayPal

0:57

mafia, some of the some of the things that

0:59

are happening. Something I'm super curious, I'd love

1:01

to ask you about is. what like in

1:03

the beginning got you into. the

1:06

tech space got you into the venture capital space.

1:08

Was this something like you, you kind of

1:10

always studied technology, you were interested in this? Was

1:12

it a friend that brought you in? Like

1:14

what brought you into PayPal, for example? Yeah,

1:17

it's a great question. I think for

1:19

me, I just kind of stumbled into it.

1:21

So met Peter through a common friend

1:23

back in, gosh. Kind

1:25

of mid 2000, excuse me,

1:27

1998. And and

1:29

so this common friend put us

1:31

in touch and at the time

1:33

Peter had this concept. that he

1:36

was tinkering with, which in effect

1:38

was the predecessor to the predecessor

1:40

of what would evolve into PayPal.

1:42

And I was enrolled actually to

1:44

go to business school at UCLA

1:46

that coming fall. And

1:49

I'll never forget, you know, paid my

1:51

nonrefundable deposit and they sent me this

1:53

box of really dull MBA books that

1:55

were required reading prior to. showing

1:57

up on campus and I was was really

1:59

second guest. in decision. And Peter said, listen, said, you

2:01

why don't you come out and maybe

2:03

try to help us get this

2:05

company off the ground. off the ended up

2:07

ended up being, it was in play it was in play

2:09

like that. And it was very serendipitous because

2:12

my younger brother was very since we

2:14

grew up here my younger brother who was

2:16

just starting to play Phoenix at Stanford.

2:18

Okay. And so. play was a

2:20

lot easier for me to it was a

2:23

his games if I'm living in

2:25

Palo Alto games if I'm living in Palo Alto than not. Perfect.

2:27

you're way too young to know

2:29

this, but these were like the these were

2:31

days of the go, boom, days of the.com boom,

2:33

You know, a lot easier to watch

2:35

my games. easier you know, watch my honestly, most

2:37

importantly, when I met Peter, I realized

2:39

I'd met just an out of this

2:42

world, really, really, really intelligent guy. in out

2:44

of this world, You know, I kind

2:46

of vow to hold on for dear life

2:48

guy. fast forward I kind of years later, I'm

2:50

still holding on by strength. and fast Okay, so

2:52

this is something interesting though, because. still I

2:54

think a lot of people Okay. especially when

2:56

you've paid a non paid a deposit

2:58

or whatever, like. deposit or because you like, into it

3:00

like a situation, I think that there's a more

3:02

that goes on behind the scenes with that situation. more

3:05

a lot of people could have the in your

3:07

same situation, just been like, oh, look, I paid

3:09

it, I'm gonna go to school, like I can't,

3:11

you know, take the opportunity, been in What was it

3:13

that... you feel like you identified I was

3:15

like, I'm this project is gonna work. This guy is

3:17

legit, know, he's not full of hot air. Like,

3:19

what were the things that you, you kind of

3:21

looked out for and saw? that was like, oh,

3:23

the concept itself, is

3:26

I admittedly, was was a bit

3:28

dubious, the first the first concept

3:30

for what was called Confinity

3:32

was essentially establishing. an offshore online

3:34

bank that's bank from any sort of kind of

3:36

free from any sort of sovereign

3:38

oversight. So it's very similar to the

3:40

the crypto world the crypto world has now

3:42

filled years later. And years later. we as a team in

3:44

And so I think we as a

3:47

team in those very early days, we

3:49

were that we were potentially biting off

3:51

something much more than we could probably

3:53

chew. then we pivoted to to... a company

3:55

that basically a version of of pre-paypal that that essentially

3:57

was enabling people to be money between

3:59

palm piles. And so, and that idea is probably

4:01

as dumb as it sounds, and we quickly

4:03

realized that there were just a very limited

4:06

number of Palm Pilots in the world, you

4:08

know, something like 400,000. But we had our

4:10

first kind of really big breakthrough Eureka moment

4:12

when we realized, you know, if you and

4:14

I were going out to lunch and I

4:16

went to pay you back for the lunch

4:18

that you kindly bought me. but you forgot

4:20

your palm pilot. What I would do is

4:23

I'd write in jaded net Gmail or whatever

4:25

it is. And then when you took the

4:27

palm pilot back to your desktop and put

4:29

it in the cradle to sink, the payment

4:31

would be generated by email and not by

4:33

the infrared beam between the palm pilots. And

4:35

we realize, well, there are billions and billions

4:37

of billions of billions of email addresses and

4:39

there's a very limited subset of actual physical

4:42

palm pilots. And so that was kind of

4:44

the first big. break that we have. But

4:46

going back to your question, I mean, I,

4:48

you know, so the concept itself was fungible.

4:50

We finally stumbled upon a version of PayPal

4:52

that obviously ended up being quite successful. But

4:54

I think with most startups, it's just the

4:56

people involved. I mean, it's the jocke, not

4:59

the horse. And, you know, I met Peter

5:01

when I was 24, ended up meeting Elon

5:03

when I was 25. I mean, the probability

5:05

of meeting two such incredibly iconic. that's super

5:07

cool yeah I mean but I think still

5:09

at the same time there could be a

5:11

lot of people that theoretically have bumped into

5:13

like a lot of legends and and maybe

5:16

didn't grasp on the opportunity so I mean

5:18

to your to your credit taking taking that

5:20

opportunity is I think one of the one

5:22

of the biggest things and kind of taking

5:24

that bet on yourself did you have anyone

5:26

like I don't know like your parents or

5:28

anything that were like oh you're crazy for

5:30

like you know dropping the deposit or whatever

5:32

yeah I mean it's It's interesting because you

5:35

think back about that fork in the road

5:37

and we all have these different kind of

5:39

points in your life and it definitely would

5:41

have been the safer move, you know, to

5:43

go get a NBA from UCLA. But if

5:45

you think about it, I would have graduated,

5:47

I would have come out of school in

5:49

2001, which was a horrible job market because

5:52

the economy was in the tank. And so

5:54

I would have graduated with undoubtedly a very

5:56

significant amount of student debt. I would have

5:58

been coming into the job. market with just

6:00

really really difficult job

6:02

prospects, guess. And so again, I just I met

6:04

a so guy I just, I met a

6:06

really smart guy that he Peter and then the

6:08

other guys that he had assembled in

6:11

those early days were just rock really And

6:13

so I just felt really privileged to be

6:15

part of the group is history. of the

6:17

rest amazing. history. to amazing. Okay, I'm gonna jump

6:19

back and forth into a bunch of

6:21

different things that you've done. done. So hopefully the timeline

6:23

not too all over the place. the place. I

6:26

feel I feel like, especially at a young

6:28

age, you meet some legends, they're building really

6:30

impressive teams, right? I think teams is

6:32

kind of what makes these projects ultimately successful.

6:34

of what makes are some principles you feel

6:36

like from your career, maybe from them, from

6:38

other people, whatever, throughout your career, you what are

6:40

some? from your career, you've taken to

6:42

building successful teams today. your know

6:45

maybe doing some amazing things with

6:47

your you're doing some amazing things

6:49

with you've like you have a

6:51

whole bunch of projects, you're running different firms and

6:53

stuff. teams today? do you do today that maybe you learned

6:55

from the past about building those teams around? Cause

6:57

obviously you're not the guy that has to do

6:59

everything, you need to build a solid team. the

7:01

guy that has I think one of my

7:03

most valuable takeaways a from the PayPal

7:05

experience, I learned this from Peter, takeaways that

7:08

Peter hired. a lot

7:10

of just exceptional people. Peter, is that know, my hired

7:12

a lot of just a book, people. You know, the

7:14

title of the book will be the dumbest

7:16

guy in the room. know, the And then

7:18

the byline will be, will is getting in

7:20

the room. But I literally and the byline so

7:22

fortunate to be around so many really smart

7:24

people. in the room. But I think I think, one

7:26

of the things that Peter did in additional a

7:28

great a manager is that he was very

7:30

good at delegating. at And so I ran

7:32

the corporate and the international operations. And

7:34

by corporate operations, basically that was a euphemism

7:36

for the a euphemism for the fundraising. basically carved that

7:38

off his plate. that off you know, as

7:40

a startup person, know as full -time job. outrageously

7:42

full -time job. It's outrageously important. And

7:45

if you screw it up, it's an

7:47

existential threat to your existence. an existential threat to

7:49

you a great very, very infrequently, does a

7:51

world -class CEO also have the ability to

7:53

wear equally as well the hat that

7:55

is a very good fundraiser, just for

7:57

whatever it's worth. And so I think, and

7:59

so I think Peter realized that by putting off his

8:01

plate as much as possible to me was a

8:03

great way to kind of delegate and kind of

8:06

multiply his time. So this is my answer to

8:08

your question is that how do you figure out

8:10

how to multiply your time? Because time is our

8:12

most valuable resource, nothing profound, but it's true. Yeah.

8:14

And so I see it with my various activities

8:16

today. So, you know, we run the largest venture

8:18

capital fund here in Arizona. So how am I

8:21

able to do that with all the different things

8:23

I have? I have literally my best friend, Jason

8:25

Prussman, helps me run this fund. Like he's a

8:27

Sandhill Road legendary VC guy who was probably going

8:29

to retire, managed to convince him not to retire

8:31

and help me on this fund. Hold them back

8:34

in. Yeah, and then he's helped build out this

8:36

amazing team. I mean, my joke is that, you

8:38

know, semi-joke is that, you know, I put my

8:40

own money in the fund, I don't take a

8:42

salary, and the good news, quote unquote, with that

8:44

is that we get to have a much larger

8:47

team that we would otherwise. Like, how I was

8:49

paying myself, you know, half a million bucks a

8:51

year, the team would be a lot smaller. But

8:53

because we didn't structure it that way. Jason is

8:55

able to build out this team that I'm still

8:57

obviously very much a part of, but it's a

9:00

multiplier of my time. Now a similar thing, you

9:02

know, you mentioned film, like I, we had this,

9:04

you know, relatively small independent film production company called

9:06

High frequency entertainment. And I've known these, my two

9:08

business partners literally since grade school. Uh-huh. And so

9:10

we just wrapped a film last week in Charlotte

9:13

and my two guys were literally alternating on set

9:15

back and forth, back and forth for the better

9:17

half of the entire six week shoot. You know,

9:19

and I showed up a couple times just kind

9:21

of check in and, you know, see how things

9:23

were going, but they're, if you can find people

9:25

that you trust implicitly that are super competent, hold

9:28

on to those people for dear life because that

9:30

will enable you to multiply your time. I love

9:32

that. That is, so that is such a profound,

9:34

profound take. When it comes to, when it comes

9:36

to multiplying your time and when it comes to

9:38

doing these other projects, I guess what other advice

9:41

would you give people? It may be in the

9:43

nitty gritty beyond like delegation, like what are the,

9:45

what are the types of things I know before

9:47

the show you're talking about

9:49

how you fly a

9:51

lot and you you of

9:54

like work in transit

9:56

like what are some of

9:58

the things that you

10:00

do to multiply time I

10:02

think for a lot

10:04

of the founders investors listening

10:07

this is Yeah. I

10:09

I myself on an airplane

10:11

probably not every other

10:13

day but probably pretty close

10:15

and and it's probably

10:17

just a function of my upbringing. My

10:19

dad was a mad man era advertiser.

10:21

Okay. so the reason why that's relevant

10:23

to your your is that the way

10:25

that job worked is you'd either get

10:27

fired or promoted every couple of years.

10:29

Okay. So dad got a little bit

10:31

of both. and we seven different times

10:33

during my childhood. And so it was

10:35

almost like this Iterant, uh, army brat,

10:37

I upbringing. So I was just used

10:39

to not being in one place for

10:41

a prolonged period of time, which you

10:43

know, meet people that grew up in

10:45

some little town. in Kansas, their entire life And

10:47

you know that's where they they continue to rest of life

10:50

and that's great that's a model for some people that works

10:52

but for me I was just

10:54

used to kind of being on the go and on

10:56

the road, so to speak. So, know,

10:58

from managing the international stuff at PayPal, I was on

11:00

a plane all the time. We had offices all over the

11:02

world. To fast forward today,

11:04

Um, I been very fortunate to have a

11:06

network of business relationships, personal relationships that

11:08

are kind of all over the world. And

11:10

I cherish that and coming back to

11:12

your question in terms of how to uh,

11:14

of most efficiently use your time. know,

11:16

if I'm on a 17 hour flight from LA

11:18

to Dubai, that's like a study hall. I

11:20

mean, I literally get to do a ton of

11:22

work. catch up on reading

11:25

a couple of books, maybe read a script, maybe watch

11:27

one of our films, take a nap. um,

11:29

rinse wash repeat and do it all over

11:31

again Um, 17 hour flight affords that

11:33

so you know and they're worse things than

11:35

flying on Emirates So it's not that's

11:37

true. Emirates great airline Um, okay. so talk

11:39

to me about the film side of

11:41

this and and I think this kind of

11:43

goes to like a broader like question

11:46

or concept of having like a lot of

11:48

different interests. I mean, I think we

11:50

see like a lot of um, we

11:52

see a lot of really great minds that

11:54

that do tend to get like pulled into

11:56

a lot of different interests. mean you think of

11:58

Elon with like seven different. companies that are all are

12:00

all over the place there's place. know There's a lot of

12:02

players kind of do this thing you see it with

12:04

there's a lot you're looking at a lot of different things this

12:07

thing. You see it you think for example you're

12:09

venture fund of you know working with you

12:11

on his fund and then doing like like

12:13

like having like fund know you that are kind

12:15

of in different Peter Thiel you feel like

12:17

that's like a distraction or do you think

12:19

that like enhances like I them together? Do

12:21

you know what I mean? things that are people

12:23

say in should I just focus on one

12:25

thing you is just that's like a thing. Yeah,

12:28

I mean, what's I mean, what's the expression too many trades or

12:30

or akin to to that? pun so no pun intended.

12:32

wary of am very wary of being spread too

12:34

thin. And I do feel at times, you know,

12:36

I'm also a lot of plates, and but. about

12:38

it, you know, also try to step back and think

12:40

about it, And so sure I am not being

12:42

spread too thin. And so with respect to the

12:44

up activity. as a huge film buff. I I really stumbled into

12:46

didn't grow up stumbledbled into it. I a huge film

12:48

buff. I kind of stumbled into it. went

12:50

to a small liberal arts college in kind of

12:52

York. into it. ended up overlapping with a

12:54

guy who ended up, you know, becoming a becoming

12:56

a true legend in the film business. He started legendary

12:59

pictures. So he was the one that kind

13:01

of got me he was the one business and then I

13:03

reconnected. to the business. these two guys that

13:05

I literally grew up with guys that I

13:07

I've known grew since grade school. And I've known

13:09

literally since way I think about it

13:11

is, way I you know, about it like any

13:13

kind of art, not to be corny

13:15

about it, but it is art. to

13:17

like about it, a very different muscle in

13:20

your brain. a very different. the tech stuff, the the

13:22

finance stuff, that's great. great. It It pays all

13:24

the bills and then some. But the film But the

13:26

film stuff is literally a a different muscle

13:28

in your brain that I find that helps

13:30

give me balance by just giving me a by

13:32

just giving me a completely to pursue set to different

13:34

types of people to pursue. You know,

13:36

you're interacting with directors and actors. And of people

13:38

are very different people from startup folks

13:40

or hedge fund folks, which is, you know,

13:42

more of kind of my, my, my

13:44

day job world. So that, that balance that

13:47

it helps or hedge fund I don't know, at

13:49

least for me, I find it to

13:51

be, uh, enjoyable. world. That's cool. And I'm

13:53

sure it, it you know, spurs a lot

13:55

of creativity, which, like you said, is a

13:57

muscle. So when you're looking at investing, investing,

13:59

oftentimes, the most creative thinker comes up with some

14:01

solutions that no one else has thought of

14:03

before you know. Well it's that so it's

14:05

funny you say that because this is exactly

14:07

how I describe the job of a venture

14:10

capitalist and I think it's a bit of

14:12

a non-traditional answer because I haven't really heard

14:14

anyone else say this and again it's I

14:16

don't think it's profound I don't think it's

14:18

profound but I do think it's true I

14:20

think when you're a VC I think you're

14:23

basically your job is your talent scout somewhere

14:25

in between. I don't know, but if you

14:27

do it long enough, you kind of get

14:29

this innate gut sense or skill to be

14:31

able to identify is Jane legit or not.

14:33

And so in Hollywood circles, you certainly had

14:36

to deal with that all day long because

14:38

you can bump into someone off the street

14:40

who claims to be a producer. And again,

14:42

you have no idea which end of that

14:44

spectrum that person may be. And then as

14:46

VC, what you're literally doing is you're trying

14:49

to identify who is, you know, the rock

14:51

star. entrepreneur jocking out the horse that wants

14:53

to run through brick walls and you can't

14:55

that's on a formula you can't learn that

14:57

at Stanford or UCLA business school that's something

14:59

you just have to kind of learn through

15:02

repetition of meeting a lot of young entrepreneurs

15:04

in terms of who seems they may who

15:06

seems like they may be real and who

15:08

seems maybe not. Interesting yeah that's such an

15:10

interesting concept that it plays on it plays

15:12

on venture capital plays on film I mean

15:14

it's any industry But the more that you're

15:17

exercising that muscle, like you mentioned, like the

15:19

better you're getting. So if you're doing it

15:21

here, it's going to help you on the

15:23

other side. It transfers back and forth between

15:25

the two different industries. That's really interesting. I

15:27

want to get into some of the film

15:30

stuff you're doing, because that's so fascinating. But

15:32

one thing that I think a lot of

15:34

people. wonder about you. And maybe it was

15:36

even like controversial at the time or something.

15:38

You're like, oh no, what is this? No,

15:40

it's the fact that you're in Arizona and

15:43

not in California or something. I remember, I

15:45

think I've seen some articles of, you know,

15:47

Jack Selby moves from California to Arizona and

15:49

he's gonna do this thing. You're from here

15:51

originally, correct? Well, it depends on how you

15:53

define that question. But my dad moved us

15:56

here as a family in the middle of

15:58

my senior year of high school. But my

16:00

dad moved down but my dad moved down

16:02

here to take a job. so my dad

16:04

still lives here in Greater Phoenix. younger younger brother,

16:06

like I mentioned, ostensibly grew up here. up here. And so

16:08

when And so when we sold I knew I I

16:10

knew I wanted to get out of the tax

16:12

tax regime of California. Okay. so I looked at so

16:14

I looked at all the normal places Incline Village

16:16

the north side of Lake Tahoe and other places

16:19

that a lot of the a lot of the tech.

16:21

expect flea to but because I had but because I had

16:23

family here and of a lot of time

16:25

here was an easy choice an easy choice top then on

16:27

top of it, you know, I still go

16:29

back and forth to California all the time

16:31

like back for for Peter's Christmas this past Saturday. So

16:33

so matters I mean, I can literally I can literally

16:35

a plane a plane a be in be in 45

16:37

in 45 minutes Or if I need to

16:39

go to the Area it's an hour 20 minutes yep

16:41

and so the proximity makes a big difference.

16:43

So I've been in Arizona since 2002 a

16:45

a full -time resident Okay, that's yeah, that's amazing.

16:47

So I guess a lot of it was

16:49

it of the tax idea of the tax idea I mean I

16:51

I you I'm a big a big fan of

16:54

it ask ask us all the time,

16:56

because I'm doing a a tech startup and they they're like

16:58

headquartered in like headquartered in like you don't think

17:00

you should move to you I literally

17:02

had you should I talked to I literally VCs like,

17:04

I talked to know, it's just like, if

17:06

you're not in like, they know, Palo Alto,

17:08

know like we just don't really look

17:10

at companies that are not in come on,

17:12

like not in you know, the numbers are

17:15

awesome. But not think, like you're I'm curious

17:17

if if you get that same thing because

17:19

I know VC and very similar. like you have

17:21

to get money from other places. Do

17:23

people ever have that Do people ever of the

17:25

attitude towards you when you were raising for

17:27

AZ VC or anything? when you were raising for

17:29

talk for hours on this

17:31

topic. I mean I try to talk

17:33

for hours on this topic. I'll and concise.

17:35

and concise. Listen, I I think the

17:37

Arizona tech literally has all of the

17:39

ingredients to be a proper place. place be

17:41

on the same footing, if not better,

17:43

than what goes on at Salt Lake in

17:45

Denver or Austin or or these other places any

17:47

other I think I think, you know, we should be

17:49

at that echelon if not higher. You know, one of the

17:51

things know, I one of the things that I

17:54

think has arguably held us back the most though, is

17:56

that we just have never been kind of been

17:58

kind of a first tier capital.

18:00

markets city. So for example, like if you

18:02

are an IPO road show, you know, you

18:04

probably wouldn't go through Phoenix. You'd go through,

18:06

you know, cities that are far smaller, like

18:08

Wichita or Minneapolis or Baltimore. And it's just

18:10

not one of our strengths. And it's no

18:13

offense to Arizona. It's just the reality of

18:15

who we have historically been. So how do

18:17

you solve for that? And so as it

18:19

relates to, you know, our topic and kind

18:21

of tech and venture capital. You know my

18:23

joke with my local friends here is that

18:25

if we're we've all been sitting around and

18:28

we think that you know benchmark or sequoi

18:30

or founders fund is magically just one day

18:32

going to parachute into Phoenix and set up

18:34

an office it's probably not going to happen

18:36

or at the very least it's going to

18:38

be a long wait and so you know

18:40

I just turned 50 this past year venture

18:42

capital is definitely a younger person's game and

18:45

so I had to just honestly ask myself

18:47

like if I don't do this soon then

18:49

I'm probably going to age out of potentially

18:51

going to age out of potentially doing this

18:53

I don't think I'm the perfect person to

18:55

have set up AZVC, I'm probably not the

18:57

least perfect, somewhere in between, but someone had

19:00

to go out and raise a proper fund

19:02

that's based here, that invests here, and we

19:04

did it. And so I'm really happy about

19:06

it. You know, we raised the fund almost

19:08

exclusively from local prospective Arizona investors. Really? Yeah,

19:10

so I mean, we have, I think almost

19:12

70 individual LPs in the fund. in the

19:14

vast, vast majority are based here in Maricopa

19:17

County. And almost 30 of them have raised

19:19

their hand to join our limited partner advisory

19:21

board, meaning that they want to be mentors

19:23

or board members or in somehow or another

19:25

give back to the local entrepreneurs that we're

19:27

backing. So that's great. Because, you know, conversely,

19:29

I could have gone out and talked to

19:32

prospective LPs and Abu Dhabi or Tokyo or

19:34

any of these other far-flung places because. You

19:36

know, the benefit of with my Peter affiliation

19:38

is that we know most of these people.

19:40

And, you know, they'd love to get in

19:42

the next founders fund or whatever the case

19:44

may be. And so, not only would that

19:46

obviously be disingenuous, but, you know, I wanted

19:49

to find investors that really cared about Arizona.

19:51

And, you know, the fundraising process as these

19:53

things always are, I mean, it was an

19:55

argument. road but we got through we

19:57

got through it from start

19:59

to finish it know from

20:01

start to finish it

20:04

was probably you define when it Depending on

20:06

how you define when it started, but it

20:08

was 12 to 18 months you know but it's I'm really

20:10

to end where we are and know, probably really happy with

20:12

where we are and we'll probably be done deploying

20:14

the capital at some point by the end of next

20:16

year. And then for for will be off

20:18

to the races for so fingers crossed. Okay well I so to crossed. Very

20:20

cool. about that well, I wanna talk to you about that, but

20:22

one thing that I wanted to bring up that I

20:24

think is really cool that you guys have done, like you

20:26

mentioned. done. You have connections with Peter and a

20:28

lot of these other guys. guys, so could raise

20:30

a fund from a lot of other places. that

20:32

you love that you raise it from Arizona What

20:35

I I think a a lot of people, I

20:37

guess, think about the fact that it's just the fact

20:39

that it's that know, people that care about

20:41

Arizona and people that are listening, right? You could

20:43

apply this whatever your local market is. But

20:45

what's cool is if Arizona people are people in

20:47

this, when distributions come out after the fund

20:49

is successful, it's people in Arizona that are

20:51

gonna benefit and they're gonna reinvest in the

20:53

ecosystem. So it's, you know, when you have

20:55

a couple of these home -run companies have a

20:58

really do some big multiples. It's

21:00

local Arizona people that are then it's

21:02

local Arizona put back into

21:04

it benefit and put back of it out the funds and

21:06

this is, I mean, you out. Yeah, hit

21:08

the nail. mean, you perfectly on the

21:10

head perfectly on what had happened historically happened

21:12

to us setting up this fund

21:15

is that this fund you got a you got

21:17

a series a. check or series B B check from

21:19

some out -of -town source you end up you

21:21

end up being successful, then those

21:23

financial proceeds would then get recycled into

21:25

the local ecosystem from where the check

21:27

was originally written so felt like like Denver's Handel

21:30

Road and so so we out out on

21:32

that flywheel here. And so what we

21:34

need to happen is we need

21:36

to have a couple more carbonas and go daddies and

21:38

lifelocks have success. and then have then have those

21:40

financial proceeds be enjoyed by a fund

21:42

like ours and just that are local back just

21:45

push those chips back in. And that's

21:47

the snowball effect that we had have

21:49

not had enough of. we're But I'm there.

21:51

we're gonna get there. There's no magic

21:53

wand to accelerate that. But that's kind

21:55

of the driving ethos of what we're

21:57

trying to do with this fund. this love

21:59

that. that. And another thing I wanted to

22:01

just touch on that you mentioned about aging

22:03

out of venture capital and that not

22:05

a lot of people think about again is

22:08

when you make these investments, they're like

22:10

five, 10, 15 years sometimes before money comes

22:12

back in from an exit event or

22:14

something from a company, right? It was like

22:16

10 years. So you raise the fund,

22:18

you deploy the capital and from the end

22:20

of the last capital, you kind of

22:22

have a cutoff. So I think that's cool

22:25

that you got started when you did

22:27

and you kind of started deploying when you

22:29

did. Now, I guess my question is

22:31

when you think about vintage two of AZVC,

22:33

which I'm sure there's a lot of

22:35

people kind of like super interested in or

22:37

whatever. What, I

22:40

mean, I know you can't probably go too

22:42

into details on what that looks like and it's

22:44

a little ways away, but like what does

22:47

that look like as far as what you do

22:49

different, what you do the same? Is it

22:51

just a bigger fund? it gonna deploy different? Like

22:53

what is it, what would a second vintage

22:55

look like compared to the first? Yeah, I mean,

22:57

I should just claim that we're still in

22:59

the very early innings of trying to figure out

23:01

answers to this type of question, but I'll

23:03

give you kind of how we're thinking about it

23:05

now. So last fund was 110, 115 million. Naturally

23:08

you wanna have a step up in

23:10

your asset size with the next fund.

23:13

So I would guess maybe shake out between

23:15

150 and 200 if we're so lucky

23:17

to get across the finish line. And I

23:19

think the other area that will probably

23:21

change a bit is that we'll definitely still

23:23

be Arizona headquartered and centric just like

23:25

we are now, but I think we may

23:28

broaden the aperture a little bit geographically

23:30

to look at more opportunities that are in

23:32

places like Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas,

23:34

Nevada and so forth. I stole a

23:36

kind of a moniker from another fund that

23:38

we're very friendly with, but the rodeo

23:40

states, because I think a lot of these

23:42

places also kind of like Arizona have

23:45

just been capital markets laggard. And so how

23:47

can we help match the capital with

23:49

the amount of activity that's going on from

23:51

an entrepreneurial perspective perspective. So I think

23:53

that's something that we can do in terms

23:55

of kind of stepping up, but Arizona

23:57

will always be home, it'll always be

23:59

in the bank. focus it is now with AZVC,

24:02

but it'll but just be just be kind of

24:04

a bigger, bolder version, potentially with vintage vintage too.

24:06

Cool, that's super exciting. exciting. What are some of

24:08

the, I and I guess one other question

24:10

on that, would you still? you still primarily

24:12

target Arizona investors or LPs

24:14

on that? Or would you broaden

24:16

the aperture on that as

24:18

well? We'll probably broaden it a

24:21

bit We're just because I've met

24:23

a lot of institutional family friends,

24:25

both here and abroad abroad that. I I

24:27

mean, essentially what what we're play is, we're an arbitrage. We're a

24:29

non -coastal arbitrage. I mean, mean, if I had to

24:31

summarize my business model in one or two sentences two

24:33

that I get to write. that I get to term sheets

24:35

at non -coastal prices prices with amazing young entrepreneurs

24:37

here locally we have we have in Arizona. to coach

24:39

I get to coach them up, hopefully, I and

24:41

then I get to the arbitrage is to

24:43

go take them to all of the friends

24:45

that I probably know on Road of the equivalent. That's

24:48

it. And so so there's no reason why

24:50

that should just apply to Arizona. We can

24:52

can do that in Nevada and Colorado

24:54

and and other places. places. I think our

24:56

deal flow here is pretty good just

24:58

because it's still relatively nascent. So we

25:00

know relatively nascent. So we know most of the again, we

25:02

can still apply that to some of

25:04

these other adjacent that that are maybe

25:06

still suffering from somewhat of an from somewhat

25:08

with venture capital money. with venture

25:10

I think that's amazing.

25:12

That's I think that's amazing. you spend your spend

25:14

your summers, because is a very hot a

25:16

very hot place, I love love Arizona, my

25:18

wife, all her families from here,

25:20

that's where I ended up. I'm originally

25:22

from Vancouver up, Canada, from she

25:24

brought me down here. I love it.

25:27

so she brought me In the summer, I we

25:29

escape for a few we escape it's a

25:31

little toasty, but the winter a best place

25:33

in the world. but the You spend your

25:35

summers, I believe, you spend in your summers, I believe,

25:37

Yeah, in Wyoming, yeah. Would that be an area

25:39

that you'd be focused on? be focused on? Talk

25:41

a little a little bit about Wyoming and

25:44

and why? Yeah, Wyoming, yeah, I've I've been going up

25:46

to Wyoming for the summer for almost the

25:48

last decade. the last it up there.

25:50

That's my happy place. And it's kind

25:52

of a perfect fit place. And it starts to

25:54

warm up here, a finally starts to because when

25:56

it up. Or to it finally starts to

25:58

really warm up here, things hospitable. up and up

26:00

and up and take the swap. Yeah, exactly.

26:03

So it's kind of a perfect calendar overlap.

26:05

But yeah, well, I mean, it'd be a

26:07

great example where, you know, it's a small

26:09

state by population in the United States. But

26:12

there's some real activity going on there. And

26:14

actually, a good friend and I, we started

26:16

a tech event 11 years ago with the

26:18

governor at the time and, you know, literally

26:21

had Peter out as our keynote this past

26:23

year in October, which was really fun. the

26:25

nonprofit in Vision A-Z that we kicked off

26:28

here in Arizona seven years ago. So Wyoming

26:30

was literally the inspiration to kind of get

26:32

the Arizona activities off the ground and here

26:34

we are. Tell us a little bit about

26:37

what that nonprofit does. Yeah, so in Vision

26:39

A-Z, again, started with a good friend John

26:41

Reagan here, I think, yeah, literally seven or

26:43

eight years ago. The whole purpose was to

26:46

essentially elevate the local tech ecosystem here in

26:48

the state. Going back to the idea that

26:50

I think we have always had most, if

26:53

not all, the right ingredients to have that

26:55

proper ecosystem, but whatever reason they just weren't

26:57

coming together in the right way. And so

26:59

Envision owns a quarter of the carry that

27:02

will come out of AZVC. So if we

27:04

do well with our fund, which knockwood, hopefully

27:06

we will. That should be millions of not

27:08

tens of millions of dollars that will go

27:11

to this nonprofit envision AZ that will then,

27:13

you know, pump that money back in the

27:15

local ecosystem. So, it's again, it's part of

27:18

the whole idea that, you know, it takes

27:20

a village type of mentality. And so envision

27:22

I think is, hopefully can be the bedrock

27:24

for. ecosystem here for many many years going

27:27

forward, especially if we can endow it with

27:29

these proceeds coming out of the for-profit AZVC

27:31

fund. Very cool. Something that I feel like

27:33

I've noticed, just in talking with you and

27:36

kind of how you're setting everything up, obviously

27:38

your business guy, your capitalist, you're making money,

27:40

you're making this successful thing. It's cool to

27:43

see that it feels like a lot of

27:45

this is... You know like with the nonprofit

27:47

or other things like you see like an

27:49

ecosystem and you also want to kind of

27:52

help this area grow Like talk to me.

27:54

I guess what what's the split on that

27:56

for you on? I I guess,

27:59

purely venture capital, multiply

28:01

money versus I I guess, is

28:03

kind of This is kind of where you call home so you want

28:05

to make it a better place. place. Yeah, well, I mean, to we

28:07

mean to be absolutely clear. mean my

28:09

fiduciary responsibility to my limited partners is to

28:12

make money make money. Yeah. And so the North the

28:14

no matter no and so so that will be

28:16

our goal, be our goal, that will continue to

28:18

be our goal with future ventures going forward.

28:20

But at the same time, you know, know, it's, I

28:22

love Arizona, I love Arizona. It's been home, you know,

28:24

for two decades two decades so plus. It's

28:26

know, it's a funny state in the sense that,

28:28

you know, if I asked you to name

28:30

a a Fortune company that's in Arizona, you would not

28:32

be able to would there's not one. to because there's

28:34

not one. So there's a

28:37

lack corporate headquartered stewardship that stewardship And it goes

28:39

on here. And it cuts both

28:41

ways. know, the good news is if you really good

28:43

news is if you really want to search

28:45

yourself, a you can have a really big impact.

28:47

Like think about if we were in greater Philadelphia,

28:49

how many how many companies are based in greater

28:51

Philadelphia? in know, 10, 15, 20? Right. I don't know. So if

28:53

you if you wanted to search yourself in greater

28:55

Philadelphia, you would have to cut through, you

28:58

know, all the different government affairs you otherwise the

29:00

morass that those companies may bring to bear. the

29:02

Whereas here, if you really want to search yourself,

29:04

you can make a big difference. But the

29:06

converse of that is that if you don't raise

29:08

your hand and get involved, can make a nothing changes.

29:10

But the converse of I like that. And I think, But

29:13

know, you just have to raise your hand and to

29:15

search yourself. And if you want to do that here,

29:17

you can make a really big difference. And so I've

29:19

tried to embrace the fact that there is this dearth

29:21

of corporate of companies can mean, you think about our fund.

29:23

Our anchor investor is the publicly traded

29:26

utility company in Arizona, in Arizona, Pinnacle West.

29:28

Yeah. I mean, who would mean, who would

29:30

think that a publicly traded

29:32

utility company would be the anchor

29:34

investor in an early stage, an

29:36

admittedly relatively speculative venture capital

29:38

fund. It's not the most obvious

29:40

or natural fit, the most but obvious

29:42

or APS is immense, immense, immense

29:44

credit. immense credit, They made a bet on

29:46

us on us. Yeah. I think they want to help us. us.

29:48

you know, know the the tech ecosystem

29:50

here help diversify the economy economy. So

29:52

again, I wouldn't be in business with

29:55

with if it wasn't for for APS. Yeah, truly. Tell

29:57

me a little bit about about how

29:59

that that really got got started. obviously taking a big

30:01

taking a big bet on you. to I think

30:03

it's gonna be a phenomenal return for them.

30:05

they're going to be I'm sure they're gonna be thrilled.

30:07

get started in that? you like you started in that? Because

30:09

like you mentioned, that's not an obvious. Most

30:11

people probably don't think about that. I know it

30:14

I know really interesting process. interesting process. at the One

30:16

of my partners at the fund, Jessica

30:18

Pacheco, had been for many, many, many years. So APS

30:20

for many, many years. that So it was

30:22

really genius that her genius that helped us

30:24

get across the finish line. finish line. Jeff Goldner, who's

30:26

CEO at APS, has become a has become a

30:28

great, great, great friend. so we

30:30

had, you know, numerous conversations over an

30:32

extended period of time, of but time, but

30:34

and Jessica were really just instrumental

30:36

in helping us get across the finish

30:38

line. across the finish line. did it it.

30:40

again, without that $25 million

30:42

anchor check from APS, ASEVC would would

30:45

have definitely never come into

30:47

existence. existence. amazing. That's so cool. so So So to

30:49

your credit, and I also think to

30:51

your point we were talking about earlier about

30:53

team. about team. I I think it just goes

30:55

to show how important that team is.

30:57

Jessica, I've met her before at some events.

30:59

at some Absolutely phenomenal. She's amazing. She's amazing. But you know

31:01

what I mean? know what I mean, it's like building that. of

31:03

that team of these really solid people mentioned,

31:05

you mentioned wasn't it wasn't for that investor wouldn't

31:07

wouldn't exist If it wasn't for Jessica she

31:10

put forward a huge effort with the, you know

31:12

know I mean So it's true. all about building that

31:14

team which I think is really important I

31:16

think is Jessica was so instrumental and Jessica know

31:18

in helping us get off the ground you

31:20

one of our partners to this day the

31:22

she's you know on the board of regions

31:24

she's incredibly well connected here in the

31:26

local of community She's incredibly well feel so good about

31:28

the team that we built out and

31:30

I feel really comfortable about where we are

31:32

now and where we the it going

31:34

forward like we talked about I feel really

31:36

comfortable about where we me a little bit

31:38

about, so we have a lot of forward

31:40

of tech investors and entrepreneurs and to the

31:42

show. further. Tell me a little bit

31:44

about some of the competitive advantages you feel

31:46

like you have. like you have on companies here

31:49

in companies here in Arizona that you invest

31:51

in that you look at, what is what is the what's

31:53

the what's the big opportunity? the What's the secret

31:55

sauce? what What is kind of of Arizona have that

31:57

other places might not? might not so quality

31:59

of life high cost of living is low

32:01

proximity to California is obviously immediate. That's a

32:03

lot in and of itself. Yeah. We have

32:06

great universities here. ASU is amazing. DCU, U

32:08

of A, the list goes on and on.

32:10

What do we not have? And really it

32:13

goes back to what we talked about earlier

32:15

is just we have not had our own

32:17

kind of larger venture capital source of funding.

32:19

And that was in my opinion. That was

32:22

that was holding it back. you know the

32:24

local entrepreneurs you know to I think their

32:26

credit they were saying listen you know if

32:29

we just had the capital we could change

32:31

the trajectory of where this ecosystem goes and

32:33

just make it that much more steep and

32:35

upward pointing so now that we have that

32:38

capital I feel great about the deal flow

32:40

that we see here the vast majority of

32:42

the investments that we've made are Arizona based

32:45

companies and you know we're kind of the

32:47

only game in town so it's a really

32:49

because normally a VC has two jobs they

32:51

have to source deals and compete with deals.

32:54

All we really have to do is source

32:56

deals. And so we get to write again

32:58

term sheets that are at non-coastal, silly palato

33:00

evaluations. And if the entrepreneur doesn't like the

33:03

term sheet, that's absolutely their prerogative. They can

33:05

go fly to Sandhill Road and get a

33:07

term sheet from Sequoia. And if they succeed,

33:10

then God bless them. God bless them. I

33:12

love that. Okay. Tell me a little bit

33:14

about. So, the podcast is about. You know,

33:16

we talk a lot about what's emerging in

33:19

tech and things that are happening in tech.

33:21

Obviously, a big theme and element that we've

33:23

seen in the last couple years has been

33:26

AI and kind of some of the plays

33:28

there. Based off of, I guess, some of

33:30

the investments you guys are making and the

33:32

deals that you're looking at, what are some

33:35

of the areas in AI that you're most

33:37

excited about are kind of most interested in

33:39

blowing past the hype that obviously is there,

33:42

you know, plenty of it in the market?

33:44

Sure. So I think private private AI investing

33:46

is almost non-investable. So I think it's better

33:48

to just go buy stock in Google or

33:51

Microsoft, Al-A-Baba, the equivalent. probability of

33:53

you finding the next

33:55

early the next early stage anthropic

33:57

especially coming from Phoenix from

34:00

Phoenix, is zero? So to put

34:02

it it is the next

34:04

anthropic or open AI

34:07

going to come out

34:09

of or open AI going to come

34:11

out of it's not. No, it's And with

34:13

emphasis, it's something to be

34:15

ashamed of. to be ashamed of. I think

34:17

to put a positive spin on it is that on it

34:19

is that I'm surprised by how

34:21

ubiquitous. the AI ingredient has

34:23

already become the the recipes for almost

34:25

every startup that we look at.

34:27

at. Now, if AI is a if AI is

34:29

a missing ingredient in a recipe,

34:31

that's not disqualifying, but the much

34:34

is on us to very much

34:36

understand why. recipe. it's not an ingredient the the

34:38

recipe because one of the worst case scenarios is

34:40

that you make an investment that a startup that

34:42

doesn't have the in the recipe then two then two years

34:44

down the road, a competitor comes along and figures

34:46

out a way out a way to bring that into the

34:48

recipe, the that's a problem. And And that's somewhat of of

34:50

an unforgivable sin for me and my job a a

34:53

fiduciary perspective. you know, the AI world in my

34:55

So I think is a bifurcated world in my

34:57

opinion is a bifurcated world. So you so

34:59

you have kind of the AI traded companies,

35:01

So you have the big publicly the

35:03

companies. and so You have you basically have everyone so

35:05

forth. is it bifurcated? And I else. the main why

35:07

is it is that it And I think the main reason

35:09

it is about get talked about at least enough is

35:11

that is that. There a dearth, there's there's

35:14

a scarcity of world AI researchers,

35:16

computer computer scientists, So as engineers. if you

35:18

exclude an American, if you exclude China,

35:20

that number is probably, how you I don't

35:22

know, depends on how you it, define it,

35:24

but it's probably in the low low thousands.

35:26

Yeah. So, and yeah. are more of those people that live more

35:28

of those people that live in Palo

35:30

Alto than live in the state of Arizona,

35:32

probably by of of multitude. And there's nothing

35:34

wrong with that. So just to be clear,

35:36

be but these people, because they're so scarce,

35:38

they're really, really expensive. And so And so

35:40

my startups in Arizona cannot afford these people,

35:42

even if they did live here, who can

35:45

afford them? them, Google can afford them, them,

35:47

Microsoft can afford them, them, can afford them, afford

35:49

can afford them. can afford them, the the startup in

35:51

a non -coastal ecosystem is not gonna be able

35:53

to afford them. So, but it's good it's good in

35:55

the sense that they will move the needle

35:57

for all of us us terms of what

35:59

they develop. develop. Yeah. And then those ingredients will become

36:01

more so in the recipes that we make here

36:03

in Arizona and other places. So that's the positive

36:05

spin on it. No, I love that. And I

36:08

mean, I think it's definitely like an issue that

36:10

relates to Arizona. But I also think it's an

36:12

issue that relates to Arizona. But I also think

36:14

it's an issue that relates to almost all local

36:17

geographies that are not perhaps California. Right. to use

36:19

car marketplace. That's great. It's a very very valuable

36:21

company that earning and the guys have built. So

36:23

let's build more carbonas and not try to pretend

36:25

like we're going to build the next anthropic, which

36:28

we absolutely are not going to build. Yeah, it's

36:30

definitely, I do like what you said though about

36:32

making sure we're focusing on. having AI or anything

36:34

really that automates the process, you know, it's orders

36:36

of magnitude more efficient, cheaper, faster, better, whatever those

36:39

ingredients are in any industry. And I think you

36:41

do need to look at AI for like what

36:43

the big players are building implemented into your company

36:45

that you have. That's right. Yeah, that's really interesting.

36:47

What are some of the most interesting areas that

36:50

you, AZVC, is currently kind of... looking at investing

36:52

in. I mean, you have the thesis of like

36:54

undervalued Arizona companies. Are there any areas in particular

36:56

that you're excited about that you're interested in? You

36:58

know, I think the ecosystem here is still sufficiently

37:01

nascent that because I get asked the question, you

37:03

know, what sectors, you know, do you all have

37:05

a lot of exposure to? And the honest answer

37:07

is, you know, we're sector agnostic and the spread

37:10

among the various sectors where we have exposure is

37:12

quite broad. And that's not surprising. because I honestly

37:14

expected that. And so I think when the desk

37:16

settles and we fully deployed fund one, we can

37:18

look back Monday morning quarterback and say, oh, we

37:21

had five companies in sector A and four companies

37:23

in sector B and so forth. But we don't

37:25

have that benefit right now. And so, you know,

37:27

again, it's kind of a cop out of an

37:29

answer, but I think it's the honest truth is

37:32

that I'm just looking for Rock Star Entreprene Entreprene

37:34

Entreprene. And so, and I want and

37:36

I want them to be

37:38

able to work their

37:40

tails off and run through

37:43

brick walls run if I

37:45

can wrap my little And

37:47

brain around whatever they're

37:49

doing, then we'll take a

37:52

look And I'm not

37:54

dogmatic that it needs to

37:56

be in doing, then we'll take a

37:58

knows maybe when we

38:00

have fun to up and

38:03

ready or are getting

38:05

ready to launch we can

38:07

say yeah This is A,

38:09

are areas that I

38:11

think Arizona has a real

38:14

Maybe when we have in the

38:16

meantime up we're still sufficiently

38:18

nascent We're just trying to

38:20

be as generalist as

38:22

we possibly can this is, these are

38:25

are some, if you can't talk about

38:27

them, what are some? strength. investments

38:29

and some entrepreneurs that you have met in

38:31

the ecosystem here that you're particularly excited about

38:34

that are crushing it or that are doing

38:36

well. about that are of course I

38:38

love all of my children equally. So of

38:40

course I love all of my children all amazing children. all

38:42

amazing don't wanna select one or another

38:44

as being the special boy or girl

38:46

of the bunch. the special boy or girl That

38:48

being said, I have one CEO one CEO

38:50

who is is just a stud. Like

38:52

I love investing or finding entrepreneurs that

38:54

are. that are former college athletes, as an

38:57

an example, and especially That played a played

38:59

a sport that was not particularly revenue

39:01

oriented So no offense to football and basketball,

39:03

but basically anything other than those

39:05

two sports. than those two one of our So

39:07

played played high level Division one polo at a California school

39:10

And so And so doing he's in the

39:12

pool every morning while he was in

39:14

college, you know in the pool for three

39:16

or four hours every day. He's He's

39:18

not doing it cause he wants

39:20

to data cheerleader a cheerleader or you know get an

39:22

LII, NAL, NAL, you know, stipend or whatever it's called. He's or

39:24

whatever it's called. because he wants because he

39:27

wants to be competitive, he's competitive core. And the

39:29

core my so at you know, and

39:31

my brother wrestled at Stanford. And so, you

39:33

know, I'd hire every Stanford wrestler I could find.

39:35

that, means the you know, the kid's probably pretty

39:37

smart. And it also means that the kid probably

39:39

has an amazing, just relentless work ethic. are the types

39:41

of folks are the types of folks I've been

39:43

looking for. been we've been fortunate to find a

39:45

handful. If I did If I did have to at one

39:47

company, again, love all our children. But but of

39:49

the companies that I like to, you know, to,

39:51

you know, often acknowledge is a a company called Blue

39:54

Tale here, which is in the aviation tech space, if

39:56

space, if that's even a thing. essentially

39:58

do, they do, I could literally explain it

40:00

to you as if you were second grader,

40:02

but they take private aviation maintenance records, which

40:04

have traditionally been handled by paper and pencil.

40:07

They digitize them and they put them in

40:09

the cloud. Okay. That's it. Simple. And these

40:11

two guys that found the company are the

40:13

proper adults, they're a little bit older than

40:15

me, they worked for Steve Jobs at Apple

40:18

back in the day in Santa Clara. So

40:20

they're proper people, they've been in Arizona now

40:22

for a while. And they have this company

40:24

that is just crushing it. And they want

40:26

to have one big outcome for themselves before

40:29

they retire and sale off from the sunset.

40:31

And yeah, and this this concept, which is

40:33

so basic that I literally just explained to

40:35

you in two sentences or less, this is

40:37

not going to be something that the Stanford

40:39

GSP kid is going to be falling over

40:42

himself trying to find on Sandhill Road. This

40:44

is the polar opposite AI type of duur

40:46

type company, which as far as I'm concerned

40:48

is perfect. That's super, that's super, super, super,

40:50

super cool. you know as we're wrapping up

40:53

the podcast today last thing I'd love to

40:55

ask you about is as you know people

40:57

that are listening perhaps interested in investing at

40:59

or in looking at companies out there what

41:01

are some things that you think are important

41:04

you mentioned just the jockey finding entrepreneurs in

41:06

solid what are what are I think what

41:08

do you think the the key things to

41:10

kind of determine because you're kind of looking

41:12

at a glass ball. Some would say like

41:15

you kind of have to make some predictions.

41:17

What are the key things you're looking at

41:19

to predict success in a company? So I'll

41:21

come back to the college athlete example. So

41:23

I have a, I wouldn't, I don't know

41:26

if I'd say a strong, but I have

41:28

an aversion towards first time entrepreneurs. Not that,

41:30

you know, everyone has to start somewhere. Totally,

41:32

yeah. But when you back a first-down entrepreneur,

41:34

you just don't know what you're getting when

41:36

the bulls start to fly. Because some people,

41:39

when the bulls start to fly, panic and

41:41

walk off the battlefield with the white flag

41:43

held high. And you just can't have that

41:45

as a VC back in a young entrepreneur.

41:47

So what can you do to try to

41:50

identify as a proxy for someone who doesn't

41:52

have a track? recognized as

41:54

an entrepreneur that could

41:56

be a proxy for

41:58

what that metal may

42:01

be. that's why, why, know,

42:03

the example of a,

42:05

you know, know, Division One collegiate

42:07

water player player, that guy, you know, you

42:09

know, I've been playing water water his life his

42:11

he wants to win. he so if you're a

42:13

first if you're a first in an don't have a track

42:15

record. What can you put forth to your

42:18

forth investor that will show that you do have

42:20

the you do that you do have the intestinal

42:22

fortitude to be a rock star entrepreneur, given

42:24

that you don't have a track record and

42:26

think that through and if you can come

42:28

up with an answer an make your pitch

42:30

that much more compelling. that much more love it. I

42:32

love it thank you so much for coming

42:34

on the show. on the show your your has been

42:36

awesome, hearing from you. really excited to

42:38

hear about vintage too and it comes when coming out. out

42:40

we'll get you back on the show to

42:42

talk about exciting stuff when it comes

42:45

out. And also it comes out and also. Big Big

42:47

congratulations on the on film, film, up filming on

42:49

it. on it. A bunch of A bunch of other ones

42:51

have been getting some great feedback, so so it's

42:53

exciting stuff. to see where those to see where those

42:55

for But thanks so much for coming on

42:57

the show today. you Thank you for having me.

42:59

me. And to the listener, thanks so much

43:02

for tuning into the podcast into the If you're

43:04

interested, I'll leave a link in the description

43:06

to Jack. Make sure to go follow him

43:08

on LinkedIn. He some absolutely amazing stuff and

43:10

follow him for quite a while. following for quite a while.

43:12

Yeah, thanks so much for tuning the show. Make sure to

43:14

leave us a review of us a of your podcast all have a great rest

43:16

of your day. of your day.