0:00

so that are we going to talk with each other today or

0:02

you know or is it i so player he turned into

0:04

an iso player who's like the carmelo anthony of this

0:06

the carmelo anthony of the all and put

0:09

you on a festival or you want to

0:11

what a blanket up there in re mad we

0:14

should have should have on having a dialogue with each other today

0:16

several appointment thing as opposed to all standing

0:19

up thing rpm and off actually we lost

0:21

a little bit of the fiber of this team here are the three

0:23

people playing as a team and then there's the i would

0:25

love to ask you questions and i would love to

0:27

have any place the ball j cal your the guard

0:30

you pass the ball i'm supposed to score oh

0:32

really know what a shock

0:34

used to say when he wasn't getting the ball

0:36

he gets very unhappy said possible of the big dog

0:38

will score

0:39

the i should add sure you know you're not so

0:41

be who is over the city low light

0:44

on your , mention

0:47

the big dog gets the ball know of any problems

0:49

bob cousy okay some during his pain

0:51

during his

1:02

wheels of source

1:09

hey everybody welcome to the all in

1:11

podcast were three best

1:14

these talk about a range of talk about topics

1:16

and one monologues about biden

1:18

derangement syndrome with you again this

1:21

week this it off and on a science and

1:23

the dictator from dictator family holiday

1:25

family didn't read by employing

1:27

iso ball somewhere in between

1:30

these are your political commentator

1:32

to leave your user age matched

1:35

, she says it's an hour

1:37

hour , when status

1:40

is gonna lose his mind ovaries got to

1:42

monologues prepared by

1:45

an emergency alert or separate accounts

1:48

linked

1:49

rather than an added up on

1:51

monday for don't mope an emergency

1:54

law that requires financial institutions in

1:56

canada to examine customer

1:58

records and take action against people in

2:00

the web or aiding in the protest

2:02

peers are to those tweet from yesterday

2:04

if you're watching on the video streams

2:06

illegal blockades and occupations

2:08

are not peaceful protests they are a threat

2:11

to jobs and communities and they cannot continue

2:13

in the house of commons are today i joined members of parliament

2:15

speak about that and

2:17

about the need

2:19

to invoke be emergencies at

2:21

the counter signal which is a right leaning canadian

2:23

does your publication reported that thirty four different

2:26

crypto wallets also being

2:28

targeted by canadian officials the

2:31

law grants the government extraordinary

2:34

powers like the right to bad public

2:36

assembly insert locations the canadian

2:38

civil liberties association said a plan to challenge the government's

2:40

decision teens for

2:43

remember that road apiece

2:45

and financial the apply swarming for barrio

2:48

weiss is common sense about a year ago

2:50

the piece was about the private sector financial

2:52

platforms d platforming folks are

2:55

so your thoughts sacks you have

2:57

ninety seconds on the uninterrupted the

3:00

on the chicago area thank you jake oh yeah that's true

3:02

or last summer i wrote a piece for

3:04

a very wise as a sub stack

3:07

talking about how financial the plot for me

3:09

the next wave online censorship and

3:11

here we are it's actually happened what

3:14

i could not as predicted is a would occur

3:16

in our mild mannered neighbor

3:19

to the north and that the reprisals

3:21

would be directed by the government

3:23

itself not just a a consortium

3:25

of a private actors the white

3:28

trudeau has done is he didn't just

3:30

employ the emergency act against the

3:33

trucker so that he could basically

3:35

arrest them and break up the protests they

3:37

have now directed banks

3:39

the and any plans to some even crypto

3:41

currency wallets to freeze

3:44

the accounts not to the truckers but

3:46

anybody who's contributor to them basically

3:48

any wants to trade for a by dollars or more that

3:51

there were two a crowdfunding site to pay raise

3:53

money from all those people the thousand

3:55

would keep of just ordinary canadians

3:57

who did nothing more than contribute

4:00

the an anti government protests they

4:02

are now at risk of financial ruin

4:04

because the bank accounts been frozen the

4:06

you after wonder what what is the

4:09

answer that justifies the means read

4:12

your omakase is on the wane it's on

4:14

it's way out at the same time that trudeau

4:16

was announcing these dictatorial measures

4:19

the for does note the guy

4:21

runs on ontario the largest

4:23

province's thirteen seconds before

4:26

was out there saying that he was gonna have a that

4:28

to the mandates we're going be over why

4:31

exactly are they doing this were

4:33

you know where the end of covered and

4:35

i'm sad to me ask you questions go first

4:39

there were people online making donations

4:41

to the criminals who loot the

4:43

kill people in san francisco which he

4:46

railed against the criminals you're

4:48

breaking the law and should all be put behind bars

4:50

you think that it would be appropriate in that context

4:52

for the government the block their donations

4:55

to supporting criminal activity and a criminal

4:57

rain you know that i think

4:59

we all agree you know if

5:01

should should be transpiring the

5:03

didn't know the or the implication there's a truckers

5:06

are using violence or or

5:08

something like that and they're not a me it's been

5:10

it's been largely peaceful protest it's been

5:12

very annoying to people whose money

5:14

you know it's funny that isn't the case he made the they're

5:16

actually breaking the law by blocking streets

5:19

and that's not you know there's a peaceful protest we don't

5:21

get a permit next we go in a public snowed

5:23

and peacefully protest within within the

5:26

confines of along with allowed in that jurisdiction

5:28

worked for with would he puts are doing a civil

5:30

disobedience which is not a peaceful

5:32

protest it is you know kind of breaking the law

5:35

to make a point and is peaceful because

5:37

there's been no violence if you look at axel but it's

5:40

mostly , bridge in law right foot let me

5:42

let me ask the question for free bird bent sex

5:45

yeah the group of truckers

5:48

were shutting down the bay bridge with

5:50

three lanes of traffic and then shut down

5:53

the to eighty and the one or one and it

5:55

impacted as you say in fact are shutting

5:57

down rosetta from an illusion

6:00

businesses that are immersed and or how to get

6:02

through would you want them to be towed

6:04

would you want their cars to be towed listen here

6:06

here's the thing the ambassador bridge the

6:08

this vital choke point of commerce between

6:11

the us and canada that was blocked and that

6:13

was creating a serious problem but it had already been

6:15

cleared on monday by

6:17

the time that trudeau in both the emergencies act

6:19

and then on tuesday he then invokes

6:22

the original a your opinion sacks if they if

6:24

they block roads and bridges

6:26

would you if everyone has

6:29

their breaking their law in that way to know is one

6:31

lane it's all freelance amateur society

6:33

understood understand that the the standard here

6:35

because

6:36

the dooming out the last year and the year before

6:39

right there was a protest happening with the alam

6:42

the blm protest resulted in

6:44

damage to private property

6:46

that burning cars there

6:49

were protests that the capital that

6:51

involve folks trespassing is a federal

6:53

land or and federal building now

6:56

there's protests that are are

6:58

you know blocking vital a trade routes

7:00

and you know access the emergency vehicles

7:02

and all that sorta stuff to me also

7:05

you know people in san francisco breaking the law nothing

7:07

put in jail my personal opinion

7:09

is any one is forcing the law we should stop and

7:11

for breaking the law and anyone that wants

7:13

to kind of you know follow peaceful protesters

7:15

or make appointed gonna make a point but

7:18

if the law's the law synergy universal standard

7:20

to hold up a loss and it's the case and editor

7:22

cases people are giving money to aid

7:25

in breaking the law shouldn't we stop the

7:27

for once you know christmas not eligible for

7:30

the whole as it was i think you're completing

7:32

a bunch of really important things there

7:35

aiding and abetting criminals it

7:37

is already illegal there are ricoh statute

7:40

that some allow the authorities

7:42

to go after people that are aiding and abetting

7:46

the monetary support criminal

7:48

behavior

7:50

that really there's a whole body of lot

7:52

the federal state local level

7:54

that allow you to deal with protests okay

7:57

the real question is why did

7:59

you to go and invoke emergency powers

8:02

at the tail end of a pandemic what

8:04

is effectively nonviolent

8:07

protest against that's the key question

8:10

right so just to give you some canadian history

8:12

that has a canadian citizen what i could tell

8:15

you is a we didn't vote this emergency

8:17

powers act three times in the past the

8:20

first was for all more to the

8:22

second sorry for her one the second

8:24

was for world war two in the third was the assault

8:27

you crisis which was a domestic terrorist organization

8:29

in quebec that was fighting for

8:31

a separate homeless that's not

8:33

the three other times in the past that a sitting

8:35

prime minister has invoked the broad

8:38

sweeping emergency power they

8:40

did it because you exhaust the natural

8:43

body of law in the constitution and the bills

8:45

you know the charter of rights that governs the

8:48

normal behavior a democratic society what

8:51

was it not any of those things i don't think

8:53

anybody could claim that a bunch of nonviolent

8:56

protest yes they were annoying yes

8:58

they basically you know stop some commerce

9:01

i don't think it was on the order of world war one

9:03

world war two or a domestic terrorism

9:05

issue like the s r que crisis the

9:07

why invoke it basically

9:09

get as a feel free card where you can behave

9:12

without any checks and balances that confounding

9:14

on a second didn't we exhaust

9:17

the current body of normal governing

9:20

law if we didn't

9:22

why is this example okay the

9:25

counterfactual are so many

9:27

imagine trump invoke the same during blm

9:31

imagine the i did this right now right you

9:34

would be up in arms as as

9:36

well sudden results which their feet they emerged

9:38

that trudeau invoked requires

9:41

something like an active espionage

9:43

against the country or serious

9:46

the word serious violence or in the law

9:48

or the threat of serious violence those

9:50

conditions were simply not met then

9:53

on top of that to go after

9:56

people who contributors was twenty five dollars

9:58

to these truckers who are time support

10:00

them because these guys are not making any money you

10:03

know there could be a very military and are

10:05

very harsh conditions do you make a small

10:07

child he was a small donation to

10:09

support these people to aid them the simple

10:11

working class people

10:13

who are protesting for normalcy

10:15

and and get their freedom back and now all of a sudden your

10:17

bank account gets frozen it is basically

10:20

creating say is

10:22

is is gonna have a chilling effect because

10:24

essentially create cost of untouchables

10:26

because no one's gonna want to associate with transact

10:29

with or donate to this

10:31

group of people these designated people

10:33

now underly mercies

10:35

do your because we have frozen if you do

10:38

yoga and think it's going to have the opposite effect i think

10:40

this blog and trudeau space this is the

10:42

worst decision making by any major

10:44

political leader in a long time to

10:46

go after a group of people as smart sat in

10:48

the in the waning days of a pandemic

10:50

what is the point why are we picking

10:52

this weiss he picking there was a guy on

10:55

so what makes no sense for was he doing

10:57

it as to mop why why did

10:59

the police not for it's so i totally hear your

11:01

point why did the police not for of

11:03

these protests wanted to the bono

11:05

saturday yeah i'm going to

11:07

happen i think that the police in

11:09

some cases did

11:11

in some cases didn't they were probably

11:13

a lot of police sympathizers they're probably

11:15

a lot of sympathizers in general as

11:17

there were a lot of people who are detractors are

11:20

getting the police have been using our policemen

11:22

were complicit the nature of a protest

11:24

and then you have people for young people against

11:27

the point is i think what's really clear

11:29

is justin trudeau first

11:33

basically said these people are racists

11:36

and besides this then he says

11:38

they just hold views that are just unacceptable

11:40

to me then and like a totalitarian

11:42

dictator invoked an emergency

11:45

measures act that allows him to do what he wants

11:48

that's a factor he painted himself

11:50

into a political corner and and try

11:52

to get successfully he gave himself

11:54

absolute power for some period of time the

11:57

real question i think is why should this be

11:59

allowed to the a democratic country the

12:01

democratic norms against people

12:03

that haven't done as far as i can tell

12:06

the threat of violent behavior

12:08

it hasn't been my you got any to and we're

12:10

is clear that the body of

12:12

the normal governing law hasn't been exhausted

12:15

yet meeting

12:17

the minute that these people were asked

12:19

to actually mcb ambassador bridge

12:22

they did you guys were canadians that's all

12:24

we do yes is also for nine but if

12:26

he has his ass the front of your ordinary human sacrifice

12:29

know you're right for know never tried talking to their

12:31

money why would try that's why when

12:33

asked trying to go see a with them instead

12:35

he demonize or mile that bad as

12:37

white supremacists or nazis and

12:39

even your confederate sir

12:41

which attorney will understand him a contract to canada

12:44

this is yet another example of that

12:46

dying death right in front of

12:48

us

12:48

the world playbook right we talked

12:51

about this last week i think it's related

12:53

to the san francisco board of ed recall

12:55

but now and national and probably even international

12:57

news narrator while the

12:59

the the reaction to rogan

13:02

the reaction to dave chappelle it's

13:04

all part and parcel of the scene where people

13:06

up and down the spectrum the

13:08

learned what the mechanism of action

13:11

is of this castle culture and they

13:13

don't fall for it any more try an

13:15

ammo there's ammo person that see both that escalated

13:18

because he's actually in the seat of power and that's

13:20

what i think people should be debating you mean shutting

13:22

down dissenting voices from a position of

13:24

power to speakers and see one never

13:26

really he went on the record any said

13:29

guys these views are unacceptable to me well

13:31

in a democratic society that is not hire years

13:34

yeah not your choice just and i mean you're not

13:36

going to be of use on all kinds of

13:38

topics all the time unacceptable

13:41

it's not the threshold of world war two world

13:43

war one in the us all to crisis you guys

13:45

think that there is a moment here that also

13:48

is a mile marker on the road towards

13:50

the state versus crypto given

13:53

the accent that were take hundred per cent coin

13:55

while it's because that seems to be like a big trend

13:57

it's going to play out over the next decade or two

13:59

there the ninety habitable crypto is

14:01

the threat to the state right and so you

14:04

know you're going to see services like this

14:06

that kind of you know hate while

14:08

it's that donate or illegal and you

14:10

know freebie this is one of the best point

14:12

humid

14:13

if you look at what they've done to bitcoin and

14:15

you look at what it's done from the cryptocurrency this

14:17

will do more than mcdonalds accepting bitcoin

14:20

because this is the first time like a western

14:22

democratic state is seizing people's funds

14:24

like in an incredibly unfair unnecessary

14:27

way which is just going to have more

14:29

people say you know what maybe i should keep some of my net worth

14:31

out of the government's purview

14:33

of they're going to see that anyway and then are people going

14:35

to start looking into the coins that allow

14:38

people to conflate having

14:40

his enemy with having a different

14:42

view

14:43

one hundred hours the same thing having an enemy

14:45

is a serious deal right what

14:47

is that domestic or international

14:50

that's what we are to do in world war one

14:52

world war two in the fall to crisis this is just

14:54

somebody was a different opinion i don't agree

14:56

math mandate is what one person says i

14:59

want a mask mandate is what the other person says

15:02

the idea that you can be platform one or

15:04

the other or fire them from their job

15:06

or prevent them from having access to the money

15:08

that they earn or preventing other people

15:10

from donating money really

15:13

i'm it's a really low bar and i think

15:15

when you normalize is kind of behavior it's

15:18

a very slippery slope and so if if

15:20

somebody else were to do it they now have

15:22

like it's again going back to his fans during

15:25

your sort of philosophical discussion from

15:27

last week the thing about

15:30

you know about the stoning ritual right that sacks

15:32

talked about the we talked about

15:34

last week one of the things that really your talks about

15:36

his you always

15:42

the first person that throws

15:44

the sound right that's how jesus with able to defuse

15:46

that add that incident as described in the

15:48

book of john's but in a different examples

15:51

the first person that throws a stone all of

15:53

a sudden normalized to sit for everybody else

15:55

after them in that be stony become commonplace

15:57

er became commonplace the the

16:00

effect if you're getting democratic person

16:02

who just decides this doesn't work for you you

16:05

can flip the script and

16:07

and basically remove everybody's

16:09

democratic rights that's really

16:12

really that you had a closing point ones

16:14

well okay to solve this point about bitcoin that

16:17

the reason why bitcoin is necessary

16:19

as because the tactics or trudeau is using is

16:21

essentially a star of these truckers out

16:24

the normally the easily arrest

16:26

them and but these also taking away

16:28

their insurance licenses you basically

16:30

preventing them from ever working again he's talked

16:32

about that where to put your criminal records from make

16:35

it hard to to get a job and most importantly

16:37

on top of that these preventing anyone

16:39

from helping them by contributing to them by

16:41

making a donation series of a

16:43

saucy starving these guys out and

16:46

that's the reason why bitcoins complete helpful

16:48

is allows people using non custodial

16:51

laws to make an end run around

16:53

and donate and help these these

16:55

people who are being persecuted essentially

16:57

i mean he could have just simply

17:00

chosen to do what sachs is favored president

17:02

obama did with occupy wall street would

17:04

you say

17:05

great you have something you want to voice here's where

17:07

you can do it

17:09

you know no guns no violence but we let

17:11

how long did occupy wallstreet

17:13

last in downtown wall street and

17:15

in oakland in other places like a year or two

17:17

then you just wait them out of than and that's it i think

17:19

when you encounter as sincere protest movement

17:22

the first the you should do as leaders actually listen

17:24

and try to understand what is that they're protesting

17:26

on behalf of and trudeau never do that

17:29

he went straight to up to eleven with us

17:31

and i think part of the reason why america you ask

17:33

what why why is it that that

17:36

you know with the is or seems to be a comment

17:38

on mater with this and with ukraine

17:40

issue that the leaders are amelie escalating

17:43

these situations of looking for ways to

17:45

the escalated and they're doing it with

17:47

the media again them on and so

17:50

as as horses trios rhetoric has been

17:52

the media's rhetoric around this has been even

17:54

worse you have this cnn contributor

17:56

juliet korea is also harvard professor

18:00

basically tweeted that trudeau

18:03

scotch needed for slashed the tires

18:05

empty the gas tanks arrest to drivers

18:07

you know mickey unclear how you never get the trucks

18:10

off the bridge or because she said cancel

18:12

their insurance spend the driver's license for

18:14

you but any future regulatory verification

18:17

she says trust me i will not rather ways

18:19

to make this hurts you know is

18:21

you out of the media sharing this

18:23

on egging on trudeau you're

18:26

doing the same thing being the drums of war in

18:28

ukraine what is wrong with these

18:30

people

18:31

the escalate and where's the off ramp or

18:33

the biggest the biggest story is this

18:36

the bitcoin thing because you

18:38

know you guys think about like three

18:40

nineteen sixties like capital

18:43

wasn't digitized it was like physical like

18:45

your own like a stock certificate

18:47

or cas or gold for bearer

18:49

bonds

18:51

today everything is the july for i like was

18:53

a dismal record of you know who owns what stockton

18:56

who how much as in your bank account and none

18:58

of it is tied to your having a physical assets

19:01

and or ultimately the law was

19:03

able to reach into the digital systems and

19:05

have greater the

19:07

oversize and ultimately control

19:10

you know over accounts and so on and it's had a

19:12

you know the digitization of of capital asset

19:14

has had an incredible the ability to drive

19:16

economic growth and investment and either transaction

19:19

but it's also significantly increase the centralization

19:23

of asset of or the central influence

19:25

over assets

19:26

bitcoin seems to be the resolutions to that

19:28

and now you're seeing the ultimate

19:31

challenge the bitcoin and the challenge

19:33

to decentralized system like bitcoin and

19:35

crypto currencies and so on i don't wanna see the

19:37

get agree to any one

19:39

there seems to be like this trend line over the last

19:41

sixty years that now being salads because

19:44

you can have your accounts frozen any moment

19:46

i'm you know for breaking the law or because

19:49

emergency actor are induced

19:51

and i think you're right a probably going to accelerate interest

19:53

in the kind of

19:54

the government chain if

19:57

creates a lot remember to anyone

20:00

nobody can do and they're doing it in china right

20:02

and their eyes out of the general

20:04

one is the point of individual you on is like

20:06

this incredible pointers it's like absolute

20:09

centralization of every capital asset here's

20:11

where it is nearing a think about dangerous the

20:13

digital he won his the minute you say something that

20:15

zz thing doesn't like it's it's it's a stroke

20:18

of a keyboard keys and all your assets

20:20

are all your assets are locked away this is a

20:22

database century and you just basically reroute

20:24

who belong who lost for and he could be

20:26

it could happen in america it's a not california

20:28

now wants have a wealth tax

20:30

anybody who's got money i would just going to take your

20:32

money as you guys we automatically think

20:34

we sound like a right wing politics show at this

20:36

point this isn't a

20:38

right wing politics thing i mean does i think i think that

20:40

we have so jumped the shark there are things that are happening

20:43

today everyday

20:45

that you know if you had said in isolation two

20:47

or three years ago with any of these things ever happen

20:49

we all would have just looked at each other and said it's

20:51

impossible that these things could happen in but

20:54

the problem is for two years

20:56

of a pandemic any we have

20:58

led a lot of our civil liberties decay

21:00

right under our nose we're not

21:02

willing to fight for it because it's become to

21:04

tribal at the end rights have been

21:07

politicized so the idea of having rights

21:09

you know and and like for your rights

21:12

all of a sudden has to be a decision between whether

21:14

you're left or right

21:15

that's crazy i don't think that liberties

21:17

in a sense of government oversight have

21:19

decayed as as in addition

21:22

to that liberty

21:24

than the sense of of a social setting have

21:26

the kid you know we because of cancel

21:28

culture of we've normalized the ability

21:31

violence minority or dissenting voices

21:34

and it is both in the private enterprise setting as

21:36

well as in the public setting then

21:39

it some you know i

21:41

don't know i i don't consider myself a right

21:43

wing conservative person by any stretch

21:46

but i do consider myself a person who believes

21:49

in individual freedom and liberty that called an

21:51

american by the way i see and is basically being

21:53

an american and i think

21:54

it's as we move on to this a recall

21:57

and services guiding that's really

21:59

good point

22:00

what are our political leaders doing here are they trying

22:02

to stir the pot and antagonize these situations

22:04

if you look

22:06

you know clinton obama a

22:08

lot of people previously were trying to defuse

22:10

the situation said and right and seems

22:12

to be stirring the pot

22:13

justin trudeau and then if you look at

22:15

trump would blm eat out or any immigration

22:17

stuff he never sat down and met with a many

22:20

in the arguably antagonize them so

22:22

i think there's a perfect segue into what happened

22:26

the uterus we didn't we should expect a little more from a political

22:29

leaders great points from sachs is part of

22:31

something incredible you know from from the own

22:33

against his blm folks that admit

22:35

i did he try to shut pink accounts and

22:37

take their money away not the trudeau said

22:39

veto i did this is not even

22:41

near in the scale of be alone the hotel

22:44

or authoritarian now i'm is clearly if you're objectively

22:46

it's for down the scissors subvert the scary authoritarianism

22:49

as we talked about in previous pods tends to come

22:51

from the law

22:53

that meet the right you see comments i

22:55

just want to risk it's veiled under moral virtue signaling

22:57

that rise of overseas ammonia

22:59

they claimed they claimed to be the defenders

23:01

of the working class while

23:04

they're actually prosecuting them

23:06

such an unforced error like

23:08

so damn he's gonna lose right track going to

23:10

lose if a d a was elected and

23:12

a police officer police chief or like at the san francisco

23:16

that said we're going to freeze the bank accounts

23:18

and

23:19

you know i'd die demobilize

23:22

the criminals that are ransacking our city

23:24

or or people story

23:26

would you support that

23:28

no not at certain aap

23:30

dot is an extra year so used to power

23:32

i'm in a law specifies what you're allowed to do

23:34

you been here for six years in an emergency situation

23:37

i mean would you support the mayor taking on emergency

23:40

authority to go and fix the problem which he defeated

23:42

by the way the tenderloin yeah but that doesn't

23:44

give her the power to go to

23:46

wells fargo and said a wells fargo

23:48

we want you to freeze all these accounts with no

23:50

due process of law

23:52

that's basically what trudeau he got not

23:55

be overreach that's the line you think is like go

23:57

and see you should have to go through a court proceedings

24:00

the police on a cat period

24:02

so research data the law

24:04

allows you to do this now it's called rita

24:07

so you follow the due process of

24:09

the law and you can do all those things

24:11

free bird that that that you just mentioned if

24:13

you want to freeze somebody's bank account right

24:15

that we do that the government has he been

24:17

would he do that they don't need to pass this

24:20

basically get out of feel free card to do

24:22

whatever you want without any oversight integer

24:25

much born earlier have you exhausted

24:27

the regular law here are three when i

24:29

was example the regular like haven't even tried

24:31

disputed by the center on five bucks

24:33

on he doesn't go away from your

24:36

and meanwhile they're all the provinces are encoded

24:38

mandates anyways this whole issue is moot

24:41

so dumb it's this is like the stupidest

24:43

behavior at the end of a pandemic than we've

24:45

ever seen yara to george lucas

24:47

were getting it right i mean if you look the

24:50

theme of star wars it was like oh i just eat emergency

24:52

powers for a minute because of a trade federation

24:55

blockade and here was a crisis

24:57

of faith crisis yet i wasn't yours will get

24:59

finally i mean that goes back to the rather

25:02

run and but and movement that right like

25:04

yeah that was like was mission of the empire

25:06

caesar got caesar got emergency authority mean

25:08

this mean this tried and true and the poll nicholas

25:10

or they're actually ryan the polls show that

25:13

the most of the public and canada's applauding

25:16

there was a large and democracy die so applause

25:19

that deadline that was bad may line

25:21

and in the service homes or right direction

25:23

while the prequels a three members of san

25:25

francisco's board of education where we were the worst

25:28

is to be quick the got and

25:30

not compared to the of the three is

25:32

huge dumps that disney talk on the

25:34

our childhoods with the sequels three

25:37

members of the san francisco board of education recall this

25:39

week massively

25:41

they lost by between seventy

25:43

two percent and seventy nine

25:46

percent these were the

25:48

virtue signaling maniacs who wanted to

25:50

change the names of all the schools wouldn't reopen

25:52

the schools yada yada and

25:54

this really frustrated and they

25:56

wanted to get rid of the lead a p

25:59

classes

26:00

all of this a decent they do they

26:02

did yeah i'm and

26:04

the free board members raza london

26:06

breed them as he suggests it has to

26:08

be clear in the middle of a pandemic i think my understanding

26:11

is that

26:12

instead of figuring out how to get these kids

26:14

back in class how to figure out how they

26:16

could take off their masks they

26:18

wanted to drop abraham lincoln in george

26:20

washington's name from schools and it was it

26:23

was too aggressive they

26:25

cancelled the gifted program because it made

26:27

other kids feel bad and a

26:29

gentleman that wanted to serve on a committee

26:32

the i think was gay but not minority was

26:35

excluded because the wasn't

26:37

a minority you

26:40

know for them the will be to

26:42

the three people that thought seventy six

26:44

percent of san francisco citizens or

26:46

residents just a recall

26:48

and if you're not following miss the tech industry

26:51

add a major part mess in terms of backing

26:53

it there was a lot of claims which all at saks

26:55

address in a moment that this was

26:57

a republican driven out of state

27:00

movement but if you look

27:02

there are not one hundred soon republic city

27:04

san francisco not like we're

27:06

it was actually our parents

27:08

a lot of cases based on the geography

27:11

of san francisco the density of certain populations

27:14

a lot of asian americans came out in force in

27:16

some neighborhoods ninety percent were

27:18

voting to oust these people are gary

27:20

tan who is a product of

27:22

the san francisco public education system and agree

27:25

the perimeter capitalist was

27:27

the leader in this movements or congratulations to

27:29

him and this always going to culminate to culminate

27:32

in may or june sasso correct me with

27:34

the recall effort for it's

27:37

just a booty in this killer da

27:39

who would prosecute anybody sacks where are your thoughts

27:41

on this victory and full disclosure you are

27:43

a major donor to this as a second largest donor

27:45

and i was the largest donor under age ninety

27:48

or the rock was the biggest donor what about us by

27:50

the way the guys ninety five years old he donated to four

27:52

thousand dollars to the side recall

27:55

the are you in fairness you

27:57

live in san francisco this francisco a backdoor issue

27:59

for yeah

28:00

hero yeah yeah look i think crime and

28:02

schools are the key quality of

28:04

life issues in any community and

28:06

that transcends partisan boundaries

28:08

if your kids can argue the quality education

28:11

and you cannot be safe in your community nothing

28:13

else matters an amateur said democrats

28:15

as much as republicans and

28:17

that's why like you said three courses or cisco

28:20

voted for this recall even though eighty five so

28:22

the motive for bidens not pc

28:24

and ninety percent democrats city so you

28:27

know all these claims i was a republican recall

28:29

turn out to be nonsense this was something that was

28:31

broadly supported the and

28:33

calm and you know look at the same

28:35

reason that young can slip hey

28:38

ya plus ten democrats stayed in

28:40

virginia which is that

28:43

you know it out a lot to do with school closures

28:45

like of the schools closed for the you're

28:47

an hour a and then when they were

28:49

supposed to have currency a p t

28:51

meeting about reopening it like to

28:53

moscow said they spent five hours to be

28:56

whether to allow this beloved gay

28:58

parent onto a voluntary school board

29:00

they didn't this when all the time you're

29:02

talking about changing the names of the schools and somehow

29:04

to reopen that they also there's comic

29:06

mismanagement i mean the schools something like hundred

29:08

forty five million dollars in debt despite

29:11

being in a very rich can see the

29:13

open for one day as right as soon as

29:15

they could get a state piece of the

29:17

state budget pie

29:19

these kids clamored back to school

29:21

to so that they get leaked technically say yeah we

29:23

were open and to get i think it was

29:25

over thirty million dollar check and and they shut the schools

29:28

down again

29:29

you probably boy jason which is that the asian

29:31

american community of sources good but actually

29:33

galvanize by this issue because the school

29:36

board also your local high schools

29:38

were the best schools in the city and it was merit base

29:40

and add great advance math programs

29:42

and this this board basically got rid of

29:44

all that stuff and then infuriated

29:47

the asian american community many of whose

29:49

most prominent members have basically really

29:51

risen out of poverty because of

29:53

the education they got a law i'm

29:55

so this war on merit that's happening

29:58

the is something that you're going to

30:01

flip erasing american

30:04

community i think tonight

30:07

when i was growing up i grew up in

30:09

a french ghetto bottle

30:10

then

30:13

i was supposed to go to local

30:15

high school that was just plainly

30:17

trash i was

30:20

able to go to an equivalent of low as

30:22

a public magnet high school that had

30:25

the advanced classes in everything

30:27

the gifted program and

30:30

it really did change my life and so

30:32

i really understand what people are saying which is

30:35

like when you're in poverty the

30:37

only way out is through an education really

30:40

you make you know get accidently lucky but

30:42

the only really predictable sustainable pattern

30:45

here the is to school and

30:47

so when you deprive for

30:49

be able to get a decent education then

30:52

there's no real hero orderly logic

30:54

to it it's really the taking

30:56

kind of an idea the other thing is i think

30:58

that the speak very powerfully

31:01

they said had a non as a bipartisan

31:04

issue that these democrats have to get right because

31:06

you know you saw this also in virginia

31:10

where democrats basically

31:12

went down this one cat

31:14

then you know the republican candidate

31:16

fine young can basically said he was

31:18

in the schools are broken it's completely doesn't

31:20

make any sense we oppose a

31:22

lot of what's going on the watering down and the critical

31:25

race theory etc etc any put it to a vote

31:27

then a lot of people cross the aisle there

31:29

as well were typically ardent

31:31

democrats basically voted for the republican governor

31:34

the point is that there are just several

31:37

issues that are just so transcend

31:40

like they're to say transcend all party lines

31:42

and this is an anchor issue

31:44

that we have to get right freiburg any thoughts

31:46

on this you think this is the start

31:49

of

31:50

maybe a turn around for san francisco

31:52

cause just a boon is

31:54

the way more heated and cp

31:56

as an even bigger issue i think for a lot of people

31:58

right now in san francisco and

32:01

it dovetails with season hate and the

32:03

number of asian people targeted in

32:05

crimes so he's got a repeat

32:07

of these people got api seventy five percent on average

32:09

he's gonna be up i ninety five percent is

32:11

this a tipping point a separatists gonna gonna make a return

32:14

on military the i think there's generally a broader

32:19

grand and momentum around

32:21

what we classify as woke them which

32:23

i think is a little bit discouraging the

32:26

intention of those are

32:28

jumpers and recognizing the

32:31

the primary point of social justice the

32:33

room action and behavior

32:35

the in civic discourse and

32:38

and government behavior

32:39

the end of this like the election

32:42

, several da's

32:45

around the country who take who

32:47

staff the prosecution of crime to try

32:49

and create better options for rehab and and

32:52

and so on

32:53

i think is not a movement that gonna go away

32:55

overnight i think they're certainly there as

32:57

as as as the amount of resistance

33:00

but what we're really doing right now is i think

33:02

we're learning and realizing the boundaries

33:04

this movement and of this moment

33:07

the one boundary that i think they're franciscans

33:10

are too bad it's infancy so what you

33:12

know it doesn't the case in tech and always been no

33:14

progressive in terms of you know doing the

33:17

things faster than than anyone else

33:19

the what we're realizing san francisco is not

33:21

prosecution of criminals as

33:23

the da has undertaken over the past couple of

33:25

years leads to really heinous

33:27

crime and rampant crime

33:30

the and arm and and and is kind

33:32

of social justice movement within the education

33:34

system causes a decline in the value

33:36

of our education system so they're to really

33:38

important learning the san francisco has

33:41

had over the past couple of years with it's

33:43

very important the

33:45

a momentous kind of social justice movement

33:47

it doesn't mean that the movement is

33:49

over it doesn't mean the quote unquote what isn't as

33:51

over it means that that social justice

33:53

intend to still there but we're realizing

33:55

where the boundaries are and how far things can and eighty

33:57

said gop opposed to this article

34:00

they had a common who serves you

34:02

know pretty well known economists he wrote this or that

34:04

said that for our bloomberg and

34:06

what he said his and walk isn't has pete

34:09

and there's a cease to passages that the

34:11

bills on what free burke said

34:13

the quote my work is i'm i refer to

34:15

a movement that on the positive side a savvy

34:17

aware of racism in social injustice

34:20

the galvanize towards raising awareness

34:22

on the negative side it can be preachy

34:25

alienating overly concerned with symbols

34:28

and self righteous unquote and

34:30

i think that probably does summarize

34:32

sort of like where it starts which is i think rooted

34:34

in a very good place unfortunately

34:37

all too often where it ends which is

34:39

that sort of moral absolute

34:41

his judgment cancel culture

34:43

around and then the second

34:45

quote he said with the following

34:47

is a quote workers and is likely to

34:49

a waltz into a subculture highly

34:52

educated highly wife and

34:54

fairly feminine that is still

34:56

a large mass of people at not enough

34:58

to run the country or all it's major institutions

35:01

in the san francisco school board recall for

35:03

instance the role of asian americans especially

35:06

prominent unquote so i don't know

35:08

anything all

35:11

these things sort of people

35:13

are looking for affiliation then you

35:15

start with labels that bring you and and then you

35:17

have to sort out are

35:19

all these labels really true and how to are

35:21

they and i think we're in this moment now where

35:24

we know the mechanism of action of autism of

35:26

autism don't think it works anymore and i bet a lot of people

35:29

will say i believe in the high order of deals

35:31

of racial and social justice but i don't believe

35:33

in the mechanism of action and so the pendulum swung

35:35

too far but but but

35:37

but the core intent of a generation of change

35:40

of underwear which is social justice

35:42

and climate change i think those are the too big

35:44

a point the beaches are going to be done with this cohort

35:47

under this well it will be done to this extreme

35:49

this fast right and and i think

35:51

that the pendulum went too fast

35:53

the bar arm and a some

35:55

and and they're they're a boundary of fact that are causing

35:58

recourse right now and we'll we'll see

36:00

across the country especially in new york with us

36:02

election of the mayor of san francisco that the

36:04

da recalls happening in the next couple months

36:07

what's your prediction under the a recall by the way or that

36:09

ninety five percent but i mean it it is to build on your point

36:12

the return of a ten percent of the people

36:14

in the united states were involved in this

36:16

retreating and virtue signaling

36:18

and his twitter a real place well

36:20

no a cities a real place people have to live

36:23

in san francisco we need ideology

36:25

is resulted the unlivable

36:27

conditions for people the

36:29

they're gonna say you know what it does reality

36:31

here will how do we get competent people

36:34

the take the positions sachs that

36:36

are being vacated now who should blended

36:39

breed put in the three positions maybe

36:42

tech people need this i mean this is what i think has to happen

36:44

i think some number of tech people have to get off

36:46

the bench

36:47

and her you know what i'm going to do a tour of duty as

36:50

politicians in san francisco to

36:53

to take back the city what should happen here

36:55

in terms of who takes these positions as republicans

36:57

can't win in san francisco see gonna need moderate democrats

37:00

right tackle football for sex go try to say something

37:02

or into the the i just decided for the vortex

37:04

i'm sorry to bother about yeah

37:07

i did the point you're making about the

37:09

tech people implies the tech people

37:11

are effective instead of doing this that

37:13

not necessarily the fabric of san francisco

37:15

i was in san francisco since two thousand and one

37:18

the number of people in san francisco in two thousand and one

37:20

there were in the tech industry was a minority young

37:22

set time it became a significant size

37:24

and over the last two years since the pandemic it's decrease

37:27

in effingham lights but the of francisco the city

37:29

with decades and generations of history my

37:31

wife's family is multi generational

37:33

san franciscan and i don't think that

37:35

traditionally san franciscans view

37:37

of the people as the want people to

37:39

solve these problems for them that's the

37:41

intention of that city is not necessarily about

37:44

must attack people to solve our problems they have

37:46

a different set of values perhaps arm

37:48

and so we often overstate and assume attack

37:50

people are the right people and our this

37:52

this the problem solvers but i don't think

37:55

that that's necessarily the right problems if people

37:57

want us all sizes i wanted to intervene and emotional

37:59

take these position because right people they can

38:01

only ask i'm really far less people

38:03

are motivated to take these positions i don't see

38:06

business people writ large across all

38:08

political position by specific

38:10

every system don't want to take his position so is this

38:12

just gonna be replayed sex

38:15

the recall ever was led by two parents

38:17

autumn lose and and see mirage they're the

38:19

ones who are the same they're the ones who rose

38:21

up to basically oppose these crazy

38:24

school board members

38:25

yeah that is your london bridge to talk to

38:27

or me she needs to go talk to the people who are successful

38:30

than organizing this recall because they

38:32

understand the issues obviously and the

38:34

people or with them so either a point

38:36

them to the board or ask them for the recommendations

38:39

and i think what you see consistently whether it's

38:42

with his ss school board

38:44

or the or the the school boards

38:46

that we saw in virginia the young can

38:48

be very effectively ran against isn't

38:50

they don't believe the parents matter story

38:53

mccollough sprayed all that his last

38:55

job was basically saying that the parents

38:57

should get to decide what is taught in schools

39:00

he bases are the choir part out loud but

39:02

that is what still across the country

39:04

the teachers unions believe and most the

39:06

democratic party the activists believe and

39:09

until they start losing elections you're

39:11

not going to see a change in that alley

39:14

oh my god how often would be a factor on the scoreboard oh

39:17

my god

39:18

yeah ah and just to

39:20

put a pin a mess and the cherry

39:22

on top

39:23

there francisco board of supervisors voted

39:26

seventy four

39:27

that a recall reform bill so

39:29

their reaction to all of this is to do

39:32

a recall of recalls

39:34

and say now you got

39:36

can't recall somebody in their first year and a people

39:39

who are place in these positions can't run against

39:41

are now the speculation is that three people that voted

39:43

off

39:43

we're gonna run again so there's a

39:46

lot more to come on the at iso purports

39:48

so they've been putting just to decide that they're

39:50

putting that on the ballot on june

39:52

seventh the same day that we vote on the recall

39:54

of to be deal of are summarized now put in

39:56

this measure that would make it far

39:59

recall people one the provisions of that is

40:01

wherever london breed of choice

40:03

as the successor like you're talking about they

40:06

cannot run after that so

40:09

it is designed to pay for know that makes no

40:11

sense their basic dropping you a great job right

40:13

exactly it makes no sense so

40:15

you have the board of supervisors trying to throw a wrench

40:18

into the democratic process meanwhile these

40:20

are people who claim to be preserving democracy

40:22

saving democracy barracks on the door wrench

40:25

in there is an underlying

40:27

a david as they think they know better

40:30

i put a fundamentally comes out who they are willing

40:32

to have democracy up to par the

40:35

that point is an unacceptable view by somebody

40:37

else they feel like they know better they're

40:40

going to be really the tony in

40:42

in whatever they do to decide yeah

40:45

shoutout to my bloomberg a pull up the

40:47

the tweet for everybody

40:50

the hasn't been very vocal or been on the stage

40:52

much but obviously did a great job in new york

40:54

on reforming schools the san francisco

40:56

school board recall should be a

40:59

wake up call to elected officials especially

41:01

democrats across the nation parents are fed

41:03

up with the status quo and i put adults

41:06

that puts adults to had kids

41:08

one ideology ahead of results while

41:10

said mike we are well said mr bloomberg

41:13

yes that was very good and bloomberg has been

41:15

very good on calling out the democrat

41:17

their dog i parties blind loyalty to

41:19

the teachers union stand until they're

41:22

willing to break with the teachers unions

41:24

who are their biggest donor were knocking at any

41:26

real progress on school reform

41:28

yeah this is he is your mother a global com

41:30

tier one of them as roy to sheriff is a democrat

41:33

he wrote the emerging democratic majority he

41:35

wrote a blog post talking about

41:37

how these salaries american voters are going to sway

41:40

away from iraq with democratic party because

41:42

of issues like this because of to the conservatives

41:44

in school and safety and and

41:47

asia much money i think is galvanize on the streets

41:49

beauty issue because they have seen in

41:52

all these cases of asian the age

41:54

where elders in their community have been violently

41:56

assaulted she's moody and has done nothing

41:58

it's release

42:00

the perpetrator rancorous i wanna see

42:02

this as seems like a good turning point let let

42:04

some we talked about on this podcast

42:06

over and over again

42:07

that the compression in sas multiples

42:10

in the public market valuations

42:12

as something that we're still working through in

42:14

the stock market which has been shopping

42:16

at fast over the last couple of months when

42:19

information story came out i just this week

42:21

major cross over funds like tiger indie want

42:23

are slowing down their investment

42:25

and makes a private companies and i was starting to

42:27

some folks the said the multiple compression

42:30

is here now they're not doing the deals

42:32

at seventy five or one hundred acts revenue

42:35

this is reported i in an article by the information

42:37

tiger global told their l peas in a

42:39

webinar earlier this month that

42:41

it would no longer focus on back the

42:43

each stage startups preparing to go public

42:45

instead they will focus on to things

42:47

going even earlier decisions haynes there

42:50

is be rounds and buying shares a public

42:52

tech companies that have sunk in value

42:54

compared to the all time highs

42:56

a obviously know tele zoom block all

42:59

down over sixty per cent from their one

43:01

your hiv i could get into more details here but

43:03

lets stop for second and chemo what are your thoughts in

43:05

a the from ball

43:09

somewhere between three to five years for

43:11

most stocks the bottom they

43:13

bought and i think peak to trough summer

43:17

in only words eighty percent of

43:19

where they were in two thousand and rights

43:21

of it took three to five years to

43:23

go basically minus eighty percent we

43:26

did that in three months maybe

43:29

four months feel that

43:31

the markets have become a lot more efficient

43:34

overtime

43:35

though now that we have our reset

43:37

it's pretty natural that they're saying to be a very quick

43:40

reset on the private market size

43:42

then he know you have to go where the bodies

43:45

are buried and what i mean by that in this case

43:47

is overwhelming

43:49

miss valuation of late stage

43:52

private companies these

43:54

folks don't have much of a choice they have a

43:56

lot of money the boy

43:59

the for the happen

44:01

the have a huge portfolio stuff that they've

44:03

marked up or have been marked up by others

44:08

they don't wanna go through the pain now resetting

44:10

so part of the easy strategic

44:12

decision there is to say you know what we

44:15

know this is a little bit radioactive but

44:17

instead of really figuring out what the mark

44:20

on these companies are will go to

44:22

a different sort of part of the the

44:25

ground and play there we

44:27

don't have to go and deal with these issues and

44:30

you know what we can do ten fifteen twenty million

44:32

dollar checks it early stage businesses pretty

44:34

normal reaction strategically i

44:37

think the reality is that at some point in the next

44:39

year or two these other companies

44:42

have to get public the hope is that the market

44:44

couches backup the that you can

44:46

defend the last valuation

44:48

and that's the that's the way that this stuff doesn't

44:50

require a lot of pain the

44:52

problem is if your hybrid the

44:55

new are counting on yet another success around

44:57

or

44:59

you're at a point in your life cycle where you need to go public

45:01

in the next two years if you go public you

45:04

will get taken to the woodshed

45:06

you know which are being your valuation my behalf

45:08

of what it is in your last round so there's going to be

45:10

medicine that has to be taken sacks they'll

45:12

be medicine some people don't have to take some medicine

45:14

sex which are best advice being one of the great

45:16

operators in the history of silicon

45:18

valley as ceo pay between terminal

45:22

i'm fairly sure i mean i think this

45:24

i think everybody agree the top four people can correct

45:26

me here the amount of operator

45:31

i mean i i saw what you did i c q many

45:33

were right enough that bad boy down i was delivered

45:35

a billion fucking users to accompany okay

45:37

or diseases

45:39

he did pretty good a face but i say that but if i

45:41

would think most people would say sacks cheryl

45:44

can call

45:45

the to boy the put that aside for the debate

45:47

in terms of operating system a little

45:49

dark spicy bbq pork it can

45:51

be can put you in the top twenty five to masses once

45:54

again but i mean it wasn't for providing troops

45:56

into reality

46:00

gimme a drama medical bring me to do your

46:02

dog people are orbit stepping

46:05

through who are your top four cheryl i found

46:07

my for in this order i'll give it an order

46:09

so basically for white people when

46:13

one other asian and indian ceos

46:16

run most of the tech companies and some talking about

46:18

number to seal i was not see us this

46:21

for the see opposition to be clear i'm not i can see

46:23

on tennessee oh i would say temple

46:26

when he was steve jobs that's my

46:28

number one operator less than it or years number

46:30

two up with sheryl sandberg

46:32

who did obviously amazing things for google

46:34

and then facebook

46:35

those who would be my top two and then i try

46:37

my top two sacks ah

46:40

as a paper

46:42

and then if it's even a gym workout who stole

46:44

a great run at the time and then i put

46:46

you through boy square and

46:49

a couple of other companies he did those are my top

46:51

for anybody else want to come at me glad i don't have

46:54

completes dataset on c o o's what we

46:56

would you put sachs but

46:58

then i put your mind disagree

47:00

that might a decent a

47:02

, and rural and was a key that was linked in

47:04

it it an orderly or jericho

47:06

or homelessness nathanael

47:09

saga their

47:11

back together using why does the summer

47:13

of view and fried burger

47:15

at each other's throats saw just like you guys fight

47:18

it out and i'll be all about blood the after

47:20

uber why you're talking shit gulf he has

47:22

talking shit with the soil over there north

47:24

ossetia in your lane free birth says acts

47:26

as an operator extraordinary what's your

47:28

best advice to the company had a race

47:31

one hundred million on let's say the valuations now

47:33

not a billion it's five hundred million what are the

47:35

steps you take enough fourteen months of runway and

47:37

the bank the away people are i do

47:39

extended to twenty four what are your thoughts dog

47:41

must be dealing with this with companies in your phone

47:44

the one is a few things going on for size a tiger

47:46

built a great business and provide

47:48

a late stage sort of passes

47:51

and on delete of capital the two

47:53

companies us companies we have a bunch of dogs

47:57

they provided winter seats financing the

48:00

the directions you're a calm down i don't know

48:02

that they're going to be such a great partner for series a firm's

48:04

because they are possible

48:06

yeah we see is a series a companies

48:08

need a lot of help they need a lot of advising

48:10

a lot of help with recruiting governor governance

48:13

they need you know when they're growing from say

48:15

twenty employees to one hundred and you know what that org

48:17

chart looks like and on and on and on so

48:19

i don't know that if if this report

48:22

i dunno if this reporting is actually true

48:24

if the goal is all this on for tired become a

48:26

series i invested like competes with crafter

48:29

sequoia these other firms there's not

48:31

really hands on that it doesn't seem

48:33

angry strategy the me i do think that

48:35

for our later stage companies they have to realize

48:38

that you know they raised the

48:40

other side of the sorry david i saw your

48:42

reactions i think it's

48:44

gonna work the not for the right reason

48:47

the reader to work is there are way more

48:49

entrepreneurs now than there are

48:51

great entrepreneurs

48:54

so of all of these entrepreneurs that exist

48:57

the idea of getting passes money

49:00

where you won't get fired where

49:02

there is that remember like member when we were growing

49:04

up in silicon valley the risk is always like

49:06

if you take sequoia benchmarks

49:09

you know social got blisters

49:11

on high bar for that capital which means

49:13

we're helping you run this business effectively

49:15

and there's a place where you don't perform

49:18

you'll get fired there's always been that risk

49:20

is true and i guess that's the argument they could

49:22

make and flipside is that there's a lot of easy is

49:24

so that ceo now

49:26

why would you take a fifteen million dollars series paycheck

49:29

from somewhere where they could fire you were fifteen

49:31

million dollars from tiger they may never call you

49:33

we we we address off by drink lucky enough

49:35

to owners really worried about that we address up

49:38

i give me three board seats you know we might

49:40

have one them out of three

49:42

i mean my view on his use never fire

49:44

a foreigner was a dos or incremental which is that

49:46

simple right so

49:48

what i think there's ways of addressing the governance

49:51

were a you can get the

49:53

help or the value out of an early-stage from without

49:55

give me up the control though

49:58

yeah i mean but despotism i would make but

50:00

i think that's addressable

50:02

what do you think about pitch free berg i will give

50:04

you the fifteen million dollar series a you

50:07

don't have to have a board you are getting justice

50:09

be passive and a let us know how

50:11

it goes give us a quarterly report will look at the piano

50:13

that is all of the crypto now anyways that's

50:16

true i mean that's a fair point no governance and

50:18

crypto was leading to a lot of weird stuff i can

50:20

tell you i tell people this is a lot so i had

50:22

a three term sheets for my theory be

50:24

a it was from andreessen horowitz coastal

50:27

adventures and foundered sign and found refunded

50:29

or came in kind of last minute

50:32

by i went with cosla or

50:34

even though the lower valuation because the node with

50:36

pretty insistent like let me put someone

50:38

it could be used for them you know government

50:41

percent is were doing a lot of work lobbying and in

50:43

a disease on your board we

50:45

won't be on your board we will bother you and i took the round

50:47

and in my series see i took from saturday find tickets

50:49

brine sentiments who's obviously the friend

50:53

you know made the case like look out our

50:55

model a sounder thunders we must address on the

50:57

business we're not here to tell you how to run your business

50:59

and they were both crisis and it worked out

51:01

well i didn't i had

51:03

i have had experience with antagonistic

51:06

ccs on board there are

51:08

you know generally create the pretty negative dynamic now

51:10

when i don't know where story without the person's

51:12

then i don't think i want to go public with it some

51:14

i could do that i'm but when i was on give

51:16

us an idea of what the behavior would be there are

51:18

people naughty to want to know what is bad behavior of

51:20

you see just give us a composite when you're an entrepreneur

51:23

or see a running an early stage business

51:25

you live that business twenty hours a day

51:27

you know the details if you're smart

51:30

your thorough your analytical your creative

51:32

there is no one is going to come in the boardroom for

51:34

two hours of quarter and suggesting

51:37

see you that you haven't thought of there's no one is that a common

51:39

the room and be smarter than you at your own business

51:42

so more often than not the nodes been exceptional

51:44

at the fighting the problem

51:46

the problem is the sees fit join a board

51:48

and they think that they have to quote add value

51:51

to the comment and to make a bunch of suggestions and

51:53

recommendations and push you to your boss or things

51:55

and as the node has said correctly many times

51:58

be more often than not add negative

52:00

are you say can actually destroyed damage

52:02

a business because they need to feel like

52:04

they're exerting some degree of influence over the business

52:06

and as a result they push the business to do think

52:08

that the c e o or sad or otherwise wouldn't be doing

52:11

and i often ends up in a kind of weird city

52:13

can apply finalizes holidays out a tiger

52:15

fits within i didn't have a bottle

52:17

is was founded on saturday for

52:19

the fantastic that as adults that

52:22

are a l p but their investment returns

52:24

are so far beyond what i think anyone really realize

52:26

that their credible investors

52:28

the big part of it as they try and find the entrepreneur

52:30

the doesn't want and doesn't need the help let

52:33

me give them the capital to go to execute and may lead

52:35

them to hack along and they are just so good

52:37

at finding those folks identifying them

52:39

and then literally being passive

52:41

and in in how they kind of manage an operator

52:43

business and that's why they are so friggin get

52:45

i think the people you're talking about are a lotta rookie

52:47

v sees who come in and then yeah they

52:50

they think the officer and i just experienced

52:52

sex operators even people who read this as saddam

52:54

hussein i know how to run a business and look no two

52:56

businesses are like so maybe the way they

52:58

ran their business with their team and their market

53:00

their industry worked well for them but now when

53:03

they gotta come in and do it was someone elses business and some

53:05

other space with i'm completely different

53:07

team

53:08

you know they're trying to exert influence and really it's just you

53:10

know not wanted let me go to sack sacks

53:12

hold on i want to just get one from you

53:15

give us an idea cause you been in the business for over twenty

53:17

years i'm in the

53:19

look at it made forty but twenty years had just

53:22

crushing in the business what's the worst behavior

53:24

you've seen on a board

53:27

you can make a composite of like a vc

53:29

to being disruptive on a board

53:31

yeah me luck i think is a nice receives

53:34

while sir bobby orr says about keep pushing

53:36

for saying superpower doesn't want that's

53:39

not productive

53:41

what what what i would say as for saw me

53:43

to say like i'm not somebody who

53:46

likes to take board seats and i

53:48

i do it as a if i see as

53:50

a cost not a benefit to me going

53:52

to take the my time if i do not ever take

53:54

a board seats or be a great over as i'm concerned

53:57

that be a good thing i'm not somebody who wants

53:59

to you insert myself and get

54:01

on these boards email offered as an incentive

54:03

know the only only to give

54:06

more details yet the only reason ever

54:08

to a boards used because i have to do it because the

54:10

founder insisted that i don't know if

54:12

i've seen with of and so is under angela

54:14

with for one year right you'll say i'll do it for a year

54:16

i always time limit it now because i just can't

54:19

i mean i can't make its and your obligation

54:21

you know it's typically like one or two years and

54:23

then you know we'll see doesn't mean i'll roll offered

54:25

in two years but the my buddies

54:28

are the expectation that are

54:30

here and in the reality is if the company

54:32

can perform well for another two years

54:35

will be a different stage and maybe them all

54:37

you need my help as much so tomorrow

54:39

the two most valuable the

54:42

to the private equity that i own the

54:45

company called dc and

54:48

if a company called nazca

54:50

collectively it's like billion dollars or the stop

54:52

and a on watch i'm on the board of

54:54

one i'm not on the border the other anymore

54:57

then i texted these guys maybe once

54:59

every two or three months at the

55:02

you know completely confirming david your point

55:05

that great sounders are just and of one individuals

55:08

you know barry silbert sandy

55:10

barry next level guys

55:12

that's

55:14

very different

55:16

then the the series a playbook because

55:18

when iran institutional money i'm telling you

55:20

there is a pressure to be involved and

55:23

show some value

55:25

and i do think that there's a level

55:27

of judgment on the ceo that

55:29

have happened know maybe that's change historically

55:32

i think that's the single biggest pivot that

55:34

one would explain if you are tiger

55:36

a coach you're the one stepping into

55:39

the early stage game financially

55:41

make a feature and it's not dissimilar

55:43

one tsp and yuri milner entered

55:46

the lazy drowned you know what was his big

55:48

differentiation a common

55:50

stock and it won't take a board seat

55:52

the not needed or to see to be influential

55:54

it seems so counterintuitive and so

55:57

against the grain that he acknowledged

56:00

what was the thing that up until

56:02

that point was true which is hominid

56:04

preferred converged in price per share

56:07

the buying calm and laid siege company

56:09

was the same and buying preferred your

56:12

that's something sexy planes as a term offer

56:14

second people don't know is that that and i know

56:16

what must admit so when you set up a company

56:19

you ever played for sure of the common sought and then

56:21

a price for sure that the series a investor house

56:24

he was they must resign preferred shares

56:26

that actually looks more like death than

56:29

equities and what i mean by that is there's typically

56:31

a coupon there's a rate of return there's

56:33

accumulated dividends all these

56:35

features give it a certain

56:38

price per share and the common has none of those

56:40

features and so it has alert every provisions

56:43

that gap is typically around

56:45

twenty to one when you set up a company okay

56:48

that it allows you to hire employees

56:50

and give them very very cheap options

56:52

with embedded upside then what

56:54

happens is you raise more and more the series

56:57

be series see theory the these preference

56:59

stack right prep preferred shares build

57:01

up the value the common keeps

57:03

rising to and by the time you go public the

57:05

gap converges

57:08

what uri realize was a wait a minute i'm

57:10

buying a company a year or eighteen

57:12

months before goes public the price of the common

57:14

in the price of the preferred are roughly the same i'm

57:17

just gonna veto do that in a marketing

57:20

a mercy because it's clear this companies successful

57:22

so similarly for tiger do you want

57:24

and so too

57:26

the just observe the obvious and kind of put

57:28

everything that we just sit on the table which is hey guys

57:30

are give you the money you're either and of one

57:32

or not

57:34

i'm making a guess that you are and i'm just going to coffee

57:36

or he leave you alone i never and governance

57:38

and advice on bundling the governance and advice

57:41

piece from the capital peace but you can still mean

57:43

that covered it's a device peace i think it worked

57:46

as it is a lot of great founders or their

57:48

or their you start young inexperienced become

57:50

great and the smart ones listen

57:52

to advice on the way and they would they seek out

57:54

people you've done it before and

57:56

though you know yes they may be an anna

57:59

one business

58:00

the gross stage for that doesn't mean they

58:02

don't need any help whatsoever at the series a stage

58:04

such a good observation and that lot i think this man

58:07

has been an evolution silicon valley of actually sinister

58:09

my three distinct phases in the bunch a couple

58:11

world am i remember all of her she go

58:13

back to the denied the late nineties

58:15

okay when near you out

58:18

this mentality on the part if he sees that

58:20

if a company became successful huge is automatically

58:22

replace the founders right you go brain special see

58:25

afraid that was his ouster okay

58:27

and and that's when strong response peter came

58:29

in i think founded thunderstorm

58:31

in two thousand and three and the reason they call it

58:33

a to understand that is to indicate they were going to be

58:35

profound or and they will never replace the

58:37

founder and they would let you do whatever you want

58:39

it and i think it's all the backstory

58:42

of the sean parker stuff and how that we yeah i

58:44

mean so basically both peter and

58:46

sean parker had you know

58:48

experiences they felt were very negative

58:50

with sequoia and and by the way i agree

58:53

relations specifically a roll-off through work with of the

58:55

paypal is there and i think dave of all

58:57

as a from so i'm not calling them out or

58:59

anything but the about those sean

59:01

parker and peter felt like sequoia

59:03

pushed out and replace so

59:06

when walk so specifically there

59:08

are couple different companies involved a good peter was see

59:11

you have up a foul as well that the

59:13

are you gonna be felt the pressure as well so

59:16

when they then sounded as to the for founding

59:18

partners a farmer some back in two thousand

59:20

and three the whole point was we're

59:22

going to be profound or your another place will

59:24

you to everyone the guy that was

59:26

for you to and that became i think the dominant

59:28

model and so becoming profound

59:31

or was now table stakes and i think the

59:33

third phase has been you

59:35

know what injuries nervous as well done with a massive

59:38

the services in a value add which is

59:41

that we're gonna basically normally be profound

59:43

or to we're gonna like bring all these resources

59:46

to help you yeah doctor your

59:48

we're in right now i mean from but from our

59:50

perspective like as as cry

59:53

a lot it's not your interest to get into any

59:55

to sue the founder and if we feel like our

59:57

advice isn't being taken while we just bought

1:00:00

you know of course or profound

1:00:02

or like we don't want to control we're not

1:00:04

to for dusters

1:00:05

the and you know if it's every episode

1:00:08

of is becoming frictional were others get

1:00:10

all the way noises onwards the the

1:00:12

underlying things you're not seeing those is because

1:00:15

you have enough of a fun that's large enough

1:00:17

where you can have enough that's weren't any these

1:00:19

any be things to be outside is a total

1:00:21

needle mover but anything that goes to

1:00:23

zero doesn't actually diminish the fondren

1:00:26

parrot meaningfully so there is no

1:00:28

upside to getting engaged in really be non

1:00:30

anti founder so yeah i think is it

1:00:32

i think it's a part of a business model but the one thing on

1:00:34

a table parker the with single

1:00:36

handedly incredibly responsible

1:00:38

for keeping sock in the seat when he was president

1:00:40

of a book is parker road you know

1:00:43

the structure that really allowed mark to

1:00:45

keep control super voting shares a sack

1:00:47

of to to add onto your your point i

1:00:49

think that there's been the

1:00:51

don't see it there seems to be a bifurcation

1:00:54

around the services model or not but

1:00:56

the forcing the seems to have happen and you

1:00:58

guys tell me if i'm wrong on this but if it

1:01:00

plays into the tiger global story what

1:01:02

when i was a when i got

1:01:04

that terms for my series be the

1:01:07

climate court martialed recent i was hungry like

1:01:09

twenty five to thirty nine dollars market reasons like

1:01:11

where did he give you twenty for forty million dollars more

1:01:14

than you are asking for

1:01:15

because we want you to use that extra capital to go

1:01:18

faster to go harder to grabbed the market because

1:01:20

we just take a bench in businesses that grabbing the

1:01:22

market that seems to have also

1:01:24

become a bit of a mainstay but not as the main

1:01:26

say but now almost like the

1:01:28

the the kind of a standard pitch

1:01:31

that a lot of the later stage guys are taking which

1:01:33

is like years

1:01:34

so much capital that it help you make the

1:01:36

market analysts off that isn't fun

1:01:38

kind of had that to disagree with a hundred billion dollar

1:01:40

raise entire global i think last year has

1:01:43

publicly said they deployed about fifteen billion

1:01:45

dollars is a start ups were stored

1:01:47

up me in a natural cycle kind of evolved

1:01:49

in eating seventy million dollar raise or hundred million

1:01:51

dollars and they're like writing checks for to fifty

1:01:54

or three hundred and saying the sex or capital

1:01:56

gives you the ability to move faster the reason is the

1:01:59

factor of his the move the

1:02:01

higher the multiple they get on the revenue

1:02:03

for the higher the growth rate the higher the multiple

1:02:05

through if you can deploy capital faster we could

1:02:07

find a business where we can pump money through

1:02:09

you to get it out the door faster your

1:02:11

multiple goes up and tigers model was let's

1:02:14

just get the multiple top has multiple expansion

1:02:16

and growth will make money to wave

1:02:18

on the company goes public and eighteen it's my four months

1:02:21

obviously when the markets end up taking and all those

1:02:23

multiple compressed no growth rate

1:02:25

as an assault that problem for you but

1:02:28

we're having more capital the maybe you are

1:02:30

thinking you're asking for also seems

1:02:32

to have become kind of attack the animals that

1:02:34

you gotta start of the sport the

1:02:37

illusion but i certainly wasn't the case twenty

1:02:39

years ago nvc for be careful about his

1:02:41

six million all around and eight million dollar what's the right

1:02:43

amount of capital the nowadays it's much

1:02:45

more about take more than enough ophelia

1:02:48

was a three point five in there which is

1:02:50

you saw a little bit of lack

1:02:52

of governance or superpowers on

1:02:54

the part of like something company founders about

1:02:56

founders just you know whether

1:02:58

it's we worked or and us whatever too much control

1:03:01

not enough governance things go off the rails based

1:03:04

on this discussion i really think this bifurcate

1:03:06

when it's the first time founder versus a

1:03:08

second time found in what i see because i have been

1:03:10

doing for training for seed companies where

1:03:12

i you have three founders

1:03:15

sit in on each other's first board meetings

1:03:17

we do one board meeting each and i train them how

1:03:19

board meetings works and what i experienced with

1:03:22

the coil my board motherboards the

1:03:24

first time founders like the tactical stuff

1:03:26

how to run a board meeting legal age are hiring

1:03:29

partnerships go to market tradesmen

1:03:31

it it is tactical

1:03:33

all the time and then when i've been on with second

1:03:35

and third time founders you know they

1:03:38

really are like here's all the materials here's

1:03:40

what i'm thinking about what do we think strategically

1:03:42

so they go from a doctoral ever to the strategic admission

1:03:45

level awfully quick and they actually seem

1:03:47

to enjoy having those for meetings a year we're

1:03:49

at first i thought is really need to have six

1:03:51

the cat a year in those in that first you

1:03:54

know point year to have a company that's

1:03:56

my experience i realized in this discussion

1:03:59

the market the really meaningfully change

1:04:01

meaning

1:04:02

that would actively investing even in the early

1:04:04

two thousand er sorry in

1:04:06

the in two thousand and eleven twelve thirteen

1:04:09

there was a culture

1:04:11

where if you underperformed you get replaced and

1:04:14

i think david what you to spoke about which

1:04:17

the guess is true has really changed

1:04:19

which is if you're running a multi multi billion

1:04:21

dollar fun abby check

1:04:23

is twenty million dollars the upside is billions

1:04:26

for the downside is negative twenty there's

1:04:28

no point

1:04:30

you know sequoia used to be known as a very

1:04:32

very very tough tough tough

1:04:34

place for ceos are underperforming now

1:04:36

they're going to nine million dollar fun night and twenty

1:04:39

years ago after doesn't matter too much no

1:04:41

not even even ten minutes and ten years ago

1:04:43

i think he was under you was known as a very

1:04:45

tough demanding place i mean benchmark was known as

1:04:47

a very tough demanding place because the money was

1:04:50

much more final then petsmart

1:04:52

still the still active the money i

1:04:54

need a case in call they never they never grew they're

1:04:56

fun side no you're not you're

1:04:58

not hearing me as i am i think what's

1:05:00

happening is like this and i had to quail my board

1:05:02

and i worked at subway or so there's there's in

1:05:05

high expectations which having all these don't have

1:05:07

to have and the

1:05:09

willingness to replace the founder as ceo

1:05:12

and what i'm saying is every bc claims this

1:05:15

but there were a handful of vcs that had the courage

1:05:17

to do this i mean famously mike morris and john

1:05:20

doerr you know how did out with larry a

1:05:23

at the you know rope broke up to this from like

1:05:25

to go public you know get your business ball

1:05:27

or give us our money by famously a google so

1:05:30

they're not they're willing to draw a line in the sand i

1:05:32

think about has fundamentally changed at all these

1:05:34

organizations because the fun thousand

1:05:36

gone up

1:05:37

and a random mathematical reality

1:05:39

of venture capital has changed something else you're

1:05:41

missing which is be i remember moritz indoor

1:05:44

were not operators and now these

1:05:46

companies are being run rule off is running

1:05:48

sequoia and he's an operator and he

1:05:50

was there so the changing of the guard

1:05:52

and marc andreessen horowitz were operator

1:05:55

so the operator class but he's very

1:05:57

differently don't agree with you i

1:05:59

think added

1:06:00

ironically disease not pullen i

1:06:02

think that fun sized dictates his behavior

1:06:04

more than any singular other feature

1:06:07

when you're running a nine billion dollar fun

1:06:09

you just don't sweat the changing of the ceo

1:06:11

and david said it really well

1:06:13

the to say okay utter losses and move once

1:06:15

we don't lose i dig and more about the culture change

1:06:17

in silicon valley as a bunch of mb a

1:06:19

finance people who have never run a company

1:06:22

now moving and running companies but yeah

1:06:24

let's move onto the next any closing

1:06:26

thoughts on this one well just have a in the gypsies

1:06:28

art directors point that if if you're a founder

1:06:31

and you want to eventually run a great public

1:06:33

company

1:06:34

when you i feel guess what you're

1:06:36

going out governments and

1:06:38

what i see a big time right i mean there's

1:06:41

the delaware law there's a lot of like

1:06:43

expectations around being a public company

1:06:46

them so if you don't have

1:06:48

on board you know you're not constituting

1:06:50

wanting to go public as can be a massive

1:06:52

amounts of clean up that you have to do

1:06:55

a massive i've seen i'm so

1:06:57

your your end up scrambling to create a board i think

1:06:59

that the board searches are

1:07:01

so many purposes early on of giving

1:07:03

you advice to me you structure

1:07:06

out of providing support help services

1:07:09

you can sole remaining control while getting

1:07:12

those things and i'm just i'm skeptical

1:07:14

that like if you former company was completely

1:07:16

passive v sees you doing with serve

1:07:18

on a board like you're gonna have to

1:07:20

do a lot to clean up later i see at a minimum

1:07:23

totally

1:07:24

adding that that's true to totally i'm not a bad

1:07:26

way i'm nothing on i advocate

1:07:28

this but and i just think so

1:07:30

the reality is that if these largely

1:07:32

stage crossover firms really step into

1:07:34

the early stage the think

1:07:36

it really build a big book a business and

1:07:39

i do think there are a lot of founders who would love

1:07:42

the just be given the money and just to be left

1:07:44

alone i'm not saying that they think they

1:07:46

know that it's better for them what

1:07:48

on the margin just be able to be left alone

1:07:50

now what changed maybe those everybodys

1:07:53

going be very hands off just because all the fun

1:07:55

sizes have exploded

1:07:57

at that point then you know what is the difference between

1:07:59

sequoia

1:08:00

andy one time will tell i just know that

1:08:02

like work when i see a founder doing something

1:08:04

that i think could risk the company guy off the rails

1:08:06

i'll say so then if

1:08:09

it keeps happening and teachers she gets worse

1:08:11

aussie so again i might many

1:08:13

moves or time i might not this

1:08:16

is why i'm just like maybe after like

1:08:18

two times honestly the nautilus me that's fine their

1:08:20

decision their company their decisions

1:08:23

they off the rails their problem in i will

1:08:25

move onto the next one the not reality

1:08:28

sometimes founders have to learn by doing

1:08:30

it like sometimes their intent and your the could be right

1:08:32

and you to be wrong to so it's is right as that

1:08:35

is hard as a board member you know that's

1:08:37

why i'm very judicious in

1:08:40

giving advice as a board member now and i'm on a bunch

1:08:42

of boards and do were training because when

1:08:44

the rule of was on my board and he still as

1:08:46

if he would ask ray questions as he would be

1:08:48

very thoughtful about have you thought about this or when

1:08:50

i've got advice from dog or michael moore it's

1:08:52

directly yeah doug would say hey

1:08:55

what can you share the to your plan with me and i'd say

1:08:57

you know we haven't built a plan and he said well you know jason

1:08:59

you know hope is not a plan let's make a plan

1:09:01

on let's discuss you know the milestones along

1:09:03

here and it was amazing to have that

1:09:06

level of lawfulness around total revision

1:09:08

as a founder i love it i mean as as

1:09:10

the founder i love giving advice about the you gotta

1:09:12

be really dumb lots of seek it out i mean i

1:09:14

when i was a founder i would even though i was sort

1:09:16

of competing with any of our be referred then i would

1:09:18

like at amazing to

1:09:20

just recently we did it wasn't

1:09:23

like an official board meeting because prof isn't

1:09:25

on our board with he's a big investor

1:09:27

what am i intubation oh

1:09:31

and we just had a meeting with an ad

1:09:33

and kinda , it an

1:09:35

average on thousand dollars with all

1:09:37

and but now we are

1:09:39

trademark it was it was me and our

1:09:41

soldiers the across an owl and an

1:09:44

and and off we have like mm that

1:09:46

amazing meeting where we got quite

1:09:49

i'd say amazing advice wrong that

1:09:51

why focus on it

1:09:53

wasn't that i didn't know these things but

1:09:55

it's just like when you're in the weeds sometimes you're

1:09:57

actually for slice or focus on the most important

1:10:00

the then i came out i mean meeting

1:10:02

really like okay roll off to refocus

1:10:04

does on the most important thing and

1:10:06

it was immensely valuable and you've got to be like don

1:10:09

knotts of secret out no matter what stage

1:10:11

right the i think it out today indigo

1:10:14

understated you're in the thick of things

1:10:16

these aren't squares board he's on

1:10:19

other boards she's got a picture of the

1:10:21

entire playing field it's like somebody who's the

1:10:23

coach of fifteen and be a the

1:10:25

team you're like the coach of

1:10:27

one the seeing things on other and

1:10:30

be a teams that they're doing and methodology

1:10:32

is and best practices that you're just not going to see

1:10:34

though i mean again and then if you look

1:10:36

at the grey founders ck used to come

1:10:38

to me and say there you

1:10:40

know this is a thing i'm gonna be doing up in export meeting

1:10:43

or here's the thing can we jam out the

1:10:45

new that's where a jam session he came up with that term

1:10:47

and

1:10:48

we're for people get together and just jam and talk

1:10:50

for five hours about the product it was awesome

1:10:52

let go on to idea of it's

1:10:54

axis favorite section

1:10:56

of the show

1:10:58

science with the sultan of science

1:11:00

him so what are you going to say

1:11:02

afraid of barbara oh

1:11:04

from enough with the who a

1:11:07

lot dollars access road riding you

1:11:09

have to you if you are engaged

1:11:11

in the science segments assassins

1:11:14

easier in a fight or in the summer it's here's

1:11:16

the deal is david sachs is engaged

1:11:18

during the science portion of the class we

1:11:20

will not have a high as

1:11:23

these as these as teacher your tell us a little bit

1:11:25

about stem cells and ah this

1:11:27

hiv sorry i'll get to tell fact that the

1:11:29

that the is round

1:11:31

it's not black hair vs

1:11:33

on how does that have sex lana a

1:11:36

story that i think we wanted you got one

1:11:38

of the cover today with the hiv story which

1:11:41

incredible yeah i suggested this topic

1:11:44

so i'm interested slanted us

1:11:46

hiv is a retrovirus meaning

1:11:48

once you get an effect did it doesn't go away

1:11:51

he , care if he's a really weird

1:11:54

better opportunity muda you

1:11:56

eat flipping through his politico notes

1:11:58

to figure out what did he miss image posts to say

1:12:00

that i need to know , about shapiro

1:12:03

i still have some of the thought of of

1:12:05

to jordan peterson and sam harris

1:12:07

and conversation glad conversation the

1:12:10

the hiv being cured headline

1:12:13

you know we can dive into it for two minutes but hiv

1:12:15

the retrovirus when you get infected with hiv

1:12:17

with stays in your body forever it

1:12:19

actually as of living inside of your immune cells

1:12:21

that's what makes it such an interesting challenge

1:12:24

and virus the editor

1:12:26

destroyed so the mean south overtime you end

1:12:28

up getting a the way it enters the

1:12:30

me and silva through specific protein

1:12:33

some people have a genetic mutation

1:12:35

where if the there's a change in the

1:12:38

their dna enough protein is different

1:12:40

he says you cannot enter their immune cells and they

1:12:42

can act so they are naturally immune hiv

1:12:45

the about

1:12:47

and so what's happened is i'm

1:12:49

i'm found apparently in why

1:12:52

northern european yeah like norwegians

1:12:54

i say he didn't shouts at the end

1:12:57

anyway so what would serve the interesting

1:12:59

study that was done all

1:13:01

immune cells are made power from stem

1:13:03

cells in your bone marrow and so

1:13:05

you know all the white blood cells that we have the fight off

1:13:08

our diseases come from our bone marrow and

1:13:10

the when you get a blood

1:13:12

cancer sometimes you end up getting

1:13:14

so severe that you have to actually wipe

1:13:16

out all be yourself and

1:13:18

your body

1:13:19

and give your and you end up with a a bone

1:13:21

marrow transplants you get new bone marrow put

1:13:23

in your new blocks else hopefully

1:13:26

if you can survive the therapy a survive that treatment

1:13:29

those know that new bone marrow will produce

1:13:31

new immune cells in your body will recover and

1:13:33

you'll be cured of your blood cancer know

1:13:36

what happened if people had hiv

1:13:39

and when you get this a this bone marrow transplant

1:13:41

you end up you know they they give you radiation and chemo

1:13:43

and they wipe out all your blood cells

1:13:45

the ender any give

1:13:47

you the bone marrow transplants so they select

1:13:49

simply chose the

1:13:52

a bone marrow stem cells that

1:13:54

came from people that have the i'd

1:13:56

the genetic mutation that there

1:13:58

are that prevent hiv the the then when

1:14:00

these hiv patients that got blood

1:14:03

cancer got a bone marrow transplant

1:14:05

with this mutation in it

1:14:06

they were cured of hiv and so

1:14:09

it's a pretty profound

1:14:10

kind a demonstration of what we already

1:14:12

knew which is that this genetic mutation

1:14:15

can

1:14:16

it can prevent hiv and

1:14:18

there are a lot of therapy that are underway

1:14:20

right now

1:14:22

the actually i used gene

1:14:24

editing or to induce

1:14:26

that mutation in people's our blood

1:14:29

cells in their bone marrow without needing it

1:14:31

to give them all the the

1:14:33

first guy that did is the first i did it

1:14:35

was german right for he was in germany

1:14:37

i think and he unfortunately persuade

1:14:40

the cure disease cure disease aids

1:14:43

but he or unforeseen either

1:14:45

relax of the leukemia that killed and but

1:14:47

i think all three cases of people that that

1:14:51

it is coracle cured have

1:14:54

have been these leukemia patients sausage suit

1:14:56

a few things about the future of this kind

1:14:58

of possibility number one is you don't

1:15:00

need to get a bone marrow transplant to

1:15:02

have this mutation

1:15:05

in you

1:15:06

in your cells to prevent this infection

1:15:08

from a kind of occurring in your body you

1:15:10

can use gene editing tools to do that and

1:15:12

so we are now developing gita and a therapies

1:15:14

were rather than go and get a whole bone marrow transplant

1:15:17

the cure your hiv we can actually edit yourself

1:15:20

those edited cells will now be resistance and you

1:15:22

will be resolved of hiv the second thing

1:15:24

is the way that they gave people the bone marrow transplant

1:15:26

the way they created or stem cell for the bone marrow transplants

1:15:29

with from the local court of a

1:15:31

blood from a from newborns

1:15:33

hooters very rich in stem cell this

1:15:36

is a traditional way of kind of giving people from

1:15:38

cell based therapies as you go and source themselves

1:15:41

on another body or your own body was

1:15:43

they're called autologous himself but like i

1:15:45

want to say one thing was really interesting and the future

1:15:48

is not going to be about pulling other people

1:15:50

stem cells had your body and finding them

1:15:52

from in a fetal blood or what have you we

1:15:54

now have the technology which i've talked about multiple

1:15:57

times on the show called yamanaka factors the

1:15:59

here we we can take yourself

1:16:02

from your own body her name into

1:16:04

stem cells grow them in a lab

1:16:06

and use that as the therapy that's

1:16:08

called autologous stem cell therapy and

1:16:10

residue stem cells are trying to find them sort

1:16:13

of figured out where they are in your body pull him out

1:16:15

we can actually do stem cells everybody that's

1:16:17

like fifteen years out his

1:16:19

arm

1:16:20

what tali get into stem cell therapy

1:16:22

we actually make your own stem cells and then

1:16:24

give yourself all sorts of therapy lots of bone marrow

1:16:26

transplants would you can heal lots of tissue

1:16:29

in the body using these themselves essence

1:16:31

we don't really hear about hiv aids anymore

1:16:33

i in that article i think it said that there is about

1:16:35

thirty seven million people around the world that have

1:16:37

hiv aids and it's incredible

1:16:39

i see the amount of progress of science has made in this

1:16:42

disease i remember when i was growing up

1:16:44

it was made

1:16:45

to be like this incredible boogie

1:16:48

man yeah and ,

1:16:50

really governed like a lot of social

1:16:52

norms at the time because we were still discovering

1:16:54

what hiv aids was and you know how

1:16:57

you know how do you think about sexual promiscuity

1:17:00

you know from a moral and ethical perspective

1:17:03

on perspective think it had think it impact on my generation

1:17:05

family again it was a death sentence

1:17:08

say they made us paranoid so here's

1:17:10

what happened therapies have gotten so good

1:17:12

at ces over suppressing the virus is

1:17:15

the virus is suppressed are not even though you

1:17:17

are always going to be affected if it's suppress

1:17:19

foreigner the wha on the of the above

1:17:21

said you could still have unprotected

1:17:23

sex and not transmitter hiv and

1:17:26

so even though there are plenty of people out there that might

1:17:28

be having unprotected sex with it's idea

1:17:30

of the therapies have suppressed the viral

1:17:33

load to the point that they're not transmitting

1:17:35

it actively it's not a big breakthrough in find

1:17:37

something like that there were many also had this propels

1:17:39

right which people could say pro athletes are they

1:17:41

thought they might

1:17:43

they find themselves but i mean some of you and i live

1:17:45

in a generation where i mean does

1:17:47

our society it was the end of thanks

1:17:49

yeah well i mean it was the end of days and they're

1:17:51

like

1:17:52

that are a lot it is it was a singles

1:17:54

bigger thing that i was that i was taught in sex

1:17:56

ed classes to be afraid the be aired

1:18:00

all hot and in a problem that is that it

1:18:02

created was like he you know in countries that

1:18:04

had a large catholic population you

1:18:07

know the catholic church was so you know

1:18:10

the evil if they were undecided

1:18:12

on not directly opposite

1:18:14

right side they told people in africa to not

1:18:16

use condoms

1:18:18

when he was rampant

1:18:20

it was the biggest evil second

1:18:22

biggest evil the catholic church that in modern history

1:18:25

of his first we know either contributions

1:18:27

to the site or got your what you're

1:18:30

, i know know

1:18:32

know i'd supremacy it's you're married my

1:18:34

eyes relationship look i remember how scare

1:18:36

people were of aids near

1:18:38

back in the mighty eighties when this came

1:18:40

up and i remember that there

1:18:43

was a head of the nih who even

1:18:45

with to people's fear hold on fear

1:18:48

i say moving a house or

1:18:50

even casual contact with and

1:18:52

now sold then spread it

1:18:55

the other than having an age you are i'm twenty

1:18:57

thousand lives and i was worth yes

1:18:59

we know how to allocate his life

1:19:02

who trying to solve and reduce

1:19:04

the suffering of saw for aids and hiv

1:19:06

know in the nineteen eighties in an idea

1:19:08

weekly was the face of government difference

1:19:10

towards a said he spread fear

1:19:12

and was medically wrong about it to check

1:19:14

the records he was a screw

1:19:16

other than any minister ali now on

1:19:19

it he worked tirelessly worked tirelessly

1:19:21

on it to the ice axes

1:19:23

right in the sense that like what we thought we

1:19:25

knew back then turned out to be wrong and i think that's

1:19:27

really important point

1:19:29

particularly in science is a process

1:19:31

of discovery what we thought we

1:19:33

knew back then turned out to it was all a hypothesis

1:19:35

it's all a thesis until it's proven or disproven

1:19:38

and that's the case read and read andrew

1:19:40

sullivan i mean you know how

1:19:42

to be was absolutely the enemy

1:19:44

public enemy number one of the of

1:19:47

the game of member who's a tony critter

1:19:49

tony jones or global

1:19:51

it was a twenty percent or twenty four concert there was

1:19:53

actually debate the fallacy was an on

1:19:56

aides were aides gay actress literally so

1:19:58

damn i hate you the you read

1:20:00

and her solvents blog you will talk about our

1:20:02

he remembers back about ladies that

1:20:04

darcy was sort of public enemy number one

1:20:06

in the gay community because of

1:20:09

his position on this during the reagan administration

1:20:11

and so it is a lot of civil disobedience

1:20:14

act advocates member to be so and see

1:20:16

responded by putting massive resources

1:20:18

into this so i mean you know if

1:20:21

if he was that's my resume and listen

1:20:23

and resolve and on the andrew

1:20:25

, of he has another right right off with

1:20:27

andrew sullivan is the reason why more

1:20:30

than any other public intellectual why we

1:20:32

have marriage or paul the today he is

1:20:34

number one he advocated from vermeer

1:20:36

to call the and in the new republic made

1:20:38

the case for it before anybody else and papa

1:20:40

was that are now i'm a fan of his writing with

1:20:43

my to don't try for terms of far right where

1:20:45

whenever it for trace out your you're going

1:20:47

to parties intent anyone to believe

1:20:49

that parties an evil person as

1:20:51

you and many other people have mysteriously forgotten

1:20:54

to start she really is

1:20:56

the you doing for i know either conspiracy the getting fouled

1:20:58

she's intent is to

1:21:00

cover up the i maybe he doesn't

1:21:02

he intentionally was working against

1:21:05

ah saw the for hiv that at it was

1:21:07

as big as a lawyer during southsea

1:21:09

good intentions games you inferred as

1:21:11

active in south she had good intentions i don't

1:21:13

i don't really care about sometimes muzzle loaders

1:21:16

action with this amazing it's amazing

1:21:18

what about it's amazing to me that

1:21:21

a public official who

1:21:23

was so wrong

1:21:25

that man in an agonizing nineties

1:21:28

on the public outcry swear times

1:21:30

would just be given a free pass and along

1:21:32

comes a new public health crisis last couple years

1:21:34

or isn't completely wrong about that too

1:21:36

the why are you doing skies because i get it

1:21:39

he succeeded in a cloud of uncertainty

1:21:41

in a time of war the you think

1:21:43

that leaders need to show strong intent

1:21:46

and clear signals or do you think that they should be wishy

1:21:48

washy because they don't know i

1:21:51

think i should be right

1:21:53

if they're trying to best with what they have with the information

1:21:55

may have at the time but that's okay

1:21:57

well you there's some forgiveness for

1:22:00

a for making mistakes but when you're constantly

1:22:02

wrong maybe it's time to get somebody else in there nothing

1:22:05

and been through she by the way found she

1:22:07

act with respect to cope we talked about it before

1:22:09

one hundred percent participated

1:22:11

in a suppression the already

1:22:14

investigations the origins of covert there

1:22:16

was an active attempt to suppress that come

1:22:18

on you know that of the for your

1:22:20

emails show it

1:22:23

the good side segment of

1:22:26

i do want to give a shoutout to the the

1:22:29

researchers saw as who actually

1:22:31

did this with this woman sat in new york

1:22:33

it's please

1:22:34

integrate what's incredible as they did it was

1:22:36

some hiv patients who

1:22:38

had blood cancer and it was a really kind of like

1:22:40

thoughtfully designed experiment incredibly

1:22:43

buff of yeah it's been four years so i mean

1:22:45

this has been speaking for a long flight away as

1:22:47

as i zoom out and here's you guys talk about what hiv

1:22:49

was like you know back in the day and the fear

1:22:51

rounded i do think that thirty forty

1:22:53

years from as given the tools we have with

1:22:55

induced stem cells and cell based

1:22:58

therapies in there are hundreds to solve a therapy

1:23:00

coming to market over the next year's they're all and

1:23:02

least it's clinical trials as well as gene editing

1:23:04

i think hopefully i'm optimistic

1:23:06

that one day we will look back at cancer

1:23:08

an aging and the same way that we're talking about agenda

1:23:11

today and i both of those diseases

1:23:13

can and will be resolved with the tools that we're developing

1:23:16

through sire

1:23:17

you know there there's there's there's going to be bumps along the road

1:23:19

but man i have you know it's so clear that

1:23:21

is all sat scores i think

1:23:23

why they were free murder said actually is

1:23:25

really important and inspiring and

1:23:27

i think it's great and i was gonna jerking around forty

1:23:30

three i expected become a tangent so

1:23:32

i don't need to go out on get we

1:23:34

see him or i do you see him and editing

1:23:36

try to change his position on the

1:23:38

, negative on is that i didn't

1:23:41

do use of tried to tried some

1:23:44

so argumentative we went to spend five minutes on

1:23:46

it if i'm correct or incorrect

1:23:48

correct that recipes

1:23:50

because i got a five year of go okay here we go

1:23:52

david sacks and paul graham

1:23:54

have gotten into it it's

1:23:57

a battle for the ages and the states

1:23:59

are so lol the stakes are so

1:24:01

high that and the animosity is

1:24:03

so my because the stakes are so low here

1:24:06

we go earlier it before it way to

1:24:08

get it before this distill

1:24:10

, muse qualified this as a

1:24:12

billionaire battle of never quite

1:24:18

literally millionaire

1:24:21

if you follow so it's account it's being

1:24:23

account a greatest friend

1:24:26

us on twitter dehydrated

1:24:28

smooth to get ourselves novel

1:24:30

so hum youth how did he youth

1:24:33

on his twitter or that

1:24:35

his new billionaire best he is his

1:24:38

belt which he stole best for me i used to call really

1:24:40

best as he just collapsed

1:24:41

lucky co opted me calling from other decatur but

1:24:44

also the dictator orders or later

1:24:46

the family from door dash the

1:24:49

time the hundred you product officer

1:24:51

dirt as great as really

1:24:53

muckraking joe how muslims truffles

1:24:56

exactly because as an assistant for

1:24:58

keep our that okay here we go so

1:25:00

don't know some to paul graham though

1:25:02

as or your ears the us

1:25:04

is what's your be there we got actually

1:25:07

i did not seek out the spacex my

1:25:09

dad a section of the plumber allison

1:25:12

the eg waded into my tweets

1:25:14

he came after me i

1:25:18

, is lisa any noises other

1:25:20

one i like the base like i'm way the it's my tweets

1:25:22

mark cuban didn't make themselves

1:25:26

i don't want to sort of these guys some from waiting

1:25:28

and transgress so safely

1:25:30

out and i sweden's safely

1:25:32

video of all these multi

1:25:34

millionaire celebrity hypocrites parties

1:25:37

massless of the superbowl and i mean

1:25:39

all the next day my three kids have to

1:25:41

go to school in california wearing

1:25:43

a mask that is ridiculous

1:25:47

okay it makes no sense

1:25:50

we all know that okay any

1:25:52

sane person those that that's right sweden

1:25:54

about i don't know why of all

1:25:56

issues that was true you're in a bj but he had

1:25:58

to come in as they walk all parting

1:26:00

outdoors like really ah

1:26:03

it looks to me like you're in a sky box in for those

1:26:05

three walls and ceiling i call that a room don't

1:26:08

have any about that was he

1:26:10

was he was misinformed because

1:26:13

the rules the superbowl was that if you're not

1:26:15

eating and drinking anyone under over

1:26:17

the age of to actually wearing actually mask also

1:26:20

you know my point stands i just want to

1:26:22

air so here is here's where things went

1:26:25

south is bomb is

1:26:27

so that i tweeted going twice

1:26:30

bob and , jersey

1:26:32

i wasn't totally trying to be snarky with that comment

1:26:36

comment here's why i said that is because you swing

1:26:38

was i mean i don't understand that wouldn't be blink twice

1:26:40

pull me aside me ,

1:26:43

you're being how kidnapped by these concepts

1:26:45

that you have to wear a mayor know you're being held hostage by

1:26:48

somebody in there and the reason why so that is

1:26:50

because his his book as if a p

1:26:52

g has been some crazy dumpers

1:26:54

i never would have said that the fact is a pg

1:26:56

is smart he writes

1:26:58

extremely well published lot of interesting things

1:27:01

he's independent thinker so

1:27:03

it almost seems to me like somebody is holding them

1:27:05

hostage here because after this really smart

1:27:07

person the making this case anyway

1:27:11

once out from there though

1:27:14

i have no desire to activity that meanwhile

1:27:17

, jenner more ne suis

1:27:20

as is justin bieber the the

1:27:22

can you see knows that

1:27:25

doesn't happen or essays how did he do

1:27:27

that also gossip do

1:27:28

all right so this has been sachs is

1:27:31

that learner for the week

1:27:33

a and for oklahoma historical a segment but

1:27:37

it's , going to the corner want

1:27:39

to say i want to stay on the main issue here which

1:27:41

is oh so please let's do it

1:27:43

every week but what am

1:27:46

i wrong about this mask hypocrisy

1:27:49

that's going on how in the world or

1:27:52

picture of sacks in the mask no no no mask it's

1:27:54

actually called stop want it's

1:27:56

era one hundred per cent support for that understatement

1:27:58

i totally agree with you on the

1:28:00

a biography as well as the math mandates in

1:28:02

schools i think it's ridiculous within

1:28:04

minutes we pivoted so far away

1:28:06

from first principle thinking on the stuff it's

1:28:08

not i totally agree with you completely

1:28:11

and i'm on this point on

1:28:13

you're wasting your time fighting with people on twitter

1:28:15

my personal advice use different sort it out

1:28:17

but soon as a buddy

1:28:20

totally agree also entertainment or

1:28:22

it everybody for the dictator himself

1:28:24

to mask poly hop a t

1:28:27

the rain man yeah david

1:28:29

sacks and

1:28:31

the sultan of sides if you see

1:28:34

him out and about as for a selfish

1:28:36

sultan of science love celsius who does

1:28:38

lovely voice by next

1:28:41

time on the all and pod bad

1:28:43

news or bad

1:28:53

we have a source

1:29:13

of

1:29:28

yeah