0:00

Hi, this is Lindsay Graham, host of

0:02

American Scandal. Our back catalog has

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moved behind a paywall. Recent episodes

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remain free, but older ones will

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require a Wondery Plus subscription. With

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Wondery Plus, you get access to

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the full American Scandal Archive, add

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free, plus early access to new

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seasons and more. Join Wondery Plus

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in the Wondery app or on

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Apple Podcasts. It's

0:35

September 2nd, 1958. Dan Enright, producer

0:38

of the hit TV quiz show

0:40

21, steps out of a taxi

0:42

in front of the Biltmore Hotel

0:44

in Manhattan. He straightens his opels

0:46

as he climbs the front steps,

0:48

making his way toward a conference

0:50

room inside. It's been two weeks

0:52

since rumors of a scandal began

0:54

to shake the entire quiz show

0:56

industry. When the wildly popular show

0:58

Dotto was abruptly canceled with no

1:01

explanation from the network, news outlets

1:03

began digging into the case, and

1:05

before long they discovered that the

1:08

show was being investigated by the

1:10

FCC for allegedly being rigged in

1:12

favor of certain contestants. Now the

1:15

Manhattan District Attorney's Office is looking

1:17

into other quiz shows facing similar

1:19

allegations, including those made by former

1:22

21 champion Herbert Stemple. Stemple is

1:24

publicly accusing Enright of supplying answers

1:26

to both himself and another

1:28

champion Charles Van Doren. But as

1:31

Enright waits for the DA's investigation

1:33

to play out, he's well prepared

1:35

to battle Stemple in the court

1:37

of public opinion. Enright has two

1:39

pieces of evidence up his sleeve,

1:41

a signed letter from Stemple stating

1:43

that he never received any quiz

1:45

question answers. and a secret recording

1:47

from a meeting between Stemple and

1:49

Enright, where a seemingly unhinged Stemple

1:51

admits to multiple crimes. Enright hoped

1:53

he would never have to use

1:55

these, but Stemple has forced his

1:57

hand, and now he's going to

1:59

reveal them... publicly for the first time.

2:01

Enright swings open the doors of the

2:03

conference room and walks past the gaggle

2:05

of reporters to a table at the

2:08

front of the room, where his business

2:10

partner, 21 host Jack Barry, is seated

2:12

with a real-to-real tape machine ready to

2:14

begin. Enright takes a seat next

2:16

to Barry and begins reading Stemple's

2:18

signed letter. He doesn't reveal that

2:20

the statement is completely false. That

2:22

he forced Stemple into writing it

2:24

with promises of future work and

2:26

TV. Then, when Enright is finished

2:28

with the letter, he switches on

2:31

the tape machine. As it plays,

2:33

he watches the stunned faces

2:35

of the reporters in the

2:37

room, as they listen to

2:39

Stemple's voice describing how he's

2:41

been consumed by jealousy of

2:43

Van Doran, his tale of

2:45

squandering his prize money by

2:48

investing in an illegal gambling

2:50

operation, and even his

2:52

previous attempts to blackmail Enright. and

2:54

turns to the reporters. Well, I believe

2:57

this letter and tape speak for themselves,

2:59

but I'm happy to take any questions.

3:01

Yeah, Mr. Enright, why did you wait

3:04

18 months to report Herb Stemple's apparent

3:06

blackmail attempt? My intention was to report

3:08

reported reported immediately, but I was advised

3:11

against doing so by my press agent.

3:13

He was afraid that even the mere

3:15

accusation of collusion would cause the show

3:17

to be canceled. Well, Mr. Enright, whether

3:20

or not there was any funny business

3:22

behind the suspicion over you and

3:24

Mr. and Mr. Barry. Will you

3:26

step down from your roles on

3:28

the show at least temporarily to

3:30

ensure the public's trust in the

3:32

program? I feel comfortable speaking for

3:35

myself and Jack when I say

3:37

that that's never going to happen.

3:39

Frankly, if anyone's going to step

3:41

down, it should be the reporters

3:43

who've been blindly repeating Stemple's claims

3:45

without a shred of evidence. Did

3:47

you have any ethical qualms about

3:49

secretly recording Mr. Stemple? About playing

3:51

it publicly? He appears to be

3:53

speaking openly openly with you. Taping

3:56

people is not something I go

3:58

around doing normally, no, but... but

4:00

he put me in a terrible

4:02

spot with this scheme. I felt

4:04

my back was against the wall,

4:06

and I never would have played

4:08

it publicly, for sure, but Mr.

4:10

Stemple is the one who decided

4:12

to attack me in the press.

4:14

I have no choice but to

4:16

defend myself. You should ask him

4:18

about the ethics of trying to

4:20

blackmail someone who was really only

4:23

trying to help him. These psychological

4:25

issues Stemple talks about on the

4:27

tape, did you ever since they

4:29

were present during his time on

4:31

the show? But if I'm being

4:33

honest, he was a bit of

4:35

an odd duck. Frankly, I found

4:37

his eccentricities endearing, and I hope

4:39

the audience would as well. And

4:41

I got to know Herb and

4:43

his wife, and it really came

4:45

to see him as a friend.

4:47

That's what's so heartbreaking about this

4:49

mess. I guess I was just

4:51

naive. I overlooked the darker elements

4:54

of his soul. That's my only

4:56

regret in this whole situation. Right

4:58

from the start, Barry had expressed

5:00

doubts about Enright's whole rigging scheme

5:02

and asked to be kept out

5:04

of it. He had warned Enright

5:06

of this exact scenario eventually playing

5:08

out, a disgruntled contestant trying to

5:10

expose the show. But as far

5:12

as Enright is concerned, they've just

5:14

dodged a bullet. As long as

5:16

the other contestants remain quiet, he's

5:18

optimistic he'll be able to salvage

5:20

his career and his hit show.

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5:56

One. By

6:52

the summer of 1958, the TV

6:54

quiz show Crais had reached its

6:56

peak, with dozens of shows appearing

6:58

on the air, many of them

7:01

among the most watched on television.

7:03

But even as it dominated the

7:05

airwaves, the entire quiz show genre

7:07

was facing an existential threat. Allegations

7:09

that some shows were rigged were

7:11

making headlines, as the public and

7:13

the press became fixated on the

7:15

growing scandal. And while the show's

7:17

producers scrambled to protect themselves, investigators

7:19

inside the Manhattan District Attorney's Office

7:21

tried to separate fact-from fiction until

7:24

one contestant came forward with proof

7:26

that could not be ignored, forcing

7:28

TV quiz shows most famous champion

7:30

to make an agonizing choice. This

7:32

is episode 4, Deception. Assistant District

7:34

Attorney Joseph Stone is seated at

7:36

the desk of his office, looking

7:38

over a handful of documents in

7:40

preparation for a meeting with quiz

7:42

show whistleblower Herbert Stemple. In the

7:45

past week, Stone has interviewed Stemple

7:47

several times, and on every one

7:49

of these occasions, Stone has found

7:51

him sober and credible. But then

7:53

just yesterday, 21 producer Dan Enright

7:55

held a press conference where he

7:57

not only vigorously denied Stemple's allegations,

7:59

but presented hard evidence to make

8:01

his case. Stone has heard the

8:03

tape, and it's left him with

8:05

doubts about whether Stemple can be

8:08

trusted. If he can't, then Stone

8:10

will have to decide whether his

8:12

investigation into 21 is worth pursuing

8:14

any further. But before that happens,

8:16

he wants to give Stemple the

8:18

opportunity to explain himself. Stone's secretary

8:20

buzzes him over the intercom, announcing

8:22

that Stemple has arrived. Stone in

8:24

structure to show Stemple in. As

8:26

soon as Stemple takes a seat,

8:28

Stone presses play on the reel-to-reel

8:31

tape machine sitting on his desk.

8:33

The room fills with a grainy

8:35

sound of the now infamous Enright

8:37

recording, on which Stemple admits to

8:39

attempting to blackmail the producer, and

8:41

also says he invested a large

8:43

chunk of his prize money into

8:45

a Florida gambling scheme. When the

8:47

tape finishes, Stone asks for Stemple's

8:49

response, And immediately Stemple goes on

8:52

the defensive. He says the tape

8:54

is highly edited, and that Enright

8:56

cut out the parts with the

8:58

producer admitted to scripting the outcomes

9:00

of matches on 21. He reminds

9:02

Stone that Enright was a long-time

9:04

radio producer and certainly knows his

9:06

way around a tape machine well

9:08

enough to cut and splice portions

9:10

together. Stone concedes this point and

9:12

says he already suspected the tape

9:15

was manipulated. But even so, Stemple

9:17

has questions to answer about his

9:19

extortion scheme. Then, to Stone's surprise,

9:21

Stemple admits to everything. He explains

9:23

that he was feeling desperate. He

9:25

was bitter about being eclipsed by

9:27

Charles Van Doren, and he made

9:29

a terrible mistake. But Stemple insists

9:31

that his story about Enright rigging

9:33

21 is still 100% true. Stone

9:35

sits back in his chair and

9:38

puts his hands on his head.

9:40

He wasn't expecting a confession from

9:42

Stemple today, but he seems genuine.

9:44

Stone then leans forward. and tells

9:46

Stemple he has no idea who

9:48

to believe at this point. While

9:50

he's inclined to accept Stemple's account,

9:52

went on behind the scenes, right

9:54

now it's just Stemple's word against

9:56

Enright's, and Enright is the only

9:58

one who's come forward with corroborating

10:01

evidence. Unless Stemple can do the

10:03

same, Stone's investigation doesn't have enough

10:05

to go on. Then, as if

10:07

waiting for the opportunity, Stemple explains

10:09

that he might be able to

10:11

produce some evidence. He says that

10:13

on 21, the returning champion is

10:15

forced to risk a portion of

10:17

their winnings when facing a new

10:19

challenger. So when the contestant finally

10:22

loses, a good chunk of their

10:24

winnings is handed over to the

10:26

player who defeated them, for that

10:28

reason, it's impossible to say how

10:30

much a champion will be paid

10:32

out until they're off the show.

10:34

However, in Stemple's case, he was

10:36

paid out several times while he

10:38

was still competing on the show.

10:40

He says there's no way Enright

10:42

would pay him tens of thousands

10:45

of dollars in advance if the

10:47

producer had no idea what the

10:49

final tally would be. The only

10:51

explanation is that Enright was sure

10:53

that Stemple would win. The only

10:55

way Enright could be so confident

10:57

is if he were giving Stemple

10:59

the answers. Stone's eyes grow wide

11:01

as he listens. This is certainly

11:03

something worth exploring. And Stemple goes

11:05

on, reasoning that he wasn't likely

11:08

the only player being paid in

11:10

advance. Enright almost certainly did the

11:12

same with other contestants. In fact,

11:14

Stemple says... If Stone can get

11:16

his hands on all of 21's

11:18

payroll records and compare the dates

11:20

to when each champion was eliminated

11:22

from the show, he might be

11:24

able to prove Stemple's claim. Stone

11:26

smiles and tells Stemple he might

11:29

be onto something. For now, he'll

11:31

keep the investigation open. And once

11:33

he gets his hands on those

11:35

payroll documents, who knows how big

11:37

this investigation could get? Prosecutor Joseph

11:39

Stone reaches out to Dan Enright's

11:41

lawyer, asking for 21's payroll records.

11:43

But Enright's lawyer is slow to

11:45

hand them over, offering a series

11:47

of excuses that further aroused Stone's

11:49

suspicions. Then, just days later, yet

11:52

another quiz shows... comes under fire.

11:54

On September 6th, 1958, a former

11:56

contestant on the $64,000 challenge, spin-off

11:58

show to the $64,000 question publicly

12:00

accuses the show's producers of colluding

12:02

with contestants. With mounting evidence of

12:04

widespread fraud across several quiz shows

12:06

and public interest growing by the

12:08

day, Stone and his boss District

12:10

Attorney Frank Hogan decided to press

12:12

forward with full force. On September

12:15

12th, 1958. Hogan announces he's forming

12:17

a grand jury to look into

12:19

the matter. That same day, the

12:21

$64,000 challenge is pulled from the

12:23

air. Still, Dan Enright's 21 stubbornly

12:25

presses forward. Host Jack Barry even

12:27

opens one episode with a message

12:29

to the audience, denying all allegations.

12:31

But behind the scenes, the show's

12:33

biggest champion of all, Charles Van

12:35

Doren, is starting to get nervous.

12:38

He left 21 18 months ago,

12:40

and since then, his star has

12:42

only continued to rise. He's dated

12:44

celebrities and taken a job co-hosting

12:46

the Today Show while continuing to

12:48

teach at Columbia. Well, for the

12:50

past few weeks, as stories about

12:52

collusion spread, Van Dorn has felt

12:54

like he's under a cloud of

12:56

suspicion. And he's fearful that if

12:59

the truth comes to light, he'll

13:01

lose both of his careers and

13:03

embarrass his family. So when 21

13:05

producer Albert Friedman calls and invites

13:07

him to lunch one September morning,

13:09

Bandorn is eager to hear what

13:11

he has to say. Around noon

13:13

that day, Bandorn arrives at an

13:15

upscale Manhattan restaurant. He scans the

13:17

patrons and sees Friedman sitting at

13:19

a table near the back. Then

13:22

he makes his way over. Albert,

13:24

good to see you. You too.

13:26

I just wish you was under

13:28

better circumstances. Yes, Stample seems to

13:30

have a real ax to cry.

13:32

It's taking a lot of shots

13:34

at me personally, and I've been

13:36

tempted to defend myself, but I

13:38

didn't want to bring any further

13:40

attention to this story. Well, you're

13:42

a smart man. I do have

13:45

to ask, though, how bad do

13:47

you think it'll get? Well, we're

13:49

winning so far. The press thinks

13:51

Stemple is a nut and NBC

13:53

is still in our corner. But

13:55

we're not exactly out of the

13:57

woods yet. I just heard from

13:59

the district attorney this morning. He

14:01

wants me to come in for

14:03

a talk. A talk. Well, that's

14:05

a bit concerning. What are you

14:08

going to say? I'm going to

14:10

tell him that Stemple is a

14:12

con man. His story is pure

14:14

baloney. They've got nothing on us.

14:16

But the only people who know

14:18

what happened are me and Dan

14:20

and Dan Enright and Dan Enright

14:22

and we're not talking. You think

14:24

the DA will bring me in?

14:26

Well, it wouldn't shock me. But

14:29

like I said, they have no

14:31

evidence. You just need to stick

14:33

to the story. You won the

14:35

games, fair and square, and you

14:37

have no idea what Stemple is

14:39

talking about. You played the role

14:41

of trivia genius perfectly for three

14:43

months on the show. Now all

14:45

you have to do is play

14:47

the role one more time. Well,

14:49

playing a part on TV is

14:52

one thing, but the DA is

14:54

a bit different, don't you think?

14:56

If you tell the DA about

14:58

what happened behind the scenes, it's

15:00

bound to leak. Our careers would

15:02

be finished. Not just mine and

15:04

dance, but probably yours too. I

15:06

can't imagine your bosses at NBC

15:08

or Columbia would be too pleased,

15:10

for example. Yes, I imagine you're

15:12

right about that. So Charles, look,

15:15

I need you to be a

15:17

team player. Stick to the story.

15:19

I swear this will all blow

15:21

over. He's not sure what to

15:23

do. When he first agreed to

15:25

appear on 21, he never imagined

15:27

it would lead to this, being

15:29

pressured to lie to a state

15:31

prosecutor? If he somehow folds under

15:33

pressure, his entire life as he

15:36

knows it would be over. But

15:38

what Friedman said is right. There

15:40

are only a few people in

15:42

the world who know the truth,

15:44

and if the others are sticking

15:46

to their story, then maybe the

15:48

easiest way out of this mess

15:50

is to do the same. As

15:56

Albert Friedman continues working to keep

15:58

Van Doren, another contestant, quiet. The

16:00

district attorney's investigation pushes forward. And

16:02

on September 18th, 1958, they begin

16:04

presenting evidence to the grand jury

16:06

in the case against quiz show

16:08

Donna and announced they'll also be

16:11

looking into a growing number of

16:13

other quiz shows including 21, the

16:15

$64,000 question, and the $64,000 challenge.

16:17

Outside the courtroom, Assistant D.A. Joseph

16:19

Stone continues building each case by

16:21

calling in a steady stream of

16:23

contestants and producers from each of

16:26

these shows. and then on September

16:28

23rd, 1958, he makes a pivotal

16:30

breakthrough. That day, Stone calls Friedman

16:32

into his office for an interview.

16:34

Friedman arrives with his lawyer, Myron

16:36

Green. Stone invites the men to

16:38

have a seat, and he opens

16:41

the interview by asking the producer

16:43

about his role on 21. Friedman

16:45

explains that he's responsible for screening

16:47

contestants and preparing them for their

16:49

appearance on air. But he unequivocally

16:51

denies ever supplying Charles Van Doren

16:53

or any other contestant with answers.

16:56

As Stone listens, he studies Friedman's

16:58

words and demeanor closely. He finds

17:00

the producer to be polite and

17:02

articulate, and not coming across as

17:04

a man who's hiding something. But

17:06

Justice Stone prepares to drill down

17:08

with more specific questions, there's a

17:11

knock at the door, and he's

17:13

pulled from the room by a

17:15

colleague. When he steps into the

17:17

hallway, the contestant explains that James

17:19

Snodgrass, a former contestant on 21,

17:21

has just arrived and is promising

17:23

a juicy story of his own.

17:25

So Stone peaks his head back

17:28

into the room with Friedman, excusing

17:30

himself for a moment and hints

17:32

down the hall to meet with

17:34

Snodgrass. Stone finds Snodgrass sitting with

17:36

his lawyer in a vacant office,

17:38

and the lawyer wastes no time

17:40

spelling out why his client is

17:43

here today. He gestures to three

17:45

envelopes on the desk. All three

17:47

are unopened. Certified mail sent from

17:49

Snodgrass to himself. Intrigued, Stone asks

17:51

what's inside. The lawyer explains that

17:53

before each of Snodgrass's appearance on

17:55

21, he was given the answer.

17:58

to that episode's questions by Albert

18:00

Friedman. Snograss thought that seemed odd

18:02

and decided to collect proof of

18:04

what was happening. So for three

18:06

straight weeks, he wrote out all

18:08

of the questions and answers and

18:10

mailed them in letters addressed to

18:13

himself sent via certified mail. They're

18:15

clearly postmarked with the date sent,

18:17

and in each case, several days

18:19

prior to that week's taping. He

18:21

even saved carbon copies of every

18:23

letter so Stone can review the

18:25

questions and answers before opening the

18:28

envelopes in court. Stone's eyes grow

18:30

wide as he grabs one of

18:32

the envelopes off the table. If

18:34

what the lawyer is saying is

18:36

true, then Stone will have irrefutable

18:38

physical evidence that 21 was rigged.

18:40

And there's yet another bombshell revelation.

18:43

The lawyer goes on to say

18:45

that just days ago, Friedman approached

18:47

Snodgrass and instructed him to deny

18:49

the collusion when interviewed by authorities.

18:51

Stone knows that in the room

18:53

down the hall, Friedman is still

18:55

sitting there waiting. He's blissfully unaware

18:58

that his denials about this scheme

19:00

have been proven to be lies,

19:02

or that he's just been implicated

19:04

in the crime of witness tampering.

19:06

This is a situation Stone can

19:08

take advantage of. So Stone thanks

19:10

Snodgrass for the information and instructs

19:13

a colleague to quietly usher Snodgrass

19:15

and his lawyer out the back

19:17

door, careful not to walk past

19:19

Friedman's room. When the coast is

19:21

clear, Stone heads back down the

19:23

hall to continue his meeting with

19:25

Friedman. He tries to stifle a

19:28

grin as he thinks about what

19:30

will come next, because he's going

19:32

to let Freeman keep line and

19:34

seal his own fate when he

19:36

testifies under oath to the grand

19:38

jury. In the early hours of

19:40

December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson

19:43

stepped out onto the streets of

19:45

Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing

19:47

at him. and the suspect. He

19:49

has been identified as Luigi Nicholas

19:51

Mangioni became one of the most

19:53

divisive figures in modern criminal history.

19:55

I was meant to sow terror.

19:58

He's invoking the people to a

20:00

true issue. Listen to Law and

20:02

Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.

20:04

You can join Wondery Plus in

20:06

the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple

20:08

Podcasts. In the early hours

20:10

of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian

20:13

Thompson stepped out onto the streets

20:15

of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls

20:17

out a weapon and starts firing

20:19

at him. We're talking about the

20:21

CEO of the biggest private health

20:23

insurance corporation in the world. And

20:26

the suspect. He has been identified

20:28

as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni, became one

20:30

of the most divisive figures in

20:32

modern criminal history. I was targeted,

20:34

premeditated, and meant to sow terror.

20:37

I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi,

20:39

produced by Law and Crime and

20:41

Twist. This is more than a

20:43

true crime investigation. We explore a

20:45

uniquely American moment that could change

20:48

the country forever. He's awoken the

20:50

people to a true issue. Finally, maybe

20:52

this would lead rich and powerful people

20:55

to acknowledge the barbaric nature of

20:57

our health care system. Listen to

20:59

Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively

21:01

on Wondery Plus. You can

21:03

join Wondery Plus in the

21:06

Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple

21:08

Podcasts. On

21:18

October 16th, 1958, with the New

21:21

York District Attorney's investigation garnering daily

21:23

headlines, NBC pulls 21 from the

21:25

air. Just a few weeks later,

21:28

the show that kicked off the

21:30

quiz show craze, the $64,000 question,

21:32

is also canceled. The grand jury

21:35

hearing stretched on for another

21:37

eight months. Over 200 witnesses

21:39

are called, including Herbert Stemple

21:41

and James Snodgrass, the whistle-blowing

21:43

contestants from 21. But producer

21:46

Dan Enright and host Jack

21:48

Barry refused to sign waivers

21:50

of immunity, a move comparable

21:52

to pleading the fifth, and

21:54

so cannot be forced to

21:56

testify. Still dozens of other

21:58

contestants in producer... Do choose

22:00

to testify and proceed to

22:02

lie on the stand, including

22:04

Albert Friedman and Charles Van

22:07

Dorn, completely unaware of the

22:09

evidence that James Snodgrass presented

22:11

to prosecutor Joseph Stone. So

22:13

in late October, 1958, Friedman is

22:15

indicted for perjury. Then several months

22:18

later, he has a change of

22:20

heart and asks to testify again.

22:22

This time, he comes clean about

22:24

supplying answers to contestants on 21.

22:26

And when the grand jury finally wraps

22:29

up in June of 1959, there is

22:31

hope among the public that they'll finally

22:33

learn the truth behind the quiz show

22:36

scandals. But when the grand jury presents

22:38

its report to Judge Mitchell Schweitzer, he

22:40

shocks the country by sealing it, shielding

22:43

the findings from public view. The judge cites

22:45

an obscure legal technicality, but

22:47

otherwise offers no explanation for

22:49

his decision. It's a devastating

22:51

result for prosecutor Joseph Stone,

22:54

who's devoted nine months of

22:56

his life building and presenting

22:58

the case. But soon after, Congress takes

23:00

an interest in the scandal, and

23:02

in July of 1959, an ambitious

23:04

young staffer named Richard Goodwin travels

23:06

to New York in hopes of

23:08

securing the sealed grand jury report.

23:10

That day, the 28-year-old Goodwin is

23:12

greeted at the courthouse by an

23:15

assistant from the district attorney's office

23:17

and then quickly ushered toward a

23:19

courtroom. Walking down the hall, Goodwin is

23:21

feeling way out of his death. Although he's

23:23

a graduate of Harvard Law School, he has

23:25

yet to pass the bar exam. But he

23:28

volunteered to spearhead this effort to retrieve

23:30

the sealed grand jury report, thinking

23:32

it'd be a good way to

23:34

distinguish himself. Upon reaching the courtroom,

23:36

the doors are thrown open, and Goodwin

23:38

is directed to the front of the

23:40

room, just as Judge Schweiser takes his

23:42

seat on the bench. The judge bangs

23:44

his gavel, and then begins reading through

23:46

formal legalese to begin the hearing. Goodwin

23:49

begins to wonder if he's bitten off

23:51

more than he can chew. Then Schweitzer

23:53

looks up and asks the room if

23:55

there are any emotions. Goodwin isn't sure

23:57

what to do, but a moment later

23:59

he feels feels the elbow of the

24:01

DA's assistant poking him in the

24:03

ribs. So Goodwin clears his throat

24:05

and begins to speak, trying to

24:07

cobble together an official sounding motion

24:09

as best he can. He declares

24:11

that on behalf of the House

24:13

Committee on Interstate Commerce, he requests

24:15

the release of the grand jury

24:17

records in question. Schweitzer quickly replies

24:20

that the motion is granted, Banks'

24:22

gavel, and adjourns the hearing. As

24:24

Goodwin stands frozen in silence, he

24:26

feels the assistant's arm around his

24:28

shoulder congratulating congratulating congratulating congratulating congratulating

24:30

him. Then, as the shock fades,

24:32

Goodwin realizes he'll be heading back

24:34

to Washington with the now unsealed

24:36

report. And just like that, the

24:38

quiz show investigation will continue, this

24:40

time, led by the U.S. Congress.

24:42

Within days of this hearing, Goodwin

24:44

receives the massive 12,000-page grand jury

24:46

report and begins reading. What he

24:48

finds leaves him convinced that there

24:50

was rampant fraud across a half

24:52

dozen quiz shows. But he doesn't

24:54

see much that would meet the

24:56

high legal bar for criminal convictions.

24:58

Still tens of millions of Americans

25:00

tuned in each night to watch

25:02

these shows, and they have a

25:04

right to know if they were

25:06

being deceived. So Goodwin decides it

25:09

would be worth it for the

25:11

U.S. House Committee on Interstate Commerce,

25:13

which oversees the television industry, to

25:15

investigate the issue for themselves. Goodwin

25:17

spends the next few weeks interviewing

25:19

a variety of people involved, including

25:21

both Herbert Stemple and Charles Van

25:23

Doran. Stemple repeats the same story

25:25

he's been telling to the press

25:27

and prosecutors for the past two

25:29

years. Van Doren sticks to his

25:31

story too, denying any involvement in

25:33

the collusion. And in their initial

25:35

meetings, Goodwin finds Van Doren believable,

25:37

even grows fond of him. But

25:39

as Goodwin continues making his way

25:41

through the details of the massive

25:43

grand jury report, he discovers sworn

25:45

testimony from Albert Friedman, admitting that

25:47

he personally provided Van Doren with

25:49

answers on more than a dozen

25:51

occasions. Now Goodwin is forced to

25:53

conclude that Van Doren has been

25:55

lying. But despite all this, Goodwin

25:58

still sympathizes with Van... Van Dorn.

26:00

He finds him to be an

26:02

otherwise decent man who's trying to

26:04

save his public reputation. So just

26:06

days before the public congressional hearings

26:08

are set to begin, Goodwin invites

26:10

Van Dorn to meet one more

26:12

time to offer some advice. That

26:14

night in September 1959, Goodwin is

26:16

at his home in the Georgetown

26:18

neighborhood of Washington when he hears

26:20

the front doorbell ring. Opening the

26:22

door, Goodwin finds Van Doren on

26:24

the doorstep and steps outside to

26:26

greet him. He explains that it's

26:28

important that they talk. but that

26:30

they should do it somewhere private.

26:32

His house is small and he

26:34

doesn't want his family overhearing their

26:36

conversation. Van Doran says he rented

26:38

a car and offers to take

26:40

Goodwin on a drive while they

26:42

talk. Goodwin nods. Van Doran starts

26:44

the car and begins driving aimlessly

26:46

through the upscale residential streets of

26:49

Georgetown, while Goodwin in the passenger

26:51

seat explains the situation. So, here's

26:53

the thing Charles. I know you've

26:55

been lying to me about what

26:57

happened on 21. I wanted to

26:59

believe you, I really did, but

27:01

all the evidence says otherwise. There's

27:03

just no reason Friedman would testify

27:05

that he gave you questions if

27:07

he didn't do it. Well, that's

27:09

unfortunate, because I promise you it

27:11

never happened. Perhaps Friedman was bullied

27:13

into telling the prosecutor what he

27:15

wanted to hear. Is that what

27:17

you're trying to do with me

27:19

now? No, far from it. That's

27:21

not even my job. And maybe

27:23

I'm crazy, but I don't even

27:25

take the lying personally. Because I

27:27

know you're in a tough spot.

27:29

I've got a plumb job on

27:31

the Today Show, a promising academic

27:33

career. I'm sure you've got your

27:35

family's reputation to worry about as

27:38

well. Well, all of that is

27:40

true, but I must insist that

27:42

I am innocent. That's fine. But

27:44

I need to give you a

27:46

warning, at least. The Congressional Committee

27:48

has decided to make all testimony.

27:50

You're going to force their hand.

27:52

You're going to have no choice

27:54

but subpoena you. So you're telling

27:56

me just to stay quiet. I

27:58

guess so, yeah. Even if you

28:00

feel you can't, because when Stempo

28:02

gets up there, he's going to

28:04

try to tear you apart, call

28:06

you a phony, the whole nine

28:08

yards. You'll be tempted to respond,

28:10

but if you do, you will

28:12

be forced to testify publicly under

28:14

oath. I won't be able to

28:16

help you. I'm just a junior

28:18

staffer. They won't listen to me.

28:20

I probably shouldn't be talking to

28:22

you right now. Well, I appreciate

28:24

you looking you looking out for

28:27

me. If you really want to

28:29

show your appreciation, take your appreciation,

28:31

take my advice. Two men drive

28:33

in silence for a moment, before

28:35

Van Doren pulls the car to

28:37

a stop outside Goodwin's house. And

28:39

Van Doren finally speaks up. You

28:41

know, Dick, I consider you a

28:43

friend. And someday, and all this

28:45

is over, I'll be able to

28:47

tell you why everyone else has

28:49

been lying to you. Goodwin shakes

28:51

Van Doren's hand and then steps

28:53

out of the car. But as

28:55

he turns back toward his home,

28:57

Van Doren's cryptic statement rings in

28:59

his ears. He wonders if Van

29:01

Doren has been deceiving the public

29:03

for so long now that he's

29:05

actually come to believe his own

29:07

lies. If that's true, Goodwin just

29:09

hopes Van Doren can find the

29:11

wisdom to keep that delusion to

29:13

himself. In the early hours of

29:15

December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson

29:18

stepped out onto the streets of

29:20

Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing

29:22

at him. and the suspect. He

29:24

has been identified as Luigi Nicholas

29:26

Mangioni became one of the most

29:28

divisive figures in modern criminal history.

29:30

I was meant to sow terror.

29:32

He's invoking the people to a

29:34

true issue. Listen to Law and

29:36

Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.

29:38

You can join Wondery Plus in

29:40

the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple

29:42

Podcasts. By

29:53

early October 1959, the Congressional Committee looking

29:56

into the quiz show scandal is ready

29:58

to begin public hearings. It's been more

30:00

than two years since former 21 champion

30:03

Herbert Stemple began reaching out to reporters,

30:05

saying the show was rigged, and nearly

30:07

one year since he testified to the

30:10

Manhattan Grand Jury. And in that time,

30:12

Stemple's claims have been contradicted by both

30:14

the show's lead producer Dan Enright and

30:17

the man who defeated him, Charles Van

30:19

Doran. Time and again, Stemple's name has

30:21

been dragged through the mud. He's been

30:24

called a liar, a criminal and psychologically

30:26

unwell. But now for the first time,

30:28

Stemple will get the opportunity to tell

30:31

his story under oath to the entire

30:33

country. So he volunteers to testify on

30:35

the very first day of the hearings.

30:37

And on the morning of October 6,

30:40

1959, Stemple sits down at a table

30:42

near the front of the hearing room

30:44

on Capitol Hill. As he looks around,

30:47

he takes in the intimidating scene. Behind

30:49

him, the galleries packed with reporters and

30:51

members of the public here to see

30:54

the spectacle. And in front of him

30:56

sit nine members of Congress, along with

30:58

various U.S. attorneys and their staff. Stemple's

31:01

heart begins to race. He chose to

31:03

appear without his lawyer at his side,

31:05

hoping to send the message that he

31:08

has nothing to hide. Now he's beginning

31:10

to wonder if that was a mistake.

31:12

But it's too late now. The hearing

31:15

begins with a brief introduction from the

31:17

chairman, and then the lights in the

31:19

room are dimmed. And a clip from

31:22

Stemple's final episode with Van Doran plays

31:24

on a large projector projector screen at

31:26

the front of the front of the

31:28

front of the front of the front

31:31

of the room. Stemple squirms in his

31:33

chair, watching himself on the big screen,

31:35

and reliving that humiliating experience. When the

31:38

film concludes, the committee's chief counsel Robert

31:40

Lishman begins the questioning. Mr. Stemple, I

31:42

have a question about what we just

31:45

saw here. I noticed you were sweating

31:47

quite a bit in that isolation booth.

31:49

Was that intentional on part of the

31:52

producers? Yes, it was explained to me

31:54

that they turned off the air conditioning

31:56

in the booth in order to make

31:59

me perspire. They even wanted me to

32:01

dab my brow for a dramatic effect

32:03

as if I was sweating over the

32:06

question. when in reality of course I

32:08

already knew the answers. And you knew

32:10

the answers because they were provided to

32:13

you beforehand. Yeah, that's right. Before each

32:15

episode I would meet with Dan Enright

32:17

and he would show them to me.

32:19

He would then instruct me on which

32:22

questions to get right or wrong. How

32:24

many points to go for with each?

32:26

Let's back up Mr. Stemple. When did

32:29

you first meet Mr. Enright? A few

32:31

days before my first appearance. He asked

32:33

to meet at my home. And in

32:36

that meeting he explained how the show

32:38

really worked. I would be receiving the

32:40

answers beforehand, and I was guaranteed to

32:43

win at least one game and possibly

32:45

more, he said. I was taking it

32:47

back, but he said, I would make

32:50

a minimum of $25,000, so I agreed

32:52

to it. I see. And you went

32:54

on to win a number of games

32:57

on the program. Do for a big

32:59

payout, but I understand you did not

33:01

get all the money that was promised.

33:04

That's all so correct. Yes, after I

33:06

had already been on the show for

33:08

a month. Mr. Enright explained that he

33:10

had a limited weekly budget for prize

33:13

money and forced me to sign a

33:15

letter agreeing to accept a significantly reduced

33:17

pay-out. I was happy with that, but

33:20

there wasn't much I could do. I

33:22

knew he would just get rid of

33:24

me if I didn't sign it. But

33:27

then, even though you'd done everything Mr.

33:29

Enright asked, including taking less money, he

33:31

removed you from the show anyway. Yes.

33:34

I knew I couldn't be on the

33:36

show forever, but the way they went

33:38

about it greatly upset me upset me.

33:41

They wanted me to lose to Charles

33:43

Van Doren and they played it up

33:45

in the press as me being a

33:48

nobody from City College versus Van Doren,

33:50

a fancy Ivy League professor. They also

33:52

had me throw the game on an

33:55

exceedingly easy question. And that question was

33:57

about which film won the 1955 Academy

33:59

Award for Best Picture. Yes, and I

34:01

knew it was Marty. I saw that

34:04

movie three times, but I had to

34:06

pretend I didn't know. The whole thing,

34:08

sir, sir, was humiliating. I knew I

34:11

could easily beat Van Dorn if it

34:13

was a real game. And then Van

34:15

Dorn just kept winning for about three

34:18

months with the press fawning over him.

34:20

But I knew the whole thing was

34:22

phony. They were feeding him the answers.

34:25

just like they had with me and

34:27

to make sure you left the show

34:29

quietly. Did Enright offer you anything in

34:32

return for your cooperation? Yes, he promised

34:34

me various jobs on the quiz shows

34:36

his company produced, but nothing ever came

34:39

of it. It was just another deception.

34:41

At that point I had nothing to

34:43

lose and that's why I contacted the

34:46

press. I wanted people to know I

34:48

wasn't just some schlum. I could have

34:50

been the greatest champion the show ever

34:52

had, if only they'd let me play

34:55

the game straight, if only indeed indeed.

34:57

Thank you, Mr. Stemple. When Stemple finishes

34:59

testifying, he feels a weight lifted from

35:02

his shoulders. Maybe now that he's told

35:04

his story under oath before Congress, people

35:06

will see the truth about how he

35:09

was manipulated and then cast aside by

35:11

Dan Enright. He just hopes that now

35:13

Van Doren will have the courage to

35:16

finally admit his role in the scheme.

35:18

Fellow 21 contestant James Snodgrad also testifies.

35:20

In a dramatic moment, he unseals one

35:23

of the dated, certified letters he mailed

35:25

to himself with the correct answers, offering

35:27

up definitive physical proof that he was

35:30

given the answers before taping. The following

35:32

day, NBC begins pressuring Charles Van Doren

35:34

to answer Stemple's accusations publicly. At the

35:37

time, Van Doren is still co-hosting the

35:39

Today Show, and the network wants him

35:41

to distance himself from this scandal. But

35:44

Van Doren doesn't issue any public statement.

35:46

Instead, he sends a private telegram to

35:48

the committee, in which he once again

35:50

denies any role in the collusion. He

35:53

even offers to tell the committee as

35:55

much in person, the very thing congressional

35:57

staffer Richard Goodwin had advised him against.

36:00

Later that same day, producers Dan Enright

36:02

and Albert Friedman testified to the committee

36:04

in a closed-door session, admitting their roles

36:07

in engineering the hoax. Friedman's testimony is

36:09

immediately leaked to the New York Mirror

36:11

tabloid, and the paper runs a front-page

36:14

story accusing Van Doren of being a

36:16

fraud. Van Doren now decides he can't

36:18

possibly testify. If he continues to deny

36:21

that 21 was rigged, everyone will know

36:23

he's lying. Feeling overwhelmed and humiliated, he

36:25

takes a leave of absence from the

36:28

Today Show, and goes into hiding in

36:30

rural New England, while the press have

36:32

a field day with the story, painting

36:35

Van Doren as a fugitive on the

36:37

run. And when he finally returns to

36:39

New York a week later, he's handed

36:41

a subpoena, forcing him to testify. So

36:44

on November 2nd, 1959 2nd, 1959 second

36:46

1959, 1959id, 1959 second, 1959. Van Doren

36:48

takes his seat at the witness table

36:51

before the House Committee on Interstate Commerce.

36:53

The room is packed with reporters waiting

36:55

to see the final climax to the

36:58

quiz show scandal. Even his old rival

37:00

Herbert Stemple is standing off to one

37:02

side with arms folded and sporting a

37:05

devious grin. Van Doren hates the idea

37:07

of giving Stemple the satisfaction of admitting

37:09

he's a fraud, and for a moment

37:12

he considers backing out. But then Van

37:14

Doren catches the eye of his father

37:16

Mark, who gives him a solemn nod.

37:19

The previous night, Van Doren promised his

37:21

father he would do the right thing

37:23

today and finally tell the truth. He's

37:26

already let his family down so much,

37:28

and he can't bear the thought of

37:30

doing so again. So Van Doren begins

37:32

his testimony by reading from a prepared

37:35

statement. The pages flutter slightly in his

37:37

hands as he reads the words allowed,

37:39

my responsibility now is to tell the

37:42

truth. I was deeply involved in a

37:44

deception, and I allowed myself to become

37:46

the public face of that deception. Van

37:49

Doren then admits that what he told

37:51

the grand jury in Manhattan was not

37:53

in accord with the facts, but today

37:56

he promises to finally tell the whole

37:58

truth. Van Doren takes a deep breath

38:00

and then begins laying out the whole

38:03

timeline. He explains how he was recruited

38:05

by Albert Friedman and pulled into the

38:07

collusion with a promise that his performance

38:10

would shed a positive light on the

38:12

teaching profession. But as Van Doren stayed

38:14

on the show for several months and

38:17

became one of the most famous faces

38:19

in America, the situation grew out of

38:21

control. When Stample and the other contestants

38:23

began revealing the truth about the fraud

38:26

that had taken place behind the scenes,

38:28

Van Doran found himself caught in an

38:30

impossible situation. Not wanting to betray the

38:33

teachers and school children around the country

38:35

who looked up to him, he chose

38:37

to deny everything. But as the scandal

38:40

grew, Van Doran admits, he could no

38:42

longer escape from it, saying there was

38:44

one way out, and that was simply

38:47

to tell the truth. When Van Doran

38:49

finishes his statement, he looks around the

38:51

room. Herbert Stemple is absolutely beaming, having

38:54

finally gotten exactly what he wanted. But

38:56

Van Doren's father looks ashen as tears

38:58

form in his eyes. Van Doren knows

39:01

admitting the fraud will likely cost him

39:03

a great deal. His position with NBC

39:05

and Columbia. But what was always most

39:08

important to him was living up to

39:10

his family's prestigious name and making them

39:12

proud. He knows he's brought them shame

39:14

with his actions over the past three

39:17

years. but he hopes that by finally

39:19

telling the truth, he's taken the first

39:21

small step toward earning back their respect.

39:24

Following Van Doren's statement, the committee's response

39:26

is mixed. Some Congress members praise him

39:28

for finally coming forward with the truth,

39:31

but others castigate Van Dorn for engaging

39:33

in fraud in the first place, suggesting

39:35

that he was motivated by money, not

39:38

lofty notions about elevating the profile of

39:40

the teaching profession. In the following weeks,

39:42

a stream of contestants, producers, network executives,

39:45

and sponsors all also testify. And desperate

39:47

to repair the public's trust, the networks

39:49

quickly moved to fire nearly everyone associated

39:52

in the scandal whether guilty or not.

39:54

They also rest away control of the

39:56

remaining shows from the sponsors, ensuring that

39:59

producers will no longer be intimidated into

40:01

manipulating outcomes under pressure from their corporate

40:03

benefactors. Then, as hearings conclude... President Dwight

40:05

Eisenhower directs U.S. Attorney General William Rogers

40:08

to prepare a report on the scan.

40:10

In it, Rogers recommends new legislation giving

40:12

the FCC more power in their oversight.

40:15

to quiz shows to ensure they are

40:17

fair and honest. And in September of

40:19

1960, Eisenhower signs a bill making it

40:22

illegal for the networks to present game

40:24

shows that are intended to deceive the

40:26

audience. A month later, 18 quiz show

40:29

contestants and producers are indicted for perjuring

40:31

themselves to the grand jury, Charles Van

40:33

Doren among them. By the end of

40:36

1962, all 18 are convicted, with many

40:38

already having pled guilty. All receive suspended

40:40

sentences and avoid serving jail time. But

40:43

many, including Charles Van Doren, never work

40:45

in television again. From wondering, this is

40:47

episode 4 of Quiz Show Wigging from

40:50

American Scan. In our next episode, I

40:52

speak with Howard Blumenthal and Bob Bowdo

40:54

about the 1950s Quiz Show era. Blumenthal's

40:56

father was a producer on 21, and

40:59

between the two of them they've known,

41:01

worked for, or interviewed many of the

41:03

people that were part of the scandal.

41:06

If you're enjoying American scandal, you can

41:08

unlock exclusive seasons on Wondery Plus. Binge

41:10

new seasons first, and listen completely ad-free,

41:13

when you join Wondery Plus in the

41:15

Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. And

41:17

before you go, tell us about yourself

41:20

by filling out a survey at wondery.com/survey.

41:22

If you'd like to learn more about

41:24

this story, we recommend the books Television

41:27

Fraud by Kent Anderson, Primetime and Miss

41:29

Demeanors by Joseph Stone and Tim Yawn,

41:31

and the PBS American experience documentary, The

41:34

Quiz Show Scandals. This episode contains reenactments

41:36

and dramatized details. And while in most

41:38

cases we can't know exactly what was

41:41

said, all our dramatizations are based on

41:43

historical research. American scandal is hosted, edited,

41:45

and executed produced by me, Lindsay Graham

41:47

for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga.

41:50

Sound design by Gabriel Gould. Music by

41:52

Thrum. This episode is written by Corey

41:54

Metcalfe, edited by Emma Cortland. Fact checking

41:57

by Elissa Jung Perry. Produced by John

41:59

on Reed, managing producer Joe Florentina,

42:01

senior producers Andy Beckerman

42:04

Andy Herman, development by by

42:06

Stephanie Jen's and producers producers are

42:08

Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Erin and

42:11

Aaron O'Flarity for Wonder.