0:00

Guys, I'm sure you're all familiar

0:02

with the old proverb, everything is

0:04

wrestling. Politics, business, entertainment, every industry

0:07

thrives on character development storytelling and

0:09

building an audience. Wrestling is a

0:11

mirror for whatever is happening in

0:13

culture. So, if you want to

0:16

understand culture, just watch wrestling. and

0:18

no one understands the art of

0:20

storytelling. And brand building better than

0:22

our guest today is a 14-time

0:25

W.W.E. world champion, a two-time world

0:27

rumble winner, and now he's behind-the-scenes

0:29

running world wrestling entertainment. He's a

0:31

man of many markers, terrorizing, Jean-Paul

0:33

Levek, Hunter Hirsch Helmsley, the game.

0:35

But today we're gonna call him

0:37

Triple H. Just give it. Okay

0:39

first question I'm doing some research

0:42

on you and I come across

0:44

this story I don't know if

0:46

it's legend you can break it

0:48

down for us but basically one

0:50

of the worst moments in your

0:52

career you get punished unjustly and

0:54

because of that punishment one of

0:56

the greatest superstars in the history

0:58

of wrestling is created tell us how

1:00

we get there yeah I'll just I'll lead

1:02

you into what's supposed to happen so at

1:05

that point in time I'm I'm starting to

1:07

get some momentum going in my career and

1:09

there's a plan in place that I am

1:11

going to win a very, especially

1:14

at the time, was a

1:16

very prestigious tournament called the King

1:18

of the Ring. I would be Crown

1:20

King of the Ring, which would then

1:22

launch me into a program or an

1:24

angle with Sean Michaels, who was champion,

1:26

or I think at the time when

1:28

they brought it up, he was either

1:30

champion at that time or was going

1:32

to be champion by that time. And

1:34

I was going to sort of... Escalade

1:37

myself up into that higher level of

1:39

being a heel a bad guy and

1:41

Sean was a baby-faced champion So we

1:43

were going to go into this program

1:46

Into that year, so it would have

1:48

been a huge what we would call

1:50

push for me in the business Yeah,

1:52

yeah, it just would have really been

1:54

the thing that launched me Also this

1:56

is years into the business. But early

1:59

for me and W.E. to a degree.

2:01

Right. And at that same point in

2:03

time, you know, the business was going

2:06

through transitional changes, right? So I'm at

2:08

that time, I'm still hunter herself. Yeah,

2:10

I'm the blue blood snob. There's still

2:13

like everybody's got to have sort of

2:15

gimmicks and characters that are not necessarily

2:17

just like you're a wrestler. fireman or

2:20

cop or the clown or whatever it

2:22

is the gimmicks are larger than life

2:24

sort of cartoony characters but backstage there's

2:27

a group of us that hang out

2:29

together that were known as the click

2:31

yeah Kevin Nash Scott Hall Sean Waltman

2:33

Sean Michael's myself yeah and I was

2:36

kind of they were kind of just

2:38

friends and all hung out together Sort

2:40

of Lugar gave him the name the

2:43

click because they were always together I

2:45

sort of come in at that same

2:47

time for whatever reason I get along

2:50

great with those guys We all end

2:52

up as a group were known as

2:54

the click now you're known as a

2:57

group backstage Backstage Backstage some of you

2:59

guys are baby faces some of you

3:01

guys are heels. Yes, and from my

3:04

understanding the heels in the baby faces

3:06

never even really hung out that much

3:08

backstage. They would never ride around together.

3:11

There was like a real to a

3:13

degree Yeah, nobody even associated with each

3:15

other. If they walked into a bar

3:17

and there was a bad guy in

3:20

there and a good guy walked in

3:22

a bar, he'd just leave. So you

3:24

basically keep the KFAB going. You keep

3:27

it going all the time. And you

3:29

know, that was at a period of

3:31

time where guys were getting into fights

3:34

over, is the big, you know, if

3:36

somebody came to you and said, ah,

3:38

that stuff's fake, whatever we're, you know,

3:41

try to criticize it. We're not afraid

3:43

to do that. Yeah, guys are hardly

3:45

racing. Things like that, that would really,

3:48

you know, they were legitimate bad asses.

3:50

And if somebody questioned the business. they'd

3:52

end up being up knocked out broken

3:55

leg, whatever. And the idea is that

3:57

like you have to protect the business

3:59

because without the business there's no job.

4:01

Yes. And it's all predicated on this

4:04

idea that this is 100% real, not

4:06

scripted, and people need to believe. Yeah,

4:08

though as you move forward out of

4:11

that I think people became accepting of,

4:13

it's just great entertainment. Yeah. I want

4:15

to get to this like later because

4:18

I don't want to draw up the

4:20

story, but like... I think one of

4:22

the coolest things that I've learned now,

4:25

especially different from when I was a

4:27

kid watching wrestling, is like how aware

4:29

the average wrestling fan is of what's

4:32

going on. And it's become really meta.

4:34

To click away. Yeah, to click away.

4:36

All the information. Yeah. And what's what's

4:39

fascinating about our business is as interesting

4:41

as the characters we put on TV.

4:43

Right, so there's a moment where there's

4:45

some people that are just interested in

4:48

what they see on TV There are

4:50

some people that are just as fascinated

4:52

if not more so with what happens

4:55

behind the scenes the sort of the

4:57

The who that person is in real

4:59

life the politics of it. They make

5:02

up their own stories in some manner

5:04

of the things that are going on.

5:06

Well, I know that guy hates that

5:09

guy and they don't get along at

5:11

all and yeah, you know We will

5:13

even perpetuate that through the internet and

5:16

things like that, where it might not

5:18

have anything to do with a story

5:20

that is happening on the show, but

5:23

we'll perpetuate that partially. As we get

5:25

into this, I think that's important that

5:27

you brought that up, because I think

5:29

that's a huge game change that I

5:32

hope you get credit for in wrestling

5:34

and blurring the lines of what's happening

5:36

backstage and on stage. So part of

5:39

that. translates into or relates to this

5:41

story of what you're talking about. So

5:43

that group, the clique, were all very

5:46

tight backstage. It's not like common knowledge,

5:48

I wouldn't say everybody knows it, but

5:50

there's a section of fans that at

5:53

that time, you know, before the internet,

5:55

are really beginning to understand what goes

5:57

on behind the scenes. who's really tight,

6:00

and who's not. These guys are friends,

6:02

and that guy isn't, and they don't

6:04

like this guy, and there's politics with

6:07

that, whatever. So Kevin Nash and Scott

6:09

Hall make a deal with W.C.W. to

6:11

leave. The rival league. Who's throwing money

6:13

around at this point? Sign away, a

6:16

bunch of Monday Night War going on.

6:18

Vince is coming off of trials and

6:20

all this stuff where the business is

6:23

sort of down. W.C.W. goes on the

6:25

attack and one of the things that

6:27

they do is they start really coming

6:30

after talent with big Big Jackson, right?

6:32

Whereas Vince sort of put you into

6:34

a position where you were participating in

6:37

the revenue of the business. So if

6:39

we went to Madison Square Garden, it

6:41

was sold out, the gate is this,

6:44

there's a percentage of that gate that

6:46

gets paid to talent. That's divvied up

6:48

amongst the talent, right? There's percentages. So

6:51

if business is good, you make more

6:53

money, if business is down, you make

6:55

less money. And that's why you protect

6:58

the business. And that's why you protect

7:00

the business. So, you know, Scott Hall

7:02

decides he's leaving shortly thereafter. Kevin Nash

7:04

goes through this big thing where he

7:07

doesn't want to leave, but they're offering

7:09

him so much money. And, you know,

7:11

our schedule in WWE was at that

7:14

point time, we were working. you know,

7:16

200, 250 days a year, we're on

7:18

the road all the time. Physically grueling.

7:21

Yes, yeah, just non-stop. Just the travel

7:23

wears out a comedian. Like you traveling

7:25

to sit on a stool on stage,

7:28

I'm exhausted. You guys are flying through

7:30

cages. And in the same business, right,

7:32

like the best part of what you

7:35

do is when you're on that stage,

7:37

when you're in that ring. And that

7:39

other 23 hours and 20 minutes of

7:42

the day is the shit you put

7:44

up with to get to do your

7:46

job. It's it's grueling. It's relentless and

7:48

you know Kevin gets in a place

7:51

where they're offering ridiculous money And but

7:53

he still doesn't want to go and

7:55

there's a moment where he tells me

7:58

Right when he has to give the

8:00

answer I'm home, he calls me and

8:02

he's like, I'm not going, staying, I

8:05

can't do it. And then like

8:07

two days later, we're at TV

8:09

and he's like, I just gave

8:11

Vince my notice. I'm like,

8:14

I thought you weren't going.

8:16

And he's like, basically my

8:18

wife said, you don't either

8:20

take that money. I'm not

8:22

raising this kid by myself

8:25

with that schedule anymore, like you

8:27

take that money. half. Oh wow. How

8:29

are they able to give out bigger

8:31

checks if they weren't doing as much?

8:34

That's why they're out of business. Yeah.

8:36

Yeah, it's, you know, it was Ted

8:38

Turner, it was, it was TBS, a

8:41

lot of money, a lot of, and

8:43

there's a certain point in time where

8:45

like when you, when you're just paying

8:47

a lot of money and the revenues

8:50

not coming in, like, well, you know,

8:52

it's a time bomb. Yeah, you know,

8:54

any fool can run a business in

8:56

the red. I take a genius to

8:58

do that. Kevin and Scott are leaving.

9:00

Sean and I are staying. There's

9:02

another guy in the group,

9:05

Sean Waltman, but he is

9:07

at Madison Square Garden, but

9:09

we're doing a show of

9:11

Madison Square Garden. It's their

9:13

last time at Madison Square

9:16

Garden. They're leaving shortly thereafter.

9:18

And Sean comes to me during

9:20

the day and he's like, hey, I

9:22

mentioned something to Vince about... us all

9:25

going out at the end of the

9:27

show and having a moment

9:29

together. And I said, what did

9:31

Vince say? And he was like,

9:33

yeah, I guess if that means

9:36

a lot to you or something

9:38

like that. And so it's kind

9:40

of very vague. But what was

9:42

weird about it was funny. That's

9:44

the hell. So what's weird about

9:47

it is, to the business is

9:49

Scott and I are going to

9:51

wrestle. earlier in the show, like

9:53

a street fight. And I beat Scott and

9:55

the whole thing. And then Sean and

9:57

Kevin are going to work a cage.

10:00

match for the WW at the time after,

10:02

I think WWE title, whatever. And the close

10:04

of the show. So us coming out there

10:06

to have a moment together is sort of

10:08

contrary to the show. Of course. And. But

10:11

now when the time comes to do this

10:13

Scott and I wrestle earlier We have this

10:15

knockdown drag out street fight and then now

10:17

Kevin Sean go in there and we're kind

10:19

of at the end of the show and

10:22

there's a the way the garden was set

10:24

up in the past There's a side balm

10:26

that Like guys would always stand at to

10:28

watch the show Vince would stand at this

10:30

curtain his dad would stand to that curtain

10:33

right? That's where they would watch from and

10:35

Scott and I were standing there and we

10:37

kind of get to the end of the

10:39

end of the end of the match and

10:41

Sean is kind of looking back at looking

10:44

back at looking back at looking back at

10:46

looking back at looking back at looking back

10:48

at looking back at And Scott says to

10:50

me, like, are we supposed to go out

10:52

there? Like, I don't know, dude. And then

10:55

Scott looks at Vince and he goes, are

10:57

we supposed to go out there? And he's

10:59

like, kind of like, we're all unsure. And

11:01

then Scott's like, fuck it, I'm going. And

11:03

he just goes, right? And I think in

11:06

his mind, like, I'm quitting. Yeah, I'm out

11:08

of here. Yeah, fucking. I'm going. I'm like,

11:10

well, they're kind of looking waving, waving waving,

11:12

waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, waving,

11:14

waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, waving, and

11:17

I, and I, and I, and I, and

11:19

I, and I, and I, and I, and

11:21

I, and I, and I, and I, and

11:23

I, and I, and I, and I, and

11:25

I, and I, and I, and I, and

11:28

I, and I, and I, like, and And

11:30

we have this moment. And I mean, the

11:32

garden's sold out and they go ballistic. So

11:34

the people are happy to see you all

11:36

acknowledge that you were friends. It's this crazy

11:39

moment, right? Like it's this crazy moment of

11:41

like, most people I believe in that time,

11:43

probably in the garden, especially in New York,

11:45

is so savvy to everything. Like, they know

11:48

we're all friends, they get it, right? And

11:50

they know they're leaving. And this is like

11:52

an incredible, real. real life moment. First time

11:54

in wrestling history this has happened where you

11:56

kind of break. Probably that's one of the

11:59

big yeah one of the big moments where

12:01

it actually happens so we do it when

12:03

we come back everybody's gone like everybody and

12:05

like usually there's I think like there's people

12:07

back there, the agents, all the stuff. So

12:10

we come back, everybody's gone, I'm like, that's

12:12

not a good sign. But so Sean goes

12:14

and talks to Vince, and Vince says, well,

12:16

that was a lot different than what I

12:18

thought it was gonna be, and Sean said,

12:21

hope I was okay. And he said, well,

12:23

did that mean something to you? And Sean

12:25

goes, met the world to me, and he

12:27

goes, then I'm okay with it. And we

12:29

left. And we used to stay, and at

12:32

the time, and at the time, we stayed

12:34

in Newark, we stayed in Newark, we stayed

12:36

in Newark, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:38

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:40

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:43

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:45

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:47

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:49

we stayed, we stayed, we stayed, we stayed,

12:51

we stayed business is different now. We'll drive

12:54

back. We'll drive back. We would, if we

12:56

were doing the garden, Long Island, all that

12:58

stuff, New York was a big hub, we'd

13:00

go stay in Newark. At the airport and

13:02

just make the balance, right? So you could

13:05

stay in one place. So we went back,

13:07

we all had dinner together, this diner and

13:09

stuff like that, and we were all like,

13:11

well, that was crazy, what just happened and

13:13

all that shit. And, you know, big moment.

13:16

So the next day I'm off, I'm off,

13:18

I'm off. I'm driving up, I lived in

13:20

New Hampshire the time, driving back up and

13:22

as soon as I get home, there's a

13:24

message from Vince's office, his secretary, saying, Vince

13:27

would like to see you first thing in

13:29

the morning tomorrow. And I'm like, fuck. Like,

13:31

this isn't gonna be good. Like he ain't

13:33

calling to go like, wonderful, John. Like is

13:36

my day off? I gotta he, you know,

13:38

I gotta go there. So I like literally

13:40

turn around drive all the way back. Go

13:42

go back to the office the next day,

13:44

and this is the this is the meeting

13:47

where like Everybody's freaking out and and Vince

13:49

was even putting it on I wasn't so

13:51

sure that he was upset with it Everybody

13:53

else and you have to understand all the

13:55

producers and agents backstage and help with the

13:58

show and everything our generation before So there

14:00

of the generation of protect the business at

14:02

all cost bad guys don't ride with good

14:04

guys, right? Yeah to some degree They all

14:06

go nuts when they see this and now

14:09

Kevin's leaving, Scott's leaving, into those producers and

14:11

agents. Well, it looks bad for Vince. It

14:13

looks like the inmates are running the asylum

14:15

and he doesn't have control over these guys,

14:17

this group, the click, has like he's doing

14:20

whatever they want and they spit right in

14:22

your face and if you don't do something,

14:24

it looks bad. It's a disrespectful type thing.

14:26

And I don't think Vince took it that

14:28

way, but I think that's what he was,

14:31

he always had a saying, perception is reality.

14:33

perception amongst them was this and so you

14:35

know as soon I knew I wasn't sure

14:37

I'm like well I'm either gonna get fired

14:39

or this is going to be like I'm

14:42

gonna get like this is gonna be heavy

14:44

and What a drive from New

14:46

Hampshire. Yeah, right. Yeah. So, but I was, you

14:48

know, I was kind of like, well, it is

14:50

what it is. Okay. And I'm a big believer

14:52

in like, if you're gonna do something that in

14:54

your minds, you know, it's kind of fucked up,

14:56

like you cannot cry afterwards with whatever comes about

14:58

from it. Like you made the decision to do

15:01

it. So, if the ramifications of that are way

15:03

worse than you thought, well, that's on you. You

15:05

made the choice. Yeah, it's a pretty heavy meeting

15:07

and Vince is like, look, it's unfair, it's all

15:09

these things, but Kev's leaving, Scott's leaving, I can't

15:11

do anything to them. Kid wasn't there, but Sean

15:13

was there, but he's the WW champion, like. Sean

15:15

Michael's the champion, can't push the chance. Not much

15:17

I can do to him. So, you're like, you

15:19

just call it a wash, right? Just move on,

15:21

huh? Yeah, and he was like, well, you know,

15:23

here's a lot of people are saying, a lot

15:25

of people are saying I should fire, I should

15:27

fire you, I should fire you. I should fire

15:29

you. I should fire you. I should fire you.

15:32

And I'm like, okay, what are you saying? And

15:34

he said, I don't want to fire you. I

15:36

think you're incredibly talented. I think I want you

15:38

here. But, you know, I've got to do something.

15:40

And so he was, you know, you were going

15:42

to win King of the Ring. That's going to

15:44

go away. You were going to do this program.

15:46

with Sean, that's going

15:48

to go away." You were

15:50

going to, and this

15:52

is one of Vince's favorite

15:54

sayings, but this was

15:56

the time when he said

15:58

it to me when

16:00

I hit the hardest. He

16:03

said, you are going

16:05

to have to learn to

16:07

eat platefuls of shit

16:09

and like the taste of

16:11

it. And,

16:13

uh, okay. And I said, so the one

16:15

thing, you know, I was accepting of it.

16:17

Obviously, he hit hard, but I was accepting

16:19

of it. And I said to him before

16:22

I left, I said, here's him, because he

16:24

said, but if you want to leave, he

16:26

said, I understand this is not all on

16:28

you. If you want to leave, if you

16:30

think you can get a job with Turner,

16:32

with those guys, if you want to leave,

16:34

I understand that. I'll make it where there's

16:36

a loophole in your contract. Oh, that's decent.

16:38

And you can get out. Did you consider

16:40

it? Did you consider it? I didn't. I

16:42

didn't want, I had come from there. Yeah,

16:45

of course. Right. So before I came in,

16:47

so I kind of knew, even though it

16:49

had rose risen dramatically and their business had

16:51

gone through the roof, I was like, I

16:53

don't want to be there. I'm here for

16:55

a reason. This is

16:57

the place where they can make me. What felt better?

16:59

What felt different? They

17:01

didn't have a clue what they were doing

17:03

there. And it was, it was literally the

17:06

inmates running the asylum. I knew that, like,

17:08

you knew you had a boss right here.

17:10

You knew that there was one place to

17:12

get the final answer from, and that it

17:14

came from one place, and that sometimes it's

17:16

all you need is whether you like the

17:18

decision or you don't, you need somebody to

17:20

make a decision. It can't be, well, we,

17:22

I think this. And then you go to

17:24

this guy and he's like, no, I don't

17:26

want to do that. I want to do

17:28

this. And he's got some kind of creative

17:30

control. But this other guy's got creative control

17:32

too. And this is a mess, right? It's

17:34

a mess. So

17:38

one of the things I said events was

17:40

I said, I don't want to leave. I said,

17:42

if, but if I have no choice, then

17:44

well, that's what I have to do. But I

17:46

said, let me just ask you a question.

17:48

And I said, I'm, I'm, I did the crime.

17:50

I'll take all the punishment, but I have

17:52

to know is there, is there a point where

17:55

this ends? Is there a light at the

17:57

end of the tunnel? I'm willing to go through

17:59

all the shit. I'm willing to take I'm willing to

18:01

do the time for what I did,

18:03

but I gotta know there's an end

18:05

point on it. If you say to me,

18:07

I can't get out of this, then I

18:09

gotta go. But if you say to

18:11

me, no, no, it'll be a period

18:14

of time, and then you'll

18:16

get the opportunity, as long

18:18

as I'm still delivering to

18:20

where you feel like I

18:22

deserve that opportunity, if I

18:24

can get that opportunity, then

18:26

I stay. And he said, as far

18:28

as I'm concerned. There's no issue

18:30

with me. He said, as far as I'm

18:32

concerned, when you walk out that door at

18:34

my office, it's over. It's all, it's all

18:37

done, and you're on flat ground with me.

18:39

He said, but I got a, I got a,

18:41

for a period of time, I got

18:43

to put this out to everybody else,

18:45

that you're fucked. And then once, once

18:48

I feel like that's been enough, then

18:50

as long as you're still delivering, you

18:52

get the opportunity to come back up.

18:54

So I left there and one of the

18:57

things that I said to him before I

18:59

left is I went to the door and

19:01

I stopped and I said hey I just

19:03

want to ask you one thing and

19:05

I just want it to be something

19:07

that you think about because it's

19:09

been resonating with me is I

19:11

understand everybody's point of view but

19:13

the world is changing and the

19:15

business is changing. And I said

19:17

if what we did was so

19:19

bad then why was the largest

19:21

or the loudest reaction of the

19:23

entire night? what we did. Like, if

19:25

what we did was so bad, isn't

19:27

our job to entertain those people that

19:30

all paid? I guarantee you the one

19:32

thing they left there saying is, holy

19:34

shit, at the end, they all came

19:37

out, it was his moment, it was

19:39

real, right? Like I said, the business

19:41

is changing and we're either gonna change

19:44

with it, or it's gonna pass us

19:46

by. And he sat there for a

19:48

second and he said, you might

19:50

be right, but right now isn't

19:52

the moment. Right. Fair enough. And

19:55

I and I and I left

19:57

and then yeah I went

19:59

from being the guy that was

20:01

gonna win King in the ring to

20:03

be in the guy that was losing

20:05

in the first round and Jake Roberts

20:07

who was you know fairly all of

20:09

the time was sticking the snake down

20:12

my pants as a ha-ha thing and

20:14

you know I had a you know

20:16

I got every shit detail every bad

20:18

thing I got given to me what

20:20

are examples of just you getting fucked

20:22

whoever was the worst guy that they

20:24

wanted me to get over like just

20:26

go put that guy go go get

20:28

so you'd have to wrestle these guys

20:30

that they're trying to build up and

20:32

they all have to beat you yeah

20:34

and and and you know I'm not

20:36

I'm not on any media anymore I'm

20:38

not featured in the shows I'm just

20:40

you're just there you're a B side

20:42

fighter I'm just at best right in

20:44

boxing we call it a tomato camp

20:47

yeah yeah at best and then so yeah

20:49

time went on and you know eventually

20:51

it got to a point where I'm

20:53

a big believer in like if you're

20:55

talented and you know say that

20:57

about myself I guess in that manner but

21:00

if you're if you believe in yourself and

21:02

you believe in your talent then they can't

21:04

only hold that back for so long that

21:07

will eventually come out and it'll eventually

21:09

rise to the top and it's not

21:11

about the storyline they give you always

21:13

or the the thing they give you

21:15

it's about creating your moments there's something

21:17

I tell tell all the time maximize

21:19

your minutes so even if I went out

21:22

there with a shit detail I would find

21:24

something in there for me to have a

21:26

moment yeah I don't know, that was good. Whatever. You

21:28

know what I mean? Like, I would have that one

21:30

moment where I at least felt like I came back

21:32

and I was like, that was horrible, but I at

21:34

least got this out of it. I made the best

21:36

of it. Yeah, and you sort of have to, you

21:38

have to get that at those moments. There might be

21:40

too vague to answer if it is, that's fine, you

21:42

just move on, but what is an example like a

21:45

moment to like a noob like me? Yeah,

21:47

that's too vague is fine. It could be

21:49

anything, but it just could be when you

21:51

have an opportunity, at some point as the

21:53

heel, you're going to have an opportunity to

21:55

beat the shit out of the baby face.

21:57

In what manner do you do it? So

22:00

many... people get into a place in our

22:02

business I think or anything else

22:04

like in our business where you

22:06

believe in yourself and you believe

22:08

in your ability and the as

22:10

writers we're not using you to

22:12

the best of your ability right

22:14

now that happens to everybody right

22:16

and there's absent flows in your

22:19

career how you deal with that

22:21

though is up to you you can

22:23

go out there and say I'm gonna fucking

22:25

prove it to them every single night I'm gonna

22:27

go out there and kill this no matter

22:29

what it is or you can go they're not

22:31

using me yeah they don't care fuck that

22:33

I'll show them and go out there and not

22:35

try yeah even getting your ass kicked you can

22:38

have a good performance yeah you know right it's

22:40

yeah there's a there's like anytime I'm acting

22:42

or like doing some movies like sometimes you see

22:44

some real pros there right and they might

22:46

have like a line or two in the scene

22:48

and they'll just find a way to make

22:51

a way to make a way to make it

22:53

the funniest line even when they're not even

22:55

saying anything like scene stealer guy in the

22:57

background that just like where you just can't

23:00

help a look at that guy yeah and

23:02

it's like it's not like they're being narcissistic

23:04

they're like given one line they're like how

23:06

can I add to this scene and how

23:09

can I make this good this good and

23:11

how can I make this good and watching

23:13

that it's really interesting because a lot of

23:15

times you look at the most lines okay

23:18

who I'm delivering it or that person you

23:20

could have one line exactly and it I

23:22

can sometimes tell watching the show like

23:24

that guy walking out he's about to

23:26

get beat by this other guy and

23:29

he thinks it's wrong that they're putting

23:31

that guy over him so he doesn't

23:33

want to do it we call boo-boo

23:35

facing so he comes out from the

23:37

face and he doesn't have that same

23:40

fire now that same talent sometimes oh

23:42

they're going over this this this matches

23:44

for them this they're going to go

23:46

over they come out Like a big star

23:48

and everything they knew is they're putting all

23:50

the effort in and like all that stuff

23:53

right It's it's it's easy to put the effort

23:55

in when they're going away Yeah, and when

23:57

they're going with you and this is all

23:59

about me The trick is to put

24:01

that effort in. You know, the trick

24:03

is to still, you know, go to

24:05

the gym, hit it just as hard,

24:08

be in just as good a shape,

24:10

be spot on on your game, and

24:12

do all those things that you need

24:14

to do because when that one time

24:16

that they give you something and that

24:19

you see that whole, I can do

24:21

that and steal this scene. And you

24:23

go out there and you do that.

24:25

And now, that's that after a couple

24:27

of times, that stuff starts to become

24:30

undeniable to become undeniable. So when the

24:32

crowd starts to see that and they

24:34

start to get into a talent... Now

24:36

you're giving that crowd what they want

24:38

and they're respecting it and they're going

24:40

with it. We have no choice but

24:43

to follow that. Yeah. Would you ever

24:45

get upset at your opponent if it

24:47

feels like they're just phoning it in

24:49

during the match? Sometimes. What do you

24:51

do? You fuck them up a little

24:54

bit more? Nah, you know, it just

24:56

depends on who it is. You know,

24:58

sometimes you just talk to them like,

25:00

I'm like, come on, step up. I'm

25:02

going to be at the Comedy Works

25:04

in downtown 420 show. You know what

25:07

that means? I will be performing high

25:09

the one and only time all year

25:11

May 9th and 10th Virginia Beach June

25:13

19th and Through 21st from being Salt

25:15

Lake City at Wise guys all those

25:18

dates and plenty more on Akash singh.com

25:20

Also June 4th through 9th Brown basketball

25:22

players, brown ballers tournament, compete for a

25:24

million dollars in, where is this shit

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going to be, somewhere in North Carolina,

25:28

Kerry North Carolina, June 4th through 6th,

25:31

check that out, I just want to

25:33

shout out my brown brothers playing basketball,

25:35

keep doing great things. Love y'all. Hold

25:37

on a second, don't skip forward guys,

25:39

because it's the world's fastest ad. Read,

25:42

my name's Mark, I'm coming to America,

25:44

all right? We're going to Bangor, Maine,

25:46

Portland, Maine, Charleston, Atlanta, Stroudsburg, Hoboken, Indianapolis.

25:48

Several cities, just like his dick. Let's

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get a fuck miles in the chat,

25:52

by the way, to prove you didn't

25:55

skip. We got Raleigh, North Carolina, Pecipse,

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Portland, Portland, Fort Worth, Austin, Stanford, Eleventown,

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and Sanford Town Channel, and San Diego,

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and San Diego, and San Diego, and

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San Diego, and San Diego, and San

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Diego, and San Diego, and San Diego,

26:08

and San Diego, and San Diego, more

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dates to come. More dates to come,

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more dates to come, more dates to

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get it, you can get it, you

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can get it, you can get it,

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you can get it, you can get

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it, website Mark Gagnon live.com and I

26:25

can't wait to see you guys there

26:27

for consensual time or no one's gonna

26:30

have no one's gonna suck my day.

26:32

Somebody suck his dick. Okay and we're

26:34

back. Okay so yeah I wonder if

26:36

like Eton Ship for that that much

26:38

time gave you like a real competitive

26:41

advantage because you get used to not

26:43

getting the thing. So now you're not

26:45

bitter about not getting it and also

26:47

you're not afraid about being the position

26:49

where you're not getting put over. Yeah.

26:51

Yeah, well, and I think it, I

26:54

don't know, there's something like, at that

26:56

point now, I'm trying to earn my

26:58

way back up, but at the same

27:00

point time, you start to begin to

27:02

realize like, oh, well, fuck it. If

27:05

it doesn't go well, then who knows?

27:07

Like, I could be here for a

27:09

while, they could fire me or... Maybe

27:11

this isn't the right place for me,

27:13

so I go someplace else, whatever that

27:15

is. You start to get to a

27:18

place that is... I don't want to

27:20

say you don't give a shit because

27:22

you do, you care more than anything,

27:24

but you start to realize, fuck it,

27:26

I'm just going to do my thing.

27:29

You're free. Yeah. It's a free thing.

27:31

Yeah, so when you see us get

27:33

to a point after that, when I

27:35

start to get sort of free of

27:37

free of that junk, is the time

27:39

we get to do D.X. We had

27:42

been on Vince for a long time

27:44

prior to Kevin and Scott leaving that

27:46

we wanted to do this group. We

27:48

wanted to sort of take what we

27:50

were doing personally and put it on

27:53

TV because we thought people will really

27:55

think this is cool. Right, right. And

27:57

Kevin and Scott are gone. You're telling

27:59

people to suck your dick. What's happened?

28:01

Suck the chef. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, look

28:03

this up. So that was sort of

28:06

just us in real life, right? You

28:08

couldn't suck the shit. Austin gets to

28:10

a place where he's allowed to flip

28:12

people off. Oh, sorry. We never got

28:14

sorry. Yeah. So I'll get there. But

28:17

like, Austin was in a place where

28:19

he can flip people up. But prior

28:21

to that, as we're coming out of

28:23

that generation, you can't flip people off.

28:25

You can't do that. You can't do

28:28

anything. As talent, this is before any

28:30

of this happens, Kev Scott, myself, like,

28:32

we have this thing we would do

28:34

where you get this thing we would

28:36

do where you get up on the

28:38

turnbuckle up on the turnbuckle. just look

28:41

at him and be like, hey buddy,

28:43

right, fucking. You know what I mean?

28:45

That's all it would be. Or you'd

28:47

be like, you know, just, and they

28:49

got it. Yeah, yeah, right. And you

28:52

move on. We, as the attitude error

28:54

begins to form and sort of, I'm

28:56

in a place where, hey, well, I

28:58

just want to get out of this

29:00

purgatory I'm in. and Sean's the guy.

29:02

We get the Vince, Vince allows us

29:05

to sort of partner up on screen

29:07

and DX becomes a thing. And in

29:09

the beginning now we start doing all

29:11

this crazy shit and he's like, fuck

29:13

are you guys doing? Now I've also,

29:16

over that time when I'm punished, I

29:18

think Vince liked the fact that Maybe

29:20

through all this shit at me, and

29:22

I never blinked. You know what I

29:24

mean? Like, the only one time I

29:26

ever went to him and bitched in

29:29

all of it, and it was because

29:31

he put me in a match with

29:33

a guy that was almost impossible to

29:35

work with, and then gave me like

29:37

the worst referee that we had, and

29:40

like the whole setup was bad, and

29:42

it went really badly, and I came

29:44

back, and I went off, and it

29:46

was like, hey, if you're going to...

29:48

If you're going to not allow me

29:50

to have the chance to succeed, then

29:53

fuck that I'm out of here. Like

29:55

you cannot give me, you cannot give,

29:57

put me in a position where I

29:59

cannot succeed or cannot win and can't

30:01

even do my job. Right? Like if

30:04

you put me in that position, then

30:06

I have no choice but to go

30:08

because I cannot, I can't overcome that.

30:10

What was it? I was working, I

30:12

was wrestling a guy that was just

30:15

terrible. They wanted me to have this

30:17

long match with him. They gave me

30:19

the worst referee, which a referee can

30:21

help you work around people's in in

30:23

abilities because I can talk to the

30:25

referee. So if... If

30:28

I need a guy to do something,

30:30

he's not doing something right, I can't

30:32

just always walk over there and tell

30:34

him. So you tell the reference. I'm

30:36

like, I'm like, I fucking tell him

30:38

to stop doing that and fucking, you

30:40

know what I mean? Like the referee

30:42

can go over and tell him, he

30:45

said stop doing that, do this, right?

30:47

And I have enough experience to where

30:49

guys will listen, but I need that

30:51

sometimes you need to help, especially on

30:53

live TV, or even tape TV, you

30:55

just need to have that. I'm Ed

30:57

Johnson, a guy named Ahmed. Oh, I

30:59

remember. He was terrible. He was like

31:01

injured people in the ring, right? He

31:04

was hurting people and he was just

31:06

big. Yeah. Yeah, just couldn't understand him

31:08

and he had an attitude problem and

31:10

just, you know, and he had an

31:12

attitude problem and just, you know, that's

31:14

him. And you know, they, they, it

31:16

was just one of those things and

31:18

when I came back, I was pissed

31:21

and I was pissed and I went

31:23

to Vincent and I got a problem

31:25

on him. That's fair. That's fair. And

31:27

I was like, okay, well then fucking

31:29

don't do it again. I walked out,

31:31

you know, but he was like, that's

31:33

fair. You can't, if I put you,

31:35

if I give, dump that much shit

31:37

on you, that you just can never

31:40

dig out of it. Then, you know,

31:42

so, so he, you know, change that,

31:44

but I think he respected the fact

31:46

that I, you know. You

31:48

ate I did the time I never bitched

31:50

I never did anything and now it was

31:52

time for me to get out of jail

31:55

and when he did he was like Emily

31:57

you and Sean do this group thing. Okay,

31:59

so that's your reward. It's sort of yeah,

32:01

and but Sean, I immediately just go into

32:03

like overdrive on it and start doing shit

32:05

that he is just like. So you get

32:08

an opportunity to immediately try to fuck it

32:10

up. Make up for a long time. I

32:12

tell the whole arena, suck our face. I

32:14

don't think we were trying to fuck it

32:16

up, but we just had that, like, we

32:19

wanted that creative freedom to go do what

32:21

we wanted here. And the thing was. I

32:23

believe that Vince was starting to see the

32:25

change happening. And while everybody else was going,

32:27

they can't do that, they can't say that,

32:29

the TV network, we're telling us, they can't

32:32

do that, they can't say that. He was

32:34

being like, man, they. What the crowd is

32:36

reacting to these guys. Is this around like

32:38

the same time Stern is popping off too?

32:40

Yes. So it's cultural. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As

32:42

we always said in the documentary did a

32:45

brilliant job of displaying. It's like, you know,

32:47

wrestling is this great reflection of culture. Yeah.

32:49

It's a mirror of what is happening. Sometimes

32:51

we're in front of it. Sometimes we're just

32:53

following it. Yeah. But there's a mirror of

32:56

sort of what is happening. And I think

32:58

about that period of that period of that

33:00

period of time like, like, like, you know,

33:02

You know, we were pulling our pants down

33:04

on TV and tell people suck it and

33:06

all the stuff. You gotta get a picture

33:09

and an apron. Our suck a cook. Yeah,

33:11

not the cop. Invited to the cook. That's

33:13

right. Invited to the cook. That's what you

33:15

got to work. But it was totally correct,

33:17

because we didn't put the you and suck.

33:19

And we didn't put the you and suck.

33:22

But I believe he was starting to see,

33:24

you know, Austin's a bit edgy, or we're

33:26

big edgy, and that stuff's really starting to

33:28

get a reaction. It's not following yet necessarily

33:30

ratings or whatever, but the crowd is telling

33:33

us that's where we want to go. And

33:35

again, you're seeing Stern, you know, like the

33:37

more COVID shows and all these shows are

33:39

like so edgy, the Springer. There's a lot

33:41

of I can't believe I'm seeing this. Yeah.

33:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember there was a,

33:46

I remember there was a show like there

33:48

was a show like there was a show

33:50

like, there was a show like, there was

33:52

a show like, like, like, like, Was it

33:54

Hill Street Blues or something like that where

33:56

the actor at the time, and I remember

33:59

his name, Dennis? friends. It was a scene

34:01

where he, you know, he's at his like

34:03

apartment or something and he comes

34:05

out and he walks down a

34:07

hallway and they show his naked

34:09

ass on TV for like, you

34:11

know. 30 seconds white deliverance. Yeah,

34:13

but it was like, yeah, people

34:15

lost their minds. How could they

34:17

do that? Yeah, we were like,

34:19

this is funny. Yeah, I'm so

34:21

I connect the South Park and

34:23

wrestling. I feel like I watch

34:25

both of those. Yeah, it was

34:27

like being inappropriate was very cool.

34:29

There's like, rebellious nature happening in

34:31

media and entertainment. So there's a

34:33

moment in time where Vince

34:36

comes to us now that

34:38

he's getting so much shit

34:40

from the network. Yeah, same

34:42

time. Yeah. Yeah. So it's

34:45

like every form of media.

34:47

Everything is rebellious and over-the-top,

34:49

like, attitude and, um, holy

34:51

shit. And this is what

34:53

year? Shock TV. Is it

34:56

late 90s, probably? 96-ish. Like

34:58

Olympus, kid, like, brick shit.

35:00

Yeah, so 80s is like,

35:02

prim, proper, everybody's got the

35:04

suit on, hair, slick, back. It's

35:07

the over correction. And. We are

35:09

the overcorrection. Yeah. And we're pushing

35:11

it to an extreme and do

35:14

things on that. There's a moment

35:16

where the USA network was like, you

35:18

know, we'd come back from the ring

35:20

and Vincent be like, you crazy gonna

35:22

get kicked off the fucking air. Like

35:24

USA is pissed, like you gotta stop

35:27

this shit. You know, I have no

35:29

choice but to fire you guys, right?

35:31

We're like, whatever. They're going

35:33

crazy to some degree. You could

35:35

say whatever to me were concerned. No,

35:37

we were thinking whatever. Yeah, we weren't

35:40

saying it. Yeah. And then there was

35:42

two things on that. One is at

35:44

one point USA was out of their

35:46

mind. We did a show and they

35:49

sent us a letter that there's a

35:51

skit that we do that is,

35:53

it looked like a presidential Clinton

35:55

had just done the, I did

35:57

not have sex with that, you

35:59

know, sex. relations with that young

36:01

intern. He had just done that

36:04

speech. USA Network sends us a

36:06

letter saying, and it was ridiculous,

36:08

like, DX has gone too far.

36:10

So from, here's the controls, from

36:12

the hours of eight to nine,

36:14

they can no longer say these

36:17

words, they can no longer say

36:19

this. These words are acceptable, these

36:21

are not. Raw was eight to

36:23

11, I believe, right? Yeah. So

36:25

it was eight to 11, I

36:27

believe, right? Yeah, two hours. You know,

36:29

during the 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock

36:32

hour, they can say these words, but

36:34

they can't say these. And we were

36:36

like, this is ridiculous. And Vince came

36:38

to us and he was like,

36:40

you guys happy? No? They put

36:42

restrictions on us. And this is what we

36:45

can and can't do. What do we

36:47

want to do here? And we were

36:49

like, this is going to sound fucked

36:51

up, but let us use that. Let

36:54

us use that. We'll do a skit

36:56

tonight tonight, go open. And it feels

36:58

so much more real to the audience

37:01

because this is a real memo that

37:03

you've gotten from USA Networks. So we

37:05

do this presidential, almost like this, we're

37:08

in the Oval Office, and we do

37:10

this presidential thing, but it breaks down

37:12

between Sean and I where he's like,

37:15

God damn it, I'm like, you can't

37:17

say that, dude, shut the fuck on

37:19

it. And you're like, we're swearing, they're

37:21

beeping out the swears, and that's sort

37:24

of the skit. We do it and

37:26

you know I think Vince was

37:28

partially nervous and he's a rebel

37:30

in a maverick spirit so I

37:33

think partially he was like fuck

37:35

yeah and We put it out there

37:37

and then next week we got

37:39

a letter back from USA. Congratulations

37:41

on the ratings. Funny how you

37:43

used our thing against us. But

37:46

it worked. Congratulations. And that was

37:48

the last day, Chris. At this

37:50

point, does Vince start to realize

37:52

this thing that you're trying to

37:54

usher in, which is blending reality

37:56

and wrestling? Yes. And same with

37:58

Steve and some other. People characters start

38:00

to change. They're open to me not being called

38:02

Hunter Hearst Helmsi anymore. Like, hey, what do you want

38:04

to be known as? He came to me and was

38:07

like, you want to use your real name? And

38:09

I think, yeah, not really. I have time and stuff

38:11

invested in this. Everybody called me Triple H backstage. I

38:13

was like, let's just break it down to the nickname

38:15

Triple H. And slowly over time, I'll change the character

38:18

from what I am to where I want it to

38:20

where I want it to be. And he was

38:22

like, and he was like, and he was like, and

38:24

he was like, and he was like, But there also

38:26

comes a time where now you're talking about like

38:28

scripted and what he can control and he can't

38:30

convince a control freak. Yeah. So one time

38:33

we walk into TV and I didn't consider

38:35

that. You could push his hands now now

38:37

that we're blending things from the real world

38:39

and the wrestling world. You could do something

38:41

in the real world that forces him to

38:43

incorporate it in a story in the rest.

38:45

Yeah. So if you were control freak, you're

38:47

like, I can't let the inmates run the

38:49

asylum. Okay, so how does he handle this?

38:52

And so he's blending, he's trying to blend

38:54

his position from being the boss and us

38:56

doing what we want to do. And I'll

38:58

tell two stories about one. So one is that we walk into

39:00

TV one day and Sean walks. I walk in and he walks up to

39:02

me. He's like, have you seen this yet? I'm like, no, what's that? He's like,

39:04

what do you mean the script? He's like, this is what they want us to

39:06

say tonight. And I read it. And I read it. And I read it. And

39:08

I'm like, and I'm like, it. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible.

39:10

It's terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's

39:12

terrible. It's terrible. It's terrible. And he's

39:15

terrible. And he's terrible. And he's like,

39:17

and he's terrible. And he's like, and

39:19

he's like, and he's like, and he's

39:21

like, What a fucking doing that. Wait,

39:23

you never had scripts before for any

39:25

of the promos you could? He would

39:27

give us the premise of what, you

39:29

know, you need to talk about this

39:31

or whatever, and we'd go out and

39:33

do our own thing. It's probably easier

39:35

than memorizing like a whole script. Yeah,

39:38

sure. But when you're

39:40

working with multiple people.

39:42

Businesses had been flowed in

39:44

this manner, right? And he's like,

39:46

I want you to say. And Sean's

39:48

the elder guy now, so he's he's

39:51

the stage man for the group and

39:53

he says He goes well fuck now

39:55

that this thing's over you guys are

39:57

gonna tell us how to do it

39:59

and And then goes, yeah, that's what

40:01

I want you to say. And Sean goes,

40:03

well, it sucks. And I'm not fucking saying

40:06

it. And Vince goes, well, I need you

40:08

to go out there and I want you

40:10

to read, say what's on that paper.

40:12

I want you to read it. And

40:14

Sean goes, here's the fucking problem. You

40:16

think like the honeymooners is funny. We

40:18

think Beavis and Butthead is funny. And

40:20

you don't even know what that shit

40:22

is. He said, you're not in touch

40:24

with these kids. This is not what we

40:26

do and Vince goes well. I don't care. That's

40:28

what I want you to say and this is

40:31

where Sean Sometimes Sean would do shit and I

40:33

would think like how is this guy get away

40:35

with this without getting fired like he really crumpled

40:37

up the paper and threw it at Vince and

40:39

bounced it off his chest He said why he

40:41

fuck the saying it? He walked out of

40:43

the office and I was like yeah

40:46

I'm on the way out. You're like

40:48

who left and then he went and

40:50

did our shit But, holy shit, that's

40:52

why. I think it's so different from

40:54

the perception. But it, but it, but

40:56

it's, you have to understand, he sees

40:58

it working. And he, what he

41:00

truly cares about is what works.

41:02

Yeah. So he's trying to exert

41:04

power and force, but at the

41:06

same time, you know, as long

41:08

as it works, he's going to

41:10

ride it. Yes. He never, you

41:12

better go, if you're going to

41:15

say, fuck you, you ain't saying

41:17

that. Otherwise, you're out. You see

41:19

you. Thanks for coming. Do you think

41:21

the pressure he was putting on you

41:23

guys was from like the old guard

41:25

that wanted him to do some the classic

41:28

way? Yeah, to a degree. And also he's

41:30

fighting that. He's the old guard also.

41:32

So he's fighting it. But he's seeing

41:34

like this is not ratings or ratings.

41:37

Yeah, this is God damn. This is

41:39

crazy. This is not our business. But

41:41

yet again, right. And then once he

41:43

now once he realizes like. Okay, shit's

41:46

on. Once he learns it. And he

41:48

applies in this war with W.C.W.

41:50

where we're getting our ass handed to

41:52

us. Yeah. And he realizes like, wow,

41:55

all of a sudden now D.X. Austin

41:57

at the front, forefront of

41:59

that. DX, Austin, you know, all these guys

42:01

that it's starting to change. We're starting to

42:03

pick up momentum now again. So now he's

42:06

going with it because he's in a he's

42:08

he's in a war. So one thing about

42:10

Vince, he ain't losing. So he'll do anything

42:12

to one. He fucking. Sorry, when you look

42:14

back on that paper moment, D, the script,

42:16

is there any part of you? I just

42:18

think Vince is such like a kind of

42:20

a, he's playing chess guy. Do you think

42:22

he's like he's playing chess guy? He's like,

42:24

he's like, he's like, he's, he's, he's, he's,

42:27

he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

42:29

he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

42:31

he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

42:33

he's, he's Maybe. This is just going to

42:35

rile them up and go cut a better.

42:37

But there's also this interesting thing with him.

42:39

I remember one time, we did a, I

42:41

don't remember what it was about, but we

42:43

did a, we did a promo where I

42:45

was going to cut a promo on Vince.

42:48

Okay. This is without him knowing. This is

42:50

he knows I'm gonna cut a promo. Yeah,

42:52

but it's live TV But on Vince. Yes,

42:54

I'm gonna he knows I'm gonna cut a

42:56

promo on him And he's going to be

42:58

out there because at this point. He's still

43:00

an interviewer That's right. He's he hasn't become

43:02

the boss the Montreal thing hasn't happened. So

43:04

so this is important that everybody is understanding

43:06

right now. So at this point on there

43:09

is no like blend, right, with his role

43:11

in his character. People know he's the boss,

43:13

but he's the interviewer. And we're starting to

43:15

blend that where we're telling people he's the

43:17

boss and he runs it, but he's still

43:19

interviewing people like he's not. Right. So we

43:21

haven't fully just gone all in. He doesn't

43:23

become Mr. McMahon, the boss owner, until the

43:25

Bret Hart Montreal stuff happens. Then he goes

43:27

fully in on. Right. Yeah. But so we're

43:29

about to go out there and cut this

43:32

promo and cut this promo and then. And

43:34

who is they? Just the creative and Vince

43:36

is like, yeah, so when, hey, when we

43:38

get out there, you know, Sean's gonna go

43:40

off on me, I need you to go

43:42

off on me, cut a promo on me.

43:44

And I'm like, so I go to him

43:46

beforehand and I'm like, hey, how, how hard

43:48

do you want me to go on you?

43:50

And he's like, say whatever you want. So

43:53

we get out there and I don't even

43:55

remember what I said, but I start to

43:57

cut the promo on the promo on them.

44:00

Ben's very intense person. So as I

44:02

start to get the promo on him,

44:04

all of a sudden I see his

44:06

eyes change and his whole demeanor changes

44:08

and I'm like, fuck. Yeah. I just

44:11

crossed the line here and like, and

44:13

but I finished the promo and I

44:15

can see now he's like that whatever

44:17

I said, I don't even remember what

44:19

it was, sort of stuck with him.

44:22

And so when we came back and

44:24

he came back a little later, I

44:26

was like, hey, you okay, you okay

44:28

with that promo that promo? And he

44:31

was like, he was like, yeah, it's

44:33

fucking fine. What he was basically saying

44:35

is, yeah, you cross the line with

44:37

me, but it was good business. It

44:39

was good business. It was good business.

44:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, if

44:44

it was good for business, he was

44:46

all in. Right. And that was the

44:48

thing. So to go back to the

44:50

original story, which is the stone gold

44:53

stuff. Yeah, so I get punished for

44:55

King of the Ring. I'm not going

44:57

to be King of the Ring. I'm

44:59

out, all that stuff. Who they put

45:02

in that spot is sort of coming

45:04

out of similar thing. The ringmaster Steve

45:06

Austin, who was just like this technically

45:08

gifted wrestler, Steve hates it. Steve goes

45:10

and pitches to Vince. I don't like

45:13

this character. I want to do my

45:15

own thing. Stone Gold, Steve Austin starts

45:17

to form. So. They take me out

45:19

of the spot. They go with Steve.

45:22

Steve wins King of the Ring and

45:24

cuts the Austin 316 promo. Well, keep

45:26

in mind, he's going against Jake the

45:28

Snake, who at the time became very

45:30

religious. Yes. Which is a really important

45:33

thing to understand. 100% so there's signs

45:35

everywhere John 316 in support of Jake

45:37

Roberts because he's very religious, because he's

45:39

sort of reformed. Evangelical. And so Steve

45:41

goes out there and cuts this Austin

45:44

316 promo, which at the time, I

45:46

believe, Vince was pissed about and hated

45:48

it. You cross the line and the

45:50

religion. Yeah, like this is terrible. It's

45:53

all this thing. And I believe they

45:55

went with the Austin. Everybody else was

45:57

like, not everybody, but there's a few

45:59

people who were like, I'm telling you

46:01

that was, did you hear the reaction?

46:04

It was great. They made the first

46:06

Austin three 16 shirts as a Vince

46:08

was like, I make those shirts. I

46:10

guarantee you none of them sell. And

46:13

they did it and then they sold

46:15

and Vince was like, this is great.

46:17

But the line was, he goes, yeah,

46:19

you got your, you got your, you

46:21

got your John 316, well, Austin 316

46:24

said, I just warped your ass. Yes.

46:26

And it's just off the cuff. Yes.

46:28

If he's wrestling, anybody else who's non-religious,

46:30

he never says it and then ends

46:32

up becoming. That is like the defining.

46:35

Yes. Line I think for stone calls

46:37

character. Yeah, awesome three like I just

46:39

today I had a shirt to get

46:41

to this day Austin three 16 shirts

46:44

are still one of our biggest selling

46:46

I think people know Austin three 16

46:48

more than John three 16 Like the

46:50

world is more aware of Austin 3.

46:52

So I don't know John 316 to

46:55

this day. Yeah, I don't know at

46:57

all. I started watching for like a

46:59

few years in the attitude era after

47:01

the Austin 316 and I'm not a

47:04

Christian kid. So I was like, what

47:06

is that like a time of day

47:08

that he did somebody else? Oh, yeah.

47:10

Okay. So, what's happened? You're watching this

47:12

transpire, right? That's supposed to be your

47:15

shot. supposed to have that moment, you're

47:17

supposed to cut some problem, Hunter 316.

47:19

Hunter, here's the thing. Are you pissed?

47:21

Is there a part of you that's

47:23

excited for him if you accept a

47:26

different fate? Steve was one of the

47:28

few guys, like Steve, when I started

47:30

in WCW he was there stunning Steve

47:32

Austin, he's in the middle somewhere, but

47:35

he's one of the guys that was

47:37

like I'm a new kid coming in

47:39

the door and you know that's at

47:41

that time, especially very tough in the

47:43

business. breaking in and I'm young and

47:46

trying to get started. Steve was one

47:48

of the few guys that would talk

47:50

to me a lot and like come

47:52

over and say like hey dude I

47:55

noticed you were doing this maybe try

47:57

that whatever like dude this is and

47:59

the parallels with comedy are funny because

48:01

I remember every like OG comedian that

48:03

was nice to me coming up there

48:06

was kind to you that helped you

48:08

because there aren't a lot right exactly.

48:10

Exactly, they are not a lot and

48:12

far more just ignore you or you're

48:14

in the way or and you remember

48:17

those moments. You're just ignored. Yeah, and

48:19

yeah, and so Steve was one of

48:21

those guys. So even when Steve came

48:23

in and, you know, I liked him

48:26

a lot and it's a weird thing

48:28

in the business like once that wasn't

48:30

happening for me, I just put it

48:32

out of my mind and I was

48:34

happy for Steve. As my career progressed

48:37

later. It's a funny thing how life

48:39

works like I look back at that

48:41

now and I think if I wasn't

48:43

ready I fucking wasn't ready yeah and

48:45

I thought I was yeah you always

48:48

think you always think you right and

48:50

you believe that you're ready I was

48:52

not yeah they would have put me

48:54

in that role I wouldn't have cut

48:57

my version of an Austin 316. I

48:59

wouldn't have been ready. It would have

49:01

floundered and I probably would have. It's

49:03

a great way of looking at it.

49:05

Yeah. And I know that now. I

49:08

can look back at that and say

49:10

like I was pissed at the time

49:12

or I was upset or disappointed. I

49:14

was using it to fuel me to

49:17

do other things and become something more.

49:19

But the truth is I would have

49:21

fucked that up. Because when you only

49:23

know the rise and the success and

49:25

you go you have some success W

49:28

CW then you come over to WW

49:30

and you're starting to rise and then

49:32

all of a sudden you get the

49:34

king ring and then you're online to

49:36

get the bell and then you get

49:39

the bell you constantly have this monkey

49:41

on your back where you're like fuck

49:43

what if it all goes away but

49:45

once you've accepted it all going away.

49:48

It's already gone away and what have

49:50

I, I just came back from it.

49:52

It was fine. Yeah, I just worked

49:54

through it. So now you have that

49:56

courage to be like, okay, I'll go

49:59

heel, I'll fuck it up all over

50:01

again where I bet a lot of

50:03

guys and I'm curious your take on

50:05

this, but like they're at the top,

50:08

they're a baby face and they're probably

50:10

reluctant to go heel because they might

50:12

go, what if I never get this

50:14

chance to get this chance to get

50:16

it? of being a baby. Oh, no,

50:19

being a baby face, because if you're

50:21

a baby face and they start to

50:23

boo you, you're failing. Oh, that's different

50:25

pressure. Yeah. Boo you as a bad

50:27

guy. You're doing good? It's easy to

50:30

make somebody pissed off at you. Yes.

50:32

I actually even, yeah, have you even

50:34

thought about this? Well, and even just

50:36

think about it this way, if you're

50:39

trying to piss them off, but they

50:41

start to like you. Awesome. Why you

50:43

find a lot of cool bad guys.

50:45

Like we're supposed to be kind of

50:47

here and then you start bullying the

50:50

baby faces and then you guys kind

50:52

of become Baby faces well we were

50:54

bad guys what and then Sean gets

50:56

injured and Sean leaves and I've reformed

50:59

the group with these other guys right

51:01

in that moment we almost like they're

51:03

so excited to see the group carry

51:05

on yeah and the stuff we just

51:07

transitioned who we were doing it to

51:10

to the other side and we W

51:12

at that point time time time is

51:14

on the attack. We DX do the

51:16

unthinkable and we go to their show.

51:18

I go to their show with a

51:21

fucking tank and my crew and I'm

51:23

firing shots at the, like fake shots

51:25

at the building and on a megaphone,

51:27

you know, yelling at their fans and

51:30

we're outside and it's like a riot.

51:32

We go to their shows unthinkable. But

51:34

it made us like the real badest.

51:36

Yeah, and now like, hey, these degenerates

51:38

that six months ago we hated. And

51:41

literally Sean and I had gotten to

51:43

a point where we had some riots

51:45

in towns because we, people didn't like

51:47

us so much. Now all of a

51:50

sudden we're like, it's probably because we're

51:52

defending the. the brand. Guys very quickly

51:54

we have to interrupt this episode to

51:56

give some credit for probably the biggest

51:58

sports fan on the panel Mark Gagnon.

52:01

Let's go for having the only winning

52:03

bracket in the United States of America.

52:05

He called the number one seed winning

52:07

it. I can't believe it. I mean,

52:09

how did you put that together? How

52:12

did you? I don't understand. This is

52:14

what makes Mark's Madness so amazing. You

52:16

never know what's gonna happen. You call

52:18

Mark's Madness? It is Mark's Madness, right

52:21

now. Exactly. Mark's Madness, bro. I just

52:23

had a feeling. I'm from Florida. I

52:25

just had faith in the gator. Now,

52:27

did you go to stake the leader

52:29

in the U. A. Social. So I'm

52:32

up, I'm up, I'm up big. I

52:34

was like a basically a 10x win.

52:36

Okay, now that we know that you

52:38

can literally predict sporting events. Yes. Are

52:40

there a strong win's third term? I

52:43

have a good feel. She's running back.

52:45

So, outside of that, guaranteed victory. Yeah,

52:47

yeah. What about UFC, what do we

52:49

have, three, 14? Yeah, what about about

52:52

about Volk, is he going to pull

52:54

it off? Yeah, 100%? So that would

52:56

be considered a top sport. Who's he

52:58

fighting him? He's playing Diego, not Diego

53:00

Lopez. Because that changes things a little

53:03

bit, depending on who he's fighting. How

53:05

you know he's going to win? But

53:07

what I'm saying, he's going to win,

53:09

it just depends who he's fighting. But

53:12

what I'm saying, he's going to win,

53:14

it just depends who he's fighting. But

53:16

what I'm saying, he's going to win,

53:18

it just depends who he's going to

53:20

win. He's a second round knockout. To

53:23

me, I don't know. I think he's

53:25

saying Diego Lopez sucks. Well, let's get

53:27

a picture of Daniel. I'll talk shit

53:29

about all the guys who don't speak

53:31

good enough English to come on the

53:34

pot. Yeah, Leon Edwards, great guy. Yeah,

53:36

good enough. That guy's a good fighter.

53:38

Both these guys are bad ass. Yeah,

53:40

yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, no,

53:43

no. He's got Schultz's old hair. What's

53:45

going on? Yeah, no, that's right now

53:47

I got for a show. Okay, so

53:49

if you were going to bet on,

53:51

if you're going to bet on USA

53:54

314 and other top sports and political

53:56

events, use the promo flagrant for your

53:58

welcome bonus at stake, man. Go to

54:00

stake right now. Now let's get back

54:03

to this interview. I don't want to

54:05

brush this one part off, yes, I

54:07

think it's very important in your lure.

54:09

Sean is like a bad back injury,

54:11

right? Yes. I think he wrestles, who's

54:14

he wrestles, uh, Wrestlemanias, it's don't cost.

54:16

Yeah, he wrestles Austin's, and then I

54:18

think Mike Tyson is the ref, like

54:20

massive match. Ozzy puts Austin over, retires

54:22

for a little bit, right? Because of

54:25

the back, right? I'm on the rise,

54:27

but I'm in the middle somewhere. Sure,

54:29

but like you're connected to Sean. Now,

54:31

or before you maybe connected to the

54:34

click, even though it was backstage, but

54:36

there was a connection. So this is

54:38

the first time in your career where

54:40

now you are at the helm. Yes.

54:42

And you asked Vince, and I remember

54:45

you cut a promo where you like

54:47

acknowledge Sean, but then you very quickly

54:49

move on. Can you just tell me

54:51

what's going on through your head right

54:54

there? Because it's a big transition. So

54:56

when we were doing DX Sean Sean

54:58

Sean and I were, we had wanted

55:00

to make the group bigger. We liked

55:02

Road Dog and we liked Billy Gun.

55:05

Yeah. Billy Gun. Xbox was actually in

55:07

W.C.W. at the time. Right. So we

55:09

had said, look, Road Dog was like

55:11

Jesse James and Billy was rockabilly. I

55:13

mean, it was terrible, terrible and shit.

55:16

We were like, look, put these guys

55:18

together as a tag team. Let them

55:20

start to do their own thing when

55:22

the time is right. We'll pull them

55:25

in but let them do their own

55:27

thing right now, and they're loosely associated

55:29

with us We would do things like

55:31

for example They were trying to get

55:33

going the X was pretty over They

55:36

wanted to do a program with new-age

55:38

outlaws in the road warriors road warriors

55:40

didn't want to do it They wanted

55:42

to work with us We just shot

55:45

an angle with them on TV where

55:47

we beat the shit out of we

55:49

shave hawks Mohawk off and all this

55:51

stuff They thought rulers are they were

55:53

getting into a storyline with DX What

55:56

we did was, as soon as we

55:58

started to get the heat, we let

56:00

Billy and Roaddog do it, and we

56:02

kind of stood off to the side.

56:04

And they did all the big damage,

56:07

and they ended up, Rogler's ended up

56:09

in a program with them, which they

56:11

didn't want to be in, right? We

56:13

just, we just backed out of it.

56:16

So, we had had those guys associated

56:18

with us, but not with us. Sean

56:20

gets injured, Sean goes to Wrestleania, which

56:22

is like this nightmare. legendary drug problems

56:24

and all this stuff. But now Sean

56:27

goes away and I think a lot

56:29

of people thought that was it. I'm

56:31

done, you know, I'm never going to

56:33

get past where I am, whatever. We

56:35

talked about reef, like, let me take

56:38

to hell. And what is your pitch?

56:40

Sort of, let's do the same group

56:42

of let me take to hell. Let's

56:44

bring in Billy and... and Roaddog, New

56:47

Age Out laws, which were kind of

56:49

over on their own now, let's put

56:51

them in it, will reform DX, and

56:53

Xbox, whose contract he was in WCCW,

56:55

so he would bring him back over.

56:58

His contract was up and he couldn't,

57:00

he was dying to get out of

57:02

there, because at that point, they were

57:04

pretty fucked up, the whole group. So

57:07

he left, the timing was perfect, so

57:09

he just... signed with us, he popped

57:11

over, so the night after WrestleMania, whatever

57:13

it is, I go out there and

57:15

I cut a promo basically on Sean

57:18

saying like, you told me Tyson was

57:20

good, he wasn't, you told me you

57:22

had this, don't worry about it kid,

57:24

and you didn't. You know, like it

57:26

was a problem? Well, you're out. I'm

57:29

in. So now... So you act as

57:31

if you kick him out of the

57:33

game? Yeah, now I'm taking the fucking

57:35

lead. So now, what do you do

57:38

if you need to start an army?

57:40

You go find your friends, you go

57:42

find your blood, right? You find your

57:44

soldiers, I bring in the new age

57:46

outlaws, I bring in kid. Are you

57:49

scared at all? Are you like, maybe,

57:51

is there like, what is that called,

57:53

imposter syndrome happening at all? Where they

57:55

only like, they only like Sean? You

57:58

know, everybody else is saying this isn't

58:00

gonna work. There's a lot of people,

58:02

this isn't gonna work. So what makes

58:04

it work? We made it work because

58:06

it some people would say did it

58:09

got even bigger it got even bigger

58:11

okay it did it got even bigger

58:13

and that was the thing so that

58:15

the at that point you know and

58:17

we still in China with me which

58:20

she was a good of that thing

58:22

but sort of in that in that

58:24

realm you know I knew that night

58:26

when I went out there to cut

58:29

that promo with kid and Billy and

58:31

all that stuff and restart the group

58:33

it needed to be to be Like

58:35

I needed to go out there and

58:37

hit a home run or they're gonna,

58:40

Vince is very quickly gonna go everybody's

58:42

right and move on because he's believing

58:44

in it. Yep. And he wants to

58:46

see it work so he's giving me

58:49

the ball. And we just went out

58:51

there and I mean, in my opinion,

58:53

we knocked it out of the park

58:55

and then they went with it and

58:57

the rest is history, you know. It

59:00

was set up well and we had

59:02

other people to work with Nation. The

59:04

domination was coming up at that point

59:06

in time with Rock and all that

59:08

stuff. So we had all these other

59:11

people to work with and it just

59:13

took off and we would just do

59:15

the crazy shit and then sort of

59:17

as we, that version of the group

59:20

started to become popular and then we

59:22

get into the WCW stuff where we

59:24

go on the attack after them and

59:26

then it's just game changer. So when

59:28

you go on the attack, right, now

59:31

we're blending the world again. That's a

59:33

real business rivalry. this is not you

59:35

know scripted storylines here this is you

59:37

guys are beefing and you are attacking

59:40

their brand yes and at this point

59:42

is Vince completely on with having to

59:44

blend the world and now wrestling is

59:46

has to be more real yes and

59:48

he's also into the whatever it takes

59:51

gloves are off whatever it takes so

59:53

there's no more like protecting the old

59:55

guard no the old guard is there's

59:57

a moment where when we're gonna do

59:59

the first attack at W cw we're

1:00:02

gonna go because what they were doing

1:00:04

was If we were going into an

1:00:06

arena, they would book one of their

1:00:08

TV shows, like either same time or

1:00:11

right the four hours, so that our

1:00:13

ticket sales would tank, right? You know,

1:00:15

it's booking the club down the street.

1:00:17

Yep, yep. You're trying to kill you,

1:00:19

right? And that was what was pissing

1:00:22

us off. Well, they were right down

1:00:24

the street. It was their show. We

1:00:26

rolled up with the tank. So we

1:00:28

rolled up with a tank. And when

1:00:30

we were getting ready to go do

1:00:33

it. Our show at that point in

1:00:35

time, we were like, they were live

1:00:37

like an hour earlier than we were.

1:00:39

And then we were live later. So

1:00:42

we go there early, we shoot this

1:00:44

stuff and we bring it back. And

1:00:46

before we leave, we're all standing in

1:00:48

a group because the only one that

1:00:50

knew about this prior to us doing

1:00:53

it was me. I was on a

1:00:55

call with Vince and a few other

1:00:57

guys on the writing team. Billy. and

1:00:59

dog and kid didn't know anything about

1:01:02

it. They came to me like, see

1:01:04

a military shit our, Mark Logan, like

1:01:06

what the fuck are we doing? And

1:01:08

I was like, dude, I can't tell

1:01:10

you yet. Vince wants to tell you

1:01:13

guys, but I'm telling it's fucking bad

1:01:15

ass. And it all stemmed off of

1:01:17

a phone call where we were on

1:01:19

and they were like down the road

1:01:21

and Vince was pissed and on that

1:01:24

phone call was said like, like, let's

1:01:26

flat out, I'd like to drive a

1:01:28

drive a tank to drive a tank

1:01:30

down there and just fucking go nuts.

1:01:33

Ding. Why don't we do that? Right?

1:01:35

And, but anyway, so somebody says when

1:01:37

we get. We're in the back in

1:01:39

ready to go and they were like,

1:01:41

look, we're going to go down there

1:01:44

and do this early, but we're not

1:01:46

on the area. What if they finish

1:01:48

their show and they send a truckload

1:01:50

of guys down here to our show,

1:01:53

like we probably should get extra security

1:01:55

and have this all beefed up so

1:01:57

they can't. And Vince goes, why? If

1:01:59

they roll up with a truck full

1:02:01

of wrestlers, here he goes, open the

1:02:04

fucking door up and let them in.

1:02:06

What show you're going to watch? What

1:02:08

with no wrestlers? What with no wrestlers

1:02:10

on with no wrestlers on with all

1:02:12

the one with all the one with

1:02:15

all the wrestlers on? With all the

1:02:17

wrestlers on. And I was like, this

1:02:19

guy gets it. This is why we're

1:02:21

going to win. Yeah. Yeah. And because

1:02:24

what they did when we got there,

1:02:26

we tried to go in their building.

1:02:28

Oh, they went down the ramp and

1:02:30

they put the door down. Wow. And

1:02:32

they stopped this. And you're filming this

1:02:35

whole time. We're filming the whole time

1:02:37

banging on the door. Yeah. You're supposed

1:02:39

to want to let them. Well. Yeah.

1:02:41

Now they look scared. Yeah. You weren't

1:02:44

worried at all shit getting real. This

1:02:46

is so stupid, we had like a

1:02:48

whole contingency plan of where like, if

1:02:50

they come out, if somebody touches one

1:02:52

of us, we had like a fake

1:02:55

camera and a real camera. If somebody

1:02:57

touches one of us, I'm going to

1:02:59

go down and because they'll come at

1:03:01

me first. I'm gonna make such a

1:03:03

commotion that everybody will look to me.

1:03:06

Switch out the cameras, take the real

1:03:08

tape and get the fuck out of

1:03:10

you. So you destroy the camera you

1:03:12

smash it do something whatever I got

1:03:15

to do it it doesn't matter Do

1:03:17

whatever I got to do got it,

1:03:19

but but so you're willing to get

1:03:21

your ass beaten. Yeah, but the rest

1:03:23

are gonna. Okay. All right everybody will

1:03:26

talk shit and stuff like that but

1:03:28

for the most part they know the

1:03:30

business too yeah and so what's funny

1:03:32

is we're outside doing this Kevin Nash

1:03:35

is coming back from the gym with

1:03:37

Lex Lugar and he like looks over

1:03:39

he's like somebody's got a tank on

1:03:41

the side of the business which really

1:03:43

just a jeep with a cannon on

1:03:46

it it's all so on so you

1:03:48

call it a tank yeah it's a

1:03:50

wrangler it's a wrangler it is become

1:03:52

a tank over the other was never

1:03:54

a tank yet and um But Kevin

1:03:57

said he's like stuck in traffic. They're

1:03:59

coming back from the gym and now

1:04:01

he pokes his head out the sunroof

1:04:03

and he's like, looks like hunter, what

1:04:06

are they doing? You know, so he

1:04:08

goes in the building now and they

1:04:10

used to call their production office the

1:04:12

war room. Yeah. And Kevin goes into

1:04:14

war room and he said like they're

1:04:17

all in there talking about the show

1:04:19

and stuff and he goes, he's like

1:04:21

looking around the room and he goes,

1:04:23

none of you guys are concerned with

1:04:25

what's going on outside, huh? And they're

1:04:28

like, what are you talking about? And

1:04:30

he goes, DX? outside the building, shooting

1:04:32

a cannon off and with a loud

1:04:34

horn and thousands of fans all around

1:04:37

them. Like none of you worried about

1:04:39

that shit? And they were like, what?

1:04:41

Then you know, that's how they got

1:04:43

informed of it. Hilarious. And then that's

1:04:45

when we started coming down a ramp

1:04:48

and that's when they shut them. Do

1:04:50

you think other wrestlers in W. knew

1:04:52

it was over at that point? I

1:04:54

think for the most part the guys

1:04:57

in W.C.W. were less concerned about the

1:04:59

company and more concerned about it. They're

1:05:01

paying me a ton of money and

1:05:03

I don't work much. So it's interesting,

1:05:05

it's like the incentive structure is makes

1:05:08

you want to put other guys over.

1:05:10

This might also be your personality, but

1:05:12

even when you're telling these stories, you're

1:05:14

talking about putting other guys over, which

1:05:16

seems like the right thing to do

1:05:19

for the business. It's a very rare

1:05:21

thing in a narcissistic endeavor, which is

1:05:23

entertainment, that there's someone who's going, how

1:05:25

else can I put these different people

1:05:28

over? What can I do? You even

1:05:30

talking about the different groups, right? Yeah,

1:05:32

you're going to bring them into the

1:05:34

expert. They're not ready. Once we, at

1:05:36

this point, we'll do it. W.C.W.'s incentive

1:05:39

structure is just show up. You don't

1:05:41

have to worry about the business at

1:05:43

all. And at that point, it had

1:05:45

started to become, it doesn't even matter

1:05:48

if you show up. Your pay is

1:05:50

guaranteed. Oh, wow. I'm injured. I can't

1:05:52

wrestle you fast forward Not long after

1:05:54

that because it was this was Austin

1:05:56

was champ and Steve and I Wrestle

1:05:59

in Chicago at the Rosemont, which is

1:06:01

now all state arena and then the

1:06:03

United Center is on the other side

1:06:05

of town, right? They were at the

1:06:07

United Center the week before us. Same,

1:06:10

what I'm talking about, them booking, right?

1:06:12

We had booked Rosemont, they booked United

1:06:14

Center like the week before us. Steve

1:06:16

and I wrestled on a main event

1:06:19

that night, we probably went like 40

1:06:21

minutes. We give him a full on

1:06:23

paper view, like, because Rosemont's sold out,

1:06:25

like we're all in delivering on everything

1:06:27

we do. And so that night we

1:06:30

go back to hotels, a lot of

1:06:32

fans there. And on every end, people

1:06:34

telling us, like, dude, you guys killed

1:06:36

it. W.C.W. was here last week. We

1:06:39

went to that show, like six of

1:06:41

the top 10 guys didn't show up.

1:06:43

Wow. You know, the main event was

1:06:45

Goldberg versus Big Show. I mean, the

1:06:47

giant at the time. Giant walked out

1:06:50

smoking a cigarette. They got in the

1:06:52

ring. Goldberg kicked him in the gut.

1:06:54

They just didn't, they didn't care, right?

1:06:56

We were fighting tooth and nail, like,

1:06:58

we're turning this thing around and they

1:07:01

didn't care and they were just, they

1:07:03

were phoning it in and I think

1:07:05

at that point, shit was so miserable

1:07:07

backstage that they were just, they were

1:07:10

phoning it in. Wow. And that's, you

1:07:12

know, that's the difference, right? Like at

1:07:14

the end of the day, so, you

1:07:16

know, we were getting to a place

1:07:18

where at that point. This

1:07:21

might take a little time, but we're

1:07:24

going to win this. We'll crush these

1:07:26

guys. Wow. I wanted to ask about

1:07:28

character development. You've mentioned a few different

1:07:30

wrestlers that, you know, you've kind of

1:07:32

been like, oh yeah, their gimmick at

1:07:34

that time wasn't that good. And even

1:07:37

in your own career, there's so many

1:07:39

different iterations before we get to Triple

1:07:41

H, the character that we know now.

1:07:43

So I'm curious. How do you develop

1:07:45

a wrestling character, find the wrestling voice,

1:07:47

the gimmicks that work? And if a

1:07:49

young wrestler came to you today, like,

1:07:52

hey, here's how I want to develop,

1:07:54

like, what advice would you give them?

1:07:56

It's part of the difficult aspect of

1:07:58

what we do is you teach somebody

1:08:00

to do the moves, you can teach

1:08:02

them when to do them. you can

1:08:04

kind of teach them crowd psychology, but

1:08:07

the charisma and who you are, your

1:08:09

character. It's like, you know, in comedy,

1:08:11

everybody's got like, not everybody, some people

1:08:13

just, very funny, other people have to

1:08:15

have a stick, right? And a gimmick

1:08:17

of what they are. And no one

1:08:20

can really tell you. And you know,

1:08:22

like, when I was a kid, Bobcat

1:08:24

Golfway was like a big thing, right?

1:08:26

He was like a crazy voice and

1:08:28

all the shit. Like nobody could go

1:08:30

to him and go, you know what

1:08:32

you should do? This will work. Yeah,

1:08:35

you know what you do. You should

1:08:37

affect your voice and do all this

1:08:39

crazy shit and stuff like that, right?

1:08:41

That was just him. It's really hard

1:08:43

to tell somebody how to go do

1:08:45

their thing. For us as we were

1:08:47

pulling into the attitude or whatever and

1:08:50

then... you know, end of the night,

1:08:52

he'd almost always say to me, dude,

1:08:54

when you figure out how to be

1:08:56

yourself on camera, you're going to make

1:08:58

a fortune. And I would always think,

1:09:00

what the fuck does that mean? Is

1:09:03

this while you're wearing the writing pants

1:09:05

and you have the bow in your

1:09:07

hair? Some of it, yeah. But when

1:09:09

you, even then, after, right, when we

1:09:11

start to, like, that was kind of

1:09:13

the him saying, like, DX was way

1:09:15

more us, but I still wasn't fully,

1:09:18

like, like, like, I was trying to

1:09:20

get out of the Hunterhurst Helmsley stuff.

1:09:22

I didn't feel like it was right

1:09:24

for me just to one day stop

1:09:26

and be something totally different. You have

1:09:28

to build to it. Yeah. So when

1:09:30

we get to the end of DX,

1:09:33

the run has baby faces. Yeah. There's

1:09:35

a moment where I go to Vince

1:09:37

and I'm like, I want to of

1:09:39

the group. And he was like, why?

1:09:41

I said I want to turn heel.

1:09:43

Austin is white. Rock is on his

1:09:46

way up, but he's going to be

1:09:48

a baby face a white meat baby

1:09:50

face like there's no So you felt

1:09:52

it early on he's so charismatic. There's

1:09:54

no way he doesn't become that baby

1:09:56

face. We need the Darth Vader in

1:09:58

this, right? You got two good guys.

1:10:01

This is so smart. You need the

1:10:03

bad guy. Yeah. I can, I'm confident

1:10:05

enough of myself, I can be that

1:10:07

bad guy, but I got to get

1:10:09

out of this group and I got

1:10:11

to make the shift. And the other

1:10:13

guys were like, what do you do?

1:10:16

Yeah, because you also white-hot, you're like,

1:10:18

why would you leave this? Yeah, don't

1:10:20

ride this into the ground. Yeah, right.

1:10:22

do this, like don't do it, I

1:10:24

was like, but this is not what

1:10:26

I want to do. So how, how,

1:10:28

because you understand the only way that

1:10:31

you're going to get those big main

1:10:33

events and then maybe get the belt,

1:10:35

is that you have to play something

1:10:37

opposite that is super white hot right

1:10:39

now. It's not even necessary, obviously everybody

1:10:41

wants to be champion at some point

1:10:44

in their career or something like that,

1:10:46

but it's not even about that, it's

1:10:48

about being on top, right? Right. Like,

1:10:50

like, you don't have to be champion.

1:10:52

You don't have to be champion. You

1:10:54

just got to be champion. the undertaker.

1:10:56

One of the thug guys, you know,

1:10:59

and that where your shit resonates and

1:11:01

sticks and stays generationally and all that

1:11:03

stuff, like how do you get into

1:11:05

that place? And I knew for me

1:11:07

it wasn't, while what we were doing

1:11:09

was amazing, that wasn't that wasn't the

1:11:11

setup for me. When I leave the

1:11:14

group, now it's a full transition. Now

1:11:16

I go to trunks, now I take

1:11:18

my hair down, I wet my hair,

1:11:20

I start growing a beard a little

1:11:22

bit like I start to grow, now

1:11:24

I become what I always envision myself

1:11:27

being as a performer. Yeah. And... I

1:11:29

sort of realized like takers words were

1:11:31

when you can be yourself when you

1:11:33

can just go out there and be

1:11:35

authentic Yep, but the hardest thing in

1:11:37

the world to do when a red

1:11:39

light is on you and there's 10,000

1:11:42

people there is go out and just

1:11:44

be you because it's because if you

1:11:46

fail as you if you fail as

1:11:48

you crush it and it's it's so

1:11:51

It's a scary proposition. You're naked out

1:11:53

there. Yeah, characters like a security blanket.

1:11:55

Of course. If you don't like that,

1:11:58

you don't like... If they hate the

1:12:00

character, they don't... you, when you start

1:12:02

being yourself, 100%, and so that, you

1:12:04

know, and that's still even then, that

1:12:06

becomes a transition of getting there over

1:12:08

time, but it's a scary proposition, but

1:12:11

I was all in on, I want

1:12:13

to take that gamble and I want

1:12:15

to see if I can get to

1:12:17

beat that guy. Okay, how many other

1:12:19

wrestlers, and now that you're the boss,

1:12:22

understand the game, like you understood it

1:12:24

at that time, and are coming to

1:12:26

you and asking similar questions? So there's

1:12:28

a lot of people that do. I

1:12:30

just had this conversation with Sean and

1:12:32

this will piss off everybody. I just

1:12:35

had this conversation with Sean and I

1:12:37

had it with Taker as well within

1:12:39

the last year. Because we were talking

1:12:41

about like people helping to guide the

1:12:43

business into the next generation and writing

1:12:46

and storytelling and all that stuff. And

1:12:48

I said to Sean first. I said

1:12:50

Sean. Think about your career. Everybody that

1:12:52

you've run up against in your career.

1:12:54

How many people would you say absolutely

1:12:57

100% get it? Not a portion of

1:12:59

it, not a piece of it. Like

1:13:01

get it. Get the modes of storytelling.

1:13:03

Get the how to get the most

1:13:05

out of something. Get all aspects of

1:13:07

what we do. How many people would

1:13:10

you say? And he's like, well, I'm

1:13:12

not. I bet you I can count

1:13:14

them on one hand. Right then that's

1:13:16

that's considering great in our business and

1:13:18

all that stuff and he's like I

1:13:21

bet you I could count on one

1:13:23

hand I said I think it would

1:13:25

be a struggle to fill up all

1:13:27

the fingers on one really wow right

1:13:29

like it's it's a different thing and

1:13:31

people don't get it the amount of

1:13:34

factors that go into creating something getting

1:13:36

a character doing all those things and

1:13:38

then It's easy to look at it.

1:13:40

And this is all stuff that I

1:13:42

learned over, you know, 25 years. What

1:13:45

are they? What are they? Bring it

1:13:47

down. Like what it's... It's just so

1:13:49

many things it's hard to even put

1:13:51

into context because like everything matters. So

1:13:53

why don't you just do this with

1:13:55

this guy? This would get him over.

1:13:58

Well, you can't do this at this

1:14:00

time because this guy is doing this

1:14:02

and this doesn't work with that and

1:14:04

this guy got. injured and that takes

1:14:06

away from this. Oh, by the way,

1:14:09

they hate each other, they won't work

1:14:11

together or won't be good. These factors

1:14:13

don't work. I'm also getting pressure from

1:14:15

the network to do this and I

1:14:17

don't have this and we can't do

1:14:20

that time-wise. Right, there's all these factors

1:14:22

of you're building out this elaborate set

1:14:24

of dominoes set up and then if

1:14:26

one of them comes out, you start

1:14:28

all over. They can say all affect

1:14:30

each other, you know, and you don't

1:14:33

think about it that way. thought and

1:14:35

Being able to see ahead of what's

1:14:37

going to happen next is incredibly difficult

1:14:39

And that doesn't mean you're right all

1:14:41

the time. Yeah, it doesn't mean that

1:14:44

at all you could be wrong You

1:14:46

can understand all that still be wrong

1:14:48

80% of the time, you know, whatever

1:14:50

But it's it's the feel Pat Patterson

1:14:52

was one of the greatest finished guys

1:14:54

in our business and you know the

1:14:57

generation that was just slightly before me

1:14:59

of talent that came in when I

1:15:01

first came in was all like You

1:15:03

know, as they're teaching you things, you

1:15:05

have to be like, let me teach

1:15:08

you something here. I learned this from

1:15:10

Pat, right? But I was fortunate enough

1:15:12

to sit under the learning tree that

1:15:14

was Vince. And when I say learning

1:15:16

tree, I mean, the things of what

1:15:18

to do and what not to do,

1:15:21

right? I was fortunate enough to sit

1:15:23

around Pat where when Pat was there,

1:15:25

every day when we'd finish a production

1:15:27

meeting, Pat would be like, what are

1:15:29

you going to do? I'm going to

1:15:32

get something, you want to meet me

1:15:34

in the, meet me in the, meet

1:15:36

me in the stands, we'll talk about

1:15:38

this show, we'd start putting shit together,

1:15:40

and I'm learning all these, from all

1:15:43

these people, and you know, Pat would

1:15:45

always say, the wrestling business isn't here,

1:15:47

it's here, right? And he was the

1:15:49

first one to say that to me,

1:15:51

he would be like, think about everybody,

1:15:53

you know, you know, you know, feel

1:15:56

it here. Not many. It comes out

1:15:58

of here, but the guys that really

1:16:00

feel, he's like this, they're few and

1:16:02

far between. I imagine those are the

1:16:04

guys that have the greatest longevity in

1:16:07

the business. It is. It is because

1:16:09

they can feel when to have been

1:16:11

flow and change and move and do

1:16:13

all those things. And Pat would say

1:16:15

to me all the time, there's a

1:16:17

lot of guys here that are amazing.

1:16:20

They don't feel, this isn't, this isn't

1:16:22

where it comes from from from them.

1:16:24

And the first time he told me

1:16:26

that he said. You feel it. So

1:16:28

you get this feeling, you're like, I

1:16:31

can be one of those guys. This

1:16:33

is my pathway to being one of

1:16:35

those guys. How do you set that

1:16:37

story in motion? You can't just go,

1:16:39

I'm leaving the group. There needs to

1:16:41

be a reason to leave the group.

1:16:44

Yeah. So it's a little convoluted at

1:16:46

the time, right? In that moment in

1:16:48

time, like I sort of, Vince has,

1:16:50

Vince has now become a full-on character.

1:16:52

He's got a faction called the corporation

1:16:55

called the corporation. Yes. turn on DX

1:16:57

to go with the corporation, but the

1:16:59

corporation's like this hodgepodge of all these

1:17:01

different people and it kind of really

1:17:03

doesn't work out well. It just becomes

1:17:05

this mess of stuff. So you're just

1:17:08

trying to navigate. It's like I pop

1:17:10

out of this thing that's working and

1:17:12

I pop over here, but now I've,

1:17:14

it's like going back. A lot of

1:17:16

times people think that. that stuff like

1:17:19

you're here, so then you move into

1:17:21

something else and you just go here.

1:17:23

You might have to take a step

1:17:25

back. That rarely works that way. You're

1:17:27

here, and I want to get here,

1:17:30

but over here, you've got to go

1:17:32

here and then it'll just back up

1:17:34

to that. Sometimes it can work where

1:17:36

you go right there, but more times

1:17:38

than not, I feel like whenever there's

1:17:40

a complete shift in what you do,

1:17:43

you go back and start over at

1:17:45

the beginning. Is this the Stephanie storyline?

1:17:47

This this comes into it a little

1:17:49

bit later. So what wishes the Stephanie

1:17:51

one story line? Okay, so you're already

1:17:54

there. So I sort of get the

1:17:56

opportunity. I'm I'm put in that position

1:17:58

Where I'm world champion, you know, this

1:18:00

is at a point time where they're

1:18:02

they're flipping titles around a lot too.

1:18:04

It's just different time in the business.

1:18:07

But I'm in that sort of mix

1:18:09

where I'm being seen in the Austin

1:18:11

Rock conversation, the taker conversation. I'm in

1:18:13

that mix. I've been, I've been, I've

1:18:15

been champ, I can't remember if I

1:18:18

was championed once or twice at that

1:18:20

point in time, but I'm champ and,

1:18:22

it's a funny thing because people's thoughts

1:18:24

about how this happened or different. I

1:18:27

have this really strong creative relationship with

1:18:29

Vince. I know he is a daughter,

1:18:31

but I don't, I've never even really

1:18:33

met her, and then she starts to

1:18:35

be around the company, but I'm not

1:18:37

working with her much or anything like

1:18:39

that. But she's in a storyline with

1:18:41

another wrestler, this guy Tess. And they

1:18:43

are engaged to be married. The lead

1:18:46

writer at the time. He leaves the

1:18:48

company in the middle of this. Okay.

1:18:50

I've heard him say that he knew

1:18:52

exactly where this storyline was gone, just

1:18:54

nobody else did. So when he leaves,

1:18:56

there's like this giant gap where like

1:18:58

Vince's daughters engaged with this guy. To

1:19:00

be honest, I hadn't even been paying

1:19:02

that much attention to that storyline. This

1:19:04

is concerned of my shit more often,

1:19:06

right? And I had a great creative

1:19:08

relationship with Vince, but so. They so

1:19:10

don't know where to go with this

1:19:12

thing that they've announced this wedding is

1:19:14

going to be on TV. They have

1:19:16

to do a thing where she gets

1:19:18

hit the head with a garbage can

1:19:20

and loses her memory and doesn't remember

1:19:22

who the fiancé is just to buy

1:19:24

some time. So they can try to

1:19:26

figure out how to get... out of

1:19:28

this thing. But there's going to be

1:19:30

a wedding on raw, is it? On

1:19:32

raw. Yeah, so and everybody's, were they,

1:19:34

were they involved in real life? No,

1:19:36

no, no, oh, yes. Were you guys

1:19:38

at the time involved in it? No,

1:19:40

I didn't even really know. Yeah, but

1:19:42

so I know they're trying to figure

1:19:44

out a way to get out of

1:19:47

this wedding thing. Yeah. And meanwhile, I'm

1:19:49

in a storyline with Vince, where Vince

1:19:51

has made it like, like, he's, like,

1:19:53

I can never have another chance of

1:19:55

the title. Like he's so pissed off

1:19:57

of me, bans me from getting world

1:19:59

title shots. And so we're in the

1:20:01

middle of the storyline. So one day

1:20:03

I go to him and I'm like,

1:20:05

since thinking about our shit, right? Like

1:20:07

how do we get back to getting

1:20:09

me in that mix after what we've

1:20:11

done? And he's like, yeah, I don't

1:20:13

know. I'm thinking about step. I said,

1:20:15

well, what if? She, you know, right

1:20:17

before she's going to get married, she

1:20:19

has a bachelorette party, blowing out like

1:20:21

some big story on TV, she has

1:20:23

a bachelorette party, but I show up

1:20:25

and I'm, you know, a different time

1:20:27

frame. I'm making your drink. And while

1:20:29

she's unconscious, I said, it's that you

1:20:31

have it in Vegas. I drive her

1:20:33

through one of those wedding chapel things,

1:20:35

and I end up. Like nobody knows

1:20:37

about this but I've filmed all of

1:20:39

it and now when the wedding happens

1:20:41

right when they say speak now forever

1:20:43

old you piece I come out and

1:20:45

I'm like hold on a second she

1:20:48

can't marry him because she's married to

1:20:50

me and I show the footage and

1:20:52

holy shit I've ruined your life and

1:20:54

now we create this storyline where like

1:20:56

if in order to get your daughter

1:20:58

like this wedding annulled and so she

1:21:00

can marry the other guy you and

1:21:02

I have to fight. And if I

1:21:04

beat you, I get the world title

1:21:06

shot, if you beat me, I had

1:21:08

all the winning. And he's like, God

1:21:10

damn, I love it. So that's what

1:21:12

we do. And this starts, Steve and

1:21:14

I now. So originally, it's just supposed

1:21:16

to be a one-off thing. We'd shoot

1:21:18

the video in Vegas and... The video's

1:21:20

hilarious when you are mouthish. Yeah, it's

1:21:22

so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. Yeah. So,

1:21:24

you going, oh you do? Yeah, it's

1:21:26

utterly ridiculous, but it just works, right?

1:21:28

Yeah. And this is the footage of

1:21:30

me out there telling this story. So

1:21:32

originally, it's supposed to be just one

1:21:34

off. I think it's selling. Yeah, she's

1:21:36

a beast. So it's supposed to be

1:21:38

this one-off thing. That makes us have

1:21:40

the match. I go over, I get

1:21:42

my world title shot, she moves on,

1:21:44

does the rest of the stuff with

1:21:46

the testing, but at least gets them

1:21:49

out of the wedding. Right and now

1:21:51

it's the decision whether he's gonna marry

1:21:53

or not the first time she goes

1:21:55

on TV After this happens like this

1:21:57

is the cynical world we live and

1:21:59

she goes out on TV And I'm

1:22:01

sitting at guerrilla position next to Vince

1:22:03

where we run the show from yeah,

1:22:05

and like I'm not working I'm in

1:22:07

the show right at this point. I'm

1:22:09

just still a character character character I'm

1:22:11

helping out heavy with creative and helping

1:22:13

produce stuff, but I'm really just as

1:22:15

a character on TV And she goes

1:22:17

out to cut the promo, and I'm

1:22:19

sitting next to Vince, and she goes

1:22:21

out there, and they are booing the

1:22:23

hurdle. Oh, and this is unexpected, completely.

1:22:25

Well, oh, that's right. They're calling her

1:22:27

like a slut. Like, chanting slut. And

1:22:29

she's trying her hardest to be like,

1:22:31

to win over. Yeah, to be this

1:22:33

sympathetic baby phase and all this stuff.

1:22:35

And Vince taps me, and he's like.

1:22:37

This is so good. 20,000 people call

1:22:39

your daughter a slut. Yeah, this is

1:22:41

money, right? Yeah. Sorry, what are you

1:22:43

thinking in that moment? I'm a little

1:22:45

bit like, holy shit, like she's got

1:22:47

mega heat. He looks back and he

1:22:50

goes. And I'm like thinking to myself,

1:22:52

like, wow, there's like. There's legs to

1:22:54

this thing like that we hadn't I

1:22:56

at least I hadn't considered you know

1:22:58

I was just like just trying to

1:23:00

get to my storyline with Vince and

1:23:02

we throw this thing out there and

1:23:04

there's legs on it and now we're

1:23:06

like holy cow so then you know

1:23:08

the next week she goes out there

1:23:10

as well all the stuff so then

1:23:12

Vince comes to me and he's like

1:23:14

what if she like one of the

1:23:16

worst possible thing happens is like. She

1:23:18

turns on me we have this match

1:23:20

at pay review right of the moment

1:23:22

in time where holy shit Vince might

1:23:24

actually do this and beat triple H

1:23:26

and who turns on him, but his

1:23:28

own daughter To join his worst enemy

1:23:30

in the moment of time. Yeah, and

1:23:32

she comes with me and he like

1:23:34

he pitches it to me and he's

1:23:36

like and then like I I'm so

1:23:38

distraught my world is so turned upside

1:23:40

down I leave for a while and

1:23:42

you guys run the show like as

1:23:44

like the boss like she's the boss's

1:23:46

daughter so she's got all the stroke

1:23:48

and now you become this maniacal like

1:23:51

tyrant tyrant talent that's you know world

1:23:53

gets the world title and it's just

1:23:55

like out of control firing people and

1:23:57

just whatever you know and that's kind

1:23:59

of starts a thing but so as

1:24:01

this happens like I don't know Steph

1:24:03

at all sort of. Yeah, well, I

1:24:05

don't, but we're working together, right? So

1:24:07

now our storyline is coming. We believe

1:24:09

you. But I don't, she's a sponge

1:24:11

for the business, right? Like, Steph is

1:24:13

like, she wants nothing but to be

1:24:15

in this business, right? So, is she,

1:24:17

sorry, have you talked her about that

1:24:19

moment and what she was feeling, is

1:24:21

she like... Her dad, where she's like,

1:24:23

she's thinking the same shit, or is

1:24:25

she like this? So she knows the

1:24:27

game, right? Yeah, she's like, oh my

1:24:29

god, this is the greatest thing ever,

1:24:31

like they're brewing the shit out of

1:24:33

me. Like, you know, she's very savvy

1:24:35

to this stuff. And she's one of

1:24:37

the few people, and I would say

1:24:39

this as well, and people will think,

1:24:41

oh, as your wife, is like, when

1:24:43

I make that small list of people

1:24:45

in one hand, they get it, she's

1:24:47

one of it. She's one of it,

1:24:49

she's one of it, she's one of

1:24:52

it, she's one of it. All right,

1:24:54

she's one of it. All right, she's

1:24:56

one of it. All right, she's, she's,

1:24:58

she's, she's, she's one of it, she's,

1:25:00

she's one of it, she's one of

1:25:02

it, she's one of it. Shout out

1:25:04

David, I don't even know who David

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is, but he made the best protein

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1:25:18

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where you go and the question isn't

1:28:02

if we consummated the marriage. Yes. Okay.

1:28:04

Is this just, are you revving, you're

1:28:06

feeling the holidays and going for it?

1:28:08

I didn't even think about that line

1:28:10

before I got out there and I

1:28:12

was like, oh I got to say

1:28:14

something about, you know, consummating

1:28:16

the marriage or whatever. This is worse, I'm

1:28:18

talking to her dad. It's like the worst

1:28:21

possible thing I can say. So, you know,

1:28:23

does he react at all when you say,

1:28:25

like, do you see an eyebrow raise or

1:28:27

anything? No, I mean, he reacts in the

1:28:30

ring, but like, he's so good. And now,

1:28:32

like, we're, we're full on attitude error, like,

1:28:34

where this is, like, he's all in, and

1:28:36

he's full character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:39

I mean, so, like, I know, like,

1:28:41

as we're doing it, I'm like, like,

1:28:43

he knows it's so good. He is

1:28:45

crazy. Now all the attention is on

1:28:47

this storyline in the Biz. There's still

1:28:49

other things. There's other things going on.

1:28:51

But you're feeling it. This becomes a

1:28:53

thing and the sort of the McMahon

1:28:55

Helmsley era becomes like the the main crux

1:28:57

of the story, you know, like a fire

1:28:59

Mc Foley and I, you know, I end

1:29:01

up in a match with him and then

1:29:03

get him retired and, you know, make him

1:29:05

retired. Just all this, all this stuff happens.

1:29:07

But sort of at that point in time,

1:29:09

this is how Stefan I get to know each

1:29:12

other, and I get to know each other, Like

1:29:14

if I have a match, she just wants to

1:29:16

be there to hear how it all gets put

1:29:18

together and how that's all going to work and

1:29:20

everything. So she's around all the time. Right.

1:29:23

And what's a funny part of the story

1:29:25

is, I'm talking to my mom one day on

1:29:27

the phone and she's like, what's going on

1:29:29

with you and that Stephanie had to

1:29:31

say what you're talking about? She's

1:29:33

like, I don't know. Like, you're not that good of

1:29:35

an actor, I can see it. I can see it in your eye.

1:29:37

Like, what's going on there? And I'm like, mom, this is Vince's daughter.

1:29:39

Like, fucking, nothing's going on. Like, don't be crazy. For some shows here,

1:29:41

yeah. I don't know this at the time, but Step's mom says to

1:29:43

her, like, what's the deal with you in AAA? And she's like, what

1:29:45

are you talking about? It's one of the boys, one of the boys,

1:29:47

nothing. Nothing. And she's one of the one of the one of the one of

1:29:50

the boys, nothing, nothing, nothing. And she's one of the one of

1:29:52

the one of the one of the boys, nothing. One of the one of

1:29:54

the boys, nothing. One of the one of the boys, nothing. One of the

1:29:56

boys, nothing, nothing. One of the, nothing. One of the, nothing. One of the,

1:29:58

nothing. One of the, nothing. One of the, nothing. stuff like that,

1:30:00

like you sure there's not something that, you

1:30:03

know, like my mom, her mom, both see

1:30:05

it on TV, but neither one of us.

1:30:07

Dad, I got no clue. No, but he's

1:30:09

a touch of death. I say this and

1:30:12

I say this. I believe he started to

1:30:14

see it and I believe he actually liked

1:30:16

it and was trying to push us at

1:30:18

that point. And then there comes a time

1:30:21

when we do get together and then there's

1:30:23

a time when he takes that away, like

1:30:25

it's gonna cause too much problem in

1:30:27

the problem in the business. and uh

1:30:29

you guys can't oh you can't see each other

1:30:32

even though you guys are already seeing each

1:30:34

other at the time yeah so he so

1:30:36

now the people know do people know in

1:30:38

the real world that you guys are seeing

1:30:40

each other at this point yeah I don't

1:30:42

I'm not like I don't remember the exact

1:30:44

timing of it but yeah this starting to

1:30:46

sort of get it and then how what's

1:30:48

the storyline for tearing you guys apart there

1:30:50

isn't we're still in a storyline together right

1:30:52

but he's just saying personally put the cop

1:30:54

outside You got it. You guys can't.

1:30:57

You can't do this. And did you

1:30:59

guys listen as good obedient soldiers? We

1:31:01

tried. And then it just doesn't. You

1:31:03

know, like when you want something, you

1:31:05

got to go get it, right? And

1:31:07

so we try. And I honestly think

1:31:09

at that point, like, you know, as

1:31:12

you asked earlier, like, is he just

1:31:14

saying this to try to see what

1:31:16

you'll do? Yeah. I believe there's a

1:31:18

lot of that that he was like,

1:31:20

no, you guys can't see each other,

1:31:22

each other, to get it. And you know

1:31:25

for me at the time I'm I'm sort

1:31:27

of gambling everything on

1:31:29

you know when people say like oh

1:31:31

well that's how you got the position

1:31:33

and all that you're like no

1:31:36

I'm not fucking get I'm like

1:31:38

I'm gambling if this doesn't

1:31:40

work out I'm fuck yeah like I'm

1:31:42

done but at the same point time

1:31:45

it's like you know when you meet

1:31:47

the right person you got to go

1:31:49

for it. You meet the right person

1:31:51

and yeah it becomes this Yeah,

1:31:54

it's just just crazy time. So we're

1:31:56

kind of doing this shit on TV

1:31:59

and you know and now everybody's

1:32:01

attitude towards me is changing.

1:32:03

Well, I'm already sort of, you

1:32:05

know, I'm going to production meetings

1:32:08

before this ever happens. I'm going

1:32:10

to production meetings. I'm creative, I'm

1:32:12

having creative input with Vince. I'm,

1:32:14

you know, people see me all

1:32:16

day long. I'm with Pat Patterson,

1:32:18

talking over finishes and helping with

1:32:20

their ship. which they don't necessarily

1:32:22

see as a good or bad

1:32:24

thing, but like they just see,

1:32:26

so there's a lot of, whether

1:32:28