0:00

What's up everybody and welcome

0:02

to the podcast and today we are joined

0:04

once again. Listen, this is not the case

0:06

at all. He's definitely not running for governor

0:08

of Ohio. I know that for sure. I

0:10

mean he'll tell you in a moment that

0:13

he's definitely not going to do that. Give

0:15

it up for Vivac Rama Swami. He's

0:17

definitely not going to be the

0:19

governor of Ohio, right? People loved you

0:22

in Ohio man. We, uh, this guy's

0:24

coming. This guy's coming to comedians, first

0:26

the comedians and then the industry. He's

0:28

going to save the cat and dogs,

0:31

man. To dogs! Are we ready? Everybody.

0:33

All forms of life. All forms of

0:35

life. All forms of life. Okay, okay.

0:38

So we, there's a lot of things

0:40

going on. A lot of things, a

0:42

lot of things going on. I need

0:44

to know about Doge. What happened this,

0:47

you're on this, you're on this, you're

0:49

on this podcast. give us this beautiful soliloquy of

0:51

about the mere class. Thank you. And like, it

0:53

was so important that I was like, I need

0:55

you to break it down dumb. Obviously, you're a

0:57

very smart guy. So I was like, you guys

0:59

say that break it down, dumb, but I know

1:01

you're, you're into the center of it. I remember

1:04

that's sixth grade. I'm a moron. We're sixth graders.

1:06

You know, I'll tell you, if you can explain

1:08

it to a sixth grader, it means you, it

1:10

means you don't understand it. It means you don't

1:12

understand it yourself. That's you don't understand it yourself.

1:14

That's what Epstein said. That's what Epstein said. I

1:16

see you deliver this amazing thing. It's crazy on

1:18

Twitter. It's like you got it. Then

1:21

after we met where

1:23

one of the core

1:25

chapters was about dismantling

1:27

the administrative state. So

1:29

this is my passion.

1:31

Absolutely. Yeah. All the

1:33

sudden, Trump announces that

1:36

you and Elon are running

1:38

Doach. Yes. I'm so excited.

1:40

I'm like, finally, this is

1:42

going to happen. It's amazing.

1:44

And then you say you hate

1:47

American workers or something? Come on.

1:49

No, no, no, no. He said it

1:51

was too dumb. There's nothing above. But

1:53

we need to light a fire under.

1:55

We talk a lot about this. We're

1:57

talking about that. under our feet. No,

1:59

no, we're going to talk about that

2:01

in a second. But, but, so what

2:03

happened? And now you're leaving Doge right

2:05

on the precipice of actually cleaning up

2:07

the government, getting the managerial class out

2:09

of there, fixing everything. We got a

2:11

good head start, by the way, in

2:13

the two months leading up to inauguration.

2:16

Yeah. But I'll, I'll give you the

2:18

high level. There's a short story and

2:20

long story I can give you. It

2:22

evolved from a focus on where I

2:24

was focused, legal constitutional issues, legislative issues

2:26

of if you want to save a

2:28

lot of money, you got to do

2:30

it through legislation. If you want to

2:32

look at the Supreme Court landscape for

2:34

the last few years, it says a

2:36

lot of these regulations are unconstitutional, that's

2:38

where I had been focused. And you

2:40

know, the way it's gotten started, you

2:42

can see this publicly as well as

2:44

much more of a technology and digital

2:46

technology focus. Okay, so just slow down

2:48

for a second. So you were going

2:50

to use the Constitution to remove legislation?

2:52

Well, to remove regulations. So you're going

2:55

to use legislation to remove regulation. So

2:57

you're going to use legislation to remove

2:59

regulation. And I've written about this for

3:01

the last year, right? Can you give

3:03

an example of that? Yeah, I can

3:05

give a good example of that. and

3:07

the executive branch is supposed to enforce

3:09

the laws, but it turns out that

3:11

most of the laws that decide what

3:13

you can and can't do in your

3:15

life were actually never passed by Congress.

3:17

They were passed by people who were

3:19

never elected to their position. The managerial

3:21

class, the bureaucrats in DC. What's a

3:23

law? Give me example. Yes, so they

3:25

don't call laws, they call them rules,

3:27

but they have the effect of laws.

3:29

Right. Let's say the... amount of fees

3:31

that fishermen have to pay to the

3:34

government to have a license to be

3:36

able to fish in a particular area.

3:38

Let's say it is the registration requirement

3:40

before a bank or an asset manager

3:42

is allowed to do business. Let's say

3:44

it is the procedural hoop that a

3:46

biotech company has to jump through before

3:48

advancing from phase one to phase two

3:50

of the... development process. Let's say it's

3:52

the permission that a coal miner or

3:54

a nuclear energy plant has to get

3:56

as permission from the government before they

3:58

build a new nuclear energy plant, which

4:00

by the way has not happened in

4:02

20 years in this country, because the

4:04

red tape associated with doing so is

4:06

so impossible. None of those were passed

4:08

by people that we the people elected.

4:10

They were written into law, they call

4:13

them rules, but effectively into law, by

4:15

unelected bureaucrats. And the thing is, that's

4:17

not a democracy, right? It might be

4:19

something else, but it's not a democracy.

4:21

Because in a democracy if somebody makes

4:23

a law that affects you, you get

4:25

to vote them out. That's what it

4:27

makes a law. These are more like

4:29

edicts. Edicts come from a king, because

4:31

you can't vote them out. This doesn't

4:33

come from a king, but it's a

4:35

new kind of edict of bureaucracy. So

4:37

just so I can understand. You're not

4:39

against regulation, as long as it's decided

4:41

by democratically elected officials. It so happens

4:43

in my own politics, I'm generally pretty

4:45

libertarian, I tend to be against, I

4:47

think most of these regulations tend not

4:50

to be productive. But sometimes you need

4:52

regulation. But the most important principle is,

4:54

if you're going to have it, at

4:56

least let the people who it affects,

4:58

to say if it's not working out

5:00

for me, I want to be able

5:02

to vote you out. That's the most

5:04

important principle. Just so we can understand.

5:06

Like a lot of this, probably, ah.

5:08

probably comes from good intentions. Oh, absolutely.

5:10

Right. So these aren't like evil people

5:12

necessarily. There's certainly malicious people in all

5:14

kinds of domains of life. Yes. Yes.

5:16

And the government is no exception to

5:18

that. Right. And you can see some

5:20

egregious examples of it. But by and

5:22

large, I think we're talking about the

5:24

regulatory state. The overwhelming majority of federal

5:26

bureaucrats who I've met are good people

5:29

because most people are good people. Yeah.

5:31

and they believe what they're doing is

5:33

not for the detriment of the American

5:35

people. But for the betterment of the

5:37

American people. It's a kind of elite

5:39

benevolence. Yes. And it's sort of skeptical

5:41

of democracy because the idea that you

5:43

could just leave it to ordinary people

5:45

to decide this complicated stuff. We can't

5:47

leave it ordinary people because they're going

5:49

to harm themselves. They're too dumb. We

5:51

have to make that. Exactly, exactly. And

5:53

that was the whole premise of the

5:55

British monarchy. It's kind of the whole

5:57

premise of the modern federal bureau. I

5:59

guess I think it's nice to not

6:01

paint all these people who are creating

6:03

this, what do you call it, creating,

6:05

red tape, you know, regulation, exactly. As

6:08

nefarious. By and large, most human beings

6:10

are not nefarious. And a lot of

6:12

times it's human beings are not nefarious.

6:14

And a lot of reactionary, like reactionary,

6:16

like reactionary, it's reactionary, like, it's reactionary,

6:18

it's reactionary, like, it's reactionary, it's reactionary,

6:20

it's reactionary, like, it's reactionary, it's reactionary,

6:22

it's reactionary, like, it's reactionary, it's reactionary,

6:24

like, it's reactionary, like, like, like, it's

6:26

reactionary, reactionary, like, like, like, reactionary, like,

6:28

like, one of the rooms was created

6:30

in like an apartment building

6:33

and I think a fireman

6:35

died because they built the room

6:37

but didn't ask the city permission so

6:39

the plot or the plan that they

6:41

had so then I think what the

6:43

knee jerk reaction was to say you

6:46

cannot do anything to your apartment without

6:48

permission for the whole city. I'm probably

6:50

butchering this. Yeah, but it's the kind

6:52

of example you see all the time.

6:54

Exactly. And I get that knee jerk

6:56

reaction because you want to protect firemen.

6:58

These guys are brave. They're running into

7:00

a fire. It's such a great example

7:03

because you see that same type of

7:05

incentive structure show up all the time

7:07

where someone at the FDA. They rarely

7:09

will get hauled in front of some

7:11

hearing if they... fail to approve a

7:13

drug that saves lives, but if they

7:15

do approve a drug that has some

7:17

unintended side effects, then they're gonna mean

7:19

the public eye. So their incentive is

7:21

to go in one direction or the

7:23

other. Does that make them an evil

7:25

person? No. Most human beings just respond

7:27

to the incentives that they have. Most

7:29

human beings just respond to the incentives

7:31

that they have while still in their

7:34

heart of hearts believing that they're doing

7:36

good. That's the way the constitutional

7:38

approach where the Supreme Court. in the

7:40

last couple of years came out and said actually

7:42

most of those rules are actually unconstitutional because they didn't

7:44

go through Congress that's a big freaking deal happen a

7:46

couple years ago yeah so we got that toolkit

7:48

and then if you want to really tackle government spending

7:51

which is a separate prong the budget set in Congress

7:53

there's no way around that right the budget is set

7:55

by Congress we want to cut trillions of dollars you

7:57

got to go to the core of that budgeting process

7:59

So that was where my focus and

8:02

our focus was. I think if you

8:04

look at, you know, now it's taken

8:06

off, and I think it could be

8:08

great. It's very much a digital technology

8:10

first approach. What does that mean? I

8:12

mean, I'll let you read the executive

8:14

orders that came out last week. And

8:16

like I said, we're not doing that

8:19

right here. I know. So I'll be,

8:21

I'll stay, I'll leave it at what

8:23

I'm able to say, which is, you

8:25

know, you know, sort of, you can

8:27

see publicly, very technology, nobody better to

8:29

take a technology-focused, centric approach than Elon.

8:31

And by the way, we ended up

8:33

having a pretty open discussion amongst all

8:36

of us, that if my focus is

8:38

on the legal constitutional policy-making functions, that's

8:40

where my passion has been. The right

8:42

way for me to realize my own

8:44

vision is through elected office and But

8:46

not the government of a hiring. All

8:48

of those except that one position. announcement

8:50

will be coming of some kind in

8:53

the next couple of weeks. Got it.

8:55

But I will say that even some

8:57

of the regulations you brought up, right,

8:59

the fireman example. Yeah. Most of those

9:01

regs aren't just federal regulations. In fact,

9:03

most of them that affect people in

9:05

everyday lives are also at the level

9:07

of the state. Right. And you know,

9:10

I think short of being a president

9:12

when you think about driving executive action

9:14

to improve people's lives. Probably the single

9:16

best way to actually do it. Correct

9:18

me if I'm wrong. Correct me if

9:20

I'm wrong. Yeah, wouldn't you and Elon

9:22

coming in as doge? Isn't that the

9:24

same as unelected bureaucrats coming in to

9:27

make about your rules? So, so I

9:29

think it's a super fair, it's a

9:31

super fair question of the over the

9:33

couple of months. The question is, it's

9:35

one thing if you are undoing the

9:37

actions of people who have actually affirmatively

9:39

made rules versus making new rules of

9:41

your own. So you're not going to

9:44

make any rules, you're just taking away

9:46

rules? I think you're going to default.

9:48

Well, I think if you're rolling back,

9:50

if you're rolling back rules and actually

9:52

cutting bureaucratic overgrowth, it's one thing to

9:54

come in and say you're going to

9:56

hire a million federal bureaucrats without any

9:58

authorization from Congress to do it. It's

10:01

another to say there are... four million,

10:03

many of whom were hired without that

10:05

authorization, we need to scale that headcount

10:07

back. It's another thing to say all

10:09

these regulations showed up with Congress never

10:11

authorizing them. It's another to say they're

10:13

illicit unless they go through Congress, right?

10:15

So that was the premise. It's a

10:18

one-way ratchet. If there's been a federal

10:20

government overgrowth and a lot of that

10:22

was never authorized by the democratic process.

10:24

Then it's one thing to say, okay,

10:26

then all of that in order to

10:28

comply with the Constitution has to be

10:30

rolled back. You can't make it without

10:32

authorization. But how would you apply all

10:35

versus new tech? You said Elon's trying

10:37

to do like tech-driven rules. Yes, so

10:39

I'm going to let... Wouldn't that be

10:41

new rules? Well, I showed you... I

10:43

showed you my outlook was in what

10:45

brought me to the project and I'm

10:47

super... Rooting for success and and hopeful

10:50

for success for what's going to come

10:52

from a technology doing approach But that's

10:54

a way to do it different philosophy

10:56

and approach an emphasis. Yeah, yeah, talk

10:58

that shit. No, no, it's talk that

11:00

shit. Well, the truth is the matter.

11:02

The truth of the matter is I

11:04

think he's, I think there's nobody better

11:07

in the world to run a technology

11:09

focused approach to fixing the federal government

11:11

than you want. And if that's for

11:13

the focuses, I'm rooting for their success.

11:15

And similarly, when I'm thinking about my

11:17

legal constitutional legislative focus and downsizing government.

11:19

It's hard to argue the best way

11:21

to do that isn't actually being elected

11:24

in my own right. I'm sorry I'm

11:26

having trouble understanding what the technology-driven approach

11:28

would be. Can you? What does that

11:30

mean? I mean, I mean, all I'll

11:32

say is at that point, can you

11:34

run an example, hypothetically or whatever? I

11:36

would say I truly don't know what

11:38

that means. I hear you, I hear

11:41

you. I think we're probably reaching the

11:43

outer bounds of what I'm going to...

11:45

what I'm able to talk about, but

11:47

stay tuned in a number for success.

11:49

I gave you what my outlook is,

11:51

because I can speak from my, I

11:53

could speak from my outlook. So before

11:55

you guys started, I think there's an

11:58

opportunity, is there an opportunity to make

12:00

things more efficient using digital technology? I

12:02

believe there is. But that's a different,

12:04

that's a different, but before you guys

12:06

started it, did you have this conversation

12:08

about what your outlooks were? for this

12:10

program. We co-wrote a Wall Street Journal

12:12

op-ed that's out there that laid out

12:15

a vision that's pretty consistent. And then

12:17

does something change? Well, I think it's

12:19

a first of all. Did you see

12:21

him saluting in the office? I think

12:23

that there was a evolution in any

12:25

new project, right? This is something like

12:27

this has never been done. I'll give

12:29

you one example, right? Initially, this was

12:32

supposed to reside outside of government. Yeah.

12:34

Now, you know, latent, they'll lead up

12:36

to starting, ended up in the government.

12:38

And by the way, here's another thing

12:40

that's going to end up in the

12:42

government. And by the way, here's another

12:44

thing that happens. When it's in the

12:46

government, it's a different. So there were

12:49

a lot of things that obviously was

12:51

supposed to be on the outside for

12:53

a lot of reasons ended up moving

12:55

inside, ended up having a technology first

12:57

approach. And so when something like this

12:59

has never been done, and you set

13:01

it up, obviously there's going to be

13:03

some evolution. And it made a lot

13:06

of sense, given the way things evolved

13:08

for me to say, you know, this

13:10

is the right way for me to

13:12

achieve my vision and goals for the

13:14

country and to wish success in a

13:16

technology-driven approach within the federal government. And

13:18

that's where we landed. I think that

13:20

that seems like you guys had a,

13:23

what is it called, amicable breakup? Is

13:25

that? We're super friendly on a personal

13:27

level. It's just sometimes a different, mutual

13:29

decision. Very much so. Exactly. That's what

13:31

I say when I get dumped. Yeah.

13:33

Well, what is your, what do you

13:35

say to that? When you see that,

13:37

you know, I'm sure you saw like

13:40

tweets or articles or something like that

13:42

where it's like, oh, the administration is

13:44

pushing Vivic out. I don't know. I

13:46

mean, the kind of, once you guys

13:48

tell me what to do. I ran

13:50

for, I ran for, I ran for

13:52

president and, uh, you get, I mean,

13:54

the number, the amount of online shit

13:57

that you will read about yourself, if

13:59

you put yourself in the public eye,

14:01

at some point you just, you sort

14:03

of get used to it and deal

14:05

with that's a price and cost of

14:07

doing business if you want to change

14:09

the country. Right. But, you know, look,

14:12

I think it is, do I think

14:14

it is, do I think it is,

14:16

do I feel like where I feel

14:18

like where I'm headed, where I'm headed,

14:20

where I'm headed, where I'm headed, where

14:22

I'm headed, where I'm headed, where I'm

14:24

headed, where I'm headed, where I'm headed,

14:26

where I'm headed, where I'm headed, where

14:29

I'm headed, where I'm headed, where I'm

14:31

headed, where I'm headed, where I'm headed,

14:33

where I'm headed, where I'm headed, 100%.

14:35

Is there any division in the administration

14:37

between you, let's say, and Trump? Trump

14:39

in our great terms. We have on

14:41

a personal level, super close. You got

14:43

a take-top Jack here. I went on

14:46

the spy. He actually worked for me

14:48

first. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we partner

14:50

with a lot of these people. And

14:52

a lot of the people who worked

14:54

on my campaign actually ended up doing

14:56

Trump's campaign. A lot of people joined,

14:58

you know, and myself too. I endorse

15:00

Trump and worked my tail off over

15:03

the last year. and he got elected,

15:05

because I think it was necessary. And

15:07

I understand that because if you support

15:09

him in any way, you're going to

15:11

be racist. All out. And you went

15:13

all out. So I cannot fathom, like

15:15

when I saw him. No, we're good.

15:17

We're good. Yeah. But you and Elon,

15:20

there might be some. No, we're good.

15:22

But you and Elon, there might be

15:24

some. No, I'm good. But you and

15:26

Elon, there might be some. No. No.

15:28

But you and Elon, you. But you

15:30

and Elon, and Elon, there might be.

15:32

But you. There might be. But you.

15:34

But you. But you. But you and

15:37

Elon. But you. But you and Elon.

15:39

But you and Elon. There might. There

15:41

might. But you. But you. But you

15:43

and Elon. There might. There might. But

15:45

you. But you. But you. But you.

15:47

Digital efficiency is gonna fix that. So

15:49

my view, my view is everybody has.

15:51

Look, let's talk about merit in the

15:54

country, right? Everybody's got their own gifts.

15:56

It seems like you got more merit

15:58

to be indulged than some fucking guy

16:00

with four other companies. You know, you

16:02

should have pointed in certain doors. You

16:04

should be like... Not sure. I think

16:06

it was such a fun weekend. This

16:08

weekend, I'm gonna be in West Des

16:11

Moines, Iowa, but then, but then it

16:13

comes in a little bit. And you

16:15

can't be like, I'm like, well, you're

16:17

out of the winter. All right, guys,

16:19

we also got dates. First of all,

16:21

Sacramento. Thank you. All right, guys, we

16:23

also got dates. First of all, Sacramento,

16:25

thank you guys. First of all, Sacramento,

16:28

thank you guys. weeks off and then

16:30

February 21st and 22nd I'm in Bria

16:32

California one of those shows is already

16:34

sold out so it's buy your tickets

16:36

then February 27th and 28th and March

16:38

1st I'm gonna be in Zanez in

16:40

Nashville March 21st and 22nd Omaha Nebraska

16:42

March 28th Columbus and these dates have

16:44

changed guys I was gonna be in

16:47

Toledo Ohio in April but we're gonna

16:49

move that show I gotta make up

16:51

for everybody who had to cancel on

16:53

last minute in Tampa so Tampa if

16:55

you missed your shot last time because

16:57

I didn't make it your shot? I

16:59

fucked up. I apologize. Flu got me.

17:01

April 10th through 13th. I will be

17:04

in Tampa. Guys, get your tickets

17:06

at Akash singh.com. Now let's get

17:08

back to the show. What's up

17:10

guys? Mark Agnon's arena tour continues.

17:12

All right? February 27th. Baltimore. I

17:14

will be in McGoubies. That's right.

17:16

McGoubies joke house. It's like a

17:18

house, but it's really like an

17:20

arena. It's a small arena. It's

17:22

a small arena. Don't, please don't

17:24

choose that. Because people have tried

17:26

to do this and after the

17:28

show they've come up to me.

17:30

They said, oh gosh, should I

17:32

have to suck your day? I just

17:34

said, please don't do it. Only men, men only.

17:36

Yeah, no, that's only who's coming. No, fella, suck

17:38

his dick. No, please don't. Then, don't even really

17:41

ask. It's not even cheating. Don't even, please don't,

17:43

then, don't even really ask. It's not even, then,

17:45

don't even, then, don't even really, don't even, then,

17:47

then, don't even really, then, then, don't even really,

17:49

then, don't even really, then, then, don't even really,

17:51

then, don't even really, then, don't even really, then,

17:53

don't even really, then, don't even really, then, then,

17:55

don't even really, don't even really, don't even really,

17:57

then, then. Don't even, don't even, then, then, Baltimore,

17:59

February. 27th. Okay. Okay, so you and

18:01

him are beefing, but you just had

18:03

different ideas for the program. You got

18:05

a bunch of people with different visions

18:07

of how to achieve similar goals. Yeah.

18:10

You find different ways to achieve those

18:12

goals. Did you have a combo where

18:14

you're like, yo, I think we should

18:16

actually go this direction? Well, look, I

18:18

think that it was it was an

18:20

evolution of where we were headed for

18:22

sure. I mean, things, you know, a

18:24

new project, it's never been done before.

18:26

It's never been done. ended up really

18:28

having an internal to government and technology-centric

18:30

focus. I think that's great, and I

18:32

think it could be super successful, and

18:34

I think there's nobody with that focus.

18:36

I really mean this. I think there's

18:38

nobody with that focus that is going

18:40

to be better positioned to do good

18:42

things than Elon. Of course, but initially...

18:45

But the flip side is also at

18:47

a certain point, I think this is

18:49

what's going to be good for me

18:51

as well, is if I'm really looking

18:53

at a unique constitutional vision for the

18:55

future of the future of the country...

18:57

grounded in my view of what our

18:59

lawmaking process ought to be? How do

19:01

you restore self-governance in America? How do

19:03

you actually rid ourselves of that managerial

19:05

bureaucracy that exists at the federal but

19:07

also at the state level? I think

19:09

I need to stand on my own

19:11

feet and be elected to office to

19:13

do it. And I think that's a

19:15

good thing. That is interesting. But let

19:17

me ask you, if you got to

19:20

run Doge your way or be governor

19:22

of a state in the Midwest, what

19:24

would you do? Well, I will tell

19:26

you it was my it's been my

19:28

plan for even before Dutch came into

19:30

existence and after I left the campaign

19:32

to pursue the path of likely running

19:34

for governor of Ohio, right? So this

19:36

is something that I You know began

19:38

to really wait for government is that

19:40

going to happen for real? Imminently we'll

19:42

have an announcement to make. What are

19:44

we waiting on? Yeah, just announce it

19:46

right here. We've got to jump through

19:48

some hoops and all this sounds like

19:50

to me inefficient. Yeah, everything about everything

19:53

about government paperwork is inefficient to me,

19:55

but I will say that that was

19:57

something that I was committed to even

19:59

before the election was decided. And so

20:01

when it became clear that you're not

20:03

able to do certain things while being

20:05

part of the federal government, I made

20:07

my choice about staying true. Who's the

20:09

sitting government path? Who's the guy you're

20:11

going to knock out? He's actually terminal

20:13

limited. So it's a guy that really

20:15

liked wine. Yeah, he's... So who you're

20:17

going to go up against? Who's the

20:19

other? Whoever chooses to run. And it's

20:21

his body bags all day. Zip, zip.

20:23

Are you excited? Let me say this.

20:25

I'll never, I'll never take that. Let

20:28

me say this. I'll never, I'll never

20:30

take... Talk that shit. I'm a competitor

20:32

as well, right? You guys. I like

20:34

him better. He's going to do great

20:36

things. He's going to do great things.

20:38

But I'm a competitor, but what I

20:40

will say is I don't want to

20:42

just win an election by some narrow

20:44

margin and be another caretaker. There's 50

20:46

caretakers across the country. Come and go.

20:48

If there's an opportunity to actually transform

20:50

Ohio, but also to show what is

20:52

possible to the rest of the country

20:54

by standing for excellence. You need a

20:56

mandate to do that. So you can't

20:58

win by a little bit. You got

21:01

to win by a lot. And so

21:03

I'm in this to be not just

21:05

in by some sort of marginal victory

21:07

and be another nanny for a state

21:09

government for a while, but to really

21:11

go in and change the place for

21:13

the better. And if you think about

21:15

it, Silicon Valley, right? It's been at

21:17

the bleeding edge of the American economy

21:19

for the last 20 years. even one

21:21

step more than that to go to

21:23

the next level where Silicon Valley isn't

21:25

in terms of production. Because I do

21:27

think that's going to be the next

21:29

wave of actual true innovation in America

21:31

is actually producing semiconductors. But how do

21:33

you do producing? I didn't get a

21:36

lot more H-1B visas in Ohio. Yeah.

21:38

Starts with rolling back regulatory stick. How

21:40

do you do with these retired Americans,

21:42

right? So you know what the sad

21:44

part is? Yes. We're actually, some people

21:46

say that. What do you mean? Some

21:48

people say that. Some people say that.

21:50

He's sitting right here. That's a guy.

21:52

No, actually. So to the contrary. Okay.

21:54

Yeah. Because I said this in my

21:56

now infamous tweet. He got hat. He

21:58

got hat. He was on me. Yeah.

22:00

That's the problem with me. The problem

22:02

with my tweets is nobody else reads

22:04

them before I put him. That is

22:06

all I mean. Fire them off. A

22:08

violent one thing, championship game, you're like,

22:11

all right, when you have a busy

22:13

year and you're on vacation with your

22:15

family. Yeah. Maybe put down the Twitter

22:17

account for a little while. It's a

22:19

good one. It's like, you know, take

22:21

your Brazil. And I was just like,

22:23

you know, you saw them work and

22:25

you were like, not these mother. Yeah.

22:27

Well, so so the thing is, I

22:29

actually, the thing that pissed me off

22:31

is actually a thing that you were

22:33

saying the thing that you were saying

22:35

the thing that you were saying, which

22:37

is that you were saying, which is

22:39

that you were saying, which is that

22:41

you were saying, which is that actually

22:44

a thing that you were saying, which

22:46

is that actually a thing that you

22:48

were saying, which is that you were

22:50

saying, which is that actually a thing

22:52

that you were saying, which is that.

22:54

in other countries versus the US? I

22:56

don't think so. We've got to be

22:58

the smartest. I think that if anything

23:00

we are because we have a good

23:02

selection bias of who comes here. For

23:04

native IQ, but, but, but, there's a

23:06

big problem. So if we have at

23:08

least no less smart and probably smarter

23:10

on average than most countries if not

23:12

all countries, because of the selection bias

23:14

of who comes here. Yeah, in eighth

23:16

grade. I'll ask you a question. Yeah.

23:19

What percentage of eighth graders are for

23:21

their age? Smart. No. I mean, they're

23:23

just saying that. If you want it

23:25

to be fine. You want to say

23:27

white Christians are the smartest and everything

23:29

will be okay. Okay? Just say crisis

23:31

king and we're the smartest. That's it.

23:33

Here's a problem, man. Eighth grade. I'll

23:35

ask you a question. Yeah. What percentage

23:37

of eighth graders are for their age

23:39

proficient in math, compared to international international

23:41

standards. 4% You're pretty pessimistic. You're not

23:43

bad though, it's 25% Yeah, so 75%

23:45

of our eighth graders compared to just

23:47

other developed countries 25% of that class

23:49

is Asian 25% They didn't do the

23:51

demographic break down all right, so 25%

23:54

So I think it is offensive for

23:56

those other countries to just say it's

23:58

a problem for us. No 25% actually

24:00

they got a hundred percent that could

24:02

do math and they're still poor The

24:04

other countries... Like how you still in

24:06

the third world and all of you

24:08

know math? Apparently... This is unimportant. This

24:10

is in the developed world, but you

24:12

should be focusing on shooting a school's

24:14

up or something like that. They can

24:16

make your country, you know, the leader

24:18

of the first world. This is what

24:20

I'm getting from the data. I'm getting,

24:22

this is not important at all to

24:24

have the most powerful country in the

24:27

world. I think that we are the

24:29

most powerful country in the world, and

24:31

that's what I'm worried about. country known

24:33

to the history of mankind. I do,

24:35

of course. But we have to have

24:37

the humility to understand where we

24:39

got to be better. And I don't think

24:41

complacency is an option. And I don't think,

24:43

I mean, look at the news of the

24:46

day or the news of this week, right?

24:48

You got new AI technology coming out of

24:50

China that somehow takes everybody by surprise here

24:52

because with a lot less in computing power,

24:54

they were smart in the way that

24:56

they were able to use less computing

24:59

power to still achieve a similar result.

25:01

We are going to get our asses handed to us by

25:03

China, unless we get our act together and light a fire

25:05

under the feet of our culture. I think that's a hard

25:07

truth. No, I agree with that. And the funny thing is

25:09

that we might need to fuck them up right now. I

25:11

mean, this is really the only chance we got. We have

25:13

to fuck them up right now. What do we do?

25:15

Forget fucking anybody else on it. We

25:18

get it to their neighbors. You know,

25:20

it's actually just, you know? Neither to

25:22

their neighbors. This guy's crazy. We can,

25:24

he's saying, nuke time. No, that's crazy.

25:27

No, that's not what I'm saying. How

25:29

about just, how about just being better

25:31

on our own terms? Right, that's, it's

25:33

crazy idea. I think the gap is

25:36

too big. We got it. So. At

25:38

least you're talking about it, but I

25:40

think that we can't hide and have

25:42

our heads in the sand. What do

25:45

they do better than us? What do

25:47

they do about that war? He just

25:49

really did this. This is the whole

25:51

discussion. This is the whole discussion. Was

25:53

he saying that the AI computing? So

25:55

I think about six percent. Yeah. So

25:57

maybe we don't want the best engineers,

25:59

right? What did they do? Can we

26:01

do? Yeah, so there was a thing

26:03

called Deep Seek that this game, and

26:06

you hear about it? No. Okay, no

26:08

worries. I've seen one two of the

26:10

last couple of days. Deep Seek? Yeah,

26:12

is that the Bonnie Blue video? So

26:14

anyway, there's this thing that really surprised

26:16

everybody, which with a lot less computing

26:18

power, because we've had these export bans

26:20

on chips going to China, the thought

26:22

was they don't have access to the

26:24

same type of computing power that other

26:27

companies do here. And that's the issue

26:29

with AI right now is the computing

26:31

power, right? Or so it was thought.

26:33

And they solved that issue. Well, it's...

26:35

complicated. So under conditions of scarcity, where

26:37

they had these export controls, they still

26:39

came out of nowhere and said, you

26:41

know what, with a lot fewer chips

26:43

and a lot less powerful chips, they

26:45

nonetheless created a generation of air that

26:48

at least looks as competitive as the

26:50

bleeding edge of what we're producing in

26:52

the United States. And There's a lot

26:54

yet to be known, but they trained

26:56

this using phrases rather than individual words.

26:58

Instead of going out 32 decimal places

27:00

on a number, they only used a

27:02

decimal place. So the way they trained

27:04

the AI, they ended up being a

27:06

lot scrappier in doing it. And we

27:09

can have the whole discussion about deep

27:11

sea can get boring pretty quickly. But

27:13

my point is, we will see examples

27:15

daily, weekly, of other countries, including China,

27:17

having our asses handed it to us,

27:19

unless we wake up and as a

27:21

sputnik-like-like-like moment, say... We are the greatest

27:23

nation and we're gonna act like it

27:25

and we believe that hard work and

27:27

education and excellence rather than victimhood is

27:30

the way to do it. And so

27:32

the funny thing for me is I've

27:34

been saying this for years. It's not

27:36

a different message for me. I've been

27:38

preaching it to the woke left. I

27:40

wrote the book Woke Inc. I wrote

27:42

Nation of Victims a couple of years

27:44

ago and it was perceived as an

27:46

attack on victimhood culture because that's what

27:48

it was in the US. But what

27:51

I intended it as a wake up

27:53

call. many of the same people who

27:55

supported me in delivering that message to

27:57

the work left may have initially had

27:59

a different interpretation of it when I

28:01

talked about it just more holistically for

28:03

everybody. I'm talking about it. I'm talking

28:05

about bootstraps. I'm talking about timberlands. And

28:07

they loved it. I think, you know,

28:09

to puff our, to puff our chest

28:12

abroad, we all got to pull up

28:14

our hands. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I

28:16

agree that there was a whole pull

28:18

up your pants thing. We all got

28:20

to pull up our pants. Okay, and

28:22

we got to be serious about balance

28:24

our budget. We got to actually spend

28:26

in accordance with what we actually bring

28:28

in. We got to seal our border.

28:30

We got to teach our kids how

28:33

to do math and how to read

28:35

and how to write. And I want

28:37

excellence in every domain, by the way.

28:39

I don't think we should be a

28:41

country of only engineers. But if we

28:43

want to be the country where we

28:45

say companies hire American-born workers, that's what

28:47

we all we all want. And then

28:49

may get upset about me saying it

28:51

right now, but it's a question that

28:54

you have to confront, which is why

28:56

are these companies choosing on their own

28:58

to not hire as many American-born workers

29:00

as we want? It's a tough question,

29:02

but we can't hide from asking that

29:04

question if you care about this country.

29:06

I care about this country too much

29:08

to just ignore that question because that

29:10

might be politically convenient. And by the

29:12

way, the H1B system, I hate doing

29:15

this because it's so... lame and sort

29:17

of just repeating yourself. I've said it

29:19

like 150 times in the last year.

29:21

It is a broken system. It is

29:23

flawed. It is badly broken. Why? Why?

29:25

Because there's all kinds of things are

29:27

messed up. Quickly describe what it is.

29:29

It's a worker visa program that allows,

29:31

it's about 85,000 grand a year where

29:33

companies can get a foreign worker in

29:36

a specific role of a specific skill

29:38

set, often used by technology companies. And

29:40

when you say foreign, you mean. India

29:42

is the number one country that uses

29:44

it. We got an H1B here, don't

29:46

we? I think you got China, you

29:48

got other countries as well. Okay. Any

29:50

mind, if there's about 85... But here's

29:52

the deal with it. First of all,

29:54

it's distributed by lottery. So my view

29:57

is that colleges, they pick the very

29:59

best, at least they think for their

30:01

university. What I'm individually picking, it's a

30:03

lottery. That's number one. Number two is,

30:05

if you work for a particular company

30:07

within H1B, here's the big problem. You

30:09

are like an indentured servant to that

30:11

company. Because another company can't hire you,

30:13

so the market's not really working. So

30:15

I have for a long time. And

30:18

you get underpaid overwork, you're constantly afraid

30:20

to get sent back, so they just

30:22

take advantage of that. And then also,

30:24

you could argue that that compresses American

30:26

wages because that person can't be hired

30:28

away, so the company has them under

30:30

a barrel to pay them less. There

30:32

are rules to prevent that, but then

30:34

companies may be abusing inside stepping inside

30:36

stepping those rules. It is not only

30:39

a broken system, it is a deeply

30:41

flawed system in its application. And I've

30:43

said this 100 times, maybe 150 times

30:45

in the last year, but assume we

30:47

fix all of that. And by the

30:49

way, I've got some out-of-the-box ideas for

30:51

how to fix this. I'd say auction

30:53

them off, actually. make the company's pay

30:55

for it? Get back to that. And

30:57

by the way, use that money? If

31:00

you change the word, if you auction

31:02

them off, right? You actually raise that

31:04

money to close Social Security. The right

31:06

is on your side. So we've got

31:08

44 billion dollars. We're going to auctioning

31:10

them off. Seriously, we don't have enough

31:12

money for Social Security. We don't have

31:14

enough money for Social Security. We don't

31:16

want to fill it. We don't do

31:18

that anymore. We're just, I mean, we're,

31:21

we're, we're, this guy can joke around

31:23

like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

31:25

be as loose as I can be

31:27

too. But the point is they can

31:29

pay for it. Make them, make them,

31:31

sell the flesh. Sell their flesh. To

31:33

the highest. The visa. Sell their visa

31:35

to the highest bidder. Flesh! Pay it

31:37

to America, right? We got a social

31:39

security gap. Yeah. Pay it to America,

31:42

right? So you want to make America

31:44

great? We got a social security gap.

31:46

Yeah. Close a social security gap by.

31:48

that if a company wants to hire

31:50

somebody with the equivalent of a new

31:52

H-1B system make them actually pay so

31:54

there's a higher barrier to hire that

31:56

foreign worker yeah but the company will

31:58

pay whatever it's worth to them to

32:00

do it and by the way when

32:03

they do it they shouldn't be endangered

32:05

servants in that company they could work

32:07

at a different company that's a pretty

32:09

efficient approach and it could actually use

32:11

to you know close the Social Security

32:13

trust fund gap or anything else it

32:15

sounds to me right now but those

32:17

are the wonky policy solutions but the

32:19

deeper policy solutions but the deeper question

32:21

though Because everyone likes to go there

32:24

and get to the hard question. Let's

32:26

see, even after you have that system,

32:28

I believe it is likely that companies

32:30

will still, in some measure, hire workers

32:32

that include workers from other countries. And

32:34

by the way, a lot of CEOs,

32:36

what they'll say behind closed doors, is

32:38

if you tell them they can't do

32:40

it here, they start opening up sites

32:42

in other countries. That's what's happening. Some

32:45

of the most successful startups in the

32:47

country right now, founded by names of

32:49

people who... I'm not going to betray

32:51

confidence as you all would recognize. Have

32:53

told me in recent weeks, right? In

32:55

response to all of this, what people

32:57

need to know is that I'm actually

32:59

building teams in places like Brazil, in

33:01

places like Brazil, in places like Europe,

33:03

in places like Europe, in places like

33:06

Europe, in places like Europe, in places

33:08

like Asia. Not because they're smarter. No,

33:10

it's just because it's smarter. No, it's

33:12

not because it's smarter. It's not good

33:14

for America when you create those jobs

33:16

in other countries. Well, it's actually kind

33:18

of interesting. What is like a great

33:20

Brazilian piece of engineering? What have they

33:22

not? It's not my choice to make.

33:24

It's not my choice to make. I'll

33:27

give you decisions that other CEOs are

33:29

making. That's not good for America. We

33:31

want this to be the country where

33:33

the greatest things come out of our

33:35

own home. I agree. So the question

33:37

to ask, the hard question is, why

33:39

when given the choice, are companies not

33:41

making... the choice to hire more American-born

33:43

workers than we want. We gotta reflect

33:45

on that. And then there's a separate

33:48

question. So they got that observation, right?

33:50

Now you got a separate observation. Before

33:52

you go to the second question. No,

33:54

no, no, it's related. The 25% of

33:56

eighth graders and only 20. 25% are

33:58

actually proficient in math. That's a separate

34:00

fact. Are those two facts total coincidences?

34:02

Like is that just a random coincidence

34:04

that we now live in a period

34:06

where American companies are choosing, I don't

34:09

love this, but are choosing not to

34:11

hire as many American-born workers, at the

34:13

exact same time that our educational system

34:15

is producing. lackluster results in math, science,

34:17

and engineering. Are there just random coincidences?

34:19

Or might those have something to do

34:21

with each other? We could explore if

34:23

they do. I'm not convinced. I'm not

34:25

saying, I'm not convinced either. But I'm

34:27

saying that this has to be the

34:30

conversation we're able to have, rather than

34:32

getting upset that the question was asked.

34:34

And I care too much about this

34:36

country to do it. And I think

34:38

that messengers matter. And one of the

34:40

things I learned from this is, you

34:42

know, people, The message through the messenger

34:44

a little bit and For where I

34:46

sit to be super clear about it

34:48

This is the only country I will

34:51

ever pledge allegiance to I have nowhere

34:53

else to go. This is the country

34:55

I will die fighting for if I

34:57

have to and so you know what

34:59

when you care about somebody you tell

35:01

them the truth? Yeah, and if you

35:03

care about yourself you tell them what

35:05

they want to hear? Yeah, and I

35:07

was consistent with that with the left

35:09

It was hard for me to preach

35:12

a message to the left when we

35:14

took a lot of arrows before criticizing

35:16

what culture. Now that's a cool thing

35:18

to do. That was not a cool

35:20

thing to do when I started doing

35:22

it because I don't think that victimhood

35:24

culture is good for black people. I

35:26

don't think it's good for white people.

35:28

I don't think it's good for any

35:30

American people. I don't think victimhood culture

35:33

lifts us up. were victors not victims.

35:35

That's who we are. Yeah, sure. But

35:37

I apply that principle across the board

35:39

in America that all of us, not

35:41

pointing the finger anybody else, includes looking

35:43

in the mirror myself as a guy

35:45

who's raising kids in this country, that

35:47

I worry about, and I see how

35:49

hard that is, I want all of

35:51

us to create a country where those

35:54

kids still grow up in a country

35:56

where excellence is the priority. In math

35:58

and engineering, sure, sports, arts, music, But

36:00

we are a country where we pursue

36:02

excellence. We don't penalize

36:04

somebody for being a striver,

36:06

right? That has a negative

36:08

connotation to it today. Our

36:10

country was built on hard

36:12

workers and strivers and whatever

36:14

domain. We also shouldn't be

36:16

intimidated. Yeah, we shouldn't be

36:18

intimidated. Like we should be

36:20

intimidated. Like we should have

36:22

confidence. We're Americans. Like you're

36:25

coming here and I'm going

36:27

to beat you. was based

36:29

on this idea of manifest

36:31

destiny. It was a manifest

36:33

destiny of a nation. And the

36:35

reason we could do that is because

36:37

other countries have national identities that are

36:39

different than ours. Yeah. Right? Italy or

36:42

Japan or you could go straight, great

36:44

countries, love both countries, but their

36:46

national identities based on a lineage,

36:48

right? Whether you speak the language,

36:51

whether your blood stock, your stock

36:53

of blood goes back. Five generations,

36:55

that's how a thousand of years old. Yes.

36:57

Right. Yes, there's a beautiful geographic space in

36:59

a homeland we love and hold dear, but

37:02

that homeland is changed. That's how it makes

37:04

you American. Right. It used to be 13

37:06

colonies. Then you got the Louisiana purchase. Then

37:08

you have out west. Then you had Alaska.

37:10

Hawaii. Maybe there will be more to it

37:12

to be coming soon. Gangs. But it doesn't

37:14

it doesn't matter. The land is not the

37:17

core element of America. The blood and soil

37:19

is important, but it's not the essence. The

37:21

essence is what are the ideals that bind

37:23

us together across those otherwise geographically diverse and

37:25

expansive differences? And to me it's those

37:27

ideals that we pursue excellence. We believe

37:29

in merit, that the best person gets

37:32

the job, that you can achieve the

37:34

maximum of your own potential without anybody

37:36

standing in your way and speak your

37:38

mind at every step of the way.

37:40

That's what makes America great. That's why

37:42

we win. Yes. So we have to

37:44

revive that. But right now I feel

37:46

like, especially the last four years. We've

37:49

gone through a little bit of

37:51

a lethargic period. And I think

37:53

most people who may have had issues

37:55

with, you know, the way I framed it,

37:57

you know, a few weeks ago. would

38:00

agree with me that we wouldn't have

38:02

to make America great again if America

38:04

was already perfect. We should have the

38:06

humility and the love of our country

38:08

to not only admit that, but to

38:10

embrace the challenge on the other side

38:12

of it, to say that we're still

38:14

going to strive to be better than

38:17

we've ever been. That's who we are.

38:19

And that's the spirit I want to

38:21

bring back in the country. And if

38:23

I'm being honest, I think we've lost

38:25

some of that. But you've lost some

38:27

of that. white Christian Americans don't like

38:29

a brown guy holding the mirror up

38:31

to their thing. That's what this is

38:33

all about. Don't you dare talk about

38:35

it. Don't you dare talk about it.

38:38

So it's funny, it's funny you know

38:40

that's what it is. I reject and

38:42

in my in my arguments friendly but

38:44

healthy heated arguments with the left over

38:46

the last four years have been steadfast

38:48

on this and I don't intend to

38:50

change my position now. my position in

38:52

talking to the left, including black audiences

38:54

or places where, you know, there was

38:56

this idea that if you're not black

38:59

you can't say certain things. I never

39:01

believe that. I think that your ideas

39:03

stand on your own merits regardless of

39:05

your own skin color and you got

39:07

to express them. That's what America's founded

39:09

on. So if that was my, and

39:11

I got a lot of applause from

39:13

many corridors of the conservative movement for

39:15

maintaining a hard line on that. But

39:17

that's always been my belief. And I'm

39:20

not about to change that belief now

39:22

either. So I believe in being consistent

39:24

across the board. Here's my fear for

39:26

you. Someone who roots for you. You

39:28

said it yourself, the messenger matters. You're

39:30

going to run in a state. Conservative,

39:32

I guess, is a good way of

39:34

putting it. And two, having grown up

39:36

in a conservative state, knowing a lot

39:38

of conservatives, love them, but there's a

39:41

good percentage of them, I would say

39:43

20% comfortably comfortably, and culture. said this

39:45

exact thing. I'm not saying you can't

39:47

run or whatever. My question is she

39:49

literally said this. She literally said I

39:51

would not vote for him because he's

39:53

in because no, yeah, really. Have you

39:55

spoken to her recently? No, we don't.

39:57

I don't have, I don't have too

39:59

much to say. Anyway, today is, how

40:02

do you overcome that? And I would,

40:04

listen, this is a beautiful moment to

40:06

speak to your ideals and what you

40:08

believe in. And I love those ideals.

40:10

However, this is a practical problem that

40:12

you will have to overcome. Can you

40:14

just do that with ideals? So I

40:16

think here's what I believe. It happens

40:18

to be true, right? If I'm wrong

40:20

about this, then I won't be a

40:23

successful American politician. I'm okay with that.

40:25

My goal in life is not to

40:27

be a successful American politician. My goal

40:29

in this phase of my life is

40:31

to change this country for the better

40:33

by doing what I believe is truthful

40:35

and required for saving our nation. That's

40:37

why I worked hard, worked my tail

40:39

off to get Donald Trump back in

40:41

office because I didn't get the federal

40:44

level. He is the guy to lead

40:46

us back to our sense of self-confidence

40:48

and greatness. So now when I look

40:50

at what I'm doing, my goal is

40:52

not to map some sort of focus

40:54

group path to what you're supposed to

40:56

win in an election. reviving excellence in

40:58

America. It so happens though that I

41:00

think most people, including in the Republican

41:02

Party, agree with the core principles of

41:05

meritocracy, the pursuit of excellence. I do

41:07

think the majority, but I think it's

41:09

not. And I'm not going to get

41:11

100% of people support me. That's great.

41:13

It's the beauty of a democracy. So

41:15

I think that the majority of people

41:17

in this country. And certainly,

41:19

I think even the majority of conservatives,

41:22

especially the majority of conservatives, believe in

41:24

hard work, self-reliance, self-determination, meritocracy, excellence. That's

41:26

what I stand for. So I believe

41:28

I'll be successful. And you know what?

41:30

I would rather speak my message and

41:32

achieve whatever, whether that's success or failure.

41:35

I don't care about that as much

41:37

as speaking the truth of what I

41:39

actually believe, and I think that happens

41:41

to be the best electoral strategy. But

41:43

are you shocked, were you shocked at

41:46

the, I guess, racial blowback that you

41:48

received when you tweeted that? Or was

41:50

that surprising to you? Because I did

41:52

notice this sense, and I do think

41:54

I'm a moderate person, but I notice

41:57

this sense amongst my brown Republican friends

41:59

who were like shocked that this... Yeah,

42:01

I mean I think there's a couple

42:03

things funny to me. Where was the

42:05

racial pushback? There's a couple things going

42:07

on. No, no, no, but what were

42:10

they saying? I mean, all kinds of

42:12

shit on the internet now. Funny means

42:14

at all? I don't know. Yeah, I

42:16

mean. I wouldn't think it was super

42:18

fun. You're probably funnier, you know, in

42:21

the scale of humor. Yeah, yeah. At

42:23

times, you know. Sometimes they got some

42:25

banger, like. Yeah, it might have been,

42:27

it might have been one or two.

42:29

Did they put you on top of

42:32

a train or anything like that? I

42:34

didn't get that. I don't get that.

42:36

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. The online

42:38

world is not the real world. I

42:40

think the other thing is you look

42:43

you look at actually real people in

42:45

3D. I mean you got a bunch

42:47

of people with burner accounts that can't

42:49

identify. The energy changes completely. I could

42:51

care less to be honest to I'm

42:53

not I could care less to be

42:56

honest with you about what some sort

42:58

of you know somebody calls you a

43:00

name you put yourself in the public

43:02

domain and you're putting yourself in a

43:04

position to be a leader in the

43:07

country. Yeah that stuff's going to bother

43:09

you weren't cut out for it in

43:11

the first. is that we're not victims.

43:13

We're victors. That's the example we said.

43:15

So I'm not gonna be some victim

43:18

of, was there a lot of ugly

43:20

racist stuff set on the internet? Big

43:22

news flash, big surprise. What are you

43:24

expecting? The depths of anonymous internet. So

43:26

commentary. I care less. It's not gonna

43:28

deter me. And to the contrary, what

43:31

I do care about though, is my

43:33

goal is not just to provoke for

43:35

the sake of provoking. No. I want

43:37

to be able to have an earnest.

43:39

an open conversation in our country about

43:42

how we excel at a level that

43:44

we have in the past. We're the

43:46

country. If you think about my home

43:48

state of Ohio, St. Neil Armstrong, John

43:50

Glenn, to outer space in the outer

43:53

frontiers, there's no reason the outer space

43:55

in the outer frontiers. There's no reason

43:57

Ohio can't be the heart of that

43:59

again. There's no reason the United States

44:01

of America can't view this as our

44:04

sputnik moment right now. to come back.

44:06

we've always been, but we can't just

44:08

expect that to happen automatically. And so

44:10

I do care about an honest self-reflection.

44:12

As a citizen of the greatest nation

44:14

known to the history of mankind, how

44:17

do we still pursue greatness at a

44:19

higher level than we ever have? I

44:21

really care about that. And I think

44:23

that sometimes that involves tough conversations. I'm

44:25

game for it. It's gonna involve a

44:28

lot of criticism along the way. I'm

44:30

fine with that. If you can't handle

44:32

the game, get out of the game.

44:34

All right guys, let's take a break

44:36

for a second. Let's just be honest.

44:39

Okay, you need some therapy. Okay. Now

44:41

there's no more taboo with mental health.

44:43

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44:45

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44:47

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44:50

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44:52

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44:58

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I mean, look at Akash, right? Holds,

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45:11

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45:14

We all need to aspire to be

45:16

more therapies like Akash. Isn't that right,

45:18

Akash? No, I'm great too. My wife,

45:20

I think my friends, I'm a much

45:22

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45:25

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visiting pd-s-deth.com/flager. Let's get back to

47:59

this. If people accept the root

48:01

reflection, how do we ameliorate the actual

48:03

root cause? Sure. Sure. So that's what

48:05

we should be talking about. So I

48:07

think a lot of this starts with

48:10

early education in the country. First of

48:12

all, a lot of this even goes

48:14

to the concerns about inequality. First of

48:16

all, a lot of this even goes

48:18

to concerns about inequality. I think that

48:21

every kid who's born in this country,

48:23

starting at the age of four, if

48:25

not at the federal level. as part

48:27

of when I'm thinking about my own

48:29

next step that happens at the state

48:32

level. That's really where these changes happen.

48:34

I think that restoring at least a

48:36

norm in the country of a solid

48:38

family foundation. Does that mean that somebody

48:40

who grows up in a broken family

48:42

environment or a single parent household can't

48:45

achieve great success? No, of course not.

48:47

But all else equal, it tends to

48:49

be from a stable family, generally too

48:51

parent upbringing. You're going to be able

48:53

to jump higher if you're jumping from

48:56

a ground that isn't shaking. And I

48:58

think a disproportionate focus on high quality

49:00

education starting young, on measuring that achievement,

49:02

starting young, and then some cultural shift,

49:04

and you tend to get more of

49:06

what you valorize as a culture, right?

49:09

So I think it's fantastic that we

49:11

valorize a lot of different things in

49:13

American culture that are great because we

49:15

produce great comedians, we produce great athletes,

49:17

we have historically produced great scientists, scientists,

49:20

and engineers. It's great. You get more

49:22

of what you valorize. But what I've

49:24

seen a little bit that concerns me

49:26

in probably the last 20 years, you

49:28

could say, you could blame some of

49:30

this in the woke left, but it's

49:33

not exclusively at the feet of the

49:35

woke left, is penalizing excellence, right? Penilizing

49:37

the person who works hard and wins,

49:39

and instead rewarding the victim. And I

49:41

think that if you reward victimhood, you

49:44

get more victimhood. And if you penalize

49:46

excellence in hard work, you're going to

49:48

get less excellence in less hard work.

49:50

So I think it's going to be

49:52

a combination of policies that allow people

49:54

to have access to the best possible

49:57

education at a young age and start

49:59

measuring and rule. for success earlier, merit-based

50:01

pay for teachers, not just everybody just

50:03

getting the same thing for treating kids

50:05

like they're on an assembly line, but

50:08

actually measuring and pinpointing the people who

50:10

are putting kids on even a little

50:12

bit of a trajectory that's different when

50:14

they're four years old, by the time

50:16

they're at 12th grade, you could run

50:18

a truck through that, okay? So those

50:21

increments of difference, starting even young, that's

50:23

a big freaking difference. And then to

50:25

create a culture that... We don't need

50:27

to create it, we seem to revive

50:29

it, because it is our culture. To

50:32

celebrate whoever's the best, to reward them,

50:34

to celebrate that in every domain, right?

50:36

Not just academics, academics to athletics, physical

50:38

excellence. I actually, to some other controversy

50:40

two years ago, favored bringing back what's

50:42

called the Presidential Fitness Test. They used

50:45

to have middle school. kids go through

50:47

that. They take that away now. How

50:49

many push-ups can these kids do? We

50:51

don't valorize that type of physical excellence.

50:53

We should. I love sports. I mean,

50:56

I was a four-year varsity athlete myself.

50:58

It sometimes can make you a better

51:00

thinker too. But we should embrace excellence

51:02

in all of its forms rather than

51:04

this thing that we kind of teach

51:06

our kids to do nowadays. I'm not

51:09

criticizing anybody else. Like, my kids grow

51:11

up in a really different environment than

51:13

I grew up in. somewhat concerned about

51:15

that. It makes me think a lot

51:17

as apparent about how do you cultivate

51:20

that same environment where we participation trophy

51:22

culture. We should have trophies for the

51:24

winners, not participation trophies. That was America,

51:26

right? That was the America that produced

51:28

greatness. I worry a little bit about

51:30

taking the guy who's a striver. and

51:33

using that and make that a negative

51:35

connotation rather than celebrating the person who's

51:37

going to put their head down and

51:39

work hard, be it at basketball, be

51:41

it at the violin, be it at

51:44

math, or be in the science competitions.

51:46

And I do think that that's a

51:48

culture that is American at its core.

51:50

Maybe we've lost our way on that

51:52

a little bit, I think we have.

51:55

But bring that the culture that produced

51:57

great... greatness at every time we've been

51:59

at our best, with the country that

52:01

put the man on the moon, the

52:03

country that was the country of the

52:05

pioneers, the explorers, the Lucent Clark expeditions,

52:08

for God's sake. Merit-based pay for teachers

52:10

is interesting. I've never heard of that.

52:12

How do you implement that? Super required.

52:14

Yeah, well, yeah. Teachers unions are an

52:16

obstacle. I think that there's an obstacle.

52:19

But I think that the idea that

52:21

you're going to have... It's participation trophy

52:23

culture for kids. We can't just have

52:25

participation trophy culture for the people who

52:27

are educating our kids either. Question about

52:29

that. Should unions be able to negotiate

52:32

against the state? I think that in

52:34

certain domains it's uncontroversial that they shouldn't.

52:36

Public school teachers, if you're unionizing as

52:38

a public school teacher, who are you

52:40

unionizing against? And also who's the very

52:43

people you're supposed to represent? But also

52:45

who is rewarding that union? Someone who's

52:47

going to be in office for two,

52:49

four years, and then they move on.

52:51

So they don't have to deal with

52:53

the repercussions of bad policy. Which is

52:56

totally different from different kinds of unions,

52:58

right? Private sector unions came up about

53:00

fighting against monopoly power, against capitalistic consolidation.

53:02

But public sector unions. Even you had

53:04

FDR, I think, actually, who was a

53:07

big pro-union guy that expressed a lot

53:09

of skepticism about public sector unions. And

53:11

then you could talk about, you know,

53:13

I would put police and fire, that's

53:15

in a different category because there are

53:17

a lot of concerns that relate to

53:20

how they're insured or protected in the

53:22

case of putting their own lives on

53:24

the line. But let's just start with

53:26

the easiest example where I think most

53:28

people agree. means you're unionizing against

53:31

the very people you're supposed to serve for

53:33

example kids who you're teaching right that one

53:35

of the how are unionizing against yeah what

53:37

are they advocating for what you're advocating for

53:39

you advocate for summer break let's just start

53:41

with that so you're advocating for and I

53:43

talk about summer break this is a super

53:46

boring subject to a lot of people I

53:48

think is a super important subject I've you

53:50

know includes in in one of my earlier

53:52

books is you actually see regress when a

53:54

kid finishes the school year in the spring

53:56

versus when they show up in the fall.

53:59

But kids from well to do family. that

54:01

regress is really small because they're able to

54:03

pay for and seek out high engagement activity

54:05

over those three months from poor or less

54:07

well-to-do school districts that's where the gap actually

54:09

grows just the regress when they show up

54:12

in the fall that's just one example I

54:14

think it is a nice perk of being

54:16

a teacher that you have summer break but

54:19

we should take a look at what produces

54:21

the best results and conversely The very best

54:23

aren't rewarded. Let's say you're actually doing

54:25

the best job amongst your pack of

54:27

peers of teachers in teaching kids how

54:30

to excel in math and science and

54:32

reading ability and critical thinking in a

54:34

way that's measurable. That person still gets

54:36

paid the same salary, which I think

54:38

is way too low right now. I

54:40

think the market... I was just going

54:42

to say that. Teachers are severely underpaid.

54:45

So you think getting rid of unions,

54:47

they're going to start, the state's going

54:49

to be like, oh, let's play them

54:51

more? I think the best ones would

54:53

actually get paid more money. Especially it's

54:55

in the context of a true market-based

54:57

system where the people at the level

54:59

of the family have the ability, whether

55:01

they can afford it can afford it

55:04

or not. Absolutely, there's good evidence for

55:06

this. I think you have too much

55:08

faith in state budgets. Well, I don't

55:10

have faith. I mean, I don't think

55:12

it happens. I don't think it happens

55:14

magically. I'm with you. It doesn't happen

55:16

magically, but I think that great

55:19

leaders can make a difference. I

55:21

think that great leaders can make

55:23

a difference. I think good leaders

55:25

with the right policies at the

55:27

level of the state can fix

55:30

this problem. This is a man-made

55:32

problem. and every man-made problem has

55:34

a man-made solution. I believe that.

55:36

And if we value education as

55:38

highly as you'd like, then that's

55:40

the budget you cut last. You

55:43

see what I'm saying? It's not

55:45

just the budget. It's not just

55:47

the budget. It's not just the

55:49

budget. Don't value it already. It's

55:51

about how you use it. That's an

55:53

issue. It's about how you use it. It's

55:55

about how you use it. It's about how

55:58

you use it. That's an issue. So the

56:00

best teachers and dumb schools? Well, look,

56:02

and we're here in New York City

56:04

close to downtown. You got the best

56:06

traders on a Wall Street firm. If

56:08

they make most profit for the firm,

56:10

which is their mission, they get paid

56:12

more rather than the guy who didn't.

56:15

Why would we want to operate our

56:17

schools in a way that's the opposite

56:19

principle? How would you decide what merit

56:21

is for a standardized test? There's upsides

56:23

and downsides to just be slaves of

56:25

the test, right? Nobody just wants to

56:27

solve for one metric. But you know

56:29

there's give me no perfect system. I'll

56:31

be the first to acknowledge that but

56:33

is a system that has a combination

56:35

of objective metrics Even if the metrics

56:37

aren't perfect better than one that has

56:39

none at all I think it is

56:42

strictly better, right? So I think we

56:44

can't let the fact that you're going

56:46

to have some flaw in whatever metric

56:48

you used to say that therefore we're

56:50

not going to be paralyzed trying to

56:52

be perfect competitive. And I think that's

56:54

far where the victim would culture comes

56:56

from. But aren't, even in a state,

56:58

if you train your kids to be

57:00

actually prepared to compete, then they don't

57:02

think of themselves as victim. I think

57:04

we also have victories. Consider that like

57:07

sometimes teachers are at the mercy of

57:09

the families that these kids are at

57:11

the mercy of the families that these

57:13

kids are born into. Absolutely. Absolutely. And

57:15

we can't punish teachers for the country.

57:17

restoring a solid, rock-solid family foundation as

57:19

the norm. How do you do that

57:21

through policy? Yeah, some of it is

57:23

at least eliminate the disincentives to do

57:25

it, right? I think there's accidents. I

57:27

don't think that somebody nefariously did this

57:29

to the point we were talking about

57:31

earlier. But there are weird distortions where

57:34

actually people can... make more money by

57:36

not having a man in the house

57:38

than to have a man in the

57:40

house. I think those are accidents of

57:42

arithmetic in the way that the great

57:44

society under Lyndon Johnson worked out. So

57:46

that's not going to solve all the

57:48

problem, but at least start with eliminating

57:50

the disincentives. I think some of this

57:52

doesn't just happen through policy, some of

57:54

it happens through cultural... norm shifts as

57:56

well, making it cool to be part

57:59

of a family. I think making family

58:01

cool again is a great thing for

58:03

the country. I do think that when

58:05

our leaders are able to, you know,

58:07

I mean, even my own journey over

58:09

the last couple years, we did it

58:11

as a family, but we showed the

58:13

world that we did it as a

58:15

family too. And to people my age

58:17

and to the next generation, I think

58:19

that's a great norm to set and

58:21

to show the country that fathers and

58:23

mothers equally or Yeah. How do you

58:26

bake that into the identity of an

58:28

American family? You know, I think we're

58:30

going to see it happen. I think

58:32

it already, I'm pretty optimistic because I

58:34

see that dial turning a little bit,

58:36

even in just the way that Hollywood

58:38

might make a movie, right? What kind

58:40

of movie appeals to what really are

58:42

the masses of Americans who agree with

58:44

these concepts? It's almost like a business

58:46

opportunity that opens up once you give

58:48

people the permission to think a little

58:51

bit differently. And so that's one of

58:53

the things I love about this election,

58:55

is it has mostly turned the page

58:57

on at least the woke cancel culture

58:59

in a way that I think is

59:01

productive, mostly has given people a sense

59:03

of permission to speak openly and rethink,

59:05

I think a lot of the toxicity

59:07

the last few years. I think we're

59:09

going to see, as you see, a

59:11

lot of corporations maybe responding, and that's

59:13

a different discussion about how they're thinking

59:15

about, you know, But I think you're

59:18

going to see similar evolution in the

59:20

arts, right? The kind of songs that

59:22

people make, the kind of movies that

59:24

people make. Not, it's boring stuff that

59:26

hits you over the head and preaches

59:28

about the importance of having a family,

59:30

but what you show is a norm

59:32

of what's actually beautiful and worthy and

59:34

desirable in America. I think that culture

59:36

will reinforce policies that also take away

59:38

the disincentives for family funding. Which you're

59:40

saying sounds, sounds, sounds, sounds really good,

59:43

and maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Like I

59:45

don't see anyone who anyone who's like,

59:47

oh, I can't wait to be a

59:49

single parent household. Like no one's like

59:51

driving to not have a loving family.

59:53

So like, where is this problem? Can

59:55

you give me an example of that?

59:57

Well, I do think that there are...

59:59

I mean, fix women. That's the real

1:00:01

issue. I do think that it's a

1:00:03

fact. We need some policy about that.

1:00:05

We need some policy about that. It

1:00:07

is a fact that many women make

1:00:10

more money from being married to a

1:00:12

husband. They're being married to a husband.

1:00:14

They're being married to a husband. They're

1:00:16

being married. They're being married. They're being

1:00:18

married. They're being married. They're being married.

1:00:20

or corporations not paying people enough? Well,

1:00:22

that's a separate debate that we could

1:00:24

have, but I think that, you know,

1:00:26

that's, how do you get corporations to

1:00:28

pay people more is you actually have,

1:00:30

I believe, a competitive market economy that

1:00:32

allows people to get jobs in a

1:00:35

growing economy. That's a separate discussion about

1:00:37

economic policy. But even if you're going

1:00:39

to have programs of government aid, which

1:00:41

most of them I'm skeptical of, but

1:00:43

if you're going to have it, Do

1:00:45

it in a way that doesn't create

1:00:47

a disincentive to pay somebody more in

1:00:49

the exact same situation where single mother

1:00:51

without a man in the house, single

1:00:53

mother married man in the house, this

1:00:55

one gets more money than this one,

1:00:57

I don't think that that's a good

1:00:59

incentive structure to create. But I'm not

1:01:02

going to promise you that the good

1:01:04

incentive structure to create. But I'm not

1:01:06

going to promise you that the solution

1:01:08

is all going to come through policy

1:01:10

on the best possible education they can

1:01:12

at a young age. Then you get

1:01:14

to the hard stuff. I do think

1:01:16

that restoring the new family norm is

1:01:18

a hard thing. I grew up in

1:01:20

a really poor neighborhood. I'm sure there's

1:01:22

always people that try to take advantage

1:01:24

of the system, but the majority of

1:01:27

people weren't like happy to be on

1:01:29

welfare. Like it was a necessity. Sure.

1:01:31

So I like you say that like,

1:01:33

uh, they'll get paid more. Not being

1:01:35

in a relationship like no one's striving

1:01:37

for I agree with that and it's

1:01:39

like I think the least you can

1:01:41

do is to market it that way

1:01:43

I feel it's a little bit Let

1:01:45

me ask you a question. Let me

1:01:47

ask you actually actually be I'm super

1:01:49

interested in this I don't have all

1:01:51

of the answers of what the government

1:01:54

is supposed to do to recreate family

1:01:56

formation. I think some of this is

1:01:58

not going to come from the government

1:02:00

the government should do the best we

1:02:02

can. What would be your perspective on how

1:02:04

we could actually enhance more stable

1:02:06

family formation in the country, given

1:02:09

your own background that you share?

1:02:11

I think money is the thing

1:02:13

that fixes a lot, and if

1:02:15

corporations are paying people more, now

1:02:17

people can have two family households and make more than if

1:02:19

the government was helping them out. I would love people to be able

1:02:22

to earn more as well, which... requires a vibrant economy rather than

1:02:24

a shrinking economy over the course of generation. Yeah, if we're paying people

1:02:26

$15 on 40 hours a week, that's no money. No one can

1:02:28

live off that. I mean, it's not even 15 to be to

1:02:30

his point. So when you first said corporations, I was thinking corporate jobs,

1:02:32

but even one wage, 725, so many years, so many years, so

1:02:34

many years. I mean, inflation has gone insane. And like, I don't

1:02:36

mean to pull it back to my favorite topic, but I pull it

1:02:38

back to my favorite topic, but I pull it back because I

1:02:40

think it back to my favorite topic, because I think it relates

1:02:42

to my favorite topic, because I think it relates to my favorite topic,

1:02:44

because I think it relates to my favorite topic, because I think

1:02:46

it relates to my thing, because I think it relates to my

1:02:49

favorite topic, because I think it relates to my

1:02:51

favorite topic, because I think it relates to my

1:02:53

favorite topic, because I think it relates to my

1:02:55

favorite topic, because I think it relates to my

1:02:58

The reason people can't afford a house is in

1:03:00

part because we have a crisis of not enough

1:03:02

housing construction in the country. Why? Because... there's too

1:03:04

much red tape to be able to build a

1:03:07

single family home. So building large... Because people aren't

1:03:09

making enough money to afford houses. Housing costs are

1:03:11

also not housing costs of shot out. You're going

1:03:13

to see it happen in California right now. You're

1:03:15

seeing it happen across the country. No, but specifically

1:03:18

when they start to rebuild. There's a

1:03:20

lot of people out there. But specifically

1:03:22

when they start to rebuild. There's a

1:03:24

lot of people out there. There's a

1:03:26

lot of happen across the country. But

1:03:28

specifically when they start to rebuild. and

1:03:30

at a state level, that say you

1:03:32

can't build a new house in this

1:03:34

area if it's too small, if it's

1:03:37

a single-family home, that restricts the supply

1:03:39

of new housing. When you have less

1:03:41

supply, prices go up, and that's

1:03:43

a big part of why people

1:03:45

aren't able to afford housing, which

1:03:47

I think is a major problem

1:03:49

amongst Republicans and Democrats. But let's

1:03:51

say it beyond housing. To his

1:03:53

point, I hate to not side

1:03:55

with the Indian, but a box

1:03:57

of cereal in New York legitimately

1:03:59

is $10. and I don't want to

1:04:01

buy a house, and I don't care

1:04:03

about that. I'm still fucking struggling. And

1:04:05

if it's $15 an hour in New

1:04:07

York, even if things are more expensive,

1:04:09

$7.25 in Texas, a box of serialist,

1:04:11

$5. I got a family of four

1:04:13

to feed. I'm working 40 hours a

1:04:15

week on minimum wage. What am I

1:04:17

going to do? It's like the I

1:04:19

and I support a lot of what

1:04:21

you're saying But there is a problem

1:04:23

sure that might require more regulation which

1:04:25

is we inflation continues to go crazy

1:04:27

CEO salaries continue to go crazy They

1:04:29

outpaced inflation minimum wage has been stagnant

1:04:31

for 20 I mean largely stagnant since

1:04:33

I was a kid. So here is

1:04:35

my view. I think that the best

1:04:37

way the reason I want to dismantle

1:04:39

the regulatory state is not because that

1:04:41

is a more important objective than helping

1:04:43

the American worker It is because I

1:04:45

believe it is the way to best

1:04:47

aid the American worker. And right now,

1:04:49

a shrinking economy or an economy that

1:04:52

isn't growing at the pace that we

1:04:54

historically have, that brings everybody down. Shrinks

1:04:56

the size of the pie. I think

1:04:58

companies, we want companies to independently make

1:05:00

the choice to hire the choice to

1:05:02

hire the choice to hire the best

1:05:04

and brightest in the United States and

1:05:06

pay them at a rate that allows

1:05:08

people to flourish and live a great

1:05:10

life. We can all agree that hasn't

1:05:12

been the case in this country. I

1:05:14

think most of that is a function

1:05:16

of actually bad government policy by the

1:05:18

actual regulatory state and bureaucracy. You think

1:05:20

about the Federal Reserve? I mean, the

1:05:22

Federal Reserve is a little technical, but

1:05:24

it tightens monetary policy every time wages

1:05:26

go up. This is actually one of

1:05:28

the best kept secrets of how Federal

1:05:30

Reserve policy has hurt workers in this

1:05:32

country. They say that was a leading

1:05:34

indicator of inflation. It's a leading indicator

1:05:36

of wages are going up. So wages

1:05:38

going up already was programmed into the

1:05:40

mind of this bureaucracy that that's all

1:05:42

us equal to a bad thing. Well,

1:05:44

here's what we've learned. Is it actually

1:05:46

company people start making more money? Yeah,

1:05:48

we got too much money. Right. It's

1:05:50

even worse than that. It's even worse

1:05:52

than that because, as you will probably

1:05:54

appreciate, the last thing to go up

1:05:56

in the business cycle when the economy

1:05:58

is hot, the very last thing to

1:06:00

go up is wages. So what we

1:06:02

actually discovered in retrospect is they thought

1:06:04

that was a leading indicator of inflation.

1:06:06

Oh gosh, we got to raise interest

1:06:08

rates and tighten monetary policy. They actually

1:06:10

got it wrong? Yeah. It was the

1:06:12

tail end of the business cycle when

1:06:14

wages were growing up, which means they

1:06:16

tightened monetary policy right into a natural

1:06:19

downturn of the business cycle, which is

1:06:21

how you got the await crisis, which

1:06:23

by the way, people are age, a

1:06:25

big source of inequality was still the

1:06:27

aftermath of that great recession after the

1:06:29

2008 financial crisis. crisis. I don't think

1:06:31

that is... No, no, no, no. But

1:06:33

it worsened it. It exacerbated it. It

1:06:35

exacerbated it and it caused it to

1:06:37

last. Poor people, one and more. It

1:06:39

was actually the Federal Reserve tightening monitor.

1:06:41

Anyway, it lasted a lot longer, even

1:06:43

in the aftermath of it. But my

1:06:45

point is, imagine you didn't have any

1:06:47

of that regulatory state all in. You

1:06:49

fast forward 20 years later, would we

1:06:51

have been better off if none of

1:06:53

the bureaucracy had even tried to do

1:06:55

it? And by the way, just take

1:06:57

the money that was spent by that

1:06:59

bureaucracy and put it in the pockets

1:07:01

of people? Yes, we would, so how

1:07:03

come that bureaucracy is not affecting CEOs

1:07:05

pays? Because theirs has been going on.

1:07:07

So I think there is a point.

1:07:09

Well, I think the reality is the

1:07:11

bureaucracy is what determines that pay. Right.

1:07:13

Now I believe in the market actually

1:07:15

working. this gets into a separate market

1:07:17

structure. So normally shareholders, you're asking the

1:07:19

question I'll give you the answer because

1:07:21

this is actually a topic that was

1:07:23

near and dear to my heart, I

1:07:25

started a company that was on this

1:07:27

very issue. Shareholders are the supposed bosses

1:07:29

of a corporation and public companies. It

1:07:31

turns out that most public companies have

1:07:33

their stock held by a really concentrated

1:07:35

small number of firms. Black Rock State

1:07:37

Street Vanguard among them. They're the ones

1:07:39

who are actually voting for CEO pay,

1:07:41

not the actual shareholders themselves. So historically,

1:07:44

the way the market economy is supposed

1:07:46

to work is the shareholders hold the

1:07:48

firm accountable. Instead, you have a lot

1:07:50

of these concentrated financial actors that are

1:07:52

voting their shares on behalf of the

1:07:54

everyday American or the pension fund holder

1:07:56

in a way that has resulted. I

1:07:58

do think in some level of inefficiency.

1:08:00

So wherever you look in our country,

1:08:02

the rise of this managerial class, wherever

1:08:04

you see the rise of bureaucracy, the

1:08:06

American citizen tends to lose in the

1:08:08

end. The everyday citizen tends to lose

1:08:10

in the end. And so my general

1:08:12

form of solution is as a first

1:08:14

step, take a jackhammer to the bureaucracy.

1:08:16

Take the savings and put them in

1:08:18

the pockets of everyday citizens. Real quick.

1:08:20

Real quick. Things are going to happen.

1:08:22

On that. You said Black Rock. What

1:08:24

did you say? State Street, Van Gogh.

1:08:26

Van Gogh. Okay. So they. That's where

1:08:28

a lot of ESG stuff, by the

1:08:30

way, came from too. Yes, she is.

1:08:32

Like these environmental and social constraints on

1:08:34

these firms. Got it. Came from the

1:08:36

same firms that in many ways we

1:08:38

understand. It's not their. capital, right? It's

1:08:40

not their assets. People are putting their

1:08:42

money into these companies. They invest it.

1:08:44

But what's happening is they're using the

1:08:46

leverage of all that capital to push

1:08:48

policy onto these companies. And then the

1:08:50

shareholders are actually not seeing The capital

1:08:52

owners, you can call them the capitals,

1:08:54

because right now they call them Black

1:08:56

Rock and Vanguard, the shareholders, the shareholders,

1:08:58

air quotes, the actual capital owner is

1:09:00

totally what they want. Exactly, exactly. Exactly.

1:09:02

And matter of fact, sometimes those policies

1:09:04

negatively impact their returns. I believe that's

1:09:06

the case. I believe that's the case.

1:09:08

I strongly believe that's the case. I

1:09:11

wrote a couple books about it. I

1:09:13

also started a competitor to Black Rock

1:09:15

called Strive. This is a few years

1:09:17

ago. So I care about trying to

1:09:19

solve these problems, to solve these problems,

1:09:21

But one of the reasons I understand

1:09:23

politics is there's only so much you

1:09:25

can do through the market when the

1:09:27

root cause of why these firms are

1:09:29

structured this way is actually traces back

1:09:31

to the regulatory environment that creates the

1:09:33

incentives for that type of consolidation in

1:09:35

the first place. Guys, listen, you know,

1:09:37

an exciting weekend, I think that we

1:09:39

need to have a little bit of

1:09:41

a discussion about Akash and his picks

1:09:43

and... Before we get to the picks,

1:09:45

can I just say how right I

1:09:47

was about not being a cowboy? fan.

1:09:49

Okay, tell me. Oh, first of all,

1:09:51

and Radi, you're welcome. Because I last

1:09:53

year said I'm done with the Cowboys,

1:09:55

it's never going to change. You guys

1:09:57

pretended you were sports fans, you insulted

1:09:59

me, people online insulted me, I took

1:10:01

a lot of hatred. They hired this

1:10:03

guy to be their head coach. This

1:10:05

guy, maybe he'll be a good coach,

1:10:07

he has no qualifications. His name is

1:10:09

Brian Schottenheimer. He's been a coordinator for

1:10:11

about 15, 20 years. He's gotten one

1:10:13

head coach interview his whole life. But

1:10:15

because the cowboys are cheap and they

1:10:17

don't want to pay money for a

1:10:19

head coach, even though there's no salary

1:10:21

cap, they had this guy who's a

1:10:23

shitty, who's a head coach, he's the

1:10:25

head coach now, we can boss him

1:10:27

around, we'll save a lot of money.

1:10:29

everything is going to be good and

1:10:31

I saw so many cowboy fans saying

1:10:33

you know what I'm done with this

1:10:36

team I've given up hope it's never

1:10:38

going to happen and suddenly their reception

1:10:40

hey man I get it you're right

1:10:42

You have the right to go support

1:10:44

another team. I want you to know,

1:10:46

I took those arrows for you. I

1:10:48

took those arrows for you. Did those

1:10:50

other cowboys say they want to kill

1:10:52

Jerry Jones? You're welcome. Not yet. Give

1:10:54

it a season. Give it a season.

1:10:56

And I, he doesn't have to die.

1:10:58

But just, you know, there's a couple

1:11:00

of meat-two cases out there. Oh my

1:11:02

God. Do you guys care about women?

1:11:04

This is bad. Do you guys care

1:11:06

about two women? I just felt so

1:11:08

vindicated this week. I care about whom

1:11:10

on. Say what? You have a mom,

1:11:12

bro. Hey, she made her bad, bro.

1:11:14

You know what I mean? She said,

1:11:16

I guess it does. I forgive you,

1:11:18

though. I forgive you, though. I forgive

1:11:20

you, though. I forgive you, though. You

1:11:22

know what I mean? She can't get

1:11:24

me, too. You fucking me too. What

1:11:26

about your other picks? I never remember.

1:11:28

I don't know any of the words.

1:11:30

I don't know any of the words

1:11:32

you're saying. I said the Eagles would

1:11:34

win. I said I'm going to go

1:11:36

with the bills over the Chiefs. I

1:11:38

didn't feel good about it. I was

1:11:40

wrong, betting as Patrick Holmes, I guess,

1:11:42

is just insane. You're almost right, though.

1:11:44

It was close. It was a good

1:11:46

story, man. It was a good game.

1:11:48

I mean, they should have, what's if

1:11:50

they should have grabbed that pass on

1:11:52

it? Dalton, Kincaid. He's a good, tight

1:11:54

end to his keys, he got great

1:11:56

hands. Yeah. I mean, Josh Allen did

1:11:58

great to avoid that sack, by the

1:12:00

way. That blitz was amazing. And what

1:12:03

a ballsy call, too, at that point

1:12:05

in the game. Yeah, see, well, I

1:12:07

was thinking, and I'm pretty aggressive, but

1:12:09

it was fourth and five, they had

1:12:11

like their own 40 or whatever, I

1:12:13

was like, why wouldn't you punt this?

1:12:15

I was like their own 40 or

1:12:17

whatever, I was like, why wouldn't you

1:12:19

punt this? I was like their own

1:12:21

40 or whatever, I was like, why,

1:12:23

why wouldn't you're on 40 or whatever,

1:12:25

I was like, I was like, I

1:12:27

was like, I was like, they're on

1:12:29

40 or whatever, I was like, I

1:12:31

was like, I was like, I'm, like,

1:12:33

like, like, like, like, like, I'm, like,

1:12:35

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:12:37

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:12:39

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:12:41

like, I mean, Philadelphia's really good, but

1:12:43

I thought Buffalo was the best team.

1:12:45

But I think Patrick Mahomes is just

1:12:47

fucking different. And I know people say

1:12:49

the Chiefs get calls and blah blah

1:12:51

blah. And maybe they do, I don't

1:12:53

know. That's also kind of how every

1:12:55

great athlete does though, right? The Kobe

1:12:57

got calls, LeBron got calls, Jordan got

1:12:59

calls, Tom Brady got calls in football.

1:13:01

This is just what it is. It's

1:13:03

also easier to make calls for the

1:13:05

most dominant team. Yeah, I think you

1:13:07

just give them the benefit of the

1:13:09

doubt. And they're just more glaring. When

1:13:11

you constantly are winning, you see all

1:13:13

the calls that benefit the team. Yeah,

1:13:15

I think you just give them the

1:13:17

benefit of the doubt. And they're just

1:13:19

more glaring. When you constantly are winning,

1:13:21

the more games you play, the more

1:13:23

games you play. really fucking good. I

1:13:25

would hate to see them when the

1:13:28

Super Bowl. I think it's very possible.

1:13:30

I just refused to be happy for

1:13:32

her because she's from Philly. And she

1:13:34

was just like, why can't you be

1:13:36

happy for me? And I was like,

1:13:38

they're just terrible people. And you're one

1:13:40

of them. And that's just what it

1:13:42

is. These are good fights. I apologize

1:13:44

later. I didn't mean the apology, but

1:13:46

I did apologize. I lied. But they're

1:13:48

really fucking good. I would hate to

1:13:50

see them when the Super Bowl But

1:13:52

I'm wrong a lot. So I hope

1:13:54

I'm actually right. Isn't that your team?

1:13:56

Isn't the chief's team? Isn't the chief's

1:13:58

team in that your bandwagon too? I

1:14:00

found myself rooting for the bills. I found

1:14:02

myself rooting for the bills because I would

1:14:04

like to see Buffalo get a Super Bowl.

1:14:07

You just like torture. You like, you're a

1:14:09

masochist. The chiefs, if they win, I'm gonna

1:14:11

be fucking thrilled and I will probably buy

1:14:13

a Patrick Mahome's jersey because he's beaten. There's

1:14:15

only two teams left that I truly fucking

1:14:18

hate. I love that you're like, I'm sick

1:14:20

of my team not winning anymore. You know

1:14:22

who I'm gonna root for? The Buffalo Bills.

1:14:24

No, all I have left is, what do

1:14:27

they call it, Shodden fraud or what are

1:14:29

I? Shodden fraud. Other people's misery that I

1:14:31

don't like, that's two teams that I fucking

1:14:33

hate left, the Niners and the Eagles. If

1:14:35

Patrick Miller Holmes beats both of them

1:14:37

in the Super Bowl twice, I'm buying

1:14:39

a jersey, I'll pay for his fucking

1:14:41

Disney World trip, I don't care, whatever

1:14:43

you need, I will worship this man. I will love this man forever. Okay,

1:14:46

so you're going chiefs. Yeah, well, yeah, I think I'm going Chiefs and I'm

1:14:48

really rooting for them and I might have to watch the game in Philly

1:14:50

because my wife is going to be there. And if I got to be

1:14:52

around this fucking, that whole city, just a fucking, it's, it's, I've got one

1:14:54

or one or one or one, one, one, a Super Bowl. I mean, it's

1:14:56

just going to be unbelievable. You are crazy. It's going to be unbelievable. I

1:14:58

mean, if they lose, what a, what a sight that would be. Just a

1:15:00

bunch of fucking funny. You know you know you know you know you know

1:15:02

you know you. You know you. You know you know you know you. You

1:15:04

know you have. You know you have shows and you have shows and you

1:15:06

have shows in. You know you have shows in. You know you have shows

1:15:08

in Philly. You know you have shows in Philly. You know you have shows

1:15:10

in Philly. You know you have shows in Philly. You know you have shows

1:15:12

in Philly. You know you have Oh, is that, oh, I'm sorry,

1:15:14

is that crazy for a comic to

1:15:16

antagonize Philly? Who would do such a

1:15:18

thing? It's probably how he got into

1:15:21

arenas, because everybody's like, oh, this guy

1:15:23

hates Philly? So do we. Let's fucking,

1:15:25

if I take us to a show.

1:15:27

Wait, are you going to watch it

1:15:29

in Philly? And if I wanted to watch

1:15:31

a Super Bowl in Dallas, I'd make her

1:15:34

go. That's never going to happen,

1:15:36

but you know. So, you know, that's

1:15:38

going to be a nightmare. So please,

1:15:40

just beat the shit out of them.

1:15:43

Don't make it close like you always

1:15:45

do. Beat the dog shit out of

1:15:47

them. I would love that. Patrick Mahomes.

1:15:50

Please. You're going to riot either way.

1:15:52

I already know. Riot. I'm not

1:15:54

capable of breaking anything. My ass

1:15:56

was going to start flaring up.

1:15:58

It's too much. Guys, if you're

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1:16:13

back to the show. General, a summary

1:16:15

of my worldview is bureaucracy is bad,

1:16:17

all those equal. Do you think you're

1:16:20

radical? In the

1:16:22

sense that America's radical, sure. I mean,

1:16:24

America is a radical idea. You were,

1:16:26

of course, of course. What I'm saying

1:16:28

is, like, do you think that your

1:16:30

viewpoint on what needs to be changed

1:16:32

is significantly greater, more radical, more extreme.

1:16:34

I know these words have like loaded

1:16:37

and I don't mean them to be

1:16:39

loaded. What I'm trying to say is

1:16:41

like, I think that what you're suggesting

1:16:43

is a massive change is a massive

1:16:45

change. Yeah. to set our country back

1:16:47

on the right track to remain. I

1:16:49

think we already are, but to remain

1:16:51

the greatest country known to the history

1:16:54

of man. I do believe that. And

1:16:56

I think that the American Revolution was

1:16:58

pretty radical, by the way, too. I

1:17:00

like America's birth. America's birth was radical,

1:17:02

right? The idea that we the people

1:17:04

get to self-governed, that was a crazy

1:17:06

idea. Right, the idea that your genetics

1:17:09

and your lineage don't matter, but the

1:17:11

best person ought to get the job,

1:17:13

that is a radical idea, or that

1:17:15

any opinion, no matter how heinous to

1:17:17

your, me it might seem, that any

1:17:19

opinion gets to be expressed publicly, freely,

1:17:21

that is a radical idea. I believe

1:17:23

all of those things. So, you know,

1:17:26

that might make me radical. I think

1:17:28

I'm fine with that. Because America is

1:17:30

a radical nation. I think it's very

1:17:32

digestible in the things you're saying, and

1:17:34

that you're using language that we're familiar

1:17:36

with, right, in tapping into our identities

1:17:38

of what we are as Americans. But

1:17:40

the change that you're suggesting, I think,

1:17:43

significantly shifts the course of the country.

1:17:45

And that is, you said this last

1:17:47

time you were probably like, what is

1:17:49

it, we should have the country. we

1:17:51

deserve or something like that. This was

1:17:53

Thomas Jefferson's idea. It's like for better.

1:17:55

The government we elect is the government

1:17:58

we deserve. Exactly. For better or for

1:18:00

worse, right? And I think that's a

1:18:02

very brave position to be in. I

1:18:04

think a lot of times when elected

1:18:06

officials win, they're forced to make certain

1:18:08

decisions and they reflect and they go,

1:18:10

you know what? They really ain't that

1:18:12

bad. Like, maybe we'll try to move

1:18:15

it 2% in this direction, 5% in

1:18:17

this direction, 7%. And so this is

1:18:19

why, man, this is actually really important

1:18:21

to me as I think about my

1:18:23

next step. I don't, just, we were

1:18:25

talking about this a little bit before,

1:18:27

I don't just want to win by

1:18:29

a little bit, and check the box

1:18:32

of being a governor or whatever. I

1:18:34

want to win by such a decisive

1:18:36

mandate. to be able to actually do

1:18:38

the hard things, right? If you want

1:18:40

to be an incremental changer in politics,

1:18:42

you could do that by temporarily sitting

1:18:44

in a seat with a narrow margin,

1:18:46

and then it's ping pong when somebody

1:18:49

else is in charge of the different

1:18:51

view, it kind of goes incrementally in

1:18:53

the other direction. But if you want

1:18:55

to revitalize... an actual state or a

1:18:57

country. You need a decisive mandate to

1:18:59

do it. And how do you get

1:19:01

that? Well, you have to tap into

1:19:04

cultural necessity. These people have to feel

1:19:06

that you can deliver the change that

1:19:08

they desperately need. Like what's happened, I

1:19:10

think, not throughout entire American history, but

1:19:12

when America is doing well. Yeah. When

1:19:14

poor people can feed themselves and pay

1:19:16

their rent. there's enough magic and distraction

1:19:18

in this country where they don't need

1:19:21

to rebel, right? And that's kind of

1:19:23

like the perfect spot for the really

1:19:25

wealthy, where they're like, okay, we can

1:19:27

get really wet rich and the poor

1:19:29

people aren't gonna love. There's no revolution,

1:19:31

exactly, right? There's no, that's like, that's

1:19:33

perfect, right? And then every once in

1:19:35

a while, you can see the desperation

1:19:38

of the poor because the Luigi Mangioni

1:19:40

walks behind the health care CEO blows

1:19:42

his head off, blows his head off,

1:19:44

and then the internet is like, and

1:19:46

then the internet is like, like, like,

1:19:48

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

1:19:50

And to me, the reaction was indicative

1:19:53

of people being desperate. A lot of

1:19:55

deep-seated frustration. Yes. Yeah. So how do

1:19:57

you tap into that desperation? And I'm

1:19:59

going to use this word sell loosely

1:20:01

and then and then sell them a

1:20:03

solution to that desperation that I think

1:20:05

this is kind of what happened when

1:20:07

we can get into like what happened

1:20:10

with with Trump but I think a

1:20:12

lot of people couch their support in

1:20:14

Trump with these like They're, uh, how

1:20:16

do I, how I phrase it, like,

1:20:18

they try to be noble in their

1:20:20

support, right? Especially on the coasts. They

1:20:22

go, yeah, I want to, I want

1:20:24

to stop foreign wars. Yeah. I really

1:20:27

care about the migration issue. They go,

1:20:29

right? Their kid comes home from school

1:20:31

and they're like, why am I, I'm

1:20:33

a girl, but I think I'm a

1:20:35

boy. And they're like, well, where are

1:20:37

the wars? there over there but we

1:20:39

gotta stop it. How can you tab

1:20:41

into what Americans are feeling even if

1:20:44

it's not what they're saying? Like when

1:20:46

I saw the reaction to Luigi Mangioni

1:20:48

I was like oh Americans are feeling

1:20:50

resentment and extreme hostility to the health

1:20:52

care sector sure I think to government

1:20:54

sure I think to what else would

1:20:56

you say? I think I think the

1:20:59

almost every major institution I would say

1:21:01

towards their manner of work the way

1:21:03

that they're actually taught to the idea

1:21:05

that you could get ahead through your

1:21:07

own hard work? Yeah, they're not feeling

1:21:09

like that's possible anymore. Through higher education?

1:21:11

Yeah. Through the debt you take on

1:21:13

through higher education? We're all living. We've

1:21:16

all been part of a generation where

1:21:18

people are taught that you go to

1:21:20

college for four years, you load up

1:21:22

yourself with debt, and somehow you get

1:21:24

a head start in the American dream

1:21:26

when it hasn't worked out that way.

1:21:28

I think the first way to do

1:21:30

this is a solution is to make

1:21:33

the failure. So this is good, admit

1:21:35

the failure. But this is really good.

1:21:37

Yeah, but this is really good. Yeah.

1:21:39

Admitting the failure is very important. Yeah.

1:21:41

And I think to, and to, to

1:21:43

Trump's credit, like, I think there's a

1:21:45

version of this, and I don't know

1:21:48

how much of this is marketing or

1:21:50

actual truth, but like admitting the failures

1:21:52

of your country. Like if there is

1:21:54

something that we, like the Gulf of

1:21:56

Tonkin. and we did, hey, we did

1:21:58

some foul shit, got us into a

1:22:00

war, a lot of people died, that's

1:22:02

bad. You have every right to have

1:22:05

a lack of like a faith and

1:22:07

trust in our government. We want to

1:22:09

reinstall that in the way we're still

1:22:11

in it is accountability. We don't gasolate

1:22:13

you and be like, yeah, you know

1:22:15

what you're talking about. We go, hey,

1:22:17

I did some goofy shit. Don't go,

1:22:19

oh, you guys are making a big

1:22:22

deal of nothing, because that's what Democrats

1:22:24

said for four years. Don't be the

1:22:26

exact version of the people that you

1:22:28

fought back against. I think that the

1:22:30

ability to honestly have the humility to

1:22:32

say here's where we screwed up. And

1:22:34

it's easy to point to the other

1:22:36

side screw-ups. Point to your own, it's

1:22:39

a lot harder, but point to our

1:22:41

own screw-ups. But then it's not just

1:22:43

admitting that failure or the failures where

1:22:45

we've gone wrong, but I believe the

1:22:47

right path. is not to just stop

1:22:49

there, because I think there's a risk

1:22:51

there. The risk that I see there

1:22:54

is that we fall into the trap

1:22:56

then of saying, have we all been

1:22:58

screwed over, you know, our judgment screw

1:23:00

over, yes, we have been screwed over,

1:23:02

yes. But if you stop there, then

1:23:04

it's like you fall back into the

1:23:06

trap. Exactly. Yes. Of thinking that my

1:23:08

fate is somebody else's fault, that my

1:23:11

plight is somebody else's responsibility. And that's

1:23:13

what we took accountability, which is honorable.

1:23:15

America's imperfect and we're not perfect we

1:23:17

did some horrible shit and then we

1:23:19

stopped at that there and that's not

1:23:21

it and we fucked up how are

1:23:23

we gonna make it better and I

1:23:25

don't want the American right to stop

1:23:28

there either which is to say that

1:23:30

there's well the American right is the

1:23:32

opposite it's we never did anything wrongs

1:23:34

yeah and that and that's a problem

1:23:36

it's a problem it's a problem it

1:23:38

has to be a problem it's kind

1:23:40

of a there's an problem it's an

1:23:43

problem it's an problem it's an problem

1:23:45

it's a problem it has to be

1:23:47

true to be true to be true

1:23:49

to be true to be true to

1:23:51

But don't stop there. We can't, your

1:23:53

fate, and I'll say this in ways

1:23:55

that speak to everybody at 360 degrees,

1:23:57

the number one factor that determines whether

1:24:00

you achieve your goals is not your

1:24:02

race, your religion, your gender, your sexuality,

1:24:04

the climate. weather or somebody else from

1:24:06

another country. What is it? Christ. It

1:24:08

is you. Well, I'm trying to win

1:24:10

you Ohio, right? I'm trying my hardest,

1:24:12

I'm really trying my hardest. I believe

1:24:14

that God lives in you, right? And

1:24:17

so, so those two, those two merge.

1:24:19

So do the priests. And in a

1:24:21

certain, in a certain, in a certain,

1:24:23

in a certain, it's like, it's like,

1:24:25

it's like a basketball, like, he gives

1:24:27

his own alley. It's like, it's like,

1:24:29

you don't need the guy. It does live

1:24:31

in you. does live in. And so, you know,

1:24:34

I mean, this is probably even a really deeper

1:24:36

discussion as I do think a revival of that

1:24:38

type of conviction in ourselves. Some of that involves

1:24:40

rival of faith and I don't think the government

1:24:43

should be in charge of doing this at all,

1:24:45

but I do think a revival of our self-confidence.

1:24:47

A revival of conviction in ourselves as individuals and

1:24:49

as a country. And even in states, like Ohio,

1:24:52

where people have fallen into the trap of believing,

1:24:54

you know, we're number 38 where people move in

1:24:56

and out, and out. restoring that pride

1:24:58

as an American, as an Ohioan, as a

1:25:00

citizen, as a member of a family, revival

1:25:02

of conviction in self. That's what Donald Trump

1:25:04

I think is doing at the level of

1:25:07

the nation. I mean people could debate about

1:25:09

Greenland or anything else, but the idea

1:25:11

of manifest destiny, the idea that we're

1:25:13

the pioneers and the explorers, that gives

1:25:15

us back some of that self-confidence, that

1:25:18

juice of conviction. That's the second step

1:25:20

we've got to take is once acknowledge

1:25:22

that there are a lot of factors

1:25:24

that have contributed that we're not... your

1:25:26

own individual level mistakes. Yeah. But if

1:25:29

we just pause there, you're taught to

1:25:31

see yourself as a victim, but to say

1:25:33

that no, we're committed. to actually overcoming those

1:25:35

barriers at a young age. So every four-year-old,

1:25:37

when he chooses a preschool or his parents

1:25:39

choose a preschool for him, is choosing the

1:25:41

best possible one. And if you can't afford

1:25:43

it, you have the money from shutting down

1:25:45

the bureaucracy that you save the money to

1:25:47

put in the pockets of those parents to

1:25:49

choose. But after that, you put it in

1:25:51

the pockets of those parents to choose. So,

1:25:53

but after that, your fate is in your

1:25:55

hands. And we believe in you because you

1:25:57

believe in you, that's what we need to

1:25:59

get back. listen to each other. But there

1:26:01

is a version where if you're more, I

1:26:04

don't even want to use the term centrist,

1:26:06

but there's a version where you go, hey,

1:26:08

I think it's honorable, I think it's noble

1:26:10

to recognize our failures. I also think that

1:26:13

what we're doing over here, which is

1:26:15

shining a light on our successes and what

1:26:17

we can do to improve the country, and

1:26:19

it doesn't matter which side. It's the combination

1:26:22

of both of those. It's acknowledging the failures

1:26:24

of the people be is that people

1:26:26

feel failed, right? They feel like the government

1:26:28

has failed them. They feel like these institutions

1:26:31

have failed. Because they have. Because they have.

1:26:33

Let's acknowledge it. And then going. We're not

1:26:35

going to stop there and let you just

1:26:37

complain and whine about all these institutions. That's

1:26:40

good. That's good. We are going to show

1:26:42

what's wrong with the institutions and we're

1:26:44

going to give suggestions that we think will

1:26:46

make it better and we believe in our

1:26:49

heart that will make it better and we

1:26:51

are going to try to make them better.

1:26:53

I like that because we expect more

1:26:55

of our politicians and our government, of course

1:26:57

we should, but we should also expect more

1:27:00

of ourselves in each other. And give them

1:27:02

something to hope for. Exactly. And the way

1:27:04

we expect more of our government is the

1:27:07

government, I believe, has actually been in the

1:27:09

way of your success. It has been a

1:27:11

chief obstacle, whether it's a small business

1:27:13

with respect to the regulatory state, whether it

1:27:15

is overspending on some parts of education without

1:27:18

actually allowing you to choose where you go,

1:27:20

housing burdens for new construction that raise new

1:27:22

costs. The government has been a burden.

1:27:24

Yeah. You deserve as a citizen of this

1:27:27

country to have that government out of your

1:27:29

way so you can achieve the maximum of

1:27:31

your own potential. But after that the rest

1:27:33

falls on us and that is a beautiful

1:27:36

thing because this is the country that does

1:27:38

not constrain you based on your lineage or

1:27:40

your genetics to achieve that. Both of

1:27:42

those have to be true because if you

1:27:45

just do the first without the second you're

1:27:47

back to victimhood culture. If you just do

1:27:49

the second you're back to victimhood culture. If

1:27:51

you just do the second without the

1:27:53

first, you're back to victimhood culture. If you

1:27:56

just do the second without the second, it's

1:27:58

not a strategy. It's true. It's true. I

1:28:00

think it's really relatable. I think it's really

1:28:03

relatable and to me relatable and to

1:28:05

me. I think it's really relatable and to

1:28:07

me. I think it's really relatable and to

1:28:09

me. Obviously I'm in maybe a different situation,

1:28:11

right? But I think to somebody who is

1:28:14

suffering, who feels like these institutions are not

1:28:16

backing them in the way that they... need

1:28:18

will then feel one validated in their feeling,

1:28:21

their frustration, but also feel like they

1:28:23

have some hope. Because I don't want you

1:28:25

to be like, hey, you're poor because it's

1:28:27

their fault, but good luck being poor. I

1:28:29

want people to be like, hey, listen, upward

1:28:32

mobility is difficult for you, and there

1:28:34

are these institutions that have restricted that, the

1:28:36

government being one of them. But we want

1:28:38

to fix these things so you can have

1:28:41

upward mobility. And if I'm somebody who needs

1:28:43

that, I'm going to go. Well, yeah, let's

1:28:45

try something because this shouldn't be one idea

1:28:47

I'm a fan of right in this in

1:28:50

this spirit and this because I was

1:28:52

gonna bring this up earlier, gay marriage, perfect

1:28:54

time, has nothing to do with this, good,

1:28:56

okay. We're gonna, we're, one day, we're, one

1:28:59

day, we're, one day, but we're, but we

1:29:01

can't, we can't, we can't, we can't,

1:29:03

we sign the contract, it's, yeah, it's good.

1:29:05

because it's like 16 years, you know, no,

1:29:07

nothing. And he's wearing the ring. That's actually

1:29:10

a fun experiment. Like this is two guys

1:29:12

that are married to women divorcing their wives,

1:29:14

making their wives marry each other. And then

1:29:17

we marry each other. And see who lasts

1:29:19

longer. Yeah, we'd be great. Yeah, we'd

1:29:21

be great. We'd be great. They'd be divorced

1:29:23

in two years. I think we'd be, we'd

1:29:25

be gay in Palm Springs at 90 years.

1:29:28

I think it would do well on Netflix.

1:29:30

I mean, I get the, nobody could

1:29:32

take that idea. right? Yeah, you can't do

1:29:34

that without me. So the... feedback will make

1:29:37

you gay. Go, go around. The, now you're

1:29:39

really killing me. Sorry, sorry, no, Ralph. Yeah,

1:29:41

it's a knockout noose. So we got, we

1:29:43

got, you know, that's, that's too easy. We'll

1:29:46

leave it up for somebody. He's, he's, he's,

1:29:48

he's, he's not, we, no, go, go,

1:29:50

go, go, go. But an idea earlier, in

1:29:52