0:04

This is Antik,

0:06

the Atari, 8,

0:09

and podcast.

0:11

This is antique,

0:14

the Atari 8-pit

0:16

This is Antik,

0:18

the Atari 8 -bit I'm I'm

0:20

K7s. Robert Moore

0:22

and Paul were two two of

0:24

the founders of Hybrid Arts, along

0:26

with Frank Foster and Alan

0:29

Hart. Hybrid Arts Hybrid Arts created

0:31

the hardware that hardware that added

0:33

musical instrument digital interface capability

0:35

to the Atari 8 -bit computers,

0:37

and various software for it,

0:39

including it, including Midi Track. Hybrid continued

0:41

on to make a wide variety

0:43

of MIDI and music software for

0:45

the Atari ST, the which had

0:47

built built in including EZ Easy Track. Paul

0:49

was the Paul was the programmer, Robert was

0:52

the and sales person, and and Frank Foster

0:54

was the marketing person. person. Frank couldn't

0:56

make it to this interview this to scheduling

0:58

issues, but he'll be in my next

1:00

interview. in my next This interview

1:02

took place on took place on 2024.

1:04

18th, 2024. A video A video version

1:06

of this interview is available on

1:09

YouTube and Internet Archive. a musical

1:11

family. and also around

1:13

around computers. around I've

1:15

been around a computer since My

1:17

My first computer program was an

1:19

IBM 1620 when I was like like years

1:21

old, so it was a few

1:23

years later. a few years later. But like IBM 1620s,

1:25

the the core memories are these

1:27

big big cores, they're big. big,

1:30

wires run through them and run through

1:32

them, and by the, the between three of

1:34

the wires. the wires, change the

1:36

the magnetism of the the cores. And

1:38

that generates generates a radio signal. you So

1:40

if you put a radio on

1:42

top of the computer. you

1:44

can can actually program a sequence

1:47

through the cores and make

1:49

electronic music. music. So was kind of

1:51

my first exposure or first

1:53

experience doing electronic music. And

1:56

then, doing electronic music.

1:58

And then like in high school. and

2:00

grade school, I recorded all

2:02

my friends, I did a

2:04

lot of music, I was

2:06

in little bands, that sort

2:08

of thing. So I was

2:10

always around tape recorders and

2:12

microphones, and when I ended

2:14

up finally, well, at Evergreen,

2:16

at Evergreen, I started designing

2:18

microcomputer systems to do electronic

2:20

music, and I sent you

2:22

a copy of that paper

2:24

that I published, which was

2:26

called a hybrid synthesizer, where

2:28

it was, I designed, four voices

2:30

four different synth parts. And

2:32

then I presented a paper,

2:34

Paul knows the timer, and

2:36

followed by an ADSR, which

2:38

I can control the, you know,

2:41

dynamics of the tone from

2:43

that. And I had an

2:45

Intel 4004 microcomputer that I

2:47

designed that controlled four voices,

2:49

four different synth parts. And then

2:51

I presented a paper at

2:53

AES, the audio engineering society

2:55

in LA. in May 76

2:58

on that system that I designed

3:00

and built. So that was kind

3:02

of like my first actually building

3:04

stuff and actually did build a

3:06

design a, I called it a

3:08

digital metronome when I was in

3:10

college, it has a little built

3:12

in, has speaker volume control, tempo

3:14

control, and a headphone jack. And

3:16

the idea was that. Little black

3:18

box in a project case, it's

3:20

got two knobs and an output.

3:22

Yeah. All right. Yeah, it was

3:24

all handmade and I actually used,

3:26

it was a tectonic scope. It

3:28

had a, I found what the,

3:30

the display material is called, but

3:32

it was a green's phosphor, and

3:34

when the computer, you'd write a

3:36

computer program and would write to

3:38

the screen and actually design the

3:40

circuit board for this guy using

3:42

that screen. So I photographed the

3:44

screen. And then I took the

3:46

photograph, the negative to a sensitive

3:48

PC board placed around top that

3:50

exposed it to light etched away

3:52

the background and left the traces

3:54

for the circuit board. And that's

3:56

what's inside. and it has, it

3:58

has my name on it and

4:00

the date and all that. Was

4:02

that, was that, was that the

4:04

state of the art way to

4:06

make a film for etching or

4:08

was that like crazy? Because it

4:10

seems nutty. That was just something

4:12

I did. I had never heard

4:15

about it before, but etching was

4:17

common, like doing, using some photographic

4:19

process, but not using a computer,

4:21

people that you draw, you draw,

4:23

you draw, you use rulers and

4:25

whatever else and draw. That's what

4:27

I've heard of it that done

4:29

that way, but not with putting

4:31

it up to a, yeah, I

4:33

did a circuit board as well

4:35

using the, not computer graphics, but

4:37

just like, yeah, drawn and that's

4:39

how they did it back then

4:41

single sided. Yeah, and then Evergreen

4:43

ended up buying a couple of

4:45

my digital metronomes. So that was

4:47

my first out. People will buy

4:49

this stuff, you know. And, uh,

4:51

But anyway, Frank Foster, I met

4:53

Frank Foster there, because I was

4:55

actually there as kind of had

4:57

three majors of music technology and

4:59

film. And I actually was first

5:01

hired by that I was working

5:03

at Boeing's before that as an

5:05

engineer aid and writing programs and

5:07

for trying to do computer modeling.

5:09

And I came over that too.

5:11

They actually didn't have computer modeling

5:13

when I was there, but I

5:15

wrote these programs and engineers said,

5:17

hey. Wait a second. Can you

5:19

do this? And so I started

5:21

writing the Fort Tram programs to

5:23

do computer models of tail section

5:25

for boring 7X7, which is the

5:27

767. And so it came down

5:29

to Evergreen. I was going to

5:31

go to Universal Washington. I came

5:33

to Evergreen. My brother said, yeah,

5:35

go check out Evergreen. It's great

5:37

recording studio at Evergreen State College.

5:40

And I also went over and

5:42

visited with the Computer Science and

5:44

Department and they hired me. They

5:46

said, hey, why don't you just

5:48

come work for us? So I

5:50

didn't go to University of Washington.

5:52

I ended up going to Evergreen.

5:54

And what I, they invited me

5:56

to become a student there as

5:58

well to make a film about

6:00

the computer, like a documentary about

6:02

the computer science department. And that.

6:04

how I met Frank was, I

6:06

was involved in film projects there,

6:08

Frank was doing a computer film

6:10

festival at the college, and that

6:12

I designed my microcomputer system, controlled

6:14

four voices, later I controlled lasers

6:16

for Frank with that same system,

6:18

and I also red devil hired

6:20

me to contract with your designer

6:22

automation system to do automated fireworks.

6:25

And then I came down to

6:27

LA, started working in recording studios,

6:29

lots of big projects. I mean,

6:31

I worked in some of the

6:33

best recording studios in LA, Cherokee,

6:35

Camden Village on projects as an

6:37

technician and an engineer and some

6:40

production, but projects that were included

6:42

Michael Jackson, Duran, Duran, Chief Trick,

6:44

Devo, Rod Stewart. And the last

6:46

project, the last studio I worked

6:48

at was at Motown. And I

6:50

would spend time at Barry Gordius

6:52

House. He had a Cromo Polaris,

6:54

a Rhodes Cromo Polaris, which is

6:56

at the time wasn't called a

6:58

Rhodes, which is called a Cromo

7:00

Polaris. And it was connected to

7:02

an Apple II computer through this

7:05

big giant, you know, you know,

7:07

PC board. And I'm thinking, there's

7:09

got to be a better way

7:11

to do this. And, but my

7:13

goal since Evergreen, well, even before

7:15

Evergreen, was to use computers to

7:17

do music. I always wanted to

7:19

replace tape machines machines with computers

7:21

with computers. Because, I mean, my

7:23

experience with tape is like, you

7:25

know, rewind fast forward, you know,

7:28

locate, you know, now I got

7:30

to edit this, you cut the

7:32

tape or whatever you do, you

7:34

know, overdubs and all that. I

7:36

just wanted to replace that whole

7:38

process. And so, at Motown, is

7:40

when I actually started developing the

7:42

idea and I told Paul about

7:44

it and Paul goes, I mean,

7:46

Paul's enough to. you know, refresh

7:48

my memory, but Paul became in

7:51

our scene, became the first program.

7:53

Let me get my background before

7:55

you start talking about me. Let

7:57

me go on. Let me just

7:59

finish up. So anyway, so I

8:01

met. at Evergreen, and then Frank

8:03

and Paul and I ended up

8:05

at Abel Films. And then Alan

8:07

Hart was a friend of mine.

8:09

I don't know if you know

8:11

the name Alan Hart, but Alan

8:14

Hart was the first investor. He

8:16

was the financial, he and I

8:18

worked together at Cherokee recording studios.

8:20

So I'd known Alan for a

8:22

while, and he just had been

8:24

paid overtime, like 20,000 bucks. And

8:26

that's how we started hybrid artists

8:28

with, with Alan Hart. And so

8:30

the four of us became equal

8:32

partners in the startup of that

8:34

company. Anyway, off to you, Paul.

8:36

Well, I had a similar background

8:39

to Bob's. I didn't not grow

8:41

up in a musical family, but

8:43

I grew up, you know, phone

8:45

freaking and, you know, tape recorders

8:47

and phones, and then I went

8:49

to Perryham in college, which is

8:51

in Bellingham, which isn't too far

8:53

away from Evergreen. And I started,

8:55

I, enough

9:01

time to do computer graphics.

9:03

It was all printouts and

9:05

equations. So at Fairhaven, I

9:07

found a computer and did

9:09

a, did a, I did

9:11

two films. I did one

9:13

that was on Palcomt plotters

9:15

and then another one using

9:17

Textonics storage tube, a siloscope.

9:19

That was a two minute

9:21

movie and. So

9:23

I ended up doing a

9:25

travel study and found Bob

9:28

Abel films in Los Angeles

9:30

and got a job there,

9:32

which was pretty amazing. So

9:34

I moved from Bellingham down

9:37

to Los Angeles. I've been

9:39

here ever since. It wasn't

9:41

long before I met Bob

9:43

and Frank. And then as

9:46

I mentioned earlier, there's another

9:48

guy Richard that was part

9:50

of our little click of

9:52

poor guys. We all had

9:55

Atari 800. So, and I

9:57

think Frank, I'm not sure

9:59

that sequence of

10:01

events. I ended up working

10:04

for this laser company with

10:06

Frank. It was all eight

10:08

bit technology using Z80s and

10:11

I was working with another

10:13

company called Homer and Associates,

10:16

which is again all Z80s

10:18

and CPM and a lot

10:20

of electronics. So I learned

10:23

electronics and you know, how

10:25

chips, it always seemed weird.

10:32

learn how to do it,

10:34

it's actually pretty easy. So,

10:36

so I learned all that

10:39

and with the laser, we

10:41

did laser graphics, laser media

10:43

became a premier laser company

10:45

in the field doing things

10:47

with, I don't know, ELL

10:50

and you name it, they

10:52

did it. But so, Bob

10:54

and I hung out. And

10:57

he came to me with this

10:59

idea. And at the time, it

11:02

was right when Roland, was it

11:04

Roland, that came up with a

11:06

mini standard? And profit. There's sequential

11:09

circuits. There's actual circuits. It was

11:11

actually sequential circuits and Hila Packard.

11:13

Like two engineers there were really

11:16

into music and wanted to bring

11:18

this technology to the world. And

11:21

so that they came up with

11:23

a mini standard and Bob goes,

11:25

hey, Paul. think you can make

11:28

this work and so yeah so

11:30

that's how it started with me

11:33

and Bob and I came I

11:35

we had a I remember a

11:37

card that went into one of

11:40

the cartridges And it

11:42

had a you art on it, and

11:44

then we're able to get the you

11:46

art to translate the signals using optical

11:49

isolators to media. And I think we

11:51

made something work. I don't know how

11:53

far we went with that. But that

11:55

was the time. and

12:00

read the technical info on the

12:02

computer. And so I was doing

12:04

that. And that's how we came

12:06

up with a mini mate, let's

12:08

see. So any- You use the

12:10

Atari because that's what you all

12:12

had? Yeah, we all had the

12:14

four of us all had Atari.

12:17

Actually, to kind of go a

12:19

little step before that, my experience

12:21

was with an Apple, Apple computers.

12:23

And my plan was to do

12:25

the media to using an Apple

12:27

computer because that was what I

12:29

was working with that for Barry

12:31

Gordia his house with the Cromo

12:33

player so that's kind of what

12:35

I was looking at Paul was

12:37

the one that said no let's

12:39

do Atari because it's a much

12:41

better computer I'm going okay so

12:44

I don't know about that but

12:46

we I'm not sure why we

12:48

settled I did not have an

12:50

Atari computer I know but We

12:52

went to Atari to play games

12:54

on it. I'm not sure why

12:56

we did that, whether it was

12:58

the superior game computer or not,

13:00

but we all, the four of

13:02

us all had Atari 800s. And

13:04

so that's how that came about.

13:06

because we played games on it

13:09

and it wasn't really set up

13:11

for music. And so, so yeah,

13:13

I said we did the card

13:15

that fit in the slot, but

13:17

that seemed kind of complicated. And

13:19

then we figured out we could,

13:21

we could get the signals and

13:23

get everything we needed from the.

13:32

thing that goes on the side

13:34

of the Atari, the CSIO, the

13:36

serial input output. Yeah. Yeah. And

13:39

we're able to make that work.

13:41

And once we're able to make

13:43

that work, we made the mini

13:46

mate, which I have a prototype.

13:48

Let's see if this all read.

13:50

And it's a little dim. But

13:53

this is one of the original

13:55

ones that Bob made. I probably

13:57

specified it and Bob made it.

14:00

And yeah. you specked it and

14:02

I built it. And so that's

14:04

how that came about. You hold

14:07

it up one more time? I

14:09

want to see the side with

14:11

the plugs on it. It's trying

14:13

to get a screen shot here.

14:16

So this is, that's one of

14:18

the first handmade ones. That's like

14:20

the prototype. Yeah. Let's see. Hire

14:25

up, please. I'm having a hard

14:27

time. I know, it's all reversed.

14:29

Nice. Can you read that? No,

14:32

not really. What's it saying? Mete

14:34

mate. This is hybrid arts meaty

14:36

mate, and it's a meaty and

14:38

sink on it. Nice. Anyway, nice.

14:40

So I still have it. I

14:42

collect. Here's mine, which is not

14:44

a prototype. Yeah, no, that's you

14:46

got the right connect around the

14:48

end. This is some kind of

14:50

your just yours is nine. Okay,

14:53

yours is plastic, right? Yeah, yeah.

14:55

So, so, so, so the metal,

14:57

the original, this is metal, yeah,

14:59

this is, the metal ones, I

15:01

handmade these in the first 200

15:03

with Alan Hart, like I had

15:05

to go all over town all

15:07

over on Los Angeles areas, like

15:09

all over the, all over the,

15:11

all over the county. I found

15:14

one place that would punch the

15:16

holes for me, another place that

15:18

would paint the box for me,

15:20

and then I ordered all of

15:22

the parks from another place, all

15:24

these. them I conduct, I mean,

15:26

all the, you know, whatever, the

15:28

capacitors, resistors, all the parts from

15:30

another place. And then I went

15:32

to another place and I designed

15:35

the circuit board, brought it to

15:37

another place, they made the circuit

15:39

board, they made the circuit board,

15:41

they printed it, they, you know,

15:43

punched out the circuit board for

15:45

me, and then I took all

15:47

of that, you know, the circuit

15:49

board and the parts to another

15:51

place that they did wave solder

15:54

for those two, first 200 units.

15:56

Wow. metal ones are all handmade

15:58

by Alan Hart and myself. And

16:00

then after that, when we sold

16:02

those, we had enough money to

16:04

go, you know, have them, you

16:06

know, mass produced. Eventually we went

16:08

to China because we just, there

16:10

were just too many needs. We

16:12

had too many, yeah. So once

16:15

we had the box together, this

16:17

was kind of driven on a

16:19

need. I guess Bob was thinking,

16:21

company. first

16:25

thing was the sequencer called

16:28

mini track two. And that

16:30

was written in fourth and

16:32

we're able to have sink.

16:34

I already done a crude

16:36

form of of time code

16:39

for the laser people. So

16:41

it's basically I think the

16:43

same basic setup using the

16:45

I think it's called the

16:47

cans. So

16:51

you record, just record a

16:54

sequence of 16 bit numbers

16:56

and then you sink it

16:58

up and anyway it worked

17:00

out really good. But that

17:03

was all programmed and forth

17:05

and I did whatever I

17:07

could to keep it fast

17:09

and. addition and

17:12

yeah Paul Paul was the

17:14

one that decided to do

17:16

fourth I don't all remembers

17:18

but I I wrote the

17:20

the the gen edit 600

17:22

version of gen edit and

17:24

that like the very for

17:26

our very first brochure I

17:28

had Frank come down to

17:31

Motown and photographed. I

17:33

had meaty track on one screen the

17:35

Paul version like our very first brochure

17:37

had meaty track not meaty track to

17:39

but meaty track and gen edit 600

17:41

and meaty track was the version that

17:43

Paul had written and Paul wasn't when

17:45

I said let's write this in fourth

17:48

and so I learned fourth programming language

17:50

and I wrote the gen edit 600

17:52

so that in that Motown that first

17:54

brochure which I think I sent you

17:56

a copy of that if you look

17:58

at that in the back like

18:01

an Ampex 8 ATR 124 like

18:03

a $150,000 multi-track and in the

18:05

foreground you see a turns out

18:07

to be a Yamaha DX7 the

18:09

meeting mates an Atari 800 Excel

18:11

and then above that there's Media

18:14

Track is on one screen and

18:16

on the other screen you don't

18:18

really see the other computer because

18:20

they can't both display at the

18:22

same time. On the other screen

18:24

a smaller TV monitor you can

18:26

see all the knobs and switches

18:28

of a profit 600 on that

18:31

small screen and that's the program

18:33

that I wrote. And there were

18:35

two kind of like breakthroughs on

18:37

that product that I design. One

18:39

is that's on a raster monitor.

18:41

That's not on a graphics monitor.

18:43

And how I got graphics was

18:45

I actually designed a custom set

18:48

of fonts. Four fonts, four characters

18:50

made up a knob or a

18:52

switch. And I also, the other

18:54

thing that I did, like that,

18:56

this product never came to market

18:58

because I just got too busy

19:00

with other things to actually finish

19:02

it. The other thing that I

19:05

did too though, and I still

19:07

have the prototype is I used

19:09

a light pen to program the

19:11

synthesizer. So you would touch the

19:13

light pen to the light pen

19:15

to the screen. So that first

19:17

photograph was photo at Motown. That

19:19

was, I was still working at

19:22

Motown and I just, that's pretty

19:24

much the last day at Motown.

19:26

Wow. So, yeah, and I did

19:28

another product, what was called for

19:30

the DX7 for a library program.

19:32

That was pretty simple in comparison.

19:34

But just so you know what

19:36

four I don't know how much

19:39

you know about fourth your listeners

19:41

know about fourth. I think I

19:43

could say me and my listeners

19:45

know a little bit about it

19:47

but you can go. I was

19:49

admitted by this guy Charles Moore

19:51

who had the pleasure of working

19:54

with and I learned directly from

19:56

him. It's very good on small

19:58

machines. It's very good at multitasking

20:00

and it's very good. debugging and

20:02

it works like a like a

20:04

like a helipacker calculate reverse Polish

20:06

notation and with the stacks and

20:08

all that. So it's very comfortable

20:11

with it and that's why I

20:13

used it. I'm not a fan

20:15

of basic. In fact, I'm kind

20:17

of the opposite of a fan.

20:19

I avoid basic. It's just teaches

20:21

all the wrong things. And I

20:23

know there's a lot of people

20:25

out there that used it. for

20:28

gaming because that's what they had

20:30

and so the power to them.

20:32

So that is a lot of

20:34

my my story with hybrid arts

20:36

is how how did you get

20:38

it going? How did you sell

20:40

those those first 200 magazine ads

20:42

or were just word about that

20:45

point or? Well, at that point,

20:47

yeah, at the beginning was that

20:49

at all the music stores, I

20:51

walked around to all the music

20:53

stores in LA and then also

20:55

visited music stores in New York

20:57

and in Texas, Chicago, and then

20:59

made a lot of phone calls.

21:02

I actually at one point carried

21:04

the whole product. Once we

21:06

first sold 200, I carried the whole

21:08

system. I flew to New York and

21:10

had a meeting. I can't remember if

21:12

it was Roland, I think it was

21:15

with Roland in New York, like I

21:17

was on the 26th floor of this

21:19

office building in New York City. And

21:21

I actually before that, I went down

21:23

to some local computer store and bought

21:25

an Atari at 800. And I carried

21:27

that whole system up to Roland. and

21:30

try to convince them to license the

21:32

product from us. So, you know, just

21:34

basically buy out the license of the

21:36

product so that we make a bunch

21:38

of money really quick and that we

21:40

could like reinvest into some, you know,

21:42

some more advanced products. And they said

21:45

they liked the idea that this was

21:47

really great, but it's kind of like,

21:49

they didn't quite understand what we were

21:51

doing and quite how they would use

21:53

it and they were just too committed

21:55

to their keyboards at that point. We

21:57

did do brochures, French shows too, right?

22:00

Right, yeah, yeah. And we were at

22:02

AES, I remember that. Well, actually, the

22:05

very first show, I mean, I've kind

22:07

of looked online on see what people

22:09

report about one of the first time

22:11

as meaty was shown and people say

22:14

meaty was first shown at Nam in

22:16

like 86, but it wasn't. I first

22:18

demonstrated meaty, I mean, I first called,

22:21

when I was first doing all this,

22:23

I was talking to secretional circuits about

22:25

their profit 600. and their midi. And

22:27

on that guy, I can't remember what

22:30

his name was, but that guy who

22:32

was who was heading up that project

22:34

asked me to call Hila Packard, the

22:36

engineer at Hila Packard. So I spoke

22:39

to the guy at Hila Packard, and

22:41

they both said, hey, can you can

22:43

you fly up and demonstrate your product

22:45

to us? This is in May 1983.

22:48

This is, I mean, I just bought

22:50

the profits of a few months before,

22:52

and Paul and I had just, you

22:55

know, the start of this, this system

22:57

working. And so I first demonstrated, and

22:59

how I know all of this, how

23:01

I remember me 83, that's why I

23:04

first met my wife too high on

23:06

Mary too. But she was my travel

23:08

agent. She actually like was the M

23:11

G, the music, you know, midi

23:13

user group was the first midi

23:15

user group that was founded by

23:17

Hila Packer, the guy engineered Hila

23:20

Packer in the engineer at sequential

23:22

circuits. And the May 83 was

23:24

their first, the first midi user

23:26

group meeting. And they wanted me

23:28

to showcase this product that, because

23:30

nobody had done this yet. Like,

23:32

Paula and I were the first

23:34

to have media working on a

23:37

personal computer and, you know, music

23:39

synthesizing, you know, perhaps 600. And

23:41

so I demonstrated in May 83

23:43

and then later in October 83,

23:45

I was asked to demonstrate again

23:47

at the Joe Goodman music, I

23:49

forgot what the show was called.

23:52

I just spoke to Joe a

23:54

few like a week ago and

23:56

I can't remember what the name

23:58

of the event was called, but

24:00

was it Joe Goodman? a, he

24:02

had a musician called Goodman Music

24:04

and sent in a studio city

24:07

somewhere in that neighborhood. And he

24:09

would every year hold this event.

24:11

It's like the music professionals, you

24:13

know. Yeah, that's the one show.

24:15

Yeah. And so I demonstrated there

24:17

and that was a, that was

24:19

crazy. We actually had a more,

24:21

like a better working, you know,

24:24

the you know, we had like

24:26

a working product, you know, I

24:28

mean, it's actually, you could use

24:30

it. That's where the Pointer Center's

24:32

sister's founders. Well, also, yeah,

24:34

the first guy was Ray Parker, Jr. And

24:36

this crazy, this crazy, wild guy comes in

24:39

and he goes, hey, man, I just heard

24:41

about your product. I want, I really want

24:43

to buy one. I'm going to buy this

24:45

one. It's just a prototype. It wasn't really,

24:47

you know, ready for market. You know, but,

24:49

but I sold it to him and he

24:51

said, yeah, I've got this movie, ghostbusters. I'm

24:53

doing the soundtrack for it. I want to

24:56

use to use it to do do do

24:58

do do do do do that. And then

25:00

another time another crazy experience with celebrity musicians

25:02

was I you know this is we're still

25:04

just this is like October November we're still

25:06

just kind of you know working on this

25:08

product and I hear there's like this knock

25:10

on my door and it's Michael Pinder from

25:13

Moody Blues and it goes in all just

25:15

heard about your product I'd like to use

25:17

it or what I was like what just

25:19

you know like Moody Blues and all these

25:21

characters are like showing up and. And we

25:23

had a huge roster of like really great

25:25

people. Because we were first and it worked

25:27

really good. Yeah, it worked

25:30

great. Actually, one of the advantages,

25:32

even later, like one of the

25:34

great advantages was the sample rate

25:36

for the, for the Midi, the

25:38

Midi notes of the Midi sequence

25:40

itself, is much higher rate than

25:42

everyone else. And that's why musicians

25:44

loved Midi Track, because the reproduction

25:47

of the, of the keyboard playing

25:49

and drums and whatever else was

25:51

really accurate to what they were

25:53

playing, whereas other sequences. They were

25:55

some like a 16 16 per

25:57

note or you know 16 per

25:59

frame. and we were

26:02

like 192 or I can't remember

26:04

what we were, just some crazy,

26:06

you know, high rate of testing

26:09

that it just reproduced their performance

26:11

the way they wanted it, you

26:13

know. Yeah. It

26:15

as an Atari person it warms

26:18

the cockles of my heart to

26:20

know that Atari 800s were for

26:22

a minute in the studios of

26:25

all these famous musicians, you know,

26:27

putting their problems. Yeah, I personally

26:29

handed systems to John Anderson with

26:32

yes. Todd Rungren. Yeah, I don't

26:34

know if you know, Todd Rungren,

26:36

the drummer, what's the drummer for

26:39

police? What's his name? I forgot

26:41

his name. Copeland. Copeland. So

26:43

I mean, these guys would call me and

26:45

I'd make a deal with Atari, Atari provide

26:48

the computer and I would just, you know,

26:50

walk, you know, go to their house and

26:52

show them how to use the product. So

26:54

all those guys were, you know, all those

26:56

people are using it. This is the Atari

26:59

8th bit. Yeah, I mean, because yes, everyone

27:01

knows the ST and Midi and it was

27:03

a huge thing for that, but I mean,

27:05

we're still talking eight bit days at this

27:07

point. Yeah, we're talking. Yeah, so I remember

27:10

doing the manual for Midi too on Mac,

27:12

back from the Mac, you had a copy

27:14

drive and you're like swap the disc all

27:16

the time and I still have a copy

27:18

of that manual somewhere. I didn't bring it

27:20

up for the for this, but Thanks.

27:24

Okay, so it's early days, you're,

27:26

you're, you're, you're selling early units

27:29

to famous musicians and, and, and

27:31

that sort of thing, you sell,

27:33

sell your first 200, and then

27:35

what happened next? Where did, where

27:38

did we go from there? Well,

27:40

it just, well, the product became

27:42

really popular. I mean, you know,

27:45

as far as, as far as

27:47

eight, but, I mean, there's an,

27:49

in 86, we started developing for,

27:52

um you know the Atari ST

27:54

16 bit so 8 bit survive

27:56

basically I mean even though it's

27:59

16 was being sold while we

28:01

were still selling the section bit

28:03

systems. It was really only from

28:06

you know, 84 to 86 about

28:08

two years. Yes, T came out

28:10

and that was clearly the superior

28:12

machine for as far as music.

28:15

Right. Yeah, Bob, can I interject?

28:17

I started dropped out at this

28:19

point. I was a company owner,

28:22

but I stopped writing software. I

28:24

went on to do other other

28:26

things. I don't know. 86 is

28:29

when I did that Pink Floyd

28:31

tour. and other things. So, but

28:33

we had other guys that had

28:36

Stefan come in and he took

28:38

my place and he continued the

28:40

tradition and then he ended up

28:42

writing for the ST. So up

28:45

to this point, it sounds like

28:47

Paul, you were the software guy,

28:49

Robert, you were the music guy

28:52

and maybe sales. What was what

28:54

was. Frank took photographs and the

28:56

like. Frank was marketing. Like I

28:59

wanted to put together a company

29:01

with, you know, with like really

29:03

talented people, you know, and so,

29:06

you know, Paul Rother, well, Alan

29:08

Hart and I were first, Paul

29:10

Rother joined in, you know, once

29:13

I had financing, and then I

29:15

spoke to actually, our friend Richard

29:17

Share, because he was great at

29:19

sales, and I knew the most,

29:22

probably the most important job at

29:24

our company, like, you know, because

29:26

I knew we were going to

29:29

develop a great product. The next

29:31

most important thing was sales and

29:33

marketing. And so I actually spoke

29:36

to Richard Cher, who was a

29:38

great salesperson, but he kind of,

29:40

he kind of, he was interested,

29:43

but he decided against it. And

29:45

then that's when, you know, invited

29:47

Frank and Frank did the marketing

29:49

and he produced the, you know,

29:52

photograph, the, you know, ad campaign

29:54

and. you know, over

29:56

did all the manuals and and

29:58

uh, you know, You know, we

30:01

all together while he and I

30:03

together would produce trade show, I

30:05

think it's a damn show in

30:07

86, I flew to music messa

30:09

and demonstrated, you know, our ST

30:12

products there. And, but up to

30:14

that point, it was Paul, Ellen

30:16

Hart, myself and Frank. That was

30:18

the company in the beginning. And

30:21

then, yeah, like Paul said, Stephen

30:23

Daystrom, like Paul got too busy

30:25

with his other projects and Stephen

30:27

Daystrom. I don't know how Paul

30:29

knew Stephen Daystrom, but what he

30:32

was talking in, right? Sure, laser

30:34

media. And we had that office

30:36

on Olympic Boulevard are just off

30:38

right. Yeah. Mississippi. Yeah. And laser

30:40

media was right across the street.

30:43

We're frank and I both spent

30:45

a lot of time. Yeah. It

30:48

was kind of incestuous or all

30:50

these different companies. It was an

30:52

exciting time to be in LA.

30:54

There was all this computer graphics

30:56

going on, the lasers, the music.

30:58

I was interested in all of

31:00

it. I don't

31:02

have so many hours in a day.

31:05

Yeah, definitely an exciting time. One of

31:07

you guys, and it might have been

31:09

frank, in the last few weeks when

31:12

we were kind of pre-talking, told me

31:14

that you guys, you hybrid arts, convinced

31:16

Atari to put Midi into the Atari

31:19

ST at all? Is that right? I

31:21

actually did have a meeting with Leonard

31:23

Chameel at Atari. to talk about that.

31:26

Leonard was actually interested in licensing our

31:28

technology. you know, the hybrid arts technology

31:30

to add meaty to their new computer.

31:33

You couldn't really tell me what that

31:35

new computer was just yet, was the

31:37

entire, yes, too, of course. And, uh,

31:39

but, you know, after, after he realized

31:42

how simple it is, I mean, the

31:44

interface is really simple. It's, it's an

31:46

opto isolator and in our case, or

31:49

you are, in their case, it's just

31:51

an opto isolator. That's what made it

31:53

so simple. Well, for, I mean, I

31:56

mean, original our product our meaty meat

31:58

had a you art in it no

32:00

no no no no we're using that

32:03

we're using okay so but originally we

32:05

did oh so the you art was

32:07

with it with the parallel the cartridge

32:10

that was our first go and right

32:12

yeah and it was way that's right

32:14

so the so the circuit board in

32:17

this guy only has a couple couple

32:19

components right And that's anyway, sorry to

32:21

correct you've been interrupted. No, no, that's

32:23

fine. As Bob was saying, it was

32:26

really simple. It's really simple to do

32:28

mini. You just need an opto isolator

32:30

and the frequencies 32. So Trumel decided

32:33

he didn't need you. He could just

32:35

do it. They could just do it

32:37

on their own. Well, you know, I

32:40

never heard that. Next thing I know

32:42

there's a meeting on this new computer.

32:44

But you know it was it was

32:47

good because we actually I mean hybrid

32:49

arts actually just my opinion hybrid arts

32:51

kept Atari computers alive for its last

32:54

two years. They were they were dying

32:56

a quick death but musicians loved hybrid

32:58

arts products with the Atari computer. It

33:01

was. the hybrid arts products were unmatched

33:03

in the industry, like just because of

33:05

the accuracy and just the quality and

33:07

I mean it was rock solid all

33:10

of our products are rock solid there

33:12

was never glitches or you know hey

33:14

how comes to play that and you

33:17

know correcting your performance by quantize you

33:19

know there were lots of features within

33:21

our product that competition couldn't quite do

33:24

as well as us. Why did you

33:26

do it better? Was it because you

33:28

had that extra two years of learning

33:31

on the bit or I

33:33

was just just you know, you

33:35

know, it was just our, you

33:37

know, this is the way we

33:39

operate like Paul. You know, I

33:41

was like the Steve Ozenac and

33:43

Bob was like, and Steve Jobs

33:45

and Bob would just keep coming

33:47

at me with features and I

33:49

was a good programmer at the

33:51

time, I still am, but you

33:53

know, so I was able to

33:55

implement all this stuff and knew

33:57

how to go about doing it.

33:59

Yeah, Paul is great. Paul is

34:01

really good. I mean, like I

34:03

want to replace tape machines. So

34:05

I, so I, kind of described

34:07

to Paul, you know, multi track,

34:09

you know, punch in punch out,

34:11

I don't remember how we came

34:13

up. That's right. We had punch

34:15

in and punch out, you know,

34:17

yeah, we could, you know, and

34:19

plus it needs to be able

34:21

to sink to tape because my

34:23

experience is working and, you know,

34:25

I mean, I was the. probably

34:27

the youngest highest paid chief tech

34:29

in the industry when I was

34:31

hired by seals and crops to

34:33

be their tactical manager. So my

34:35

experience was, you know, really high

34:38

in recording studios and, you know,

34:40

synchronous like Devo in Devo sessions,

34:42

we had like. 10 to 20

34:44

different machines, multi track recorders all

34:46

stunk up. So my experience is

34:48

with synchronizing, you know, tape machines,

34:50

synchronizing lots of tracks. And so,

34:52

you know, that's why our product

34:54

had on the tape, tape interface.

34:56

But yeah, yeah, Paul, Paul is

34:58

definitely the great programmer. I just

35:00

had lots of ideas. One of

35:02

the other ideas, I think we

35:04

were probably the first company of

35:06

the world to offer, online file

35:08

sharing for musicians through our, I

35:10

mean, I started up, I mean,

35:12

at Evergreen, I was responsible for

35:14

lots of computer projects. I maintained

35:16

all of the computer terminals around

35:18

the campus and I taught, I

35:20

was the computer for electronic music

35:22

studio with the Buchal 200 four

35:24

channel synth and, and, so I

35:26

had a lot of experience with,

35:29

computers and maintenance and internet

35:31

and involved in an arponet

35:33

you know before before internet

35:35

and I had you know

35:37

bulletin board services and so

35:39

one of the things I

35:41

did to ever going is

35:43

I set up the the

35:45

world music I think was

35:47

called media world music bulletin

35:49

or BBS media world music

35:51

BBS and it was a

35:53

but our that was like

35:55

an 84 so that people

35:57

could dial up into our

36:00

bulletin word service. I had

36:02

libraries of sequences and sound

36:04

patches and other information so

36:06

that musicians could actually, any

36:08

around the world to dial

36:10

up our BBS and download

36:12

a library music. and

36:15

perform their music set that evening.

36:17

Like, you know, the, you know, our

36:19

sequences would be the, the complete show,

36:21

and they just have to sing

36:23

to it or play there because you

36:26

could tell. The D.X. 7 was big

36:28

back then, and having recordings, saving the

36:30

patches, you know, there were actually

36:32

people that made a living by developing

36:35

patches and selling them. Right, well that's,

36:37

that was, the first thing was

36:39

that at HyperGarts, I knew, I didn't

36:41

want the company to start off being

36:44

small, anyone just one product and the

36:46

world go, hey, what, it only

36:48

got one product? Are these guys around

36:50

next year? And so I can't hold

36:53

all of these ideas, a meaty

36:55

track, meaty patch, session sound, session players,

36:57

and meaty calm. And session sounds and

36:59

session player those two products session

37:01

sounds was a library like I, you

37:04

know, had a lot of musician friends

37:06

in the industry and I had, you

37:08

know, you know, like one guy

37:10

that was, you know, world class, you

37:13

know, a programmer for synthesizers. And so

37:15

he created a whole library of

37:17

really cool patches for me and we

37:19

sold those as session sounds and that

37:22

had other musicians that created these really

37:24

great tracks of sequences for music

37:26

sets, you know, cover tunes. And we

37:29

sold that as session player. And then

37:31

Midicom was a musician friendly telecommunications

37:33

software that worked with the Atari modem

37:35

and with with Midicom, a musician with

37:38

no experience of computers, no knowledge

37:40

of you know, you know, people for

37:42

internet, you know, no knowledge of dial

37:44

up and all that could use our

37:47

software program called Midicom. easily

37:49

connect to our image design specifically

37:51

for the BBS. They could easily

37:53

connect to our our BBS and

37:56

they'd have a really easy set

37:58

of switches or on buttons. touch

38:00

on to select, you know, music

38:02

libraries or patches, you know, or

38:04

more information. There was also like,

38:06

like a forum on there that

38:08

people could ask questions and answer

38:11

questions. So, I mean, that was

38:13

kind of, I mean, we were

38:15

kind of a, I think, ahead

38:17

of our time a little bit,

38:19

you know, before the internet, we're

38:21

sharing stuff and it's all Atari

38:24

eight-bit computer. Yeah. Wow. I mean,

38:26

that's really the power of, you

38:28

know, of a, you know, little

38:30

computer, you know, and a good

38:32

team. Amazing.

38:35

Great. So that's how it started

38:37

and then it grew. Yeah. How

38:39

big did it get? This was

38:42

always a private company, right? So

38:44

it's right. It's hard to know.

38:46

I mean, were you selling a

38:48

million a year, 10 millions a

38:50

year? I mean, what, how big

38:52

were we were a million a

38:54

year at the end up to

38:57

2 million? But there were some

38:59

complications in the I wasn't in

39:01

the company at the very end.

39:03

And there were some complications in

39:05

the accounting that ended up resulting

39:07

in the company shutting down. So

39:09

what happened was we were all

39:12

in our early 30s, if not

39:14

late 20s. And really, none of

39:16

us went to business school. We,

39:18

you know, Bob's got a lot

39:20

of great ideas. We had a

39:22

lot of talent. We're doing things,

39:24

but we didn't know how to

39:27

run a business. So we, we

39:29

got this guy, we're in here,

39:31

right? To run the company. And

39:33

he did some things I think

39:35

run scrupulous. And then we had

39:37

some other employees that didn't like

39:39

what he was doing. And he

39:42

got financing from T. Roy Price

39:44

somehow talked them into giving us

39:46

money. And then this rogue employee

39:48

called up T. Roy Rice and

39:50

said, hey, you know, this company's

39:52

fraudulent or so I don't know

39:54

what the conversation was. But that

39:57

was kind of the end of

39:59

it. And at that time, we

40:01

were at the, yeah, none of

40:03

us. software and I were not

40:05

of us in the company at

40:07

that time. Yeah, you guys had

40:09

cashed out before then and well,

40:12

well, I don't know if they

40:14

cashed out, but I was able

40:16

to run or run or approach

40:18

me and bought my share. So

40:20

I actually did make some money.

40:22

Yeah. And I think Allen was

40:24

still involved more than the other

40:27

three of them. Aida,

40:29

right? At Aetia, right? Yes,

40:31

I can't remember. Yeah, yeah.

40:33

Yeah, we, once we got

40:35

into the 16 bit, the

40:37

company exploded as far as

40:40

technologies and products. I mean,

40:42

we went from, what is

40:44

that, you know, six products

40:46

to well over 30 different

40:48

products. digital audio on digital

40:50

direct to disk recording systems

40:52

samplers. I mean, I use

40:55

the aid app itself to

40:57

do, I don't know, hundreds

40:59

of TV shows, including an

41:01

Emmy nomination for work I

41:03

did using aid app on

41:05

shows like Chicago Hope and

41:07

Beverly Hills 9 or 2.

41:10

There are a lot of

41:12

people using the 16-bit products

41:14

for like major feature films.

41:16

And we had that office

41:18

on an off-national boulevard that

41:20

was like really it. Yeah.

41:22

Was the ADAP machine the

41:25

thing that was in like

41:27

a rack-mounted system? Right. I'm

41:29

thinking the right thing. Yeah.

41:32

Yeah, ADAP was very sophisticated. It

41:34

was really good. And actually how

41:37

ADAP came to the company was,

41:39

and this is a Frank Foster

41:41

story. What does it say for?

41:44

ADAP? Well, I, it was a

41:46

temporary name. I just, you know,

41:48

I call it the analog to

41:51

digital audio processor. That's what ADAP

41:53

stood for. And I mean, I

41:55

was kind of toying with this

41:58

product to do digital audio. And

42:00

this fellow came to Nam show

42:02

in 85, Nam 85 in Anaheim.

42:05

And Frank brings them over, I

42:07

say, Frank brings them over to

42:09

music. Hey, Bob, there's. This

42:13

fellow here, his name is Wendell

42:15

Brown, and he has his company

42:17

called Hippopotamus, and he wants us

42:19

to distribute his product. Why don't

42:21

you talk to him? And so

42:23

I spoke to Wendell Brown. I

42:26

mean, it's like an eight. I

42:28

don't know if you know about

42:30

the Hippopotamus sampler. It was, it

42:32

was really bad. It was a

42:34

toy. It was really bad. And

42:37

I told Wendell, well, I'm not

42:39

interested in that, but I am

42:41

interested, and I described ADAP to

42:43

him. with full sympathy interface and

42:45

you know it's you know directed

42:48

disk and sampler and you know

42:50

all these features and he goes

42:52

I can do that. And so

42:54

we signed we put together a

42:56

contract and signed a deal and

42:58

and Wendell Brown actually did the

43:01

development. I expect the product and

43:03

he developed the IT app. which

43:05

is a great product. I mean,

43:07

I actually appeared on PBS Computer

43:09

Chronicles. I don't know if you've

43:12

seen that. Yeah, I watched, I

43:14

watched that episode. Yeah, yeah. So

43:16

I appeared like the, the, yeah,

43:18

one of the two guys in

43:20

BBS Computer Chronicles is the founder

43:22

of CP slash M. I don't,

43:25

I can't remember what the fellow's

43:27

name was. He is the creator

43:29

of the... Gary Kildal. Yeah, Gary

43:31

Kildal. Yeah, he, Gary, developed basically

43:33

the first operating system for PCs.

43:36

Sure. And it was called CPM.

43:38

Did hybrid arts ever actually have

43:40

a PC product or were you

43:42

strictly Atari the whole time? We

43:44

had Mac and PC but at

43:47

that point it was kind of

43:49

you know things were getting a

43:51

little crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah we

43:53

actually did have the first Macintosh

43:55

product was John Eidsvog had designed

43:57

he actually had designed the product

44:00

before for the insonic. mirage, I

44:02

don't know if you know, the

44:04

sonic mirage, it's a sampling keyboard.

44:06

And, you know, again, this is

44:08

16 bit, this is not eight

44:11

bit. Um, so he had a,

44:13

on, a may sauce, you know,

44:15

it's like an edit system. And

44:17

he approached me with that. And

44:19

I asked him to rewrite it

44:22

for a TariST. So we actually

44:24

did have, you know, his Macintosh

44:26

product, which we just, we're distributing

44:28

for him. but also

44:30

the version he made for us

44:32

for, I mean, I, like companies

44:34

would hand me keyboards, Kauai Handome,

44:37

K3 keyboard, in Sonic Mirage, Handome,

44:39

their keyboard, you know, profit, I

44:41

bought the prophecy, that's the only

44:43

keyboard I've ever bought. They wanted,

44:45

they wanted to make patches set

44:47

up for them and. Yeah, yeah.

44:49

Well, also we were, you know,

44:51

showcased our products at MAM and

44:53

different events around the world. And

44:56

we would have huge lines we'd

44:58

have big crowds in front at

45:00

our booths and so you know

45:02

these and like Paul said like

45:04

we had pointer sisters were our

45:06

like Mark Ritter and I've forgotten

45:08

the other guy's name on Greg

45:10

Welch's name were the two keyboard

45:13

players the two music directors for

45:15

pointer sisters and they would come

45:17

to our shows and perform live

45:19

at our shows for us using

45:21

our products. One one other fun

45:23

story too about Atari 8bit was

45:26

One of our, one of

45:28

the, Kauai was really interested

45:30

in our products. And I

45:32

was able to put together

45:35

a package with them that

45:37

included and negotiate with Atari,

45:39

Kauai, and then of course

45:41

our company. So we actually

45:43

bundled this whole Kauai, I

45:45

found what the name of

45:48

the package is called, but

45:50

we bundled our products, Midi

45:52

Track, and we had a

45:54

custom version of Kauai. editor

45:56

like on patch editor librarian

45:58

and um So our product,

46:00

media track, medium eight, this

46:03

Kauai custom product, a Kauai

46:05

keyboard, an Atari computer with

46:07

display, as one big bundled

46:09

package, typical to buy. Yeah,

46:11

it's like a musician can

46:13

walk into a Kauai music

46:15

store, just walk out the

46:18

store with this complete, you

46:20

know, music system, you know,

46:22

this whole sequencer, like, you

46:24

know, this whole, composing system,

46:26

or like cheap. Neat.

46:29

But that was Atari a bit. Nice.

46:31

It's amazing. Do you either of you

46:34

have any of this software anymore? I'm

46:36

looking at Atari-mania. Some of the stuff

46:38

has been has been archived. Some of

46:40

it has not. Some of the more

46:42

obscure things. And I'm wondering if you

46:44

have any any source code, any any

46:47

software, any disks, anything. I probably have

46:49

some flappy disc. Paul, I don't know

46:51

if you have any. Oh, I have

46:53

flappy disc whether you can read them

46:55

or not. It's a whole other question.

46:57

Well, I can. If anybody can read

47:00

them, I can read them. If you

47:02

can let me. I'll give them to

47:04

you. I have eight, I have all

47:06

kinds of, I mean, eight inch floppies.

47:09

I just, funny, floppies, floppies, floppies.

47:11

Send me floppies, well, we'll get

47:14

the data off them. And I

47:16

can handle kind of sorted by

47:18

size. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I

47:20

know your fourth, I've dealt with

47:23

fourth floppies too. It's a whole

47:25

different thing, but we can get

47:27

the data off there and see

47:29

what you got. Okay. But you're

47:32

Robert, maybe. I was developing on

47:34

my own. And they were never

47:36

actually well I did bring a

47:38

song to to market one of

47:41

those called drummatics which is a

47:43

I am involved in friend of

47:45

mine who's a yeah he was

47:47

a drummer like he programmed linen

47:50

drum machines and he was like

47:52

a studio guy you know he's

47:54

like really good you know and

47:56

so took, I was, I had

47:58

him program on a Lisa's drum

48:01

machine. So this is, you know,

48:03

after Atari, after Atari, is still

48:05

starting to get into 16 bit.

48:07

And he programmed sequences into, you

48:10

know, like drum patterns into an

48:12

Lisa's drum machine. And then I

48:14

was to record those to a

48:16

cassette tape. and that I have

48:19

that cassette tape mass produced and

48:21

duplicated and I had this really

48:23

cool package called drummatics, you know,

48:25

your drum, drum sequence right here,

48:28

buy it today. Another thing I

48:30

did too, this is also an

48:32

auditory eight bit, but after I

48:34

left, I did an all, probably

48:37

the first all digital soundtrack for

48:39

feature film and it was mixed

48:41

at 20th Century Fox at the

48:43

Xanax stage on the studio lot

48:45

and the director of the sound

48:48

department there always a lead mixer

48:50

for that for that that mix.

48:52

It was a feature film from

48:54

a company called New World Pictures.

48:57

It was their last film and

48:59

I think they became Lionsgate. Anyway,

49:01

he really liked like I had

49:03

done the the all of the

49:06

sound for that using ADAP and

49:08

He really liked what you heard.

49:10

And so he asked myself and

49:12

the supervisor on that project to

49:15

move our company onto the lot,

49:17

which we didn't have a company,

49:19

but we formed a company and

49:21

moved on to the Fox Studios

49:24

lot. And one of the first

49:26

things I did was I made

49:28

a deal with a riner at

49:30

hybrid arts to all way on

49:32

me, the ADAP. And I repackaged

49:35

the ADAP into a product I

49:37

called a DM-1, Digital Movieola, and

49:39

it was like a full rack

49:41

case, like a road case that

49:44

had, you know, front door, front

49:46

back doors, you close and you

49:48

could roll it around to wherever

49:50

you need to go and do

49:53

gigs. It was a digital movie,

49:55

you know. it was all digital,

49:57

no film, it was all, you

49:59

just record all the sounds into

50:02

it, it had a full, empty

50:04

interface, it had speakers, it had

50:06

everything built in, you just open

50:08

it up and start, start working.

50:10

And we sold, I don't know,

50:13

five or 10 of them, but

50:15

the guy that I partner with,

50:17

you do the manufacturing, he really

50:19

flaked that he, unfortunately, just stopped

50:22

doing it. But we sold like

50:24

10 at like 50 grand a

50:26

piece. So that was pretty cool.

50:30

But I did a lot I

50:33

personally did a lot of work

50:35

with with A-DAP for feature films

50:37

and there are a lot of

50:39

people did like all the Simpsons

50:41

for up until you know I

50:43

don't know how long ago 10

50:45

years ago or so we're all

50:47

done with A-DAP that the dialogue

50:49

was all cut on the Sony

50:51

Studios lot with using A-DAP. Wow.

50:53

And I actually actually actually did

50:55

when I was on the Fox

50:57

lot went before before Simpsons became

50:59

its own its own film, it's

51:01

on its own TV series. It

51:03

was on, Paul wasn't even that

51:05

show? Tracy Ulman. Tracy Ulman. It

51:07

was on Tracy Ulman show. I

51:10

was on the Fox lot and

51:12

I was doing a lot of

51:14

work for Fox projects and one

51:16

of the projects was this new

51:18

show, they called The Simpsons. And

51:20

they brought it to me and

51:22

asked me to do a, you

51:24

know, to do the sound for

51:26

the first, this promo reel that

51:28

they wanted to, to, to start

51:30

pitching around. So I did using

51:32

ADAP, did the sound for the,

51:34

you know, you know, the Simpsons,

51:36

how it starts off, dung, dah,

51:38

dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,

51:40

that whole thing. I did hold

51:42

his sound for that, for the

51:44

first, the first promo version. I

51:47

don't think they end up using

51:49

what I did, but it was

51:51

just used to start promo. you

51:53

know, there's you know, the skateboard

51:56

and him flying across and the

51:58

car sliding up and all the

52:00

sounds and the, you know, teams

52:02

and dang all the noises and

52:04

I did all the sounds I

52:06

didn't do the music but it

52:08

was just I just did the

52:11

very first version of that that

52:13

they then used to promo and

52:15

then they end up hiring I've

52:17

gotten who they end up hiring

52:19

to do the sound they hired

52:21

so they would have been eight

52:23

seven right right yeah something like

52:26

that no that was like in

52:28

like in um 89 maybe 90

52:30

because I moved on to the

52:32

Fox lot at the I'm 18

52:34

at the end of 88. I

52:36

did that, that feature film at

52:38

the very, like December 88. And

52:41

I was. What film is that?

52:43

Did you say? It was called

52:45

Angels Egg. Or no, was it

52:47

called? I thought not what it

52:49

was called. It was just some,

52:51

some feature film. It was, like

52:53

I said, the last film for

52:56

Nural Pictures. It was called, it

52:58

was, originally it was called Angel's

53:00

Egg, what they had done, Kowlakopare,

53:02

who started a company called Cineville,

53:04

that was like his last project

53:06

at New World. He directed it,

53:08

and he had arranged to buy

53:11

this Japanese anime. and then he

53:13

shot live footage and undercut the

53:15

Japanese animal. It's like the end

53:17

of the world, you know, it's

53:19

the end of the world and

53:21

there's like this guy who's running

53:23

around with this, you know, big

53:26

suit and mask and, you know,

53:28

air filters and there'd be these

53:30

cuts. I don't even, I don't

53:32

really understand what the star was

53:34

about. It made no sense to

53:36

me, but they would intercut between

53:38

this Japanese anime and this live

53:41

guy, you know, and somehow there

53:43

was this interaction. I

53:46

just remember the four of us,

53:48

Richard Frank, Bob, and I, playing,

53:51

playing our Atari that was, we

53:53

had that in common. And I

53:55

forget what games we played, which

53:58

were the ones back then? Well

54:00

we spent a lot of time

54:02

with the arcade in Westwood too.

54:04

Yeah that was before Atari we

54:07

spent a lot of quarters there.

54:09

Space invaders. And what are what

54:11

are what are what are you

54:13

doing what do you do today

54:16

Paul? What do you do these

54:18

days? I'm pretty retired but I

54:20

still stay active I'm I program

54:23

ordinos and raspberries to a certain

54:25

extent and I just I was

54:27

telling Bob I just got my

54:29

my auto fill in the pool

54:32

which uses our dino. and tracks

54:34

tracks it to the internet and

54:36

all this stuff working because I

54:39

just improved the Wi-Fi. So that's

54:41

what I do. I do things

54:43

and then I help my wife

54:45

a lot just accounting kind of

54:48

things with her clinic that she

54:50

runs. Robert, same questions for you

54:52

what tell me something about the

54:54

Atari days that I haven't asked

54:57

about yet. Um, not,

54:59

you know, not, you know, not much,

55:01

there's not much to add other than

55:03

just doing trade shows. Those are really

55:06

fun. But otherwise, I think we kind

55:08

of, kind of covered all, I mean,

55:10

I've seen you that little write-up, that

55:12

kind of covers at all too. And

55:14

that's like a lot of detail. I

55:17

can share that right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

55:19

sure. Okay. Yeah. And what do you

55:21

do today? Well, I kind of do

55:23

a number of things, I have 15

55:26

apps in the Apple store, as kind

55:28

of a side gig, it's really fun.

55:30

I mean, you know, me, it's, you

55:32

know, art technology, it's, and I do

55:34

apps is really a hobby, it's really

55:37

my art form, and I have 15

55:39

apps up there now, there's like 44

55:41

up there in different stages of review,

55:43

but they're kind of all over the

55:45

place, games to, film production to whatever

55:48

else. I've been working as an engineer

55:50

as well for film and TV production,

55:52

post production engineer like one of their

55:54

shows I built was team Z. A

55:57

lot of a lot of these companies

55:59

have a hard time getting this technology

56:01

to work for film and TV. Like

56:03

in 2000, for example, Apple was trying

56:05

to, was hired by a company called

56:08

Cimarron Group to build an Apple one

56:10

or two, have their 16, it was

56:12

like, I think 16 or 17 Final

56:14

Cup pros, connected to a five terabyte

56:17

sand storage, and with abids and pro

56:19

tools, all in this one facility, and

56:21

they couldn't figure out how to get

56:23

it to work. They couldn't play video.

56:25

And they found out about me. the

56:28

samurai group found out about me and

56:30

hired me to basically do what those

56:32

guys couldn't do. Okay, I

56:34

want to add that when we

56:36

started hybrid arts, it was a

56:39

very exciting time, both in the

56:41

B in Los Angeles, I kind

56:43

of mentioned that, but there was

56:45

computer graphics going on and all

56:47

these people were just into doing

56:49

it for the fun of it.

56:52

Same thing with music. It was

56:54

just mini was just starting. I

56:56

worked for a laser company and

56:58

it was just a great time

57:00

to be young and alive and

57:02

technology in Los Angeles. Great. Last

57:04

question. I'll ask you Paul first,

57:07

since you have to go. If

57:09

you could send a message to

57:11

the people who are still playing

57:13

with their Atari computers today, and

57:15

you can right now, what would

57:17

you tell them? Well, yeah, there

57:20

are people still using 8-bit and

57:22

16-bit. Yeah, no, it's exciting. You

57:24

can understand it all. It's so

57:26

computers these days are so complicated.

57:28

That's why I like the Arduino

57:30

just read the schematic read the

57:33

operating system. You can actually do

57:35

that with the Atari read what's

57:37

on the chips and you know

57:39

maximize it learn fourth because that's

57:41

a whole You

57:44

know it makes forth mix C

57:46

and basic and Pascal all look

57:48

the same so it and and

57:51

yeah well for me I I

57:53

use I use a combination of

57:56

my iPhone on my iPad and

57:58

garage band and in-rap audio apps

58:00

and then like do basic tracks

58:03

and then move it all to

58:05

Logic ProX on my Mac to

58:07

finish songs. So I'm kind of

58:10

like a I don't do Atari

58:12

8-bit stuff though, but I think

58:15

it's pretty cool. Like, you know,

58:17

when I, when you were first

58:19

talking about doing this on podcast,

58:22

I did some research. I found

58:24

there's all these people are actually

58:26

still, still using the Atari 8-bit

58:29

and 16-bit to do music. It's

58:31

pretty amazing. It's great. Yeah. No,

58:33

there's also, there's one guy. There's

58:36

one guy. He, he actually has

58:38

M.2 drives working with his Atari

58:41

on ST. No,

58:43

that's no. The thing I was

58:45

going to ask you about if

58:47

you knew about the Roland MT32

58:49

emulator, which is a thing you

58:52

can take a raspberry pie and

58:54

turn it into a full Roland

58:56

synthesizer emulator. I did that. I

58:58

made one, a little screen and

59:00

everything, hooked it up to my

59:02

meaty mate and my Atari, and

59:04

then I had the Atari pushing

59:06

songs to the to the to

59:08

the raspberry pie, and it sounds

59:10

just like an old rolling machines.

59:12

Great. Right, do you know about

59:14

audio kit, those guys? They offer

59:16

freeware for iPhone, iPad, and they

59:18

have, they have all of it.

59:20

They have like rolling drum machines,

59:22

they have, you know, DX7s, they

59:24

have all emulated. It's pretty amazing.

59:26

And they're interrupt audio, meaning that

59:28

you can actually, from within garage

59:30

band on your iPhone or your,

59:33

or your iPad, you can use

59:35

that as a sound source, within

59:37

garage band. You can lay it

59:39

on or track. and it records

59:41

the output of that app into GarageMan and then you

59:43

can move that to Logic ProX on your Mac to

59:45

finish it like do a full professional mix. Nice. Amazing.

59:47

Okay, I'm ready. All right. Thank you. All out of

59:49

here. Okay. I will email you about the floppy disks.

59:51

Thank you for your time. Okay. you. welcome. welcome.

59:54

Thanks, Kay. That was great. That was

59:56

great Paul. you, Paul. If you

59:58

have any more questions, yeah.

1:00:00

If you have any more

1:00:02

questions, feel free to feel free

1:00:04

to, you know, email or call or whatever. Great.

1:00:06

I will do that. You know, and

1:00:08

that list that I sent to

1:00:10

you, if you have questions

1:00:13

about it, about it, like some hey,

1:00:15

what did you say, by

1:00:17

this? mean by this? Honestly, what's

1:00:19

going to happen? The listeners, The the viewers

1:00:21

the going to have a to questions that

1:00:23

I will forward to you. I will forward to

1:00:25

you. Yeah, yeah, me me a link to that, that you're, you

1:00:27

that I can take a look. Oh,

1:00:29

absolutely. It sounds great. This is really fun. I

1:00:31

Thank I Thank you. appreciate your time. If

1:00:38

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1:00:40

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1:00:42

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