0:00

Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair

0:02

Expert early and add free right

0:04

now. Join Wondry Plus in the

0:07

Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts,

0:09

or you can listen for free

0:11

wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome,

0:13

welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert,

0:16

experts on expert. I'm David

0:18

Shepard. That's my brother's name.

0:20

I know, I'm Neil Patman. And you're Neil

0:22

Patman. And today

0:24

we have David Blaine.

0:26

the world -renowned magician and

0:28

endurance artist. Yeah.

0:31

You have probably seen one of

0:33

his specials, Street Magic, Realer Magic, Beyond

0:35

Magic, The Magic Way. And

0:37

he has a new series

0:39

out that is radical called Do

0:41

Not Attempt on Nat Geo. It's

0:43

out now and it's mind -blowing.

0:46

It gave me, my palms and

0:48

my hands were sweating during the

0:50

whole show. And you guys know

0:52

I love magic and we

0:54

get... to see some David Blaine

0:56

magic in real life. He does

0:58

magic for us. It was shocking.

1:00

It was insane. Yeah. The

1:02

magic is just straight insane. I

1:05

know. And so if you're listening,

1:07

you're going to hear X amount

1:09

of this. Yes. And then if

1:11

you want to see the

1:13

magic tricks, they'll be on YouTube

1:15

because they're obviously visual. So

1:17

please enjoy world renowned

1:20

David Blaine. We are

1:22

supported by Claude, the AI

1:24

assistant that just feels different. You

1:26

know, we're curious about the

1:28

old artificial intelligence here on the

1:30

pod. We are curious. And

1:32

we always want to give our

1:34

arm cherries the if you

1:36

know, you know tips. We sure

1:39

do. So they need to

1:41

meet our new pal, Claude. While

1:43

other AI sound like robots, Claude

1:45

just gets it with the emotional

1:47

intelligence, whether I'm researching gas. or refining

1:49

my latest meal plan to get

1:51

Brad Pitt's abs, or looking for the

1:53

best dating advice to give Monica.

1:55

Claude is the fact -checker in your

1:57

pocket while you're in the armshare. Well,

2:00

that's exciting for us. I like

2:02

having an extra companion. Welcome to

2:04

the team, Claude. You can

2:06

try Claude for free now

2:08

at claw.com. That's C -L -A -U

2:10

-D -E dot com. We

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-P dot com slash DAX. We

3:41

cut everything anybody doesn't want. We

3:43

have no gotchas. That's how I

3:46

am, by the way. Every show

3:48

that I do, I don't let

3:50

anybody sign a release until they

3:52

see the footage in the context

3:54

of the show. Yeah. Approve

3:56

it. And then I give their footage. Yeah,

3:58

because when I do the shows for ABC, I

4:00

don't want somebody to be on the show and not

4:02

like what they did. We're not hard.

4:04

That's rare, by the way. Well, Joe

4:06

Brogan doesn't cut anything. He wants it all

4:08

to be a hyper real. Sure. But when

4:10

I did that and the blood whenever they

4:13

had to stop because the medics, you did

4:15

a trick on Rogan and it went sideways.

4:17

Had him push the ice pick through

4:19

the inside normally go this way, pop blood

4:21

everywhere. And they had to because it was

4:23

a medical. Listener

4:26

who can't visually see what you're saying.

4:28

You had what, a skewer? Yeah, an

4:30

ice pick. When that happens, what is

4:32

the range of emotion? That's the thing

4:34

is it changes it from magic to

4:36

now. It's like freak shows. Yeah, fine

4:39

line. I try to figure out the magical

4:41

aspect of things. So I try to show

4:43

it where there's no blood, no nothing. You

4:45

say, how could that be possible? Yeah. How

4:47

is it possible? I figured that out through

4:49

trial and error. So it started years and

4:51

years ago where I would do acupuncture needles,

4:54

but I would just go all the way

4:56

through. I did scans of the hand so

4:58

I could see where all the blood vessels

5:00

were. And I started with the hand. I

5:02

started to build scar tissue. So I started

5:04

switching locations. And I started going through the

5:06

bicep. And what I realized is if you

5:08

give it time, the blood coagulates. If you

5:11

give it enough time, you can heal it

5:13

before it even comes out. And there's nothing.

5:15

It's about time and about pain control and

5:17

about relaxation and not freaking. out over the

5:19

pain. That's the interesting aspect for me. the

5:21

control of it. Of course. The mental control.

5:23

Yeah. That's the fun part. That's wild. One

5:26

of the most difficult episodes in the new

5:28

show I did is India. It's the most

5:30

difficult to watch because they show the suffering

5:32

because then the people will give more because

5:34

they say, oh, he's really doing it. And

5:36

often in the case of the Sikhs you

5:38

do, this is a demonstration to God. It's

5:41

an offering. So if you're suffering, it's even

5:43

more. It's also showing that we don't live

5:45

by the flesh. We live by the spirit.

5:47

That's why they do that. They desecrate. So

5:49

yes, that's part of the reason, but therefore

5:51

they like to show the blood. And for

5:53

me, I was watching them do this. And

5:55

it changed my whole idea of what I

5:58

do. I'm like, oh my God, I don't

6:00

want to traumatize you. It was so hard

6:02

for me to accept that. I stopped them

6:04

from doing what they do. And he's like,

6:06

this is what I love doing. Wow. This

6:08

is my guru taught me. This is my

6:10

passion. I was obsessed with this guy, Deepak,

6:13

who's a circus performer, but his guru told

6:15

him how to break bottles over his head,

6:17

how to dive a mounds of glass. Monica,

6:19

you can't imagine. Imagine watching. It's one of

6:21

the hardest things I've ever watched. It's a

6:23

mound of glass. A broken bottle. Like you

6:25

dumped out a 55 gallon trash can. That

6:27

much glass. He's walking on it, dancing on

6:30

it. Then he's up in the air, body

6:32

slamming on top of it. But then he's

6:34

just getting cut and bleeding? No, it's surface.

6:36

So this is the episode I do not

6:38

recommend, by the way, because it's so difficult.

6:40

For people that like to watch scary things

6:42

in the shore, you could watch the beginning,

6:45

but it starts to become really, whoa. I

6:47

wanted to go find the under. current, the

6:49

things that are really driving what I'm most

6:51

fascinated by, which is the ability to control

6:53

pain with your mind, the ability to override

6:55

what the body's capable of, and they find

6:57

these secrets that they passed down for generations.

6:59

We're going to go all the way back

7:02

though. We're going to go back to Brooklyn.

7:04

Okay. We're going to go back

7:06

to mom and dad in 1973.

7:08

Started in East Flatbush. We

7:10

moved to Park Soap, but Park Soap during

7:13

that time, it was nice buildings. It

7:15

was a beautiful area, but it was a

7:17

dangerous area at the same time. What

7:19

did mom do to support you? Your parents

7:21

were divorced. Yeah. Single mother, biological father.

7:23

She stayed away from, he was messed up

7:25

from the war Vietnam. He was

7:27

a minority. So you got drafted and there

7:29

was no way out. He was Puerto Rican.

7:31

And I think what happens is in order

7:33

to get somebody to go into these combat

7:35

zones, they take morphine, they take whatever they

7:37

get from the infirmary. When he came back,

7:39

it was so difficult because he was hooked.

7:41

So he started with heroin. And then my

7:44

mother waited for him. She was pregnant, but

7:46

it was just too difficult. He would wake

7:48

up at these nightmares. So that ended between

7:50

them. What age were you? He disappeared when

7:52

she told him she was pregnant. OK. Then

7:54

right when she was about to give birth,

7:56

he showed up in the hospital said, I

7:58

don't love you anymore. I'd love another one.

8:00

Oh, my God. What a place to present.

8:02

Yeah, but my mother gave me everything. I

8:04

had the best childhood a kid could dream

8:06

for. But by everything, I mean love or

8:08

walks through the park or take me to

8:10

libraries or museums or bring me to Coney

8:12

Island where I would see those freak performers.

8:15

We'd go into the aquarium. I'd play with

8:17

all those different creatures that they have. But

8:19

really, I would go and I was fascinated.

8:21

And any time I saw a magician, she

8:23

would let me just stop and watch. And

8:25

I started doing magic when I was about

8:27

five or six and I would do trick.

8:29

to her in the library because I'd wait

8:31

for her to pick me up there. I

8:33

was at PS230 and she worked a few

8:35

jobs so sometimes I would take the subway

8:37

alone to the school then back

8:39

and I love taking a subway at six years

8:41

old in Brooklyn in 82. Yes. By the

8:44

way, I knew what I was doing. You just

8:46

two stops. He got off. I walked to

8:48

PSU three, got back and then I would go

8:50

to a library that was right there a

8:52

block way. And then I would wait for her.

8:54

I say this story over and over. So

8:56

it's kind of redundant. But my mother gave me

8:58

a deck of cards around that age. I

9:00

would carry everywhere that I went and I loved

9:03

how it felt still. I can tell when

9:05

I'm watching you there are moments in the show

9:07

where you're interacting with folks and putting on

9:09

shows. But yeah, you holding a deck of cards

9:11

to me is like me and a cigarette.

9:13

I can tell it's just this little safety blanket.

9:15

That's right. To this day, I fall asleep

9:17

with cards and wake up with them stuck to

9:20

my face. Yeah. Yeah, it's never stopped. It's

9:22

like you're lovey. Yeah, but back then I only

9:24

had the one deck, so I cherish that

9:26

deck. Do you still have it? No. Oh, that

9:28

would be cool. a bunch of fires back

9:30

then in Brooklyn, so we lost. What was she

9:32

doing for a living? She was a teacher.

9:34

She was a social worker. She worked as a

9:36

waitress. And what generation was she? She was

9:39

second -gen. Her family came from Odessa. They moved

9:41

to Scarsdale. She grew up with

9:43

a very privileged life, but she left

9:45

everything behind when she was 18 and

9:47

just did everything on her own, put

9:49

herself through school, worked really hard. And

9:51

education was first and foremost, but the

9:53

most important thing to her was the

9:55

encouragement, the love, the support. So it

9:57

was specific to magic for me, but

9:59

anything that I do is like the

10:01

most amazing thing she's ever seen. Well,

10:03

you have a child. You can relate?

10:05

Yes. Who were you in school? Like,

10:08

what kid were you? Up until we moved

10:10

to New Jersey, and even in the beginning

10:12

of New Jersey, it was that nerdy but

10:14

funny, weird kid. And I think lots of

10:16

my friends or magicians were like the kind

10:18

of people that weren't fitting in, and I

10:20

wasn't able to throw the footballs and the

10:22

baseball, but you know, I was like the

10:24

kid that could throw the playing cards, but

10:26

nobody knew I did magic. You kept it

10:28

a secret. my two best friends. Because you

10:30

were embarrassed? Well, I'm lucky that

10:32

I did it that way, because kids are a

10:34

tough audience. I have so many friends that

10:36

are magicians that stopped for many years because they

10:38

did it to other kids and the kids

10:40

were mean and they felt terrible. So they never

10:42

did it again. What happens is when you're

10:44

young and you're doing magic, it's easy to get

10:46

caught because you're learning. So

10:49

somebody got busted with a thing that was

10:51

like a little whatever string. And after that,

10:53

if you got busted, it was so embarrassed

10:55

that he like stopped doing it. So I

10:57

was lucky that I only did it to

10:59

my mother and all of her friends. They

11:01

were kind of hippies in the late 70s.

11:03

So all of her react. were just running

11:05

away laughing. It was the greatest thing ever.

11:07

And then what happens when you go to

11:09

New Jersey? You start a new high school.

11:11

Well, I went there when I was nine.

11:13

Oh! What's funny is in Brooklyn, it was

11:15

a different kind of tough. But in New

11:17

Jersey, the kids were actually tough. One of

11:19

the kids would walk all winter long in

11:21

a t -shirt, and I was obsessed with that

11:23

idea. So I would

11:25

kind of mimic that and take it

11:27

to the next level. So I started

11:29

learning these weird skills that somehow connected

11:32

to magic for me specifically. Yeah, I

11:34

was going to say, because what your

11:36

work ended up being is this weird

11:38

hybrid of magic, and then these different

11:40

endurance challenges. Those are two different avenues

11:42

that you combine very successfully. But

11:44

the part I'm really interested in

11:46

is the kind of overcoming the body,

11:48

quieting the mind, forcing yourself to

11:50

endure something that you otherwise wouldn't choose

11:52

to. And I'm curious if you

11:54

have a story or a theory on

11:56

why you needed to demonstrate that

11:59

was possible. I have to say, I

12:01

think it all began just from

12:03

holding my breath. I was on the

12:05

swim team at the YMCA in

12:07

Brooklyn around six, seven. And I

12:09

was born with my feet turned in, so

12:11

I couldn't swim fast. I couldn't run fast.

12:13

But what I could do is eventually I

12:15

learned to not turn my head while swimming

12:17

so I could hold my breath longer and

12:19

longer. The coaches would say, don't do that.

12:21

You need to breathe. But I was making

12:23

up on time. So I kept doing it.

12:25

And then. the kids started to watch because

12:27

I was able to do multiple laps and

12:29

then I would challenge the older kids because

12:31

they would be like you gotta see if

12:33

you can beat them and I would just

12:35

hold the ladder in standard water holding my

12:37

breath and I didn't realize back then that

12:40

the mechanism of just remaining still and calm

12:42

and overriding that feeling is the success to

12:44

breath holding because really the other kids I'd

12:46

let them go up and down they would

12:48

go up and down five times but the

12:50

up and down And that doesn't help. It's

12:52

counterproductive. Because you're panicking. It's just not efficient.

12:54

If you get trapped under a wave, the

12:56

best thing to do is to just relax

12:58

and wait it out. Your body's very capable,

13:01

right? But if you stress and you fight, it's

13:03

like even if you're getting sucked up by

13:05

a current, you don't fight the current because you're

13:07

never going to beat the current. You just

13:09

relax and conserve energy and go with it.

13:11

And eventually you'll find the way out of

13:13

the current. So you were getting validation at an

13:15

early age from that. it felt good to

13:17

be able to do something that it was

13:19

my own thing because I couldn't compete at

13:21

the other things successfully. So I think that was

13:24

the beginning of the love of endurance. Then

13:26

studying Houdini and his thing was escaped. Obviously

13:28

that was his specific thing and he was amazing

13:30

at it. But I felt like what I

13:32

was good at was endurance. I was like,

13:34

how can I? And then the

13:36

first stunt led directly into it. I was

13:38

buried alive for a week. We're gonna talk

13:40

about it. When do you become aware of

13:42

Houdini and do you go on an immediate

13:44

rabbit hole and read about him? Are you

13:47

immediately obsessed with him? Yeah, but it started

13:49

in the library at the same place I

13:51

started working on card tricks with. The librarian

13:53

that showed me a book of simple magic.

13:55

I saw a book with Houdini looked at

13:57

the pictures and I remember falling asleep and

13:59

immediately while I was sleeping, I kept seeing

14:01

this guy chained to a building staring at

14:03

me. It basically sunk into my mind without

14:06

realizing and understanding why I just love the

14:08

images that he was creating. I can see

14:10

those same images in my head, right? Him

14:12

with these fucking iron shackles and all that

14:14

stuff that was very punk rock. And I'm

14:16

like, okay, that guy's... a stud. There's something

14:18

really cool and dangerous about that guy. And

14:20

where did it go? And what's the history?

14:22

Like, was he standard for that day? Or

14:25

was he an enigma? No, he was an

14:27

enigma now and in assignment at all times.

14:29

He was incredible. But what you're saying is

14:31

relevant. The things that he left behind were

14:33

real. So real to the point that he

14:35

collapsed after doing the breath hold on stage

14:37

and was rushed to a hospital where he

14:39

died. Do we not accept that it was

14:41

from the punch the two days before Toronto? Maybe

14:44

with the kids in his dressing room? died

14:47

in Detroit, right? Yeah, but he shouldn't have done

14:49

the breath hold. It was immense pain, but he didn't

14:51

want to let his audience down. So he did

14:53

the show, he did the upside down breath hold. When

14:55

he came out, collapse on the stage was rushed

14:57

to a hospital and then died in the hospital a

14:59

few days later. What day? On Halloween, he was

15:01

52. Oh, that's pretty good.

15:03

That's so young. That's not good. What

15:06

year was he? What was he operating

15:08

in the 1930s? 1926 is when he died.

15:10

Okay. Doing these crazy tricks in 1926,

15:12

underwater tanks class, just the way things were

15:14

made back then. They didn't 3D print

15:16

anything that was good. He was risking his

15:19

life. That's true. And he was pushing

15:21

himself. Yeah. If you would say he died

15:23

at 31, I'd be like, yeah, it

15:25

sounds about right with the life he was

15:27

living. Yeah, I see what you're saying.

15:29

And since he doesn't have kids, sure. Once

15:33

you have kids, you start reconsidering, oh,

15:35

wait, I don't want to. kill myself doing

15:37

something crazy. Right. It's like, I'm not

15:39

gonna do that. Okay, so Houdini's obviously, I'm

15:41

sure you're not unique in magicians that

15:43

were obsessed with him. Even if you don't.

15:45

love the stunts or his magic because

15:47

he was a card magician. He was a

15:49

magician. He had a magic show. Lots

15:51

of magicians were against him in his day.

15:53

So he's not a good magician. But

15:55

I would say he was more like the

15:57

greatest showman. He was doing the Votervillian,

15:59

the Dime Circus. That's how he built his

16:01

skills. But he is the Mick Jagger

16:03

or the Paul Newman of magicians, right? My

16:05

favorite movie is Cool Ham Luke. There

16:07

you go. I mean, this is a guy

16:09

who just somehow reeked being cool. And

16:11

am I missing a bunch of cool magicians

16:13

between Houdini and you? Oh yeah, the

16:15

first though there was a guy named Chang

16:17

Canasta. He would go on talk shows

16:20

like the biggest ones in London and he

16:22

would just take these incredible risks just

16:24

gambling on what people were gonna say. He

16:26

was using psychology magic. He was doing

16:28

the same kind of risk taking that a

16:30

guy like Houdini was, but it wasn't

16:32

dangerous, but it was still putting it all

16:34

out there. There was another guy named...

16:36

Norton, who I was inspired by, he was

16:38

like the human regurgitator. He was a

16:40

human aquarium. He could put fish and frogs

16:42

and they'd live inside. How long can

16:44

a fish or a frog live? He would

16:46

do it in front of me. Okay,

16:48

so like five minutes so. I'm just the

16:50

testing process for these. The trial and

16:52

error. You're just laying there and like, I

16:54

think I'm going to be this person

16:56

now. So I'm going to swallow a fish

16:58

tonight and see what happens. That is

17:00

abnormal. And had it never injured. Let's

17:03

be honest, a few went down in

17:05

the phase. I promise with frauds I've

17:07

never injured one. I believe you. Not

17:09

one. Okay, so you also, in your

17:11

head, you just thought, I'm gonna try

17:13

this. No, what fascinated me was Harry

17:15

Houdini wrote about it in his book,

17:17

Miracle Mongers, which is kind of the

17:19

impetus for this entire show. It's the

17:21

idea of searching for these incredible people

17:23

around the world that have these amazing

17:25

secrets. Some are real, some are magic,

17:27

but just exploring that. And what fascinated

17:29

me about Mac Norton specifically, the human

17:32

aquarium, was Houdini had topped build with

17:34

him and they were on tour together.

17:36

And Houdini said that this

17:38

must be for real. And I was thinking

17:40

there's no way this guy was gonna fool

17:42

Houdini. And he knew all the sight of

17:44

hand and everything else. So I believed it

17:46

was real, but there was no way to

17:48

figure out how to do it. But I

17:50

was thinking there's also a Piranha's Bosch painting

17:52

from hundreds of years ago. The conjurer it's

17:55

called, but in it there's a man watching

17:57

and there's a frog coming out of his

17:59

mouth. No one had ever done that, but

18:01

I started thinking if a frog could just

18:03

appear, without drinking the water with

18:05

the fries, I'm putting it out, which

18:07

is what the human aquarium did. If it

18:09

could just appear, that's the closest thing

18:11

to real magic. So I went into studying

18:13

the physiology of the body, learning how

18:15

to swallow swords, how to swallow bingo balls,

18:17

learning how to eliminate the acid from

18:19

the stomach, not eating for a certain amount

18:21

of time, putting a gallon of water

18:23

in the stomach, holding it, what temperature, and

18:25

then figuring out how to have frogs

18:27

stay at the very top. So your approach

18:30

was to introduce yourself, be in front

18:32

of someone for a minute before the frog.

18:34

came out. No, for hours. Hours! When

18:36

I did the scene with Drake, Dave

18:38

Chappelle, and Steph Curry, I was doing magic

18:40

and everything else to them, and I

18:42

had - You had a frog in your

18:44

throat? No, I had three frogs and also

18:46

a gallon of water, which is very

18:48

uncomfortable. In this show,

18:50

I went to Japan and met Kobayashi,

18:52

who puts six liters. Is that the hot

18:55

dog champion? Yup, six of these in

18:57

his stomach in less than a minute. It's

18:59

the most painful thing of everything that I

19:02

do in any of my shows, including breath

19:04

holding for 10 minutes, including so in my

19:06

mouth. That's the most difficult part, and it's

19:08

a part nobody even thinks about. Drinking six

19:10

liters of water. that to stretch his stomach

19:12

out so he could fit. Oh, wow. All

19:14

those hot dogs. That's right. Oh,

19:16

my gosh. OK, so you leave New Jersey

19:18

as quick as you can? No, I left

19:20

when I was 18 years old and just

19:23

started working. And you went back to Manhattan.

19:25

Yeah. So when did you have an actual

19:27

routine and what version of magic were you

19:29

doing at the beginning? I went to the

19:31

neighbor of Playhouse and I say with this

19:33

incredible teacher, Richard Pinter, there was that Robert

19:35

Houdain quote that Orson Welles used a magician,

19:37

an actor playing the part of a magician.

19:39

And in the class, I would do these

19:42

magic exercises. And I would do them in

19:44

a very typical magical way where I would

19:46

do the pattern of the trick. Yeah, because

19:48

they almost come with a script. Kind of.

19:50

I was more along those lines and he's

19:52

like, really read that. And when I started

19:54

to read it, I realized how ridiculous and

19:56

I just broke into a puddle of tears

19:58

of laughter. So then I started to do

20:01

magic with my own personality. Yeah. Cause I

20:03

was thinking if somebody could take this and

20:05

change it into something, it wouldn't be like,

20:07

watch me kind of stutter and then it

20:09

would change, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it

20:11

takes a lot of confidence for you, a

20:13

young guy to go, okay, I'm going to

20:15

do this kind of dry monotone, not showy

20:17

the thing I thought was corny. You're not

20:20

looking around and seeing that version working. I

20:22

was working at restaurants. I was doing magic

20:24

to everybody. I started to understand the strongest

20:26

way to communicate with simple close -up magic.

20:28

And what I loved to watch was the

20:30

way people reacted. And the less

20:32

I would force, the more their reactions

20:34

would be. So I kind of obsessed

20:36

over the reactions. Can you relate to

20:38

a flasher? I remember learning that

20:40

flashers, what the kink is, is seeing the

20:42

person's face. Do you know that about flashers?

20:44

No, I don't know. Yeah, the flashing isn't

20:46

necessarily that they're dying for someone to see

20:49

their penis. It's more they're into the reaction.

20:51

That's their king. The shock on their face

20:53

is what they're after. Yeah, there's people that

20:55

just run around and flash people. My face

20:57

is huge in the 70s. I guess when

20:59

I was in the box in London, I

21:01

had sometimes women would do that to me.

21:03

Oh, sure, sure, sure. I've got to earmark

21:05

that too. I mean, people were nuts with

21:07

that box. Well, actually, the media painted the

21:09

incidents that were relevant to the story. People

21:11

would come and they're like, Where's all the

21:13

action? When they come, there is like nothing, right?

21:16

Because I'd say like 99 .9 % of

21:19

the entire time was just amazing people. But

21:21

then you'd get that one egg growing

21:23

up. But it was actually... to me because

21:25

all of a sudden it would become

21:27

about getting that thing off, then four hours

21:29

we're gone. People might not know. I

21:31

want to do a big thing on it,

21:33

but yes, that one is called above

21:35

the below. Yeah, harmony. 44 days in a

21:38

seven by seven by three plexiglass box.

21:40

Yeah, that's right. I want to go through

21:42

each of those. Yeah. So you started,

21:44

you didn't have a period where you were

21:46

trying to do really showy, jokey, any

21:48

of that. No, but when I was 18,

21:50

I went up in a comedy club

21:52

where my friend was performing, convinced me to

21:55

do magic on stage. And

21:57

I did a trick, it went terribly

21:59

wrong. And I didn't get

22:01

back on stage. it all until I was

22:03

like 30. And I kept doing magic.

22:05

Not on a stage. No way. You had

22:07

what the kids have in the elementary

22:09

school. That's right. Yes. And how were you

22:11

making a living? Like, how does a

22:13

magician make a living in 1995? I

22:16

was doing all the fancy restaurants that go in. And

22:18

at first I was a waiter and everybody would come

22:20

back just to watch. And they would try to leave a

22:22

really good tip. And I'd say, no, no, no, tip

22:24

me a normal tip, but come back. So you come

22:26

back to see me do magic. That's when I was like

22:28

18. And then I started just working

22:30

the restaurants up on Lower Park Avenue. So

22:32

restaurants would hire you to walk through the restaurant?

22:34

No, I'd walk into the restaurant. I would

22:36

do magic to the staff, to the manager. Be

22:38

like, can I do magic to the tables?

22:40

And I won't ask for anything. But if they

22:43

wanted to, they can. And that was actually

22:45

very good. But really what happens, I would get

22:47

booked to do private. gigs off of that

22:49

I asked because in LA you have the magic

22:51

castle so people go there and then they

22:53

might love a magician and then they know to

22:55

ask that person to come do a party

22:57

I'm just wondering how one if you're wandering around

22:59

Manhattan I guess it's just word of mouth

23:01

back then I had a really cool business card

23:03

mean I had the definite magic on the

23:05

back of it it was all black with eyes

23:07

on it I run into people years later

23:09

that would pull it out of their wallet and

23:11

say look I still have this in my

23:13

wallet and then people would call me to try

23:15

to book me and then they would say

23:17

how much I would say the price and be

23:19

oh that's too high and I'd say go

23:21

get a deck of Then they'd get a deck

23:23

of cards. I do magic to them over

23:25

the phone. They took a you're hired But then

23:27

I had the idea for the show so

23:29

I ran around and shot me doing magic to

23:31

people all over the streets of New York

23:33

Okay, so you do streets of magic in 97

23:35

and then you do another special the following

23:37

year 98 magic man. Yeah And that's still card

23:39

tricks and stuff. We're not doing anything endurance

23:41

wise yet. Leading into the airing of it is

23:43

when I buried myself alive. Okay. So how

23:45

do you decide to transition from the kind of

23:47

magic you were doing to doing buried alive?

23:49

I went in kind of unknown and came out

23:51

and there was this incredible reaction to it,

23:53

which was crazy. a dear friend of mine who

23:55

has a great library of magic. I was

23:57

living behind his library of magic in a pantry

23:59

room, and one day he opened up a

24:01

book, Jadu, which is about the Indian fakirs, and

24:03

he showed me a stunt where a guy

24:05

was buried alive, and I knew Harry Houdini wanted

24:07

to do the buried alive stunt, but he

24:09

had died before he had a chance to do

24:11

it. He had done another version, but I

24:14

was like, oh, this is interesting, but nobody's going

24:16

to believe it. And my friend Bill, who's

24:18

a great magician, she said, we should bury you,

24:20

sneak you out, do it in Central Park,

24:22

then a month later we'll sneak you back in

24:24

and I was like, no, it has to

24:26

be real. So I was

24:28

like, we're going to do it underwater

24:30

so everything is visible. And I fought with

24:32

him about it because he's a magic

24:34

purist. And lots of my magician friends would

24:36

fight me on the sun. It's like,

24:38

who cares about these stunts? There's nothing magic.

24:40

When you jump off the pillow, you

24:42

need to disappear and end up in the

24:44

bottom and then appear back up top.

24:46

And I was like, no, but that's not

24:48

fun. It's an illusion that you spend

24:50

money building. So I was like, I'd rather

24:52

just really bury myself and eventually I

24:54

buried myself alive. And how does one train?

24:56

went to the cemetery where Houdini was

24:58

buried, which is out in Queens. They sold

25:00

caskets there. So we bought a coffin

25:02

and we brought it back to his apartment,

25:04

put it in the living room, and

25:06

I would just practice how long could I

25:08

go. And when I really became obsessed

25:10

with, which I had always practiced as a

25:12

kid, was fasting. When you remove everything,

25:14

your brain starts to change and things become

25:16

much more meaningful that you would normally

25:18

just ignore. So you become more sensitive to

25:20

colors, emotion, to everything. And it's kind

25:22

of amazing. Okay, so you're in this plastic

25:24

box under three tons of water for

25:26

seven days. And is the fasting because

25:28

my first question, of course, is how do

25:30

you poop? Yeah, you can't. So you have to

25:32

fast for a week before. So I had

25:34

a trucker's tube. It's called what truck drivers that

25:36

go a long distance have. And then since

25:39

I wasn't eating, didn't have to go poop. Right.

25:41

Even in the 44 days, I had the

25:43

same setup and it was fine, except that my

25:45

stomach shut down and afterwards recovery was terrible.

25:47

Did it start getting attention day one or when

25:49

did it start getting massive attention? And did

25:51

you have a goal of how many days I

25:53

went in for my birthday and then came

25:55

out a week later, basically? So I set the

25:58

time, which was seven days, seven nights. I

26:00

think what happened was lots of magicians were so

26:02

against it, and they were saying, oh, this

26:04

is all a hologram. It's not real. He's not

26:06

really doing it. I remember the Amazing Randy

26:08

went on. entertaining tonight. So he's a trickster. It's

26:10

not real. There's no way he's doing it.

26:12

So people would show up, firemen of people. They'd

26:14

shine lasers at me. And then they're like,

26:17

what are you doing? Because the laser wasn't going

26:19

through. It was me. And then I would

26:21

wave and then they'd wave back. But what happened

26:23

was that magician, Randy, they flew him to

26:25

New York and he looked at him and went.

26:27

Yeah, it's real. Then

26:29

the vibe on it shifted to, oh, wow,

26:31

this is a guy that's really doing something.

26:33

Was that like day four? Yeah. I think

26:35

that's when I became aware of you. I

26:37

would have been 22. And I'm

26:39

like, well, did you that hit my radar?

26:42

So it was in a tank. I was

26:44

in a coffin and it was buried, I

26:46

would guess, like nine feet deep. And then

26:48

three feet above me, there was a see

26:50

through Plexi water tank. And that was six

26:52

feet deep. So when you look through the

26:54

water, I was there right below it and

26:56

then there was air pumping in and out.

26:58

That was my big concern was what if

27:00

the air supply something goes wrong. For sure.

27:02

Yeah, but we had a very good team

27:04

and they were in charge and careful. And

27:06

did you self fund that? Jimmy Niederlander, who

27:08

was a Broadway producer that I'm still close

27:10

to when I do a show, he will

27:12

be the producer of it. He backed it.

27:15

Oh. How does one monetize this? I haven't

27:17

monetized any of the stunts ever. Only the

27:19

ones that are on TV. No, those cost

27:21

more than the budget. I always lose off

27:23

of all the stunts. I usually have to

27:25

work and do gigs like the next year

27:27

to pay back the money. I never monetize

27:29

them. I wasn't accusing you of it. No,

27:31

I don't advertise it and say I don't

27:33

monetize them. But even when I do like

27:35

the balloons, I say I don't want a

27:37

penny. I look at them as like performative

27:39

because when I was a kid, I was

27:41

so struck by strong visuals. Like the balloons,

27:43

for example, I always imagined if I was

27:45

a kid and I was at PS2 there

27:48

and I saw a guy flying over my

27:50

head on a rig of balloons, it would

27:52

make my brain go crazy. the dream. When

27:54

you hold a helium balloon, your next thought

27:56

is how many would I have to hold

27:58

before it lifted me off the ground? That's

28:00

right. So the next is in 2000, frozen

28:02

in time. This is a fail,

28:04

but it's a hysterically successful fail, which is

28:06

you were going to go for 72 hours

28:08

in case in a block of ice. But

28:11

you made it 63 hours and 32 Well,

28:13

we started late. That was the issue. Everything

28:15

was not right. So it delayed the start

28:17

time. This was maybe the most difficult recovery

28:19

after you got out of there. My training

28:21

was I'd sit in ice baths and see

28:23

if I could endure that. And then I

28:25

would go into ice lockers and NIAC and

28:27

I would stay in them for as long

28:29

as it was always difficult. But I was

28:31

like, OK, I can do this. It's going

28:34

to be ice around me. It'll have the

28:36

igloo effect. It was a warm November. So

28:38

the air pumping through was 68 degrees. So

28:40

I was like, this is no problem. And

28:42

I was completely wrong. That's a stunt that

28:44

to this day messed me up the most.

28:46

And I could never ever redo that one.

28:48

So what went wrong? It wasn't just the

28:50

standing. It's like the constant radiation of the

28:52

cold from the ice that you don't think

28:54

about standing in one place, the edema that

28:56

occurs. So everything swells down here. No

28:59

sleep. And the hallucinations started kicking really

29:01

hard. And it became a living nightmare. And

29:03

to this day, it was the most difficult

29:05

stunt that I've ever done. Then there was

29:07

the. drip of the cold. Yeah, it's like

29:10

waterboarding. Yeah. How hard was it for you

29:12

to surrender? No, I didn't surrender because the

29:14

goal was to finish. We went live on

29:16

ABC and they were going to break you

29:18

out at the end. My original idea was

29:20

I'm going to break myself out, which

29:22

was ridiculous. So they cut in with the

29:24

chainsaw. We had made it almost to the

29:26

end. The vision of this stunt was something

29:29

that I thought was going to be much.

29:31

better of course so you didn't have to

29:33

signal them like i'm not making it 72

29:35

it was on a schedule no everybody there

29:37

that knew me started saying you have to

29:39

cut them out now because i was tripping

29:41

out of my mind but when they

29:43

started going through the ice with the chainsaw

29:45

i started grabbing at it oh yeah because

29:48

i didn't know what it was my brain

29:50

i was out of it and that has

29:52

to be from the temperature because you've spent

29:54

that much time by yourself it's the combination

29:56

of the extreme environment the standing up No

29:58

sleep. Did you catch yourself falling asleep? No,

30:01

you can't because if you fall into the ice

30:03

or face or freeze, you could frostbite that would

30:05

be a disaster. So no, I stayed awake. They

30:07

was hard. you fall asleep when you were buried

30:09

alive? Yeah, I'd wake up and I wouldn't even

30:11

know I was there. was on like a boat

30:13

in the middle of the ocean sometimes. Why? Okay.

30:17

Vertigo this one's really nuts. You stood on

30:20

a hundred foot high pillar like 90

30:22

foot But yeah, just under two feet wide

30:24

without a harness They had the things

30:26

that could go up and down though So

30:28

there's those handles if it got windy

30:30

I had stability But I could have easily

30:32

had something go wrong and at the

30:35

end I started to hallucinate really hard again

30:37

So I was supposed to jump into

30:39

this little bit of boxes Because

30:41

they were so worried that I was hallucinating because

30:43

I thought the buildings behind me were shaped

30:45

like animal heads, but they were just New York

30:47

City buildings. Yes, there's some gargoyles. So they

30:49

started to build the boxes really high and as

30:51

close to me as possible, thinking that I

30:54

was going to fall off wrong. You

30:56

were standing for 35 hours a

30:58

day and a half. The big

31:00

problem with that one actually was.

31:02

my dear friend James Perce. The

31:04

designer? Yeah. Oh, we love James

31:06

Perce. you want an extra strong

31:09

t -shirt? He made me something

31:11

really cool. This hoodie with this

31:13

design. What I wasn't prepared for

31:15

because it was the end of

31:17

May in New York City, it

31:19

was 39 degree nighttime. So

31:21

now you're again battling the cold and you're standing

31:23

up there shivering the whole time. So your

31:26

energy is just depleting quickly. So that's something I

31:28

wasn't prepared for. So I think that's what

31:30

threw that one off for me is just I

31:32

took a beat. I wasn't ready for. And

31:34

did you ever find yourself wobbly? No, if there

31:36

was any time of wobble, those things would

31:38

just come out. This is a dumb question, but

31:40

are you scared up there? No. So I

31:42

lived on 11th Street and 5th at the time

31:44

and I would just stand up on the

31:47

corner of my building and I would put like

31:49

a flower pot upside down on the edge

31:51

of the building. I would just stand there. Lots

31:53

of times the beginning, an ambulance would show

31:55

up for the fire door, but then they knew

31:57

it was me and I wasn't going to

31:59

fall off or jump. But that's how I trained

32:01

myself. So I just changed my brain. So

32:03

whether it's up there or down here, it's the

32:05

same. Like if I said to you, you

32:08

have to stand here for 36 hours or you

32:10

will die. You're going to do it. You'll

32:12

figure it out. Well, now that I have kids,

32:14

but I might have given up. No, you

32:16

were trained yourself and just 160 feet up stood

32:18

there and look down and made yourself comfortable

32:20

that you could rewire your brain. And that's part

32:22

of the thing that I love about all

32:24

these challenges is you do learn to rewire your

32:26

physiology or your brain or the way you

32:29

think about things from a wiring point of view.

32:31

So that's why they say when you're looking

32:33

out of an airplane, you're not afraid. But when

32:35

you stand on the edge of a building,

32:37

you're afraid. It's because your hard wiring is like,

32:39

you know, this height standing on a cliff,

32:41

looking down, you understand it. My analogy is like.

32:43

I've skydived and it's not scary. Bungie Court

32:45

is very scary, because you can see the ground

32:47

and you decide to dive at it. Your

32:50

brain understands those heights, but through evolution, we were

32:52

never up 30 ,000 feet. Stay

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DAX to get started today. What

36:57

is happening in the

37:00

internal narrative? Because

37:02

this is my assumption is

37:04

there is a dedication to doing

37:06

something novel and unique. that

37:08

no one can do and I'm

37:10

going to prove it. What

37:12

is the identity? piece of

37:14

all this. So I think for me, it

37:17

starts from a visual, because I was struck

37:19

by those visuals of Houdini when I was

37:21

a kid, like standing on that pillar, I

37:23

was with Gaioceru at a cafe. And he's

37:25

like, Oh, look at that pole right out

37:27

there. That's kind of cool looking. And right

37:29

at that moment, a bird landed on top

37:31

of it. And I was like, Oh, that's

37:33

got to be my next thing. And then

37:35

I obsessed over that idea of just like

37:37

a tall column. And then I started researching

37:39

and I found San Simeon and all the

37:42

pillar scenes and all the people that lived

37:44

up on the pillars. And I became obsessed

37:46

with it. But then the fun part for

37:48

me was learning how to jump because you

37:50

start at five feet then ten feet constantly

37:52

trying to learn new things challenge myself and

37:54

override the inherent fears that we have I

37:56

think that's part of the thing that I

37:58

love but again do you like it because

38:00

you go like there's an infinite possibility that

38:02

I'm discovering is there a freedom of oh

38:05

I think I have these limits but in

38:07

fact I have a much more infinite scope

38:09

can you articulate what the joy

38:11

is. Part of that is proven that

38:13

we are capable of more than we think.

38:15

I think even to be drawn to

38:17

magic, you kind of want more out of

38:19

life. You want life to be magical

38:21

and you want it to have more out

38:23

there than just presented to you. You're

38:26

like starving for more. As you're saying all

38:28

this, I'm seeing stranger in a strange

38:30

land over your head, which is funny. And

38:32

then above that is brave, not perfect.

38:34

All these titles are great. Oh no, don't

38:36

get any ideas from this room. No,

38:38

no, no, but I think it's much more

38:40

simple than that. For learning magic, it

38:42

was just I loved how cards felt in

38:44

my hands. And then I loved how

38:46

I could change the course of my mother's

38:49

day with a simple trick. The endurance

38:51

thing was just being able to override and

38:53

do something that was unique to me.

38:55

Once I started to come up with these,

38:57

how do I make this into a

38:59

visual? How do I make this into something

39:01

striking? That was where the love of

39:03

performance are intersecting with magic was exciting. Even

39:05

for the series, it said, only give

39:07

me ideas that when you say them, it's

39:10

going to make me uncomfortable. I want

39:12

to do things that make me uncomfortable. I

39:14

want to break the comfort zone because I

39:16

related to you a ton again I'm projecting but

39:18

I'm watching you watch a guy break a

39:20

bottle on his head and I can see in

39:23

your face you're like fuck I don't want

39:25

to do this and I'm gonna have to do

39:27

this because I can't not do this now

39:29

that I know it can be done I understood

39:31

that there's a technique But I

39:33

also understood that there's a great risk to

39:35

this. And I also understood that

39:37

you could easily slice your eye. You could

39:39

do anything. And then normally I have a

39:41

learning curve. I'm like, well, I don't really

39:43

have a learning curve. Everything was happening

39:45

quickly during the last year of filming. And

39:48

I was like, can I do it? And

39:50

at that moment, my daughter called. And when

39:52

she called, somebody's holding my phone. I

39:54

was like, yeah, I'm not doing this. But

39:56

I still couldn't get out of my mind

39:58

because the way he does it just makes

40:00

no sense to me. It's

40:03

so fucking disturbing, I want to

40:05

add. He's there with some water bottles

40:07

and you're like, okay, but then

40:09

he goes to a fucking square whiskey

40:11

bottle. And I'm like, this is

40:13

nuts. I would watch it over and

40:15

over and try to understand how

40:17

does this make sense? Cause it's so

40:19

counterintuitive. So it was something that

40:21

wouldn't leave my mind. So then is

40:23

it more not about bravery? Is

40:25

it about intelligence? Are you like, you're

40:27

smart enough to figure this out. Figure

40:29

this out. That's such a good question. I

40:31

think it has to do with it's

40:34

an idea that just gets stuck in my

40:36

head and then I can't get it

40:38

out. It's like an OCD thing. Yes. Thank

40:40

you. It's

40:43

obsessive compulsion. Yes, it's an idea gets

40:45

stuck in my head and I'm trying to

40:47

work out the mechanics of it. I'm

40:49

trying to understand it. That makes sense. I

40:51

needed an explanation. Thank you. I don't

40:53

think it's a Bravo type of thing. I

40:56

think it's more internal. Yeah, there's an

40:58

angst until the That is solved. Yeah, do

41:00

you feel relief when you're done with

41:02

one of those or do you feel elation?

41:05

I just love Deepak so much. I was so

41:07

happy to let him teach me something. the

41:09

burial, things you've completed yourself when you're done, when

41:11

they let you out of the ice. Well,

41:13

I guess your brain is kind of fucked up.

41:15

But is the feeling relief or is it,

41:17

yes, I did it. It's never, I guess I

41:19

did it. Yeah. That's true. Do you get

41:21

peace from it? I had this obsession. That's a

41:23

really good question. now done it, and now

41:25

I have peace until I think of the video.

41:27

Well, no, but they're not all based on

41:29

that obsession. One time it's like, oh. 15

41:32

minutes, one time 20 minutes and two seconds

41:34

under water. Heartbeat was eight beats per minute.

41:36

They had telemetry on me. So it was

41:38

like this fascination with what's possible. Some of

41:40

it is that some of it is an

41:42

idea gets stuck in my head. Some of

41:44

it is just the visuals is so compelling

41:46

that I just want to do that. The

41:48

poll one is interesting because I once saw

41:50

in Australia on a trip, an orangutan, they

41:52

just put telephone poles up for them to

41:54

play on. and these big orangutans either we

41:56

just sit at the very top and they

41:58

were so peaceful. And it is such a

42:00

disturbing image. Oh my God, that thing likes

42:03

being 60 feet in the air. And

42:05

it's very memorable and terrifying to a

42:07

terrestrial creature like us. Also, when you're

42:09

up there, there's a stillness now all

42:11

of a sudden. And there's no phones.

42:13

There's no distractions. There's no food. There's

42:15

nothing about what I'm going to eat.

42:17

So suddenly you're kind of like still.

42:19

present. You're present. You feel everything. You

42:21

see the sun go all the way

42:23

across the sky. You see things that

42:26

you would never normally stop and pay

42:28

attention to and they're amazing. There's so

42:30

many different things that drive for each

42:32

individual thing. But to Monica's question I

42:34

think I have a bit of an

42:36

answer. And which is, again, this is

42:38

what I always say that I love

42:40

about the track on a motorcycle. Your

42:42

mind can't wander. If it thinks of

42:44

something else for one second, you'll go

42:46

off. And so my addiction to it

42:48

is just I go for eight hours,

42:50

they're 20 minute sessions, and I cobble

42:52

together like. four hours of being dead

42:54

present, which is so rare for me.

42:57

My brain is so fucking busy. Right.

42:59

So I'm imagining maybe there's also this

43:01

relief from maybe a noisy brain otherwise.

43:03

Or it's a heightened sense of awareness.

43:05

And that can be very pleasurable. Yeah.

43:07

People when they're getting into accidents, they

43:09

say they see everything in slow motion

43:11

and it's because everything else is gone.

43:13

So you're aware of everything. You're taking

43:15

in more data too. That's right. Okay.

43:17

Above below. We got to talk about

43:19

that one. Yeah. So as we said,

43:21

44 days in a seven by seven

43:23

plexiglass box hovering 30 feet in the

43:26

air. There was a webcam so people

43:28

could watch the entire time. Yeah. As

43:30

you already said, you would fast it

43:32

for that so you don't have to

43:34

go duty for that long. Yeah, it

43:36

was like a 47 day fast. You

43:38

drank. Nothing but H2O. 1 .2 gallons

43:40

of water a day. Yeah, 4 .5 liters.

43:42

Where? In London. On the River Thames,

43:44

right by the Tower Bridge. So it

43:46

was the most beautiful view ever of

43:48

the river. It was pretty amazing and

43:50

surreal. As a layperson, my thoughts are,

43:52

what does it feel like to starve?

43:54

Because you really go into starvation at

43:57

that point. Yeah, I'd read all the

43:59

books from people that had done extreme

44:01

fasts or protests where they would

44:03

fast against each other, like Bobby Sands

44:05

when he died in 66 days or so.

44:07

But then I started speaking to people

44:09

who had done fast. And you're always curious,

44:11

are they really doing the fast like

44:13

they say? Or are they taking

44:15

some sort of glue? Because it's hard

44:17

to believe that the body can't. I did

44:19

go right to the breaking point. I

44:21

do think going that long is too much

44:23

on the body. But the things that

44:25

I had read about were all exact. They

44:27

said in about 28 days, in about

44:29

a month, you start to have this pear

44:31

taste in your mouth. You switch from

44:33

breaking up muscle tissue and then the organs,

44:35

and you start to eat your own

44:37

body, of course, but then it starts to

44:39

taste sweet. And I was so paranoid,

44:41

because I had water that was coming up,

44:43

but again, pure H2O, no minerals, no

44:45

nothing. And when I was drinking it, it

44:47

became sweet in like 28 days, exactly

44:49

when it said it would. And if I

44:51

hadn't read that, I would think that

44:54

they were putting sugar into the water, right?

44:56

But I still thought that. I would

44:58

make people stand below me and I'd pour

45:00

water out into their cup. I'd say,

45:02

Tasis, is there sugar in it? I didn't

45:04

trust my own team with it. I

45:06

thought they were all trying to save me.

45:08

Yeah. Is there sugar in it?

45:10

They're like, no, it's water. the way, if

45:12

you're on his team, you're like, he's fucking lost

45:14

his mom. know. He won't even let us

45:16

taste the water. They'd say, oh, it's just water.

45:18

But that happens and then around 40 days

45:20

I start having really bad heart palpitations. It's really

45:22

bad on your heart, right? It's tough on

45:24

every organ. How long does the hunger part last?

45:26

That's gone in two days. I would have

45:28

dreams of eating certain food. Yeah, did you start

45:30

planning? Because even when I have a flu

45:32

that lasts like four days and I haven't eaten

45:34

and I can't eat, I start thinking about

45:36

McDonald's french fries like day three and I just

45:38

start obsessing about when I get to eat

45:40

those. Did you have a meal planned? So in

45:42

the beginning I was dreaming of smoked salmon

45:44

on a bagel of cream cheese. And

45:46

as it evolved, I started dreaming of

45:48

soup for sure. And I would wake

45:51

up in the middle of the night

45:53

after like day 30. I'd have vivid

45:55

dreams. I left the box, got out,

45:57

I was eating a meal and I'd

45:59

wake up. Panic you cheated and wound

46:01

it. Yeah. Oh. It failed. Yes. Yeah,

46:04

yeah. These are like relapse dreams. And

46:06

a great starvation expert, Dr. Jeremy

46:08

Paltuck. We published a paper in Newland

46:10

Journalist. I was very proud about the effects

46:12

of the refeeding syndrome because when I

46:14

came out of the box, assumed when I

46:16

was going in my team even tried

46:18

to give me sugar vitamins, which by the

46:20

way, I probably would have died if

46:22

I had taken them because the metabolism in

46:24

your body wouldn't shut down and go

46:26

into starvation mode to preserve itself. I wouldn't

46:28

take them, of course. So I did

46:30

the entire 44 days. When I went to

46:32

the hospital, he didn't believe it was

46:34

real. He thought I was cheating as well,

46:36

which is what everybody assumed because I'm

46:38

a magician. Oh, what's the trick? So he

46:41

put me on an IV right away

46:43

and my phosphate levels went and I almost

46:45

went into shock. Yeah, I just want

46:47

to frame this. So what was most dangerous

46:49

about this? whole thing was refeeding. I

46:51

think so. I think the whole thing is

46:53

dangerous once you go over 30 days,

46:55

so I would never recommend anything like that

46:57

to anybody. Because if you had gotten

46:59

out and eaten a pepperoni pizza, you would

47:01

have died. I don't know, but I

47:03

know that when they put me on the

47:05

IV, my phosphate level just, why did

47:07

it? The body can't handle it. Walk me

47:09

through the refeeding process. I

47:11

went on the IV and then boom,

47:13

a friend has sent a trunk

47:15

from Harrods full of food to my

47:17

room and I was giving it

47:20

to all the doctors and nurses and

47:22

everybody. And then two days later,

47:24

I was so hungry, there was a

47:26

bag of potato chips in there,

47:28

and I was like, what the hell?

47:30

I opened it, ate the worst

47:32

stomach, like horrible pain, and then they

47:34

had to readjust and take care

47:36

of me again. Eventually, I got back

47:38

to eating, and then everything comes

47:40

back in full force. Okay, so

47:42

there was the starvation part. And then how

47:44

do you deal with boredom? I always say to

47:46

everybody, boredom is a choice. And I kept

47:48

writing that, and I have a journal and a

47:51

pen. That's all I had in there. And

47:53

I wrote over and over, boredom is a choice.

47:55

And everything is perspective. Everything is how you

47:57

see it. So I think you choose to be

47:59

bored. And if you want to be bored,

48:01

that's fine. But the mind has so many things,

48:03

you know, Rainer Marie Brilke in his book,

48:05

Letters to Young Poe. I remember reading that when

48:07

I was younger, and he says, you know,

48:09

So even if you're locked up in the most

48:11

solitary prison confinement, you can still imagine where

48:13

you are, what you're doing. You can see your

48:15

friends. So that's I guess my question. How

48:17

much of your day were you floating off into?

48:20

the ether of imagination. I

48:22

have to say a lot of what

48:24

I do, and I think with magic as

48:27

well, is based on numbers and logic.

48:29

I was breaking it up. It was 1

48:31

,056 hours, 44 days. I was breaking everything

48:33

up into time numbers, and then I

48:35

would say, okay, I just need to get

48:37

to the halfway point. 22 days, which

48:39

I would then break up to 11 days.

48:41

And then when I got to 22,

48:43

I was like, okay, this is now the

48:45

starting point. So I only have to

48:47

do that again. And then I would write

48:49

all of these logic puzzles and things

48:51

in the journal and things that I just

48:53

love. doing to occupy my mind. And

48:55

then also the people that would come that

48:57

would walk by to work every day.

48:59

I became friends with all, you know, I

49:01

was like communicating. Were you up? It

49:03

was like 30 feet in a completely glass

49:05

box. So people could hear you? No,

49:07

but they could on that. camera that was

49:09

up there if they wanted to. I

49:11

think that was one of the first continual

49:13

live stream things. It's very similar to

49:15

an Olympic athlete training your brain to just

49:17

keep going and pushing. Ignoring every signal

49:19

you're receiving. I think Olympic athletes have to

49:21

work much harder. No. I think you're

49:23

working much harder than they are really. No,

49:26

but I think this is more along

49:28

the lines of... the conditions, but also it's

49:30

different when you know the beginning and

49:32

the end. Then it's just how do you

49:34

get there. true. But that's a mindset

49:36

that you know the end. You hope you

49:38

know the end, but you might not

49:40

because you don't know how your body's gonna

49:42

really react. That's true. You anticipate the

49:44

end. Which I think athletes do that. Okay.

49:46

Now you say it was exaggerated in

49:48

the media, but I must know these. So

49:50

people did start vandalizing or there are

49:52

at least a handful of someone through eggs,

49:54

someone through balloons full of paint. Yeah,

49:56

that was really cool. to cut you down.

49:58

He tried to cut my water supply

50:00

off. Oh, yeah. There we go. Okay. What

50:02

do you think those few vandals were

50:04

reacting to? Because I have a very strong

50:06

opinion about what it was. No, I

50:08

want to hear your opinion. I think there's

50:10

something in us as a social primate

50:12

that feels like we need to police how

50:14

much attention people get. There's just a

50:16

guy who's getting all this attention, and now

50:18

people are stopping. Also, it was a

50:20

see -through box, so it was kind of

50:23

like what you're saying exactly. Was there any

50:25

women that did this shit? I gotta

50:27

imagine his dudes that were throwing shit. Yeah,

50:29

for sure. Yeah, so I just think

50:31

there's this like, whoa, why is this guy

50:33

getting so much attention? He didn't do

50:35

X, Y, and Z. You get attention for

50:37

X, Y, and Z, and why is

50:39

he getting this attention? And fuck this guy.

50:41

There was this one guy that used

50:43

to come every day because his girlfriend wanted

50:45

to come see it. Oh. And he'd

50:47

be behind her, and every day he would

50:49

walk up. and go like this to

50:51

me, but behind her. She'd be waving and

50:53

he'd go like this. But when he

50:55

would come, which was almost every day, he

50:57

would make my day. I would laugh

50:59

so hard because he was so passionately angry.

51:02

So when he would come, I would smile

51:04

and wave at him. So he started

51:06

to come on his own. Then I'd have

51:08

full communication. He provided such

51:10

an incredible distraction that he became a very

51:12

relevant part for me. We became friends. At

51:14

the end when I got out, he was

51:16

waiting in the house and I was so

51:19

excited to... Well, again, that's that

51:21

other social priming thing is like, I don't like this guy's

51:23

getting all this attention. Wait, this guy kind of likes me.

51:25

I'm a part of the attention now I'm in. Yeah.

51:27

People don't like being on the

51:29

outside of something or feeling like I

51:31

can't do that. But I also

51:33

think there's a part to it of

51:35

what you're saying. That's weird. It

51:38

makes no sense. And why is he

51:40

doing it? You paint your own

51:42

version of what the reason is. You're

51:44

projecting what you feel onto that.

51:46

Last thing. Before full show is Vegas

51:48

residency for ten months at resort

51:50

world and then now at the win

51:52

And I guess I was maybe

51:54

shocked to read that your very first

51:56

residency was 2023. Yeah, were

51:58

you not tempted to just go

52:00

grab those bags of cash? Before

52:04

I mean, I've already learned frustratingly so you

52:06

don't seem motivated by money not at all

52:08

I don't trust you. I'm not complaining. I

52:10

do fine, but money's never been the decision

52:12

-making factor. So my mother taught me when

52:14

I was young because she grew up with

52:16

extreme privilege but left everything, did everything by

52:18

herself and was much happier than when she

52:20

lived in a big house in Scarsdale. She

52:22

said the way I think about things is

52:24

if you would do it for a dollar

52:27

she would say penny but if you do

52:29

it for a dollar then you should do

52:31

it for whatever and if you won't do

52:33

it for a dollar then you shouldn't do

52:35

it for whatever when I think about things

52:37

like would I do this if it was

52:39

a dollar yes or no and that's how

52:41

I decide on almost everything and it could

52:43

just be the person or the team and

52:45

that's enough of a decision -making process right And

52:47

so your residency, you're doing three days a

52:49

month, is that right? Because physically you can't.

52:52

Well, that's what was going to say. This

52:54

is where your act sucks. Whereas if you're

52:56

just doing a bunch of other shit, you

52:58

could monetize the hell out it. That wouldn't

53:00

be fun for me. I want to show

53:02

that I know anything can go wrong. Stakes.

53:04

Yes. I know that I'm giving everything I

53:06

have to the audience. Yeah. And I think

53:08

that was a problem with Houdini. He was

53:10

so driven by satisfying the people that were

53:12

coming to see him that he pushed himself

53:14

to the breaking point. Yeah. He didn't have

53:17

the type of hack that you could do.

53:19

20 times a month, but he did it

53:21

20 times a month. Right. That's why he

53:23

was always in incredible shape. And that whole

53:25

dime circus, Vodavillian performing, they were the toughest

53:27

of the top seven shows in a row.

53:29

I was obsessed with Buster Keaton for a

53:31

long time. And yeah, he grew up as

53:33

a little kid in vaudeville acts and getting

53:35

thrown his family would kick him or put

53:37

him in a suitcase and chuck him into

53:40

the audience. Yeah, he was incredible. Oh,

53:42

what a fucking genius that guy was. So

53:44

when I made my first TV show, I

53:46

was studying Buster Keaton a bunch. And I

53:48

remember his thing was he tried to do

53:50

everything in one. take no cuts. So that

53:52

led to what I was trying to do

53:54

with street magic is try to get one

53:56

take through the magic at the reaction without

53:58

cutting. That was inspired by him. He was

54:00

A phenomenon. Athletically, like he's the first Jackie

54:02

Chan. Jackie Chan in his best day is

54:04

just Buster Keene. Supposedly Houdini gave him the

54:06

name, although that's been disproven, but he had

54:08

said that Houdini named him Buster when he

54:10

was five because his parents used to throw

54:12

him on the board of going the stages

54:14

and to the wall and Houdini says he's

54:16

Buster. That very most

54:18

famous stunt of his that people can

54:20

picture in their mind, which is the

54:22

front of the building falling. He's in

54:24

front of a house he built himself.

54:26

And then of course the last frames,

54:29

it falls. flat and there's one window

54:31

open on the second floor of the

54:33

face of the building and it falls

54:35

perfectly around him. And he had like

54:37

four inches on each side and half

54:39

of his crew quit. They were like,

54:41

we're not sticking around to watch you

54:43

get flattened by the face of this

54:45

building. Okay. So the Nat Geo show

54:47

it's called David Blaine do not attempt.

54:49

And I watched India. That's the one

54:51

you watched. It's the hardest of them.

54:53

By the way, that's first when I

54:55

get the link. Southeast Asia would be

54:57

the one I would say to watch

54:59

first, then Brazil, then all

55:02

the others. talent if you're

55:04

like okay that's been okay I'll watch India

55:06

but carefully and I also think lots of

55:08

them should be watched by adults watch it

55:10

first make sure you understand because there's some

55:12

things that are scary like I push a

55:14

steak knife into my nasal yeah which is

55:16

crazy and then like he said the bottle

55:19

breaking thing which is what woke me up

55:21

in the middle of the night which is

55:23

why I called the show do not attempt

55:25

horrified of the idea of somebody trying to

55:27

imitate that this is my great carousel with

55:29

you young magicians it's like no one will

55:31

tell anyone their tricks, how the fuck are

55:33

you supposed to learn? You

55:36

hound them until they tell you. Or

55:38

books. The secrets get told. Yeah, or you

55:40

reverse engineer it like a logic puzzle,

55:42

you figure it out diligently, and then you

55:44

come up with your own version by

55:46

doing so. You got Deepak. to pull a

55:48

string you put in your mouth out

55:50

of the side of your face. Yeah, and

55:52

I figured that out by watching the

55:54

Urrs Festival. So they were pushing things through

55:56

and I was like, wait, so there's

55:58

a passage there. And that led to trying

56:00

to figure out how to turn it

56:02

into a magic trick. Yeah, so do you

56:04

feel any compulsion? Like what I like

56:06

is you're really upfront about generally what's magic

56:08

and what is an endurance thing or

56:10

just a pain threshold. But some of your

56:12

tricks, will you always declare whether they're

56:14

magic or not? Yeah, yeah. So the one

56:16

I saw where you put a string

56:18

in your mouth and he pulls out the

56:20

side of your face is that magic.

56:22

No, it's real combined with magic, which is

56:24

the stuff that I like. Because then

56:26

it makes the magic more believable because then

56:28

you're not like, oh, what's the trick?

56:30

You're like, but wait, that thread is really

56:32

coming out of his skin. Yeah, what

56:34

part is the illusion? Right. That's exciting part.

56:36

That's right. The stunts themselves are not

56:38

tricks. It's a different thing. You'd think you'd

56:40

have like all these holes in your

56:42

face. You're in great shape, right?

56:44

You've damaged some stuff. Damaged, yeah, big

56:46

time. And I go up and down,

56:48

up and down right now. I'm on

56:50

the up. I've definitely messed up my

56:53

body and my metabolism and everything else.

56:55

Yeah, what is the thing that is

56:57

hardest of all the fallout from these

56:59

things? What's the thing that you're like,

57:01

fuck, I kind of wish I didn't

57:03

do that one. Now it's like I'm

57:05

starting to feel the effects of everything.

57:07

Are you 53? 51. You know that

57:09

logic puzzle? It's two days ago, he

57:11

was 18 years old. Next year, he

57:13

turns 21 years old. How is that

57:15

possible? Okay. Two days

57:17

ago, he was 18 years

57:19

old. So he hasn't 19.

57:21

Next year, he turns 21

57:23

years old. How is that

57:25

possible? Well, that's easy because

57:28

if he's born on January.

57:30

Bingo, first. So two days

57:32

ago, he was 18. But

57:34

yesterday in December 31st, he turns

57:36

19. The last day of this

57:38

year, he turns 20. But next year on

57:40

the very last day, he turns 21. I

57:42

was held by having a January 2nd birthday.

57:44

It felt very natural. Now,

57:48

they do a lot of impaling

57:50

the fakirs. That's kind of

57:52

their signature. Or maybe I'm wrong.

57:55

But that seemed to be what I saw

57:57

the most. Putting skewers through the inside of the

57:59

arm and pushing them out, popping their eyeballs

58:01

out of the sword. That was the craziest thing

58:03

I've ever seen. I called my optometrist. I

58:05

was like, what are your thoughts on this? He's

58:07

like, you're going to degenerate your vision. I

58:09

was like, yeah, no. But yeah, they

58:11

go in and. pull their eyes significantly

58:13

out, but it's very difficult to watch. Even

58:15

the way you're reacting, that's just from

58:17

hearing it, but seeing it, I couldn't even

58:19

believe that this was real. Yeah, so

58:21

someone might be inclined to think because you

58:24

are willing to put these skewers through

58:26

your own hand that it might be easy

58:28

for you to watch it, but then

58:30

watching you, I don't think it is. It

58:32

was very difficult for me. I gotta

58:34

say what's really fun is these guys are

58:36

doing this incredible stuff, and the guys

58:38

jumping into glass and everything, and then the

58:40

bottle. But David's got like some

58:42

tricks up his sleeve that even they haven't

58:44

done. So it's like, after all the glass,

58:46

he's like, hand me a piece of that

58:48

glass. And then he just starts eating glass.

58:50

And they're like, whoa, it must be fun.

58:52

It's funny to me that you think what

58:54

they're doing is wild. To me, it's the

58:56

same. Eating glass and cracking a bottle. In

58:58

fact, cracking a bottle over your head to

59:00

me is like, it happens at a bar.

59:02

You gotta see it. Okay, okay. You really

59:04

gotta see what you're saying is right. It

59:06

does come off as that, but the way

59:08

he does it is his guru teaches him

59:10

a method and he learns how to do

59:12

it. And it is precision. It is something

59:15

that he's done repetitively and it's flawless when

59:17

he does it. It's kind of like, how

59:19

is that possible? Like, how does he do

59:21

it? And there's no bum. It's more like

59:23

watching a gymnast land a crazy trip. Right. You're

59:25

like, oh yeah, there's a total technique

59:27

here. But eating glass is the same, just

59:29

so you know, from an audience perspective.

59:31

I mean, you saw it, so maybe to

59:34

you, you say. It's very dangerous. I

59:36

prefer to try. I see glass, then hit

59:38

myself in the head with that whiskey

59:40

bottle. I would say don't do either. But

59:42

if you were recommending one over the

59:44

other, I think you'd agree with me. I

59:46

don't recommend either. Can I chew the

59:48

glass up fine enough? If no enamel on

59:50

my teeth, my nerves are exposed, it

59:52

hurts all the time. Hot and cold, it

59:54

sends pains into my... head's okay. I

59:56

don't recommend either. But like I

59:58

said, that episode is the that the show

1:00:00

is titled, Do Not Attempt, because that. Yeah,

1:00:02

yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one that's like

1:00:04

the most... Well, not mine, not until I

1:00:07

own any glass. But yeah, in my mind,

1:00:09

I'm like, yeah, could grind glass up in

1:00:11

my mouth fine enough to where it's back

1:00:13

to sand. And then it's so easy to

1:00:15

just cut. Slice up your cows. So you're

1:00:17

doing it and you're not bleeding. When you

1:00:19

eat glass, wow. But it's something I don't

1:00:21

recommend at all. I always tell magicians, if

1:00:23

you want to get into magic, do card

1:00:26

tricks. And ironically, that's the stuff people like

1:00:28

the most, right? The other stuff is... I'm

1:00:30

obsessed with finding things out that seem impossible

1:00:32

and then trying to figure out how to

1:00:34

do those things and combine them with magic.

1:00:36

For the first time, I'm showing the process

1:00:38

of that learning curve. I'm showing what I

1:00:40

normally would never share. And by having the

1:00:43

real part of it exist with magic, it

1:00:45

kind of stops the audience or the viewer

1:00:47

or the spectator from just writing it all

1:00:49

off right away, which is what you said

1:00:51

you didn't like about some of the magic

1:00:53

that you've seen is like immediately like, sure,

1:00:55

what's the trick? Maybe I should tell you

1:00:57

this at the very beginning. I don't like

1:01:00

magic. Monica loves magic.

1:01:02

And we have debates about all

1:01:04

that. And I've gone with her

1:01:06

numerous times to see. Magic I've even

1:01:08

hired a magician for her birthday

1:01:10

one time. Yeah, I've had two

1:01:12

magician birthday parties as an adult

1:01:14

Yeah, and you'd like more I

1:01:16

love it. I went to a

1:01:18

really good Magic show in New York

1:01:20

now. I don't remember his name.

1:01:22

I'll see wind No, it was

1:01:24

at the nomad hotel. Oh, Dan

1:01:26

White. Yes. Oh my god,

1:01:28

it was so good. I cried Do you

1:01:31

get on with other magicians? Yeah. Yeah,

1:01:33

Dan used to work with me. He's great.

1:01:35

I have to say most Most of

1:01:37

my best friends are magicians. That's who I

1:01:39

spend all my time I put you

1:01:41

guys in a category with really great guitar

1:01:43

soloists, which is one only can get

1:01:45

this skill by being in their bedroom by

1:01:47

themselves for very long periods of time.

1:01:49

That's true. think that's a personality type. But

1:01:51

also magic's a little different because the

1:01:53

performative part of it is just like you're

1:01:55

always doing magic. If you do it

1:01:57

to the same person over and over, they're

1:01:59

going to get bored. So you're always

1:02:01

looking for new people. The plane flying heroes

1:02:04

do magic. to half the flight. How

1:02:06

lucky to be on a fucking flight and

1:02:08

David Blaine's on it. But people

1:02:10

say, oh, do you feel bad saying no?

1:02:12

I'm like, no, I mean, this is how I

1:02:14

practice. This is how I improve. This is

1:02:16

how I'm constantly training. And this is the part

1:02:18

of the process that I like the most

1:02:20

is that constant tweaking, learning, changing, modifying,

1:02:22

adding things. Have you? Thought about what

1:02:24

the shelf life of your own skill

1:02:26

set is. Do you think there'll be

1:02:29

a peak and a decline like all

1:02:31

trades or no? Is this one impervious

1:02:33

to decline? Do you think you're getting

1:02:35

better? Yeah, I do think I keep

1:02:37

learning more and more and I have

1:02:39

two of my favorite tricks I've done

1:02:41

for the last 30 years and just

1:02:43

recently a few weeks ago I realized

1:02:45

that you can combine the two and

1:02:47

how did I not realize that for

1:02:49

30 years, these two things combined beautifully.

1:02:51

Now, one of my favorite magicians, he

1:02:54

was doing this incredible trick that I

1:02:56

saw him do when I was 18.

1:02:58

It was just a card trick, but

1:03:00

it was so good. He did it

1:03:02

in front of a small room of

1:03:04

people that I was laughing and crying

1:03:06

at the same time. And he stopped

1:03:08

doing magic because he said he was

1:03:10

doing that trick that he's done probably

1:03:12

a hundred thousand times. Who knows how

1:03:14

many times. And in the middle of

1:03:17

it, he forgot what he was doing.

1:03:19

his brain couldn't process anymore, so he

1:03:21

stopped doing magic at that point. It

1:03:23

would be a cognitive thing, probably. Not

1:03:25

a physical thing. Maybe, yeah. Who knows?

1:03:27

What seems interesting is, overnight, so

1:03:29

many people are attracted to you

1:03:31

in this very intense way that's not

1:03:33

anyone else's normal experience like in

1:03:35

high school. Fiona Apple, who I'm watching

1:03:37

her video over and over again,

1:03:39

I know is dating this magician. And

1:03:41

I go, wow, she could

1:03:43

be with Leonardo DiCaprio. She could be

1:03:45

with any movie star and she's with

1:03:48

this magician. She's just brilliant the way

1:03:50

she. and the way she absorbs information.

1:03:52

Were you even yourself a little shocked

1:03:54

with like, oh wow, I'm dating Fiona

1:03:56

Apple? I mean, I was lucky and

1:03:58

amazed to be around, but I had

1:04:00

met her before and I was blown

1:04:02

away by her and thought she was

1:04:04

incredible. Yeah, we all were. But I

1:04:07

met her before she was famous. Oh,

1:04:09

before she was famous. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:04:11

yeah. Oh, isn't she a California person?

1:04:13

She was. She grew up in Venice,

1:04:15

but not anymore. I still speak to

1:04:17

her. Oh, you do? She's one person

1:04:19

I've never met that I am still

1:04:21

dying to meet. Yeah, she's amazing. One

1:04:23

time I heard you on Stern. You've

1:04:26

done Stern several times, yeah? Two maybe.

1:04:28

Okay, well then I've heard both of

1:04:30

them. Okay. I've tried in the past

1:04:32

to explain it to Monica and I

1:04:34

really can't. But I thought the most

1:04:36

fascinating part of the interview is you

1:04:38

are talking about being able to convince

1:04:40

people you can read their mind. cold

1:04:42

reading, which is just generalizing kind of

1:04:45

information. Making high probabilistic guesses. Yeah, I

1:04:47

think that psychology applied to psychics or

1:04:49

tarot card readers. I think what they're

1:04:51

doing is they're estimating what's normal, what

1:04:53

you represent, and then kind of feeling

1:04:55

out that information. You look at

1:04:57

me and you're like, 50 year old

1:04:59

white guy, I bet he likes World

1:05:02

War Two documentaries. And I'm like, that's

1:05:04

right, I do. But also you could

1:05:06

go into the characteristics of a person

1:05:08

as well, what they've been through, what

1:05:10

struggles they've been through. How did you

1:05:12

learn this? I was so fascinated when

1:05:14

I was listening to you talk about

1:05:16

that. I guess 20 years There was

1:05:19

a book that I read, which was

1:05:21

called King of the Cold Readers, the

1:05:23

fundamental book of information on how to

1:05:25

read people. It's so old now, it's

1:05:27

kind of outdated. Now the way to

1:05:29

access information is just so incredible. It's

1:05:31

such a different game now. Because of

1:05:33

the internet? Just the techniques that are

1:05:36

employed are incredible. But I'd love to

1:05:38

do magic, but you might have to

1:05:40

sit here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay,

1:05:42

go ahead, go. We'll get Monica there.

1:05:44

I'll show you the new. I was

1:05:46

talking about if you're listening and you

1:05:48

want to see the magic that's coming

1:05:50

next and you can go over to

1:05:53

YouTube and watch magic tricks with David

1:05:55

Blaine and Monica and maybe me Stay

1:05:57

tuned for more armchair expert if you

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no matter where you are on your

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financial journey. Into it Credit Karma. Karma you

1:07:27

can count on. At

1:07:30

24, I lost my narrative,

1:07:32

or rather it was stolen from

1:07:34

me. And the Monica Lewinsky

1:07:36

that my friends and family knew

1:07:38

was usurped by false narratives,

1:07:41

callous jokes, and politics. I

1:07:43

would define reclaiming as to

1:07:45

take back what was yours. Something

1:07:47

you possess is lost or

1:07:49

stolen. And ultimately, you triumph in

1:07:51

finding it again. So I

1:07:53

think listeners can expect me to

1:07:55

be chatting with folks both

1:07:57

recognizable and unrecognizable names about the

1:07:59

way that people have navigated

1:08:01

roads to triumph. My hope

1:08:04

is that people will finish an episode

1:08:06

of reclaiming and feel like they filled

1:08:08

their tank up. They connected with the

1:08:10

people that I'm talking to and leave

1:08:12

with maybe some nuggets that help them

1:08:14

feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming

1:08:16

with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app

1:08:18

or wherever you get your podcasts. You

1:08:21

can listen to Reclaiming early and

1:08:23

ad -free right now by joining Wondery

1:08:25

Plus in the Wondery app or on

1:08:27

Apple Podcasts. Well,

1:08:35

David Blaine, this was incredible. It was

1:08:37

so fun. Your modern day Houdini, we got

1:08:40

to talk to you. Everyone watch, do

1:08:42

not attempt. I want to say, we talked

1:08:44

about how gory is. It's a fucking

1:08:46

awesome show. It's beautifully shot. It's a very,

1:08:48

very cool show. I think this is

1:08:50

going to be wildly popular. We worked three

1:08:52

years on it, and we all worked.

1:08:54

around the clock on it and everybody was

1:08:57

amazing. We had the best team and

1:08:59

we all gave it our all. Yeah, that's

1:09:01

very obvious. And also when we went

1:09:03

into these places, I wanted to show not

1:09:05

like the fancy beaches and resorts, I

1:09:07

wanted to show the things that most people

1:09:09

never get to see. So we went

1:09:12

into places that nobody would go or would

1:09:14

want to go or things nobody would

1:09:16

want to do and showed the beauty in

1:09:18

what they do. And all the things

1:09:20

that you're seeing, it's like they've really put

1:09:22

their thousands of hours into those feats

1:09:24

of what they're doing, that's why to me

1:09:27

it's magic. It's because of the invisible

1:09:29

work that goes in that you don't equate

1:09:31

for. You don't think about the amount

1:09:33

of work and faith and diligence and practice

1:09:35

and failure and repeating that they put

1:09:37

into it to make it look so simple.

1:09:40

And so that's why I think this

1:09:42

is kind of like a discovery of

1:09:44

people. They're constantly a student. They never

1:09:46

see themselves as masters. They're searching for

1:09:48

the next learning curve, the next thing,

1:09:50

the next challenge. And they keep pushing

1:09:52

themselves. And it was pretty amazing to

1:09:54

have a glimpse into that world. Yeah,

1:09:56

it's admirable. It's really neat. Yeah, you're

1:09:59

looking at someone who has funneled thousands

1:10:01

of hours into five minutes, eight minutes,

1:10:03

nine minutes. And you go, wow, they

1:10:05

just funneled it and refined it and

1:10:07

pointed it. And it's very cool to

1:10:09

see that. Do you have a favorite

1:10:11

episode? For me, it's more like the

1:10:13

characters. We don't show this, but I'm

1:10:15

like in tears every time. I'm so

1:10:17

excited and I'm so amazed by everybody

1:10:19

that I'm meeting. And I would say

1:10:21

it's not a favorite episode. The people

1:10:23

you love. Oh, yeah. Things that I

1:10:25

saw and witnessed and was given an

1:10:27

insider into their world. So it's like

1:10:29

there's so many things in each thing.

1:10:31

Ramesh, the guy who built his fire

1:10:33

act, but he's a rickshaw driver by

1:10:35

David. His passion is fire. David puts

1:10:37

fire all over his head. That part.

1:10:39

Beautiful. Yeah, and I've seen him before

1:10:41

and I was blown away by his

1:10:43

acts So then going and meeting him

1:10:45

real time and then having him give

1:10:47

me a like crash course. Yeah. All

1:10:50

right Well, good luck with the show.

1:10:52

It's truly great I can tell you

1:10:54

guys spent so much time on it

1:10:56

and it's a pleasure meeting you. Yeah,

1:10:58

thanks for coming. Thank you. Yay. Now

1:11:00

you guys want to see the real

1:11:02

magic? Hi

1:11:11

there, this is Hermione and Hermione. Do

1:11:13

you like that? You're gonna love the

1:11:15

fact that. Miss Melinda. Okay,

1:11:18

I have an update. Something

1:11:21

wild happened yesterday. Oh

1:11:23

my goodness. After we worked?

1:11:25

Mm -hmm. I

1:11:27

went somewhere, I

1:11:29

won't say where. Okay. I

1:11:32

went somewhere

1:11:34

and I basically

1:11:37

witnessed this

1:11:39

person I don't know. I

1:11:41

thought he was just very, very, very

1:11:43

drunk. Uh -huh. But then

1:11:45

I was told that maybe

1:11:47

he was on, like, a

1:11:49

drug by someone who could

1:11:51

tell. Okay. And it was

1:11:53

so scary. Oh. Like, he

1:11:55

was, like, falling. This other girl was

1:11:57

like, that was really scary. Seen

1:11:59

this person there before. Uh

1:12:02

-huh. And I do sometimes

1:12:04

wonder, in general,

1:12:07

like... What's happening? Yeah, okay,

1:12:10

but nothing has ever

1:12:12

been this extreme and it

1:12:14

was really Really crazy

1:12:16

were they vocally? Yeah,

1:12:18

yes, what kind of stuff

1:12:21

were they saying? I mean they

1:12:23

were on the phone and

1:12:25

kind of just Screaming on the

1:12:27

phone, but just like stumbling

1:12:29

around the whole place and falling

1:12:31

down like it was What

1:12:38

time of day? Exactly.

1:12:40

The day after we recorded, so

1:12:42

like 3 .30 on a Tuesday.

1:12:45

Yeah. Oh boy. It

1:12:47

was really scary. Uh

1:12:50

-huh. And then

1:12:52

my friend went up

1:12:55

and said to

1:12:57

the manager, just,

1:12:59

hey, you need to

1:13:01

keep an eye on this person, really

1:13:03

doesn't seem okay. Yeah. And...

1:13:06

manager said, do you know

1:13:08

who he is? Uh -huh.

1:13:12

And then what does that, though, mean?

1:13:14

Exactly. Yeah. And that, to me,

1:13:16

is what I've just been sitting with.

1:13:18

Like, so... And obviously, I can't

1:13:20

give too many details, but this is

1:13:22

a person that they... I don't

1:13:24

want to lose, I guess, as a

1:13:26

client. Maybe, or

1:13:28

they don't the subtext,

1:13:30

or was the subtext like,

1:13:33

you know, that's so -and -so. They're a fuck

1:13:35

up. Oh, no, I don't

1:13:37

think it was that. Okay, because

1:13:39

that's a vibe where we're from,

1:13:42

where you'd go, oh, that's Mike,

1:13:44

he's a fuck, you know, he's

1:13:46

a, he's a lush. Look

1:13:48

the other way. Yeah, let him do

1:13:50

But that would be at like a certain

1:13:52

type of bar or something, you could

1:13:54

do that, but not here. Not a nice

1:13:56

place. Yeah. And it

1:13:58

like, it was scary to

1:14:01

me, it was scary to another. like

1:14:03

it was causing concern.

1:14:06

And so this idea that like, do

1:14:08

you know who that is was

1:14:11

very upsetting to me. Cause I was

1:14:13

like, so you're going to

1:14:15

let him die because you don't want

1:14:17

to say anything. It was really scary.

1:14:19

And then my friend was like, I

1:14:21

don't care who it is. I mean,

1:14:23

he knew who it was, but he

1:14:26

was like, I don't care who

1:14:28

it is. People are scared. It's very

1:14:30

obvious. I know. I

1:14:32

know. But I

1:14:34

was really glad he said that. Yeah,

1:14:36

yeah. But I think it does

1:14:38

point out, no one

1:14:40

needs to be sympathetic to an

1:14:42

addict. They don't need to be

1:14:44

sympathetic to anyone famous. They don't

1:14:46

need to be sympathetic to someone

1:14:48

with means. But I will argue, it

1:14:51

can be harder for those people

1:14:53

to get sober because they don't have

1:14:55

the consequences. There's so many consequences that

1:14:57

would normally making

1:14:59

reevaluate and like losing

1:15:01

friendships. Well, people with status

1:15:04

and means can be pretty, the

1:15:06

people won't - Push back. They

1:15:08

won't abandon them because they want

1:15:10

to be a part of the

1:15:12

status. I know. Yeah, places

1:15:14

will put up with them

1:15:16

because of whatever. And I

1:15:18

just, I do wonder sometime, I

1:15:20

worked with a famous super talented

1:15:22

dude who was so fucked up

1:15:24

on this movie. And

1:15:26

I I hated him at one point

1:15:29

in the movie and then you

1:15:31

know, he did this fucking thing where

1:15:33

he He made me laugh so

1:15:35

hard. He's so powerful. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:15:37

yeah. He made me laugh so

1:15:39

fucking hard. He was assigned a cop

1:15:41

on set. He had to have

1:15:43

a cop with him set. Oh, my

1:15:45

God. And so

1:15:47

he was running through the store and

1:15:49

the police officer was chasing him

1:15:51

and he was screaming, chase me, chase

1:15:54

me. Oh, God, yes. Yeah, yeah,

1:15:56

it's okay. And I was like, I

1:15:58

had been just seething about this

1:16:00

person for like three weeks. And then

1:16:02

all of a sudden I was

1:16:04

like, Oh my God, this is the

1:16:06

fucking funniest thing I've ever seen.

1:16:08

Yeah. And it really disarmed me. And

1:16:10

I was like, yeah, good luck

1:16:12

to him getting sober, because he has

1:16:14

a superpower. He can win you

1:16:16

back immediately. I know. I feel really

1:16:19

freaked out by it. Yeah. I

1:16:21

bet you weren't the only one. You

1:16:23

do get into your personal stuff.

1:16:25

do, I do. like, addict stuff is

1:16:27

very scary to you and for

1:16:29

good reason. Yeah, and I don't know

1:16:31

if it's addict, but it's more

1:16:33

like... This deeper that person might die

1:16:35

right and I might see it

1:16:37

or I might have like been not

1:16:39

a part of it But kind

1:16:41

of a part of it sounded the

1:16:43

alarm. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, it reminds

1:16:46

me of when I was in high

1:16:48

school and I went to the

1:16:50

mall with Callie and We saw this

1:16:52

like weird thing happen where this Woman

1:16:55

was wheeling her husband in a

1:16:57

wheelchair, but then like something was happening

1:16:59

with the woman and the guy

1:17:01

got out and the woman got in

1:17:03

the wheelchair and it was like

1:17:05

Yeah, they had to switch I Didn't

1:17:07

know she was having a heart

1:17:09

attack and of course like you know

1:17:11

the people were running out of

1:17:13

the stores like hell Yeah, and I

1:17:15

thought about I'm I still have

1:17:17

that memory and I thought about it

1:17:19

for weeks like it's almost OCD It

1:17:23

becomes an obsession. Right,

1:17:25

you just can't stop thinking about

1:17:27

it. It keeps popping up into your

1:17:29

head. Yeah. I don't know

1:17:31

why that wheelchair fiasco did remind me

1:17:33

of, do you

1:17:35

remember we were working in New York

1:17:37

and we were at the Carlisle

1:17:39

Hotel? I'll be there in a couple

1:17:42

of days. And we would have

1:17:44

to walk every day to the parking

1:17:46

garage. And there was this dude

1:17:48

with cerebral palsy. Oh yeah. And

1:17:51

he like was shuffling down

1:17:53

the street and it was

1:17:55

like so heartbreaking. Yeah. And

1:17:58

I'm really bad and this woman

1:18:00

gave him money. And

1:18:02

then the woman turned the corner and then

1:18:04

he started walking normal. Oh, no. And

1:18:06

I threw my cup to him right through

1:18:08

my coffee. He threw a fucking coffee

1:18:10

out of me. We were going to beat

1:18:12

the shit out of him. He's sick

1:18:15

motherfucker. That is so low. Yeah.

1:18:19

It was a show like you

1:18:21

would never seen before. You'd wanna

1:18:23

cry when you see this guy.

1:18:25

At the beginning, I'm like, I'm

1:18:27

probably gonna give this guy a

1:18:29

buck. No,

1:18:32

I'm going the other way. I'm

1:18:34

23 and I'm at you

1:18:36

deceptive. What is the money

1:18:38

actually cured? You don't

1:18:40

know. Oh, fuck. Yeah, you didn't think

1:18:42

about that. I didn't think about it.

1:18:44

It is possible that he was just

1:18:46

$5 away from a cure. Yeah, you

1:18:48

never know. You know, I

1:18:50

had a similar, when I had my

1:18:52

bar, there was crazy situations at

1:18:54

my bar, so it wasn't this place

1:18:56

and it wasn't a nice place,

1:18:58

but things still could get escalated to

1:19:00

that point where I'd have to

1:19:02

make the decision and not a, famous

1:19:04

person spending a bunch of money

1:19:06

and bringing all of his people, but

1:19:09

like a drug dealer that was

1:19:11

responsible for a lot of money being

1:19:13

thrown around in there and this

1:19:15

and that, and then thought he fucking

1:19:17

ran the place. Like

1:19:19

a whale at a casino.

1:19:21

Yeah, but then once

1:19:23

everyone is so uncomfortable in

1:19:26

the situation, you

1:19:28

can only let it go

1:19:30

so much and you have like,

1:19:33

Guess what they come back after

1:19:35

you kick them out, right? When

1:19:38

you have that business, yeah,

1:19:41

you gotta fucking take a stand

1:19:43

Exactly, I mean that buddy

1:19:45

you're driving away. Yeah, you got

1:19:47

everyone else the trade -off like

1:19:49

yeah, when does the when

1:19:51

do I lose money after this

1:19:53

person? Yeah, what's the line

1:19:55

that you draw at a bar

1:19:57

or something because yeah people

1:19:59

are people are there a little

1:20:02

fucked up. I mean that's

1:20:04

the point of the place, you

1:20:06

know, so it's... It's highly

1:20:08

regional, though. Like, you... I've rarely,

1:20:10

rarely, rarely have I seen

1:20:12

anyone in LA at a bar

1:20:14

or a club that is

1:20:16

like asleep on a table, throwing

1:20:18

up on the dance floor.

1:20:21

Yeah. That is much more

1:20:23

common in Michigan and I can say

1:20:25

also Chicago like if you go

1:20:27

in Chicago you see people like falling

1:20:29

through tables Yeah, yeah, I think

1:20:31

it's really like regionally cultural it also

1:20:33

just it depends on the place

1:20:35

itself Also, what do you do you

1:20:37

tell them to leave and what

1:20:40

if they drive home? Well,

1:20:42

there's only so much you

1:20:44

can do If they're on a

1:20:46

motorcycle you'll wear a helmet.

1:20:48

Yeah Dumbass. Right

1:20:52

fast, but right safe. Yeah.

1:20:55

Yeah. Anyway. As fast

1:20:58

as you can. Yeah. Yeah, we're

1:21:00

on, like, such opposite ends of the

1:21:02

spectrum with our comfort level with

1:21:04

that stuff. Yeah. Just, I think,

1:21:06

from exposure. Yeah. Yeah,

1:21:08

probably. I mean, my

1:21:10

friend didn't feel the way I

1:21:13

felt. He wasn't worried like he

1:21:15

wasn't like that person's gonna die

1:21:17

like I was right He was

1:21:19

more like this can't this is

1:21:21

an unacceptable thing to be happening

1:21:23

at this establishment. I love all

1:21:25

the little adventures you and Jess

1:21:27

get into I really do because

1:21:30

there was like that there was

1:21:32

the episode with someone saying Anna

1:21:35

Someone's so gay. Oh, yeah, and

1:21:37

then just had to get involved

1:21:39

but he didn't. But he does,

1:21:41

but he does. I know. I

1:21:43

know. Little mini adventures all the

1:21:45

time. funny duo too. You're one

1:21:47

feet tall, he's eight feet tall.

1:21:49

I know. I think a

1:21:51

lot of people think we're together. And

1:21:54

in some ways we are, I guess. I

1:21:56

think of it as like the cartoon with the

1:21:58

really little dog and the big dog that

1:22:00

are friends. And the big

1:22:02

dogs always, they're little dogs picking fights

1:22:04

and being a mouthy and then

1:22:06

the big dogs sometimes. Yeah. Well, I

1:22:09

actually, I brought you up at, so

1:22:11

we left to go to dinner and

1:22:13

it was really like, I

1:22:15

was, I was not, yeah, I was

1:22:17

frazzled exactly because of everything. And so I

1:22:19

was feeling a little like, I

1:22:21

could tell that I was getting

1:22:24

annoyed. But it was because of this

1:22:26

other thing. I just like didn't

1:22:28

feel good. Yeah, so I had to

1:22:30

tell myself like don't Take it

1:22:32

out on Jess like don't take this

1:22:34

feeling out on him right now

1:22:36

Yeah easiest person for me to take

1:22:38

it out on so don't do

1:22:40

that and I I feel like I

1:22:42

I didn't but then we got

1:22:44

to the restaurant and the

1:22:46

server was so amazing, like so

1:22:48

nice, so awesome. And

1:22:50

Jess was just being like his like

1:22:52

Gregorio, he was just being as Gregorio's

1:22:54

self and being funny and making jokes.

1:22:56

And I was like, why

1:22:59

can't you just

1:23:01

not have to do

1:23:03

that? Like why

1:23:06

can't you just say

1:23:08

thanks instead of

1:23:10

doing this whole show?

1:23:14

And then, and I

1:23:16

looked at him

1:23:18

and I said, it's

1:23:20

so interesting that

1:23:22

I am obviously, I

1:23:25

am attracted, drawn

1:23:27

to people who can't

1:23:29

stop themselves. putting

1:23:32

on a show. That's

1:23:34

right. me. I leave the

1:23:36

house, it's showtime. Yes,

1:23:38

there are so many times we're

1:23:40

sitting in here and I'm

1:23:42

like, why are you not stopping?

1:23:44

Yes, yes, yes. And it's

1:23:46

the same thing with him. And

1:23:49

it's clear that it's me

1:23:51

that needs or likes it. Yeah.

1:23:53

Even though on the surface,

1:23:55

I don't. Yeah. It's weird. That

1:23:57

is interesting. I'm thinking,

1:23:59

of course, of the time I also

1:24:01

was putting on a show. Because sometimes you're

1:24:04

in and sometimes you're out, right? Sure. Like

1:24:06

the time in New York City. What?

1:24:08

I just tap out. Like, I like

1:24:10

it for a second, but both of

1:24:12

you sometimes... but remember my suitcase

1:24:14

bit in New York, which is probably

1:24:16

the most extreme and obnoxious bit I've

1:24:19

ever done. That was funny to me.

1:24:21

And you loved it the whole time.

1:24:23

I had a roll on bag, or maybe

1:24:25

we even had like a recording gear.

1:24:28

Maybe. Because we were going around the city

1:24:30

and interviewing people. Yeah, I had wheels.

1:24:32

In any... A street wear on that had

1:24:34

a slight decline. I would let

1:24:36

the bag go, and then I would be

1:24:38

screaming, my bag, my bag. And I'd be

1:24:40

chasing it, but the bag wasn't going very

1:24:42

fast. And I would let it like go

1:24:44

between people. And every single

1:24:46

block I would like run and

1:24:49

scream, my bag, my bag, my

1:24:51

bag, my bag. And then

1:24:53

I'd look back and gonna be like half

1:24:55

a block away laughing really hard. So I

1:24:57

just kept doing think that was funny. I

1:24:59

don't know what the But that was really

1:25:01

extra. If you're just walking

1:25:03

on the street and some guy's like,

1:25:05

my bag, maybe he's chasing a

1:25:07

bag that clearly he can catch. Yeah,

1:25:09

I know. I don't really know.

1:25:11

Well, he does silly things like that

1:25:13

that don't. It's when

1:25:15

it involves other people. Yeah,

1:25:18

maybe there's more exploration to

1:25:20

get like really granular about what,

1:25:22

when does it tip for

1:25:24

you? What is the exact thing?

1:25:26

This is admittedly annoying. Like

1:25:29

admittedly annoying, but I think you

1:25:31

enjoy this or you don't like Aaron

1:25:33

and I lived for We would

1:25:35

put on Aaron would put on his

1:25:37

baseball pants from sixth grade baseball

1:25:39

and a half shirt that had a

1:25:41

pony on it that was yellow

1:25:43

that Carrie got me and then I

1:25:45

would be in an insane outfit

1:25:48

and we would go to White

1:25:50

Castle. It was showtime. Oh, White

1:25:52

Castle. And we had like a pipe.

1:25:54

We had chewing tobacco. We

1:25:56

had playing cards. We had a radio.

1:25:59

Yeah. And we would really just go,

1:26:01

let's go be as weird as

1:26:03

possible at this White Castle. Right. And

1:26:05

we just enjoyed it so much. And

1:26:07

I think you do or

1:26:09

you don't enjoy that kind of

1:26:12

thing. Well, oh my God,

1:26:14

this is back to yesterday's fact

1:26:16

check or last week's fact

1:26:18

check. with the three of us

1:26:20

were ultimately, I think, maybe

1:26:22

I feel like, why do you get

1:26:24

to do that? Ah, here

1:26:26

we go. Here we go, this

1:26:28

is that's what it is. Yes, because you

1:26:30

were kind of trying to... I had to. That's

1:26:32

right. I had no option. There was no

1:26:34

option for me to be like, my bag! Oh

1:26:37

no! Oh, the

1:26:39

money you have to admit, we don't

1:26:41

know. I know, you're right. We don't

1:26:43

know. But I definitely understand how you

1:26:45

were like, I'm just trying

1:26:47

to not get fucked with and

1:26:49

called out and pointed at. Being

1:26:51

a weirdo is like the last

1:26:53

thing could to wear sixth grade

1:26:55

clothes and a fucking, I would

1:26:57

wear the crazy hat that the

1:26:59

Chinese people wear when they're picking

1:27:01

rice. You know, I got it

1:27:04

at a Salvation Army. was like

1:27:06

three feet wide and he's smoking

1:27:08

a pipe. And I just, it

1:27:10

was so fun because from my

1:27:12

perspective, there's something really

1:27:14

fun about like, Oh, here are

1:27:16

the rules of life. But

1:27:19

who's this say, what if you're not

1:27:21

participating in those rules? And they're not like,

1:27:23

it's not like we're pushing people or

1:27:25

anything. No, I know, you're not hurting anyone.

1:27:27

It's just like, oh, you're supposed to

1:27:29

look a certain way. Well, let's see if

1:27:31

you don't look that way. It's just

1:27:33

kind of like wakes you up in a

1:27:35

way that I find, I have always

1:27:37

found really, Carrie was very much that way.

1:27:39

We would go into seven, 11s and

1:27:41

we would have fake fights and stuff. Yeah,

1:27:43

like we would sit. at

1:27:45

the restaurant and what you're supposed to

1:27:47

do is eat your food, but we'd

1:27:49

be going. Oh, God.

1:27:53

See, you say that's not hurting people,

1:27:55

but I think it is. We

1:27:57

did some stuff - That's disturbing. You're

1:28:00

right. You're right.

1:28:02

We did definitely ruin some

1:28:04

peoples, but I gotta tell

1:28:06

you, Monica, I do think I'm objective

1:28:08

about this. We amused. More. Sure, I agree.

1:28:10

More people were really laughing at their

1:28:12

boots, looking at us, trying to wonder, are

1:28:14

these guys like, are they gotten out

1:28:16

of a hospital? Right. Like, are they on,

1:28:18

are the people looking for these too?

1:28:20

Why don't they have so much stuff? And

1:28:24

we've gotten airing up punched over

1:28:26

at once. Oh yeah, that was for

1:28:28

making noises. Yeah. Once

1:28:30

in a while, it doesn't work out. But

1:28:32

for the most part, it does. It's a

1:28:34

high -wire pack. When it's

1:28:36

working, it's... Yeah. It's really

1:28:38

fun. And I think it's...

1:28:41

It's just a huge bonding thing. It's like

1:28:43

some expression that like I myself can't

1:28:45

go sit at White Castle with the huge

1:28:47

hat on and all this stuff and

1:28:49

make noises I would be. Well, you probably

1:28:51

wouldn't chase your suitcase without Monica there.

1:28:54

I want it, I want it. That's true.

1:28:56

There's like this declaration that like all

1:28:58

these people might think I'm crazy, but because

1:29:00

you know, and this is for you

1:29:02

and Aaron and I's was for each other,

1:29:04

there's a very bonding thing about that.

1:29:06

Yeah, that makes sense. Like as long as

1:29:08

I have your approval. I'm

1:29:11

willing to throw everyone

1:29:13

else's away. And again, it's

1:29:15

very indulgent and selfish, I get it.

1:29:17

I can admit it. But it was

1:29:19

also, I do promise it was highly

1:29:22

amusing to most people. People thought we

1:29:24

were funny. I'm sure they did. Stay

1:29:27

tuned for more

1:29:30

armchair expert if you

1:29:32

dare. What if

1:29:34

your mind could trick your

1:29:36

body into feeling sick or even

1:29:38

worse? In Hysterical, I investigate

1:29:40

the bizarre medical mystery that unfolds

1:29:42

in a high school in

1:29:44

Upstate New York. It starts with

1:29:46

one girl developing strange, violent

1:29:48

symptoms, and then another, then

1:29:51

another. Rumors begin to

1:29:53

swirl. Is it something in the water,

1:29:55

inside the school, or is it

1:29:57

all in their heads? Hysterical

1:29:59

is my for answers, and along

1:30:01

the way, I uncover surprising

1:30:03

connections to unexplained incidents around the

1:30:05

world. Events that challenge everything

1:30:07

we think we know about our

1:30:09

bodies, and our minds. Named

1:30:11

Podcast of the Year at the

1:30:14

Ambies, hysterical is a mind -bending,

1:30:16

unforgettable ride. Binge all episodes

1:30:18

right now, exclusively and ad -free

1:30:20

on Wondery Plus. Start your free

1:30:22

trial of Wondery Plus in

1:30:24

the Wondery app or on Apple

1:30:26

Podcasts. I'm

1:30:32

going to change gears, but Aaron and I

1:30:34

have a favorite restaurant. We went to it

1:30:36

last night with old friends that happened to

1:30:38

be in town from Detroit. Oh, fun. Who

1:30:40

witnessed many of these outfits. They're fully functional

1:30:42

adults with a business now, and it's wonderful.

1:30:44

It worked out for everyone. But

1:30:47

this happens one in four or

1:30:49

five times I eat at this restaurant. Or

1:30:52

I eat. I go hard. By the way,

1:30:54

I was thinking about what it was this morning,

1:30:56

potentially. Did you eat any of the asparagus? Mm

1:30:59

-hmm. You did? OK. And

1:31:01

I haven't gone yet. Oh,

1:31:03

OK. I also had a huge

1:31:05

scoop of metamucil before we went, fiber. I knew

1:31:07

I was gonna eat a lot of steak. But

1:31:10

anyways, about four minutes after

1:31:12

we got done eating, I had to

1:31:14

pee and I'm peeing and I think

1:31:17

I have to, I gotta go sit

1:31:19

down. Yeah, I have a harness. Epic

1:31:21

harness. This is when we're

1:31:23

together, it's been like, I think

1:31:26

a 50, 50 shot. Okay, it's more

1:31:28

like one and two. Well, I mean,

1:31:30

but I know you go without me,

1:31:32

so. And you

1:31:34

don't experience it. No,

1:31:36

I'm jealous. Which is

1:31:38

crazy. Yeah, I love watching it.

1:31:40

Like, I love the, like,

1:31:42

really fast walking to the -

1:31:44

Yeah, sure, sure. Like, it's

1:31:46

about to start spraying. Yeah, yeah. So it

1:31:48

was, it was - I mean, the meal has

1:31:50

just left the table. It's just got taken

1:31:52

away. Right. Fast acting to

1:31:55

an actin. To the point where I was like,

1:31:57

oh, there is Listeria on the - Oh. but

1:31:59

not every time you go. And

1:32:02

apparently not because you ate

1:32:04