0:01

You know when you're really stressed or not

0:03

feeling so great about your life or

0:05

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0:07

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0:09

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0:11

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0:13

space makes it easy to get the

0:15

support you need. With Talk space, you

0:17

can go online, answer a few questions

0:19

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0:21

a therapist. And because you'll meet your

0:23

therapist online, you don't have to take

0:25

time off work or arrange child care.

0:27

You'll meet on your schedule, wherever you

0:29

feel most at ease. If you're depressed,

0:31

stressed, struggling with a relationship, or

0:33

if you want some counseling for

0:35

you and your partner, or just

0:37

need a little extra one-on-one support,

0:40

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80 when you go to talkspace.com.

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at talkspace.com. Save $80 with code space

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80 at talkspace.com. first, let's talk

1:01

taxes with Steven Moskowitz, the founder

1:03

and tax attorney at Moskowitz LLP. Long

1:05

time friend of the Armstrong &

1:07

Gettyshow and advisor on Matters Tax as

1:09

well. Steven, how are you? Doing

1:12

great my favorite day of the year.

1:14

Yeah, not mine. Yeah, you're the

1:16

only one but so we're you're always

1:18

brimming with the interesting tax talk

1:20

you love your job as much as

1:22

anybody in America So what's the

1:25

top of mind for you today to

1:27

communicate to the good folks? You

1:30

know, there's so much if you

1:32

haven't done your tax return by

1:34

now, don't be like in the

1:36

movies Work until midnight to get it out

1:38

go on extension. Now, the extension is extension

1:40

of time to file, not an extension of

1:42

time to pay. But if you can't pay

1:44

your taxes, don't make the

1:46

mistake of not finally turn, file

1:48

it, pay what you can, and

1:51

then you can do a monthly payment

1:53

plan. And, you know, I know in

1:55

the movies, the IRS is portrayed as

1:57

monsters. They're not, you know, like

1:59

any large group, there's always a bad apple

2:01

and there's always somebody great, but most

2:03

of them are just doing their job.

2:05

If you're reasonable with them, they'll be

2:07

reasonable for you. You can work something

2:09

out. You don't have to be afraid

2:11

of it. You can work something out.

2:13

That's what we do for people. But

2:15

the bottom line is these problems are

2:17

fixable. And I've seen over the years

2:19

so many people, they go into hiding.

2:21

They do these horrible things. They

2:23

punish themselves way worse than the

2:25

government ever would. And there's no

2:27

need for that. On the other

2:29

hand, there's so many tax benefits. If

2:32

you're a do -it -yourselfer, there's a lot of

2:34

good things to read. You might

2:36

also want to consider talking to somebody. There's

2:39

so many advantages, especially if you're

2:41

in business. You take a look at

2:43

the Fortune 500, and that's one

2:46

of the things that originally motivated me

2:48

to become a tax attorney because,

2:50

you know, as a CPA first, and

2:52

then I watched these giant corporations

2:54

making billions of dollars and legally paying

2:56

little or no taxes. And how

2:58

can that be? Our tax

3:01

law is based on two things.

3:03

One, getting money from us.

3:05

We all know about that one. But

3:07

the other one in a democracy, the

3:09

government can't order us to do things.

3:11

But they want us to do things

3:13

because it's good for the economy. So

3:15

how they get to do it, they

3:17

pay us. And that's the

3:19

secret of all these tax deductions. There's

3:21

all kinds of tax incentives. We

3:24

see simple ones like buying

3:26

a house, you get a

3:28

tax deduction for mortgage interest

3:30

in real estate taxes. You

3:32

set up a pension for

3:34

yourself. You get a tax

3:36

deduction for that. There's so

3:38

many benefits where if you

3:40

have depreciation on machinery or

3:42

buildings, there's a way to

3:44

accelerate that and get way

3:46

more. Get these huge deductions.

3:48

Another thing, to me,

3:51

the most beautiful words in

3:53

the English language are a

3:55

positive cash flow with

3:57

a tax loss. Isn't

4:00

it? i don't know

4:03

what you're like i mean i

4:05

bring it here to the eye

4:07

it's so emotional to me and

4:09

hilarious the bottom line is there's

4:11

so much there where you can

4:13

you can benefit and i mean

4:15

there's benefits for everybody it's not

4:17

just rich people it's for everybody

4:19

if you're on the lower end

4:21

of the income scale the government

4:23

gives you all kinds of benefit

4:26

for you for your kids family

4:28

members if you're on the other

4:30

end There's ways that you can

4:32

deduct your yachts and everything in

4:34

between the tax law has something

4:36

for everybody in it. It's worth

4:38

it knowing it study or go

4:40

to somebody does there's just so

4:42

much there and yet so many

4:44

people treat it with despair and

4:47

it's horrible. It's not you

4:49

have to take a look at all

4:51

the good things are there there there

4:53

you just have to know about so

4:55

we talk a lot about you've talked

4:57

a lot about how the complexity of

4:59

the tax code i mean if if

5:01

we're starting. the tax code today, nobody

5:03

would want to end up with what

5:05

we currently have, even though it's so

5:07

hard to change. But like when you

5:09

started many years ago, how many pages

5:11

or rules were there compared to today? Oh,

5:15

you know, I remember when I

5:17

was in grad school, the professor actually

5:19

went over that and he couldn't

5:21

even back further, where he basically showed

5:23

us with his hands. He said when

5:25

he started in tax, Basically

5:27

the tax law wasn't and he opens his

5:29

fingers to show us now. He said today

5:31

this is back when I was in school.

5:33

He opened his arms. He said that's not

5:35

wide enough. And what happens is it's not

5:38

just the law. It's the interpretations. A

5:40

lot of what we do is

5:42

we argue over what did the

5:44

legislators and their infinite wisdom provide

5:46

for us. And oftentimes the judges

5:48

can't agree. And so many times

5:50

we'll do a settlement because both

5:52

sides say, well, we don't really

5:54

know what they meant. So

5:56

rather than have the judge decide

5:58

let's make a deal and again

6:00

you see judges disagreeing you say.

6:02

Appeals judges disagreeing with trial judges

6:04

it's almost like nobody knows it's

6:06

a grand mystery one of the

6:09

mysteries of life and going through

6:11

this i think it really is

6:13

there i mean i know how

6:15

excited about the actual but it

6:17

really is that the mysteries of

6:19

life and in real life. It's

6:21

not a black and white mathematical

6:23

one plus one equals two. That's

6:25

the right answer. It's

6:27

like going into the museum and looking

6:29

at the paintings and say, what's the

6:31

most beautiful painting here? It's a matter

6:33

of interpretation. And there's so much of

6:35

a tax fall like that. What

6:37

do legislators mean? And

6:39

when you argue tax laws, we know things too. You try to

6:41

throw it. What did they mean? When

6:53

you're really stressed or not feeling so

6:55

great about your life or about yourself,

6:57

talking to someone who understands can really

6:59

help. But who is that person? How

7:01

do you find them? Where do you

7:03

even where do you even start? Talk space.

7:06

Talk space makes it easy to get

7:08

the support you need. With Talk space,

7:10

you can go online, answer a few

7:12

questions about your preferences, and be matched

7:14

with a therapist. And because you'll meet

7:17

your therapist online, you don't have to

7:19

take time off work or arrange child

7:21

care, you'll meet on your schedule, wherever

7:23

you feel most at ease. If you're

7:25

depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or

7:27

if you want some counseling for you

7:30

and your partner, or just need a

7:32

little extra one-on on one-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on- Plus, TalkSpace

7:04

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7:06

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7:34

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7:37

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7:39

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7:41

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7:43

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7:54

So is it this way that the problem

7:57

with all of those other

7:59

ones is they're deriving ethics

8:01

or deriving our... Recognition

8:20

People say, can I deduct the home office?

8:22

Now, in order to deduct it, the

8:24

way you do it is you say, okay,

8:28

if you use a portion

8:30

of your home exclusively for

8:32

business, you can deduct it. And

8:35

even if you got a studio apartment,

8:37

that's one room, how can you do that?

8:39

The tax court has rules. We use

8:41

a portion of that room exclusively for business.

8:43

You can do it, but you have to watch out.

8:45

There's a downside to doing it. And

8:47

the downside to doing is

8:50

it converts that portion of

8:52

your home from your principal

8:54

residence, which has all kinds

8:56

of tax benefits into business

8:58

property, which doesn't. So if

9:01

you sell the house, then

9:03

all of a sudden you learn

9:05

about things you have to give back,

9:07

like depreciation, recapture, and other

9:09

things. So if you're thinking about deducting a

9:11

home office, you can do it if

9:13

you qualify, but you may not want to.

9:16

That's interesting. I never thought about the the end

9:18

when you go to sell your house and that

9:20

that's not a house. That's an officer selling and

9:22

here's the everything that goes with that. Exactly.

9:25

So the bottom line is it's kind of

9:27

like medicine. This is a good medicine, but there's

9:29

a side effect which may or may not

9:31

affect you. So we talk about that. And

9:33

the bottom line is another

9:35

thing that's really good for the

9:37

evil is if you're an

9:39

independent contractor, you set up your

9:41

own business and then you

9:43

take Pension deductions retirement and there's

9:45

so many benefits. You get

9:48

a big tax deduction and one

9:50

the things with retirement like

9:52

we're here at is April 15th

9:54

And you say well these

9:56

are all good things for next

9:58

year, but there's some things

10:00

you can still do. Suppose you

10:02

put your return on extension

10:04

today There's many different types of

10:06

pensions Most but not all

10:08

of them provide for an

10:10

exception with tax plan because most

10:12

things with tax plan you have

10:14

to write the check by December

10:16

31st 24 deduct the 24 not

10:18

with most of the pension plans

10:20

you have up to the time

10:22

filing the return plus extension which

10:24

means suppose you put your return

10:26

on extension today that gives you half

10:28

a year to set up a

10:30

pension in 2025 fund it in

10:32

2025 and then you can elect

10:34

to deduct it from your 24

10:37

taxes so the bottom line think

10:39

about You earned money last year. You

10:41

have another six months happy year

10:43

to earn money, put it away

10:45

for yourself, and take a

10:48

deduction for last year, 24. I mean,

10:50

for me, this is just fascinating. So

10:52

that would be like a small business person

10:54

who had a really great 2024 and is getting

10:56

hammered with taxes. It can

10:58

in effect shield some of that

11:00

income from tax by putting it

11:03

in a pension plan like retroactively. Ah,

11:06

and when somebody gives you something

11:08

nice, what do you say? Thank

11:10

you. The lawyer says more, I

11:12

want more. And what

11:15

happens is with the really great

11:17

year you talked about with

11:19

the pension plans, if

11:21

you had a fantastic year, one the

11:23

things you can do, they're so

11:25

flexible, is you

11:27

can make multiple

11:29

plan year contributions in

11:31

one calendar year. and

11:35

get a much, much bigger

11:37

deduction for that year. So suppose

11:39

you were salesman or you

11:41

had something else, you had big

11:43

sales, you made a lot

11:45

of money. What you

11:47

want to do is you want to get, let's say

11:49

that was 24. You say, I'm looking at these taxes,

11:51

I hate all these taxes. So you

11:53

set up the pension plans. And by the way,

11:55

you can have multiple pension plans in the

11:57

same year. You set up multiple pension plans. and

12:00

then you make multiple plain -year contributions

12:02

in one calendar year, you get a

12:04

gigantic deduction against that fantastic year, and

12:06

that's one of the ways you don't

12:08

pay taxes on it. See, this stuff

12:11

really lives, doesn't it? And then you

12:13

end up taking it out years down

12:15

the road when you're paying it a

12:17

much lower rate, theoretically. All right, we've

12:19

got like two more minutes, Steven. Anything

12:21

else you want to squeeze in before

12:23

we let you go? Yes.

12:27

Before you send your taxes and

12:29

you really want to learn

12:31

as much as you can, either

12:33

on your own from reading

12:35

or bonus somebody that does this

12:37

because most people cheat on

12:40

their taxes. They cheat

12:42

themselves by not taking

12:44

everything to which they're entitled

12:46

in, you know, there's just

12:48

so much to the tax law.

12:50

I know it's really complex, but there's

12:52

so many benefits for you. So

12:54

the bottom line is like so many

12:56

other things in life. You get

12:58

out of it, what you put into

13:00

it, learn about it, or go

13:02

to somebody that does this for a

13:04

living, and you can really benefit.

13:06

You see there's so much difference in

13:08

people's taxes. And again, my example

13:10

is the Fortune 500. Look at

13:12

all the money they make. Look

13:15

at how little are nothing to pay

13:17

in taxes. That's not just for the

13:19

Fortune 500. That's for everybody that knows

13:21

about it. It's there for you. It's

13:23

alive. It's legal. And that's

13:25

what I do for living. And no

13:27

kidding, this stuff fascinates me, and it's so

13:29

great to be able to legally do

13:31

this. Stephen Moskowitz, Moskowitz, LLP,

13:33

longtime friend of the show. Stephen, always

13:35

a pleasure to talk to you.

13:38

It's always interesting. If you

13:40

want to talk to Stephen, one triple

13:42

eight tax deal, one triple

13:44

eight tax deal. Stephen, thanks for the time. Appreciate

13:46

it. Thanks so much. Have a great time

13:48

as always. No, got it. Now, obviously he gets

13:50

paid to do taxes. So, you know, you

13:52

would have an incentive to convince you to have

13:54

a guy, but I don't doubt that that's

13:56

true. Absolutely true that the

13:58

majority of people cheat on their taxes.

14:00

The cheating is you cheat yourself by not

14:02

taking advantage of everything. Yeah. And, and

14:05

this is, again, this is not a commercial

14:07

in any way, but, and it depends

14:09

on your financial circumstances, where you are in

14:11

your life and a hundred other things.

14:13

So, you know, it's entirely up to you,

14:15

but our experience, Jack and me as

14:17

individuals and as business partners has been, you

14:19

spend hundreds and save thousands by consulting

14:21

professionals. And maybe your situation is you'd spend

14:23

thousands and save tens of thousands. Um,

14:25

you know, again, depending on your life circumstance,

14:27

but that's been our experience. One of

14:29

my main takeaways from knowing Steven, and I

14:32

think he brought this up at a

14:34

lunch we were at with him one time

14:36

is, is the idea of, and it's

14:38

changed the way I think about things, but

14:40

like, would you, I mean, a basic

14:42

question of would you rather get, would

14:44

you rather have be received $50

14:46

,000 or $80 ,000? Well,

14:49

obviously I'd rather receive the $80 ,000. What are

14:51

the tax implications? How is the 50 ,000 coming

14:53

to you? How's the 80 ,000 coming? Is it

14:55

coming through income? Did your grandma live it

14:57

to you? Um, you know, is it a prize

14:59

you won? It's because there are different tax

15:01

implications for all these different things. You might be

15:03

better off with the 50 ,000 than the 80

15:05

,000. If it was a gift, then if it

15:07

was income, blah, blah, blah, and you always

15:09

have to look at that end of it. It

15:11

should not be that dizzying, but it is.

15:13

Right. I hope you enjoyed that. I did. I

15:15

always get something out of it. More on

15:17

the way. Stay here. When

15:27

you're really stressed or not feeling so

15:29

great about your life or about yourself,

15:31

talking to someone who understands can really

15:34

help. But who is that person? How

15:36

do you find them? Where do you

15:38

even start? Talk space. Talk space makes it

15:40

easy to get the support you need. you

15:43

can go online, answer a few questions about

15:45

your preferences, and be matched with a therapist.

15:47

And because you'll meet your therapist online, you

15:49

don't have to take time off work or

15:51

arrange child care, you'll meet on your schedule,

15:54

wherever you feel most at ease. If

15:56

you're depressed, stressed, stressed, stress, No

16:11

insurance? No problem. Now, get $80

16:13

off of your first month with

16:16

promo code space 80 when you

16:18

go to talkspace.com. Match with a

16:21

licensed therapist today at talkspace.com. Save

16:23

$80 with code space 80 at

16:25

talkspace.com. .com.