0:01

The following episode is about to talk about adult

0:03

themes, so maybe not the best

0:06

for family listening. Including my family,

0:08

please don't listen to this one, mom and dad.

0:10

Okay, that's your warning.

0:16

The most obvious aspect of clothing is

0:19

that it is, by and large,

0:22

made of cloth. And whether that cloth

0:24

is animal, vegetal, or chemical, it's

0:27

usually treated in much the same way. It's

0:29

sewn together with needle and thread. It

0:31

can be hemmed and adjusted. It can be

0:33

laundered. It can be patched. That

0:37

is what we expect from clothing made

0:39

of cloth. But I want

0:41

to examine two

0:42

big exceptions to

0:44

all the rules of clothing. Two

0:48

materials that are not cloth.

0:50

And

0:52

the first material, admittedly, was a

0:54

fad. But in its time,

0:56

it was a bigger deal than I could

0:58

have ever fathomed. Crowds

1:03

gather outside a department store in New York

1:05

for a combination fashion show and cocktail

1:07

party held in the store's front window.

1:10

The fashions are all made of paper. Yeah,

1:13

paper clothes.

1:16

King-size earrings top a tiered dress

1:19

of huge ruffles. Careful where you

1:21

put your cigarette ashes.

1:22

That's Tinder, kinder. A

1:25

paper evening gown needs repairs. No

1:27

needle and thread. Scotch tape. The

1:30

paper price tags ask for paper money

1:32

up to $60 a dress. Paper

1:34

profit, of course. That tears it.

1:39

Around the 1960s, there was this

1:41

moment in youth culture that was primed

1:43

for something new. There was this

1:45

bona fide explosion of colors

1:48

and trends and ideas. Lili

1:50

Pulitzer and Emilio Pucci put out wild

1:52

new patterns to try in a way that was totally

1:55

culturally acceptable. This wasn't fringy

1:57

to be bold and bright.

1:59

And so there was this desire

2:02

for many consumers to try it out, to

2:05

dip a toe in and to experiment

2:07

with wild, fun clothes.

2:09

But

2:10

perhaps without too much investment.

2:13

And before fast fashion, there

2:17

was paper. They were built to be convenient,

2:19

disposable, wear them only a few

2:22

times and then you can throw them away. The Museum

2:24

of Arts and Design in

2:25

New York currently has an exhibit

2:27

about paper dresses. It's called Generation

2:29

Paper, a fashion phenomenon of the 1960s. And that

2:32

is where I met

2:34

with Jill Bear Sporen.

2:36

People were told that you could go traveling

2:38

with these and then throw them away so you're

2:40

not putting as much in your suitcase. So

2:43

Jill's parents ran

2:45

Mars Manufacturing. Why

2:47

the name Mars? Mars

2:50

was my grandfather's

2:52

hosiery mill and Mars actually

2:55

stood for the first names of each

2:57

of the family. My mother's Audrey,

2:59

my grandfather's Murray. So it's Murray, Audrey,

3:02

Ronnie, Sally, Mars. Mars

3:05

Manufacturing

3:06

was a big part of the

3:08

paper dress trend.

3:10

My dad originally started

3:14

playing with this idea for soldiers

3:16

in Vietnam to have paper undershorts.

3:19

That's how Mars got into this. And

3:22

they didn't respond so well because

3:24

they were chafing the soldiers.

3:27

So my parents switched into the

3:29

paper dresses. I guess dresses are a little

3:32

more forgiving than underwear. But I

3:34

have to make this clear. This isn't like paper

3:36

that you would put in your printer. A

3:38

material which all of the Mars dresses were

3:40

made out of called casell, which

3:43

was a few layers of paper

3:45

and laminated inside was a like

3:48

a scrim of nylon. And that

3:50

was for durability and strength. So

3:52

it's not like paper paper. It's kind of fabricy

3:54

paper. It's fabricy paper. And

3:57

let me also say this is not the first time

3:59

that some

3:59

version of paper was incorporated

4:02

into mass fashion. In the mid

4:05

1800s, I love this example, men could buy

4:07

paper collars that they could

4:10

put onto their shirts so they could get that

4:12

crisp white look without

4:13

having to launder them. They could just

4:16

throw them away. They were single-use collars. And

4:18

then in the 1920s, there were

4:20

children's Halloween costumes that were made out of crepe

4:22

paper. But in 1966, the

4:26

idea that an adult woman

4:28

would wear an entirely paper

4:30

outfit outside in the world on a normal

4:33

day

4:34

began as a promotional

4:36

idea with the company Scott

4:38

Paper. And the Scott dresses started

4:42

because they wanted to promote

4:45

their paper goods. So Scott

4:47

Paper put out this ad that was like, if you mail

4:49

in two proofs of purchase from two Scott

4:52

Paper products, we'll send you this paper

4:54

dress. And they were made by

4:56

Mars Manufacturing. Jill's mom designed

4:58

them actually. They were these mini A-line

5:00

shift dresses, the kind you could imagine Twiggy

5:02

wearing. They're really simple, but they're printed

5:05

all over in bright pattern.

5:07

There were two options you could choose from, Paisley

5:10

or one in a trippy optical

5:12

illusion art. They're both very

5:15

on trend for 1966. So

5:17

they only did it the one time and they only

5:19

had the two dresses. But overnight,

5:21

I think within two days, 25,000 orders

5:24

were received. And

5:28

this was just a small manufacturing company.

5:30

So my parents had to bring in lots

5:32

of extra help. Obviously, the paper

5:35

dresses were a hit. And so a bunch of other

5:37

companies started to reach out to Mars to make their

5:40

own

5:40

promotional dresses. This was

5:42

in I think 1968, the Yellow Pages wanted to do

5:46

a promotion and they contacted Mars.

5:48

The Yellow Pages

5:49

one is really cool. It actually looks

5:51

like a collage of Yellow Page listings.

5:53

It's really smart. A lot of companies

5:56

like Butterfinger, Campbell's

6:00

Soup? No, the Campbell's Soup one is not

6:03

actually Mars, just so you know. Okay,

6:05

okay. But it's not.

6:07

Other paper dress manufacturers naturally

6:09

started to emerge because the demand was so high

6:12

and yes, with one of these other

6:14

manufacturers, Campbell's Soup made

6:16

a shift dress covered in their iconic

6:19

soup cans. It is so obviously inspired

6:21

by Andy Warhol, but the funny thing is now

6:23

this is just Campbell's Soup cashing in on

6:26

this trend themselves. And

6:27

it wasn't only corporations who were excited

6:30

about paper dresses. Politicians reached

6:32

out to Mars. They did dresses

6:34

for Nixon, for Kennedy, for Romney.

6:38

Romney senior. Romney senior, exactly.

6:41

20th Century Fox and Universal did

6:43

some dresses to market

6:45

all of their big stars. And so when

6:48

you think about it, the paper dress was

6:50

a perfect

6:50

promotional tool. They were desirable,

6:54

they were cool, they're very cheap to make

6:56

and they were very big and bold and

6:58

eye-catching. I mean, they took over your whole body

7:01

and also, I mean,

7:03

you barely needed to worry about sizes. I

7:05

remember to be able to just hem by

7:07

using your scissors and cutting it off wherever you want.

7:10

Paper dresses were super easy

7:12

to customize. There is a kids

7:14

black and white dress that came with a paint set and

7:17

I remember having a birthday party and all my

7:19

friends dressed and painted their dresses. There

7:21

was also an adult version of this party. There was

7:23

a famous ball in Hartford, Connecticut

7:26

and they paid famous designers to

7:29

actually paint on these dresses for a thousand

7:30

dollars. And then there was an

7:33

adult adult version of this party, one

7:35

that Jill's parents actually threw. They had

7:37

their own paper dress paint party

7:40

and had couples over and

7:42

the women wore

7:44

the dress and the husbands were told to

7:47

paint the dresses on

7:50

them while everybody was having cocktails and I hear that it was

7:52

a very, very risqué cocktail party. The

7:58

paper dress was out of the way.

7:59

Ideal for entertaining, and not

8:02

just in that cheeky, risque way.

8:04

I mean, it got to the point where Hallmark asked Mars

8:06

to produce paper dresses that matched

8:08

paper plates and paper placemats. So

8:11

you could have a party and all of your things

8:13

matched. And similarly, a number of airlines

8:16

asked Mars to manufacture dresses for

8:18

their stewardesses. They made a full

8:21

paper sari for Air India, made

8:23

from six yards of paper. And

8:26

you can bet that the airline stewardesses matched

8:29

the cups and the menus on the plane. And

8:31

TWA asked my family

8:34

to manufacture the dresses for the

8:36

flight attendants. The

8:37

TWA dress is actually gold. It's

8:39

so cool. At its peak,

8:42

how big was your parents' business making

8:44

it? Mars was selling something like 100,000

8:46

dresses a week at some points. And

8:50

they were, you know, getting orders from not

8:53

only the U.S. but overseas. There

8:56

was a store in Russia that was carrying them.

8:58

It really turned into a worldwide

9:02

phenomenon.

9:03

But here's the thing about paper dresses. To

9:05

me, it really starts to mark a moment

9:08

in fashion history when look

9:11

and feel are getting truly

9:13

severed when a photograph of

9:15

a garment is getting used to

9:18

sell a garment. People were

9:20

ordering a dress because they saw a picture

9:22

of it in an ad that was delivered to them without

9:25

knowing how a paper

9:27

dress would actually feel.

9:30

Are they comfortable? No, they weren't.

9:35

And that's part of what happened with the fad.

9:37

But no, they were comfortable

9:39

to wear once, but they

9:42

were a little stiff. They weren't the most comfortable.

9:45

And not only the

9:46

chafing. There was chafing. It

9:49

was also that paper clothing

9:51

was not up to the same job

9:54

as cloth clothing. Think about if you're

9:56

caught in the rain or if you are at a party

9:58

and you spill a drink.

9:59

Yeah. I think in particular

10:02

there were men who thought it was fun

10:05

to like tug on a hemline

10:07

and see what would happen. Jill said

10:10

that Mars did try to make paper

10:12

menswear, but it never caught on. And

10:15

I think I can guess

10:16

why. I mean, being clothed

10:18

in paper is so exposing.

10:21

So that's part of

10:23

what happened to paper dresses. It was the short,

10:25

short hemlines and people tugging

10:28

at them and thinking it was funny. And the

10:30

women's movement, you know, just

10:32

sort of stopped all of that. And the other

10:34

thing was that in 1970 was the

10:36

first Earth Day. And all of

10:39

a sudden this frivolous fun fad

10:42

really meant you're

10:44

filling up the landfills. So for all

10:46

these reasons, Jill never got

10:48

in on her family's paper dress business.

10:50

By the time I grew up, the

10:53

paper dress fad was over. And I was in the 70s

10:55

and my dad started his own company

10:58

with my mom. And that is actually

11:00

what, you know, they really ended up doing. Which

11:03

was still making clothes out

11:05

of paper, but in an entirely

11:07

different way. Doctors gowns, sheets,

11:10

pillowcases, surgical packs, all of that,

11:13

the masks. Is it because of these paper

11:15

dresses that we have advanced

11:17

paper medical garments? Yeah. I think that

11:20

these

11:20

were the precursor of that. Another

11:24

thing that these were the precursor of were

11:26

t-shirts. The paper

11:29

dress had helped open the doors to

11:31

big, bold patterns, to

11:33

eye-catching phrases and shapes

11:35

that

11:36

covered your body, to company

11:38

names and to slogans. Printed t-shirts

11:41

came about right after this. And if you

11:43

think about it, then people started wearing

11:45

whatever they wanted on their t-shirts.

11:49

I feel like paper is the Neanderthal

11:52

of clothing. A strange alternative

11:54

who

11:54

died out while cloth continued to take

11:57

over the world. And yet, There

12:00

is still another alternative to cloth

12:03

out there, one that's very vibrant

12:05

and kicking today, but perhaps

12:08

a little out of sight. Because

12:10

it just comes with a lot more baggage.

12:13

So I will hold it open, and you guys

12:15

can do this alone. You just practice. You

12:17

practice. It really takes practice.

12:18

Mm-hmm. Oh my god, I've made such a mess.

12:21

No, this is latex. It's

12:22

messy. After the break, latex

12:26

and the parallel universe of

12:28

rubberized clothes.

12:31

If you, like me, can appreciate an absolutely

12:34

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12:36

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12:40

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12:42

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12:55

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12:57

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13:00

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13:04

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13:38

How did you get into latex? Um,

13:41

I got into it originally just via

13:44

being a professional sex worker. Victoria

13:47

is a professional dominatrix and BDSM

13:50

provider. Honestly, at first it was just

13:53

like sort of a status symbol that I wanted

13:56

for myself because it's really

13:59

cost prohibitive.

13:59

It's really expensive and it's

14:02

really glamorous and it's not something those

14:04

people do, so I just really wanted

14:07

to be this type of Dom who

14:09

was latex clad and experienced

14:13

and successful. And once

14:15

I bought enough latex pieces and I started

14:17

getting them customized for my body, I

14:20

guess that ego also just like

14:22

when you get better at any job you stop projecting

14:24

so hard. So that sort of

14:26

dissipated a long time ago, but what

14:29

remains is

14:29

like just a love for the tactile experience.

14:32

It's... you'll see. Oh, I did

14:34

see. Victoria very generously let

14:36

me try on some of her immense,

14:38

expensive collection of hundreds

14:41

of latex outfits. Here we go. So we

14:43

have options for what you want to try.

14:46

Wow, I wasn't expecting... I don't know what I was expecting. It

14:48

definitely wasn't like...

14:50

How do I put this? How do I describe this? A

14:53

bunch of bags. A bunch

14:56

of plastic bags. Yeah, I was expecting like

14:58

a

14:59

closet. The latex garments are all

15:01

in little baggies in a chest of drawers.

15:04

It's not good for latex to hang it in the air and expose

15:07

it to light. Yeah, so that's why it's in these drawers.

15:09

This is a shameful amount of money worth

15:12

of latex, you know? So

15:14

I want to preserve it as best as I can. Okay,

15:17

there is a lot of interesting stuff to say

15:19

about latex. First, why

15:22

is this so expensive? What

15:25

is latex? Behind

15:27

the bark of a rubber tree is the

15:30

material, which is latex. Isn't

15:32

that fascinating? Like, yes, there's synthetic

15:35

latex and synthetic blended latex,

15:37

but in its pure form, latex

15:39

is a fully organic, natural,

15:42

vegan

15:42

material. It's natural rubber. People

15:44

make fake latex out of plastics.

15:47

But real latex is like the material

15:50

that comes from like a gum tree. And

15:52

actually the finished form that

15:55

you would find in a latex garment is actually rubber.

15:57

And latex is what you call the raw material.

15:59

but people use them interchangeably. But

16:02

technically, like once it's been formed into

16:04

a sheet, it's called rubber. Edna St.

16:06

Louis is a designer,

16:08

a fashion designer, not a fetish designer, but

16:10

her work is definitely not afraid

16:12

of sex. You know, people aren't used to seeing

16:15

like rubber and silicone and latex

16:17

outside of sex toys and condoms

16:19

and, you know, fetish wear. And Edna uses

16:22

latex for its very specific

16:24

connotations. There's a reason

16:26

that I'm using it instead of a different kind

16:28

of fabric or plastic or something and it's because

16:30

I want people to associate it with that. Because

16:33

Lord knows, there are a lot of materials

16:35

that are kind of sort of a little

16:38

bit similar to latex, materials that

16:40

a lot of other designers use to get a similar

16:43

latex-y effect, but that

16:45

are really so different. So latex

16:47

and vinyl and PVC and patent

16:50

leather, people are always think are the same thing

16:52

and use them interchangeably. Even fashion

16:55

designers confuse them a lot,

16:56

but they're super different materials.

16:59

So let's go over them. For one, there's

17:02

faux leather, which is just fully

17:04

made of plastic and made to look like leather.

17:06

And then something like this is

17:09

a faux latex. Faux

17:11

latex is spandex with a coat

17:13

of plastic,

17:14

so it stretches. And then PVC

17:17

and vinyl are hard and they're not stretchy

17:19

at all. That's what your shower curtain

17:21

is made of, PVC or vinyl. And then patent

17:23

leather, people think it's real leather, but it

17:25

is real leather. Patent leather is leather

17:28

with a layer of plastic. And then

17:30

latex. And latex is just latex.

17:33

And then

17:34

there's latex. It can be synthetic or

17:37

natural. Unlike leather

17:39

or PVC or vinyl or faux

17:41

leather or faux latex, real

17:44

latex is just this totally

17:47

different beast. Basically, you can't

17:50

sew it. If you puncture it, it will

17:52

rip and it rips easily. When you

17:54

put it on, you should be careful. You don't have anything sharp

17:57

on, like no jewelry, no long nails,

17:59

nothing like that, unless-

17:59

you're gonna wear gloves because you can rip it. So

18:02

no needles here. Latex is

18:05

not sewn with a needle and thread. You

18:07

can only glue it. So you just

18:09

have to cut it extremely precisely

18:12

because when you glue two seams together,

18:15

there's kind of no give.

18:17

They can't be misaligned

18:19

even a little bit.

18:21

So you just have to be extremely

18:23

precise in cutting. So for a designer

18:25

like Edna, Latex is incredibly

18:27

fun. It's more like sculpting than sewing.

18:29

So you can kind of be like pretty creative and

18:31

you can glue things almost in a 3D

18:34

shape, you know. You can attach

18:36

pretty much anything to Latex if

18:39

you kind of sandwich it with another piece

18:41

of Latex. So you can

18:43

add fringe and you can do

18:45

buttons and stuff. You just have to be careful not to

18:47

rip it. But these are some of the reasons

18:49

why Latex is not

18:52

used

18:52

as often as its cousins like Pleather

18:54

and PVC and vinyl. It's

18:57

just because Latex is so

18:59

different. I mean, a lot of people don't know how

19:02

to use it or what it's like even made of, even fashion

19:04

companies that I've worked for. Like we want to use

19:07

Latex. Let's try and sew some. I'm

19:09

like, oh no. I mean, if

19:11

you are a clothing manufacturer with a room full

19:13

of sewing machines, where are you gonna clear

19:16

the space to start cutting and gluing

19:18

big heavy sheets of Latex? You'd

19:20

have to completely change around your manufacturing

19:22

process, which is what

19:24

a lot of companies do if they want to work with Latex.

19:27

They usually are hand making it, even if

19:29

they're a big ish company, they're

19:31

making it themselves. Like in house, they have their own production

19:34

set up. So does that mean that Latex

19:36

like finished products are more expensive?

19:39

Yeah, because it's hard to find

19:41

somebody who knows how to work with it. It's not hard.

19:44

It's just nobody tries because

19:47

I think Latex clothing is still pretty niche.

19:50

And Latex has been niche for

19:53

a long time. Victoria said

19:55

she was inspired by the many, many doms

19:57

who came before her in history. say

20:00

for me it's like vintage fetish porn.

20:03

Like from the 50s? Like John Willey, do you know

20:05

that illustrator? John Willey

20:07

illustrated and published a magazine called

20:10

Bizarre, which started in 1945. It

20:13

featured illustrations, beautiful ones, by

20:15

the way, of women wearing bondage

20:17

and heels and corsets and yes,

20:20

latex. And he was able to avoid

20:23

censorship because technically, there

20:25

wasn't any nudity. He just did these beautiful

20:28

illustrations of women

20:29

putting each other in bondage. And

20:32

they were just sort of these extreme body shapes, which

20:34

have like a lot of curves, which I have, which

20:36

appealed to me. And he sort of like made

20:39

these drawings of these statuesque, terrifying

20:42

German demeanas tying up Danzels in

20:44

distress. But they were always wearing some of these shiny latex

20:47

or leather.

20:49

So it's not exactly for me to

20:51

say where the penchant for

20:53

shiny body tight stuff came from.

20:56

I mean, on the one hand, it's sort of obvious, right? What's

20:59

not to like? But if you really badly

21:01

want to play armchair psychologist, there is a little

21:03

bit of a historical tie-in for artists like Willey, because

21:06

some of the earliest rubberized clothes were latex

21:09

coated boots and

21:10

jackets. They were raincoats,

21:12

they were waterproof. And these were introduced

21:15

in military uniforms, predominantly in

21:17

World War II. So you could

21:19

say that that's where the fetish comes from, that it's

21:21

a revisiting and a recycling of war trauma.

21:24

But I don't think it's just that

21:26

simple and generalizable. Nothing

21:29

ever is when it comes to desire, especially

21:32

when you consider that a rubberized raincoat

21:35

and a pure latex shirt are

21:37

as similar as chalk and cheese. When

21:40

you put on raw latex, it's

21:43

unlike wearing anything else. So

21:46

just lube your thighs and your booty and your

21:48

hips are the most important parts. And then

21:50

I will put it so you can step in. I

21:53

had to cover my whole body in lubricant

21:56

to get into a latex dress. And then Victoria

21:58

made sure I lathered on.

21:59

extra lubricant. The more lube you put

22:02

on your body, the more pleasant the experience will

22:04

be, I will say. So

22:06

I should take my socks off. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lul,

22:09

I was going to keep my socks on. It's so embarrassing.

22:11

But I genuinely think I was

22:13

just scared that I would rip it

22:15

with my toes. Just go slow. Just don't

22:17

rush it. And if you break or rip

22:19

something, don't sweat it. Nothing here is precious.

22:21

That's sort of a lie. A lot of these clothes

22:23

are precious. And Victoria

22:24

is just being really zen.

22:27

I think you sort of have to be when it comes

22:29

to latex. And this is the tragedy that

22:31

happens to all latex lovers. You're putting on your

22:34

latex leggings, and you just feel like a snap,

22:36

like a rubber band. And it sort of bites

22:39

your skin. And it's really loud. And you just feel

22:41

your heart sink that your $400 latex pants are

22:44

just gone. They're done. They've lived their

22:46

life. And they've moved on. And you're

22:49

sort of left in the wake of

22:51

that. And once you rip it, it's

22:53

just done. Edna, the designer, says you

22:55

could patch up latex. You

22:57

could

22:57

technically glue a swatch of

22:59

latex into it. But it's never going to

23:01

be the same again. You can glue

23:03

it. But if you keep putting tension on it, it'll probably

23:06

just split again at some point. So

23:09

I very, very carefully eased into

23:11

Victoria's black latex dress. I

23:13

will help you with this. I'll do the back. And you do the front.

23:16

And then after I squeezed into the dress, I had

23:18

to lube myself up again. Yeah,

23:21

it's called polishing. But you're just greasing yourself,

23:23

basically. And you're making it shiny.

23:26

I was oozing lubricant like a slug.

23:28

If I sat down in a chair, I would leave a gooey

23:30

trail behind me. And this is one of the many

23:32

reasons why Victoria doesn't really wear

23:35

latex out in the world. Do you

23:37

ever wear it out? No. Really?

23:39

No. Fuck no. Why

23:41

not? It's not comfortable.

23:43

Really? It's hot. It's really hot.

23:46

And it's cold. It takes on the temperature

23:48

of the room it's in. So if you're outside in

23:50

latex, you'll feel like you're naked and wet. It's

23:53

very cold in the winter. It's like when

23:55

you put on clothes made of cloth, you're

23:57

protecting your skin. You're heating it.

23:59

or you're ventilating it, you're adding a layer. But

24:02

when you put on latex, you're

24:04

just putting more skin on your skin.

24:07

It's like your skin plus plus, which

24:10

made it so intimate that Victoria

24:12

was letting me try on this

24:15

second skin. Can you wash them?

24:18

Yeah. Okay. I have latex wash

24:20

in the shower. So I just want to, after I wear latex,

24:23

I wait until there's like a critical mass of like

24:25

my latex laundry. And then I just,

24:27

one day I take it in the shower with me and I just like,

24:31

yep, it's just a soap that's disinfectant that

24:33

won't erode the rubber.

24:35

And then you just dry it. So you

24:38

spend a lot of time doing laundry. Yeah.

24:40

I like it though. It sort of looks

24:42

nice in the shower, water beads off it. It's like,

24:46

what's that to love? It

24:48

seemed like there was a lot not to

24:50

love. Latex is expensive.

24:53

It's delicate. It is more than

24:55

a little bit impractical. You can't throw

24:57

it in the washing machine. You can't mend it.

25:00

It doesn't protect you from the elements at all.

25:04

I didn't quite get it until

25:07

this moment. Here, look in the mirror. It's

25:10

beautiful. Whoa. Right?

25:14

Oh my God. It just like, it

25:16

highlights every curve of your body. So if

25:18

you're thick or thin, you just look.

25:20

Oh my God. So beautiful.

25:23

I don't know how else to put this, but I felt

25:26

like a car. I looked like I

25:28

was cast in chrome. Like

25:30

I was precision engineered. That

25:33

the shape of my imperfect

25:35

body was exactly

25:37

what it was supposed to be. I

25:41

felt perfect.

25:43

It makes you like love your body. It

25:45

does. Oh, it's been so good for my self esteem.

25:48

Really? Well, a lot of people's fear

25:50

about latex is because it is a second skin. It's

25:52

gonna like show all your flaws. But I

25:54

find the opposite. Every body looks good in

25:56

it. Fat bodies, thick bodies, thin

25:59

bodies, muscle.

25:59

Well, is it just like a smoothing

26:03

sheen? Yeah, just the best version

26:05

of you. Don't you think it's

26:07

kind of funny that the word feeling

26:10

describes both internal sensations

26:13

and external sensations? You

26:15

know what I mean? Like you'd think the English language

26:17

would have different words for feeling

26:19

happy

26:20

versus feeling a breeze.

26:23

But in both senses of the word, I

26:26

felt incredible. I'm

26:28

like massaging my back

26:30

in this way that I definitely never touched my back before.

26:33

That's okay. You know what I mean?

26:35

Like that feels so amazing. It's nice.

26:38

Okay, so right away you can understand why

26:40

latex is an erotic thing, right? It just inherently

26:43

in itself feels very good as

26:45

a sensation.

26:46

But you know what's funny?

26:48

In at least that particular dress,

26:50

it was not for the act

26:52

of having penetrative sex. I

26:55

mean,

26:55

this dress covered me pretty much

26:57

entirely. There were no access points.

27:00

And it's not like you can just slip out of latex,

27:03

at least not in a way that's hot.

27:06

Oh no, you can't. You're sort of hunched

27:08

over. Yeah, you're doing

27:10

this weird gremlin stance. No,

27:13

I'm not. It's not as sexy. It's

27:15

performatively sexy. Latex is

27:17

only sexy because it makes you

27:20

feel and look so good

27:23

in a way that is actually fully clothed.

27:26

People feel like it's so taboo because if you wear

27:28

like a legging, what's the difference

27:30

between a legging and like

27:32

a rubber stocking or rubber

27:35

tights? There's really no difference

27:37

except the association with the material,

27:39

I think. And this is why latex

27:41

has always been just

27:43

dancing at the very periphery of

27:46

fashion. Yeah, definitely Vivian Westwood

27:48

was on the forefront of that. In the lead

27:50

up to the invention of punk, Malcolm

27:53

McLaren and Vivian Westwood ran a shop

27:55

from 1974 to 1976 called Sex, and it sold latex.

27:59

along with harnesses and whips

28:02

and other bondage stuff. And other

28:04

designers followed their lead. Terry Mugler

28:06

and Jean-Paul Gaultier and Walter Van Bierndonk put

28:08

out latex looks in subsequent decades.

28:11

But latex got more

28:13

mainstream, because it looked so

28:16

good on camera. In the 90s,

28:18

it kind of got more mainstream when there were more

28:20

superhero movies, because

28:23

Catwoman and

28:25

Wonder Woman was wearing latex. Not

28:29

to mention all that latex in The

28:31

Matrix. It was all kind of around the same time

28:33

that Madonna started wearing

28:36

it, and Ram

28:38

Shine, and there were all these music videos

28:40

coming out where people were doing fetish-inspired

28:44

outfits. And now, look at any

28:46

red carpet. You might see some latex.

28:49

So what do you think about

28:50

those more high fashion

28:53

uses of latex?

28:56

How do I feel about them emotionally? Sure.

29:00

I guess I just think it's beautiful.

29:03

It's just lovely. I mean, high fashion,

29:06

anything is impractical

29:08

in its nature and

29:11

fetishistic in its nature. So latex

29:14

is just another material to do that with.

29:17

Although it's hard to consider latex as just another

29:19

material. There's

29:21

been a lot of collections in the last five

29:24

years referencing fetish wear especially, so

29:26

I wouldn't say it's fully mainstream. Even

29:28

though designers might show latex on a catwalk,

29:31

it's very rarely something you can

29:33

actually get off the rack. Like, even

29:35

in sex shops, it's rare. Not

29:38

many stores sell latex. Maybe some fashion

29:40

stores will sell PVC or

29:42

pleather or one of the latex substitutes.

29:45

But

29:45

again, it's just that most factories

29:47

aren't equipped to work with it, and most consumers

29:50

aren't equipped to wear it. Latex

29:53

would require us all to rethink how

29:55

clothes are made and worn

29:57

and stored and washed.

29:59

make us reconsider what clothes

30:02

are for. I think it makes you

30:04

think about what you're wearing

30:07

and why you're wearing it and how

30:09

you wanna present yourself to

30:11

the world. It's kind of a fun experience

30:13

to think so much

30:14

about your clothing because I think people don't. And

30:17

it's more precious if you have to really take care

30:19

of it. And Edna makes a point of this in

30:22

her designs. Yes, she's a fashion designer,

30:24

but when she uses latex, it's in

30:26

a fetishy capacity. I think that

30:29

it's important to learn about

30:31

the material you're using

30:33

and use it correctly because latex

30:36

comes from the fetish community. So I wanna

30:38

make sure I'm doing them good

30:39

and I'm treating it properly.

30:43

But that might all be entirely

30:45

about to change, all of it. The associations

30:48

with latex and the ways that

30:50

it's used and cared for thanks

30:52

to an accidental discovery. I

30:55

am patent pending on the method.

30:59

It can be like a plastic and leather alternative, which

31:01

is really cool. Those things couldn't really be achieved

31:03

before with the material. After

31:06

the break, the super secret

31:08

method that might make latex

31:10

a lot more like cloth and

31:13

could bring a lot more latex to a lot

31:15

more people in the very near future.

31:28

In partnership with the Kinsey Institute

31:30

researchers, they asked tens of thousands of women what

31:33

made their pleasure better solo and with partners.

31:36

And one thing their research found

31:38

is how easy it is for us to lose curiosity

31:41

about pleasure and intimacy. So

31:43

many of us think things like, oh, I've got techniques

31:46

that work for me, I'm good. But finding out what works for other

31:48

people can really help you

31:50

find new things

31:50

you didn't even know

31:53

you or your partner liked. There

31:55

is always more to the story. There

31:58

is always more to explore.

31:59

On OMGS it is really cool

32:02

and empowering to like see these experiences

32:04

and techniques detailed so openly

32:07

without any blushing or shame.

32:09

What they're doing is long overdue and very,

32:12

very, very useful. Go to

32:14

omgs.com slash

32:17

articles for a special discount. That's

32:22

omgs.com slash articles.

32:26

Jessica Walsh is not a

32:28

latex fetishist. In fact, she has

32:30

never lubed up and tried on latex

32:32

in its raw form. I was never

32:34

really into latex. I actually thought

32:37

I was allergic to latex. Yeah, you can have

32:39

an allergy to latex. You can have an allergy

32:42

to pollen or plants

32:44

or anything else that occurs in nature. I

32:46

had a bad experience with

32:49

latex sexually once

32:52

and I assumed from that one

32:54

time that I had an

32:56

allergy. I was like, you know what? I'm

32:58

allergic to latex. But when

33:00

she was spending a little time studying at Central St.

33:02

Martin's in London, Jessica decided

33:05

to give latex another try. Students

33:07

in the year ahead of me actually were doing a fabric

33:10

sale and there was this latex and

33:12

I was like, oh, that's so nice.

33:14

I just immediately was attracted to it. I

33:17

mean, like I was in the UK and healthcare

33:19

was free. So I was like, like,

33:23

anaphylactic shock or something. They can just

33:25

scoop me up. The hospital's a mile away.

33:27

Oh my God. Can you imagine how much more

33:30

adventurous we'd all dress if we had universal

33:32

healthcare? The project that Jessica

33:34

wanted to try was to see if latex

33:37

could layer on top of other clothes.

33:40

I actually was

33:41

inspired by the way

33:44

that men dressed in the South with

33:47

their preppy clothing. And

33:49

these men I didn't necessarily have the best experience

33:52

with growing up. I felt like a lot of the people

33:54

that associated with this clothing

33:57

actually were really creepy dudes.

33:59

I don't know my perspective, it was like these hidden

34:02

monsters. So she thought, what if

34:04

the sexual element weren't hidden?

34:06

What if it was just there on the outside? I

34:09

wanted the shock factor

34:11

of the latex because it is

34:13

so sexualized in our culture. So she

34:16

wanted to put a layer of latex over

34:18

a preppy gingham collared shirt.

34:20

Because

34:21

latex layered over seersucker

34:24

or gingham, it changes everything.

34:26

But you can't just glue latex

34:28

onto cotton. That's not

34:30

how that works. That just led to a lot

34:32

of experimentation and led

34:35

to my passion for working

34:37

with latex. But the way that

34:39

you work with latex is

34:42

different than the way maybe anybody

34:44

else at all works

34:47

with latex. Can you explain how? Yeah.

34:50

It's really different. So yeah,

34:52

I developed a method

34:55

to stitch latex. Jessica can

34:58

sew latex. She works

35:00

with it like it's a normal piece of cloth.

35:02

But how does the method work? I can't tell.

35:05

Wait, really? You just put it in the sewing machine. So

35:08

I developed a way to

35:10

stitch it. So I

35:12

made basically

35:15

a little technique

35:17

that I can't share. I sort

35:19

of couldn't believe it, but no one had figured

35:21

this out before. I mean, Jessica kind of can't believe

35:24

it either. I'm always checking fashion

35:26

shows and

35:26

runways and stuff like that. I'm

35:28

like, has anybody figured it out? This

35:31

goes against everything that I thought I

35:33

knew about latex, everything I

35:35

had heard about the fundamental tempestuous

35:37

nature

35:37

of this material. It's not supposed to be

35:39

sewn. I mean, if I hadn't seen it myself, I

35:41

don't think I would have believed it. So this is a jacket.

35:44

We've never seen just like a puffer latex jacket. No.

35:47

Because, well, it's sewn. So

35:49

it's

35:50

this like down-filled puffer

35:52

jacket in latex. It is so unusual

35:55

to see latex applied

35:56

in this way, so much so that I wouldn't have

35:58

guessed it was latex. Obviously,

36:00

it's not the same skin-tight sensation

36:03

that makes you look and feel like a Ferrari. So

36:05

you don't need to lube yourself up for anything. No,

36:07

none of them. Jessica is turning

36:10

latex into

36:10

a different sort of material. It's

36:12

clearly offering something else. Something

36:15

waterproof, something durable. It

36:17

adds a layer of intrigue over a puffy

36:19

jacket or a skirt. It's practical,

36:22

but it's still a little exciting and

36:24

bizarre.

36:25

It doesn't look like latex anymore in

36:27

a stitched environment. It has

36:30

a totally different way of existing, which

36:32

could just maybe be being biased. But

36:35

when I look at sewn latex, it looks like

36:37

so much more of a luxury item. Jessica

36:40

can imagine a future where stitched latex

36:42

could be used for luxury handbags because

36:45

you can buy really thick latex that

36:47

would be able to bare a load. It opens up so

36:49

many doors to me because it

36:51

is biodegradable and it can be

36:53

an alternative

36:55

to plastics and to

36:57

leathers. And I think that

37:00

when people kind of start realizing that

37:02

about this fabric, it's going to be used so much

37:04

more. Especially

37:06

because, get this, Jessica

37:10

just washes latex like normal

37:12

cloth. You can wash latex in

37:14

the washing machine and just hang dry it. No. Yeah.

37:18

Wait, this goes against everything. What? I

37:20

don't know what's going on in my world. I

37:22

don't know a lot of things that people say you can't do,

37:24

work for my stuff so far. I

37:27

mean, obviously it's not supposed

37:29

to really be done, but I'm doing

37:31

it. And I'm like, well, it works.

37:34

Works for me. I

37:37

don't know what is magically happening

37:39

with Jessica. I don't know how she's managed to avoid

37:41

all the rules and regulations of the way that this

37:43

material is supposed to behave. And

37:46

really the ways that this community

37:48

around this material is supposed

37:50

to behave. I guess because

37:52

I didn't start

37:55

out with latex the way that everybody else

37:57

does, I've allowed it

37:59

to be. allowed myself to explore it in ways that other

38:01

people maybe didn't think to, because

38:04

they thought that it just couldn't be

38:06

done. But it's funny that it's unlearning

38:08

by going back to

38:10

the way that clothes are made. Yeah!

38:13

And that's what I think I found was so weird, I was

38:15

like, I don't want to learn how to

38:18

glue this, I want to sew it.

38:21

Has anyone gotten mad

38:24

at you? For

38:26

exactly what? You're pushing all these back

38:29

because you know they're like real. I have. I

38:31

have. Jessica just wandered

38:34

into this world of latex, well aware

38:36

that she is not a member of the community

38:38

that has been caring and advocating for this

38:40

material for decades. It's a community

38:43

that's been, that's been shamed.

38:46

And in a way they are rightfully

38:48

allowed to be annoyed, but also rightfully,

38:51

I'm

38:51

allowed to play

38:54

with some latex. My goal isn't out here to

38:56

upset people by this, you know,

38:58

it's to be like hey look at this material

39:00

that we can do so many things

39:02

with, and it's not talked about

39:05

enough.

39:06

Latex hasn't been given the time of

39:08

day because of its inherent complications

39:11

and its cultural associations, so

39:14

it makes sense to me that designers like Jessica

39:16

would want to recontextualize the material

39:19

and add new dimensions to it.

39:21

Make it easier, make it more practical.

39:25

But I also think that we

39:27

shouldn't want to completely

39:30

ignore all the elements that make latex

39:32

so singular because its

39:34

uniqueness has so much to teach us as

39:38

a material. It's

39:40

humbling. It's so interesting, it's like an

39:42

alternative universe, like I feel like we know

39:44

the rules of clothes of like oh here's how things

39:46

mend and here's how you take care of them and it's just like relearning

39:49

how clothes work from scratch. Yeah it's

39:51

completely different. But it's yeah, don't worry about it. It's

39:53

like the difference between putting on Spotify

39:56

and putting on like a record, you know,

39:58

it's just a more engaged experience.

40:00

clothing?

40:01

Latex makes you question why

40:04

we don't treat all clothing this way. Clothing

40:07

of any material. How

40:09

do we learn to care for it in the way that it wants

40:11

to be cared for? How do we take the time

40:14

to caress it? To really feel

40:16

it on the skin? How do

40:18

we learn to love what

40:21

might be difficult and unexpected

40:23

and

40:23

impractical?

40:25

How do we learn to appreciate it for

40:27

what it is and enjoy

40:30

its shortcomings? And

40:33

it is perhaps with these thoughts in mind,

40:36

with these lessons from latex, that

40:39

I went online and ordered a

40:42

vintage paper dress. There's

40:46

a portrait painted

40:50

on the things we

40:53

love. Articles

40:58

of Interest is written and performed and

41:01

made by me. You can find images

41:03

of paper dresses, including the Airline Stewardess

41:05

paper dresses, which are so cool, and a

41:07

few links to great latex shops

41:10

at articlesofinterest.substack.com.

41:13

Music by Ray Royal and Sasami, and

41:15

a very special thanks this week to Abigail

41:18

Glom-Lathbury, and a very special thanks

41:20

as well to you. Thank

41:22

you for listening. There's

41:30

a portrait painted

41:34

on the things we

41:37

love.

41:44

Radiotopia.

41:47

From PRX.