0:00

Deep in the ocean, an Orca Pod is

0:02

on the hunt. But these aren't

0:04

your average Orcas. These

0:06

guys are organized. Marketing

0:09

team, did you get those social media posts

0:11

scheduled for the SEAL migration? Aye

0:13

aye, Captain. We even have an automated notification

0:15

for all Pod managers when they go live.

0:18

They use monday.com to keep their

0:20

teamwork sharp, their communication clear, and

0:22

their goals in sight. monday.com. For

0:25

whatever you run. Even Orcas. Go

0:27

to monday.com to dive deeper. Tell

0:58

me a parenting issue everyone struggles with, with

1:00

tweens and teens, but no one talks about.

1:02

Rina, I think a lot of people feel

1:05

like they just don't know how to connect

1:07

to their kid anymore. Mmm.

1:11

I'm Rina Nainan, and welcome

1:13

to Ask Lisa, the psychology of

1:15

parenting podcast. And I'm Dr. Lisa

1:17

Damore. We bring you science-backed

1:19

strategies for managing anxiety, discipline,

1:21

intense emotions, and more. We

1:24

decode tough parenting challenges with tips

1:26

that you can use right now.

1:28

So subscribe to Ask Lisa, the

1:31

psychology of parenting podcast, and

1:33

join our YouTube community today. We're

1:35

here to help you untangle family

1:37

life. Episode

1:40

195, an encore episode, How Do

1:43

I Raise a Compassionate Child? with

1:45

special guest Dr. Tracey Baxley. Today

1:47

we're revisiting one of the most powerful conversations we've had. It's

1:49

with Dr. Tracey Baxley, the author of Social Justice Parenting, How

1:51

to Raise Compassionate Child. anti-racist,

2:00

just-minded kids in an unjust

2:02

world. Research keeps showing

2:05

us that compassion is one

2:07

of the strongest predictors of emotional resilience

2:09

and success, even in this

2:11

hyper-competitive world. A 2023 study

2:14

from the Journal of Positive Psychology found

2:16

that kids who engage

2:18

in acts of kindness report

2:20

greater life satisfaction and higher

2:23

academic motivation. That suggests

2:25

that compassion isn't just a nice-to-have skill.

2:28

It's really essential for thriving. But how do we

2:30

teach it? Dr. Baxley helps us

2:32

dive into what compassion, empathy, and kindness

2:34

really mean and why they're not

2:36

the same. She also guides us on how

2:38

to foster those qualities between siblings and

2:41

how to balance raising compassionate kids with

2:43

preparing them for a competitive world. So

2:46

join us now for Encore episode 195, How

2:49

Do I Raise a Compassionate Child with

2:51

special guest Dr. Tracey Baxley. You

2:55

know what I've wondered? What is it

2:58

in adults who don't have compassion that

3:00

maybe their mama could've taught them that

3:02

could've made a difference? That's my pressing

3:04

question I want to know today. You

3:07

do wonder, right, when somebody just seems

3:10

to have so little trust

3:12

in humanity and willing to sort of expand

3:14

themselves towards it, you think, what

3:16

went wrong along the way? How could

3:19

that have been redirected at some point

3:21

earlier in development than when I'm meeting you,

3:23

this currently unkind adult? We're going to get

3:26

an answer to that question today. I hope.

3:29

It's a really important question. I've wondered this

3:31

for quite some time. Super

3:33

excited to welcome our guest Dr.

3:35

Tracey Baxley. She's a professor, consultant,

3:37

speaker, and also a mother to

3:39

five children. She is the author

3:41

of Social Justice Parenting, How to

3:44

Raise Compassionate Antiracist Justice-Minded Kids in

3:46

an Unjust World. I love that

3:48

title. She is dedicated to supporting

3:50

families, schools, and organizations in developing

3:52

their own inclusive practices that lead

3:54

to meaningful relationships with a sense

3:57

of belonging. And Tracey is

3:59

using her experiences. And

6:01

empathy is really when you are

6:05

feeling somebody suffering, right? So that initial

6:07

feeling that you recognize that

6:09

somebody else is suffering, hurting. And

6:12

then compassion is when that

6:15

noticing changes to

6:18

relieving. So I have

6:20

this urgency, this wish, this desire

6:22

to then relieve somebody else's suffering.

6:24

And then I see kindness as

6:26

the action part. So the

6:28

actual doing of putting compassion in

6:30

action. So I love that.

6:33

It's sort of like the one, two, three steps.

6:35

Empathy leads to compassion, which is then enacted in

6:38

kindness and the behaviors of kindness. That's

6:40

such a beautiful, clear, and

6:43

yet completely fresh to me way

6:45

to break it all down. In

6:49

your book, you talk openly about the dynamics

6:51

in your family, where you and your husband

6:53

who is white are raising five children. Why

6:56

focus on social justice? Why should parents be concerned

6:59

about this? How does what you live at home

7:01

play out in the work you do for the

7:03

world? Yeah, I think it all

7:05

starts at home, right? I always talk about the

7:07

idea that activism really starts at home,

7:09

right? It starts in your own house. It starts

7:12

with the way that you show up with your

7:14

children, with your spouse, with your partner. And

7:16

I think because my family have

7:20

this diverse cultural

7:23

experience, right? My husband and I grew up

7:26

the same in a lot of ways, but

7:28

very different in terms of our racial awareness.

7:30

And I think it's really important

7:32

that I have the

7:34

conversations with my children, right? Coming from the space

7:37

of being a black woman and my

7:40

black experience and lived experience. But I

7:42

think it's also important that my children

7:44

know what it's like for my husband

7:46

to have grown up in a racialized world and

7:49

what that those same experiences and how

7:52

the perspective and how different they were for

7:54

him. And so I think it's important no

7:56

matter what our backgrounds are in

7:59

our homes that we live in. we're having those

8:01

kinds of conversations if we're really trying

8:03

to raise children who are empathetic,

8:06

kind, and compassionate because

8:09

it's the moment of seeing other people and

8:12

believing their lived experiences that we really

8:14

get to kind of move

8:17

our children from just

8:20

empathy to really starting to take action

8:22

out in the world. Tracey,

8:24

you know this concept of social justice

8:26

is so polarizing in today's world. I

8:28

mean, it can really be misconstrued in

8:30

the current political and social environment. How

8:33

do you help kids develop compassion for

8:36

people who do not see the world

8:39

through their same eyes? Yeah, it's

8:41

amazing how that word has become such

8:43

a trigger word in politics today. But

8:46

really, when I talk to kids about

8:48

social justice, it really is everybody

8:51

who's hungry has food, right? Everybody

8:53

who needs an opportunity for employment,

8:57

they have that opportunity. Everybody who needs

8:59

shelter has shelter. It really is about

9:01

how do we make sure that everybody

9:03

has their basic needs met and they

9:05

have opportunities to grow and

9:08

opportunities to become their best

9:11

selves. And that's really all

9:13

social justice is. It's really

9:15

about how do we create equity so

9:18

that everybody has an opportunity to live their

9:20

best lives. I don't know how we got

9:22

to the place where it's so weaponized and

9:24

so polarized and it seems like it's such

9:26

an easy phrase or

9:29

concept that we can all kind of rally around

9:32

is making sure that we all as

9:34

human beings have those basic

9:36

needs met. That's

9:38

so helpful and it

9:40

is kind of remarkable how something

9:42

that, you know, when you describe

9:44

it, the way you describe it

9:47

is so clear as the right

9:49

thing to do, just the

9:51

right thing to do as a member of

9:53

any group or any culture. Yeah,

9:55

just being a member of the human

9:57

race, right? That we should

9:59

want those. for each other. Yeah.

10:02

Well, Dr. Baxley, we have a ton of questions for

10:04

you from our listeners that we want to take up.

10:07

But we're going to pause, take a quick break, and

10:09

after the break, we're going to have those questions. You're

10:11

listening to Ask Lisa, the Psychology of Parenting. Friends,

10:15

I want to talk with you about Peloton. I

10:17

got started with it during the pandemic when we

10:19

couldn't go to the gym. And I will tell

10:21

you, it is game changing for me, and I

10:23

have stayed with it. The

10:25

thing about Peloton is that it has

10:27

what you need just when you

10:29

need it for as long as you want it. I

10:33

use Peloton pretty much every day,

10:35

but I use it for a huge range of

10:37

things. So sometimes I will take

10:39

the app on a walk and have

10:42

one of their phenomenal instructors coach me

10:44

through an exercise walk. When

10:46

I am traveling, there are yoga classes

10:48

that I do that are running

10:51

them off my phone. I cannot

10:53

say enough about how much I love

10:55

particular instructors. I will tell you Andy

10:57

Spear has been my favorite as I've

10:59

worked to put on some muscle with

11:01

menopause hitting hard. But

11:03

there's also Ali Love, who's my favorite

11:05

person for bar, and Dennis

11:07

Morton, with whom I do a lot of yoga.

11:10

So find your push,

11:13

find your power with

11:15

Peloton at onepeloton.com. The

11:18

holidays are here. There's a lot of decisions to be

11:20

made, and one just got a lot easier for me.

11:22

I have figured out what I'm giving my folks and

11:25

also my in-laws. They are

11:27

getting skylight frames. These

11:29

are all-in-one touchscreen digital picture frames

11:31

that allow me to share photos

11:33

with them almost instantly, and I

11:35

can do it from anywhere. The

11:38

best thing about skylight frames is that

11:40

they are so easy to use. Setup

11:42

takes less than 60 seconds. Sharing

11:45

is seamless. And I

11:47

can also invite my sister-in-law and

11:50

my brother-in-law to share as well so that

11:52

their kids' photos will end up in these

11:55

frames too. And

11:57

now is a special limited time

11:59

offer for our listeners. Get $20

12:02

off your purchase of a Skylight

12:04

Frame when you go to skylightframe.com/Lisa.

12:07

That's

12:09

s-k-y-l-i-g-h-t-f-r-a-m-e.com/Lisa.

12:15

Get $20 off your

12:17

purchase now at skylightframe.com/Lisa.

12:22

This episode is proudly brought to you by Lola

12:24

V, an award-winning haircare

12:26

line founded by the ever-fabulous,

12:28

ever iconic Jennifer Aniston. Okay,

12:31

so here come the holidays and what

12:33

am I actually putting in the stockings

12:36

of my family, Lola V haircare products.

12:38

So my husband has really become devoted

12:40

to her restorative conditioner. Whereas

12:43

my younger daughter has become a complete

12:45

fan of the glossing detangler. And

12:48

I really stuck on

12:50

this product. So this holiday season, unlock

12:52

Jennifer Aniston approved hair

12:54

at lolav.com. As

12:57

our loyal listeners, you'll get an exclusive 15% off

13:00

your entire order when you use

13:02

code AskLisa15 at checkout. That's

13:05

15% off your order

13:07

at lolavie.com with

13:09

promo code AskLisa15. Please

13:12

note that you can only use one promo

13:14

code per order and discounts cannot be combined.

13:17

After you purchase, they'll ask where you

13:19

heard about them. Please support our show

13:21

and tell them that we sent you. Your

13:23

hair will thank you. Welcome

13:26

back to AskLisa, the psychology of parenting.

13:28

We're joined by special guest, Dr. Tracey

13:30

Baxley who's helping us understand how

13:33

do we instill compassion in our kids? What

13:35

really works? All

13:37

right, here we go. We got

13:39

phenomenal questions. Our listeners are so

13:41

thoughtful and they share such wonderful

13:44

and real and detailed thoughts

13:46

and questions with us. So here's

13:48

the first. How do

13:50

I initiate a practice of serving

13:53

slash volunteering? My kids are 11 and 13 and

13:56

I am bracing for some serious pushback.

13:59

I think. sometimes when we want to

14:01

impose our will on our children, it

14:04

doesn't work very well. And

14:09

I think that's when you

14:11

kind of have these kind of family

14:14

meetings around what's important to you as families.

14:16

I think it's really important that as families

14:18

we create these core values, that things are

14:21

important, and how do they look in real

14:23

life? Like, what does that look like on

14:25

a daily basis to enact and to act

14:27

on those core values? And 10 and

14:30

11-year-olds have real

14:33

ideas of what is true for

14:35

them, what they're passionate about. And

14:37

I think doing more listening and

14:39

less pushing is really important, because

14:41

what's important to them, what they

14:43

find their passions in can

14:46

be very different from what yours are.

14:49

So I think agreeing, like our core

14:51

value is about giving back and helping.

14:53

What that looks like. Let's have some

14:56

wiggle room around that. Like, that could be

14:58

something that's more fluid. And getting them

15:01

to have some say into

15:03

what that looks like for our family based on

15:05

what they're interested in and what's important to them.

15:08

Why is getting kids to volunteer so important? You

15:10

know, we've got this question from a listener who

15:12

asks, how do I get my kids to not

15:15

be so self-centered? And I'm wondering, are these two

15:17

questions kind of linked? They are

15:19

very linked. I think the more that our children

15:21

are out in the world. I'm going to kind

15:23

of go backwards for a second. I

15:26

talk a lot about the importance of

15:28

having these hard conversations with our children

15:31

early, right? Not sheltering them, not creating

15:33

a bubble around them to

15:36

separate them from what's going on in the real world. And

15:38

the more that they can have access to the

15:40

real world issues, the more that

15:43

they can grow their capacity for empathy

15:45

and compassion. So I think this

15:47

idea of leaning into what's going on in

15:49

the world is the first step to that.

15:52

And then the second thing is the

15:54

more opportunities they have to serve other

15:56

people, the less that they are

15:59

more in the world. entrenched about what's going

16:01

on with them. They get to see, and

16:03

this is another polarizing word right now, they

16:05

get to see their privileges for what they

16:07

are, whether it's race, whether

16:10

it's socioeconomic, whether it's age,

16:12

religion, whatever those privileges are.

16:15

They get to see how they can use those privileges

16:17

in a way that are

16:20

tools for change, right, tools for action,

16:23

versus the way we're using

16:25

it now often is this idea of weaponizing

16:27

it. But the more opportunities they

16:30

have to see the perspective of other

16:32

people and do for other people, I

16:34

think the more it builds their capacity

16:36

to be less self-serving

16:39

and more about how they can help

16:41

other people. And the research

16:43

shows that when we see or

16:45

are involved in

16:47

acts of kindness, it grows

16:50

our spirit for more of

16:52

that. So the more we

16:54

see and do, really, the more our

16:56

kids are able to feel

16:58

what it's like to do for other people physiologically,

17:01

right? I

17:03

love that. And I also love that

17:06

idea of privileges about the capacity to

17:08

be of service to others, to offer

17:10

something to others. And

17:12

just thinking about it, I love how

17:14

you mentioned the research. And what you're

17:16

reminding me of is incredible research about

17:19

the value, and I think you're gesturing

17:21

at this, of kids feeling like

17:23

someone's counting on them, like that

17:25

there's someone out there who needs them

17:27

or needs them to contribute

17:29

in a meaningful way. And you're

17:33

absolutely right. It's so well-established in the

17:35

literature that this is incredibly valuable for

17:37

kids in all of these really, really

17:40

powerful ways. There is

17:42

so much beautiful work

17:45

out in the world about

17:47

the scientific benefits of teaching

17:50

our kids compassion. The

17:55

studies show that kids who

17:57

are compassionate can build relationships with

17:59

their peers. better, they

18:01

are more likely to have

18:03

positive social interactions with their

18:06

classmates. Literally

18:09

their heart rate slows down and

18:12

the happy hormone is secreted more

18:14

readily right when they show compassion.

18:18

It leads to more feelings of happiness, longer

18:22

living, their lives are extended when

18:24

they show compassion. So

18:27

it really does have a lot

18:29

of physical and mental health benefits

18:31

as our kids become more compassionate.

18:34

I love it. Okay, you mentioned

18:36

social relationships. One

18:39

question that we got in multiple versions is

18:42

it's all well and good, I'm sort

18:44

of summarizing here, until the kid you're trying to

18:46

socialize with is super annoying. So

18:48

to sort of sum up the question

18:50

in a gentler fashion,

18:53

how do you balance being

18:55

a good friend with

18:57

taking care of yourself? How

18:59

do you manage hangouts and inclusivity

19:02

and sometimes dealing with a kid who's challenging? You

19:05

know, it's so this is something that I

19:07

struggle, not struggle with, but these are conversations

19:09

that I've had with my children when they

19:12

were younger, because I have

19:14

a couple kids who are empaths, right? And

19:16

they take on everybody's issue. They want to

19:19

be everybody's friends, they want to be the

19:21

fixer. And it was

19:23

really important to have the conversation

19:25

with my children about being

19:29

compassionate and having

19:31

boundaries. So really being

19:33

able to hold both spaces at

19:35

the same time. And so really, I

19:38

think role playing with our children about what

19:40

does it look like to be compassionate? But

19:42

what does that look like when your boundaries

19:44

have been crossed, right? If it's a child

19:46

who's bullying you in

19:48

some way when you're compassionate, consistently being

19:50

rude, consistently showing up for you in

19:53

a way that makes you feel not good

19:55

about yourself or not, not happy.

19:58

So what does that look like to hold back? boundaries around

20:00

that and recognize that you can be

20:02

both compassionate but hold your boundaries so

20:04

that it's not infringing

20:07

on your own mental health or

20:09

or or physical health really. You

20:12

know Tracy, that's a great question. You know, one of

20:14

the one of our listeners also wrote in asking how

20:16

do I teach my kids to be kind and compassionate

20:18

and nice to people but also to stand

20:20

up for themselves and be assertive Yeah,

20:23

and I think that goes with teaching them how

20:25

to how to hold boundaries especially with younger children.

20:27

It's I'm a big proponent

20:29

of role playing like having

20:31

these creating these scenarios and I call

20:33

it back pocket talk so that our

20:36

kids are ready when certain things happen.

20:38

They don't have to think in the

20:40

moment. I know all of

20:42

us as adults, you know, when we're in

20:44

certain situations and when that situation has passed,

20:46

we're like, oh man, I should have said

20:49

I wish I had thought to say if

20:51

I had to do that again, this is

20:53

what I would say really equipping our kids

20:56

with back pocket talk so that when certain

20:58

situations arise, they already know what to

21:00

say and they don't have to think about it and I

21:02

think showing our children how to

21:04

do that, how to say things in a

21:06

way that it's compassionate, right, but it's also

21:08

very firm because I think

21:11

it's important for us to be able to use

21:13

our words strongly but use them still with compassion.

21:15

Like what does that look like? How are we

21:17

listening? I'm actively listening with care,

21:19

right? How are we being mindful of our

21:22

tone, right? And what our tone means, I

21:24

always say to my kids, it's

21:26

not what you say, it's how you say it. So

21:28

you can say, for instance, no

21:30

in a way that's very kind or you

21:32

could say no in a way that is

21:34

kind and firm. So really thinking

21:37

about how we choose our words, how

21:39

we show empathy with our words, but

21:41

how we use them in a way

21:43

that shows that we've created boundaries is

21:45

really important that we are role playing,

21:47

teaching our kids, giving them a language

21:49

around that so that they feel empowered

21:52

with their words. Back pocket talk.

21:54

I like that, Lisa. I do. Tracy,

21:56

do you have any like greatest lines,

21:59

great? just hits like phrases that you

22:01

have used or that you've helped your

22:03

kids have on hand? Well,

22:05

a lot of the things happened during

22:08

the 2020 election where my kids were

22:10

really struggling with some of

22:12

the conversations they were having with children and

22:15

honestly, that they

22:17

were having with adults too, right? So there

22:19

became a big division about who side you're

22:21

on really during the 2020 election. And

22:24

I also got a lot of that

22:26

question from a lot

22:28

of parents who have grandparents

22:30

or aunts or uncles of

22:32

their children who politically

22:35

were on different in different

22:37

places. And so a lot

22:39

of the things that I would say to them

22:41

is to tell their kids to

22:44

listen, right? Actively listen, because people sometimes

22:46

just want to be heard, right? And

22:48

so you say to them, I will

22:51

listen to what you have to say. And then when

22:53

you're done, I want to tell you

22:55

what I'm thinking, right? So you

22:57

have the conversation where you're saying,

23:00

I'm listening, right? I hear

23:02

what you're saying and I respect what you're

23:04

saying and I want to hear your voice.

23:07

And then you give your children the opportunity or

23:09

you give the adult the opportunity to then say

23:12

what they need to say. Sometimes

23:15

when you have those conversations and those

23:18

conversations are almost feel like a personal

23:20

attack, then you give your children the

23:22

language to say, I

23:24

respect what you're saying, but what you're saying to

23:26

me is offensive to me, or it doesn't feel

23:29

good to me inside. And I'm going to choose

23:31

to walk away, or I'm going to

23:33

choose to know that we won't

23:35

agree on this and that's okay, but we

23:37

can still be friends, right? So giving them

23:39

the language to say, that's not okay with

23:42

me. I hear you and I

23:44

respect that you have a voice on this,

23:46

but I'm not good with that. It doesn't

23:48

feel right for me and I'm going to

23:50

excuse myself from this space or this conversation,

23:53

or I'm going to hold boundaries

23:55

around our friendship, right? Because sometimes it isn't

23:57

a place where the compassion.

23:59

the biggest part of the compassion of

24:01

that moment is self-compassion. And sometimes that

24:03

means you have to exit relationships in

24:06

doing that. That's incredibly

24:08

powerful. And it's

24:10

just interesting to think about how we're

24:12

trying to coach kids to do something

24:14

that adults themselves are struggling with so

24:17

much. So true. Yeah. And the

24:19

kids are watching adults struggle with, you know,

24:21

in the news or in

24:23

public space. And one

24:26

of the things that's come up a lot post-pandemic is,

24:28

you know, kids are coming back to school with very

24:31

rusty at best and often extremely rough

24:33

social skills. And I'm thinking

24:36

all the time, yeah, but also look

24:38

at the interactions around them. Look at

24:40

what they see unfolding the discourse for

24:42

adults. So what you just offered us

24:44

really feels like a timeless model of

24:46

dignified self-protection

24:50

without actually being unkind to the other person

24:52

and just, you know, trying to really protect

24:54

oneself while also being respectful of everybody else.

24:58

And you know what, I think what we do a lot of times

25:01

is we don't give children permission to be able

25:06

to do that, right? To trust their gut.

25:08

I always tell my kids, when you're hard

25:10

on your gut, disagree, go with your gut,

25:13

right? Because, you know, when kids are young,

25:15

and they don't want to hug Aunt Bertha, right? Yeah. We

25:17

always say, you hug her, she's your aunt,

25:23

go hug her. Yes. Right. And we're

25:25

teaching our kids not to listen to those boundaries that

25:27

their bodies naturally want to kind of set for themselves.

25:29

And so I think this idea of us

25:34

teaching compassion, we also

25:37

have to set boundaries around how to

25:39

get our children to still feel like

25:41

they can create those boundaries safely for

25:43

themselves and trust themselves in creating

25:46

those boundaries. Okay. So what about when

25:48

it all comes home? Here was something

25:51

that came up actually in many, many

25:53

different versions. So we're going to give

25:55

you one, which is How

26:00

do you teach siblings to be

26:02

compassionate towards each other, right? All

26:04

well and good with Ampertha, who you might not see

26:06

for a year, but like the kid who shares your

26:09

bedroom or at least is trying to play with all

26:11

your toys. Like how do we teach compassion between

26:13

in those relationships? Again,

26:16

it has to be modeled, right? It has to come from

26:18

you. When they are

26:20

doing something that shows compassion, let's

26:23

talk that up, right? Let's not let that go on

26:26

unseen and unheard. So I mean,

26:28

my kids are all teenagers or

26:30

young adults now. And when I

26:32

do it now, they think, okay, okay,

26:34

okay, mom, like don't ruin the moment. But

26:36

I still do it. Like when I see

26:38

them reaching out, like

26:40

when my daughter is the oldest, when she reaches out

26:43

to her brother, who's also in college just to check

26:45

on him, it like makes my heart

26:47

so full. And

26:50

I say, Oh my God, you're like, you're

26:52

making my day knowing that you've reached out

26:54

to your brother without me having to say

26:56

check on your brother, right? And so I

26:59

think as parents, we have to kind of

27:01

build those moments up to make them big

27:03

deals. So our children know that

27:05

that is the behavior that we are

27:07

seeking. That is the behavior that align with

27:10

our core values. And

27:12

then when those actions

27:14

are not happening, then we have to think

27:16

about, you know, why is that? And I

27:18

think a lot of it, especially when they're

27:20

young is have we taught

27:22

our children to tap into what

27:26

these emotions are, right?

27:29

Have we taught them how to own

27:31

these emotions to talk about them, not

27:33

just compassion, but just in general, do

27:35

we talk about what it's like to feel?

27:39

I know Mark Brackett's books, permission

27:41

to feel is such a great

27:43

book on teaching kids to go

27:46

beyond like angry, sad, happy, you

27:49

know, like what are those nuances of feelings?

27:51

And so when they start to feel the

27:53

idea of what it feels like to have

27:55

empathy and compassion, they've already tapped

27:57

into these emotions in a lot of different ways.

28:00

so that these emotions feel kind of normalized

28:03

in a lot of ways. But

28:05

I think the idea of really teaching kids

28:08

what emotions feel like, asking

28:11

them about their emotions is

28:13

really important. And I also think

28:15

it's that idea of saying

28:18

to your children, are you

28:20

sad? Are you angry? Is

28:22

really, could be dangerous, right? Because

28:24

then that begins to define who

28:26

they are. So it's

28:29

really, I mean, it's a slight twist,

28:31

but this idea of saying, are you

28:33

feeling frustrated? Are you feeling angry? So

28:35

that they know that those feelings are

28:37

not tied to them, but that it's

28:39

something that kind of comes and goes,

28:42

right? So I think

28:44

really having overt conversations about emotions

28:46

and feelings is really important for

28:48

them to begin to tap in

28:51

to what empathy and compassion feels

28:53

like. Because when you're having those

28:55

conversations about feelings, then they

28:58

start to feel like there's some compassion

29:00

coming from you and

29:02

asking them what they're feeling and why

29:04

they're feeling those ways as well. Is

29:07

teaching compassion to a three-year-old different

29:09

than teaching it to a 13-year-old?

29:13

I think it is because I think

29:15

it's the language that you use to

29:17

unpack those feelings. Like

29:19

for a three-year-old, I would say something

29:22

like, it looks like you're

29:24

feeling sad. Tell me

29:26

why you think you're feeling sad and

29:28

maybe explain to them why they look

29:30

like they're feeling sad. You're holding your

29:32

head down the way that you're

29:34

looking at me with your eyes. And I know, you

29:37

know, Mommy just told you, know that you couldn't

29:41

stay up later or that you couldn't have

29:43

that ice cream. And is

29:45

that how you're feeling? Is

29:48

sad a good feeling to describe what

29:50

it is that your emotion that you're

29:52

having right now? So talking to them

29:54

about what that sadness looks like for

29:56

you and asking them if

29:58

your feelings are correct. and feeling

30:00

that. I think it's still important that

30:03

we ask our teenagers how they feel too but

30:05

it may look a little different. It may be

30:07

like you know it seems

30:09

that something looks like something's going on with

30:11

you. What are you feeling right now? You

30:13

know what does that feel like for you

30:16

and your body? What does that look like

30:18

for you? Tell me what that is. Why

30:20

do you think you're feeling that way? So

30:22

having them to be more problem solvers in

30:24

that then doing

30:26

the more they're explaining. So I think it

30:28

is tapping the same as tapping into those

30:30

feelings but the way that you ask them

30:32

it may be looking a little

30:35

different. But I also want to

30:37

say too when

30:40

you're dealing with teens and compassion and I'm

30:42

gonna go back to this idea of

30:44

self compassion I think teens

30:46

really they're in a state where

30:49

they're more prone to like the self criticism

30:51

and the self blame and I think it's

30:53

really important that we teach them to really

30:57

tap into and zoom into what happens

30:59

when they don't have self compassion and

31:02

how they start to

31:04

build that self compassion because

31:06

I think that will go a long way for

31:09

them to navigate through those teen years and then

31:11

to be able to use that idea of

31:14

compassion when it is attached to to other

31:16

people. It's just gorgeous. I mean what I

31:18

really what I think I hear you saying

31:21

Tracy is first we have

31:23

to be incredibly compassionate with our kids that

31:26

helps them to be compassionate with themselves

31:29

and then they are positioned to be compassionate

31:31

with other people but it's got

31:33

to go that order. Yes.

31:36

Is that what you're saying? Yes very

31:38

well said. Good summary. No

31:40

I just I love it no but I mean

31:43

you're just bringing to the front stuff that um

31:46

swirls all around us and just to lay it out

31:48

the way you do I don't

31:50

know I'm just sort of like my neurons are

31:52

on fire like I'm just neurons are on fire

31:54

is that like a psychological like a psychology term

31:56

the two of you bounce around probably

32:00

I'm sure a total perversion of actual

32:02

neuroscience. Okay,

32:05

Tracy, let's talk about the limits of compassion,

32:07

like where it may not always be easy

32:11

to summon or know what to do with. We

32:13

got this question from a listener. How

32:16

do I help my kids be kind to someone who needs

32:18

a friend but is not a good friend?

32:21

I know, right? We

32:23

get good questions. I know. Yeah,

32:25

that is a tough one. And

32:28

I think it goes

32:30

back to language, right?

32:32

You can have modeling,

32:35

role playing with your children,

32:37

the language to use when

32:39

that's happening. Using

32:42

I language, right? I feel

32:46

that I am a good friend to you. These are

32:48

the things that I do that I think demonstrate

32:51

my friendship to you. I

32:55

would love those things in return. These are the

32:57

things that I define as a good friend. Can

33:00

you talk to me about how you

33:02

are reciprocating or this

33:04

friendship is mutual? I don't know

33:06

the age of that person, but I think

33:08

middle school through high school is a great

33:10

conversation for friends to have. What

33:13

does our friendship mean to you? This is what it means

33:15

to me. This is a way that I

33:17

want to show up for you. Does that work for you?

33:19

How do you feel about the way I'm showing up for

33:21

you? These are the things that

33:24

I need in this friendship as well, right? Again,

33:26

it's about the language and

33:28

it's also about creating boundaries.

33:32

Maybe this is a relationship that no longer

33:34

serves me, right? People are in our lives

33:36

for reasons and seasons and maybe this is

33:38

a relationship that no longer serves

33:40

me in some way. Having

33:43

those conversations with our kids about

33:46

having to end relationships that no longer

33:49

serve us is really important because I

33:52

think in

33:55

friendships and relationships, our kids sometimes, especially our

33:57

kids, are going to be in our lives

33:59

for a long time. kids who are empaths

34:01

or who are very over

34:03

compassionate, they can say in things

34:06

that no longer serve them. Right.

34:08

And again, it's about, am I

34:10

having self-compassion by staying in a

34:12

relationship where I don't feel good

34:14

about myself at the end of it? So

34:17

I think having conversations about what is friendship

34:19

to you? What does that look like? Here's

34:21

what I offer as a friend for

34:24

you. What do you think you offer

34:26

for me as a friendship? And then having the

34:28

conversation about does this still serve

34:30

us both? What adjustments can

34:32

we make to make sure this friendship

34:34

is a loving, safe friendship for both

34:36

of us? And if that's something that

34:38

can happen, maybe the boundaries are that

34:40

we're distant friends. Wow.

34:42

I mean, I can't imagine ever, even with adult

34:45

having that conversation, it's so hard, but teaching kids

34:47

at a young age, I think that's so great.

34:49

So before we go, Tracy, I got to ask

34:51

you this last question. Somebody

34:54

posed this to us and they wanted to know,

34:56

are compassionate kids really better off

34:59

in this hyper competitive world? I

35:02

think they are because I think it's

35:04

what is needed, right? I think if

35:06

we want to create the

35:09

world that we want our children to

35:11

live in, I think compassion has to

35:13

be a part of that. The

35:16

science, going back to the science,

35:18

right? The science shows that when

35:20

you are a compassionate person, all

35:24

of these things, including being in an

35:26

environment that's competitive right, you bring a

35:28

different energy to that environment.

35:30

I think that serves everybody in

35:32

it. Again, I know

35:34

I said it's over and over. We do

35:36

want to teach our kids boundaries around those

35:38

things, but I think compassion is

35:41

really the foundation for creating the

35:43

world that we want our children to live in. Tracy,

35:47

thank you so much for joining us

35:50

and also for the really incredible work

35:52

that you're doing. We're just so glad to spend some time

35:54

with you. Thank you so much for

35:56

having me. Dr. Tracy Baxley,

35:58

the book is called Social Jog. justice parenting,

36:00

how to raise compassionate, anti-racist, justice-minded kids

36:02

in an unjust world. We're going to

36:04

post the link to her book in

36:06

our show notes if you're interested. Dr.

36:09

Baxley, grateful you could join us. Thank

36:11

you so much. What a great

36:13

conversation. I love what she says about how

36:15

the science that is behind compassion and why

36:17

it's so important to teach our kids. I

36:19

do too. And you know, Rina, how I

36:21

love when we can bring the research to

36:24

inform how we live our family

36:26

life. It's my favorite thing. It

36:28

is. I know you love it. Absolutely. So what do you

36:30

have for us, Lisa, for parenting to go? I

36:33

loved all of the language that

36:36

Dr. Baxley provided in terms of how to

36:38

talk with kids and also how to coach

36:40

them in terms of having back pocket phrases.

36:42

And this is something I've absolutely done a

36:44

lot, both as a psychologist and also as

36:46

a parent. I'm going to throw in a

36:48

little twist that I have found works

36:51

to help kids be open to all of that

36:54

language is I will usually

36:56

say something like, okay, this is like my 52 year

36:58

old version of how to say this thing. You'll figure

37:00

out how to make it your 12 year old version,

37:02

but here are the ideas because

37:05

I've sometimes watched kids get hung up on the like, I'm

37:07

not going to say that. And

37:09

very rarely in their interactions where they can use the

37:11

exact language that we would come up with in our

37:13

kitchen. So you can get them

37:15

over that hump saying like, this is my version.

37:18

What would your version sound like? And that

37:20

can actually help really put it

37:23

into action in the moment. Hearing

37:26

her say about the role playing, which is what

37:28

you're also talking about too, is practicing that you're

37:32

setting them up for success because they've had a round at

37:34

it before they actually have to come face to face. Absolutely.

37:37

Right. I've been with parents who will sometimes say like,

37:39

why can't my kids say to the kid who just

37:41

said to them, your shoes are ugly. Why can't they

37:43

say, you know, you shouldn't talk to me that way.

37:45

That's not cool. And I've said to them, okay,

37:48

but if somebody stopped you on the street and said something

37:50

like, would you be ready with that language? Like, it's

37:52

very hard to do. It's very hard to do.

37:55

So I think practice, practice, practice, and then make

37:57

room for kids to make it their own. Sounds

37:59

great. Wow, I really enjoyed having

38:01

her on. Dr. Tracy Baxley, Lisa, I want

38:03

to thank you. And next week

38:05

we're going to talk about whether your kid is really sick

38:08

or just trying to avoid school. How do you tell the

38:10

difference? I'll see you next week. I'll see you next week.

38:16

Thanks for joining us. Be sure to

38:18

subscribe to the Ask Lisa podcast so

38:20

you get the episodes just as soon

38:22

as they drop and send us your

38:25

questions to ask Lisa at dr.lisademore.com. And

38:28

now a word from our lawyers. The advice

38:30

provided on this podcast does not

38:32

constitute or serve as a substitute

38:34

for professional psychological treatment, therapy, or

38:36

other types of professional advice or

38:39

intervention. If you have

38:41

concerns about your child's well-being, consult a

38:43

physician or mental health professional. If

38:45

you're looking for additional resources, check out

38:48

Lisa's website at drlisademore.com. Hey,

39:01

I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like

39:03

to do the opposite of what big wireless

39:05

does. They charge you a lot, we charge

39:07

you a little. So naturally, when they announced

39:09

they'd be raising their prices due to inflation,

39:12

we decided to deflate our

39:14

prices due to not hating you. That's

39:16

right. We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month

39:18

to just $15 a month. Give

39:22

it a try at mintmobile.com/switch.

39:25

$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New

39:27

customers on first three month plan only. Excess and fees extra.

39:29

Speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details.