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and Conditions Apply. In me a parenting

1:01

issue everyone struggles with, with tweens and

1:04

teens, but no one talks about. Rina,

1:06

I think a lot of people feel

1:08

like they just don't know how to

1:11

connect to their kid anymore. I'm Rina

1:13

Nyen and welcome to

1:15

Ask Lisa, the Psychology

1:17

of Parenting Podcast. And

1:19

I'm Dr. Lisa Damore.

1:21

We bring you science-back

1:23

strategies for managing anxiety,

1:25

discipline, intense emotions,

1:27

and more. We decode

1:29

tough parenting challenges with

1:32

tips that you can

1:34

use right now. So

1:36

subscribe to Ask Lisa,

1:38

the psychology of parenting

1:40

podcast, and join

1:42

our YouTube community today.

1:44

We're here to help

1:46

you untangle family life. So

1:54

how many books have you

1:56

written now at this point? Well

1:58

three... commercial books, untangled, under pressure,

2:00

and the emotional lives of teenagers.

2:03

But Rina, you know in a

2:05

past life, I wrote academic books,

2:07

also textbooks and books about teaching,

2:09

and those have gone into a

2:11

bunch of editions. So just a

2:13

lot of books at this point.

2:15

A decent number. Can I just

2:17

say you are, which most of

2:19

our audience knows, a fabulous writer.

2:22

And you have decided to revise

2:24

and update, untangled. Tell me and

2:26

when you first wrote it and

2:28

why you wrote it. So it

2:30

published in 2016, which means that I

2:32

turned it into my editor in 2015.

2:34

So it's been 10 years since I

2:37

worked on this manuscript. And Rina, at

2:39

that time, I was doing two things.

2:41

I was caring for a lot of

2:44

teenagers in my practice, largely

2:46

teenage girls, and I was

2:48

an instructor at Case Western

2:51

Reserve University's clinical psychology program.

2:53

I was teaching graduate students

2:55

how to be psychologists.

2:58

I kept running into two problems, one

3:00

in each category. With the families

3:02

in my practice, I kept thinking,

3:04

gosh, you know what people could

3:06

really use? They could use a

3:08

book about typical and expectable development

3:10

in girls, and I can't find it. So

3:12

I started thinking about writing it.

3:14

And then with my graduate students, I

3:17

was running into the problem. That is,

3:19

as is often the case, their training

3:21

cases were very complex. This is

3:23

just the nature of how we

3:25

do graduate training. You end up

3:27

caring for families at a very,

3:29

very low fee clinic, which usually

3:31

means their lives are challenging and

3:33

there's a lot going on. And

3:36

it creates this terrible irony both

3:38

for the client and the clinician

3:40

of the most junior clinicians caring

3:42

for the most complex cases. And

3:44

so I was trying to help

3:46

my graduate students wrap their head

3:48

around teenagers and know what to focus

3:50

on. And that's how it started. Yeah. You

3:52

know, I was trying to figure out what

3:54

it was like a decade ago because someone

3:56

just happened in one decade of parenting. And

3:59

I found this to... from Pew Research

4:01

Center. It said 61% of parents

4:03

in 2015 said parenting was harder

4:05

than they expected. I bet that

4:07

would be a lot higher now,

4:09

Rina. Totally, I actually think so,

4:11

but you know I also feel

4:13

like we weren't really talking about

4:16

parenting 10 years ago, were we?

4:18

We weren't actually not garden

4:20

variety parenting so much. Like when I

4:22

was looking for the book I wish

4:24

existed. there was a book like if

4:26

your kid is very depressed or there

4:28

was a book if your kid is

4:31

self-arming and those are all incredibly important

4:33

and needed but I just couldn't find

4:35

like but what about the book that

4:37

just tells you what's going to happen

4:39

like what to expect when you're expecting

4:41

an adolescent girl you know that that's

4:44

not easy on its own but there wasn't a lot

4:46

about that. Yeah so it's been 10 years what

4:48

do you think has changed in those 10 years

4:50

that made you decide you know what I think

4:52

we're going to do sort of a revamp and

4:54

a rewrite right on this? So some things have

4:56

changed and we will come to this.

4:59

I will say much has not changed

5:01

and much of the book is exactly

5:03

as it was before. People like that

5:05

book. It's had a very strong following

5:07

is really what it's had. People are...

5:10

like love that book. People do. And

5:12

so I was like I'm not going

5:14

to mess with it all that much.

5:16

Mostly what I have done is add

5:19

things. But the core of the book,

5:21

which is that it's organized around these

5:23

seven developmental tasks of being a teenager,

5:25

that is unchanged. The chapter structure is

5:28

unchanged and most of what's in the

5:30

chapters, is the same. Here is

5:32

what has changed. In the

5:34

time since I wrote that

5:36

book, algorithmic social media has

5:38

come on the scene. The

5:40

social lives of kids were

5:42

very much changed by the

5:44

pandemic. The way kids socialize

5:46

their anxieties about socializing, the

5:48

legalization of cannabis was not

5:51

even a thing 10 years

5:53

ago and is now very

5:55

widespread and has real implications

5:57

for teenagers. fentanyl. has

6:00

come on the scene. So there are

6:02

some very new and real forces that

6:04

parents of teenagers need to be thinking

6:06

about. So interesting because I remember us

6:08

talking about doing the first episode on

6:10

marijuana being legalized in states and you

6:12

said this is going to be a

6:14

big deal. This is going to be

6:16

a big deal. It's going to change

6:19

norms and we ended up doing a

6:21

whole episode. But now you're walking me

6:23

through all the changes. I get now

6:25

why you really want to rewrite this

6:27

book. How did you structure that? Like

6:29

what did you want parents to get

6:31

from that book? So the way the

6:33

original is structured is that it's guiding

6:35

teenage girls through the seven transitions into

6:37

adulthood. And the way I built it

6:40

was that there are seven jobs that

6:42

teenagers have and they have to do

6:44

them in order to have like a

6:46

healthy adolescence and do all the tasks

6:48

of adolescence. And each job is a

6:50

chapter in the book and here they

6:52

are in order. So parting with childhood,

6:55

joining a new pack, harnessing emotions.

6:57

contending with adult authority,

6:59

planning for the future, entering

7:01

the romantic world, and caring

7:03

for herself. Wow. And that's, if you

7:05

do those things, you've got an adult on

7:07

your hand. I mean, it sounds great, and

7:10

it is a great book, but I'm now

7:12

that I'm thinking about, I'm like, well, how

7:14

did you come up with those chapters? And

7:16

like, this is what you need to master.

7:18

It's funny, I think I was just

7:21

like so, and I still am to

7:23

a degree still so like immersed in

7:25

teenagers in teenagers in teenagers, that I

7:27

took all the things that are hard

7:29

and that I'm watching them work their

7:31

way through and those chapters sort of

7:33

revealed themselves to me. But, Reena, it's

7:35

funny, actually, now that you say it,

7:37

I remember when I was, you know, working

7:39

on it with my editor, I just

7:41

adore my editor. I've had the same

7:43

editor the whole time. And she kept

7:45

saying, now these developmental transitions, like, are

7:47

they happening in an order or are

7:49

they happening all at once? And I

7:51

kept saying to her, yes, yes to

7:54

both. Right, like, this is the order

7:56

of the chapters. It's as clear as

7:58

day in my mind. And Ellen. of

8:00

this run all through adolescence

8:02

and reading it was so

8:04

funny only after it published

8:06

did I stand back and go

8:08

oh my gosh look at that chapter

8:11

one parting with childhood

8:13

in their sixth grade

8:15

chapter two joining a

8:17

new pack sixth or

8:19

seventh grade chapter three

8:21

harnessing emotions seventh or

8:23

eighth grade chapter four

8:25

contending with adult authority

8:28

eighth or ninth grade Right? Wow.

8:30

Chapter six, entering the romantic world, can

8:32

show up anywhere. We'll come back to

8:34

that. And chapter seven, preparing, you know,

8:36

being able to care for themselves. You

8:38

got to be able to do that

8:41

by 11th or 12th grade if you're

8:43

going to go on and leave home.

8:45

That wasn't conscious. No, weirdly it was

8:47

not. Even though I had to get

8:49

the testament to how good you are

8:51

and how you know your work inside

8:53

out. You know, the concepts of this

8:55

book. I just sort of feel having

8:57

a boy and a girl, it's, I

9:00

know what you're focused on, on girls, adolescent

9:02

girls, but I feel like so much of

9:04

it applies to boys as well. 100% it's

9:06

funny, you mean, after it published, it's

9:09

so funny to like take something like

9:11

this, it's so closely held, it's like

9:13

my own, like, yeah. intellectual and emotional

9:15

diary is like pressed into these pages.

9:17

Yeah. And then you put it out

9:20

in the world and to have people

9:22

then talk to you about your book.

9:24

It's like having people talk to you

9:26

about your kids, right? I mean, it's really

9:28

powerful. Yeah. And so many people have

9:31

said to me, 80% of this book

9:33

applied to my son or 80% applies

9:35

to kids of all genders, which I

9:37

completely agree with. And as you hear

9:39

the tasks, like these are the same

9:41

tasks you and I work doing, right?

9:43

you know, what kids need to work their way

9:45

through. I want to pause and take a break,

9:47

but on the other side of this break,

9:49

Lisa, I want to ask you, what really

9:52

hasn't changed in 10 years? We'll be right back.

9:54

You're listening to Ask Lisa, the

9:56

psychology of parenting. What's

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Hey parents, have you ever

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tackle the topic you're searching for.

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So whether you're wondering how to

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10:59

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to figure out how to best

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stress, Rosalie is here 24-7 to

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Dr. Lisa damore.com and meet Rosalie

11:15

today. Rosalie makes parenting just a

11:17

little bit easier. One question at

11:20

a time. Welcome

11:22

back to Lisa, the psychology of parenting.

11:24

It is pub date as they call

11:27

it in the book world, publishing date

11:29

for Lisa. It is a brand new

11:31

book, a brand new revised edition of

11:33

Untangled, a book that Lisa published 10

11:35

years ago. Can you believe it? Well,

11:38

it published 9, handed in 10, but

11:40

basically it's 10 years old, and it

11:42

was time. So. Yeah, what hasn't changed?

11:44

Tell me, yeah, you know, before the

11:47

break, I was just saying, I want

11:49

to ask you, what do you feel

11:51

those 10 years really hasn't changed?

11:53

I think most of it. I think

11:55

most of it, really. Yeah, and I'm

11:57

glad about that. I think in some ways...

12:01

Untangle may be more useful

12:03

now than it's ever been. And the

12:05

reason for that is I think people

12:08

are so anxious about the impact of

12:10

the pandemic on their kids' development. Yes,

12:12

big time. Right. Like so like, oh

12:14

my gosh, did the pandemic break my

12:17

kid? Did the pandemic change the course

12:19

of their development? Yeah. And I can

12:21

tell you, it was so wonderful to

12:23

go back and I haven't, I don't

12:26

read my own books, right? I don't

12:28

go back and look my own books,

12:30

right. But to like revise it, like

12:33

you have to reread it. And

12:35

there was something so heartening to

12:37

be like, oh, this is all

12:39

still true. It's been challenging forever

12:41

to have a teenager. It's been

12:43

challenging forever to be a teenager.

12:45

And so I think in many

12:47

ways, the value of entangled now,

12:49

given that I really only changed

12:51

some pieces of it and mostly

12:54

added to it, is that I hope

12:56

parents take comfort. In reading,

12:58

my description of typical adolescent

13:00

development that is literally 10

13:03

years old and being like,

13:05

oh, pre-pandemic teenagers did X and

13:07

Y and Z, and it's not

13:09

that there's something wrong with my

13:11

kid or not that something got

13:14

knocked off course, this is the

13:16

normal and expectable bumps along the

13:18

highway of being a teenager. Is there

13:20

anything from the first edition book that

13:22

you feel... still stands a test of

13:24

time. I mean, you do so many

13:27

speaking engagements. Do you hear one thing

13:29

from the book that parents keep saying

13:31

over and over again? I do, actually.

13:33

And I can tell from their face

13:35

what they're about to say to them.

13:38

No way! What is it? So I

13:40

have a metaphor in the book that

13:42

I almost didn't include, because it's kind

13:44

of long and belabored. It's the swimming

13:46

pool metaphor. So here it is. So this

13:48

metaphor is about how kids... become increasingly independent

13:51

over time, and the fact that they don't

13:53

do it in a linear fashion, that it's

13:55

a back and forth, back and forth. So

13:57

the metaphor, which like truly renal,

13:59

like it is belabored and not how

14:02

we like to do things. I know

14:04

I love it. So the metaphor is

14:06

this, which is think of the, you

14:08

know, the water is the world, the

14:10

swimmer is your girl, and the pool

14:13

is you holding it all together. Okay,

14:15

where do swimmers want to be? They

14:17

want to be out in the water.

14:19

They want to be splashing around. They

14:21

want to be playing with their friends.

14:24

They want to be working out. But

14:26

then something goes out. But then

14:28

something, you know. disrupts them

14:30

and they feel like they're drowning

14:32

and so they come to the wall

14:34

right and they cling to the

14:36

wall to get their breath back.

14:38

Okay what this looks like in

14:40

family life is your kid who

14:42

has not acknowledged your existence for

14:44

days is suddenly upset about something and

14:47

close to you often literally with a

14:49

physical draping you know cuddling being nearby

14:51

and telling you things and trying to

14:53

get their breath back. Okay, the kids

14:55

upset. Usually the parents experience of this

14:57

is like, this is fantastic, like you're

14:59

talking to me. I remember I was

15:01

like, with my older daughter, I was

15:04

like, I get to touch your hair

15:06

under these conditions, like this is really

15:08

special. Okay, so the parents living it

15:10

up, here's the kids experience. They get

15:12

their breath back and they are just like that kid

15:14

at the edge of the edge of the pool where they're

15:16

like, oh, wait, wait, never mind, I'm fine. Right. I

15:19

felt like I was drowning. Turns out

15:21

I'm fine. I got my breath back.

15:23

And then for the teenager, they're like,

15:25

oh my gosh, this feels so babyish.

15:27

I am like clinging to the edge

15:29

like a baby. I am out of

15:31

here. And so they shove off. And

15:33

often they do it in a not

15:35

nice way. Right. They might be like,

15:37

is that really what you wore today?

15:39

Or, you know, your breath. It doesn't

15:41

smell bad, but maybe weird. And then

15:43

they're gone. Okay. The experience

15:46

of the parent is my kid has

15:48

been ignoring me, my kid just got

15:50

really close and it was wonderful, and

15:52

then my kid kicked me in the

15:54

stomach. Not a good experience, feels really

15:56

bad. The goal of the swimming pool metaphor

15:58

is not so that that I teach you

16:00

how to then not have this happen.

16:03

This is gonna happen. Your kid needs

16:05

to come and go and suit their

16:07

needs. It is number one, so you're

16:09

not too surprised. Number two, so

16:11

it doesn't feel personal. And number

16:14

three, to also empower you to say like,

16:16

you know what, that was mean. That was

16:18

right. But to not make it bigger than

16:20

it has to be. So I will tell

16:22

you, you mean, that metaphor. I've had so

16:24

many people come up and say, like, that

16:26

got us through. Like, that really got us

16:28

through. So I sort of feel like I could

16:30

have retired on that metaphor. Oh, you know,

16:32

it is so good, but it's so funny.

16:35

As you're repeating, it's coming back to me.

16:37

And I remember exactly how I felt when

16:39

I first read it, because my kids were

16:42

very little. You know, they were like, actually,

16:44

probably just learning how to swim. And I

16:46

think that's why I was so resonant to

16:48

me. I was nowhere near the teenage years

16:51

and now hearing you say it, I have

16:53

a totally different reaction to that metaphor now.

16:55

Isn't that funny? And I'll tell you something

16:57

else I hear. It's funny that you ask,

17:00

like, what do I hear? There's two

17:02

more things I hear all the time. One

17:04

is that people reread it. That they're sort

17:06

of, like, they keep it on a loop,

17:08

either in their car or in their lives.

17:11

And I think it's the same thing, like,

17:13

like, your kid is changing, all the all

17:15

the all the time, And the other thing,

17:17

and this is related, is that it lives

17:19

on their bedside table. Totally. That it's just

17:22

there. Yes. And I think part of the

17:24

reason is there are so many pieces that

17:26

are relevant, like just now hearing you say

17:28

that, then I'm like, oh my gosh, I

17:30

can really use that now. But my kids

17:33

were really little when I read it. And

17:35

so. I understood the clinging to the, but

17:37

I don't think I understood the being mean

17:39

and going back and swimming yet, you know.

17:41

Yeah. Well, and this is funny, Rina. I

17:43

had a mom come up to me

17:46

once. She was like, oh, that swimming

17:48

pool thing? My 17-year-old son does

17:50

it. So here's what she said.

17:52

She said, here's how my 17-year-old

17:55

son does it. She said, you

17:57

know, he will ignore us for

17:59

days. And of course she is like

18:01

in heaven. So she's rubbing his back

18:03

and then she said, and then he

18:05

will stand up and leave without a word.

18:08

And she said, I used to be

18:10

so hurt by this and so bothered

18:12

by this. And now when he comes

18:14

and I'm rubbing his back, my husband

18:17

looks over me at wordlessly he mouths

18:19

swimming pool. Oh, no way. And she

18:21

said, and what it means is, and

18:23

this is also the value of that

18:26

metaphor, I savor it. I savor it.

18:28

Right, like I take what I'm getting

18:30

what I'm getting. in terms of the

18:32

closeness with him, knowing that in any

18:35

moment he will feel restored, this will

18:37

suddenly feel regressive to him and

18:39

he's going to need to be out

18:41

of there. It's so interesting

18:43

because I'm just processing this

18:46

in such a different way

18:48

with middle schoolers and the

18:50

coming and going. You know, I

18:52

really thought that you rewrote this

18:55

book because we had gone through the

18:57

pandemic. and so much change. So when you

18:59

told me we were doing this, I go,

19:01

yeah, of course it is. You're going to

19:04

update it with, but to hear you say

19:06

that you really feel like the basics of

19:08

parenting really haven't changed in 10 years. Tell

19:10

me more about that. Yeah, no, I would

19:13

say that basics are very similar and the

19:15

construction of Untangle, it's funny. I will tell

19:17

you, Rina, like I look back and I'm

19:19

sort of surprised that I built it as

19:22

well as well as well as I did,

19:24

right as well as I did, right. the

19:26

way it works is it's a whole

19:28

bunch of sections of like all

19:30

the rich and spicy business that is

19:33

totally normal right all of the things

19:35

your kids going to do that are

19:37

going to rub you the wrong

19:39

way or seem strange with a rationale

19:42

for why they are important to that

19:44

developmental phase and then at the end

19:46

of every section there's a

19:48

when-to-worry section yeah and and

19:50

I had somebody another clinician say

19:53

to me you know this is

19:55

really helpful Here's where to worry. Yeah.

19:57

And it was so freeing in writing it

19:59

to come. with that construction

20:01

because then I was like, oh, this is

20:03

actually the most reassuring thing I

20:06

can offer people is to tell them

20:08

exactly when I want them to worry

20:10

because if you know that you can

20:12

relax. So the, you know, structure,

20:15

the big structure is the same,

20:17

much of the typical and expectable

20:19

stuff is the same, the window

20:21

worries are largely the same, the thing

20:24

that is different. is the landscape

20:26

of some of the risks

20:28

for kids. Algorithms, Rina, those

20:30

are game changers. And you talk about

20:32

that in this book. I do, right?

20:34

Those were not on the scene when

20:36

I wrote this book and the peer

20:38

stuff. So in terms of the pandemic

20:41

aftermath, and I don't really talk a

20:43

lot about the pandemic because I think

20:45

we have moved on and I think

20:47

there is a wish to move on

20:49

and we should move on. Yes. But

20:51

one thing I will tell you. And

20:53

you know I'm pretty cautious about

20:56

saying, like, here's something that I

20:58

think is at work in the

21:00

field. Like I really don't like

21:02

to get out ahead of my

21:04

data. Kids are more brittle

21:06

in their peer relationships than

21:08

they were. Like, you've seen

21:11

this, right? Like, more anxious,

21:13

less tolerant of one another.

21:15

And so I did add. quite

21:17

a bit of content around helping kids

21:19

manage a sense of being left out

21:21

or a sense of not being included

21:24

or being pushed away or longing to

21:26

be part of something that they're not

21:28

invited into because I hear that so much more.

21:32

a little secret into our podcast that

21:34

Untangle played a huge role because the

21:36

when to worry chapter was what always

21:38

stood out to me in that book.

21:41

And so much of our approach in

21:43

this podcast, you might notice when we

21:45

talk about topics, it comes from this

21:47

very book about, you know, we kind of

21:49

work in like, so, okay, this is the

21:51

issue, but when should we as parents really

21:54

worry about this? Like, when is it an

21:56

issue? And isn't that what we need, right?

21:58

We need both? You are not alone. in the

22:00

challenging garden variety of raising

22:03

a teenager and it's scary

22:05

at times to raise a

22:07

teenager and so you're not alone

22:09

in having to figure out when

22:11

you need to bring on extra

22:13

help. And I think, you know,

22:15

Rina, it's so fun to sort

22:17

of step back with you and

22:20

like think about the book and

22:22

think about the podcast because the

22:24

other way, I think part of

22:26

why this book gained the traction

22:28

it did. Is it parenting a

22:30

teenager is a terribly lonely thing? Your

22:33

kid is changing. Your kid is not

22:35

as kind to you often as they were.

22:37

You feel more at a distance right at

22:39

a moment when you feel like you actually

22:41

want to be closer than ever because there's

22:43

so much that can go awry. And you

22:45

can't talk about it with your peers like

22:47

you used to. Like you know how like when

22:49

your kid was little and like potty

22:52

training was not going well? Yeah. You

22:54

could be on the playground talking about

22:56

it with everybody with everybody. That

22:58

is such a good point. In the teenage

23:00

years, you feel alone. Not everyone's going through

23:02

the same stuff you are. Right. Or you're

23:04

like, I can't tell if this is a

23:07

problem, and I don't want to, you know,

23:09

I feel ashamed, and so I'm not

23:11

going to bring it up. Or, and

23:13

this is the real difference between toddlers

23:15

and teenagers, you are appropriately respecting your

23:18

kid's privacy. So with your toddler, you

23:20

can be like, we're having major problems

23:22

with toilet training with toilet training.

23:24

But if it's your teenager, you can't

23:27

be like, my kid's in a fetal

23:29

position on the kitchen floor three nights

23:31

a week. Is this normal? Right? Because

23:33

you feel appropriately protective of your kids'

23:35

privacy. What a great point. What a

23:37

great point. The difference between parenting toddlers

23:40

and parenting teens and why that's

23:42

so important. I want to talk

23:44

to you a little bit about

23:46

technology though. You know, parenting today

23:48

undeniably, there's so much technology involved

23:50

in a way that there wasn't

23:52

before. Recent research shows 95%

23:54

of teens now have access

23:56

to a smartphone in 2015.

23:58

It was 73%. It's a

24:01

pretty significant jump. What would

24:03

you say? What is your advice with teens

24:05

and technology? Because boy, am I, I thought

24:07

I did it well, and then we have

24:09

moments of like eight hours a day on

24:12

our phone, and I'm just like, what could

24:14

you do? And then they pull my phone

24:16

and show that I was on 13th. Well,

24:18

actually, that is interesting, I mean, that you

24:21

mentioned that you mentioned that because one. I

24:23

mean, I've been caring for families

24:25

for 30 years, so I got

24:27

to be there from the very

24:30

beginning of digital technology coming into

24:32

everybody's lives. And there was, and

24:34

when I wrote the original Entangled,

24:37

there was more of a gap

24:39

between kids' use and parents' use.

24:42

So I remember when my space

24:44

came on the scene, I don't even

24:46

know if you remember that, but kids

24:48

found my space, and they were using

24:51

that. And their families did not have

24:53

any social media, did not use

24:55

it. So we have the advantage

24:57

now that today's parents themselves

24:59

are social media users. We're not

25:02

quite at the age where they

25:04

are native social media users. Like

25:06

they, you know, they came to

25:08

it in adulthood. Soon, Rina, and

25:10

I'm hopeful we can be around

25:13

to help these families. There will be

25:15

parents who themselves had social media

25:17

and adolescents who are raising teenagers

25:19

with social media. Like that will

25:21

be a really interesting shift in

25:23

the landscape. But this has changed.

25:25

The adults use of it has

25:27

changed. I think in many ways we

25:29

can be more empathic and aware of

25:31

what kids are up to because

25:34

we ourselves use it. And also

25:36

it has gotten so much more

25:38

forceful. When I think about the

25:40

algorithm and I think about its

25:42

impact on teenagers. Words like forceful,

25:44

sticky, but more like forceful, feel

25:46

really important to recognize that in

25:48

2015 when I submitted this manuscript,

25:50

your feed was what your friends

25:53

put up, I think, in order.

25:55

And now feeds are a completely

25:57

different ballgame that are driven

25:59

by... the social media platforms need to

26:02

make money and putting in front of

26:04

us wildly gripping content whether it's

26:06

good or bad for us or good

26:08

about for our kids to make that happen.

26:10

There's so much in here and you're telling me

26:12

all this new stuff that you know you've

26:14

added in the book then I'm like okay

26:16

I got a got a now and it's gonna

26:18

be another one by the nightstand table I

26:20

want to ask you though if parents have

26:23

the first edition book should they also buy

26:25

this book? Not necessarily. I mean, you're

26:27

telling me all this stuff. I'm

26:29

like, yeah, I need to know

26:31

this. I'm sure my publisher is

26:33

like, please don't tell people not by

26:35

your book. No author has ever, words

26:38

spoken by no author ever. Yeah.

26:40

But this is what I love

26:42

about you. You're always so

26:44

straight. You give it to people

26:46

straight. Even. Well, so here's

26:48

what I would say. If you

26:50

are anxious about vaping, algorithms, fentanyl,

26:53

the legalization. pure relationship

26:55

and you want to see how

26:57

I am thinking this through in

27:00

the book, it's worth maybe buying the

27:02

book. Also, Rina, our listeners know, these

27:04

are things we cover very, very well

27:06

here on the podcast. And so, the

27:09

buying the book is not the only

27:11

option. And the only thing I will say

27:13

is, if you don't buy the new book,

27:15

which is 100% fine with me, just

27:17

don't be surprised that every once in

27:20

a while when you're reading the original,

27:22

there will be a bit of a

27:24

clang. And it is a little bit. Like

27:26

I really try to buy the book

27:29

people. Lisa's long-term publisher, who I love,

27:31

Lisa, go buy the book folks. Gail,

27:33

I'm going to save this for you

27:35

because you were just telling me all

27:37

this great stuff on technology and there's

27:40

good stuff in it. I feel very

27:42

proud of the revision and I wouldn't

27:44

have done it if I didn't think

27:46

it needed to happen. But I also

27:48

feel very aware that, you know. People

27:51

have a lot of things they come

27:53

by and I'm not sure they need

27:55

two copies of this book. Yes, you

27:57

do. Yes, you do. No, I think

27:59

you know, I'm just curious when you

28:01

decided to revise it? What was that

28:03

process like? I mean, were there really

28:05

interesting? Like how did you? Well so

28:08

what I first thing I did is

28:10

I just sat down and I read

28:12

through the whole manuscript and I just

28:14

caught stuff like little things. There's things

28:16

that people won't even pick up where

28:19

I just I'm like oh I don't

28:21

use that language anymore. I used to

28:23

use crazy as a way to talk

28:25

about things and I just don't feel

28:27

like it um... It can feel unkind.

28:30

You know, I think, this is a

28:32

standard I hold for myself as a

28:34

clinician. I don't react strongly if other

28:36

people choose to use it, but I

28:39

don't use it in the book anymore.

28:41

And so I took that out and

28:43

replaced it with other things unless I

28:45

was quoting somebody. So places where, you

28:47

know, just the way we use language

28:50

evolves over time. And so I caught

28:52

those things and made some adjustments. I

28:54

had... something about going to the mall.

28:56

Just don't really go to the mall

28:59

anymore. So it was sort of fun,

29:01

like these... Anthropological as well. Exactly, like

29:03

these itty bitty things that I was

29:05

like, yeah, that's a clying, I'm going

29:07

to fix that. And then I sketched

29:10

out what I knew needed to be

29:12

added, and then in some places what

29:14

needed to be added actually replaced what

29:16

was there, or was integrated with what

29:19

was there. But it was really kind

29:21

of a wonderful process. It was a

29:23

wonderful process and I don't see myself

29:25

doing it again. You never know because

29:27

I'm really embarrassed to tell you I

29:30

came down today and this is a

29:32

book that I have under pressure. Yeah,

29:34

right? And how embarrassed you can see

29:36

if you're watching our YouTube channel. It's

29:38

got all sorts of gunk on it.

29:41

Yeah, it's but look at that. I

29:43

love it. It's just really beat down.

29:45

And I've got something bookmarked in there

29:47

that I don't even know what. But

29:50

I mean, these are how your books

29:52

are used, I will tell you. And

29:54

not just as someone who's. to produce

29:56

your podcast, but I just feel like

29:58

this is food for the soul of

30:01

parents who don't know when we should

30:03

be worried or even just putting it

30:05

on their radar, you know, like your

30:07

kids need sleep. I know that, but

30:10

to hear you say it over and

30:12

over and over again in our episodes

30:14

makes me then realize I also need

30:16

to sleep. So I feel like, you

30:18

know, it just, you are untangling family

30:21

life. What more can I say? That's

30:23

it. Well, that is very kind and

30:25

what I will say above all is

30:27

this is not the career I thought

30:30

I'd have. I thought I would be

30:32

taking care of people in my practice

30:34

and teaching college and that would be

30:36

the sum of it. But I'm very,

30:38

very, very grateful that my path has

30:41

taken me in a way that I

30:43

get to be of use to more

30:45

people. And I get to do that

30:47

with you through our podcast and from

30:49

time to time through a book. Well,

30:52

we are all grateful and I just

30:54

got to say thank you for updating

30:56

it because it was fun to sort

30:58

of hear from you how you did

31:01

it in the process and what is

31:03

new in there and I want to

31:05

tell everyone Go get the book. It's

31:07

the new revised edition of Untangled out

31:09

today, and let me tell you it

31:12

is like my favorite gift to give

31:14

people I did a lot of under

31:16

pressure, but I just have an Amazon

31:18

cart where I'm just constantly sending people

31:21

sending people and they're like discovered it

31:23

yet. It's great. Thank you so much

31:25

Lisa and thank you for all that

31:27

you do. Thank you. So do you

31:29

have a parenting to go for us

31:32

today? I'll focus on the book since

31:34

that's what we're talking about. One thing

31:36

I want people to know is it's

31:38

built in sections. You don't have to

31:41

read the whole thing. I tried to

31:43

make it sort of just in time

31:45

for people and so every chapter is

31:47

divided into a whole bunch of sections

31:49

with headings that tell you what that

31:52

little sections about. And so... If

31:54

you're interested in reading it, you can

31:57

dip in and dip out and get

31:59

just what you need. And the point

32:01

here being, it's really hard to raise

32:04

a teenager. And you don't always have

32:06

the time and the leisure to sit

32:08

down and just take in a whole

32:11

book and see what's there. And so

32:13

I hope that through our podcast and

32:15

through our social media and all the

32:18

ways we do things, that we put

32:20

things in front of families that are

32:22

what they can ingest at any given

32:25

time and get some what they need

32:27

when they need it in the scale

32:29

that they can integrate in that moment.

32:32

That's beautiful. You can get the book

32:34

out today. Thanks so much Lisa. It

32:36

was great to hear the backstory and

32:39

all of this. Fun to share it.

32:41

And next week Lisa, we're going to

32:43

talk about how can you roll back

32:45

our kids' technology use, especially after they've

32:48

been using technology for some time. I'll

32:50

see you next week. Thanks for joining

32:52

us. Be sure to subscribe to the

32:55

Ask Lisa podcast so you get the

32:57

episodes just as soon as they drop.

32:59

And send us your questions to Ask

33:02

Lisa at Dr. Lisa damore.com. And now

33:04

a word from our lawyers. The advice

33:06

provided on this podcast does not constitute

33:09

or serve as a substitute for professional

33:11

psychological treatment, therapy, or other types of

33:13

professional advice or intervention. If you have

33:16

concerns about your child's well-being, consult a

33:18

physician or mental health professional. If you're

33:20

looking for additional resources, check at Lisa's

33:23

website at Dr. Lisa demore.com.