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Tell me a parenting issue everyone struggles

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with, with tweens and teens, but no

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know how to connect to their kid anymore.

0:13

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0:43

Episode 216, how do we

0:45

get kids to stop fat -shaming? I

0:55

tell you, I don't know if I'm in

0:57

perimenopause or not, but this sort of

0:59

one time I feel like I've just gained

1:01

20 pounds, like I don't know what it

1:03

is. My new thing though, I put in

1:05

warm water, flax seeds and mix it and drink it. Do

1:07

you grind them up? Are they ground? Yeah, they have

1:09

to be ground, otherwise you get none of the benefits. They

1:11

just go right through your system. So you know about

1:14

this. Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of flax seeds. Why

1:16

would you me? I use them in my smoothies. I

1:18

put them in my smoothies. In your smoothies. Okay, yeah, you

1:20

are a big smoothie. You do love your smoothies. But

1:22

I'm so glad we're talking about this episode

1:24

because it's talking about fat shaming, but

1:27

sometimes I don't realize I am

1:29

talking about my weight and things

1:31

and I don't realize maybe that affects my

1:33

children in how they see it, right? So

1:35

I want to get to this letter and there's so much I want to break down.

1:38

Hi, Dr. Lisa and Rina. I am

1:40

the director of counseling at a

1:42

girl's school working specifically with upper school

1:44

girls. We're noticing an increasing trend

1:46

of fat shaming language, which seems to

1:48

have become normalized among teens. quote,

1:51

big back trend on TikTok is

1:53

huge. We also hear about girls

1:55

openly calling each other, quote, fatty

1:57

or pig, et cetera, when

1:59

around food. This is highly concerning.

2:01

And I've had multiple girls come into my

2:03

office to share how painful it is for

2:05

them. Even when they speak up to tell

2:08

the offending speakers this, they're not taken

2:10

seriously because this trend has become

2:12

so widespread. I would love to

2:14

hear you address this topic. Parents,

2:16

schools, and also kids need some guidance.

2:19

on how to grow through this trend. Thank

2:21

you. Okay, I had no

2:23

idea. Tell me about this trend. What is

2:25

it? Who's doing it? Well,

2:27

I will say, I've been sort of like

2:29

kind of aware of it. I have

2:31

not heard it described in such a pointed

2:33

way as this letter brings across. Okay,

2:36

so here's what I know, Reena. And

2:38

knowing we were gonna dive into this, I

2:41

sort of asked around and asked the

2:43

teenagers that I go to for like what

2:45

is happening here. So it's

2:47

interesting because the letter writer

2:49

talks about norms, trends, and

2:51

that hints at social media. And I think

2:53

actually social media is a major, major player

2:55

here. And what I

2:57

am hearing from teenagers, especially girls, though

2:59

this is not just a girl phenomenon, is

3:02

that commentary on

3:05

one's body in social media

3:07

environments is a very,

3:09

very common thing. And

3:11

it takes on this

3:13

layered and complex and dynamic

3:15

unfolding But the kinds of

3:17

examples I got were things of like, you know, a

3:20

girl taking a video of

3:22

herself eating a really low

3:24

calorie lunch. And like,

3:26

here's my, you know, low calorie lunch

3:28

and catch me this summer with

3:30

no cover up on. And

3:32

then kids making videos responding to that

3:34

video, like, you know, a girl,

3:36

you know, who's eating like ice cream

3:38

sundae, like, here's my lunch, catch

3:41

me this summer in my cover up.

3:43

Right. So it's not. It's

3:45

not always on the nose

3:47

like straight up fat shaming but there's

3:49

just a huge amount of content

3:51

about like this is my body and

3:53

I'm gonna own it even though

3:55

you were all criticizing it or this

3:57

is my body and I'm modifying

3:59

it and then you're all gonna be jealous,

4:01

right? I mean like there's just like

4:03

take those two little examples

4:05

I gave you and

4:08

imagine 40 versions of this

4:10

times. a thousand, right? And

4:12

then it gets to what this

4:14

letter writer's talking about and what we

4:16

talk about is norms, norms, norms,

4:18

norms. When teenagers are exposed to gobs

4:20

of something, it shifts

4:22

what they think is acceptable. And

4:25

so if you really want to know what I

4:27

think is going on, even though you know I

4:29

am not fast to blame social media for stuff,

4:32

I do think what is

4:34

going on is all of

4:36

this content on social media

4:38

has normalized shaming oneself. And

4:41

it also sounds like shaming others. Why

4:44

do you think kids are doing this? It's

4:47

so, like, yeah, like it's

4:49

one thing to like see it online, right?

4:53

And it's one thing to even be like,

4:55

oh, people do this, right? Like people

4:57

do this and it's normed. But to turn

4:59

around and actually enact it at school. And

5:02

in front of others, this is clearly

5:04

happening. And I pulled some of the

5:06

research on weight -based victimization. This happens

5:08

in public spaces. This is not something

5:10

that's usually done to the side. I

5:13

mean, neither is good, but It's like kids

5:15

are feeling like they're free to do this. I

5:19

can't really know,

5:21

but I think at bottom, there's this issue

5:23

of all this insecurity. This

5:25

heavy focus on bodies makes

5:27

kids insecure. And I

5:29

think when teenagers get insecure, when

5:32

anybody gets insecure, sometimes they handle

5:34

it by being hard on others

5:36

or claiming like, oh, I know

5:38

I'm, you know, fill

5:40

in the blank of some, you know,

5:42

perceived shortcoming as a way to ward off

5:44

being having other people call it on you

5:47

before you call it on yourself. I

5:50

think that's some of what's at work, but like,

5:52

it's not good. It's not good. I

5:56

know you're so good about You

5:59

know walking that line was social media. You're not

6:01

somebody who's like technology has to be removed

6:03

like you get it But how much

6:05

of this is social media and how much

6:07

of this is us not having a

6:09

conversation not addressing parenting like where do you

6:11

draw the lines on this right this

6:13

is the other thing right because It's not

6:16

like fat shaming

6:18

began Ten years ago,

6:20

right. I mean this was

6:23

in many ways part of life in

6:25

schools, I mean, probably for a

6:27

long, long time it's been true. Certainly,

6:29

I remember people talking freely about

6:31

other people's weight, being jerks about it.

6:34

I think that, here's

6:36

my recollection, let's see if it matches yours. I

6:39

think that then we got smarter

6:41

about this or more decent about this. And

6:44

I don't remember the term fat shaming, even being

6:46

a term when I was growing up. And now we

6:48

have a name for it, which is also a

6:50

way of saying like, don't, like this is wrong. So

6:56

this is to say, social

6:58

media didn't start fat

7:00

shaming, but

7:02

I think what we see a lot of

7:04

the times is that it can become an

7:06

accelerant for something that's not good. That

7:09

is a great, great thing to point

7:11

out. What are the conversations we

7:13

should be having at home about this, right?

7:15

Because sometimes I didn't even know about this trend.

7:17

Now, my children are not allowed to really

7:20

be on social media. I

7:22

don't know what they're seeing. It just makes me realize,

7:24

again, we did that great episode

7:26

on the Netflix series, Adolescents, where it kind

7:28

of worried. You and I talked about this.

7:30

I'm just worried about what I don't know

7:32

they're seeing and consuming online. So

7:34

where do we even begin to have

7:36

the conversation about weight, not just for girls,

7:38

for boys and for girls? For boys or girls. And I'll

7:40

tell you when I, in the data I pulled, it's

7:43

basically even in terms of kids

7:45

who are doing fat shaming and kids

7:47

who are on the receiving end

7:49

of fat shaming. For boys and girls.

7:51

Yeah, across genders, no differences. So

7:53

this is not isolated to a single gender

7:55

in terms of how this unfolds. So

7:58

okay, you want to start the conversation. You

8:00

want to find out where your kids are at with this,

8:03

if they're hearing this, if it's going on. When

8:05

we got this letter, I asked my eighth grader,

8:07

I was like, are you hearing any of this? And

8:09

she said, yeah, the boys do it. Really? And

8:11

she was indicating that they do it among themselves. In

8:15

what way? How does that go down? It's

8:17

funny. I didn't ask her. I didn't ask

8:19

her, but that was her immediate response. And it

8:21

was almost like she was saying, my circle

8:24

of girls is so enlightened, we don't do that

8:26

thing, but the boys are still doing it. Who

8:28

knows? That's my end of

8:31

one eighth grader in Ohio. I

8:33

don't really know. But

8:35

that's one way to start the

8:37

conversation. Are you hearing about this? Then

8:39

of course, Rina, you know, my other favorite way

8:41

to start the conversation, which we hear from so

8:43

many listeners that they do, is go ahead and

8:46

just put this episode on and listen to it

8:48

with your kid, right? I mean, that that can

8:50

be a way to get the conversation on the

8:52

table or say, so I was

8:54

listening to Lisa and Rina and the

8:56

topic today was fat -shaming and like, I

8:58

had no idea, you know, what was

9:00

going on like to this effect, like, what

9:02

do you know, right? So there's ways

9:04

to find out where your kid is

9:06

with this. And I think that That's a

9:08

great place to start, right? Just asking.

9:10

What are you seeing? What do you

9:13

know? I

9:15

want to go back to boys for a second.

9:17

Do they experience it in the same way that girls

9:20

do? You know, my

9:23

hunch is... All right, well,

9:25

it's that time of year where

9:27

everything seems so complicated, all

9:29

the practices, trying to get kids

9:31

to do homework, figuring out what's for dinner.

9:34

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parents, so if you're navigating the wild ride

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got something new for you. That's

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right. Or ask Lisa, the psychology of

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11:09

Racing teams and tweens isn't always easy,

11:11

but you don't have to do it alone.

11:19

That for boys...

11:21

falls in that

11:23

really, really hard

11:25

to police universe

11:27

of just joking. There's

11:30

a lot. Girls do

11:32

this too. And I also suspect that maybe it worked

11:34

even in this girl's school that they're like, oh, we're

11:36

just kidding. We're just playing around, which is its own

11:38

very hard thing to manage. But

11:40

boys, and we did a wonderful

11:43

episode around trash talking among boys.

11:46

There is a lot of giving each other

11:48

a hard time, or as someone who grew

11:50

up in Colorado in the 70s, 80s, giving

11:52

someone the business. Did you guys use that

11:54

term? Yeah, that was a big

11:56

term. Of course. Sometimes these are regional. No,

11:59

no, that was big in Florida too.

12:01

Yeah, so if you're giving someone the

12:03

business, that is, again,

12:05

normalized among boys, often very

12:07

painful for them. So

12:09

my hunch is girls may do

12:11

it in somebody's taking a page

12:14

out of boys books, right?

12:16

I mean, not that anybody gets, this

12:18

is terrible for everybody. I don't want to say

12:20

they're doing it better or worse or whatever. To

12:24

sort of bring this under the like, dude,

12:27

just kidding. And the thing about the

12:29

just joking thing that's so crummy

12:31

is if there's a reaction, which of

12:34

course one would expect a reaction,

12:36

then that gets diminished. Like, I was

12:38

just kidding. You're overreacting. You're

12:40

being a baby, right? And that can

12:42

happen across, all kids. Again,

12:46

we're talking about this subject, but it

12:48

still irks me. I don't know why

12:51

this has been a trigger point if

12:53

you've been listening a podcast for the

12:55

past month for me, is I'm just

12:57

more aware of what I do not

12:59

know that is going and this has

13:01

been going on for generations. Every generation

13:03

deals with stuff at school, whatever, but

13:06

I don't I'm just so much more aware that

13:08

there's so much I don't know about their online

13:10

consumption that I think I've been able to control

13:12

a great environment. But also at school, is

13:15

this something that you feel you're seeing

13:17

a lot at schools? Like, how does

13:19

this manifest? Can you give us a

13:21

sense of what you know? Actually,

13:24

I can. And this is where,

13:26

you know, like, okay. in terms of like the

13:28

universe of things I love. Okay, I love my

13:30

family. I love my friends. I love teenagers. I

13:33

love psychologists, especially the researchers

13:35

because they go ask these questions

13:37

and get answers to things

13:39

that like then suddenly you need

13:41

the answer and they've done

13:43

the work. So there was this

13:45

really terrific study that surveyed

13:47

kids who had gone to weight

13:49

loss camps. So that's how

13:51

they found their sample of kids who

13:53

had, you know, and BMI is a complex

13:55

thing, but like comparatively high BMI's. And

13:57

when they surveyed these kids, one of the questions

13:59

they asked is, like, where does this go down?

14:01

Like, how often are you subjected to weight -based

14:04

victimization? And the answer was, like, extremely. Like,

14:06

I mean, the numbers were, like, majority of kids

14:08

had experienced it. And

14:10

more than anything, it goes down at school. Like,

14:12

that is the number one place where it

14:14

happens, in person at school. And,

14:18

you know... It's more than online. More

14:20

than online. I was worried about online, but

14:22

you're saying this is at schools. It's

14:24

at schools. And what's likely, and

14:26

we see this in terms of in

14:28

real life experiences versus online experiences, kids

14:31

in real life experiences tend to mirror

14:33

what's happening online and the other way around.

14:35

So kids who are getting weight based

14:37

victimization at school are also getting it online.

14:39

Kids who have great relationships with their

14:41

friends and are having fun with them are

14:43

also doing that online. Kids who have

14:45

social troubles also have those online. But

14:48

yes, I was also surprised to

14:50

see that finding that this is

14:52

most likely to happen at school.

14:55

most likely to happen in,

14:57

you know, cafeteria, hallways,

14:59

locker rooms. That's

15:02

where we see it. It's

15:04

not just a digital experience.

15:07

So when you're talking about

15:09

this happening in schools, can

15:12

you get a sense of is

15:14

this targeted enemies? Is it targeted

15:17

friends? Like, how does this manifest?

15:19

Okay, this is super fascinating. And this is

15:21

what makes me think that like just

15:23

joking is a major player here. So

15:26

overwhelmingly, it's classmates who do

15:28

this. But like 70 % of

15:30

the kids said that this had

15:32

been done by their friends. Why?

15:35

Why are your friends bad

15:37

shaming you? That's a really good

15:39

question, right? That's a really

15:41

good question. And what it

15:43

makes me think we actually Kids

15:47

are something like their teenagers. They're so

15:49

insecure sometimes and here's here's something that

15:51

I've long watched them do that I

15:53

think is related and that we can

15:55

learn from Do you remember I also

15:57

remember we did this when I was

15:59

teenager like you know a kid would

16:01

come out of a class and like

16:03

this kid is like a superstar academically

16:05

and they're like Oh man,

16:07

I got a 98 on

16:09

that test, right? And they

16:11

are saying this in front of

16:13

kids who they know would give their

16:15

left arm for a 98 on

16:17

that test. Okay, so do

16:20

you know what I'm talking about here? 100%. Yeah.

16:22

Okay. Yeah. All right, so I think if

16:24

we could figure out why kids do that. You

16:27

have a better sense. Why

16:29

kids do this, right? Because it's like, why would

16:31

you do this? Okay, so why do kids

16:33

do stuff like this? I mean, frankly, often

16:36

it's just insecurities, right?

16:38

It's wanting to establish one's

16:40

pole position, right? And

16:42

I've asked kids, like, why do you do this?

16:44

And they're like, well, you want to just make

16:46

sure everybody's in the spots where you think they're

16:48

going to be. We have a sense of who

16:50

should be getting what scores. You're checking to make

16:53

sure that's still true. But they're

16:55

anxious. And they don't always

16:57

handle themselves well. And it can come

16:59

out in ways that are really, really hurtful.

17:01

And then it's funny, You

17:05

know, I almost never criticized teenagers,

17:07

but the one thing I will say

17:09

is like we do know that

17:11

they can be pretty egocentric and so

17:13

They can do and say things

17:15

like oh my god, I look so

17:17

bad in this Mm -hmm skirt, you

17:19

know, and this might be a

17:21

kid who is real thin. Yeah,

17:23

and You know that landing

17:25

on a kid who has anxieties

17:27

about their body and whose

17:29

body may be, you know,

17:31

not real thin. Like you

17:34

could just see like how the sort

17:36

of insecure moment of the kid who's

17:38

complaining about how her body looks could

17:40

land in such a painful way on

17:42

the kids around her. How do I

17:44

know if my child may be more

17:46

likely to be on the receiving end

17:48

of something like this? That's

17:51

a good question. Okay, so here's

17:53

what we see. in

17:55

the data. And this is actually pretty fascinating. One

17:59

thing that I wasn't that surprised

18:01

by is bigger kids get more fat

18:03

shaming. Like

18:05

they saw this correlation. Like

18:07

when kids were heavier, they were more likely to be on the

18:09

receiving end. And there

18:11

was also some data showing if the kids'

18:13

parents were heavy. Yeah.

18:16

So, I mean, this is just

18:18

very, we're

18:20

sort of taking a cold heart analytic look

18:22

at something that you just like, there's just a,

18:24

like this is miserable stuff, right? And not

18:26

good stuff. The thing

18:28

I was a bit surprised

18:30

by is also kids whose

18:33

grades are low are more

18:35

likely to get weight -based

18:37

victimization, which I was

18:39

glad they asked the question, but

18:41

I don't entirely know what to make

18:43

of it. Is it because they're

18:46

struggling in one aspect and people know

18:48

and they're using something that maybe

18:50

they think they're not struggling with? that

18:54

the kid is vulnerable. I mean,

18:56

like, you know, like that, you know,

18:58

they're not, you know, shooting the

19:00

lights out academically. And there's a decision

19:02

made that that kid is somehow

19:04

an easy target around weight questions. I

19:06

mean, that is like, that's

19:09

probably adolescents that they're worst, right?

19:11

Going after a kid who's vulnerable in

19:13

multiple ways. Something else

19:15

I was also surprised to see, if

19:18

a kid has lost

19:20

significant weight, there's still exposed

19:24

to weight -based victimization. Which

19:26

is so painful because if you've done the

19:28

work or you've been able to get into

19:30

shape that people can't, and especially if you

19:32

live in a small town or you've gone

19:34

to school with the kids, same group of

19:37

kids from elementary on, it can

19:39

be hard to shake that off. And

19:41

it's painful because you feel like you might

19:43

have accomplished something, but it's like the

19:45

kids forget. You can't get past

19:47

it. Yeah, no, so that's not good. I

19:49

also think, and we talk about this

19:51

from time to time, In

19:53

some communities, a lot of the adults

19:55

are using ozempic life drugs. And

19:58

so the research I

20:00

have predates, because

20:03

research takes so long, predates how that

20:05

involves itself. But we're coming to a

20:07

place in the culture, and I don't

20:09

even know how to begin to unpack

20:11

this, where I think that there can

20:13

be more judgment around people who do

20:15

not fit some ultra thin, ultra fit

20:17

ideal. of feeling like, well, you're making

20:19

a choice. That's

20:21

a decision you're making. And I don't

20:23

even know where to start with that.

20:25

I know. I know exactly what you

20:27

mean. So

20:29

I want to back up for a second,

20:32

Lisa. If I am a parent and I'm aware

20:34

of this now that you've done this episode, how

20:36

do I deal with it regardless

20:38

of whether it's happening or not?

20:41

Because sometimes I found with kids

20:43

of this age, they aren't even

20:45

aware of the dynamics or what

20:47

they're doing. Yeah. Well,

20:49

so let's think about it. Like, what if your

20:51

kid says, yeah, no, I get that. Like, you

20:53

know, I'm on the receiving end, right? So,

20:56

I mean, okay, so first things

20:58

first, like just empathy, empathy, empathy,

21:00

and also like reality check. Just

21:02

say that is wrong. That is

21:04

wrong. What is happening to you?

21:06

Why is that so important to

21:08

tell them that it's wrong? Because

21:12

I think a lot of times if

21:14

kids are exposed to this stuff and

21:16

it feels like, you know, everyone's doing

21:18

it and it feels like everyone thinks

21:20

it's funny, right? And or no one's

21:22

really reacting. Like nobody's like making a

21:24

big deal of it in the moment.

21:27

I think it's gonna feel like,

21:29

is it just me or like,

21:31

is this okay? And so

21:33

I think that, you know, right away,

21:35

like just to be clear, like

21:37

that is completely over the line and

21:39

never should happen. And then I

21:41

think you get into a conversation about

21:44

what level of intervention should be

21:46

considered. you know,

21:48

I feel this like about anything that gets into

21:50

the bullying neighborhood. I think it's a good place

21:52

to start with your kid and what they do

21:54

and don't want to have happen, which is not

21:56

to say the kid gets to dictate exactly what

21:58

goes down. Like the parent or caregiver may say,

22:00

you know what, I got to tell the school,

22:02

right? Like it may get to that. But I

22:04

also think it's important to first say, you know,

22:06

what have you tried? What do you want me

22:09

to try? Do you want me to say something?

22:11

You know, what what's going to

22:13

be effective here at helping you manage this

22:15

or helping make this stop? Okay.

22:18

So what if your kid is not the

22:20

victim? How do you approach the conversation? So,

22:24

assuming your kid is not the victim

22:26

and hopefully also not a perpetrator, which

22:29

I'm not quite sure how you'd ever find that out, but

22:31

if you did, we can think about what to do. I

22:34

love the playbook on what you're supposed to

22:36

do if you witness bullying. We've

22:39

talked this through. Any time

22:41

I get a chance to talk it through,

22:43

I think it is imperative that we say

22:45

to our kids, if you are standing there,

22:47

When one kid goes after another kid who

22:49

is unable to defend themselves or there's a

22:51

power imbalance, you cannot do nothing.

22:53

You have to do one of three things.

22:56

You either need to tell the kid to

22:58

do in it to knock it off, you

23:01

need to reach out to and support

23:03

the kid who's on the receiving end,

23:05

or you need to get an adult. You

23:08

don't have to do all three. You

23:10

have to do at least one. I

23:13

think this is a really

23:15

good time. to reboot that guidance.

23:18

Actually that requirement, that requirement. This

23:20

is a great, I've never had this conversation with

23:22

my kids before, ever. It's a really good conversation

23:24

to have. So the three

23:27

things are tell them to knock it off

23:29

in a moment. Yeah, which not a

23:31

lot of kids are gonna do. Because the

23:33

thing is like, you're going up against

23:35

somebody who's made it clear that they will

23:37

cross lines. So I don't expect that

23:39

to happen very often. Support the other kid

23:41

who's being bullied and whatever. quiet way

23:43

or way you can. And if

23:45

those two, you can't do, get an adult and

23:47

tell an adult. Yep. And you can do more than

23:50

one, but you have to do at least one. Standing

23:52

there doing nothing is a non -negotiable, but

23:54

you cannot do that. And

23:57

Lisa, you know, I just love that our

23:59

podcast now are being listened to with parents

24:01

and their teens. What advice

24:03

do you have for teens who might find

24:05

themselves in a situation where they're experiencing this exact

24:07

trend on TikTok or on social media or

24:10

in schools? What do you want them to know?

24:14

So let's think about the social media

24:16

experience of this, because that's where even

24:18

if kids aren't seeing it at school,

24:20

I think we can assume a lot

24:22

of them are gonna come across content

24:24

that is in this department. I

24:27

think that you and I

24:29

can think through exactly what

24:31

we should say to our

24:33

kids, what I think people

24:36

should say to their kids,

24:38

which is basically, it's

24:40

wrong. It's wrong

24:43

to criticize even

24:45

in a joking

24:47

manner somebody for

24:50

anything related to

24:52

size, shape, appearance,

24:56

skin color, religion, ethnic

24:58

orientation, ethnic group, I

25:01

mean, sexual orientation, gender,

25:04

like any identity based

25:06

or size and shape appearance

25:08

based. factor

25:11

that is used as

25:13

an insult is a wrong

25:15

thing. That doesn't

25:17

fix it, that doesn't make it go

25:20

away. It is helpful for kids to

25:22

hear that because especially if they're

25:24

in a digital soup where everybody's doing

25:26

it and then they walk into a

25:28

cafeteria where everybody's doing it, they will

25:30

be reassured when we are like just

25:32

to be clear, this is totally over

25:34

the line. So what

25:37

do you do sometimes

25:39

kids try to fat shame, but

25:41

they might do it to somebody

25:43

who's noticeably slimmer, you know, or

25:46

even to their sibling who might

25:48

not have any weight management issues,

25:50

but it's just hurled out quickly, you

25:53

know, like it's not a big deal

25:55

to use that. Yeah, no, I mean, kids

25:57

do it. I mean, and they just,

25:59

they're like, I'm upset. I'm looking for a

26:01

weapon. This word sounds pretty mean. Like,

26:03

you know, I'll grab it and throw it

26:05

and see what happens. Yes. You

26:07

know, I think that is A

26:09

really nice moment to be like, all right, you're

26:11

out. That's not okay. You go take, you

26:13

know, 10 minutes, pull yourself together, come back and

26:15

apologize and figure out how that came out

26:17

of your mouth. Right. I mean, I think that

26:19

is a really nice moment to draw a

26:22

very hard line with kids. Um,

26:24

and also, you know,

26:27

context matters if we both

26:29

have two kids. I have seen

26:31

my kids like say something and then like right away

26:33

be like, uh -oh. And so, you

26:35

know, if a kid is already aware that

26:37

they've crossed the line, I think you can build

26:39

on that. You can be like, you and

26:41

I both know that was completely unacceptable. Like, what

26:43

are you going to do to make it

26:45

right? All right.

26:48

Lisa, this, thank you really quickly before

26:50

we go. When we're talking, you

26:52

know, as we're going through many different

26:54

changes, you could have just given birth, you

26:56

could have a stressful job, you know,

26:58

our bodies go through different changes and different

27:00

levels of stress that can lead to

27:02

weight issues as well. What's

27:04

your advice to parents about how they talk about their

27:06

weight in front of their children? Don't.

27:09

I mean, we have pretty, yeah,

27:11

we have pretty good research showing

27:13

that, yeah, when adults

27:15

are like, oh, I hate my

27:17

thighs, I hate my butt, you

27:19

know, that that models

27:21

for kids, an attitude towards

27:24

one body, one's body that

27:26

is less than kind. Which

27:30

is not to say that the fact that

27:32

we're not talking about it means that somehow,

27:34

magically, we don't all have anxieties about our

27:36

bodies. You cannot be a woman in this

27:38

culture and be like, yeah, I've never thought

27:40

about it. I feel great all the time.

27:43

That's just never on the menu, so to

27:45

speak. But I

27:47

think that... it's really ideal if

27:49

we can talk about our

27:51

bodies from the standpoint of health

27:53

and capacity and enjoyment, right?

27:55

Like I love working out. It

27:57

feels good, right? You know,

27:59

I love getting a massage. It

28:01

feels good, right? Like that

28:03

our bodies are not necessarily, you

28:07

know, I think we just really want to

28:09

make it clear that what our bodies are

28:11

about is about a lot of things. And

28:13

what other people think of the particular shape

28:15

of one's thigh is really Not

28:18

it. All right.

28:21

So Lisa, what do you have for us for parenting to go? I

28:24

want to return to something we were thinking

28:26

about in terms like, how do you even

28:28

get this conversation started? And for this topic,

28:30

you know, we're recommending like ask your kid,

28:32

are you hearing this? Are you seeing this?

28:34

What do you know? Do

28:36

it for everything. This is

28:38

like my favorite way. Anything

28:40

that comes on your radar,

28:42

like vaping, gummies, whatever. It

28:45

is such a good beginning start because

28:47

it's gentle and it's kind and it's curious.

28:49

And it's also going to dictate where

28:51

the conversation goes next, right? Because if you're

28:53

like, what do you think about vaping?

28:55

It's like, it's awesome, right? Okay, now you're

28:57

having one conversation. What a

29:00

good point. just

29:02

can't go wrong when you're

29:04

worried about something if those are

29:06

the first opening maneuvers in

29:08

the conversation you're hoping to have.

29:11

that is terrific advice because so often

29:14

I think we're nervous or feel like

29:16

they haven't crossed that bridge or they

29:18

don't talk about it and maybe they've

29:20

already crossed that bridge and you don't

29:22

realize they have. And we hope you

29:24

join us next week. We're so excited

29:26

about our guests. We're going to have

29:28

the Holderness family on and they're going

29:30

to talk about their new book on

29:32

ADHD. They are just so much fun. We

29:34

hope you join us. I'll see you next week, Lisa.

29:37

I'll see you next week. Thanks

29:41

for joining us. Be sure to

29:43

subscribe to the Ask Lisa podcast

29:45

so you get the episodes just

29:47

as soon as they drop. And

29:49

send us your questions to Ask

29:51

Lisa at DrLisaDemore.com. And now

29:53

a word from our lawyers. The advice

29:55

provided on this podcast does

29:57

not constitute or serve as a

29:59

substitute for professional psychological treatment,

30:01

therapy, or other types of professional

30:03

advice or intervention. If

30:05

you have concerns about your child's well -being, consult

30:08

a physician or mental health professional. If

30:11

you're looking for additional

30:13

resources, check out Lisa's website

30:15

at dr .lisademore.com. You

30:26

.com