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unlimited. In

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the before time, pre-election,

0:28

I had the amazing chance to speak

0:31

with renowned chef and health advocate, Tom

0:33

Colicchio, about our country's

0:35

struggles with poverty and food insecurity.

0:39

However, like so much of what we're

0:41

focused on, this topic is now more

0:43

pressing than ever, and our

0:45

conversation seems a bit prescient. Why?

0:49

Because the most significant government programs that

0:51

lift people out of poverty, that provide

0:53

access to assistance to those who have

0:55

a hard time putting food on the

0:57

table, that can help bridge

1:00

that gap for nutritional access. Those

1:02

programs are being handled right now at

1:05

the federal level by the United States

1:07

Department of Agriculture, also known

1:09

as the USDA. Now,

1:11

while Trump has not announced who he

1:13

intends to appoint as his agriculture secretary,

1:16

Project 2025 has told us what

1:18

he intends to do. They

1:21

outline in grave detail the

1:23

devastating proposals to programs that

1:25

would cut back eligibility for

1:27

access to food. It

1:29

would weaken regulations on baby formula.

1:32

They would limit access to low-cost

1:34

lunches for school children, and that's

1:36

just the beginning. But

1:39

knowing what their targets are means

1:41

that we can get ready to

1:43

protect, defend, and insist that our

1:45

elected leaders take care

1:47

of their people. Because

1:50

hunger doesn't care about your age, your

1:52

race, your region, or who you voted

1:54

for. So, we're going

1:56

to talk to Tom about how he lobbied

1:58

members of Congress. And this is

2:01

going to be important ahead of the confirmations in

2:03

January. Because if Trump follows

2:05

regular order, he is going to once

2:07

again pick someone who is counter to

2:09

our needs and counter to our American

2:11

tradition of trying to help one another.

2:14

But we can take lessons from Tom

2:16

on not only how to approach congressional

2:18

leaders, but how to talk to our

2:20

state legislators who are the political partners

2:22

in programs like SNAP and WIC. How

2:25

to talk to school board members who

2:27

need to be urging their leaders to

2:29

take action to protect children. How

2:32

we talk to our neighbors about

2:34

why hunger doesn't care about who you

2:37

are. Hunger simply needs

2:39

to be satisfied. In

2:42

the meantime, though, it's even more

2:44

important that we do what we can

2:46

to give to food charities like No

2:48

Kid Hungry and Feeding America and your

2:51

local food banks, now and throughout the

2:53

Trump administration. For example, $50

2:56

to No Kid Hungry can help with

2:58

up to 500 meals. So

3:01

in this episode, you'll hear more about

3:03

the ways to advocate for your school

3:06

board to take action, your local

3:08

and state legislators to do their part, and

3:10

your members of Congress, whether you

3:12

voted for them or not, to protect

3:14

and expand support for food programs

3:16

and to keep our communities healthy.

3:28

Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey

3:30

Abrams from Cricket Media. I'm your

3:32

host, Stacey Abrams. It's

3:34

that time of year when many of us

3:36

are getting ready to gather with family and

3:38

friends and celebrate the holidays with

3:40

lots and lots of food. In

3:42

my family, my mother makes the most

3:45

amazing dressing ever. And for

3:47

you Northerners, that's what we call stuffing down

3:49

in the South. She makes a

3:51

mac and cheese worthy of its own IG account, and

3:54

she makes pecan pies that my friends like more

3:56

than they like me. My

3:59

dad is her sushi. and can do

4:01

things with a can of pineapple and a

4:03

ham that proves magic is

4:05

real. I'm responsible for

4:07

the Great Bird, a 20-some-what

4:09

pound turkey that feeds

4:11

our family of nearly 20 siblings,

4:13

spouses, and kids. Oh,

4:16

and yes, we use jellied cranberry

4:18

sauce as nature intended. We

4:21

have our food traditions, like most families. But

4:24

for too many Americans, putting food on the

4:26

table each day is a struggle. We

4:29

live in the richest country in the

4:31

world, yet food insecurity impacts

4:33

one in 10 families, and

4:35

one in five children in the U.S. lives with

4:37

hunger. Like so many of

4:39

our societal problems, several factors and

4:42

failures combine to create this seemingly

4:44

intractable issue, from persistent

4:46

poverty to the cost of groceries to

4:48

access to quality food. This

4:51

can mean no grocery store nearby, or

4:53

that the grocery store you have available to you

4:55

lacks the food you need. We

4:57

call these food deserts. Then there's the issue

5:00

of children going hungry at school because

5:02

breakfast and lunches are beyond the reach of their

5:04

parents' wallets. Despite the

5:06

enormity of the challenge around the country,

5:09

people are getting creative with how to

5:11

address food policy and food insecurity and

5:13

hunger in their communities. School

5:16

lunch workers are rethinking how to

5:18

provide healthy, locally sourced meals made

5:20

from scratch. Food banks

5:22

are working with local farmers to get

5:24

leftover crops to hungry families. Some

5:27

organizations are trying to make change within

5:29

the food stamp system, or SNAP, the

5:31

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. For

5:33

the past 10 years, Double Up

5:35

Food Bucks New York has been helping

5:38

those enrolled in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance

5:40

Program, or often referred to as

5:42

SNAP. It allows recipients to get twice

5:44

as much fresh and healthy food

5:47

on the table. Two

5:49

peppers for a dollar?

5:51

Can't beat that. Double Up Food

5:53

Bucks, launched in Detroit in

5:55

2009, has expanded to partners in 29 other

5:57

states, boosting farmers' power to the

6:00

economy. profits and improving people's access to

6:02

healthy food. But

6:04

there's still a long way to go to address

6:06

the food system and hunger in this country. The

6:09

dollars that are being used for reimbursements haven't changed

6:11

to 1973. We

6:14

need to get better nutritious foods in school. And

6:17

the only way to do that is by increasing

6:19

the amount of the reimbursement. That's chef Tom Colicchio.

6:21

In 2013, Colicchio and

6:23

his wife filmmaker Lori Silverbush made

6:25

a documentary about the issue called

6:27

A Place at the Table. You

6:30

might know Tom Colicchio as a judge on

6:33

the long running and one of my favorite

6:35

Bravo TV shows, Top Chef. He

6:37

also owns and operates several famous

6:39

restaurants, and he's published

6:41

a new book, Why I Cook,

6:43

that combines memoir and recipes. But

6:46

I wanted to invite him to join us

6:48

today because he has spent over a decade advocating

6:51

for better food and nutrition policy and

6:54

fighting to feed hungry children in a

6:56

nation that can't afford to do less

6:58

than our best. And

7:00

he joins me on Assembly Required right after this

7:02

break. Tom

7:06

Colicchio, thank you so much for being here.

7:09

Thank you. That's my absolute pleasure to be

7:11

here with you. Well, I am delighted to

7:13

not only have you as a guest, but

7:16

as someone I admire. You are

7:18

a talented chef and

7:20

you are a very deft teacher. I

7:23

have watched Top Chef from its very

7:25

first episode. I have never missed a

7:27

season. I have watched every spinoff. One

7:30

reason that I love Top Chef is

7:32

that beyond the competition of the show,

7:35

each season you very

7:37

intentionally and I would

7:39

say effortlessly, you engage

7:41

in this combination of entertainment, but

7:43

also education about the place where

7:45

you are and why food

7:48

is a part of it. You discuss the

7:50

intersection of food and culture, but

7:53

you also challenge your chefs and

7:55

their assumptions and how they think

7:57

about themselves. Did this

7:59

come from? the producers, did this come from

8:01

you? And Padma, how did this approach evolve

8:04

or was that always the intention? It's a

8:06

combination of all the above, but it really

8:09

comes from the fact that our industry has

8:11

been changing over this time. And so I

8:13

think that we're actually reflecting what's

8:16

really going on in our industry. I just

8:18

arrived home yesterday from finishing this season's finale,

8:20

season 22. And it's going to

8:22

really come up in a great way, that's all I'll say. But

8:25

when I was coming up,

8:28

you studied French cooking, maybe

8:30

Italian. In fact, as an Italian American, I never

8:32

cooked Italian food in a restaurant because I thought

8:34

it wasn't as supposed

8:38

to be as high end or as

8:40

special as French cuisine. We all studied French

8:42

cuisine. And so think about

8:44

that. If you are a Latino

8:46

cook coming up or an African American

8:48

chef coming up, and you were

8:50

running away from your culture because you thought that your

8:53

culture, Chinese culture,

8:55

think about these things, all these things are

8:57

things that were put into to-go containers and

8:59

done takeout. And so you were

9:02

running away from your culture because you thought that

9:04

it was less valued, especially in the

9:07

culinary world. And that has changed, especially over

9:09

the last 10 years. And so I think

9:11

that, and it's a combination

9:13

of myself and Padma, and now Kristin

9:15

and Gal all kind of taking

9:18

the initiative and teasing this out of the

9:20

chefs and asking them questions about what

9:23

is their culture and why isn't

9:26

that represented. And then I

9:28

think at the same time, we really

9:30

started focusing on the location because the location

9:32

that we're shooting up becomes sort of an

9:34

additional contestant. That's the background.

9:37

That's all of the

9:39

food culture that comes from these locations or

9:41

something that we're embracing. So I

9:43

think it's a combination of things, but it definitely

9:45

feels better. It feels more authentic. And

9:47

I think that when you think about what we're

9:50

really in the business of, we're in the business

9:52

of the chefs telling their stories. And this has

9:54

now become part of their stories. Their culture should

9:56

always, of course, be part of their stories. And

9:58

I think they're really, really, really, really, embracing it

10:00

and it's something that we're really proud of. Well,

10:03

I think it speaks to one of

10:05

the many reasons I wanted to

10:07

have you on for this conversation about

10:10

food systems and hunger and

10:12

a country that is

10:14

so steeped in the culture of food where

10:17

you can pick a place and there is

10:19

a narrative thread about how that

10:22

place came to be that is uniquely tied

10:24

to food. The

10:27

sheer existence of hunger in

10:29

this country, the brokenness is

10:31

anathema. And one of the

10:33

things we try to do on assembly required is to

10:36

understand where we've been, where we are,

10:38

and where we can get to if we work

10:40

on it. And this I know

10:42

is close to your heart because in 2013,

10:44

you and your wife, Lori, made this extraordinary

10:46

documentary called A Place at the Table. I

10:48

remember watching it and it

10:51

was one of those moments where I understood

10:53

that you saw the role

10:56

that you and Lori could play beyond the

10:59

kitchen. So what sparked the

11:01

decision to make this documentary, which would

11:04

not have necessarily been something every

11:06

chef thought of? Well, also, my

11:09

wife actually thought of it, not me. I

11:14

was a little more known than she was, so I

11:16

helped getting the film made and financed. My

11:19

wife is actually a screenwriter and a narrative

11:21

filmmaker, not a documentary filmmaker. And

11:23

she was mentoring a young girl who was living in

11:25

her and her family was living in a shelter in

11:27

Brooklyn. And she was

11:29

participating in an after school dance program

11:31

my wife was involved with. And

11:35

she would come to our house and it was clear that she

11:37

was hungry. And so we would have dinners

11:39

with her and then send food back home with her. And

11:42

she also had some learning disabilities. And in New

11:44

York City, if the public school

11:46

system can't teach to her disabilities, we were able

11:49

to get her into a private school setting. Not

11:51

a fancy private school, but a private school setting

11:53

that could sort of teach to her a

11:55

particular deficit. And we

11:58

got a phone call the first week. in school

12:00

saying that it's clearly that this young woman was

12:02

hungry. The school, because it was a private school,

12:05

didn't have a breakfast and lunch program. And

12:09

so my wife after hearing this, she, you

12:11

know, Dovin wanted to understand why people

12:14

are hungry in America. And

12:16

before she decided to make a film, she

12:18

started researching the issue and then also reached

12:20

out to a friend of hers, Christy Jacobson,

12:22

who was a documentary filmmaker, and they worked

12:24

together on it. But

12:26

very, very quickly after starting the research,

12:29

she came to the conclusion that

12:33

people in this country are not hungry because of droughts

12:36

or famine or war. They're

12:39

hungry in this country because of poverty and because

12:41

that we don't have the political will to make

12:43

sure everyone in this country is fed. And

12:46

that became the narrative of the

12:48

film. And then she went on

12:50

to show how our system is broken and

12:53

the effect that it really has on our country because of a

12:55

broken food system. Or

12:58

we should say the system is not broken. The system works

13:00

exactly the way it's set up to work. That's the problem.

13:03

Yeah. Well, I want to pull on

13:05

that because one of the outcomes of the documentary

13:07

is that you became one of

13:09

the nation's most prominent advocates and

13:12

spokespeople for critically evaluating the system

13:14

and why it is

13:16

the way it is. You became a fixture on Capitol Hill.

13:19

You talked to members of Congress about food

13:21

policy and hunger. And

13:24

so tell me what you heard when you would

13:26

have these conversations, when you explained that it wasn't

13:28

broken, that the system was working the way it

13:30

was designed and maybe we should rethink

13:32

it. So what had happened

13:34

after the film, one of the talking heads,

13:36

Ken Cook, who runs the environmental working group,

13:38

reached out to me and said, you know,

13:40

maybe we can set something up that we

13:42

can tackle food and food systems

13:44

the way that we're tackling the environment. And

13:47

so we did it. We formed the food

13:49

policy action. And what we did is we

13:51

created a scorecard. So we created Congress and

13:53

how they voted around issues of food,

13:56

hunger, farming, fishing, clean water, things like

13:58

that. And I remember the film. The

14:00

first year our scorecard came out, people didn't really pay

14:02

attention to it. Second year came

14:04

out, more people started paying attention. Third year,

14:07

we started hearing people saying, why did I get a

14:09

bad score? And then you walk through the vote. And

14:12

then by the fourth year, I was spending

14:14

a lot of time on Capitol Hill, spending

14:16

more time actually with Republicans than Democrats, because

14:18

Democrats, most of them were already here, especially

14:20

on the hunger side of things. And

14:23

I spent a lot of time. And you were able

14:25

to see the difference and people would start to come

14:27

around to it, especially when you started

14:29

putting in terms of things that they cared about. So

14:32

if you didn't care, I'm not going to always say

14:34

this, I'm a liberal, I have a knee-jerk reaction to

14:36

wanting to make sure people are fed. Also

14:38

as a chef, I think it's a right. People

14:41

come to my restaurant, it's expensive, but I still

14:43

believe that food is a right, like water

14:45

and air, let me breathe. But

14:48

then you started saying, all right, let's look at national security.

14:51

When 25% of the recruits that joined

14:53

our military service drop out because of

14:56

hunger-related issues, which actually show itself as

14:58

obesity, which is kind

15:01

of hard to wrap your head around, but it's true. When

15:03

you look at the fact that in this country, calories

15:05

are cheap and nutrition is expensive. And

15:09

so that was an issue of national security. And

15:13

if you just looked at how

15:16

our country could be falling behind

15:18

educationally to some of the other advanced countries,

15:20

and you say, why is that happening? Well, if kids show

15:22

up in school and they're really hungry, they

15:25

can't focus. There was a study done

15:27

in Deloitte that when kids got breakfast in first period,

15:29

math scores went up by 13%. Ascentism

15:33

would drop. Incidents of

15:35

going to the principal's office and getting disciplined dropped. And

15:39

so it's clear that kids can't

15:42

compete academically if they're hungry. And

15:44

so how does that play out? Well,

15:46

if we want to stay competitive as a nation, everyone

15:49

has to do their part. And part of

15:51

doing part is making sure that we have a well-nourished country.

15:54

And so once you start talking about it

15:56

in terms that Republicans care about these things,

15:58

then you start coming back. along. And

16:01

so, yeah, we found to be really, really effective

16:03

to try to, you know, have

16:05

different messages to different groups. And it worked

16:08

pretty well. And also the fact that once

16:10

you start talking about the fact that we

16:12

almost eliminated hunger in this country back in

16:14

the 70s. And there

16:16

was another piece of media that did that. It

16:18

was the, it's called Hungry in America. It was

16:21

on, I believe it was the CBS, it was

16:23

Charles Corralt. And this was

16:25

back when Robert Kennedy was going to

16:28

First Nations reservations and looking at

16:30

hunger. And

16:32

then also I think there was a young child who

16:34

was like dying of starvation in West Virginia. And

16:37

so after that film, again, this

16:39

was before cable TV. So a third of

16:42

the population probably saw that news piece.

16:44

And senators Dolan McGovern

16:46

got together and modernized the food stamp

16:49

system, modernized school lunch. And

16:51

we pretty much ended hunger until the 80s. And

16:53

everything changed when Reagan came

16:55

in and wanted to shrink government. And

16:58

that was something that his administration went after.

17:04

Simply required with Stacey Abrams is brought

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Assembly required with Stacey Abrams is

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brought to you by Americans United

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choices at walmart.com/black and unlimited. So

19:23

you said a lot that I think I would love to

19:25

unpack for our audience. I want to start with the

19:27

personal. There are a lot

19:29

of folks who feel as passionately as

19:31

you do, but are reluctant to approach a politician

19:34

about any issue because

19:37

they don't know what they're doing. So can

19:40

you talk about any worries that you experienced and how

19:42

you manage them, how you push through them? The

19:46

first interaction that I had with

19:48

Congress, I actually testified in front of a

19:50

congressional hearing. To say that I was nervous,

19:52

it was putting a mildly. You

19:55

know, it was so surreal. I

20:00

was, I got

20:02

to forget the congressman. He retired, he was from California.

20:05

It'll come to me. But first I go in and

20:07

they take me to his office of his chambers. So,

20:09

talking to him, meeting a few people. Then

20:11

they just walk you right out and you're in the hearing

20:13

room. I was sitting down and I'm next to someone from

20:16

the Heritage Foundation, who was on

20:18

the other side of the issue, and then another

20:20

gentleman from a mission readiness, it was called. So,

20:22

there was a general that was testifying about hunger,

20:24

and then there was one other person. I

20:27

had to deliver a speech and I was reading it. Part

20:29

of my ADHD is I have a real

20:31

difficult time reading out loud. Words

20:34

run together, I ignore punctuation.

20:36

It's just, it's, so

20:38

I was, I was scared to death.

20:41

But got through it. But then when the Q&A started, I was, I

20:43

was just kind of on a roll and it was great. After

20:46

that though, it was pretty easy because if

20:48

I'm unscripted, and I could just sit

20:50

in front of someone, I know the material, I know the issue,

20:52

I knew it inside and out. And there

20:55

were a few people that I would rely on to make

20:57

sure I had facts and information current, and that was right.

21:00

So, I think, listen, I think you need to approach members

21:02

of Congress, they're people. And they

21:05

actually want to hear from constituents. And

21:07

I mean, did it help that I was

21:09

pretty well known from Top Chef? Absolutely.

21:12

Also, we shot, right before

21:14

I started doing this, we shot our DC

21:16

season. And there was one

21:18

particular episode where we were shooting in a

21:21

restaurant and it was all of the, you

21:23

know, you name it, they were

21:25

in that room. And so, they knew me from the show. They

21:27

all saw the show. And I remember Nancy Pelosi saying that, you

21:29

know, she was pretty well known until she did that show. And

21:31

then she walked down the street and people were like, oh my

21:33

God, I saw you on Top Chef. And

21:36

so, they were open. And

21:38

then, you know, the most help

21:40

I got was I think from Shelly Pingree.

21:43

She's a Congresswoman from Maine. And she had this great

21:45

townhouse on Capitol Hill. So, after we would go up

21:47

and spend the day, you know, having meetings, we would

21:49

all go back to her house. And

21:52

they all thought I was cooking. Maybe that's why they

21:54

were coming, but a lot of people would show up

21:56

and I wasn't cooking. But what I found really interesting,

21:58

and I don't know if it was still happen. But back

22:01

then, I would say two-thirds of

22:03

the room were Democrats, but there was a third of the room

22:05

that Republicans, they all would hang out afterwards.

22:08

You said earlier that the system is

22:10

working the way it's designed. Give us

22:12

that thumbnail. If you have money,

22:14

you can enjoy healthy food. If

22:16

you don't, you are going to buy

22:19

food that's as inexpensive as possible. And typically, those

22:21

things are highly processed, full of fats

22:23

and sugars and not very

22:26

healthy. So if

22:28

you want to feed your family healthy food, it's expensive,

22:32

much more expensive than buying processed food.

22:34

And so the system is set up

22:38

that if you have enough money to

22:40

engage in that system, it's

22:43

pretty easy. If you don't, it's

22:45

hard. And often this, I

22:47

love the way you frame it, that calories are

22:49

cheap, but nutrition is expensive. And

22:52

often this is attributed to personal choice,

22:54

that people are making bad choices because

22:56

they want to. But

23:00

if you live in a community

23:03

with no grocery store, your

23:05

options rarely include fresh fruits and

23:07

vegetables and proteins. If you

23:09

have a limited budget, processed foods may be the

23:11

most convenient and accessible option. And a

23:14

lot of that's because of our farm policy.

23:16

It's also because of zoning. And

23:18

so I'd love for you to

23:20

talk about two things. One is that while Congress

23:23

is often the target of conversation, a lot

23:25

of these choices are made at the state

23:27

and local level. Have you had any state

23:29

and local engagement? And what did you learn from

23:31

that process? Not as much,

23:35

but you're right.

23:37

But also, it's still a matter of

23:39

money. When you're talking about food deserts,

23:41

and that's the picture you're painting, when

23:43

there's no grocery stores in your neighborhood,

23:46

it's because they can't make money because

23:49

there's fewer people that are spending money

23:51

there. And so they leave. So a great

23:53

solution to that. And recently I

23:55

heard more people are talking about

23:57

this, in certain states talking about this, giving tax. breaks

24:00

to food companies that will

24:02

come in, supermarkets that will come into these

24:05

neighborhoods. And so in a

24:07

way, they're subsidized. So

24:09

that's one way to do it. There was a lot

24:11

of great things that were in the Farm Bill, like

24:14

bodegas that didn't have refrigerators, so they couldn't actually put

24:16

fresh fruits and vegetables. And there was a provision

24:18

in the Farm Bill that would pay for refrigerations

24:20

if they were to use it for fresh fruits

24:23

and vegetables in bodegas, where a lot of people

24:25

do shop in neighborhoods. So

24:28

yeah, but this

24:30

isn't just an issue of poverty, because there's hunger in

24:33

every single county in this country. And

24:36

the difference in America is that it's not

24:38

like the Sally Strowler's commercials that we grew

24:41

up on. It doesn't look like, hunger doesn't

24:43

look like that in America. It

24:45

doesn't look like the kids with distended stomachs and flies flying

24:47

around them. It doesn't look like that. It's

24:49

your neighbor who is struggling. Let's

24:53

go back to the beginning of the pandemic, when

24:55

we started seeing those lines. Those

24:57

cars that were lined up for miles waiting for

24:59

food. I looked at those cars. They

25:02

weren't broken down vehicles. These were BMWs. These

25:04

were Mercedes. These are people who never in

25:06

a million years thought that they would have

25:08

to wait online for food. And

25:11

so I was hoping, seeing that,

25:13

that yes, we're going to get through this pandemic, but

25:15

I was hoping to be more empathy for people who

25:17

were struggling, because those people were struggling too.

25:21

And I think there was for a while, and I

25:23

think it's all reverted back to, I have

25:26

mine and screw everybody else. But

25:29

on the state level, yes, a lot can be done.

25:31

A lot of the money comes from a federal government,

25:33

but it's actually, especially looking at things like school lunch.

25:36

That's a federal price funded by the federal

25:38

government, but that's a state run county run,

25:40

you know, district run program. And

25:44

when you looked at so many

25:46

governors that weren't taking that additional money that

25:49

the Biden administration was giving out, that's just telling

25:51

your constituents you don't care for them. I

25:55

want to point out that we know

25:57

that because of the summer bucks program,

25:59

which is the summer EBT program. We

26:02

saw what happened during the

26:04

pandemic when universal school meals were

26:06

available, when free school lunch was

26:08

available for all children. One,

26:11

it reduced the stigma for kids who needed

26:13

that meal. And number

26:15

two, it increased participation. And we

26:17

know that for child

26:19

hunger, it dropped dramatically.

26:23

It was down to like 5.2%. And this

26:25

is also because of the child tax credit.

26:27

And I'll get to that in a second.

26:29

But since the rescission of the child tax

26:31

credit and the rescission of those programs, child

26:34

poverty is back up to about 13.7%, which means there

26:38

is a direct through line.

26:40

And you in particular focused

26:42

during the pandemic on how,

26:46

and you just laid it out, how the

26:48

cracks in our economic and our social structures

26:51

were put into sharp relief. People in BMWs

26:53

were hungry. And it

26:55

took aggressive policies like the

26:57

child tax credit, like the

26:59

summer EBT program to help

27:01

feed children. What's the way

27:03

forward? I mean, even going further, schools in New

27:05

York City were open

27:07

to feed children and adults. And you didn't even

27:09

have to be in that district. You could just

27:11

stop in. So

27:14

there was a massive need, and

27:16

our government met those needs. And

27:19

yet, now that we're through the pandemic, we still have

27:22

needs. And there's a

27:24

part of the government that decides that this isn't something they

27:26

care about. It's just mean

27:28

and cruel, which I

27:31

can never wrap my head around. I just

27:33

can't. It's always like, well, they don't see

27:35

the issue unless it actually affects them. And

27:37

the second it affects them, then

27:39

maybe it's an issue. But hunger is one

27:42

of those things where there's no member of

27:44

Congress that's hungry, and children

27:46

are hungry. Maybe some members of Congress,

27:48

in their past they were hungry.

27:50

I know Jasmine Crocker talks about it, a few

27:53

other people do. But for the most part, these

27:55

aren't people that experience hunger. And so they just

27:57

don't have the empathy for it. And they just

27:59

blame people. So what's really

28:01

interesting, so you look at soda, right? Now,

28:03

obviously it's not healthy and it's not something

28:05

that we want to feed our children. But

28:08

if you're growing up in poverty and you're

28:10

saying no to your kid all the time,

28:12

you're saying no to buying something in the

28:14

supermarket, they see a piece of candy or

28:16

something like that, you're saying no to sneakers

28:19

that they want, you're saying no to a

28:21

winter coat, you're saying no all the time.

28:23

And now you can say, yes, something that's really inexpensive,

28:26

well, you're gonna say yes. But it's

28:28

so easy to blame and point the finger. It's just

28:30

not as simple as people want to make it out

28:32

to be. You're

28:35

a parent, you want to say yes to your kid,

28:37

you really do. Not being able to put food on

28:39

a table and saying no to a kid who wants

28:41

something that you should be able to afford, the

28:44

psyche of that parent just has to be crushed if

28:46

that's the case. And

28:48

I grew up in a household, my father was

28:50

a corrections officer, he also had a gambling addiction.

28:53

So there was often times where, say

28:56

there wasn't food on the table, there were times it wasn't great, but

28:58

they had to say no a lot. My mother had to

29:00

say no a lot to me. I grew up in a

29:03

two bedroom apartment with two brothers, we shared a bedroom. And

29:05

so there was no a lot, but

29:07

nowhere near as close as

29:10

some people who live in poverty. And

29:12

so I can only imagine how it

29:14

affects these children. So what

29:16

role, I mean, you talk about the fact

29:18

that you and Lori, Lori was mentoring this

29:20

young woman and you all took it upon

29:22

yourselves to help navigate that space for her.

29:26

We've got Republicans,

29:28

Democrats, Independents who live in these

29:30

communities and what

29:33

role should community members, whether they have kids in

29:35

the school system or not, what role should they

29:37

play in this work? You have the

29:39

floor, tell them what to do. Yeah, so what I

29:41

find really interesting is that you're seeing food banks

29:44

that are playing this role. I was just in

29:46

Tulsa, Oklahoma and we were doing a book event, but

29:48

it was in a food bank. And

29:50

I met with some of the leaders of the community and

29:53

people who were running the food bank. And that's

29:55

something they really talked about is that they were

29:57

offering besides food. they

30:00

were making sure people were signed up for SNAP. They

30:03

were making sure that not only if they were signed

30:05

up for SNAP, they were signed up for other benefits they can

30:07

get. So the communities are really taking an

30:10

interest. They also have tax planners. They still got to

30:12

file taxes. People who don't file taxes, so there are

30:14

people there during tax season to make sure that they're

30:17

filing. So that's a community

30:19

effort coming together and providing services that

30:21

normally you have to buy are often

30:24

difficult to navigate and they're helping other

30:26

community members navigate that. So I think

30:28

that's something that if you have these

30:30

skills, if you're an accountant, yet

30:32

you can actually give back. If

30:35

you are just someone who can actually work

30:37

through filling out a complicated bunch of paperwork,

30:39

you could sit next to someone and walk

30:41

them through it. So there's a lot that

30:43

you can do. That's

30:46

amazing. So during the

30:48

pandemic, one of your other many,

30:50

many hats was that you helped

30:52

organize your colleagues to work

30:55

on ways to keep restaurants afloat. And that

30:57

was as much about providing

30:59

jobs and wages for those folks who

31:01

were on the margins, as well as

31:03

providing food and access. So

31:06

how was your mission to rescue

31:08

restaurants during COVID part of

31:10

the same fight for food injustice and for

31:12

access? A little

31:14

different. We looked at it as a way,

31:17

you know, made the argument that restaurants,

31:20

the majority of the money that we take in goes

31:22

out. If we're lucky, we keep 10 percent. If we're

31:24

good, we keep 10 percent. So look

31:27

who's the benefit of that money. It's

31:29

fishermen. It's farmers. It's

31:31

electricians. It's plumbers who come and prepare

31:34

our restaurant, people who work on

31:37

HVAC plus our employees. And

31:40

so what we wanted to do is make sure that

31:42

when the pandemic was over, that we had restaurants for

31:44

people to go to. Also, there's a you

31:47

can make an argument for safe neighborhoods. When a restaurant

31:49

is open, the lights are on and to late at

31:51

night, the neighborhood is safer. And

31:54

so what happened, restaurants were closed. And so

31:56

we formed the Independent Restaurant Coalition, specifically to

31:58

focus on independent restaurants. I wish

32:01

we actually embedded a writer because the story

32:03

was really amazing that starting with a group

32:05

of maybe 13 people that expanded out to

32:09

Probably 250 people that resume calls twice

32:11

a day We

32:14

had one a friend who? His

32:16

company had a foundation wanted to help and we put

32:18

that money to work to hire Lobbyists

32:21

and a comstein and within one

32:23

year we successfully lobbied the government to give us

32:26

48.6 billion dollars my restaurants afloat Which

32:29

is the story you know have government works that's

32:31

next to impossible Yeah, in fact the lobbyists that

32:33

helped us they got to think on so much,

32:35

you know push back from other People

32:38

that they represented saying why can't you do you know

32:40

for us what you're doing for them and they were

32:42

like listen We're not really doing it. They are You

32:45

know the success of it was that

32:47

again being able to talk to both sides I was on Fox

32:50

News as much as I was on on MSNBC and

32:54

We made that argument about how this

32:57

keeps community safe and keeps other people in

32:59

business This money wasn't just coming to us

33:02

But we were also people like me and Andrew

33:04

Zimmern who have you know, we were on national

33:06

spots You know national TV, but every single one

33:08

of these chefs they all have media training. They

33:11

know how to get a message across That's what

33:13

they do in the restaurants. They were going on

33:15

local TV so we just the amount of earned

33:17

media that we were able to receive with the

33:19

IRC was probably billions of dollars and It

33:23

kept a lot of restaurants a lot of restaurants going The

33:26

only unfortunate part of it was we actually

33:28

needed twice as much money. Yeah, and we

33:30

thought That there'd be

33:33

a second bite of the apple but with inflation that quickly,

33:35

you know closed So there were some

33:37

restaurants that were left out But

33:39

you know, then the beauty of the way we wrote our

33:41

bill Was

33:44

that Veterans

33:48

women and minorities got first crack of the money

33:51

Until Stephen Miller sued us. Yes. Yeah,

33:54

and then that that all changed. Yeah. Well, he's such a

33:56

great guy You

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choices at walmart.com/black and unlimited. Well,

35:32

you came out of that pandemic,

35:34

having been part of leading

35:36

this extraordinary rescue.

35:39

And then you wrote your memoir, Why I

35:41

Cook, which is incredible. So

35:43

can you talk a bit about what led you

35:45

to write your story at this moment? So

35:49

I owed my publisher a book for 17 years. That

35:53

would do it. That would do it. And I really, I really

35:56

tried hard not to write a book. I didn't know if I

35:58

had anything to say. You

36:00

know, I also don't

36:02

like the process. I don't love the process. And

36:07

it was during the pandemic, I was doing a lot

36:09

of cooking Zoom classes for clients,

36:11

corporate clients and other people contacts. And they were

36:14

trying to keep their teams together and this was

36:16

a way to do it. And,

36:18

you know, I would do about 20 minutes

36:20

of cooking and 40 minutes of talking.

36:24

And the question would always come up, when to start cooking,

36:26

why do you cook? And at first

36:28

I just started kind of giving my usual answer,

36:32

you know, about cooking at a child, blah, blah, blah. But

36:34

then I really started to think about moments

36:37

that were really important to me growing

36:39

up. And I noticed they all revolved

36:41

around food and a lot of them revolved

36:43

around my grandfather and fishing. And

36:45

my grandfather taught me to fish at a young age,

36:48

mostly crabbing and clamming. He was a

36:50

decent fisherman. And

36:52

so at a very young age, I had two

36:54

jobs when we went fishing. One was I

36:57

had to clean all the fish and crabs and clams to

36:59

get them ready for my grandmother and mother to cook. So

37:02

I had a knife in my hand at a very young age. I

37:04

was about, I was probably six years old, seven years old. And

37:08

my second job was to keep my grandfather awake on the ride

37:10

home. And it was about an hour and a half ride. And

37:15

this was the 70s, so I was in the front seat.

37:17

I'm sure I didn't have a seat belt on. My grandfather

37:19

was a chain smoker, but no one seemed to care back

37:21

then. And so

37:23

that was, but the meals

37:25

that were created from

37:28

these clams and these crabs and these fish,

37:31

and because we called so much, it wasn't just immediate

37:33

family. This was family and friends and 20 and 30

37:35

people. And it was these

37:37

big summer and these meals. And so I kept

37:39

thinking like, is this why I cook? And I

37:42

love doing dinner parties. And so is

37:44

it the idea that bringing people around a table to

37:47

me, I think was why I did it. What's

37:49

more important than the food that you're cooking is

37:52

who's there, what you're talking about. You know, I

37:54

remember as a kid hearing, yeah, at

37:56

first there was always the fishing story. It was about the

37:58

big one that got away, of course. And then. family gossip.

38:00

But then there was a lot of talk about politics and

38:03

a lot of talk about just what was happening in the

38:05

world. And I found it

38:07

all really fascinating, interesting, and so I

38:11

started thinking, is that why I do it? And then

38:13

there was another story that I kept telling me that

38:15

really kind of cooking saved my life. I mean, after

38:18

self-medicating when I

38:21

was comforting myself through through

38:24

drugs, and

38:26

then really at one point realizing if I really want to

38:28

push this career as far as I want to take it,

38:30

I have to stop doing this. So I could say cooking

38:32

maybe kept me from from an addiction.

38:34

I don't know if I had an addiction, but certainly

38:36

what I was doing could have led to one. There

38:39

were very addictive drugs that I was doing and

38:41

so maybe that's it. And so

38:46

there's a lot of reasons why I cook. It's not just

38:48

one answer. And as thinking

38:50

about this stuff and I thought, okay, maybe it's time

38:52

to write a memoir. I wanted to tell

38:54

this entire story, not just part of it, not just

38:56

the part that everybody knows, not the not the guy

38:58

they see on Talk Chef. There's much more to it.

39:02

We are grateful for that story being

39:05

in the world in part because the

39:08

point of this podcast is for me to

39:10

help people understand that what

39:12

you do and what you are can be

39:14

so many more things. And

39:16

you are known as this

39:19

extraordinary chef and as this just

39:23

remarkable spokesperson,

39:25

but you are also this very fierce

39:28

advocate and those things can

39:30

coexist. But you are

39:32

also one of my dream guests for this podcast

39:34

because hunger and food policy and food systems are

39:36

a key issue for me. Last question

39:38

for you. So you, as I said,

39:40

are one of my dream guests. Who

39:42

is the dream guest you haven't been able to

39:44

snag yet for Top Chef? As though

39:47

anybody would say no to you. But here's your

39:49

chance to pitch. That's a good question. I don't know.

39:54

I mean, all the chefs that I want

39:56

on pretty much have been on, maybe

39:59

a few that. that it haven't been, I don't

40:01

know. I really don't. You, you

40:04

should come on. You should do the show. How's that? Okay,

40:07

no take backs. Absolutely.

40:11

So here's the, we have to get to Atlanta. And

40:13

before you're in Atlanta, you're it. I'm

40:16

on. Okay, this has made

40:18

this soul show worth doing. This

40:20

has been such a pleasure. Thank you

40:22

so much, Tom Colicchio, for spending time

40:24

with us here on Assembly Required. You

40:26

are amazing. Pleasure is all mine, thank you. As

40:31

you know, I love taking on audience questions.

40:34

And today we have one from David

40:36

Reed from rural Oregon, who listens

40:38

to the pod while on his tractor. And

40:41

he's concerned about our response to the next

40:43

pandemic. David writes, "'My

40:46

main focus is how to protect my family

40:48

for the next four years, specifically

40:51

regarding the proposed oversight and

40:53

administration of the CDC and

40:55

FDA. What does the

40:57

potential appointment of Robert Kennedy mean to

41:00

our critical government agencies? Will

41:02

I be able to trust the information provided

41:04

by the new administration? Will there

41:06

be vaccines this time? What are

41:08

the governmental safeguards in place for the American

41:10

people? Are Americans going to

41:12

be left to fend for themselves?" David,

41:16

thank you for a very thoughtful and

41:19

I think timely question. We

41:21

know that in Florida recently, there was

41:23

a measles outbreak and the

41:26

current surgeon general in Florida, essentially

41:29

does not believe in vaccines. And in fact,

41:33

encourage parents not to respond to

41:35

the measles outbreak in the way

41:37

that public health administrations have long

41:40

advised, which is if your children aren't

41:42

vaccinated, keep them out of school. He

41:44

said, do what you want. We

41:47

are about to face a similar situation from

41:49

the new potential head

41:52

of Health and Human Services, Robert

41:54

Kennedy, who is an avowed

41:56

opponent to vaccines. But

41:59

there's good news. and there's reasons

42:01

to be concerned. Let's start with the good news.

42:04

One of the benefits of bureaucracy is

42:06

how slow it is to change. And

42:09

that is especially true when it

42:11

comes to places like the CDC and

42:13

the FDA. So the Centers for Disease

42:15

Control and the Food and Drug Administration.

42:18

Most of the employees of the CDC

42:20

and the FDA are not political appointees.

42:23

They are civil servants who have the

42:26

training and the longevity to

42:28

adapt to the leadership of each

42:30

administration without compromising the science. And

42:33

I know this because I checked in with my younger sister who

42:35

used to work for the CDC. As

42:37

she pointed out, almost everyone she

42:39

worked with, they had degrees in

42:41

public health, in epidemiology, in food

42:44

science, they know their stuff. And

42:47

until this administration

42:50

unfortunately attempts to weed

42:52

out all knowledge, we

42:54

have the protection of really smart people who've

42:56

been doing this work for years and they

42:58

don't intend to stop just because the new

43:01

chair and the new head and the new

43:03

secretary may tell them to. More

43:05

importantly, let's remember, they all have

43:07

a vested interest in getting this right. But

43:11

one big change, and this goes to

43:13

our challenges, is that unlike years

43:16

past, when the president just picked who he

43:18

wanted to head the CDC, as

43:21

of now, the head of the CDC will

43:23

have to be confirmed by the US Senate.

43:26

This change takes effect in 2025, and

43:29

it has, like everything else, its pros and its

43:31

cons. On the plus side, the

43:33

head of the CDC will now be equivalent

43:35

to other agencies in HHS, like the

43:38

head of the FDA, where confirmation

43:40

is already required. The CDC

43:42

was one of the few agencies under

43:44

the purview of the

43:47

Health and Human Services Department that

43:49

didn't require confirmation. The

43:51

upside now is that we're going to know who's

43:53

getting that job and it will be public. The

43:56

process to make that person the head of the CDC. The

43:59

downside... is that this job is

44:01

about to be even further politically polarized,

44:04

and we saw what happened the last time

44:06

Trump was in office and the CDC was

44:08

in question. However, we

44:11

also know that what we saw during the

44:13

pandemic tells us a bit about what is to

44:15

come. Scientists will always

44:18

find a way to tell us what

44:20

they know. But what's critical

44:22

is that we understand that

44:24

these federal employees have a direct effect

44:27

on state and local policymakers.

44:30

So while we're focused on what's happening

44:32

under the Trump administration, we have to

44:34

pay attention to what's happening in our

44:36

cities and our counties, what's happening in

44:39

our school systems, because state and local

44:41

policymakers take their direction from our federal

44:43

health agencies. So we have

44:45

to enlist our local leaders to be champions

44:47

for good information. The

44:50

other reality, though, is leadership does matter.

44:53

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will

44:55

be able to spread propaganda

44:58

and misinformation and malinformation without

45:00

the normal constraints, except

45:02

for the ones that we put in place

45:04

for ourselves. And that is why these conversations

45:06

and questions like these are so important. In

45:09

years past, we could count

45:11

on at least to a pretty

45:14

significant degree that the government

45:16

would try to do its best job. But

45:18

as David, you point out in your question, we're

45:20

going to have to fend for ourselves, but we're

45:22

not in this alone. Our

45:24

obligation will be to learn to

45:27

vet our sources of information, to

45:29

be trusted purveyors of good information. That

45:31

means not sharing everything you see or

45:33

hear until you've proven that you're right.

45:36

And if you want good tips on this,

45:38

I encourage you to go back to our

45:40

earlier episode on disinformation with the Sosaosa of

45:42

Onyx Impact. And lastly,

45:44

we're going to use this space, this pod,

45:47

to break down attacks on our health and

45:49

safety and to give you the tools to

45:51

respond, especially to crises when they arise or

45:54

when we can see what's coming. So,

45:57

David, I hope this gives you a little bit of

45:59

comfort, if not. just a call to action.

46:02

But for everyone else, know that we'll be answering more

46:04

of your questions in the weeks to come, either here

46:06

on the show or as an

46:08

entire standalone episode. So please keep sharing

46:10

and insisting on more from me and

46:13

from our fellow Americans and anyone listening from

46:15

elsewhere. I see you, Bulgaria. Each

46:20

week we want to leave the audience with

46:23

a new way to act against what can

46:25

feel inevitable, an opportunity to make

46:27

a difference and a way to get involved

46:29

or just get started on working on a

46:31

solution in a segment we like to call

46:34

our toolkit. At Assembly Required,

46:36

we encourage the audience to be curious,

46:38

solve problems, and do good, which is

46:40

what we heard Tom Colicchio talk to

46:42

us about today. So let's

46:44

start with being curious. You can watch

46:46

his documentary, A Place at the Table,

46:48

on YouTube. The issues raised

46:50

and the calls to action remain

46:53

top of mind and can expand

46:55

your understanding of what's taking place.

46:57

Fortunately, there are also many organizations

47:00

that are working on solutions. Visit

47:02

doubleupamerica.org and see if you live in one

47:05

of the 25 states that

47:07

have programs to double a family's food

47:09

stamps at farmer's markets. If not, you

47:11

can contact the organization to begin working

47:13

on bringing it to your state and

47:16

make sure you share information about what you

47:18

learn on your socials. As Tom

47:20

and I discussed, we can't always tell

47:22

who is hungry and who's struggling, so

47:24

spread what you know and share information.

47:27

If you want information on where your state

47:29

is on universal school meals or

47:32

summer lunches for kids, known as Sunbucks, check

47:34

out the website for Food Research and Action

47:37

Center, frac.org, slash

47:39

health school meals for

47:41

all. They have a

47:43

Get Involved section where you can get in touch

47:45

with your state legislators and let them know how

47:47

much you care about this issue. If you

47:50

want to help mitigate the effects of food deserts

47:52

in your community, look into mobile

47:54

produce trucks. You can support

47:57

the eco-friendly Mobile Farm Stand project,

47:59

which provides urban farmers with electric

48:01

mobile farm stands to deliver their

48:03

produce and neighborhoods that need it.

48:06

They need donations, support with buying

48:08

the trucks, and help

48:10

finding urban farmers that might be interested.

48:13

Visit efmfsp.com to learn

48:15

how to help. If

48:18

you want to ask us a question or

48:20

suggest a topic for us to cover, send

48:23

us an email at assemblyrequiredatcricut.com or leave us

48:25

a voicemail and you and your questions and

48:27

comments might be featured on the pod. Our

48:30

number is 213-293-9509. That

48:35

wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with

48:37

Stacey Abrams. I'll meet you here next week.

48:44

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is

48:46

a Cricut Media production. Our

48:48

lead show producer is Alona Minkowski

48:50

and our associate producer is Paulina

48:52

Velasco. Kirill Palliviv is our video

48:55

producer. This episode was recorded and

48:57

mixed by Evan Sutton. Our theme

48:59

song is by Vasilis Watopoulos. Thank

49:01

you to Matt DeGroat, Kyle

49:04

Seglen, Tyler Bueser, and Samantha

49:06

Slosberg for production support. Our

49:08

executive producers are Katie Long,

49:10

Madeline Harringer, and me, Stacey

49:12

Abrams. It's

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