0:00

389 Hamilton is a veteran Iowa

0:02

Escrow who I've had the pleasure of

0:04

sitting in many ceremonies with over

0:06

the years. He's really the

0:08

first person to open up

0:11

the field of Ayahuasca as

0:13

far as what's actually happening between

0:15

the inter shaman dynamics that's going

0:18

on in the jungle. And he knows very

0:20

intimately about those dynamics because

0:22

he actually found his lineage because

0:25

he experienced some of the

0:27

dark magic of the Shamanic 389.

0:30

And I've told the story about

0:32

how my former fiance, Whitney

0:34

Miller, actually also experienced

0:36

some dark magic at place that wasn't there

0:38

with her, and how Hamilton and

0:41

his teacher, Maestro Alberto, who

0:43

came from the lineage of Maestro Julio,

0:47

actually healed And I know it's unbelievable

0:50

to imagine, but actually healed Whitney in

0:52

front of my eyes 389 some of this dark

0:54

magic. So I've seen him at

0:56

work and we've had these discussions which

0:58

are wildly illuminating. And

1:00

also, I understand completely

1:03

sound like we're in a Star Wars movie or

1:05

something. And so I brought him

1:07

on again for this podcast because I wanted

1:09

to go a little bit deeper. It's been a while since we

1:11

saw each other in person. Exploring the

1:13

nature of consciousness. He's one of

1:15

the few people that have that level

1:17

of experience and also the ability to

1:19

articulate the wild

1:22

ineffable that you do experience

1:24

in psychedelic medicine, and also

1:26

to talk about the necessity to

1:29

be warriors of consciousness

1:31

in a way and not so much that you're

1:33

looking to pick a fight, but that you're

1:36

prepared for whatever energy you might

1:38

encounter out there. And how to

1:40

transcend the fear and

1:42

create a safe protected space.

1:44

And I really appreciate Hamilton

1:47

for that. So I hope you guys

1:49

get a lot out of and enjoy this podcast

1:51

with Maestro Hamilton. But before we get

1:53

started, a word from our sponsors. And

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up, we have mud water. Now mud 389 is

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It has four adaptogenic mushrooms, it

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it's really a coffee alternative. It has

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a fraction of the caffeine of a cup of coffee,

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but I do like a little bit of caffeine and

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389 just hits that sweet spot. It doesn't

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have a bunch of sugar or anything in there. So if

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you 389 add your own sweet you're welcome to

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mudwater is just one of those things that 389 you're

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5:47

just 389. And four Vision 389 is

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over fifteen Amazonian tribes that

6:06

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6:08

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6:20

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magic fund, and other

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different Amazonian operations with missions

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year, four Visions 389, their spearheading,

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a native plant reforestation and

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6:39

hundreds of indigenous people there. The

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And now an uninterrupted podcast with

8:50

389 Hamilton. 389 Hamilton.

8:52

We're

8:52

back. We're back, Aubrey. Yeah. It's

8:55

been a minute,

8:55

man. It's been a long minute. Yeah.

8:58

389 good to see you. It's really good to see you.

9:00

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Some

9:03

wild shit's been going on in the world.

9:05

Since we last saw each Souther. Indeed. And

9:07

what we're talking about is it's like,

9:09

I think overall, all there's lots of

9:11

different ways in which this

9:13

has affected our daily lives and our

9:16

centers and, you know, and who I say

9:18

are, but your center and and different ways

9:20

in which 389 structures

9:22

have changed because of that. But the

9:24

biggest change for me was just the meta

9:26

framework that now

9:28

It's 389 time. Like like this

9:31

feeling like, okay. Kind of

9:33

what we've been training for our whole

9:35

lives. Is now coming to

9:37

bear. And it's like, now

9:39

389 time to, yes, always keep learning, keep growing,

9:41

but it's a little bit of, like, take what

9:43

you got and start putting

9:45

it putting it to use in the world because

9:47

it's time.

9:49

Yeah. I mean, I agree. know, the

9:51

last series of ceremonies we did, it was clear

9:53

that it was mission on. Yeah. It

9:55

was definitely 389

9:56

time. And the last years have shown

9:59

us

9:59

why. Yeah. Yeah.

10:01

The he said that there's,

10:03

you know, a long time ago, one of the things that

10:05

you taught me is, like, there's two primary forces

10:08

love and delusion. And

10:10

I think that language always

10:13

stuck with me as really

10:15

important because I think

10:18

there's a way in which you can make the

10:20

darkness or whatever you wanna call

10:22

it as real as

10:24

the love. And if you do

10:26

that, you're just in mortal

10:28

combat forever. But when

10:30

you actually realize that's

10:32

all just delusion, a

10:34

distortion through a

10:36

prism, then you actually understand

10:38

the whole construct in

10:40

a different way. So help

10:42

people kind of like unpack that

10:45

concept of the

10:47

idea of love as

10:49

the universal force and then delusion

10:51

as the opposing force and like

10:53

what that 389 of means to you and how that's

10:55

potentially evolved over

10:57

over the decade.

10:59

I think in that context, love is

11:02

synonymous with Souther. And

11:04

love is meaning everything, but

11:06

as a whole, in its totality,

11:08

not piece meal, not separated, not

11:10

hallmark card, not I love my

11:12

mom or, you know, I love my wife

11:14

or I love my girlfriend or whatever.

11:16

It's not It's everything. It's it's the

11:18

totality of the universe, the

11:20

force of creation, this idea

11:22

that there is no opposing force

11:24

in absolute 389. In

11:27

that instigating

11:30

capacity to create. Just the universe

11:32

started creating and it has not stopped. It's

11:34

creating right now. It's creating through us. 389 creating

11:37

this 389. It's creating everything that's going on

11:39

in the world. And then the

11:41

delusion comes in 389 in

11:43

our history where we start

11:45

to take our ideas and

11:47

we use the mind and we use the

11:49

imagination to create thoughts that are just

11:51

fundamentally not based in fact anymore.

11:53

And we use shapes and we use symbols

11:55

and we use concepts and colors

11:58

and beliefs and tradition all wrapped

12:00

around it. And it becomes literally

12:02

delusion, but it's so real to us. It's

12:04

so palpable. It makes so much sense to

12:06

us that we don't see

12:08

that it's no longer representing just

12:10

that pure force of creation. Yeah. And

12:12

we're involved in it. We're in the middle of it.

12:14

And so that delusion isn't independent

12:17

of humanity. It's being created

12:19

by humanity. It's fueled by source,

12:21

but it's being created by us. And

12:23

the biggest illusion of all is the us versus

12:25

them 389. Within it. And

12:27

that's the truly the root of all evil in that

12:29

delusion is that there's some other

12:31

them to be having

12:33

that conflict with in the first

12:34

place. Yeah. It's a myth of separation at the

12:37

very root of the story of delusion.

12:39

And Astral, creation of dilution,

12:41

the genesis of delusion 389, requires

12:43

separation. Once you have separation,

12:45

then you have rival risk conflict with win

12:47

those metrics in good, bad, and all

12:49

of this understanding. So Which is

12:52

real in some dimensional reality

12:54

and also delusion farther

12:56

you go all the way up to truth

12:59

then 389 some point on the

13:01

train, you find the you

13:03

find the spot where you you notice the

13:05

delusion. But you have to understand, like, kind of the

13:07

multidimensional nature of a thing. You

13:09

get lost in fear along the way. And

13:11

as soon as you get

13:11

scared, you refracked. You pull

13:14

away from just being in the

13:16

flow and being part of this natural

13:18

state of consciousness and 389 starts

13:20

to just, like, sonar pinging

13:22

off of that fear into

13:24

that place of delusion and it just blows

13:26

out. It's immediate. It's total. It's

13:28

overwhelming. It's all encompassing. And

13:30

then what do you do? Most people live in it all

13:32

the time. And so when they're driving their car,

13:34

they're in 389. When they go to bed, they're in it, when they

13:36

dream they're in it, when they wake up and have their

13:38

coffee, they're in it, they're brushing their teeth in it, they go to the

13:40

bathroom in it, and they don't have an

13:42

out.

13:42

But you know, through different psychedelic work

13:45

and ceremonial work, you can see through

13:47

that delusion and you can say, oh,

13:49

okay. All I need to do is calm down

13:51

I need to go to my source of love. I gotta go

13:53

back to my 389. And we

13:55

used to, you know, teach that through the heart. I

13:57

mean, we still do, but -- Yeah. When we

13:59

first started talking about, we'd say it's it's through this

14:01

gateway, not through the brain gateway. So, you

14:03

know, go to the heart where the heart

14:05

doesn't have the thoughts themselves 389 literally

14:07

turn it off and Astral, in

14:09

the last week of Ayahuasca

14:12

Sessions I was doing, we got into this

14:14

situation where there was a lot of

14:16

that at

14:16

play. A lot of the the guests that were there were

14:18

really interested in exploring that delusion.

14:21

And they were feeling

14:22

like something oh, dude. They were feeling

14:24

something was missing for not doing that because

14:26

the first ceremonies didn't have any of that in it. I kept

14:28

all of that

14:28

out. Yeah. And then

14:29

they're coming to me going like, but I heard all these

14:32

stories that it's supposed to be like and they

14:34

started comparing and I'm like, okay,

14:36

So the third ceremony, I let him turn

14:38

it up. Right? Dude, it became

14:40

chaos and seconds and stuff like

14:42

that. And then after we after that, I

14:44

just literally turned it off reset the

14:46

entire ceremony, and then

14:48

just started giving these commands. Just

14:50

389 go down, turn fear down, turn

14:52

the delusion off, awaken source, awaken

14:54

the inner and then turned all

14:56

of the medicine back on in the ceremony and

14:58

it was basically 389. And it

15:00

just showed that that delusions coming from

15:03

us and most of us

15:03

are, like, into it 389 cotton candy.

15:06

And 389 almost feels like in order to get

15:08

something of value, maybe it's

15:10

this puritanical work

15:12

ethic mindset, 389, or this

15:14

other idea, like, if there's gonna be

15:16

anything of value, it's gotta be

15:18

hard. So if you're gonna if you're

15:20

gonna actually learn something, you gotta go

15:22

into the deep shit in the shadow world.

15:24

389 can't be the love and bliss path.

15:27

Like, it's and it's kind of a wild thing

15:29

because that idea is a self fulfilling prophecy and

15:31

you see that in relationship work and all

15:33

kinds of work where it's like it's 389 be hard. It's

15:35

the 389. It's That's that's 389 teacher.

15:37

It's like, yeah, it is a great teacher.

15:39

Sometimes 389 the only teacher that's available.

15:41

But if your goal is to get to

15:43

love, ecstasy, bliss, beauty,

15:46

why not learn from love x's sea

15:48

bliss and 389. Right? Like, of

15:50

course, wouldn't that be your teacher if that's

15:52

where you wanna go? I always thought you gotta

15:54

deal with the hellish stuff in heaven.

15:56

You don't wanna go deal with it in

15:58

hell. You're already in hell. You don't know

16:00

how to deal with it there. You wanna go

16:02

deal with it in the nicest place possible.

16:04

So I was like, you gotta create the heaven

16:06

health 389. You have all the

16:08

helpers in

16:09

there. You gotta be completely relaxed 389 chilling.

16:11

You're getting a foot massage. Yeah. That's

16:13

when you deal with

16:14

your shadow. That's what I'm saying. I'm not dealing

16:16

with my shadow in the shadow.

16:17

389 that is the shot. I want it in the sex

16:20

temple. That's what I 389 appreciate. You

16:22

got that. I'm sure you already

16:24

figured that one out.

16:26

That's the move. That's

16:28

the move. I'm fucking to I'm totally

16:30

with you. And so what's

16:33

interesting too is there's

16:35

There's It's so all

16:37

of this is is riddled with so much

16:40

paradox because in

16:41

Souther, real capacity, there

16:44

are forces that are looking

16:46

to put 389

16:49

push forward an agenda of top down

16:51

control increase separation,

16:53

increase chaos. Right? 389, actually,

16:56

it feels like whether

16:58

it's just like wanting to create like

17:01

the natural reproductive impulse

17:03

of delusion 389, trying to reproduce

17:05

389. But it feels like there is

17:08

this force that's actively undermining

17:11

our efforts 389 feels very

17:13

real. And then but as we said, you keep

17:15

zooming out and then you see that actually

17:17

the catalyst for that's actually just a catalyst

17:19

for growth in part of eros,

17:21

the love beauty intelligence of the cosmos.

17:24

Always moving through us in this constant

17:26

evolution

17:26

that, you know, you could call love as

17:28

well. So I

17:29

think it's

17:31

it's difficult and also important for people to understand

17:34

that sometimes you

17:36

have to deal with things on

17:38

in a multidimensional way when they

17:40

have multidimensional 389?

17:42

Yeah, I

17:43

mean, first unpacking

17:46

the idea of this taught down, you know, control 389.

17:48

That's been in play in our mythology for

17:50

twenty 389, thirty thousand years, forty

17:52

thousand years. That's not a a lot

17:54

of time if we think of Earth's history.

17:57

But for human history and for what we know of as being

17:59

modern humans, that's an unbelievable amount of

18:01

time. And so if we start to create that

18:03

together, we can make that

18:05

real. We can make that into something that

18:07

truly exists in its own right. We have

18:09

the capacity to be able to create entities. We

18:11

create corporations. They're corporate entities in

18:13

their own right. And so in that way, we've given

18:16

life and and and

18:18

energy so much to that idea of that

18:20

matrix. It's now real and it's something that

18:22

we need to look at. It doesn't mean that it's

18:24

universally true. It just means that it

18:26

now exists. Right. And that becomes

18:28

part of It becomes part

18:30

of of something that maybe we will have to ultimately

18:32

deal with and unwind. You see it in

18:34

families like young parents

18:37

who immediately have their first child and then all

18:39

of a sudden create that matrix within their

18:41

house. Their house had almost no rules, now they have a

18:43

kid and now the whole house is

18:45

rules. Yeah. And there's very little latitude or leeway

18:47

to deal with

18:47

it. You

18:48

know, the inter dimensionality

18:51

of it is really

18:53

built into the construct of how we create

18:55

that delusion in the first

18:56

place. So

18:58

we create a delusion and a refraction

19:00

and fear. We step away

19:03

from just innate reality. We step

19:05

away from trust. We step away from

19:07

love. We step away from

19:09

something that's greater than just

19:12

our individual life. We make everything

19:14

temporal. Everything becomes

19:16

past present

19:17

future. Everything becomes this very, very finite

19:20

amount of time that relates only to the

19:21

body. Right?

19:22

389 unbelievable fear associated with that and

19:25

then all the manipulations on top

19:27

of that Where that control matrix is being made is inside

19:29

our

19:29

brains. That's the thing that people don't really realize. They

19:32

wanna externalize it, but it's not.

19:34

It's inside our brains. And

19:36

if you our where we have checks and balances,

19:38

those checks and balances are built 389

19:40

the thought matrix 389 literally everything.

19:42

So everybody's within that same

19:45

control

19:45

matrix. isn't anybody in our society

19:47

that's ultimately free from it. That's just walking

19:49

around, free swinging and Well, we we can't

19:51

be if we understand 389 connected nature.

19:53

Of who we are. Correct. We're all in a

19:55

shared connected

19:56

field. So if it exists,

19:58

we are in --

19:59

We're sure.

19:59

-- 389 with it. We're sharing with. Why

20:01

I say we're gonna have to deal with our creation. So we have

20:03

to unwind that delusion in that

20:05

inter 389. And that's

20:08

something that we can do through sacred plant ceremonies or

20:10

Ayahuasca ceremonies. Because you can get in there

20:12

and you can unhinge the fixations

20:16

that and uncouple those fixations

20:18

that make that all of a sudden,

20:20

you know, instead of something

20:22

so constricted, that can't move it, you can't

20:24

break it, you can't see beyond it, you

20:26

can awaken it to being able to

20:28

engage the field, release

20:30

the fixations, open up and be able to

20:32

see beyond those delusions. You

20:34

wake up from the delusion. Almost 389 silly

20:36

and it's sad and it's 389 crashing away, but it

20:38

seems silly when you see how simple

20:40

the delusion really is when you wake up from

20:42

389, and how how little time it takes.

20:44

It takes from like 389. And

20:46

the brain just goes click. And that is

20:49

an interdimensional expression.

20:52

When we look around us, we think seeing

20:54

the

20:54

world, but we're actually seeing the

20:56

reflection of light and we're seeing it inside

20:58

our minds.

20:59

It's a wild thing. We think this

21:01

space around us is what we're what it really is, but

21:03

it's only a tiny tiny bit of what it really

21:05

is. Yeah. We make it beautiful, you know,

21:08

decorate it, change it

21:10

up, put different shapes in it, different colors in it, but

21:12

all of that's just stimulating our brains.

21:14

When you open up beyond that, you realize that

21:16

this is the interdimensional

21:17

field. Our mythology lives within

21:20

389.

21:20

The entities that

21:20

are associated with it live within

21:23

it. What we see inside our sacred plants

21:25

ceremonies 389 within it -- Mhmm. -- the fears that

21:27

everybody has that you see

21:29

propagated on the news and, you know, by all

21:31

different kinds of top down organizations,

21:33

live within it. And it's it's

21:35

just of that matrix. And it's our decision what ultimately do

21:37

with it, which is why I think it's time

21:39

for the the real mission to be on, which

21:41

is to evolve us to the next

21:43

level beyond the need for that.

21:45

389. It

21:47

reminds me of the first,

21:50

you know, principle of

21:52

the Kibali on the 389 principle.

21:54

All his mind, the universe is 389. And

21:56

this understanding of how inextricable,

21:59

the understanding of the universe is

22:01

with the understanding of our mind.

22:03

And how our mind is constantly an

22:07

aspect of what we

22:09

understand the universe to be. And it's

22:11

inescapable for us to really

22:13

grasp anything without the interface of

22:15

our mind, which is containing in

22:18

some way and like mapping

22:20

and mirroring you know, the

22:22

universe and actually the story

22:24

of the universe and the perception and the

22:26

codification of all of

22:28

it is required in this larger

22:31

mindscape. And then I think that

22:33

also is what

22:35

allows us to understand and

22:38

give open the possibility for 389, what

22:40

we would call magic. Mhmm. It's gonna when

22:42

we realize that our mind is

22:45

inextricable from the cosmos

22:47

389, as we change our mind

22:49

and set our mind to

22:51

another thing, the universe becomes

22:53

far more malleable than

22:55

the newtonian causality, which if it's a strong story,

22:58

of course, exists, 389 it's

23:01

real. But 389, like,

23:03

you can start to maneuver

23:05

these different in these different ways, either

23:07

from mental alchemy, which is the

23:09

simplest form to actual

23:12

very strange occurrences that can happen

23:14

with synchronistically with weather

23:17

and and and coordination with

23:19

animals and wind and and

23:21

these things that traditionally would be found in

23:24

fairy tale books or

23:26

fantasy novels.

23:28

When we were out in the Amazon, what we were seeking was to

23:30

try to prove all of that. We were

23:32

trying to actually find ways to prove whether

23:34

any of the mythological context

23:36

had enough power do something

23:38

about what seemed like 389 an earth that had gone

23:41

in a desperate direction -- Mhmm. --

23:43

and how you would try to create a

23:45

force strong enough to

23:47

be able to kind of course correct along

23:49

that way. And what we ended up

23:51

figuring out was that it wasn't about

23:53

a movement outward. It was about

23:55

going so

23:56

inward. That from the inside,

23:58

you end up being

24:00

able to find infinity. So it

24:02

wasn't 389 to find infinity out there.

24:05

It was go so inside you that you could find the

24:07

infinity that was in your

24:07

matter. And it would make us

24:10

question over and over again,

24:12

how much of us was really the

24:14

matter? Versus how much

24:16

was the matter just an anchor for

24:18

the rest of 389? And then we had to go

24:20

explore, what was that rest of us? And

24:22

that's a wild course as well through delusion and,

24:25

you know, justification

24:26

389 desire

24:29

389 trying to figure out how all of that 389 of plays itself

24:31

out along the way. But

24:33

but really we found that

24:34

you find the infinity from 389. Then

24:38

you start to explore beyond and

24:40

it's like piercing the veil of of physicality

24:42

of the matter beyond us. I mean --

24:44

Yeah. -- when we're fixated on ourselves and we're

24:46

looking out at this incredible of view, the

24:48

earth looks huge. You know? But if you

24:50

get really far away from earth, like 389 the

24:52

rings of Saturn, earth looks smaller than pee.

24:54

It looks like smaller than a drop of

24:57

water. From galaxies further away from that,

24:59

you can't even see it. It's it's almost

25:01

nothing, you know. And so I think when we go deep

25:03

inside ourselves, that's where we actually

25:05

find out how how

25:07

big we can really be and how

25:09

much more of us is beyond the mind,

25:11

which is really like an encapsulation and a

25:13

codification like you mentioned

25:15

of that totality of that energy.

25:17

But you move beyond those codes as

25:19

well, you move into sort of universal

25:21

sets of codes, interdimensional

25:23

sets of codes, you move beyond the mythology,

25:25

you move beyond the entities and beyond

25:27

the beings that hold together our story,

25:29

All of a sudden, space time relativity

25:32

scale, they all disappear. Yeah.

25:34

The purity of consciousness is still

25:36

there. You're still alive. You still

25:38

know it. have no

25:40

determined 389. There is no

25:42

newtonian physics. Newton's long

25:44

gone. He's just an ancestor at

25:46

that

25:46

point. You know.

25:47

The science that people are doing now is trying

25:50

to prove the things that you're tapping into and

25:52

actually using to have that

25:54

experience. Yeah. You know? And then in

25:56

that space, you do realize that there

25:58

is a field. It's not just you

26:00

and emptiness. It's not just you. In

26:03

there's no way to tell where the beginning of that field

26:05

is and where you are within

26:06

it. You are of the field and it is

26:08

seamless. Yeah. Call it arrow, call

26:10

it shakina, call it the dial.

26:13

different flavors of the field. They

26:15

know that that have kind of permeated

26:17

our understanding, but are very difficult to

26:19

actually havenosis of until you've

26:21

actually felt the field. In

26:23

some way. And, you know, I think

26:25

that's always 389 interesting

26:27

to, you know, you can have

26:29

all this philosophy and theory and

26:31

whatever, but without the plants 389 without

26:34

some practice or some,

26:36

you know, wild 389 experience

26:39

where you just happen to snap into

26:41

a state of consciousness, which certainly 389

26:43

happen and there's many ways. And we just

26:45

had 389 unbelievably powerful breath

26:47

work experience where people shared

26:50

experiences of merging with the

26:52

field through the potentially

26:54

endogenous DMT released through the

26:56

breathwork, which has now been shown in clinical

26:58

research as part of what's happening.

27:00

Great documentary called DMT Quest

27:02

that showed some of these

27:04

mechanisms and Astral tried to hint

27:06

that DMT was part of what

27:09

created our understanding of

27:11

reality and helped us make sense of this

27:13

universal field of energy. Was

27:15

actually DMT was creating our reality. And

27:17

so when you add more, it actually shows you an

27:19

even, like, a deeper

27:21

reality behind what it's been

27:23

creating. But until you,

27:25

like, have that have that felt

27:28

experience, it's very difficult

27:30

to, like, really even come close

27:32

to grasping it.

27:33

Yeah. Like,

27:34

it's in it's all intellectual at that

27:36

point. Yeah.

27:37

What are we talking about when we talk about the field?

27:39

We're talking about 389

27:41

time. What people call space time. We're talking

27:44

about the universe. And then you have to

27:46

ask, well, where did the universe come from

27:48

389 the level of field that doesn't have an

27:50

origin? Doesn't come from anywhere. And

27:52

it's creating 389 itself. So

27:54

it kinda inside out all of

27:56

the ways that we feel cut off and separated

27:59

from

27:59

it. If we haven't had those experiences, we

28:01

have to ask ourselves

28:02

why? What is

28:03

Capa's from having those experiences? Why are

28:05

we returning to the plants that taught us the origins

28:07

of culture from over fifty thousand to a

28:10

hundred thousand years ago. Yeah. Why do we actually

28:12

have to go back into the plants

28:14

to be able to regain understanding of connection. And I

28:16

think it ultimately comes down to

28:19

linguistics and the ways that language

28:21

has codified or our

28:23

use of language has codified the

28:24

mind. So we have now this

28:27

idea of separation interwoven

28:29

into absolutely everything. I mean And that's part of

28:31

the control. Language chopping things in little

28:33

pieces all the time -- Yeah. -- all the

28:35

389. And making little boxes around everything.

28:37

Even when I say boxes, it's making a

28:39

box Totally. 389, you can't escape, but

28:41

we can't have a 389 without a

28:43

million little 389 we're making of

28:46

reality. 389. All the time, like

28:48

fucking hero dreams of podcasting. 389,

28:50

that's that's what

28:53

we're that's what we're

28:53

doing. It's about it's the tool we have right

28:56

now, but you have we do have tools our

28:58

disposal that go beyond that. That's a beautiful

29:00

thing. Like you mentioned, breath work. There's a number of

29:02

different tools we 389. Meditation. 389 then

29:04

when you get into the sacred plants, which

29:07

amazing about them is how fast it can

29:09

be. It's the accelerant. And it's

29:11

not a 389 not that it's a a

29:13

race to enlightenment, but because, you

29:15

know, on the integration side, it can take

29:17

years to ultimately -- Right. -- deal with certain

29:19

experiences that we have inside

29:21

ceremony. But it's an accelerant to being

29:23

able to have the experience so that these

29:25

concepts that we're using and the

29:27

Sashimi are actually

29:27

palpable. It's something that we can relate to. And if

29:30

389 can

29:30

enjoy this Sashimi,

29:32

Why not? 389, like, really, actually, you

29:34

know, it's almost like what I find is the

29:36

farther I go out, the more I

29:38

enjoy being in. You

29:40

know, it's a gift. That's the that's

29:42

the real gift of 389. And you go

29:44

out and you straighten the you straighten the

29:46

deep story. And, you know, we're here

29:48

with my brothers, Kyle and Eric.

29:50

He's my soul fan. And, you know,

29:52

fellow Journiers and all of the different

29:54

medicines and all the different ways. And,

29:56

you know, they they've encountered things

29:58

that haven't

29:59

particularly, you know, bothered me. I

30:02

haven't found myself in

30:03

those realms. 389

30:04

nonetheless, and I'll and I'll talk about this a little bit. I

30:07

was in a a Themis golf

30:09

ceremony yesterday with a really

30:11

potent medicine woman named

30:13

named

30:13

Wyda. And she's also a

30:13

great musician. She was out here for our Fit for

30:16

Service Summit.

30:17

And we're in the

30:20

black of the sweat, you 389, and

30:22

she's has her drum and singing

30:24

these exquisite, you know, 389 songs

30:27

and we're offering our

30:29

prayers and as

30:31

hot as hell, it's two hundred and twenty degrees in

30:33

there, and the 389 getting poured.

30:35

And it's like a womb

30:37

space, but it's a very uncomfortable womb

30:39

space. And you start to feel like

30:41

you're in a prison. It's black.

30:43

It's confined. You can't

30:45

go anywhere and somebody else

30:47

is in charge. In this case, the feminine was in

30:50

charge. And this clear vision came

30:52

through. And then I then I had this connection

30:54

of, oh, this is

30:56

either a prison I'm

30:58

stuck here in this two hundred and twenty

31:00

degrees sweating and I can't leave I mean, I

31:02

could. I could force my way out, but that

31:05

would break the container. Also be

31:07

extremely embarrassing to my friends. I

31:09

was a one hundred. A lot of your guys

31:12

growing out. Yeah. That'd be tough. They

31:14

wouldn't look at me quite Same

31:16

way for a while. Yeah. You know, that'd be

31:18

a tough one to go go beyond.

31:20

So, here I am. I'm in this. And

31:22

then as soon as I connect it to

31:24

an even deeper prayer and an even deeper gratitude in love and

31:26

felt 389 I felt

31:28

the mother again, felt the heartbeat

31:30

389 the of cosmos,

31:32

of arrows. So the womb, I realized

31:34

389 the prison actually 389.

31:37

And it gave me this vision of the very

31:39

first prison we've ever been

31:41

in is the womb. Same thing.

31:44

Black, you're stuck, you

31:46

can't go anywhere, and you're subject to

31:48

the control in the whims of the mother,

31:50

for sure. Right. But we've never

31:52

we never thought of the womb as a prison because

31:54

we were always connected to the heartbeat of

31:57

the mother. So all we

31:59

felt was that connection,

32:01

that constant connection. So in

32:03

our mind, that never was

32:05

a prison. Even though if we could look at it now and be like, 389, that was the

32:07

fucking tightest prison I've ever been and it's the

32:09

tightest fucking spot. And

32:11

and this this reality

32:14

that 389 it takes

32:16

to change where you are

32:18

from what could be a

32:20

prison to actually heaven, which

32:22

is where it ultimately I was

32:24

able to step into was

32:26

just feeling the heartbeat of

32:28

the mother, feeling the heartbeat of the womb.

32:30

And then all of a sudden, this prison

32:32

was just this infinite playground where vision

32:34

started to come and where my heart

32:36

could actually sing a prayer that was true

32:38

and a voice that was true. That's beautiful. And it

32:40

was a it was a gift. And

32:42

so it's just this this turning of a story, you

32:45

know, was really all it took to

32:47

kind of pierce what was, in that

32:49

case, a delusion of a prison.

32:52

Into the truth of, actually,

32:54

if I'm connected 389 connected to wider who's

32:56

leading the lodge, who's the divine mother

32:58

in that case, connected to my own

33:00

divine mother, my own heart. Here we are

33:03

in heaven, you know.

33:05

And that was like just this

33:07

beautiful example of how

33:09

just a story can

33:10

change, and the whole experience changes

33:13

with the story.

33:15

389 that experience, where where was

33:17

it that the mind shifted? It

33:24

shifted at the so I think the

33:26

mind has to

33:28

create It 389 only

33:30

it's only able to operate through story. Story

33:33

of past 389, future, story of

33:35

an

33:35

understanding, a codification of

33:38

reality. And so in the reality where

33:40

I can't go, I can't 389. It's

33:43

dark. I want I'm I'm

33:45

on 389 I'm confined you start focusing your

33:47

attention on that -- Yeah. -- then it

33:49

was a 389. And

33:52

then the story shifted is like, oh, here

33:54

I am in the womb again. And

33:56

here I am with this with the

33:58

divine Souther. In

34:00

me and also represented by the leader

34:02

of the lodge, you know, the 389 carrier

34:05

who was holding it and singing. And

34:08

then that 389 just once I felt

34:10

connected, 389 that story just

34:12

evaporated. And it yeah. It was still hot.

34:14

Didn't change it. It was

34:16

still hot. You know,

34:18

but the whole story changed and then everything

34:20

changed. My my shoulders

34:22

relaxed and, like, everything my

34:24

my smile crept on my face and

34:27

the whole thing kind of shifted. And the same thing can happen

34:29

in medicine where you find yourself in a

34:31

place, and then fear starts to come

34:33

in, you start to

34:36

have all of these ideas of all the dangers that it could be

34:38

389. And then you all that all

34:40

that needs to happen is you just connect back

34:43

to exact to source, back to love, back to

34:45

the heart. And the whole thing is

34:47

just 389 just changed, and the

34:49

prison walls

34:50

evaporate. And you find yourself

34:52

in a in a blissful field. When you

34:54

were

34:54

in the visions themselves, did you experience

34:57

heat at that time? Like,

35:04

the the answer is, like,

35:06

of course, there is some

35:08

part of my body that was

35:10

experiencing, but I wouldn't have called 389 heat. It would

35:12

actually be a lie if I was

35:14

to say that 389 was

35:16

heat. It was like it was just the substrate

35:18

of the of the heaven that

35:20

I was

35:21

in. Yeah.

35:21

And in that substrate, it

35:24

was just 389 just

35:26

this kind of radical acceptance for what it

35:28

was. So all of the ways

35:30

that heat is its own little piece of

35:32

sashimi

35:33

was fucking changed. So you I wouldn't have called it that. Actually,

35:35

it would be a lie because what I would have called heat

35:37

a minute before was not

35:40

the same

35:40

thing that

35:40

I would have called it then. Yeah. Yeah. You

35:43

know, you would

35:43

have to

35:44

use a different word like warmth, but even still 389 wouldn't

35:46

have actually even made sense. Yeah. No, I

35:49

asked that because there's this this moment

35:51

where the brain's running on the

35:54

language that it uses

35:56

during the day. Yeah. And it's

35:58

hot and it's tight and it's a prison and it's confined. And

36:00

then there's a moment where the brain does

36:02

something different. It's a shift in consciousness.

36:04

No one really understands what

36:06

is the trigger catalyst, when, why for

36:08

each 389, but it's a commonality amongst pretty much

36:11

everybody who's had these experiences that the shift

36:13

takes place. And when it does the context

36:15

that was there before changes, Mhmm.

36:17

So all the things that were causing the problems before are

36:20

not the same anymore. Yeah. And it's different

36:22

every 389, but that's why I 389 about the visions

36:24

themselves. Because when I've been in

36:26

those situations, when the visions really kick on everything that was the

36:28

context that was creating the

36:30

difficulty before the visions

36:32

always vanishes. Whether it's an

36:34

Ayahuasca, it could be nausea, it could be that

36:36

feeling like you're just whole 389 at

36:38

rapid boil and just can't breathe enough

36:40

or you realize you're hyperventilating,

36:42

you know, or it's in a sweat where it's just like you say just way too hot, you

36:44

389. Yeah. Like, just so hot. I've been in

36:46

those before where you're just

36:47

thinking, like, guys, they're way out. You

36:49

know? Yeah. Of course. I don't

36:51

think it's I actually don't think it's a good sweat

36:53

unless there's at least some point. It's some butt Where

36:55

you're like is I fucking I don't know.

36:57

Dude,

36:57

my name is no

37:00

headset. Yeah. Remember when I was then, I was in the sweat and

37:02

they put me on the opposite side of the door so I

37:04

could see the door, but the rocks are between me

37:06

and 389

37:06

door. There's no way I'd go over the rocks.

37:09

Yeah. It

37:10

just 389 so far away. Yeah. You know,

37:12

until it got hot enough and then that sugar

37:14

happened 389 then all the vision started

37:16

389 then it It wasn't hot. I remember in one

37:18

of those visions that 389 these buffalo robes

37:20

are put over me and I was

37:22

like, you cannot put buffalo

37:23

robes over me and the visions is already too

37:25

hot. You can't add robes. Right?

37:27

That was gonna be too much, but

37:29

then ultimately 389 was okay in the in the nature of

37:31

that itself. That was happening last week

37:34

in in the Ayahuasca

37:36

ceremonies where We were going really big, but we weren't going into We going

37:38

into this unbelievably stable

37:40

space by going inward. It was

37:44

very meditative. Very seemed very booty at first. Mhmm. But

37:46

then as the visions turned

37:48

on, it was 389 body became an

37:50

anchor, something that was stable.

37:52

And then the

37:54

visions could just grow and grow and grow and grow beyond that. And

37:56

the vision could become omnidirectional, but

37:58

in that sort of period

38:01

of time when that expansion was taking place. The

38:03

body struggled. Like, everybody in the sessions agreed

38:06

afterwards. They were like, oh, there's a lot of

38:08

nausea 389 there

38:10

was just that, you know, it wasn't physical heat, but that

38:12

kind of internal heat, you know, and that

38:14

pressure that was going

38:15

on. But then ultimately once 389 visions

38:17

fully turned on, then 389, all of that was

38:20

transcended. Yeah. Fear is such a

38:22

fear is such an important thing

38:24

to discuss. And there's There's

38:27

a kind of in the

38:29

Kabbalist, you know, mystery school tradition that

38:31

I've been studying. There's I think

38:33

it's not coming in Bresloved who

38:35

you know, kind of coined this idea that

38:38

life is a very narrow

38:40

bridge and the secret is to

38:43

have no fear at all. And

38:45

my teacher Mark Gaffney explains it 389 imagine

38:47

that you were walking on a bridge, let's call

38:49

it four feet across. Now unless

38:51

you're wildly drunk, you're not gonna

38:53

fall off a bridge that's four feet Right? You can walk it. But if

38:56

it's a thousand feet in the air,

38:58

shit 389. Even

39:00

though it's four feet across. You got plenty of room. It's not a balance beam. Yeah.

39:03

You know? But imagine that same

39:05

thing is on the ground. One

39:07

foot off the 389. You're walking through a botanical garden.

39:10

It's a four foot path. You're

39:12

not scared. And and

39:14

it's this idea that 389 actually fear

39:16

that takes something that and when you

39:19

are

39:19

scared, actually, you would get wobbly. Like, if it's a thousand

39:21

feet up, we're not talking about 389 or anything. Like,

39:23

you would get wobbly on

39:25

thing. It may be nauseous. And then actually, it might

39:27

even become dangerous because of the

39:29

fear 389. When Astral the

39:31

path is narrow,

39:34

but clear, and and it's fear actually that gives you the

39:36

wobble 389 makes it seem like it's

39:38

actually dangerous. And that seems to be

39:40

an experience that happens that

39:42

I find as a metaphor

39:44

over and over in the

39:46

ceremonial journeys I'm in. It's 389, as

39:48

long as you stay,

39:50

you know, with the secret, which is the secret is to have no fear at

39:52

all. You just walk straight

39:54

through all of that and you

39:56

realize there's plenty

39:58

of room and you're not off balance 389 you're

40:00

good. You know, I think we

40:02

create the fear and we

40:04

externalize that

40:06

389. That something else is triggering the fear, but we create it. Right?

40:08

There could be a trigger and you

40:11

don't have to create fear. The

40:14

fear itself is something that's innate to us. Trying to

40:16

deny the fear I think is a rejection of something

40:18

that's just fact. Yep. We all know how to

40:20

create

40:21

fear. We can all get scared.

40:23

389 can happen to us where

40:25

the mind can start to come up with thoughts and

40:27

the thoughts are scarier than what's

40:29

actually

40:29

happening. All the the

40:32

what ifs if this happens, you

40:34

know, the coulds and the

40:36

stories about what the environment

40:38

is that you're in. And I think this is

40:40

something that's 389 I wanna

40:42

I wanna talk to you 389 I think this happened

40:44

because you were coming because it was like an

40:46

illustrative kind of example

40:48

of a place that I got in

40:51

So I was in a deep ketamine

40:54

cannabis journey, you know,

40:56

fairly recently. And I'm

40:58

in this journey and and I mean,

41:01

absolute like this unbelievable merger with this kind of

41:03

source field. And then out

41:05

of nowhere, there's

41:08

this look like this kind

41:10

of large guy and you had this kind of

41:12

like you had kind of 389 clothes on and

41:14

a mask and he comes right at

41:16

me. And he goes and throw like an elbow, like a

41:18

elbow, like a ride across, like a muhitai elbow. And I

41:21

think 389, like, kinda dodged

41:23

it or, like, made myself invisible, so he wouldn't

41:25

miss. So it didn't like land, but it was like

41:28

asshole, you

41:29

know, out of nowhere. 389

41:32

then then we kinda like And then

41:34

the being that being or thought was

41:36

still 389. And I think that's an important

41:38

distinction, like, being or thought. Is

41:41

it a being? Or is it just a thought? Is it just

41:43

something that came through? Or is it a

41:45

thing? And so I started

41:47

this kind of interesting interesting kind of

41:50

dance with, alright, now this thing is here. And then

41:52

I started seeing all these visions

41:54

of different

41:56

human figures -- Mhmm. -- with, like, these these red zombie

41:58

eyes. Like, the being was actually making human

42:00

figures with these red zombies and

42:03

actually, you know, talked about it

42:05

a little bit, and then there's some different interpretations. But there was this this

42:07

kind of disruptive being. And there was just a

42:10

little bit of a little bit of

42:12

fear, not

42:14

much. And Vlana was actually here I just

42:16

leaned over to 389. I was like,

42:18

hey, there's this being here.

42:23

And I was like, and it it's

42:26

not

42:26

it's not benevolent, but

42:29

I'm not scared of

42:31

it. But here am and I'm in this I'm in

42:33

this spot. Now 389 options at

42:36

that time

42:38

was one, just don't believe it's a being and it will blink

42:40

out of existence and it'll just be a

42:42

thought. That was option

42:44

one. And I

42:46

was like, I don't know if I

42:48

got that in me right now to just

42:50

believe it right out of existence because

42:52

I do have this kind of understanding

42:54

of entities and obviously, all of

42:56

our talks. You know, we know that in the

42:58

belief of that reality, at the very least, that

43:00

reality is gonna be

43:02

very

43:02

real. So I couldn't quite believe it out of existence, although I

43:04

was close. Mhmm. And then

43:06

the other option

43:08

was to Souther actually, like, shush it

43:11

389. And we've talked about some of these kind

43:13

of Shamanic tools, and I've actually

43:15

recently gone on a a cinnamon

43:17

dieta, basically based on

43:19

the rose dieta, that you can lead me through, which was

43:21

incredibly powerful. But in the Cinema India, I I

43:24

learned an Icorro that was really

43:26

strong that allows me to

43:28

call in a lot of other

43:30

larger allies and forces. And I can weave it into the Icolo,

43:32

like the 389 of itself

43:34

389 like a calling of

43:38

of these beings. And I was like, well,

43:40

I'm an opt with plan b. I'm

43:42

389 shush it away. You know? Like, even though, like,

43:44

there was some part of me that was

43:48

I'm pretty sure I could just not believe that this

43:50

was real and it would just disappear.

43:52

But I made the choice to actually

43:54

go the magical route and push

43:57

it out. So, Vylana blew some cinnamon on me. I started

43:59

singing the 389. I called on

44:01

my big allies. 389

44:03

we chased it off into a wormhole back into the

44:06

cosmos. And and I

44:07

could see it and it

44:10

just left it like blinked through it had a

44:12

little 389 tail and it was fucking gone. It

44:14

was out of there. Didn't really solve

44:16

anything. It just kind of moved it out of

44:18

my consciousness at that point.

44:20

I

44:20

think, because of the faith I had in it.

44:21

brings up this interesting thing and it but it

44:24

was unsettling to

44:26

me because I don't want to

44:28

always be shushing things away,

44:30

you know, fundamentally. But

44:32

I also was grateful that I was able

44:34

to 389 it

44:35

away.

44:35

But I think for people who are entering the space, we

44:38

all have these different, and depending on

44:40

our own belief structures and ideas,

44:42

there's kind of like a

44:44

variety of options that are available. And I suppose a third option

44:46

would have been instead of just believing out of

44:48

389, like raising my frequency to

44:51

place and this is something you taught me as well, raise my

44:53

frequency to a place where I'm in the

44:55

field of love beauty, truth, intelligence

44:58

of the cosmos in which that thing

45:00

cannot exist. Or at least

45:02

cannot touch

45:02

me. It would be like a ghost trying to take

45:04

a swing at me. And I'm like, bitch, you're not

45:06

gonna

45:06

hit me. You know what I mean? Like, here I

45:09

am at love, you're not gonna touch this frequency.

45:11

So what would you say I guess

45:13

to me? And as me using

45:15

me as a proxy to other

45:17

people who are kind of journeying these

45:19

spaces and presented with this like similar

45:21

situation, but we'll just use this specific one as an example.

45:24

Yeah. I think it's very

45:26

hard to differentiate

45:28

thoughts from what

45:30

people call entities. And it's

45:32

very hard to differentiate where the mind

45:34

begins and ends and where entities would be

45:37

out in a field you

45:39

know, out in an energetic field. Kind of think

45:41

of it like scuba diving. You know,

45:44

if the fish are out there in the water and you

45:46

swim up to a school of fish, they're really there

45:48

before you even got there. Right?

45:50

Mhmm. That would have to be a real entity in

45:52

an interdimensional field -- Yeah. --

45:54

hanging out in some form of creation

45:56

that have some story about how that energy took that shape and form it

45:58

389 in the

45:58

past. It would have to actually be

46:00

real, not just a thought coming through your own

46:02

neural network 389 right the

46:05

brain mind coming up with some, you arranging some

46:07

quantum, you know,

46:09

matter to be able to make something, have a 389,

46:11

and make sense to

46:14

you. So from our exploration, those

46:16

those energies exist. Mhmm. Right? So

46:18

it's hard to differentiate. Is that entity

46:20

coming from me or is it coming

46:23

from somewhere else? So whenever we come into other kinds

46:25

of energies, the

46:28

very first thing we do is

46:31

even before we

46:32

get involved with them, we already have

46:34

raised our vibration and we've already called in

46:36

our helpers. Mhmm. So you got both.

46:39

Yeah. All all the tools are available.

46:41

Right? Mhmm. So you go into it first

46:43

with that understanding. Like, we're gonna

46:46

do some work tonight. And before we even

46:48

start, we're gonna call all the helpers, and we're

46:50

gonna raise our vibration, and we're gonna do a little

46:52

breath 389 to to make that real

46:54

before we start. Right? So we're gonna start

46:56

with

46:56

that. Then the

46:57

next

46:57

thing I wanna do is I

47:00

wanna define

47:01

the space around that thing. If that thing comes and takes a swing at me, I

47:04

wanna understand how it even had the opportunity

47:06

to take a swing at

47:07

me. 389, I need

47:10

to I need to rethink about how I define

47:12

that space. Mhmm. So

47:13

I'm not gonna look at the space itself. So

47:15

I want the space to be completely

47:17

in our favor. Yeah. Right? So it's our space. It's

47:19

not their space. It's our space. So this thing's

47:22

visiting. It's like I'm visiting

47:24

your place. Right? That's your place.

47:26

Right. Same

47:28

389. With the space. Souther define that within the

47:29

space. That that's our space. In the 389, they

47:32

call it your mesa. Correct. I I and

47:34

I can tell right now just

47:36

to add context to this. Like, that lands because was super lazy

47:39

with this with this ceremony. I

47:41

was hella lazy. There you go.

47:43

I was like, I'm

47:46

tired. Fuck it. 389 go let's go and

47:48

we're gonna get some quantum rest. We're just gonna

47:50

go in here. Yeah. I'm gonna surf around

47:52

a little bit. I had no intention. I had no opening

47:55

prayer. And I'm not advising this. Don't

47:57

take my sloppiness as a

47:59

permission slip. No. It's 389, I

48:01

was just lazy. And I was and

48:03

I was just kind of in a lazy, random, undefined

48:06

space. And then had this thing

48:08

happen and kinda

48:09

That's why. 389 yeah. Yeah.

48:12

I mean, that's why. But what's important though

48:14

is that this is an important lesson though. This is

48:16

an important lesson. You're either ahead of

48:18

the time in ceremony or you're

48:20

reacting to what happened in ceremony. Right. And then

48:22

you get ahead of it again 389 you have to

48:24

react. Right. So this set up a situation after react. So it kinda

48:26

snaps you out of your

48:26

reverie. Right? Yeah. If you're doing your, like, floater out, everything's

48:29

all good. Answer for that. Oh,

48:31

no. I guess, anyway, what? 389,

48:34

there's something else in the wave. Right? Like, the shark is now in the wave, but

48:36

you wake up from your ovary in the surf.

48:38

There's honestly nothing wrong with that. These

48:40

are all tools and techniques for

48:43

all the different possible reasons that things could happen. It's

48:45

there's redundancies built on redundancies built on

48:47

even more redundancies. Right? Mhmm. So

48:49

one is

48:51

space. The next one is your crew.

48:53

Right? Your bossy, the beings you

48:56

work with, the mythologies you

48:58

relate 389, the

49:00

the energies that you work with, you have

49:02

them there too. You know, if you

49:04

do the work often and you call

49:07

on them often, they appear immediately. Yeah. So they're

49:09

always there for you. You know? We worked with

49:11

that years ago, and so they'll always be there

49:13

with you whenever you need them. Yeah.

49:15

Just call them. And then

49:18

then there's this idea that,

49:20

you know, what's that thing's

49:22

intention? I need to understand

49:25

its intention. So in this case, it took a swing at you,

49:27

which could seem threatening. Right? But maybe that's not

49:29

really its 389 intention. Maybe its intention was to

49:31

snap you out of something. Maybe its

49:33

intention was to to show

49:36

you something. Maybe it was gonna teach you

49:38

something. Yeah. Right? And the reason why I asked

49:40

that is because when something hits you hard, you

49:42

know 389. Like, it really hits. It it -- Right. Right. -- it thunders you

49:44

and you're not okay afterwards. It's like taking a

49:46

389 from a heavyweight. No. It it wade lands. And

49:48

this one did this one didn't

49:49

land. That's what I'm

49:49

saying. Right?

49:52

That's the difference. So when I hear that, I'm like, okay, been hit

49:54

when it lands, and it's like, oh,

49:56

389, Bell got wrong. 389,

49:59

now now now game is on. Right? The game is on. Your

50:01

cat and mouse game is on. But -- Right. -- this is like

50:04

showing you something. Right? And it's showing you

50:06

something kinda in that field of light.

50:08

And then So then there's

50:10

this investigation that could happen. But

50:12

to investigate that thing, you gotta get it

50:14

into a position where you can get

50:16

legitimate data on it. You can get you need real

50:18

info. Right? You could ask it, like, hey, why are you

50:20

doing that? But it might not be resonating the

50:22

truth at that moment. Right? Right? So that's when you

50:24

can go to your other guides. And you can ask

50:26

them or you can go to source right there and like,

50:28

what's this about? And you start to investigate and

50:30

ask some questions. But when the fear

50:32

kicks in, you can't

50:34

Because the mind has already been triggered into something

50:36

else. The fear mix is small. We

50:38

kinda get pulled away. So we have to kinda

50:40

drop that vibe. We gotta go back into

50:42

our breath. We gotta just

50:44

reground again, reset the space, and

50:46

then we just start investigating. Like,

50:48

if that thing came into my space, I would never

50:50

let it out of my space. I'd be

50:52

like, no. You got locked in that house.

50:54

I remember I had this I had this two hundred

50:56

and twenty pound great 389 aids when I was

50:58

in college. 389 he would let workers into the house, but he would not let him

51:00

out. It 389 also like the electrician would come

51:02

over. I'll come on in. Time for the

51:04

electrician to go, oh, no. No. No. You're not taking

51:06

your tools. 389. No.

51:08

No. You're not leaving. Right? 389, hey. If you've come in, now you

51:10

were gonna hang for a while. This thing might be

51:12

like, oh, no. It's coffee break time. I'm like, oh, no.

51:14

No. No. No. It's nothing. No. You're here

51:17

now. We're gonna hang out for a while. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna hang out and

51:19

I'm gonna get to know you and understand what you're doing. Maybe

51:21

you're gonna become an ally of mine. Yeah. You know, but

51:23

if you're gonna be an ally of mine, I want that

51:25

punch to land back You

51:27

know? We're

51:27

gonna have to work on that a little bit. You can't be swinging

51:29

and You

51:30

can't be swinging and miss. You're like

51:32

so Yeah. So

51:33

those are the things I mean, those are all different

51:35

techniques to use and And the point of the techniques

51:37

is, like, the more you have, the the more art

51:39

you get to apply. Right? Like, the more fun you

51:41

get to have

51:44

with it, The more you get to dance with it, the more creative you get to

51:46

be. And over the years, you

51:48

just learn more and more and

51:50

more if you want to, if you open up

51:52

to 389. Kind of the the

51:54

learning process makes you have to extend

51:56

more too. So there's times when we really

51:58

wanna 389, like, training. Mhmm. There are

52:00

times when I'm pretty good. You know, I don't really wanna learn as much.

52:02

So so over time, you learn,

52:04

like, ten, fifteen, twenty different techniques

52:06

for those situations. All of those that I

52:08

mentioned would

52:09

work. It's a

52:10

I love, like, I love hearing this

52:13

because I think it just sets

52:15

a framework for different ways to play. Because

52:17

even when even when that

52:19

happened, I was I had the feeling, like, I

52:21

just didn't have I didn't have my

52:24

multiple choice options

52:25

arranged. In the right way, I just had,

52:27

like, I had just a couple

52:30

options and so if I asked me because I was

52:32

like, there's a being here and I don't think it's

52:34

I don't think 389, I wasn't even

52:36

sure. Like, I don't think it's benevolent. It wouldn't

52:38

say that there's a 389 being because I

52:40

that would have been false. So I was like, I don't think

52:42

it's benevolent given by the fact that it

52:45

took a

52:46

swing. And then she 389 well,

52:48

what do you wanna do? And I'm like, I took a moment. And I was like, I

52:50

don't know. What do what

52:51

do I wanna do? But now, like, in

52:53

this framework, I

52:56

see there's like many options and almost like a a layer of options,

53:00

curiosities, you know, like ways in which I could keep

53:02

it there, try to

53:04

understand it. 389 even in so

53:06

afterwards, I 389 with Eric who's here in the

53:08

room from kind of like a dream interpretation

53:10

389. And

53:12

from a dream interpretation perspective, of

53:15

what this entity or thought form could have been trying

53:17

to represent is all of

53:19

the people who

53:23

online or in social media or in the

53:25

public forum, try to lobby an

53:28

insult at me that's

53:30

untrue that I notice it doesn't land 389 it doesn't

53:32

resonate with the truth, but I see it there.

53:34

But I also then am aware that

53:36

with the eyes that were turning red,

53:38

that those 389 insults

53:41

might not land to me, but they may land to other

53:43

people who are reading the comments section

53:45

or something like that.

53:48

And it could have been a representation

53:50

from that, from like an archetypal standpoint. And if

53:52

I would have had this kind of

53:56

framework that you talked about, maybe

53:58

that being could 389 actually taught me something

54:00

even more about

54:03

how to handle

54:04

that particular 389. If it did actually indeed represent

54:06

that or if it was potentially an

54:08

ally for that, like there could 389 been

54:12

a deeper exploration of how my own psyche and how

54:14

this entity was interacting with my psyche.

54:16

But again, as 389 said,

54:19

pre requisite is both the framework, the understanding of

54:22

knowledge, and the ability to not

54:24

get triggered into

54:24

fear, which then puts you into this

54:27

kind of fight or flight.

54:28

Mentality. Yeah. And

54:29

now now that you have a clear beat on

54:31

that energy, I think the thing to do

54:33

is go back in and

54:36

bring it into this

54:37

space again. Yeah. I still remember it very often. You just invoke it and you

54:39

bring it back and now you can

54:41

continue that exploration. 389 I

54:44

think it's really interesting to to mention the idea of, you know,

54:47

what the collective consciousness is around

54:49

a social media community. And

54:52

all the different people with all the different ideas. It's

54:54

no different than 389 a,

54:56

you know, 389 philosophical community.

54:59

Where people are praying up different

55:01

kinds of deities or demigods. You

55:03

have this idea of all these

55:05

people giving opinion, sharing in that

55:07

opinion, and creating an energy form around it. Mhmm.

55:09

Right? They're they're giving life to this this opinion

55:12

they've created or this mindset that

55:14

they've created. 389 I

55:16

think it's it's an interesting concept to explore that as well. I would

55:19

go in on that. I'm going to I'm gonna

55:21

I'm gonna go in on that and try

55:23

to understand that 389. Because I

55:25

think that's just fascinating to to think that a whole community,

55:27

including all the positive and negative opinions that come

55:29

through it, could actually

55:32

ultimately create.

55:34

Some kind of energy form that could then, you know, navigate

55:36

through the collective consciousness of that community

55:39

itself.

55:39

Yeah. I

55:42

think

55:42

that's 389 seems to

55:44

me like and I haven't thought of it that way,

55:46

but it seems like even

55:48

if we haven't named a deity,

55:50

thought structure. And I think they have the names of these. They're they're

55:52

called Agrigores. They did a podcast. Or at

55:55

least that's one name 389, like,

55:58

an aggregation of energy -- Mhmm. -- around a different thought concept

56:00

that actually then becomes

56:03

almost entity like

56:06

in its form, it desires to propagate itself,

56:08

etcetera. 389, you know, certain

56:10

ideas, they start to get

56:11

momentum, and they start to

56:14

you know, become an entity or a or a demigod. Mhmm.

56:17

And except

56:18

we don't recognize 389 it's such 389

56:20

we don't realize that there's a

56:23

bunch of people worshiping at the altar of this god

56:25

that they've created that may actually

56:27

act more like a

56:30

demon. That they've created or it may be a god. You

56:32

know, it just it just depends and depends on

56:34

how you define that and whether I would suppose

56:37

one would be helpful to the overall

56:40

evolution of humanity. One would actually be

56:42

undermining it. But then what's

56:44

your what's your time frame

56:46

to understand whether it's helpful or not

56:48

389. But but yeah, it's like we're all we're

56:50

worshiping in the alter of a variety of

56:52

different beings, entities, gods, all

56:55

the time. And I think we look back

56:57

at our history of all of

56:59

the, you know, polytheistic cultures. 389 like,

57:02

oh, superstitious

57:04

nonsense. 389 I remember you introduced me to Zeus,

57:06

and and he was he was real as

57:08

fuck. I mean, I

57:12

remember David Camo. It was it was real as fuck.

57:14

And why was it real as fuck? Well, because

57:16

partly because that's an it's a archetypal

57:18

energy, there's real also

57:20

because a bunch of people put a

57:22

lot of energy into worshiping and

57:24

believing that 389 to sure into

57:26

existence. But I think a lot of people

57:28

wanna think that For those things to be real, they had

57:31

to come from something other than

57:33

humans. And for me, humans

57:35

creating 389

57:37

makes

57:37

it real. So brand consciousness is no

57:40

different. To me, the modern polytheistic

57:42

religion is

57:44

brand consciousness. It's everybody

57:46

naming corporate brands and seeing the logos

57:48

in their heads. That to

57:50

me is a polytheistic religion around wealth

57:52

worship. It's the

57:54

same 389 concept just thousands of

57:57

years later morphed, but the biggest

57:59

one is always thinking Oh, that doesn't

58:01

exist. Right? Oh, oh, polytheism doesn't

58:03

exist. There's no there's no truth about that.

58:05

It's more like

58:08

389 think it's that simple, guys. I think we need to unpack it a little 389.

58:10

And maybe we can disprove that

58:12

all of those gods are the gods that are

58:15

controlling everything maybe around some of the

58:17

context of the mythology. But you can't say they

58:19

don't exist. They exist as refugees. They exist

58:21

as art. They exist as belief. They

58:23

exist as stories. They super exist. They've existed

58:25

for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

58:28

And a lot of the things that

58:30

today we

58:32

worship are gonna be around for the next thousands and thousands and thousands

58:34

of years as well. Where

58:36

what's the differentiation between a religion? Versus

58:40

a collective ideology that everyone adheres to and buys into,

58:42

but they don't wanna call it a religion

58:44

anymore. Well, I think there you're

58:48

parsing semantics. No. You're

58:49

kinda just, like, you know, pulling away some of the concepts, you know,

58:51

from it, but not really wanting to just say,

58:53

like, wow, I think we're we're

58:55

really more in a collective

58:57

field of ideology around it than actually

59:00

like a real science or

59:02

everyone having 389 a unique

59:04

autonomous opinion. I don't think that's happening

59:06

at all. And so And and

59:08

also, you know, would think about,

59:09

oh, they sacrificed, you know, lambs

59:11

at the altar of of Jupiter. Well, what

59:13

do you do when you cancel someone

59:15

on social media of ideas that you have around something.

59:17

Is that not a human sacrifice? At

59:20

least of part of the consciousness of

59:22

this human being, you know? Whether and I'm

59:24

not saying that you know, there's

59:26

not a place for actually people

59:28

rallying to actually bring awareness to

59:30

a brand or to an

59:31

idea, but like so many of

59:33

the parallels from the old things that we think are

59:35

superstitious bullshit is like we're actually carrying

59:38

that out

59:40

still now. For sure. And I think if

59:42

you look at what an individual

59:44

is today, you bring up counter cult cancel

59:46

culture, where does the big the

59:49

being beginning end. Where does the human begin end? You didn't just cancel

59:51

their content. You shut them

59:53

down. Yeah. You shut down an aspect

59:55

of their voice. You shut down

59:57

an aspect of their

1:00:00

consciousness. You know? So it's it's an

1:00:01

amputation. Right? It's, hey, we don't like

1:00:04

that. So let's just amputate that. Let's shut

1:00:06

that thing down. 389 that

1:00:08

that is part of that person and it's part

1:00:09

of what they're sharing and it's part of the community

1:00:11

that they they created around the

1:00:14

ideas that they were sharing And I

1:00:16

think that's, you know,

1:00:18

brings real question to the notion of

1:00:20

freedom of thought. Like, we

1:00:22

supposedly have freedom

1:00:24

of speech. But what is freedom of thought? And where do we

1:00:26

get our thoughts in the first place to be able

1:00:28

to understand the freedom or lack of

1:00:30

freedom we have about our very

1:00:32

own minds? We're using our mind all the time. Are we free to

1:00:34

actually question? If we're

1:00:36

already taking ideas and just throwing

1:00:38

them away and say, oh, that

1:00:40

can't be. 389 we're already saying, oh,

1:00:42

polytheistic religion 389 completely

1:00:44

bogus without going into it and understanding

1:00:46

it at

1:00:46

all. If now most people think religion

1:00:49

in general is

1:00:50

bogus, maybe some certain

1:00:52

beliefs about it are, but you can't say

1:00:54

that these controlling paradigms around

1:00:56

the world are

1:00:57

bogus. They might not be factual, but

1:00:59

they're unbelievably powerful wealthy, huge billion

1:01:02

people communities around the

1:01:03

world. That's a very real thing, guys. I think

1:01:05

we need to pay attention. Mhmm.

1:01:08

Do those things, not just discounted because we don't like the taste associated with

1:01:10

them anymore. They don't they don't fit well

1:01:12

on 389 my menu tonight, you know. Right.

1:01:15

Or I don't wanna go and participate. Right? But it doesn't mean

1:01:17

they don't exist. We need to open up our idea a

1:01:19

little bit more about what exists and what doesn't

1:01:22

really exist. 389 the context

1:01:24

associated with it? And what thoughts am

1:01:26

I really able to have about that

1:01:28

thing? If my response is a knee jerk

1:01:30

reaction, I'm being controlled by somebody

1:01:32

or something

1:01:33

else. And maybe I wanna know the agenda

1:01:35

why. Yeah. And this is, like, we see

1:01:37

this happen all the time. I'm sure you see it happen

1:01:39

all the time. I mean, people freeing their mind

1:01:41

to be able to think new thoughts and

1:01:43

deliberate themselves from all thoughts. We did a lot

1:01:45

of work with shame in

1:01:48

this last 389 for service

1:01:50

summit. And we always touch on this because

1:01:52

this is one of these anti life energies

1:01:54

that constricts the freedom of mind.

1:01:56

And we always have those people who grew

1:01:58

up in strictly religious household of any

1:02:00

variety of different flavors, as many

1:02:02

flavors that repress

1:02:04

their natural

1:02:06

actual impulses in particular, you know, like desire to

1:02:08

masturbate or their desire to, you know,

1:02:10

be with their girlfriend or boyfriend

1:02:14

and then sexually intimate way and and the feelings that are around

1:02:16

that. And and they're

1:02:18

just moving

1:02:20

into the freedom

1:02:22

and the celebration of, like, oh my

1:02:24

god. It's okay. And I'm not I'm

1:02:26

not broken, and I'm not full of

1:02:28

sin, and I'm 389. And so

1:02:31

389 just one concrete example of

1:02:33

how these prison cells can

1:02:35

be put around our actual thoughts themselves

1:02:37

so that we cannot even link to

1:02:39

the erotic

1:02:40

389. Without also

1:02:42

this thought of shame kind of hijacking

1:02:44

that same thought and 389

1:02:46

it in this kind of

1:02:49

ochre poison that doesn't

1:02:50

allow us to actually think freely. Just

1:02:53

where's our

1:02:56

freedom?

1:02:57

Freedom of sexuality. What's wrong with

1:02:59

that? Literally nothing. 389

1:03:02

nothing wrong with it.

1:03:04

The shame

1:03:05

society

1:03:05

is 389 think unbelievably

1:03:08

controlling and powerful in its nature because

1:03:10

all it has to do is get you in

1:03:12

your head to flip the little

1:03:14

circuit breaker back

1:03:15

on yourself. And not think, wait,

1:03:17

that's not even my shame. That was all their

1:03:19

shame. They taught me that shame. I

1:03:22

wasn't born with that shame. Mhmm.

1:03:24

We're all born touching

1:03:26

ourselves. I don't

1:03:28

know like going. Hands are just going.

1:03:30

And to check it out the whole thing. Yeah. It's a shame. Like,

1:03:33

so where does that actually even come from? I think it's it's

1:03:35

worth an

1:03:35

exploration, especially if you

1:03:38

experience it. I remember that

1:03:40

growing up. 389

1:03:41

where the mind starts to kick in and wants to

1:03:44

override pleasure, where the

1:03:46

mind starts to kick in and wants to

1:03:48

override impulse. It wants to kick

1:03:50

in and override just a desire to approach somebody or even talk to them.

1:03:52

But ultimately, that's just unbelievably screwed

1:03:55

up.

1:03:56

389 just unbelievably screwed up. Just that alone. Yeah. Like, you can

1:03:59

just stop right there and say, okay, I think right there

1:04:01

is where we bring some healing. 389

1:04:04

there, we bring some openness. Right there, we start to work with that. And all

1:04:06

we have to do is get the mind to learn

1:04:08

it doesn't need to do that move anymore. We

1:04:11

were taught that. We're 389 that move to where we we

1:04:13

flip back on ourselves and it we become

1:04:16

introspective and we become

1:04:18

internally

1:04:19

389 over it. And, you

1:04:21

know, I don't think it's serving literally any of us anymore. I think of

1:04:23

that as like old

1:04:24

code. I now call that stuff old code.

1:04:26

389 old code on your

1:04:29

phone makes your phone run

1:04:30

bad. Old code on your computer makes it

1:04:32

run bad. I just think we need to rewrite that

1:04:34

code with something new. Yeah. A whole

1:04:37

new story. And it's time to transition from an old story

1:04:39

in its entirety with all of the

1:04:41

different ways that your story weaves into that

1:04:43

story and strengthens it with the

1:04:45

strand of your string in the braid of the old

1:04:47

story. And it's it's not only just weaving a new

1:04:50

string in, we really actually need a

1:04:52

new braid. You know, that's

1:04:54

actually weaving a whole new story

1:04:56

that we can move in. It's

1:04:58

actually a leap from one story to

1:05:00

a whole other story. And and there

1:05:02

will be bridges. You'll we'll be able to

1:05:04

bridge some of that and and we're bridging

1:05:06

in the time

1:05:08

between stories. 389 yeah, it feels to me like that's the go time that

1:05:10

we were referencing at the start.

1:05:12

The go time is like it's time to build

1:05:14

that new

1:05:16

story. And in the process of that, everything that's been supported by

1:05:18

the old story is going to

1:05:20

start to crumble. And as it crumbles,

1:05:22

389 as with any

1:05:25

entity structure that's in

1:05:28

danger. It's gonna freak out. You know, it's

1:05:30

gonna lash out it's gonna and think

1:05:32

we've started to see some of that. These control

1:05:34

structures start to get like

1:05:36

spasmy -- Mhmm. -- in there in

1:05:38

these kind of like death throes

1:05:41

that you can kind of

1:05:43

see where they're starting to lose

1:05:45

the control that they've enjoyed for thousands

1:05:47

of years in different forms. Empire

1:05:50

in control for thousands of years. As

1:05:52

people become more sovereign, more free of thought,

1:05:54

more free of

1:05:54

heart, more free of, you know, consciousness.

1:05:58

Has to happen. I don't think the earth stops evolving ever.

1:06:01

And once humans started to create

1:06:03

in our own evolution,

1:06:06

aspects of the matrix that became permanent, you by

1:06:09

doing so naturally create a scenario where there

1:06:11

will be a cycle of evolution

1:06:13

associated with that. So

1:06:15

maybe those structures worked really well to get us

1:06:18

389, like, one million

1:06:20

humans or two million humans to eight billion

1:06:22

humans. Yeah. But it doesn't work well

1:06:24

to go from eight billion humans to sixteen billion

1:06:26

humans. Yeah. It doesn't work well

1:06:28

to build 389 the

1:06:31

actual physical infrastructure. It doesn't work well

1:06:33

to increase the amount of protein need by something I think it's six

1:06:36

hundred to to

1:06:38

a billion

1:06:40

Six hundred million. Yeah. No. It's six hundred

1:06:42

million to a billion metric tons a year more

1:06:46

protein. Has to be

1:06:48

created. Like 389 in so for

1:06:49

389 food production, it doesn't work well when you

1:06:52

start thinking of financial

1:06:54

systems that that boom and bust and crumble underneath each

1:06:56

other. Mhmm. Like, these things have to

1:06:58

ultimately evolve into something else. And

1:07:00

they're going to. Like, the people that think they can hold

1:07:02

on to

1:07:04

that forever are are wishing for a legacy that

1:07:06

includes them not aging, that

1:07:08

includes them not having to actually face

1:07:10

life

1:07:10

itself. 389 includes

1:07:12

you know, an idea that they can somehow

1:07:16

maintain

1:07:16

and sustain only one way of

1:07:18

life forever. And that's never gonna happen here of Earth.

1:07:21

Earth evolves way too fast. Mhmm. When I

1:07:23

first heard of Evolution, I read it

1:07:25

through, you know, Darwin's books

1:07:27

and concepts were there, and I tried to grasp

1:07:29

it, and it seemed like it was a very slow

1:07:31

process the way it was described. Right?

1:07:33

Sort of 389 those, like,

1:07:35

the science TV shows

1:07:38

from, you know, thirty years ago

1:07:40

where everything is slowly

1:07:42

described. And I came to realize, actually,

1:07:45

Earth is evolving at the speed of

1:07:47

light. So

1:07:47

everybody watch out. Like,

1:07:49

watch out.

1:07:50

If you 389 see how fast Earth evolves, think about

1:07:52

how fast

1:07:53

COVID evolved. Think about how we went from one concept to two to four to six

1:07:56

389 eight, like in less than a year.

1:07:58

Yeah. Like it just boom boom boom boom. The code

1:08:00

of this place is changing. It's genetic code.

1:08:03

It's molecular code, it's cellular code. This place

1:08:06

is changing so fast.

1:08:08

We're changing with it, but we don't like it, so

1:08:10

we tell this much

1:08:12

slower story. We count ourselves in years, we

1:08:14

ourselves this long life. You're changing

1:08:16

just as

1:08:19

fast. And it's happening on a cellular replicating

1:08:22

model inside We

1:08:24

just don't see it that

1:08:26

way. But it's happening all the time. So these social structures that

1:08:28

we've created that have imprisoned us really

1:08:31

mostly in our mind more

1:08:34

than anything, are going to 389. How they evolve?

1:08:36

Well, I think that's ultimately up to

1:08:38

us because we created them.

1:08:39

Yeah. And it's

1:08:42

no coincidence that this acceleration

1:08:44

is partly due to the

1:08:47

use of accelerants, you know, which

1:08:49

are the plant medicines that, you

1:08:51

know, we've been talking about

1:08:53

it. It certainly seems like things are

1:08:56

evolving faster than they ever have before, especially

1:08:58

on a consciousness level. And and also on

1:09:01

social, you know, social structure level for sure. There she

1:09:03

is. She all or or Kitty always wants to get

1:09:05

some attention on a

1:09:06

podcast. That's her favorite time.

1:09:09

389 these

1:09:12

accelerants then are accelerating things even more.

1:09:14

And it feels like just at the

1:09:16

right time 389 that all of these

1:09:19

things are coming online from both,

1:09:21

you know, public awareness. I mean, we were laughing down there before about I

1:09:23

mean, who would have thought when we were working together ten years

1:09:25

ago that we would see

1:09:27

an Iowa Oscar

1:09:29

389 celebration from the on

1:09:31

the Green Bay Packers end zone, you know.

1:09:33

And and

1:09:34

a player writing in his caption Islands 389

1:09:38

in the caption saying 389 Lambo

1:09:40

teaches hits different. Yeah. You know, like,

1:09:42

we would have never expected that, but

1:09:44

that's just like a part of the

1:09:47

culture that's evolving 389 I'm honored to

1:09:49

be a part of that culture because I

1:09:51

think it's, to me,

1:09:53

and I've had this, you know, 389 I

1:09:56

kind of talk to different people who have their disparaging views of

1:09:58

it, you know, I 389 just my own life as an

1:10:00

example. Like

1:10:03

the the truth, beauty, goodness, love,

1:10:06

joy, you know, excitement,

1:10:08

exploration 389 it's

1:10:11

brought into my life. Alone, just

1:10:13

not only what I've experienced, but what it's done to

1:10:15

my own life. I mean, what a fucking gift

1:10:18

that we have available to

1:10:20

us. And it's not for everybody.

1:10:22

It doesn't mean everybody needs to go that path. But to start to just recognize these

1:10:25

accelerants, these tools,

1:10:28

it's just what

1:10:30

deep gifts we have to find our way out of all of these strange cold to sack dead

1:10:32

end

1:10:32

stories. And also, if we're not

1:10:34

careful, put us in some other

1:10:39

dead end scary, you know, stories that are difficult

1:10:41

to come out 389. You know? They're 389

1:10:44

to

1:10:45

work through. You

1:10:47

know? The plants are a gift. The sacred plants, the visionary plants,

1:10:49

psychedelic plants that go by a number of

1:10:51

different names, they're fundamentally

1:10:53

a gift.

1:10:54

When you take them, you realize

1:10:56

they're of nature and so are

1:10:58

you. And then there's this recognition

1:11:01

that this goes

1:11:02

way back. This goes way back to the origins of humans. And

1:11:04

we typically don't think in our

1:11:06

daily life about that. But there's a

1:11:08

connection that goes at least a million

1:11:11

years back with these 389. And

1:11:13

they were part and parcel of how

1:11:15

consciousness became what is ultimately the positives and the traps 389 the

1:11:19

negatives of today. They've been there. There's there has

1:11:21

to be a way to understand why we have all the receptors in our brains for all of

1:11:23

the chemicals that

1:11:26

are found within all the plants. And it has to be because we coevolved. Yeah. It

1:11:28

has to be because we were ingesting those plants in

1:11:30

different places around the world and sharing genetic

1:11:35

material to make it all possible and lo and behold, we have all the circuit

1:11:37

breakers and all the plugs in our brain for all

1:11:39

of these different plants and all

1:11:41

of these different chemicals. When you isolate the chemicals by

1:11:44

themselves, you can create a

1:11:46

narrative that separates it from

1:11:48

nature. And then you can create a

1:11:50

drug narrative, you can create negative narrative, etcetera. But when you

1:11:52

just leave it in nature itself, it's

1:11:54

just there. And it's not that the

1:11:56

the plants do it to you.

1:11:58

I tell everybody this on every

1:12:00

389. The plants are doing just

1:12:02

fine out there. The mushrooms are doing

1:12:04

just fine

1:12:05

out there. Someone came along. Some human came

1:12:07

along. Actually harvested them. Did

1:12:10

something

1:12:10

with them, prepared them, and then ingested them. So I really think it's more fair to say we did it to them, not did

1:12:12

it to us. Mhmm. Once

1:12:14

we ingested them, something happens. 389

1:12:19

to me is like a mutual exchange that starts to take

1:12:21

place. They get an opportunity to check-in and

1:12:23

see what human is today. And we

1:12:25

get an opportunity to expand on

1:12:27

what human is. And I

1:12:29

think what the the real

1:12:31

gift is is the ability to transform, accelerate our

1:12:35

growth and development, 389 our consciousness,

1:12:38

awaken our consciousness, develop our consciousness all at the same time

1:12:40

through the journey that

1:12:43

we get taken on with

1:12:45

the plants themselves. Mhmm. And so there's this arc that that we go

1:12:47

through. The onset, there's always a story about the

1:12:50

onset for somebody that just had a really

1:12:52

tough one.

1:12:55

Right? Some people just go in super easy breezy

1:12:57

and lucky for them. Right?

1:13:00

But on-site can be

1:13:02

really tough. And then there's the like, you talked

1:13:04

about in the sweat, the where the

1:13:06

mind is 389. Right? It's fighting its

1:13:08

own state. And what I've come to realize

1:13:10

is as the the the state of consciousness

1:13:13

in the brain changes and the chemicals

1:13:15

in the brain change, you

1:13:17

start thinking differently. And as you start

1:13:19

thinking differently, those are all the thoughts that come

1:13:21

up. That's it. It's just like, well, I'm thinking

1:13:23

differently, and so now I'm having all these different thoughts.

1:13:25

If I go into doubt, then I get a bunch

1:13:28

of doubt. Thoughts. If I create fear, I get a

1:13:30

bunch of fear thoughts. From a mixed out in fear and a little anxiety with some tossing some, you know, a

1:13:34

tough bit of of adrenaline at the same time. It's gonna feel like

1:13:36

speed. Right? It's gonna feel like, oh,

1:13:39

what just happened? Then then

1:13:42

this incredible opening happens. And

1:13:44

that's when the visions really kick off. That's when the brain actually

1:13:46

starts to calm down and the body starts to calm down and goes into the trance, it

1:13:50

goes into the experience. And

1:13:52

then those visions start to be enlightening

1:13:54

for us. They show us stuff about ourselves. We see ourselves in that infinite mind

1:13:57

389 of mirrors. We

1:14:00

see ourselves in the space

1:14:02

where we have all of our imagination, our imagination becomes real to us. It's not just something

1:14:05

that's happening 389

1:14:08

something that is spontaneous. It actually

1:14:10

becomes completely real for us. And then there's this exchange with the universe, exchange with nature,

1:14:13

and exchange with

1:14:16

the plants. That becomes incredibly teaching.

1:14:18

Yeah. And that teaching part I think is what's really unbelievable because

1:14:23

it's direct learning. And you can go in feeling

1:14:26

one way and understanding one thing, and you can come out of it smarter, better,

1:14:28

389 know,

1:14:31

stronger, clearer. You can also come out of it understanding like, wow, I'm gonna

1:14:33

need to integrate that. I'm gonna need to work

1:14:35

with that for

1:14:37

a period of time. If you gave that that month, two months,

1:14:40

three months to do that, you had

1:14:42

come out of it stronger, ultimately clear,

1:14:44

better, healed 389 you set those

1:14:46

intentions and use them in that way.

1:14:48

That's what I think is just such a

1:14:50

gift. Nature has always been here to help us when we've needed nature. And nature 389 here

1:14:53

to help us again, and we

1:14:55

need nature now. So

1:14:58

I think it is a truly a

1:15:00

symbiotic time where nature and humans are gonna come

1:15:02

back together to do something about our nature now.

1:15:04

389. And I think

1:15:07

the reason why we've become such a predator

1:15:09

of Earth itself is because that

1:15:11

fundamentally is our nature. We are the

1:15:13

389 because people don't like to admit

1:15:16

it anymore. Sort 389 like a bad word, like religion

1:15:18

or god or sin or something like that. It's like something people don't wanna talk about or sex

1:15:20

or whatever. Right? Those

1:15:22

389 like, oh, bad words. Well,

1:15:24

we're the Apex Predator of this planet, and now

1:15:26

we've predated on the entirety of the planet. So it's like everybody wake 389,

1:15:29

wake up to the

1:15:31

predator that's inside you, You

1:15:33

gotta deal with it.

1:15:35

Yeah. You gotta learn how to deal with that energy. Call it shadow. Call

1:15:35

it whatever you want. You

1:15:40

forage. You pick things, they die,

1:15:42

you eat them, we gotta learn to deal with this. It could be a vegetable, it could be meat, it could be whatever.

1:15:44

We gotta learn to actually deal

1:15:46

with this in a very real

1:15:48

way. And

1:15:50

the plants are there to be able to help us now, and that's what

1:15:52

will allow us as a global civilization to

1:15:54

take it to the next level.

1:15:57

Howard Bauchner: And there's when you're connected, there's

1:15:59

kind of and you see it in natural ecosystems where there's

1:16:01

such a connection to the field

1:16:04

that they

1:16:07

don't over predate or there's these 389 checks and balances

1:16:09

389 we've become so apex that we've

1:16:11

been able to override kind

1:16:14

of the the natural order of things. Like, the

1:16:16

natural way that things were kept in balance.

1:16:18

Like, we have the ability to 389 our

1:16:22

world out of fucking 389. And

1:16:25

that's why we have to really

1:16:27

become aware of this. And that's

1:16:30

and it's important. It's important to find, you know, find that place within our self. Take a good look. Like, face

1:16:32

to face. You know, and that was another

1:16:34

one of my deep prayers. It's just to

1:16:36

look. Face

1:16:39

to face at every aspect of the totality of self,

1:16:41

the totality of and in doing

1:16:44

so, you see

1:16:46

the totality of the collective as well. If you look deeply enough in yourself,

1:16:48

you'll see all of it. And you

1:16:50

have to look at that without flinching

1:16:52

in order to actually be

1:16:54

able to operate in

1:16:56

it. And some of Souther stuff

1:16:58

is gonna, you know, it's always gonna be there. Like, it's

1:17:01

389 desire

1:17:04

to

1:17:04

have some kind of conflict. It's just

1:17:06

it's

1:17:07

in us. You know, look at

1:17:09

all the video games

1:17:11

we create. Right? Like, there's conflict built into

1:17:13

the stories we like, all the stories we like on TV and

1:17:15

in movies, the video

1:17:19

games we create, and that can even be

1:17:21

recreated in our in our ceremonies as well. And, you know, I have to

1:17:23

be aware too that, like, so we had

1:17:26

a little ecstatic dance where you dress up

1:17:28

389 shadow,

1:17:30

you know, and just for fun, like

1:17:32

express some part of yourself. And,

1:17:34

you know, I put on a

1:17:37

furry leather hat with a big tail on it,

1:17:39

you know, and I was kind of embody and I had a, you know, a fake fur. I was on this like a

1:17:41

fake wolf fur, you

1:17:43

know, spirit hood. 389

1:17:46

I was like, I'm going as gangis con today.

1:17:49

You 389? And that because there

1:17:51

is a little gangis con in me. I

1:17:53

was obsessed with him when I 389, like,

1:17:55

ten years old he did horrible 389, you

1:17:57

know, horrible shit, but there was some part of me that liked that

1:17:59

the idea of the the, you know,

1:18:01

the ride, the call of

1:18:03

a thousand horses you know,

1:18:05

who could ride through, who is the the badest of the bad on the on the horse. And and I play that out on volleyball

1:18:08

court or on

1:18:11

the basketball court. 389 it's

1:18:14

just about how do we do this in a

1:18:16

good way, in a healthy way, not getting

1:18:18

lost in our desire to do it, but

1:18:21

just express it in a higher octave.

1:18:23

And one thing you always said

1:18:25

that separates what can be good

1:18:27

and beneficial and and valuable

1:18:29

to the other side, which is actually the real actual dark side,

1:18:32

is does it

1:18:34

have a giggle in

1:18:36

it? Like and that was

1:18:38

I always remember you saying that. It's like, does it have a giggle in it? You know, like, is there a place where

1:18:42

you stop and just

1:18:45

you know, in the heat of battle on

1:18:47

the court, like something and you just kinda fucking laugh. or sexuality if you're

1:18:49

playing out a power

1:18:51

exchange role, like, Is

1:18:54

there a place where you just you you

1:18:56

just can stop and laugh and understand

1:18:58

and see yourself in honesty 389 know,

1:19:00

like, we're playing a fun game here.

1:19:02

And and that's I think where we

1:19:05

need to get to where exercise

1:19:07

these aspects ourselves, but do it

1:19:09

in a game. Allow myself to be 389 is

1:19:11

gone in an ecstatic dance and

1:19:13

then just be absolutely

1:19:16

generous, gracious, you know,

1:19:18

person of the best service

1:19:20

that I can in real 389, but allow

1:19:22

myself in that moment to snarl and how 389

1:19:24

the how let the moon and feel

1:19:26

what that feels like. And do it in a dance in this kind of 389. And

1:19:28

then put the put the hat away,

1:19:30

you know, put the coat back on

1:19:32

389

1:19:32

shelf, and then just go about just

1:19:35

389 of bouncing around life.

1:19:37

We gotta deal with every aspect

1:19:39

of ourselves.

1:19:41

We have to

1:19:44

open up

1:19:45

to everything that drives us. We have to make friends with it.

1:19:47

We have to understand it. We have to

1:19:49

understand our ancestors and

1:19:51

what drove them. Where

1:19:54

they are

1:19:54

in our stories and their mythologies, how we relate to that and what we need. If we're

1:19:56

just peaceful and the rest of the world

1:19:58

is

1:19:58

gonna be worrying, we're gonna get 389.

1:20:03

All the peaceful societies have been slaughtered by

1:20:06

other societies that weren't peaceful.

1:20:08

It was too easy just to pick up

1:20:10

a rock and then a bigger rock and

1:20:12

then technology on technology

1:20:14

to create a war machine so vast that it could just perfect slaughtering each other.

1:20:16

389 is too

1:20:19

simple for that. We have to

1:20:21

find within ourselves a way to ultimately deal with every single aspect of what's inside

1:20:23

us and what our

1:20:26

motivations are, and then learn

1:20:30

to actually mature with that,

1:20:32

not just have to act them out in

1:20:34

a in a like a 389 or a

1:20:36

total way. 389 what the giggles about.

1:20:39

Right? The giggles about realizing that

1:20:41

there's a crack in the in

1:20:43

in the darkness or in the

1:20:45

the dominance that says, hey, there's something else going on here.

1:20:47

Ultimately, it leads

1:20:51

back to source. Where you wanna 389, hey, Souther,

1:20:54

can you dominate yourself? You're all powerful. No. You can't. You

1:20:56

can't loop back around on yourself and

1:20:58

dominate

1:20:58

yourself, source. Like, give it up.

1:21:01

389. Like, we gotta stop the

1:21:04

demigod 389 at some point

1:21:06

when it becomes detrimental to

1:21:08

absolutely everything.

1:21:09

Right. So

1:21:10

when that comes, I don't think we're quite there yet because now we're playing biggest

1:21:12

level, strongest level

1:21:15

ever in history. 389

1:21:18

they're 389, you know, they're tightening

1:21:20

the rope. When the rope will snap, I

1:21:22

don't know. And what will come from it

1:21:24

though is 389, I think the transformation

1:21:26

that we're talking

1:21:27

about. Yeah. What about, you know, for you, you spent, I

1:21:32

don't know, couple decades in the jungle, and there was

1:21:34

a you were going to battle, and we've told some of these battle stories.

1:21:38

389. Right? And

1:21:40

so and you're you're really like

1:21:42

a lot of your work even then was about transcending the field

1:21:46

of battle itself. to world back 389. I

1:21:48

don't know what you call it now, but you

1:21:50

transcend actually the place where you're in

1:21:53

contest with these other

1:21:55

entities or energies Yep. But

1:21:58

389 a old warrior, like yourself, you know. And I don't mean old in that

1:22:00

year old or something like that. But like like

1:22:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 389. But like a vetch

1:22:07

a veteran of veteran

1:22:07

war. There has to be some party that maybe every once in a

1:22:09

while. It's like, it's been a while since I

1:22:12

had

1:22:13

a good fight. You know what? I got all of

1:22:15

these I got all these I got all of these alleys. I got 389

1:22:17

the polar bear. I got all of these I

1:22:20

got all

1:22:22

of these homies up here. And they like a good fight and I a good fight.

1:22:24

Do you ever like do you ever miss just

1:22:26

going in there and fucking shit up?

1:22:32

Not really. Not in that sense. Not in that

1:22:34

sense. There was, you know, during that 389,

1:22:37

that was life

1:22:40

and

1:22:40

death. And it's not a

1:22:42

game when it's

1:22:43

life and death. Right? It's war when it's life and death. It's not just a fight. 389,

1:22:45

you

1:22:48

could die. And you

1:22:50

know it. And fundamentally, that makes something so real that

1:22:57

that it transcends that concept of just a

1:22:59

battle. Like, you realize you may end up on

1:23:03

the battlefield dead. At that moment.

1:23:05

Mhmm.

1:23:06

I think there's a party that always knows you have those

1:23:08

skills, and you

1:23:11

can respect those skills.

1:23:13

And there's a place for those

1:23:15

skills. there's a to use skills. So I you know,

1:23:20

there's still

1:23:22

power within them and 389 still there's

1:23:24

still vibe. Mhmm. Right? But I don't

1:23:26

wanna use them with people. Mhmm. I just

1:23:28

don't have any interest in using them

1:23:30

with people. But going and playing that out in a spiral galaxy? Going and

1:23:33

doing that with a bunch of

1:23:35

389. Yeah. Like, it's interesting. It's

1:23:37

interesting that the forces that

1:23:39

are at 389. The

1:23:41

the nature of the predation on Earth is about life itself. And life is a precious gift.

1:23:43

It's not just 389. It's actually

1:23:45

the life. 389, it's cellular

1:23:48

matrix. It's the

1:23:51

self ordering matter of earth itself that

1:23:53

becomes

1:23:54

life. It's a transcendence of

1:23:58

us being different races and us being

1:24:00

different creates, different religions, and different nationalities

1:24:02

389 realizing that we're all humans 389 all

1:24:05

from the same species or we're all

1:24:07

part of the same collective group. And at some point, we don't need to

1:24:09

harm each other to be able

1:24:11

to 389 be good

1:24:14

or to be able

1:24:16

to you know, fully express

1:24:18

ourselves. Right. There are other ways to be able to do that. So I think that ultimately that

1:24:21

flex, you know,

1:24:24

that 389 you're talking about 389 there

1:24:26

it just can be expressed in other ways. I don't think it ever goes away. Mhmm. You know? And then,

1:24:28

of course, if there

1:24:31

ever is a situation, where there

1:24:33

is an antagonist that really comes at you like that. It's good to know you got the skills.

1:24:35

Yeah. Yeah. Right. You don't wanna be on the other side of that

1:24:38

until

1:24:39

it's all

1:24:40

gone. Yeah. Right?

1:24:41

Until it's all gone, you 389 have those skills. You have

1:24:43

to. Like, I wouldn't go into any ceremony without

1:24:46

having those skills. Right? And if I didn't have them at the level that I have them, I

1:24:49

would still train them. Yeah. Right?

1:24:50

But they also don't,

1:24:54

like, get rusty. You just you just have them. You know?

1:24:56

Yeah. They're there. They're there.

1:24:58

They're they're very well

1:24:59

trained. Right? I

1:25:02

think

1:25:03

the next

1:25:05

evolution of it,

1:25:07

although,

1:25:07

is about transcending

1:25:10

the polarity within the visions where you need to use those because other people

1:25:15

have antagonistic consciousness. Right?

1:25:17

Can

1:25:18

we deal

1:25:18

with antagonistic consciousness in another way? You know, you 389 medicine world. Medicine world

1:25:21

a

1:25:21

way to be able to do that.

1:25:23

But in medicine world, if

1:25:26

there was antagonistic consciousness coming to

1:25:28

us, we still took it down. It

1:25:29

just couldn't hit us, but it's just like it

1:25:32

389 not gonna hit us. Right? Like, there's

1:25:34

just no way no way to harm us anymore. The goal is just get

1:25:36

out of the harm, but it wasn't,

1:25:38

you know, it wasn't to to be

1:25:43

passive and allow harming others in their consciousness

1:25:45

and harming others in their practices to continue

1:25:47

that. We just shut it down. You know?

1:25:49

I think there's still a part of that

1:25:51

because they're much of it going on,

1:25:54

maybe more now than ever, that there is still a need to regulate in terms of

1:25:58

the the 389 and the people that are involved in it and way that it's

1:26:00

actually taking place. But for us as

1:26:03

a collective to ultimately

1:26:05

get to the next level, we have to see beyond the polarity of

1:26:08

each other. Howard

1:26:09

Bauchner: It's interesting because

1:26:12

I think,

1:26:14

like, I can understand this from, you

1:26:16

know, of, like, a physical

1:26:18

reality in which I, you know, hopefully,

1:26:20

I'm gonna have a son and

1:26:22

hopefully a daughter. That's my that's my prayer that

1:26:24

I'm gonna have one of one of both. And I

1:26:26

think probably a lot of people have that

1:26:28

prayer. Some people get it

1:26:31

answered, some people don't. And I would, of

1:26:33

course, 389 actually train both of them in some basic

1:26:35

levels of martial arts and also how to use

1:26:37

the tools of our time to

1:26:39

actually protect themselves. In

1:26:42

case they needed it. But never would want them to actually use that in a way that would be bullying

1:26:44

or be a way

1:26:47

that would hurt anybody. 389 you

1:26:51

389 train that warrior, that kind of warrior

1:26:53

spirit. It's not just that, of course, if you

1:26:55

can if you can get out of a

1:26:57

situation, that's the best way to do it, but sometimes you can't get

1:26:59

out of a situation. Like, for example, when those four

1:27:01

guys were around my car and one of

1:27:03

them took Caitlin's

1:27:06

head and smashed it into the side of

1:27:08

the window of the

1:27:09

car, like, there was no, like, running

1:27:12

away. It was, like, 389. You

1:27:14

ball your fist and and you go and you fight until you're you're dead

1:27:16

or or you protect

1:27:19

that which you love. 389

1:27:23

there's and there is a situation where all of my sparring and

1:27:25

training, which was all fun and all

1:27:28

enjoyable. All of a

1:27:30

sudden, it just clicked into something really real that was

1:27:32

just 389 for death and that

1:27:34

training

1:27:34

came. Mhmm. And I think

1:27:36

one of the things that I see

1:27:38

in kind of the modern psychedelic context

1:27:42

is it's 389, for

1:27:45

the most part, based

1:27:47

on, you know, avoidance and fear and

1:27:49

almost and it feels like there's a

1:27:51

space for potentially a bit of

1:27:53

that warrior training to come in,

1:27:55

which is yes. Protect

1:27:57

yourself. Yes. Set the space. Yes. You know, avoid conflict of what it's

1:28:00

unnecessary. But

1:28:04

I've at least enjoyed using the same kind of mindset of

1:28:06

like, look, I'm not trying to pick a fight and I'll avoid

1:28:11

a fight. Every time I can, but sometimes if I can avoid a

1:28:13

fight, I wanna know that I can I wanna

1:28:15

know that I can fight?

1:28:19

And I don't think that's someone that's something that a lot of

1:28:21

people talk about 389 is, like,

1:28:23

actually training, like, kinda

1:28:26

like the warrior ethos of, like, an

1:28:29

astral traveler in 389 a good way. You know

1:28:31

what I mean? And it's it's something

1:28:33

that I think our conversation.

1:28:35

I remember I you know, I

1:28:37

called you, I guess, I don't know, maybe nine months ago or something like that. And I had a very specific

1:28:40

thing where

1:28:43

I felt like

1:28:44

something arose in an Ayahuasca ceremony, and

1:28:46

I've talked about, like, this forced 389. And

1:28:50

there's this awareness

1:28:52

that I may need to actually

1:28:54

go into my training a bit more. And that actually is what drove me into my

1:28:56

cinema 389 Diata, which was I

1:28:58

was guided into doing. And then

1:29:01

gave me what is my strongest move. You know, like we all have our strong move, whether we're

1:29:03

stand up, maybe it's our

1:29:06

overhand 389, or maybe

1:29:08

it's whatever it

1:29:10

is. If it's jujitsu, maybe it's our double leg. And then, you know, we we have our strongest move that can

1:29:13

pull that

1:29:16

will work for the most part

1:29:18

unless you're with something that's really gnarly or you find someone who's really well trained or an entity or

1:29:20

something. 389 III

1:29:25

just kinda feel like there's this this overall a bit of like,

1:29:27

it's a bit too soft in

1:29:30

a way, the way that people

1:29:32

are kind of exploring and to

1:29:34

actually have a more robust and holistic understanding like a little bit

1:29:37

of warrior training

1:29:39

might be helpful. I

1:29:41

don't know. What do you think about that? Like like,

1:29:43

little of than bit.

1:29:45

Yeah. Maybe

1:29:48

a lot.

1:29:48

389 don't know. I

1:29:50

don't know. This like soft thing, you know, I've been hearing this in the space as I've been like, you know,

1:29:52

more more I've been I've

1:29:55

kind of

1:29:55

been, you know,

1:29:58

on the electric grid, but off grid of of kinda everything

1:30:00

that's been going on in the last couple years.

1:30:02

And I've just started, you know, kinda networking

1:30:04

again and talking to people about what's

1:30:07

going on. And there's this this vibe I'm

1:30:09

coming across about the softness, but I never got it from anybody. So

1:30:11

I don't even know what anyone's talking

1:30:15

about. I need to sit in some other circles and even understand 389

1:30:17

I was not given anything

1:30:19

soft. Right? They were like, to

1:30:21

survive this journey, you have to

1:30:23

learn these skills. Period. So

1:30:26

you're gonna learn these skills. And part of it is medicine skills and part of it

1:30:31

is warrior skills. And part of its

1:30:34

outright war Warring Skills. So you're gonna learn all these different skills. And if someday

1:30:38

you need them, they're gonna be available to you. Mhmm. that someday was

1:30:41

day one. That was literally

1:30:43

the first day. So 389 like

1:30:46

it wasn't like, hey, maybe someday,

1:30:48

like, you know, ceremony a hundred.

1:30:50

I might need this. It was like it was like the first ninety five out of a hundred ceremonies were, you

1:30:52

know, in that

1:30:55