0:00

Struggling with out-of-stocks, phantom

0:02

inventory or lack-of-shelf data,

0:04

which tracks his signal-based

0:06

merchandising is designed to

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give you real-time visibility

0:11

into what's happening in stores and

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on shelves. So you can take

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action when and where it matters

0:18

most. Visit tracks. That's T-R-A-X-retail.com slash-y

0:20

marketer to get started today. Hey

0:26

gang, it's Monday, March 17th. Paul Daniel,

0:28

listeners, welcome to Behind The Numbers,

0:30

an e-marketer video podcast made possible

0:32

by Tracks, I'm Marcus. And today

0:35

we'll be discussing the next wave

0:37

to hit the streaming world, and

0:39

for that conversation, I'm joined by

0:41

vice president of all things based

0:43

in Maine. You're not the vice

0:45

president of all things based in

0:47

Maine. That's where he lives. There's

0:49

a commonness sentence, is that right?

0:51

The mayor of Maine, Paul Werner.

0:53

Paul Werner. Great to be here.

0:55

Happy St. Patrick's Day to those

0:57

who celebrate and to those who

1:00

don't. Probably no harm in going

1:02

along for the ride, but no

1:04

judgment. Stop putting green stuff in

1:06

the river. Low okay, Chicago, what

1:08

are we doing? Senior editor, based

1:10

in New York, Daniel Constantinople. Hello,

1:12

happy to be here. No strong

1:14

thoughts about St. Patrick's Day. You

1:16

do? No, I've got none. I've

1:18

got none. I've got none. I've

1:20

got none. I don't want to

1:22

go there. I nearly derailed this

1:24

whole episode. Yeah. Okay, I'm going

1:26

to derail it right now by

1:29

talking about the most walkable city

1:31

in the world. So I know

1:33

what you're thinking. It's got to

1:35

be somewhere in Texas. It's not.

1:37

I'm kidding, of course. I'm in

1:39

Austin right now. My friend convinced

1:42

me the other day that we should drive

1:44

to a place to a place to eat.

1:46

And we drove there. Because that's the

1:48

kind of people we are, apparently. That's

1:50

what they've made me into. It was

1:52

a visual capitalist article by Kayla Zoo,

1:55

wrote up some research from Embruno, Atal,

1:57

and Zadikonist that looked at the world's

1:59

most... They counted ones that

2:02

are over half a million people.

2:04

So not the tiny ones, or

2:06

small ones, I should say. Ranks

2:08

by the average time to walk

2:11

to key amenities and the share

2:13

of residents within a 15-minute walk

2:15

of key amenities, schools, hospitals,

2:18

restaurants, shops, things like that. Can

2:20

you guess? Number one. Are we

2:23

talking just in the US or

2:25

worldwide? Worldwide. I can give

2:27

you a hint if you want

2:29

the hint. I'm going to guess

2:31

Tokyo. Oh, okay. And

2:34

I'm going to say Venice.

2:36

Oh, that's a good

2:38

one. That is a

2:40

good one. So the hint

2:43

was going to be

2:45

that 45 of the top

2:47

50 were in Europe.

2:49

Paul's Venice is not

2:52

on the top 20, but

2:54

Italian city Milan

2:56

is number one. again

2:59

in Italy. So Kyoto

3:01

in Japan was the

3:03

most walkable non-European city,

3:05

so right country Danny,

3:08

on the list coming

3:10

in 28th though, which

3:12

is remarkable. Vancouver in

3:14

Canada was the highest

3:16

ranked North American

3:18

city in the overall list

3:21

at 53rd, which is low. Yeah, why

3:23

are all most walkable cities in

3:25

the world in Europe, why most

3:27

of them in Europe, primarily because

3:29

these cities were established long before

3:31

the advent of cars? Miss Zoo

3:34

points out, but also because they

3:36

prioritize walking through urban redesigns, national

3:38

walking policies, and strategic initiatives as

3:40

well. So it's not just because

3:42

of the history part, they're real

3:45

intention to keep their cities walkable.

3:47

Where is Amsterdam on the list?

3:49

Oh, I've got the top 20 here,

3:51

so if it didn't make the

3:53

top 20, then I'm not sure.

3:56

It's not on hit. I'm just

3:58

wondering because for biking... Yeah, we're

4:00

going to say number one for biking,

4:02

yeah. Yeah, but Copenhagen is as well.

4:04

That's why I was wondering, because, you

4:07

know, Copenhagen is almost like Amsterdam and

4:09

that everybody bikes, but obviously everybody walks

4:11

too. So I was wondering if the

4:14

two, those two, it'd be interesting to

4:16

see how those two factors correlate. Yeah,

4:18

that's a good point. Longest walkable,

4:20

longest pedestrian street in

4:23

the world, the strogate, strogat, I

4:25

can't pronounce it, but in Copenhagen.

4:27

So that one definitely makes

4:29

a lot of sense. Top

4:31

10, Milan, Copenhagen, Turin, Dublin,

4:34

Leon, Munich, Paris, Marseilles,

4:36

Genoa and Edinburgh. That's the

4:38

top 10. Anyway, Jay's real

4:40

topic. Beyond the Bundles, what

4:42

will shape the streaming world

4:45

next? All right, so gents, the

4:47

last few years we've been talking

4:49

a lot about bundling. in the

4:51

way that hit the streaming world,

4:53

the Disney Plus Hulu Max bundle,

4:55

the Disney Plus Hulu YesPM Plus

4:57

bundle, the Stars MGM Plus bundle,

4:59

and there's an AMC Plus One,

5:01

and some have worked out quite

5:03

well. Brad Adgate of Forbes was

5:05

noting the Disney Max bundle, Disney

5:07

Plus Hulu, and Max launched in

5:09

July 2024 and has today been

5:11

a success, according to Antenna, the

5:13

first six months over 20% of

5:15

new Max customers had subscribed to

5:17

the bundle. 80% of the near 2 million

5:19

that subscribed in the second half were still

5:22

subscribing three months later. So able to hold

5:24

on to those folks as well. So that

5:26

was the bundling wave. Now it's time to

5:28

discuss a few other waves that are being

5:30

made. One is the concept of the streaming

5:33

hub. Algarjo Savilia was writing that YouTube is

5:35

revamping its TV app. on connected TV is

5:37

to integrate more third-party streaming content directly

5:39

into its home page. Think Apple TV

5:41

Plus and Prime Video says expected. Within

5:44

months, the redesign aims to prioritize page

5:46

subscriptions from services like Peacock, Paramount Plus,

5:48

and Max, the aim here is to

5:50

position YouTube as a one-stop streaming destination.

5:52

Garjo notes. Daniel, I'll start with you.

5:55

Can YouTube be the household streaming hub?

5:57

In some ways, it kind of feels like it already is.

5:59

I mean, it's... Fair. One of the,

6:01

if not the top competitor in

6:03

digital video. It's making big gains

6:05

year over year in TV viewership.

6:08

In fact, I think they came

6:10

out with the stat recently that

6:12

more people are watching YouTube on

6:14

TVs than they are on their

6:16

phones, which is a really big

6:18

shift. So they absolutely could.

6:20

I mean, if they can meet, you

6:23

know, with these streaming hubs, I think

6:25

that, you know, these are an effort

6:27

to... Meet consumers where they are and

6:29

just offer them access to a

6:31

whole huge slew of content without

6:33

having to leave the interface or

6:35

the app that they're familiar with

6:37

and You know if YouTube is

6:40

already number one That's a

6:42

very familiar place to You know

6:44

make that transition It makes a

6:46

lot of sense, I mean Paul

6:48

to what Danny's saying, there's YouTube,

6:50

according to, based on viewers, so

6:52

not the whole population, but if

6:54

you look at viewers, YouTube is

6:57

third in terms of where people

6:59

spend most of their time, Netflix

7:01

first, about over one hour of

7:03

Netflix, spend over one hour of

7:05

Netflix, spend over an hour on

7:07

Netflix, Spotify, second, 54, and that's

7:10

obviously music, 54 minutes a day,

7:12

and YouTube is third, with 51

7:14

minutes a day. of all TV

7:16

time is spent on YouTube, all

7:18

TV time, not just a streaming

7:21

bit, all TV time, 11% spent

7:23

with YouTube. However, I am surprised

7:25

that folks would kind of

7:27

seed that much control to

7:29

a rival streaming service, so to

7:31

speak. Yeah, I think YouTube occupies

7:34

a very interesting space

7:36

in this spectrum, and

7:38

I think Danny touched on

7:40

this. you know, just talking

7:42

about the transition from mobile

7:44

to CTV. So now YouTube

7:46

is predominantly a CTV platform.

7:48

However, that's only when you

7:51

compare it to how mobile-centric it

7:53

had been up until maybe three,

7:55

four years ago. But when you

7:58

compare it to a Amazon... on

8:00

Prime, an Apple TV, a peacock,

8:02

a Netflix, YouTube is still very

8:04

spread out among different devices. So

8:07

I think what YouTube is trying

8:09

to do is become more and

8:11

more TV-like. And in order to

8:13

do that, it does have to

8:16

become, I think it has to

8:18

improve the user experience in terms

8:20

of the interface and accessing it

8:22

on a TV. But I think

8:24

the other key thing in terms

8:27

of being a content hub is

8:29

As you pointed out, Marcus, you

8:31

have to have partnerships, right? No

8:33

one is just going to suddenly

8:36

make their streaming platform available on

8:38

YouTube unless there's something in it

8:40

for them. And so far, that

8:43

hasn't really happened with YouTube. I

8:45

think YouTube is the common denominator

8:47

of all videos that are posted

8:49

by certainly individuals and creators and

8:52

increasingly media companies. But that doesn't

8:54

necessarily carry over to a standalone

8:56

streaming service. So as of right

8:58

now either Google hasn't pursued

9:00

those kinds of deals or

9:02

maybe there's just not enough

9:05

Come in enough of a

9:07

win-win for their partners. Yeah, but

9:09

in order to get to that

9:11

place you really do have to

9:14

cut deals with these rivals essentially

9:16

and obviously what has to

9:18

be in it for them is Either

9:21

a subscriber growth or revenue

9:23

growth or both And if they've

9:25

made that calculus and they're not

9:27

going to get there by giving

9:29

up a portion of their ad

9:31

revenue or even their subscriber revenue

9:33

to YouTube, then it's going to

9:35

be a hard nut to crack

9:37

for them. Yeah. But it seems like

9:39

something along those lines might already be

9:42

happening with... Prime Video because they have

9:44

definitely become a big hub for all

9:46

of these different streaming services. I think

9:48

the most recent one to, you know,

9:51

join in or launch like a tile

9:53

on Prime video is Apple TV. So

9:55

if you're one of these smaller streaming

9:57

services like Apple TV that's struggling to

10:00

to gain significant subscriber

10:02

growth since the market's

10:04

really saturated. A platform like

10:06

Prime Video that has this

10:08

enormous, you know, baked in

10:10

audience is clearly appealing and

10:13

you're willing to see to some

10:15

amount of revenues or whatever the

10:17

cut that Amazon takes in order

10:19

to be in front of more

10:22

people. So yeah, I mean, I think that

10:24

you're certainly right, like YouTube

10:26

is not there yet, but. I think

10:28

it may already be happening for... They

10:31

have a good point. They have a

10:33

few, YouTube has a few, YouTube has

10:35

a few partners. And they're really

10:37

doing this, it's just hard to find.

10:40

So if you go to YouTube and

10:42

then you go on the left hand

10:44

side, you go on the left hand

10:46

side, you go down to movies and

10:49

TV, and then in there if you

10:51

go down to prime time channels and

10:53

you scroll across, there are some folks,

10:55

but smaller ones, similar to what...

10:57

Amazon has, as Daniel was mentioning.

11:00

Yeah, but I think the key

11:02

there, Marcus, you hit on, is

11:04

hard to find. And that's where

11:06

the user experience comes into play.

11:08

You know, YouTube, frankly, has obviously

11:10

a lot of strengths, but clear

11:12

interfaces and clear branding have

11:14

not been their hallmarks. Yeah. And I

11:16

think what these partners are looking for

11:18

is a place where somebody's going to

11:21

turn on their smart TV and instantly

11:23

be able to navigate. if they're on

11:25

the YouTube app, instantly be able to

11:27

navigate to that Amazon tile or the

11:30

Apple TV or whatever it might be.

11:32

Yeah. I think that's going to

11:34

require some substantial re-design or re-engineering

11:36

on that's Google's part. Especially because

11:39

maybe this isn't a problem, but

11:41

I saw it as something that

11:43

could be quite confusing for folks.

11:45

Kurt Williams, YouTube, senior director of

11:48

product management, was telling the information.

11:50

The vision is that when you come

11:52

to our TV app. and you're looking for

11:54

a show, it will just blend away whether

11:56

that show is from a primetime channel or that

11:58

show is from a crease. I would want to

12:00

know the difference. I would want them to

12:03

be separate. So I'm wondering if it's

12:05

going to be harder for someone like

12:07

a YouTube because there is so much

12:09

user generated content there in the first

12:11

place. Yeah, I mean, I think there's

12:13

a big distinction there. Yeah, I mean,

12:15

YouTube does not have its own premium

12:17

content offerings, which is why I think

12:19

despite being the CTV leader, it is

12:22

viewed differently from a Netflix or prime

12:24

video or what have you. And I

12:26

think that distinction is really important. You

12:28

know, you know, mesh it together

12:30

and have a smooth experience in

12:32

my opinion. Yeah. Netflix probably has something

12:35

to say about this as well because

12:37

they're trying to be an entertainment hub

12:39

of sorts. They have TV shows and

12:41

movies obviously that they've made, that they've

12:43

licensed, they have live content now showing

12:45

American football games or just football games,

12:47

what is what you call them in

12:49

America because it's American football games, what

12:51

is what you call them in America

12:53

because it's American football because you're in

12:55

the country or wrestling now they've got

12:57

the games they're adding as well. So

12:59

they're trying to be an entertainment hub

13:02

of entertainment hub of sorts. trends, potential

13:04

wave that could be hitting

13:06

streaming, because it's kind of

13:08

already happening, Warner Brothers Discovery's

13:10

Max streaming service said it

13:12

will keep CNN Max news and its

13:14

BR sports offerings free on higher tiers

13:17

of its service, but they will no

13:19

longer be available on its cheapest and

13:21

sported basic tier. No, it's David Bloom

13:23

of Forbes. Basically what they're saying there

13:25

is if you are paying for the...

13:28

premium tier, you'll get news and sports.

13:30

If you're not, if you're paying for

13:32

the cheaper one, then they won't be

13:34

available on there. Paul, how will content

13:36

here? Is this idea of, you know, if

13:38

you're paying for the lower level subscription

13:40

plan, you're only going to get certain

13:43

amounts of content and you're going to

13:45

have to level up in terms of

13:47

how much you pay to get access

13:49

to more content, more types of content.

13:52

How does, how do content tiers in

13:54

your mind change, viewer engagement, and subscriptions?

13:56

Netflix and Disney Plus by rolling out

13:59

their ads here. they've inherently

14:01

created different levels of

14:03

access and you know

14:05

users or viewers get different

14:07

content depending on which tier

14:09

they're they're signed into or

14:11

at least they will get

14:13

an ad free experience versus

14:15

you know ad supported experience.

14:18

What's interesting about Warner Brothers

14:20

discovery is they're kind of

14:22

at a different point in

14:24

their trajectory They've definitely struggled.

14:26

They had a lot of

14:28

trouble Re-signings some of their

14:31

sports licenses, so they basically

14:33

lost out To some of

14:35

the big tech players when it

14:37

comes to live sports and They seem

14:39

to be in a place where they're

14:42

still prioritizing user growth. And

14:44

as we've discussed on this

14:46

show before, many of the

14:48

more established services have at

14:50

some point in the past

14:52

two or three years pivoted

14:54

from focusing on user growth

14:57

to focusing on revenue generation.

14:59

Obviously, Warner Brothers Discovery is

15:01

trying to do both, but

15:03

the play that they just

15:05

announced strikes me as a way

15:07

to boost the subscriber accounts

15:09

and... and the revenue will

15:11

presumably fall into place, you

15:13

know, as they grow their

15:15

base. So in some ways,

15:17

this development is more of the

15:19

same in terms of a streaming

15:22

service creating different tiers and

15:24

playing around with what its

15:26

own sweet spot is, with

15:29

how it monetizes those tiers.

15:31

But it's also an indication

15:33

to me of where... Warner Brothers

15:36

Discovery is compared to a lot

15:38

of the other services, some of

15:40

which are also struggling, but I

15:42

think Warner Brothers Discovery has had

15:45

a tougher time with all of

15:47

its content, news content, sports content,

15:49

entertainment content. Yeah, Danny, it was,

15:51

wasn't clear to me when I subscribed

15:54

to one of the Netflix tiers, the

15:56

ad supported one, that I wasn't going

15:58

to get access to all the content.

16:01

And so I'm wondering whether that's going

16:03

to have to be a point of

16:05

an point of emphasis, that you're going

16:07

to have to make it clear what

16:10

you're going to get and what

16:12

you're not going to get by paying

16:14

more and not paying as much for

16:16

some of these tiers. Yeah, I mean,

16:18

I certainly think that that could be

16:20

a problem, although there are ways

16:22

to get around that, you know, if you

16:24

say our customer who subscribes to the

16:26

cheapest tier. Not realizing that this means

16:29

you don't have access to sports. I

16:31

think that there are pretty easy ways

16:33

that Warner Brothers Discovery or any

16:35

streaming service could, you know, surface the

16:37

fact that like, hey, this big sports event

16:40

is coming. Right. You don't have access like

16:42

click here to up your subscription or something

16:44

like that. That's a great point. Yeah. And

16:47

that's a great way for them to get

16:49

people hooked onto a certain sports packages is

16:51

by making sure that they will join those

16:53

milestones, during those events they are telling people

16:56

about them. But what I guess. with

16:58

sports is a big category. It's easy

17:00

to say, because it's kind of like,

17:02

it's kind of like with cable, right?

17:05

It's old, it's a proven concept because

17:07

that's what we used to have with

17:09

cable when people would be like, okay,

17:11

you want basic cable, fine, you want

17:13

the sports package, do you want the

17:16

movie package, do you want the movie

17:18

package, do you want the whatever? And

17:20

if it's a group, it's fine, but

17:22

when it's more confusing for the consumer.

17:25

I think it is confusing and

17:27

consumers are increasingly selective about these

17:29

services and savvy about turning them

17:31

on and off so churn is

17:34

an issue. And I think streaming

17:36

services are going to have

17:38

to be somewhat more transparent

17:40

than they've been about what you

17:43

actually get when you sign in

17:45

to a given tier. You mentioned

17:47

Spotify before, Marcus. The music streaming

17:49

services I think have done

17:51

a better job of delineating

17:53

exactly like for example like

17:55

Amazon music if you subscribe

17:57

to the paid, you know,

18:00

you're going to get like I

18:02

don't know how many million tracks but

18:04

if you don't and you just

18:06

do the free ad supported you're

18:08

going to get like maybe two

18:10

millions so and they make that

18:13

pretty clear so does Apple music

18:15

so I think that kind

18:17

of reckoning is probably coming

18:19

to streaming services because

18:21

frankly they have not been

18:24

very transparent about what you

18:26

what they actually give people

18:28

for what they pay. YouTube trying to

18:30

be the hub of streaming for the

18:33

household. We talked about the different

18:35

tiers, the different types of subscriptions

18:37

that you can have, or different

18:40

types of services. We'll go down

18:42

a level further now and talks

18:44

about the types of content specifically

18:46

on those services, and particularly content

18:49

with, which still is able to pull

18:51

in large audiences. So we're talking about

18:53

a programming that pulls in tens of

18:56

millions of people. So this year's Super

18:58

Bowl. which is kind of the gold

19:00

standard of large audiences, poorly in a

19:02

record near 128 million viewers. But the

19:05

Super Bowl is, it's a gold standard

19:07

for a reason, it's in a tier,

19:09

all by itself when it comes to

19:11

live event audience viewership. The second most

19:14

watch show every year is also a

19:16

football playoff game. It kind of changes

19:18

year to year, but typically it's a

19:20

football playoff game. With less than half

19:23

the audience. In fact, you have to

19:25

go down to 11th place. on the

19:27

most watched shows or programs

19:29

of the year list to

19:32

find a non-football event, the

19:34

presidential debate pointed about 20

19:36

million people. And right behind

19:38

that in 12th place was

19:40

last year's Oscars. The Grammys

19:43

was in 19th, even they poured in

19:45

18 million viewers last year. So still

19:47

a substantial audience given they were in

19:50

a world of fragmented viewership. The Grammys

19:52

viewership though fell nearly 10% year on

19:54

year to 15 million. Globe's viewership in

19:57

January ticked down 1% from 9.4 to

19:59

9.3 million. A.B.C. said total viewership

20:01

for this year's Oscars, including Hulu,

20:03

was up 1% to reach 19.7.

20:05

So a mixed bag. Danny, can

20:07

streaming, where a lot of these

20:10

shows have moved over to, can streaming

20:12

maintain sizable enough audiences

20:14

for award shows, these

20:16

kind of second or third tier

20:19

events? I think definitely. I

20:21

mean, these streaming services have,

20:23

you know, something like Netflix

20:25

has millions of subscribers. Like,

20:27

I think that if you

20:29

are, I the rights holder

20:31

to one of these big

20:33

live events, it's certainly attractive

20:35

to partner with the streaming

20:37

service because they can expand

20:39

your reach, you can still

20:41

partner with linear TV, you

20:43

know, doesn't necessarily exclude you

20:45

from non-streaming broadcast options, and these

20:47

streaming services have shown that they're

20:50

willing to pay a lot of

20:52

money for access, exclusive access to

20:54

these live events, because even if,

20:56

you know, Grammy's viewership is down,

20:58

10. 15% and is sort of

21:00

plateauing after the pandemic, that is

21:02

still, you know, a somewhat guaranteed

21:05

audience of many millions of people.

21:07

And that's something that's very attractive

21:09

to advertisers and big budget advertisers.

21:12

That's that space that you can

21:14

charge a lot of money for.

21:16

Yeah. And you would tell the

21:19

me that. The Thanksgiving Day

21:21

Parade eclipses all these guys, all

21:23

of these war shows in viewership.

21:25

Yeah, that is a very interesting

21:27

one. The Thanksgiving, I don't have

21:29

the numbers handy, but the Macy's

21:31

Thanksgiving Day Parade just renewed its contract

21:34

with NBC Universal. I think it

21:36

was, you told me, when we

21:38

talked about it the other day,

21:40

I went and looked 31 million

21:42

record viewership last year, which is. And

21:44

it's higher than any of these

21:46

guys. Viewership across demographics too, you

21:49

know, it's that's yes, imagine like

21:51

a family on the couch on

21:53

Thanksgiving morning. That's, you know, the

21:55

umbrella of age ranges watching

21:57

this event together. So definitely.

22:00

big advertising opportunity and something that's

22:02

interesting about it that just speaks

22:04

to what I was saying about

22:06

streaming services willing being willing to

22:09

pay a lot of money for

22:11

these events is that when negotiations

22:13

for started for streaming rights for

22:15

the Thanksgiving parade Macy's was reportedly

22:18

asking for as much as three

22:20

times the previous contracts value

22:22

so just really capitalizing

22:24

on the the hunger among streaming

22:26

services for these events. Paul where

22:29

do you stand? Because it's

22:31

a hard one to figure out.

22:33

I'm looking at Academy

22:35

Awards viewership from 2000s

22:38

onwards used to be about 46 million

22:40

people tuning in so huge audience. It

22:42

kind of maintained that through to 2014

22:44

and then and then has just kind

22:46

of been in free fall up until

22:49

the pandemic where low point was 10

22:51

million in 2021 is rebounded but it's

22:53

to use Danny's word it's kind of

22:55

plateaued now a kind of 19 to

22:57

20 million. Where do you see? I

23:00

mean this is just one of them

23:02

but where do you see award shows

23:04

viewership going in the future? I don't see

23:06

that they're going to grow a lot from

23:08

where they are. I think what is

23:11

happening is the distribution of

23:13

viewers is shifting increasingly towards

23:15

streaming as it becomes

23:17

more available and more

23:19

prevalent in the viewing

23:21

population. And I think that in

23:23

the case of the Oscar specifically,

23:25

because it is a Disney property,

23:28

it made sense that it streamed

23:30

on Hulu, but I saw that

23:32

the New York Post reported that

23:34

There's some tension between the film

23:36

academy and Disney. So I guess

23:38

there are some conversations with Netflix

23:40

about carrying it. So this could

23:43

be one of those things like

23:45

some of the big sports events

23:47

that shifts to a non-affiliated streaming

23:49

property, you know, not affiliated with

23:51

the broadcast network. But

23:53

I think in terms of the total

23:55

audience, one thing I'd like to highlight

23:57

is just how politicized these.

24:00

these types of shows have become.

24:02

And I'm not talking necessarily about

24:04

the shows themselves pushing buttons

24:06

politically. I think the Oscars went

24:08

out of their way this year

24:10

to try to be apolitical,

24:12

but just the nature of

24:14

discourse in this country and how

24:17

divided everything is means that

24:19

the Oscars are seen as sort

24:21

of like the Hollywood elite, you

24:23

know, which is typically like... liberal

24:25

leaning. So I think that kind

24:27

of shuts out a lot of

24:29

the audience and because this trend

24:31

has been happening, the golf has

24:33

been widening over the years that

24:35

you singled out, you know, since

24:37

like 2014, 2015 or so, I

24:39

think that is going to be

24:41

a limiting factor. So even if

24:43

more, you know, more of the

24:45

viewing is happening on streaming services,

24:48

which seems inevitable. I don't know

24:50

if we're going to see like

24:52

an overall rise. in the number of people

24:54

who tune in. Yeah, yeah, it's a great take. Yeah,

24:56

might not be able to get back to

24:59

where they were, but might not have to,

25:01

because they fell from a very high number,

25:03

and they're still at a very high number,

25:05

even if they've been going to cut viewership

25:08

in half. Also, another bright spot is key

25:10

demographics doing well, Oscars reaching post-pandemic highs for

25:12

adults. 18 to 34, about 3 million viewers,

25:15

that's up 30% year on year, which

25:17

is great, and then viewership for adults

25:19

18 to 49, also reaching its peak

25:21

since 2020, with about 6 million people,

25:23

that's up 20%. That's all we have

25:25

time for. For today's episode, thank you

25:27

so much to my guests for hanging

25:29

out with me today. We first thank

25:31

Danny. Yeah, no problem. I was a

25:33

pleasure. Thank you to Paul. Thank you

25:35

Marcus, great being here. And thanks of

25:37

course to the whole editing crew, Victoria,

25:39

John Lawrence and Danny Stewart who runs

25:41

the team, and Sophie does our social

25:43

media. Thanks to everyone for listening in,

25:45

to The Behind the Numbers Show, an

25:47

e-marketer video podcast made possible by Tracks.

25:49

Sarah will be here on Wednesday for

25:51

the retail show for a conversation all

25:54

about ageism in beauty.