0:00

971 FM The Drive Presents

0:02

the Behind the Song podcast.

0:04

Taking you deeper into classic

0:07

rock's most timeless tunes. Here's

0:09

your host, Janda. Hey, let's

0:11

talk about Black Sabbath. It's

0:14

Janda, here with Christian for

0:16

this bonus episode to talk

0:18

about the big Black Sabbath

0:21

reunion happening this summer

0:23

in Birmingham England. They're

0:25

calling it back to

0:27

the beginning. I think one

0:29

thing we've learned over the years,

0:31

especially when it comes to these

0:33

kind of rock bands, is never

0:36

say never, obviously, like you would

0:38

just never say never, and to

0:40

be in Birmingham, where it all

0:43

started, it's, you know, bitter sweet,

0:45

obviously, it's, it's sweet because it's

0:48

the real core for, it's the

0:50

originals. It's in Birmingham, which implies

0:52

that it'll be in front of

0:55

whatever families they have left there

0:57

and friends. And it's also bitter because,

0:59

you know, it's the end of the

1:01

road. But boy did they give us

1:03

a lot. We're talking Aussie,

1:05

Geezer, Tony Iomey, and Bill

1:07

Ward, who was kind of,

1:09

you know, the dark horse

1:11

in all this because they

1:13

were under contract dispute for

1:16

so many years. Bill Ward,

1:18

the original four members of

1:20

Black Sabbath. getting back together

1:22

one last time to perform

1:24

in the birthplace of Black

1:26

Sabbath, Birmingham, England. I mean,

1:28

when I heard this news,

1:30

especially knowing everything that Ozzy

1:32

Osborne has been through over the

1:34

past, you know, five, six years

1:36

between having Parkinson's disease

1:38

and then all of the

1:40

surgeries that Ozzy had after,

1:43

you know, the accident that

1:45

hurt his back. I mean, he

1:47

said it himself, he's the

1:49

ten man. He arguably was

1:51

having a hard time remembering things

1:53

starting in the 80s, I'd say.

1:55

You know, I guess he's been

1:58

working out and building up his

2:00

strength and I just I find

2:02

that so inspiring and so beautiful.

2:04

The show date is July 5th

2:06

and when this thing went on

2:09

sale around Valentine's Day it sold

2:11

out per live nation in 10

2:13

minutes. Now the venue that Black

2:15

Sabbath is playing in holds about

2:17

40,000. It's a place called Aston

2:19

Villa in their hometown of Birmingham

2:21

England. So people from all over

2:24

the world. are going to be

2:26

at this at this reunion show.

2:28

It was a shock to anybody

2:30

who's been a fan of rock

2:32

music over these past decades because

2:34

like you said Christian there is

2:37

hardly anyone in the entire rock

2:39

canon who has famously put himself

2:41

through quite as much in terms

2:43

of substances and everything else than

2:45

Ozzy Osborne. And let's just, you

2:47

know, backtrack a little bit over

2:49

just focusing on Ozzy alone for

2:52

one second. You know, here was

2:54

a guy who I believe if

2:56

Ozzy didn't become a musician. from

2:58

everything that I've known and seen

3:00

about Aussie, you know, as a

3:02

fan over the years. I think

3:05

Aussie is one of those guys

3:07

who had two options in front

3:09

of him. You know, he was

3:11

either going to be in a

3:13

band, a rock and roll band,

3:15

or probably not much good would

3:17

happen. You know, he didn't have

3:20

that many choices in his life.

3:22

He said himself, actually, he was

3:24

13 years old, and he heard

3:26

she loves you. He was walking

3:28

to school and he was going

3:30

to shoot the Beatles. And the

3:33

first time hearing the Beatles and

3:35

it was the first time that

3:37

it hit him that he was

3:39

didn't have many choices and it

3:41

was either going to be a

3:43

life of crime or he was

3:45

going to get in a band

3:48

and do what they were doing

3:50

and get out of Birmingham. Alton

3:52

more more specifically, which was you

3:54

know, even a tinier part of

3:56

Birmingham. Yeah, I don't think. There

3:58

just wasn't a whole lot of

4:01

options, you know, as I'm sure

4:03

we'll talk about, you know, it

4:05

was just an industrial town. And, you

4:07

know, you could basically do what your

4:09

dad did, and you didn't have those,

4:11

the prospects, you know, of like, each

4:14

generation is gonna do better than the

4:16

next. It was sort of like, no,

4:18

you'll be lucky if you just keep

4:20

doing what your dad and his dad

4:22

did. Yeah, he's, he's one of those

4:25

guys that, you know, saved by rock

4:27

and roll. This episode is brought

4:29

to you by Lifelock. During tax season,

4:31

your personal info travels to a lot

4:34

of places. Between payroll, your tax consultant,

4:36

and the IRS. If your W-2

4:38

gets exposed, that's just the ticket for

4:40

identity thieves. That's why Lifelock monitors millions

4:43

of data points every second. If your

4:45

identity is stolen, they'll fix it guaranteed

4:47

or your money back. Don't let identity

4:50

thieves take you for a ride.

4:52

Save up to 40% your first year.

4:54

Visit Lifelcom slash podcast. Terms Apply. Terms,

4:56

terms apply. This episode

4:58

is brought to you by Progressive

5:01

Insurance. Do you ever find yourself

5:03

playing the budgeting game? Well, with

5:05

the name your price tool from

5:08

Progressive, you can find options that

5:10

fit your budget and potentially lower

5:12

your bills. Try it at Progressive.com.

5:14

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

5:17

Price and coverage match limited by

5:19

state law, not available in all

5:21

states. Absolutely.

5:25

So Black Sabbath happens. You know,

5:27

over the course of his life,

5:30

Ozzy is kicked out of Black

5:32

Sabbath in the late 70s because

5:35

he was too wild and crazy.

5:37

And then embarks on this solo

5:39

enterprise, you know, gets with Sharon

5:42

Osborne, then does the Ozzy records.

5:44

And along the way, Bice had

5:46

off a bat, maybe a couple

5:49

other, you know, farm animals. And

5:51

then, you know, later... After he

5:54

has established himself and has

5:56

a big estate in Beverly

5:58

Hills, the Osbournes... show happens

6:00

and that is when America and

6:02

the rest of the world really

6:05

got a load of how kind

6:07

of cuddly and endearing Ozzy could

6:09

be. It made people kind of

6:12

fall in love with him even

6:14

if they weren't fans of Black

6:16

Sabbath or of Ozzy's solo

6:18

records. So we all kind of

6:20

have a stake you know through

6:23

through pop culture period in Ozzy's

6:25

well-being and that's why it was

6:27

so... Shocking, you know, knowing what

6:30

we know about his health issues,

6:32

that this show was announced.

6:34

Because he's fragile. He's so

6:37

fragile, you know, he has

6:39

advanced Parkinson's, the surgeries, he

6:41

has a really, really, really hard

6:44

time. So everybody was very excited

6:46

to hear about this news. And

6:48

it's not just Black Sabbath. It's

6:51

not just the hallowed four originals

6:53

coming back together and taking the

6:55

stage on July 5th in Birmingham.

6:58

There's an entire slew of bands

7:00

that are on this bill. Metallica

7:03

and Slayer and Allison chains and

7:05

anthrax and on and on and

7:07

on. And then there's the special

7:10

guests who are going to

7:12

be performing like... with Ozzy

7:14

solo. You know, Billy Corgan

7:16

from The Pumpkins and Duff

7:18

McKagan and Slash are gonna

7:20

be there. I mean, this

7:22

is kind of crazy. And

7:24

then you have, as the

7:26

musical director, Tom Morello, of Rage

7:28

Against the Machine, who's going to

7:31

be kind of orchestrating the whole

7:33

day. And Tom Morello said that

7:35

this will be the greatest heavy

7:37

metal show ever. And I have

7:39

to believe that that's true. This

7:41

has got to be on par

7:43

with, you know, the best Ozfest

7:45

lineup that you've ever seen, you

7:47

know, times 10 because of the

7:49

fact that you have Black Sabbath

7:51

reunited there on stage. Right, I

7:53

was going to actually bring up, you

7:56

know, when we were talking about cultural

7:58

import of Azbourn, the Azfest. Arguably,

8:00

one of the biggest enterprises that

8:03

has his name on it, you

8:05

know, it's the thing that Sharon

8:07

helped really organize, but it's really,

8:10

it really, you know, for like

8:12

later generation metal fans and metal

8:14

bands, it really broke a lot

8:17

of new bands. It sort of

8:19

kept. heavy metal going and especially

8:21

in a package tour way at

8:23

a time when you know metal

8:26

always has its up and downs

8:28

it's it's got it's cultural peaks

8:30

and valleys. The Oz fest was

8:33

sort of at a time when

8:35

like all the it was all

8:37

pop and boy bands and Brittany

8:40

Spears You know the Oz fest

8:42

was really keeping the flame alive

8:44

for heavy metal and giving it

8:47

a venue if you will and

8:49

in a place to see new

8:51

bands. Here's some classic bands and

8:54

Yeah, so you know it really

8:56

is kind of like an asbestos

8:58

on steroids because you have black

9:01

Sabbath. It's crazy. Yeah, it's something

9:03

that I don't think anybody thought

9:05

that they would ever see again.

9:08

So you have this this huge

9:10

event happening in Birmingham. And the

9:12

city of Birmingham itself, you know,

9:15

a lot of people will agree,

9:17

although there's always some dispute about,

9:19

you know, who was the first

9:22

heavy metal band, but just about

9:24

everybody would have to put Black

9:26

Sabbath at least up near the

9:29

top of the list, if not

9:31

at the top of the list

9:33

in terms of... you know, the

9:36

originators of, of heavy metal and,

9:38

and then even, you know, you

9:40

know, doom metal and even stoner

9:43

rock. Yeah, heavy metal as a

9:45

sound and heavy metal as a

9:47

sort of mindset, does that make

9:50

sense? Sure. They really did sort

9:52

of, for me, they're number one,

9:54

they're the first metal band, because

9:57

they were the first that actively

9:59

were, you know, embraced something at

10:01

a time that no one embraced

10:03

that no one was looking at,

10:06

which was the dark side of

10:08

culture and life at that time.

10:10

I mean, you know, it was

10:13

1968 and Vietnam and political assassinations

10:15

and goodness gracious on and on.

10:17

They were reflecting that side instead

10:20

of the sunshine and granny glasses

10:22

that most bands were portraying at

10:24

the time. So then you have

10:27

this sort of dark heavy music

10:29

that is not peace and love

10:31

flower child stuff, coming out of

10:34

a place like Birmingham, which is

10:36

itself, you know. a dark industrial

10:38

factory town and especially in those

10:41

days it was the city fits

10:43

the sound the sound fits the

10:45

city much like when the grunge

10:48

scene happened in Seattle and it

10:50

sort of reflected the weather there

10:52

you know that the rainy Pacific

10:55

Northwest the music of Black Sabbath

10:57

also reflects geographically where they're from

10:59

Birmingham is an industrial town and

11:02

the sound of it is large

11:04

things hitting each other. It's pistons

11:06

and it's, you know, it's compressors.

11:09

And so Tony Iomi is working

11:11

in a factory and, you know,

11:13

he's an aspiring musician, but he's

11:16

thinking I have to make some

11:18

sort of racket that's going to

11:20

compete with this. That's on his

11:23

mind. It also directly influences the

11:25

music in a way that I

11:27

think a lot of people know,

11:30

but for those of you don't.

11:32

When Tony Aumi was a teenager

11:34

and he's working in a factory,

11:37

he lost two fingertips on his

11:39

left hand. And if you're a

11:41

right-handed guitar player, that's your moneymaker.

11:43

You need that to fret and

11:46

make chords. And to make the,

11:48

especially, you need all four fingers

11:50

to make those lush and beautiful

11:53

chords. being a guitar player, it

11:55

actually hurts a little bit to

11:57

hear or think about it, but

12:00

he lost his fingertips. And he

12:02

thought, that's it, I'm done, I'll

12:04

never play guitar. And that's, it's

12:07

like, you don't have choices, it's

12:09

either factory or the dream of

12:11

making it out in music. And

12:14

he's very much in despair. And

12:16

a co-worker brings him a record

12:18

by Jango Reinhart, a gypsy guitar

12:21

player, two working fingers. on his

12:23

left hand and still was still

12:25

considered one of the most revolutionary

12:28

guitar players inspired everybody from Jerry

12:30

Garcia to all the folk guys.

12:32

Anyway, he's inspired. He then takes

12:35

felt basically pieces of leather I

12:37

guess and fashions fingertips for himself.

12:39

This is gonna force him to

12:42

play in a different way. And

12:44

what it does, it forces him

12:46

to play really simple and do

12:49

a lot of one string riffs.

12:51

Meaning you're not going, you don't

12:53

need, you know, to play those

12:56

beautiful chords, you need all those

12:58

fingers, but to play one string

13:00

riffs, you just need one finger,

13:03

really. That changes the way he

13:05

approaches guitar. And that changes the

13:07

way. heavy metal guitar players in

13:10

the future will play. He takes

13:12

a note from blues players and

13:14

tries some different tunings on his

13:17

guitar, discovers that if he drops

13:19

the low E string down a

13:21

whole step, sorry if I'm getting

13:24

into the weeds, he drops it

13:26

a whole step to D, he

13:28

can make power chords with just

13:30

one finger laying across the fret.

13:33

This changes. everything. It changes the

13:35

sound, it changes what he can

13:37

do, and so the city changes

13:40

Tony IOMI physically, changes the way

13:42

he approaches guitar, which then changes

13:44

the way heavy metal sound going

13:47

forth. especially what you're, you know,

13:49

you were saying about Seattle, especially

13:51

inspires years later, those grunge players

13:54

in Seattle, with that gloomy weather,

13:56

what an appropriate band to take

13:58

a page from, and they all

14:01

started dropping the D, dropping the

14:03

E-string to D, and, you know,

14:05

creating some of the heaviest music

14:08

of, you know, you and my.

14:10

time. Right, exactly, in the 90s.

14:12

That was an interesting way to

14:15

put it. You know, the city

14:17

of Birmingham basically shaped Tony Iomey

14:19

by virtue of taking away his

14:22

fingertips, and then he in turn,

14:24

uh, persevered on the inspiration of

14:26

Jango Reinhart, uh, who had also

14:29

lost a couple fingers, and then

14:31

he shaped a way to make

14:33

sounds out of the guitar, which

14:36

let's think about that for a

14:38

minute. guitar's stringed instruments have been

14:40

in existence centuries. I mean, you

14:43

know, I think of, you know,

14:45

the loot, putting strings on pieces

14:47

of wood and playing them. And

14:50

then comes Tony Iomey with a

14:52

couple fingertips off and completely sort

14:54

of revolutionizes how you approach this

14:57

instrument, you know, with an electronic

14:59

instrument, you know, you know, Jango,

15:01

minus a couple fingers, changing the

15:04

way jazz guitar will sound forever.

15:06

And then you've got Tony Iomey

15:08

minus a couple fingers, changing the

15:10

couple fingertips, changing the way rock

15:13

guitar will sound forever. So just

15:15

don't ever underestimate those dudes who

15:17

lose their fingertips. They will come

15:20

back with a vengeance. I guess

15:22

that is the lesson from that.

15:24

Wow. So, and speaking of Tony

15:27

Alami's fingertips, Janda, I know you

15:29

interviewed Tony Alami in LA once,

15:31

did you get a look at

15:34

the fingertips? I did. I had

15:36

a great chat with Tony Iomey.

15:38

This was back in 2000. I

15:41

asked him if I could see

15:43

it and he said, yeah, sure.

15:45

It's not like his whole, it's

15:48

not like, you know, the fingers

15:50

gone to the the knuckle or

15:52

anything like that. It's just, it's

15:55

just the tips, but that tip

15:57

you can see would be crucial

15:59

enough to make or break someone

16:02

who, you know, wasn't going to

16:04

persevere and basically relearn how to

16:06

do, how to, how to play

16:09

his instrument. So it was kind

16:11

of amazing to see that. gentlemanly

16:13

and you know obviously so very

16:16

British and he was dressed all

16:18

in black of course and he

16:20

was he was he was a

16:23

he was a real delight to

16:25

talk to you I would say

16:27

you know one of my top

16:30

ten you know rock star conversations

16:32

ever Tony I owe me so

16:34

I met him at a studio

16:37

briefly in Los Angeles he was

16:39

with Sharon Osborne and he was

16:41

hearing black sport coat coat with

16:44

sequence on the sequence on the

16:46

lapels But it was cool. It

16:48

was cool. He was so like

16:50

understated somehow. He's very cool, very

16:53

cool guy. Yeah, I mean, Tony

16:55

Iomey, totally brilliant. As a Osborne,

16:57

fantastic front man and melodic singer

17:00

based on, you know, his first

17:02

love of music, The Beatles. He's

17:04

like a Beatles. fanatic practically. Yeah.

17:07

That's, it just still, all his

17:09

melodies, he still thinks of it

17:11

as he's just trying to be

17:14

the Beatles. I mean, I just

17:16

think that's so cool because, you

17:18

know, through Azi's filter, it takes

17:21

on a whole new sort of

17:23

shape, but the melodies are there.

17:25

And then you have rounding out,

17:28

you know, the, the O.G. Black

17:30

Sabbath, Bill Ward and Gezer Butler

17:32

holding down the rhythm section. So,

17:35

you know, you think about these

17:37

guys in this industrial town in

17:39

the late 60s, you know, end

17:42

of the... the 60s decade, you

17:44

know, coming at it with a

17:46

completely different perspective. And then they

17:49

get two whole days of studio

17:51

time to record their first, you

17:53

know, their debut album, the Black

17:56

Sabbath album, one of which was

17:58

dedicated to mixing it. So basically

18:00

they had one day to record

18:03

it. And then, you know, they

18:05

get in there and they crank

18:07

out these songs that, wow. Nobody

18:10

ever heard anything like that before.

18:12

Can I just say what a

18:14

baller move it is to name

18:17

a song Black Sabbath? Let's just

18:19

talk about the- I mean, come

18:21

on. Not only the song is

18:24

named Black Sabbath, the album is

18:26

named Black Sabbath, the band is

18:28

named Black Sabbath. I mean, if

18:30

you want to piss off your

18:33

parents, go ahead and bring home

18:35

a Black Sabbath album. I would

18:37

say definitely then, but I mean,

18:40

even potentially now, it's still. They're

18:42

one of those bands that can

18:44

piss parents off no matter when,

18:47

you know, what you've seen no

18:49

matter what decade it is. I

18:51

think Black Sabbath has the ability

18:54

to shock and in a good

18:56

way, you know, in that good

18:58

rock and roll way of like

19:01

if it's too loud, you're too

19:03

old, you know, that's that's what.

19:05

A great thing about Sabbath for

19:08

me. I agree completely. And those

19:10

first three albums, you know, I

19:12

think all in, you know, Black

19:15

Sabbath, Paranoid, and Master of Reality,

19:17

those three albums, you know, the

19:19

band couldn't have known it at

19:22

the time, but I think that

19:24

they, those three albums in particular,

19:26

created a sort of safe space

19:29

for metal fans who he would

19:31

be in that Black Sabbath camp,

19:33

you know. as opposed to like

19:36

there's a fun side of metal

19:38

and then there's sort of like

19:40

the the dark and heavy side

19:43

of metal and Black Sabbath firmly

19:45

established that. Oh yeah that's a

19:47

good way of looking at it

19:50

I never thought about the safe

19:52

space for metal fans or for

19:54

that kind of metal fan yeah

19:57

that's a good thing the thinking

19:59

man's metal like guess, you know,

20:01

yeah. Well, and what's interesting when

20:04

you say that to the thinking

20:06

man's metal, you know, people, I

20:08

know I've said it, they're riff

20:10

rock and they're, you know, whatever,

20:13

they're the first heavy metal band.

20:15

But surprisingly, socially conscious, if you

20:17

will, you know, there's songs about

20:20

the environment, there's songs about drug

20:22

addiction. It's surprising, and yeah, you

20:24

know, for such a metal band,

20:27

Gesar Butler has written some really

20:29

astute lyrics, if you will. It's

20:31

a sci-fi guy. Yeah, he's a

20:34

big sci-fi guy. And, you know,

20:36

at that time, in the late

20:38

60s, sci-fi was firmly under the

20:41

umbrella of hippie literature. So there

20:43

was a lot of... talks about

20:45

ecology and the environment and putting

20:48

in stories about American Indians, but

20:50

you know disguising them as science

20:52

fiction. Just it was a surprisingly

20:55

fertile area. of literature and he

20:57

was really into it as well

20:59

as comic books which you know

21:02

ironman but sure yeah I mean

21:04

he was he was surprisingly literate

21:06

and he was a he was

21:09

definitely always searching for something from

21:11

what I've read he he was

21:13

interested in the dark side but

21:16

he was very interested in Christianity

21:18

as well it's a he's a

21:20

surprising dude he's you know so

21:23

the lyrics when you say the

21:25

thinking man's metal, you're very right

21:27

about that. That's very actually accurate.

21:30

You know what, the great thing

21:32

is about rock and roll, aside

21:34

from the music, is that, you

21:37

know, along the way, we all

21:39

end up learning something from our

21:41

elders, don't we, Christian? Yeah, you

21:44

never know. I mean, the lesson,

21:46

that's true. The lessons are everywhere.

21:48

Yeah. I mean, you just, sometimes

21:50

you just don't expect you just

21:53

don't expect to get them from

21:55

black Sabbath. I think of Beavis

21:57

and Butthead banging your head. And

22:00

the best bands to me create

22:02

their own world and that you

22:04

can step in. And when you're

22:07

listening to them, you're not just

22:09

listening to a record, but you're

22:11

sort of stepping into their worldview.

22:14

You're stepping into the language that

22:16

they use, the sort of way

22:18

they put things. You know, Sabbath

22:21

was a real world. It was

22:23

a real, like if this is

22:25

a video game, you'd call it

22:28

world building. You know, it's a

22:30

real, it's a real whole world

22:32

you step into. And I think

22:35

that's part of what makes them

22:37

so potent and why we're still

22:39

talking about them. Campfire seasons back.

22:42

And that means Smorse. But when

22:44

you're at home treating yourself, take

22:46

them over ice. With Duncan Smorse

22:49

cold brew concentrate. and suddenly you're

22:51

always treating yourself. The home with

22:53

Duncan is where you want to

22:56

be. Click or tap the banner

22:58

to shop now. Hey,

23:03

it's Brian. And hey, it is Murdoch.

23:05

Welcome to the Rock and Roll Story,

23:07

guys podcast. It's a show where two

23:10

best friends sit around and talk about

23:12

rock and roll, rumor, and innuendo. We

23:14

used to work together, we booked concerts

23:16

together, we've done very bad things together,

23:19

seen things, we shouldn't have seen things

23:21

together, seen things, we shouldn't have seen

23:23

things. Wait, wait, we've seen things, we

23:25

shouldn't have seen. Wait, wait, wait, we've

23:27

seen, download, now, now, now, wherever you

23:30

like to find audio, to put in

23:32

audio, to put in your put in

23:34

your ear holes. talking about them just

23:36

makes me want to pull out those

23:38

first three albums and and listen to

23:41

them really loud too you know I

23:43

mean there's there's something so powerful and

23:45

so sort of pure about that heavy

23:47

having music and you know God bless

23:50

Black Sabbath for getting back together and

23:52

God bless Ozzy Osborne too I mean

23:54

you know where would we be without

23:56

them I'm so happy that this reunion's

23:58

happening and I'm so happy that you

24:01

know Ozzy's gonna Give it one more

24:03

go for the fans, which is what

24:05

he said he wanted to do by

24:07

doing this show. And even though we

24:09

won't be able to go to Birmingham,

24:12

England, sadly, Christian, to see this big

24:14

day of Rock on July 5th with

24:16

Black Sabbath and so many other bands,

24:18

it was just announced that Ozzy's the

24:21

subject of a new documentary that's coming

24:23

out on Paramount. They basically started filming

24:25

when he did the patient number nine

24:27

solo album in like 2022. And then

24:29

they've been filming him throughout his

24:32

Parkinson's journey and throughout his journey

24:34

with all of the surgeries over

24:36

the past few years. And then

24:38

it will culminate with this final

24:40

Black Sabbath show on July 5th.

24:42

And then that documentary is going

24:44

to be coming out on Paramount

24:46

Plus later this year. So we'll

24:49

definitely be watching that along with

24:51

everybody else who couldn't get a

24:53

ticket to the show. Oh, I

24:55

can't wait to see that. I'm so

24:57

glad they're doing that. That's really great.

24:59

I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, and

25:01

if you happen to get a ticket to

25:03

go to Birmingham and see this final show

25:05

with Black Sabbath on July 5th

25:08

and take some videos, send it

25:10

to us. You can find me

25:12

on Instagram or anywhere. All right,

25:14

Christian, as always. Thank you for

25:16

your musical insights on this little

25:18

bonus chit chat of the Behind

25:20

the Behind the Song podcast. Appreciated

25:22

as always a pleasure. And on the

25:25

way, much more classic rock and roll.