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971 FM The Drive presents

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the Behind the Song podcast.

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Taking you deeper into classic

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rock's most timeless tunes. Here's

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your host, Janda. I'm Janda

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here with Christian Lane for

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this bonus episode of the

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Behind the Song podcast to

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talk about notable guitar solos.

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And Christian, you have some

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criteria for this. handy dandy

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list that you've put together.

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So let's jump right in. It's

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criteria of sort. I wanted to

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do a broad spectrum. Also, one

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of my main things, my main

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criteria for a guitar solo is,

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is it memorable? Can you hum

0:39

it? Can you sing it? Kind

0:41

of the melodic quality of it. Yeah,

0:43

and also I should say, I am

0:45

also a songwriter. So I can't help.

0:48

But think for the whole of the

0:50

song, the good of the song, and

0:52

so I think of like, does it

0:55

reinforce the melody of the chorus or

0:57

the verse, you know, that the singer

0:59

is singing? So that's something that's kind

1:01

of in the back of my head

1:04

to always, you know, if I were

1:06

to, you know, say, evaluate the success

1:08

of a solo, part of it would

1:10

have to be, does it serve the

1:13

song and does it make the song

1:15

better by being there? And there are

1:17

some instances in which, you know, that

1:19

could be true in both cases. It

1:22

can serve the song, and then it

1:24

can also be a showpiece. I'll just

1:26

give you one that I think of

1:29

right off the top of my head.

1:31

You know, the opening of Layla,

1:33

Duane Alman, and that amazing

1:35

guitar riff. I will tell

1:37

you this. In the years that

1:39

I've been a DJ on the

1:41

radio, not once, not ever, have

1:43

I ever talked over the opening

1:46

of the song Lela, because I

1:48

don't think that you should. I

1:50

think it's wrong to talk over

1:52

it and I just won't ever

1:54

do it. I'm very proud of

1:57

you. But it also serves the

1:59

song very... and of course, you

2:01

know, Dwayne Allman with his amazing

2:03

slide work throughout the song, Lela,

2:05

you know, in a room full

2:08

of guitar players, Clapton, you know.

2:10

It sets the stage for that

2:12

song really, really effectively. That opening

2:14

riff is a hook. Musicians often

2:16

talk about the hook, and the

2:19

hook is usually the chorus, you

2:21

know, the thing that you want

2:23

to sing, the crowd sings with

2:25

or whatever you want to say,

2:28

but... Sometimes a guitar solo is

2:30

the hook and Layla is a

2:32

perfect example of that. It's just,

2:34

God, it sets the stage of

2:36

that song. A really effective way

2:39

to use the guitar in a

2:41

song, which is what you're talking

2:43

about here today. You have a

2:45

couple of songs that you mentioned

2:48

that were a little bit surprising

2:50

to me. Well, let's do this.

2:52

Let's start with, you give me

2:54

one that you were surprised with

2:56

and let's, let's talk about it.

2:59

Well, when you mentioned Octopus's Garden

3:01

by the Beatles, I was like,

3:03

okay, wow, you know, it doesn't

3:05

stand out like certain other songs,

3:08

like say a la. So I

3:10

found that to be really interesting

3:12

that you would put, put this

3:14

one on your list of notable

3:16

guitar solos. So

3:21

yeah, it's not, it doesn't jump out

3:23

the way like say a sweet child

3:26

of mine does, you know, like the

3:28

way that/comes slashing in. No, the reason

3:30

I picked octopus's garden is, okay, it's

3:32

twofold. First of all, it is genuinely

3:35

one of George's best solos. It's very,

3:37

very beautifully crafted. To me, it's a

3:39

lot of the things that George loves

3:41

about lead guitar, which is slide, which

3:44

is country, which is whimsy. He was

3:46

usually reinforcing the melody of the song,

3:48

literally just playing. the same

3:50

notes that John

3:53

and Paul were just

3:55

singing to do

3:57

a solo, which is

3:59

an approach that

4:02

has served many guitar

4:04

players. Kurt Cobain,

4:06

I think of immediately,

4:08

I think it

4:11

smells like Teen Spirit.

4:13

His guitar solo

4:15

is just the verse.

4:23

He's just mimicking the verse

4:25

there. He completely got that from

4:27

George Harrison, and it's an

4:29

extremely effective way to reinforce the

4:32

hook. So in the context

4:34

of the Beatles, it makes perfect

4:36

sense. They're so memorable, and

4:38

part of what reinforces that is

4:40

having a solo that's playing

4:42

the same thing as the chorus

4:45

or the verse. Octopus' Garden

4:47

goes off book. He completely goes

4:49

off book, and for me,

4:51

he elevates what could have easily

4:53

just been a novelty song

4:56

to somewhere else that you

4:58

don't expect a song

5:00

about an octopus's lair under

5:02

the sea to have

5:04

this beautiful solo that's, I

5:06

don't know, reminiscent of

5:08

Clapton of Carl Perkins. I

5:10

just love it, and

5:12

it is one that guitar

5:14

players will talk about

5:16

when George comes up. So

5:18

that's why that oddball

5:20

made it there. George was

5:22

going to make it to my

5:24

list of notable solos because I

5:26

love him. It is kind of how

5:28

I learned how to craft solos

5:31

was just growing up, listening to the

5:33

Beatles and doing what George did. As

5:35

a guitar player, if you

5:37

had one or two people to

5:39

pick up from, George Harrison

5:41

would certainly be a good place

5:43

to start if you're starting

5:45

out. It's pretty safe. It's pretty

5:47

safe. Yeah. Okay.

5:49

There you go. Yeah, that was the

5:52

one that surprised me. When you mentioned

5:54

another song, though, it really didn't surprise

5:56

me, but the reasoning for it, I

5:58

think, is pretty cool. And

6:00

I'm talking about

6:02

comfortably numb by Pink

6:05

Floyd, the great David

6:08

Gilmore. Yeah, man. So

6:10

the thing about comfortably

6:13

numb solo is it's

6:15

not that hard to

6:17

play, but it's very

6:19

hard to write. And that's the

6:21

secret. of David Gilmore. I don't

6:24

want to get too far technically

6:26

in the weeds here, but if

6:28

you learn one scale as a

6:30

guitar player, it's the pentatonic scale.

6:33

It's the rock and roll scale.

6:35

A lot of people start with

6:37

it and then maybe branch out

6:39

from there. Gilmore has kind of

6:42

stayed with this pentatonic scale,

6:44

not too difficult, but it's the beauty

6:46

of what he does with it. And

6:49

to me, it sounds like a singer,

6:51

the way he... plays, but almost like

6:53

an opera singer. The way he uses

6:56

vibrato, the way he hangs

6:58

a note and holds it for

7:00

a long time, but then goes

7:02

up even higher when you don't

7:04

expect it. A lot of writing

7:07

a good guitar solo or playing

7:09

one is subverting the expectation of

7:11

what's going to come next. So

7:13

Gilmore, to me, is like a

7:16

master of hanging these long notes

7:18

forever. He kind of reinforces the

7:20

melody, but he kind of goes

7:22

around it too and circles back

7:25

through it. It's very interesting. His

7:27

approach is very interesting. It's

7:29

in his fingers, certainly. His

7:32

vibrato and everything, but... Also,

7:34

he's one of those guys

7:37

where his sound, just the

7:39

sound of his guitar is

7:42

immediately recognizable. Incredibly to me,

7:44

for as recognized and monolithic

7:47

as Pink Floyd are, he's still

7:49

underrated. You know what I mean?

7:52

I don't know if that's just me,

7:54

but... I think that's because, you know,

7:56

when you said the word monolithic,

7:58

Pink Floyd has... become as a

8:01

result of having you know one

8:03

of the world's best-selling albums decade

8:05

in and decade out in Dark

8:08

Side of the Moon they've become

8:10

so ubiquitous that you know you

8:12

every now and again have to

8:15

go back and listen to their

8:17

music and really sit down and

8:19

understand all over again how to

8:22

a man it mattered very much

8:24

every single note that was on

8:26

every single record that they ever

8:29

ever produced you know they are

8:31

so so big and so huge

8:33

that you kind of forget that

8:36

and I think that's probably a

8:38

reason why we would say that

8:40

David Gilmore, of all things, could

8:42

be somewhat underrated just for the

8:45

voice and the taste, you know,

8:47

that he shows on his guitar,

8:49

which is what you're talking about,

8:52

right? Like he's a tasty. He's

8:54

got that taste, you know, that's

8:56

so hard. You can't teach that.

8:59

So that's, I guess, what I'm

9:01

saying when I say... Not too

9:03

difficult to play, but really hard

9:06

to write, because you'd have to

9:08

have his taste. And that is

9:10

really a different, I mean, that's

9:13

a big difference. It sets a

9:15

lot of great bands apart from,

9:17

let's be honest, from average bands,

9:20

is taste, is being tasty and

9:22

knowing what's cool. Gilmore's got such

9:24

a classy sound. It doesn't necessarily

9:27

always beat you over the head.

9:29

That's it. part of why he

9:31

doesn't get mentioned in the same

9:34

way. Let's let's talk about the

9:36

next one now, someone who gets

9:38

mentioned a lot, Jimmy Hendricks. Something

9:41

about the way that Jimmy Hendricks

9:43

approached and attacked his guitar is

9:45

to me, unlike any others. And

9:47

I'm talking about even in league

9:50

with like Peter Green and, you

9:52

know, Eric Clapton and all those

9:54

guys, Jimmy Hendricks. I believe to

9:57

me to my ear he stands

9:59

apart from just about anyone else.

10:01

I think he's probably God's favorite

10:04

guitar. Yeah. Hendrix will beat you

10:06

over the head with a guitar

10:08

solo. Yeah. He's also capable of

10:11

great restraint. But what we think

10:13

of him for is the Pyrotechnics.

10:15

You know, I think a lot

10:18

of people will immediately think Star

10:20

Spangled Banner or something like that.

10:22

I picked Watch Tower, all along

10:25

the Watch Tower, the Bob Dylan

10:27

cover. I

10:30

don't know if there's a

10:32

better cover in rock. I

10:34

just, it's, I'm very hard-pressed

10:36

to think of a better

10:38

cover that that surpassed its

10:40

original by so much that

10:42

Dylan said, you know, once

10:44

he heard Jimmy Hendrick's version,

10:46

his band just kind of

10:49

morphed into playing Jimmy Hendrick

10:51

crazy. And it's my favorite

10:53

rock cover. It sounds like

10:55

Jimmy thought he had one

10:57

chance to show the world.

10:59

everything he could do on

11:01

guitar, and he did it

11:03

in all along the watchtower.

11:05

There's actually three sections for

11:08

him to do solos. Okay.

11:10

And again, I know at

11:12

the risk of getting too

11:14

far into the woods, he

11:16

is naturally a blues guitar

11:18

player. I think most people

11:20

would say, he showcases his

11:22

blues. He showcases his psychedelic

11:24

guitar guitar. cases his ability

11:27

to play Wawa, the way

11:29

I think the inventor of

11:31

the Wawa could only have

11:33

hoped someone would use it

11:35

for. He does octaves on

11:37

the guitar, which is just

11:39

two strings, same note, but

11:41

running up and down the

11:43

fretboard real fast. He does

11:46

bends, incredible string bends, so

11:48

bending from one note up

11:50

to... The next note is

11:52

pretty typical. He does a

11:54

note. in a half. So

11:56

he's going, he's bending his

11:58

strings more than any guitar

12:00

player ever had up until

12:02

then. At one point he

12:05

has a guitar solo pan

12:07

from left to right from

12:09

right to left I mean

12:11

he's literally Maybe not everything

12:13

he can do, but he's

12:15

sort of showing you everything

12:17

he can do not to

12:19

mention Acoustic guitar is what

12:21

powers the whole rhythm of

12:24

the song just pushing that

12:26

thing through so he's showing

12:28

you acoustic blues psych, wah-wah,

12:30

octaves, pens, pans It's a

12:32

master class in what you

12:34

can do with six strings

12:36

in electricity. It's phenomenal. So

12:38

that's why I pick Watchtower.

12:40

You think a Hendrix, guitar

12:42

players especially, will think a

12:44

Hendrix is like, you know,

12:46

he was the first person

12:48

to really figure out how

12:50

to use distortion and use feedback

12:53

as its own part of the

12:55

sound. Yeah. Overton. And so he

12:57

actually, on Watchtower, it's an extremely

12:59

clean sound. that he's using to

13:02

solo on, which is a little

13:04

outside of what he normally does,

13:06

but again, it's in keeping with

13:08

the idea that he was like,

13:11

I got one chance to show

13:13

the world. He wanted to make

13:15

sure you could hear every

13:17

note he played, and sometimes

13:19

distortion has a tendency to

13:21

smear things together. And as

13:23

great as it sounds and

13:26

as effective as it is,

13:28

and I love it. More,

13:30

please. I do know that

13:32

it kind of washes things

13:34

together and a cleaner sound

13:36

really kind of showcases the

13:38

individual notes and I don't

13:40

know if that was purposeful

13:42

on his part, but I

13:44

feel like it was. I

13:46

feel like he really wanted

13:48

you to hear every, the detail

13:51

in every note. So. Yeah, I mean,

13:53

look, I could go on and on

13:55

about Hendrix, so I'm just gonna have

13:57

to stop myself here. Well, one thing

13:59

that I think is... interesting and

14:01

what I think you've outlined

14:03

pretty well talking about this

14:05

particular song from a guitar

14:07

player standpoint is that while

14:09

he has covered off on

14:11

so many bases and and

14:14

as you said you know

14:16

put everything together basically that

14:18

was available to him at

14:20

the time to make to

14:22

make a song to make

14:24

sounds out of you know

14:26

wood string and you know

14:28

plugged into an amplifier it

14:30

doesn't sound like somebody who

14:32

was showing off or putting

14:35

everything into the cake just

14:37

to see if it would

14:39

taste good. There's a point

14:41

to it all and it

14:43

all makes sense. I think

14:45

what we're coming to here

14:47

is that in lesser hands

14:49

than Jimmy Hendrix, and from

14:51

his production mind as well,

14:53

you know, because he was

14:56

a producer too, it would

14:58

not have sounded like that.

15:00

Yeah, that's a great point.

15:02

Yeah, you know, the guitar

15:04

is such an important instrument

15:06

in this genre of music

15:08

in rock and roll. So

15:10

this next one on your

15:12

list, Christian, was kind of

15:14

interesting and important and I

15:17

understand why you said it

15:19

was notable to you to

15:21

talk about. And that is

15:23

Cinnamon Girl by Neil Young.

15:25

You know, Cinnamon Girls, it's

15:27

a slapper. Neil Young is

15:29

known for wailing on one

15:31

note or playing the solo

15:33

on one string. And that

15:35

sounds really boring. But Neil

15:38

has a feel when he

15:40

plays solos. It feels like

15:42

he's getting everything out in

15:44

doing that and in playing

15:46

like that. He inspired a

15:48

lot of people to be

15:50

able to think that they

15:52

could play solos and whether

15:54

they stayed with that style

15:56

or moved on I would

15:58

say you know there's A

16:01

thousand bar bands that started

16:03

because they were like, well,

16:05

I can play Cinnamon Girl.

16:07

Neil Young dropped this. I'm

16:09

gonna just pick up my

16:11

guitar for a second. There's

16:13

a low E and a

16:15

high E. Six strings. Six,

16:17

however you want to number

16:19

it, six and one are

16:22

both E. One is low.

16:24

One is high. Neil Young

16:26

drops both of those. Toons

16:28

and down. to a

16:30

D. It dramatically affects the sound.

16:32

It's a lower beefier sound. You

16:35

can play bar chords, which again

16:37

for guitar players, for non-guitar players,

16:39

that's a chord that you can

16:42

play with basically two fingers. Well

16:44

now when you tune that way,

16:46

you can play it with one.

16:49

It's an approach that was picked

16:51

up by the grunge guys almost

16:53

to a band. Sound Garden, tuned

16:56

down to D. Nirvana, tuned down

16:58

to D. Pearl Jam. You name

17:00

it in the Allison Chains. I

17:02

think they tuned down to C.

17:05

I'm not sure about that, but

17:07

I think that's part of why

17:09

Neely Young was known as the

17:12

Godfather of Grunge. It's the tuning.

17:14

It was dropping his e-string, both

17:16

his e-strings down to D. And

17:19

I'll tell you something, when I

17:21

did that, when I learned that

17:23

that's what he did, the heavens

17:26

opened up. I was like, oh

17:28

my gosh, there it is. It's

17:30

just such a great sound. It

17:33

feels like nothing else. So he

17:35

just changed a lot and he

17:37

did it by kind of simplifying

17:40

everything. So Neil Young, Godfather or

17:42

Grunge. Gibson guitar, martial amp, what

17:44

more do you need? To me,

17:47

what he did, the magic that

17:49

you just described, in particular with

17:51

that song, hits what I like

17:53

to call the reptile brain. It's

17:56

one of the great things about,

17:58

you know, the release of rock

18:00

and roll is unlocking that primordial.

18:03

thing within us from when we

18:05

crawled out of the mud or

18:07

whatever happened, you know, that we

18:10

all got here, you know, popped

18:12

out of a star, whatever it

18:14

is, you know, that we respond

18:17

to when it's done that well.

18:19

And I think Cinnamon Girl is

18:21

a great example of that reptile

18:24

brain getting triggered in a beautiful

18:26

way. You're right? Yeah, I think

18:28

that's one of the most important

18:31

things Rock and Roll does is

18:33

trigger that lizard brain, as you

18:35

say. I'm gonna segue and say,

18:37

speaking of primal, Jimmy Page, Led

18:40

Zeppelin. Oh yeah. I feel like

18:42

Zeppelin kind of, as a whole,

18:44

hits you in that lizard brain.

18:47

They have, you know, going to

18:49

California's and their soft, beautiful moments.

18:51

But I think Jimmy Page. I

18:54

mean, the way he plays to

18:56

me is just confidence. Sure. So

18:58

I went, you know, as far

19:01

as solos again, there's so many,

19:03

stairway, it's absolutely iconic, and it's

19:05

long. And it's got a lot

19:08

of hummable parts. I went with

19:10

something earlier, I went with heartbreaker.

19:16

Amongst guitar players, there is

19:19

some, I won't say who,

19:21

there are some that think

19:23

Jimmy Page is a bit

19:25

sloppy. When you hear the

19:27

solo for heartbreaker, it's very

19:29

hard to deny that case.

19:31

It's, but he charges through

19:33

that thing. If a lesser

19:36

guitar player banged at it

19:38

like he does, it would

19:40

not work. It would sound

19:42

like trash. He turns it

19:44

into moments of Chuck Barry.

19:46

He's another one that loves

19:48

that 50s feel. I don't

19:51

think he ever got over

19:53

his love for what first

19:55

ignited his love for electric

19:57

guitar in the 50s. Some

19:59

of those classic riffs and

20:01

he trained. transforms them into

20:03

hard rock and Into something

20:05

completely unheard before and again

20:08

to some guitar players It's

20:10

not technically very proficient, but

20:12

to me the confidence that

20:14

he plays that with Makes

20:16

it sound like yeah, that's

20:18

how it's supposed to be

20:20

what are you talking about?

20:23

Well, how would it be

20:25

any other way? And like

20:27

why would you clean it

20:29

up? It sounds perfect the

20:31

way it is and That

20:33

you get Jack White. The

20:35

way he approaches it with

20:37

passion and confidence. Again, are

20:40

there guys that graduated from

20:42

Berkeley School of Music that

20:44

play rings around Jack White

20:46

and Jimmy Page? Technically? Probably.

20:48

Do they have the taste

20:50

that we've talked about? No.

20:52

Heartbreaker solo for me is

20:54

absolute belief in what you're

20:57

doing. And that's why I

20:59

made my list. And as

21:01

part of the criteria that

21:03

you sort of set forth

21:05

for this list, it's notable.

21:07

guitar solos that are memorable

21:09

and melodic. And a heart

21:12

breaker is certainly one of

21:14

those. I mean, yeah, there

21:16

are tons of guitar players

21:18

who are very technically proficient

21:20

and who also have taste.

21:22

I would say a guy

21:24

like Steve Lukether, you know,

21:26

from Toto. He could probably

21:29

play anything that you put

21:31

in front of him and

21:33

also have a certain taste,

21:35

you know, to his playing.

21:37

So it's not taken away

21:39

from anything that from those

21:41

guys. that are able to

21:44

do sort of the technical

21:46

stuff too. It's just there's

21:48

a small group who take

21:50

it to another level without

21:52

having all of those little

21:54

technical boxes checked. And I

21:56

think what you're talking about

21:58

with Heartbreaker with Jimmy Page

22:01

and Led Zeppelin completely falls

22:03

into that category. Realizing something

22:05

about your list here Christian,

22:07

you know, Jimmy Page, Neil

22:09

Young, and Cinnamon Girl, Jimmy

22:11

Hendrix, cover of All Along

22:13

the Watchtower, Gilmore, Pink Floyd,

22:16

comfortably numb, and George Harrison,

22:18

in the Beatles Octopus' Garden,

22:20

this is all tasty, blues-based

22:23

rock guitar. You know, and I

22:25

think that that... is foundational for

22:27

so much of what the genre

22:30

of rock and classic rock is.

22:32

You can throw in other guys

22:34

that fall into these categories, Mark

22:36

Noffler, from dire straits. You know,

22:38

obviously we can't talk about guitar

22:40

without talking about the great Joe

22:43

Walsh, who is as tasty as

22:45

they come, but maybe we part

22:47

two this. We have to have

22:49

a part too, because I mean,

22:51

we're talking and I'm thinking, you know,

22:53

we didn't talk about Brian. and Bohemia

22:56

and rap. I mean, come on. You

22:58

know, there's just like, so yeah, definitely

23:00

I see a part too in the

23:02

future. We're off to a good

23:05

start with this anyway. So with

23:07

that, I will say, Christian, thanks

23:09

so much. I'm a fan. You're

23:11

a musician and a fan. So

23:13

I always appreciate your perspective and

23:15

looking at these songs through the

23:17

lens of someone who can play

23:19

every instrument pretty much in the

23:21

genre. So, so thank you for

23:23

that. You're very welcome. It was

23:25

a fun talk. And on the way,

23:27

much more classic rock and roll.