0:00

You know you've got a comeback in

0:02

you. When you take the next

0:04

step, you're going to make it

0:06

count for your career, for your

0:08

family, for your life. You can

0:11

earn a degree you're proud of

0:13

with Purdue Global. Purdue Global is

0:15

backed by Purdue University, one of

0:17

the nation's most respected and innovative

0:20

public universities. This is your chance.

0:22

This is your opportunity. This is

0:24

your comeback. Purdue Global, produce online

0:26

university for working adults. Start your

0:29

comeback today at Purdue Global.EDU. How

0:31

is Microsoft Security helping

0:33

customers stay ahead of 600

0:35

million attacks without slowing down

0:38

business? From automakers to sports

0:40

organizations and digital banks, Microsoft

0:42

Security delivers deeper insights. Scanning

0:45

trillions of signals daily to

0:47

help you see around corners

0:49

and protect your business. Security

0:51

is your job, and it's

0:53

ours too. With Microsoft Security,

0:55

you have a partner that

0:57

helps your business move forward

0:59

confidently. To learn more, visit

1:01

Microsoft.com/CISO. That's Microsoft.com/CISO. Every morning

1:04

brings a fresh new energy.

1:06

And no matter what the

1:08

day holds, we come to the

1:10

Today Show for all of it. We

1:12

get the best start to the day

1:14

because we started together. Watch the Today

1:16

Show weekdays at 7 a.m. on NBC.

1:18

The Black Effect Podcast Festival is

1:20

back. We're partnering with Nissan. So

1:22

pull up to their exclusive lamps

1:24

to get a special look at the

1:27

all-new 2025 Nissan kicks and Nissan Rope.

1:29

The Nissan Row guest is more affordable

1:31

than CRV and Rav4 and features available

1:34

12.3 inch touchscreen display while the all-new

1:36

Nissan kicks holds it down with a

1:38

totally redesigned interior cabin with features like

1:41

available wireless apple car play and available

1:43

panoramic moon roof. Relax and see how

1:45

Nissan is leveling up the game. Come

1:48

kick it. April 26th that Pullman

1:50

yards in Atlanta. Get ready

1:52

for culture, community and good

1:54

conversation. Hi,

2:04

I'm Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother

2:06

of five, an author, journalist, and

2:08

speaker. And I'm Sarah Hart Unger,

2:10

a mother of three, practicing physician,

2:12

writer, and course creator. We are

2:14

two working parents who love our

2:16

careers and our families. Welcome to

2:18

Best of Both Worlds. Here we

2:20

talk about how real women manage

2:22

work, family, and time for fun.

2:24

From figuring out childcare to mapping

2:27

out long-term career goals, we want

2:29

you to get the most out

2:31

of life. Welcome

2:35

to Best of Both Worlds. This

2:37

is Laura. This episode is airing

2:40

in mid-April of 2025. We are

2:42

going to be talking about RTO,

2:44

that is returning to work, five

2:47

years after the pandemic began. A number

2:49

of organizations have started to get people

2:51

back into the office more frequently and

2:53

of several have... issued mandates that people

2:55

be there five days a week, which

2:57

is even different than pre-pandemic, when a

2:59

lot of people had work from home

3:01

Fridays. So, you know, we are going

3:03

to devote this episode to strategies that

3:05

might make life feel better, more doable,

3:07

time in the office, feel more useful,

3:09

if you are working somewhere that has

3:11

started requiring your presence in the office

3:14

a little bit more frequently. Before we

3:16

begin, Sarah, are you ready for a

3:18

little soapbox moment? Yes, I think this

3:20

is an opportune time for a, I

3:22

don't know, trademark Laura Vanderkam, soapbox rant

3:24

segment. And you wrote it, it's really

3:26

eloquent, and I'm gonna let you just

3:28

roll with it. Yes, so my thoughts

3:30

on RTO. I mean, hybrid and remote

3:32

work was honestly one of the best

3:34

and probably the only good thing to

3:36

come out of the pandemic. It's kind

3:38

of ridiculous that we are even doing

3:40

this episode. And I have seen this

3:42

over the years as I have studied

3:44

workplace. I mean, particularly in the pre-covid

3:46

era, when a lot of workplaces, I

3:48

mean, people would tell you like, oh,

3:50

we just can't work from home, it

3:52

might work for other people, but I

3:54

never work for our organization. I mean,

3:56

the truth is, some people in power

3:59

do not like remote work because they

4:01

like to feel powerful and have people

4:03

acting deferential to them in the office

4:05

and being in a space where it

4:07

is very clear that you have a

4:09

bigger and fancier office than other people

4:11

and you have the status and their.

4:13

all these hordes of people working for

4:15

you that you are seeing presiding over

4:17

them like a king over his subjects.

4:19

It has very little to do with

4:21

productivity. I mean people will listen to

4:23

that and then wax eloquent about face-to-face

4:25

work and the wonderful things that happen

4:27

face-to-face and I totally agree like Sarah

4:29

and I love to get together when

4:31

we can. This is the first episode

4:33

in a while that wasn't recorded in

4:35

her closet with us sitting two inches

4:37

from each other sharing a microphone. Like

4:39

it's a lot of fun to do

4:41

things together in person. That said, this

4:44

is not an either or matter because

4:46

40 hours a week in the same

4:48

cubicle with the exact same people can

4:50

totally be overkill. There is much to

4:52

be said for a balance of both

4:54

with people treated as adults and knowledge

4:56

work judged based on outcomes, not time

4:58

in a seat. And yes, that is

5:00

so much harder to manage. I get

5:02

that. I am a person who manages

5:04

people as well. But the upsides are

5:06

great, because there's no reason for people

5:08

to be wasting time and money and

5:10

gas if they are just going to

5:12

email and call other people on a

5:14

particular day. And it's also great for

5:16

organizations to be able to hire people

5:18

from outside a 60-minute radius of the

5:20

office. One more part of this rant,

5:22

which is that if you are working

5:24

somewhere where they have claimed that people

5:27

just can't work from work from home,

5:29

work from home, That doesn't change after

5:31

5 p.m. or before 9 a.m. You

5:33

still can't work from home. So there's

5:35

absolutely no reason really for people to

5:37

have cell phones or laptops or anything

5:39

like that because clearly you can't work

5:41

from home. There is no reason to

5:43

even try to do anything outside the

5:45

office if you cannot work from home.

5:47

So all really you need is a

5:49

single like, I don't know, bat signal

5:51

kind of thing that could summon you

5:53

back to the office so you could

5:55

do work as that's the only place

5:57

work can be done. I mean, that

5:59

means no emails after hours, right? It's

6:01

impossible for people to work from home.

6:03

I mean, that actually might be a

6:05

tradeoff. Some people would choose. But I'm

6:07

saying, I don't think those organizations are

6:09

saying that. I don't think the organizations

6:12

are saying our emails will stop working

6:14

at 5 p.m. Nobody will be able

6:16

to log on before night a.m. because

6:18

you cannot work from outside the office.

6:20

Like, no, they're not saying that. They're

6:22

just saying you have to work in

6:24

the office between whatever 830 and 430,

6:26

whatever the hours are, and we might

6:28

reach you outside that too. Then you

6:30

can work from home. Then it's fine.

6:32

But it's only these set hours. You

6:34

said hours. We want to deal with

6:36

life as it is, not life as

6:38

it should be. So Soapbox, regardless, this

6:40

episode is about how to survive RTO,

6:42

especially if that is a five-day-a-week RTO

6:44

for you. All right, Sarah, I'm done.

6:46

The rest of the episode will be

6:48

all me, since I have lots of

6:50

positive things to say about face-to-face work.

6:52

No, to be fair. I mean... We're

6:54

going to talk about how I do

6:57

actually prefer to do a lot of

6:59

my work outside of the home. I

7:01

do my creative work from home still,

7:03

although honestly if I had a cute

7:05

little office maybe a couple miles away

7:07

I probably might elect to go there

7:09

especially in the afternoons when certain people

7:11

may be descending upon my home making

7:13

it a little bit more difficult to

7:15

concentrate. My house is not that big

7:17

and it gets very loud very quickly.

7:19

So I do my creative work from

7:21

home and I used to do some

7:23

of my graduate medical education work from

7:25

home from home during COVID but then

7:27

pretty much all of my patient care

7:29

work is in person. There was a

7:31

time during COVID that they really sent

7:33

everybody out of the clinical areas and

7:35

I had to do telehealth and I

7:37

learned that I absolutely hate telehealth with

7:40

a fiery passion. Now I don't mind

7:42

doing some telehealth with a fiery passion.

7:44

Now, I don't mind doing some telehealth

7:46

over the course over the course of

7:48

a workday like sometimes a patient lives

7:50

three hours away and I can only

7:52

practice within the state of Florida by

7:54

the way, but doing days of telehealth

7:56

I find ineffective, exhausting, and like basically

7:58

almost torture. I mean that might just

8:00

be a me thing but we're going

8:02

to talk about various benefits of being

8:04

in person but for me it's the

8:06

exhausting aspect of the communication when it's

8:08

not face-to-face that is probably my least

8:10

favorite part. So I'm somebody who kind

8:12

of enjoys a little bit more about

8:14

going somewhere to do my work and

8:16

so I was maybe a little bit

8:18

more easily able to come up with

8:20

some reframings that we will provide for

8:22

you today as well as so that

8:25

we can like appreciate a few of

8:27

the benefits. But that said, I 100%

8:29

wholeheartedly agree with Laura that like the

8:31

idea of the mandate for 100% seems

8:33

so silly and excessive and I am

8:35

thinking of you if that impacts you

8:37

especially if you signed up for a

8:39

situation that didn't look like that feels

8:41

like that feels so unfair to me.

8:43

I do feel like hybrid or like

8:45

a mostly remote situation can be so

8:47

wonderful for many people. So this is

8:49

not to say that I'm like, yeah,

8:51

get your butt back in the seat.

8:53

Yeah, I mean, I totally get that,

8:55

I mean, especially things like patient care,

8:57

it often is good to have the

8:59

picking up on things. But you know,

9:01

like your status meeting for like the

9:03

project that's been going on with for

9:05

six months, I mean, it seems a

9:07

little odd. that the once a week

9:10

check-in would always have to be in

9:12

person, you know, when you see these

9:14

people all the time. There's a good

9:16

balance to be had. But, okay, so

9:18

the positives. One, some people do have

9:20

a split thing where it's easier to

9:22

focus in a place that is primed

9:24

for work focus. Now I will say

9:26

offices are distracting places, but if you

9:28

have structured it right, perhaps it is

9:30

more possible. Yeah, if you've structured it

9:32

right, if you have a door that

9:34

you can close, but also it depends

9:36

on your makeup, right? And some people

9:38

have a harder time focusing than others

9:40

in general, but there is something to

9:42

be said that if you're used to

9:44

being in a particular environment and if

9:46

you're kind of conditioned yourself to like,

9:48

okay. I have my routine, I walk

9:50

through the door, I get my coffee

9:53

at the little office coffee shop, I

9:55

walk upstairs, I put my laptop down,

9:57

and then I like start, like you

9:59

can kind of prime yourself into a

10:01

really nice ritual. I guess that's not

10:03

to say you couldn't do something similar

10:05

at home, but it might be harder

10:07

with like the everyday things kind of

10:09

still, like it's the same environment you're

10:11

going to be in when you're having

10:13

breakfast with the kids, potentially, or relaxing

10:15

after workwork. sort of my brain knows

10:17

to get into gear to like start

10:19

going through patient results when I sit

10:21

down at my work desk. I mean

10:23

for better or for worse could I

10:25

cultivate that somewhere else? Maybe, but I

10:27

think for some people I'm probably not

10:29

the only person who gets a little

10:31

bit of a priming benefit from being

10:33

in a work zone. That's number one

10:35

positive. Yeah. What are another? Okay, so

10:38

this one and I think this one

10:40

I sort of alluded to and as

10:42

one of my... biggest biggest ones is

10:44

just that face-to-face communication is less tiring

10:46

and more enjoyable for most people when

10:48

you're actually doing it in person versus

10:50

on a screen. There are just all

10:52

of these, I think it's actually more

10:54

important when you are explaining something that

10:56

someone doesn't understand or interacting with someone

10:58

that you don't know very well. Like

11:00

I don't really have a problem connecting

11:02

with you on a screen right now,

11:04

but... If I were pitching something or

11:06

I was like trying to get a

11:08

sense of like what you thought, it's

11:10

just so much harder to sort of

11:12

tailor the discussion based on someone else's

11:14

reaction when you're not looking at them.

11:16

It also is just harder for you

11:18

to see if they're understanding. So that

11:20

gets again, like if you're in any

11:23

kind of a job where a lot

11:25

of times you are explaining things to

11:27

people, it gets so weirdly tiring when

11:29

you're trying to do it with this

11:31

like medium in between. So for that

11:33

in person I think it's just more

11:35

pleasant, more relaxing. And one example I'll

11:37

use from my non-clinical life is that

11:39

we used to do these big residency

11:41

recruitment blitzes where we'd like interview batches

11:43

of 12 to 15 applicants at once

11:45

for our residency program and we did

11:47

it in person and then we had

11:49

COVID so we went to Zoom. I

11:51

found it so much more tiring on

11:53

Zoom. to give the speech and to

11:55

smile and to stay engaged and to

11:57

even like gauge these people like it

11:59

was harder to really get an impression

12:01

of anybody through a screen than it

12:03

was in person. Now was it more

12:06

practical for them? Absolutely, but then at

12:08

the on the downside for them they

12:10

weren't able to actually see the place

12:12

where they might spend the next God

12:14

knows how many years of their life

12:16

so I don't know there's pluses and

12:18

minuses but for me that zoom fatigue

12:20

is real and I much prefer the

12:22

efficiency. Yes, it is like their efficiencies

12:24

gain from face-to-face communication. That sounds backwards

12:26

because you're not driving somewhere, but just

12:28

the read on people on the way

12:30

that you can understand each other. All

12:32

right. Let's just quick run through like

12:34

other people being in the home. Yes,

12:36

so that's another huge benefit from my

12:38

perspective is that when I'm at work

12:40

seeing patients, my kids are not at

12:42

work with me seeing patients. So I

12:44

am like really can be in the

12:46

zone. And if I, you know, I

12:48

guess I could get texted by something.

12:51

aren't there. So the opportunity to get

12:53

interrupted, especially if there are half days,

12:55

if there are, you know, you have

12:57

important things to do with that four

12:59

o'clock hour when kids would otherwise be

13:01

arriving home, I much prefer being somewhere

13:03

else if I'm trying to get work

13:05

done. And that also holds true for

13:07

non-kid related home obligations. Like you aren't

13:09

going to be the default package getter

13:11

or repair person because you aren't there.

13:13

You cannot talk to the exterminator because

13:15

you aren't there. Or maybe you and

13:17

your partner now have to negotiate instead

13:19

of you always being the default one

13:21

if you happen to previously have the

13:23

more flexible job. Now I know that

13:25

can actually be logistically problematic. for some

13:27

people because if you don't have anybody

13:29

at home, then it just becomes hard

13:31

to do those things in general. But

13:33

if you do have kids and you

13:36

have someone at home with those kids

13:38

for at least part of the day,

13:40

then sometimes that person can then absorb

13:42

that role that you would have been

13:44

doing if you were there and everybody

13:46

wins. Yeah, I would say, well, even

13:48

if you are working from home, hopefully

13:50

if you have young kids, you have

13:52

somebody caring for them other than you.

13:54

And one of the things of having

13:56

it be a paid payed caregaregiver, a

13:58

paid caregiver, a paid caregiver, make sure they

14:00

get out of the house. That's always been

14:02

one of our job descriptions with our nannies,

14:04

which there's also people I know who have

14:07

talked to who have been trying to work from

14:09

home and their partner is staying home with their

14:11

kids. And that's a much harder one to navigate

14:13

because it's a little bit harder to force your

14:15

partner to get out of the house with the

14:17

kids because they're making their own choices

14:19

about what they're doing as opposed to working

14:22

for you. Okay, well we're going to take a quick

14:24

ad break. And then we're talking a quick ad break.

14:31

Today's episode is brought to you with

14:34

support from Thrive Cosmetics. Whether you're all

14:36

about symbol mascara and gloss, or you love

14:38

to play with bold shapes and colors, there's

14:40

always a trusty favorite brand you use for

14:43

every look. In my case, many my

14:45

very favorite products come from the trusty

14:47

brand Thrive Cosmetics. Thrive Cosmetics has

14:49

cause in the name for a reason.

14:51

For every product purchased, Thrive donates products

14:54

and funds to help communities Thrive Communities

14:56

Thrive, which I love. One of my tried and

14:58

true Thrive Cosmetics favorites is their

15:01

liquid lash extensions mascara. This mascara

15:03

has over 40,000 five-star reviews and I

15:05

can stand behind these as someone who

15:07

is very picky about their mascara.

15:09

Bonus is that it's very easy to remove.

15:11

It just slides right off with warm water

15:13

and a washcloth. Try your new trustee favorites

15:16

with an exclusive set for

15:18

our listeners. New customers can

15:20

get the liquid lash extensions

15:22

mascara. and a mini-sized brilliant

15:24

eye brightener at a special

15:26

set price with free shipping

15:28

available at Thrive Cosmetics.com/ Best of.

15:30

Or save more with 20% off

15:33

your first order at Thrive Cosmetics.com/Best

15:35

of. That's Thrive Cosmetics.

15:37

C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S-S-L-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S

15:45

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

15:47

The message for everyone paying big wireless

15:49

way too much. Please for the love of

15:51

everything good in this world, stop. With Mint

15:53

you can get premium wireless for just $15

15:56

a month. Of course if you enjoy

15:58

overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one

16:00

judgment. Anyway, give it a try

16:02

at MintMobile.com/switch. Up front payment of

16:05

$45 for three-month plan equivalent to

16:07

$15 per month required. Intro rate

16:10

for three months only. Then full-price

16:12

plan options available. Taxes and fees

16:14

extra. See full terms at MintMobile.com.

16:17

Trust isn't just earned. It's demanded.

16:19

Whether you're a startup founder navigating

16:21

your first audit or a seasoned

16:24

security professional scaling your GRC program,

16:26

proving your commitment to security has

16:28

never been more critical or more

16:31

complex. That's where Vanta comes in.

16:33

Businesses use Vanta to establish trust

16:35

by automating compliance needs over 35

16:38

frameworks, like SOC 2, and ISO

16:40

2701. Centralized security workflows, complete questionnaires

16:42

up to five times faster, and

16:45

proactively manage vendor risk. Vanta can

16:47

help you start or scale your

16:49

security program by connecting you with

16:52

auditors and experts to conduct your

16:54

audit, and set up your security

16:56

program quickly. Plus, with automation and

16:59

AI throughout the platform, Vanta gives

17:01

you time back, so you can

17:03

focus on building your company. Join

17:06

over 9,000 global companies like Atlacian,

17:08

Quora, and Factory, who use Vanta

17:11

to manage risk and prove security

17:13

in real time. For a limited

17:15

time, our audience gets $1,000 off

17:18

Vanta. At VANTA.com/special. That's VANTA.com/special for

17:20

$1,000 off. What are some ways

17:22

that Microsoft Security is helping customers

17:25

stay ahead of 600 million attacks

17:27

without slowing down business? For sports

17:29

organizations, it means letting fans share

17:31

in the action, without sharing sensitive information.

17:34

For automakers, it means driving change and

17:36

securely innovating their development process. And for

17:38

digital banks, it means staying ahead. and

17:41

keeping up with evolving cyber attacks. Microsoft

17:43

Security equips you with deeper insights to

17:45

help you pinpoint vulnerabilities, see around corners,

17:48

and innovate confidently. We scan trillions of

17:50

signals daily, giving you the guidance, expertise,

17:52

and tools to protect. Protect your business

17:55

without sacrificing speed for safety. Security is

17:57

your job, and it's also ours. With

17:59

Microsoft Security, you have a partner that

18:02

looks deeper, keeps you ahead, and helps

18:04

your business move forward securely. To learn

18:06

more, visit Microsoft.com/CISO. That's Microsoft.com/CISO. So real

18:09

quick, Sarah, office culture is potentially a

18:11

positive for people being back in more

18:13

of a face-to-face environment. Yeah, one thing

18:16

that I enjoy about going to work

18:18

in a physical location is that office

18:20

culture grows naturally that way. And I've

18:23

been in my office for 12 years

18:25

now and consider lots of the people

18:27

that I work with to be real

18:30

friends. So it can be fun to

18:32

celebrate a birthday, a holiday, or just

18:34

even chat for a few minutes. Plus

18:37

there's a side benefit of the casual

18:39

work that might be a... easy to

18:41

kind of fit in on the fly.

18:44

I have colleagues that will walk into

18:46

each other's office and be like, I

18:48

got these set of laughs on a

18:51

patient, they don't totally make sense to

18:53

me, let's, can we talk about it?

18:55

And yes, that could happen. You could

18:58

kind of like text someone and see

19:00

if they wanted to call you or

19:02

face time you, but it might be

19:05

less likely to happen with that person

19:07

not being accessible like that. Yeah, although

19:09

I would say you're not in the

19:12

office five days of work. that are

19:14

best done together in person, that casual

19:16

back and forth banter. And then there's

19:19

other kinds that casual back and forth

19:21

banter is taking you away from doing,

19:23

right? There's certain sort of heads down

19:26

concentration kind of work that is quite

19:28

difficult to do if people are bopping

19:30

by being like, what do you think

19:32

of this? And if that's less likely

19:35

to happen, that can be a benefit

19:37

for that sorts of work. So again,

19:39

this is why hybrid work tends to

19:42

be the best option then with some

19:44

guidelines around it, but mostly be. people

19:46

being treated as adults. But yet, those

19:49

are some things that think about possibly

19:51

ways to reframe this, but we had

19:53

a few sort of survival tactics to

19:56

talk about as well. One is if

19:58

you do suddenly have a longer commute

20:00

that you were having to do more

20:03

frequently, try to think of this as

20:05

me time. Like yes, commuting is often

20:07

boring, stressful, but it's too much time

20:10

to completely write off in your life.

20:12

So as you are planning your weeks.

20:14

Plan your commutes, right? Actually, think of

20:17

this time. Think of what you will

20:19

do during this time. For a lot

20:21

of people, that's things like listening to

20:24

audio books. So make sure that your

20:26

audio books are packed. You've chosen well

20:28

for the week. You're excited about what

20:31

you're going to listen to. Or maybe

20:33

you've chosen an album to listen to.

20:35

Or Tuesday morning. Listen to before breakfast,

20:38

your commute is probably not that short.

20:40

It's like four minutes. But on Wednesdays,

20:42

I do an interview that's a little

20:45

closer to 30 minutes. So you could

20:47

listen to that. So we figured out

20:49

three other days already. Three mornings you've

20:52

got something. But you know, it can

20:54

also be a rev up or decompression

20:56

time, right, Sarah? Oh, totally. I, for

20:59

me, that's. an enormous benefit. I usually

21:01

do, lately I've been doing music in

21:03

the morning and then podcast in the

21:06

afternoon, and I've done it actually either

21:08

direction, I kind of like to mix

21:10

it up, but my kids usually want

21:13

to play various of their music in

21:15

the morning, and then I sort of

21:17

pivot to my music once I've dropped

21:20

off the last kid on the way

21:22

to the office, and then I sort

21:24

of pivot to my music once I've

21:27

dropped off the last kid on the

21:29

way to the office. And then I

21:31

have someone who would say I even

21:34

hate my music in the morning. what

21:36

makes a commute bad is a big

21:38

unpredictability aspect because you're like always hoping

21:41

it's going to be pretty good but

21:43

if you can engineer a commute that's

21:45

at least even if it's not that

21:48

short if it's fairly predictable obviously people

21:50

don't have control over that but you

21:52

can just see it as like all

21:55

right I got 30 minutes I'm hanging

21:57

out in the car I can either

21:59

call someone or I can listen to

22:02

something, but like, I don't really have

22:04

anything else to do. I can't really

22:06

do anything else productive, so I might as

22:08

well enjoy it. Yeah. A commute can

22:11

also be social time. I mean, probably

22:13

not every day, but carpooling never really

22:15

caught on as a big hit because

22:17

people value the flexibility of having their

22:19

own vehicle, but there might be some

22:22

people that you like enough to forego

22:24

that flexibility just on occasion. So

22:26

commuting with a friend once every two

22:28

weeks, like if you work anywhere near a

22:31

friend of yours, that could be an amazing

22:33

way to build in some time together, or

22:35

maybe it's with your spouse once a week

22:37

or so. Even if it's like 10 minutes

22:39

outside your normal drive, it might be

22:41

worth it to you, an extra 20

22:44

minutes in order to spend like that

22:46

extra 90 minutes therein back with your

22:48

spouse once a week. It might be as

22:50

much time as you guys get together as

22:52

you guys get together if you have young

22:54

kids and a busy life. Yeah, it's funny

22:56

when I, when Josh first started working

22:59

at the same health system I did,

23:01

I was like, oh, we'll go to

23:03

work together. That's happened zero times. Because

23:05

he doesn't actually work at the same

23:08

hospital that I do. There's really no

23:10

opportunity for that. But it would

23:12

have been cute if it had worked

23:14

out. It would have been cute. Another

23:17

sort of survival strategy, mentally at least,

23:19

is to quote a certain Sarah Hart Unger,

23:21

make it worth the commute, right Sarah? Because

23:23

you may have to go in, but just

23:25

for your own sanity, make sure there is

23:27

at least something you are doing when you

23:29

are in the office that would have been

23:31

hard to do remotely. In many cases,

23:34

that is something that is social. So

23:36

try to start a regular lunch group,

23:38

maybe plug into or start your

23:40

own employee resource group. Maybe it's a

23:42

mentoring program or a mentoring connection that

23:44

you are committing to mentor someone once

23:46

a week or so, so you know

23:48

you're going in to talk with them.

23:51

But something that makes it very clear why

23:53

you are doing this because yeah if you have

23:55

a day where you're just emailing and calling

23:57

people in other places it will feel

24:00

very tedious and we would like to

24:02

avoid that if possible. Yes. Now the

24:04

next thing would be boundaries. Kind of

24:06

as we implied in the very beginning,

24:08

if you can't work from home then,

24:10

that gives you the leeway to say

24:12

you're not going to work from home.

24:14

No, we're kidding. We're being tongue-in-cheek about

24:16

that aspect of it, but sometimes it

24:18

can. kind of promote a little bit

24:20

of a natural separation and I will

24:22

say for myself I struggle much more

24:24

with kind of shutting down on days

24:26

that I'm working for myself at home

24:28

versus days that I'm driving home and

24:30

I'm driving home it's like very very

24:32

obvious like I was at work and

24:34

now I'm done with work and I

24:36

don't generally take home clinical work unless

24:38

it's a call week or something like

24:40

that so if you are someone who

24:43

struggles with the boundaries maybe you could

24:45

reframe as like this will help me

24:47

to set clearer boundaries doing very specific

24:49

split shifts at certain times if work

24:51

necessitates it. Yeah, because one of the

24:53

things that I definitely found studying people's

24:55

schedules in the pre-covid era, people worry

24:57

with a long commute that if you

24:59

have young kids who go to bed

25:01

relatively early, you will have very limited

25:03

time with them on weekday evenings. You

25:05

might have time with them on weekends.

25:07

But the weekday evening, if you have

25:09

a child who goes to bed at

25:11

like 7 or 730 and you're not

25:13

home from your commute until 630, it

25:15

sort of limits the evening. Again, my

25:17

children never did this. I would read

25:19

about people doing this. I'm like, oh,

25:21

that sounds rough. Like, my child has

25:23

never gone to bed at 730 p.m.

25:25

Then you might consider working a split

25:27

shift. which is that you get out

25:30

of your office as soon as humanly

25:32

possible. I don't know, try to end

25:34

at 4.35 Max, but start the commute

25:36

then, get home, have a longer evening

25:38

with your family, and then do a

25:40

little bit of work at night after

25:42

the kids went to bed. Because I'm

25:44

probably believing in a lot of these

25:46

jobs you actually can work from home,

25:48

it's just that you're not supposed to.

25:50

but if you're doing it at nine

25:52

o'clock at night people will probably be

25:54

fine with it. Yeah and we've talked

25:56

about this before but usually you want

25:58

that work from home to be doing

26:00

a specific project getting a discrete thing

26:02

done versus like I'm just gonna like

26:04

go into my email and like browse

26:06

around a little bit. Yeah you are

26:08

not going to get through a 1000

26:10

email backlog from nine to ten at

26:12

night like so don't try like they

26:15

make yourself a to-do list for this

26:17

split second shift saying okay these are

26:19

the three things I... did not finish

26:21

before I left the office today, and

26:23

do in fact have to do before

26:25

tomorrow. So maybe preparing for a meeting,

26:27

sending two responses to email, and whatever,

26:29

something else you had to do. That's

26:31

a more reasonable thing to do. We

26:33

want to be intentional about breaks, right,

26:35

Sarah? Yeah, and I think this is

26:37

particularly important when you're out of work

26:39

because it might require a little bit

26:41

of preparation. So maybe it means asking

26:43

a friend to go out to lunch

26:45

with you once a week. Maybe that

26:47

means bringing a book so you can

26:49

spend your lunch time doing that or

26:51

bringing comfortable shoes. You can take a

26:53

walk during lunch, but most work days

26:55

are not going to be like you

26:57

doing intense work from the minute you

27:00

get there until the minute you clock

27:02

out. whether you actually clock out or

27:04

not, but you know what I mean.

27:06

And so it makes sense to actually

27:08

think about how you might want to

27:10

spend those breaks well rather than just

27:12

kind of letting them happen in default

27:14

activity, probably scrolling, not going to be

27:16

that thrilling. Yeah, especially if you do

27:18

need to leave early for your commute

27:20

and in winter you're somewhere that the

27:22

commute will get you home after the

27:24

sun has gone down. you probably want

27:26

to arrange to see the sky in

27:28

the course of your workday. So take

27:30

some sort of break where you get

27:32

outside, whether that's to grab coffee at

27:34

a local coffee shop, just to go

27:36

for a 10-minute walk somewhere, if you

27:38

go out for lunch, or just invent

27:40

a reason to go outside. Like you

27:42

don't actually need one. The Gen Z's

27:45

are all touch grass. We're like, no,

27:47

see the sky. See the sky. Okay,

27:49

well, you could touch the grass and

27:51

see the grass and see the sky,

27:53

I don't. I don't know. I don't

27:55

know. but the sky you might be

27:57

able to still see so I totally

27:59

I like it totally And you want

28:01

to also want to make sure that

28:03

you've planned in time for your personal

28:05

to do's because these things don't stop

28:07

just because you are working in an

28:09

office and you probably feel a little

28:11

bit, you know, there's some things that

28:14

will be harder to do if you are

28:16

in an office as opposed to in a

28:18

home office in terms of managing life

28:20

administration and such that has

28:22

to happen. So you might need to

28:24

strategically plan in a personal day every

28:27

so often. to take care of anything that

28:29

is hard to make happen. Agree, I

28:31

used to do a lot of that, because

28:33

there's certain things that just have to

28:35

be business hours, and certain things where

28:37

it has to be you, like going

28:40

to your own doctor's appointment or getting

28:42

your passport renewed, like you cannot outsource

28:44

those things, even if you'd like to,

28:46

so I would strategically have like a

28:48

full day off every couple of months

28:50

or so and try to batch things, because

28:52

it's true, you won't have that

28:55

flexibility, Exactly. We're going to

28:57

take one more quick ad break and

28:59

then we'll be back with a little

29:01

bit more about RTO. What

29:03

are some ways that Microsoft

29:05

Security is helping customers stay

29:07

ahead of 600 million attacks

29:10

without slowing down business? For

29:12

sports organizations, it means letting

29:14

fans share in the action

29:17

without sharing sensitive information. For

29:19

automakers, it means driving change and

29:22

securely innovating their development process.

29:24

And for digital banks, it

29:26

means staying ahead and keeping

29:28

up with evolving cyber attacks.

29:30

Microsoft Security equips you with

29:33

deeper insights to help you

29:35

pinpoint vulnerabilities, see around corners,

29:37

and innovate confidently. We scan

29:39

trillions of signals daily, giving you

29:42

the guidance, expertise, and tools to

29:44

protect your business without sacrificing speed

29:46

for safety. Security is your

29:48

job, and it's also ours. With

29:51

Microsoft Security, you have a partner

29:53

that looks deeper, keeps you ahead.

29:55

and helps your business move forward

29:57

securely. To learn more, visit Microsoft.com/CSO.

30:00

That's Microsoft.com/seeso. Hey listeners, I'm on

30:02

the go a lot this spring,

30:04

both for work and with my

30:06

family. Vacation season is nearly upon

30:08

us, and this year, I'm treating

30:10

myself to some luxurious upgrades, with

30:12

Quince's high-quality travel essentials at fair

30:15

prices. Quince has all sorts of

30:17

amazing items, like lightweight shirts and

30:19

shorts from $30, and comfortable lounge

30:21

sets, for feeling good on long

30:23

flights. They've also got premium luggage

30:25

options and durable duffel bags to

30:27

carry it all. The best part?

30:30

All Quince items are priced 50

30:32

to 80% less than similar brands.

30:34

By partnering directly with top factories,

30:36

Quince cuts out the cost of

30:38

the middleman and passes the savings

30:40

on to us. And Quince only

30:42

works with factories that use safe,

30:44

ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. And

30:47

premium fabrics and finishes and finishes

30:49

fabrics and finishes and finishes fabrics

30:51

and finishes fabrics and finishes fabrics

30:53

and finishes fabrics and finishes fabrics

30:55

and finishes fabrics and finishes fabrics

30:57

and finishes fabrics and finishes fabrics

30:59

fabrics and finishes fabrics and finishes

31:01

fabrics and finishes fabrics and finishes

31:04

fabrics and finishes fabrics and finishes

31:06

fabrics and finishes fabrics and finishes

31:08

fabrics and finishes fabrics I'm also

31:10

loving my pink Mongolian Kashmir t-shirt

31:12

that I'll be sporting for in-between

31:14

weather this spring and my quince

31:16

dress black pants for fancier occasions.

31:19

For your next trip treat yourself

31:21

to the Lux upgrades you deserve

31:23

from Quince. Go to quince.com/best for

31:25

365 day returns plus free shipping

31:27

on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/best to

31:29

get free shipping. and 365 day

31:31

returns. Quinns.com/best. What's good, fam? The

31:33

Black Effect Podcast Festival is back

31:36

and taking over Pullman Yards in

31:38

Atlanta on Saturday, April 26th. And

31:40

it's gonna be a whole vibe.

31:42

Doors open at 11 a.m. So

31:44

you already know it's an all-day

31:46

celebration of Black Excellence. And we're

31:48

partnering with Nissan to bring you

31:51

an event you won't want to

31:53

miss. Because it's all going down

31:55

in the Nissan lounge. If you

31:57

haven't seen the all-new 2025 Nissan

31:59

kickson kicks or the Nissan rogue

32:01

yet. This is your moment. From

32:03

available Intelligent Around View Monitor to

32:05

available... Bo's personal plus sound system.

32:08

The all-new Nissan Kicks is ready,

32:10

whether you're cruising through the city

32:12

or hitting the highway. The Nissan

32:14

Road guest is more affordable than

32:16

CRV and Rav4, with available HD

32:18

enhanced intelligent around-view monitor with moving

32:20

object detection and a standard VC

32:23

turbo engine. So pull up to

32:25

the Nissan lounge to explore their

32:27

cutting-edge features, snap some epic picks,

32:29

and see which ride matches your

32:31

energy. Music, love, culture, and community,

32:33

all in one place. So come

32:35

through. Show out and make some

32:37

memories. Tickets are on sale now

32:40

at Blackeffect.com/podcast festival. We're leaving today

32:42

and entering the world of Cinderella

32:44

Castle sightseeing. Trawn, light cycling, tungal

32:46

cruise punning, pirate swash buckling, Everest

32:48

climbing, daportining, soaring, soaring, soaring, soaring,

32:50

firework show up, on the cried,

32:52

you're crying. World of favorites for

32:55

whatever you love infinite worlds await

32:57

at the most magical place on

32:59

earth Walt Disney World Resort Well

33:01

we are back talking all things

33:03

RTO returning to the office especially

33:05

for people who are in a

33:07

situation where you now need to

33:09

be in your workplace in person

33:12

five days a week, which as

33:14

we discussed earlier, is probably overkill,

33:16

but we are dealing with life

33:18

as it is, not as we

33:20

wish it would be. The key

33:22

thing to think about is that

33:24

if you are no longer at

33:27

home during the day, you may

33:29

need to account for presence, like

33:31

somebody being there at various points,

33:33

that you may have taken for

33:35

granted that that was you at

33:37

previous points, but now you're going

33:39

to have to figure out how

33:41

that's going to work. So packages

33:44

that might not to be signed

33:46

for, like that's not going to

33:48

work. your dog. You can't walk

33:50

the dog as a break if

33:52

you are not there. Meeting contractors,

33:54

which again is a massive time-suck

33:56

if you are working from home.

33:58

but you may have been the

34:01

one who did it if like

34:03

there was a sudden leak that

34:05

happened in your household or emergency

34:07

child care stuff if you and

34:09

your partner are both working an

34:12

hour away from your kids school

34:14

you need to figure out who

34:16

and how somebody gets there if

34:18

there's someone who is like vomiting

34:21

profusely what goes on you

34:23

know? I mean, I feel like some schools

34:25

are just going to have to wait

34:27

an hour because realistically parents are going

34:29

to work and if parents are required

34:31

to work at their workplaces, like, that's hard

34:34

to have everybody have a backup person

34:36

in case their kid happen to get

34:38

sick in the middle of the day

34:40

and they're too far away. School? Deal with

34:42

it. Yeah, I know. So if you have

34:44

family living beer by, that could be yet another

34:46

thing you ask them to help with if

34:48

that happens or having a network

34:50

of... babysitters or something that some people

34:53

have during the day availability again just as

34:55

an option or you know and kids get

34:57

sick too and if you cannot work from

34:59

home that would require you to take

35:01

a sick day yourself which seems very

35:03

inefficient from the point of view of the

35:05

organization but I'm not sure how they're dealing

35:08

with that if they're not allowing people to

35:10

work from home I guess you're just not

35:12

allowed to have sick children I

35:14

don't know. Oh my goodness my hope

35:17

is that in instances like that or

35:19

Because that's an interesting question. Like let's

35:21

say there is a hurricane warning and

35:24

everyone's home, but there's no hurricane yet.

35:26

Would the company rather make everyone

35:28

take PL and have nothing get accomplished

35:30

that day? Or were they rather on

35:33

specific occasions, let them work from home?

35:35

Oh my goodness. I don't know. Yeah. I'm

35:37

pretty sure that it is possible to

35:39

work from home. Like this idea that

35:42

you can't, yeah, there's a giant snowstorm.

35:44

Like people, of course you'd rather have

35:46

people work from home than lose a

35:49

week of productivity, but yes, I think

35:51

it's a very short-sided idea, but whatever,

35:53

we do feel for people who are

35:55

dealing with this, this situation. We

35:57

do. This is hard. We're thinking of you.

36:00

and we were trying to offer some good,

36:02

we're trying to keep your spirits up

36:04

and give you some ideas. And there

36:06

is always, I did mention here also

36:08

that keep kicking butt at your job

36:10

because the more awesome you are and

36:12

the more valuable you are, you never

36:14

know, maybe you could start by negotiating

36:16

away some of this requirement. If they

36:18

really, really need you badly enough, I

36:20

guess it depends on the company culture,

36:22

but maybe you would have some wiggle

36:24

room there. Yeah, or even if the

36:26

company culture is the expectation, you're there,

36:28

if it's not truly centrally enforced, then

36:30

your manager may be like, whatever. Like,

36:32

I know she's going to get her

36:34

work done. And you can always go

36:36

look for another job, because there are

36:38

still plenty of places that treat people

36:41

like adults and say, you know, you

36:43

can work in the office a certain

36:45

number of days, you can work from

36:47

home as you decide is necessary, and

36:49

we look forward to seeing that more

36:51

people want to work there than work

36:53

elsewhere. I can't believe we were able

36:55

to record this episode remotely Laura. You

36:57

know how is that even possible Sarah?

36:59

It's like how could this business exist

37:01

if people can't work from home? All

37:03

right well we'll get to our Q&A.

37:05

All right so Sarah sent me a

37:07

two-part question I think we're just going

37:09

to do the second part because that

37:11

was the it's a multi-part question okay

37:13

so she says we're looking at this

37:15

is a family with two looking at

37:17

three children. We are looking at moving

37:19

closer to extended family in a couple

37:21

years right when our oldest child is

37:23

getting close to kindergarten age. I understand

37:25

schools should be a major factor in

37:27

where exactly to buy a house, but

37:29

how does one actually figure out which

37:32

are the good schools? I am told

37:34

the best way is to talk to

37:36

parents there, but since we currently live

37:38

out of state, that seems tricky. Any

37:40

tips on evaluating quality of schools. projecting

37:42

forward to see what middle or high

37:44

school options kids might have and where

37:46

a school district is headed over the

37:48

next 15 years? Am I vastly overthinking

37:50

of this? But I don't want to

37:52

get stuck either moving or paying three

37:54

private school tuitions. Any tips about what

37:56

to think about in general and planning

37:58

to settle in a larger metropolitan area

38:00

as they work? parent. Okay, Sarah. Well,

38:02

I think it's a good thing to

38:04

think about. I don't, I wouldn't put

38:06

this under the category of overthinking or

38:08

anything like that, although the idea they're

38:10

gonna know exactly what the schools are

38:12

gonna look like in 15 years. Yeah,

38:14

we probably can't help too much with

38:16

that piece, but I think it is

38:18

worth asking around. Like, you can do

38:20

a lot online sleuthing, like find out

38:22

if there are bulletin boards for that.

38:25

community on Facebook or what's up or

38:27

whatever and or on read it actually

38:29

I've seen this kind of thing as

38:31

then you can just sort of say

38:33

I'm thinking about moving to blah blah

38:35

blah city like what are the most

38:37

awesome school districts are are you really

38:39

happy in one of the school districts

38:41

and you'll start to see patterns most

38:43

likely all this said of course like

38:45

your kid's success is probably gonna have

38:47

a lot more to do with the

38:49

kid than the specific school that they

38:51

go to and I will give you

38:53

the disclaimer that we move to our

38:55

area three private school tuitions partly just

38:57

because the needs of our kids were

38:59

a little bit different than we had

39:01

anticipated and it turned out the fit

39:03

was the best and since we could

39:05

do it we just went in that

39:07

direction but no regrets because a area

39:09

that has really good school districts tends

39:11

to have a lot of kids and

39:13

a big kind of kid culture which

39:15

means lots of activities and playgrounds and

39:18

community events and stuff like that. So

39:20

all those things tend to track together

39:22

and I would do the best you

39:24

can to get some people to kind

39:26

of share. Yeah, a real estate agent

39:28

also might know. Yeah, yeah, no, that's

39:30

true. Where would you suggest in this

39:32

area we look if we really value

39:34

having good public schools? Yeah, we moved

39:36

to this area, you know, I'm in

39:38

the Lower Marian Township in Pennsylvania, a

39:40

lot because we had heard the public

39:42

schools were very good here, and I

39:44

think they are. If you went to

39:46

a selective college, you've probably met people

39:48

from the various high schools in this

39:50

area. And so you might also look

39:52

around, like do you hear about the

39:54

high schools in that area in like

39:56

state competitions, in national competitions? Do people

39:58

mention the area? as being higher priced

40:00

because of the schools, right? Like you

40:02

will see that in real estate ads,

40:04

like they'll say, like this is in

40:07

this district, in the first line in

40:09

the real estate ads. Economics are funny

40:11

that way, because she says she doesn't

40:13

want to pay three private school tuitions.

40:15

You may wind up having that baked into

40:17

your house price if you choose a

40:19

very good public school district. You are

40:21

kind of paying the tuition in

40:23

the form of your granite countertops,

40:26

but. That's just kind of the

40:28

way economics works, right? But just

40:30

other things to look at, have the

40:32

teachers been there forever? That might

40:34

be something you could sleuth out.

40:37

Because if very few teachers

40:39

are quitting that neighborhood elementary

40:41

school, that might be something

40:43

that suggests it's a pretty

40:45

good place to work when

40:47

people love to work somewhere.

40:49

That generally means it's pretty

40:51

good. All right, well, linking this

40:54

to our earlier segment though. I would

40:56

say like patient care, education is

40:58

something that probably doesn't work as

41:00

well virtually. I've had several kids

41:02

do online classes and it definitely

41:05

can work for older kids, especially

41:07

for subjects that you wouldn't be able

41:09

to get otherwise. I think for things

41:11

like six-year-olds, not so good with

41:14

remote work. Definitely was not

41:16

successful in our house than to tell

41:18

you. I mean, we did that experiment in

41:20

2020. Yeah, like adults who are doing

41:22

something versus six-year-olds and what they are

41:24

capable of managing in terms of their

41:27

own time attention and so forth. So,

41:29

you know, there's something we shouldn't have

41:31

offices that are treating people like six-year-olds,

41:34

but I digress. Look for places

41:36

that teachers love teaching. Look for places

41:38

where it's mentioned in the real estate

41:40

ads. Look for the high schools

41:42

being mentioned in competitions in competitions

41:45

and competitions and competitions.

41:47

And yeah. Just always keep an open mind

41:49

though, because even the best school district, it

41:52

might not work for your own kid for one

41:54

reason or the other. And it might be so much

41:56

cheaper to live somewhere that doesn't have good

41:58

schools at the private school. payment question

42:00

is a wash and also depending on

42:02

what state you are in there are

42:04

different vouchers and all sorts of things

42:06

we could get into so that are

42:09

a little bit too political for this

42:11

podcast but they happen to exist in

42:13

various places no matter what we do

42:15

think of them yeah all right moving

42:17

on I think that was enough but

42:19

love on the week all right Sarah

42:21

yours is a new love Yeah, I

42:24

mean I've always loved it, but not

42:26

really used it. So decaf coffee, just

42:28

so glad it exists because I'm not

42:30

fully on decaf, but like, I feel

42:32

like I'm somewhat sensitive to caffeine right

42:34

now, but I can still have coffee

42:36

and I can have like a little

42:38

bit of caffeine and like modulate that

42:41

based on the ratio of caffeine, so

42:43

I'm just like very happy. And I

42:45

can go to Starbucks and get decaf

42:47

capachinos and stuff and this is good.

42:49

Yeah, that it actually existsists. Because I

42:51

don't like really like tea that much

42:53

so it's good to have. How do

42:55

they decafenate coffee? I don't know it's

42:58

Swiss, but it always says Swiss process.

43:00

I'm like I don't know what that

43:02

process is but those Swiss have figured

43:04

it out. Somehow it takes out the

43:06

the caffeine or you could have places

43:08

that just add caffeine for no real

43:10

reason just to make their drinks, their

43:12

juices more addictive. That's exciting too. So

43:15

I'm going to say that I'm going

43:17

to. I'm so not fancy. But the

43:19

seltzer water, because I've gotten to that

43:21

as my evening drink of choice, it

43:23

is probably better than having a craft

43:25

beer in general, and yet you still

43:27

want something that's a little special and

43:29

bubbly, not juice or coke or anything

43:32

like that. So drinking a lot of

43:34

parier right now. I feel like parier

43:36

is like, like, I drink a lot

43:38

of liqueuroy, but parier is classier. Yeah.

43:40

I think that's cool. Some of my

43:42

children have, you know, we get the

43:44

lachroi too, that, you know, I kind

43:46

of think of the pariahs as mine,

43:49

and the lachroa is for the kids,

43:51

but then I have one or two

43:53

kids who see me drinking the parion,

43:55

they want the pariah, and then they

43:57

take like two steps and check the

43:59

cannon. me so, so unhappy. It is

44:01

sad. Why? Why did you do that? All

44:04

right, well this has been best of

44:06

both worlds. We've been talking

44:08

return to office strategies, ways

44:10

of thinking about it, strategies

44:12

for making the most of

44:14

your day, for not losing

44:16

your sanity over the commute.

44:18

We will be back next

44:21

week with more on making work

44:23

and life fit together. Thanks

44:26

for listening. You can find

44:28

me, Sarah, at the shoebox.com,

44:30

or at the underscore shoebox

44:32

on Instagram. And you can

44:34

find me, Laura, at Lauravandercam.com.

44:36

This has been the best

44:38

of both worlds' podcast. Please

44:41

join us next time for

44:43

more on making work and

44:45

life work together. Bring

45:00

Spring to your door with Target

45:02

Circle 360! Get all you need

45:04

for Easter hosting. Spring get-togethers and

45:06

more with unlimited same-day delivery through

45:08

Target Circle 360. From Easter basket

45:10

goodies to fresh florals, getting everything

45:13

the same day is easy. Open

45:15

the Target app and bring the

45:17

magic of the season to your

45:19

door with unlimited same-day delivery through

45:21

Target Circle 360. Visit Target.com/circle or

45:23

the target app for more details.

45:26

subscription app for more details. Subscription

45:28

app for more details. How is Microsoft

45:30

Security helping customers stay ahead

45:32

of 600 million attacks without

45:34

slowing down business? From automakers

45:37

to sports organizations and digital

45:39

banks, Microsoft Security delivers deeper

45:41

insights, scanning trillions of signals

45:43

daily to help you see

45:45

around corners and protect your

45:48

business? Security is your job, and

45:50

it's ours too. With Microsoft Security,

45:52

you have a partner that helps

45:55

your business move forward confidently. To

45:57

learn more, visit Microsoft.com. That's Microsoft.com.

45:59

slash CISO. Behind every successful business

46:02

is a vision. Bringing it to

46:04

life takes more than effort. It

46:06

takes the right financial foundation and

46:08

support. That's where Chase for business

46:11

comes in. With convenient digital tools,

46:13

helpful resources, and personalized guidance, we

46:15

can help your business forge ahead

46:18

confidently. Learn more at chase.com, backslash

46:20

business. Chase for business. Make more

46:22

of what's yours. The Chase Mobile

46:24

App is available for Select Mobile

46:27

Devices. Message and data rates may

46:29

apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank, N.A.

46:31

Member FDIC, copyright 2025, JP Morgan

46:33

Chasing Company. Millions of people have

46:36

turned to Claude, the AI assistant

46:38

from Anthropic, because it just feels

46:40

different. Where other AIs often sound

46:42

a little robotic, Claude has been

46:45

designed with special research that informs

46:47

its character, meaning that Claude just

46:49

gets it when it comes to

46:51

empathy and emotional intelligence. That's why

46:54

Clod has become the if-you-know-you-know choice

46:56

for dating advice, career coaching, gathering

46:58

your thoughts for those important life

47:00

decisions, and more. Give Clod a

47:03

try for free at clod.com. That's

47:05

C-L-A-U-D-E.com and let us know how

47:07

you feel the difference.