0:00

think taking responsibility for your whole self

0:02

is a really important first step

0:04

to growth. And it's just accepting that

0:06

it's all part of you. Without

0:08

judgment, you know, you can still loving

0:10

kindness with yourself, but not disavowing

0:12

some parts that you don't like, because

0:14

that actually leads to a victim

0:16

mindset often. We don't blame others for

0:18

the good things about ourselves, do

0:20

we? Do we say, oh, I'm so

0:22

talented. That's all because my mom. No,

0:24

we say, I'm talented. So humans

0:27

are so weird like that. But

0:30

that doesn't lead to growth. If you're going

0:32

to take credit for your talent, you

0:34

need to also take credit for

0:36

your naughty bits. It

0:39

isn't about being perfect. It's

0:41

about being better. Hello,

0:44

my name is Dr. Stephanie Steema,

0:46

and I host expert discussions with

0:48

thought leaders in all facets of

0:50

health, including nutrition, fitness, hormones,

0:53

stress management, performance, recovery,

0:55

longevity, health span, and

0:57

energy production. On

0:59

this show, we discuss complex

1:02

science, but then we also

1:04

alchemize it into actionable, everyday

1:06

living. The ultimate goal with the

1:08

show is to assist you in making informed

1:10

decisions about your health and to

1:12

catapult you into being the hero

1:14

in your own life. All

1:21

right, friends, welcome back to another episode of

1:24

Better With Dr. Stephanie. It's me, your

1:26

host, Dr. Stephanie Estima. And today

1:28

I have Dr. Scott Berry

1:30

Hoffman here for a

1:32

discussion. all about how we

1:34

can become the better

1:36

version of ourselves. Dr.

1:38

Kaufman is a professor of psychology

1:40

at Columbia University and the director

1:42

of the Center for Human Potential.

1:44

He's also the founder of self -actualization

1:47

coaching, and Dr. Kaufman is among

1:49

the top 1 % most cited

1:51

scientists in the world for his

1:53

research on intelligence and creativity. In

1:56

2015, he was also named one

1:58

of the 50 groundbreaking scientists who are

2:00

changing the way that we see the world by

2:02

Business Insider. Dr. Kaufman received his

2:04

PhD from Yale University, where he came

2:07

up with the new theory of human

2:09

intelligence. He's also a host, just like

2:11

I am, of the psychology podcast, which

2:13

has received over 30 million downloads and

2:15

is widely considered among the top psychology

2:17

podcasts in the world. So

2:19

what did we talk about today?

2:22

We talked all about some

2:24

of the intellectual and

2:26

emotional traps that we can fall

2:28

into as individuals in a

2:31

world where everything is a traumatic

2:33

response. And of course,

2:35

that's not to say that anything that

2:37

happened to you in your life was

2:39

not meaningful and significant. But

2:41

Dr. Kaufman talks about this idea of

2:43

taking responsibility for what was without letting people

2:45

off the hook. It doesn't mean that

2:47

you're saying that it was

2:49

okay for some of these things

2:51

to happen. But how can we

2:53

take responsibility for our life going

2:56

forward so that that doesn't become

2:58

the defining article of who we

3:00

are? Which I really, really, really

3:02

love because this is something that

3:04

I have personally struggled with having,

3:06

you know, a difficult upbringing in

3:08

some ways, but I think in

3:10

some ways the difficult upbringing, it's

3:12

like the question is, Am I

3:14

successful or did I become who I

3:16

am today despite what happened to

3:18

me or because of what happened to

3:20

me, right? So that's a very

3:22

interesting distinction and we talk about this

3:24

on the show. We

3:27

talk about a victim mindset versus an

3:29

empowered mindset. We talk about leaning

3:31

into our uncomfortable feelings and our uncomfortable

3:33

emotions and even doing things that

3:35

scare us as essential tools for growth

3:37

as an individual. And you'll hear

3:39

on the podcast, I share the first

3:41

time that I got up on

3:44

stage, I literally wanted to run away.

3:46

I wouldn't talk to anyone like

3:48

my pits were like sweating, mouth

3:50

was dry. Like I was so nervous

3:52

and all I share sort of what helped

3:54

me actually get up on stage. and not

3:56

run away like a scared little cat. So

3:58

ends up getting up on stage. And

4:00

we talk a little bit about the

4:02

shift from maybe making it about

4:04

yourself versus making it about other people

4:06

and being in service to others. We

4:09

talk also about the difference for

4:11

women, how we can be

4:13

more agreeable, like our personality.

4:16

Generally, we tend to score

4:18

higher on agreeableness and how

4:20

we can stop beating ourselves up

4:22

for being sensitive. You know, if

4:24

we are feeling emotions, A,

4:26

not being defined by them, but B,

4:29

not apologizing for them either. So

4:31

there's a really nice sort of area

4:33

in the middle, the messy middle

4:35

that Dr. Kaufman was playing in. I

4:38

really loved his book. When I was

4:40

reading it, I found myself seeing some of

4:42

my own traits, the good, the bad, and

4:44

the gnarly in the book. So I really

4:46

found it very useful. And

4:48

what I've started doing just as we're

4:50

wrapping up this intro is I'm leaving you

4:52

a little Easter egg at the end

4:54

of the show. After you finish the show,

4:56

I leave sort of my favorite moments

4:58

of the show, and that's at the end.

5:01

All right, so please enjoy

5:03

my very robust and juicy

5:05

conversation with Dr. Scott Berry

5:07

Kaufman. Did

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8:02

Dr. Scott Berry Coffman, I am

8:04

just thrilled to welcome you to the

8:06

Better Podcast. Welcome. Well, Dr. Stephanie,

8:08

it is such an honor to be

8:10

here. Thank you for inviting me.

8:12

I really wanted to start with this

8:14

idea of trauma. And you talk

8:16

about this through, like there's sort of

8:18

a through line through the book

8:20

where you talk about this idea that

8:22

there's some of these dangerous, maybe

8:24

misleading buzzwords, we'll say. And I wanted

8:26

to start with trauma. We've used

8:28

this word, at least I see this

8:30

online, almost ad nauseam now.

8:32

We have trigger warnings on posts.

8:35

We have hashtag, empath, hashtag, trauma,

8:38

hashtag, whatever it

8:40

is. Maybe I'll

8:42

get you to start with what

8:44

is wrong with using the word

8:46

trauma in everything that we're doing

8:48

and what is a better reframe

8:50

for us for looking at some

8:52

of the adverse events that have

8:54

happened to us so we can

8:56

get into childhood or you know,

8:59

at some point in our past,

9:01

how can we begin to reframe

9:03

the adverse events that have happened

9:05

for our own self -betterment and self

9:07

-actualization? Yeah, these are big

9:09

questions. And first of all, thank you

9:11

so much for having me on your

9:13

podcast. It's a real honor and delight.

9:15

These are heavy questions, and these are

9:17

questions that bring up a lot of

9:20

emotions and can easily go into controversial

9:22

territory. So I want to be delicate

9:24

and sensitive and nuanced. That's my

9:26

vibe. So just kind of starting with

9:28

all that, I want to say that I really want

9:30

the best for you, right? Not just to you, Dr.

9:32

Stephanie, but for your listeners. And often

9:34

we get stuck in mindsets, I would

9:36

call it a victim mindset, that

9:39

really holds us back. It really holds us

9:41

back in life. And to me, the way I

9:43

define a victim mindset is it's a kind

9:45

of state of mind you get into where you

9:47

tend to blame all your problems on external

9:49

circumstances, whether it's that life dealt you a bad

9:51

hand or that a person or even an

9:53

entire group of people have it in for you

9:56

and are holding you back. You believe you

9:58

don't need to take any responsibility for your actions.

10:00

Even if you're a colossal asshole, you

10:02

don't need to take responsibility for

10:04

that because of quote trauma. You can't

10:06

stop ruminating about your past victimization

10:08

and you even fixate on how to

10:11

enact revenge non -stop. But you

10:13

don't think about constructive solutions for moving

10:15

forward with your life with hope and

10:17

purpose. And what I argue in my

10:19

book is that that mindset, no matter who you are

10:21

and no matter what you've been through, is going to hold

10:23

you back from moving the life you want to live. I

10:26

say you can have a trauma without being

10:28

traumatized. You can be a victim without having

10:30

a victim mindset. So you

10:32

can also, as we see a lot

10:34

today, you can have not been a

10:36

victim and have a victim mindset. That's

10:38

another configuration, you know? So all

10:40

these things are independent of each

10:42

other. And I think that regardless of

10:44

what you've been through in your

10:47

life, having an empowerment mindset is much

10:49

more healthy for you. And I

10:51

define an empowerment mindset as one that's

10:53

very... and you know, in improv

10:55

sort of way. Yes, I've had a

10:57

lot of crappy things happen to

10:59

me and I have the deep reservoirs

11:01

of resiliency within me that I

11:03

can handle it. You know, it just

11:05

doesn't stop with the, you know,

11:07

I've had bad things happen to me

11:09

and so I'm going to kind

11:11

of give up or become passive and

11:13

the easy thing to do is

11:15

to blame the world for your problems.

11:17

That's the easy thing to do.

11:19

The hard thing to do is to

11:21

have full acceptance and as As

11:23

Irving Yalom, my favorite existential psychotherapist says,

11:25

sooner or later, you have to

11:28

give up hope for a better past.

11:31

That's probably the most profound thing

11:33

that you could ever accept, really

11:35

accept in your life. The

11:37

giving up the hope that things could have

11:40

been different in the past. Or that it'll ever

11:42

be different. You know, barring a

11:44

time machine. And I

11:46

think that it's been my experience when

11:48

I've come across individuals who have

11:50

been victimized in some way. One

11:52

of the, and we can say, you

11:54

know, sexual abuse or maltreatment as

11:56

a child. I mean, some, there's

11:58

been individuals who I've had conversations with

12:00

where they have not wanted to be

12:02

defined by that. And in fact, they've

12:05

wanted to move past that as quickly

12:07

as possible. And then there's sometimes there's

12:09

the alternative, which is what I think

12:11

you're describing, where they almost want to

12:13

stay there. They almost want to stay

12:15

in that victim mindset

12:17

that you're describing. And they want to let

12:19

everybody know that this has happened to

12:21

them and this is why they behave the

12:23

way that they do or this is,

12:25

you know, the excuse. And I don't want

12:27

to say excuse in like a derogatory

12:29

term, but they're using it as almost a

12:31

justification for why they have not followed

12:34

through on dreams or, you know, goals that

12:36

were meaningful to them. And so I

12:38

wanted to maybe double click a little bit

12:40

on victim mindset and maybe you can

12:42

expand a little bit on what are some

12:44

of the cornerstones, let's say, like clinical

12:46

signs and symptoms that, you know,

12:48

for the listener, they might be able

12:50

to self -reflect and say, oh yeah, I

12:52

kind of, yeah, that's, I can see myself

12:55

in that. And I'll also just say, before

12:57

you answer, I think that

12:59

there's always going to be some sort

13:01

of vacillate, like there's going to be, we

13:03

all exist on a continuum. It's not

13:05

like a victim mindset or a victor mindset.

13:07

It's not one or the other. I

13:09

think there's a lot of shades of of

13:11

gray so I think that maybe as

13:13

you're explaining some of the qualities and characteristics

13:15

of a victim mindset just understanding that

13:17

we may be more or less those things

13:20

and those things are also subject to

13:22

to shift as well. Absolutely. I make that

13:24

very clear in the book that these

13:26

are best to think of this as a

13:28

mindset, a dynamic mindset. You

13:30

can change it throughout the course of your

13:32

day. You can catch yourself having a

13:34

victim mindset, you know, waiting in line at

13:36

Starbucks and like, oh, that woman's taken

13:38

so long, you know, to order coffee. Why

13:40

me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it

13:42

can happen at any time. So it's best

13:44

to think of this as a mindset.

13:46

And you're absolutely right. And I think it's

13:48

a lot harder for people to, with

13:51

these self -help books, you very rarely see

13:53

what I'm saying, which is, you know, take

13:55

responsibility for your own narcissism. But, you

13:57

know, the kind of books that become bestsellers

13:59

are the ones that's all the ex -boyfriend's

14:01

fault. Right, right. It's all,

14:03

you know, like, you're badass, everyone

14:05

else are haters. Those are the

14:07

books that tend to sell well. And like, you

14:09

know, the people who get on all the talk circuits,

14:11

they say that kind of stuff. But

14:13

I have some real talk in this book. I'll read

14:15

some of these things. And I

14:17

think that if we're all being honest with each

14:19

other, we can fall prey to these things I'm

14:21

about to read at various parts of our lives.

14:24

You tend to blame your problems on external circumstances, whether

14:26

it's that life dealt you a bad hand or

14:28

that a person or even an entire group of people

14:30

have it in for you and are holding you

14:32

back. you attribute all or most

14:34

negative outcomes or challenges in your life to

14:36

your past or quote that one thing

14:38

that happened to you. So you keep ruminating

14:40

and you keep being into patterns and

14:42

instead of saying, okay, I have these patterns

14:44

and these patterns need to change, you

14:47

say, okay, I have these patterns and it's

14:49

all because of the way my mom

14:51

treated me when I was three and you

14:53

just stop there. That's the

14:55

extent of your healing and growth is

14:57

like you're stuck at age three forever.

15:00

You're often distrustful of people and wonder what people

15:02

want from you if they give you something

15:04

positive. You know, there's a certain

15:06

cynicism there. You rarely give people the benefit of

15:08

the doubt if they seem mean to you.

15:10

So you take things personally. You take everything personally.

15:13

You know, if someone, you take neutrality

15:15

personally. So a victim

15:17

of everything, so in your head.

15:19

So like if you go on

15:21

one date and the person is

15:23

just like not incredibly enthusiastic about

15:26

you, that actually means they hate

15:28

you. And you're a victim of

15:30

this person as opposed to like,

15:32

oh, well, this happens. This is

15:34

called dating. Like, no, everyone's gonna

15:36

like you. So you

15:38

believe you don't need to take

15:40

responsibility for your actions. So what you'll

15:42

see is a lot of people

15:44

with a victim mindset, they will blame

15:46

their bad behavior on others always. So

15:49

they'll be

15:51

maybe very hostile

15:53

and aggressive. And

15:56

when they're called out on that behavior,

15:58

It's never their fault. So

16:00

these are just some examples. So there's a

16:02

really great parable in the book where I forget

16:04

her name, but she was like Aunt Ada

16:06

or something. And like, something scary was in the

16:08

shed. shed. This thing's scary in the tool

16:10

shed. She would never leave her house because of

16:13

that. Never left the house. never left her

16:15

room, made everybody sort of bat, like people would

16:17

bring the food up to her and she

16:19

would eat her, you know, sort of had all

16:21

these rules and regulations around this one defining

16:23

moment in her life where she went into the

16:25

tool shed, she saw something scary, and then

16:27

that was sort of the, you know, it was

16:29

like arrested development. She just stayed there and

16:31

never really moved past it as you're saying. And

16:34

there's something that you talked about that

16:37

I that I was reflecting on personally

16:39

which was people who you know to

16:41

contrast the victim mindset that you were

16:43

just describing there's also I believe you

16:45

call it the empowered mindset or the

16:47

empowerment mindset where people will ask Not

16:49

why questions like why me? Why is

16:51

this always happened? But what questions? So

16:54

I thought maybe we could stay there

16:56

for a moment and like just kind

16:58

of paint the picture the difference between

17:00

those two mindsets and how we can

17:02

ask different questions to sort of shift

17:04

us from one to the other. Yeah,

17:07

Tasha York, I want to give

17:09

a big shout out to her and

17:11

her research. She distinguishes between what

17:13

and why questions, you

17:15

know, you can. Ask yourself,

17:17

why God? Why is

17:19

this this way and keep ruminating about

17:21

that? But that's not as productive

17:24

as, you know, trying to figure out

17:26

like what practical things can you

17:28

do? You know, what questions keep us

17:30

open -minded and they keep us curious?

17:32

What am I feeling right now? You

17:34

know, what is this really? You know,

17:36

what can I do right now in

17:38

this moment, given that this thing

17:41

has happened to move forward? You know,

17:43

but you know, what would make

17:45

me feel better? What

17:47

would make me feel better, Scott? What

17:49

do I need to do right now? But unfortunately,

17:51

we can get stuck in the why questions,

17:53

which are not as helpful and productive. Yeah,

17:56

and they're easier questions truthfully. It's like

17:58

it's easier to stay there It's easier to

18:00

I think that the brain generally and

18:02

certainly you can comment on this yourself But

18:04

it's it's easier to find the things

18:06

that we don't like it's easier to complain

18:08

about the things that are bothering us

18:10

in some capacity rather than to figure out

18:12

what the solution is to them So

18:14

this is why you have People

18:16

who love to complain on social media,

18:18

but they don't ever often offer any solutions

18:20

to the problem. It's just like, can

18:22

you believe that X, Y, or Z is

18:24

happening? This war is happening. This person

18:27

said this, this, you know, whatever. And then

18:29

there's no real solutions that are offered. Protein.

18:32

We know now for sure that

18:34

it needs to be a larger part

18:36

of our diet, especially in menopause. But

18:39

there's many forms of protein. You

18:41

could be eating meats and fish,

18:43

legumes, protein powders, lots and lots

18:45

of choices. But most

18:47

importantly, we are all also working

18:49

within a budget to source that protein.

18:51

We have to think about where we're

18:53

going to be spending our money. I

18:55

personally eat a high amount of protein

18:57

every day, and I'm also feeding my

18:59

husband, my two hungry teenagers, and so

19:01

I really need to be cautious about

19:04

how I'm spending my dollars. And

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order. And I'll say

22:05

maybe selfishly or a little bit proudly, one

22:07

of the things that we do in team Dr.

22:09

Stephanie, if you will, or Hello Betty. I'm

22:11

on team. I'm on your team. Yeah. I love

22:14

what we do every week is that we,

22:16

at the end of the week, we celebrate as

22:18

a team what I call our glows. So

22:20

gratitude, learns opportunities and wins because it's actually very

22:22

easy to figure out what, okay, so I'm

22:24

unhappy with this. I'm unhappy with that. But if

22:26

you, if you're unhappy, Where's

22:28

the learning opportunity, right? If

22:30

you didn't win, what did you learn? And

22:33

then how can we also stay

22:35

in gratitude, which is in my very

22:37

humble opinion, you know this more than

22:39

I would, and with more depth,

22:41

of course, is that it's much easier

22:43

to find all the things that are

22:45

going wrong. You have

22:47

to unlearn that, and

22:50

gratitude is almost like an exercise. It's

22:53

a mental exercise to get you there. Can

22:55

it would you agree with that first

22:57

of all? Is that something that you that

22:59

you agree with? Well, absolutely, and that's

23:01

why I think of gratefulness I use the

23:04

phrase gratefulness rather than gratitude because gratitude

23:06

is kind of like a feeling a momentary

23:08

feeling gratefulness is an orientation toward life

23:10

and You can go every day with this

23:12

orientation regardless of what's happening. You don't

23:14

just have to wait for the good things

23:16

to happen in your life for you

23:18

to have a feeling of gratitude. You can

23:20

be grateful for a real challenge you're

23:22

going through and as a way of learning

23:24

from it and a way of growing

23:26

from it. Christy Nelson is one of my

23:29

favorite writers and she wrote this book

23:31

called Wake Up Grateful and she argues that's

23:33

where big shout out to her. I

23:35

like giving people shout outs when I can.

23:37

And big shout out to her because she was

23:40

at stage four cancer and she writes in

23:42

her book beautifully about how and even when she's

23:44

laying there in the hospital bed and she

23:46

doesn't know how much long she has to live,

23:48

She was grateful for every moment that she

23:50

still had. She was grateful for the doctors, the

23:52

nurses and how they cared for her, their

23:54

kindness with her. She was so grateful for them.

23:56

It really walked her into that gratefulness. So,

23:59

you know, it's much better to have gratefulness

24:01

as an orientation than to just hope, you

24:03

know, throughout the course of her day will have

24:05

something that will give us a feeling of

24:07

gratitude. Sometimes when something

24:09

bad happens to you, like all the things

24:11

we were talking about, maltreatment as a

24:14

child or some type of abuse or something

24:16

that just was terrible for you, your

24:18

reaction to it felt very, you didn't really

24:20

have the skills, let's say, to process

24:22

and to move through the experience. I

24:24

think when something like that

24:26

happens, it's also,

24:29

while it might be terrible and it might

24:31

be very painful, I think

24:33

that it also serves, and I'd love for you

24:35

to expand on this, it also serves as

24:38

a template for the things that we don't want

24:40

in our life, right? So there may be

24:42

even though it was a negative experience, it can

24:44

be a really great teaching opportunity for us

24:46

to say, okay, so this is, my

24:48

parents did this to me as a child.

24:50

I don't want to be that parent to

24:52

my children if I'm ever blessed to have

24:54

that role. Or, you know, I had, you

24:57

know, this person treated me, I never want

24:59

to do it. So it's sometimes it's good

25:01

to have almost a template for what you

25:03

don't like to help you on the path

25:05

to finding the things that you do. Well,

25:07

that's beautifully put. I don't know how else

25:09

I could add to that, Dr. Stephanie. I

25:12

feel like that relates in a way to

25:14

the importance of saying no in your life. The

25:17

more you get right with what you want, the

25:19

better able you make peace with

25:21

even if you piss people off by

25:24

saying no. I

25:26

mean, you probably get so many requests

25:28

on a daily basis from all sorts

25:30

of different things. You can't say yes

25:32

to all the requests. You'll lose your

25:34

sense of self. Right,

25:36

yes. And

25:39

so let's talk about this idea

25:41

and just kind of wrapping up

25:43

this idea of victim mindset. One

25:45

of the things I loved that

25:47

you talked about in the book

25:49

was this idea of responsibility and

25:51

really painting that as different than

25:53

accepting that whatever happened in your

25:55

past was justified. I think

25:57

a lot of people

25:59

struggle to acknowledge hardships

26:01

without those hardships defining

26:04

them. So

26:07

my question is, how can

26:09

we validate what has happened to

26:11

us and take responsibility for

26:13

how we show up in our

26:15

lives going forward? Big

26:20

word. And then, unfortunately,

26:22

it gets weaponized. It gets

26:24

politicized. This is a

26:26

neutral political zone right here. So when

26:28

I use the word responsibility, I'm not saying,

26:30

oh, the Libs need to take more

26:32

as well. Right. Okay.

26:35

So if we just make this neutral.

26:37

Responsibility is pretty darn important. And

26:39

it's important to take responsibility for your

26:41

whole self, not just the parts

26:43

of you that you like. And unfortunately,

26:45

the research shows that people have

26:47

what I call an authenticity bias. When

26:49

you ask people on psychological surveys

26:51

to, you know, say what are they

26:53

most, where who's the most you,

26:55

who's the most, and different adjectives, people

26:57

only circle the goodies. Moral,

26:59

moral, kind, good, the stuff

27:02

like, you know, all the

27:04

stuff that's, you know, not

27:06

so wonderful. They're like, that's

27:08

not the real me. Even though I act

27:10

that way sometimes, that's not the real me. So

27:12

first of all, I think taking responsibility for

27:14

your whole self is a really important first step

27:16

to growth. Okay. And it's just,

27:18

it's accepting that it's all part

27:20

of you without judgment. You know, you

27:22

can still loving kindness with yourself,

27:24

but, but not disavowing some parts that,

27:26

you know, that you don't like

27:28

and kind of Because that actually leads

27:30

to a victim mindset often. You

27:33

know, you'll take... You'll only take credit. We

27:35

don't blame others for the good

27:37

things about ourselves, do we? Do we

27:39

say, oh, I'm so talented. That's

27:41

all because my mom. No,

27:43

we say, I'm talented. Yeah.

27:45

So humans are so weird

27:47

like that. But

27:50

that doesn't lead to growth.

27:52

If you're going to take credit

27:54

for your talent, you need

27:56

to also take credit for your

27:58

naughty bits. Yeah, all

28:00

the all the shiny sparkly bits you can take

28:02

credit for but you can also take credit for

28:04

all the gnarly All the gnarly bits that you

28:06

sort of want to put in the dungeon somewhere.

28:08

Yeah, I love that That's great And I think

28:10

the other thing too you talk about this again

28:12

And I have to like I loved your book

28:14

if I haven't said it like I love you

28:16

so much to me Because to your point,

28:18

I think a lot of times we like to

28:20

put things, we like to externalize

28:23

things, like, oh, the reason why I'm

28:25

like this is because of so -and -so,

28:27

or, you know, and I think once

28:29

we begin to accept our whole self

28:31

as you've been saying, I think that's

28:33

when the real healing and the whole

28:35

person can really emerge. And I think

28:37

when you try to avoid the negative,

28:39

right? So when you try to avoid

28:41

the gnarly bits, you actually, in a

28:44

way, become more attached to them, right?

28:46

Because you're trying so hard to run

28:48

away from them that they almost have

28:50

this, I don't know, almost like this

28:52

demonic pull, right? Like, it's self -fulfilling prophecy.

28:54

Like, I am not my mother. And

28:56

then, of course, you find yourself speaking

28:58

exactly like your mother, right? So can

29:00

you expand a little bit on that?

29:03

Like, why it's important for us to...

29:06

lean into some of those, you

29:08

know, parts of us that maybe we

29:10

feel shame around, that we want

29:12

to hide, or even even more

29:14

broadly, just uncomfortable experiences, things that where

29:16

we are unsure, we're putting ourselves

29:18

in an environment where we cannot

29:20

predict the outcome, why that's essential for

29:23

our grossest humans. Oh,

29:25

boy. Oh, Abraham, as one of my

29:27

favorite psychologists, probably my favorite psychologist. Who

29:29

are we kidding? My favorite psychologist. I

29:31

wrote a whole book about him called

29:33

Transcend. Yeah. He says,

29:35

I'm going to paraphrase in basis,

29:37

we can stay in this fear

29:39

or we can move forward in

29:42

growth and we have to constantly

29:44

make that choice. We have

29:46

to constantly choose the growth option again and again

29:48

and overcome the fear response again and again. That

29:50

process is never over. It doesn't matter

29:52

who you are. You have to keep

29:54

actively and intentionally doing that. And

29:57

sometimes that means putting us in

29:59

situations that we do fear. you know,

30:01

and overcoming the and trying to

30:03

overcome the fear response or reframe the

30:05

fear response into something more positive.

30:07

You know, if you're about to give

30:09

like a big talk and you're

30:11

scared of public speaking, this feeling of

30:13

nerves is actually excitement, you know,

30:16

and just just reframe what you're feeling.

30:18

You know, it takes maybe takes a lot

30:20

of work, you know, do cognitive reframing

30:22

to do emotional regulation skills. But it's really

30:24

worth it because if you don't put

30:26

yourself in those situations, You won't

30:29

grow. You can absolutely stay

30:31

in your save zone your entire

30:33

life and that's fine. I mean

30:35

everyone chooses to do what they

30:37

want to do but if you

30:39

really do want to to

30:42

grow as a whole person

30:44

and gain deeper, greater depths

30:46

of meaning in your life,

30:48

you're going to have to

30:50

go out on a limb

30:52

and choose options that may

30:55

cause heartache, pain, suffering,

30:57

but you know on the other side

30:59

of all that will be really deep

31:01

joy and meaning. Yeah, and I think

31:03

it's also your interpretation too. So like

31:05

the example of getting up on stage,

31:07

like if your heart's racing, Your mind,

31:09

your brain is just sort of like

31:11

a pattern recognition. It's like, oh, the

31:13

heart's racing. That must mean fear. That

31:15

must mean stress physiology. That must mean

31:17

there's a tiger versus reframing it. Like

31:19

you just said very quickly, but I

31:21

think it's worth just kind of staying

31:23

there for a moment. Maybe it's actually

31:25

excitement, but you do need to put

31:27

just a little bit of space between. the

31:30

very quick reaction that the brain's like,

31:32

heart racing, mouth is dry, you are scared,

31:34

run away, versus, oh, but I'm about

31:37

to help someone in the audience. I'm about

31:39

to go and give some value to

31:41

people that maybe can benefit from what I

31:43

have to say. So I think that

31:45

there's a little bit of just also recognizing

31:47

that your brain How do

31:49

I say this is not always

31:52

working in your best interest like it's

31:54

just kind of going on past

31:56

experiences like heart racing or you know

31:58

thousands of years of you know

32:00

not living in modern society where you

32:02

may have a racing heart or

32:04

You know that like I was saying

32:06

that stress physiology that's causing you

32:08

to you know that fight -or -flight system.

32:10

Yeah Yeah, I should be interviewing

32:13

you Gosh no Well the fight -or -flight

32:15

I want to just yes and

32:17

that fight -or -flight is one system But

32:19

often we don't talk about the

32:21

calm and connect system, which also exists.

32:23

And they are at odds with

32:25

each other, you know? But if we

32:27

can lean into, when

32:29

our fight and fight is to the extent

32:31

to which we can lean into a

32:34

connection and a curiosity to what we're experiencing,

32:36

we can actually activate a different system. Yeah.

32:39

I can share the first time that I stood

32:41

up on stage and I was about to give

32:43

a speech. Yeah. The same.

32:45

I was nervous. I

32:47

was, I couldn't... I

32:50

was so nervous. I was, I wanted

32:52

to cry. I wanted to run away.

32:54

Everything in my body. Yeah. I wanted to

32:56

get out of there. The only reason

32:58

why I got up on stage was I,

33:00

there was 1500 people in the audience

33:02

and I said, okay, if 1499 hate what

33:04

I have to say, but there's one

33:06

person, there's just one person that just needed

33:08

part of what I have to, you

33:10

know, part of what I have to share,

33:12

then my job is done. Like I've

33:14

won. Yeah,

33:16

so when I took it away from me,

33:18

like it's all about me, I'm scared. What if

33:20

they don't like me? What if I fall

33:22

on my feet? What if I trip up? What

33:24

if my heel breaks? All of that stuff.

33:26

When I switched it from being about me to

33:29

being about them, like being in service to

33:31

the people that I was about to speak to,

33:33

that for some reason, and I don't

33:35

know why, but I've always done that.

33:38

When I am about to get up on

33:40

stage and I'm nervous, I always think about, let

33:42

me make it all about them. And

33:44

then it actually doesn't really matter. It

33:46

doesn't really matter what I, if I

33:48

mess up, if I, you know, I

33:50

don't know, don't have the right clothes

33:52

or don't have the right word or

33:55

I mess up my taught, like as

33:57

long as I am doing, someone is

33:59

finding value in it, then I've won.

34:01

Yeah. Well, that's the right, I mean,

34:03

that's the way, that's the way, you

34:05

know, that's helpful, you know, and it

34:07

looks like you've really discovered that, but.

34:10

That's a real problem with vulnerable narcissism,

34:12

which I talk about in my book

34:14

as well, which is a topic I've

34:16

studied for many years, is that we

34:18

get so neurotically caught up in our

34:20

own pain and suffering that it becomes

34:22

all about us and we miss out

34:24

on the moments for connection that could

34:27

happen if we just got our focus

34:29

outside of ourself a little bit. And

34:32

so how would you recommend someone

34:34

begin to... the right word like

34:36

inoculate themselves? Like, you know, what

34:38

are what are some ways that

34:40

we can like slowly expose ourselves

34:42

without being like, Hey, I'm just

34:44

gonna get up in front of

34:46

like 2 ,000 people like talk, like

34:48

maybe that's overwhelming for someone. But

34:50

what are some small ways that

34:52

we can begin to push the

34:54

boundaries of our comfort zone? What

34:56

are some, you know, maybe habits,

34:58

strategies, thinking processes where we can

35:00

where we can begin to lean

35:02

into an uncomfortable experience and think

35:04

about our feelings. feel our

35:07

feelings and begin to sort of work through maybe

35:09

fears that we have. I know you were

35:11

talking about, I think it was your fear of

35:13

flying, was it, in the book? I believe

35:15

you were... Yeah, I overcame that. I overcame that.

35:17

Well, there's a lot, I mean, there's a lot there,

35:19

and I obviously wrote a whole book about it, and

35:21

there's no, and I also don't believe in quick fixes,

35:23

right? So like, hey, Scott, give me the one -sentence thing

35:25

to solve everything you just said. It's

35:28

a whole journey. a

35:31

whole journey. My book is divided into a whole

35:33

section of all the things we become victim to

35:35

inside. See, the thing is, most people, when you

35:37

think about a victim mindset, you think of, oh,

35:39

it's all the fault of the outside world. But

35:41

I talk about how you can be a victim

35:43

to your emotions, for instance. That's an

35:45

internal victimhood. So that's like where you

35:47

take your emotions at face value and

35:49

you don't create any distance with them.

35:51

You are your emotions and therefore you

35:53

must act on whatever you're feeling. So

35:56

if you're sad, that means you are

35:58

sad. If you

36:00

automatically don't create any distance, but you automatically

36:02

become a slave to your emotions, I

36:04

consider that becoming having a victim mindset with

36:06

your emotions. So it's kind of like

36:08

a little twist on things. And I go

36:10

through the list. I go through your

36:12

self -esteem. You can come a victim to

36:14

your self -esteem when you must always feel

36:16

good about yourself. If you're at the mercy

36:19

of that, you're not going to learn

36:21

and grow. It's okay to have a low

36:23

self -esteem sometimes. It's okay

36:25

to have moments. You

36:27

don't want to live there. But I'm

36:29

saying you don't, you know, I'm more concerned

36:31

about the person who regardless of the

36:33

feedback there and the consequences of their actions

36:35

and others, they always have a high

36:37

self -esteem. I'm worried about those people. Right,

36:40

right. It's like the making of a, well,

36:42

I don't know how you feel about the word

36:44

narcissist or it's like almost like a madman.

36:46

It's like how could you, or like almost like

36:48

a psychopath in a way, right? It's like

36:50

if you have no - Agreed, agreed. Psychopath, yeah.

36:52

Yeah, if there's no sort of ebb and flow,

36:54

I mean, we're all going to feel good

36:56

about ourselves. Like after that talk, I

36:58

felt so, I was elated. I

37:00

was so proud of myself. And I

37:03

got off the stage, I was

37:05

like, okay, I'll definitely do that again.

37:07

And I had, you know, good

37:09

response from the audience too, which was

37:11

really, which was really validating. But

37:13

when we're thinking about emotion to your

37:15

point, how do we, how

37:18

do you suggest managing those emotions? You're

37:21

not like, I'm sad versus right

37:23

now I'm feeling sad. You know, I'm

37:26

depressed versus right now I'm feeling

37:28

depressed or I'm anxious rather than like

37:30

personalizing it. And I'll give you

37:32

a little bit of an expansion here.

37:34

When I was in private practice,

37:36

I would have a lot of patients

37:38

with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and the

37:40

way that they started talking about it

37:42

was they would often, the language

37:44

they used was really interesting. It was

37:46

like my fibro, my

37:49

chronic fatigue. They would sort

37:51

of, it became almost like

37:53

a part of them. And

37:55

so it became very difficult to

37:57

get them excited about a better prognosis

37:59

because they're like, well, my fibro

38:02

does this, my chronic fatigue does that.

38:04

So talk a little bit about

38:06

how we can, and you've

38:08

already mentioned a little bit about

38:10

not becoming victim to your emotions, but

38:12

where we can just be maybe

38:14

the observer of the emotion rather than

38:16

personalizing it. Psychologists talk a lot

38:19

about something called cognitive diffusing cognitive diffusing

38:21

which allows you to Isolate a

38:23

thought you have and create a distance

38:25

from it. So let's say it's

38:27

I'm uncomfortable, right? I'm uncomfortable well one

38:29

one technique is to Say it

38:32

out loud and experiment how you say

38:34

it diffuse your thoughts so you

38:36

can tone you want to ultimately be

38:38

able to tone down your activity

38:40

to it and interact with it more

38:42

productively so simply observe it with

38:45

no agenda and Say it

38:47

in some weird ways. Keep saying

38:49

it out loud. So I'm uncomfortable.

38:51

I'm uncomfortable and then like exaggerate it.

38:53

I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. Basically

38:56

change the way you say it and

38:58

just say it out like just keep creating

39:00

a distance from that thought and your

39:02

identity and who you are. You know, you

39:05

want to externalize it when you get

39:07

it outside yourself and you want to see

39:09

it for what it is. Maybe also

39:11

journaling that has been shown, not maybe journaling

39:13

has been shown to be very effective

39:15

in getting, you know, you want to externalize

39:17

the stuff and you want to be

39:20

able to process your emotions in a more

39:22

reflective way and in a more constructive

39:24

way. You want to, you want to non

39:26

-judgmentally get it out there and then decide

39:28

what you want to do with it

39:30

as opposed to immediately, immediately

39:33

jumping in. to

39:35

however you're feeling. I think we

39:37

all know the person who's so at the

39:39

whim of their emotions that, you know, they're

39:41

like, one second they're crying, the next second

39:43

they're laughing, the next second they're throwing plates

39:45

at you. Okay, maybe that was just the

39:47

next girlfriend of mine. But,

39:50

you know, I think we all know that person. And

39:52

I think it's important to, I'm joking, I joke, I

39:54

joke, by the way, but it's just, it's

39:56

so like that poor person, that

39:59

poor person, right? Like, you know, you

40:01

want to be able to create

40:03

that distance. I've

40:05

heard the term HSP, high

40:08

sensitive person.

40:10

Yes. Tell us a little

40:12

bit about sensitivity, how that can be a

40:14

superpower, but also maybe a burden. And

40:16

as we're talking about emotions and not necessarily

40:18

being subject to them, what are some

40:20

of the gifts of being sensitive? And I

40:22

say this because I know that there's

40:24

a lot of women, my audience is typically

40:26

Prayer and menopausal, menopausal women, probably been

40:28

told at some point in their lives they're

40:30

being too sensitive. How

40:32

can sensitivity be a superpower? So,

40:36

first of all, the gender thing is

40:38

really interesting to me. And I think that

40:40

a lot of males who are HSP,

40:42

like me, may, you know, it's

40:44

not a societally accepted, right? It's sort

40:46

of like, oh, you're somehow less of a

40:48

man. And if you show your emotions

40:50

or if you have a rich emotional life,

40:53

and I think that's unfortunate. I think

40:55

that's unfortunate. And so whether

40:57

or not whatever the gender

40:59

is you are, if you

41:01

score high in the HSP

41:03

characteristics of seeing subtleties, where

41:06

other people might miss them, feeling things

41:08

very deeply, having very strong

41:10

emotions, so often being overwhelmed with their

41:12

emotions, it's an interesting sort of

41:14

duality. Because in the one hand, they're so

41:16

open to so many things, which can

41:18

be wonderful for creativity. It can be like

41:20

a double -edged sword. But on the other hand,

41:23

that openness can cause you to want to

41:25

shut down as well because you're getting so

41:27

much in, you know, to your system. So

41:29

I would say that it can be

41:32

a beautiful trait and it's nothing to be

41:34

ashamed of. It's nothing to try to

41:36

shun from the kingdom. but

41:38

learning to manage and work with it in

41:40

productive ways and not being a victim to

41:42

it. Just like everything in the book, you

41:44

can notice a common theme in my book,

41:46

right? Is like, you know, there's like a

41:48

dozen things that you don't have to be

41:50

a victim to in your life. And even

41:52

though people act like they're victims of, you

41:54

know, there are people who will be like,

41:56

you know, don't, you know, when you're, when

41:58

you're around them, you feel like you're walking

42:00

around eggshells around them, you know, like if

42:02

they're like, you're like, they're somehow you

42:04

know, not part of the same rules

42:06

that everyone else applies to in their head

42:08

because they're HSP, they're like, well, I'm

42:10

a highly sensitive person, so I don't have

42:12

to, I don't have to do that,

42:14

or I don't have to do that, or,

42:16

and I would say that's not productive

42:18

for that person. Like, you could be HSP

42:20

and take responsibility for it and not

42:22

expect everyone to conform to everything, but use

42:24

it and harness it in ways that

42:26

make the world a better place, you know?

42:28

You don't have to be a victim

42:31

to these traits. And what

42:33

is the relationship between maybe being

42:35

a highly sensitive person, HSB, and

42:37

having good EQ? So we talk

42:39

about IQ and like... Asking the

42:41

good questions. Oh, yeah, we're getting

42:43

into the good stuff now. Yeah,

42:45

so IQ obviously is like, you

42:47

know, intellect. It's, you know, maybe

42:49

controversial and... But it's sort of

42:51

like the standard measurement that we

42:53

have for intelligence, but emotional quotient

42:55

or emotional intelligence. How are those

42:57

two... Related, do we find that

42:59

there's an inverse or directly proportional

43:01

relationship between those two? I

43:04

think there a lot of misconceptions about what it

43:06

means to be a highly sensitive person. Having

43:08

high EQ or being a

43:10

kind person is not automatically

43:12

coming along for the ride

43:14

of being an HSP. You

43:17

can equally, equally be

43:19

an HSP asshole. you know,

43:21

like equally allow, you

43:23

know, possible. I wrote an

43:25

article about this that's a bit

43:27

cheeky, but that's how I roll,

43:30

I guess. For Scientific American called,

43:32

12 reasons you're secretly a narcissist

43:34

masquerading as a sensitive introvert. Oh,

43:36

wow. We will make sure to link to that. Yes.

43:38

We'll make sure to link to that. Amazing. Yeah.

43:41

Make sure I got the title right, but it's something

43:43

along those lines. And, you

43:45

know, the thing that just set me

43:47

off with that is I saw an

43:49

interview with Kanye West where he says,

43:51

I'm very misunderstood. I'm really just a

43:53

highly sensitive introvert. And it's like, well,

43:55

no, you can be highly sensitive and

43:57

an asshole at the same time, you

43:59

know, like, it doesn't absolve you of

44:01

your ass -holery because you're sensitive to

44:03

things, you know. Narcissists are

44:05

very sensitive to threats to their

44:07

ego, right? Does that mean, does

44:09

that automatically make you a kind

44:11

human? Because you're sensitive to

44:13

threats to your ego. So,

44:17

that's a misconception. EQ

44:20

is not correlated with HSP. But,

44:24

if you're HSP and you also

44:26

have traits of kindness, I

44:28

think they really enhance each other.

44:31

and really create a superpower for you

44:33

in a lot of ways, even though

44:35

I'm wary about using that word. But

44:37

I do think the nuance there is

44:39

that if you can combine these two

44:41

traits, that actually can be

44:44

great better than any one

44:46

of them by themselves. Fantastic.

44:50

Does that make sense, doctor? Yeah, no,

44:52

it makes a lot of sense. And I think

44:54

typically in my understanding of this, and feel

44:56

free to redirect me here if I'm off. I

44:59

think sometimes women tend to

45:01

score higher on, you know,

45:03

agreeableness and - They do. Right? So

45:05

I - That's true. So I think

45:08

that there's this EQ, this, you

45:10

know, relationship or this possible,

45:12

not the Kanye's of the world where they

45:14

In women, yeah. Yeah, in women, right, exactly,

45:16

where they can be very highly sensitive and

45:18

maybe this is an opportunity for them to,

45:20

when there is a lot of things coming

45:22

in, to be able to maybe make sense

45:24

of that better than someone who has, who

45:26

has maybe a low, who has low EQ

45:29

or doesn't realize why they're, doesn't know why

45:31

they're feeling what they're feeling and doesn't know

45:33

how to either put words to it or

45:35

to be able to categorize it properly, like,

45:37

what am I feeling? Why am I feeling

45:39

this? Am I tired, you know, like, to

45:41

be able to, like, understand their

45:43

emotional environment? So I think that

45:45

there's a beautiful opportunity, at least

45:48

for the, you know, at least

45:50

my observation, again, I could be

45:52

totally wrong here, where I think

45:54

that women can maybe, who score

45:56

higher on agreeableness, can maybe, who

45:58

can maybe categorize their emotional environment

46:00

maybe a little bit better than

46:02

someone who's, or a male too,

46:05

who's lower on versus someone who's

46:07

lower on EQ. Actually,

46:09

I think that you made some really

46:11

excellent points there, really excellent points. And

46:13

I think we need to do more

46:15

research on that because there probably is

46:17

a gender effect there because women on

46:19

average do tend to score higher in

46:21

what we call, I call white triad

46:23

characteristics. Men tend to the extremes,

46:26

there's a lot more dark triad individuals,

46:28

although there obviously can be dark triad

46:30

women and light triad men, of course,

46:32

but we're talking averages. So

46:34

there's something really valuable there in what

46:36

you're saying. And I think that the

46:38

interaction of like, like not being ashamed

46:40

of your high agreeableness, cause I think

46:42

that is unfortunate when a lot of

46:45

women may feel like, you know, they,

46:47

they, they're so hard on themselves, right?

46:49

They're like, Oh darn, I keep apologizing

46:51

and I need to stop doing that.

46:53

And you're, you know, like, or, oh,

46:55

I'm, I'm, I'm such a people pleaser.

46:57

I hate myself for it. Instead of

46:59

thinking like that, that's like a victim

47:02

mindset, right? Instead of thinking like that.

47:04

you know, being like, well, this is

47:06

who I am, you know, and it's

47:08

actually pretty a wonderful thing if I

47:10

harness it in the right way and

47:12

if I set the great containers and

47:14

boundaries around myself, I can combine it

47:16

with my high sensitivity to really be

47:19

extraordinarily creative and make huge contributions to

47:21

the world. I think we need more

47:23

people with these characters than people who

47:25

are hard on themselves for having them.

47:28

Yeah, and I think this is why I'm

47:30

such a fan of the book because

47:32

this is written in a way that is

47:34

different than anything I've read before. It

47:37

really is a gentle but firm way of

47:39

asking the reader to reflect internally in

47:41

terms of what here is true for you

47:43

and then what are some of the

47:45

ways that we can move towards, you know,

47:47

the self -actualization, this Maslow, I know it's

47:49

not, I know we won't get into

47:51

it today, but I know it's not a

47:53

triangle or it's not a pyramid, it's

47:55

more as you talk about it. like a

47:58

sailboat, but I think that it's a

48:00

beautiful thing to be able to say, okay,

48:02

let me call myself, let me like

48:04

check myself before I wreck myself.

48:06

Let me call myself out because we

48:08

can walk through the world, like

48:10

walk through life, blaming others,

48:12

blaming external factors when we

48:14

also have to take. Some

48:17

measure of responsibility in order for us

48:19

to fully sort of and not everybody wants

48:21

to take that path That's fine, but

48:23

there are people here that are listening I

48:25

know my audience very well that want

48:27

to be the best versions of themselves want

48:29

to understand Maybe why they self -sabotage or

48:31

maybe why they can't fully go through

48:33

like you know actualize on some of the

48:35

goals that they've set for themselves So

48:37

I think that this book is very is

48:39

crucial for understanding You know your internal

48:41

environment and maybe the ways that you have

48:45

like maybe the ways that you've internalized

48:47

things in ways that are not

48:49

optimal. Well, bingo,

48:51

you nailed it. And

48:53

I really wanted to have... You said

48:55

gentle, but firm. I called honest love

48:57

in the book. Honest love. Because I

48:59

see two other extremes prominent. you know,

49:01

either people are coddling the heck out

49:03

of you, you know, like I see

49:05

that on the internet with trauma and

49:07

like, it's okay, you have trauma, like

49:09

just sitting in your bed all day

49:11

and cry. It's like, okay, well, that's

49:13

not empowering, you know. And then on

49:15

the other side, you have the, I

49:17

find them just as annoying to pull

49:19

yourself up by your bootstraps, people who

49:21

are like, you know, stop, stop complaining,

49:23

you know, and just, well, I think that

49:25

both extremes are not helpful. So I

49:27

wanted to kind of present a third

49:29

way, a third way, I call it

49:31

honest love. Beautiful. Where can people

49:33

find your book and find more about you? I

49:36

know that you also have a podcast, so please

49:38

let people know about your podcast and all the

49:40

things. Thank you so much. My

49:42

podcast is called The Psychology Podcast. You

49:44

can find that wherever you get your

49:46

podcasts. My book is now on Amazon. Wherever

49:48

you get your books, you can get

49:50

Rise Above, wherever you get your podcasts, you

49:52

can get The Psychology Podcast. You can

49:55

go to ScottBerryColfman .com if you want to

49:57

contact me, though. You know, I'm accepting marriage

49:59

proposals. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Am

50:01

I joking though? Am I? But no, it

50:03

was a real honor to be on

50:05

your podcast, Dr. Stephanie. Real honor. Yeah. Thank

50:07

you so much. Thank you. All

50:11

right, so here is the Easter

50:13

egg at the end of the episode,

50:15

my thoughts and takeaways from this

50:17

interview and the book at large. I

50:19

actually loved this book because it's

50:21

one of the way that this book

50:23

is written is that it really

50:26

forces you to sort of look at

50:28

yourself rather than blaming, you know,

50:30

your environment or your past. So I

50:32

really loved that. And some of

50:34

the my favorite parts of our conversation

50:36

were when we were getting into

50:38

the, what were the qualifiers of being

50:40

a victim mindset and in all

50:42

truthfulness, transparency and honesty, like I could

50:44

see myself in some of those

50:46

qualifiers that Dr. Kaufman was describing. I

50:48

really loved the part where he

50:51

was talking about asking the question

50:53

what versus asking the question why.

50:55

So instead of why is this

50:57

happening to me? Why does this

50:59

always happen this way? What's, you

51:01

know, asking this question like, what

51:03

am I feeling? What is

51:05

going on right now? What is the

51:07

situation? And being able to ask the

51:09

what in order to get to the

51:11

core feeling or the true feeling rather

51:13

than this maybe more of a victim

51:15

mindset, like why does this always happen

51:17

to me? Why do I always have

51:19

this stress? Why is there always a

51:21

thousand things going on? So I really

51:24

loved that. I also

51:26

really liked the idea that

51:28

we can do hard things,

51:30

like we can do uncomfortable

51:32

things, whether that is feeling

51:34

uncomfortable feelings or doing things

51:36

that make us scared or

51:38

that we might otherwise shy

51:40

away from as a way

51:43

to expand our comfort zone.

51:45

So he talked about this

51:47

idea of hard feelings, you

51:49

know, anxiety, sadness, shame, being

51:51

able to be a bit more

51:53

careful with them, not to just shove

51:55

them somewhere and try to ignore

51:57

them, but to actually listen to them,

51:59

spend some time with them in

52:01

the same way that we might spend

52:03

time with joy or happiness or

52:05

relations. I really loved that. And

52:08

then the last thing that I loved,

52:10

he was talking about this idea that highly

52:12

sensitive people can also be jerks. I

52:14

believe he used the word a whole, but

52:16

you know, you can be a highly

52:18

sensitive person. And in so far as that

52:20

is a, that can be positive because

52:23

you are going to be able to be

52:25

able to delineate your internal emotional environment,

52:27

but it doesn't get you off the hook

52:29

for being a jerk. So we gave

52:31

a couple of examples, Kanye West, for example,

52:33

is like, I'm just a highly sensitive

52:35

person or an introvert, but. you know, then

52:37

he, you know, treats people, you know,

52:39

maybe not in the best way. I don't

52:41

actually follow Kanye West. So I didn't

52:43

really get the reference if I'm being totally

52:45

honest, but, you know, he's like a,

52:47

you know, an introvert who doesn't, you know,

52:49

or a highly sensitive person that doesn't

52:52

like taking into account other people's feelings. So

52:54

I thought that those were all really,

52:56

really great. And of course, Dr. Kaufman himself,

52:58

self admittedly a very highly sensitive person

53:00

as well. So appreciated that. From

53:02

a male perspective, I think males are

53:04

often told to like suck it up buttercup

53:06

I really liked that he was vulnerable

53:08

enough and open enough to to say that

53:10

yeah, I'm a sensitive person I'm a

53:12

highly sensitive person. This is how that helps

53:14

me govern and show up in my

53:16

life So I hope that you enjoyed this

53:18

conversation and that you share it far

53:20

and wide or even if you just listen

53:22

to it another time in your own

53:24

Journey to self actualization and when we say

53:27

self actualization would just mean becoming the

53:29

better Version of yourself not the best version

53:31

because that's not the philosophy of the

53:33

show, but becoming the better version of yourself.

53:36

Take good care. All right, all

53:38

right, I hope you enjoyed

53:40

today's episode. And I must

53:42

give you the obligatory legal

53:44

and medical disclaimer here. This

53:46

podcast, better with Dr. Stephanie,

53:49

is for general information only.

53:51

And the advice, recommendations we

53:53

discuss, do not

53:55

replace medicine chiropractic or

53:57

any other primary health

54:00

care providers advice, treatment

54:02

or care. In the consumption

54:04

of this podcast, there is no

54:06

doctor relationship that has been

54:08

formed and the use and implementation

54:10

of the information discussed are

54:12

at the sole discretion of the

54:14

listener. The information and opinions

54:16

shared on this podcast are not

54:18

intended to be a substitute

54:20

for primary care, diagnosis or treatment.

54:23

In other words, guys, be smart about

54:25

this, take it with a grain

54:27

of salt. take this information to your

54:29

primary health provider and have a

54:32

discussion with him or her to make

54:34

the best choice that is for

54:36

you. Remember, I am a doctor, but

54:38

I am not your doctor and

54:40

these conversations are meant for educational purposes

54:42

only.