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and welcome back to Beyond the To-Do

0:49

List, a podcast about productivity. I'm your

0:51

host, Eric Fisher. This week I'm excited

0:53

to bring back to the show Dr.

0:56

Michael Bruce to talk about his brand

0:58

new book, Sleep, Drink, Breathe. Simple daily

1:00

habits for profound long-term health and if

1:02

you've enjoyed any of the episodes that

1:04

we've done with him before You know

1:07

that he is awesome. He's usually talking

1:09

about he's usually talking about sleep only

1:11

But this time we're talking about overall

1:13

health and one-third of the topics as

1:15

you can gather is about sleep But

1:18

we're talking about breathing and why that

1:20

matters. We're talking about hydration and why

1:22

that matters and then obviously sleep and

1:24

boy do I have questions for him

1:27

on all three of those and why

1:29

he chose those as the three key

1:31

simple daily habits and not just the

1:34

why but the how because you would

1:36

be thinking well I already breathe so

1:38

what's the issue and I sleep every

1:40

night and I drink every day hopefully

1:43

the right things and that's exactly what

1:45

we get into so jump on in

1:47

and enjoy this conversation with

1:50

Dr. Michael Bruce. Well this week it

1:52

is my privilege to welcome back to

1:54

the show. Dr. Michael Bruce, Michael, welcome

1:56

back to Beyond the To-do list. Thanks

1:58

for having a year, I'm excited to

2:00

be here as always. This is such

2:03

a fun show. Yes, I love having

2:05

you back. I remember the first time,

2:07

and I'm trying to think if it

2:09

was, it was probably around 2015, when

2:11

did the chronotype book come out? Twenty?

2:13

Fifteen? About then. Somewhere? Yeah, I think

2:15

it was around fifteen. Honestly, I can't

2:17

remember. Fifteen, again, eight years, eight or

2:20

nine years ago, something like. Yep, yep,

2:22

yep, yep. And it was really a

2:24

cool book to write and it was

2:26

a lot of fun because people really

2:28

gravitated towards it and they took the

2:30

quiz and they learned what their chronotype

2:32

was. And I really feel like it

2:34

was kind of one of those books

2:36

that was fun to read, you could

2:38

learn something and then apply it to

2:41

make your life a little bit better.

2:43

It wasn't like this. super serious parker

2:45

about sleep and oh my gosh you're

2:47

doing all these things wrong and all

2:49

that other crap it was much more

2:51

like lighthearted yeah and in fact I

2:53

do remember where I was living at

2:55

the time that I was reading the

2:57

book so it was 2016 so but

2:59

you've done other things you you continually

3:02

are learning studying growing teaching and you've

3:04

had another book come out and now

3:06

another new one and so I think

3:08

this is your like third or fourth

3:10

time I think one of the times

3:12

I did or like a replay as

3:14

a revisit at some point, just to

3:16

bring it back up to the top

3:18

of the, you know, top of mind,

3:20

I think it was chronotype stuff. But

3:23

this one's interesting because, and I almost

3:25

wonder, are you doing like an e-pray

3:27

love, homage here, because it's sleep, drink,

3:29

grieve, simple, I thought so, simple daily

3:31

habits for long-term health. How did this

3:33

one come about? Why this one and

3:35

why now? I go to the gym

3:37

every day and I sometimes I'm at

3:39

the gym and like I'm 56 years

3:42

old right I'm walking around doing my

3:44

stuff at the gym and there's all

3:46

the other people who are roughly my

3:48

age and this woman gets up and

3:50

she just stands there and she's just

3:52

confused right and so I walk over

3:54

to her and I'm like are you

3:56

okay like something wrong and she's like

3:58

I just don't know where to start.

4:00

And I started thinking about that

4:03

comment and I was like, so I helped

4:05

her out and I should stretch here, you

4:07

know, do a little warm up here and

4:09

then, you know, maybe do some buys, you

4:12

know, like I kind of came up with

4:14

an exercise program for, but it dawned on

4:16

me that so many people don't know where

4:18

to start, right? And when you start

4:20

to think about it, you're like, wow,

4:22

I wonder, I wonder what that means,

4:24

like, like why is it's so difficult.

4:26

and it talks about all these different

4:28

ideas of things that you can learn

4:30

and grow with over time. And he

4:32

came up with this concept called dominoes.

4:34

And so a domino is a skill

4:36

that you acquire and then once you

4:38

get it, it allows you to knock

4:40

down and have other skills that kind

4:42

of click through, right? So kind of

4:44

like, you know, I crawl, then I

4:46

walk, then I run, right? So those are

4:49

the dominoes of running. And so, I

4:51

said to myself, what are the dominoes of

4:53

wellness? Like, what are the essentials, essentials,

4:55

essentials? Because, like, I'm sitting here in

4:58

the gym, people can't, people don't know

5:00

if they should drink a green drink,

5:02

hop in a sauna, you know, have

5:05

a cold plunge, and I'm sitting here

5:07

and I'm like, hold tight, this

5:09

isn't that, this isn't that complicated.

5:11

Okay, like, sleep, drink, breathe, right?

5:13

Like, well, this is too complicated. But

5:15

it's true. And when you start to

5:18

look at it, you start to think.

5:20

Like, there's so many people that are

5:22

kind of on this confusion wheel when

5:24

it comes to wellness. Like, where do

5:26

I go? I mean, there are people

5:28

who are, they don't want to go

5:30

to the gym because they feel intimidated.

5:33

They don't know if they should buy

5:35

running shoes because they're expensive. You know

5:37

what I'm saying? Like, nobody really kind

5:39

of knows what to buy running shoes

5:41

because they're expensive. You know what

5:43

I'm saying? Like, nobody really kind

5:46

of knows what to do. And then I

5:48

realize they want to or not. You can

5:50

go a like time without exercising. You

5:52

can actually make it for 30 days

5:54

or longer without food. But you ain't

5:56

making it more than about five or

5:59

six minutes. without air. You're certainly

6:01

not making it very far without water. Maybe

6:03

two days, maybe. And now you could go

6:05

ways without sleep. There was a guy who

6:07

held the record, I think it was 11

6:09

days without sleep, and he was allusinating by

6:12

day eight. It was kind of a mess.

6:14

So I said, let's look at these three

6:16

behaviors and see if we can find what

6:18

are some of the easiest ways that we

6:20

can just get people to start doing these

6:22

in a healthy way so they can start,

6:25

like where the starting line for wellness. I

6:27

think it. Now I will tell you that

6:29

the eat prey love has definitely come up

6:31

and to be honest with you I thought

6:33

it was a good book and I thought

6:35

it was a good title and so I

6:38

kind of went with it. I've honestly never

6:40

seen them I think there's a movie I've

6:42

never seen the movie I've never seen the

6:44

movie I've never seen the movie I've never

6:46

seen the movie I've never read the book

6:48

it just wasn't my thing but it's not

6:50

been on that I've been flipping streaming streaming

6:53

streaming channels correct anyways So, with these three

6:55

dominoes, I get why you've picked them. Obviously,

6:57

one of these dominoes you've had as a

6:59

primary focus of your study and what you've

7:01

been talking about for a long time, and

7:03

then you've got drink, which we're not talking

7:06

like, you know, drinking in the, yeah, it's

7:08

not alcoholic drinking, and then breathing, I already

7:10

do that. How can I get that wrong?

7:12

But go back to the first one, the

7:14

first domino, sleep. There's a lot of people

7:16

that are doing that wrong. They may be

7:19

getting a quantity of good enough quantity, but

7:21

they're not getting quality and we can go

7:23

into that as well. So there's a lot

7:25

of places to go with this. Yeah, and

7:27

if you don't mind, I'd love to address

7:29

that first question that you just basically came

7:32

up with, which is, dude, I breathed. What

7:34

else can I do, right? Like, I've got

7:36

to be doing this correctly. So I thought

7:38

the exact same. thing, right? Because I mean,

7:40

I'm trying to figure out what I want

7:42

to write about, right? And I'm looking at

7:45

breadth work and I'm looking at metadata.

7:47

I'm trying to understand

7:49

like what's going on

7:51

with all of this.

7:53

So it turns out

7:55

people actually breathe incorrectly

7:58

Okay, so let me

8:00

give you some examples,

8:02

right? So a lot

8:04

of people are what

8:06

we call shallow breathers

8:08

They don't actually extend

8:10

the breath through the

8:13

lung. They just kind

8:15

of sit them like Right,

8:18

they're just breathing in and out breathing in and out breathing

8:20

in and out They don't even realize it people

8:23

actually most times forget to take a

8:25

long breath now Here's what's interesting

8:27

is when you only breathe a little

8:29

bit You only use about half

8:31

your lung which means you have to

8:34

breathe twice as fast In order to

8:36

get the same amount of air, right? Because

8:38

you only have half the container, right? That's

8:40

like the basic physics of it all

8:42

So now your heart rate has to

8:44

be elevated in order for you

8:46

to have the air that you

8:48

need With an elevated heart

8:51

rate, right? Because of this shallow

8:53

breathing, you'll never fall asleep, right? You

8:55

have to have a heart rate of 60 or below to

8:57

fall asleep. You never fall asleep Another way that people

8:59

are kind of messing up breathing,

9:01

which again, I had no idea is

9:03

they're doing what's called a Vertical

9:05

breathing not horizontal breathing. I'm like,

9:07

what is that? So when people take

9:10

a big deep breath deep breath in Do

9:12

their shoulders raise because if their

9:15

shoulders raise they are vertically breathing, right?

9:18

But if you take a belly breath, right you

9:20

you expand to the sides,

9:22

right? And that's a deeper breath and

9:24

you get more oxygen in there The other

9:26

areas that I thought were really interesting with

9:28

it like not just that high par bon

9:30

like what are your breath problems because and

9:32

by the way I identify I think I

9:34

oh by the way, here's the book and

9:36

I identify five different Breathing

9:39

problems actually in here, which I think is one

9:41

of those things that people have got to

9:43

start like thinking through like

9:45

do I breathe right? Do I breathe wrong

9:47

things of that nature? So I think

9:49

there's a lot that people can look at

9:51

from that standpoint But you know, the

9:53

other big thing is congestion, right? So a lot

9:55

of people don't think about this, but like the

9:58

good news is we're walking into the winter. So less

10:00

allergies, less particulates in the air, but

10:02

you know, I don't know about you

10:04

dude, but like I get allergies and

10:06

it's awful and I get this awful

10:09

nasal congestion and then I'm become a

10:11

mouth breather at night, then my throat

10:13

gets all dry, and you know what

10:15

I'm saying? Like I'm not breathing well.

10:17

And so another area that we like

10:19

to think about is keeping the nasal

10:22

passages clear of congestion, right? So, and

10:24

like again, a lot of people don't

10:26

think about this as a startup for

10:28

wellness. is go buy an air filter

10:31

for your room. Just one. Small air

10:33

filter, put it in the corner.

10:35

It'll probably cost you about 30

10:37

bucks. And you have just made

10:39

your first step into wellness. Because

10:41

think about it. The cleanliness of

10:43

the air in the room that

10:45

you sleep in is of paramount

10:47

importance because it's the room you

10:49

spend the most time in in your entire

10:52

house. Right? So again, it's not that

10:54

anybody's breathing wrong. It's just that there

10:56

are better and more efficient ways to

10:58

go about doing this where we can

11:00

actually do it in a healthy way

11:03

and kind of get some wellness points,

11:05

you know, if you will. Yeah, a

11:07

couple of things there. One is when

11:09

we got our, I think it was

11:11

two years ago, 22, something like that,

11:13

new furnace, new AC unit in the

11:16

house, and they said, well, we've got

11:18

it because of the model that

11:20

you're getting, it's got this new

11:22

filter, it's like laser... Zapping and

11:24

stuff and I'm just like, oh, that's

11:26

so cool. Well, honestly, I've noticed that

11:28

when we have it running on circulate,

11:31

not auto or off, but on circulate,

11:33

it just circulates the air and it's

11:36

pushing everything that's in the house through

11:38

that to continually do it and it's

11:40

not that big a house. So we've

11:43

pretty much got that covered and we've

11:45

all noticed we've had a pretty good

11:47

turnover with any of those symptoms. The

11:49

other thing is that I had to

11:52

have sinus surgery. When was that?

11:54

2020? 2020? Late 2020? Talk about

11:56

story. You're just like... Not that

11:58

long to go. It's just this COVID-ended?

12:01

Oh my God. It was the middle

12:03

of it. Yeah, it was this like,

12:05

well, and it was because entering into

12:07

COVID, I was having in that season,

12:09

up till that season of my life,

12:12

from about high school till about then,

12:14

I was having on average one or

12:16

two sinus infections a year, pretty massive.

12:18

They would clog me up, I wouldn't

12:20

fight them, I'd have to get on

12:23

antibiotics and everything like that. I was,

12:25

which is not good. My hearing was

12:27

gone. or dramatically reduced. I had to

12:29

have a hearing test. They were like,

12:31

yeah, you're different. Something's gone wrong. So

12:33

then I went to this allergist. They

12:36

figured out with a sinus x-ray that

12:38

my stuff was close. So after all

12:40

that, though, figured out that one of

12:42

the other things was, and I'm going

12:44

to put this in the show notes,

12:47

by the way, that kind of do

12:49

the irrigation. I love them. There's one

12:51

that I found that is the least

12:53

done one that's easy to use because

12:55

they make a mess for me. Oh

12:58

my gosh. It's called it's called Navage

13:00

and it is got two prongs. And

13:02

you put it up. Yes. And you

13:04

push a button. Totally know what you're

13:06

talking about. And my kids who were

13:08

so averse to it loved doing it

13:11

because of the relief it gives. And

13:13

so this time of year, this is

13:15

when like I think I. I did

13:17

one yesterday, I didn't do one today

13:19

because I didn't need it, but it's

13:22

like I'll often do one sometime in

13:24

the morning and sometime in the evening

13:26

just to kind of clear out before

13:28

sleep and after sleep and it works.

13:30

So this is exactly what I'm talking

13:32

about, right? So you breathe, you've been

13:35

breathing your entire life, but yet you've

13:37

discovered that there is something about your

13:39

breathing that needs to be maintained or

13:41

fixed due with this Nabaj system. Right,

13:43

like I don't, I, to be clear,

13:46

neither of us have any affiliation with

13:48

Nabaj, if we're just talking about this

13:50

as a technique, right? And so, like,

13:52

again, this is the entire reason why

13:54

I wrote the book, sleep, drink, read,

13:57

right, is because if you don't think

13:59

about these things, you don't realize, let

14:01

me give you an example. So if

14:03

you have a congested nose, you don't

14:05

get enough oxygen in. There are breathing

14:07

techniques that when you lower your oxygen,

14:10

it changes your mood. In fact, you

14:12

get into a pretty crappy mood when

14:14

you're doing this, right? Generally speaking, we

14:16

don't want to be in bad moods.

14:18

We'd like to be in positive moods.

14:21

And so being able to breathe actually

14:23

helps you stay in positive moods because

14:25

you're getting air to your brain, which

14:27

is fuel, right? And so, again, let's

14:29

make it simple. And so the book

14:32

actually has a plan to it. It's

14:34

a three week plan. Not like you're

14:36

going to have to do this for

14:38

12 weeks, okay? I want to be

14:40

super strict on this. It's three weeks,

14:42

okay? And it gives, what I ask

14:45

you to do is I ask you

14:47

to take your phone and to set

14:49

alarms at five different times throughout the

14:51

day. And at each one of those

14:53

times, I just ask you to do

14:56

a few particular things. In some cases,

14:58

it might be a type of breathing

15:00

technique. reading technique. What are you talking

15:02

about Michael? Breathing in, breathing out. So

15:04

it turns out that there's an entire

15:06

universe of this stuff called rhetoric. And

15:09

it's from ancient times. This is not

15:11

some new woo woo California thing that

15:13

somebody's come up with. Okay, where we

15:15

can actually use breathing to increase our

15:17

heart rates or decrease our heart rates

15:20

as an example. Now many people who

15:22

are listening have actually done this before,

15:24

right? So as you're lying in bed.

15:26

as your breath starts to slow down,

15:28

so does your heart rate and you

15:31

begin to relax. But then if somebody

15:33

comes crashing through the door, what happens?

15:35

Your heart rate spins up and you,

15:37

and now you're more alert, right? You

15:39

breathing spins up and now you're more

15:41

alert. So breathing can actually modulate your

15:44

alertness or your sleepiness. Again, these are

15:46

all tools that we can use without

15:48

having to use drugs, right? Because the

15:50

goal here is to not have to

15:52

take a drug. or a supplement every

15:55

night to fall asleep. Now I also

15:57

want to be super, deeper clear, and

15:59

I think I've said this year before,

16:01

but there's nothing. wrong with being on

16:03

a medication for sleep. Like that is

16:05

a relationship between you and your doctor.

16:08

There is no pill shaming going on

16:10

here. However, if you're not comfortable on

16:12

your drug, then number one, talk to

16:14

your doctor. Don't just pull yourself off

16:16

drug ever. It's a terrible, terrible idea

16:19

I have patients who end up in

16:21

the ER for doing stuff like that.

16:23

But if you're not comfortable, it's okay

16:25

to have a conversation with your doctor

16:27

to say, you know what, I've been

16:30

on this medication for a while. and

16:32

I wanted to find out if there's

16:34

a way that I don't have to

16:36

stay on it, and what could I

16:38

do? That's called cognitive behavioral therapy. We

16:40

pull people off of medication all the

16:43

time with their doctor's permission. I want

16:45

to be hyper clear about that. Nobody

16:47

who does cognitive behavior therapy is qualified

16:49

to tell people how to taper their

16:51

medication. So we work in conjunction with

16:54

their doctors in order to do so.

16:56

But it's just another example of how

16:58

all of these things kind of coales

17:00

and come together, and they're easy. And

17:02

they're easy. Like this isn't hard. Like

17:04

set your phone alarm through five different

17:07

times in the day and I ask

17:09

you to, you know, try a different

17:11

breathing technique. At the end of the

17:13

day, you're going to learn something and

17:15

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17:18

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17:20

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17:22

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17:24

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20:20

lot of people out there are like,

20:22

well I'm already breathing, like I'm not

20:24

doing it wrong, they don't know or

20:26

they don't have this awareness of... How? Or

20:29

the benefits? The benefits. How much

20:31

more benefit there is to proper

20:33

breathing than what they're doing right

20:35

now? That is correct. And that is

20:37

why the book has three sections. Because

20:40

if you don't want to learn about breathing,

20:42

I don't care. Don't. There are two

20:44

other sections in the book of stuff

20:46

that you could start on, right? Start

20:48

on sleep or start on hydration.

20:50

If breathwork isn't your thing and

20:53

you say, ah, this guy's full of it,

20:55

I breathe just fine. I'm okay with that.

20:57

Do you drink just fine? Are you

20:59

sure you're hydrated all the time? Yeah,

21:01

I'm sure I'm hydrated. I

21:03

bet you're not. A lot of

21:05

people don't even realize the level

21:08

of hydration that's necessary. One of

21:10

the easiest ways to figure out if

21:12

you're hydrated, by the way, is based

21:15

on the color of your urine. So

21:17

what's interesting is in India. They

21:19

have these color charts in

21:21

every public bathroom. And you look

21:23

down in the toilet and the

21:25

toilet bowl. your the color of

21:27

your urine is getting darker this

21:29

means you have less water in

21:31

your body right so that's another thing

21:33

to kind of think through my favorite

21:36

by the way water mistake out there

21:38

I mean this is a big one

21:40

is gulping versus sipping so I can't

21:42

believe this I see this happened

21:44

at the gym all the time I'm at

21:46

the gym a lot obviously so I'm at

21:49

the gym filling up by water bottle and

21:51

this woman she had she had her water

21:53

bottle is halfway full and she pulled it

21:55

away from the powder and she went good

21:58

good good good and she literally down half

22:00

the bottle, that she'd put her thing

22:02

back in and filled it up again,

22:04

and she was walking away. And I

22:07

said to where I said, you know,

22:09

you should probably sip it, not guzzle

22:11

it. And what she said to me,

22:14

which is something that I think everybody

22:16

says, is she was like, I got

22:18

to get it in. She was like,

22:20

I know I'm not going to get

22:23

enough ounces in, and so I'm just

22:25

trying to get as much into my

22:27

system. So here's where that's a problem.

22:30

Let me use an example of a

22:32

kitchen sponge, okay? When you walk out

22:34

in the morning, right, and you look

22:36

at the kitchen's sake, and there's this

22:39

square, it's like this shrunken little blue

22:41

thing that's hard as a rock, right?

22:43

Now, if you put that under the

22:46

faucet and you open up the faucet

22:48

full blast, like your gulping water, what

22:50

happens? The water hits the sponge, it

22:52

absorbs. and it slowly forms and it

22:55

opens up and now you have a

22:57

usable tool. You are the sponge, okay?

22:59

Every single morning you wake up, dehydrated

23:02

and fur. What we have to do

23:04

is slowly get your water in you.

23:06

Otherwise it literally shoots right through you,

23:08

doesn't absorb and you're not doing a

23:11

good job, right? So the way in

23:13

which you drink water, but the way

23:15

in which you drink water becomes important.

23:17

It's very hard to convince people too,

23:20

by the way. I'd rather you take

23:22

15 minutes to sit 15 ounces of

23:24

water than drink 40 ounces of water

23:27

in the same 15 minutes. Nobody seems

23:29

to be able to grasp this idea

23:31

and what I'm trying to tell people

23:33

is it's not working for you. Now

23:36

I also brought up another point that

23:38

I want to jump onto if I

23:40

may, which is how much water in

23:43

a day should somebody have? This is

23:45

an extremely common question and I actually

23:47

figured out the answer. And I made

23:49

it super simple. The goal of the

23:52

book again, remember Erica, is to make

23:54

everything really simple. Because my job is

23:56

to go through all the science. and

23:59

make it so that everybody who reads

24:01

or who listens can be able to

24:03

function and do this quite quickly, right?

24:05

So how much water do we need?

24:08

So it's kind of crazy when you

24:10

start to look at the literature. There

24:12

are some groups that say you need

24:15

to drink 120 ounces a day. There

24:17

are some groups that say you need

24:19

60 ounces a day. So the spread

24:21

is tremendous. After reading the literature, one

24:24

of the things I wanted to understand

24:26

was water uptake, so water absorption and

24:28

water turnover, so how quickly do our

24:31

cells use the water, and then when

24:33

would we need more? If you add

24:35

it all together, I came up with

24:37

a super simple formula. You take your

24:40

weight in pounds, you multiply it by

24:42

0.6, and that will tell you exactly

24:44

the number of ounces that you need

24:47

in a 24-hour period. You work out

24:49

for half an hour, add 12 ounces.

24:51

If you work out for an hour,

24:53

add 24 ounces. That's it. That's the

24:56

whole formula. Okay? So if you work

24:58

out for an hour, so for every

25:00

half an hour, add 12 ounces, basically.

25:03

So your weight in pounds times, times

25:05

point six, should give you the number.

25:07

So I'll do mine. I'm 160 pounds.

25:09

equals 96 ounces of water a day.

25:12

Okay, that's it. Now I work out

25:14

every day for at least a half

25:16

an hour, so I'm gonna add 12.

25:19

So that puts me at 108 ounces

25:21

a day. That's a lot of freaking

25:23

water. Right? And if you're gulping it

25:25

down. So how am I going to

25:28

get that much water? I'm hitting my

25:30

steps, so to speak. Like I've got

25:32

my steps. Right. Right. So now the

25:35

question becomes. Okay, that's a lot of

25:37

water, Michael. How's anybody supposed to get

25:39

that much water in there? A couple

25:41

of different tricks. So, number one, drink

25:44

when you eat. Okay, there's also water

25:46

in your food. Also you can have

25:48

a water bottle and be sipping on

25:51

a regular basis and then you just

25:53

track your ounces. The key factor, however,

25:55

has to do with sleep. What you

25:57

don't want to do is that it's

26:00

five o'clock and you've got, you know,

26:02

60 ounces to go. Brother, don't down

26:04

your whole thing then because as we

26:07

were talking about before, it's just not

26:09

going to work. That's also what these

26:11

five separate times throughout the day are.

26:13

in which to plug in and remember

26:16

to have some water. So if the

26:18

phone goes off, you are going to

26:20

learn a breathing technique, you're going to

26:23

drink a little bit of water, and

26:25

then you're just going to go back

26:27

to your day. We do give a

26:29

couple of different things for sleep, where

26:32

I have you take a sleep diary,

26:34

and then I give you the top

26:36

five sleep problems, and I show you

26:39

how to fix those, and there's a

26:41

few things that you would do during

26:43

the day, more stuff to do at

26:45

night, very straightforward. And it's surprising how

26:48

many people are starting to react to

26:50

the plan. All right, I'm going to

26:52

throw something out there that affects all

26:55

three of these things, these dominoes. Let's

26:57

go for it. While we're on this

26:59

topic. So it's the topic of coffee.

27:01

It's caffeine. And so it relates to

27:04

breathing because the caffeine can up your

27:06

heart rate and your breathing. It also

27:08

goes the other way where caffeine can

27:11

wreck your sleep, especially with the half-life

27:13

and it's still in your body, late

27:15

at night. But the middle one that

27:17

we're on right now is why I

27:20

bring it up is the whole diuretic

27:22

of it and people say, well, drinking

27:24

coffee, you're not really drinking. You're just,

27:27

you're actually, it dries you out. It's

27:29

not, you're not absorbing it. I have

27:31

heard so many things in one way

27:33

and the other and I'm just confused

27:36

at this point. I have some news

27:38

for you. I heard the same thing,

27:40

and I was like, this is ridiculous.

27:43

We need to figure this out. So

27:45

it turns out that it is about

27:47

the amount of caffeine that you drink

27:49

as to when it becomes a diuretic.

27:52

So. When you go past, isn't that

27:54

interesting? When you go past two cups

27:56

of coffee and you hit your third

27:59

cup of coffee, there's enough communal caffeine

28:01

where it's going to start pulling water

28:03

out of you. But the first two

28:05

cups, you can actually count towards your

28:08

hydration. Okay, so and we're talking how

28:10

it's storage your water average cup of

28:12

coffee What do you think? Well, like

28:15

I've I've heard an average eight ounces

28:17

is like eight ounces a hundred milligrams

28:19

or something is that of caffeine? What

28:21

we're okay? We're working with that. Okay.

28:24

So we're talking two cups. That's about

28:26

200 milligrams. No other people are they're

28:28

drinking, you know mountain dew for the

28:31

same I mean, I don't want to

28:33

you know We're not drink shaming here.

28:35

Yeah, we're not here. There's no drink

28:37

shaming here, right? I agree. But like,

28:40

so basically, I see what you're trying

28:42

to get to. So if you're asking

28:44

me how much caffeine is kind of

28:47

when the switchover seems to occur, as

28:49

a general guideline, I would say once

28:51

you get past 200 milligrams of caffeine,

28:53

caffeine is acting as a diuretic. But

28:56

I want to be super clear. Everybody's

28:58

body is different. Everybody is different. you

29:00

can have two caffeinated beverages to cumulate

29:03

to about 200 milligrams of caffeine. Now,

29:05

by the way, there are some drinks

29:07

out there that have 200 milligrams in

29:09

one drink, okay? Yes. So be careful,

29:12

like monster or amp, and by the

29:14

way, I haven't looked on the labels

29:16

of any of those. I'm not trying

29:19

to pick on any of those. They're

29:21

just the names that kind of come

29:23

to my head. But if that's your

29:25

caffeine of choice, then again, you want

29:28

to limit the amount of cappen. But

29:30

once it hits a particular area in

29:32

terms of amount, it turns into a

29:35

diuretic and it makes your life more

29:37

difficult. Okay, that's really good to know

29:39

for me because I typically am not

29:41

hitting 200 milligrams of caffeine in a

29:44

day these days. Right. So they're good,

29:46

dude. Yeah, I drastically reduced my tolerance

29:48

and my need and all of that.

29:51

And so I mean, I'm having like

29:53

an... ounce cup in the morning that

29:55

I stretch across the morning and I'm

29:57

drinking other I'm drinking water with it

30:00

sipping that too and so we're good.

30:02

Oh no I think you are 100%

30:04

in good shape I wouldn't change a

30:07

thing. So that's really good to know

30:09

I'm loving this this is really helpful

30:11

so um I'm telling you that here's

30:13

what and so let's just take that

30:16

emotion for a half a second yeah

30:18

like that's the point right is you're

30:20

loving talking about the the simple aspects

30:23

of wellness and if I would guess

30:25

you're probably gonna institute some of this

30:27

into your daily routine and the reason

30:29

you are is because it's straightforward and

30:32

it's simple to do and that's what

30:34

we're trying to go for sorry didn't

30:36

mean interrupt yeah no that's good well

30:39

the whole breathing thing and the five

30:41

times a day like I know that's

30:43

stopping and breathing taking a break I

30:45

know the importance of breaks I know

30:48

that Sometimes it's about getting up away

30:50

from the desk. It's flipping all the

30:52

switches. Do the opposite of what you

30:55

were doing. Get off screens, if you

30:57

were on, the other one, you know,

30:59

get up and move, all these things.

31:01

So that reminds me of something. I'm

31:04

curious, this is a question for you

31:06

actually. So I've had this happen to

31:08

me, I'm curious if this happens to

31:10

you. When I get really engrossed in

31:13

like I'm reading something, like either in

31:15

a book or in a book or

31:17

on my computer, I notice, I stop

31:20

breathing. At least intentional like, yeah, I

31:22

mean, I'm doing the bare minimum, I

31:24

guess. I don't know that I've ever

31:26

stopped per se, but yeah. It's like

31:29

I get so zoned in that all

31:31

of a sudden I think to myself

31:33

like, when was the last time I

31:36

took a breath, you know, and then

31:38

all of a sudden I'm like, wait

31:40

a second, I think I need to

31:42

breathe. Like, okay, all right, fine. But

31:45

it's to your point where when we

31:47

get so engrossed and we get so

31:49

focused in an area. we have to

31:52

take breaks because if we don't take

31:54

breaks our body is not going to

31:56

respond well. And I think that's also

31:58

what this is a healthy with is

32:01

those five times a day. Hey, if

32:03

you can take a five minute break.

32:05

five times a day. It really doesn't

32:08

take that much time out of your

32:10

schedule. And this is the easiest way

32:12

to start your wellness routine. I mean,

32:14

look, you can start a wellness routine

32:17

in 25 minutes a day. Like, that's

32:19

pretty easy. Pretty cool. Honestly, this one's,

32:21

I mean, whether you choose breathing or

32:24

you, I mean, everybody wants more sleep

32:26

too, but whether you're choosing, whether you're

32:28

choosing drinking, it's simple, it's easy, I'm

32:30

loving this. So, the absorption thing, I

32:33

want to go back to that for

32:35

just a second. One of the things,

32:37

when I did the whole like, okay,

32:40

it's this much times weight, etc. Oh,

32:42

that's a lot of water. Well, I'm

32:44

going to have to carry this big

32:46

old thing and doing what you were

32:49

saying the woman at the gym was

32:51

doing, I realized, oh, this is not

32:53

comfortable because I just suddenly always have

32:56

to get up and go over and

32:58

over and over again. But when you're

33:00

doing that not reduced amount, but more

33:02

spread out amount, You don't have this

33:05

surplus sitting there constantly that's trying to

33:07

just get, that's not getting used and

33:09

running off the sponge and needing to

33:12

get released from your body. And that's

33:14

the answer. Exactly right. To that. It

33:16

is. Exactly. A lot of people, what

33:18

happens is they don't want to drink

33:21

that much water because they say, I

33:23

don't have to get up in pee

33:25

every 10 minutes. And what you have

33:28

hit upon is the gold nugget. which

33:30

is if you slowly ingest the water

33:32

it gets absorbed you don't have to

33:34

pee. It's not like it's not supposed

33:37

to just go flying out of your

33:39

system but you do have to pee

33:41

if you slam a bottle you know

33:44

five times a day and think that

33:46

you're getting your water in. So you've

33:48

actually you answered your own question but

33:50

I'm glad that you did because it

33:53

actually kind of spreads the point out

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reflects discount. All right let's get into

35:33

this first domino which is now the

35:36

last domino here of sleep. And again

35:38

this is your main topic you've been

35:40

on the show number of times. Sleep

35:42

I can't stress. In fact I'm gonna

35:45

go back and put the other past

35:47

episodes. I'll link up to those so

35:49

that people can jump in. Obviously you

35:52

start with this one in the book

35:54

because it's the year. thing you do.

35:56

But... Well, it's kind of my area.

35:58

It's also, I think, in a lot

36:01

of ways... it's almost the most obvious,

36:03

like, we feel that one, although I

36:05

guess if you're suffering, you feel that

36:08

one too. Yeah, you probably would, you

36:10

probably would. But it's one of the

36:12

ones that like really can, in terms

36:14

of productivity, in terms of this show,

36:17

let's go that route. In terms of

36:19

this show, sleep is the one that's

36:21

gonna really just wreck you because you're

36:24

just gonna be cognitively absent. You've got

36:26

to get more. And you have to,

36:28

and because I have, I've been better.

36:30

I've been better. Yeah, and I mean

36:33

you're living Bruce, right? I mean we've

36:35

talked about your sleep I've been on

36:37

the show of two times like we

36:40

talked about your sleep It's like we

36:42

talked about your sleep is progressively getting

36:44

better and you you recognize like hey,

36:46

this is a good thing. So the

36:49

problems of sleep that I identify in

36:51

the book are more motivational issues. There

36:53

there's some tactics you know me. I'm

36:56

a tactics guy. I tell people what

36:58

to do and how to do it.

37:00

But like here's an example of that

37:02

their sleep problem is going to magically

37:05

go away. Okay? Like, it doesn't work

37:07

that way. I want to be super

37:09

duper clear. If you think that you

37:12

have disrupted sleep, there's a very high

37:14

likelihood. Number one, it's not going to

37:16

go away on its own. But number

37:18

two, it's actually a symptom of another

37:21

crawl. So we know that when your

37:23

sleep becomes messed up in... probably 50

37:25

to 60% of the cases. It's either

37:28

an internal problem, and then 40% of

37:30

the time, it's an external problem, right?

37:32

So environment, medication, caffeine, cannabis is external,

37:34

but internal, that's medical, right? And so

37:37

when you're not sleeping well, and we've

37:39

fixed all the environmental behavioral things, guess

37:41

what? There could be something going on

37:44

with you from a medical standpoint. And

37:46

so I don't, I can't stress enough

37:48

enough that You shouldn't get crappy sleep

37:50

just because you're a parent with three

37:53

kids. Okay? Like, I got lots of

37:55

parents with three kids that get ripped

37:57

raw in sleep. You shouldn't feel like...

38:00

I'm just going to get terrible sleep

38:02

because I'm 60 years old and

38:04

that's how old people sleep. No,

38:06

that's not the case at all. Don't give

38:08

up on your sleep thinking it's

38:10

just going to magically get better or

38:12

that this is just going to magically

38:14

get better or that this is just

38:17

the way it is. I'm here to

38:19

tell you and Eric, you're here to tell

38:21

them that, guess what, you fixed your

38:23

sleep and you feel better. I can

38:25

teach people how to fix their sleep

38:27

and make them so better. The

38:29

second other aspect that I address

38:32

in the book, which I think

38:34

is an important one, is stop

38:36

freaking out about your sleep. Okay?

38:38

So many people, they come up

38:40

to me, I mean, literally everywhere I

38:42

go, I get a, they put their

38:44

phones in my face and they say,

38:47

look at my score from my tracker

38:49

and tell me what's going on, right?

38:51

I don't know you, I don't know

38:53

what your history, I don't know what

38:55

that means, right? You know, and so

38:58

what I want people to understand here

39:00

and what the book I think

39:02

emphasizes, sleep is flexible, right?

39:04

So sleep is not this, I

39:06

have to go to bed at this time,

39:08

I have to wake up at this time.

39:11

I mean, some of those rules can

39:13

apply and then that can be helpful,

39:15

but sleep is flexible, okay? It's

39:17

like going out on a run,

39:20

right? No, of course not. There's

39:22

sticks in the road, there's

39:24

police that come by, there's

39:26

a dog that's barking at

39:28

you, maybe it's raining, maybe

39:30

it's sunny, right? It's different

39:33

every time, but you're still

39:35

doing the same thing, right? I

39:37

think people need to think about

39:39

sleep like that as well. Well,

39:41

the anxiety of sleep, I mean,

39:43

that's the thing for me, one

39:46

of the things that stood out

39:48

to me is when I wake up.

39:50

Except that you're up like this is one

39:52

of the things that's been best for me is

39:54

like if I get up I love it I

39:56

go I I use the restroom I take a

39:59

sip of water I lay back down and

40:01

I see if it takes and

40:03

I don't worry about it anymore

40:05

because I just try again. And

40:07

usually I fall asleep for another

40:09

two cycles, something like that. And

40:11

we're good. And I'm done. So

40:13

it's no problem. So you have

40:15

actually mastered one of the hardest

40:17

components, which is acceptance. It's just

40:19

like, and because here's the thing.

40:21

You know, like, well, let me

40:23

back up. What a lot of

40:25

people do is when that happens,

40:27

they wake up at 2 o'

40:29

o'clock in the morning. they immediately

40:31

get pissed off. They're furious because

40:33

they're like, oh, this is happening

40:35

again, right? Elevates their heart rate.

40:37

Remember, you want a heart rate

40:40

of 60 or below to enter

40:42

into a state of unconsciousness. So

40:44

people being pissed off in the

40:46

middle of the night is not

40:48

a good idea, right? So what

40:50

we try to do is exactly

40:52

what you said. Do a reset.

40:54

Now, I will tell you, for

40:56

some people, I make sure that

40:58

I ask them not to look

41:00

at the clock. They instantly do

41:02

the mental math and then their

41:04

anxiety spikes again, right? So you

41:06

have already figured out you need

41:08

to lie back down and relax.

41:10

There's something called non-sleep deep rest,

41:12

also known as yoga nidra, okay?

41:14

It's great. You can lie in

41:16

a quiescent position. So in the

41:18

dark, where it's quiet with your

41:20

eyes closed, and it's actually rejuvenative.

41:22

I mean, it's not like sleep.

41:24

You could do that for three

41:26

hours and you'd probably get about

41:28

an hours worse of sleep. which

41:30

is exactly what you're doing. And

41:32

you're just saying, hey, let's just

41:34

see if it takes. And if

41:36

it doesn't, I'm still doing something

41:38

that's good for my body. I'm

41:40

lying here, and I'm quiet, and

41:42

I'm relaxed. Right? So you've actually

41:44

overcome what most other people do.

41:46

Now, what I tell a lot

41:48

of people to do, and maybe

41:51

some of your listeners might not

41:53

be as accepting, right? So my

41:55

favorite technique, and this is in

41:57

the book, actually I have at

41:59

least six different breathing. Let me

42:01

explain. So this was a technique

42:03

that was developed by Dr. Andrew

42:05

While I'm not some yogi master,

42:07

I'm not some breathwork expert, okay?

42:09

I'm just a guy, I'm 56

42:11

years old trying to figure out

42:13

how to breathe. And I learned

42:15

these techniques and my favorite one,

42:17

and this is one I teach

42:19

all over the world, is called

42:21

four, seven, eight, breathing. Let me

42:23

explain. So this was a technique

42:25

that was developed by Dr. Andrew

42:27

Wilder. And he actually was developing

42:29

it for the Navy SEALs. And

42:31

so when you're a downrange sniper

42:33

and you're shooting all the way

42:35

down range, if your heart is

42:37

beating too fast, you can actually

42:39

change the trajectory of the bullet.

42:41

So they teach those guys and

42:43

gals to lower their heart rate

42:45

so that they can fire in

42:47

between heartbeats. And so you have

42:49

to get the heartbeat below 60

42:51

in order to do that you,

42:53

most of those snipers are trained,

42:55

they can pull the trigger in

42:57

about a half a second. All

42:59

of us out here were not

43:02

trained, it takes two or three

43:04

seconds oftentimes to pull the trigger.

43:06

So that's right. But it was

43:08

perfect because it gets people below

43:10

60, and that's my magic number,

43:12

right? So it's exactly what it

43:14

sounds like. Breathe in slowly for

43:16

a count of four, hold for

43:18

a count of seven, breathe out

43:20

for a count of eight. Now,

43:22

many people out there have heard

43:24

of this thing called box breathing.

43:26

Breathe in for a count of

43:28

four. This is different. This does

43:30

something a little bit different. And

43:32

a box breathing is a great

43:34

way to relax. 478 breathing is

43:36

a good way to lower your

43:38

heart rate. Also, there's a sneaky

43:40

aspect to this that I really

43:42

like, which is you are forced

43:44

to count how long you're holding

43:46

and breathing. And you can't think

43:48

of anything else when you're counting.

43:50

The biggest problem that I have

43:52

with most of my patients in

43:54

the middle of the night, monkey

43:56

mind, right? their brain turns on

43:58

and they can't turn it off

44:00

and it's going go and golly

44:02

but if you're counting one two

44:04

three four one two, three, four,

44:06

five, six, seven, one, two, three,

44:08

four, five, six, seven, eight, you

44:10

can't think of all your problems

44:13

or whatever it is that's going

44:15

on, and I make you do

44:17

10 to 12 cycles of this,

44:19

because that's what it takes to

44:21

lower that heart rate. Dude, by

44:23

the time they hit the tenth

44:25

cycle, they're in the breath, like

44:27

they're just, they're, they're into it,

44:29

they're breathing. I personally use 478

44:31

breathing right before I go on

44:33

stage. I do two or three

44:35

cycles and helps lower my heart

44:37

rate so I can feel like

44:39

I can perform well. So it's

44:41

something I can use during the

44:43

daytime or the nighttime. Also, just

44:45

to be clear with all of

44:47

the listeners out there, I have

44:49

occasional insomnia. I'm a human, right?

44:51

The sleep doctor does have issues

44:53

with sleep on occasion. This is

44:55

my favorite technique personally to utilize.

44:57

Especially when you wake up in

44:59

the middle of the night, number

45:01

one, supplementation is out. you probably

45:03

shouldn't take a medication because that's

45:05

going to give you an awful

45:07

hangover the next day. And what

45:09

are you going to do besides

45:11

why they're yet pissed off, right?

45:13

I'd rather you distract yourself with

45:15

counting and do some breathing and

45:17

get yourself there. Okay, so speaking

45:19

of medication, obviously we're not pill

45:22

shaming. One of the things that

45:24

I've used slash herd used can

45:26

be overused even is melatonin. What's

45:28

the minimum viable... product or minimum

45:30

lack minimum necessary dose. And let's

45:32

talk like, look, is it habit

45:34

forming? Should we be taking it

45:36

every night? I don't take it

45:38

right now. If I'm really off,

45:40

I'll take it for maybe five,

45:42

seven days straight. And that kind

45:44

of course, correct? Just as an

45:46

extra little oomte. But I know

45:48

you talk about non. You talk

45:50

about eating foods that have melatonin

45:52

in them. And that was new.

45:54

Correct. Yeah, and so first

45:56

of all, I have a whole spiel

45:58

about melatonin. sit back and get ready

46:01

because I'm just going to throw it

46:03

right at you. Right, that's right, but

46:05

then find the head and let's go.

46:07

So first of all, melatonin is a

46:09

hormone. Most people don't know that, okay,

46:12

and it's not regulated by the FDA.

46:14

Remember, you can't go down to your

46:16

local CVS and buy testosterone and estrogen

46:18

and there's a reason for that. Hormones

46:21

are very particular compounds that affect almost

46:23

every single system in the body. They

46:25

have a unique aspect in that they

46:27

are because of the way they are

46:29

structured. They do have tremendous effects all

46:32

over the body. So number one, we

46:34

have an unregulated substance that you can

46:36

ingest and it can have some effects.

46:38

Let's talk about the side effects. Let's

46:41

talk about the effects that melatonin has

46:43

on other medication. Did you know that

46:45

melatonin disrupts birth control? Did you know

46:47

that melatonin disrupts? anti-depressant medication, anti-diabetes medication,

46:49

and high blood pressure medication. It's a

46:52

circadian pacemaker, right? It moves your internal

46:54

biological clock, telling it when to do

46:56

things. So you can't just throw some

46:58

melatonin into a human unit and think

47:01

that it's not going to have a

47:03

pretty big effect. Now, let's talk about

47:05

what happens when you take melatonin for

47:07

an extended period of time. Does your

47:09

brain stop making it? Which is a

47:12

big question that a lot of people

47:14

want to know. There have been at

47:16

least two studies to show that no,

47:18

that is not the case. Okay, so

47:21

you can take it and stop taking

47:23

it. Take it. Stop taking it. There

47:25

really are only four decent use cases

47:27

for melatonin. Jet lag? Shipped work. Something

47:29

called REM behavior disorder where you act

47:32

out your dreams. Actually, there's a fifth

47:34

one. There's some recent data on ADD

47:36

and ADHD with melatonin that looks really

47:38

really promising and then if you had

47:41

a melatonin deficiency with insomnia then it

47:43

would be helpful. But once again I

47:45

want to be very clear to people

47:47

out there. Melatonin is not a sleep

47:49

initiator. Melatonin is a sleep regulator. So

47:52

let me give you a metaphor that

47:54

might be a little easier to understand.

47:56

So when we look at the brain

47:58

for sleep, there are two systems. There's

48:01

sleep drive and there's sleep rhythm. Melatonin

48:03

only affects sleep rhythm. It does not

48:05

affect sleep drive, which is the thing

48:07

that makes you feel sleepy. So as

48:09

an example, if we looked at food

48:12

and food intake. we would say that

48:14

sleep drive is a lot like appetite

48:16

and sleep rhythm is a lot like

48:18

lunchtime. So melatonin changes lunchtime, right? Up

48:21

or down, right? It does not affect

48:23

hunger or appetite of your sleep. And

48:25

that's what people have to start to

48:27

understand. Now here's another thing that's kind

48:29

of weird is they didn't study about

48:32

six years ago where they pulled 30

48:34

different brands off the shelf, opened them

48:36

up, tested them, not a single brand.

48:38

had on the label what was in

48:41

the pill, not one, okay? The appropriate

48:43

dose of melatonin is somewhere between a

48:45

half and one and a half milligrams,

48:47

okay? Listen to what I've said, between

48:49

a half and one and a half

48:52

milligrams. It's almost impossible to point. I

48:54

can't find it in anything less than

48:56

three, five, ten milligram gummies. They're everywhere,

48:58

okay? And it's all synthetically made melatonin.

49:00

There's literally only one company I'm aware

49:03

of, I have no affiliation with them,

49:05

that makes natural-based melatonin. They actually make

49:07

it from seagrass, believe it or not,

49:09

and it's called herbatone. Once again, no

49:12

affiliation, but their science is freaking awesome.

49:14

I love those guys, so I'm always

49:16

happy to talk about people who do

49:18

good science. But they also have the

49:20

right dose. They only sell it in

49:23

0.3 to 1.5 milligrams, which you almost

49:25

can't. It's not just pop the pill

49:27

and hope it works and make. fall

49:29

back to sleep, which is what 99%

49:32

of people do. You really have to

49:34

think through this idea of nullitone. Also,

49:36

one last point, I know I told

49:38

you I was going to kind of

49:40

go off here, so one last point,

49:43

is if you take it in a

49:45

tablet, it takes almost 90 minutes for

49:47

it to take an effect. But if

49:49

you take it as a droter or

49:52

a liquid under your tongue, you can

49:54

get it up in it in about

49:56

25 minutes. So the form factor even

49:58

has an effect on when it becomes

50:00

effective. If that makes any sense. It

50:03

does. That is incredibly helpful because I've

50:05

only ever seen it as a pill

50:07

form of three, five, seven. Exactly. And

50:09

I've just been like, well, why would

50:12

you take three if, I mean, why

50:14

would you take ten? If three's all

50:16

you need, turns out that's not even

50:18

the case. And it's like, oh, you

50:20

want to know the reason why they

50:23

made tens? So here's what it is.

50:25

This is fascinating. So, out of MIT,

50:27

there was a Dr. And he did

50:29

all the studies and actually discovered the

50:32

correct dose of melatonin to reach plasma

50:34

concentration levels where your circadian system adopts

50:36

it and uses it. And then he

50:38

patented the dose. And everybody else who

50:40

wanted to make melatonin was going to

50:43

have to pay him a licensing fee

50:45

for his dose. And so they all

50:47

just said screw it. Well, just double

50:49

the dose or triple the dose. So

50:52

they really didn't care. And that's why

50:54

we have melatonin at three, six, and

50:56

ten milligrams all over the place. Oh

50:58

my gosh. Isn't that crazy? Like it's

51:00

just people don't think, right? It's like,

51:03

this is a hormone that you're sticking

51:05

in your body, folks. Like, think about

51:07

what you're doing before you do it.

51:09

Now, your practice of kind of bringing

51:12

yourself back online, I don't think I

51:14

have a big problem with you. Say,

51:16

hey, I'm going to use it for

51:18

seven days or something like that. Or,

51:20

hey, Michael, I'm going to Europe. When

51:23

should I use it? thing. I'll never

51:25

probably that. But generally speaking, Melatonin is

51:27

not a sleep supplement. Melatonin is a

51:29

time shifter. It's funny that you just

51:32

said time shifter because there was totally

51:34

this app. I just had a friend

51:36

who asked me about it. That call

51:38

you all about the time shifter app.

51:40

Call and type shifter app and it's

51:43

like it gives you the difference. It

51:45

tells you when to get sunlight, when

51:47

to have caffeine, when to when to

51:49

have sun, when to take melatonin, when

51:52

not to. And when to take melatonin,

51:54

and when not to. And I did

51:56

it once. And I did it once.

51:58

And it was only a three hour.

52:00

time zone difference, but I was going

52:03

to be in that time zone for

52:05

a week and then come back. And

52:07

this was, I don't know, three, four

52:09

years ago, something like that. And I

52:11

used the app and acclimated to Pacific

52:14

Coast, I'm on East Coast time, I

52:16

acclimated to Pacific Coast immediately, was on

52:18

that time for the whole time I

52:20

was there, and then started with the

52:23

app transitioning back, and then got back

52:25

and had no jet lag on either

52:27

side of the trip. and loved it.

52:29

So I'm going to put that in

52:31

the show notes too. It's funny that

52:34

you mention that. So I want to

52:36

be super duper clear that you have

52:38

no idea what I'm about to say.

52:40

I do not. No, I have no

52:43

idea. So I am an investor and

52:45

potential partial developer of the Time Shifter

52:47

app. That's amazing. It makes sense to

52:49

me. I am not surprised now that

52:51

I find this out. Yeah. They're all

52:54

my friends and and let me tell

52:56

you the story because it's really interesting.

52:58

So I'm kind of a space nerd

53:00

as you know we were talking before

53:03

and I was I was remarking about

53:05

all your cool Star Wars stuff and

53:07

so I follow NASA and all this

53:09

stuff so I don't know if you

53:11

knew this dude but like on the

53:14

space station is going around the earth

53:16

at 17,500 miles an hour like it's

53:18

moving pretty quick and in a 24-hour

53:20

period they get 16 sunrise and sunsets.

53:23

Okay, can you imagine how messed up

53:25

their circadian rhythms are? Right. It's awful.

53:27

So they called this buddy of mine

53:29

at Harvard, Dr. Stephen Lockley, and they're

53:31

like Stephen. To be clear, if you

53:34

do something wrong on the space station,

53:36

people die, right? Like you leave the

53:38

airlock open because your sleep deprived, the

53:40

whole place gets wiped out. Like every

53:43

single piece of equipment up there is

53:45

worth millions and millions of dollars. And

53:47

by the way, you can't just go

53:49

order it from Amazon and have it

53:51

delivered the next day, right? So big

53:54

problems with sleep up there. So on

53:56

the next round of the shuttle, we

53:58

actually created a lighting system, sending it

54:00

up into the space station, and created

54:03

ships. So there was a morning shift,

54:05

a midship, and a night ship. And

54:07

once we figured out how to get

54:09

them in and around there, again, this

54:11

is all Dr. Lockley's work, not mine,

54:14

they said, all right, we've got that

54:16

algorithm, now we're going to bring it

54:18

down terrestrially, and they put it into

54:20

the Mercedes-Benz formula one race card team

54:23

with Lewis Hamilton, right? So Lewis, so

54:25

because remember, I don't know if you

54:27

follow F1, I'm a big F1 fan,

54:29

they're in, they're in a different podium,

54:31

they're in a different podium, they're in

54:34

a different podium, and their owner off

54:36

the podium on thousands of a second,

54:38

right? And like you win an F1,

54:40

that's a million bucks. You come in

54:43

second place, it's a whole lot less,

54:45

right? And so this was a great

54:47

pressure test for the algorithm. We crushed

54:49

it and then we created the app

54:51

called Time Shifter. So for folks out

54:54

there who want to check it out,

54:56

you can get it in the app

54:58

store. It's an amazing app. I personally

55:00

don't get anything from promoting it other

55:03

than I am an original. we just

55:05

crossed our one billionth user, which is

55:07

pretty cool. That's amazing. I am so

55:09

glad to hear that story and that

55:11

you're connected with it because again, I've

55:14

used it to great success and I

55:16

always, I mean, constantly telling people when

55:18

I have friends that have come over

55:20

from Europe for conferences over here, they'll,

55:23

hey, what's that app again? Oh, it's

55:25

this one. So that's awesome. Oh, yeah,

55:27

every time I'm flying. Like if I'm

55:29

in the airport and I notice that

55:31

people are going to be going on

55:34

an international flight, I'm like, hey, you

55:36

need to download Timeshifter. Trust me on

55:38

this one. It's amazing. A lot of

55:40

people like it. A lot of people

55:42

have it. So yeah, it's been around

55:45

for a while too. I think 20,

55:47

late, 20, 17, 18, 19, somewhere in

55:49

there, I think is when it first

55:51

started to become aware of it. So.

55:54

Well, and to be there when COVID

55:56

hit, it was rough because yes, everybody

55:58

stopped traveling. And what we ended up

56:00

doing was moving from jet lag to

56:02

ship work. And so we pivoted. Yeah.

56:05

And it's a lot of the same

56:07

stuff that goes on, right? When you're

56:09

jet lag versus like you have a

56:11

mic ship job. So we went into

56:14

that whole area and started to understand

56:16

that better. And now we actually have,

56:18

we have time shifter work and we

56:20

have time shifter jet lag. So that

56:22

way you can, because you can plug

56:25

in your ships, because you know, your

56:27

ships change, right? And you might be

56:29

on the morning ship and the midship,

56:31

and you can plug it all in,

56:34

and then we tell you, hey, hey,

56:36

here's when you get, here's when you

56:38

get, here's when you get, here's when

56:40

you get, here's when you get, here's

56:42

when you get, Oh, that's great. That's

56:45

going to help a lot of people

56:47

too. I'm going to find that and

56:49

put that in also. So, okay. So

56:51

the book is coming out and you've

56:54

got pre-order bonuses. I want to get

56:56

everybody moved in. I also want you

56:58

to mention your newsletter because I get

57:00

that once a week, twice a week.

57:02

It feels like it's fairly regular and

57:05

I'm like, oh, save that one, save

57:07

that one. Well, you're super kind. So,

57:09

like, for example, if people wanted to

57:11

learn about what their... chronotype-wise, which we've

57:14

talked about before. If you go to

57:16

kronoquiz.com, then you get automatically enrolled in

57:18

my newsletter. Or if you just wander

57:20

over to the sleepdoctor.com, you can sign

57:22

up there for my newsletter and we

57:25

produce a weekly newsletter where we give

57:27

you all kinds of really good information.

57:29

We try to do it in a

57:31

way where we're giving you like some

57:34

good medical information and some information of

57:36

stuff that you can maybe utilize at

57:38

home. And then we also do a

57:40

lot of reviews of products of products.

57:42

So, you know, mattresses are expensive. And

57:45

so I dig in and I figure

57:47

out like, what's a good one? What's

57:49

a crappy one? Which one? You know,

57:51

which one's overpriced? Which one's not? We

57:54

have almost, I think almost 150 reviews.

57:56

And pillows, too. website. So those can

57:58

be helpful. The goal here is to

58:00

just kind of get everybody through all

58:02

the nonsense and be able to find

58:05

what they need so they can sleep

58:07

and then, you know, leave their lives

58:09

and enjoy themselves. Very helpful. Again, Michael,

58:11

great to have you, always glad to

58:14

have you back. I'm glad you keep

58:16

castering me to come back. That's not

58:18

what happens, but I feel like, oh,

58:20

another newsletter. We could talk all about

58:22

this one. for having me back on

58:25

the pod. You know, it's not, I

58:27

know a lot of people don't necessarily

58:29

have guests repeat. I might be one

58:31

of your only guests that repeats. In

58:34

some cases, or at least one of

58:36

a few select, so I just want

58:38

to say thanks, appreciate it. Yeah, I

58:40

love having people back when they know

58:42

what they're talking about and they're fun

58:45

to talk to you, like you. So,

58:47

thank you again here, and we'll see

58:49

you again sometime soon. You bet. Peace.

58:51

Well, that's another podcast crossed off your

58:53

listening to do list. I hope that

58:56

you enjoyed Dr Michael Bruce again as

58:58

much as I do I always love

59:00

having him back. I think this is

59:02

the third time something like that I

59:05

always learn more from him and these

59:07

are things that I am all in

59:09

on for this year I am trying

59:11

to get better sleep hydration is something

59:13

that after having talked with him I

59:16

have figured out how to do a

59:18

lot better and honestly we all need

59:20

to be doing better breathing especially the

59:22

four 478 breathing technique he talked about

59:25

I am finding that really helpful for

59:27

calming down because there's a lot that

59:29

makes me upset sometimes Probably you as

59:31

well as well as how that ties

59:33

into sleep and around and round it

59:36

goes So if you found this podcast

59:38

episode helpful I'd love for you to

59:40

share it with somebody that you know

59:42

needs to hear it hit that share

59:45

button wherever you're listening to this your

59:47

podcast player app of choice share it

59:49

on over to them Let them you

59:51

were thinking of them and that it

59:53

benefited you. Thank you so much for

59:56

sharing. Thanks again for listening and I

59:58

will see you now. next episode.