0:00

Your data your data is like gold to

0:02

hackers. They'll sell it to

0:04

the highest bidder. Are you

0:06

protected? McAfee helps shield you,

0:09

blocking suspicious texts, malicious emails,

0:11

and fraudulent websites. McAfee's secure

0:13

VPN lets you browse safely

0:15

and its AI-powered tech scam

0:17

detector spots threats instantly. You'll

0:19

also get up to $2

0:21

million of award-winning antivirus and

0:23

identity theft protection, all for

0:25

just $39.99 for your first

0:27

year. Visit McAfee. Cancel any

0:29

time. Terms apply. Hello

0:47

and welcome back to Beyond the

0:49

To-Do list a podcast about productivity.

0:51

I'm your host Eric Fisher and

0:53

I have a treat this episode.

0:55

Somebody that I've wanted to have

0:57

on the show for a long

0:59

time ever since I saw them

1:02

speak not only in a large

1:04

setting but especially in a small

1:06

setting. It's Duncan Wardle. He's the

1:08

former head of innovation and creativity

1:10

at Disney, a global speaker, and

1:12

an expert in unlocking the human

1:15

imagination. the creative tools to change

1:17

the way you think. And if you've

1:19

never heard Duncan speak, you're in for

1:21

a treat. Although if you have heard

1:23

him speak, you are more aware of

1:26

how amazing Duncan is when he speaks.

1:28

And as you guessed it, we're talking

1:30

about creativity and imagination in this episode,

1:32

why adults don't believe they're creative and

1:34

how to reclaim that curiosity and imagination

1:37

we had when we were a kid,

1:39

how to identify and escape rivers of

1:41

thinking that limit our problem solving abilities

1:43

and how to come up with fresh

1:45

ideas. Pepperdine lessons from his time

1:48

at Disney. This is an

1:50

energy packed episode. So enjoy

1:52

this conversation with Duncan Wardle.

1:55

Well, I am excited to

1:57

bring to the show Duncan

1:59

Wardle. and welcome to Beyond

2:01

the To-Doo list. Thanks for having

2:03

me. So I just told you

2:05

pre-recording that I've seen you a

2:07

couple times, but the one time

2:09

I really spent the most time

2:11

was at our mutual friend Lou

2:14

Mungelo's momentum event that he does

2:16

every fall down in Florida. And

2:18

you got to have free reign of the

2:20

room. It was a room of about 50

2:22

people, and I was one of those people,

2:24

and you were just taking us through this.

2:26

It was almost, dare I say it, I

2:29

say it's a... Robin Williams asked type of

2:31

time where it was like we'd spend

2:33

time on one thing and then go

2:35

to another and go to another and

2:37

it was like this is amazing but

2:40

each time we paused and stopped and

2:42

did a kind of a brain bending

2:44

activity it really illustrated I think

2:46

what we're gonna talk about today

2:49

which is imagination and creativity and

2:51

I couldn't help but walk away

2:53

from that time thinking of this

2:56

Pablo Picasso quote where he says

2:58

Every child is an

3:00

artist and the problem is

3:02

how to remain an artist

3:05

once they grow up. Yeah,

3:07

that's the truth. So wait,

3:09

no, you've got it, it's

3:11

time, we're all going. We're

3:13

out of pen and a piece

3:15

of paper. You got some pen

3:18

and paper? Okay, let's do

3:20

this. Let's do this. There we

3:22

go. All right, so, put your

3:24

pad of paper on your knee.

3:26

Okay. So, two questions. Do you

3:29

believe you're a creative person? Yes

3:31

or no? Yes. Okay. Do you believe you

3:33

could draw, like the Spanish painter,

3:35

Piper Picasso? Yes or no? Knowing his

3:37

work, yes. Okay, so, here's what we're

3:39

going to do. You're going to look

3:41

lovingly into my eyes, straight at my

3:44

eyes. Okay, okay. Better than webcam. So,

3:46

without once, losing eye contact. You're not

3:48

going to lose eye contact once. You're

3:50

not going to look down. You're not

3:52

going to look down, go. You're not

3:55

going. You're not going. You're not going.

3:58

But you look down My

4:00

pen was on the eraser. Okay, now

4:02

it's fixed. High lashes, like browns, nose,

4:04

ears, eyes. Oh mouth, got my chin,

4:06

beard. Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five,

4:08

four, three, two, share your genius. All

4:10

right. There. Bekassa, Bekassa. See, we don't

4:13

think we could. People, you know, it's

4:15

amazing. When I walk into a room

4:17

and ask people, hands up if you

4:19

think you think you're creative, you're creative.

4:21

how few people will put their hands

4:23

up. And then you can you draw

4:25

a Picasso? No. And then you can

4:27

give them an exercise and they draw

4:30

a Picasso. We just, the problem is

4:32

school. You know, I gave a talk

4:34

at a university recently, 3,000 university students.

4:36

And so I brought in a first

4:38

grade class of 30 little six-year-olds and

4:40

I said, hands up, who's creative? Me,

4:42

me, me, me! 30 little hands didn't

4:44

hesitate. The other 3,000, 3,000,000 stayed down.

4:46

The other 3, the other 3, 3,

4:49

3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3,000,000, 3,000,

4:51

3,000,000, 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 3,000,000, 3,000,000,000,000,000, 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 But if

4:53

you ask the people programming AI what

4:55

they believe will be the most employable

4:57

skill sets in the next five to

4:59

ten years, they'll tell you the ones

5:01

that will be the hardest to program

5:03

into AI, and then you ask them

5:06

what they are, the ones with which

5:08

we were born. Imagination, used to play

5:10

with the box, not the toy. Curiosity

5:12

used to ask why, why, why, and

5:14

why again. Intuition, empathy, imagination. These are

5:16

all things with which we were born

5:18

but the time we're 18 we've been

5:20

told we're not creative so many times.

5:23

Our first grade teacher tells us don't

5:25

forget to colour in between the lines.

5:27

Then she tells us or he tells

5:29

us to stop our scene, why because

5:31

we're only one right answer. Curiosity. dead

5:33

by the time we enter the workforce.

5:35

Yeah. And going through those different exercises,

5:37

it was just clear to us. I

5:40

remember in that room and even just

5:42

what we did now was this kind

5:44

of rediscovering or reawakening. It was kind

5:46

of digging deep into the like an

5:48

old trunk we pulled out of a

5:50

closet and finding it there at the

5:52

bottom back corner. Yeah, listen, when I

5:54

ask people who are the most creative

5:57

people they've ever met, people always say

5:59

kids. and then you say yeah and

6:01

how much money they go oh that's

6:03

right they don't mmm so but kids

6:05

are better you know what do they

6:07

do better than us they play right

6:09

and when you ask people where are

6:11

you usually what are you doing when

6:14

you get your best ideas people say

6:16

shower bathroom walking jogging running at the

6:18

gym falling asleep waking up on the

6:20

beach nobody I've done it with 20,000

6:22

people in the room and not one

6:24

person wrote down at work at work

6:26

ooh that's a bummer isn't a bummer

6:28

And so when you think about the last argument

6:31

you were in, you sort of walk away from

6:33

the argument, 10 seconds later, bang the killer online,

6:35

oh I wish I'd used that to you. But

6:37

you never did. Because being in an argument is

6:39

like being at the office, your brain is moving

6:42

at a thousand miles an hour defending yourself or

6:44

doing emails and presentations and we hear ourselves say,

6:46

I don't have time to think. And when we don't

6:48

have time to think that door between our

6:50

conscious and subconscious brain is firmly closed and

6:52

we only have access to our conscious brain,

6:54

people listening in can Google, what presenting my

6:56

brain is conscious, 13%, 87% of your brain

6:58

is subconscious. Every meeting you've ever attended, every

7:01

creative problem you've ever solved, every innovation you've

7:03

ever seen is back here waiting to help

7:05

yourself, the challenge that you're on. But when

7:07

the door is shut, you don't have access

7:09

to it. So what do I do? I run energizers.

7:11

Well, what's an energizer? We did one. I just made you draw a bikasa.

7:13

It's a 60-second exercise specifically designed to make you laugh, because the moment I

7:15

laugh, I know that I've subconsciously opened that door, metaphorically opened the door, between

7:17

your conscious and subconscious brain, and metaphorically placed you back in the shower, where

7:19

you are, when you have your best ideas. I don't expect people to be

7:22

playful every minute of every day. Life will be great fun. We can get

7:24

great fun, but we can get great fun, but we can get my work,

7:26

but we can get my work done. We can get my work done. We

7:28

can get my work done. We can get my work done. We can get

7:30

my work done. We can get my work done. I do. We can get

7:32

my work done. I do expect people. I do expect people. I do expect

7:34

people. I do expect people. I do expect people. I do expect people. I

7:37

do. I do. I do expect So obviously this

7:39

idea of or this this approach

7:41

of this reawakening this rediscovering this

7:43

this drawing back out of ourselves

7:45

or You know pulling that out

7:47

and using it Obviously you're saying

7:49

it doesn't happen at work Traditionally

7:51

or normality at this point, but

7:53

we want it to and need

7:55

it to especially in our day

7:57

jobs in our commercial life, but

8:00

Also in the rest of our life

8:02

too, but obviously that's that setting, busting

8:04

that setting out, like doing retreats, probably

8:06

not just, that's not enough, it's not

8:08

just enough to do that, but it's

8:11

putting it into a ritualistic without being

8:13

constrictive, repetitive in other words, making it

8:15

normal, making it part of everyday life.

8:17

Yeah, when I was asked, you know,

8:20

I was asked, that's the wrong word,

8:22

when I was told. I was, you're

8:24

going to be in charge of innovation

8:26

and creativity at Pixar, Marvel, look at

8:28

it from Disney, I was like, oh

8:31

what the hell is that? And Bob

8:33

said, well I don't know exactly, we

8:35

just want to embed a cultural innovation

8:37

and creativity into everybody's DNA. So I

8:39

failed three times, the first time I

8:42

thought, right, I don't know what I'm

8:44

doing, I'm going to possibly go wrong.

8:46

Nobody outside of legal does legal work,

8:48

nobody outside of marketing does marketing, nobody

8:51

outside of sales does. So when you

8:53

have an innovation team you subliminally just

8:55

told everybody else in the organisation you're

8:57

off the hook, we've got an innovation

8:59

team. Model number three was an accelerated

9:02

program where we bring in some young

9:04

tech startups and take a 50-50 stake

9:06

in their business. We could help them

9:08

scale it and they could help us

9:11

take it to market much quicker because

9:13

they weren't encumbered by our politics, but

9:15

we had failed in our overall goal.

9:17

So I thought, right, I'm going to

9:19

make a toolkit. That's going to have

9:22

three principles. It's going to take intimidation

9:24

out of innovation and make it accessible

9:26

to normal hardworking people. Make creativity tangible

9:28

for 50% of us who are uncomfortable

9:31

with ambiguity. Far more importantly, make it

9:33

fun. Give people tools they choose to

9:35

use, but we're not around. That's when

9:37

you know when you're changing in culture.

9:39

So, what, five, six years on, I

9:42

thought, right, every single time I get

9:44

off a stage, have you got a

9:46

book? No. Do you have a book?

9:48

No, do you have a book? Pass

9:50

off. No, I died of a book.

9:53

So I thought, right, I better do

9:55

a book. So I said to them

9:57

of the publisher, I said, it's... Not

9:59

a book. He goes, well, what do

10:02

you mean he's not a book? I

10:04

said, okay. Well, actually, I'll ask you,

10:06

when you see a book in a

10:09

business environment, it's a business book, it's

10:11

in your office somewhere. Where is

10:13

the book traditionally? Where is it?

10:15

Sitting on a shelf. Yeah, you

10:17

know, and along with thousands of

10:19

others that we've never read, why?

10:21

Because my boss needs something by

10:23

three o'clock, I've got a time

10:26

to read. So I don't have

10:28

to do now. My mom's cookbook. You

10:30

on Shepherds Pie, go to pay 67.

10:32

Sherry Tival, pay three. So the book

10:34

is designed the same way. So it

10:36

says, the contents page, it says, have

10:38

you ever been to your brainstorm when

10:41

nothing ever happened as a result? Go

10:43

to pay 67. Work in a heavily

10:45

regulated industry. Go to pay 13. Don't

10:47

know how to evaluate your idea. Go

10:49

to pay 47. I'm trying to make

10:52

it accessible to people. And then the

10:54

other thing I wanted to do was appeal

10:56

to how we learn to how we learn. Keep

10:58

your eyes closed. How did you know?

11:00

How did you remember? How did you

11:02

learn? What eyes closed? Oh, what

11:04

can you see with your eyes closed? How

11:07

did you know there were 30 days

11:09

in September? I kind of have

11:11

a semi photographic memory, so I'm

11:13

looking at it in my

11:15

photographic memory So I'm looking at

11:18

it in my head and I'm

11:20

just kind of in my photographic

11:22

memory. So I'm looking at it

11:24

in my head and I'm just

11:26

told me they learned it Not that

11:28

30% puts their knuckles together and starts going

11:30

January, February, March, April, May, June, July. They're

11:32

kinesthetic learners. They learned by doing. You learn

11:34

by seeing. So when I created the book,

11:36

I thought, right, how do I appeal to

11:38

all three learning stars? I thought, right, I

11:40

love doing stuff I've never done before. There's

11:43

a QR code in each chapter. Spotify

11:45

playlist in each chapter for people who learn by

11:47

listen. Animated videos. I'm now an animated character. I've

11:49

never been a character. Well, I went shot on

11:52

a green screen in Los Angeles. I now pop

11:54

out of the pages with the characters from the

11:56

book and show you how to use the tools.

11:58

And in the back you... code is the

12:00

visual and it's the back cover is

12:03

AI first ever fully integrated. It's artificial

12:05

intelligence book ever published. Why? Because I

12:07

didn't know how to do it this.

12:10

And so you can ask the book

12:12

questions. You go through the back you

12:14

are code sign up on what's app

12:16

and you can ask the book questions

12:19

through a chat TVT because how could

12:21

I use the what if tool on

12:23

pay 67 to help me sell more

12:26

orange sharpies on Tuesday morning at 10

12:28

o'clock? And the book will answer you

12:30

and it's bloody good. But no, because

12:32

it's about making it fun and engaging

12:35

for people. I mean, look, I come

12:37

from Disney. It's about, is it a

12:39

book or is it an experience? I

12:41

would argue it's an experience. Yeah. I

12:44

think the one downside for me was

12:46

I received a PDF copy, so it

12:48

was flat on a screen. So I

12:51

will be. But for me, again, I

12:53

always love the tangible book. I love

12:55

being able to open it and flip

12:57

it up. Send me your address. Spark

13:00

Zing Nova. So, because when I originally

13:02

created the book, I created this character,

13:04

I mean, come on, I come from

13:07

Disney, go out of a character somewhere.

13:09

So I thought, right, we're going to

13:11

have Archie. Archie is, he's a direct

13:13

descendant of our comedians. Well, why are

13:16

comedians? Well, because when you ask people

13:18

where they are, when they're best ideas,

13:20

they say they shower. Well, our comedians

13:23

was in the bath. So I'm sketching

13:25

it and drawing it, I'm getting into

13:27

graphicic graphici. You're an old white guy,

13:29

you can't do that anymore. So I've

13:32

created three new characters. Spark is masculine,

13:34

he's a light bulb, he introduces you

13:36

to the creative behaviors. Zing, gender neutral,

13:38

introduces you to the energizers and knows

13:41

where she's female and she introduces you

13:43

to each of the tools. And so

13:45

this isn't a book about case studies.

13:48

This is a recipe book. Here's the

13:50

challenge you've got. This is the tool

13:52

to use and this is how to

13:54

use it. What do you think of

13:57

when you think of a business growing

13:59

beyond their sales forecasts? Like all birds,

14:01

death wish coffee, or moments? You're thinking

14:04

about an amazing product, lots of demand

14:06

for that product, a focused brand, great

14:08

marketing, but one of the things that's

14:10

often overlooked is the business behind the

14:13

business that makes selling and for shoppers

14:15

buying simple. For millions of businesses, that

14:17

business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better

14:19

than shopify. Home of the number one

14:22

checkout on the planet and the not

14:24

so secret secret with shop pay that

14:26

boosts conversions up to 50% meaning way

14:29

less carts going abandoned and way

14:31

more sales going. So if you're into

14:33

growing your business your commerce platform

14:35

better be ready to sell wherever

14:38

your customers are scrolling or strolling.

14:40

on the web in your store

14:42

in their feed and everywhere in

14:45

between businesses that sell sell on

14:47

shopify upgrade your business and get

14:50

the same check out that Deathwish

14:52

Coffee and all birds are using

14:54

sign up for a $1 per

14:57

month trial period at shopify.com/beyond all

14:59

lower case go to shopify.com/beyond to

15:02

upgrade your selling today

15:04

shopify.com/ beyond Imagine

15:07

Imagine what's possible when learning doesn't

15:09

get in the way of life. At

15:12

Capella University, our game-changing flexpath learning format

15:14

lets you set your own deadline so

15:16

you can learn at a time and

15:18

pace that works for you. It's an

15:21

education you can tailor to your schedule.

15:23

That means you don't have to put

15:25

your life on hold to pursue your

15:27

professional goals. Instead, enjoy learning your way,

15:30

an earning degree without missing a beat.

15:32

A different future is closer than you

15:34

think, with Capella University. Learn more at

15:36

Capella. ED first

15:56

culture will follow. I was like, you,

15:58

users, it's culture first and profit. will

16:00

follow. If you don't get the culture right you

16:02

can have all the tools you want it doesn't

16:04

matter. But getting the culture right is so important.

16:06

You and I both know that when we go

16:08

to work or every time we pitch an idea

16:10

it's no because we tried that last year it's

16:12

no because we tried that last year. No because

16:15

that one here our KPIs. No because that's not

16:17

the way we do it here. So so actually

16:19

I want to demonstrate this for your listeners so

16:21

you and I are charged with coming up with

16:23

the birthday party. Marvel, so I'm going to come

16:25

out with you with some ideas for a Marvel

16:27

party. I'd like you to start eating their response

16:29

with the words you know you hear every day,

16:32

no because, and then you'll tell me why not.

16:34

Okay, but each time you're responding no because. So

16:36

I was thinking about, oh guardians, the galaxy party.

16:38

Yeah, we could go with, yes, with, I'm grud

16:40

and rocket and the big guy and star lord,

16:42

it could be a costume party, we could be

16:44

a costume party, we could be a costume party,

16:46

we could be a costume party, we could be

16:49

a costume party, or a costume party, we could

16:51

be a costume party, or a costume party, we

16:53

could be a costume party, we could be a

16:55

costume party, or a costume party, or a costume

16:57

party, or a costume party, or a costume party,

16:59

or a costume party, or a costume party, or

17:01

a costume party, or a costume, or a costume,

17:03

All right, oh man, okay. Well tell you what,

17:05

then, what if we just brought the costumes from

17:08

the sets? So just the set costumes, so we'll

17:10

actually have, you know, like, one of those displays

17:12

of all the costumes in like, sort of a

17:14

museum setting, we'd have some cocktails. No, because transporting

17:16

them, they've got to be guarded. All right, okay.

17:18

Right, what if we, I tell you what, we'd

17:20

do a Guardians of Galaxy party. And then everybody

17:22

could come dressed as a galaxy, a galaxy party.

17:25

No, because everybody's going to feel like they've got

17:27

to have a competition going to win. Right. I

17:29

tell you what then, what if you just show

17:31

all three movies in a movie theater and we

17:33

give people some free popcorn tote fella? No, because

17:35

we don't know how many you're going to show

17:37

up and we can't estimate the cost correctly. Okay,

17:39

so I'm having fun with that. Yeah, were you

17:41

in legal for a while? I'm just kidding to

17:44

all my legal friends. Legal people are much more

17:46

creative than anybody gets in credit for. The problem

17:48

is we leave them to the last possible.

17:50

minute to see if they

17:52

can help us solve

17:54

something. So let me ask

17:56

you a question. Do

17:58

you think that was getting

18:01

bigger or smaller as

18:03

we were going along? It's

18:05

constricting. It's getting smaller

18:07

every time. Also, if I

18:09

was honest, I'd say it was like business as

18:11

usual. So let's do it again. I'm going to

18:13

give your listeners a different tool, one that I

18:15

believe can change your culture overnight. So this time

18:17

it's doing Potter or Star Wars. What are we

18:19

doing? I'll see Star Wars. Okay. So

18:21

I'm going to come at you some Star Wars

18:23

ideas. I like the first exercise where you started

18:25

with the words no because each time this time

18:28

I want you to start with the words yes

18:30

and and we'll just build it together. Okay. So

18:32

right. Oh, I tell you what, we could get

18:34

one of those dark black carpets and then we

18:36

could do holographic projections onto it in a galaxy

18:38

far, far away. And then it would actually name

18:40

all of us individually as we're going up the

18:42

carpet. Yes. And once in a while,

18:44

we can have the lights flash like we're going

18:46

into hyperspace. Yes. And

18:48

we can throw in the dark

18:50

lightsabers. Yes.

18:53

And we can have

18:55

blasters that shoot

18:57

lights. Oh, I

18:59

tell you what, yes. And we could do an intergalactic

19:01

food and wine festival. We could have, we could have food

19:03

and wine from the heart and the boo and Tatooine. Yes.

19:06

And we can definitely have

19:08

people dress up because we want

19:10

to have everybody bring their

19:13

favorite Star Wars character. Oh,

19:15

yes. And all the tall people come as Vader and

19:17

all the little people who dress as Evox. Yes.

19:20

And even all of them in between.

19:22

And we can see who can do

19:24

the best wookie impression. Yes. Oh,

19:26

notice that we can put them all on a big corporate

19:28

jet and fly them down to Disney World to see the

19:30

new galaxy's edge. I

19:32

don't know what I was to say, but yeah.

19:34

A lot more laughter, a lot more energy, but you

19:36

became Italian for the first time today. You're right.

19:39

Absolutely. So this time around was the idea getting bigger

19:41

or smaller. It was getting bigger. We,

19:43

we expand. We're adding into it. Right. And

19:45

we, you know, we have colleagues and clients

19:47

and constituents and government and people that we need

19:49

to bring on board with our ideas. When

19:51

we just finished building that idea together, whose idea

19:53

was it by the time we finished? Everybody's

19:56

hours. Very simple words

19:58

from the world of improv. that can take

20:00

a small idea into a big one

20:02

really really quickly. But far more important

20:04

is the power of transforming my idea

20:07

to our idea and accelerate its opportunity

20:09

to get done. Just remind yourselves, you

20:11

know, when people come at you with

20:13

an idea you're not thinking of, that's

20:15

a really good place to start. Innovation

20:17

is about getting you to an idea you

20:19

can't get to by yourself. But just remind

20:21

yourselves if you tend to be one of

20:24

those people who will kill the ideas. Just

20:26

remind yourself, we're not green lighting this idea

20:28

for execution. I love the word greenhouse. The

20:30

other thing I noticed was that instead of

20:33

constricting it as we went, we were expanding

20:35

and then when we get to that semi

20:37

and, well you even said bring the

20:40

lawyers in early, but even if we

20:42

get to that point where logistically some

20:44

of what we suggested isn't going to

20:47

work, we find that out later and

20:49

we haven't limited ourselves or walled ourselves

20:51

off from entertaining those possibilities. I'm very

20:53

clear this is an expensive session or is a

20:55

reductive session and if you're an expensive session you

20:58

don't get to use the words nobody calls. One

21:00

of the things I would offer some advice is

21:02

we all have boring meeting rooms where we work,

21:04

but all of us have an art school within

21:06

five miles where we work. Well what if we

21:09

got the art students to come in and paint

21:11

a greenhouse around the walls? Call it the greenhouse

21:13

and everybody knows when they walk into the greenhouse.

21:15

This is the one room where you don't get

21:17

to kill ideas. You don't get to kill ideas.

21:19

You don't get to kill ideas. Yeah, yes, because

21:22

good ideas come from many ideas. Yeah,

21:24

Ed Katner once said, creativity doesn't

21:26

get good ideas and creativity, don't

21:28

follow job titles, they just come

21:30

from where they come from. Oh, that's

21:32

great. That was a great example of an

21:34

activator. Let's go back to one of those

21:37

other characters. What were the other two? I

21:39

forget their names off the top of my

21:41

head. Zing does energizes. Energizers are, so when you,

21:43

you know... We never get our best idea at

21:45

work, right? It's always in the shower,

21:47

it's always somewhere else, it's never at

21:49

work, so energizes specifically designed to open

21:52

the door between your conscious and subconscious

21:54

brain and metaphorically pledge you back in

21:56

the shower. What are they? 60-second exercises

21:58

specifically designed to make you laugh. actually

22:00

takes you through them all that we

22:02

did the earlier one where we became

22:04

bicasso. So there are some stitches. Again,

22:06

they are specifically designed with laughter in

22:09

mind to get you out of busy

22:11

beta. That's the brain state that science

22:13

calls beta and into alpha where you

22:15

open the door between your conscious and

22:17

subconscious brain. Okay. You got any other

22:19

ones? Let's do another one real quick.

22:21

Would you not have any energizing? Yeah,

22:23

actually now. So this is half energised,

22:25

but half to make a point. This

22:28

is actually, this is an innovation tool.

22:30

This is, well, I'm brought to you

22:32

by Nova. This one is, who else?

22:34

Who else is uniquely positioned? to get

22:36

you out of your own. So I

22:38

said, we say the biggest barrier to

22:40

innovation is I don't have time to

22:42

think. I would argue it is in

22:44

fact all of us on our own

22:47

river of thinking. Well what's a river

22:49

of thinking? A river of thinking is

22:51

our own expertise and our own experience

22:53

and the more our expertise and experience

22:55

we have, the wider, the faster, the

22:57

deeper is our river of thinking in

22:59

the industry in which we work. And

23:01

that works really well up until 2020.

23:03

Then we had a global pandemic, global

23:05

climate change, global climate change, generations, generations,

23:08

the coming, the world, the work, the

23:10

work, the work, the work, the work,

23:12

the work, the way, the way, the

23:14

way, the way, the way, and AI.

23:16

or for our career. So the tools

23:18

are designed specifically designed to get you

23:20

out of your ever thinking and thinking

23:22

differently. So this one is about who

23:24

else is uniquely positioned to get you

23:27

out of your ever thinking. This is

23:29

the naive expert. Well who or what

23:31

are they? Well they are chosen because

23:33

they don't work in your line of

23:35

business or perhaps your industry. Well why

23:37

are they there then? Well they're not

23:39

there to solve the challenge that would

23:41

be an unrealistic objective. They're there to

23:43

say or do something to stop you

23:46

thinking the way you always do. We

23:48

were designing a new retail dining and

23:50

entertainment complex for the Hong Kong Disney

23:52

Resort. In the room that day, the

23:54

12th white male American architects, Disney imaginary.

23:56

So I invited in a young female

23:58

Chinese chef. Why? She was female, not

24:00

male, not male, male, Chinese chef. Why?

24:02

She was female, not male, Chinese chef.

24:05

Why? She was female, not male, Chinese

24:07

chef. Why? She was female, not male.

24:09

seven seconds ready ready ready okay please

24:11

would you draw a house seven six

24:13

five four three two one share your

24:15

genius let's take a look let's take

24:17

a look and oh look at twins

24:19

that looks very close yes so We

24:21

both drew one door, we both drew

24:24

two windows and we both threw the

24:26

room for the shape of a triangle.

24:28

Why? Because all of our expertise and

24:30

all of our experience tells us that's

24:32

what the house should look like. The

24:34

young Chinese chef, she was there, so

24:36

everybody drew exactly what you and I

24:38

did except the young female Chinese chef.

24:40

She drew a dim sum architecture. Why

24:43

wouldn't she? She's a young female Chinese

24:45

chef. Never occurred to her to draw

24:47

the house the same way we would.

24:49

On the way out the door, Disney

24:51

Imaginee had put a post over a

24:53

drawing and said, Distinctly Disney Authentically Chinese.

24:55

Seven years later, the strategic brand position

24:57

that guided the entire design of the

24:59

Shanghai Disney Resort, Distantly Disney Authentically Chinese.

25:01

Now I can bounce back to one

25:04

of the behaviors, so we'll do bravery

25:06

here. So, bravery. We want to hear

25:08

a story about how I sent Buzzlike,

25:10

you're into space or how I stole

25:12

the turkey from the President United States

25:14

of America on Thanksgiving. What would you

25:16

prefer? The turkey, I've heard the buzz

25:18

lightier story, so the turkey one is

25:20

peeping in interest for sure. Okay. This

25:23

is all about bravery and that wonderful

25:25

quote by Henry Ford, whether or not

25:27

you think you can or think you

25:29

can't, you're probably right. So we were

25:31

tasked with getting some coverage for Disneyland's

25:33

50th anniversary. The actual anniversary was over.

25:35

It was in July. So the media

25:37

were like, please, we don't want to

25:39

talk about it anymore. So we were

25:42

like, well, okay, what are those other

25:44

events in the American calendar that the

25:46

media will have to cover? Well, they're

25:48

going to have to come with Mother's

25:50

Day, Father's Day, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Well,

25:52

tell me, well, tell me about Thanksgiving,

25:54

Christmas. So I said, well, tell me

25:56

about Thanksgiving, Christmas. Well, tell me about

25:58

Thanksgiving. before Thanksgiving. I was like, oh

26:01

well, he said he goes back to Eisenhower. I

26:03

said, well, okay. I said, well, so that's the one

26:05

turkey pardons. So they don't get killed, right? He said, yeah.

26:07

I said, well, wouldn't that make it the happiest turkey

26:09

on earth? And everybody was like, oh, don't even go

26:11

there? Oh, don't even go there? Oh, don't even go

26:13

there. Don't even go there? Oh, don't even go, oh,

26:15

don't even, the happiest turkey on earth. Don't even. Don't

26:17

even. Don't even, don't even. Don't even, don't even, don't

26:19

even, don't even, don't even, don't even, don't even,

26:22

don't even, don't even, don't even, don't even,

26:24

don't even, don't even, don't even, don't even,

26:26

don't, don't even, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't,

26:28

don't, And the director comes at the White House and

26:30

says, oh, we send it to the National Turkey Federation.

26:32

I said, I didn't know he ever. I said, well, you

26:34

couldn't give me their phone number, could you? So he

26:36

did. So I found the president of the National Turkey

26:38

Federation. I said, what do you do with the turkeys

26:41

after the party in ceremony? He says, oh, we put

26:43

them on a petting zoo in Virginia. It's like,

26:45

oh, aren't we supposed to negotiate or handle

26:47

a little bit? Anyway. Anyway. So then I

26:49

found out more about turkeys than you could

26:51

possibly want to learn. Turkeys when growing to

26:54

a certain size, such as the pardoning turkeys

26:56

for the ceremony, have heart attacks and die

26:58

like that. I thought, wow, you want coverage?

27:00

I'll get your coverage. The one turkey pardoned

27:02

by the President of the United States of

27:05

America is killed by a British Pialgo in

27:07

a stump for Disney. So in a moment

27:09

of total and utter stupidity, in one of

27:11

those seemed like a good decision at the

27:13

time, I sent Pilgrim Mickey the walk-around

27:16

character and the parade music up

27:18

to the pen in Virginia for

27:20

two weeks. Oh yes, I did.

27:22

Turkey will get a climatise. And

27:24

then I thought, oh, I wonder if the National

27:26

Turkey Federation have told the White House we're taking the

27:28

Turkey, I thought, well, phone up. So I found out

27:30

then the National, and I said, yeah, I've told the

27:33

White House Disney's taking the Turkey, right? He said, no.

27:35

I said, well, you're going to have to, because we're

27:37

going to do the MVP spot, Turkey. Well, you're going

27:39

to have to, you know, we're going to do the

27:41

MVP spot, Turkey, but, because we're, because we're, you know,

27:43

because we're, because we're, you know, because we're, you know, because

27:45

we're, you know, because we're, you know, because we're,

27:47

you know, you know, because we're, because, you know,

27:49

you know, you know, because, you know, because, you

27:51

know, you know, you're, because, you're, you're, we're, we're,

27:53

we're, we're, we're, we're So they won't get a

27:55

call from our chairman. He says, Duncan, I see

27:57

you've booked the corporate chair out of Washington DC

27:59

to LA. on My

32:29

dad works in B2B marketing. He

32:31

came by my school for career

32:34

day and said he was a

32:36

big row as man. Then he

32:38

told everyone how much he loved

32:40

calculating his return on ad spend.

32:43

My friends still laughing me

32:45

to this day. Not everyone

32:47

gets B2B, but with LinkedIn,

32:49

you'll be able to reach

32:52

people who do. Get $100

32:54

credit on your next ad

32:57

campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results. Well

46:32

that's another podcast crossed off your listening

46:34

to-do list. I hope that you got

46:36

many many things out of this conversation

46:38

and I hope that you go grab

46:40

the book because it is definitely worth

46:42

grabbing. Like I said in the conversation

46:44

I saw Duncan in person for about

46:46

two hours plus in about a 50-60

46:48

person room and we went through so

46:51

many of these activators and things that

46:53

got us out of our rivers of

46:55

thinking and then we would brainstorm on

46:57

our own stuff. And it was just

46:59

a fantastic time. So I knew. When

47:01

the option for him to be on

47:03

the show came up, I had to

47:05

do it. And I hope that you

47:07

are walking away energized and contemplating the

47:09

possibilities that are in front of you

47:11

if you start to put into place

47:13

and do some of the things that

47:16

he talked about in this episode and

47:18

in his book. So check the show

47:20

notes beyond the to-do list.com is where

47:22

you can find those. You find the

47:24

link to the book there as well

47:26

as how to get in touch with

47:28

all the other things Duncan is doing

47:30

if you found this podcast helpful. Please

47:32

do me the favor of sending this

47:34

to somebody you know needs to hear

47:36

it, share it on social, tag me,

47:39

tag Duncan. Thank you so much for

47:41

sharing. Thanks again for listening and I'll

47:43

see you next episode.