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1:03

on fast. Hey, are they

1:05

listening or watching? Remember always

1:08

keeping squatty, yeah. And now

1:10

your hosts, Cliff Berckman and

1:13

James Bobofay. Hey, Bob's, what's

1:15

happening, man? Oh, not much. Just

1:17

sitting in the dark room

1:20

with dark sunglasses on. Why? Because

1:22

all my headsets are not

1:24

working. And the only thing I

1:27

could find was this old pair

1:29

of bows sunglasses that... have little

1:31

speakers next to come out, the

1:33

next to you, like external speakers

1:36

that come out right next to your ears.

1:38

And the speakers work, give it

1:40

the sunglasses or is, they're too small

1:42

and too dark. So I never really wear

1:45

them. Any chance you can take a selfie

1:47

of that and send it to us? Yeah.

1:49

I'd love to see that. We post on

1:51

the member section or something. Then again,

1:53

you also said you're in a dark

1:55

room. So it's not dark. I mean, it's

1:58

still daylight out. It's just really. stormy

2:00

out really dark gray. Yeah I did

2:02

want a picture that was just a

2:04

you know darkness so I'd love to

2:06

see that though that sounds like a

2:08

lot of fun. That would have been

2:11

a good gag you could have just

2:13

sent like a jet black square and

2:15

said like yeah that's it that's what

2:17

you asked for. Yeah I don't know

2:19

about you but I look better in

2:21

the dark. Oh yeah. Well I received

2:23

some good news from one of our

2:26

beloved listeners yesterday. What's that? If you

2:28

guys recall, we did a topical episode

2:30

a while back and the playing with

2:32

the boys video came up again and

2:34

I'd said, you know what, somebody needs

2:36

to go and edit that Wikipedia entry

2:38

to reflect that Bobo was in that

2:41

video. And so one of our good

2:43

members, Neil, who we've chatted with before,

2:45

he sent me an email yesterday to

2:47

the podcast and said, just figured I'd

2:49

pay the positively forward. So I went

2:51

to the link. And in the music

2:53

video section of the Wikipedia entry for

2:56

Play With the Boys, it says actors.

2:58

James Bobo Fay, best known for the

3:00

Animal Planet television series Finding Bigfoot, and

3:02

the podcast Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff

3:04

and Bobo, co-presented by Cliff Barrickman and

3:06

produced by Matt Pruitt, stars in this

3:08

music video. Nice. So thanks to Bobo

3:11

and thanks to Neil. Now Cliff and

3:13

I are forever instantiated in a bit

3:15

of the log-in's legacy. Andy Logins is

3:17

a big tent. There's plenty of room

3:19

for everyone here. That's funny. If Neil's

3:21

listening, as I say, if Neil's listening,

3:23

give you a little, so my name

3:26

turns blue on there. You know, as

3:28

you can click a little thing and

3:30

it says, the bows. Yeah, under our

3:32

names, like he linked to the Finding

3:34

Bigfoot wiki entry and then to the

3:36

podcast website, to Cliff's website, and to

3:38

my website. So you got to get

3:41

a website up. So he can click

3:43

to somewhere. Oh, is that how it

3:45

works? Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah, generally, if

3:47

a link's got to go somewhere, right?

3:49

So thank you so much, Neil, for

3:51

doing that. That gave me a big

3:53

chuckle. Greatly appreciate that. Say hello to

3:56

your mom for us too. she's also

3:58

an avid listener so we we greatly

4:00

appreciate that. I expect that my life

4:02

will change tremendously now that I'm part

4:04

of the Logan's family. And I just

4:06

love you know non-criminal guerrilla mischief. Absolutely

4:08

love it. So thank you so much.

4:11

That's amazing, amazing. Thanks Neil. Where's this

4:13

picture Bob's? Haven't seen it yet. See

4:15

when Bobo was talking about having his

4:17

Roger Patterson first editions in his safe,

4:19

I thought he was joking, but I

4:21

do see a safe and I think

4:23

that's where they are. That's exactly where

4:26

they are. It's true. It's true. I've

4:28

seen them. Bobo has quite the book

4:30

collection. It may not be as large

4:32

of a collection as some other folks

4:34

in the Bigfoot community, but his, you

4:36

know, the book city has far makeup

4:38

for it. And I got that one,

4:41

I got a couple books that not

4:43

many people have, like that Chinese one,

4:45

the guy said that no non-Chinese had

4:47

the Chinese one, because Danny Perez was

4:49

pretty jealous of that. Yeah, we picked

4:51

that up in Shinosha, right, when we

4:53

were there? Or did you get it

4:56

somewhere else? No, they got it from

4:58

that professor we talked to. Love the

5:00

picture. Okay, I just got the picture,

5:02

it looks amazing, Bob. Just like, that's

5:04

how I always want to remember you.

5:06

Nice. Well, I had some other stuff

5:08

this week that happened that was kind

5:11

of fun. I got, you know, Toby

5:13

Johnson? Oh yeah. Yeah, but good friend,

5:15

good guy. I've done it for a

5:17

long time. You know, I go way

5:19

back. He's the guy that pointed me

5:21

towards the London tracks back in the

5:23

day. So God, I must have met

5:26

him in 2008 or 2010 or something.

5:28

I don't know when. Long time ago.

5:30

He lives up in the Olympic Peninsula

5:32

now. But I like the guy a

5:34

lot. We've been good friends for a

5:36

long time, despite our differing beliefs on

5:38

Sasquatches. But he texted me this past

5:41

week. And he brought up something that,

5:43

well, he basically said, clip, look at

5:45

this, or whatever, you have any thoughts

5:47

on it? And I go, it was

5:49

a YouTube link. And I go, what

5:51

is this? Man, I don't like watching

5:53

Bigfoot YouTube stuff. So I clicked it

5:56

and it turns out it's his page.

5:58

I didn't know he had a YouTube

6:00

channel, but he does and I'm going

6:02

to plug it. In fact, I'll put

6:04

the same link in the show notes

6:06

below. His channel is called Olympic Strange

6:08

Days. Bigfoot, paranormal, everything's on the table

6:11

sort of thing as near as I

6:13

can figure. This is the only. No,

6:15

I've seen two of his videos, but

6:17

they're both having to do with this

6:19

one topic here. So I clicked on

6:21

it, and basically he had access to

6:23

this video that he said he's been

6:25

sitting on for five years. And I

6:28

said, oh, this thing again, right? And

6:30

I said, oh, this thing again, right?

6:32

Because several years ago, and I said,

6:34

oh, this thing again, right? Because several

6:36

years ago, and I told him a

6:38

little bit about it and stuff, and,

6:40

and... and told him what I knew

6:43

about it and it kind of surfaced

6:45

again and he was thinking now I

6:47

don't think maybe he didn't believe me

6:49

at first or maybe he just kind

6:51

of forgot or whatever but I told

6:53

him the origins of it which we'll

6:55

get into in a minute and now

6:58

he started asking other people he has

7:00

quite a few other individuals again if

7:02

you watch the video he can tell

7:04

you from his perspective what he went

7:06

through to get to the bottom of

7:08

this and he sent me a link

7:10

to one of his videos on his

7:13

Olympic strange days YouTube channel And I'm

7:15

looking at the text right now when

7:17

you wrote feedback, who hoaxed this? And

7:19

well, then it wasn't really a hoax.

7:21

That's not really the right word for

7:23

it. So, but I think it's so

7:25

odd how things just cycle back through.

7:28

And basically, the video is a thermal

7:30

video. It appears to show a Saswatch.

7:32

walking through the woods being chased by

7:34

either a drone or a helicopter. It

7:36

was actually a helicopter. I know the

7:38

backstory of this. I've seen photographs and

7:40

all that stuff. But it's basically a

7:43

thermal video of a purported Sasquatch taken

7:45

from a helicopter. And I guess, and

7:47

again, watch Toby's video. He'll tell you

7:49

his version of it, like how he

7:51

got it and what he was told

7:53

about it. So my details, since I've

7:55

not watched the whole video, Toby's video,

7:58

I've just watched the important parts and

8:00

stuff, I might be a little off.

8:02

But basically somebody tried to give this

8:04

to him saying that it was a

8:06

released or leaked military video or something

8:08

like that, taken in the 90s, I

8:10

believe, of a sask watch and its

8:13

secret and all this sort of stuff.

8:15

It wasn't at all. It wasn't at

8:17

all. I know where this video came

8:19

from, so I guess probably that's the

8:21

best story to tell right now, is

8:23

that this video crossed my desk in

8:25

2014, 2015, somewhere in there. Chad Hamel,

8:28

the field producer for Finding Bigfoot, Supervising

8:30

field producer, he's basically in charge of

8:32

the show out in the field. He

8:34

texted this to me because he got

8:36

it, and this is probably at the

8:38

end of 2014, early 2015, somewhere in

8:40

there. He got it from Fleer, from

8:43

Fleer, from Fleer itself. And Fleer was

8:45

clearing out there. You might remember this

8:47

Bobo as I tell more about it.

8:49

I remember the whole thing. Yeah, yeah.

8:51

So Fleer was cleaning out their closets

8:53

at the corporate headquarters there in Wilsonville,

8:55

the local corporate headquarters headquarters, and they

8:58

came across a VHS tape that said

9:00

Bigfoot on it. That's all it said.

9:02

So they popped it in. And sure

9:04

enough, it seemed to show us Asquatch

9:06

wandering around. They had no idea where

9:08

it was coming from or anything like

9:10

that. the screen while they're watching it

9:13

for the first second or third time

9:15

or something like that you know they're

9:17

watching it for the first and then

9:19

they texted that the chat handle and

9:21

said hey you know anything about this

9:23

and Chad texted it to me saying

9:25

clips you know anything about this saying

9:28

clips you know anything about this you

9:30

know anything about it to me saying

9:32

clips you know anything about this you

9:34

know anything about this saying clips you

9:36

know anything about this you know anything

9:38

about this? one of the Mount Hood

9:40

episodes on this particular... piece of footage.

9:43

So now when we shot finding Bigfoot

9:45

we would shoot you know what for

9:47

three to five episodes and then we

9:49

come home for a couple weeks and

9:51

like two weeks and go back on

9:53

the road shoot three to five more

9:55

episodes we'd be gone for like five

9:58

six weeks at a time get home

10:00

we can have two weeks go back

10:02

on the road for five or six

10:04

weeks at a time and you know

10:06

rinse wash repeat for a long time

10:08

and the run we were filming Before

10:10

we were planning to do this particular

10:13

Mount Hood mystery thermal video that Fleer

10:15

discovered, we were shooting the main episode.

10:17

And I was hanging out with Lauren

10:19

Coleman. I was with Lauren and his

10:21

museum and just kind of shooting the

10:23

poop. I was with Lauren and his

10:25

museum and just kind of shooting the

10:28

poop and talking about things that are

10:30

going on and whatever. And I said,

10:32

Lauren, check out this video that we

10:34

have that we're going to be doing

10:36

something on Mount Hood. We don't know

10:38

anything about it. We just. Do you

10:40

remember where? I can't quite remember where?

10:43

I've seen that before, but I know

10:45

I've seen that somewhere. I said, oh,

10:47

that's interesting. If you remember, I'd love

10:49

to hear about it. Cool. And then,

10:51

like, that day or a couple days

10:53

later, I get an email from Lauren

10:55

saying, Cliff, I remembered where it was,

10:58

it was from Unsolved Mysteries episode in

11:00

1994 that Peter Byrne was part of.

11:02

And I go, no kidding, which was

11:04

great, because, you know, you know, we

11:06

almost included that as one of the

11:08

things we're looking into, in our finding

11:10

Bigfoot episode. Oh, I was going, yeah,

11:13

there's no way that can't be real.

11:15

Like, I was like, that's, that's so

11:17

good. Like, I thought I was, I

11:19

thought I was for sure real. Yeah,

11:21

it looked pretty good. I mean, not

11:23

looking at it now, you can, there's

11:25

some telltale things you can tell it's

11:28

a suit. Right. Short arms. Well, yeah.

11:30

Yeah, but the thing that really jumps

11:32

out to me that shows us a

11:34

suit is, you know, again, we're looking

11:36

at heat, right? Because it's the thermal

11:38

imager, you're not looking at an actual

11:40

thing. And by the way, you can

11:43

see this video in Toby's YouTube thing.

11:45

We're not going to post it or

11:47

anything like that because we don't own

11:49

it, but Toby did it, and he's

11:51

cool with that. So you can see

11:53

it on Toby's deal. But basically, where

11:55

the suit rests upon the human. inside

11:58

of it is the warmest part of

12:00

the suit. So you can see the

12:02

top part of the shoulders are much

12:04

warmer than most of the rest of

12:06

the body. You know, and as the

12:08

animal or the guy in the suit

12:10

is walking around, it gets warmer and

12:13

warmer and that exaggerates it more. You

12:15

can basically see where the human is

12:17

in contact with the suit more than

12:19

the parts it's not. And that's one

12:21

of the dead giveaways of a person

12:23

in a suit when you're looking at

12:25

them in thermal imaging, right? So anyway,

12:28

we had to change things around real

12:30

fast and fill a hole in the

12:32

episode that we kind of plugged in

12:34

this particular piece of footage and stuff

12:36

and there you go. So that is

12:38

the source of that video. But and

12:40

I told that to Toby a couple

12:43

years ago, but I guess he forgot

12:45

or was looking for more evidence of

12:47

it or something or you know, and

12:49

again, just like I tell you guys

12:51

all the time, you don't don't believe

12:53

me fact check me. Please do, I

12:55

tell you the truth as I remember

12:58

it, but I'm incorrect sometimes, everybody is,

13:00

no big deal. But I'll always tell

13:02

you my version of the truth, and

13:04

maybe I'm incorrect sometimes, but maybe that's

13:06

what Toby assumed I was, just incorrect.

13:08

So anyway, the sink surface again, and

13:10

I said, well, who hoaxed this? He

13:13

asks, and I go, well, it's not

13:15

a hoax, and it's from 90s, and,

13:17

you know, I followed up, by the

13:19

way, not with Peter, not with Peter,

13:21

but with Larry Lund, but with Larry

13:23

Lund, at the time, at the time,

13:25

I forwarded it to Larry Lund and

13:28

he goes, oh yeah, yeah, I was

13:30

there on that shoot. And then next

13:32

time I was hanging out with Larry,

13:34

because Larry and I get together a

13:36

couple times a year and just hang

13:38

out. He pulled out photographs from that

13:40

very shoot. And it was shot on

13:43

the very shoot. And it was shot

13:45

on the very shoot. And it was

13:47

shot on the east side of Mount

13:49

Hood and he had pictures on the

13:51

very shoot. And it was shot on

13:53

the east side of Mount. Amazon Prime

13:55

has it. That's where I pulled it

13:58

up. So anyway, he was saying, hey,

14:00

can you get any more information on

14:02

it? And I said, well, it's a

14:04

TV show. It was an assault misuse.

14:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because how come I

14:08

can't find the footage online and stuff?

14:10

And I said, well, I don't know,

14:13

but that's what it was. And so

14:15

what I did is. I pulled up

14:17

the episode and kind of re-watched it.

14:19

It turns out that that footage is

14:21

not actually in the episode, which is

14:23

part of the mystery of it, or

14:25

was the mystery of it. And you

14:28

know what it is, is, you know,

14:30

Bob, you'll appreciate this probably more than

14:32

most of our listeners would because you've

14:34

been associated so closely with television for

14:36

so long, is that chasing a Bigfoot

14:38

around with the helicopter really didn't fit

14:40

the storyline that they set up. The

14:43

story that they set up because they

14:45

were doing Peter Burns Bigfoot research project

14:47

and Peter was basically saying look at

14:49

me I've got a helicopter and advanced

14:51

thermal imaging technology and this is in

14:53

94 by the way so firms were

14:55

Practically unheard of at the time. This

14:58

is high high level stuff in 94

15:00

You know you can look at the

15:02

quality of the footage and say oh,

15:04

yeah, that's pretty good quality of term

15:06

right there and for 94. It's outrageous

15:08

you know that was a very expensive

15:10

unit back in the day and Peter

15:13

was basically saying yeah look at the

15:15

tech I have in case you want

15:17

to give my non-profit more money and

15:19

stuff and like look what we can

15:21

do and then that's what it was

15:23

that was the hook of this particular

15:25

segment you know Peter Burns Bigfoot research

15:28

project which was based out in Parkdale

15:30

on the east side of Mount Hood.

15:32

And the story of the episode, when

15:34

you watch the episode of Unsult Mysteries,

15:36

it's, yeah, we're here with this crack

15:38

team of Bigfoot nerds and whatever else,

15:40

and they're doing a run through, a

15:43

practice run, chasing a fugitive, because chasing

15:45

a fugitive will give us more practice

15:47

on chasing a real Bigfoot when that

15:49

time comes. So apparently they film both

15:51

though. And you can see the footage

15:53

of the guy running through the trees

15:55

and everything, but in the footage you'll

15:58

see on Toby's page there, it's actually

16:00

a kind of Bigfoot suit. Now the

16:02

thing is, you can see the GPS

16:04

coordinates in both pieces of footage. You

16:06

can see the date stamp and you

16:08

can see the time stamp on both

16:10

pieces of footage. The GPS coordinates are

16:13

almost identical. The date is obviously the

16:15

same. And the time stamp itself, I

16:17

think the Bigfoot stuff was like five

16:19

minutes later. three to eight minutes. later

16:21

somewhere there. So it was shot right

16:23

after the dude running through the woods

16:25

for practice. Because you aren't going to

16:28

put a helicopter down and then put

16:30

it back up. You're just going to

16:32

make a guy run because helicopters are

16:34

too expensive for that sort of thing.

16:36

So they filmed the dude running the

16:38

dude running through. So they filmed the

16:40

dude running through, which is the actual

16:43

footage that they used in the episode.

16:45

And then they filmed the Bigfoot floor.

16:47

So to speak. Stay tuned for more

16:49

Bigfoot and beyond with Clifin Bobo. We'll

16:51

be right back after these messages. So

16:53

three to six months. So three to

16:55

six months doesn't seem like a long

16:58

time, right? In Bigfoot land, it's not

17:00

very long because we've been looking for

17:02

Sasquatches for decades and decades. But when

17:04

you think about what can happen in

17:06

three to six months, Bobo. I'm gonna

17:08

be giving you six months. Go. Squatchin.

17:10

Squat? Of course, of course. And how

17:13

much do you think is going to

17:15

get done during that time in Squatchin?

17:17

You're going to see one in six

17:19

months? Probably not. But in three to

17:21

six months, what you can see if

17:23

you're not going to see a Sasquatch

17:25

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health care provider who will determine if

18:51

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18:56

So I got to show all this

18:58

stuff to Toby and he happened to

19:00

be driving through town So he's at

19:03

the museum and I pulled up the

19:05

you know the unsolved mysteries episode then

19:07

I put the footage the version I

19:09

have I had it for years and

19:11

years and years in my my hard

19:13

drive Right next to it and I

19:16

pointed out the GPS I pointed out

19:18

the time stuff and I pointed out

19:20

this and that and there you go

19:22

and so one more Misidentification of a

19:24

piece of footage I guess has been

19:26

put to bed and by the way

19:28

The reason I'm bringing this up is

19:31

not only because it's Bigfoot related and

19:33

finding Bigfoot related and you know, it's

19:35

not really a hoax because it was

19:37

a recreation filmed for a TV show,

19:39

right? So they didn't intend for it

19:41

to be a hoax, but since Toby

19:44

posted this, like last week, you know,

19:46

this past week, I should say, what

19:48

is it today? Wednesday? I think Toby

19:50

was in the town on Sunday or

19:52

something. I don't know. Last week he

19:54

started posting all this. It's already crossed

19:56

my desk twice on social media and

19:59

emails and stuff. People saying look at

20:01

this cliff is it real that's a

20:03

military blah blah blah is it out.

20:05

Oh my god. It's this real cliff

20:07

So people are now repurposing this footage

20:09

that was filmed as a recreation and

20:12

Saying that it is a military thing

20:14

or somebody filmed this or has been

20:16

leaked or whatever and if And I'll

20:18

tell you now that is hoaxing the

20:20

footage itself is not a hoax because

20:22

it was never intended for it to

20:24

be a hoax. But people who are

20:27

out there saying that it's real and

20:29

this is the backstory and all this

20:31

other stuff, that could very well cross

20:33

that line, that fuzzy line, into hoaxing.

20:35

So be careful what you believe out

20:37

there. And I'm sure that this is

20:40

not going to be the end of

20:42

this particular piece of footage. It will

20:44

continue to resurface now that has been

20:46

put out in the public realm. People

20:48

are going to grab it. ebb and

20:50

flow through the Bigfoot community over the

20:52

next five or eight years, we will

20:55

continue to see this particular piece of

20:57

footage. But let it be known that

20:59

it is not real and, you know,

21:01

I mean, I, bubble and I both

21:03

saw it and we thought, oh, that

21:05

looks amazing. But it is not real.

21:08

It was, it's not truly a hoax

21:10

until someone purports it to be from

21:12

something that it is not. And they

21:14

know better. Then that's hoaxing. But anyway,

21:16

you know, one of the cool things

21:18

about this about this is that. in

21:20

Toby's video that you can watch that

21:23

because it'll be in the show notes.

21:25

He offers this really cool carved Bigfoot

21:27

head as a prize for whoever can

21:29

can solve this mystery. And he gave

21:31

it to me. I didn't, I told

21:33

him, dude, you don't have to do

21:36

that. He's a chainsaw carver now as

21:38

part of his living. You don't have

21:40

to do that man. We're friends and

21:42

you know, I just saw him. I'm

21:44

glad the truth is out there. But

21:46

he said, no, no, no, this is

21:48

cool. I'm excited about it. And I

21:51

told everybody I would do it and

21:53

I want to do it. So I

21:55

accepted it as a donation to the

21:57

North American Bigfoot Center. So now I

21:59

have two, actually I have three pieces

22:01

of art from Toby Johnson in the

22:04

museum. them and couldn't be happier about

22:06

it and it was nice to hang

22:08

out with Toby again because I just

22:10

love the guys and a lot of

22:12

fun. So we'll be posting some of

22:14

this stuff to probably to the members

22:16

I'm guessing right for it. Yeah that's

22:19

easiest place to the members I'm guessing

22:21

right for it. Yeah that's easiest place

22:23

to host all that stuff. Yeah so

22:25

I'll send you a couple pictures of

22:27

the head and stuff like that and

22:29

I'll be a picture of it on

22:32

the for the members of course. And

22:34

yeah, I got to get to the

22:36

bottom of another mystery, like any, like

22:38

any good hardy boy would. Well done.

22:40

Yeah, I saw that video, I got,

22:42

I got, dude, I got like several

22:44

texts and emails going like, dude, if

22:47

you see this, this is insane. And

22:49

I was like, uh, that's, mystery solved

22:51

already like over 10 years ago. Yeah,

22:53

yeah. It was kind of, it was

22:55

funny to see it again. It's like,

22:57

oh, of course that's going to come

23:00

around again. And so I thought it'd

23:02

be a good idea to spend a

23:04

little time on our podcast here, getting

23:06

out to a lot of people's ears,

23:08

that if you see this, don't believe

23:10

it, don't get all excited about it,

23:12

and diffuse the misinformation. Thanks to Lauren

23:15

Coleman, thank you to Lauren Coleman, because

23:17

he recognized it. I did not. When

23:19

I first saw it, it didn't sound

23:21

like you did either, Bob. So like,

23:23

Lauren, saved us. an embarrassment, but then

23:25

again at the same time, you know,

23:28

that that footage was never actually aired,

23:30

which is part of the reason it

23:32

didn't look familiar, but it looked familiar

23:34

enough because of the other stuff chasing

23:36

the dude through the forest that Lauren

23:38

clued in on it. So it hats

23:40

off to Lauren for putting the pieces

23:43

together for us. And like, imagine the

23:45

embarrassment of finding Bigfoot, that'd be hilarious.

23:47

Embarrassing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the same old

23:49

videos and pictures resurface every year because

23:51

the turnover rate in Sasquatoree. so high

23:53

that there's always like a bevy of

23:56

brand new people who haven't been exposed

23:58

to this stuff and what people do

24:00

like in this case is they're like

24:02

oh I received this it was a

24:04

leak from you know they changed the

24:06

backstory you remember that picture of a

24:08

think it was a melanistic leopard I

24:11

think it was from Africa although it

24:13

might have been a melanistic jaguar in

24:15

South America either way it was taken

24:17

in like an enclosed environment But it's

24:19

been around for like 25 years on

24:21

the internet and everyone's like, oh yeah,

24:24

my cousin got this in his backyard

24:26

in Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Arizona, Arkansas, you

24:28

know, it doesn't matter where people just

24:30

find those pictures reposted and act like

24:32

you know, they're the ones who uncovered

24:34

it and there's a whole new group

24:36

of people to go, oh my God,

24:39

this is amazing. This guy took this

24:41

in his backyard or, you know, Toby

24:43

received leaked Intel for the military or

24:45

whatever the case may be, you know.

24:47

Yeah, I don't know. Again, a lot

24:49

of this is on YouTube and the

24:52

internet and social media and stuff. I

24:54

don't pay too much attention to any

24:56

of that stuff. But Toby was giving

24:58

me, was speaking in such a way

25:00

that led me to believe that there's

25:02

a fair number of people that think

25:04

this is real footage out there. So

25:07

it'll be interesting to see who goes

25:09

to the mat for to say that

25:11

this is real and all that kind

25:13

of stuff. But not that I'll ever

25:15

hear about it or care about or

25:17

care necessarily, but I just think it's

25:20

so funny that it's so funny that

25:22

people that people that people would stick

25:24

to their opinion. you know I'm assuming

25:26

I'm maybe maybe I'm hopefully I'll be

25:28

just wrong about this but I would

25:30

expect some people to stick to their

25:32

opinion instead of the facts because their

25:35

opinion to them are facts there are

25:37

people who sent that or even in

25:39

the past things like that or even

25:41

in the past things like that and

25:43

you know they'll take it pretty hard

25:45

when you deflate them and then they'll

25:48

say things like oh God but I

25:50

wish it was real and we have

25:52

a saying here in the south and

25:54

I'll clean it for the south. I

25:56

love that song. Yeah. I mean there

25:58

was one, a guy sent me a

26:00

couple years ago that was the 2008

26:03

Rick Dyer, Matt Witten. Big Foot body

26:05

in the freezer hoax that someone said,

26:07

a guy who calls himself a Sasquatch

26:09

researcher sent me that picture was like,

26:11

oh my god, have you seen this?

26:13

And I was like, dude, really? Classic.

26:16

Well, yeah, things like that surface all

26:18

the time. I've seen some footprints like

26:20

that as well. And then every once

26:22

in a while something really throws a

26:24

curveball at me, where it's something I

26:26

recognize, but a different version of it,

26:28

that isn't put out there as a

26:31

hoax, but just mistaken identity. I think

26:33

I maybe mentioned this couple, maybe a

26:35

couple months ago, like two or three

26:37

months ago. Yeah, I must have, because

26:39

Meldrum sent me a photograph of a

26:41

footprint in the ground from, he said

26:44

it was from 68 or 69 or

26:46

something, I think it was 68, and

26:48

it was clearly a Patterson Gimlin footprint.

26:50

You know, and I say, oh, this

26:52

might be the first evidence of that

26:54

animal being tracked after the film, you

26:56

know, but it turns out that it

26:59

was another photograph from when Jim McLaren

27:01

went there, not Jim McLaren, um, Lyle

27:03

Laverty, yeah, Lyle Laverty went there. So

27:05

somebody else on his crew took a

27:07

picture or maybe Lyle Laverty took another

27:09

one that had never been published, but

27:12

it was literally one of those same

27:14

footprints in the ground. that wild lavity

27:16

photographed but a different angle at it

27:18

that I'd never seen before. So there's

27:20

stuff out there that every once in

27:22

a while surfaces and this has bad

27:24

information on it because that was whoever

27:27

sent it to Meldrum said that Forest

27:29

Service took it and I think it

27:31

was I think he claimed that he

27:33

took it or one of somebody in

27:35

his family or something but it was

27:37

in 68 and that was incorrect and

27:40

I think Meldrum went back and said

27:42

actually this isn't 68 or 67 and

27:44

the guy kind of like well I'm

27:46

not sure that's accurate that's accurate. But

27:48

it clearly was. You could see the

27:50

same rocks in the picture and it

27:52

was clearly a patty footprint. Yeah, so

27:55

there's all sorts of different iterations of

27:57

that sort of phenomenon, like the same

27:59

things being recycled for the public in

28:01

various ways with various back stories. Some

28:03

nefarious, like straight up, made up, some

28:05

just repeated from somebody else who made

28:08

it up and then some just erroneous.

28:10

I see it a lot with some

28:12

of the new content creators too because

28:14

they're always looking for new things to

28:16

post or talk about so they'll resurrect

28:18

old things that they don't realize or

28:20

hoaxes and put it out to their

28:23

audience like hey what do you guys

28:25

think of this? Or it's like hey

28:27

if you had looked into that for

28:29

five seconds you would have had the

28:31

correct thoughts about it but oh well.

28:33

Yeah well social media really is about

28:35

the quick and easy you know. I

28:38

mean you can, I love that, I

28:40

saw something years ago when I paid

28:42

more attention to it. It was some

28:44

sort of inflammatory headline on an article

28:46

that if you read it, points out

28:48

that nobody reads articles but gets all

28:51

bent out of shape at headlines. And

28:53

it was great because you look at

28:55

the comments and they just, they fed

28:57

right into it. They totally fell for

28:59

the joke dash trap. that was set

29:01

for them and it was absolutely hilarious.

29:03

I just loved it. But you know,

29:06

again, social media is for the quick

29:08

and easy. Frankly, it's for the lazy,

29:10

in my opinion. Like if you don't

29:12

want to know something, go on social

29:14

media. They'll tell you all about what

29:16

you don't want to know. They'll tell

29:19

you all about what you don't want

29:21

to know. I think that's why we

29:23

don't really complex and rich. you can't

29:25

just flatten it into some like two-dimensional

29:27

three-second long five-second long presentation like no

29:29

if you want to hear what this

29:31

is about you might have to listen

29:34

for an hour but then you'll fully

29:36

understand it but no you can't just

29:38

condense it to some short-form thing I

29:40

think people are creating a lot of

29:42

short-form stuff so you see it everywhere

29:44

but most people when they get on

29:47

those apps like YouTube or podcast like

29:49

they want to hear in-depth discussions or

29:51

analyses or explorations of the subjects that

29:53

they're interested in. They don't just want

29:55

to scroll through reals and clips all

29:57

day. They want to dig in. I

29:59

mean, we've been running for six years

30:02

and have tens of thousands of subscribers

30:04

on the audio platform, so of which

30:06

I'm exceedingly extremely grateful. So I think

30:08

that's a testament to that, like,

30:10

no, I don't think everybody just

30:13

wants, you know, quick clips, thankfully. Yeah.

30:15

Well, let's hope, I'm glad. I'm

30:17

glad that seems to be true. Stay

30:19

tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond

30:21

with Cliffen Bobo. We'll be right

30:24

back after these messages. Well,

30:31

you know, enough about that. I mean,

30:33

I think that was an important thing

30:35

to go over because people will be

30:37

seeing this footage out there and now

30:40

you know, now you know, and you

30:42

can help stop the spread

30:44

of misinformation, you know, from

30:46

people who say that they know where

30:48

this came from, where this came

30:51

from, where this came from, where

30:53

this came from, where this came

30:55

from, where this came from, where

30:57

this came from, who's, who's anybody.

30:59

Well this is actually a topical episode and

31:02

for the last half hour or so we're

31:04

gonna dive into a couple of these topics

31:06

and get through as many as we can

31:08

and then we'll run off and do a

31:10

members episode with a couple of those things

31:13

in it. But for now, let's start

31:15

with this one article here. Where

31:17

is it? Let me pull it

31:19

up. Okay this one is manga

31:21

bay is the name of the

31:23

publication and the article's title is

31:25

camera traps capture first glimpse of

31:28

genetically distinct chimps. in Southwestern Nigeria.

31:30

And to summarize this pretty

31:32

much, basically there's a

31:34

very very genetically distinct

31:36

species of chimpanzee that

31:39

is out there in Nigeria in

31:41

its place called, what is

31:43

it, Eiki or Ec, Ec,

31:45

I think it is. It

31:47

was cool as the only

31:49

indigenous grassroots conservation organization in

31:51

all of Nigeria and other ones

31:54

that got the footage, that's a

31:56

good score for them. Absolutely.

31:58

You want to know where the habit's been. animal,

32:00

you talk to a local person. Yeah,

32:02

but this particular article is cool and

32:04

it's very hopeful because they had not

32:07

gotten pictures of these things and they

32:09

were going around telling the local people

32:11

saying, hey, we have to change our

32:13

ways because this rare species of chimp

32:16

is out here, but they had not

32:18

captured any video of them, they had

32:20

not captured any photographs of them, they're

32:22

just saying, I think they're here, and

32:24

then the local people were not willing

32:27

to stop their habits because they weren't

32:29

so sure. I think that's one of

32:31

the one of the big takeaways from

32:33

this article is that I think I

32:35

guess one of the things that like

32:38

there's a lot of land use for

32:40

you know like marijuana cultivation in this

32:42

particular area. Yeah surprised to see that.

32:44

I was like what? Nigeria there's a

32:47

weed growing region? There's no idea. Yeah,

32:49

and of course we've growing, I just

32:51

plant everything, but a lot of the

32:53

chemicals that are used in it are

32:55

really damaging to the environment, you know.

32:58

I guess a lot of the fertilizers

33:00

in particular or whatever, and it's a

33:02

very nutrient hungry plant, I guess. So

33:04

yeah, they were kind of screwed up

33:06

a lot of land and taking a

33:09

lot of the habitat from these chimpanzees

33:11

for marijuana and other things as well.

33:13

They're just damaging the environment. But now

33:15

that they got a picture of one

33:18

of these things. The local people are

33:20

saying, oh, okay, oh, yeah, now we're

33:22

with you. Now we can help out.

33:24

Now that we know that what's up,

33:26

we're happy to do some stuff and

33:29

change our ways a little bit to

33:31

help these chimpanzees, because it is a

33:33

very endangered species chimpanzee or type of

33:35

chimpanzee or subspecies, I guess. They estimate

33:38

there's about 25 of these things, living

33:40

in an area of about 8,000 acres.

33:42

Now 8,000 acres that sounds like a

33:44

lot and it is don't get me

33:46

wrong but I didn't know how much

33:49

it was so did a little math

33:51

it's 12.5 square miles you know so

33:53

something about three and a half miles

33:55

on a side like a square that

33:57

big 25 chimpanzees are living in that

34:00

big or small of an area. which

34:02

I think is a big takeaway as

34:04

well because you think with that limited

34:06

of a range people would be seeing

34:09

these things more often right? Yeah I

34:11

think the bush meat hunters is the

34:13

biggest problem for those guys there because

34:15

that's a smaller to be a bush

34:17

meat hunter. Oh yeah and 25 you

34:20

know 25 animals wouldn't get you very

34:22

far if that's what you know lived

34:24

on. Right. Yeah but pretty cool pretty

34:26

cool and you know there a lot

34:28

of the comment in this articles about

34:31

how the habitat is just really... damaged

34:33

in a lot of ways. Here's a

34:35

quote. The forest was badly degraded and

34:37

the chimps were mostly found along the

34:40

forests by the river, which makes a

34:42

lot of sense because that's where the

34:44

richest habitat is going to be. That's

34:46

where most of the food is going

34:48

to be, food water cover. That's what

34:51

all the animals need. But even then,

34:53

these things were not seen very often.

34:55

A lot of the people who lived

34:57

there didn't even think there were any

35:00

in there. And now that's all changed

35:02

with a couple of good photographs. I

35:04

think kind of the same thing. If

35:06

Warehouser shared a picture that they got

35:08

or somebody like you or me or

35:11

somebody got a game camera picture across

35:13

the road from warehouse or land, maybe

35:15

that would change something. It would certainly

35:17

not make Warehouser very happy, I'm sure,

35:19

because they don't want to change anything.

35:22

Warehouser, of course, is a big logging

35:24

company out here in the Pacific Northwest.

35:26

I don't know if they're a nationwide,

35:28

if they're in the South. I'm not

35:31

certain of warehouses in the southeast. I

35:33

mean, I've seen that name a lot,

35:35

but there's other big timber companies like,

35:37

you know, obviously in Georgia, Pacific, land,

35:39

and then Rayanier is another big one.

35:42

But, you know, I've seen warehouse or

35:44

a lot, but I couldn't tell you

35:46

from memory, like, which states I've seen

35:48

that in, if it was just in

35:50

the Northwest or not. Yeah, I kind

35:53

of have to wonder like if there

35:55

was a couple, there were a couple

35:57

really good pieces of footage or pictures

35:59

or something and people, even if it

36:02

wasn't a proven species yet, Saswatches weren't

36:04

exactly academically accepted, what that might do

36:06

to the land use folks, you know.

36:08

Would they change their ways at all?

36:10

Because that's one of my great hopes

36:13

about the discovery of the Sasquatch, the

36:15

academic acceptance, the recognition of the Sasquatch,

36:17

is that it's, ironically, it would leave

36:19

humans with an opportunity to leave a

36:22

smaller footprint on the environment. I like

36:24

to play on words, I like the

36:26

idea, and I also like the outcome

36:28

if that's true. But I don't know

36:30

if, you know, our profit-driven society would

36:33

do that. I don't know. Yeah, I

36:35

was trying to see in here if

36:37

they. specified like how many cameras were

36:39

used in the study, you know, the

36:41

distribution of those cameras because there's certainly

36:44

lessons to be learned here. I mean,

36:46

we'd be so lucky as to be

36:48

able to focus on an area of

36:50

that size that had as many as

36:53

25 individuals in it. I think 12

36:55

square miles, 8,000 acres might be like

36:57

one quarter of one individual's range, you

36:59

know, at least in certain forests in

37:01

North America. So it's still a difficult

37:04

proposition, but it would be interesting to

37:06

know, you know, how many cameras they

37:08

use like, and of how many cameras.

37:10

how many captured this individual or individual's

37:12

how long the cameras were deployed before

37:15

they got results. I think that might

37:17

be a lot to learn from that.

37:19

I just don't see that in this

37:21

particular article. Yeah, that would be a

37:24

useful data. That's for sure to kind

37:26

of compare notes there. Yeah, because I

37:28

don't, I personally don't really, I'm not

37:30

seeing that Sasquatch have it like a

37:32

range is really really big. You know,

37:35

at least for the female young pairs.

37:37

And again, I don't have a lot

37:39

of data. I've got three areas. I've

37:41

got three areas. and I've barely scratched

37:44

the surface of either one, but you

37:46

know, I think eight miles on the

37:48

side, so 65 square miles or something

37:50

like that, or 64 square miles, or

37:52

maybe less, maybe more, 100 square miles

37:55

is probably reasonable for a little family

37:57

group, I don't know. A hundred square

37:59

miles is probably reasonable for a little

38:01

family group. I don't really know. I

38:03

don't really know. I don't really know.

38:06

I think you would send that you

38:08

stumble across, and so I just, you

38:10

know. when I'm compiling them grab one

38:12

of the links because every once in

38:15

a while there'll be a duplicate it

38:17

might be two different media outlets covering

38:19

the same finding or the same news

38:21

item or something like that, but it

38:23

was interesting. I think it would be

38:26

a lot to learn from that, but

38:28

I'm always interested in that technical side.

38:30

Like what kind of cameras were they

38:32

using? How many, how well hidden were

38:34

they? Were they just strapped to trees?

38:37

They used other methods of hiding them?

38:39

Were they out there for days or

38:41

weeks or months before they captured these

38:43

images, you know? You know, when I

38:46

was talking two years ago, I did

38:48

a, I did Lauren Coleman's conference, you

38:50

know, the, his museum thing out there

38:52

in the east, the northeast somewhere, and

38:54

Dr. Anna Nicaris was on the gig

38:57

with us, and so I got to

38:59

know her a little bit, and she

39:01

had a lot of really interesting things

39:03

to say, of course, but one of

39:05

the things that she mentioned is that,

39:08

well, whatever you guys are doing, it's

39:10

not working. And wherever it lands, put

39:12

a camera there. It's like, wow, really.

39:14

So yeah, yeah, it's a way to

39:17

do random sampling in a way. So

39:19

yeah, do that. It's like, no kidding.

39:21

Unbelievable. Yeah. So I'd like to love

39:23

to have a chance to pick her

39:25

brain again, since she has so much

39:28

field time in Sumatra studying that other

39:30

little thing that she says, an octurnal

39:32

primate that she's studying out there. So

39:34

yeah. A lot of different ways to

39:37

approach the game camera ways to approach

39:39

the game camera thing. When I spoke

39:41

with Gareth Patterson, the first time that

39:43

I interviewed him, he made a really,

39:45

because he made an observation in the

39:48

book that I brought up that I

39:50

wanted to dive into and it was

39:52

really interesting. His takeaway was that basically,

39:54

you know, as someone who's pursued animals

39:56

in the wild, especially like rare elusive

39:59

animals. He said, sometimes I think that

40:01

our presuppositions, whether conscious or unconscious or

40:03

explicit, are actually taking us further away

40:05

from. where they're most likely to be

40:08

encountered than we think. And he had

40:10

said like when he first started pursuing

40:12

the elephants there in the Nizna forests,

40:14

I know he would find tracks and

40:16

he would find dung and you know

40:19

he was constantly revisiting these places, but

40:21

he couldn't he couldn't have a sighting.

40:23

He was. trying to lay eyes on

40:25

him, I think maybe once or twice

40:27

he had caught, you know, a glimpse

40:30

of like a patch of gray skin

40:32

through the brush as one got away

40:34

from him. And then he just said,

40:36

you know, one day randomly, his girlfriend

40:39

and him were going to go walk

40:41

the dog and she was like, you

40:43

know, one day randomly, his girlfriend and

40:45

we're going to go walk the dog.

40:47

And she was like, why don't we

40:50

just go walk him, mother and a

40:52

calf? They watched it through binoculars out

40:54

in the open for like an hour.

40:56

And he had said, you know, I

40:59

was looking for elephants when I had

41:01

the oatong siding. And when I started

41:03

looking for the oatong, I started seeing

41:05

the leopards, and then I'd start looking

41:07

for the leopards, and then I'd start

41:10

looking for the leopards, and I'd start

41:12

looking for the leopards, and I'd start

41:14

looking for the leopards, and I'd run

41:16

into the leoperns. And, you know, if

41:18

you practice something that's more random, your

41:21

odds actually go up. Like, instead of

41:23

planning for days and weeks, like, I'm

41:25

going to go to this spot and

41:27

stake out this area and this, so

41:30

there could be something to that with

41:32

camera placement or who knows what else,

41:34

too. Well, I think that's a really

41:36

good take on things, and then it

41:38

kind of mirrors the experience of a

41:41

long-term witnesses. You know, the people who

41:43

live out in the woods and occasionally

41:45

have sask watches around. It's when they

41:47

break their own habits that they actually

41:49

see these things. You know, I was

41:52

having a conversation with someone who listens

41:54

to the podcast about a good ways

41:56

to do it. And then this person

41:58

was kept suggesting go to the same

42:01

place, the same time, and whatever, every

42:03

single week, do the same things every

42:05

single week. And that way it has

42:07

like a baseline, a scientific rigidity, a

42:09

scientific rigidity, like a method. that other

42:12

people can follow and stuff and I'm

42:14

thinking that I don't know if that

42:16

I mean yeah yeah sure that would

42:18

be good but all you're What you're

42:21

going to get, maybe not all you're

42:23

going to get, but what you're mostly

42:25

going to get are the animals who

42:27

have their habits that happen to the

42:29

coincide with yours. And certainly Sasquatches have

42:32

these habits, but I'm not so sure

42:34

they're as predictable as mine. You know?

42:36

So I don't know. I think that

42:38

the best Bigfoot stuff comes from being

42:40

at the wrong place when nobody expected

42:43

it. You know, I really think that.

42:45

Yeah, because I mean, after going to

42:47

the spot now for four years or

42:49

something, there's not a lot of patterns

42:52

developing. Well, it's just like Paul Freeman,

42:54

with, he saw that one and filmed

42:56

that one, because he went there in

42:58

the morning, because he went out of

43:00

his normal, he wasn't on his normal

43:03

pattern, he went like an off time.

43:05

Yeah, he went later, he went a

43:07

couple hours later than normal on that

43:09

particular day. And maybe the Sasquashes were

43:11

getting used to it, I don't know,

43:14

I don't know. It's were getting hard

43:16

to say. It's hard to say. It's

43:18

hard to say. I don't know. It's

43:20

hard to say. It's hard to say.

43:23

It's hard to say. I don't know.

43:25

It's hard to say. I don't know.

43:27

It's hard to say. It's hard to

43:29

say. are something that really come into

43:31

play and Bigfoot at least. For sure.

43:34

That's my feeling on it at least,

43:36

but again, data would be nice, but

43:38

there's not enough data to really compare

43:40

much with right now. So, so I

43:43

just try once a week. I don't

43:45

always go on the same day, and

43:47

I don't even go to, I try

43:49

to go to the same two places

43:51

every single week, and then if I

43:54

have time I go somewhere else, I

43:56

go somewhere else, that sort of thing.

43:58

That's been helping a little bit, but

44:00

again. Not as much as I'd like,

44:02

I haven't put my eyes on one

44:05

yet, so we'll see. Stay tuned for

44:07

more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliffin Bobo.

44:09

We'll be right back after these messages.

44:11

We also had this one from nature.com

44:14

on how Homo erectus adapted to Step

44:16

Desert Climate Extremes one million years ago,

44:18

about how they, uh, they assumed that

44:20

they were, you know, and really... narrow

44:22

specific spots that you know like like

44:25

a little ecological niche that they didn't

44:27

have it, but they were much more

44:29

like the homeless, they thought like, we

44:31

knew homeless savings went all over the

44:33

world, but we didn't know that Homo

44:36

erectus was able to adapt to different

44:38

extremes of climate as much as, as

44:40

much as they were, they now know

44:42

from this paper they're talking about. Yeah,

44:45

according, when you look at the article,

44:47

the places that they lived make a

44:49

lot of sense, because that would be

44:51

the places where the most food is

44:53

and the most variety, like the fluvial

44:56

landscapes. you know, the rivers are flowing

44:58

out of the mountains or whatever into

45:00

the the deserty environment. Actually, I learned

45:02

what fluvial stuff was when I visited

45:04

Death Valley because that's where, you can

45:07

see that kind of thing. It's basically

45:09

a river coming out of the highlands

45:11

and then spreading out widely like a

45:13

fan across the flattered desert, usually desert-like

45:16

environments. That's what fluvial landscapes are. And

45:18

of course, that's where the water is.

45:20

That's where flooding is going to be.

45:22

a lot of interesting things to be

45:24

washing down from the woods, from the

45:27

hills. That's where a lot of the

45:29

animals are going to be hanging out.

45:31

And at least, and I remember in

45:33

Death Valley, I went to the wonderful

45:36

museum they have there, that's where most

45:38

of the human artifacts also came from,

45:40

which makes a lot of sense because

45:42

homo rectus, homo sapiens, they're going to,

45:44

there's a lot of overlapping needs and

45:47

just preferences really. the fact that homorectus

45:49

is doing this is just again hats

45:51

off to homorectus because they are they

45:53

were I think that they're kind of

45:55

the champions man they are the as

45:58

far as I know at least I

46:00

could be incorrect and if I am

46:02

please tell me but I think that

46:04

they're the probably the most successful hominin

46:07

species I mean they they were around

46:09

for a long long time way longer

46:11

than we are you know I mean

46:13

because we've been around for about 300

46:15

thousand years I think is the number

46:18

that that people are thinking at this

46:20

point and that might change or we

46:22

might have been around longer. We'll see

46:24

about 300,000 years for Homo sapiens, but

46:26

I mean Homo rectus was around for

46:29

millions, right? Like at least a million

46:31

or two. Two million years. There you

46:33

go. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's, that's

46:35

like seven times longer than we've been

46:38

around. Yeah, two million years, that's, that's,

46:40

that's, that's incredibly long. I mean, we're

46:42

not gonna, I doubt we're gonna reach

46:44

that record. Yeah, yeah, I don't think

46:46

so either. But again, it goes back

46:49

to adaptability. These things were smart enough

46:51

to adapt to adapt to their environment.

46:53

Of course, they had tools, they had

46:55

tools, they had all that sort of

46:58

sort of sort of stuff. to the

47:00

changing environments. You know, there was climate

47:02

change during that time that affected them.

47:04

They adapted to different biomes and different

47:06

source of habitats and different food resources

47:09

and they spread out all throughout Asia

47:11

and Africa and Asia, but they were

47:13

very successful. I'm kind of surprised they

47:15

didn't make it to North America at

47:17

some point, I guess. Maybe the land

47:20

bridge wasn't around when they're in their

47:22

heyday. I don't really know. But... really

47:24

astonishing species in many many ways and

47:26

remember this is one of my favorites

47:29

just because the type specimen the holotype

47:31

the first one ever discovered that told

47:33

us that these things existed at all

47:35

came from Southeast Asia but yet we

47:37

found out later that there are older

47:40

versions in Africa so it really really

47:42

neat species to study and we can

47:44

learn a lot from so they weren't

47:46

specialized I don't think they probably groups

47:48

of them were like cultures of them

47:51

were But they weren't, they clearly as

47:53

a species itself, they didn't, it didn't

47:55

rely on one thing like pandas rely

47:57

on bamboo or something like that. They

48:00

didn't rely on one thing which enabled

48:02

them to be so successful and spread

48:04

over such a huge area. And I

48:06

would argue that Sasquatches and their ilk

48:08

are the same way. They're smart enough

48:11

to get outside their niches, niches. They're

48:13

not dependent on one particular kind of

48:15

food or plant that that food or

48:17

plant went extinct or couldn't find it.

48:20

They'd all die. Sasquatches, like homorectus, like

48:22

homorectus, have ecological flexibility, essentially is what

48:24

it comes to. down to and that's

48:26

what allowed them allows them to be

48:28

so successful and whether the the Sasquot

48:31

or the yawie or the yarin in

48:33

China or anywhere else in the world

48:35

you know that kind of thing if

48:37

those are Sasquatches or not it shows

48:39

that hominins are smart enough not to

48:42

be paint themselves in a ecological corner

48:44

you know it's a very good at

48:46

niche switching yeah yeah Well, you got

48:48

to wonder if like some other hominins,

48:51

you know, and what little we know

48:53

about them. When we're looking at the,

48:55

you know, what trace evidence we have

48:57

these other hominins, maybe it's like, you

48:59

know, toothwear or tools that are found

49:02

in association with them, you got to

49:04

wonder if the specialization just this is

49:06

more of an incomplete. we look at

49:08

the archaeological evidence than true ecological limits.

49:10

I suspect that hominins being as smart

49:13

as we are, probably were much more

49:15

flexible, I think, than many, maybe current

49:17

day paleoanthropologists give them credit for. And

49:19

the ones that were not flexible had

49:22

the shortest evolutionary existence before their particular

49:24

branch, you know, bit the dust. That's

49:26

the advantage of generalists as you know

49:28

generalized omnivores which at least with giganticus

49:30

we know that they had a very

49:33

broad diverse diet even though they weren't

49:35

necessarily omnivorous or at least we don't

49:37

have the evidence of omnivore but within

49:39

like an herbivorous diet very broad massive

49:42

array of food stuff so they certainly

49:44

weren't the bamboo specialists that they were

49:46

once thought to be and that's the

49:48

advantage that generalists like that have. is

49:50

that you know they have the ability

49:53

to occupy multiple different environments and to

49:55

adapt and to be flexible not only

49:57

have dietary flexibility but to also be

49:59

able to inhabit these different environments. So

50:01

it was fascinating to read this particular

50:04

article about Homo erectus for sure and

50:06

think about what clearly has to be

50:08

the most flexible species that's ever existed

50:10

being Homo sapiens and all the niche

50:13

switching that we do constantly not only

50:15

across evolutionary time but in modern day

50:17

as well so I think there are

50:19

a lot of implications for the Saswatch

50:21

and other mystery apes like you mentioned.

50:24

Well yeah you know it makes me

50:26

wonder since Homo erectus was so amazingly

50:28

successful. I've heard that they are around

50:30

very very recently. I think that most

50:32

of the most of the stuff you're

50:35

going to find online indicates they win.

50:37

I don't even, I don't know when

50:39

they went extinct. They said 120,000 years

50:41

ago. It's pretty recent man and certainly

50:44

if that's, if that, if that number

50:46

is what is generally thought to be

50:48

true, that certainly wasn't the last holorectus.

50:50

You've got to wonder if any of

50:52

these mystery apes around the world, you

50:55

know, these these sashwatch-like critters in various

50:57

corners of the globe, if any of

50:59

them are relics homorectus in some sort

51:01

of way. I mean, Neanderthals in Denisovans,

51:03

those might be the almosteer, who knows

51:06

what's going on over there, right? But

51:08

maybe they're homorectus. I mean, you just

51:10

don't know because these things were around

51:12

for a long, long time. What? could

51:15

cause something that's so adaptable and so

51:17

smart and all that to go extinct.

51:19

But then again, you know, like, they're

51:21

not, apparently these, whatever these things are

51:23

in Eastern Europe and all that stuff,

51:26

they're not using fire. So it seems

51:28

kind of weird that they would let,

51:30

they would not be using fire still

51:32

if they were still around, and I

51:35

think homearactes had fire, right? I'm pretty

51:37

sure it did. Seems like that's an

51:39

awfully useful adaptation to just get rid

51:41

of. like an escapee or you know

51:43

prisoner war whatever you don't light fires

51:46

because that's how you get found yeah

51:48

yeah maybe it's a conscious decision but

51:50

or they didn't and they just lost

51:52

the technology is what you're suggesting because

51:54

of their clandestine lifestyle yeah I think

51:57

I think that could that could account

51:59

for or if these things are them,

52:01

like if they do try to be

52:03

something that we know in the record,

52:06

that fossil record that has the

52:08

ability to use fire, then I

52:10

mean, I know some people swear they

52:12

still, the Bigfoot still use fire,

52:14

but I don't think they do. Not

52:17

only that's a reality at all,

52:19

but it could be, I mean, it could

52:21

have been like, you know, if ever time

52:23

they had a fire, they had guys with

52:25

spears showing up, they might quit

52:28

doing that. I guess it's true.

52:30

Yeah, I did a quick search.

52:32

I got 108 to 117,000 years

52:34

ago for home erectus. So it's

52:37

a blink of an eye, man.

52:39

It's a blink of an eye.

52:41

And those are certainly are

52:43

not the last home erectus

52:46

that survived. No. Yeah, the

52:48

odds are fine. Yeah. The

52:50

odds are fine. They're not

52:53

the last home erectus that

52:55

survived. No. Yeah. The odds

52:57

are fine. ancient species of

52:59

hominid, but I think they have more

53:01

Neliti than any other species and

53:03

that's just mostly all from the

53:06

rising star cave because they were

53:08

preserved down there. So yeah, so in two

53:10

million years, we don't know really that much

53:12

about, I mean, if they got more of Neliti,

53:14

and that's, I mean, that would fill up,

53:16

not even like a, not even like a

53:18

closet, it wouldn't take to hold that, like

53:20

a tote, probably, like, like, a, a, a,

53:22

like, a, a, a, like, a, a, a,

53:24

a, a, a, a, a, And that they're around

53:27

for what 400,000 years of the lady.

53:29

I don't know how long they were around for.

53:31

I don't know. I think that the lady

53:33

isn't isn't a lady just known from that

53:35

one site? Yes, but there's many,

53:37

many individuals. Well, still, you

53:39

gotta wonder like what what what kind

53:42

of forces would drive homo rectus extinct

53:44

if they were so darn good at

53:46

doing what they do, you know? It looks

53:48

like with Neliti there

53:50

are 1,550 bones representing

53:52

737 different skeletal elements

53:54

and at least 15

53:56

different individuals. So I'm trying to

53:58

see what the case is. erectus.

54:01

Hat's off to home erectus. He's a

54:03

real stand-up guy. Oh, nice. Excellent. How's

54:05

a dad joke Cliff could be proud

54:07

of? I am proud of you. It's

54:09

my boy. That's one of your dirty

54:11

uncle, Joe. Plus the dad Bobo's the

54:13

dirty uncle. Well, there's a couple of

54:16

other articles and we did get some

54:18

a few additional questions from the honorary

54:20

patrons over there on patrons So I

54:22

don't know whenever you guys feel like

54:24

hopping over to that side of the

54:26

conversation to dig into some other things

54:28

But one of which was submitted by

54:31

a member and occasionally listeners do submit

54:33

articles, but yeah, I would definitely encourage

54:35

more of you if you come across

54:37

something that you think is rather squatchy

54:39

even if it's not directly squatch related,

54:41

but you think it's relevant. Please send

54:43

it in because we know we're always

54:46

accumulating accumulating these and It would be

54:48

great to see more of those coming

54:50

from the listeners for sure. Yeah, you

54:52

know what occurred to me? It says

54:54

we're kind of closing down shop here

54:56

and moving over to the member section.

54:58

And of course, if you want to

55:00

be a member, hit that link and

55:03

do all that stuff because you get

55:05

these episodes with zero commercials in them

55:07

at all of them at all that

55:09

stuff because you get these episodes with

55:11

zero commercials in them at all of

55:13

them at all. And you get these

55:15

episodes with zero commercials in them at

55:18

all. It's just. We never talk about

55:20

that. We never ever talk about that

55:22

and it might be a good thing

55:24

because how fun is it to see

55:26

these things out in public at conferences.

55:28

So I'd like to push that just

55:30

for a second if you don't mind.

55:33

Go to sasquatchprints.com and hit the link

55:35

that says Bigfoot and beyond like merchandise

55:37

and stuff. You know, I mean, it

55:39

doesn't make us a lot of money

55:41

or anything. That's mostly fun. I think

55:43

we make like. like two or three

55:45

bucks a shirt, like it's not a

55:48

really big money thing for us. You

55:50

really got to understand that. The joy

55:52

of it is seeing these things at

55:54

conferences. And so check this out. I've

55:56

got a bunch of conferences coming up.

55:58

I'm going to be in Mountain Hood

56:00

here second week, I think in April.

56:03

I'm going to be in Estes Park.

56:05

and Colorado. A week or two after

56:07

that, I'm gonna do the Ohio Conference

56:09

first weekend in May. I'm doing Charlie

56:11

Raymond's conference out in Kentucky the last

56:13

weekend. I've got a lot of stuff

56:15

coming up. If you come to the

56:18

table and you're wearing a Bigfoot and

56:20

beyond. If you come to the table

56:22

and you're wearing a Bigfoot and beyond

56:24

shirt or hoodie or something like that,

56:26

I'll give you a free sticker. So

56:28

if you want to do that, feel

56:30

free to come up. We're in the

56:33

merchant, you know. You had a free

56:35

sticker. I just think it's fun to

56:37

see these things. We'll take a picture

56:39

together. We'll put it on the member

56:41

section. It'll be fun. So go to

56:43

sasquatchprints.com and get your Big Foot and

56:45

Beyond merch. Yeah, I love seeing those.

56:48

Yeah, we have forgotten to mention that

56:50

for a while. I always put the

56:52

link in the show notes of every

56:54

episode. But we have forgotten to mention

56:56

it. And then when I was with

56:58

you at the NABC in January, Brandon,

57:00

another artist friend of his friend of

57:03

his were there, and they were there,

57:05

and they were there, and they were

57:07

designing a new for one of my

57:09

suggestions. So hopefully that thing's ready to

57:11

roll out because they did a pretty

57:13

cool design when I was there. Okay,

57:15

well, I can reach out to him

57:18

and spur him on a little bit,

57:20

see what's going on with that. So

57:22

yeah, sasquatchprints.com, hit that link, buy a

57:24

shirt if you feel like it, and

57:26

you can come up and see me,

57:28

you'll get a free sticker. So that's

57:30

kind of fun. All right. Y'all keep

57:33

it squishy. Thanks for listening to this

57:35

week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If

57:37

you liked what you heard, please rate

57:39

and review us on iTunes. Subscribe to

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57:43

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57:48

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57:50

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57:52

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57:54

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