0:05

Hey folks, it's Jeremy Kirkland. You're listening

0:07

to Blamo. How are we doing? We

0:09

hanging in there? We hanging we hanging

0:11

out? Are we surviving? Are we thriving?

0:14

Oh man, it's uh, look I don't

0:16

know how it is out there, but

0:18

it's cozy in here and I'm very

0:20

glad you're here listening to

0:23

the pod My guest this week are

0:25

the co-owners of Murs B. Shfannon. Did

0:27

you hear me say it right? Did

0:29

you hear me? Did you hear me?

0:32

You hear me nail it? a

0:34

little bit of extra pronunciation coaching

0:36

before I recorded this intro.

0:38

It's Mers Bish Fannin. I'm trying

0:40

to do it. Some just say Mers, but

0:43

we all know the brand. We

0:45

all love the brand. Gita and

0:47

Peter Plutniki. The life and business

0:49

partners and yes, co-owners of

0:52

Mers B Shannin. Man, this was

0:54

a great pod. You all know I love

0:56

clothes. I love fits. I also love

0:58

to admit my own idiacy and how

1:00

I get dressed. But I'll be honest,

1:03

what I really, really love, like, what

1:05

I love doing this pod, is talking

1:07

to people about how they're

1:09

maintaining a career doing this. I

1:11

think we all know, like, making

1:14

clothes is hard. It's very, very

1:16

hard. And running a brand is

1:18

hard, especially in this day and age.

1:20

But Gita and Peter, they do

1:22

it incredibly well. And it was an

1:25

absolute joy to speak with them about

1:27

it on the pod. We discussed

1:29

the infamous Bear shirt, you know the

1:31

Bear T-shirt, we all know the one,

1:33

how they went from Loop Wheel to

1:35

a full collection of sportswear, product overbrand,

1:38

the importance of customer input, how

1:40

their personal styles reflect the collection, and

1:42

more. It's all in there, right here,

1:44

on Blamo. Let's go! I

1:48

actually was in Berlin since

1:50

February when we finalized the

1:53

fairs and the sales season

1:55

and since then working on

1:58

the collection and yeah. trying

2:00

to get the products on

2:02

point, talking to production sites

2:04

and yeah, was traveling to

2:06

Portugal, but now I'm back

2:09

in Berlin. Yeah, I was

2:11

three and a half weeks

2:13

in the US, so mostly

2:15

in New York, one week

2:17

in Florida and in Miami,

2:19

so I had a great

2:21

time, as always. Nice. Especially

2:23

in New York, I really

2:25

love this city, and so

2:27

I'm, yeah. always happy to

2:29

be there yeah new york

2:31

is a great city but

2:34

you too live in berlin

2:36

which in my opinion is

2:38

the greatest city oh thank

2:40

you so much Yeah, it

2:42

is nice. It's really nice.

2:44

It's very vibrant, especially in

2:46

summer. In winter, actually I

2:48

prefer New York because there's

2:50

much more blue sky and

2:52

more sunny days. So we

2:54

try to get the best

2:57

of both. Yeah, yeah, winter

2:59

in Berlin sometimes is really

3:01

depressing. Six to ten weeks.

3:03

no sunny day it's yeah

3:05

oh really is it that

3:07

long yeah sometimes it can

3:09

be quite challenging so we

3:11

really enjoy the sun in

3:13

New York yeah I guess

3:15

I've only been there in

3:17

this in the spring in

3:19

the summer yeah so that's

3:22

amazing yeah that's beautiful yeah

3:24

that's beautiful yeah that's beautiful

3:26

anyways for me in New

3:28

York in every day the

3:30

sun is shining even it's

3:32

cloudy so it is it

3:34

is a great city for

3:36

sure How has market been

3:38

for you? So I mean

3:40

we're recording this in early

3:42

spring, but you all had

3:45

just kind of wrapped up

3:47

some of the market appointments.

3:49

To be honest, every time

3:51

when we're at the fair

3:53

and we finalize the season,

3:55

I'm totally overwhelmed because I'm

3:57

no, I'm like literally so.

3:59

grateful and so happy because

4:01

the market is really good

4:03

and more and more customers

4:05

want to or do order

4:07

our garments and the ones

4:10

we already have they're ordering

4:12

more and just getting this

4:14

kind of feedback it really

4:16

makes me so happy I

4:18

don't know it's like it's

4:20

like birthday and Christmas at

4:22

once it's just not no

4:24

it's just like because then

4:26

you know for what you

4:28

do all the work if

4:30

you see that people really

4:32

enjoy what you're doing and

4:35

then if you can do

4:37

something that is enjoyable for

4:39

others, I think for me

4:41

it's the best. I mean

4:43

this really makes me happy.

4:45

Yeah, and I think especially

4:47

returning customers to see that

4:49

the business with our products

4:51

is doing really well. So

4:53

they are increasing the orders

4:55

and they are sometimes like

4:58

so excited. Oh, we were

5:00

so fast sold out with

5:02

your products and it's absolutely

5:04

amazing. And yeah, that's. I

5:06

think one of the best

5:08

feedbacks you can get. Well,

5:10

and for me, I mean,

5:12

you know, I had kind

5:14

of always associated MERS as

5:16

a, like a shirt brand,

5:18

you know, like a t-shirt

5:20

brand. And this is pre

5:23

the bear, which we'll talk

5:25

about and all that other

5:27

stuff. But like, for me,

5:29

it was just really, really

5:31

well made. beautiful like classic

5:33

pieces of clothing like you

5:35

know t-shirts and shirts but

5:37

I think this year really

5:39

took me by surprise specifically

5:41

with the spring summer 25

5:43

collection now I know that

5:46

you guys just wrapped up

5:48

you know fall but seeing

5:50

the evolution of you all

5:52

go from for me go

5:54

from like kind of like

5:56

you know very good singular

5:58

pieces to these full full

6:00

collections is really exciting. So

6:02

before we get too into

6:04

it, I do want to,

6:06

you know, discuss. you know,

6:08

what led to this and

6:11

or, you know, forgive me

6:13

if I'm mistaken. Was it

6:15

always this way? Thank you.

6:17

First of all, thanks for

6:19

pointing that out. That is

6:21

a really nice kind of

6:23

you. So actually, we started,

6:25

as you said, with t-shirts

6:27

and hand days and jerseys,

6:29

but how do you say,

6:31

like in our mind, in

6:33

our back mind, we always

6:36

had the stream of one

6:38

day having like, you know,

6:40

like this timeless. classic essentials

6:42

made of good quality. So

6:44

we always like step by

6:46

step added a new category

6:48

at one point. It wasn't

6:50

it where some accessories. Then

6:52

it was maybe a woven

6:54

shirt. Then we were super

6:56

courageous and experimental and we

6:59

did the pants. And so

7:01

step by step and now.

7:03

To be honest, sometimes I'm

7:05

in our showroom or in

7:07

our store and I'm like,

7:09

wow, we really got a

7:11

lot different styles now. And

7:13

I mean, we all made

7:15

them and it's, yeah, it's

7:17

nice to see and then

7:19

when you mention that it's

7:21

like a full collection that's

7:24

having this awareness, like, yeah,

7:26

now we're really having like

7:28

a full collection and that

7:30

customers like it and that

7:32

they buy it and not

7:34

just stick to the t-shirt

7:36

to the t-shirt, but. more

7:38

and more even the woven

7:40

styles, especially the knitwear in

7:42

winter, are getting like so

7:44

much more attention now. We're

7:47

shifting away from the t-shirts

7:49

and that's I think very

7:51

exciting to see. Yeah, so

7:53

I think this autumn winter

7:55

25 season it was also

7:57

in terms of different product

7:59

categories, a kind of game

8:01

changer for us. So we

8:03

recognized the acceptance through all.

8:05

product categories. So there was

8:07

a big demand on shirts

8:09

on our jackets. the line,

8:12

our pants line and I

8:14

think it's for us amazing

8:16

to see that we are

8:18

able to to grow out

8:20

out of our DNA which

8:22

is of course the t-shirt

8:24

and but that we as

8:26

a brand we have I

8:28

think meanwhile this kind of

8:30

acceptance that also products completely

8:32

out of a t-shirt category

8:35

are really working and on

8:37

our wholesale business as well

8:39

through our D2C channels. And

8:41

this is such a great

8:43

movement and also an amazing

8:45

opportunity for the future. And

8:47

when we did our shootings,

8:49

model shootings for autumn winter,

8:51

it was crazy to see from

8:54

head to toe. It was all

8:56

nuts, not the cap. The layering

8:58

and okay, the shoes not. Maybe

9:00

we will find a nice collaboration

9:03

partner for making shoes in the

9:05

future. But yeah, other than that,

9:07

it's all our product. that makes

9:09

us very proud and thankful of

9:12

course because yeah so our customers

9:14

they are following our vision which

9:16

is amazing yeah I think you

9:18

know we've spoken with a lot

9:21

of other brands and other people

9:23

who have scaled their business and

9:25

a lot of people will start

9:27

with everything these days where it

9:30

feels like if you're a new

9:32

clothing brand you will start with

9:34

a full silhouette you'll have a

9:36

shirt you know, a pan, all

9:39

these things. And, you know, while

9:41

that is a bit of a

9:43

challenge, I think many people forget

9:45

and aren't aware of how difficult

9:48

of a challenge it is to

9:50

go from a single product to

9:52

the full collection and vision. And

9:54

I'm kind of curious what led

9:57

to some of these. ideas and

9:59

on a design perspective, like what

10:01

do you do, you know, to

10:03

kind of help create that? Basically,

10:06

like, you know, to kind of

10:08

rephrase my question, like, you know,

10:10

what led to making a full

10:12

collection and what design thoughts and

10:14

elements were you thinking of when

10:17

you were making that? Yeah, so

10:19

making a full collection, as I

10:21

mentioned before, was always like our

10:24

vision and we started with the

10:26

jerseys and we said, let's first

10:28

do those ones good. And if

10:31

we believe now we have the

10:33

capability of expanding, we're going to

10:35

go to another product category. But

10:38

to be honest, as we're

10:40

both absolute. like clothing, textile,

10:42

product, enthusiasts. It's always, I mean,

10:44

I know it sounds like so

10:46

random, but sometimes we think like,

10:48

oh, we really would love to

10:50

have a shirt like this, but

10:52

I just don't find it. So

10:54

why don't we do it on

10:56

our own? So I mean, we

10:58

design everything still, like every single

11:00

piece we design on our own,

11:02

we make the sketch, we make

11:04

the drawing, I'm making all the

11:06

measurement charts, even like all the

11:08

measurement charts, even like. the size

11:10

of the button, like everything is

11:13

still made by us. And it's

11:15

always like this heartfelt piece. So

11:17

if there's one garment more in

11:20

the collection, you know it's... It

11:22

came from our heart. It was

11:25

not like a concept, like, oh,

11:27

now we're going to do this

11:29

or that. It's more like the

11:32

pants. We have the Shino 1.

11:34

It was a pants that Peter

11:36

had. I think Peter had, I

11:38

think, designed it like at least

11:41

15 years ago and always had

11:43

it made at the Taylor shop

11:45

for himself. And then we said,

11:47

oh, why don't we put that

11:49

into the collection? Or I was

11:51

always, I had a knitted. plural I

11:54

once made on my own and so many

11:56

women asked for it so now we

11:58

had it in production so this is

12:00

more the way how it evolves.

12:03

Also we also wanted to show

12:05

that we're more than just a

12:07

t-shirt and especially after the mayor

12:10

which we're very grateful for but

12:12

we really wanted to show our

12:14

customers like you know what

12:16

we're not lazy and we're not you

12:19

know Now people know us because of

12:21

the t-shirt. No, it was our aim

12:23

to say, let's show the people that

12:25

we can do more and then we

12:28

want to provide more of

12:30

our items. So I think

12:32

that was like the very

12:35

enthusiastic idea behind this huge

12:37

new automotive collection that we

12:40

just showed. Yeah, since we

12:42

moved to explore also the

12:45

possibilities in Portugal with Portuguese

12:47

production sites, our... our possibilities

12:49

are much bigger. But maybe

12:52

let me explain it also

12:54

like this. So our business,

12:57

it was always like product

12:59

first. So it was always

13:01

everything around the product. So

13:03

it's the first years there

13:06

was no marketing strategy. There

13:08

was not this kind of

13:10

tools, maybe other business when

13:12

they started. everything in place

13:14

so we were we were

13:16

yeah kind of product nerds

13:19

and it was always about

13:21

the product and till today

13:23

before we decide for a

13:25

new product and before we

13:27

decide okay let's put it

13:29

into the line there are

13:32

a lot of how you

13:34

say a lot of thoughts

13:36

and a lot of kind

13:38

of filters the product has

13:40

to go through that at

13:42

the end we are happy

13:44

to integrate a new product

13:47

into the line and because

13:49

I think it's very essential

13:51

for us to at the

13:53

end of the day to

13:55

keep the line timeless and

13:57

classic. So I think there's

14:00

This is one of our brand

14:02

identity. I actually wouldn't call it

14:04

too classic in a sense, timeless,

14:07

yes, but we still are adapting

14:09

more contemporary silhouettes and shapes, but

14:11

I know what you mean like.

14:14

Yeah, so I think we don't

14:16

play with a lot of crazy

14:18

design elements in our line. So

14:21

every piece should be a timeless

14:23

staple in. your wardrobe, a piece

14:25

of your getting a relationship with

14:28

when you are wearing it and

14:30

over the months, over the years

14:32

and I think this kind of

14:35

relationships between the people who are

14:37

wearing products, I think for me

14:39

it's a very strong connection because

14:42

it's on your body, it's part

14:44

of your personality and so for

14:46

me a very important. kind of

14:49

expressing personality or expressing a way

14:51

of life or expressing whatever is

14:54

important for the person. Yeah, I

14:56

mean, I think, you know, at

14:58

least in terms of like the

15:01

design and the product and stuff

15:03

and in Gita, you had mentioned

15:05

earlier that you were, you know,

15:08

you're sketching these things out, you're

15:10

actually, you know, this is not

15:12

like, hey, we found a cool

15:15

vintage piece. and we just changed

15:17

the sleeves. You know, and I

15:19

want to say I don't think

15:22

that that's lazy design for people

15:24

who do that, but I think

15:26

it is a, it's almost like

15:29

this higher plane of clothing design

15:31

when you're, when it's pencil and

15:33

paper, when yes, you're solving a

15:36

problem, you're figuring out, you know,

15:38

what makes this special, but I

15:40

think the marriage of an actual

15:43

design from your head. and then

15:45

figuring out how that works its

15:48

way into the functionality of the

15:50

individual who wears it is a

15:52

really really difficult thing to do

15:55

and I think that people don't

15:57

often understand what that is. I

15:59

think there's a there's a lot

16:02

of kind of like, you know,

16:04

men's wear and women's wear assumptions

16:06

that clothing brands are just some

16:09

air quoting now like vibes, you

16:11

know, it's just a cool background

16:13

and then a sweater around a

16:16

shoulder and like that's it. But

16:18

to see how much thought and

16:20

what the process is going into

16:23

making these things, you know, and

16:25

so with that in mind, like,

16:27

you know, what were each of

16:30

your backgrounds like before you guys.

16:32

came into MERS. So we both

16:34

were, we studied fashion design on

16:37

university or at university and we

16:39

both worked as freelance fashion designers

16:42

for some brands over the years,

16:44

a lot of years. And yeah,

16:46

we gained experience and of course

16:49

if you make collections, we created

16:51

concepts, logos, full collections, we even

16:53

created concepts, logos, full collections, we

16:56

even created like... interior design items

16:58

like chinaware and shoes and jewelry

17:00

at one point and children's backpacks

17:03

I mean they're okay we were

17:05

even in active wear we did

17:07

like you know snowboarding and like

17:10

literally everything and we always enjoyed

17:12

like okay this is a new

17:14

exciting challenge like at one point

17:17

for a very well-known German brand.

17:19

We even did like marketing research

17:21

for cosmetics and how do you

17:24

say like hair? Oh wow, okay.

17:26

Like how should the bottle look

17:29

like? How should the logo look

17:31

like? What kind of smell should

17:33

it have? So it was always

17:36

like very exciting to... deep dive

17:38

into new fields and after some

17:40

years of experience we said you

17:43

know we're doing all this for

17:45

other brands which is amazing and

17:47

it never gets boring but why

17:50

don't we do it for ourselves

17:52

that would be amazing And then

17:54

this really nice coincidence, I mean,

17:57

we had that thought for I

17:59

think several years, but we always

18:01

said like, if there's a moment

18:04

that. correct or the perfect idea

18:06

would come to our mind or

18:08

something just passes our way then

18:11

we're gonna do it but we're

18:13

not gonna force it so yeah

18:15

and then at one point this

18:18

very nice coincidence happened and we

18:20

found that only at the flea

18:23

market and at that point my

18:25

husband directly looked at me and

18:27

said like I think our time

18:30

has come now we're gonna start

18:32

our own thing that's how it

18:34

started on like yeah maybe because

18:37

this was 2011 2010 and we

18:39

presented in January 2011 that the

18:41

first collection then in Berlin, Paris

18:44

and New York. Yeah, I think

18:46

when you make something for yourself

18:48

and that's personal, you know, it's

18:51

almost like you're your most difficult

18:53

critic. Absolutely, you know what, before

18:55

it, it seemed now when I

18:58

compare it, it seems so easy

19:00

because you never really think about

19:02

would I? personally stand with my

19:05

name behind it because you do

19:07

it. I mean, you do your

19:09

very best, but it's for a

19:12

different company and you try to

19:14

get their DNA into the product.

19:17

But once you have to define

19:19

your own DNA, it's like something

19:21

different. It's like, oh gosh, do

19:24

you really want the sleeve one

19:26

centimeter higher or shorter? And do

19:28

we want one button or two

19:31

buttons? And suddenly you overthink everything

19:33

like hundreds of times and it

19:35

gets really challenging and nerdy. And

19:38

even with our white t-shirt, so

19:40

I think we are already working

19:42

again of a kind of better

19:45

modified pattern, so which is then

19:47

the sixth generation. So there are

19:49

always things to be, from our

19:52

point of view, we can improve.

19:54

And so even with our best-selling

19:56

white t-shirt, we see there are

19:59

tiny details here and there we

20:01

could improve and we go for

20:03

it because we are product notes

20:06

and we love products, we love

20:08

details. Yeah, but I think with,

20:11

you know, how you all have

20:13

evolved MERS, everything is purposeful and

20:15

I'm curious what part in your

20:18

life or in your history. Did

20:20

you learn restraint? Because I think

20:22

that is a really, really rare

20:25

gift and most people who make

20:27

clothing or make, you know, or

20:29

design clothing. That's the hardest thing

20:32

to learn is what not to

20:34

put in. to something. Oh gosh

20:36

there you got me really I

20:39

mean sometimes we have so many

20:41

more items here on the rack

20:43

and then we're kind of like

20:46

forced to oh no this has

20:48

to go out I mean this

20:50

is you're just putting it on

20:53

point I mean this is the

20:55

most challenging because you always have

20:57

like these tons of ideas in

21:00

your head and you want everything

21:02

to do but at the end

21:05

we when we have the protos

21:07

we wear them we try to

21:09

fix them into our wardrobe and

21:12

we have a look and then

21:14

we see like is this really

21:16

the correct blue tone I mean

21:19

does it fit to that denim

21:21

and to that would I wear

21:23

it like that and then after

21:26

trying it the third and the

21:28

fourth time and giving it to

21:30

friends maybe like another proto and

21:33

getting their feedback at one point

21:35

you like no maybe we don't

21:37

need that blue tone or maybe

21:40

we don't need the long version

21:42

of that pullover. Maybe the short

21:44

version is just good enough at

21:47

this point in time. So then

21:49

it's kind of like the selective

21:51

period that at the end we

21:54

really go through the rack and

21:56

say, okay, these are the items

21:59

I would wear. this one there

22:01

is maybe a question mark

22:03

that's put it on hold

22:05

let's put it on hold

22:08

or postponed we that's like

22:10

that's postponed yeah and I

22:12

think it's for us it's

22:15

also very useful that we

22:17

that we set it kind

22:19

of limitations so it's we

22:22

have a lot of limitations

22:24

which are our part of

22:26

our creative work or in

22:29

terms of design process. It

22:31

starts with the fabric, the

22:33

composition of a fabric is

22:35

limited so we don't use

22:38

any. How do you say,

22:40

no polyester, nothing like this?

22:42

Then we are... Natural fibers?

22:44

Just natural fibers. In terms

22:47

of cotton, it has to

22:49

be organic cotton, which is

22:51

another limitation, because there are

22:53

a lot of nice fabrics

22:55

in the market, but they

22:58

are not available in organic.

23:00

So we have this kind

23:02

of limitations, which are for

23:04

us important to be, how

23:07

do you say? responsible? Yes,

23:09

and on the other hand

23:11

it's also a limitation which

23:13

helps us also to be

23:16

more focused because like Gita

23:18

said there are always a

23:20

lot of ideas and a

23:22

lot of thoughts and but

23:24

then when we are going

23:27

deeper into the process then

23:29

we follow our rules, our

23:31

design setups and trying to

23:33

get the best product out

23:35

of this. And so even

23:38

in Portugal there are... There's

23:40

a lot of things on

23:42

the market, also in terms

23:44

of fabrics, but every fabric

23:46

we are using in our

23:48

line, it's specially made for

23:50

us. And I think this

23:52

is also kind of important

23:54

for us. And on the

23:57

other end, this is also

23:59

a feedback. we very often hear

24:01

from our retail partners or from

24:03

our end consumers that so they

24:05

are saying like so when we

24:08

feel your product feels different, something

24:10

different to other things. And so

24:12

I think we kind of be

24:14

very happy about it that we

24:16

are creating even the fabric together

24:18

with factories in Portugal, but creating

24:21

even the fabric like we want

24:23

to have it, which makes our

24:25

product word even more complete. Yeah,

24:27

your textile development is incredible. And

24:29

I think that's, it's a very,

24:32

very difficult thing to do where,

24:34

you know, so I had ordered

24:36

a sweater from you all, like

24:38

a nice kind of jumper. And

24:40

it from, you know. from opening

24:42

up the box. It's beautiful. It

24:45

was a nice kind of heavy

24:47

navy wool, but I put it

24:49

on and I didn't realize that

24:51

there was like a gusset detail

24:53

design underneath the the armpit. There

24:56

was the way that it was

24:58

it was knit to shape my

25:00

shoulder better and it wasn't something

25:02

like a raglin sleeve like I'm

25:04

wearing now. or some sort of

25:07

just saddle stitch or some sort

25:09

of detail. Like you could see

25:11

the, not just the fabric development,

25:13

but also the pattern development on

25:15

this. And I think that's, you

25:17

know, that's like my favorite kind

25:20

of clothes are these things where

25:22

you have to kind of like

25:24

go and look again. Like, you

25:26

know, I said this on something

25:28

else, but it was like, you

25:31

know, I feel like a lot

25:33

of your products you really got

25:35

to zoom in on to see

25:37

what makes them so special and

25:39

so unique. And so unique. It

25:42

became my favorite sweater that I

25:44

wore. Oh, that's so nice. I'm

25:46

really smiling. It's so nice to

25:48

you. Yeah, no, it's great and

25:50

it fit really well, especially like

25:52

for me, you know, I tend

25:55

to wear a lot of raglin

25:57

stuff because my shoulders are... so

25:59

square. But I think also, and

26:01

this is the sweet spot that

26:03

I think you all have done

26:06

a really good job on, is

26:08

making products that are, I'll say

26:10

that they're luxury products in terms

26:12

of how they feel and how

26:14

they wear and how they last,

26:16

but also how you sell it,

26:19

how you merchandise it. It's not

26:21

so precious that you're going to

26:23

get it and never wear it.

26:25

And I say that as a

26:27

person who shops a lot. And

26:30

there are a lot of brands,

26:32

I'm curious if this has happened

26:34

with you, where you buy it

26:36

and you're like, I got it,

26:38

I'm so excited. And then you

26:41

put it in the closet and

26:43

you're never going to get it

26:45

out because, well, is today the

26:47

day that I wear this? And

26:49

you're like too scared to enjoy

26:51

the product. And so in essence,

26:54

in essence, it's useless, it's useless

26:56

because... It just sits in a

26:58

hanger and you're too scared to

27:00

enjoy it, but all of your

27:02

stuff I feel is very inviting

27:05

to use and to wear. And

27:07

I mean, that's that's super important

27:09

for me. That's it's so nice

27:11

to hear. First of all, thank

27:13

you so much for the kind

27:15

words about the jumper. and you

27:18

really really mentioned exactly what is

27:20

what our aim is like to

27:22

make products that feel very you

27:24

know very precious in terms of

27:26

the quality and the fabric but

27:29

not too precious that what you

27:31

mentioned you're afraid to wear it

27:33

but we always say at the

27:35

beginning when we went at to

27:37

the fairs and people ask us

27:40

like what is this product about?

27:42

And the only thing we always

27:44

said like yes, you're a good

27:46

companion that you know will be

27:48

with you in the hopeful very

27:50

joyful moments hopefully and yeah like

27:53

every day and this is exactly

27:55

what we get up every morning

27:57

for it to do that and

27:59

because we're so aware if you

28:01

are wearing something that you feel

28:04

comfortable in I don't know I

28:06

think it really changes your mood

28:08

and the way you present yourself

28:10

the way you feel if It

28:12

doesn't have to be something like

28:14

out, you know, very eye catching.

28:17

It's just that you feel so

28:19

comfortable that you have this kind

28:21

of radiance and it's not about

28:23

the garment. It's about the garments

28:25

making you shine somehow or making

28:28

you and supporting your... charisma or

28:30

your appearance and your personality exactly

28:32

and then maybe in the second

28:34

side people say like oh and

28:36

by the way what kind of

28:39

pullovers that you're wearing but first

28:41

they saw you and not just

28:43

the pullover or the jumper that's

28:45

that's that's what this is always

28:47

what we keep in mind so

28:49

also when we make colors or

28:52

when we create the color palette

28:54

of course we want to not

28:56

just go for white and blue

28:58

and black, but it also has

29:00

to be a color that always

29:03

looks like charming on your skin

29:05

and you know, not that you

29:07

walk around and people see you

29:09

as a pullover, not as a

29:11

person. Right. Yeah, I think that's

29:14

also kind of our limitations. So

29:16

we are more of kind of

29:18

doing kind of silent products. So

29:20

and I think the one of

29:22

the most silent products that you

29:24

can wear is a white t-shirt

29:27

and so we we are doing

29:29

very well in white t-shirts and

29:31

and silent products as guitar already

29:33

mentioned is that this is doesn't

29:35

shadow your personality so you as

29:38

a human with your individual personality

29:40

is the focus and not a

29:42

crazy product How has that been

29:44

for you all as the bear

29:46

happened? Obviously there was a huge

29:48

amount of success with the white

29:51

shirt. Some people, as a person

29:53

who's a, you know, I'll say

29:55

this, I admit my own cynicism

29:57

and jaded individual. that I got

29:59

a little upset at one point

30:02

where I was like, hey, this

30:04

is my secret. I'm wearing these shirts,

30:06

I don't want everyone else to

30:08

have them. But as a brand

30:10

owner and a designer, how does

30:12

it make you feel when everyone's

30:14

wearing your brand, but nobody knows

30:16

who's not wearing your brand in

30:18

the sense like, because there's no

30:21

logos, you know, and how did

30:23

you navigate that or did you

30:25

really care? Because I think some

30:27

people will be like, oh, well.

30:29

my brand got successful but I

30:31

want I want to see my

30:33

logo everywhere I want to be

30:35

Philip Klein you know I want

30:37

I want some loud logos everywhere

30:39

and all the fame and I

30:41

think you two are perfectly content

30:44

to just you know not not

30:46

chase that down well yeah I

30:48

mean I think every brand has

30:50

its own individual approach and everything

30:52

also I know you know is

30:54

that's perfectly fine We both are

30:57

not the persons to wear brands,

30:59

not showcasing them with big logos.

31:01

For us, it was more about

31:03

the product. It's not so much

31:05

about the brand. I mean, if

31:08

somebody is wearing our t-shirt, our

31:10

pullover and is happy with that,

31:12

that's super nice. And what we

31:14

found out is we always read

31:16

in the end-of-day report from the

31:18

stores that how do you say

31:21

it? Like word-of-mouth was a reputation.

31:23

And I think like, oh, but

31:25

that's so nice. If people talk

31:27

about it, I mean, even if

31:30

there's not a big logo,

31:32

but what better can happen,

31:35

that's so nice. People are

31:37

talking about it. It's great.

31:39

Yeah. So at the end, that's

31:42

totally, for me, it's totally fine.

31:44

Yeah, for me as well. And

31:47

I think, and I think we

31:49

both are on the same page,

31:51

we got so much fame, even

31:54

if there is no logo. and

31:56

we never were on this kind

31:59

of trip. that we need

32:01

to get kind of famous

32:03

or whatever and so it

32:05

was a very very very

32:08

lucky coincidence I mean we

32:10

could have never ever even

32:12

dreamt about that that was

32:14

like maybe also a result

32:17

of a lot of hard

32:19

work yeah yeah I mean if

32:21

you make things that are good

32:23

people will find them and you

32:26

know and like them and wear

32:28

them I designers and people who run

32:30

brands I mean it's it's the lightning

32:32

in a bottle I mean everyone wants

32:34

that sort of story where something like

32:37

that happens but I think it's really

32:39

difficult to then find out what you

32:41

do next because I think in this

32:43

case even though it wasn't a direct

32:45

correlation you launched a retail store in

32:47

New York and that is also as

32:50

a person who's worked in retail and

32:52

opened a retail store in New York

32:54

from brands that existed outside of the

32:56

United States. It's very challenging. So

32:58

I'm curious, what what led

33:01

to opening a place in

33:03

New York? Oh yeah, this is

33:05

like most of our decisions are

33:07

very, how do you say like

33:09

gut driven? So maybe sometimes if

33:12

we would be a little more

33:14

that we would write it down

33:16

like, oh, the pros and

33:18

cons, maybe the one or

33:20

the other decision we wouldn't

33:23

take as. actively like oh let's

33:25

go for that now we're always

33:27

like so passionate and we forget

33:29

like okay there are some challenges

33:31

we have to take I mean

33:34

we're not naive I mean for

33:36

that we're too long in the

33:38

business but I mean the idea

33:40

opening a store in New York

33:43

already was in our head like

33:45

really really long ago it was even

33:47

before Mertz I mean we were always

33:49

walking around Soho. even as students when

33:52

we met and we were like, oh

33:54

gosh, what about if one day we

33:56

would have a store in New York

33:58

and you don't want believe it

34:01

but I was to the

34:03

student Peter was already finalized

34:05

and we were walking through New

34:07

York and we really set an

34:09

appointment with an agent to look

34:12

at stores just to kind of

34:14

get the feeling how it feels

34:16

like and I mean we're talking

34:19

about ages ago like really long

34:21

ago. And I remember at that time,

34:23

and so there was this huge space with

34:25

these beautiful old pillars, and I think we

34:28

still have some photos, and we said, yeah,

34:30

we want to open a store in New

34:32

York, and she's like, oh, okay. And

34:34

I mean, at that time, we didn't have

34:37

any money, no own collection, like nothing. And

34:39

we went out and we went out and

34:41

we're like, gosh, this poor lady, she spent

34:43

her time with us, but we really

34:45

wanted just to have a glimpse of. How

34:48

would it feel if, and now when we

34:50

really went into the space to talk

34:52

about renting it out with the

34:54

landlord, we were looking at it

34:56

and like, remember, like a long

34:58

time ago, I don't know, it

35:00

was not Canal Street, I think

35:02

it was one of the other

35:04

streets, but it was like, as

35:06

if no time had passed since

35:08

then, it felt as if it

35:10

was the day before, and it

35:12

was like, and now it's getting

35:15

real, it's like, like, amazing. It

35:17

just let one. point to the

35:19

other, I even wrote my diploma

35:21

about opening a store in New

35:23

York. Like my master. Yeah, like

35:25

my master's, yeah. It was like

35:27

making a, at that time, I

35:29

mean. And so that's why we

35:31

also took the photos to put

35:33

it in there. And Peter was

35:35

always New York. And for him,

35:37

it was like, yeah, sure, one

35:39

day. But yeah, so it

35:41

was a kind of

35:43

coincidence in a way

35:45

was during market in

35:47

July 2023 and we

35:49

visited our friend Andrew

35:51

from liquor bocker and

35:54

he was He had

35:56

a sample sale next

35:58

to his store And

36:00

we were talking and so guitar

36:02

asked him, oh, you are doing

36:04

a sample sale. Is this a

36:06

place free? Is this available? And

36:08

he said, yes, I think so.

36:10

It's the same let lord as

36:13

ours. So I can connect you

36:15

and we said, yeah, but we

36:17

don't have so much time. We

36:19

are leaving tomorrow and here. No?

36:21

No way. I text him directly.

36:23

And so we were at the

36:25

meeting at the same day in

36:27

the afternoon. Oh my God. with

36:29

the landlord and all

36:32

these things from abroad.

36:34

So it was the

36:37

beginning of a kind

36:39

of journey in New

36:42

York doing the lease

36:45

with the landlord and

36:47

all these things from

36:50

abroad. So it was

36:52

a kind of administrative

36:55

thing. We... Sounds like

36:58

a nightmare that you're

37:00

being very polite about.

37:02

Okay, there are two

37:04

circumstances which were very

37:06

helpful, which is that

37:09

my wife and our

37:11

son, who is meanwhile

37:13

also part of our

37:15

business, and he started

37:17

when we came up

37:19

with this idea. They

37:21

have both the US

37:23

citizenship and... a social

37:26

security number which that

37:28

helps that helps that

37:30

made that yeah this circumstance

37:32

has made administration work easier

37:34

let's say it like like

37:36

this and yeah but it

37:38

was yeah I think doing

37:40

retail though also makes you

37:42

think more about how your

37:44

brand is experienced from other

37:46

people you know there's a

37:48

A lot of designers have

37:50

talked about this whenever they've

37:52

met or gotten advice from

37:54

Ralph Lauren. The advice that

37:56

he's given every, you know,

37:58

brand is... a retail store because

38:01

you really get to create that

38:03

physical world that your product

38:05

exists in for the customer before

38:07

they get to purchase it. Because

38:09

I think, you know, many people

38:11

who are buying clothes or trying

38:13

to figure something out, if you're

38:15

buying clothes at a third-party retailer,

38:17

you get their experience. And that's

38:19

okay. But when you own your

38:22

own retail store, you know, and

38:24

obviously this wasn't new for you

38:26

all because you had a store

38:28

in Europe and Germany. But I think

38:30

making a store in the US and

38:32

I say this as a person who,

38:34

you know, I worked at a store

38:36

where, you know, there was a Hong

38:38

Kong relocation. So I worked for the

38:40

armory and there was a specific vibe

38:42

that we wanted to create there and

38:44

then opening the US one. There was

38:46

a lot of stuff that we had

38:48

to change because the US customer was

38:51

different, you know, how we, how, you

38:53

know, we were now constrained by the

38:55

size of the store and what sort

38:57

of furniture we wanted to put in.

38:59

So when you were all putting

39:01

that together, what was your thought

39:03

process going into which how

39:05

you were making this new

39:07

experience in the US for

39:10

a brand that people hadn't

39:12

been that familiar with yet?

39:14

I think in terms of

39:16

store design, we were very

39:18

aligned that we want to

39:20

keep this kind of design

39:22

approach we had in our

39:24

Berlin store, which is this

39:26

kind of... time traveling through

39:28

decades from the 20s to

39:31

the 60s from Bauhaus to

39:33

mid-century. Yeah. Using vintage

39:35

furniture, using refurbished things

39:37

to be also on

39:39

this side, kind of

39:42

sustainable, which is also

39:44

very important for us.

39:46

So we were searching

39:48

for this furniture here

39:50

in Europe, together with

39:52

an amazing. partner who

39:55

they helped us serve

39:57

with finding furniture and

39:59

also putting everything into a container,

40:01

shipping it to New York and

40:03

all this. So you got the

40:06

furniture in Europe and shipped it

40:08

over? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my

40:10

gosh. We bought some Sauvondi

40:12

Bay. I mean, it's like in

40:14

Berlin, we bought every single piece on

40:16

our own, like literally even went by

40:18

car to some places to pick it

40:21

up. for the second one New York

40:23

who said like okay this was like

40:25

so time consuming we really need somebody

40:27

and by coincidence we met this couple

40:30

in the cafe we're always going in

40:32

the morning and this coffee shop and

40:34

we're like and I'm I'm always like

40:36

very chatty and I just said like

40:38

some days before to my husband like

40:41

okay if we're gonna open a store

40:43

in New York I if we want

40:45

all this really timeless classics

40:48

like the stentesh interior mid-century

40:50

furniture you know I checked

40:52

it in the US it's

40:55

like five times as expensive

40:57

as in Europe I think

40:59

we should find a way

41:01

that we search it in

41:04

source it in Europe and

41:06

then somehow ship it to

41:08

the US this sounds really

41:10

complicating and I mean, you

41:13

won't believe it. This is

41:15

like such a weird story.

41:17

He was going to, you

41:19

know, order the coffee. I was

41:21

sitting next to this couple and

41:24

I said to the guys

41:26

like, hey, what are you doing

41:28

for, you know, a living?

41:30

What's your job? And they're like,

41:33

oh, you know, we're interior

41:35

designers and architects and we're specialized

41:37

in shipping fifth century stuff

41:39

around the world. And I'm like,

41:41

what? And we're like, yeah, yeah,

41:44

we're just preparing a concert here.

41:46

We're preparing a container for

41:48

Mexico because we're just, you

41:50

know, making the interior design for

41:52

a house in Mexico City. And I'm

41:54

like, so if we want to open

41:56

a store in the New York, would

41:58

you help us? Yeah, so we sent

42:01

together and we did it. And

42:03

like actually those guys, they made

42:05

it everything happened. They sourced, they

42:08

even went to Copenhagen and because

42:10

we have this Paul Cadavio's wall

42:12

in our store. Yeah. And it's

42:15

a very seldom fine. So they

42:17

went to Copenhagen to find that

42:19

one and like all the lounge

42:21

chairs and everything. and then they

42:23

wrapped it and they put it in

42:26

they had to weigh everything they had

42:28

to put it in the container so

42:30

that was really an adventure and they

42:32

went with us to New York and

42:34

help us set up the store

42:36

and they were yeah so we

42:39

all together unloaded the container which

42:41

was for a couple of minutes

42:43

in front of our store in

42:45

Canal Street oh my god so

42:47

we a lot of Cars, how

42:49

do you say, when they hold

42:51

the horse? Yeah, with this huge

42:54

container on the street. Let's get

42:56

it out of the container. And

42:58

yeah, so this was another kind

43:00

of... kind of maybe you will

43:02

maybe it's from sent from the

43:04

universe maybe it's a coincidence

43:06

however you will see it

43:09

so for us it's more

43:11

than just a coincidence so

43:13

i think finding this place

43:15

and finding people which are

43:17

on an amazing support side

43:19

to make things happen I

43:22

think there are always a

43:24

lot of things that happens

43:26

when you, and that's our

43:28

belief when you follow your

43:30

gut feeling and not just

43:32

sitting and writing pro and

43:34

cons and doing a business

43:37

plan for a New York

43:39

store. It's then I think

43:41

then you're on the right

43:43

path and so after one

43:45

year we we can say.

43:47

We are on the right

43:50

path. It was a super

43:52

year. We learned so much.

43:54

We learned the differences between

43:56

Berlin customers and New York

43:58

customers. Oh yeah. lot of

44:00

differences products that we are

44:02

selling well in Berlin they

44:05

are not selling at all

44:07

in New York and so

44:09

we yeah we learned a

44:11

lot and we are more

44:13

than happy that we followed

44:15

our feeling and opened this

44:17

store in New York which

44:19

also connects us more with

44:21

the city and the customers

44:23

I mean at the beginning for

44:26

weeks we were also on the

44:28

floor working you know Yeah, yeah,

44:30

we also do that here in

44:32

Berlin. So this is because we

44:34

always go to the fair still,

44:37

like the two of us and

44:39

talk to the retailers and get

44:41

their feedback, which I think is

44:43

absolutely valuable to get like the

44:45

direct feedback. But as you mentioned,

44:48

being in the floor in the

44:50

store working as a sales associate

44:52

in this case. It gives so

44:54

much insight and the collection has

44:56

really evolved, especially since we were

44:59

in New York because we had

45:01

also like so many good inspirational

45:03

ideas from customers. They said, you

45:05

know, I'm looking for a pullover

45:08

with a collar like this. And

45:10

I was like, I always have

45:12

my little notebook candy and like

45:14

directly, I'm like, okay, how do

45:16

you envision this? What? And if

45:19

a second and maybe a third

45:21

person comes and asks for that,

45:23

I mean, I would be stupid not

45:25

to get this into my next

45:27

concept, you know, and because this

45:29

is what people are looking for

45:31

and that what they ask for

45:34

and so many nice pieces have

45:36

been created in this way. But I

45:38

think that says a lot about your

45:40

ego too to call that out because

45:42

I think there are different types of

45:45

designers who view I am the expert

45:47

and you are just going to buy

45:49

what I make and it's because my

45:51

stuff is so good and okay that

45:53

may work for some people and you

45:56

know and obviously that doesn't always last

45:58

but I think for you you know

46:00

and this is the thing that

46:02

I've I like so much admire

46:04

so much about about Mers is

46:06

the fact that yes there is

46:09

specific design and there's stuff that's

46:11

within conviction and you can see

46:13

how it ties back to you

46:15

all But I mean, I'm not

46:17

going to lie, this is news

46:19

to me that you're literally talking

46:21

to customers at the store and

46:23

getting their input in some of

46:25

these designs. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, because

46:28

we can only be as good

46:30

as the customers like it and

46:32

buy it. I mean, we can

46:34

do the craziest design, but if

46:36

nobody's going to buy it, then

46:38

it's a hobby. And it's going

46:40

to cost us a lot of...

46:42

Then we have to find an

46:45

investor who is willing to support

46:47

that financially. But we really want

46:49

to sell our products because we

46:51

want to see our products being

46:53

worn in nature, you know, like

46:55

know how to say like in

46:57

real, like people. And then I

46:59

think... No, for me it's always

47:02

like the nicest to talk to

47:04

the people and ask them and

47:06

if they say, you know, I'm

47:08

looking for a brown tone, I'm

47:10

asking, oh, what kind of brown?

47:12

More like a reddish brown or

47:14

yellow or more dark or more

47:16

chocolate. So even like the sales

47:19

staff, I always asked them to

47:21

write me down if they have

47:23

the sales associate. Yeah, if they

47:25

have ideas, if they got feedback

47:27

from the customers when I was

47:29

not there on the floor. And

47:31

as mentioned before, I mean, a

47:33

lot of really nice products have

47:36

been created through this way because

47:38

yeah. So we always said like

47:40

the end consumer is paying every

47:42

bill in a way because even

47:44

if you are selling through retail.

47:46

At the end of the day

47:48

the end consumer is paying the

47:50

bill so you can sell it

47:52

once maybe twice to a retail

47:55

store but when the end consumer

47:57

doesn't buy it in the retail

47:59

store then the business doesn't work

48:01

and so at the end it

48:03

It's all about the end consumer

48:05

and so talking to them and

48:07

open. to adapt ideas or whatever

48:09

thoughts they have into our collection.

48:12

Yeah, yeah. People already get and

48:14

understand your brand, but I think

48:16

a lot of times the joy

48:18

of that understanding comes from learning

48:20

about who's behind that brand. And

48:22

I think it gives people a

48:24

deeper sense of connection, because now,

48:26

and I think this is something

48:29

that people want to know more

48:31

about is... I think people are

48:33

connecting less and less with brands

48:35

and more and more with designers,

48:37

right? You know, let's take Gucci

48:39

for an example. For a long

48:41

time, it wasn't Gucci that people

48:43

were buying. It was, you know,

48:46

Alessandro McHale, right? Like, it was

48:48

him. And I think many of

48:50

these larger brands have fought tooth

48:52

and nail to find a way

48:54

to look smaller. And I think

48:56

one of the great advantages that

48:58

you all have too is that

49:00

you are a... founder design and

49:02

lead brand. And so when you

49:05

get to understand the people that

49:07

are actually putting their own blood,

49:09

sweat, and tears into the product,

49:11

it becomes something that is, you

49:13

know, really appreciated and really enjoyed.

49:15

And I mean, I think for

49:17

me, that's my favorite thing about

49:19

trying to do these shows is

49:22

to really make that human connection.

49:24

Because at the end of the

49:26

day, you know, some of these

49:28

really, really, really large luxury brands

49:30

were like, yeah, but like there's

49:32

no soul. Like it's thick. thick

49:34

advertising and brand marketing and someone

49:36

else trying to make up a

49:39

story for you, but you know,

49:41

and that was why I got

49:43

so excited when you started talking

49:45

about how some of these products

49:47

are just based off of feedback.

49:49

I just think that's, it's kind

49:51

of unheard of. I mean, you're

49:53

not getting that as much as

49:56

you used to back in the

49:58

day, right? If you had an

50:00

old, an old habitashry somewhere and

50:02

someone's giving you feedback on the

50:04

design, I mean, that's, that's, that's,

50:06

that's perfect. But over time, it

50:08

became this sort of like dictated

50:10

relationship into which the brand says,

50:12

well, this is what I'm making

50:15

and this is what you're going

50:17

to buy. And I think now

50:19

there's this beautiful marriage between, yeah,

50:21

but I'm coming to Mertz because

50:23

I want your taste. I want

50:25

your input. Oh, okay, you're wearing

50:27

the chinos this way. They're a

50:29

little bit baggier. They're a little

50:32

bit lower rise. Or, you know,

50:34

I noticed how you all have

50:36

this kind of chorekote design with

50:38

this. I would have never put

50:40

that in my wardrobe. But because

50:42

I trust you and because I'm

50:44

learning about you, I'm now incorporating

50:46

that. And I think that's a

50:49

really interesting product in, you know,

50:51

customer journey that many of these

50:53

brands are now becoming more okay

50:55

with. So yeah, and it makes

50:57

fun to be honest. I think

50:59

it's so enjoyable to talk to

51:01

the customers and get their ideas.

51:03

I mean, like... people are so

51:06

creative and they have really like

51:08

a sense of what they would

51:10

love to wear and yes it's

51:12

like a give and take I

51:14

mean especially as our brand is

51:16

mainly about fabrics and the haptics

51:18

and I mean you know now

51:20

people for instance they can come

51:23

to the store and they can

51:25

touch all the different fabrics before

51:27

we got because we are still

51:29

also in the customer service team.

51:31

I mean, we don't write the

51:33

emails anymore. We have a great

51:35

team, but every week we're gonna

51:37

have a meeting and we're asking

51:39

like, what's the feedback of our

51:42

customers? So we're very into that.

51:44

And we had a lot of

51:46

requests from you as customers as

51:48

well that they said like, oh

51:50

yeah, I would really love to

51:52

feel more of your fabrics. And

51:54

as retailers, I mean, they make

51:56

their selection, which is fine. But

51:59

we said, like, yeah, that's really

52:01

so true. I mean, nobody has

52:03

the chance unless they're traveling to

52:05

Berlin and to our store here

52:07

to have really the opportunity to

52:09

feel all the fabrics of the

52:11

collection. And that was also one

52:13

of the main advantages or what

52:16

we've proposed that we said, let's

52:18

make that open that store in

52:20

the US because then we can

52:22

say, you know, if you're once

52:24

in New York, maybe you can

52:26

just stop by and have a

52:28

look at the fabrics and touch

52:30

them and get like really an

52:33

idea what it's all about. And

52:35

this is so nice to see

52:37

and hear. when we're in the

52:39

store that people really do that

52:41

they say like you know I

52:43

came from Chicago and I was

52:45

really so curious about your fabric

52:47

so I stopped here to touch

52:49

them and I'm like wow that's

52:52

so nice so that was really

52:54

like one of the main initial

52:56

ideas as well and if they

52:58

take the chance and opportunity to

53:00

do that, then we're very happy

53:02

about that. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

53:04

and I think that's that stuff

53:06

that every brand that sells digitally

53:09

these days, I mean, that's always

53:11

the biggest hurdle. And and it's

53:13

worked the other way around in

53:15

the sense that like I ordered

53:17

a shirt the other day from

53:19

a brand and I was really

53:21

excited about it and I saw

53:23

it online. I will admit I

53:26

purchased it pretty late at night,

53:28

so maybe I was a little

53:30

foggy, but I get this piece.

53:32

and it finally comes in and

53:34

I open up the box and

53:36

I will say you know the

53:38

box was very tightly packaged but

53:40

when I opened it I was

53:43

like well what the hell is

53:45

this there's just like a piece

53:47

of paper in there some receipt

53:49

I was like oh yeah I

53:51

guess I got this and I

53:53

opened it up and I hold

53:55

up the shirt and I'm like

53:57

oh my god this fabric is

54:00

awful it's really scratchy and and

54:02

here's the other thing the color

54:04

is not the color that I

54:06

thought And I put it on

54:08

and my wife was like, ooh.

54:10

She's like, I don't think that

54:12

was made for your skin tone.

54:14

And I was like, oh wow,

54:16

what a dagger. I was like,

54:19

okay. She's like, so what are

54:21

you going to do? Are you

54:23

going to keep that? And I

54:25

was like, well, I mean, I

54:27

got it. I kind of assumed

54:29

it would fit with this and

54:31

this. And she's like, yeah, I

54:33

don't know, I'd get rid of

54:36

it. And I was so I

54:38

was so mad and I feel

54:40

like that's a thing where you

54:42

know that I think that happens

54:44

more often than people realize when

54:46

you're just shopping online like you

54:48

it's that's why physical retail is

54:50

so so important where you can

54:53

go in you can touch it

54:55

you can see the fabrics in

54:57

real life you can see what

54:59

the color looks like on you

55:01

you know and it's funny because

55:03

this sounds so foreign to me

55:05

right like imagine and if you

55:07

know someone thirty years ago heard

55:10

what i'm saying right now they'd

55:12

be like yeah everything is is

55:14

physical retail just go to you

55:16

know a department store it's like

55:18

it's very rare that happens Yeah,

55:20

that's true, yeah. But we have

55:22

to admit, it's sometimes really a

55:24

challenge to get the color online,

55:26

like it is in Rio, how

55:29

you say, because especially as we

55:31

have like this different shades of

55:33

white tones and a different shade

55:35

of grayish or this tope that's

55:37

a little darker. Gosh, sometimes we're

55:39

sitting and editing the photos like

55:41

crazy and then we're looking on

55:43

different monitors and like, oh no,

55:46

on that screen it looks far

55:48

to gray and look, oh here

55:50

it's almost like a pink tone

55:52

and we have to. So it's

55:54

sometimes really challenging and we put

55:56

a lot of effort into that

55:58

as well to get. from our

56:00

side the best possible result, but

56:03

I know there's still so much

56:05

more space for improvement, but we

56:07

have to do it step by

56:09

step. I mean, we're not like

56:11

a huge cooperation, and we're working,

56:13

and we're doing that full of

56:15

fashion, but yeah, there's... Yeah, I

56:17

mean, I tell people this now,

56:20

too, where it's like, if you're

56:22

shopping, especially if you're shopping late

56:24

at night, and I didn't say

56:26

that it's like I was under

56:28

the influence, late at night because...

56:30

Everyone's phones now change colors at

56:32

night. And so the the color

56:34

that I'm viewing on the screen

56:36

because I have you know night

56:39

shift or whatever mode it is

56:41

on my iPhone. It's very there's

56:43

much, you know, it's not so

56:45

cool, it's very warm, and I

56:47

get it because it's protecting the

56:49

blue light and stuff from my

56:51

face, but that's a big deal

56:53

when you're buying a blue shirt

56:56

that is gray, you know. I

56:58

was like, oh, whoops. But anyway,

57:00

I digress. I wanted to chat

57:02

about both of your personal style

57:04

and how it kind of informs

57:06

the design. I mean, we're sitting

57:08

here, we're having this chat. You're

57:10

too style, I mean, we're two

57:13

different color pallets here. Peter in

57:15

the mostly all black and gets

57:17

in the cream. As, you know,

57:19

you all are putting yourself together

57:21

every morning or, you know, when

57:23

you first got into fashion, who

57:25

are the people or the things

57:27

that you were that were inspiring

57:30

to you? So for me it

57:32

was. during my teenager time I

57:34

was crazy about fashion. So at

57:36

that time it was fijerucci, it

57:38

was playful, it was colorful, it

57:40

was crazy. And when I started

57:42

with fashion design for my personal

57:44

tastes, my personal wardrobe, it completely

57:47

changed into a uniform. At that

57:49

time it was an original Levi's

57:51

big E, a white t-shirt, engineer

57:53

boots, leather jacket, and some kind

57:55

of shorts, woven shorts. At one

57:57

point, Chambres. Sure, then Levi started

57:59

with LVC with the Levi Winter,

58:01

which was, which helped me to

58:03

keep my, keep my, um, uniform

58:06

on a lower cost basis because

58:08

original Big Easter it was. Yeah,

58:10

that's quite, that's quite the flex

58:12

to wear big E these days.

58:14

Yeah. It was a very, yeah.

58:16

You know, I have to say

58:18

when we got, um, the first

58:20

time and it was very clear

58:23

that we're gonna stay together and

58:25

Mary. I think it was even

58:27

the very first evening you said,

58:29

you know, I just have to

58:31

tell you something very important. Never

58:33

ever wash my... denim. I'm like,

58:35

what? I did, I told my

58:37

friend, gosh, that's weird. Oh, what

58:40

did you tell me? I did

58:42

know anything about big ease and

58:44

red salvage and raw denim. And

58:46

I'm like, what did you just

58:48

say? And he's like, just don't

58:50

wash anything from my clothes. And

58:52

I'm like, okay, I can live

58:54

with that. That's funny. I do

58:57

all the laundry at our home.

58:59

you know certain things I want

59:01

to hang dry also certain times

59:03

I'm like you know what I

59:05

want to I want to put

59:07

that in the dryer but you

59:09

know what actually I'm gonna dry

59:11

this outside like I I am

59:13

very specific in how I want

59:16

my clothes going to say. I

59:18

can go with that. It's very

59:20

easy. So and this kind of

59:22

style was my uniform for years

59:24

and then with the beginning of

59:26

this heritage trend so I was

59:28

I had the feeling that's maybe

59:30

not the right uniform anymore for

59:33

my for me as personal and

59:35

at that time I developed this

59:37

Shino, which is now our Shino01,

59:39

and I ordered fabric in Japan

59:41

and brought the fabric to a...

59:43

tailor shop in Berlin. So this

59:45

was the change from Levi's vintage

59:47

big E white t-shirt from Bray's

59:50

shirt into all black. And so

59:52

now I'm I'm the black swan.

59:54

That's my soil room in the

59:56

company. I like it. No, I

59:58

mean, it looks great. Yeah. So

1:00:00

it keeps still my life simple

1:00:02

in terms of having a uniform

1:00:04

and enough so many different. relax

1:00:07

in my wardrobe and now I'm

1:00:09

wearing one of our new developments,

1:00:11

the thermal long sleeve for autumn

1:00:13

winter 25, which guitar created and

1:00:15

it's one of my favorite. new

1:00:17

black pieces in my wardrobe. With

1:00:19

a lot of structure, yes. Good.

1:00:21

What about you? When I was

1:00:23

a student, my go-to designer at

1:00:26

that time was Jill Sundar. So

1:00:28

that was like really what I

1:00:30

was always looking at. Like, oh

1:00:32

gosh, that's amazing. And also Ralph

1:00:34

Lauren, but more in a sense.

1:00:36

fired me so much like this

1:00:38

building up a brand like he

1:00:40

did I don't know it was

1:00:43

always yes so as I couldn't

1:00:45

afford to send her and even

1:00:47

not a Ralph Lauren at that

1:00:49

time so most of my items

1:00:51

I designed on my own and

1:00:53

so it and during you know

1:00:55

my studies so that was quite

1:00:57

easy actually so you're just you're

1:01:00

making your own clothes yeah Yeah,

1:01:02

making. Okay. So we studied that

1:01:04

like a fashion design pattern making,

1:01:06

sewing, like everything. So actually I

1:01:08

only wore my own design clothes

1:01:10

and some denim or that was

1:01:12

pretty cool. So that was quite

1:01:14

easy. Actually, to be honest, it

1:01:17

didn't look so much different than

1:01:19

the things that we're doing today.

1:01:21

I mean, if I would, I

1:01:23

still have some old stuff. I

1:01:25

think in one of our big

1:01:27

boxes, I think it's very, it's

1:01:29

very alike. And yeah, also. Getta

1:01:31

likes breaking this feminine with masculine

1:01:34

pieces. She's a big fan of

1:01:36

the M65 military jacket. So, and

1:01:38

I think this very nice break,

1:01:40

so this feminine with this. Yeah,

1:01:42

very intricate and... Yeah, and we're,

1:01:44

I mean, we're very lucky because

1:01:46

we used to do design for

1:01:48

Alpha and... for over 11 years.

1:01:50

So the M65 we have like

1:01:53

almost the whole wardrobe just full

1:01:55

of industry jackets. So like military

1:01:57

and yeah I really like that

1:01:59

and it's quite simple so it

1:02:01

just go to my closet in

1:02:03

the morning and I it's more

1:02:05

like oh actually this pullover I

1:02:07

think I have five times in

1:02:10

that color and five times in

1:02:12

a black so it's very easy

1:02:14

I just take it one of

1:02:16

our black pants and I'm done

1:02:18

so okay honest question how so

1:02:20

with what you said how quickly

1:02:22

does it how long does it

1:02:24

take for you to get dressed

1:02:27

in the morning two minutes damn

1:02:29

it okay Peter Ew? Max, oh

1:02:31

he takes longer. So me it

1:02:33

takes longer because I'm literally ironing

1:02:35

my she know every morning? Really?

1:02:37

Every morning? Wow, okay. Respect. That

1:02:39

takes of course longer. Yeah I

1:02:41

I really I have different stages

1:02:44

now into which how I get

1:02:46

dressed in the morning because I

1:02:48

have to get up a little

1:02:50

bit earlier to get the kids

1:02:52

out the door and make sure

1:02:54

they're all at school and everyone's

1:02:56

got their snacks and their water

1:02:58

bottles and all that and that's

1:03:00

usually phase one of getting dressed

1:03:03

and also because I work from

1:03:05

home I'm like well maybe I'll

1:03:07

go to the gym after I

1:03:09

drop them off you know and

1:03:11

then After that, then I really

1:03:13

get dressed. And then it's like,

1:03:15

okay, the gym's done, the drop

1:03:17

off's done. Now I really want

1:03:20

to put a fit together. And

1:03:22

I think it's, I recognize, you

1:03:24

know, so my wife, she doesn't

1:03:26

do any of that. And she

1:03:28

always looks great. She just grabs,

1:03:30

you know, a shirt. jeans, whatever.

1:03:32

And I'm really struggling to try

1:03:34

to, like, how could I have

1:03:37

one, one, like, just getting dressed,

1:03:39

and that's my thing for the

1:03:41

day. And so I admire anyone

1:03:43

who's able to just grab something

1:03:45

and go. But I, yeah, I

1:03:47

just have too many different phases

1:03:49

and getting dressed. And even now,

1:03:51

we're going to Copenhagen tomorrow. Oh,

1:03:54

nice. Yeah. Thanks, it's gonna be

1:03:56

fun. Yeah. And I was like,

1:03:58

okay, I don't want to check

1:04:00

anything. So, you know, I'm laying

1:04:02

my clothes out on the floor,

1:04:04

I'm trying to figure out what's

1:04:06

gonna fit with what, you know,

1:04:08

and I was like, oh, okay,

1:04:10

should I bring four pairs of

1:04:13

pants? I'm gonna be there a

1:04:15

week? Do I'm a nut case?

1:04:17

And even then, I mean, I've

1:04:19

been in clothing for 15 years

1:04:21

now. I still can't unlock. the

1:04:23

confidence of just getting dressed in

1:04:25

the morning. But I think that's

1:04:27

also nice. I mean, I know

1:04:30

a lot of people who do

1:04:32

that and that's beautiful. I think

1:04:34

I would put more effort into

1:04:36

it if I would have more

1:04:38

time. But as we're working so

1:04:40

much, I just like, oh gosh,

1:04:42

we just have to go out.

1:04:44

But actually, as I really enjoy

1:04:47

these styles, I don't really think

1:04:49

about it. And just... put it

1:04:51

on and sometimes the only thing

1:04:53

is the weather can be very

1:04:55

unpredictable here in Berlin so you

1:04:57

go out in the morning and

1:04:59

maybe the sun is even coming

1:05:01

out and you think oh it's

1:05:04

gonna be warmer day so I

1:05:06

put on a little lighter sweatshirt

1:05:08

or pull over and then in

1:05:10

the evening it's so cold and

1:05:12

I always take some protos like

1:05:14

randomly and sometimes it's like so

1:05:16

weird they still have like this

1:05:18

huge stickers where I wrote like

1:05:21

100 like first proto the sleeves

1:05:23

are too tight and the sleeve

1:05:25

is too long and then I

1:05:27

forget that it's this huge sticker

1:05:29

on the back and sometimes like

1:05:31

on our way home we say

1:05:33

oh let's go for a little

1:05:35

like fo soup or something before

1:05:37

we have to cook it like

1:05:40

okay and I'm sitting down and

1:05:42

then maybe At one point, I

1:05:44

go to the stand up and

1:05:46

go somewhere and then my husband's

1:05:48

like, gosh, you still have the

1:05:50

sticker on the back, all the

1:05:52

time. And I'm like, oh, I

1:05:54

got it. And people are looking

1:05:57

at me. Oh. That's great. They

1:05:59

had some really funny things. So

1:06:01

I taxed hanging out. It happens

1:06:03

quite often when you are buying

1:06:05

something new, then you are wearing

1:06:07

it and you forgot to remove

1:06:09

the hang tag. So the hang

1:06:11

tag is somewhere hanging and around.

1:06:14

I had a trench coat for

1:06:16

a year that had the hang

1:06:18

tag in it. And every time

1:06:20

I would put it on, I'd

1:06:22

be like, oh, I was like,

1:06:24

I gotta take the tag off.

1:06:26

But then when I took the

1:06:28

jacket off, I'd be like, yeah,

1:06:31

I'll just deal with it later.

1:06:33

For a whole year, just this

1:06:35

hang tag, just hanging on the

1:06:37

inside. I was so funny, so

1:06:39

funny. Before we wrap, I want

1:06:41

to talk about some other stuff.

1:06:43

The recent collection you did is

1:06:45

based off of Ventura Highway by

1:06:47

America, but I'm curious how much

1:06:50

music or what bands kind of

1:06:52

fit into the Merce World. Oh,

1:06:54

so really like, I really like

1:06:56

the California 70s music, but that's

1:06:58

because I was born in the

1:07:00

US because my dad was an

1:07:02

engineer at IBM and he was,

1:07:04

you know, at Silicon Valley at

1:07:07

that time. So I spent my

1:07:09

childhood in California and my mom,

1:07:11

she always used to hear this

1:07:13

kind of music. So I really

1:07:15

got a very strong connection. It's

1:07:17

a really nice memory that I

1:07:19

have. So I like that music.

1:07:21

Like the Laurel Canyon. 1970 stuff?

1:07:24

Is that like a CSN or

1:07:26

Joanie Mitchell or? Yeah, like America

1:07:28

or the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, like

1:07:30

these old things. Yeah. So what

1:07:32

my mom used to hear at

1:07:34

that time, I don't know. It's

1:07:36

like, I really like that. And,

1:07:38

but also a lot like modern

1:07:41

music, but I'm really crazy. You

1:07:43

can ask Nico, our son-in-law, who's

1:07:45

also in the company. He's always

1:07:47

already making fun of me. because

1:07:49

I always try to tag like

1:07:51

Shazam everywhere. And if people are

1:07:53

talking, it's like really difficult to

1:07:55

get it. Be quiet. I'm trying

1:07:57

to get this song. I always

1:08:00

go to the speakers and hold

1:08:02

up my hand like, ah. And

1:08:04

he's like, oh gosh, what are

1:08:06

you doing in the restaurants? But

1:08:08

I'm always saying. tagging, like crazy.

1:08:10

How do you say like tagging

1:08:12

in Germany? We say it like

1:08:14

that, like the music. So I

1:08:17

have a lot of playlists, but

1:08:19

I cannot really tell you what

1:08:21

kind of music. It is just

1:08:23

like everything. Yeah, I think it's

1:08:25

also about keeping the connection to

1:08:27

the place you were. Shazam something

1:08:29

at a very special place and

1:08:31

when you hear it a month,

1:08:34

a couple of months later, then

1:08:36

you are again connected in a

1:08:38

way. And so for me, I'm

1:08:40

more like on the modern jazz

1:08:42

side. Oh, yeah, East Coast and

1:08:44

John Cauldron, Miles Davis, especially their

1:08:46

live acts, because of what I

1:08:48

really like when all the musicians

1:08:51

are doing their kind of solo.

1:08:53

especially on live concerts I really

1:08:55

like like this which is yeah

1:08:57

so my kind of favorite music

1:08:59

and we I really know we

1:09:01

both but I really enjoyed this

1:09:03

TV show, Bosch, this LA Detective,

1:09:05

because his amazing sound system with

1:09:08

the Macintosh amplifier and always playing

1:09:10

jazz. So I was always with

1:09:12

my fazam, close to the TV

1:09:14

to get some new inspiration for

1:09:16

my jazz music. And luckily my

1:09:18

father-in-law, he's also, or maybe he

1:09:20

was, more a huge chess, and

1:09:22

to the Aztec, and during his

1:09:24

time in the US, it was

1:09:27

the change from... mono into stereo.

1:09:29

Oh yeah. He bought so many

1:09:31

mono records for just one dollar

1:09:33

or less and he had a

1:09:35

huge, a couple of hundred jazz

1:09:37

records at his home and I

1:09:39

already have a couple of them

1:09:41

and so on. Some hundred already,

1:09:44

but we don't have the space

1:09:46

for all. I mean, he has

1:09:48

so many. So I'm welcome every

1:09:50

day to pick up more, but.

1:09:52

I feel like the stereo is

1:09:54

the final frontier of real, real

1:09:56

adulthood because for me, you know,

1:09:58

we, I worked in the music

1:10:01

industry for a long time and

1:10:03

so I was getting tons of

1:10:05

records, but we were, had this

1:10:07

tiny apartment in Brooklyn, and when

1:10:09

my wife and I had gotten

1:10:11

married, I had just a wall.

1:10:13

a vinyl. And she's like, yeah,

1:10:15

you're not going to keep that.

1:10:18

And so much of it I

1:10:20

just gave away. Because I was

1:10:22

like, oh, I'm just going to

1:10:24

go digital. I'm just going to

1:10:26

use Spotify or whatever. And now

1:10:28

it's one of my biggest regrets.

1:10:30

And so I'm trying to find

1:10:32

a way to slowly build back

1:10:34

the library of music that I

1:10:37

had. And especially create like a

1:10:39

nice stereo system at home. And

1:10:41

I want to sit in a

1:10:43

little sweet spot and just listen

1:10:45

to music. But that is, it's

1:10:47

funny you'd mention jazz, because I

1:10:49

feel like, you know, for a

1:10:51

lot of people, this like level

1:10:54

of enlightenment or some sort of

1:10:56

like musical, you know, enjoyment ends

1:10:58

up, you end up finding jazz

1:11:00

as the most like true form

1:11:02

because it's completely impulsive, but it

1:11:04

has to work within this frame.

1:11:06

And so I very much envy

1:11:08

anyone who's got like a killer,

1:11:11

killer stereo setup. Yeah. What kind

1:11:13

of music is your favorite? Well

1:11:15

it's funny you mention it so

1:11:17

I'm getting my kids into the

1:11:19

Beatles. But I also feel like

1:11:21

at times it's like for me

1:11:23

it's a complete disservice. to music

1:11:25

to only stay with one specific

1:11:28

time frame in one era and

1:11:30

never venture outside of it. So

1:11:32

I'm always trying to challenge myself

1:11:34

to, you know, what new music

1:11:36

is out there, you know, what

1:11:38

are people doing in terms of

1:11:40

shaping the culture and the technology

1:11:42

that they're using. So I also

1:11:45

kind of view, you know, view

1:11:47

it as a almost like a

1:11:49

responsible thing I need to do

1:11:51

to just be aware of other.

1:11:53

types of music and bands. But

1:11:55

it's so interesting that you say

1:11:57

that with the responsibility to also

1:11:59

open up for more modern things

1:12:01

this is exactly what we also

1:12:04

try to do with the collection.

1:12:06

I mean we have our heritage

1:12:08

with the originals which are very,

1:12:10

I mean they're originally made, they're

1:12:12

made on these really old loop

1:12:14

wheelers and of course the styles

1:12:16

are very vintage inspired. I mean

1:12:18

we have the entire show. with

1:12:21

hundreds of old pieces because you

1:12:23

mentioned it at the beginning, like

1:12:25

taking a vintage piece. I mean,

1:12:27

we also have vintage pieces there

1:12:29

where we take a lot of

1:12:31

inspiration from. But also, this is

1:12:33

the nice thing with Portugal because

1:12:35

in Portugal, we have this very

1:12:38

modern possibilities of making textiles. And

1:12:40

we, so we always try to,

1:12:42

especially with the Portuguese made products.

1:12:44

bring in more this kind of

1:12:46

contemporary style and without losing our

1:12:48

DNA without being not aware of

1:12:50

our core of the brand, but

1:12:52

still I think I mean for

1:12:55

we have some oversized shirts meanwhile

1:12:57

and it doesn't always have to

1:12:59

look like vintage or heritage. No,

1:13:01

there we're playing with colors like

1:13:03

you know dusted pink for rosewood

1:13:05

colored cardigan and and this This

1:13:07

is I think what makes, what's

1:13:09

it all about, to not get

1:13:11

stuck in a time and say,

1:13:14

oh, the good old times. We,

1:13:16

in terms of design, this is

1:13:18

our daily approach and also the

1:13:20

way how we produce it. Yes,

1:13:22

we produce on the old loop

1:13:24

wheeler, but on the other hand,

1:13:26

we're looking for very sustainable ways

1:13:28

and methods, which is very important

1:13:31

for us. So we say, okay,

1:13:33

we look, we cherish what was

1:13:35

in the past. We are absolutely

1:13:37

aware of our responsibility, what is

1:13:39

to come in the future. And

1:13:41

this is why we get up

1:13:43

every morning because we want to

1:13:45

put it into action in our

1:13:48

now and here. the present. So

1:13:50

at one you could call it

1:13:52

like combining time and decades and

1:13:54

hopefully being part of yeah also

1:13:56

creating like a good future because

1:13:58

I mean also textiles can be

1:14:00

can be doesn't have to but

1:14:02

harmful for the environment. Absolutely. Yeah,

1:14:05

unfortunately. So for example we really

1:14:07

wanted to do like a dip

1:14:09

dye. for summer. But when we

1:14:11

always ask like how's the process,

1:14:13

how's it made when they told

1:14:15

us that it's a lot of

1:14:17

chemicals they have to use and

1:14:19

it's not a very sustainable way

1:14:21

of dying, although we would have

1:14:24

I would have really loved to

1:14:26

have it in the line, it's

1:14:28

not an option for us. We

1:14:30

say, okay, we're not going to

1:14:32

do dip dye. That's the way

1:14:34

it is. It's not only about

1:14:36

using sustainable fabrics, like, okay, we're

1:14:38

using organic cotton, or okay, we're

1:14:41

just using natural fibers. We say

1:14:43

every piece not bought is actually

1:14:45

the most sustainable. So if you

1:14:47

have some pieces that you really

1:14:49

like, maybe you don't have to

1:14:51

go tomorrow and buy a new

1:14:53

one, because actually the one you

1:14:55

bought yesterday doesn't really satisfy you,

1:14:58

so you're going to go tomorrow

1:15:00

and buy another one. So it's

1:15:02

not that we don't want our

1:15:04

customers to buy no, but on

1:15:06

the other hand, we really want

1:15:08

them to enjoy their garments the

1:15:10

longest possible time. And yeah, maybe

1:15:12

it's then that they say, you

1:15:15

know what, I really like this

1:15:17

pullover or jumper. I don't really

1:15:19

have to buy a new one

1:15:21

now. really happy and content with

1:15:23

that one. I mean this is

1:15:25

also why we try to make

1:15:27

like very thoughtful and timeless design.

1:15:29

Yeah, I mean that way it

1:15:32

lasts and I think that's it's

1:15:34

great to hear that from a

1:15:36

brand. You know I mean there's

1:15:38

um I was in Tokyo a

1:15:40

few weeks ago and I was

1:15:42

talking with a brand and he

1:15:44

was like yeah a lot of

1:15:46

people have been trying to get

1:15:48

our stuff and and and he

1:15:51

said I don't I'm not very

1:15:53

comfortable with it. I don't like

1:15:55

it. And so in the store,

1:15:57

we're actually telling people who have

1:15:59

purchased a lot before maybe to

1:16:01

come back next year. And I'm

1:16:03

like, what are you doing? I

1:16:05

mean, that's the, that is the

1:16:08

dumbest thing you could ever do.

1:16:10

And for him, he was like,

1:16:12

he's like, I'm not worried, you

1:16:14

know, about anything like that. He's

1:16:16

like, for me, we only have

1:16:18

such a limited product. We're not

1:16:20

going to make a bunch more.

1:16:22

And I just... you know, I

1:16:25

don't think everyone needs, you know,

1:16:27

ever, like every single shirt I

1:16:29

make and every single pant I

1:16:31

make. And I sat there the

1:16:33

rest of the dinner just completely,

1:16:35

you know, in awe of like

1:16:37

the kind of confidence it takes

1:16:39

to do that because I think

1:16:42

you have to have some level

1:16:44

of confidence in the fact that

1:16:46

you're going to sell so you

1:16:48

can pay your bills. I mean,

1:16:50

regardless of whatever we want to

1:16:52

call it, this is still a

1:16:54

business and people have to get

1:16:56

paid and you have to take

1:16:58

care of a family and yourselves

1:17:01

and stuff. to really put a

1:17:03

level of restraint on your consumer

1:17:05

is unheard of. And of course,

1:17:07

in this case, it completely backfired

1:17:09

because people are infuriated that they're

1:17:11

told that they can't buy so

1:17:13

much. And so people are trying

1:17:15

to buy more. And so he's

1:17:18

like, maybe I just shouldn't have

1:17:20

said anything. You know? and just

1:17:22

kept it to myself. But it

1:17:24

was fascinating to hear, but I

1:17:26

think it's very good and refreshing

1:17:28

for any person who runs a

1:17:30

brand to be like, hey, maybe

1:17:32

you don't need something new. That's

1:17:35

why the thing that you already

1:17:37

bought is so great. I mean

1:17:39

it's so funny because once for

1:17:41

example we had a customer at

1:17:43

the ferret I think it was

1:17:45

one of the first exhibitions where

1:17:47

we showed our stuff and she

1:17:49

was like oh my gosh I

1:17:52

love it I love it and

1:17:54

I'm gonna buy this and I'm

1:17:56

gonna buy this and I'm gonna

1:17:58

buy this quantity and this and

1:18:00

I want that and I'm like

1:18:02

wow listen this is the first

1:18:04

season You told me I have

1:18:06

a small store. It sounds as

1:18:08

if half of the store would

1:18:11

be our brand. She's like, yeah,

1:18:13

yeah, I really love it. And

1:18:15

I'm like, why don't we start

1:18:17

like really small? Oh, yeah. You

1:18:19

try it. If you're happy and

1:18:21

content and you see that just

1:18:23

so well, next season you buy

1:18:25

a little more. Yeah. And the

1:18:28

next one a little more. And

1:18:30

then you tested. And she looked

1:18:32

at me like, you know, I'm

1:18:34

doing this business for 30 years

1:18:36

for 30 years. Nobody has told

1:18:38

me to buy less. She's like,

1:18:40

that's amazing. You know what, we're

1:18:42

going to do it like that.

1:18:45

Until today, she's still a customer

1:18:47

and she's like, wow. I was

1:18:49

like, what is she telling me?

1:18:51

I mean, I could, we could

1:18:53

have sold her like quantities like

1:18:55

immediately, but we. Maybe that's a

1:18:57

little bit our nature. We rather,

1:18:59

you know, we don't want to-

1:19:02

A slow build. Yeah, slow, like

1:19:04

slowly build up and rather have

1:19:06

content customers if it's the retailer

1:19:08

or the customers who come to

1:19:10

the store rather than, hey, I'm

1:19:12

buying it all and then, whoa,

1:19:14

I mean, now we have the

1:19:16

confidence, meanwhile, we know. We have

1:19:19

the experience that most of the

1:19:21

time people are very content, but

1:19:23

it was at the beginning. I

1:19:25

mean, we didn't know, gosh, can

1:19:27

we really deliver the goods in

1:19:29

a very high quality way? Can

1:19:31

we deliver on time? I mean,

1:19:33

there were so many question marks

1:19:35

still and we said like, we

1:19:38

were. rather want to throw it

1:19:40

in a small and like healthy

1:19:42

way, which we still do till

1:19:44

today. But I mean, it's nice

1:19:46

to hear that you're, you know,

1:19:48

that's how you're approaching your business

1:19:50

and stuff too. I mean, I

1:19:52

think, you know, I remember a

1:19:55

friend of mine, he had started

1:19:57

a brand that way back in

1:19:59

like the kind of heritage menswear

1:20:01

days, it really blew up. And

1:20:03

he had to scale really fast.

1:20:05

And then, you know, the trend.

1:20:07

kind of faded and then he

1:20:09

was left with this massive capital

1:20:12

investment that he made into his

1:20:14

brand that he couldn't really afford

1:20:16

because now the sales sort of

1:20:18

disappeared and I think a lot

1:20:20

of people don't always realize that

1:20:22

that can be you know hype

1:20:24

can also kill a brand when

1:20:26

things get because that brand is

1:20:29

forced to meet that customer and

1:20:31

I think so many people are

1:20:33

scared to tell a customer no

1:20:35

or wait. you know, but I

1:20:37

mean, I think you guys have

1:20:39

done a really good job with

1:20:41

that and it's, it goes to

1:20:43

show that, you know, the confidence

1:20:45

of your brand and your product

1:20:48

is, is enough. So I think,

1:20:50

I think that's, that's really, that's

1:20:52

really beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, thank

1:20:54

you. Yeah. Well, Peter, thank you

1:20:56

so much for, for joining me

1:20:58

today. This was a lot of

1:21:00

fun. Before we say by, is

1:21:02

there anything you want to add

1:21:05

or mention that I didn't They

1:21:07

thank you to everybody who supports

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yeah. Yeah. And I do have

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an idea for a piece where

1:21:19

you're like, this would be a

1:21:22

basic, I was really looking for

1:21:24

like this next shape or this

1:21:26

neckline or this rib or this

1:21:28

color, I would be more than

1:21:30

happy to receive that. And maybe

1:21:32

you find it in the next

1:21:34

collection. There you go. Cool. But

1:21:36

thank you so much. It was

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You've been listening to Blamo, our

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