0:01

The killer's weapon? A

0:04

40-ton truck? The victim's

0:06

only defense? All you

0:09

need to know is

0:11

that the name of

0:14

the show is Blake

0:16

Jack? The killer's blank

0:19

check? The killer's weapon?

0:22

A weapon? truck. truck.

0:26

The victim's only

0:28

defense? A startling podcast.

0:31

What's... That's really an... spoiler really

0:33

also. Kind of giving away his one move in like minute 82. I

0:35

was away is one move in like

0:37

it sound like the movie I was gonna say

0:39

that's the last minute guy not like

0:41

that makes it sound like the

0:43

movie is him like weavers an elaborate what he

0:45

Right, what if a truck guy

0:47

tried to kill for most ingenious the right?

0:49

Craven the hunter-craven the like hunter-craven the So

0:51

what he doesn't know is that I'm

0:53

really good at setting traps for the hunter-craven

0:55

that's almost the eventual sequel the

0:59

hunter-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in-in What if this

1:01

talk were we're going

1:03

after the Hunter the greatest trap

1:05

artist? Trapper John MD to go after

1:07

him. Yeah, he's probably go after him.

1:09

Yeah, he's probably the second I think

1:12

I know. is I think Young

1:14

Thug is definitely one of our best

1:16

trap artists. it Isn't it crazy, David, to

1:18

think? You could You could just go after film.

1:20

I was waiting for Ben to to in

1:22

with him with that. Yes. Like the... The, the,

1:24

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, so

1:26

here's the film we're pitching. It's

1:28

a legacy equal to a legacy equal

1:30

to off of a poster that

1:33

exists off not that famous that

1:35

40 ton truck has returned that the

1:37

flammable truck itself. Right, even though it

1:39

blew up, it's back. has Spoiler alert. The and

1:42

it has to fight a team of

1:44

good guys. though it represented by

1:46

the back. Somehow. himself. What was the joke

1:48

he What was the joke he

1:50

made of a artist? Young Thug. Young

1:52

Thug. Trapper trapper empty. Trapper I think

1:54

that's the four. That's the

1:56

Mount Rushmore of mount rush more of

1:59

This is bubble else a a movie

2:01

trapping. It's just not at

2:03

all all. It's not at This is a terrible

2:05

tangent to start a mini series on. The

2:07

not good were not good either. No, this

2:09

movie are like, this what's the matter

2:12

with this guy? the matter with this guy? Exactly.

2:14

Beep. Griffin,

4:02

that we covered. We did

4:04

in did in 2017, right?

4:06

is that right? in, It was

4:09

in, the it was the

4:11

first episode January 2017. So you know what's

4:13

So you know what's crazy? We were

4:15

kicking off a certain presidency both

4:17

times, yes. yes. Is that Is

4:19

that what you're gonna say? Yep. say? Yep.

4:21

Yep. crazy. That's I didn't realize it

4:23

lined up lined up been been eight years. It's It's

4:25

been eight long years. Since we

4:27

on this podcast covered the films of

4:29

Steven Spielberg, but last time we a

4:32

a curve ball. We did. And we we

4:34

started in the middle of his

4:36

career. We called Spielberg the Dreamworks We didn't know

4:38

what we were doing back then. doing.

4:40

We did were doing. were doing. we covered

4:42

all of Steven Spielberg's films starting with

4:44

the Lost World Jurassic Park, going

4:46

all the way through to what seemed

4:48

way the to apex. like film he would

4:50

ever make, the final film he would ever

4:52

make, then, he's made like then

4:54

more movies. We've covered all of

4:56

those. But we've never covered

4:58

everything leading up. everything leading up to

5:00

Jurassic Park. Right. And look, what

5:03

better way? to start off to

5:05

start off our 10th year than to

5:07

say, I had always thought Lost world,

5:09

the Jurassic... Park sequel was his first

5:11

film ever. found out. I found

5:13

out I recently found out that

5:15

in fact the first half of his

5:17

career was a series of the

5:19

greatest successes success as any director has had

5:22

a couple of hits of hits

5:24

in those 70s 80s range for range for

5:26

sure, and we're going to

5:28

talk about Through the early 90s. Blank check

5:30

or something. I said this already. Oh, but the mini

5:32

series titled. Is that right? Yep.

5:34

I didn't remember. I Podrasic

5:37

cast. Podrasic cast. Okay. Good. One more time?

5:39

Wow, we're being run off the road for

5:41

that title. Ben being run off

5:43

the road for that title to

5:45

properly load the truck us that it took

5:47

40 minutes to properly load the

5:49

truck sounds down the right Well, I had you

5:51

know, it's down the right It's not

5:53

know? It's very important. It's not just

5:56

any kind of truck horn. It's gotta be

5:58

the right one. an you're an artist. is Ben.

6:00

Yes. A.K.A. Oh boy. No, here's

6:02

what I'm gonna do. Just one

6:04

of them. Okay. Warhaws. You know

6:06

what? That's a good way to

6:08

do it if you just did

6:10

one every time. This is a

6:12

thing I'm doing for year 10.

6:14

2025. Year of Ben has one

6:16

nickname per episode. Exactly. I think

6:18

that's a nice way to look

6:20

back and look forward. What is

6:23

Ben's David Lynch name? Great question.

6:25

Huh. Figure figured out later. We're

6:27

here to talk about. That will

6:29

be how we end 2024. Fine.

6:31

You will have heard it by

6:33

this point. The films of Steven

6:35

Spielberg, starting with this week's film,

6:37

Jewell. No, a bit of a

6:39

controversial... Not really. Start in terms

6:41

of... There is some debate. You

6:43

know, have you watched the John

6:45

Williams, Disney Plus documentary yet? No.

6:47

He goes out of his way,

6:49

Spielberg, to say my first movie,

6:51

Sugar Land Express. Which I understand

6:53

because I think at the time,

6:55

that's what it was. That was

6:57

his first cinematic release. And we

6:59

can dig into this a bit.

7:01

And back then they didn't have

7:03

Peacock, you know, in Paramount Plus.

7:05

I can't even imagine. The lines

7:08

were not blurry. It was like,

7:10

if you're a TV movie, well,

7:12

then that was on TV. You

7:14

didn't catch him what it must

7:16

have been like to live through

7:18

an era without Peacock. You don't

7:20

even get to see super-sizedes' super-sized

7:22

cuts of the office? I don't

7:24

remember. I don't remember. I mean,

7:26

thank God I was born in

7:28

the year 2020, and I never

7:30

had to witness it. I entered

7:32

humanity just while I was getting

7:34

things. It is weird to think

7:36

that my children were... Right. Well,

7:38

they might... I mean, Peacock may

7:40

not make it. Like, I'm not

7:42

trying to be rude to Peacock,

7:44

but it could leave. I shuddered

7:46

a thing. But, but they certainly

7:48

arrived in a world with Peacock.

7:50

You have three post-peacock children. That's

7:52

a way to think about a

7:55

demurocation of time. It's been a

7:57

year since we covered Spielberg and

7:59

five years since Peacock launched It's

8:01

ban April 2020. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

8:03

after the NBC logo I had

8:05

no idea. Look, the world was

8:07

grieving. A global pandemic had us

8:09

in its grips. An NBC Universal

8:11

said we have the cure. Peacock?

8:13

There's no vaccine yet, but there

8:15

is a vaccine for the soul.

8:17

And it's called Peacock. It's a

8:19

great way to start. It's probably

8:21

one of our biggest series we've

8:23

ever done. The 10th anniversary, dual.

8:25

Pedracic cast. Ben. David. It sounds

8:27

like you're saying jewel. Yeah, have

8:29

you seen her before? Where's she

8:31

at? Her hands are small. Sometimes

8:33

she's in a boat. But they're

8:35

around. Famously lived in her car.

8:37

Right. Oh right, that's the joke.

8:40

If that were true, I would

8:42

have heard about. No, I've never

8:44

seen this before. I caught a

8:46

little bit of it on TV.

8:48

I have this distinct memory and

8:50

just being like, what the fuck

8:52

is this? What the fuck is

8:54

this? What, like, like, like, like,

8:56

this is so slow, Every day

8:58

interaction kind of it just was

9:00

out of context was really weird

9:02

to just catch it on cable

9:04

TV But was it not until

9:06

you watched it in earnest for

9:08

this podcast that you realized. Oh,

9:10

that's that thing I saw years

9:12

ago. Yes. Oh, yes So at

9:14

the time you're watching you did

9:16

not know it was Steven Spielberg's

9:18

first film dual. No We are

9:20

certainly covering dual which yes was

9:22

made for television But then did

9:24

get years later overseas back then.

9:27

And years later did get a

9:29

limited a small release in America

9:31

too. To kind of capitalize upon

9:33

the Spielberg mania. Who? Stephen Spielberg.

9:35

Stephen Spielberg. So we are certainly,

9:37

we always planned if we ever

9:39

returned to Stephen's career earlier on

9:41

to lead off with Jewell. Very

9:43

fun movie about a guy. driving

9:45

a car a guy driving a

9:47

truck is mean to look we've

9:49

covered the ground a little bit

9:51

before in the history of the

9:53

podcast where most TV movies of

9:55

any quality would get theatrical releases

9:57

overseas. Because they didn't have televisions

9:59

over there. Said fireplaces. It's crazy.

10:01

Peacock didn't exist until 2020. Europe

10:03

didn't get TV till 98. Yeah.

10:05

For them they just had the

10:07

radio. Those are just facts. Yep.

10:09

There would be the radio releases

10:12

of movies, or TV shows, or

10:14

someone would be like, this is

10:16

happening now, just describing it. Something

10:18

like Jericho Mile, the Michael Mann

10:20

TV film that we covered on

10:22

this show, and we cover as

10:24

a bonus. Right, if you made

10:26

a really good TV movie like

10:28

that. They put it in theaters.

10:30

Yeah. The Ewok movies got theatrical

10:32

releases. Like I said. Really good

10:34

movies. The best movies. Movies. But

10:36

you know, we have a lot

10:38

of international listeners and sometimes they'll

10:40

be like, why aren't you covering

10:42

this as a legitimate film? It

10:44

got a legitimate release here. It

10:46

was presented to us as a

10:48

movie. And I think for us,

10:50

a lot of it is how

10:52

was the thing intended? Right. Right.

10:54

And it's construction, it's conception. What

10:56

did they think this was? And

10:59

dual is this kind of odd

11:01

example where and we'll back up

11:03

and we'll get into this more

11:05

in depth, but he makes this

11:07

TV movie that's basically his second.

11:09

TV film, or I guess a

11:11

third, in a way, we'll get

11:13

into this, but Arizona TV is

11:15

kind of a smash success, almost

11:17

immediately there's a desire to release

11:19

it in Europe. It is 75

11:21

minutes long. They're like, this is

11:23

a little too short, so he

11:25

shoots new footage. Yeah, basically 15

11:27

extra minutes. So the cuts are

11:29

not wildly different, but they are.

11:31

different. And there's a whole second

11:33

round of shooting to kind of

11:35

amp it up to theatrical level.

11:37

Him coming back to it even

11:39

a little bit stronger as a

11:41

filmmaker. Then that goes to Europe

11:44

and then eventually gets a theatrical

11:46

release. And since then there's been

11:48

ongoing debate of do you count

11:50

this as his first movie or

11:52

not? And I'm with you David.

11:54

I think this counts as his

11:56

first movie. I do too, but

11:58

I do prefer the TV cut.

12:00

Is that controversial? Um, hmm. I

12:02

kind of just don't need the

12:04

extra stuff. Hmm. Just leave me

12:06

in the, you know, maybe, get

12:08

a tight, tight. I like it

12:10

tight. We can get into this.

12:12

I don't hate the extra stuff.

12:14

Yeah. I just don't think you

12:16

don't really need it. Did you

12:18

get the 4K steel book? I'm

12:20

kind of a rookie. You're struggling

12:22

right now? I'm just watching movies

12:24

on my phone while I burp

12:26

a child. I'm doing my best

12:28

over here. You know what helped

12:31

put those twins to sleep? What?

12:33

A clean 4K transfer of Stephen

12:35

Spielberg's dual. You're saying the movie's

12:37

boring? No, I'm saying. Your twin

12:39

sons would sense the relaxation that

12:41

comes from being in the hands

12:43

of a master. Yeah. Even his

12:45

earliest stages. They'd go, oh, this

12:47

guy knows what he's doing. He

12:49

knows how to make a picture.

12:51

Right. And immediately, Hong Shoo, Hong

12:53

Shoo. And what more soothing sound

12:55

than the sound of a truck

12:57

horn? I was watching it here

12:59

in the office before we recorded,

13:01

right? I got my 4K in

13:03

here. It looks incredible. It's a

13:05

beautiful transfer. Ben, would you mind

13:07

moving this chair a little bit?

13:09

So my remote signal can hit.

13:11

Just move that chair a tiny

13:13

bit. This is the thing I

13:16

want to show you, because this

13:18

caused a lot of controversy in

13:20

the nerdiest corners of physical media

13:22

online debate. Okay? This beautiful, beautiful

13:24

4K transfer. A bucical. It's a

13:26

bucical 4K transfer. A lot of

13:28

people like you prefer the TV

13:30

cut. And they were like, okay,

13:32

perfect 4K restoration really treated with

13:34

respect of the theatrical cut of

13:36

the movie. And then they listed

13:38

special features. There's the TV version.

13:40

That's included, great. It says it's

13:42

in HD. You have your options.

13:44

Yeah, so it's not in 4K,

13:46

it's in HD. Then you play

13:48

this. It is the worst AI.

13:50

quote-unquote restoration. Oh, It basically

13:52

unwatchable. I'm gonna fast Whoa,

13:54

see. me I'm gonna

13:56

fast a to

13:58

a point of

14:00

movement so you

14:03

can see this

14:05

and we can

14:07

get your reaction

14:09

live, but there's live,

14:11

but there's like, cars some credits

14:13

got here. going here. a

14:15

nice car. car. I know I know kind of

14:17

of a, know know, nice car, car, truck.

14:19

Broken down old. Yeah. Plymouth or

14:22

whatever whatever You see a little of

14:24

how of how it looks. It does look

14:26

a little shiny. shiny. And it feels like

14:28

they took a standard standard deaf file,

14:30

and wanted it to say it

14:32

was HD, so they so they tried

14:34

to it. But it. they did But the

14:36

way they did that was just, Right? Oh, it

14:38

right? very odd. Oh, it looks very odd.

14:40

it it gets worse as it goes

14:42

along. It looks like it has some

14:44

weird Photoshop filter on it. It does,

14:47

like his face looks too smooth. too smooth.

14:49

but then the outline of of the of

14:51

his profile is really strong.

14:53

There's a black line it looks

14:55

looks like it's posterized. Yeah, but odd.

14:57

it bit odd. worse it gets

14:59

worse along, it goes along.

15:01

Unsurprisingly, as it extends into

15:03

proper. proper. Right. Oh, wow. Yeah, wait, what's going on

15:05

going on? It's It's almost like, is

15:08

our our projector broken like

15:10

that's what it's making me what

15:12

it's making me pick. Or what the stuff? It looks

15:14

like, like, we like like 3D glass. Right, without

15:16

glasses. It looks like this Vaseline on. Right. There's different

15:19

problems every 30 seconds. But it because basically

15:21

it's like this should exist

15:23

in a valid form as

15:25

its own valid I mean, if

15:27

you just want to show

15:29

it to me show it to show

15:32

know me in a. just standard like TV like

15:34

This is my point. It's genuinely better to

15:36

just watch a shitty YouTube version of

15:38

it than watch this YouTube version of it

15:40

than watch this. it off. it off. Yeah. Let's

15:42

keep it playing so we

15:44

can give ourselves headaches. ourselves headaches. Uh,

15:47

let's crack open the crack open the

15:49

dossier. Uh, wait a a it's only one line

15:51

and it says, go watch the and it says go

15:53

watch the fablements. Jay Jay, you are

15:55

fired. No, I'm gonna I'm going to open

15:57

the dossier so we can talk about

15:59

an... under -discussed figure in

16:02

American figure in Spielberg.

16:04

cinema. Stephen Spielberg, Griffin.

16:06

You learn something

16:08

new something new every day

16:11

like Michael Sarah in Barbie. He was

16:13

Allen. He was Allen.

16:15

He was Allen. was Allen. Born

16:17

December 1946. Did you you

16:19

know that? No. What's the a sign?

16:21

Of Of course that would make him

16:23

a Sagittarius. a totally. That makes so much

16:25

sense. So That

16:27

was much sense. Yeah, he was

16:29

he was to his to his

16:31

birth. Sure. Born in in Cincinnati,

16:34

Ohio. Actually, apparently there's been

16:36

there's been some controversy over

16:38

his birthday because it's

16:40

often recorded as happening in

16:42

1947, is something that which is

16:44

something that of maybe I think,

16:46

helped massage the truth massage the

16:48

truth about to get out

16:50

of a contract, matter. doesn't

16:53

matter. not is not important,

16:55

Was he maybe pretending to be you?

16:57

older when he started career. Yes. Uh,

16:59

but I think he used it. He basically

17:02

but I think he used a He younger pretended

17:04

to be a year younger to get a

17:06

contract dismissed. he Okay. Or like he pretended

17:08

to be... It doesn't know, it doesn't

17:10

matter. Steven Spielberg, Spielberg, born to parents

17:12

Arnold and No, I'm I'm sorry, No, parents

17:14

Paul Dana and Michelle Williams. Yeah, there

17:17

we go. There we go. J. J. Big whiff

17:19

on on And course, course. I

17:21

Paul Paul to high school with Lea's

17:23

brother, Leah's brother Bernie. So that's how they

17:25

knew each other. They started dating after

17:27

high school. after high school. Lea, of course,

17:29

was a musician. She went to

17:31

the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music. Arnold

17:34

was in the Air Force.

17:36

They got married after the

17:38

war. the Air Force. They got married after the

17:40

Lea, was planning to be

17:42

a concert pianist, to be a she

17:45

stopped doing it and

17:47

had she stopped doing it kids. four kids.

17:49

She girls, and three Nancy. and Nancy. And of

17:51

And of course, as we know,

17:53

they moved to New Jersey was like a

17:55

there was like a tornado there

17:57

all it was all very metaphorical eventually...

18:00

they ended up in Arizona, Arizona and you

18:02

know it was to get away from

18:04

the Seth Rogan yes because he was he was

18:06

so sexy and hot. I'm just doing the

18:08

doing the and non-threatening way a kind of

18:10

a friendly way, but still like there's

18:13

a real tension No, I mean tension

18:15

there no I mean It's what what Jay-J even out

18:17

to us and was like Do

18:19

you guys mind if I you more

18:21

time than usual trying to prepare this

18:23

first trying to Because he was like

18:26

it's it's actually harder for me to

18:28

pin down the down the pre-movie

18:30

career Spielberg story than I thought it

18:32

would be. be. And And I think

18:34

part of that is because he was

18:36

kind of. tight-lipped about his personal life.

18:38

more recently recently when he finally got into

18:41

it? no? Oh, yeah. I mean, mean, there a a

18:43

lot of him speaking in very general

18:45

terms, and then people inferring a lot

18:47

from his films, right? So there was

18:49

like, well, clearly this guy never got

18:51

over his parents' divorce. Right. then I feel

18:53

like there was a lot of of from

18:56

him. him. And then when they did

18:58

the HBO documentary, whatever that was, was.

19:00

Yeah, like six or or seven years ago, He

19:02

he started talking more openly about

19:04

his relationship with his parents. his his

19:07

parents And his parents are in that documentary together.

19:09

Right. Being very sweet with each

19:11

other, other but about about obviously yes Seth Rogan and yes like

19:13

that one that one time she had

19:15

the monkey and all that stuff and

19:17

Seth and like why am I getting

19:19

dragged into this? dragged into

19:21

this I never met the woman

19:24

impression fell fell apart really

19:26

really fell apart what I had

19:28

for seconds maybe unearly memory of

19:30

course memory of course, but then

19:33

of of course is the the he made

19:35

Yes, unpacks more of it But

19:37

also also we should is a fictionalized

19:39

movie is a it's it's it's

19:41

consolidated It's traumatized. I think it's of

19:43

clothes for example He remembers a

19:46

lot first film he attended is

19:48

he greatest show on earth sure

19:50

film he he the greatest show on

19:52

know, Where saw the circus

19:54

on on screen and uh, was he

19:56

was freaked out, right? Uh,

19:58

train wreck, Stewart is... the clown. As he

20:01

puts it, I was disappointed by

20:03

he puts it, was disappointed by everything

20:05

after that. I didn't trust anybody.

20:07

I never felt life was good enough

20:09

so I had to embellish it.

20:11

It begins his obsession with Hollywood Hollywood

20:13

This is the thing that is the thing that

20:16

I we've talked about a lot, but

20:18

about a lot, but Fablemans provided such an effective

20:20

codex for me and understanding

20:22

him in a way him before

20:24

I hadn't before, is like... Oh, the the kind

20:26

of like like truths of this guy

20:28

are, he is like hyper he is like

20:30

and and feels things really deeply. the

20:32

Two, he the only way he

20:34

knows how to process those things

20:36

is through filmmaking. And three, And is kind of

20:38

he is kind of scared by

20:40

how effective he is at manipulating

20:42

other people's emotions through filmmaking. That his

20:45

like prodigious gift is gift is

20:47

something he doesn't quite understand he he

20:49

always feels a little guilty about

20:51

about. Speaking of his

20:53

parents obviously as well, the

20:55

two sides of Spielberg, his

20:57

father, the technician, his father, the technician, precise,

20:59

computer obsessed. You know, know, he was

21:02

in that movie movie, Ruby Of

21:04

course. Of and then his

21:06

mother, right? mother, right? Sort of the

21:08

Dawson's Creek of the family, in

21:10

a way, the family, in a to date

21:12

Eddie Artistic. Used to date any broth. a big

21:14

failing of the last dance, right?

21:16

last That she's just not in it

21:18

or just not be in it about. There

21:20

are lot of problems with that movie, but I

21:22

put that chief among them. but I put that

21:25

chief they don't even try

21:27

to address her absence,

21:29

right? Steven right? absence from Spielberg's

21:31

they don't. They're not from

21:33

venom three. Yeah, they don't. I'm sorry

21:36

about not mentioned. I'm sorry about

21:38

venom. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry

21:40

about that. Spielberg remembers at a

21:42

young age, his dad coming home with

21:44

a transistor showing it to showing it to

21:46

his children and being like, this is

21:48

the future. And Spielberg says that he

21:50

took it and put it in his

21:52

mouth and swallowed it. it. And And he

21:54

remembers is as this kind of like confrontation.

21:56

Like he was was trying to be funny,

21:58

but it was very tense. tense. Spielberg says. It's as

22:00

if I was I was saying your your

22:02

future, but it doesn't have to be

22:04

mine, to be mine, is funny funny think

22:06

about because I do feel like Spielberg

22:08

is seen as a as a... a -edge

22:10

filmmaker when it comes to technology to

22:12

pretty much his whole career. much his not

22:14

like Spielberg is a guy who not

22:16

a while to catch up to

22:18

usually breaking through some big barrier if

22:21

he's making a bigger scale movie. some

22:23

he's also talked a lot making an

22:25

adult, a think know since his father

22:27

passed away and he's felt more comfortable

22:29

talking about think without fear his father Both

22:31

his parents died at the age of

22:33

like a billion. Like they both had these

22:35

like long lives. which

22:37

is great. fear of upsetting. Fantastic! Like his

22:39

his dad was a when

22:41

he died. And his mom And his mom

22:43

was like were right, so. Yeah, and like

22:46

he said that, he you know, I

22:48

know, I think his father His father did

22:50

not totally know how to relate

22:52

to people. 97. He was like a a

22:54

genius. Yes, very very smart, right. Did not relate

22:56

to people, but was a time where

22:59

people didn't understand what he was

23:01

so good at. good at. And

23:03

Spielberg's like, if if he were born 10

23:05

years later, would he would a been a

23:07

wildly successful publicly genius. Right, Right. Just maybe

23:09

slightly early for the computer age or

23:11

whatever. age was or or early like too being

23:13

a pioneer in terms of discovering the

23:16

basic building blocks of the thing, where

23:18

he was one of the first people

23:20

to understand it and know how to

23:22

do it to do it well. but was like a little

23:24

too late to be the ground breakers

23:26

and a little bit too early to be

23:28

the people who knew how to evolve

23:30

it. And he just kind of became a

23:32

of guy in the field that then

23:34

ultimately would end up like ruling the world. would end

23:37

up he was born at the exact

23:39

wrong time to just be time

23:41

of be a kind of like know? You know, a well-paid

23:43

high-level drone. Meanwhile his

23:45

mother his mother, apart from appearing

23:47

on Dawson's Creek, is is just energetic, childlike.

23:50

He describes her as this kind of

23:52

kind of like... you know, musical person in

23:54

all these ways ways and you know, kind

23:56

of never grew up in a way

23:58

and, in a way you know. It's all just watch

24:01

the favorite ones. I should also mention

24:03

that on top of his dad being

24:05

a computer genius Both parents also by

24:07

the way just say like Stephen intense

24:10

kid like it's like it's as much

24:12

as he has mythologists parents so much.

24:14

They're both like he was really a

24:16

lot like he was a really intense

24:19

kid and kind of talked around this

24:21

is what I'm saying about like the

24:23

whole slam on Spielberg for a long

24:25

time that we I'm sure will comment

24:28

on as as we like read the

24:30

reviews and such at the time these

24:32

wild successful films got released, right, is

24:34

he's like Peter Pan syndrome, overgrown child,

24:37

doesn't engage with adult world, is just

24:39

making hollow entertainment, he's like a slick

24:41

showman, but he's like dumbing down culture,

24:43

and this guy is like avoiding adulthood

24:46

and reality. And I think, once again,

24:48

the movie The Fabulments makes it very

24:50

clear that part of this complex is

24:52

that he was like brought into an

24:54

adult world prematurely and burdened with like

24:57

his parents' problems in a way that

24:59

I think kind of bifurcated him, right?

25:01

In one way he's like too aware

25:03

of the adult world from too young

25:06

an age and then... feels the need

25:08

to escape and look back and all

25:10

this other stuff. But it also feels

25:12

like he was a kid who felt

25:15

things way too intensely as a child,

25:17

was very burdened by like, you know,

25:19

a sort of like fear of reality,

25:21

and it makes sense that like the

25:24

ability to control the universe around him

25:26

and make these stories that are these

25:28

aesthetic expressions of emotions in sort of

25:30

novel entertaining ways isn't avoidance as much

25:33

as it's as I was saying before

25:35

processing. Griffin?

25:40

Oh wait, no, this is me.

25:42

I'm just doing a solo ad

25:44

read. Listen, uh, this time of

25:46

year people are saying, oh, ho,

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ho, Merry Christmas. Or ha, ha,

25:50

ha. Happy Hanukkah, or happy holidays.

25:53

I guess it works for both.

25:55

But what I want to encourage

25:57

people to say is, moh, moh,

25:59

moh. Merry movies. Yeah. Because this

26:01

is Blank Check with Griffin David,

26:03

we love movies and we are

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so excited that our friends at

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Regal are continuing to support the

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a lot of regal ads before.

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I get it. I know what

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he's offering. 10% off your three

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our strategy with advertising on this

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productions and a big part of

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that is us being really excited

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about partnerships like our friends at

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Regal that feel very on topic

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of what we do on this

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podcast and feels like a great

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opportunity to encourage people to take

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up and offer to go see

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movies, a thing I imagine, a

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lot of our listeners really want

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to do. So if you're looking

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for a way to say thanks

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and show support for the podcast,

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this would be a really helpful

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thing to do. Thank you very

28:21

much, and one last time, Momomo,

28:23

Mary Movies. Yeah,

28:28

he, you know, he was intense. There's

28:30

a lot of stories about it. Anyway,

28:33

in 1957, he watched the film, he

28:35

moved to Arizona. Spielberg says his most

28:37

formative time. He's lived there from the

28:39

age of nine to 16. Leah, his

28:41

mom, sorry, Michelle, doesn't want to move

28:43

there. Right. She sees it a bit

28:45

of a barren wasteland. She's really struggling

28:47

at that point. Sure. His dad's best

28:50

friend was dating a porn star next

28:52

door and it turned out that he

28:54

has surprisingly large penis. What movie is

28:56

that? What's next door? I thought if

28:58

I said next door. The Paldano character.

29:00

Oh, right? I forgot he's in that.

29:02

His character's name is Clitz. I haven't

29:04

seen that movie in 20 years? I

29:07

regret to inform you as a tenant.

29:09

It's a 10 master. Is that right.

29:11

Is that so? You know, you know

29:13

who endorses that take? I don't. One

29:15

Stephen Spielberg. Oh, he loves the girl

29:17

next door. He likes Luke Greenfield's, the,

29:19

the, whatever. He wrote Luke Greenfield a

29:21

letter when he watched it. When he

29:24

moves to Arizona, what does Spielberg get

29:26

his hands on? A camera. A movie?

29:28

Camera. Filming trains crashing crashing together and

29:30

his mom dancing around. Taking control of

29:32

his own universe. Documenting, reconstructing. reverse engineering

29:34

all of it it's it's it's the

29:36

tool for him to make sense of

29:38

everything his family was Jewish but what

29:41

he calls storefront crocher I think probably

29:43

similar to the family my mom grew

29:45

up in where it's like you know

29:47

they were a Jewish family they went

29:49

to you know they did all the

29:51

stuff right but they were also this

29:53

like very American post-war family that was

29:55

trying to assimilate and you know my

29:58

dad's family was incredibly similar but but

30:00

this is also you get your bar

30:02

mitzvah you go to synagogue you keep

30:04

kosher in the sort of like you

30:06

know kind of like straightforward way not

30:08

like the mega intense way well yeah

30:10

the post-World War two thing of like

30:12

Jews wanting to be American above all

30:15

else, but they're never going to overcome

30:17

being perceived as Jewish above all else

30:19

by everyone else around. Comes up in

30:21

The Fablemans a couple times. Good movie.

30:23

Check it out. We're going to put

30:25

footnotes on this episode and the episode

30:27

notes that are just watch the Fablemans

30:29

27 times. When you read so much

30:32

of the stuff, it is kind of

30:34

like LOL watched the Fablemans. Yeah. He

30:36

had a bully who treated him like

30:38

shit when he was like 13 years

30:40

old and he cast him. at that

30:42

age in a war movie he made

30:44

called Escape to Nowhere because he would

30:47

make all these little movies with his

30:49

friends and like that one the kid

30:51

over. So Spielberg is using the power

30:53

of movies to you know be friends

30:55

with people. And the fablemen, the bullying

30:57

is they call him Begelman right and

30:59

they put a bagel in his locker

31:01

and when we did that episode we

31:04

were discussing like what do you think

31:06

the the actual thing was they were

31:08

saying to Spielbergberg? Right. They used to

31:10

make fun of him for looking like

31:12

a bug. Damn. So then he brundle-flied

31:14

their ass. He went into a teleporter.

31:16

He went to his dad and he's

31:18

like, you know, get at that computer

31:21

stuff. As he's a teenager, he has

31:23

some family in the L.A. area. Sneaks

31:25

onto the Warner Brothers lot. He's the

31:27

making of the movie PT-109, which I

31:29

think is the dramatization of a... The

31:31

Cliff Robertson, Jay, John Kennedy, War Service.

31:33

A pretty solid movie. In 1963, he

31:35

gets brought on to the Universal lot

31:38

by Chuck Silvers, who will be important

31:40

later. In 1964, he makes a feature-length

31:42

movie called Firelight. He premieres at a

31:44

theater in Phoenix. I think he, you

31:46

know, makes $500. There's a

31:48

whole story about

31:50

it, but this is

31:52

two and a

31:55

half hours long. No

31:57

one half has never

31:59

been one has never been

32:01

viewable except for some

32:03

little snippet that

32:05

he's made public. I

32:07

mean, this that he's made

32:09

his parents this is right

32:12

when his moves back divorce.

32:14

Okay. Michelle moves back east or No, they

32:16

No, they move to California and that's when

32:18

the divorce happens. Right, that's what it is.

32:20

I was gonna say, it is. I was going to say

32:22

we. had talked about wanting to do a

32:24

Spielberg Shorts episode on on It feels

32:26

like Amblin is the only one of

32:28

them that's properly watchable, which is basically

32:31

his last short film before he becomes

32:33

a professional director. a professional I always thought

32:35

they were more out there because you'd

32:37

sometimes see clips of them played in

32:39

like documentaries and and and stuff, but he

32:41

doesn't let the full versions out there.

32:43

he There's also the weird. out there.

32:46

There's also the weird, very fable

32:48

sort of origin story. story. of

32:50

he asked to film in kids

32:52

in his neighborhood in he

32:54

was successful in the are and

32:56

90s films. making their own

32:58

films. Hey, can you work

33:00

on restoring? 8 films which old Super

33:03

8 films, which Spielberg retained, kids, I

33:05

and those two kids, I believe,

33:07

were Matt Reeves and J .J. Abrams.

33:09

Right. like is true. through his, through

33:11

his, you know. things have things have

33:13

been restored and preserved, but Spielberg

33:15

doesn't let people see them. doesn't let people

33:17

see them. Yet. Yet. So he moves to California. think

33:19

that's where he was the most bullied, but

33:21

it's also where he gets the most into

33:23

movie making and stuff. he gets the most into movie making and

33:26

stuff. He to go to to USC UCLA,

33:28

which are the big film schools out

33:30

there there, then, especially, doesn't get get in because

33:32

he has bad grades. Instead he he goes

33:34

to California State College at Long Beach,

33:36

which does have like some film courses,

33:38

but isn't really anything really anything know, you know,

33:41

robust enough. So he just starts sneaking

33:43

onto the lot. on to the He starts

33:45

working. working. as a as a production

33:47

assistant on the on the John

33:49

Cassivetti's film, Faces. A big kind of the

33:51

kind of turning point for Absolutely.

33:53

He's watching how Casavetes treats treats the

33:55

cast, know. He's obviously seeing obviously seeing

33:57

one of the great Americans. filmmakers

34:00

work that's very interesting. So then he's

34:02

also seeing like the one of the

34:04

great American filmmakers figure out his style

34:06

and his style is trying to tear

34:09

down. how movies or sort of workman

34:11

like Hollywood thing. Yeah, he's seeing the

34:13

actual guts of the process of everything.

34:15

And there are varying stories about like,

34:17

did Cassivetti's fire him? Did Spielberg quit?

34:19

Like, Cassivetti's by all accounts kind of

34:22

took a liking to him and said

34:24

some impactful words to him. And the

34:26

story gets like muddy in terms of

34:28

what exactly happened, but it felt like

34:30

Cassivetti's clock that Spielberg had a lot.

34:32

going on in his head and seem

34:35

to have a lot of gumption and

34:37

drive. He tries to make a little

34:39

bicycling drama called slipstream, meets Alan Daviao

34:41

on that movie who will shoot a

34:43

lot of great Spielberg films, but they

34:46

never finished it. Then he makes Amblen,

34:48

a 26-minute film that he shot on

34:50

35 millimeters. That is... Sort of his

34:52

turning point where he presents that we

34:54

will we're actually going to cover it

34:56

Because you can see that one. We'll

34:59

cover that on the patron very soon

35:01

January 11th Yeah, ran a few days.

35:03

Yeah, but he presents that and gets

35:05

a deal at Universal essentially that short

35:07

is him basically Intentionally trying to make

35:10

something that can be a proof of

35:12

concept sell real like it's him trying

35:14

to level up from his childhood short

35:16

films right to like this is a

35:18

calling card Yeah. Doesn't get an Oscar

35:20

nomination for Best Short? Wow. Something of

35:23

a snub. But it's well regarded. Goes

35:25

to Sydney Shamburg. After eventually? Yes, he

35:27

does. Yes. He goes to Sydney Shimburg,

35:29

who is the VP of television production

35:31

at Universal, basically the most powerful person

35:33

he has any connection to through this

35:36

Silver's guy. The Silver's guy is the

35:38

guy that Greg Grumberg plays in Fableman's,

35:40

who was... So I'm sorry. Is my

35:42

wrong about that? I think you're right.

35:44

The guy who worked on Hogan's Heroes,

35:47

who was like a distant relative of

35:49

his. Right. Yeah. And he goes to

35:51

meet with Sid. And he's like, Sid's

35:53

like, well, what do you want to

35:55

do? How would you like to go

35:57

to work professionally? He's basically like, sign

36:00

this contract. You'll do some television. If

36:02

you do a few TV shows, maybe

36:04

you can make a feature film. There

36:06

were a lot of apocryphal stories for...

36:08

Seven-year contract with Universal. A long time

36:11

of Spielberg literally like sneaking onto the

36:13

lot and holding up in an abandoned

36:15

office. He put his name on an

36:17

abandoned office. Right. The catch me if

36:19

you can ask thing, which I think

36:21

I repeated in, catch me if you

36:24

can, episode we recorded eight years ago.

36:26

Sure. But it sounds like a lot

36:28

of that was overstated that Spielberg was

36:30

himself trying to, I don't know, blow

36:32

up the mythology. Right. of his early

36:34

beginnings and make it sound. Like he

36:37

was a sort of Leonardo DiCaprioest rapscallion.

36:39

Yeah. He was banging broads and... Much

36:41

like the real Frank Avignale. Kind of

36:43

probably made some of that shit up.

36:45

He was like sneaking his way into

36:48

a prodigious start but also then told

36:50

a story that was even more extreme

36:52

than the reality. Yes. So, what does

36:54

he work on? He works on a

36:56

little short called Eyes for NBC's Night

36:58

Gallery, which is a rod-sirling sort of

37:01

follow-up to Twilight Zone. It's what if

37:03

Spooky Art Gallery and every piece of

37:05

art inspired will cover that on the

37:07

patrons, but the pilot of Night Gallery

37:09

is like a 90-minute airing in a

37:12

two-hour block, three-30-minute segments, and one of

37:14

them is Spielberg's first official. studio directing

37:16

job, which he made with Joan Crawford,

37:18

legendary Hollywood figure. And he says she

37:20

treated me like I knew what I

37:22

was doing and I didn't, so I

37:25

loved her for that. So they had

37:27

a nice time. But he thought Rod

37:29

Sterling script was bad as much as

37:31

he loves Rod Sterling. He was not

37:33

his best work. I'd agree with that.

37:35

And he kind of looked at the

37:38

script and went to Sheimburg and he

37:40

kind of looked at the script and

37:42

went to Sheimburg. was like take the

37:44

job like just do work you know

37:46

as much as it's not one of

37:49

Sterling's best scripts and we'll talk about

37:51

this on patreon it is kind of

37:53

a perfect piece for Spielberg to just

37:55

test out his visual language famously Joan

37:57

Crawford called MCA, Lou Wasserman, the head

37:59

of Universal, and said, like, this nice

38:02

young man directed me just now. I

38:04

am Joan Crawford, and I want to

38:06

say, I thought he had a lot

38:08

of talent. Right. It's just fascinating, like,

38:10

Crawford being in this is kind of

38:13

a, like, last rung on the latter

38:15

before, like, death, sort of, like, how

38:17

the mighty have fallen kind of thing.

38:19

Yeah, sure. But what happened to so

38:21

many of these late 60s. Right. Like,

38:23

I mean, so many of the classic

38:26

movie stars would retire when they were,

38:28

like, 50 or 60 and spend the

38:30

last 15 or 20 years of their

38:32

life not working. And if you did

38:34

work, by and large, you'd end up

38:36

being, like, TV guest star kind of

38:39

things like this. And it felt like,

38:41

you know, they're making a big deal

38:43

out of, like, we got this person,

38:45

but it does feel like they're sort

38:47

of a relic in a museum to

38:50

a certain extent. But, like, like, she

38:52

has enough legendary status her calling these

38:54

studio heads and similar people and saying

38:56

like I just worked with this kid

38:58

and he's got the goods right does

39:00

make everyone take notice And yet he

39:03

kind of struggles to pick another project

39:05

or get something else done after that.

39:07

Supposedly, he wanted to make a movie

39:09

about Thomas Crapper, The Adventure of the

39:11

Flush toilet, based on a book called

39:14

Flush with Pride, the story of Thomas

39:16

Crapper. His agent says... I'm sorry Ben,

39:18

can we pause the recording quickly just

39:20

so I can personally option the rights

39:22

of that book? If we could just

39:24

hold for five minutes. Y'all know about

39:27

Thomas Crapper. I fucking didn't. You didn't?

39:29

Guess what? I'm ready to formally announce

39:31

that I will be directing Crapper, the

39:33

Thomas Crapper story. Uh, famous. People think

39:35

that Thomas Crapper is the reason, is

39:37

like the etymology of the word crap.

39:40

Apparently that's true and

39:42

like the word crap

39:44

has existed. It's

39:46

like as like old to

39:48

mean like kind of

39:51

of You know know, whatever

39:53

like like rubbish. like millennia

39:55

or whatever creating the flushable the

39:57

flushable toilet basically

39:59

him trying to take

40:01

back the word.

40:04

Yes, maybe that was

40:06

it kids have been

40:08

mocking you my whole

40:10

life. Guess what what

40:12

I'm I'm gonna be

40:15

the one who

40:17

gets rid of crap

40:19

faster than you've

40:21

ever seen than you've ever seen

40:23

crap crap is gone. Another thing he starts working

40:25

on is is the Sugarland a film that

40:27

he will eventually make, but he's

40:29

not, we're talking late but at this

40:31

point. talking late He goes to point. and

40:33

says, can I go right? No one

40:36

wants me I go write, no one wants some

40:38

movies. some We should say he does

40:40

another segment in that first season of

40:42

that first I guess of Night Gallery. I so. He's not

40:44

mentioned to you. fact just telling you that

40:46

came later Maybe trying to understand what

40:48

this kind I'm trying to understand

40:50

what know kind of, you know, you know, he went

40:52

on on is, because he's really complaining

40:54

about about... Yeah, that wasn't until 71. 71. Oh,

40:56

and so so that's So a little

40:58

later. Okay. a He goes off and

41:01

he writes some stuff goes off and

41:03

apparently, writes some stuff. movie, like a World War

41:05

II movie. dog wrote a comedy about

41:07

the War II to see that. It was

41:09

also called comedy about He wrote something called

41:11

Ace Love to see that. It was Skies, which does

41:13

exist, and he has a story credit

41:15

on. Never seen it. Light. Funny. interesting. of the

41:18

feel like JJ texted me about this

41:20

if I had ever seen it before,

41:22

because it's like one of the like a.

41:24

It's like an adventure movie with Cliff

41:26

Robertson again, again about a pilot. don't know. I don't

41:28

know. Spielberg like gone gone out of his

41:30

way to distance himself from it. to

41:33

the extent that I had never heard

41:35

about it and told heard me about it.

41:37

Jay text me whatever the movie was. He's the

41:39

that's barely, you know, I got a

41:41

story by credit you that's how it

41:43

goes, but they had changed it by

41:45

the time they made changed it by the time they made

41:47

comes back to Universal and then he

41:49

does he segment of of Night Gallery. Some TV

41:51

shows, Welby MD, the psychiatrist, an episode of this An episode

41:53

of this show called The Name of

41:55

the Game that you've been trying to you've been trying

41:57

the thing I love. It used it used to be

41:59

on YouTube. been full it's now

42:01

seemingly gone taken down by Universal

42:03

but name of the game was

42:05

a weird sort of I think

42:07

they called a carousel show that

42:09

was this old format that used

42:11

to exist to lure more substantial

42:13

stars into doing television without the

42:15

commitment of doing 22 episode seasons

42:17

they design a show where it's

42:19

like it has three different leads

42:21

and it cycles between a couple

42:23

different cast so each of these

42:25

stars only has to do seven

42:27

or eight episodes a season right

42:29

so it's already this show that's

42:31

not an anthology but is a

42:33

little like piecemeal like that right

42:35

and then there is just this

42:37

one episode that Spielberg directed that's

42:39

ostensibly a complete standalone basically outside

42:41

of a framing device has nothing

42:43

to do with the rest of

42:45

the series and it's just a

42:47

weird dystopian future movie it is

42:49

the first feature-length thing he ever

42:51

directed it was 75 minutes long

42:53

It's called LA 2017 it rules

42:55

and I've seen it I've seen

42:57

it I saw it because it

42:59

went up on YouTube a couple

43:01

years ago and people were like

43:03

this is kind of secretly Spielberg's

43:05

first movie cool and it's a

43:07

little lost time that show just

43:09

is kind of completely forgotten it's

43:11

never been released on DVD or

43:13

streaming or rentable digitally or any

43:15

of that stuff and there was

43:17

this one YouTube video that now

43:19

Universal has taken them Of course,

43:21

he also directed the first regular

43:23

season episode of Colombo, not the

43:25

pilot, as people sometimes, you know,

43:27

the pilot had already been made,

43:29

but it's the first episode once

43:31

Colombo goes to a series, and

43:33

it's, of course, called Murder by

43:35

the Book. Similarly, 75 minutes. It's

43:37

the... Future Linkfish, but it's a

43:39

Colombo. It's TV movies that will

43:41

air within a 90-minute block, and

43:43

dual was intended to be the

43:45

same kind of thing. When he's

43:47

hired to shoot his episode of

43:49

Colombo, Oscar winning cinematographer Russell Meti,

43:52

who had shot Spartacus, and I

43:54

think was a bit of a

43:56

hard ask because he followed Qurik

43:58

on that movie, who's, Qurik famously

44:00

easy to get along with, said,

44:02

he's a kid. Does he get

44:04

a milk and cookie break? Is

44:06

the diaper truck going to interfere?

44:08

with my generator. I mean, funny.

44:10

Pretty funny. It's pretty fine. But

44:12

genuine, generally, he impresses people. When

44:14

he works on these TV shows,

44:16

he kind of just blows people

44:18

away. Peter Falk said, like, we

44:20

had some good fortune making Colombo,

44:22

like, our first episode was directed

44:24

by Stephen Spielberg, like, Stephen Spielberg,

44:26

like, obviously, not famous then, but

44:28

now you're kind of, like, dang.

44:30

David. David. Just commit a little

44:32

walk. I can't do far. Yeah,

44:34

well, he has a look. Good

44:36

luck. Yeah. I don't know why

44:38

my fock sounds like the oldest

44:40

version of Bob Dylan. The thing

44:42

he remembers. One more thing. The

44:44

thing Fock remembers is that like.

44:46

They're shooting one scene where he

44:48

approaches someone on the street. They

44:50

shoot it and he's like, where's

44:52

the camera? And Spielberg is, like,

44:54

he realizes, like, across the street

44:56

with a long lens. And he's

44:58

like, you know, that's not something

45:00

you did on television. There's this

45:02

fucking TV show, right? Tell me

45:04

to make the donuts. Spielberg considers

45:06

his best work to have been

45:08

an episode of the psychiatrist. Interesting.

45:10

It's a job though. Making these

45:12

TV shows is a job. It's

45:14

not an art form for him.

45:16

He doesn't have the passion. Obviously,

45:18

he's, you know, the stories are

45:20

more schematic. He has to work

45:22

in a tight, like schedule and

45:24

all that. He really wants to

45:26

make movies. On to dual. Richard

45:28

Matheson, famous writer. Would you call

45:30

him a famous writer? Yeah, what

45:32

else would he call? I don't

45:34

know. And what was this whole

45:36

generation of guys who were like

45:38

incredible short story writers would write

45:40

longer length things as well, but

45:42

like incredible short story writers who

45:44

went to Hollywood. Apparently the day

45:46

that JFK was assassinated, he was

45:48

golfing, and he drives home and

45:50

he gets harassed by a big

45:52

truck. Okay. And this experience. The

45:54

second most tragic thing that happened,

45:56

I say. This experience has him

45:58

right down on like the back

46:00

of an envelope, like story idea,

46:02

truck chases man on highway. But

46:04

that's how all these guys worked

46:06

where they were just like, you

46:08

just fuck and sit at the

46:10

typewriter every day and you write

46:12

a thousand pages. Which, this original

46:14

story ran in Playboy magazine. He

46:16

pitches it to, you know, TV

46:18

people and they think it's a

46:20

little too limited, not enough there.

46:22

He gives up on it, writes

46:24

it as a short story. In,

46:26

Playboy magazine. Well, I only read

46:28

Playboy for the naked pictures, so

46:30

I never noticed the article. This

46:32

is the problem. Apparently, Playboy magazine

46:34

has words in it? As someone

46:36

who I will confess, has never

46:39

really read an issue of Playboy.

46:41

Like, I know the old joke

46:43

was I read it for the

46:45

articles, right? And Playboy had genuinely

46:47

great journalism and all that. Was

46:49

it like kind of just at

46:51

the back of the magazine or

46:53

was it kind of interspersed? So

46:55

like, Ben doesn't know. When I

46:57

was like, when I was in

46:59

high school. As a penthouse guy.

47:01

I just was born after one

47:03

fucking red spanky magazines. I also

47:05

think by the time we were

47:07

growing up. Playboy was the articles

47:09

had less juice to them. I

47:11

know. Yeah. I think Playboy even

47:13

in the 90s would still have

47:15

these glitzy writers and we have

47:17

like Leonard Malm doing like serious

47:19

interviews of people and shit. When

47:21

I was in high school. Lola

47:23

Kirk, past and future guest on

47:25

this show, was like, you're a

47:27

horny boy, I'm giving you a

47:29

vintage issue of playboy for birth,

47:31

your birthday, as a present? For

47:33

birthday. For birthday. I had one

47:35

vintage issue of playboy that I

47:37

hid in my closet. That I

47:39

remember having a multi-page lainy cuzand

47:41

spread where I was like, this

47:43

is kind of weird to look

47:45

through when... My Big Fat Creek

47:47

weddings only years out

47:49

of out of theaters. But

47:51

that that was

47:53

like a 60s issue a playboy

47:55

that I would leaf through

47:57

I would leaf

47:59

through go go like,

48:01

oh, this did

48:03

actually used to

48:05

have good articles.

48:07

articles. I'm sure

48:09

it did. sure it did.

48:11

And including Richard Right.

48:13

It felt like

48:15

New Yorker with like

48:17

spreads and some

48:19

like nudity Yes. and

48:21

some so it goes shifts. Yes. Yes.

48:23

So it goes into people notice

48:25

it. people notice it. Bocco, Bocco, Bocco, Bocco, right?

48:27

Famous TV writer, writer, like, this should be

48:29

a should be a movie.

48:32

it it to the attention

48:34

of a TV producer. Universal

48:36

has a deal with ABC deal with

48:38

ABC to make, you

48:40

know, Yeah, these slots existed of just

48:42

like TV movie of of the

48:44

week and they're making tens

48:46

of TV of TV movies. Every year.

48:48

looking looking for old things

48:50

that could be remade for from

48:53

the rip from the headline

48:55

stories, short stories, original scripts

48:57

from budding writers. there are slots to fill,

48:59

there are slots to fill, made. movies

49:01

are going to get made. When

49:03

are they programmed? prime time, yeah, movie

49:05

of week, right? Like all these channels would would have

49:07

their own of of the week

49:09

slot And they'd be competitive slots, know it'd

49:11

be like one network. airs a a movie

49:13

every Monday night at 8 or

49:15

whatever they'd be be among the highest

49:17

rated things but it also was

49:19

kind of like of like a way to

49:21

way to establish a farm team. know, to like

49:24

test know, new directors out new directors

49:26

and writers and things like

49:28

that new test out new stars out

49:30

new stars, stars They had under

49:32

on on shows shows who were frustrated

49:35

being pigeonholed into one into one role.

49:37

it was like, like, oh, let you do a

49:39

TV movie. You stay under our umbrella our you

49:41

get to flex some other side of yourself.

49:43

some other side of yourself. It makes makes

49:45

its way to Spielberg his at

49:47

the time at the time, Nona, Nona Tyson,

49:49

throws a a playboy in front

49:51

of says he starts laughing laughing,

49:54

and she's like don't look at the

49:56

girls at the short story. It's right

49:58

up your alley it's right up your alley. We

50:00

should note that also at one point

50:02

David Spilberg met with David Lynch and

50:04

David Lynch told him the horizon needs

50:07

to be this way or that way

50:09

and all that stuff happened as well.

50:11

No, he- It's a two-year-old David Lynch.

50:14

Yes. Yeah. I guess he was like

50:16

25 or whatever. And he's into it.

50:18

He calls someone up. He calls someone

50:21

up the producer George Exstein. He sees

50:23

him. as he was known, Spilberg at

50:25

the time, as Shinberg's Folly, right? What

50:28

was ABC thinking or Universal thinking hiring

50:30

this, like, child to this long contract

50:32

and now he's not doing much, right?

50:35

He does, Exe, need to director, so

50:37

he's like, all right, come in for

50:39

a meeting, Spilberg shows him some of

50:42

the Colombo episode, Exteen's like, you'll do,

50:44

essentially, we need somebody, initially he's like,

50:46

can we have no dialogue? Like, can

50:49

it truly be silent? You know, at

50:51

a certain point, ABC is like, there's

50:53

not enough room for this kind of

50:56

already stuff, but you know, like no,

50:58

we can't do that. The movie might

51:00

be even cooler with no dialogue, certainly

51:02

no internal. Can I make my case?

51:05

Yes. A lot of what's added for

51:07

the theatrical cut are a lot of

51:09

the like dialogue interludes of him interacting

51:12

with other people. Right. Him calling his

51:14

wife. Yes. some of like the gas

51:16

station stops and shit like that. Obviously

51:19

not the bar scene, right? Yeah. I

51:21

feel like, and I'm happy that Spielberg

51:23

has not gone back and recut this

51:26

movie, but I'm sort of like, it

51:28

makes sense that they insisted on putting

51:30

the certain amount of voiceover internal monologue

51:33

stuff in here, because they were just

51:35

like, you cannot have this be completely

51:37

wordless. Right. In the version that has

51:40

a couple dialogue scenes added, I'm like

51:42

if you then took out the voiceover,

51:44

that's probably the perfect version of this

51:47

movie. I just think there's no... in

51:49

the voiceover and stuff that really tells

51:51

you anything you don't already know. No,

51:54

I agree with that and it's also

51:56

just because you could get why on

51:58

a writing level they were like there

52:00

needs to be some dialogue to keep

52:03

people hooked. What they couldn't have counted

52:05

for is you're dealing with perhaps the

52:07

greatest visual storyteller of his generation, a

52:10

guy who can figure out how to

52:12

convey all of this just in images

52:14

and editing. So like everything that's being

52:17

said the internal monologue, he as a...

52:19

He's 24 at this point, 23? How

52:21

old is he? When he makes dual,

52:24

the film came out early... Yeah, it'd

52:26

be like 22. 22, yeah. Right, you

52:28

could just be like, if you're fucking

52:31

Scheinberger, whoever, you're like, kid, there has

52:33

to be some dialogue in this, right?

52:35

And even just, it's airing on TV

52:38

with commercial breaks and whatever, people are

52:40

going to turn off the TV. As

52:42

you said, you're like flipping through the

52:45

channels you see, and you're like, like,

52:47

like, what the fuck is this, right?

52:49

Within that context, it makes sense. Once

52:52

you open this thing up and let

52:54

it breathe and you're like, we're gonna

52:56

play it in a theater and we

52:58

can air it out, every single thing

53:01

that's happening visually underneath the voiceover parts

53:03

completely conveys what the voiceover is saying.

53:05

Right. Yeah. I will say I agree

53:08

with you. I think that's the perfect

53:10

version. Yeah. But I would I would

53:12

say what really puts it over the

53:15

edge for me. is if there was

53:17

a moment where it frees on the

53:19

truck and then it said truck is

53:22

meanness and then it froze on the

53:24

Pontiac and it said like Pontiatic says

53:26

good is... Ben, one trillion comedy point.

53:29

Thank you. Here's another thing Ben, in

53:31

terms of just like what the ecosystem

53:33

was for this sort of like TV

53:36

movie of the week culture. Yeah. He

53:38

was given ten days to shoot this.

53:40

He went over. It was 13 days.

53:43

Right. And as a result of him

53:45

taking the extra three days... he only

53:47

had 10 days to deliver a cut

53:50

to them. Oh man. Like the turnaround

53:52

on these things, because there just was

53:54

one airing every week, was as if

53:56

it was a TV show episode. Basically.

53:59

Even though these were running as separate

54:01

productions and they had their own stop

54:03

and start and they weren't part of

54:06

the factory line of an ongoing series,

54:08

it was like, you delivered this to

54:10

us in like less than a month

54:13

for the moment we hire you. Spillberg

54:15

wants Gregory Gregory Gregory Gregory Gregory Gregory

54:17

Peck, Gregory Gregory Gregory Gregory Packery. Not

54:20

surprising. I think Spielberg knows that if

54:22

he'd gotten Peck, maybe this could have

54:24

leapt to the big screen. Certainly he

54:27

would have gotten more than 10 days.

54:29

They're not interested. It also makes sense

54:31

with his drone Crawford history that he's

54:34

starting to like strategize about. Like, I

54:36

can gain some heat from proving myself

54:38

to these legendary stars in their autumn

54:41

years. And then they'll call people for

54:43

me and yeah. They'll see that I

54:45

respect them and that I know what

54:48

I'm doing and then they'll endorse me

54:50

and whatever. Yeah. But I feel like

54:52

Weaver, Dennis Weaver, who they cast, is

54:54

perfect in them. Yeah, because you need

54:57

someone who's a little nebiscian kind of

54:59

ground down. Like if it's Gregory Peck

55:01

being like, there's God damn trucks in

55:04

my way. I'm like, no one's gonna

55:06

fuck with him. Like George C. Scott,

55:08

you know, like, Rah! Weaver's characterization is

55:11

fascinating because this is a thing that

55:13

like to its credit is not telling

55:15

you too much about this guy. And

55:18

yet Weaver's performance is really specific where

55:20

it doesn't feel like he's just a

55:22

stand-in. And yet there's certain things about

55:25

him that are a little hard to

55:27

pin down. For sure. This guy's like

55:29

a weird combination of like a little

55:32

arrogant and glib, but also kind of

55:34

like Nebishi put upon. Yeah, does this

55:36

guy have an anger thing or is

55:39

he kind of right? A little bit

55:41

of a pushover. He's like both at

55:43

the same time in oscillation, which means

55:46

that he's really... compelling to watch because

55:48

you kind of don't know how he's

55:50

going to react in any given moment.

55:52

Now Dennis Weaver it was on a

55:55

little TV chuckle gun smoke which is

55:57

the at the time, like, the longest

55:59

fucking running thing ever, right? Right. And

56:02

Simpsons is now, like, gone 20 years

56:04

past or whatever. Right. But more recently,

56:06

he had sort of had a bit

56:09

of revival on this show, McCloud, which

56:11

I have never seen, but is an

56:13

NYPD cop show where it's like? Is

56:16

that Darren McGaven? No. I don't know.

56:18

It's Dennis Weaver. He's Dennis Weaver. He's

56:20

Dennis Weaver. He's Dennis Weaver. Weaver was

56:23

McCloud. Aaron McGovern, I think the thing

56:25

you're thinking of is, I don't know,

56:27

I don't know, my camera, maybe, I

56:30

don't know. Who can say, honestly? McCloud

56:32

is, it's like, he's like an old

56:34

kind of cowboy type cop from New

56:37

Mexico, and now he's in New York.

56:39

Yes. So he's probably always like, you

56:41

know, did a cow do this? And

56:44

they're like, no, it's New York City,

56:46

baby, baby, beep, beep. I assume that's

56:48

what the vibe was. Actually, it sounds

56:50

like crime for a fucking reboot. Kind

56:53

of does. Why are people not fighting

56:55

over the MacLeod? Yeah. It's like, Modern

56:57

Day MacLeod would kill. Spielberg likes Dennis

57:00

Weaver, who's got a little juice because

57:02

of MacLeod, because he's in touch of

57:04

people, as the sort of sniveling night

57:07

watchman. Yeah, the motel attendant. Right. So

57:09

he's kind of like, maybe we can

57:11

get a little on that energy in

57:14

here. The twitchy, kind of nervous. Yeah.

57:16

Weaver says his agent called him and

57:18

said they're going to send you a

57:21

script say yes before you even read

57:23

it. Weaver was like what but then

57:25

he got the script and he was

57:28

like yep I get it but it

57:30

was hard to shoot this movie for

57:32

him because it's all him driving and

57:35

very little dialogue. So just bears repeating

57:37

and it's a lot of him going

57:39

like what the fuck should I get

57:42

over? David's doing an incredible performance right

57:44

now. It just bears repeating, I know

57:46

everyone listening probably knows this, but the

57:48

real Grande line between television and film

57:51

was so fucking thick at this point.

57:53

Right. Like it was just in terms

57:55

of... like the class and esteem associated

57:58

with the two and especially for any

58:00

actor you really had to be strategic

58:02

in these moves of like which one

58:05

are you right if people started in

58:07

film and then went to TV it'd

58:09

be hard for them to make their

58:12

way back you know and if you're

58:14

a guy who is like doing smaller

58:16

parts in film but then became a

58:19

leading man on TV you know it's

58:21

like is doing a TV movie doubling

58:23

down all this shit I don't know

58:26

it's a pretty peacock world Thank you.

58:28

That's an easier way of putting it.

58:30

They look at a lot of cars.

58:33

Casting the cars is kind of the

58:35

biggest thing they have to do. 71

58:37

Plymouth Valiant and a 1951 Peterbuilt for

58:40

the truck. And they kind of customized

58:42

the truck, I think, to make it

58:44

look a little scarier. You know, they,

58:46

it's all crutted up with paint. I

58:49

was going to say, by customizing, do

58:51

you mean they just threw dirt on

58:53

it? They put bugs all over the

58:56

windshield. uh... some tanks on the door

58:58

i think to make it kind of

59:00

have more of a face you know

59:03

uh... and so they wanted it to

59:05

look like a monster and uh... this

59:07

truck looks perfect it looks incredible i

59:10

don't like that trucks vibe i hate

59:12

it and it says like flammable on

59:14

it or whatever and you're like yeah

59:17

yeah uh... i'd this is conjecture on

59:19

my part i admit this uh... dense

59:21

wevers the star of a great twilight

59:24

zone episode which one it's called shadow

59:26

play Oh sure, it's a guy trying

59:28

to avoid the electric chair. Right. And

59:31

just knowing how how influential Twilight Zone

59:33

was for Spielberg and Weavers and kind

59:35

of a similar position in that, a

59:38

guy who's trying to like figure out

59:40

his way out of a seeming inevitability

59:42

of death, you know, I could see

59:44

that also being another thing that factored

59:47

into the soup for him. David

59:50

yes, I just heard something mind-blowing what

59:52

my mind is blown What's going on

59:54

Netflix have you heard of them? Yeah,

59:57

of course. We have more than 18

59:59

10,000 titles globally. Oh, that's, oh, it's

1:00:01

impressive. Oh my God. Wait, but what?

1:00:03

Only 6,000 of those are available in

1:00:05

the US. Ah, you're missing out on

1:00:07

all those shows, Griffin. This is the

1:00:09

problem. The overseas shows. They're all kind

1:00:11

of hidden. Unless? Unless? You use Express

1:00:13

VPN. Yes. Netflix, for example, hides content

1:00:15

from you based on your location. All

1:00:17

the streamers do. Mm-hmm. Let's you change

1:00:20

your online location. So you can control

1:00:22

where you want Netflix to think you're

1:00:24

located. Look, I understand some frustration. Sometimes

1:00:26

people listen to this show. We go

1:00:28

through careers in order. We have a

1:00:30

very set schedule. There's a movie. You

1:00:32

see it's on the streaming service you

1:00:34

have. You go, great. That episode's coming

1:00:36

up in six weeks. I'll watch it

1:00:38

then. And you come back six weeks

1:00:41

later, it's been pulled down. Where to

1:00:43

go? Where to go? What can I

1:00:45

find it. What can I find it.

1:00:47

Well, can I find it. Well, can

1:00:49

I find it. Well, sometimes that's the

1:00:51

answer. Well, sometimes that's the answer. Sometimes

1:00:53

they're hiding the movie and hungry. Netflix

1:00:55

has servers in over 100 countries, so

1:00:57

you can gain access to thousands of

1:00:59

new shows, never run out of stuff

1:01:01

to watch, if you use a VPN,

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like Express VPN. This works with Disney

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Plus, BPCI player and more. You fire

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reviewers like CNet and the Virgin Express

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VP. And also keeps you private and

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secure by reroading all your traffic through

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an encrypted tunnel. We tend to focus

1:01:31

on the, just like Coraline's tunnel. No,

1:01:33

we tend to focus on the, no,

1:01:35

we tend to focus on the streaming

1:01:37

benefits because that's what, you know. But

1:01:39

it's security. It's security as well. And

1:01:41

sometimes, look, maybe you're traveling overseas, you

1:01:43

want to watch your favorite show, but

1:01:45

that streaming streaming streaming service isn't available

1:01:48

in the country, and available in the

1:01:50

country, and then you can't, and then

1:01:52

you can pretend you're back home. Have

1:01:54

you watched anything, Griffin? Do you have

1:01:56

any examples? One to two maybe? Yeah,

1:01:58

look, I don't want to, I don't

1:02:00

want to spoil, but our next mini

1:02:02

series has a director. Whose stuff is

1:02:04

really hard to find? Several films are

1:02:06

just weirdly gone, not on. any streaming

1:02:08

service not rentable legally through digital platform.

1:02:11

Interesting. And then suddenly I'm going like,

1:02:13

oh well, Disney Plus and Belarus is

1:02:15

looking pretty nice about now. That is

1:02:17

fascinating. Yes, okay, so it will be

1:02:19

expressly useful for Expressly. Expressly useful. Listen,

1:02:21

here's what I think. I think everyone

1:02:23

should be smart. Stop paying full price

1:02:25

for streaming services and only getting access

1:02:27

to a fraction of their content. What

1:02:29

you should do is get your money's

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worth at Express VPN. don't forget to

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use our link that's express vp n.com/check

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all you have to do is you

1:02:42

open it you select your country you

1:02:44

tap one button to connect you refresh

1:02:46

Netflix or whatever and then that's how

1:02:48

it works that's how it works it's

1:02:50

great David

1:03:03

yeah this episode brought to you

1:03:05

by movie we love it it's

1:03:07

a curated streaming service dedicated to

1:03:09

elevating great cinema from around the

1:03:11

globe from iconic directors to emerging

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o tours there is always something

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new to discover with movie each

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and every film is hand-selected so

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you can explore the best of

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cinema streaming anytime anywhere but here's

1:03:24

what I really love about movie

1:03:26

what David they're invested in the

1:03:28

culture they don't just advertise on

1:03:30

podcasts And they don't just stream

1:03:33

movies, they put things in theaters,

1:03:35

they publish magazines, and they put

1:03:37

out checks notes here. Podcast? And

1:03:39

I'm saying, they are putting their

1:03:41

money where their mouth is by

1:03:43

covering, well, on their award-winning movie

1:03:45

podcast. The movie podcast is starting

1:03:48

a new season, season seven. Box

1:03:50

Office Poison. It's gonna tell the

1:03:52

story of six films that were

1:03:54

notorious financial disasters, but have come

1:03:56

to be celebrated as visionary. saying

1:03:58

it was fancy. Yeah, no, it

1:04:00

was very fancy. It's based on

1:04:03

the... Oh, Tim Ruby. Yeah, well,

1:04:05

why don't you go ahead, sir?

1:04:07

Why, they were mutuals on Twitter.

1:04:09

Tim Roby, the film critic for

1:04:11

the telegraph in the UK, he

1:04:13

wrote a book called Box Office

1:04:15

Poison, so we got host, Rico,

1:04:17

Gagliano, using his research to, uh,

1:04:20

to tell some wild stories about

1:04:22

these films. And they're rise and

1:04:24

they're fall and they're rise what

1:04:26

are the movies? Well, it's a

1:04:28

good list It's some movies. We've

1:04:30

covered on this show and some

1:04:32

favorite of ours that we have

1:04:35

not covered sorcerer We will cover

1:04:37

one day baby pig in the

1:04:39

city we have covered Sylvia Scarlet

1:04:41

the hot sucker proxy We'll probably

1:04:43

one of my all-time favorite movies.

1:04:45

I know one of my all-time

1:04:47

favorite movies I think we'll get

1:04:50

there and speed racer covered it

1:04:52

Guess include master cinematographer Roger Roger

1:04:54

James Cromwell legendary screenwriter Hualin Green?

1:04:56

Okay. SFX pioneer John Gaita? Love

1:04:58

that guy. Critic and podcaster Kerina

1:05:00

Longworth? We're planning the show. Past

1:05:02

and future guests? Movie star Rebecca

1:05:04

Hall. He's still my heart. Yeah.

1:05:07

UK comic genius Jamie Demetru. He's

1:05:09

all over the place. And Tim

1:05:11

Roby himself. Very good. Six episodes

1:05:13

released weekly on Thursdays from November

1:05:15

14 until December 19. And don't

1:05:17

forget to stream great movies on

1:05:19

movie. Like Andrew Arnold's bird now

1:05:22

streaming on movie. Now they they

1:05:24

phrased it here as the long-awaited

1:05:26

return to fiction filmmaking. It's been

1:05:28

eight years. And the last film

1:05:30

she made scripted feature-length film. Yeah.

1:05:32

She made was your favorite film

1:05:34

that year? 2016 blankied David Sims

1:05:37

winner American Honey best picture for

1:05:39

me. Yeah. Great movie. She also

1:05:41

made fish tank which I feel

1:05:43

like a lot of people seen.

1:05:45

She made red road. She made

1:05:47

weathering heights. And her new movie

1:05:49

is Bird, it's a tender and

1:05:52

compelling and beautifully surprising coming-of-age fable

1:05:54

about life in the fringes of

1:05:56

contemporary society. Kind of her strong

1:05:58

suit. That's absolutely right. Yes, she

1:06:00

finds very interesting ways to explore

1:06:02

right communities. you might not see

1:06:04

on film as often. You know

1:06:06

what's another thing I love about

1:06:09

movie? They, in their copy, for

1:06:11

the first time, have answered for

1:06:13

me definitively, how to pronounce the

1:06:15

name of the star. Go ahead.

1:06:17

The film, with its buzzy cast,

1:06:19

features Barry Hewin. That's right. Don't

1:06:21

say the G. I know from

1:06:24

Saltburn or... I mean... Friends Vregowski?

1:06:26

Oh sure. Anyway, but yes, and

1:06:28

then you've got Art House favorite

1:06:30

French... Blagowski? Yes. Friends Ragowski, from

1:06:32

Passages and Transit? On Dean? Great

1:06:34

movies. One of my favorite movies

1:06:36

of the last couple of years.

1:06:39

And then plus the Revellates for

1:06:41

a central performance from a newcomer,

1:06:43

Nakaya Adams. Another thing Andrew Arnold

1:06:45

has quite a track. Right. Latest

1:06:47

in a series of notable debut

1:06:49

performances from Arnold. You got a

1:06:51

canon of formidable female characters buying

1:06:54

for freedom from oppressive systems. You

1:06:56

know, you can red road, of

1:06:58

course you had. Kate Dickey. Mm.

1:07:00

No, sorry. Well, yeah, Red Road

1:07:02

was Kate Dickey. That wasn't a

1:07:04

discovery. No, that was it. But

1:07:06

in Fish Tank, you had, um,

1:07:08

Katie Jarvis, and, uh, in American

1:07:11

Honey, you had, uh... Sasha Lynn.

1:07:13

And she's still, you know, she's

1:07:15

still crushing it, seeing Sasha Lane

1:07:17

all over the place. New York

1:07:19

Times called it a beautifully moving,

1:07:21

coming of age story. Little White

1:07:23

Lies said it's a magical, energetic,

1:07:26

energetic, energetic marvels. She's the best

1:07:28

and the movie is really really

1:07:30

worth seeing and it's really great

1:07:32

to have a new Andrea Arnold

1:07:34

movie out there bird is streaming

1:07:36

now Exclusively on movie Additionally you

1:07:38

want to stream some great films

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at home You can try movie

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check that's mupi.com/blank check for a

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month of great cinema for free

1:07:49

bird bird So

1:07:54

they make dual. It's feel very

1:07:56

consistent. you get

1:07:58

outside, they want

1:08:00

it to do do

1:08:02

soundstage yeah and it's a big

1:08:04

fight and like he went a big fight.

1:08:07

as you say three days over schedule

1:08:09

right which is maybe the over schedule,

1:08:11

as you say, three days over

1:08:13

schedule. over which is maybe the equivalent

1:08:15

of going three weeks over schedule

1:08:18

on future film how could you film. on a

1:08:20

could you do this on a look

1:08:22

would be it would be it would would be like

1:08:24

a janky TV movie, yes. but there's like look

1:08:26

I love Twilight Zone. Zone And a

1:08:28

lot of Twilight Zone episodes are very ambitious.

1:08:30

are very ambitious in terms of what

1:08:32

aiming to to depict is a show that is

1:08:35

a show that didn't have like

1:08:37

a home base kind of kind of rotation

1:08:39

of sets it could reuse. like a great

1:08:41

hitchhiker hitchhiker episode of Twilight Zone that

1:08:43

all takes place on the road

1:08:45

and there's very little there's very little like

1:08:47

footage, footage most of it is it is a close

1:08:49

-up of an actor in front of a

1:08:51

rear projection. front of a rear projection screen

1:08:54

a picture car. You you know? Sure. They're like,

1:08:56

you could see how they were just

1:08:58

like, like, look, don't this. This isn't

1:09:00

a real movie. Like Spielberg fighting

1:09:03

to make this. this 50% more of a more

1:09:05

of a movie than they want it to be? in

1:09:07

him over in him over which

1:09:09

on the product which then commits them

1:09:11

to be like film some some more and

1:09:13

make this even more of a movie. Right. Yeah. He's

1:09:15

he's doing lots of master shots,

1:09:17

less he says, you know, He says, you

1:09:20

know, he's trying to, you know,

1:09:22

be feel make it feel more

1:09:24

cinematic. There's like camera placements in this. in

1:09:26

this. the, he's the king of

1:09:28

blocking. he's the But, but beyond that Yeah.

1:09:30

of blocking, obviously, right? It is

1:09:32

like the weird. right? It

1:09:34

of like weird, kind of just this guy

1:09:36

had. They call him? natural

1:09:38

skill of guy had. They call him?

1:09:40

The king of him the king of blocking.

1:09:43

No, I was gonna say beyond

1:09:45

him just being great at blocking

1:09:47

great at where you're like. Oh you're

1:09:49

like oh the to the mounted to the grill

1:09:51

this sort of like side profile

1:09:53

shot of the truck with the car the

1:09:55

car behind it and shit like

1:09:57

that where you're just like on

1:09:59

a a movie schedule, but resources crew, you

1:10:01

choosing to do a setup like that

1:10:03

is like you're gonna have to sacrifice

1:10:05

in exchange for putting your foot down

1:10:08

and be like I want this shot,

1:10:10

I want a crane shot, you know?

1:10:12

Like in exchange for doing that, the

1:10:14

payoff is you get fewer set up

1:10:16

somewhere else or fewer takes of each

1:10:19

setup or whatever it is, but the

1:10:21

guy just like he had the fucking

1:10:23

vision. But he shows the script, the

1:10:25

film to ABC and they're mad. that

1:10:28

the truck doesn't blow up because it

1:10:30

says planable, right, on the truck. And

1:10:32

they think about shooting a new ending

1:10:34

that's more explosive. But no, Spielberg had

1:10:36

said, like, I want more of like

1:10:39

a slow death where the truck kind

1:10:41

of suffers and basically kind of like

1:10:43

bleeds out. I mean, it is an

1:10:45

incredible shot. Exactly. And then Dool comes

1:10:48

out. Oh, it's also got a really

1:10:50

cool score. Obviously, Pre-John Williams for him,

1:10:52

but Billy Goldenberg, sort of this like

1:10:54

Bernard Herman, you know, Knock Offie kind

1:10:56

of score. Yeah, but I mean, yeah,

1:10:59

John Williams starts on Sugar Land and

1:11:01

then is his guy, save for five

1:11:03

movies. Yeah, save for just a couple

1:11:05

times. Yeah. Dual gets rave reviews. average

1:11:08

ratings. Richard Matheson says he was flabbergasted

1:11:10

by how good it was. And George

1:11:12

Lucas has this story of he was

1:11:14

at a party at Francis Ford Copeland's

1:11:16

house. He'd met Steven Spielberg maybe, but

1:11:19

they didn't know each other that well

1:11:21

yet. And he's like the movies on

1:11:23

that movie he made. And they're watching

1:11:25

it and then like at this party,

1:11:28

everyone starts to like lock in on

1:11:30

the movie. Like instead of just checking

1:11:32

in with it, like everyone just sits

1:11:34

down and watches it because they were

1:11:36

like... This is really fucking good. Yeah,

1:11:39

I mean look I'm gonna I'm gonna

1:11:41

throw out a take here. Go ahead.

1:11:43

This isn't a perfect film, right? Yeah

1:11:45

in its best sequences It is just

1:11:48

like astonishing. Agreed. I mean, which is

1:11:50

basically all. And not just its loudest

1:11:52

sequences, right? But it's mostly when you're

1:11:54

on the road. But some of the

1:11:56

construction of some of the sequences, you're

1:11:59

just like, how the fuck is this

1:12:01

guy's first movie? Not only is it

1:12:03

just the level of skill, but you're

1:12:05

like, most people, it takes two decades

1:12:08

to cross the arc of developing the

1:12:10

skill, then they get ostentatious with their

1:12:12

craft, and then they get ostentatacious with

1:12:14

their craft. a lot of people it

1:12:16

takes over 10 years to do that

1:12:19

and the first move he already has

1:12:21

this confidence of like an old master

1:12:23

my big take is I think you

1:12:25

watch this and in the construction of

1:12:27

the big showcase moments the big set

1:12:30

pieces the big sequences whatever I would

1:12:32

contend like he arrived fully formed as

1:12:34

an action filmmaker he has better action

1:12:36

sequences later in his career but I'd

1:12:39

argue those are largely a product of

1:12:41

He knows how to build a better

1:12:43

movie around those sequences. He has better

1:12:45

resources and collaborators. He has better tools

1:12:47

to play with and more time and

1:12:50

whatever. I don't actually think his basic

1:12:52

craft and understanding of how to put

1:12:54

images together to create tension and excitement.

1:12:56

Right. evolves past this like I think

1:12:59

right you're basically like he was fully

1:13:01

formed he's as good then as he

1:13:03

was now it was basically everything else

1:13:05

rose to his level and I think

1:13:07

he says like he watches dual all

1:13:10

the time and is kind of like

1:13:12

yeah I fucking crushed it he now

1:13:14

like studies dual trying to be like

1:13:16

how did I do here right exactly

1:13:19

because I think it was also in

1:13:21

such a state of panic where he's

1:13:23

has to put this together so quickly

1:13:25

with such limited resources, but also he

1:13:27

knows like this is his big chance

1:13:30

to show himself. Yeah. That this movie

1:13:32

almost comes out of like just like

1:13:34

a flow state for him. Yeah. As

1:13:36

much as it was meticulously storyboarded and

1:13:39

everything, he was just like, I just

1:13:41

knew exactly how I had to make

1:13:43

it. And He just

1:13:45

kind of like put

1:13:47

his foot down

1:13:50

and got it done

1:13:52

and and he

1:13:54

proved his fucking point

1:13:56

Like it totally

1:13:59

worked in the way.

1:14:01

He needed it

1:14:03

to yeah, it's a

1:14:05

great movie. I

1:14:07

saw dual on TV

1:14:10

I think on

1:14:12

the BBC the beat

1:14:17

When I was 14 or 15

1:14:19

years old and I had

1:14:21

my Empire magazine Spielberg edition I'm

1:14:23

fire magazine put out a

1:14:25

special Steven Spielberg edition once that

1:14:27

had all of his Movies

1:14:30

like with two pages devoted to them, you

1:14:32

know, whatever and so that's probably when I first

1:14:34

learned about dual Did you know like Before

1:14:37

ET or whatever, you know, he made

1:14:39

this TV movie and I remember watching

1:14:41

it like seeing in the listings being

1:14:43

like I want To watch it. I'm

1:14:45

a young cinephile Yeah, and then watching

1:14:47

it being like that rocked and feeling

1:14:50

really proud of myself for like having

1:14:52

done that My parents did not like

1:14:54

Steven Spielberg They were Newman's fucking up

1:14:56

again. I know In the 90s, I

1:14:58

think they were that that was a

1:15:00

very popular time for people to kind

1:15:02

of turn against Spielberg Yeah, 100 %

1:15:04

of course. No, once he wins the

1:15:06

Oscar for Schindler Especially I think people

1:15:08

are like it's like when the Red

1:15:10

Sox won the World Series where people

1:15:12

like all right Can I stop hearing

1:15:14

about you know? you know, like Right

1:15:16

and she used to be good, but

1:15:18

now he's so maudlin and so manipulative

1:15:20

there was sort of a feeling of

1:15:23

like look we can't deny Schindler, but

1:15:25

Everything else he's made in the last

1:15:27

10 years is a failure to recapture

1:15:29

how good the first 10 years were

1:15:31

right And they were sort of like,

1:15:33

you know by mid 90s They're like

1:15:35

Spielberg's washed but I remember within that

1:15:37

despite being a child who was shown

1:15:39

ET and close encounters very young By

1:15:41

my mother as like these are important

1:15:43

and having like a massive effect on

1:15:45

me both. I Remember saying to me,

1:15:47

you know, which one is good his

1:15:49

first movie sure when she was in

1:15:51

her sort of like Spielberg Sox phase

1:15:53

and because she grew up in Europe

1:15:56

humble bread She I think she must

1:15:58

have seen dual in theaters presented

1:16:00

as a movie, a a properly. Well, we've

1:16:02

Well, we've already mentioned TV

1:16:04

didn't exist. TV didn't exist.

1:16:06

Right. exist. Right. So yeah, I remember

1:16:08

I remember her telling me about it

1:16:11

fairly young and just describing the

1:16:13

premise in the the way that kind of

1:16:15

excited me is like, wait, that's and that's

1:16:17

the whole movie? was like, yeah, it's just just

1:16:19

a nervous guy and this truck starts

1:16:21

following him. And I'm like, I'm like, don't

1:16:23

know. know. who's driving the truck, you

1:16:25

don't know. You It's just this guy going

1:16:27

crazy and this truck coming after him and

1:16:29

there's no explanation for it. And it's after So

1:16:31

I think, yeah, I probably rented on VHS

1:16:34

when I was. And it's like 10

1:16:36

or 12 or something? yeah, I probably rolls.

1:16:38

Ben, did you like it? 10

1:16:40

or 12 so impressive. it

1:16:42

rolls. Ben, did you like it?

1:16:44

It's so impressive how a

1:16:46

movie? a movie. Yeah. and how how much

1:16:48

you're on the edge of your

1:16:50

seat. Yes. But But I think the first

1:16:52

point especially, but it's like, it

1:16:54

doesn't feel like a TV movie TV movie

1:16:56

really. Partly because the limited scale makes

1:16:59

sense. So you're not seeing. it Yeah.

1:17:01

a budget against a budget it can't.

1:17:03

know mean? like, it makes sense for it to

1:17:05

be fairly stripped down. Well, there's a

1:17:07

focus to the story, but then he's

1:17:09

pushing to expand the scale expand the And

1:17:11

he does. And he does. And he does. All

1:17:14

of my all of my

1:17:16

problems with it are just when

1:17:18

it's him in various know,

1:17:20

kind of futzing around in various locations. it's

1:17:22

that I think those parts are bad. kind

1:17:24

It's just the only time you kind

1:17:26

of feel the movie trying to fill out.

1:17:28

Yeah, you know, you know, like the Yes,

1:17:31

know, in the confrontation in the

1:17:33

diner. Yeah. With the guy he a diner, right? the trucker.

1:17:35

the guy he thinks is the trucker. It's just

1:17:37

one of those scenes 10 you're like, 10 seconds and

1:17:39

you're like, well, this isn't going to be the guy.

1:17:41

guy. Sure. We're We're halfway into the movie. He's not going

1:17:43

to like go face -to -face with the truck driver. the

1:17:45

truck driver. Yeah. And it just kind of goes on for

1:17:47

like a few minutes of him being like, him being like,

1:17:49

can you cut it out? And the guy's like,

1:17:51

what are you talking about? the guy's like, what are you

1:17:53

talking about? Hey, but the chunk of that

1:17:55

sequence. The chunk of that him with him

1:17:57

walking in and recognizing one of

1:18:00

these guys must be the guy and

1:18:02

there's basically five stellar minutes of just

1:18:04

this guy looking at people sizing them

1:18:06

up visually weighing the pros and cons

1:18:09

of it could be this guy it

1:18:11

couldn't be this guy looking at their

1:18:13

boots looking at their boots I think

1:18:15

that's a really interesting way of like

1:18:18

yeah how can I like read into

1:18:20

a person through like yeah the the

1:18:22

way they have selected their boots, what

1:18:25

color it is, how dirty it is.

1:18:27

And then he's running through the mental

1:18:29

exercise of approaching each of these guys

1:18:31

and confronting them and imagining how they'd

1:18:34

react. Like all of that stuff is

1:18:36

fucking incredible. And you have to think

1:18:38

also in the theatrical cut Ben, that's

1:18:41

like the first sequence where he's talking

1:18:43

at length. Yeah. You know, like because

1:18:45

the opening, which I think is really

1:18:47

good, the opening credit sequence in the

1:18:50

theatrical cut of the POV of the

1:18:52

POV of the car. That is all

1:18:54

added. That was not part of the

1:18:57

original TV broadcast, and I think is

1:18:59

just like really immersive Sort of dropping

1:19:01

you into the world as much as

1:19:03

that's the POV of his car It's

1:19:06

an interesting way to start in the

1:19:08

perspective of a car on the road

1:19:10

and get you into the headspace of

1:19:13

a road movie and all of that

1:19:15

But then like the phone conversation with

1:19:17

the wife is added for the theatrical

1:19:19

like a lot of that early stuff

1:19:22

is added so the length of that

1:19:24

scene and how long it goes on

1:19:26

makes a little more sense if you

1:19:29

think if you think You're watching a

1:19:31

broadcast that's been going on for 30

1:19:33

minutes and this is the first time

1:19:35

that the movie is kind of stopping

1:19:38

long enough to like settle you in?

1:19:40

The wife call I don't need. I

1:19:42

definitely don't need that. I everything the

1:19:45

less the better right like I don't

1:19:47

want to know who's driving the truck

1:19:49

I just don't think that stuff I

1:19:51

think it's bad to its credit it's

1:19:54

not too overstated it's not you can

1:19:56

imagine the worst they had a fight

1:19:58

or something well the fight is about

1:20:01

like him not standing up enough it's

1:20:03

like this guy's kind of just a

1:20:05

drip it's also this there's stakes kind

1:20:07

of in that he needs to be

1:20:10

home in time because his pain parents

1:20:12

are due at the house for dinner.

1:20:14

So he's like expected to be home

1:20:17

and he already has had a fight

1:20:19

with his wife. I think his reaction

1:20:21

to all this stuff characterizes him well

1:20:23

like it's not like I don't think

1:20:26

it's valuable like backstory shit or like

1:20:28

table setting in that way But I

1:20:30

do think you get a lot from

1:20:33

seeing him react to some other shit

1:20:35

before the truck really enters the picture

1:20:37

of just like this guy's just kind

1:20:39

of annoying. He's not a bad guy.

1:20:42

I think it's like this guy didn't

1:20:44

like This isn't the manifestation of some

1:20:46

curse on him. This isn't his come-up-ins.

1:20:48

He didn't run over a little toy

1:20:51

truck. Right? Like Matheson wrote a lot

1:20:53

of Twilight Zone, and that's what differentiates

1:20:55

this from a Twilight Zone or something

1:20:58

like that. That there isn't the supernatural

1:21:00

aspect to it. This isn't like a

1:21:02

cosmic balancing. It's more just giving you

1:21:04

a sense of why this guy is

1:21:07

particularly ill-equipped to deal with a situation

1:21:09

like this. His personality defects are like

1:21:11

a perfect stew to completely fall apart

1:21:14

when face-to-face with this. Right. It's scary

1:21:16

because of the random act of violence,

1:21:18

sure, aspect to it. But also that

1:21:20

it's like meaningless. That's the scariest thing.

1:21:23

Beyond that as a driver. And you're

1:21:25

a driver too bad. Griffin's not a

1:21:27

driver. Depatable. Just the weird. You're driving

1:21:30

on the highway life. Yeah, and I

1:21:32

drive the conversation. That's right. And we're

1:21:34

all kind of surfing the information superhighway.

1:21:36

This is true. Sometimes I wish they'd

1:21:39

put a speed limit on that thing.

1:21:41

You know what I'm saying? Right. That's

1:21:43

not right. Maybe do some paving. I

1:21:46

cite that as proof that I'm a

1:21:48

surfer, not a driver. It is weird

1:21:50

that right, they're like, we're gonna call

1:21:52

it the web, the spider web. Yeah.

1:21:55

And do you surf it? Why do

1:21:57

you surf? It doesn't matter. Do you,

1:21:59

if you said surf the web to

1:22:02

anyone under the age of 20? they'd

1:22:04

be flummoxed? Is that like? I think

1:22:06

it would be like me being like,

1:22:08

oh hello my baby! It's just like

1:22:11

they'd be like, I guess I know

1:22:13

what that is, but you sound like

1:22:15

an old-timey man on a penny bicycle.

1:22:18

I wonder if they wouldn't even know

1:22:20

what it was. Maybe not. And I'm

1:22:22

like that was the entire way that

1:22:24

the internet was talked about for 25

1:22:27

years. The web. Like even that if

1:22:29

I was like, oh, did you find

1:22:31

it on the web? People say web

1:22:34

3.0 though. Yeah, you're right. That term's

1:22:36

thrown around enough that I think people

1:22:38

know. Now if I'm saying it to

1:22:40

the good Madame, she would know. Madame.

1:22:43

Yeah, she would know. And we should

1:22:45

of course acknowledge that her web connects

1:22:47

us all. And sometimes I do be

1:22:50

surfing it. My red goggles. Is there

1:22:52

Madam Web 2 this year? Madam Web

1:22:54

2.0? Yeah, can they just... I mean,

1:22:56

first of all, the title's right there

1:22:59

for the taking. I'd say, look, we're

1:23:01

recording this episode in November, it will

1:23:03

come out in January. I would say

1:23:06

the green load on Madam Web 2.0

1:23:08

largely depends on whether or not it

1:23:10

gets the best picture nomination. We're all

1:23:12

in November predicting it will. We're all

1:23:15

assuming, right, it'll squeeze in there. But

1:23:17

by the time it comes out in

1:23:19

January, who knows how the fades have

1:23:22

the fades have changed. Right. Maybe like

1:23:24

more than 10 films actually were released

1:23:26

in 2024, that would hurt it. If

1:23:28

it turns out that there are more

1:23:31

than 10 movies eligible. Sony's crossing their

1:23:33

fingers that the year is going to

1:23:35

close out at 9. Maybe one of

1:23:37

those years no one releases any movies.

1:23:40

No, I think look, if I can

1:23:42

be fair. And maybe I'll sound foolish

1:23:44

here. I'm making a bold prediction about

1:23:47

the future. As far as I'm concerned,

1:23:49

Sony has one of the 10 spots

1:23:51

reserved. I think whether or not Madame

1:23:53

Webb makes it in is largely dependent

1:23:56

on the response to Craven. Right, if

1:23:58

the trap is set. One of the

1:24:00

five greatest trap artists in history. How

1:24:03

humidity? So... As a driver, that was

1:24:05

my point, right? There is a sort

1:24:07

of, you know, like there's the kind

1:24:09

of like rules of the road, right?

1:24:12

You know, and then when someone starts

1:24:14

being agro, or even just like crosses

1:24:16

in front of you, you know, it

1:24:19

cuts you off in a weird way,

1:24:21

maybe they don't even mean to be

1:24:23

agro, but they're just doing whatever they're

1:24:25

doing. It is kind of fundamentally creepier

1:24:28

than only, because you can't talk to

1:24:30

them, right? You can beep your horn

1:24:32

and you can. and like shake your

1:24:35

fist out the window or whatever. But

1:24:37

like, you do start, if someone's being

1:24:39

weird on the road, that immediate spiral

1:24:41

of thoughts of like, what's going on

1:24:44

with this car or truck or whatever.

1:24:46

And trucks are scary. Driving with a

1:24:48

truck is scary. If there's some big

1:24:51

ass truck on the highway, I wanna

1:24:53

get away from it. I don't wanna

1:24:55

be near those things. Can I contribute

1:24:57

some non-driver's thoughts to this conversation? Yes.

1:25:00

Everything you just said. are high up

1:25:02

on the list all of them high

1:25:04

up reasons for why I am terrified

1:25:07

at the idea of driving yes and

1:25:09

I wonder how much seeing this movie

1:25:11

to young age also contributed to that

1:25:13

I don't think it was the formation

1:25:16

of that but like this movie just

1:25:18

depicts 10 things I think about a

1:25:20

lot as like why would I ever

1:25:23

do that yeah I grew up in

1:25:25

the most, I think it's, yeah, the

1:25:27

most densely populated state. New Jersey is

1:25:29

a very densely populated garden state. It's

1:25:32

really, you know, major car culture, lots

1:25:34

of traffic, lots of road rage. Growing

1:25:36

up, my dad warned me, if someone

1:25:39

is. Getting really crazy and and out

1:25:41

of sorts do not fuck around don't

1:25:43

engage or just deescalate or get out

1:25:45

of there or whatever and there's so

1:25:48

many of those stories too of You

1:25:50

know a guy pulls a gun or

1:25:52

a knife on someone You know when

1:25:55

they both pull off the the road

1:25:57

and and engage each other For me,

1:25:59

it's like I go through the tall

1:26:01

and tunnel, I'm smoking my cigar, and

1:26:04

it's like the factories, and then we're

1:26:06

in Newark, and there's like Pizza Land,

1:26:08

right? And then it sort of starts

1:26:11

to get more and more suburban. This

1:26:13

happens after you woke up this morning?

1:26:15

Yeah, and then I go up my

1:26:17

driveway. Got yourself a gun. And it's

1:26:20

kind of like this metaphor for like,

1:26:22

you know, how the times they are

1:26:24

changing, even in like the modern crime

1:26:26

world. I have it. It exists, I

1:26:29

think it's still there. I've been to

1:26:31

the strip club. You've been to the

1:26:33

bottom bank, the bing. Did you disrespect

1:26:36

the bing? I would never. Good, okay,

1:26:38

good. I would never, David. The thing

1:26:40

you said about having this sort of

1:26:42

like emotional interaction, this visceral interaction with

1:26:45

another vehicle, but the person being kind

1:26:47

of anonymous, right? It's like so much

1:26:49

of the road rage thing of like

1:26:52

if you pull up to someone to

1:26:54

be equidistant to them you want to

1:26:56

fucking yell at them quickly or like

1:26:58

flash on the bird. Part of that

1:27:01

I think is the idea of being

1:27:03

able to humanize them and being like

1:27:05

I'm angry at you a person. I

1:27:08

need you to be a person. It

1:27:10

is what is so evocative in this

1:27:12

movie and I feel like Spielberg has

1:27:14

said the thing he locked into when

1:27:17

he read the story after quickly leaving

1:27:19

over some pictures of pictures of boobs

1:27:21

was that it's like fear of the

1:27:24

unknown. And the thing, I think one

1:27:26

of the smartest decisions this movie makes

1:27:28

is like, there's a certain logic to

1:27:30

the idea of, maybe you don't show

1:27:33

any part of the driver at all,

1:27:35

because it's what, is the scariest thing

1:27:37

having no glimpse of the person. Right,

1:27:40

it's just this machine. But he will

1:27:42

give you these shots that the Dennis

1:27:44

Weaver character wouldn't be able to see

1:27:46

from inside, you know, the cab of

1:27:49

the truck. Right. of his foot of

1:27:51

his arm you know of his hand

1:27:53

on the wheel it's always sort of

1:27:56

fragmented but it's like clear shots from

1:27:58

almost the driver's POV and I feel

1:28:00

like you need to do that because

1:28:02

the movie needs to underline like This

1:28:05

is not supernatural. This is not like

1:28:07

a monster. This is just some guy.

1:28:09

And that's what makes it even scarier

1:28:12

is his His motivations are inscrutable. They

1:28:14

are in young inscrutable unknowable. They are

1:28:16

fundamentally unknowable. There is no rhyme or

1:28:18

reason to this is doing this for

1:28:21

sport. Is he insane? Is there some

1:28:23

backstory? You don't know what it doesn't

1:28:25

fucking matter You're just placed in this

1:28:28

guy's reality, which is why the fuck

1:28:30

is this happening? And I don't even

1:28:32

really have time to consider that because

1:28:34

I'm just trying to survive. But it's

1:28:37

easy to figure out, or to start

1:28:39

spiraling over like, well, is it that

1:28:41

I kind of passed him and hung

1:28:44

my horn at him being a jerk?

1:28:46

Is it that I'm this, you know,

1:28:48

whatever, city slicker in my red Plymouth

1:28:50

and he's like a salt of the

1:28:53

earth rust? And he just has rust

1:28:55

and flames. He's just moving some rust

1:28:57

and flammable flames. I do have a

1:29:00

picture of the driver if you want

1:29:02

to see him. They did they did

1:29:04

provide one picture of him if you're

1:29:06

interested in the picture I want to

1:29:09

show you. The picture I show Griffin

1:29:11

is, if you want to say, Griffin.

1:29:13

It's a Russell Crow in the film

1:29:16

on Hinge. Right, which is like the

1:29:18

opposite of this movie. Yeah. Where it's

1:29:20

like, what if that happened to you?

1:29:22

But rather than it was this unknowable

1:29:25

sort of question of like, what does

1:29:27

this represent or who is doing this?

1:29:29

It was like a large Russell Crow

1:29:31

going like, fuck you, I'm going to

1:29:34

kill you with my car, the whole

1:29:36

movie. Right. And he's ostensibly the hero.

1:29:38

You cut off the wrong guy, motherfucker.

1:29:41

I do think that's one of our

1:29:43

friend Richard Lawson's best jokes. on the

1:29:45

10 years of this podcast. I believe

1:29:47

it was in the witches episode where

1:29:50

we were doing the box office game

1:29:52

when theaters had not really reopened of

1:29:54

what was in the top 10 the

1:29:57

week the witches went on HBO Max

1:29:59

and on Hinge was number one because

1:30:01

on Hinge was basically. Yeah, solstice studios

1:30:03

released on like 40,000 screens. There was

1:30:06

nothing available. I think it beat Tenet

1:30:08

by one week. to be the first

1:30:10

new wide release. And you said like

1:30:13

unhinged, number one, two million dollars, and

1:30:15

Lawson said, which is a pretty good

1:30:17

gross for a documentary. No, he's not

1:30:19

the hero. He's a villain. I've never

1:30:22

seen him. I've seen it. He's the

1:30:24

protagonist, but he's a psychopath. Okay. It's

1:30:26

a falling down type. Yeah. It's like,

1:30:29

what if you were, you, you know,

1:30:31

what if someone aggressive. Yeah. No, he's

1:30:33

already crazy. Oh, okay. Like with a

1:30:35

guy behind the wheel of a car

1:30:38

and then it turns out the guy

1:30:40

you did that too was Russell. Right.

1:30:42

Roy did up on Rage, not on

1:30:45

Sarah. But who's that guy? Who's the

1:30:47

guy he's chasing in the movie? I

1:30:49

wish I could remember without looking it

1:30:51

up, but unfortunately I can't. Yeah, I

1:30:54

don't know. I want to state an

1:30:56

intent here. 2025, I'm going to really

1:30:58

up the number Gijandé references I may.

1:31:01

Oh, get him up there. I think

1:31:03

it's a perfect time to start reclaiming

1:31:05

Camjill Grande. Do you want to bring

1:31:07

up the movie Bad Johnson? Yeah, that's

1:31:10

a movie in which I think Nick

1:31:12

Thune plays his penis. It's a comedy

1:31:14

in which Camjigandé's penis comes to life

1:31:17

and is played by comedian Nick Thune.

1:31:19

These are fun names to say, Kamji

1:31:21

Gonday and Nick Fune in the penis

1:31:23

comedy Bad Johnson. Bad Johnson, known as

1:31:26

Shlong story in some markets. Yeah. You're

1:31:28

telling me this film was in multiple

1:31:30

markets? I don't know. There was a

1:31:33

deadline story recently announcing a Kamji Gonday

1:31:35

Kellen Lutz movie and I texted David

1:31:37

and said, this is like the Pachino

1:31:39

de Niro, he team up of dog

1:31:42

shit. And what did I say? I

1:31:44

think I said the dollar store version,

1:31:46

you maybe said it was the penny

1:31:49

store version. Anyway, 2025 is the yours

1:31:51

you got a day, it comes back.

1:31:53

He's back, dual. He'd be good in

1:31:55

a dual region. Sure. I want to

1:31:58

ask, have you ever had... a

1:32:00

scary rage rage no, no. I

1:32:02

would say no. I never had a thing

1:32:04

where I'm like, oh my no, I would say

1:32:06

no, I I is never had a thing where

1:32:08

I'm like, and this person is this is unsafe

1:32:10

and this person you to attack me. Have

1:32:12

you? I've had like aggressive drivers me with me

1:32:15

at at me know, you know, I've had shit

1:32:17

like that. No, I have this one with

1:32:19

a truck that has really, it still stands

1:32:21

out to me as one of those things

1:32:23

where I'm like, this was a close call

1:32:25

for me. call for me. I I wasn't the

1:32:27

driver, but I was in the car.

1:32:29

We were coming back from Hartford, Connecticut.

1:32:31

We went to a Dave Matthews band

1:32:33

concert. Band just riding high on being

1:32:35

cool guys. high on being were probably, were probably, yeah,

1:32:37

definitely one of the, it was one

1:32:39

of the coolest moments for me in

1:32:41

my life. Well, you're already on edge my

1:32:43

if you're driving back from a Dave

1:32:45

Matthews because if you're always the risk that

1:32:48

you're gonna get hit with his shit

1:32:50

truck. there's always the risk

1:32:52

that you're gonna a real with

1:32:54

his shit truck. If you

1:32:56

you and take an an underpass,

1:32:58

might you might get moved

1:33:00

all over. Is that become it

1:33:02

all over. Is that he's

1:33:05

their legacy? It's like,

1:33:07

no, he's a respectable artist, but that is

1:33:09

one of one funniest of things that's ever happened. ever

1:33:11

happened. Anyway, go on. And

1:33:13

we were on 95, we were kind of of

1:33:15

like heading basically towards the

1:33:18

GWB, but at some point

1:33:20

split off. point split off, towards

1:33:22

New Jersey New Jersey.

1:33:24

And. I I don't know. Maybe he

1:33:26

pissed off this tractor trailer. tractor trailer.

1:33:28

The tractor trailer into our

1:33:30

lane lane and we we almost swerved

1:33:32

into like, you know, those like you know,

1:33:34

there was like yellow plastic

1:33:36

barrels that like - Yes, you from

1:33:39

you from crashing. Filled with water.

1:33:41

Yes, we almost crashed into

1:33:43

that. that was like the truck

1:33:45

really almost led us to crash

1:33:47

and he was doing it

1:33:49

on purpose on sure. sure. It It

1:33:51

was very scary. This is a dual

1:33:53

time of situation. Yeah, This and we slammed