0:00

guys. Neil Brennan's The Blocks Podcast. My

0:02

guest today is a guy I've known

0:04

a little bit for a long time.

0:06

He's a performer and writer. You would

0:08

know him from The Nightly Show and

0:10

Comedy Central. And now he makes appearances

0:12

on Bill Maher's show. And he's got

0:15

a podcast called Black on the Mic.

0:17

Black on the Air. Black on the

0:19

Air. I'm freestyling this. He was the

0:21

creator of the PJs, which you haven't

0:23

thought about in a while. The

0:26

co -creator of Bernie Mac? Co

0:28

-creator of the PJs, creator of

0:30

the Bernie Mac show. Co -creator of

0:32

Insecure. Great. Helped launch Black -ish. Co

0:34

-creator of Grown -ish. Rome produced

0:36

first three seasons of The Office. Senior Black

0:38

correspondent on The Daily Show. Worked on many

0:40

TV shows, all that kind of stuff. And

0:43

arrogant about it. Did Obama's last White House

0:45

correspondence. Did he? That was good. Just

0:47

got a note from the president saying that

0:49

if you want another drink, you should

0:51

order it now because the bar will be

0:53

closing down. Of course, he said the

0:55

same thing about Guantanamo, so you have at least

0:57

another eight years. Larry

1:00

Wilmore is what I'm trying to say.

1:02

Larry Wilmore is here, and I'm happy to

1:04

have him. You have your blocks, which

1:06

I'm happy you cooperated, you gave them to

1:08

me. You've seen the block

1:10

special, you understand what it's about.

1:12

A lot of people big time me,

1:14

they won't give me blocks. Really?

1:16

Yeah. That was their blocks, is they

1:18

don't want to do blocks. Well,

1:20

they just, they don't want to, it

1:22

seems like homeworking, but it makes it

1:24

more interesting. Is

1:27

that a power play? No, just like Seth Meyers

1:29

did. I mean, like a good friend. I

1:32

knew his blocks anyway, but it was like he

1:34

just didn't do the homework. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A

1:36

guy who makes everyone do a pre -interview

1:38

for his show. It's different when he's

1:41

the guest, Larry. Anyhow, we're not here to

1:43

slams that. So

1:45

the thing that I wanted to talk

1:47

to you about, because I've known when

1:49

you were doing the nightly show, I would

1:51

hear from time to time that you're a

1:53

little conservative. Now, you

1:55

would, as you said, you're

1:57

still considered a libtard by

1:59

people, by actual conservatives. Right.

2:01

I think it's that arm of

2:04

the people that just like to call

2:06

names and react online and that

2:08

type of thing. When you meet people

2:10

in person, it's different. I've always

2:12

considered myself, the term I used was

2:14

passionate centrist. And I always said

2:16

half the time I disagree with myself.

2:18

It's the way that I put

2:21

it. Because I always said... I

2:23

have an opinion, but if the facts trump

2:25

my opinion, then I have to drop my

2:27

opinion and go with the facts. That's pretty

2:29

much my philosophy. So I don't have an

2:31

ideology. Most people don't. People

2:33

think you need to be loyal

2:35

to your own beliefs. Or

2:37

it's like you have the

2:39

merch. Like I bought all the

2:41

shit. I have all the

2:44

arguments lined up. Whereas I

2:46

think it's more interesting to just

2:48

go like, what do I actually feel

2:50

about this? Right. I think, you

2:52

know, you start with a set of

2:54

beliefs and sometimes the world confirms

2:56

that and sometimes it tells you something

2:58

that you did not know that

3:00

can either expand your beliefs. Are there

3:02

any that jumped to mind in

3:05

your life that you weren't sure of

3:07

and then you were like, oh.

3:09

I don't know if there's something that

3:11

changed my mind, but there are

3:13

things that have expanded the things that

3:15

I thought of, like marriage and

3:17

children, you know. Marriage

3:20

gave me a completely different idea of

3:22

how companionship, of even what companionship is.

3:24

What did you think it was and

3:26

what did you? had no idea. So

3:29

it's the thing in my life

3:31

I was the most clueless about. Everything

3:34

else I've studied, you know, I've worked

3:36

at and that, that I was not prepared

3:38

for by any means, you know. How

3:40

did you date a lot? Not really. I

3:42

kind of did stand -up dating. When I

3:44

was a stand -up, you know? Bring him

3:46

to a show, get a drink afterward.

3:49

Exactly. You know, you use your comedy... Don't

3:51

ask me how I know. You use

3:53

your comedy power until it wears off. You

3:55

also are... He's a king of the

3:57

Magic Castle. You're an officer at the Magic

3:59

Castle. I am. I'm actually vice president

4:01

now at Magic Castle. I perform there and

4:03

that kind of stuff. Yeah, which is

4:05

another way nerds control social situations. Exactly. Maybe

4:07

more hostily than comedy. dated a girl

4:09

back in the day when I was... My

4:11

early days of stand -up. um she was

4:13

really this really hot girl she was

4:16

working in the ticket booth right at the

4:18

newport beach laugh stuff that's kind of

4:20

where i actually started i'll say my second

4:22

start because i had to stop and

4:24

start and stand up what years this is

4:26

like 84 maybe mm -hmm yeah i had

4:28

started a little earlier but it was

4:30

one of those things funny i was listening

4:32

to talk with curliefer i had the

4:34

exact same thing happen to me i went

4:36

up at the comedy store this is

4:38

like 79 maybe you know did open mic

4:40

night And I

4:43

didn't have any stand -up, you know, but

4:45

I did like talent shows in school

4:47

and that kind of stuff, you know.

4:49

And I did impressions, you know, and a

4:51

few jokes are in there. But I

4:53

had memorized like this rich little thing, not

4:55

knowing that I couldn't memorize somebody else's

4:57

thing, right? And so, but I

4:59

had a lot of confidence and I went up and

5:01

I, and I killed you do three minutes as amateur

5:03

night. Yeah. You know, did great. And they said, Oh,

5:05

we'd like you to come back and do it for

5:07

the, I'm like, yeah, this is great. You know, I

5:09

come back the next week. First of all, I was

5:11

sick as a dog. Right. I mean, just had this

5:13

flu and everything. And you were like, probably won't matter. Exactly.

5:16

But Neil, it couldn't have been more. It

5:18

was the opposite in every single way. I

5:20

remember it was just one of it, but

5:22

I mean, it was the. death of deaths

5:24

i have a daily show story about this

5:26

too but where people you know where people

5:28

don't want to look at you yeah they

5:30

don't they don't want to get close to

5:32

that death that's what it's like they don't

5:34

even want to get it on whatever just

5:37

happened they don't want it it spooked me

5:39

from doing it for a few years because

5:41

i thought i can't do this this is

5:43

too hard all right i want to get

5:45

back to the the companionship thing what so

5:47

you hadn't really date you didn't have did

5:49

you have girlfriends Not really.

5:51

I had maybe one during that time, but

5:53

she lived in Portland. I was in

5:55

L .A. And it was just crazy. How

5:57

did you? There was no reason for me

5:59

to be, for us to be together. It

6:01

was just a mess. But I realized when

6:03

I look back now, I had

6:05

no interpersonal tools for a relationship

6:08

because my parents were not a

6:10

good example. They divorced when I

6:12

was young. My dad was very

6:14

non -emotional, never showed my mom.

6:16

Any emotion and stuff that. My

6:18

mom was over emotional, that type

6:21

of thing. Their relationship was very,

6:23

it's just bizarre. And in fact,

6:25

they divorced back then, but they're

6:27

actually kind of still together now,

6:29

in a sense. That's how dysfunctional

6:31

it is. It becomes functional after

6:34

a while. I was like, yeah,

6:36

they've been divorced, but they're still

6:38

together. Exactly. So, not that I

6:40

can blame everything on them, but... I

6:46

met girls through stand -up during

6:49

those years. That was the

6:51

way that I met women. How

6:53

long did you date the

6:55

woman who became your wife? When

6:58

I met her, I was

7:00

frustrated with dating and everything. I

7:02

was getting to my late 20s, and I'm like,

7:04

okay. In fact, I used to do

7:06

a joke about it at the time. I still remember. I

7:08

said, you know i've been

7:10

looking for the the right person then i

7:13

started thinking maybe i'm not the right

7:15

person you know maybe i'm the wrong person

7:17

you know maybe i have to start

7:19

looking for the wrong girl it's like uh

7:21

how did it go was like uh

7:23

so uh what do you do lesbian yes

7:25

you know something like where are you

7:27

from prison yes it's that type of thing

7:29

but i remember you starting i started

7:31

doing jokes about being the wrong person and

7:34

something wrong with me rather than the

7:36

people. And I remember my roommate at the

7:39

time. Do you know Bobby Gaylord? Did

7:41

you ever know Bobby? He was a stand

7:43

-up. When we moved in

7:45

together... He was going through a

7:47

divorce, and he was going to therapy a

7:49

lot. And he would come home, I would ask

7:51

him about therapy, you know, and he would

7:53

share his therapy session. So I was kind of

7:55

getting therapy by proxy a little bit. Like

7:57

I was learning all these things. I think that

7:59

applies to me. Thank you, Bobby. I'm going

8:02

to give you $5. I had zero money for

8:04

those types of things. Right. No, it was

8:06

awesome. And I actually learned a lot in the

8:08

couple of years he was going to. great?

8:10

I think that's what podcasts are for

8:13

now. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. same purpose. No, you're

8:15

absolutely right. And so I realized, and

8:17

it was funny, I think the acting classes

8:19

I was taking at the time too

8:21

helped me turn inward. And one of the

8:23

things, I wrote down something empath on

8:25

there, sociopath is one of it. One of

8:27

the things I had realized during that

8:30

time, it was very difficult for me to

8:32

have my own emotions, to be okay

8:34

with them. My

8:36

parents had split when I was a teenager. It

8:38

was one of those things. This was an

8:40

old saying that people used to say, you're the

8:42

man in the house now. That type of

8:44

thing. It's like, fuck. That puts a lot of

8:46

emotional pressure on you. I think my emotions

8:48

shut down then because I had to take care

8:51

of my mom who was going through a

8:53

tough time. With the divorce or

8:55

other stuff? she's had emotional breakdowns, things like

8:57

that. It's just really tough on her. There

9:00

were six of us. I had two

9:02

older sisters, but they were like, into

9:04

drugs and just into trouble and i

9:06

was like de facto the oldest so

9:08

i felt a lot of weight on

9:10

my shoulders so i always say i

9:12

kind of ended my childhood maybe at

9:14

15 and yeah just was more put

9:16

my feelings yeah aside you know and

9:18

i realized that in my 20s like

9:20

i could not get angry and things

9:22

like that you know and i couldn't

9:24

i didn't have permission for a lot

9:26

of my feelings and stuff you know

9:29

That's interesting that even, because men can

9:31

have very little access to emotions except

9:33

anger, in my experience. So you didn't

9:36

have that. No. You weren't even clear.

9:38

You have clearance for anger. No, I

9:40

didn't have permission for it. Yeah. Yeah.

9:42

For my own anger. I could be

9:44

anger on someone else's behalf maybe. Okay.

9:46

But for my own, there's a distinction

9:48

between that, which is interesting. So would

9:50

you just sort of go numb? In

9:52

situations where you should have been angry?

9:54

I was too, when I say empath,

9:56

I was too understanding of what happened

9:58

of that person. Because I was trained

10:01

to understand somebody's in trouble, somebody's hurting.

10:03

My thing doesn't count. What's happening over

10:05

here? Is that what your mother modeled

10:07

or she actually imparted that? no. I

10:09

did this all on my own. She

10:11

did not ask for that or model

10:13

that. She's not to blame for that.

10:15

This was me trying to help. Yeah.

10:17

You know, when I look back at

10:19

it now, I didn't know it at

10:21

the time. Did you grow up Christian

10:23

or anything? I was Catholic. Yeah, I

10:25

mean, I think that's a big part

10:28

of it. Sacrificial. Yeah, I really do.

10:30

Like, I think about, like, I was

10:32

going to Google yesterday. Am I my

10:34

brother's keeper? Yeah. The

10:36

Bible says about I am, right? You

10:39

absolutely are. Because I find

10:41

myself being sort of nosy.

10:43

Right. And kind of, like,

10:46

trying to help. Right. And then people

10:48

don't really like it. And I don't

10:50

think it's helpful long -term, maybe. Well, the

10:52

thing that is positive for me is

10:54

if I view my life as a

10:56

life of service, then that's helpful. Right.

10:58

Because you can never... can never fill

11:00

that pot. You can always give something.

11:02

Even when I give people advice in

11:04

show business, I say, don't look at

11:06

show business as something you can get

11:08

something out of. Look at something you

11:10

can put something into. Make a contribution

11:12

to it. Put something there that hasn't

11:14

been there. And if you operate

11:16

like that, it's more of a creative way

11:18

to exist in the business rather than I'm

11:20

not getting one out of it. It's

11:23

a little more selfish way.

11:25

And it's very transactional. And sometimes

11:27

it works. It can

11:29

be very frustrating. That's interesting. So

11:31

you didn't really know how to have

11:33

emotions? I didn't. I couldn't have.

11:35

Now the question is like now would

11:37

you be autistic? Would

11:40

you be considered autistic do you think?

11:42

It's possible I could have been

11:44

on the spectrum. My son has Asperger's.

11:46

I think my dad is on

11:48

the spectrum. I really do. I

11:51

like how everyone around you is on the spectrum

11:53

except you. Well, I said I might be. But

11:56

they definitely are? That's your diagnosis? Well,

11:58

my dad's never been diagnosed. He would

12:01

never admit it. But I think it's

12:03

possible that he is. My

12:05

son was diagnosed, and he

12:07

is. I would be a

12:10

very high -functioning one. Sure, I think a

12:12

lot of them are. I'm on the

12:14

spectrum. I took the test. I'm the lowest

12:16

rung, but I'm on it. So I

12:18

don't have – there are some of the

12:20

social things I might have, but I

12:22

also I played a lot of sports. I

12:24

was involved in theater. So I did

12:26

socialize. That wasn't – Like I wasn't

12:28

a self -player type of thing, even though I did

12:30

do a lot of that too. But

12:32

it wasn't until, so it was a combination

12:35

of acting classes, therapy by proxy, that I

12:37

started having permission to have my own emotions.

12:39

The acting class actually helped a lot because

12:41

you had to, you had to emote and

12:43

that kind of stuff and you kind of

12:45

go, I remember taking acting classes and you're

12:47

like, oh. I've never, I don't think I've

12:49

ever felt this myself. Yeah. But like, interesting.

12:51

Okay. Right. To really tap into how you

12:54

really feel about something and that kind of

12:56

stuff. So I really grew as a person

12:58

during that. And it was after that I

13:00

was able to attract, you know, the woman

13:02

who became my wife. So I think I

13:04

had to go through that. I think you

13:06

have to be the right person to attract

13:08

the right person. Yeah. Going back to my

13:10

stand -up idea. You know, I think you're

13:13

going to attract the version of yourself that's

13:15

going to push all the buttons. And if

13:17

you're... in the frail button pushing mode, you

13:19

know, that's not going to be good. Because

13:21

going to pick that person. The version of yourself

13:24

that's going to push their buttons? No, you

13:26

will always pick the person who's good at

13:28

pushing. Your buttons. You're always going to do that.

13:30

But if you have a proper relationship with

13:32

those buttons, you're in a better place. What

13:35

were your The person who will

13:37

push them responsibly. What were your buttons?

13:39

Or without you reacting. I think

13:41

that's another big one. It's like, what

13:43

were your buttons? Or feeling threatened.

13:45

Right. Yeah. What were your buttons? I

13:48

never really thought of it,

13:50

but looking back, I think providing

13:52

was a button. You know,

13:54

if you feel like you're not

13:57

providing, that goes back to

13:59

earlier or not taking care of.

14:01

Like you're falling short in that arena.

14:03

So was it like you should

14:05

plan dates, you should be more considerate,

14:07

you should I don't know how

14:09

it manifests itself. When I look back

14:12

at it, and anything, that's the

14:14

thing that was triggered. Now, it could

14:16

be something unrelated that could actually

14:18

trigger that. You know, like one of

14:20

our big fights when we were

14:22

married was, my wife was very successful

14:24

as an actor when she was

14:26

young, and she really wanted to be

14:28

a mom, and she didn't want

14:30

to work full -time. She wanted to

14:32

be at home a lot, you know,

14:34

and I said, hey. I'm for

14:36

whatever you want to do. You want

14:38

to work? We'll figure it out.

14:40

She said, no, I really want to

14:42

be a mom most of the

14:44

time. She did a lot of voiceover

14:46

work and that kind of stuff.

14:48

But I think a lot of resentment

14:50

build because that's really hard work.

14:52

Being a mom? Oh, being with kids

14:54

all the time? It's punitive and

14:56

relentless. Completely. And

14:58

it really... That pushed a lot of

15:00

her buttons. I used to do this

15:02

joke. I have some jokes

15:04

that I never really did in stand -up,

15:06

but they were my favorite jokes. And

15:09

I just kept them in places. Here's one

15:11

of them. Never did this in stand -up, but

15:13

this is it. So I said, when you meet

15:15

somebody, you're going out with somebody, everybody has

15:17

baggage, right? It's just

15:19

that most of the time, all you have is

15:21

carry -on baggage. When you date somebody, that's

15:23

all you have. And you look and you go, oh.

15:25

They just have carry -on. That's not so bad. I can

15:27

do with that. A backpack? Yeah. It's reasonable. I got

15:29

nothing. I got a computer bag. I got nothing. But

15:31

that's all you have is carry -on. When you get

15:33

married, though, that's when you first go to baggage claim. And

15:36

you go, oh, I didn't know you

15:38

had that. Where did this bag come from?

15:40

All these bags started popping up that

15:42

you didn't know. So you have to go

15:44

through that. And then when you have

15:46

kids, that's when your loss of luggage is

15:48

delivered to your house. These are bags

15:51

you didn't even know. You had

15:53

completely forgotten that you packed. So

15:55

children, they unearth all the issues

15:57

you didn't even know that you

15:59

had. She

16:02

resented me out in the world getting

16:04

praise and all this stuff because I

16:06

was getting a lot of success during

16:08

that time. I was winning awards. A

16:10

lot of stuff was happening. She

16:13

was mainly at home doing that.

16:15

She even admitted there was a

16:17

lot of resentment. She

16:20

would say she wanted an equal partner.

16:22

I'm like, equal partner? Who's paying for

16:24

these trips? I do my thing. And

16:26

man, that triggered me when I look

16:28

back that I was accused of not

16:30

doing my job as a provider. But

16:32

she was asking for something else that

16:35

I couldn't hear at the time. What

16:37

was it? She needed help in this

16:39

arena where she did not feel seen

16:41

in taking the kids. Is

16:43

there a way, do you think

16:45

you could have handled it with

16:47

praise? Or do you think it

16:49

was you needed do more? No,

16:51

you had to show up. And

16:53

there's ways of showing up. that

16:55

I could have done better, but

16:57

I just, I was exhausted and

16:59

overwhelmed at the time too, but

17:01

for other reasons, you know. But

17:03

I missed my, one of my

17:05

biggest regrets. of the magic you

17:07

were doing at the Magic Castle.

17:10

But one of my biggest regrets

17:12

about those years is I wish

17:14

I just had more respect for

17:16

how hard. the

17:18

things she was going through really was. Yeah. Like

17:20

how tough it really was on her psyche. Yeah.

17:22

And I tried my best, you know, to be

17:24

supportive and everything, but it was just deeper than

17:26

that. And she's a great person and all that

17:28

stuff. You

17:31

know, and we worked on our marriage

17:33

for a long time, you know, but

17:35

even when you work on it, you

17:37

can intellectually work on something, but some

17:39

things... They just work against you, some

17:41

of those dynamics, you know. Yeah, I

17:44

mean, that's what I'm wondering. Because I

17:46

don't know how most people do it

17:48

in terms of... So you're working your

17:50

high -up shows or creative shows. You're

17:52

working 12 hours a day, probably. 14

17:54

sometimes. Yeah, 14. And

17:57

then you get home. And

18:00

then, you

18:02

know I mean? Like, what's the

18:04

solution? Did you get a nanny?

18:06

Would a nanny have helped? We

18:08

had help, absolutely. But it was still

18:10

a lot. We had

18:12

a nanny. She also

18:14

cooked and everything. We had grandparents

18:16

nearby. But I think it was

18:18

more of what it did to

18:20

her for her identity. And

18:24

she was very dedicated, too. So it's not

18:26

like she could just hand the kids off.

18:28

She spent a lot of quality time with

18:30

the kids. And she worked, too. She did

18:32

voice of work and that kind of stuff.

18:34

So it's not like... that's not quite the

18:36

solution. It really is. What it is is

18:39

that sometimes people just need to feel that

18:41

you're with them in a different way that

18:43

you're not quite doing. So you feel like

18:45

you would give it lip service, but it's

18:47

hard to... I just didn't relate to it

18:49

because I thought I was doing my part

18:51

and she was doing hers. I thought we

18:53

were each doing our parts, but she required

18:55

something different than I required. I

18:57

didn't require approving of anything.

18:59

I got to say, I don't

19:01

love being... accused

19:04

of being a bad partner. Not

19:06

that big a fan. Especially when you

19:08

were working 14 hours a day. And

19:11

you're like, still? That

19:15

didn't do it? That was a big trigger. So

19:18

that was your sort of that

19:20

was the thing you had no

19:22

concept of and now you said

19:24

you have a girlfriend that your

19:26

wife doesn't know about. No,

19:29

she knows that. She's ex -wife. Ex

19:31

-wife now. So you have a girlfriend. How

19:35

are you a better partner now? Well,

19:37

I know these things now. Our

19:41

communication is really good. There's

19:44

some areas where, of course, in

19:46

any relationship. um she's very

19:48

private so i have to be mindful of

19:50

the things i say right now yeah

19:52

she doesn't like her business out in the

19:54

street but she's great you know she's

19:56

very sensitive i'm not going to compare the

19:58

two everybody's different you know but i

20:00

think i'm just in a better place right

20:03

now to be open to something that

20:05

you don't know that comes up and then

20:07

you deal with that you know not

20:09

defensive not yeah even if you're defensive at

20:11

first to get over it

20:13

yeah and then move on you know

20:15

not to hold on to that

20:17

you know because it's okay look there's

20:19

nothing wrong with those feelings at

20:21

first you just have to move past

20:23

them if you hold on to

20:25

it that's the problem yeah because we

20:28

all have triggers that are not

20:30

going to go away you know yeah

20:32

you just have to be in

20:34

a good relationship all i'm working on

20:36

is getting through it faster yeah

20:38

exactly it is faster i'll tell you

20:40

it's three times faster than it

20:42

was still pretty still pretty slow But

20:44

that's pretty good. Yeah. No, I'm

20:46

improving. But, you know, it's like a

20:48

guy who's, you know. What's your

20:50

biggest relationship issue that alienates you? I

20:53

think that's the thing of not,

20:55

of taking criticism. I don't

20:57

take it well. Yeah. Because

20:59

I think it's, I always think

21:01

like, so you're basically throwing

21:03

away all of my behavior. Yeah.

21:07

And bringing me up on

21:09

charges for this. And it's

21:11

like, I feel like it's

21:13

disrespectful to the good stuff.

21:15

Yeah, criticism's tough. Yeah.

21:17

I'm not good at it either. Because I

21:20

have also been arguing sort of like,

21:22

I mean, I have a whole theory about

21:24

like, don't give each other notes. I

21:26

genuinely will not give her notes. Right. I

21:28

will not give her improvements. I will

21:30

not give her, it's like, just as is.

21:32

right it's a restaurant with no substitutions

21:34

right that's the feeling it's like you like

21:36

it cool right is it bearable are

21:38

the bad parts bearable because i don't i

21:41

didn't get in a relationship to change

21:43

right i got a relationship to enjoy myself

21:45

so right and men and women they

21:47

both have time machines when they start relationships

21:49

but Women's time machine relationship is

21:51

they want to take you forward through time. So

21:53

they move that lever. Maybe

21:55

we'll have kids. When

21:58

they have a time machine, they break

22:00

the time machine because they want time

22:02

to stand still. So they'll hide the

22:04

lever. Close

22:06

the doors. But they're

22:08

both time machines. She knows

22:10

I don't want kids. She has kids,

22:13

so I'm involved there. How old are

22:15

her kids? Four. It's one child and

22:17

he's four. Good

22:20

job, Danny. Yep. He's

22:25

forgotten his old daddy already. Forget

22:27

it. So I guess that's

22:29

the thing I don't do well with

22:31

is criticism because it just feels

22:33

like, I'm good. Stop it. This

22:35

is good. So I

22:37

am in favor of breaking

22:40

the time machine because we're not

22:42

moving toward anything. Right. I'm

22:45

not doing that. I'm not going to

22:47

have kids. Right.

22:49

I'll help you with yours, though. Are you going to

22:51

get married? It's

22:54

not that meaningful? No. Never

22:56

been meaningful to me. Right. Because

22:59

marriage to you doesn't

23:01

I'm totally committed. I just

23:03

think it's fake security.

23:05

It's like TSA. What if

23:07

it's security to the other person? It's TSA.

23:09

It's fake security. But what if it's fake security

23:11

to you, but real security else? It's never

23:14

going to be real security. But

23:16

what if it's real to them? I don't care

23:18

what you perceive. I can prove to you it's

23:20

not real security. All I have to do is

23:22

call a lawyer and it's over. Right.

23:24

So that's not real security. Then you would have

23:26

to pay something called Alamo. Right, but I would

23:28

have a prenup. So

23:30

there is no security in a

23:33

Neil Brennan relationship. You ain't get

23:35

it. No, there is security in that

23:37

I'm committed to you. But I don't

23:39

need the government's help. Okay. Or lawyers.

23:41

Do you find any value in saying

23:43

vows in front of people? No,

23:46

I don't. I understand how it,

23:48

as a Catholic, I understand guilt.

23:50

Yeah. And I understand shame. Societal

23:52

pressure. Yeah, I don't do well

23:54

with doing, I mean, the blocks

23:57

was about like. All these things

23:59

I'm supposed to do that I

24:01

cannot do. I'm not good at

24:03

them. Did you grow Catholic? Did

24:05

you say? Oh, yeah. Twelve years,

24:07

altar boy. Oh, yeah. We did

24:10

the same thing. Yeah. So, like,

24:12

I get the... I'm very familiar

24:14

with institutional pressure. just a sacrament

24:16

in the Catholic Church. At least.

24:18

Thank God. So, I

24:20

get what it is.

24:23

I just... don't think

24:25

it's worth anything. Yeah. In and of

24:27

itself. I get that it's insurance. Right. If

24:29

you have a kid with somebody, you

24:31

absolutely, like, they deserve protection. Yeah, I agree

24:33

with that. But I don't, I'm not

24:35

gonna, you know, so it's like, I don't

24:37

need this thing of like, well, I've

24:40

done well, so then if we get divorced,

24:42

you get, it doesn't make, it doesn't

24:44

make any sense to me. And you can't

24:46

make it make sense. People

24:48

try. would never. No, I know you wouldn't try,

24:50

but others have tried. Yeah. I'm

24:52

on the Neil train. Oh,

24:55

yeah. You have a girlfriend for seven years. So

24:57

you get it. You know,

24:59

guys, spring is in the air. The weather's

25:01

warming up. And I'm most looking forward

25:03

to taking longer walks in a nice T

25:05

-shirt like I'm doing right now. LA doesn't

25:07

get cold, but it gets a little

25:09

cold. You know I mean? And once it

25:11

warms up a little bit, I'm talking

25:14

about like a dusk walk, you know, where

25:16

you don't have to wear a jacket.

25:18

you feel like you did something right in

25:20

life. And I'm looking forward to it

25:22

even more because I've started using Mando whole

25:24

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25:26

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25:28

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25:30

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25:32

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25:34

you know, the thing I like about Mando

25:36

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25:38

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25:41

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25:43

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25:45

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25:47

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27:57

other unpopular...

28:00

opinions or things that you didn't know

28:03

or things you've changed your mind

28:05

about maybe god go i'm interested because

28:07

i have also so i grew

28:09

up catholic i was ultra boy just

28:11

like you i had a very

28:13

firm in my mind understanding that not

28:16

only did a god exist but

28:18

a kind of an idea that he

28:20

existed within the framework of the

28:22

religion that i was yes that i

28:24

was inside old man yeah whatever

28:26

those are yep clouds um And

28:29

even Catholicism, it's kind of convoluted.

28:31

There's three of them. the worst story

28:33

ever told. There's three persons, but

28:35

it's like thing. I was in church

28:37

the other day. I literally went

28:39

to church with my mom. And it

28:41

was like, this is the most

28:43

convoluted storytelling I've ever fucking heard. The

28:45

fact that they called it the

28:47

greatest story ever told, it's like, guys,

28:49

this isn't even in the top

28:51

thousand. Yeah. And the fact that. Modern

28:53

Christianity is really built on cannibalism.

28:55

I mean, every week is like the

28:57

body of Christ going into your

28:59

mouth. Incredibly bizarre, yes. And it's not,

29:01

by the way, it's not symbolic

29:03

of his body. It's not symbolism. It's

29:06

been transmuted. Exactly. There is no

29:08

metaphor. The idea is you are actually

29:10

eating the actual body of Christ.

29:12

So it really is, it's not even

29:14

a joke. It actually is cannibalism.

29:16

Yep. Correct. That's pretty crazy.

29:18

It's one of the many

29:20

things it's bananas about. Transubstantiation.

29:22

There you go. Another

29:24

very convoluted term that's

29:26

unnecessary. They didn't need

29:29

to. So

29:31

then you fell out? No, I

29:33

would call it agnostic for a

29:35

while. I was kind of searching.

29:38

I went to Protestant church for

29:40

a while. When

29:42

I was doing stand -up, I had a

29:44

manager. She was very, you know, that. Christian,

29:47

you know, where they

29:49

want to, you know, sign people up type of stuff.

29:51

So I went to her church for a while. Really

29:53

nice people and stuff. It wasn't quite for me. And

29:55

so I stopped going. And then when I met my

29:57

wife, she was very Catholic. She grew up in a

29:59

very Catholic family. And so I started going again. And

30:01

I thought, you know, once we

30:03

had kids, I thought, well, it's good for

30:05

me to go because it's good to

30:07

give the kids something and then they can

30:09

make up their own minds. Do you

30:11

still believe that? that that they need a

30:14

moral framework from uh from a religious

30:16

organization i think there's value in it yes

30:18

okay i think more value than not

30:20

yes correct fine because i i wonder well

30:22

then good luck choosing where they get

30:24

their moral framework. Well, I've spoken to people

30:26

that didn't grow up religious, and they

30:28

were like, yeah, you just get a moral

30:30

framework from your parents and the world.

30:32

Good luck having the right parents. Okay, fair

30:34

enough. Right, but you don't have to

30:37

necessarily count on the right parents if there's

30:39

a framework that enough people agree on.

30:41

Right? Yeah. And you may have

30:43

to get lucky with that. Who knows? It

30:45

may be a horrible religion that gives you a bad

30:47

framework. I don't know. But

30:49

I think at the right time, they can make up

30:51

their own mind about things just like I did, you

30:54

know, because I'm not going to pressure them with it

30:56

or that sort of thing. But, you know, when they're

30:58

young, they can grow up in it. So I went

31:00

to church faithfully during all that time. And then once

31:02

they, you know, they were older and stuff, you know,

31:04

it stopped going so much. And then something happened to

31:06

me. This was the moment that happened, because I'll never

31:08

forget it, you know, where I

31:10

remember having discussions with people about it and

31:13

arguing back and forth and all that

31:15

kind of stuff. And still feeling

31:17

that I was kind of agnostic. And I

31:19

had Neil deGrasse Tyson on my podcast. And

31:21

I was asking him questions about everything. And

31:23

I'm kind of a contrarian sometimes. is fairly

31:25

recently then. No, this was a few. This

31:27

was back in 2016. That's not.

31:29

I mean, yeah. Like it's not. No, 2018.

31:31

2018. So that's, yeah. Yeah, fairly recently.

31:33

Yeah. And I asked him that question about,

31:36

I said, what is life? Like what

31:38

happens when you die? Because I've always been

31:40

obsessed with death a little bit too. And

31:43

he broke it down in such

31:45

a granular, molecular way that it

31:47

just fucked with me. And I

31:49

was like, fuck, you're right. I

31:51

mean, that's really what happens. You

31:53

are absolutely right. I didn't keep

31:56

saying that. But I remember it

31:58

fucking with me for days. And

32:00

I'll just never forget that feeling.

32:02

And then I just started thinking

32:04

of God differently. What's the short

32:06

version of what he said? Well,

32:09

he just explained life on a

32:11

very molecular level. Like matter just

32:13

deteriorates and turns into this and

32:15

that and molecules through this. He

32:17

just said it very coldly of

32:19

what actually happens. And

32:22

you're trained to think spiritually and that type

32:24

of stuff. And then the soul, all that

32:26

stuff. And then when I thought of it

32:28

like that, I was like, wow. I

32:31

had to... It just really hit me

32:33

in a way where it's not like that

32:35

was a new information. I think it

32:37

just hit me at that time in a

32:39

way that I wasn't counting on. And

32:41

it made you believe in God more? No.

32:46

I wouldn't say I became an

32:48

atheist, but I kind of... Your

32:50

agnosticism got stronger. Yes, that's what

32:52

I would say. I always said

32:54

I'll take Pascal's wager and that

32:56

sort of thing. but um because

32:59

even if you're an atheist you're

33:01

believing in something you know you're

33:03

sure about something yeah you know

33:05

you're sure in that case you're

33:07

sure about the non -existence you know

33:09

so i'm more agnostic i don't

33:11

know yeah shows up good on

33:13

you you know yeah but right

33:15

now probably not gonna happen all

33:17

right well the question i was

33:19

because i went kind of the

33:21

opposite way where i was agnostic

33:23

atheist and then i took ayahuasca

33:25

and sort of experienced the god

33:27

right and i haven't been able

33:30

to shake it in a good

33:32

way Okay, say that again. I

33:34

experienced a God or a central

33:36

creation force or interconnectedness that I

33:38

have in a drug experience, ayahuasca

33:40

and DMT and MDMA,

33:42

and mushrooms, and it

33:44

has not faded. How

33:46

long ago was that?

33:49

The first one was

33:51

four years ago. Oh,

33:53

so very recent. So

33:55

why do you equate

33:57

that feeling? Why does

33:59

that equal to a

34:01

God thing? As opposed

34:03

to just a hypersense?

34:06

It was a feeling of a God.

34:08

It was a feeling of a

34:10

central creation force. What is a God

34:12

feeling? Something

34:16

turned this on.

34:19

And I felt connected

34:21

to it. So

34:24

something that wasn't yourself.

34:26

Yes. That was something,

34:28

some force there. Yeah. It's

34:30

interesting. Yeah, and again,

34:33

I couldn't sell anybody on it

34:35

because it's something I experienced. And

34:37

I don't need you to not

34:39

eat meat or I don't need

34:41

any. Well, that's a religious thing.

34:43

Yeah. Does it make you feel

34:45

more? spiritual it makes me entire

34:48

it's the only i and i

34:50

had this experience and then i

34:52

i watched an interview with sting

34:54

he did ayahuasca and he said

34:56

this is the only genuine religious

34:58

experience i've ever had yeah it

35:00

was like i hadn't had one

35:03

he grew up some kind of

35:05

i think christian i brought up

35:07

catholic and then i oh this

35:09

is it was basically like oh

35:11

this is what they said church

35:13

was i actually experienced it right

35:15

and i've heard people say like

35:17

the body of christ is iowa

35:20

like it's based in that and

35:22

tribal and it's got a 10

35:24

it's got 10 different precursors right

35:26

whatever but yeah um christianity but

35:28

catholicism but the only spiritual experience

35:30

i've ever had and it's been

35:32

continuous and it it makes it

35:35

change my life but it's not

35:38

I don't proselytize. I don't. It's

35:40

just like change my experience.

35:42

Right. But I don't. And it

35:44

doesn't translate to a religion

35:46

or to there's no personification of

35:48

it. No, there's no. It's

35:50

not organized. It's not. I don't

35:52

need to. a thing. Yeah,

35:54

it's an experience and a thing

35:56

I think I feel. Sure. So

35:59

I get it. So part of

36:01

what I can't. I remember reading

36:03

the book Sapiens, which is. another

36:05

big influence on some of my

36:07

thinking on this um one of

36:09

the things that was real fascinating

36:11

about that book was the idea

36:13

of what a myth is you

36:15

know and how the best one

36:17

being money yes in that book

36:19

it's fantastic money being like no

36:21

it's just a thing we all

36:23

agree to but it's not it's

36:25

just gonna say that yeah the

36:27

fact that we're all agreeing to

36:29

something And the power of that.

36:31

And it's why you can have

36:33

groups and larger groups with myths.

36:35

But when I was thinking about

36:37

religion and what I felt is

36:39

one of the true reasons for

36:41

having a God, let's say, because

36:43

religion goes back so far. In

36:45

fact, one of the first things

36:47

was the sun. People just worship

36:49

the sun just because it created

36:51

life. Which they're not

36:54

wrong. Yeah. That's true. Take nothing

36:56

away from the sun. Right. But

36:58

when outside of pure idolatry of

37:00

something that's doing something and you're

37:02

thinking it, which is one type

37:04

of religious activity, which I think

37:06

was the first type, the advancement

37:08

of that was that... I

37:11

am not just a corporal being that

37:13

I have a place after this, right? That's

37:15

an advancement in religion. The Egyptians are

37:17

the most famous for that first, which is

37:19

why they built them up. You know,

37:21

all that stuff, right? The idea of an

37:23

after party. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Now, to

37:25

me, so I feel that

37:27

that primarily has been invented because

37:29

humans... one of the, I'll say

37:31

rare animals because I don't know

37:33

if other animals can do this,

37:35

but we can actually reflect. We

37:38

can do more than think. We

37:40

can actually reflect. We haven't seen

37:42

that other animals can do that.

37:44

Maybe dolphins can. It looks like

37:46

dogs can. But

37:48

we don't just

37:50

act by instinct. We

37:52

actually have a lot of time on our hands. Our

37:56

brains have developed to that

37:58

part. And one of the

38:00

most dire reflections is

38:02

death yes okay so animals act

38:04

out of instinct because they're trying to

38:06

avoid death their their body knows

38:08

how dire death is yeah and they

38:10

try to avoid it at all

38:13

costs by eating by killing all these

38:15

things you know but we can

38:17

actually ruminate on the um the the

38:19

darkness of what death really is

38:21

and how how much despair there's so

38:23

much despair in the idea of

38:25

not being here at all yeah not

38:27

existing yeah but you almost have

38:29

to create away out of that you'd

38:31

be a fool not to why

38:34

would you not exactly so that makes

38:36

complete sense to me that an

38:38

afterlife would be created to deal with

38:40

the despair of thinking Not

38:42

only are you not going to be here,

38:44

you've only been here since you came out.

38:47

Yeah. Like there's a short amount

38:49

of time. Yeah, that makes total

38:51

sense. conscious being and you're just

38:53

gone. You're just wiped out. Yeah,

38:55

it's like the death row conversion.

38:57

It's like, wow, so you're going

38:59

to die in an hour and

39:01

you just realize you're going to

39:03

die. It's done. So now you're

39:05

interested. I find myself where I'm

39:07

like, well, I am getting older.

39:09

Maybe it's just pure self -interest. People

39:11

that stop getting hired in showbiz

39:14

and go, like, showbiz is stupid

39:16

and shallow. Right. Yeah.

39:18

That's the thing is I

39:20

don't – I'm entirely comfortable

39:22

admitting that that may be

39:25

it. Yeah. And I

39:27

don't really – All

39:30

I can say for myself is

39:32

it's not cool believing in something.

39:35

And no one thinks I'm cooler

39:37

because of it. There is

39:39

the self -interest of like, when

39:41

I die, I don't die. But...

39:45

I don't, there's no way for me to, there's

39:47

no code of behavior that I need to follow

39:49

in order to get there or any of that.

39:51

Because that's the other thing where you go like,

39:53

oh, this is man -made. Yeah, and I'm not

39:55

the spiritual cop, nor do I have spiritual envy.

39:57

Like, I don't have food envy. Like, somebody's eating

39:59

something, I care, let's eat what you want. You

40:01

know, but some people are like, you're going to

40:04

eat that? You eat meat or this is, why

40:06

you got to be a cop? Who the fuck

40:08

gave you permission for that? yeah, yeah. So. So

40:10

it doesn't threaten me if somebody believes in something,

40:12

nor do I feel like I have to convince

40:14

somebody of something. For me, it's just kind of

40:16

an observation that I have. But I still leave

40:18

room open to be wrong like I do with

40:20

everything. But I find it fascinating.

40:22

And now, so I have a different

40:25

relationship with the afterlife than I had

40:27

before. I guess it's the short. So

40:29

before, I was certain there was an

40:31

afterlife. Certain. Even as an agnostic? I

40:33

felt... there was a good possibility

40:35

like i felt if anything could

40:37

explain the phenomena of ghosts you

40:39

know right which okay so you

40:41

do believe in some of that

40:43

is like you know is ridiculous

40:45

but there's some things that might

40:47

have some meaning to it of

40:49

maybe you know seeing something or

40:51

yeah or something maybe have you

40:53

had any experiences um i've had

40:55

different things that are unexplainable i

40:57

can't remember if there are any

40:59

visionary things but i found explainable

41:01

events for sure So

41:06

that's what I say. I have room for

41:08

those types of things or whatever. Even

41:11

the whole idea of the communion

41:13

of consciousness, I guess you could

41:15

say, or whatever, where there's a

41:17

certain consciousness, it's not just culture

41:19

which has been passed down, but

41:21

kind of a consciousness which has

41:23

been passed down. I mean, there's

41:25

a theory where people feel they

41:27

can... tap into that or something

41:29

like that. Or, yeah, people inventing

41:31

things in, like, the same period.

41:33

clustering. I firmly believe in that.

41:35

Clustering is amazing. People that couldn't

41:37

possibly, that weren't connected. Amazing. Before

41:39

the world was connected, people inventing

41:41

things. Amazing. You know what

41:43

happens in comedy, too. Absolutely. Where somebody

41:45

will think of a bit and

41:47

then I thought of a bit. I

41:50

tweeted it and then somebody had

41:52

tweeted it the day before. Someone I

41:54

didn't follow. Somebody was just like, They

41:57

accused me of stealing and it was

41:59

like... Look at the Renaissance. The Renaissance had

42:01

all those great painters at that same

42:03

time in that part of the world. And

42:05

music and all that kind of stuff.

42:07

So it happens in science, it happens in

42:09

art. I've

42:11

always called that clustering, where there's

42:13

a shared kind of... consciousness

42:15

that happens like if the Wright

42:17

brothers had not been in flight I

42:19

mean in France they were doing

42:21

the same thing there were a couple

42:23

guys in France doing the same

42:26

thing so it would have happened around

42:28

the same time do you and

42:30

do you take is that would that

42:32

be part of the maybe there's

42:34

something to a god or a spirit

42:36

world maybe something more of a

42:38

spirit or like energy thing that you're

42:40

talking about you know because there

42:42

are a lot of physical laws that

42:44

we are not aware of yet

42:46

I know. Yeah. Most, in fact, most

42:48

were not aware of. So let's

42:50

say if we think about our thoughts

42:52

really are a collection of electrical

42:54

impulses that are in a vehicle that

42:57

has ability to store those electrical

42:59

impulses and allows us to continue talking

43:01

and remember things and all that

43:03

kind of stuff, too. Well, if they

43:05

are electrical, we know that, you

43:07

know, we've seen the way. impulses

43:09

can travel through the air and be connected

43:11

to things because we've seen that. We've invented

43:13

radio. We've invented telegram, all that kind of

43:16

stuff. So maybe there is

43:18

a way that things are connected in

43:20

ways that we can't see that

43:22

are on, I don't know, different physical

43:24

level that we don't know. I

43:26

insist that everything's connected just because everything

43:28

has molecules in it and atoms,

43:30

right? So when you think about it,

43:32

I'm really touching you right now

43:34

because everything's connected. Well, what I was

43:36

going to ask is do you Do

43:39

you believe that science is deciphering

43:41

God? No. Okay. I don't believe

43:43

that right now. But I've heard

43:45

arguments for that, and I have

43:47

no problem with that argument. I

43:51

feel that what science does for

43:54

us is a way to understand the

43:56

universe and understand how systems work.

43:58

But for me, I don't think it's

44:00

deciphering God. Okay. If

44:02

something was going to decipher God,

44:04

I think that would be the

44:06

role of religion. i i actually

44:08

totally just got a scientist i

44:11

totally disagree with that that part

44:13

completely because i don't think religion

44:15

religion to me is a way

44:17

of honoring god i think it's

44:19

all silly but like it's as

44:21

if god needs on whatever uh

44:23

like god's very insecure and you

44:26

need to speak well if it's

44:28

like silly um or people make

44:30

god their butler you know saying

44:32

yeah would you mind i invented

44:34

the car you um so yeah

44:36

but the so i don't find

44:38

religion to be almost it's almost

44:41

completely not related to god to

44:43

me in a way um I

44:46

think science is the opposite, to

44:48

be honest with you. But some people

44:50

just screw with that. I know

44:52

what they mean, but I'm inclined to

44:55

think that it's deciphering. Nature is...

44:57

Nature is God and it's deciphering. Whatever.

44:59

Sure. Did your life get

45:01

better as a result or worse? Or

45:03

push? But saying nature is God is making

45:05

a different statement than having God as

45:07

a separate entity than nature. Because you either

45:09

believe God invented nature, which means God

45:11

is not nature. God actually created nature. But

45:13

if you say nature is God, you

45:15

don't really need God because you already have

45:17

nature. It's all one thing.

45:19

Right. But you don't need God if you

45:21

already have nature if it's one thing. If

45:23

there's no distinction, why do you need God

45:25

for it? You already have nature. I didn't

45:27

make the distinction. They say, it's

45:29

hot in here. I think it's human.

45:32

Well, pick your lane here. I

45:36

don't think. It's cold. I

45:38

think it's all one thing. It's

45:41

red. Like, you're God,

45:43

I'm God, it's all God. whatever

45:46

right it's it's it's beyond esoteric

45:48

but um so did your life get

45:50

better or worse or push from

45:53

going from agnostic or no there was

45:55

no i have a set of

45:57

values that i live by that guide

45:59

my life so than

46:01

what i believe in is true out

46:03

in the universe how much of it's informed

46:05

by catholicism do you think oh yeah

46:07

and are you okay with that absolutely yeah

46:10

because i there are there is a

46:12

there is something to be said for like

46:14

it is the obviously parts of

46:16

it are so meaning useless and just

46:18

like you can make fun of the

46:20

ten commandments but there's a lot of

46:22

good things yeah exactly like eight of

46:24

them are and both of those are

46:26

true absolutely yeah absolutely material for jokes

46:28

absolutely sure and at the same time

46:30

there's a lot of good stuff really

46:33

good stuff that jesus said and there's

46:35

a lot of stuff that's right for

46:37

jokes yeah yeah both of those things

46:39

are true okay so that's i'm that's

46:41

very interesting that you've you've gotten less

46:43

less faith -based or whatever

46:45

well i don't know faith

46:47

-based or or the the

46:49

actual belief in that being

46:51

you know isn't necessary for

46:53

me you know yeah right

46:55

does that not contradict your

46:57

moral framework for children no

46:59

because those are rules that

47:02

are that are religious based

47:04

you know um now if

47:06

your reason if your only

47:08

reasoning for doing that is

47:10

to please god then that's

47:12

the connection that you have. And so once you

47:14

get rid of that, you say, well, I don't

47:16

have to please God anymore. If that's how you're

47:19

viewing it, then fine. But if you have a

47:21

framework for living that is a solid framework, well,

47:23

why would I abandon that? Yeah,

47:25

and you are, it is not based

47:27

on pleasing God. It's just like, I

47:29

don't know, it's just not being an

47:31

asshole. Well, also, the way that Catholicism

47:33

was always different for me from Protestantism

47:35

is like, I always felt like Protestantism,

47:37

you were going to get something from

47:39

God. It's that same type of thing.

47:41

Sitting in the pews, I hope the preacher

47:44

has a good message for me today. But Catholicism

47:46

is all about service. It's

47:49

so service -oriented, and that's one of the

47:51

things I've always liked about it. In

47:53

fact, a lot of the activities of the

47:55

church around the world are based in

47:57

service. Have you ever... Like

47:59

you're taking the attention

48:01

off of yourself. Sure. Have

48:04

you ever abandoned yourself

48:06

in a way that you

48:08

regret in service of

48:10

others? I wouldn't say

48:12

in service of others, but it's part

48:14

of that period I was talking about

48:16

where... I had forsook myself for so

48:18

long in terms of what my real

48:20

emotional needs were and expression and all

48:22

that stuff. And the learning of that

48:25

was a huge, big deal for me.

48:27

So it wasn't explicit as doing it

48:29

in that way. Did you find that...

48:31

But I've never done it in a

48:33

practical way like that where, you

48:35

know, in the way

48:37

that I think that you're asking. Well,

48:40

no, I've just done it. I

48:42

mean, I think women probably do it

48:44

more than men. Oh, yeah. But

48:46

the service... yeah all service all the

48:48

time yeah and then you end

48:50

up kind of yourself and you abandon

48:52

yourself and you end up very

48:54

build resentment yeah um or just be

48:57

or martyr yourself or whatever let's

48:59

do some actual blocks and that's just

49:01

the ones i threw at them

49:03

yeah you know you sign up for

49:05

something you forget about it after

49:07

the trial period ends then you're charged

49:09

month after month after month the

49:11

subscriptions are there but you're not using

49:14

them I mean, you're not using

49:16

the service. In fact, I just learned

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N -E -A -L. Rocket Money. Here's

50:22

a good bombing story. I went on

50:24

a date with a woman, second date.

50:26

I was doing blocks in New York,

50:28

invited her to come see it. And

50:30

I think the worst show of the,

50:32

I know how many I did, 60

50:34

shows? Worst one I did. And the

50:36

lady ghosted me. You almost

50:38

have to, you almost have to respect

50:41

it. You know what I mean? Look,

50:43

not every show is good. Not every

50:45

joke, you know, delivers. But Harry's. always

50:47

delivers they send the best quality razors

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50:53

i don't sometimes i when i really

50:55

need to go tight on the neck

50:58

i'll use the uh the blade and

51:00

uh and i tried harry's because i

51:02

know someone who works there and uh

51:04

i paid for it i did it

51:06

and uh it's real tight it was

51:08

it was inexpensive and it's just a

51:10

good razor like i don't know what

51:12

to say it's just a good like

51:15

if you're trying to look at a

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rate like a you know razor harry's

51:19

is a good razor And it's a

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good deal. Like doesn't feel cheap in

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your hand. It's like, it's just, it's

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like a nice, I didn't get nicked.

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I didn't get cut. It didn't feel

51:29

chintzy. It didn't feel gross. Oh, I

51:32

also tried Harry's hair gel, which is,

51:34

not only did I like the pun,

51:36

I like the product. I'm not wearing

51:38

it right now, but is it a

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it. I got it in my travel

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trial set. harrys.com slash neil. God bless. You've

52:08

got procrastination and messiness, which

52:11

just seems like kind of similar.

52:13

Well, all right. You've got

52:15

procrastination and messiness. They're definitely related.

52:17

So what's the downside of

52:19

messiness? Because I'm pretty messy, but

52:21

like I don't lose anything

52:23

for the most part. I don't.

52:25

And I'm a bit of

52:27

a procrastinator, but everything's been turned

52:29

in on time ultimately. Well,

52:31

I think people like me who

52:33

I'm not. big messy but it can

52:36

start to get bad and you

52:38

know then I'll you know correct or

52:40

whatever but I'm usually attracted to

52:42

someone that's the opposite you know you

52:44

know and so that's a problem

52:46

you know and so that can push

52:48

you being the wrong person again

52:50

exactly you know that's exactly right but

52:53

is cleanliness they're they're cleaning up

52:55

is not wrong but mine being messy

52:57

is you know is it you're

52:59

not doing it against them. This

53:01

is actually one of my issues with

53:03

my girlfriend, which is like the

53:05

things that I am, I was before

53:08

I met you. This isn't at

53:10

you. I'm just this. I'm

53:12

not doing it to spite you. I'm just

53:14

doing it. My ex -wife was the extreme

53:16

of this, and I remember this is how

53:18

bad she was. So I'm not exaggerating. There

53:20

was a newspaper on our coffee table, and

53:22

she said, the living room's a mess. I'm

53:24

like, the living room's a mess. The

53:27

newspaper's on the coffee table, that's it. I said, you

53:29

afraid of? I don't know if she said this or

53:32

I'm making it up. She said that people are going

53:34

to come by and see them. People are going to

53:36

come by and see that people live here is what

53:38

they're going to think. But

53:40

there was the judgment attached to it

53:42

that you're going to be exposed for

53:44

being messy to the world. used to

53:46

yell at a girlfriend that she seemed

53:48

to be afraid that a... a group

53:50

of gay jurors was going to come

53:53

and judge our interior. That's exactly right.

53:55

Like, they're never coming. Right. They're not

53:57

coming. And I would say, have a

53:59

seat, you know? Yeah. Hey, I'm, yeah,

54:01

have a, this is a newspaper, I

54:03

drop it sometimes. the paper yet? Yes. I

54:06

guess that's bad. Right. But the church

54:08

thinks you're all sinners. Yeah. And here's

54:10

the flip side of it, though. Because

54:13

my parents are more extreme, my father

54:15

is a bit of a hoarder. I'm

54:17

afraid of, I don't want that to

54:19

happen to me. You know, and my

54:21

mother can, she's not as bad as

54:23

my dad, but I see their behavior

54:26

sometimes as sadness personified, you know, or

54:28

like unhappiness personified, the mess. You know,

54:30

mess here, mess there. And so that

54:32

thing makes me... not like that, you

54:34

know? So I do, I don't, I

54:36

would rather not be messy, you know?

54:39

So I do, you know, I just,

54:41

I'm not that all the way, but

54:43

I'm like messy for a while and

54:45

then I'll clean, you know? Like, well,

54:47

clean is not the right word because

54:49

it's not like it's dirty, but it's

54:51

like, I'll put things in the right

54:54

place or have someone to help me

54:56

do that, you know? But I don't

54:58

mind my office being a mess because

55:00

as you say, it doesn't hurt my

55:02

feelings. That's the other thing. We don't

55:04

really see it that way because It

55:07

doesn't affect us emotionally. Women

55:09

are affected by spaces. Emotionally. Oh,

55:11

my God. They anthropomorphize spaces, I

55:13

believe. I really believe that. I

55:15

really believe that women interpret physical

55:17

spaces as they interpret it as

55:19

a person. Yeah, that's interesting. And

55:21

I just don't, as a guy,

55:23

I don't see it after about

55:25

a week. I just see, like,

55:27

the couch and the bed and

55:29

the TV. Yeah. And the nightstand.

55:31

It's very stereotypical, but, like, I

55:33

genuinely believe that. Yeah. Because they're

55:35

very affected by it, and I

55:37

just don't. I guess if I'm,

55:39

like, if I stay at, like,

55:41

a crappy motel, I am affected

55:43

by that. me too. that. But

55:45

I think that has to do

55:47

with safety. someone else's stuff, too,

55:49

yeah. Yeah, it's been a lot

55:51

of people's stuff. Yeah. And a

55:53

lot of people. Exactly. And they

55:55

haven't treated well. Exactly.

55:57

And it's also dangerous. Right.

55:59

Like, where you can hear

56:01

the street. or you

56:04

can hear the people in the hallway

56:06

or you can hear like really it's not

56:08

it's not it doesn't feel very safe

56:10

like that i'm definitely affected it's like george

56:12

carlin's joke your is stuff and their

56:14

stuff is shit yes uh it's funny you

56:16

were you just did carlin and you

56:18

did a bit of a black scent well

56:20

i was doing george carlin well he

56:23

did a little black exactly your stuff is

56:25

shit and my stuff i'm a jazz

56:27

yeah have you noticed that their stuff is

56:29

and your is Yeah,

56:31

alright, so I'm forgiving you

56:33

for messiness and procrastination. Procrastination

56:35

is in my career though,

56:38

like with writing, mainly writing,

56:40

you know, because like

56:42

most writers I know, like people

56:44

say, Larry, why do you write? And I say,

56:46

because I have a deadline, like otherwise, why would

56:48

I do that? Because it's always painful,

56:50

it's never not painful. I always feel any

56:52

writer worth their salt. thinks it's going to

56:54

be horrible. When I meet young writers, they

56:56

go, I'm great. And I go, OK. I'm

57:00

like, all right. The writers

57:02

I respect never uttered those words,

57:04

which makes them try to

57:06

be better all the time. My

57:10

writing is only good because someone bought it

57:12

or because other people said so. It's never because

57:14

I think it's the best. I

57:16

may feel more fondly about it later, but sometimes it's

57:19

years later. let's play it in front of an audience.

57:21

I'll look back and I'll go, oh, that was pretty

57:23

good. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was.

57:25

I never watched, when I did The Nightly Show,

57:28

could not watch it. I thought I didn't

57:30

like my voice. And then I...

57:32

When it was off, I'd watch something and

57:34

go, that was actually pretty good. I

57:36

could appreciate it. But I would judge it

57:38

way too harshly. And I think some

57:40

of that is at the root of procrastination.

57:42

Because the first part of procrastination is,

57:44

I think it's not going to be any

57:46

good. So that prevents me from starting. Or

57:49

prevents me from getting far, let's say. And

57:52

then the good thing about a deadline

57:54

after a while, the fear of not

57:56

finishing it overtakes the fear of it

57:59

not being any good. So then, you

58:01

know, yeah. So then I have to.

58:03

Yeah, it's a carrot. It's all that

58:05

stick gets bigger. Exactly. And then I'm

58:07

able to finish something. So that's why

58:09

deadlines are important to me. Professional deadlines.

58:11

I completely agree. Personal deadlines. Personal deadlines.

58:13

I'm too smart. to make those work.

58:15

Because I go, nah, that's personal. You

58:17

ain't got shit on me. I ain't

58:19

got to finish that shit. Like, oh,

58:21

personal meaning. Well, even - Larry, you

58:23

got to finish this in a week.

58:25

I know. Nah, nigga. Nah, nah, nah.

58:27

You can't trick me, nigga. Thank

58:30

you. Thank you for using the in -word. It's been a

58:32

while. I didn't know

58:34

if Chappelle had been around while. No, he hadn't

58:36

seen him. So, but

58:39

that is, with a personal being like,

58:41

meet me at seven. Or

58:43

so -and -so wants it by Friday.

58:46

It has to be professional deadline. Right.

58:48

Yeah. And even then, I can

58:50

be a little cagey with it depending

58:52

on what it is. But it'll

58:54

get done, you know. Yeah. If I'm

58:56

in production, everything gets done on

58:58

time. course. Everything gets done on time.

59:00

Because I'm responsible more than I'm

59:02

fearful, you know. Yeah. But...

59:05

i'm free like you say development stuff

59:07

like that i could take forever to do

59:09

things depends what it is so i

59:11

need hard deadlines from bosses who are paying

59:13

me do they do you explain that

59:15

to them no of course not i'm gonna

59:17

give it up like that all my

59:19

power yeah and there's different types of deadlines

59:21

like if something's gonna go away you

59:23

know if you don't turn it in you

59:26

know or yeah or you have to

59:28

shoot on a certain day right there's different

59:30

types of deadlines but and that's kind

59:32

of where the catholic thing comes in i

59:34

find Speaking of Chappelle, we

59:36

had real different approaches

59:38

to punctuality. Oh, interesting. Where

59:40

it's like, it was

59:42

like, dude, we have to

59:44

write. We don't have,

59:46

I know what's, we've agreed

59:48

to do 13 of

59:50

these in 13 weeks. Right.

59:52

If we don't start

59:54

writing now, when we were

59:56

writing Half Baked, he

59:59

actually said like a year

1:00:01

later, We were writing

1:00:03

half -baked we had to turn in the

1:00:05

next day and we started watching Hollywood

1:00:07

shuffle It was on cable and I

1:00:09

was like if we don't start Now

1:00:11

we're never and he literally was here

1:00:13

later. He was like you were absolutely

1:00:16

right We'd still be watching Hollywood shuffle.

1:00:18

Yeah, if you hadn't just turned the

1:00:20

television off, right? Yeah, when I have

1:00:22

those kind of deadlines, obviously you can't

1:00:24

reschedule Monday. Monday's coming whether you like

1:00:26

it or not. Yeah. So I'm more

1:00:28

responsible than I am fearful. So when

1:00:31

I'm in the position where I have

1:00:33

to get something done, like being a

1:00:35

producer or writing a movie that's going

1:00:37

to shoot, definitely I'm showing up getting

1:00:39

it done. Yeah, I just think it's

1:00:41

whereas he couldn't, even that didn't mean

1:00:43

that much to him. That's shocking to

1:00:46

me, yeah. It's

1:00:49

just like a life. ethos

1:00:51

kind of like seeing the world where

1:00:53

it's like it'll just it's like you

1:00:55

know go on stage late go on

1:00:57

at one in the morning because like

1:00:59

i don't know it's what i felt

1:01:01

like going on not thinking like people

1:01:03

have jobs and it just it's i

1:01:06

find it it is useful yeah he

1:01:08

is a better writer than me do

1:01:10

you know i mean like he is

1:01:12

more talented than me and i don't

1:01:14

know if that has to do with

1:01:16

well it's a different talent it it's

1:01:18

it's he's better at

1:01:20

i mean it's a i guess

1:01:22

it's different but i would say like

1:01:24

he can throw the ball faster

1:01:26

than me i can throw the ball

1:01:28

fast but somebody he can throw

1:01:30

the ball like okay i know you

1:01:32

mean um so i and i

1:01:34

wonder if that governor governs the comedy

1:01:37

as well meaning like where i

1:01:39

think rationally i think rationally across the

1:01:41

board and it's kind of the

1:01:43

basis of my act and basis of

1:01:45

things i've written but it's like

1:01:47

he thinks It's all

1:01:49

non -linear. Mine, like, very linear

1:01:51

in a very ideally entertaining

1:01:53

way. And he is all

1:01:56

non -linear, including time. Yeah.

1:01:58

Just -linear. That's

1:02:00

just the way his system works. Yes. Oh, that

1:02:02

makes sense. That's part of

1:02:04

his genius is connecting in that

1:02:07

way. Yes. Right. I get it. And

1:02:09

it's like, and part of it

1:02:11

is you just get shit when you

1:02:13

get it. Yeah. But it is.

1:02:15

unique when you're in a system where

1:02:17

it has to get done. I'm

1:02:19

very, this is an old term, but

1:02:21

Rolodex, I don't know how to

1:02:23

use it. Like

1:02:25

my brain works for it's like, here's

1:02:28

the thing. That's

1:02:31

the right. Those are the two right things

1:02:33

that go with that. Like all the information

1:02:35

comes down on this side and all the

1:02:37

opposite information. call it grid brain. Or the

1:02:39

information that makes this funny together with that.

1:02:41

Yes. Defines that now. You know, and that's

1:02:43

how my brain does it in an instant.

1:02:45

Yes. Factual. I can

1:02:47

literally say factual setup. Yeah. You

1:02:50

know, like twist. Like you and I

1:02:52

are not intimidated when someone says, we need

1:02:54

you to write five pages of jokes. We're

1:02:56

like, okay. Yeah, I knew that. No problem. Three

1:02:59

of them would be good. Right. Well, that's not

1:03:01

the issue, right? But we know how to do that

1:03:03

process. Like you say, read the paper and get

1:03:05

some jokes out of this. Read the paper. That's even

1:03:07

better. I don't have to make something up. Yeah.

1:03:11

Having written with him for

1:03:13

years, I couldn't tell you

1:03:15

how his system works. Yeah.

1:03:17

Which is... interesting. How does

1:03:19

Dave construct a joke? Like,

1:03:21

does he start with that big

1:03:23

reveal that he's towards? No, I think

1:03:26

that that's like the last thing.

1:03:28

that happens organically. I think that happens,

1:03:30

I think. I'm not,

1:03:32

even I'm not an authority. Have

1:03:34

you helped him understand him?

1:03:36

Not really. If I have, it's

1:03:39

like... It's

1:03:41

that thing. You know I mean?

1:03:43

It's like you're giving examples. Here's

1:03:45

another example. why you can write

1:03:47

for other people too. Yeah, and

1:03:49

I'm sure you can as well.

1:03:52

In fact, I always could do that better than

1:03:54

I could write for myself. And then

1:03:56

learning to write for myself took a whole different

1:03:58

type of skill set. I

1:04:01

can do both. But

1:04:03

I could explain. I

1:04:05

guess I could explain my system,

1:04:07

like my voice, but... I was just,

1:04:09

remember, better at empath. Oh,

1:04:11

well, that's... No, you have that written

1:04:13

down. He has written down as a

1:04:16

block. Empath slash sociopath. What does that

1:04:18

mean? Well, I think for that,

1:04:20

the empath thing, I kind of explained a

1:04:22

little bit, but I actually have been an

1:04:24

actual empath in some ways, which really kind

1:04:26

of shocked me, you know? So...

1:04:28

So this is... You say that as a

1:04:30

person who felt like you couldn't feel your own...

1:04:32

You weren't allowed to feel your own feelings.

1:04:34

Correct. Because someone else's

1:04:36

were more important, right? Right. So that

1:04:38

was the emotional component of it,

1:04:40

which is fine. But then there was

1:04:42

actual physicalization of that that shocked

1:04:44

me. When my wife was

1:04:47

pregnant, she was about to give

1:04:49

birth. We

1:04:51

had about a month to go,

1:04:53

right? And she had a... uh pregnancy

1:04:55

during most of the summer and

1:04:57

it was really tough those last few

1:04:59

months really hot hottest time you

1:05:01

know you got this big thing and

1:05:03

sunny you know we did all

1:05:06

the lamaze and all that stuff but

1:05:08

i remember she had some really

1:05:10

she developed some really bad lower back

1:05:12

pain it's very common you know

1:05:14

it can be really debilitating and uh

1:05:16

of course i felt sorry for

1:05:18

and everything but um one day my

1:05:20

back just started really hurting I

1:05:23

mean really painful, and I don't mean just a

1:05:25

little bit, like I could barely get up type

1:05:27

of pain. And I'm like, what the fuck is

1:05:29

going on? And I have to think, what did

1:05:31

I do? I'm going

1:05:33

through my mind thinking, and I could not

1:05:35

get it. A couple weeks, like two

1:05:37

weeks go by. It did not let up.

1:05:40

So now I'm really concerned. And she

1:05:42

still has hers. Yeah, she still has hers.

1:05:44

And I go to the doctor, you know, they

1:05:47

couldn't find anything. They were saying stuff like, well,

1:05:49

maybe it's pleurisy. I mean, they were saying stuff

1:05:51

like that. I didn't even know what that was.

1:05:53

I still don't, really. Yeah, I still don't. Don't

1:05:55

look it up. Yeah, it feels like one of

1:05:57

those 19th century elements, you know. Yeah, it seems

1:05:59

like something someone in my mother's neighborhood had. Yeah,

1:06:01

like the Artful Dodger would get there. Those

1:06:05

kind of things. But I could not

1:06:07

explain it. It was so painful. my

1:06:10

wife uh when she had she gave

1:06:12

birth it was kind of it was

1:06:14

a little difficult she had a long

1:06:16

uh labor and ended up being cesarean

1:06:18

sun came out and everything and um

1:06:20

he was in icu for a little

1:06:22

bit um having a little trouble but

1:06:24

he did okay you know and uh

1:06:26

and i remember uh just sitting in

1:06:28

the hospital because she had to stay

1:06:31

there for a few days and i'm

1:06:33

going hmm hmm wait a second that's

1:06:35

weird my back doesn't hurt anymore

1:06:37

yeah like what the fuck you

1:06:39

know and it was so weird

1:06:41

and I instantly knew what was

1:06:44

going on instantly that I was

1:06:46

sharing that pain my body shared

1:06:48

that pain I instantly

1:06:50

knew it, Neil. That was the last time

1:06:52

in that marriage that you've shared your

1:06:54

pain with her, according to her. But it

1:06:56

happened again with our next child. It

1:06:58

wasn't as intense. And when it

1:07:00

happened, I instantly knew what it was this

1:07:02

time. And I only asked her for two

1:07:04

weeks. It didn't last as long. Did hers

1:07:06

dissipate at all? No. She just had the

1:07:08

same amount, and you also Well, hers wasn't

1:07:10

as bad the second time. Okay. Was yours

1:07:13

as bad? No. Okay, that's interesting. But I

1:07:15

knew exactly what it was when it happened.

1:07:17

Yeah. Right on schedule. And you

1:07:19

were like, we gotta get this baby going. She

1:07:21

had cesarean, came out, gone. And

1:07:23

I thought, there is something going on

1:07:25

here. And so that was physical empathy.

1:07:28

Not just emotional, that was physical. I'm

1:07:30

like, what the fuck is that? To

1:07:33

have the physical manifestation of

1:07:35

that is a whole different category.

1:07:38

And I can have that sometimes. I

1:07:40

realize when I, like sometimes there's

1:07:43

movies and there's emotions and then I

1:07:45

start feeling that or that type

1:07:47

of thing. But then, but this is

1:07:49

interesting. And I realized I was

1:07:51

using a lot of things outside of

1:07:53

me to have the things that

1:07:56

maybe I wasn't, felt like I couldn't,

1:07:58

you know, have permission for or

1:08:00

whatever, you know, because I had emotions.

1:08:02

Well, that's, they say about. autism

1:08:04

that you'll model other people's emotions, right?

1:08:06

Sure. Is that what it is,

1:08:09

do you think? I wasn't modeling. Because

1:08:11

it seems like it's involuntary. It

1:08:13

was experiencing, which is different. It

1:08:16

hasn't happened in as

1:08:18

intense a way, but

1:08:21

little things have been

1:08:23

that. But the other

1:08:25

thing was... things

1:08:27

would happen, the sociopath part of it,

1:08:29

and I wouldn't feel anything. And

1:08:32

I've always been concerned about this. It's not

1:08:34

as bad as it used to be. No,

1:08:37

seriously, no. This is why I'm a comedian.

1:08:39

No, it's funny. I know what you're saying.

1:08:41

I know exactly what you're saying. dropped dead

1:08:43

in front of me, I'd start thinking other

1:08:45

jokes. Sometimes I wouldn't

1:08:47

be sad. I might be shocked. Bad

1:08:50

things could happen. it

1:08:53

wouldn't hit me the way it would hit other people.

1:08:56

And I would be concerned about that. I'm

1:08:58

like, how come I'm not feeling this grief

1:09:00

that people are feeling or whatever? Well, then

1:09:02

you could tell yourself grief's nonlinear. I

1:09:04

mean, you don't know when it

1:09:06

could hit you and it never

1:09:08

hits you. I had a different

1:09:11

relationship with it. It took a

1:09:13

couple of events, I think, to

1:09:15

truly feel that. it's okay to

1:09:17

experience those things because you have

1:09:19

those emotions. It's okay to experience

1:09:21

the lack of or it's okay

1:09:23

to experience the actual grief? Yeah,

1:09:25

because you actually, those emotions are

1:09:28

there. They just didn't have permission

1:09:30

to have an outlet. That's what

1:09:32

I realized later. Did you experience

1:09:34

them as grief? Do

1:09:36

you feel like you're going to experience

1:09:38

it all eventually? Do you

1:09:40

know I mean? No, no, no. I've

1:09:42

had my... This is the past when

1:09:45

I'm talking about it. not so much

1:09:47

now. Sometimes that kind of thing can

1:09:49

come up, you know, where everybody is

1:09:51

feeling something that is really intense about

1:09:53

something and I'm not, you know? Yeah. Do

1:09:56

you eventually feel it? Kind of?

1:09:58

Yeah. Are things that

1:10:00

you experience more than other

1:10:02

people? Yeah, that's probably true

1:10:04

too. Probably. It might

1:10:06

not be. But not in... I'm

1:10:08

not an intense feelings person, so, like,

1:10:10

I don't get triggered a lot

1:10:12

the way a lot of people get

1:10:14

triggered by things. Like, some people

1:10:16

get triggered so fast that they get

1:10:19

angry, and those things happen. Those

1:10:21

lights don't come in fast for me.

1:10:23

Anger does for me, but that's

1:10:25

about the list. Yeah. But I wonder

1:10:27

if, you know, I did that

1:10:29

joke about people that are good at

1:10:31

some are optimized for that thing

1:10:33

and pretty much nothing else, right? You

1:10:35

ever play a video game where

1:10:37

you make the character? And you have

1:10:39

like a hundred points and get

1:10:41

a distributed between like dexterity and marksmanship

1:10:43

and speed. That's what God does. And

1:10:46

sometimes he fucks up.

1:10:49

We have a lot of

1:10:51

analytical. Yeah. And a

1:10:53

lot of pattern recognition. A

1:10:55

lot of pattern recognition.

1:10:58

And we don't get hyper.

1:11:01

you know emotional about other stuff I

1:11:03

think it's I think I understand that

1:11:05

it's called sociopathy I understand that yeah

1:11:07

and I'm not being glib when say

1:11:09

that right but I'm saying like I

1:11:11

think if you don't kill anybody oh

1:11:14

no no I'm not a psychopath right

1:11:16

that's the next stage and I'm not

1:11:18

a sociopath not by any means but

1:11:20

I think what it really is like

1:11:22

culture but could you be a moral

1:11:24

sociopath sure it's called a surgeon I

1:11:30

mean, don't we

1:11:32

need surgeons? No, surgeons

1:11:34

are moral sociopaths. Yes. They have to

1:11:36

be complete sociopaths to cut human beings

1:11:38

open. Yes. And to think they're great.

1:11:40

They all think they're great at it.

1:11:42

not go home feeling fucked. Yeah, and

1:11:44

they lose some of them. Oh,

1:11:46

their heart's going to fail in

1:11:48

a week. Oh, okay. I should probably

1:11:50

tell them. Yeah. Yeah. But

1:11:52

my point, you made my point,

1:11:55

which is like, don't we need

1:11:57

those people? Thousand percent. Should a

1:11:59

surgeon do, should a surgeon, who's

1:12:01

a surgeon should not be having

1:12:03

intense feelings. Right. Right. that. It's

1:12:05

a joke I did about like, I don't

1:12:07

want certain people to have a good work -life

1:12:09

balance. Yes. I just don't. Right. Should

1:12:12

a surgeon, modern, the

1:12:14

modern. Quality surgeon. Say again?

1:12:16

Quality surgeon. A real sociopath.

1:12:19

Right. Should

1:12:21

a modern, the modern world would tell a

1:12:23

surgeon that he needs to get in touch

1:12:25

with his feelings. His or her feelings. Does

1:12:27

he? Or she? You do not want to

1:12:29

do that. Yeah. Yeah. And so people that

1:12:31

date doctors sometimes, that is such an asshole.

1:12:33

I'm like, well, what's his name? I'd like

1:12:36

to. He

1:12:38

sounds fantastic. have availability? Yeah. Yeah,

1:12:41

no, that's absolutely right. Yeah,

1:12:43

that's what you want. Yeah. So

1:12:45

I'm not, I would never

1:12:47

be so. bold

1:12:49

as to say that you and

1:12:52

I are like surgeons or that comedians

1:12:54

are like whatever now having said

1:12:56

that there's a lot more surgeons than

1:12:58

good comedians but we yes but

1:13:00

we are observing life in what we

1:13:02

do you know we're antennas you

1:13:05

know yeah so many times well some

1:13:07

artists Being an antenna affects

1:13:09

them emotionally and they mow back. But

1:13:11

we interpret is what we do most

1:13:13

of the time. We get signals and

1:13:15

we go, oh, blah, blah, blah. And

1:13:17

so there's not necessarily has to

1:13:19

be emotion with that. It could just

1:13:22

be an observation. Yes. There

1:13:25

can be emotion, but

1:13:27

there doesn't have to be.

1:13:29

I would argue that

1:13:31

getting emotional is going to

1:13:33

probably hinder the pattern

1:13:35

recognition joke. process. I

1:13:38

mean, it can help, but I

1:13:40

would say 70 -30, it hurts. It

1:13:42

hurts 70 % of the time. It

1:13:44

helps 30 % of the time. I

1:13:46

would agree. I'm probably better to be

1:13:48

dispassionate about that and then put

1:13:50

the emotion in afterwards. And

1:13:53

this is another thing. Yeah, you do

1:13:55

the fake, treacly setup. But

1:13:57

this is the thing that I actually

1:13:59

sort of argue, not even argue with

1:14:01

my girlfriend, but this is the thing

1:14:04

where I defend myself, where I'm like,

1:14:06

I'm not going to be that quick

1:14:08

to empathy about me. I'll be quick

1:14:10

to empathy about other problems in your

1:14:12

life. But if

1:14:14

you criticize me, my

1:14:17

first instinct is not

1:14:19

going to be empathetic

1:14:21

about my behavior. I

1:14:23

was like, I don't have

1:14:25

the capacity. But I have other

1:14:27

capacities. I'm

1:14:32

exonerating you from your sociopath.

1:14:34

Thank you. And a lot of

1:14:36

people conflate criticism with love.

1:14:39

And that is not a good

1:14:41

conflation. They're called women. Go

1:14:43

ahead. See how I'm letting you

1:14:45

say that? I let you

1:14:47

have surgery now? Well, my ex

1:14:50

-wife went through that. That was

1:14:52

a relationship with how she

1:14:54

was brought up. It's

1:14:57

so clear when you're not

1:14:59

in that context, but many people

1:15:02

feel it's a very Asian

1:15:04

cultural thing where especially the tiger

1:15:06

mom to the young tiger

1:15:08

girl. It's their love language. Especially

1:15:10

to young girls. Criticism

1:15:12

is the primary form of communication

1:15:15

that for them is an act

1:15:17

of love. But criticism can be

1:15:19

very destructive to your soul, to

1:15:21

your psyche, to so many things.

1:15:24

What do you feel about...

1:15:26

uh the the talk in the

1:15:28

black community or like the

1:15:30

if you don't instill some

1:15:32

sort of physical harm into

1:15:34

your child the police eventually

1:15:36

will What do you mean? Meaning

1:15:38

there's a thing of like,

1:15:40

you know, black

1:15:44

parents whipping their children or get the

1:15:46

switch or some sort of physical harm.

1:15:48

And I'd always heard it explained of

1:15:50

like, well, if they don't, the idea

1:15:52

is if the parents don't do it,

1:15:54

eventually white society finally eventually will. I

1:15:56

think those things I think are more

1:15:58

cultural and they're more about a time.

1:16:01

you know that's just how it wasn't just

1:16:03

black people that's how people were punished

1:16:06

back yeah in a certain time you know

1:16:08

many cultures punished like that with a

1:16:10

belt or that type of thing i mean

1:16:12

rich prioris did the routine with the

1:16:14

i mean everybody related to that getting the

1:16:16

switch from yeah outside you had to

1:16:18

go get you know your own strap to

1:16:21

beat your own ass with yeah which

1:16:23

is so true but um because it's it's

1:16:25

not in the culture now so to

1:16:27

me it's more of a of a It's

1:16:29

justification. Parents just have permission to beat

1:16:31

the shit out of you, really. They sure

1:16:33

did. You didn't have to be their

1:16:36

kid. That's exactly correct. They were supposed to

1:16:38

beat any child they saw getting out

1:16:40

alive. But believe me, white kids had the

1:16:42

shit beat out of them, too. I

1:16:44

know. In many different ways. I mean, my

1:16:46

ex -roommate, I remember, he's... Gaylord? Yeah, his

1:16:48

father, he... will punch those kids you

1:16:50

know i mean do some real physical i

1:16:53

hope he talked about in therapy and

1:16:55

then you you siphoned it exactly and a

1:16:57

great guy too and i met him

1:16:59

but of course that was how they that's

1:17:01

how they communicated yes through physical violence

1:17:03

yeah yeah and they were they were actually

1:17:05

better than their parents they were less

1:17:08

violent than their parents yeah somehow uh you

1:17:10

have here uh liking to be alone Yeah.

1:17:13

I thought you were related to that

1:17:15

one. Yeah. That one's hard to explain

1:17:17

when you're in a relationship. It's really

1:17:19

hard. I know. It's another one of

1:17:21

those things of like, this isn't against

1:17:23

you. Yeah, I know. But it is.

1:17:25

They feel that. Now, my ex -wife,

1:17:27

ironically, she felt the same way I

1:17:29

did on that. We never had a

1:17:31

conflict with that. We could always go

1:17:33

off to our own spaces and that

1:17:35

type of thing. And that was awesome.

1:17:37

That was great. But everyone else I've

1:17:39

been with before and after are threatened

1:17:41

by that. Yeah, I guess

1:17:43

I just don't believe that anyone

1:17:45

has an unlimited appetite for me

1:17:47

or anyone else. I don't even

1:17:49

have it, yeah. Yeah,

1:17:51

I sleep eight hours a day

1:17:54

just to get away. Yeah,

1:17:56

to take a break. Exactly, exactly.

1:17:58

I actually believe that's what drugs

1:18:00

are for a lot of people.

1:18:02

It's like, get me out of

1:18:05

this consciousness for five hours. I

1:18:07

just don't want to... the same

1:18:09

thoughts and the same patterns, just

1:18:11

like, I'll risk death. I'm

1:18:14

totally willing to risk death to just

1:18:16

get out of this fucking, this incessant

1:18:18

nonsense. Yeah, for me it's different. For

1:18:20

me it's kind of the inverse of

1:18:23

that, you know, notice I say inverse

1:18:25

instead of the opposite. Yeah, you're a

1:18:27

smart guy. Throw those people out there.

1:18:30

It's more to get away from that. so

1:18:32

I could be alone. That's really what it

1:18:34

is me. Get away from other people's nonsense?

1:18:36

Absolutely. Of course. I just need

1:18:38

time to be an antenna, too. I need

1:18:40

input time. I want to know what's happening in

1:18:42

the world. I want to think about things.

1:18:44

Maybe I want to practice a couple of magic

1:18:46

tricks. Maybe I want to read the paper.

1:18:48

Maybe I want to do this. And I want

1:18:50

to do it alone. That's

1:18:53

the other key, is I do

1:18:55

want to do it alone. It goes

1:18:57

to the empath -sociopath thing. It's like,

1:18:59

I am... As much of a

1:19:01

curmudgeon as I may seem or whatever,

1:19:03

I'm very susceptible to other people's

1:19:05

energy. Yeah. Like I will take on,

1:19:07

I'll worry that I'm not behaving

1:19:09

well for them. Yeah. Am I not

1:19:11

holding up my end of some

1:19:13

bargain I don't know about? And I

1:19:15

need to, in order to shut

1:19:17

that off, I just need to get

1:19:19

away from people. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:19:21

if there's a lot of people in

1:19:23

a room that I don't know,

1:19:25

I will always go off somewhere, you

1:19:27

know. I'm not good about, hey,

1:19:29

everybody, I don't know you. I'm this.

1:19:32

the opposite of that. When

1:19:34

I did comedy clubs, I

1:19:36

never related to those guys

1:19:38

who stayed afterwards selling eyeballs. Bless

1:19:41

Vic Dunlap who did that, but mixing

1:19:43

with the crowd. I'd always be off with

1:19:45

a couple of people just having a

1:19:47

couple of beers because I already got. I

1:19:49

already got the people already. I had

1:19:51

that experience with a lot of people. That's

1:19:53

what going on stage was for. But

1:19:55

after stage was not for that. After stage

1:19:57

is for something else. Most of the

1:19:59

time when there's a group of people, I'm

1:20:02

just worried I'm not... It feels like

1:20:04

a wedding where you're like, okay, I gotta

1:20:06

go. What's

1:20:08

the right social situation for you? Because

1:20:10

I think mine is one -on -one. But

1:20:12

I think some people like four. Some

1:20:15

people like six. There's no number. whether

1:20:17

or not small talk is going

1:20:19

to take place uh -huh that's what the

1:20:22

issue is it'd be one -on -one and

1:20:24

it would be the worst thing i

1:20:26

have to get out of here yeah

1:20:28

you know it could be 20 but

1:20:30

it could be fantastic because there's some

1:20:32

unbelievable conversations going on that doesn't require

1:20:34

me to have to explain everything about

1:20:37

me you know yes or remedial communication

1:20:39

yeah whatever how was my flight let

1:20:41

me tell you oh man so i

1:20:43

don't like like Christmas parties, things like

1:20:45

that. I remember saying this to somebody at a party,

1:20:47

and I think I pissed them off, like, fuck you. I

1:20:50

said, I can't stand small talk. And I

1:20:52

think they thought I was talking about them, and

1:20:54

I wasn't. I was making a comment. But

1:20:56

I realized, I said, you know what? I don't

1:20:58

go to a lot of parties and stuff

1:21:00

like that. And I realized, because I don't want

1:21:03

to. I don't want to stand around and

1:21:05

just not talk about stuff. I would much rather

1:21:07

meet some friends at a club or a

1:21:09

place where we could talk, have some drinks, shoot

1:21:11

the shit, do whatever. The

1:21:13

fun thing about comedy clips when I

1:21:15

was doing stand -up was hanging out

1:21:17

with the comics that I liked afterwards.

1:21:19

We'd go somewhere and do all that

1:21:21

kind of stuff more so than being

1:21:23

around a lot of people in the

1:21:25

club type of thing. Yeah, but

1:21:27

I guess people would

1:21:30

say that that's antisocial. The

1:21:35

good news of

1:21:37

COVID was introvert. got

1:21:39

a lot of got a lot

1:21:41

of shine oh man my son

1:21:43

was in heaven it's like now

1:21:45

all the world was like yeah

1:21:47

yeah it was amazing and now

1:21:49

it's I think it's more accepted

1:21:51

than it was that was an interesting

1:21:54

time I really liked it there

1:21:56

was some stuff I like some

1:21:58

stuff I wasn't crazy about there

1:22:00

was yeah it was interesting it's

1:22:02

funny because when you were asking

1:22:04

me early about unpopular opinions and

1:22:06

everything COVID really exposed a lot of

1:22:09

like bullshit generalizations that different sides

1:22:11

had you know give me some it

1:22:13

really did you know like it

1:22:15

really exposed how much the left fucking

1:22:17

hates a fucking loves rules oh

1:22:19

and loves bureaucracy they fucking can't get

1:22:22

enough of it yep and it's

1:22:24

like stop it motherfucker like i'm not

1:22:26

gonna put on a mask in

1:22:28

my car go fuck yourself you know

1:22:30

i'm not gonna put a mask

1:22:32

to walk outside you know yeah it's

1:22:34

some of these things are so

1:22:36

over the top like And

1:22:38

now some of it is paying the

1:22:40

price, like not being sensible about children

1:22:42

and their effect with COVID. It was

1:22:44

just sticking to the rules. the

1:22:46

rules are for everybody, and you're an

1:22:48

asshole if you don't go by them. It

1:22:51

was so over the top. Ezra Klein

1:22:53

had a very good observation recently about the

1:22:55

difference between the right and the left.

1:22:57

The problem on the right is the personality

1:22:59

type has become autocratic, and the problem

1:23:01

on the left is the personality type is

1:23:03

bureaucratic. Yeah, I heard that. It's either

1:23:05

groups of people making rules or one strong

1:23:07

man. My philosophy on it... the

1:23:09

extreme left and extreme right? The extreme left always

1:23:11

takes things too far. They can never take

1:23:13

a guess for an answer. And the extreme right

1:23:16

just makes shit up. They

1:23:18

just make shit up. You have

1:23:20

health written down here. Yeah, because

1:23:22

I don't take it as seriously

1:23:24

as I should. Have

1:23:26

you had any scares? Not

1:23:28

scares necessarily, but

1:23:30

concerns. You don't experience

1:23:33

fear. But

1:23:35

I'm on more medication now than I thought I

1:23:37

would be on. And it kind of happens instantly. You're

1:23:40

on a statin, probably. All that stuff. And

1:23:42

it happens like this. People say, are you

1:23:44

on a medication? And you're like, no, I'm

1:23:46

not on anything. And then

1:23:48

a year later, you go, you know,

1:23:51

I'm going to try a new doctor

1:23:53

and go with this. And you're on

1:23:55

five medications all of a sudden. It's

1:23:57

like, what the fuck just happened? You're

1:23:59

starting to buy those little pill boxes

1:24:01

and everything. It's crazy now. And they're

1:24:03

not wrong. Which is the other thing,

1:24:05

you know. Yeah, it's good, but you

1:24:07

wish there was a better way. Exactly.

1:24:09

And unfortunately, it's diet and exercise, and

1:24:11

you ain't doing that. I do, but

1:24:13

then there are blocks to that. Like,

1:24:15

I'll do it for a time, and

1:24:17

then stop, and then I'll do it

1:24:20

for a time. Like,

1:24:22

I need accountability there a lot, you

1:24:24

know, in the way that I

1:24:26

need a deadline for writing. Well, yeah,

1:24:28

is it possible to have accountability?

1:24:30

I don't know. See, we're too smart

1:24:32

as humans. We're able to figure

1:24:34

out that that's what the deal is.

1:24:37

So then we combat that. So

1:24:39

you really have to use other tools

1:24:41

in order to stick to things

1:24:43

sometimes. I created this

1:24:45

whole philosophy years ago. I call it

1:24:47

creation. And it was trying to give a

1:24:49

way to just help clear us up

1:24:51

and free us up to do certain things

1:24:53

and to have different relationships. you know

1:24:56

with things and i've used it sometimes and

1:24:58

it is really helpful and i'm passing

1:25:00

on to people and that kind of stuff

1:25:02

but you need to have a a

1:25:04

way in which to have a proper relationship

1:25:06

with something unless you're lucky enough to

1:25:08

have the type of relationship where you it's

1:25:10

almost like autistic where that's the rule

1:25:12

i'm sticking to the rule you know and

1:25:15

some people can do that and it's

1:25:17

not a problem you know but um the

1:25:19

real thing is being able to stick

1:25:21

to something when it's the last thing you

1:25:23

want to do that's the challenge yeah And

1:25:26

so what you have to learn to do

1:25:28

is take desire out of the equation and

1:25:30

realize that actually what you want has nothing

1:25:32

to do with it. I'm pretty good with

1:25:34

it, and I think it's Catholic. I'm pretty

1:25:36

good with, like, what are the rules? Okay.

1:25:38

And I only eat sugar one day a

1:25:41

week. Yeah. And I go back and forth

1:25:43

on that. I haven't had sugar for a

1:25:45

while and I feel so much better. But

1:25:47

then I'll go through months where it's like,

1:25:49

all right, I'll just have this. I need

1:25:51

a bowl of Cheerios right now. That's

1:25:54

okay. I know. I'm

1:25:56

guilt -ridden enough to just be like,

1:25:58

stop. You have to stop. But

1:26:00

it is... a unique like i

1:26:02

quit smoking cold turkey like i

1:26:04

can just do i'm vegan i'm

1:26:06

vegan vegetarian but mostly my girlfriend

1:26:08

knows that you're vegan yeah so

1:26:10

yeah she thought that was good

1:26:12

she's vegetarian though yeah there you

1:26:15

go yeah um she's weak um

1:26:17

no she's indian actually um she's

1:26:19

been that she's been that way

1:26:21

her whole life yeah they started

1:26:23

it yeah um so okay well

1:26:25

i guess my question is how

1:26:29

My final question maybe is

1:26:31

how has your life been? do

1:26:35

you gauge it and did it go

1:26:37

well and are you pleased with it? Are

1:26:39

you happy? Or is happiness

1:26:41

even a thing to you? If you

1:26:43

know me and know the type of

1:26:45

person that I am, I'm naturally a

1:26:47

very happy person and my happiness comes

1:26:49

from gratitude. you know so i operate

1:26:51

out of gratitude more than anything else

1:26:53

i lost my brother a few years

1:26:55

ago brother mark and a very funny

1:26:57

comic so funny yeah you know i

1:26:59

miss him dearly think about him i

1:27:01

only imagine yeah but the biggest tool

1:27:04

to help me get through that was

1:27:06

gratitude gratitude for being here gratitude for

1:27:08

all these things gratitude is the one

1:27:10

saving grace that can help you in

1:27:12

your life because i learned I saw

1:27:14

books door to door once when I

1:27:16

was in college and really kind of

1:27:18

changed me in a different way. It

1:27:20

was an earlier change in my life.

1:27:22

That set me on the course to

1:27:24

be able to be a stand -up, you

1:27:26

know, to choose a career for something.

1:27:29

And I remember I spent a week where we

1:27:31

were all, it was kids from all over the

1:27:33

country met in Tennessee for a week and you

1:27:35

did this kind of training and then they'd send

1:27:37

you to another part of the country and I

1:27:39

ended up going to Rhode Island. But

1:27:41

that week in Tennessee was a huge week

1:27:43

in my life. It changed my life

1:27:45

at that time. I'll never forget it. In

1:27:49

fact, sometimes I'll say

1:27:51

hi to my project manager

1:27:53

from that time. I'll

1:27:55

see him and say, hey,

1:27:57

Larry. Tom McAuliffe, if you're

1:27:59

listening, Tom. But

1:28:01

there were sayings there that were those

1:28:03

Zig Ziglar sayings and all that kind

1:28:05

of stuff, which some of those are

1:28:07

kind of trite, but some are very

1:28:09

powerful. I thought about what you said,

1:28:11

which is like, don't be sad that

1:28:13

it... it's over be glad that it

1:28:16

happened or whatever and it's so fucking

1:28:18

corny yeah and yet that's your that's

1:28:20

helped you with your brother dying yeah

1:28:22

there's reasons why some of those you

1:28:24

know exist you know and There

1:28:26

are a couple that stuck with me. One was

1:28:28

whether you think you can or whether you think you

1:28:30

can't, you're absolutely right. The other

1:28:32

one was more people spend more

1:28:34

time planning a trip vacation than they

1:28:36

do planning their lives, that type

1:28:38

of thing. And it just helped me

1:28:40

to put into perspective gratitude at

1:28:42

that time and that type of thing.

1:28:45

And I've always tried to live

1:28:47

out of that. So I

1:28:49

don't need help to

1:28:51

be happy. I'm very

1:28:53

lucky in that sense. I

1:28:56

have to fend off things that are going

1:28:58

to affect the happiness. As

1:29:00

opposed to some people, it's the opposite. They're

1:29:03

in a world trying to find happiness. That's

1:29:07

real sad to me. That

1:29:09

makes you sad. When

1:29:13

you say you come from gratitude, what

1:29:15

does it feel like or what does it

1:29:17

sound like within you? Do

1:29:19

you know I mean? What

1:29:23

do you remind yourself of? I literally

1:29:25

have a, I talk about it all

1:29:27

the time, I have a journal checklist

1:29:29

where I write down, basically like coach

1:29:32

myself a few times a day. And

1:29:34

one of the big things is like,

1:29:36

I am lucky beyond measure. Okay,

1:29:39

so part of my philosophy

1:29:41

is that you have to take

1:29:43

emotions out of the equation

1:29:45

and turn things into actions. Actions

1:29:48

are more important than emotions, okay?

1:29:53

When you're not sure, people who are not

1:29:55

sure what they want, look to what you're

1:29:57

doing. What you're doing is

1:29:59

what you want, actually. That's

1:30:02

actually what you want. It's your actions. Good

1:30:04

luck trying to want something else than what

1:30:06

you're actually doing. It will always tell you

1:30:08

if you're confused about what you want. Look

1:30:11

at what you're doing, that will tell you.

1:30:14

It's also a great way to gauge other

1:30:16

people's... what they say and what they're

1:30:18

doing. Abuse is a big thing of that.

1:30:20

I love you, baby, but I'm going

1:30:22

to hit you. I don't care what you

1:30:25

say. Right. So if you operate out

1:30:27

of that, actions can help

1:30:29

you first. So practice gratitude in

1:30:31

actions as opposed to trying to

1:30:33

have a feeling of gratitude. So

1:30:35

tell people thank you for something.

1:30:37

Make sure you show people that

1:30:39

you're grateful for something that they've

1:30:41

done. Do surprise

1:30:43

gratitude, that type of thing. So

1:30:45

communicate with people about it. So

1:30:48

do the action of gratitude first.

1:30:50

And does that mean, so you

1:30:52

would say, it's telling somebody you're

1:30:54

grateful. That's, I wouldn't consider that

1:30:56

an action, but it's. It is.

1:30:58

Okay. It actually is. I guess

1:31:00

it's, I would, because it's words,

1:31:02

I'm like, well, it still feels like words,

1:31:04

but I guess. But you're giving this to

1:31:06

somebody else. So you're giving them a gift

1:31:09

by saying that. you know when you're thanking

1:31:11

somebody that's giving them a gift yeah that's

1:31:13

what that is you know and because humans

1:31:15

those words have meaning for us and

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so it affects us on an emotional

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level right so but it's the action

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of doing it gratitude can operate in

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many different ways but you can't just

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say i'm grateful you know that's you

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can do that a certain point and

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you can have an understanding of that

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but it helps to to act act

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on gratitude first you know how what

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does What does gratitude look like? How

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can I express it? And that type

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of thing. And then you can always

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remind yourself of it by platitudes and