0:00

Outro

0:04

Music

0:10

Welcome to another episode of Breaking

0:12

into Cybersecurity. Today we

0:14

have Warner Moore with us who'll

0:17

be sharing his background into

0:19

cybersecurity, as well as sharing tips

0:21

and tricks of his specialty along

0:23

the way. Warner, give us

0:25

a little bit of background about yourself.

0:27

My pleasure to be here today, Chris,

0:29

and thanks for having me. I normally

0:32

say my background is tech and cybersecurity

0:35

which is quite true. I started my

0:38

career in the early days of

0:40

the internet focusing on the

0:42

bleeding edge of technology, which.

0:44

Really drove me towards, as

0:47

technology changed towards internet

0:50

technologies. Back in the olden

0:52

days, we called them.com companies

0:55

and over that time I helped build

0:57

several business to business softwares

1:00

as service companies across industries,

1:02

including FinTech, InsureTech,

1:05

and health Tech. I've often served

1:07

in security leadership roles and

1:09

technology leadership roles, but

1:12

security has really been a focus in my

1:14

career. And I quit counting

1:16

at a certain point, but in my time I built

1:19

over seven security and or privacy

1:21

programs.

1:22

And what is it about cybersecurity

1:25

and or privacy that got you

1:27

hooked?

1:27

In the early days of the internet

1:29

it was really just a leading area

1:32

of technology. A nerdy thing

1:34

we like to do. Technology wasn't

1:37

as secure. As it is today, which

1:40

is weird to say out loud given the

1:42

common narrative and media where

1:45

we're having breaches all the time. But

1:48

back then, pretty much everything

1:50

we ran was fundamentally insecure.

1:53

So running secure systems was

1:55

difficult and for me it

1:57

was a bit of a game. I. I had

2:00

a server where people would log in directly

2:02

into it. That's how we did things

2:04

back then, and it was really hardened

2:07

and I challenged people to compromise

2:10

it and not maliciously, but

2:12

to test the security and they

2:14

were never able to. And a

2:16

lot of the technologies we have today

2:18

came of that time free and open

2:20

source technologies, intrusion detection

2:23

systems like Snort file Integrity

2:25

monitors or fem. I've

2:27

been known to call them host-based IDS at

2:29

times, and they were at the time, but

2:32

not so much anymore. Tripwire and

2:34

just Nessus or early vulnerability

2:37

scanning. I could go on. So many security

2:40

technologies came out of

2:42

open source in early days of the internet.

2:44

So it was a natural focus area for

2:47

me. And privacy? I think we all

2:49

have a right or should have

2:51

a right to privacy to

2:53

control our data, to not

2:56

share things without our consent

2:58

or knowledge. And it,

3:00

it's more values and

3:02

the intersection of security where

3:04

it can help enable privacy has

3:07

always been attractive to me.

3:09

So as you think about the next generation,

3:12

how do we develop and create

3:14

the next generation of engineers

3:17

that will think security

3:19

and privacy?

3:20

I think this is an important area to

3:22

focus in our profession.

3:24

I, there's a lot of data out

3:27

there and. Some of the sources might

3:29

be questionable, but I do think anecdotally

3:32

we can all admit that there are

3:35

not enough skilled folks

3:38

to satisfy all

3:40

the things we need to do professionally with

3:43

cybersecurity. And universities

3:45

have been stepping up and creating cybersecurity

3:48

programs over the past 10 years and

3:51

professionally, we've created so

3:53

many great resources. But ultimately

3:56

it's not like back in

3:58

the day where you had to earn

4:00

your stripes in tech and you might luck

4:02

into a specialized field. We

4:04

have to make an active point

4:07

to develop young and new talent and

4:09

Find ways to curate

4:11

and craft in the next generation

4:14

of professionals. If we

4:16

as security leaders don't take an

4:18

active part of this and supporting

4:20

and enabling our companies to develop

4:23

new talent, we're not going to solve the

4:25

talent shortage for at least

4:27

a decade or two to come.

4:29

And as a security leader, how

4:31

do you assess the talent that. You

4:33

have on your own team before

4:36

deciding to go out and get another

4:38

headcount or get another solution.

4:40

I think of it less from

4:43

the perspective of skill assessment.

4:45

Have a great team and I'm grateful

4:48

to have them. Ultimately big

4:50

part of what I do is being able to

4:53

hang out with smart folks who make

4:55

an impact. It's more about Do

4:57

we have enough folks on the team to

5:00

deliver what we need to do in the

5:02

business? And that's how

5:04

I approach not only running a

5:07

security organization, but building a security

5:09

program more strategically. Are

5:11

we understanding the

5:14

way the business operates? Are we understanding

5:17

The goals are we understanding

5:19

the economics and the financial implications

5:22

of the business? And how

5:24

does our work and security tie to

5:27

that? So frequently when

5:29

I'm assessing adding to the team, it's

5:32

more around do we have capacity

5:34

to deliver on what we need to do

5:36

and the commitments we've made.

5:38

And as you think about, Out technical

5:40

skills versus soft skills how

5:43

would you weigh em in importance?

5:45

I've been building technology

5:47

and security teams for well

5:49

over a decade and early

5:51

when I was hiring I weighed,

5:54

I. Technical skills, very highly coming

5:57

from a technical background, that's

5:59

easy to do, right? Valuing things

6:01

that we're good at and passionate

6:03

about, and what I quickly

6:06

learned is that while

6:08

those who are the best of

6:10

the best, and when it comes to a particular

6:12

technical skill, I think in

6:15

technical fields, we are less

6:18

refined when it comes to social or

6:20

soft skills or business skills, and

6:22

that, that's something I'd encourage everyone

6:25

to develop regardless of their

6:27

career goals. It, it's going

6:29

to enable someone who wants

6:32

to remain in a technical role

6:34

to be more successful, make more

6:36

of an impact, and have less

6:39

friction in the things they're trying to

6:41

do every day. And once someone,

6:44

and if someone chooses to follow

6:47

a management path, it's non-negotiable.

6:50

And frequently soft

6:52

skills are more, or lack

6:54

thereof, are more limiting

6:57

in one's career journey. Then

6:59

a lot of other skills at a certain point.

7:01

Later and for a long time, while

7:04

technical skills are important

7:07

and necessary. Those who

7:09

have better communication skills,

7:12

better listening skills the

7:14

ability to collaborate cross-functionally

7:17

with team members are those

7:19

who ultimately get hired and

7:21

get promoted and have more opportunities. I'll

7:24

never forget a couple times where.

7:26

I had the opportunity to hire

7:29

some of the best engineers in our city,

7:31

if not the country and the world. And

7:33

there are An ability to work

7:36

in a team collaboratively and

7:38

in a way that didn't alienate

7:41

people in the process, limited my

7:43

ability to hire them. And

7:46

quite unfortunate. I knew it was the right

7:48

decision at the time, but it was still a

7:51

very difficult decision to make.

7:53

And I live by that to this

7:56

day.

7:56

You hit on some of the skills that I ask

7:58

about all the time. Communication. Collaboration,

8:01

and then another one, delegation. How

8:03

would you rate your ability

8:06

of those three skills? I.

8:08

Communication, collaboration, and

8:11

delegation. There are stu studies

8:13

that show self ratings when

8:15

it comes to judging or

8:18

assessing one's abilities generally

8:20

are not very accurate. I'll

8:23

just take that question off the cuff and

8:25

say that. Delegation is always something

8:27

that I'm working on. It's quite

8:30

nuanced and different team members

8:32

and different skill with different skills

8:35

and experience levels of different

8:38

levels of abilities When it comes to

8:40

stepping up when things are delegated

8:42

to them I think it's very difficult

8:44

to balance between Just here take

8:46

this and walking away and never

8:48

looking at it again versus handing

8:51

it over and providing

8:53

the right level of support to

8:55

ensure the team member is

8:58

successful and the outcome is successful.

9:00

Admittedly soft skills are and leadership

9:03

skills I look at as a

9:05

lifelong journey. There isn't

9:08

one day where suddenly someone's

9:10

a leader or suddenly someone's

9:12

a fantastic communicator. I've

9:14

been actively working on communication

9:17

skills for well over a

9:19

decade, and it's something I

9:22

practice and work on. Regularly to

9:24

this day, and I think that's true of

9:27

most topics like this.

9:28

Now, as you think about networking,

9:31

how important is networking with people

9:34

to this career and to leadership

9:36

in general?

9:37

Relationships are everything.

9:39

A bit of a controversial statement

9:42

is businesses are people without.

9:44

being into the corporations or people,

9:47

legal or political arguments.

9:50

I think that's a good way to

9:52

look at anything we do. If

9:55

you're a individual contributor

9:58

do you have relationships in your profession

10:00

to learn, develop skills,

10:02

refine skills, ask for help in special

10:05

areas, find a new job when

10:07

you need it. Know when. New job opportunities

10:10

are out there. What does the market look

10:12

like in a management role?

10:15

Being able to hire the right

10:17

team members knowing who

10:19

can help in what areas of the organization

10:22

to help you and your team be successful

10:24

in the role. On an executive level

10:27

creating awareness in the,

10:29

your functional area professionally in

10:31

your city, in your country, in your

10:33

profession as a whole being able

10:36

to draw in the right areas to build your

10:38

team. And I could Wax

10:40

poetical, on and on about all sorts

10:42

of different examples, but building

10:45

relationships is everything

10:47

we do as humans. I've often

10:50

met with even senior

10:52

level managers who had

10:55

been in a role for. A decade

10:57

plus, and I never see them

10:59

at our professional community groups

11:02

or our executive meetings

11:05

in the community. And then

11:08

suddenly I get an introduction out

11:10

of the blue where they want help because

11:12

they need a new job or they

11:15

want help because they wanna hire a

11:17

special team member and at that

11:19

point I'm just meeting the person for

11:21

the first time and they're introducing

11:23

themself to the community. It's best

11:25

to have relationships give

11:28

and then when I. You

11:30

need things folks will be there to help

11:32

too. Doing it proactively

11:35

is super important. A book by

11:37

Adam Grant one of my favorite books of

11:39

last year that I read is called Give

11:41

and Take, and it talks all

11:43

about the science and the benefits

11:46

or. Lack of benefits for those who

11:48

don't give really a fantastic

11:50

book. He is a professor out of Wharton

11:53

Science-based focused on organizational

11:55

psychology.

11:56

And it sounds very similar to

11:59

using influence as well. As

12:01

part of that skillset how

12:03

would you describe influence and its

12:05

importance to your career?

12:06

There's a one of my all

12:08

time favorite books is called Influence.

12:11

It's a bit of a classic at

12:13

this point. The, but that's a completely

12:17

unrelated I it's interesting. I normally

12:19

don't think about influence as

12:22

a thing. I usually think about how

12:24

I can help folks how I can give back

12:26

how I can make an impact be it team

12:28

members the organizations I work

12:30

with my professional community, nonprofit

12:34

community. It giving I

12:36

is one of the best ways to build influence.

12:39

I, it's I how would you react?

12:42

I if someone you, you don't know asks

12:44

for something out of the blue, but

12:47

I if someone you've known for

12:50

a while who's helped you over

12:52

time in different ways and.

12:55

You've built rapport in a relationship

12:57

and they ask for help on what's

13:00

your response going to be, then you

13:02

can treat it rhetorically. But I, I think

13:04

that's a good way to look at influence.

13:06

That definitely is now. Any

13:09

final words of advice for

13:12

the next generation of leaders that

13:15

you hope to come behind this?

13:17

I often talk to experienced

13:19

engineers and technical people, and

13:22

they might be thinking of a management

13:24

transition, and I. Maybe

13:27

as a career progression, maybe

13:29

as a opportunity that an

13:31

organization is pushing to someone

13:34

towards, there's a certain age

13:36

in a career where it's almost more

13:38

difficult not to fall into

13:41

that kind of work, and we don't

13:44

often talk about how it's

13:46

a completely different job. It, going

13:49

into a management role for the first

13:51

time is a complete career

13:53

change, and we don't talk about

13:56

it that way. We talk about it

13:58

as a profession as a continuation

14:01

of the profession we're in. That's

14:03

absolutely not the case. And the soft skills

14:05

we talked about administrative skills,

14:08

management skills, leadership skills

14:10

our ability to organize and.

14:13

Build teams and help people be

14:15

successful. It's not about our ability

14:18

to get things done personally.

14:21

In fact, a default reaction for

14:23

somebody in that position if the team's not performing

14:26

might be to do the work yourself,

14:28

which is the exact wrong thing

14:31

to do. So those management

14:33

is a career change. And it's not

14:36

an a technical role, and it's

14:39

important to weigh that very heavily.

14:41

And if someone wants to make that journey,

14:44

and it will be a journey, look at it

14:46

that way and be prepared to

14:48

start. New and it's going

14:50

to be a learning journey, and there

14:53

will be a lot of folks who

14:55

hopefully can help along the way. I

14:57

wish everyone the best of luck, It's

15:00

not an easy path, but a lot

15:02

of folks can be very effective at

15:04

it.

15:04

Thank you. I think we definitely need

15:06

a diverse Group of individuals

15:09

that help lead as well

15:11

as help engineer 'cause we need that

15:13

diverse perspective to challenge

15:16

and tackle the problems of tomorrow.

15:18

I couldn't agree more. Often the best

15:20

engineers should stay. The best engineers. That's.

15:23

Much more coveted skillset, and

15:25

there are a lot of managers out there, and

15:28

many of them are earlier in

15:30

their learning journey. So

15:32

if you're really good at something and you

15:34

like it, do you want to make that

15:36

change? It's not only a question

15:39

to ask, it's a decision to make

15:41

before taking the leap.

15:43

It is. Thanks everyone for joining

15:45

us and have a great rest of your day.

15:47

Such a pleasure. Take care everyone. Feel

15:50

free to reach out on LinkedIn and mention

15:52

this podcast. Always happy to

15:54

chat. I.