0:00

Disclamor. This podcast

0:02

contains elements that may be

0:04

alarming to some listeners. The

0:06

case discussed in this episode

0:09

is real and represents the

0:11

worst day in many people's lives.

0:13

While I strive for accuracy,

0:15

some details may vary depending on

0:18

the sources used. Due to the

0:20

nature of the content, listener discretion

0:22

is advised. You went

0:24

now listening to Mrs.

0:26

Bres. Hello

0:40

everyone and welcome to British

0:42

Murders with Stuart Blues, a

0:44

podcast focusing exclusively on listener

0:46

suggested British murder cases. This

0:48

is the ninth episode of

0:50

season 16, but before we

0:52

get to the story, let's

0:54

break the ice. The show's

0:57

first opening ice breaker segment

0:59

is this. True facts that sound

1:01

like bullshit. Did you know that

1:03

you're two times more likely to get

1:05

killed by a vending machine than you

1:07

are by a shark? I think Mr.

1:10

Spielberg may have missed a trick

1:12

there. Now it's time for the

1:14

show's final opening icebreaker segment.

1:17

Mandelquot of the day. Why do

1:19

they call it rush hour when nothing

1:21

moves? Robin Williams. This case

1:23

was requested by listeners Kathy

1:25

Lloyd and Kirsty Taylor, as

1:27

well as YouTube commentator Mr.

1:29

Mighty Clash. We're in the town

1:32

of Farnborough this week located

1:34

in the South East England

1:36

County of Hampshire. It's two and

1:38

a half miles north of Aldershot,

1:40

15 miles southeast of Redding, and

1:42

31 miles southwest of the centre

1:44

of London. Here are five quickfire

1:47

facts about Farnborough. Number

1:49

one, Farnborough is renowned for

1:51

its significant contributions to

1:54

aviation. In 1908, it was

1:56

the site of Britain's first

1:58

powered flight by Samuel Kodak.

2:01

The town has since been

2:03

a hub for aeronautical innovation,

2:05

including the development of the

2:08

first airborne cameras and head-up

2:10

cockpit displays. Number two, held

2:12

by Ennula since 1948, the

2:15

Farnborough International Air Show is

2:17

one of the world's largest

2:19

aerospace events, attracting exhibitors and

2:22

visitors globally. Number three, Farnborough's

2:24

St Michael's Abbey is the

2:26

final resting place of Napoleon

2:29

III, his wife Empress Eugenie,

2:31

and their son. Empress Eugenie

2:33

chose Farnborough as her residence

2:36

after Napoleon III's death, leading

2:38

to the establishment of the

2:40

Abbey. Number four, Farnborough lies

2:43

on London Clay, overlaid by

2:45

sandy and gravelly bagshop beds

2:47

from the Eocene Epoch. I'm

2:50

definitely saying that wrong. The

2:52

town's soils are generally free

2:54

draining and infertile, which historically

2:57

limited agricultural potential. And number

2:59

five, Farnborough has been home

3:01

to several prominent figures, including

3:04

TV presenter Anne Robinson, cricketer

3:06

Sean Udall, and actress Janet

3:08

Wright. According to a June

3:11

2019 estimate, the population of

3:13

Farnborough is 57, 486. I

3:16

think it's fair to say that

3:18

the majority of well publicized murder

3:20

cases become infamous not because of

3:23

the victim, but rather because of

3:25

the perpetrator. As a society, we

3:27

so often remember their names first

3:29

as opposed to the victims and

3:32

the 1992 murder of 18-year-old Katie

3:34

Radcliffe is sadly no different. Nearly

3:36

every documentary article and podcast covering

3:39

this story fixates on one detail.

3:41

the age of Katie's killer. Sharon

3:43

Carr was just 12 years old

3:45

when she took Katie's life, making

3:48

her Britain's youngest ever female murderer,

3:50

and that fact alone has kept

3:52

this case in the spotlight for

3:54

decades. But what's off? Often lost

3:57

in the shuffle when it comes

3:59

to the telling of this story

4:01

is the one of Katie herself.

4:04

After all, she was the innocent,

4:06

bright and kind-hearted teenager who had

4:08

a life needlessly cut short. If

4:10

you're a long-time listener of British

4:13

murders, you know I strive to

4:15

ensure the focus of my episode

4:17

remains on the victims at all

4:19

times. Unfortunately, with this case, the

4:22

coverage rarely does that. Instead, the

4:24

narrative has been built around car.

4:26

Her troubled childhood, a disturbing behaviour,

4:29

and the fascination with how someone

4:31

so young could commit such a

4:33

horrible act. To find out more

4:35

about Katie, I had to go

4:38

back way deep into the old

4:40

newspaper archives, where glimpses of her

4:42

promising life remain. I will be

4:44

discussing Carr's background in great detail

4:47

as well, so be prepared, it

4:49

won't be an easy listen. And

4:51

as we go through the case,

4:54

I want you to consider the

4:56

age-old debate of nature versus nurture.

4:58

In no way can cars upbringing

5:00

justify what she did to Katie

5:03

as well as others, but it's

5:05

important to try and understand how

5:07

a child can become capable of

5:09

such evil at such a young

5:12

age. Whether you believe people are

5:14

born evil or shaped by their

5:16

environment, let's not lose sight of

5:19

what truly matters. Katie Radcliffe. I

5:22

was unable to find her precise

5:24

date of birth, but logically Kate

5:26

was born in May 1974. I

5:28

say that because she'd not long

5:31

celebrated her 18th birthday a couple

5:33

of weeks before her life was

5:35

so cruelly taken in early June

5:37

1992. Many initial newspaper reports from

5:40

around that time mistakenly listed Kate's

5:42

age as 19. a small but

5:44

significant error that serves as a

5:47

perfect example of why I have

5:49

to be so cautious when researching

5:51

cases. Even reputable sources can get

5:53

things wrong and it's crucial to

5:56

separate fact from assumption. As I

5:58

say in my disclaimer I'm... hammering

6:00

at home while I strive for

6:02

accuracy some details may vary depending

6:05

on sources used. Katie grew up

6:07

in the village of Hawley in

6:09

Hampshire living with her parents in

6:11

a mock tutor detached house set

6:13

within large grounds on a private

6:15

road. Her dad Joseph or Joe as

6:17

it was known was a freight company

6:20

boss who retired shortly after our main

6:22

timeline while her mom Helen took care

6:24

of the family home. Katie also

6:26

had an older sister, Joanne, who was

6:28

20 at the time of this story,

6:31

and worked as a building society clerk.

6:33

The two sisters were said to

6:35

have had a particularly close

6:37

relationship. Katie was a home-loving

6:39

and sensible young woman. She

6:41

was well-liked, loved to have fun,

6:44

had no apparent enemies, and was

6:46

the sort of person who'd never

6:48

put herself in arm's way. Being

6:50

cautious of strangers, not accepting

6:52

lifts from him, etc. It

6:54

just wasn't in her nature. It's

6:56

worth remembering that as it's

6:58

somewhat that becomes important later

7:00

in the story. She attended Hawley

7:03

Place School, a private institution,

7:05

where teachers remembered her as

7:07

a bright, kind and likable

7:09

girl. After leaving school at 16,

7:11

with what one paper described as

7:13

modest qualifications, Katie pursued a career

7:16

in a field she had a

7:18

passion for, hairdressing. Securing

7:20

a job at Bumbles 2 in

7:22

Frimley High Street, she quickly became

7:24

known for her friendly nature and

7:27

willingness to help with anything. Always

7:29

making customers feel welcome and

7:31

lifting the staff's moods by

7:33

simply entering the salon. She

7:35

absolutely loved that job and she were bloody

7:37

good at it as well. Who knows what

7:39

that happy-go-lucky teenager with a zest for

7:41

life could have gone on to achieve

7:43

had her life not been cruelly ended

7:46

at the hands of another. Outside

7:48

of work, Katie loved dancing and spending

7:50

time with her friends, but in the

7:53

weeks leading up to a murder, she'd

7:55

been dealing with some personal struggles. She'd

7:57

recently split up with her boyfriend...

8:00

after a long-term relationship, a decision

8:02

made by him, and following a

8:04

disagreement with her parents, she'd moved

8:06

out of their house. During our

8:08

main timeline, Katie was staying with

8:10

her good friend Michelle at a

8:12

property near Camberle in Surrey. The

8:14

two had even, at one point,

8:17

had aspirations of starting their lives

8:19

anew by moving almost 5,000 miles

8:21

away to Los Angeles in California.

8:23

But after the beating up of

8:25

Rodney King by LAPD officers in

8:27

March 991 led to the LA

8:29

riots in late April and early

8:32

May 992, the two friends decided

8:34

not to go through with a

8:36

move. Despite everything that was going

8:38

on in her personal life, K.A.

8:40

did her best to put on

8:42

a brave face. Remaining her usual

8:44

smiley self, she frequently hit the

8:46

town with her friends each weekend,

8:49

just like anyone else would who'd

8:51

recently turned 18. Raga muffins, or

8:53

Rags as it was known to

8:55

the regulars, was a nightclub in

8:57

Camberle, which Katie and her friends

8:59

frequently attended. Heading to Rags was

9:01

the plan for Katie and Michelle

9:04

on Saturday, June 6, 992, but

9:06

neither of the two women knew

9:08

that within the space of a

9:10

few hours of entering the club,

9:12

Katie would be dead. That night,

9:14

the club were packed, with over

9:16

500 people in attendance. While the

9:18

exact details of what happened remain

9:21

unclear, Here's the most accurate timeline

9:23

I've been able to put together.

9:25

Katie and Michelle arrived shortly before

9:27

9 p.m. having arranged to meet

9:29

some other friends there. By all

9:31

accounts, Katie was in good spirits.

9:33

She was seeing happily dancing, but

9:36

that all changed when at some

9:38

point during the evening she bumped

9:40

into her ex-boyfriend. She was reportedly

9:42

eager to rekindle their relationship. And

9:44

let's face it, we've all been

9:46

there, right? I think that's a

9:48

situation we can all relate to

9:50

in some capacity in some capacity.

9:53

As the night progressed and the

9:55

late evening became early morning, K

9:57

became separated from the very friends

9:59

who planned to give her a

10:01

lift home. In an incredibly unfortunate

10:03

yet understandable set of circumstances, those

10:05

friends assumed that Katie had left

10:08

with someone else. At around 2am,

10:10

when the club DJ began playing slower

10:12

songs as the venue approached its closing

10:15

time, Katie appears to have left the

10:17

club alone, possibly in search of her

10:19

ex. Michelle waited for Katie for

10:21

a long time, but eventually assumed

10:23

she'd gone on with someone else,

10:25

a friend as opposed to a

10:27

stranger. I touched upon this earlier, in

10:30

that Michelle was certain Kate would

10:32

never have willingly accepted a lift

10:34

from a stranger, that is, unless

10:36

she were forced. Katie was last

10:38

seen between 2 and 3am

10:40

in Campbell's shopping precinct, with

10:42

most reports placing her there

10:44

around 2.30am. She was spotted

10:47

in an empty car park,

10:49

reportedly asking where her ex-boyfriend

10:51

was. Katie never made it home that

10:53

night, neither to Michelle's place nor

10:55

a parent's house. But a family

10:58

weren't immediately concerned. They were

11:00

under the impression she'd be staying

11:02

at Michelle's, and as far as

11:04

they knew, that's where she was. She

11:06

was living with her friend at that

11:08

time, after all. By the time the

11:10

parents realised some of it were wrong,

11:12

it was already too late. Several

11:15

hours later, four 14-year-old schoolboys were

11:17

walking back to their tent after

11:19

a camping trip in a friend's

11:21

back garden on Highview Road. It

11:23

was just after 7.40 a.m.

11:26

when they stumbled upon something

11:28

utterly traumatizing. The half-naked body

11:30

of a woman, shoved between a

11:33

wall and a parked car on

11:35

a path opposite Victoria Road cemetery.

11:37

Nobody knew it at the time, but

11:39

it was Kater. The boys would later

11:42

recall having heard a scream during

11:44

the night, possibly around 3.15 a.

11:46

But they dismissed it, assuming it

11:48

was just other kids messing about

11:51

as they were. Katie's body was

11:53

in a state of complete disarray.

11:55

Her jacket was missing, her clothing

11:58

was disturbed, and she'd been... had

12:00

multiple times and it appeared she'd

12:02

been sexually assaulted. Yet, bizarrely, police

12:04

initially suspect to gunshot wounds as

12:07

the cause of death, which couldn't

12:09

have been further from the truth.

12:11

Katie's parents officially reported their youngest

12:13

daughter missing on the Sunday afternoon,

12:16

but before the police could even

12:18

begin their search, they arrived at

12:20

the worried couple's door would devastate

12:23

in news. When officers mentioned that

12:25

the victim found that same morning

12:27

had been wearing a necklace with

12:29

the number 18 on it, Joseph

12:32

instantly knew that it was Kater.

12:34

His worst fear was confirmed when

12:36

he subsequently identified her body. In

12:39

the hours that followed, police worked

12:41

to piece together the timeline after

12:43

securing the crime scene. They weren't

12:45

sure if Kater had been killed

12:48

where she were found or if

12:50

her body had been moved and

12:52

dumped there. A green opal record

12:55

stolen from a road just 150

12:57

yards away also raised suspicion according

12:59

to several newspaper articles with Detective

13:01

Superintendent Ray Piper who led the

13:04

investigation saying we believe that the

13:06

theft of the car may be

13:08

connected with the murder. Katie's injuries

13:10

indicated she'd been killed with a

13:13

twin bladed knife and detectives scoured

13:15

the cemetery inch by inch for

13:17

clues but they had no look

13:20

finding the murder weapon. Early on,

13:22

they sought three men seen near

13:24

Katie that night. An Asian man,

13:26

known as the Korean kickboxer, an

13:29

Afro-Caribean man, and a white man,

13:31

aged between 20 and 25. The

13:33

first two came forward and were

13:36

eliminated from inquiries. The third remained

13:38

unidentified during my research. The reason

13:40

the police sought men was down

13:42

to the severity of Katie's injuries.

13:45

Detectives were certain that only an

13:47

adult male could have inflicted such

13:49

horrific ones. How wrong they were.

13:52

Then came another lead. A blood-stained

13:54

man in a Ford XR3 seen

13:56

at two service stations in the

13:58

early... hours of June 7th. He

14:01

was described as being roughly

14:03

20 years old, slim with blonde hair

14:05

and wearing a grey sweatshirt. He may

14:07

have gone by the name Mick or

14:10

Nick depending on which source you read.

14:12

Katie's ex-boyfriend was also interviewed

14:14

but quickly ruled out as

14:16

a suspect. Meanwhile police became

14:18

increasingly convinced that Katie had been

14:21

murdered near Highview Road just around

14:23

the corner from where a body

14:25

was found and close to where

14:27

the four boys were camping. Highview

14:30

Road is in Farnborough, by the way,

14:32

I may not have mentioned that, about

14:34

three miles away from the nightclub. Now

14:37

Katie being killed near Highview Road

14:39

makes sense, assuming the scream the

14:41

boy's heard came from her when

14:43

she was attacked. A 10 grand

14:45

reward was put up by two

14:47

local businessmen in July 1992, and

14:50

that September, Katie's case was featured

14:52

on crime watch, leading to over

14:54

350 calls, which ultimately went nowhere.

14:56

By April of 993, and

14:59

despite tracing and interviewing nearly

15:01

every person in attendance at

15:03

Rags that fateful night, 21

15:06

revelers still remained unaccounted for.

15:08

As police search for answers,

15:10

another horrific murder sent shockwaves

15:12

through Hampshire. On August 1st,

15:14

992, just two months after

15:16

Katie's murder, 15-year-old Helen Goree

15:19

was found half-naked and strangled

15:21

in the grounds of Mirkistan

15:23

Hall in Hon Dean. At first

15:25

detectives feared the murders were

15:28

linked but their attention soon

15:30

turned to a man named

15:32

John Corcoran who was later

15:34

convicted of Helen's murder and

15:36

sentenced to life in prison.

15:38

Katie's killer however was still

15:41

out there and her case would

15:43

remain cold until May 1996 when

15:45

police finally uncovered the shocking

15:47

truth. The story will continue

15:50

after these quick messages.

15:53

And now, back to the story.

15:55

On May 9th 1996, after

15:57

almost four years of one...

15:59

who was responsible, Katie Radcliffe's family

16:02

were informed that someone called Sharon

16:04

Carr had been charged with her

16:06

murder. At that time, Carr was

16:08

just 16 years old, which meant

16:11

that if the police had the

16:13

right person in custody, she was

16:15

just 12 when she killed Cater.

16:17

Carr was born in the Central

16:20

American country of Belize on December

16:22

21st, 1979. She grew up in

16:24

extreme poverty. and from day one

16:26

her home life and surrounding environment

16:29

was tumultuous to say the least.

16:31

She never knew her biological father

16:33

because he left her mom within

16:36

a year of her being born.

16:38

As a result Carr was raised

16:40

by her stepfather a Jamaican man

16:42

serving in the Royal Army Medical

16:45

Corps. His surname was Carr and

16:47

though his first name was either

16:49

Leslie or George once more depending

16:51

on which saw she read. That

16:54

detail remains uncertain and to be

16:56

honest it adds nothing to the

16:58

story. Carr's mom Maria was a

17:00

Belize-born factory worker and after her

17:03

first husband Carr's dad left she

17:05

met and married the aforementioned soldier

17:07

with whom she had two more

17:09

children. When he was posted to

17:12

Germany Maria and Carr moved with

17:14

him but the newly married couple's

17:16

relationship was anything but stable. Toxic

17:18

would be a more apt word.

17:21

The family eventually left for England

17:23

in the mid-1980s when Carr was

17:25

just five years old, settling in

17:27

Camberle. Carr is said to have

17:30

endured horrific abuse at the hands

17:32

of her mum. Not much is

17:34

mentioned of the relationship she had

17:37

with her stepfather, but based on

17:39

the fact he was also a

17:41

victim of Maria's violent tendencies, the

17:43

common denominator seems obvious. Their marriage

17:46

was breaking down. And in June

17:48

1986, when Carr's stepdad finally decided

17:50

to leave, Maria attacked him in

17:52

such a violent fashion that it

17:55

made me shudder when I read

17:57

it. As he entered their home,

17:59

Maria attacked. Maria poured a pan

18:01

of hot chip fat over him,

18:04

causing severe burns to his head,

18:06

arms and chest that required hospitalisation.

18:08

Carr, who was just six

18:10

at the time, reportedly witnessed

18:12

the entire incident and remained

18:15

eerily calm, an early warning sign

18:17

of things to come. Maria was convicted

18:19

of grievous bodily harm at

18:21

Guildford Crown Court on March

18:23

13th in 1987. But despite

18:25

the severity of the attack,

18:27

she was only handed a

18:29

suspended sentence and was ordered

18:31

to undergo three years of

18:34

psychiatric assessment. The couple

18:36

later divorced. Carr would later

18:38

claim that her mother also practiced

18:40

voodoo, or to be more precise

18:42

and given her beliefs heritage, Obiea.

18:45

What's more concerning is that Carr

18:47

also alleged that she was raped at

18:49

the age of nine, but no one

18:51

listened to her or took her claim

18:54

seriously. In a chilling remark to her

18:56

friend years later on the back

18:58

of that alleged incident, she said, I

19:00

decided to have a payback life. I

19:02

asked for help, but no one wanted

19:05

to listen. Despite the horrors of

19:07

her home life, Carr's early school

19:09

years painted a far different picture.

19:12

Her teachers described her as

19:14

a polite student. Friends said she

19:16

was sociable, though she always preferred

19:18

the company of older boys. She

19:21

was intelligent, had a flair

19:23

for writing poetry. and even excelled

19:25

as part of a school's basketball

19:27

team. An old headmaster of hers

19:29

once said that her smile could

19:32

light up the place. But regardless

19:34

of however big the flickering light

19:36

of potential was inside of car,

19:38

it was quickly extinguished as she

19:41

got older. By the time she was

19:43

11, her behaviour had taken a frighten

19:45

turn. She became aggressive and

19:47

unpredictable, earning a reputation

19:49

for her violent outbursts.

19:52

That same year, she started smoking weed.

19:54

And the head teacher at Codwalls Junior

19:56

School was soon left with no choice

19:58

but to raise the... alarm, contacting

20:00

the local education authority in December,

20:03

1991. Reports of cars escalating behaviour

20:05

continued into the spring of 1992,

20:07

prompting social services to intervene. By

20:10

then, her mum had reached her

20:12

limit. She placed Carr into voluntary

20:14

foster care with a woman in

20:17

Cambler in February, 1992, but the

20:19

arrangement didn't last. Despite the foster

20:21

care's best efforts, car was sent

20:23

back home after just a month.

20:26

At that point, Maria heard all

20:28

but abandoned her role as a

20:30

parent. Around the same time, another

20:33

man entered Carr's life, a labourer

20:35

who moved in with Maria while

20:37

Carr was still in foster care.

20:40

He had two daughters of his

20:42

own. Carr's descent only hastened after

20:44

that. She displayed a disturbing level

20:46

of cruelty towards animals, which many

20:49

of you listening won't be happy

20:51

to hear, with her ones decapitating

20:53

a dog with a spade. Several

20:56

pets in the neighborhood were mysteriously

20:58

killed around that period of time,

21:00

and if you do some research

21:03

online, you get the impression that

21:05

killing defenseless animals was something Carr

21:07

was taught by her mum, possibly

21:10

as part of some voodoo sacrifice

21:12

ritual. I will hold my hands

21:14

up, admittedly my knowledge of such

21:16

practices is minimal, so I apologize

21:19

if I'm wrong, but my research

21:21

suggests that I'm not. Carr

21:24

started hanging out with a

21:26

group of much older teenagers,

21:28

primarily boys, who collectively called

21:30

themselves the NASA crew. She

21:32

stayed out late, cruising around

21:34

Cambly with her new crew

21:36

in cars, intimidating neighbours, and

21:38

just generally harassing anyone they

21:40

came across. As I alluded

21:42

to at the start of

21:44

the episode, Carr's story is

21:46

a chilling exploration of the

21:48

nature versus nurture debate. Was

21:50

she born with a predisposition

21:52

towards violence? I wish she

21:54

shaped by the horrific circumstances

21:56

of her upbringing. Many people

21:58

experience abuse and neglect without

22:00

turning into killers. That's always

22:02

the argument against nurture being

22:04

a factor. But for Carr, something inside

22:06

her at some point in her early

22:09

timeline snapped. Her violent tendencies would

22:11

soon escalate beyond animals and

22:13

intimidation, leading to a crime

22:15

so shocking it still haunts

22:17

people today. Carr may have even gotten

22:20

away with murder if she hadn't

22:22

decided to celebrate its anniversary, as

22:24

so many killers do. On June

22:26

7th, 1994, exactly two years

22:29

after killing Katie, a 14-year-old

22:31

car struck again. This time, the

22:33

target was a 13-year-old girl in

22:36

the year below at Collingwood College,

22:38

where car was also a pupil.

22:40

Luring the girl into the school

22:42

toilets under the pretense of helping

22:45

a look for a lost coin,

22:47

car launched a brutal and unprovoked

22:49

attack. Armed with a four-inch

22:51

knife, she stabbed the young girl in

22:54

the back, puncturing her lung in the

22:56

process. By some miracle, the girl

22:58

survived. The assault was only stopped

23:00

when five other students walked in

23:03

and saw what was happening. Who

23:05

knows what had happened had they

23:07

not intervened? Reports stated

23:09

that Carr was smiling during the

23:11

attack, once more enjoying the violence

23:13

she unleashed on others. And she didn't

23:16

hang about, Carr quickly fled the

23:18

scene. But rather than keeping her head

23:20

down, she turned up at the school

23:22

gates the next morning, much to everyone's

23:24

surprise. She was seen chatting with friends

23:27

as if nothing had happened, and she

23:29

was arrested soon after. Carr was then taken

23:31

to a nearby assessment centre,

23:33

where her violent tendencies continued,

23:35

with reports stating that she

23:37

attempted to strangle two members

23:40

of staff. This revealed that a regression

23:42

was not just reserved for fellow

23:44

children. In December 1994, Carr

23:46

was formally charged with two counts

23:48

of actual bodily harm for the

23:50

school attack and she was sentenced

23:52

to two years in a young

23:54

offender's institution. While in custody, her

23:57

violent behaviour continued. She

23:59

was initially... placed in psychiatric facilities

24:01

but continued assaulting other female inmates,

24:03

leading to her transfer to an

24:06

all-boys unit at Acliff Secure Center.

24:08

By September 95 authorities decided she

24:10

would be better managed at Bullwood

24:13

Hall Young Offenders Institution, a facility

24:15

that was better placed to handle

24:17

her aggressive and sexualised behaviour. But

24:20

it was during her time in

24:22

custody that a deeply disturbing obsession

24:24

with Katie's murder came to light.

24:27

Prison staff discovered that Carr had

24:29

been openly discussing the murder with

24:31

friends and family, even writing about

24:34

it in her diary entries. Those

24:36

entries are, honestly, beyond chilling and

24:38

revealing insight into her sexual excitement

24:41

at the thought occurred his death.

24:43

She described feelings of jealousy toward

24:45

her victim and made references to

24:48

being motivated by the devil. It's

24:50

worth noting that the media would

24:52

later refer to Carr as the

24:55

devil's daughter. Perhaps partly down to

24:57

the behaviour of her mum, as

24:59

well as the satanic references in

25:02

her diary. Among the writings were

25:04

disturbing drawings and explicit confessions. I'm

25:06

going to read a few for

25:09

you now and they will be

25:11

difficult to hear. Feel free to

25:13

skip ahead a little bit if

25:16

you don't want to hear them.

25:18

The first reads, Remember K.R. Oh

25:20

God, she did get me going.

25:23

So hot. Pity really. I think

25:25

about it and my head is

25:27

spinning. but against the cops I'm

25:30

winning. That was a diary entry

25:32

on January 13th, 1995. If only

25:34

I could kill you again, I

25:37

promise I would make you suffer

25:39

more this time. Your terrified screams

25:41

turned me on. That one was

25:44

written on May 15th, 1995. I

25:46

enjoyed putting the blade in her.

25:48

It made me feel powerful. I

25:51

had to overcome her surrender, her

25:53

security. She needed to be raped.

25:55

That showed her well. That's a

25:58

diary entry from September 20th. 25th

26:00

95th 95. Last night it occurred

26:02

to me that killing her did me

26:04

good. Now I know what I am capable

26:07

of and I will do it again.

26:09

November 13th 95. And the

26:11

last one I'll reveal reads,

26:13

Killing for me is a mass turn

26:16

on. It just makes me so high

26:18

and I don't ever want to come

26:20

down. That was written in a

26:22

letter to a friend in January

26:25

96. It was in that month,

26:27

January 1996, that Carr took things

26:29

even further by confessing her crimes

26:31

to a prison officer she reportedly

26:34

fancied. She also spoke in detail

26:36

about Katie's murder to a probation

26:38

officer. Concerned staff alerted the police,

26:40

who seized all of Carr's diaries,

26:42

drawings and letters, and that was

26:45

a move that would ultimately lead

26:47

to her arrest on suspicion and

26:49

murder. When detectives interviewed her

26:51

she gave conflicting stories about what

26:54

had happened the night Katie were

26:56

murdered. She initially claimed she'd been

26:58

in a car with two cousins

27:00

who'd befriended Katie and picked her

27:02

up. However police found no evidence

27:04

linking the cousins to the crime. Carl

27:06

later retracted that statement in

27:08

July 1996, instead claiming she'd

27:10

been out drinking beer, smoking

27:12

sigs and playing footie before

27:14

going home. She said she'd been at home

27:17

with her mum. who as you might have

27:19

expected backed up a alibi, but detectives had

27:21

already taped Carr confessing to her

27:23

mum about the murder. In some versions

27:25

of Carr's testimony, she claimed the two

27:28

boys in the car had sexually assaulted

27:30

Kated before dumping a body, but again,

27:32

once it were investigated, the boys were

27:35

able to provide alibis for each other,

27:37

ruling him out. They may well have been the

27:39

two cousins mentioned earlier, but I can't say

27:42

for sure. Despite her

27:44

contradictions, Carr provided one critical

27:46

piece of information. A specific

27:48

injury sustained by Katie that the

27:51

police had deliberately withheld from the

27:53

public. She also admitted to stealing

27:55

Katie's bracelet, another detail never

27:58

released by investigation. With no

28:00

forensic evidence directly linking Carter the

28:03

murder, it was her own words,

28:05

her own writings and her own

28:07

confessions that sealed a fate. In

28:10

June, 1996, on the fourth anniversary

28:12

of Katie's murder, Carr wrote in

28:15

another disturbing diary entry, respect to

28:17

Katie Radcliffe, four years ago today.

28:19

On March 25th, 1997, after a

28:22

month-long trial at Winchester Crown Court,

28:24

Carr was unanimously found guilty of

28:27

murder after the jury deliberated for

28:29

five hours. Age just 12 when

28:31

she killed Katie, Carr became the

28:34

youngest female ever to be found

28:36

guilty of murder in a British

28:39

court. She was sentenced to detention

28:41

during her majesty's pleasure, the juvenile

28:43

equivalent of a life sentence by

28:46

Mr Justice Baker, who handed her

28:48

a minimum term of 14 years.

28:50

It was her conviction for murder

28:53

rather than manslaughter that set her

28:55

apart from Mary Bell, who was

28:58

10 years old when she killed

29:00

two boys in Newcastle-upon-tyne in 1968.

29:02

Bell was convicted of manslaughter, not

29:05

murder. During sentencing, Mr. Justi's Baker

29:07

said, What is clear is that

29:10

you had a sexual motive for

29:12

this killing, and it's apparent both

29:14

from the brutal manner in which

29:17

you moved to let her body

29:19

and chilling diary entries, that killing,

29:22

as you put it, turns you

29:24

on. You are in my view

29:26

an extremely dangerous young woman. As

29:29

Carl left the dock she was

29:31

once more seen smiling. Shortly after

29:34

a sentencing she was diagnosed with

29:36

schizo-effective disorder which according to mind

29:38

is a mental health problem where

29:41

you experience psychosis as well as

29:43

mood symptoms. Regardless no clear motive

29:45

for the murder of Katie Rackliff

29:48

has ever been established. Now

29:51

since being in prison cars violent

29:53

behaviour has continued, she was initially

29:55

held at Holloway before being transferred

29:57

to Broadmoor Hospital in 1998. While

29:59

there, she regularly attacked staff and

30:02

other residents, while also admitting that

30:04

she wanted to kill a fellow

30:06

inmate by slitting her throat. One

30:08

report suggested that Carr at times

30:11

believed she was a lizard, with

30:13

her attempting to cut herself open

30:15

to see if she was still

30:17

human. In 2001, Carr made headlines

30:19

when it was revealed she was

30:22

engaged to fellow Broadmott inmate Robert

30:24

Lane after being in a relationship

30:26

for almost a year. Lane had

30:28

been detained in 1996 for the

30:31

manslaughter of his mom, Linda Pennell,

30:33

whom he brutally beat to death

30:35

before gouging her eyes out. Strangely,

30:37

after Carr and Lane read a

30:39

news article detailing each other's crimes,

30:42

they were said to have been

30:44

so disgusted with one another that

30:46

they called the wedding off. In

30:48

2004, Carr's legal team attempted to

30:51

challenge the 14-year minimum term and

30:53

reduced the conviction from murder to

30:55

manslaughter on the grounds of diminished

30:57

responsibility. Both of those appeals were

31:00

dismissed. She was moved to the

31:02

medium secure orchid unit in 2007,

31:04

but by 2015, she was transferred

31:06

to Brunswick Prison as a restricted

31:08

state as prisoner, because she was

31:11

deemed too dangerous for a psychiatric

31:13

facility. Her warrant stated that she

31:15

either no longer required treatment or

31:17

that no effective treatment could be

31:20

given. By December 2018, Cowes moved

31:22

to Low Newton Prison, but following

31:24

a violent altercation with another inmate

31:26

in August the following year, she

31:28

was returned to Bronzefield. Also in

31:31

2019, she applied for her restricted

31:33

status to be downgraded, but this

31:35

was denied. In 2020, she appealed

31:37

the decision, but again it was

31:40

rejected because she'd shown no significant

31:42

evidence of reduced risk. It was

31:44

later revealed that Carr had spoken

31:46

about her desire to murder another

31:49

inmate by smashing her head with

31:51

a flask and pushing her down

31:53

the stairs. The judge warned that

31:55

if Carr were placed in relaxed

31:57

conditions she would likely form intense

32:00

relationships with feet. that turned into

32:02

violent fantasies when thwarted. Despite

32:05

all of that, Carr applied for

32:07

parole in late 2022. Her request

32:09

was denied in August, 2023,

32:12

with the decision citing that

32:14

she was still violent and

32:16

too dangerous to be released,

32:19

26 years after murdering Katie

32:21

Radcliffe at the tender age

32:23

of 12. And

32:26

that was the story of the murder

32:28

of Katie Radcliffe. Thanks again, Kathy Kirstie

32:30

and Mr Mighty Clash for suggesting it.

32:33

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. There's

32:35

so much to cover in this case

32:37

though. And there's probably a lot I've

32:39

missed out. If you want to find

32:41

out more, there's plenty of resources. You

32:44

can start with the ones in my

32:46

episode description on British Murders. This week's

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not. Lee's 0151 left a review on

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