0:00

Disclamor. This podcast contains

0:02

elements that may be alarming

0:04

to some listeners. Due to

0:06

the nature of the content,

0:08

listener discretion is advised.

0:10

You are not listening to

0:13

British brothers. The two quarry

0:15

podcast. Hello

0:29

everyone and welcome back to the

0:31

Crime Roundup. This is the February

0:33

2025 edition of this monthly, new-ish

0:35

monthly series with myself, stroke blues

0:37

of British Murders, and my co-host

0:39

Adam from the UK True Crime

0:41

Podcast. Welcome Adam, how are you?

0:43

Hey shirt, good to see you again. I hope

0:45

you all enjoyed last month's episode. I got

0:48

some good feedback actually, I don't know

0:50

about yourself. A lot of people seem

0:52

to enjoy this format. Did you hear

0:54

anything similar? Yeah, loads of people said

0:56

really good stuff about my input. It

0:59

was less complementary about you, but you

1:01

know, hopefully you'll improve given time. That's

1:03

always the case. I'm the far inexperienced

1:06

one of the two, as experienced as

1:08

I have. Just as a bit of

1:10

a refresher for anyone who may be

1:13

listening to this for the first time.

1:15

This is Adam and I talking about

1:17

cases in the news, not necessarily murder,

1:20

but just true crime or crime-ish in

1:22

general. And we're going to cover some

1:24

local stories. So I'm in Leeds. Adam

1:26

is up in Scotland, some national headlines,

1:29

some international or unusual crimes, and then

1:31

on the end we will end with

1:33

some quirky or offbeat, is what they

1:35

call it, offbeat news, just to end

1:37

on a high note. There will be

1:39

some stuff that's in the news that

1:41

we won't cover, we can't cover everything,

1:44

but if you think there's something we

1:46

should cover, please get in touch with

1:48

either of us and we'll do our

1:50

best and maybe give you a shout out for

1:52

your trouble if we fancy it. So, we

1:54

move on to the local stories. Would you

1:56

like to start or would you like me to

1:58

Adam? Let me go first. today. Because this

2:00

story, since I saw it, I wanted

2:03

to talk to you about it. So

2:05

this sort of crime, it really gets

2:07

to me. It happened in Karluki, if

2:09

I've pronounced that correctly. It's about 10

2:11

miles southeast of Glasgow, and actually it's

2:13

the hometown to Professor David Wilson, who

2:15

you interviewed recently, didn't you? Yes, I

2:18

did. It was the scene in 1973,

2:20

by the way, of the unsolved murder

2:22

of Margaret McLaughlin. She was 23 when

2:24

she was died. I tried in my

2:26

book. I thought it might have been...

2:28

the responsibility of Angus Sinclair, but I

2:31

know that others, including Professor Wilson, who

2:33

wrote a book on it, has other

2:35

suspects, but look, I'm digressing. The case

2:37

in Kahliki came to court this week,

2:39

it really sickened me, yeah, you're a

2:41

dad, as a mai. So this dad

2:43

got a call about 8 p.m. at

2:46

night, say his son was being attacked

2:48

in the centre there. And when he

2:50

turned up, he was set upon two.

2:52

He arrived to find like this group

2:54

of local louts all around his son.

2:56

I mean... Can you just imagine that

2:58

as your son when you got the

3:01

call? So this man asked him what

3:03

was going on and a fight broke

3:05

hell. And this older, middle-aged man, he

3:07

was knocked to the ground by these

3:09

three utter idiots. I'm going to name

3:11

them in case people know them. Twenty-four-year-old

3:13

John Galt, 28-year-old Sean Thorpe, 28-year-old Stephen

3:16

Kelly. But these aren't kids, right? Knocked

3:18

him to the floor, they kicked his

3:20

head, knocked him unconscious, knocked him unconscious.

3:22

And the effect of this attack, it

3:24

so bad. It's so bad. It's so

3:26

bad. that the family had to move

3:28

from the area. It's not even the

3:31

first time for these guys, like galt.

3:33

He, another time I read about, a

3:35

woman was phoned by her son shortly

3:37

after 10 p.m. He was in a

3:39

takeaway, he's being abused by this idiot

3:41

galt. And then members of the public

3:43

finally got him to go away, he

3:46

was threatening to attack the sun. But

3:48

what did he do? He pulled out

3:50

of firework, he lit it, and threw

3:52

it on the street where it, where

3:54

it exploded, just intimidating people. normal people

3:56

going about their business. These idiots will

3:58

be sentenced next month. But let's... Let's

4:01

be honest, these people are what stops

4:03

normal people going out to the high

4:05

street, spending their money, enjoying themselves

4:08

on Friday and Saturday nights. You know

4:10

my view on prison, right? I want

4:12

to avoid it whenever possible. But

4:14

this sort of behaviour annoys me so

4:16

much, just who do they think they are?

4:18

Hard to spend them all to prison for

4:21

20 years. What's your view on that

4:23

story, ship? It's one of them reasons

4:25

why you talk about back in our day,

4:27

we would go out. as kids on his

4:29

own, parents would be quite comfortable

4:32

with that. You would go out when the

4:34

sun comes up and you'd come back

4:36

when it was dark, right? That's how

4:38

it was. Nowadays, no one lets the

4:40

kids out at all, regardless of age.

4:43

I'm the same. You might be the same

4:45

also. This is happening all the

4:47

time. And the fact that it's a gang

4:49

is so cowardly. three of them. And

4:51

like I said, these are grown men

4:53

approaching 30 some of them. They should

4:56

know better. What's going on in their

4:58

lives? And it doesn't justify anything, but

5:00

I'm always interested in finding

5:02

out how the hell do you get to

5:04

28 and think that's still appropriate? How

5:07

old was his son out of

5:09

interest? I think his son was about

5:11

20 and this guy must have been

5:13

about 45, 50 or something. And again,

5:15

the lack of respect when he turns

5:17

out. trying to help out his son,

5:20

his head is in trouble. And yet they

5:22

beat him up. I mean, how can you

5:24

do that? And also it's all in

5:26

public. They almost don't care. It's

5:28

always, yeah, I hate to sound

5:30

like a tabloid headline, but it's

5:32

almost like lawless Britain, isn't it?

5:35

Well, the prisons are full. What's

5:37

realistically, what's going to happen

5:39

to them? And what are they going to

5:41

get? I imagine the ringleader might get a

5:44

couple years, do you think, out in a

5:46

year? It works through jail time. What

5:48

annoys me as well as these guys will

5:50

have younger people coming through who see them

5:52

as some sort of hero and the

5:55

cycle just perpetuates. I find it

5:57

deeply depressing. But look, let's move

5:59

on freight. just upsets me really.

6:01

So tell me about your local

6:03

case. Sure. So this case, it's

6:06

a bit more light-hearted than that.

6:08

I'm not gonna lie. Good. And

6:10

this comes from Leeds Live, which

6:12

is our online newspaper article for

6:15

Leeds, right? And the headline, I

6:17

just love headlines, how they always

6:19

come up with some kind of

6:21

adjective to describe people. So this

6:24

headline is filthy fraudster. pretended to

6:26

work for Greg's to nick thousands

6:28

from Leeds City Council. And this

6:30

takes us all the way back

6:33

to May 2020. Philpha, this guy,

6:35

according to Leeds Live. So back

6:37

in May of 2020, this is

6:39

the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.

6:42

A man called Aftab, vague or

6:44

biog, B-A-I-G. A 47-year-old man, I

6:46

was actually from Glasgow. He came

6:49

up with a rather brazen scheme.

6:51

He contacted the city council and

6:53

he pretended to be a group

6:55

property manager from Greg's head office.

6:58

He informed the council that lockdown

7:00

restrictions had left him unable to

7:02

access certain business rates information for

7:04

Greg's branches across the city. So

7:07

the council, believing him to be

7:09

legitimate, as you would, why the

7:11

hell not, provided the details as

7:13

requested which surely is some kind

7:16

of breach of some kind of

7:18

policy I would have thought. And

7:20

that's when we're calling big, that's

7:22

when big put his real plan

7:25

into action. So he's got this

7:27

information and he uses that information

7:29

to apply for rates relief from

7:31

the small business grant fund. So

7:34

this was money, I don't if

7:36

you remember this, that was supposed

7:38

to help struggling businesses stay afloat

7:40

during the pandemic. Yeah. Little bit

7:43

of a segue. My real world

7:45

job is in banking. I've worked

7:47

in banking for over a decade.

7:49

And around the time of COVID,

7:52

mainly 2020-2021, there were so many...

7:54

government backed COVID loans handed out

7:56

fraudulently because businesses or people pretending

7:58

to businesses were applying for these

8:01

grants and they were just being

8:03

given out left right and center.

8:05

You can imagine how many applications

8:07

they were. The checks weren't stringent

8:10

enough and people made an absolute

8:12

killing off that. I did read

8:14

a stat that over 16,000 businesses

8:17

who took out loans legitimately have

8:19

since gone bust, which means that

8:21

unable to pay it back. It

8:23

is gracious. So you think of

8:26

the budget and the taxes and

8:28

stuff going up, the cost of

8:30

beer and the government's just handing

8:32

out loans willy-nilly, they'll never get

8:35

back. Anyway, back to big. So

8:37

he managed to claim £710,000 pounds,

8:39

which was deposited into a bank

8:41

account linked to his catering business.

8:44

Now I don't know how official

8:46

this catering business is, but it

8:48

was certainly nothing to do with

8:50

Greg's right. But it didn't take

8:53

long for the council to catch

8:55

on. give them credit where it's

8:57

due. Just months after the claims

8:59

were made, his account was frozen.

9:02

And while some of the stolen

9:04

funds were recovered, more than 90,000

9:06

pounds remained outstanding. His house was

9:08

raided that July 2020, and they

9:11

found 16 grand in cash, as

9:13

well as some forged remittance slips.

9:15

So this suggested he was planning

9:17

yet another move to try and

9:20

retrieve the money, because you can't

9:22

withdraw all that money at once.

9:24

that will raise a red flag

9:26

and national crime agency could get

9:29

involved if your bank is doing

9:31

what they're supposed to do. He

9:33

was arrested for this and finally

9:35

on February 12th this year he

9:38

was found guilty at Leeds Crown

9:40

Court on three counts of fraud.

9:42

The CPS have made it clear

9:45

he exploited a crisis to line

9:47

his own pockets stealing public funds

9:49

meant to help small businesses survive

9:51

during an unprecedented period of struggle.

9:54

and now proceedings are in place

9:56

to recover any assets linked to

9:58

his fraudulent activity. is. My question

10:00

to you is, I mean, it

10:03

doesn't actually say what his sentence

10:05

is. I'm assuming that will come soon,

10:07

but I can't speak to how harsh

10:09

they are or whether they're too

10:11

lenient. But how do you think

10:14

an individual can pull off such

10:16

a large scale fraud? Do you think

10:18

the COVID is the main reason? I'm

10:20

terribly cynical now I get older. I've

10:22

got no faith in our authorities. I

10:25

think you don't have to be a

10:27

genius to hood wink them. But what

10:29

worries me about this case as well

10:31

is no doubt they're going to send

10:33

him to prison and go back to the

10:35

case I just spoke about, those guys are

10:38

a danger to you or me, they absolutely

10:40

should be in prison. This guy to me

10:42

should not be in prison. He should not

10:44

be in prison. He should be rather

10:46

than given five years in prison, let's

10:48

give him ten years community service, let's

10:50

get him cleaning the chewing gum off

10:53

the street, clean up the dog poo, six

10:55

days a week, eight days a week, eight to

10:57

six days a week, I just don't, I don't

10:59

see it. It's one of them things,

11:01

isn't it, with fraudsters? I'm

11:03

inclined to agree. Prisons, because

11:05

it's a secure facility, in theory,

11:08

should be to protect the public

11:10

from potential harm and risk. Fraud

11:12

is of course a risk and

11:14

it's devastating. It can be

11:16

embarrassing. But again, they could give

11:18

back to the community that they've

11:20

taken from, rather than be locked

11:23

up behind bars. So I'm totally

11:25

with you on that one. Yeah, it's

11:27

too easy. I... goodness ma'am, I

11:29

sound like I'm real old gits

11:31

now, but it's too easy to

11:33

say, further in prison, the deterrence,

11:35

but my general rule is, if

11:37

they're not a danger to you

11:39

or I, there's better ways to

11:42

deal with them. Give them double

11:44

the sentence, right? Let's not let

11:46

them off. This isn't let them off.

11:48

It's eight to six, six days a

11:50

week. But let's make them work and

11:53

give back to the community. Yeah, I've

11:55

got one. It's quite an issue one,

11:57

I think. Now, I usually stare well.

12:00

clear of any crimes involving children

12:02

in my podcast, right? Do you

12:04

have them on yours, Joe? Infrequently.

12:06

They tend to knock me for

12:08

six when I do cover them,

12:10

so if I can I will

12:12

avoid them. Yeah, I'm the same,

12:14

and even on my Facebook group,

12:16

I try not to post anything

12:18

about children's crimes, and a lot

12:20

of this is due to one

12:22

crime, which... Just made me so

12:24

upset. Now, cases we've discussed this

12:26

before, they don't normally affect me,

12:28

make me upset, but this one

12:30

really did. It's the murder and

12:32

sexual assault of Sophie Hook in

12:34

1995. Do you recall this case?

12:37

Doesn't ring a bell, unfortunately. Okay,

12:39

well look, the reason I bring

12:41

up today is because this guy

12:43

who murdered her, guy is not

12:45

a guy, he's a monster. It's

12:47

called Howard Hughes, he's now 59.

12:49

It's been in the papers the

12:51

last few days the last few

12:53

days. He's hired a new legal

12:55

team. Again. Apparently, according to reports,

12:57

Hughes has never accepted his guilt,

12:59

and he spends his time in

13:01

prison telling anyone that will listen,

13:03

and there's always someone that will

13:05

listen, right, that he didn't do

13:07

it. But the case itself is

13:09

just the worst. I mean, just

13:11

give you the very brief details.

13:13

Sophie was seven. She'd been visiting

13:16

relatives at her own called Danny's

13:18

seaside home in Wales, but indeed

13:20

knew, I can never pronounce it

13:22

right, for her cousin's birthday. Then

13:24

this Sunday afternoon in July 1995...

13:26

She was playing with the other

13:28

children as they do in inflatable

13:30

pool, but Hughes was watching on

13:32

from bushes looking over the garden.

13:34

Then he heard them talking about

13:36

a sleepover and a tent in

13:38

the garden that night. Later that

13:40

day he tried to abduct a

13:42

six-year-old girl from a park, but

13:44

she managed to escape from his

13:46

sister. But by 7.15am, she had

13:48

been taken by Hughes. He's six

13:50

for eight of this guy. Imagine

13:52

how terrified, poor so if he

13:55

must have been. And he just

13:57

assaulted her in the most awful

13:59

way. before dumbing her body in

14:01

the sea. Look, I'm not going

14:03

to go into the detail, but

14:05

it was said by the pathologist

14:07

that her injuries were similar to

14:09

you'd expect for people killed in

14:11

major car collisions. And they believe

14:13

that most of her injuries were

14:15

sustained while she was still alive.

14:17

And then he just tossed her

14:19

in the sea when he's finished

14:21

with her. Look, I just hope

14:23

this man has never released. Of

14:25

course he shouldn't be. But how

14:27

much do you trust our authorities?

14:29

I mean look at Colin Pitchthought,

14:31

he was that out, and they

14:34

almost let out that John Warboy's

14:36

guiding their taxi driver. I can't

14:38

think how a family must react,

14:40

reading these reports. What do you

14:42

think, Shoo? It's an interesting debate

14:44

about rehabilitation, isn't it? Because for

14:46

me, there's some crimes that are

14:48

unforgivable. And I think... It's a

14:50

shock at how infrequently whole life

14:52

tariffs are handed out. For cases

14:54

such as this, it should be

14:56

instant automatic. You're never getting out

14:58

of prison. Because how can you

15:00

rehabilitate a pedophile, pedophilic murderer, who

15:02

after all these years, has the

15:04

arrogance to still claim innocence when

15:06

they've been convicted? And he's trying

15:08

to claim it a few times

15:10

over the years. look we weren't

15:13

in the trial as I understand

15:15

the evidence against him was utterly

15:17

damning. It reminds me of something

15:19

else just briefly I got in

15:21

a bit of trouble off my

15:23

episode last week because in my

15:25

episode last week the the murderer

15:27

he then tried to kill himself

15:29

and he now needs 24-7 care

15:31

and I've been very affected by

15:33

the reports on the South Port

15:35

murders as we all have and

15:37

this guy is what 18 he's

15:39

gonna be in prison for the

15:41

rest of his life and on

15:43

my podcast episode I brought up

15:45

the point that I know people

15:47

like me were totally against the

15:49

death penalty. I've always been completely

15:52

against it. And yet people think,

15:54

well, maybe this is one of

15:56

those exceptions. And this guy as

15:58

well, Howard Hughes, maybe he's one

16:00

of those exceptions. I mean, I

16:02

don't know the answer, but some

16:04

people get very offended when it's

16:06

even debated. Yeah, I think it's

16:08

wrong to be offended by that, because

16:10

either way, whichever side of the scale

16:12

you're on, it's an opinion, right? So

16:14

it doesn't make sense to, and it

16:16

doesn't just talk about the death penalty,

16:18

people get pissed off if you don't

16:21

like the same band as them, you

16:23

know? This is how entitled and gatekeeping

16:25

some people are, but my concern with

16:27

the death penalty is. And it's, this

16:29

sounds awful, but we can say this

16:32

because Touchwood, we haven't been in

16:34

the situation. If you're the

16:36

parents of Sophie, then understandably

16:38

you might feel differently, but

16:40

what would that achieve? What would that

16:43

achieve? What would that achieve? Because let's

16:45

say you do the death sentence, he

16:47

gets killed, then what? The hurt doesn't

16:49

go away, the hole in your heart

16:51

doesn't go away, the grief doesn't go

16:54

away, the grief doesn't stop, what does

16:56

that achieve? I don't know, it's a tough

16:58

one. And it's hard to give

17:00

an accurate opinion when you haven't

17:02

been in that situation. Yeah, but I'm

17:04

the same. I just think it's never

17:06

the right thing to do. But I

17:08

think it's absolutely right that

17:10

in some of these cases we

17:12

should be talking about it. Because

17:15

things change, are they? Opinions, change,

17:17

over the years. I do. I mean, it's

17:19

one of those ironic things about, you

17:21

know, you teach your child not to

17:23

hit, but then you punish them by

17:25

hitting them by hitting them. Yeah,

17:28

vigilante justice kind of thing,

17:30

isn't it? Anyone would think

17:32

our society is based on

17:34

hypocrisy. You'd never say shirt,

17:36

would you? No, absolutely not. Anyway, let's

17:39

go on to your case. What

17:41

have you got for us? So

17:43

I've got a couple, they're

17:45

both fairly short, but I'll go

17:47

through the first one. Before we

17:50

get there, what's your opinion

17:52

on Valentine's Day? Probably

17:54

since the first year we met. This

17:57

year we actually went out for dinner

17:59

on Valentine's Day. but we did go to

18:01

a few pubs on the way and I

18:03

don't care if it's Valentine's Day

18:05

I don't care if it's March

18:07

the 17th I'm the same with

18:10

anniversaries of people that have close

18:12

to me that have died for

18:14

example I don't celebrate them it's

18:17

just as important to me on

18:19

December the 17th as it is the

18:21

day they died so in answer to your

18:23

question couldn't care less you

18:25

yeah I dead against it to be harsh

18:27

But you know what annoys me? We get

18:30

each other a card and that's about the

18:32

limit. I'm happy with that. Well, I'll put

18:34

up with that. I just think, why do I

18:36

have to express to you my love for

18:38

you? On one day of the year, because

18:40

people want to profit off cards and gifts

18:42

and on that one particular day, I

18:45

don't understand it. And it's... I said

18:47

to my friend, he went to Morrison's

18:49

on Valentine's Day, because he'd ordered a

18:51

card online, it hadn't come yet, and

18:53

he was going to make his own

18:55

card or something. And I goes, do me

18:57

a favor, I goes, count how many

18:59

middle-aged men you see running to the

19:02

flower aisle, the card aisle, and as

19:04

soon as he pulled up in the

19:06

car park, he sends someone running

19:08

out with a rose in his hand. Now,

19:10

you can't tell me that that guy's

19:13

partner is over the moon. Oh,

19:15

he loves me. It's not unique. It's

19:17

cliche, if anything. I would

19:19

happily never celebrate Valentine's

19:21

Day. Because my love is everyday

19:23

ad. Oh shit, what a video. I think

19:25

we should move on, but yeah, this

19:27

sounds a story. I'm going to throw

19:29

up in a minute. You're offending our

19:32

business. Oh no, my bad. The reason

19:34

I bring it up is because my

19:36

next story occurred on Valentine's

19:38

Day. Now, this small quiet village in

19:40

Kent became the scene of a shocking

19:42

crime on that day of love, when

19:44

a woman was fatally shot at the

19:46

local pub, so we're bringing it

19:48

back to seriousness here. It all happened

19:51

at the three horseshoes. This is

19:53

in a place called Knockalt, near

19:55

Seven Oaks, and it was just

19:57

after 7 p.m. that night. The

19:59

police were called... reports of a

20:01

disturbance but when they arrived at

20:03

the scene they found a woman

20:05

who was in her 40s suffering

20:07

from gunshot wounds sadly she was

20:09

pronounced dead at the scene now

20:11

I'm just looking through my notes

20:13

I don't think either the woman

20:15

or the suspect have been named

20:18

because this is a very very

20:20

recent story the suspect is said

20:22

to have been a man who

20:24

knew the victim whether they were

20:26

partners or not I can't say

20:28

at this stage but this stage

20:30

but this gets curious because he

20:32

fled the scene immediately after the

20:34

shooting as you would expect and

20:36

this triggered a bit of a

20:38

man hunt but a short while

20:40

later police found a vehicle linked

20:43

to the case at the Dartford

20:45

crossing as well as a firearm

20:47

the Dartford crossing is a major

20:49

road crossing the river Thames for

20:51

those listening that aren't in the

20:53

no or local to the area

20:55

but then came another twist Officers

20:57

receive reports of a man on

20:59

the wrong side of the barrier

21:01

at this crossing and it's one

21:03

of these big suspension bridge things

21:05

by the looks of it. And

21:08

now investigators believe that the suspect

21:10

may have entered the river Thames,

21:12

i.e. jumped in from the bridge.

21:14

And at the time of writing

21:16

the police aren't looking for anyone

21:18

else and they've assured the public

21:20

that this was a bit of

21:22

an isolated incident and there's no

21:24

ongoing threat. But it's left the

21:26

locals understandably in a state of

21:28

complete shock. Parish councillor Ray Picot,

21:30

Picot, Forgive me Ray, described hearing

21:33

a couple of loud bangs around

21:35

the time of the incident. Now

21:37

he said this pub is busy,

21:39

especially on Valentine's Day. It's well

21:41

managed, no history of trouble, it's

21:43

a well run establishment. And another

21:45

resident recalled hearing three to four

21:47

loud bangs followed by a woman

21:49

shouting. So this is an incident

21:51

that's been heard by the locals.

21:53

The pub did release a statement

21:55

expressing condolences to the victim's family

21:58

and support for the community. They

22:00

did close for a day. but

22:02

reopened soon after. And there's just

22:04

so many unanswered questions with this

22:06

one. I mean most notably, if

22:08

this person did jump from the

22:10

bridge, did they survive? If they

22:12

entered the water. But if they

22:14

didn't jump in the Thames, no

22:16

one knows where they would have

22:18

gone. Do you know what

22:21

the Dartford crossing is? I don't know

22:23

how high it is. Actually, when I

22:25

left here to move to Spain, I

22:27

said, one of the reasons was I

22:29

never have to drive across that blasted

22:31

crossing again. It's a nightmare. People that

22:34

use it will know, going from Essex

22:36

to Kent, you're over the bridge, it's

22:38

always massive queues, and there's often accidents.

22:40

You come out the other way, it's

22:42

even worse, and you go under. But

22:44

it's a massive, massive, massive bridge. And

22:47

to think, and to think, and to

22:49

say. But I think other people that

22:51

have jumped in the past, I think

22:53

sometimes because of the strong tides in

22:55

the Thames, you're not far away from

22:57

going out into the North Sea. So

23:00

it's one of those cases where the

23:02

body may never be recovered. How do

23:04

you think an instance like this? Because

23:06

it seems like it's open and shut.

23:08

This woman was killed by someone who

23:10

knew her, the main assumption is going

23:13

to be it's her partner, they've gone

23:15

out for a meal or for a

23:17

drink or whatever. The concerning part is

23:19

that, assuming this weapon was this suspect's

23:21

weapon, he's taking it with him to

23:23

this evening out. Now guns are pretty

23:26

much banned in our country, right? Unless

23:28

you're at a gun club and you

23:30

have a licence and for farmers or

23:32

whatever. It's not like America where you

23:34

have far less stringent gun rules, but

23:36

I think it's bizarre that this guy...

23:39

We normally think about knife carrying as

23:41

a problem, don't we? But this gun

23:43

carrying? That really shocked me. There's a

23:45

couple of things. First of all, this

23:47

is a time stamp this year. It's

23:49

1045 on Monday the 17th of February

23:51

in case everything's changed. Yes, it may

23:54

have changed it and this was 7

23:56

p.m. 3 days ago. So forgive me

23:58

if I'm outdated by the time you

24:00

hear this, forgive me. It won't be

24:02

the first time you'd be called out

24:04

a date to share it as a...

24:07

I don't know. When I see this

24:09

sort of story, okay, so my first

24:11

thought when I hear it, I understand

24:13

there are reasons why the police don't

24:15

give full information, but I think it's

24:17

always a mistake. I think they should

24:20

be much more open about it all.

24:22

I don't understand why they don't give

24:24

much more information immediately, because it just

24:26

encourages people, I've seen it on numerous

24:28

forums, people discussing it. If they give

24:30

more information, there's less room for speculation,

24:33

for speculation, right? Do you think they've

24:35

got to balance that though with the

24:37

family's potential hurt by revealing such information?

24:39

I suppose they're maybe trying to keep

24:41

it private for that, but also it

24:43

doesn't help the speculators online like you

24:46

say. I see, I don't quite get

24:48

it. I was thinking more information is

24:50

better, but this is what my issue

24:52

is with police forces over cold cases.

24:54

Yeah, there's all these people sitting in

24:56

their room across the world who are

24:59

fantastic online, okay? They're looking at Google

25:01

Earth and other things. And yet police

25:03

forces who were really stretched, right? They

25:05

don't have enough people to do the

25:07

day to day. They still won't release

25:09

this information to help people. I don't

25:11

get it. I think it's outdated. I

25:14

think it's going to change. But who

25:16

are we to know? It's amazing how

25:18

many cases I've come across where people

25:20

have submitted a freedom of information request

25:22

and I'd say 99% just get declined.

25:24

And it's not even stuff that would

25:27

prejudice an investigation really. It's more... Can

25:29

you tell me if suspect X has

25:31

had any previous convictions and they'll just

25:33

say we're not releasing that information? It's

25:35

back to what you were saying in

25:37

the last story. I just don't think

25:40

our authorities share enough with us. I'm

25:42

about getting political, look at the Southport

25:44

stuff, the four around that, what was

25:46

shared and wasn't shared. That's a massive

25:48

example of that. But when people don't

25:50

share information with us, and why don't

25:53

they? They say operational reasons, right? I

25:55

think in this social media age, I

25:57

think things have changed, share more information,

25:59

be open. We govern by consent, right?

26:01

And it brings back to your first

26:03

story about them three idiots. If they

26:06

respected the police more and our

26:08

authority, they probably wouldn't have done

26:10

that. That's a bit of a jump, I

26:12

appreciate that, but it makes you think

26:14

that as a nation, the respect for the

26:17

police is far from what it was when

26:19

I was growing up. I just can't see how

26:21

it gets any better, either, can you? I have

26:23

no idea. I don't know enough about it to

26:26

comment without looking silly, so... Let's

26:28

move on to the next national

26:30

headline and this is about

26:32

a convenience store in Hartlepool. So

26:35

this is in County Durham,

26:37

northeast England, and a local store

26:39

called Bellevue Bu, Bellevue Boo, so

26:41

I have to say Bellevue Boos,

26:43

so it's a, what would you call it,

26:45

for the type of shop? You've got

26:48

a subject in the morning, sir.

26:50

Sorry about that. Like bargain booze,

26:52

that kind of convenience stuff. It's

26:55

facing a licence review after

26:57

being caught selling counterfeit

26:59

cigarettes and breaching alcohol

27:01

regulations. So, the shop first came

27:04

under scrutiny in September, 2024,

27:06

when Trading Standards received

27:08

intelligence suggesting it was

27:10

selling illicit cigarettes. So

27:12

officers, to investigate this, carried

27:14

out two test purchases in

27:16

October, 2024. And on both occasions,

27:19

they were able to buy counterfeit

27:21

Lambert and Butler silver cigarettes. means

27:23

nothing to me, I don't smoke,

27:25

from the same member of staff. When they

27:27

carried out a further inspection, they also

27:30

found that the shop was selling

27:32

high-strength lagers and ciders in a

27:34

way that violated its license conditions.

27:36

So again, I'm assuming licenses have

27:38

levels to them, you can only

27:40

sell percentages. I don't know the

27:42

ins and outs, but it was said

27:44

to have been breaching breach in that. And

27:46

on top of that, the store

27:49

wasn't fully complying with its CCTV

27:51

requirements because there was no camera

27:53

covering the till area, which must

27:55

be part of the T's and C's.

27:57

The shop's licence holder, Hadi Azag,

28:00

was questioned about the situation.

28:02

His response was he claimed he

28:04

wasn't even in the country when the

28:06

test purchases were made and admitted

28:09

he wasn't entirely sure who was

28:11

working at the time. Is he

28:13

sure? More importantly, he acknowledged that

28:16

he had no real control over

28:18

the premises during that period and

28:20

didn't recognize the person who'd saw

28:23

the illegal cigarettes. He didn't recognize

28:25

it. Probably because there's no footage

28:28

covering the cell. As for the

28:30

alcohol license breaches, Azag said it

28:32

was simply a misunderstanding of

28:34

the conditions, but it's not the first

28:37

time that the shop has been in trouble.

28:39

In 2023 it received a final

28:41

warning after being caught selling counterfeit

28:43

cigarettes and breaching its alcohol license

28:46

in the exact same way, so

28:48

they're not learning the lessons here.

28:50

Back then, Azag blamed the cigarette

28:52

sales on a mystery man in

28:54

a van, who convinced him they were

28:57

duty-free and legal to sell. And now

28:59

because they've got repeated offences on

29:01

record, the shop is facing a

29:03

licence review, although the date for

29:05

the hearing has yet to be confirmed.

29:07

Why take the risk, especially if you've got

29:09

a local shop and you've already been

29:12

caught once, why take the risk again?

29:14

I just don't understand it. I suppose there

29:16

are costs involved, are there with licensing?

29:19

I know nothing about it. There will be

29:21

costs involved, but Jesus, surely the

29:23

hardest part is getting the licence,

29:25

right? You think so, wouldn't you? I mean

29:28

if it's a case of you can only

29:30

sell alcohol up to 6% ABV, selling stuff

29:32

that is, is it that in demand? I

29:34

know, Siggs are expensive, Jesus, even

29:37

in duty free, they're expensive. You look

29:39

at the prices, you think Jesus

29:41

Christ. I just had counterfeit cigarettes.

29:43

What does that mean? I don't

29:46

get it. Do you know Chantel?

29:48

Do you remember Chantel, who did

29:50

the Lady Justice podcast podcast?

29:52

Possibly. Yeah, she hasn't podcasted for a

29:54

while. She's up in Hartlepool. She works in

29:57

the licensed trade, she was saying now, she

29:59

runs a few. hubs, I think. So

30:01

let me check out with her

30:03

and let me report back next

30:05

month on this one, okay? Yeah,

30:07

she's probably heard of the story.

30:09

Yeah. The story will continue after

30:11

these quick messages. And now, back

30:13

to the story. The next section

30:15

we have is International slash Unusual

30:17

Crimes. Have you got something for

30:19

this? Yeah, so my international one.

30:21

We've got a bizarre crime last,

30:24

haven't we right? Yeah, bizarre offbeat,

30:26

yeah, we could put these in

30:28

wherever. All right, let me tell

30:30

you my international one first, because

30:32

again, it's somebody that we both

30:34

know, so in Scotland recently, the

30:36

press has been full of an

30:38

old case, but it's one that's

30:40

been investigated by our friend and

30:42

someone who's familiar to a lot

30:44

of the listeners today that's retired,

30:46

top investigator, David Swindle, you know,

30:48

he makes sure. Yeah, he's been

30:50

a good guys, right. Yeah, very

30:52

good. Yeah, and through his company,

30:54

Victims Abroad, he supports those who

30:56

feel let down by the authorities,

30:58

a bit of a pattern today,

31:00

when their loved ones have died

31:03

in another country. Fortunately, there are

31:05

lots. And this week, a case

31:07

that he's been involved with has

31:09

been in the Scottish media all

31:11

the time. The murder of 26-year-old

31:13

Craig Mallin in the Spanish resort

31:15

of Loretta del Mar, in 2012.

31:17

Are you familiar with this case,

31:19

Stuart? Not the case, but I

31:21

have been to Loret before. Didn't

31:23

like it. Didn't like it. Why

31:25

not? Why didn't you like it?

31:27

It was, I mean, I went

31:29

back in, God, at least a

31:31

decade ago. It was just very,

31:33

it's quite small. It's more of

31:35

a party town. I think people

31:37

go there to go to the

31:39

nightclubs and stuff and I didn't

31:42

go for that. This is before

31:44

we had a kid with my

31:46

old partner. And I don't know,

31:48

it was just... It wasn't great.

31:50

The hotel wasn't great. It was

31:52

really small. There is a nice

31:54

pub there called L Pub. A

31:56

British pub, which is brilliant. The

31:58

people there that run it are

32:00

wonderful. So that we've spent most

32:02

nights in. elpob? It's funny to

32:04

say it's quite a party place,

32:06

so Craig he was there and

32:08

his brother Stagdu and they'd been

32:10

out that night and by 6am

32:12

they were outside Rockefeller's disco bar

32:14

when it closed just after 6am.

32:16

Now Craig's friends had become involved

32:18

in dialogues we say with some

32:20

Spanish or some French males were

32:23

not quite sure who and it

32:25

was at this time that Craig

32:27

was punched on the head. Don't

32:29

know who by. The blow caused

32:31

him to fall to the ground,

32:33

dead. He died instantly. It's one

32:35

of those shocking cases. But nobody's

32:37

been convicted. And the investigation sounds

32:39

reading between the lines and us

32:41

of farce. Now, some cynics would

32:43

suggest that the Spanish authorities didn't

32:45

want to publicize it too much,

32:47

as it could affect tourism. But

32:49

look, if we fast forward to

32:51

today, Craig's mom, she died in

32:53

2018, heartbroken and still not knowing

32:55

who killed her son. Now let

32:57

me quote briefly to you Craig's

32:59

dad Ian in the press this

33:02

week. I find it quite shocking.

33:04

He said, the last time I

33:06

heard anything from the Scottish government

33:08

was 2012, not long after Craig

33:10

was killed. Craig was murdered abroad,

33:12

but 15 years later, known as

33:14

ever been arrested or convicted, in

33:16

connection with his death. The Scottish

33:18

government says these matters are handled

33:20

by the UK government. Westminster does

33:22

nothing, and as a result of

33:24

victims are failed. Families who had

33:26

loved ones murdered abroad are left

33:28

with no answers, no closure and

33:30

no justice. Now, it's fortunate in

33:32

a way that we've got people

33:34

like David Swindle. Now, his team

33:36

have done some amazing investigative work

33:38

and they've produced a dossier detailing

33:41

13 new witnesses. But what's going

33:43

to happen with this? I just

33:45

concerned that Greg's friends and family,

33:47

they've been totally let down, haven't

33:49

they? And with the drift of

33:51

time now... I feel we're never

33:53

going to see justice and it's

33:55

not just Craig there are plenty

33:57

of other people that David Swindles

33:59

team and others are working on.

34:01

Cases of people murdered abroad. It's

34:03

very interesting you bring this up

34:05

and I'm not trying to hijack

34:07

Craig. story, but I went to

34:09

Malia. It might have been Santi

34:11

actually, again Greece. I think it

34:13

was 2010, or it might be

34:15

the years are relevant, but it's

34:17

around that time. And there was

34:20

a bar there called Cocktails and

34:22

Dreams. Anyone listening that's been there,

34:24

again, this was a thing you'd

34:26

go to when you're 18, 19

34:28

in the summer. Malia, Magaluve, all

34:30

these places, we went to Zanta.

34:32

And we're in this bar. And

34:34

me and me and one of

34:36

my mates of my matesates went...

34:38

early because it was a bit

34:40

crapping then. One of my other

34:42

mates was getting a bit leery.

34:44

So he went back and the

34:46

next day we got woken up

34:48

by him and he had two

34:50

black eyes who looked like a

34:52

pander and he reckoned that he'd

34:54

been jumped by the staff there

34:56

for trying to protect this female

34:58

reveler. Now that's his version of

35:01

events, right? He reckoned the ten

35:03

people jumped him, every time he's

35:05

added two more people jumping him

35:07

as if his neo in the

35:09

matrix. The interesting thing is there

35:11

were some steep stairs going down

35:13

that from the entrance and a

35:15

week after we got home someone

35:17

was pushed down those stairs by

35:19

a bouncer and ended up dying.

35:21

A reveler abroad just like that.

35:23

So just like Craig's it happens

35:25

far more often than you think

35:27

and it's really worrying as a

35:29

parent thinking when your child goes

35:31

out and just gets pissed for

35:33

a week. The locals out there,

35:35

they don't give a shit because

35:37

it could all get covered up

35:40

in theory. Yeah, and the tourism

35:42

is a big thing, isn't it?

35:44

For that place, that resort, tourism

35:46

is a big thing. They don't

35:48

want to be saying, have posters,

35:50

saying murder everywhere. We want witnesses

35:52

when they're trying to get people

35:54

into the bars. But thank goodness

35:56

you've got teams like David Swindles

35:58

who are doing some amazing work.

36:00

There's lots of people who used

36:02

to be in law enforcement, you

36:04

know, I frankly, we should just

36:06

shut up a lot of the

36:08

time. There's some good ones, but

36:10

some awful respect of the community,

36:12

as we know. when he speaks

36:14

people listen and he's doing some

36:16

genuinely good work helping families so

36:19

it's got to be a good

36:21

thing but my concern is that

36:23

Craig's mum has now died I

36:25

just hope that there's some justice

36:27

before. Yeah, well the dad's still

36:29

alive. Yeah, fingers crossed. Yeah, what

36:31

have you got for a stroke?

36:33

So we're travelling to South Africa

36:35

for my international story. Well, fuck,

36:37

and it's a bit of a

36:39

running joke that my pronunciation is

36:41

shocking. As hard as I try,

36:43

I get some things wrong, so

36:45

apologies in advance. This is focusing

36:47

on a female police officer from

36:49

Botloqua Police Station in Limpo. So

36:51

this is Limpopo is the country's

36:53

northernmost province. She was arrested in

36:55

the late evening of February 13th,

36:58

so last Thursday, on the date

37:00

of recording. After shooting and killing,

37:02

her 25-year-old son, who was called

37:04

Sathagay Kutso Remembrance, apologies, and his

37:06

16-year-old girlfriend who is unnamed, I'm

37:08

assuming because of her age. So

37:10

one of the sergeants at the

37:12

South African police service, SAPPS. She

37:14

was a sergeant, beg your pardon,

37:16

reported to her station that approximately

37:18

10 to 10 in the evening,

37:20

saying she'd shot her son with

37:22

her police-issued firearm. So officers subsequently

37:24

arrived at the scene alongside paramedics

37:26

to find her son unresponsive with

37:28

gunshot wounds, and he was reportedly

37:30

holding a sharp object in his

37:32

hand. That's worth remembering. The teenage

37:34

girl who I said wasn't named.

37:36

sustained severe injuries, she was rushed

37:39

to a local hospital for urgent

37:41

medical attention, but she sadly succumbed

37:43

to her injuries on Valentine's Day,

37:45

Friday, just gone. In response to

37:47

this, the police opened two murder

37:49

cases. This led to the immediate

37:51

arrest of the officer who'd shot

37:53

her son and his girlfriend. A

37:55

limpopor police spokesperson said that further

37:57

investigations would be conducted to establish

37:59

the full circumstances surrounding the shooting.

38:01

It's been handed over to the

38:03

independent police investigative directorate, so mindful,

38:05

for further handling, and the suspect

38:07

is... expected to appear before the

38:09

Morbang Magistrates Court today, February 17th.

38:11

What's interesting about this is the

38:13

online commentators. And we know how

38:15

reliable they are, right? The online

38:18

commentators make notes regarding the suspect,

38:20

claiming to have killed the two

38:22

victims in self-defense. With some people

38:24

suspecting that the blade I mentioned

38:26

in her son's hand. may have

38:28

been planted there by his mom

38:30

to back up this claim of

38:32

self-defense. It's all very conspiracy theory

38:34

at this point. But what goes

38:36

directly against that is that both

38:38

her son and his girlfriend were,

38:40

according to reports, killed with headshots,

38:42

which doesn't really coincide with a

38:44

heat of the moment attack on

38:46

the back of a disagreement, which

38:48

is what said to have happened

38:50

here. Do you think the suspect

38:52

being a police officer? I don't

38:54

know what the stuff's like in

38:57

South Africa, obviously. Do you think

38:59

that could hinder the outcome of

39:01

a trial, potentially? Well, I've got

39:03

no idea. I don't follow South

39:05

Africa at all. Do you don't?

39:07

No, I don't follow a crime

39:09

for Africa at all. There have

39:11

been some horrible ones there over

39:13

the years? I don't know the

39:15

answer. What do you think? I

39:17

hope not. The only reason I

39:19

bring that question up is that

39:21

my dad was once on a

39:23

jury for... this kid who'd been,

39:25

he was in a supermarket, long

39:27

story short, the cop, a woman

39:29

cop had cut herself on one

39:31

of the stands, a display stand,

39:33

and she claimed in court that

39:36

it was this kid that had

39:38

done it to her. Now when

39:40

the defense prosecution, whichever side it

39:42

was, showed the videotape from CCTV,

39:44

they only showed the part where

39:46

her hand was cut. Whereas it

39:48

was subsequently requested to show the

39:50

whole footage, not the edited version,

39:52

and it showed that she'd done

39:54

it to herself. Was that shown

39:56

because she was a cop? I

39:58

don't know. But that's the only

40:00

reason why I bring it up.

40:02

I hope it doesn't affect the

40:04

trial. One thing I want to mention

40:06

is, I mean, to kill anyone is

40:09

horrendous. To kill your own child

40:11

is unfathomable. Even an adult

40:13

child. Come on, is she kid, man? But

40:15

I checked the homicide report from March

40:17

2024 to get a bit of

40:19

insight into this. It says, now

40:21

this doesn't really apply because this

40:23

is about victims of homicide under

40:26

the age of 16. It's a bit

40:28

of more of an anomaly to kill

40:30

an adult child so the date is

40:32

not available. But there were 44 victims

40:34

of homicide. In the year end in

40:36

March 2024, this is in England and

40:39

Wales, the official homicide report.

40:41

That's 26 boys, 18 girls. And

40:43

the most common suspect in 19 of

40:45

those cases, 43% was a parent

40:47

or stepparent. Well, we've had that

40:49

high profile case recently, haven't we

40:52

in the UK? I've forgotten his

40:54

name, but... when he said he

40:56

was messing about with his daughter

40:58

in the kitchen. Yes, another one,

41:00

yeah. Yeah, unbelievable. It's

41:02

strange, to be fair, if you're

41:04

ever in a hospital with your child,

41:07

I have been unfortunately when

41:09

she was very young, she had an

41:11

injury and they do it in a way

41:13

which is very clever. They'll say

41:16

they're going to weigh your child

41:18

and then they will basically take all

41:20

their clothes off. It's to check for

41:22

bruises and stuff, right? Right. But

41:25

you think, if it's a genuine accident,

41:27

you feel terrible because you think,

41:29

what are people going to think?

41:31

But in cases like that, how do

41:33

you even defend doing something like that?

41:35

It just baffles the mind. Do

41:37

you know, I've covered quite a few

41:39

cases on my podcast where the child

41:41

has killed the parents. That happens

41:43

as well, yeah? Interesting, is that

41:45

interesting dynamics. It's the problem,

41:48

isn't it? Some would argue that

41:50

when you live together in a family,

41:52

all close, all these dynamics. Tensions

41:54

rise, alcohol can sometimes be involved.

41:57

I suppose maybe we shouldn't be

41:59

surprised. It was like the

42:01

massive spark in domestic abuse cases

42:04

during lockdown. Yeah. Been locked up

42:06

together, unable to do anything. And

42:08

it led to such a spike

42:10

in domestic abuse, truly shocking. And

42:13

the fact that we had what,

42:15

three lockdowns I think in the

42:17

UK, in the same year? I

42:20

forgot. And we see domestic abuse

42:22

spark, don't mean, whenever like the

42:24

England football team plays. Mm-hmm. Now

42:26

you think, you know, in 2025

42:29

that... It's just, it's just, there's

42:31

nothing we can say, it's just

42:33

utterly, utterly shocking. It is, yeah.

42:36

So we now end with our

42:38

offbeat, quirky, more light-hearted, weird stories

42:40

here. I've got an absolute belter,

42:42

but I will let you go

42:45

first. We'll end on mine because

42:47

it's unbelievable. Assuming you've not got

42:49

the same frigid star. I say,

42:51

if you do say so yourself,

42:54

Stephen. Stephen. Stephen is Stephen. Good

42:56

God. I'll keep that in. Yeah,

42:58

to keep that one idea. All

43:01

right. So, well, talking of Valentine's.

43:03

So, when I was out of

43:05

dinner on Friday, my wife was

43:07

on these people. I'm not so

43:10

chatty to her. She started chatting

43:12

to this other couple. You know,

43:14

it is sometimes she's probably just

43:17

bored of my company, right? And

43:19

this woman told us, they were

43:21

Polish, they told us about this

43:23

Polish guy. A guy called Christian

43:26

Bala, or Bala. Do you know

43:28

this story? No. Okay. So, I'm

43:30

no her expert here. So go

43:33

easy on the questioning. But essentially

43:35

this Christian guy, he murdered a

43:37

small business owner, Darius Januski, I

43:39

think you pronounce it. It was

43:42

in 2000, and this person's dead

43:44

body was discovered floating in a

43:46

lake. Now for three years, the

43:49

local police couldn't solve the murder.

43:51

And so the detective found some

43:53

physical clues linking this murder to

43:55

our friend Bala. And this guy

43:58

Bala, he actually wrote a novel

44:00

in 2003 called Amok. which gave

44:02

away clues to the murder. He

44:05

actually used information that only the

44:07

murderer could have... known. And as

44:09

is often in the case, the

44:11

motive was jealousy as his wife

44:14

may have been seen the man

44:16

he killed. I mean, seriously, never

44:18

spy on someone that you suspect

44:21

are doing something and never listen

44:23

to people talking about you. It

44:25

never ends well. But that's an

44:27

aside. But this guy Bala was

44:30

since a prison for 25 years

44:32

for murder and get this. He's

44:34

apparently writing a second book and

44:37

police in Poland have found evidence.

44:39

that he planned to kill somebody

44:41

else to tie in his second

44:43

novel. Jesus. It's a genre I

44:46

guess isn't it? True life to

44:48

take true crime a step further?

44:50

I mean that is just that's

44:53

ridiculous. Crazy isn't it? That's left

44:55

me a bit speechless. Apparently in

44:57

Poland it's quite a well-known story

44:59

so do check it out look

45:02

at the details. Jesus. Yeah there

45:04

we go. I'll wait for you

45:06

to speak that. We're ending this

45:09

monthly crime roundup with a story

45:11

from Chile or Chile, however you

45:13

want to say it. If anyone

45:15

listening to this has thylacophobia, that's

45:18

a fear of large or deep

45:20

water. This story might be one

45:22

for you to skip. So thanks

45:25

for listening, Cheerio all that jazz.

45:27

For those of you who want

45:29

to keep listening. Twenty-four-year-old Adrian Simankas.

45:31

was recently kayaking off the coast

45:34

of Chile in the Strait of

45:36

Magayne? Magellen? I think it's Megayne

45:38

anyway. This strait with his dad,

45:41

an area of water. This was

45:43

on Saturday February 8th, 2025. So

45:45

the Strait of Magellen, sorry, is

45:47

a major tourist attraction in Patagonia,

45:50

about 1600 miles, 3,000 kilometers from

45:52

the capital Santiago. It's a navigable

45:54

sea route in southern Chile which

45:57

separates mainland South America to the

45:59

north and the Tierra del... That's

46:01

a mouthful and all, to the

46:03

south. It's a well-populated area from

46:06

a wildlife perspective. You've got colonies

46:08

of Magalanic penguins unique to the

46:10

area, schools of commissons and peels,

46:13

dolphins, and peels, dolphins, southern elephant

46:15

seals, South American sea lions, southern

46:17

fur seals, and pods of humpback

46:19

whales. Now the latter are especially

46:22

prevalent in Francisco... I could have

46:24

picked a easier fricking story than

46:26

this. Francisco, Koloan, Coastal, and marine

46:29

protected areas. There's also plenty for

46:31

the bird lovers listing to enjoy.

46:33

You've got black-browed albatross, Antarctic giant

46:35

petrels, and Andean condion condors. But

46:38

it's the humpback whales we're truly

46:40

focusing on for this story. Now,

46:42

you, Adam, and anyone listening, can

46:45

go out there and watch this,

46:47

right? This is an unbelievable video.

46:49

It's only a few seconds long.

46:51

It's on Sky News. It's on

46:54

all the news websites, right? And

46:56

it wouldn't be out of place

46:58

as a deleted scene in Jaws.

47:01

Adrian can be seen in this

47:03

video, which his dad filmed from

47:05

a nearby kayak, so Adrian's in

47:07

his kayak. He gets swallowed whole

47:10

by a humpback whale. You see

47:12

it come up. It was probably,

47:14

you know how they opened the

47:16

gobs and just take a load

47:19

of krill in? It comes to

47:21

the surface, closes its mouth around

47:23

Adrian and his kayak, but then

47:26

a few seconds later he pops

47:28

up out of the water about

47:30

20 feet away, so it spits

47:32

him out. The whales don't eat

47:35

humans, they don't have the esophagus

47:37

size for it. It just got

47:39

caught up in the whale going

47:42

for krill is the official theory,

47:44

but yeah, this footage was caught

47:46

by his dad. Again it's on

47:48

Sky News and a bunch of

47:51

CNN if you're abroad. and he

47:53

thankfully lived to tell that it's

47:55

honestly, it's an unbelievable video. His

47:58

dad repeatedly was telling... to keep

48:00

calm. Wise words from daddy

48:02

there. Adrian was more concerned

48:04

about perishing in the freezing

48:06

waters. So the average temperature

48:09

is 9.7 Celsius, about 49

48:11

Fahrenheit in the water there

48:13

for reference. Adrian later said,

48:15

when I came up and started floating,

48:17

I was scared that something

48:20

might happen to my father too. What

48:22

a good son, bless him. Though he

48:24

wouldn't reach the shore in

48:26

time or that I would get hypothermia.

48:28

Both men managed to get to shore safely

48:30

but I can't, can you imagine, I should have

48:32

been swallowed up by a whale and then

48:35

three seconds later you'd think, did that just

48:37

happen? It's like biblical isn't it? Now

48:39

if I don't you mention that area, so

48:41

my bucket list is very very short but

48:44

one of them is to go to that

48:46

part of the world in particular to Tierra

48:48

del Fiego, that's Cape Horn and there's a

48:50

chapel on Cape Horn and there's a chapel

48:52

on Cape Horn and there's a chapel on

48:54

Cape Horn. and look out over Cape

48:57

Horn and the southern ocean and see

48:59

some of that amazing wildlife like you

49:01

say like humpback whales but when I

49:03

go one day do you know I won't

49:05

be kayaking it made me wonder if

49:07

you have any any scary ocean stories

49:09

because I've got one or two I

49:11

avoid the sea at all times by

49:13

the way I don't have philosophobia but

49:16

I just don't enjoy swimming or the

49:18

sea or anything like that don't you

49:20

got any scary ocean stories Well, I'm

49:22

a keen sailor as you know

49:24

and I've got myself into some

49:26

scrapes that have been a little

49:28

bit worrying from time to time

49:30

But nothing particularly scary. How about you?

49:32

What's yours? So we were in me, my

49:35

mom and my dad were in Florida in

49:37

probably I don't know 2001 So

49:39

I'll have been about 12 or something

49:41

and we spent two weeks out there the

49:43

first week were at Orlando theme parks

49:45

Disney and all that the second

49:47

week we had a recovery week

49:49

in a more rural part of

49:51

Orlando So we were literally on a

49:53

hotel that had, it was on the

49:55

beach, so you walk past the pool,

49:58

you're on the beach, there's a sea. my

50:00

dad was playing shuffleboard or something. My

50:02

mum was out in the sea and

50:04

she comes back about 20 minutes later

50:07

saying that she nearly drowned apparently because

50:09

she went under and the waves kept

50:11

coming in and she was struggling to

50:14

get up for breath. It's a story

50:16

we always laugh at because we didn't

50:18

see it and every time she tells

50:20

it she makes it more dramatic. But

50:23

the funny part was it is either

50:25

later that evening or the day after.

50:27

She was getting ready to go out,

50:29

or y'all got for a meal on

50:32

the night. She leaned over and all

50:34

this water just came out of her

50:36

nose, like a bucket load of water,

50:39

just suddenly Christ knows where it was,

50:41

where it had been stored. But yeah,

50:43

that's always a funny story of close

50:45

to death for my mother. Oh yeah,

50:48

I bet your mom loves that over

50:50

Christmas lunch shirt. This bring me stuff

50:52

again, shall be bringing it. situation but

50:55

how she tells it. It's like my

50:57

friend who every time he speaks about

50:59

the attacking Zante he adds two more

51:01

attackers to the story it's one of

51:04

those it gets more extreme every time

51:06

you hear from it but that was

51:08

a funny one. Great story well it's

51:10

been a been a fun episode hasn't

51:13

it? It has it's been good I

51:15

hope you all enjoyed that this has

51:17

been the February 2025 edition of the

51:20

crime roundup join us next month for

51:22

March because that's what comes after February

51:24

believe it or not. Thank you for

51:26

tuning in. If you want to listen

51:29

to Adam's brilliant podcast, it's UK True

51:31

Crime. You can find it everywhere. We

51:33

both have patrons, I'm Stuart Blues or

51:36

British Murders, and if you have news,

51:38

you want us to cover? If you

51:40

want to bring something up for us

51:42

to talk about, you can email either

51:45

of us or you can reach out

51:47

on social media. And thanks for listening

51:49

basically. Any final words, Adam? Yeah, thanks

51:51

Stephen, I've enjoyed it. Cheeriac, bye-bye.