0:15

Pushkin Today,

0:20

we're welcoming to the show, Connor Oberst

0:23

out of my interview with Connor, I spent two weeks catching

0:25

up on albums of his that are perennial favorites,

0:27

or albums that I missed, or albums

0:29

and EPs I just haven't heard in a long time, And

0:32

in that two weeks I remember just how wonderful

0:34

his catalog of music is. Often

0:37

his music gets pegged as being maybe only

0:39

sad, But Connor's music, whether it's

0:41

with Bright Eyes, Deciparcidos, the

0:43

Mystic Valley Band, Monsters of Folk,

0:46

Commander Venus, his solo works,

0:48

or his stuff with Phoebe Bridges, is not

0:50

one dimensional. It's dynamic. It's

0:53

deeply smart, captivating,

0:55

funny, sometimes biting, and because

0:58

it's a lovely blend of all these things, along

1:00

with yes, sometimes melancholy, it's

1:02

above all joyful. His

1:05

catalog is also deceptively large,

1:08

especially when considering it age, which

1:10

overwhelmed me a bit going into this conversation. Where

1:12

do you start with someone who's been making music and writing songs

1:14

at a high level since around nineteen ninety five?

1:18

And I guess the answer is you start at the beginning, which

1:20

is what we did. But I hope longtime

1:22

fans, new fans, and even people who've never

1:24

given his music a shot get a lot out of this episode.

1:27

Connor's a real force in music, and at the

1:29

risk of sounding trite all the way

1:31

from his earliest records through his latest five

1:34

dices all threes, he's done it his way,

1:36

on his terms, and there's a lot to respect

1:38

in that. This

1:42

is Broken Record liner notes for the

1:44

digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's

1:51

my conversation with Connor Oberst and

1:53

to see the full video version of this episode, visit

1:55

YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast

1:58

or click the link in the episode description.

2:02

You spend more time in la these days

2:04

or more in Omaha?

2:06

Or it's probably half and half

2:08

because we have the studio

2:10

here. I can't see you, but up through my

2:13

backyard there's

2:14

a fence and

2:18

Michael Mogus, who's in Bright

2:20

Eyes with me, has his house and his studio

2:22

there.

2:23

So and how long have you guys had that

2:25

arrangement?

2:27

Oh? I guess it was like two thousand and six.

2:30

Okay, yeah, almost

2:32

twenty years.

2:33

What was the first stuff he recorded there? Do you remember?

2:37

Yeah? I think we

2:39

recorded the tail end

2:41

of Casadega,

2:43

which was the Bright Eyes recorded. Yeah.

2:46

I came out, I guess the next year two thousand

2:48

seven.

2:49

Yeah, that's one of my favorite

2:52

brid Eyes records. Yeah, I did see

2:54

you on that tour though. Actually, now that I know that I think

2:56

about it.

2:57

I was the one we all had like the

2:59

white seats and stuff, and my

3:01

friend was doing the old like hippie

3:03

projection when we put the little colored

3:06

water and big so yeah,

3:10

yes, our pseudo psychedelic

3:12

stuff kind of.

3:14

Felt like, yeah, these guys were up there kind of like you

3:16

know, the Flying Burrito Brothers or something.

3:19

I love that.

3:21

You know, I been a fan

3:23

of your output since I

3:25

don't know, around two thousand and two,

3:27

one or two or you know, things come out

3:29

piecemeal and you just kind of listen over time.

3:32

But you know, it was interesting to

3:34

be able to listen to like kind of like the whole catalog

3:37

in one and like you know, kind of over the course

3:39

of like a week and a half and kind

3:42

of like the enormity of it was like

3:44

it slipped by me until until like we

3:46

were about to have this conversation and I was like, you

3:49

know, like.

3:49

Jesus, you know, I'm I'm impressed

3:51

you got through all.

3:54

I was like, how old is this guy? Again? Like how

3:56

does this like? You know, it's almost like a Neil Young

3:58

left ful of output, Like we're just

4:00

like and it just it escaped

4:03

me. How do you How do you hold

4:05

that all in your your head these days?

4:08

I mean, it's very much. I

4:10

wouldn't say it's a blur because I have

4:13

a lot of specific memories over

4:15

the years. But you know,

4:17

I started touring

4:20

and presenting my music

4:22

at like age I guess

4:24

like thirteen or

4:26

fourteen. Obviously, like in

4:29

high school, I kind

4:31

of just toured in the summer and like when I

4:33

could, and then I

4:35

went to college for like a year, and

4:37

so I guess, like around fevers and

4:40

mirrors, I think I was like nineteen,

4:43

and that's when I got kind of quit

4:46

school and music

4:48

became my full time job

4:51

and just never

4:54

stopped. So it's I

4:56

feel lucky to like have

4:58

the longevity. I

5:01

mean, I've had older

5:03

musicians sort of you

5:06

know, just tell me that there's

5:08

always like peaks and valleys when it comes

5:10

to like career things

5:12

and creativity and really

5:16

the ultimate triumph.

5:18

It's just just still you're.

5:21

Doing it after you know, I'm forty

5:23

four now and played

5:26

too many shows to even count

5:28

and made so many records

5:31

of various people. So

5:34

yeah, it's really it's been my entire

5:36

life. So it's hard to it's

5:38

hard to like know what life

5:41

would be like without music,

5:44

you know, science Like people have like ask me

5:46

that in the interviews, like if you can play music, what

5:48

would you do, And it's like I have like

5:50

no idea, I have no like

5:53

skills.

5:53

So after getting

5:56

to the first couple of Bright Eyes Records,

5:58

I remember somehow, I don't remember how

6:00

someone earned it for me or I founded a record

6:02

shop like the Command of Venus, but

6:05

the Commander Venus, I didn't know you were fifteen,

6:07

sixteen seventeen in that grip,

6:10

Yeah, like that's crazy.

6:12

Yeah, we made the first

6:14

record.

6:14

There's like two Commandervenius records,

6:17

and the first one, yeah,

6:19

I made it like when I was like fourteen,

6:21

and Tim Cashers, like the main

6:23

guy in Cursive, was in that band at

6:26

first, and it was after

6:30

Valentine's Day. We went to like

6:33

Target or whatever and bought all these heart

6:35

shaped boxes and then we wrote

6:38

like love letters to the record

6:40

labels we liked.

6:41

So it was like You're Murdered or

6:44

My Sweet Mr My Sweet Manator or

6:46

whatever, slipop, whatever we liked

6:48

at the time, and

6:51

we sent it out. And there was a

6:53

record label long gone but.

6:55

Called Grass Records from New York that

6:57

put out like a lot of great records, Brainiac

7:00

and the Wrens and yeah,

7:03

just a lot of They put out the spam

7:05

from Omaha called mouse Chaps. That's why they were

7:07

kind of like on our radar. But this

7:10

woman, Camille, who was kind

7:12

of the an r that signed bands. I

7:14

remember she called my parents'

7:18

house and it was

7:20

like a landline and my

7:22

brother was like, Connor, you got a call.

7:24

And I'm like, he's

7:27

like, this is live on Grass. I'm like, oh

7:29

my god, they like listen to this.

7:32

And she's talking to me and

7:34

I tell her that I'm like a

7:37

fourteen year old boy, and

7:39

she just like screams because

7:42

she had thought that I was like a

7:44

twenty year old like female.

7:47

That's hilarious.

7:48

My voice hadn't changed.

7:52

Me.

7:53

Yeah, and that wind ends

7:55

up being like wind up right. At a certain

7:57

point, which was was kind of blooming mine.

8:00

I was looking at their catalog and it was like the

8:02

same year they put out Your guy's second

8:04

album was like there's a Teddy Pendergrass record,

8:07

a Doctor John record, a

8:10

record from the Wrens, like you mentioned

8:12

their own grass, and then and then a Creed Like Creed's

8:14

first record came out like a month after your guys second

8:17

record.

8:17

It's like, yeah, those

8:20

like this guy, Alan Meltzer, who was just

8:22

a really rich guy, bought

8:25

the label, bought Grass and then like basically

8:28

like got rid of most of the bands and

8:31

and then obviously took it in a total different

8:33

direction. But he was always very sweet

8:35

to me. He's passed away now, but I

8:38

remember him showing me Creed. And

8:40

his wife was very eccentric as well,

8:43

and they're just super

8:45

New York. He was like very overweight,

8:48

stout man, and then his wife was like

8:50

a you know model

8:52

from the seventies that was still like antarexic.

8:55

They were just very crazy to look at,

8:58

but they would like fly me out. They flew me and

9:00

my girlfriend out there to New York for

9:02

like my eighteenth birthday. Anyway, they

9:04

were sweet, but I remember them showing me Creed before

9:06

it even came out, and I was like, I

9:08

really liked them, and I was like, you guys,

9:12

sounds like a really bad pearl

9:15

jam and I don't

9:17

I don't think it's not, you know, And

9:19

like the lady was like Diane

9:22

and she was like, you know, he's like Jim Morrison.

9:24

You know, he's like new Jim Morrison.

9:28

I was the guys. And

9:30

then sure enough they put it out and it's like the

9:32

biggest thing in the world. So another reason not

9:34

to ever you know, trust my rush.

9:39

Maybe maybe not your commercial judgment, but but

9:41

your ears were kind of spot on and they were kind of like

9:44

exactly like a bad birl jam. But

9:47

funny to imagine I bet yeah, probably Scott

9:49

Staff was probably telling her the news.

9:53

Yeah, I imagine.

9:55

You know, yeah, I remember

9:57

like on that trip, you

10:00

know, just like I

10:02

mean, I've been to New York, but it was still like you

10:05

know, my aging birthdayn with my girlfriend.

10:08

They were like they would like drive around like limousines

10:10

like smoking weed and stuff, and like,

10:13

I don't know, it was very it was a

10:15

surreal little period

10:18

of time there.

10:19

Where was your head at I mean, I guess maybe even specifically

10:22

on that trip, like eighteen flown to New

10:24

York on a rep you know,

10:26

on a label that could actually fly

10:28

in New York and driving around in a limit. I

10:30

mean, like, what were your thoughts at that time?

10:33

I mean.

10:35

We, like my group of friends

10:37

and all the bands like that

10:40

were associated with Saddle Creek.

10:42

It was like all this was kind of happening at once,

10:44

Like we had started Saddle Creek and

10:47

like we had the first record

10:49

came out on that and we

10:51

were all trying to you

10:53

know, support each other and had this like little

10:56

scene. But then we also realized

10:58

like, oh we we maybe

11:00

we should get on real labels, was like the thinking.

11:03

So some of the bands started

11:05

signing to other labels, and then eventually

11:07

we kind of like sort

11:09

of, I guess shortly after that, came back

11:12

together and decided just to like really

11:14

put out our own records. Like I'm

11:17

mostly I'm talking about right Eyes,

11:19

Cursive with Faint, they

11:22

were kind of we were that was kind of the big three

11:24

bands, and and then

11:26

yeah, it just got weird, like we

11:29

just we you know, we grew

11:31

up. Like there was a record store here called the Antiquarium,

11:33

and it was like like right out of the

11:36

movies, like you know, the old guys smoking

11:38

cigarettes behind the desk, like making

11:40

fun of what you're trying to buy. You know,

11:43

it's so like militant like

11:45

punk rock, indie rock, and

11:47

so you know, we love Discord and we

11:49

were like trying to like fight the power and stuff

11:51

and get to do it on our own.

11:54

So I actually all that stuff

11:56

with like Grass and wind Up.

11:57

I was kind of like it's like I was almost

11:59

like I was enjoying

12:02

it in the sense of like observing this is crazy,

12:04

but I was, you know, a

12:07

little like too cool for cool, you

12:09

know, like and that was our vibe.

12:12

Like all of our friends.

12:13

We were like, I don't know, we just

12:15

thought we were like such bad asss and we're

12:18

like change in the world, like

12:20

make you know, like little little

12:23

engine that could from Nebraska and all

12:25

that stuff.

12:26

So I mean, you kind of not wrong thom. You

12:28

guys did have a pretty strong scene going.

12:30

I mean think about those three, I mean the Fing

12:33

and Cursive and

12:35

Bright Eyes, and you know it's like that's a pretty

12:38

that's a pretty strong core you know as

12:41

a ray, and you can just kind of on and on. You're like, wow,

12:43

it's like a whole yeah.

12:45

Yeah. And like the you know, the bands

12:48

didn't really sound like each other, which I

12:50

think is interesting. Was a lot of like scenes,

12:54

you know, from certain areas like North Carolina

12:56

or Washington, DC. You know, there's

12:58

like a vibe they like hold music

13:01

together. But I felt like what

13:03

held us together was just that we were all like friends,

13:06

and we all were like we

13:08

all realized at an early age, like you

13:11

know, the whatever DIY

13:13

stuff was like that wasn't really

13:16

a choice. We you know,

13:18

we knew that no one was gonna like come

13:21

find us, you know, so we

13:23

like gotten bands and dull everywhere

13:25

and played you know, living rooms

13:28

and basements and all this like

13:30

back when like you know, south By still

13:33

mattered and like, uh,

13:35

what was the one the college music the

13:37

CNJ Festival in New York all

13:39

that stuff, Like, I mean it was we're

13:41

talking the nineties here, yeah,

13:44

long ago.

13:45

How were you aware of all, like the sort of industry. Was

13:47

it just through reading magazines or like how

13:50

did you know where to go to kind of be seen?

13:53

I guess like we

13:57

were big fans of music, so it

13:59

was always kind of like those

14:01

labels I was mentioning before, you.

14:04

Know, we listened to all those records, so I was

14:06

like, oh, I don't know, like

14:09

Spoon's playing this thing, like it must

14:11

be cool we got to try to play

14:13

that or you know, like so it was mostly

14:16

just like kind of network. And then once we

14:18

started traveling, like you meet

14:20

just a lot of musicians in different cities

14:23

and so, I mean for a long time we

14:25

kind of booked our own things,

14:28

and it was like easier back

14:31

then. And even though it seems like it'll be easier now

14:33

with the Internet, it was actually I think easier

14:35

for us because there

14:37

wasn't as much things happening,

14:39

or at least you didn't know about it, and you

14:42

know, you could like if

14:44

there was like a cool like you

14:46

know, punk rock venue in

14:48

some city, you could like send

14:52

a cassette tape or send a CD and

14:54

like someone would actually

14:56

like listen to it and call you back and

14:58

be you know, a lot of word of

15:00

mouth basically. And then eventually

15:03

we got you know, real booking

15:05

agents, and then that kind of changed

15:08

everything because then you're playing clubs

15:10

and you have guarantees and you're

15:12

on you know, real tour.

15:15

So yeah, we were

15:17

talking about like the mense amount of kind of stuff

15:19

you've done over the years. In hindsight, do you

15:21

think having Saddle Creek as kind of like a home

15:23

base this kind of independent thing that you

15:25

know, you guys sort of all created.

15:28

Was that to your benefit over the years,

15:31

like being able to work with independently

15:33

as long as you did.

15:35

Yeah, I mean I think that

15:37

that kind of those

15:41

kind of golden years. I would say, between

15:43

like yeah, you know, nineteen

15:46

ninety nine up through

15:48

probably like Sadega

15:51

and stuff, it was like everyone was unified

15:53

and it really felt like a

15:55

collective and then, like

15:58

anything money and

16:01

personality, the label kind of ended

16:03

up belonging to like this guy Rob

16:06

Nansel who was in He was actually in

16:08

Communityvens, but he was

16:10

kind of the one that was like organized in business

16:13

minded and the rest

16:15

of us were just more into making

16:17

the music. So at a certain

16:19

point it started to feel like

16:23

didn't belong to all of us anymore. And I think that's

16:25

when things started to fray. Like

16:27

I made my first solo record

16:30

like on Merge because I was kind of like, I

16:33

don't know, I just didn't feel like connected

16:35

to it, and then been

16:38

on a lot of other labels since

16:40

with different projects, and you

16:43

know, I mean I fondly looked back

16:45

at those times, but I mean, who's who's

16:47

to say, but I think that we missed out on

16:49

some opportunities again

16:52

because we were so like militantly

16:55

independent, like I remember

16:57

the past of like tons

16:59

of money, and they were like

17:01

primed to be because they were a little ahead

17:04

of the dancing chronic

17:06

dance like before a killer

17:09

and floor like, oh, it's like

17:11

a lot of that stuff. It got really huge

17:13

and and they like said

17:15

no that these major labels to stay on the our

17:18

label, and same with

17:20

me, and same with same

17:22

with Cursive to certain degrees. So

17:25

maybe we made a mistake. Maybe we should have like

17:28

struck while the iron was hot. You

17:30

know, that's all hindsight

17:32

now.

17:33

I remember talking to Rick Rubin one time and

17:36

like basically talking. We were talking about the Faint and how much

17:38

we love the Faint, and he was like, I tried to sign the

17:40

Faint. Yea. I was kind of I remember it, just being

17:42

kind of shocked by that, you know, because I do, like remember,

17:45

I mean, listening to them when they're out. It was like I

17:47

didn't assume anyone I

17:49

was listening to was on any major labels radar

17:52

or I mean, I guess it wasn't like a major major, but you

17:54

had like major distribution, et cetera. You know, So

17:57

It's just kind of wild to hear that. Even at that time I

17:59

was you know, it was new and everyone was listening

18:02

to it in the underground records. It was like, oh

18:04

shit, this was on the radar of like other

18:07

other people were trying to swoop in, you

18:09

know. Yeah.

18:11

Yeah.

18:11

Rick's always been super cool,

18:13

so he like actually when I

18:16

was making we were making Castle Deega, I

18:18

was in La.

18:19

It's like before I lived there, but yeah,

18:22

he.

18:22

Like did the send me send a car down

18:24

to LA and I went up to Malau

18:27

House and like, you know, did

18:29

the whole thing, like playing him songs on acoustic

18:31

guitar. And obviously we didn't

18:33

end up working with him, but I

18:36

remember I was like, we had a lot of songs

18:38

recorded, and he actually helped pick the ones

18:40

that were gonna that we're gonna be on Castadaga. I

18:42

was like really yeah, I was like right,

18:44

like what you know, it's it's Rick Rubin. I was

18:46

like, what do you think the songs? So

18:49

he actually did like help pick

18:51

songs for that record, which is I hadn't thought

18:53

about that till now. But and then

18:55

he's always been really cool, Like when I

18:57

did some solo records, at

19:00

Shangri La and when Nah,

19:02

actually we made the Monsters at Shango Lad

19:04

before he owned it. But then I went

19:06

back solo record and he cut

19:09

me a good deal and it's very sweet.

19:12

Yeah, yeah, very nice about

19:14

that. Very nice about that. Was

19:17

that around because I remember going to see you

19:20

right after a Wide Awake Its Morning came

19:22

out and it was like the

19:24

vibe was you know, going to see Bright Eyes before

19:26

that was like is everyone was like my age

19:28

at the time or maybe a little older, and

19:31

then going there it was like there was like sixty year old

19:33

dudes and I was like, what the fuck is this?

19:35

You know, so I have to

19:37

imagine it is maybe and you were like on the cover Rolling Stone,

19:39

I think if I remember correctly.

19:41

Like it was, Yeah,

19:43

that whole time with

19:46

that record was you know that was obviously

19:48

like the kind of commercial peak

19:51

too.

19:52

I guess my.

19:53

Music in general. I learned a lot

19:55

about kind of

19:57

the way the real industry

20:00

worked. And yeah, we were every

20:02

label was trying to sign us,

20:04

and yeah, it was like

20:07

I remember the kind of fun

20:09

thing is we you know, we put out those two records

20:11

on the same day, so we went on the

20:13

Wide Away tour first playing all the songs

20:16

and it was like, you know, it felt

20:18

like the Beatles or something, and we'd walk out on stage

20:21

and be like like flash flash

20:23

flash flash flash craziness,

20:26

and then like

20:28

like you know, six months later, we

20:30

come back to these towns and like I

20:33

remember, in between those tours, there wasn't a

20:35

lot of time, and the thing became our band

20:37

for the Digital Ash shit, and

20:40

I remember I took all the clothes I had and

20:42

threw them into a bucket, and the

20:45

pose one of the guys in the faint helped me, like die them

20:47

all black.

20:48

Okay, there you go, so

20:51

all my clothes are black.

20:53

And we went and.

20:54

Just basically played I mean,

20:56

we should have been smarter and like played songs from

20:58

Bulls, but we were like, this is this tour,

21:00

this is this tour. So we go back

21:02

and people don't know, they're expecting

21:04

us to play the Wide Awake stuff, and man

21:07

we had some upset yeah,

21:09

ticket ticket fires

21:13

like.

21:13

The Digital Ash. So yeah,

21:16

I don't know, was.

21:17

That the like did people feel more strongly about

21:19

IM Wide Awake than a Digital Ash?

21:21

Oh? Yeah, I mean as

21:23

far as the general I mean, that

21:25

was the only record I feel like when

21:29

we put well maybe lifted, but when we put

21:31

it out, it was like I

21:33

would consider like well received,

21:35

you know.

21:35

Like everywhere.

21:37

Yeah, it's like all of our pretty

21:39

much all my other records. It

21:42

seems like even

21:44

to my fans, like you

21:47

know, make these records and

21:50

it's like ten years later people

21:53

are like, oh my god, I love like Upside

21:56

Down Mountains, like one of my solo records. I'm

21:58

like, man, no one

22:01

seemed to care when it came out, and same

22:03

with like, I mean a lot of those records. That's

22:05

like this delayed effect to even

22:07

like the fan base.

22:09

I'll say, I'll be one hundred percent

22:11

honest, I did not ever

22:14

know about Upside Down Mountain or

22:16

listen to it until until

22:20

over the weekend. Yeah, I think

22:22

this might be my favorite album of your that's

22:25

fucking amazing.

22:26

Yeah, I mean, how did I miss its ten years

22:29

ago?

22:29

How the fuck did I miss it?

22:30

Yeah? And I signed it like none such,

22:33

which is like a big cool label

22:35

part of Warner Brothers. But yeah,

22:38

I mean that's that's

22:40

sort of where I learned, is like no

22:43

matter, I don't think

22:45

I and I don't say this as like you

22:47

know, boohoo. It's like I

22:50

don't think, uh,

22:52

my music was ever really meant

22:54

to be to

22:57

like achieve a certain like I've watched

22:59

my friend's bands, and like people I

23:01

know, people have toured with get

23:04

way bigger than me, or

23:06

my bands have like as far as like

23:08

where they play and how many records they

23:10

sell or whatever, like those sort of like

23:14

empirical data or

23:16

whatever. But I

23:19

don't know, I like that it's not it's

23:22

like exists in sort of its own thing.

23:24

And and I've also seen a lot of bands

23:26

like be It Real Hot and then

23:28

like Fizzle Away. You know, so

23:31

just the fact that I'm still

23:33

making records now and can go

23:36

you know, it's not always like tons

23:38

of people, but just you know, to be able

23:41

to play to like, you know, a couple

23:43

thousand people and like most cities

23:46

in like you know, in

23:49

our whole world.

23:49

But you know, amount I'm sure.

23:53

I mean, so that itself, I guess is like

23:55

a achievement.

23:56

You know, So that's.

23:58

Well yeah, I mean I don't know, it seemed kind

24:00

of sad if you only had like a few records

24:02

and then kind of like everything else, like the quality

24:04

dropped off. And and but I mean it's

24:07

like like I said, like listening to was a like

24:09

mind fuck, like Jesus Christ, Like you know, it

24:11

really is like listening to like Neil's Young's catalog

24:14

or something like there's shit that's like wildly

24:16

different, but it's all kind of a certain

24:19

quality. None of it's like there's like a baseline

24:21

quality for everything. Nothing's like trash,

24:24

you know, and then there's some stuff that's just like like upside

24:26

down Mountain. It was just like a complete surprise,

24:29

like I just didn't know about it, and I

24:31

didn't know. I don't know what single thing about Jonathan

24:33

Wilson, but I was just kind of checking him out this week and

24:36

because I was just like that record blew me away.

24:39

Yeah, thank you very much.

24:41

That's uh Yeah, he's a

24:44

he's a magical man.

24:46

He spent the last few years playing

24:48

in Roger Waters band

24:51

and like the Big Crazy World

24:53

Tour and he uh he

24:56

did uh David Gilmore's

24:58

like arts like sang the fucking

25:01

like teenage dream come true.

25:04

For Wilson.

25:04

He was like in Pink Floyd for like

25:07

that's insane. Yeah, did you check

25:10

the show out or you know, I'm

25:12

I regretted to this day he like I

25:15

have like a standing like come to

25:17

any show, but like I just I

25:19

was never in like the right city when it was

25:21

happening. I should have just flown to do it

25:24

because everyone that saw I was like, oh, I know,

25:26

it's like the craziest thing.

25:29

But I kind of blew it. But yeah,

25:32

I've heard a lot about stories

25:35

about it.

25:36

So yeah, I just saw David

25:38

Gilmour for the first time a week ago, and

25:40

uh, that kind of that really blew me away. I wasn't

25:43

expecting it to be that that increase.

25:45

It was really good. It was like, really really

25:47

good. Yeah, that's all.

25:50

It's a strange thing that they both

25:53

tour and kind of play the same songs.

25:55

But yeah, and I think they're I

25:57

think they hate each other. I mean I have no, I don't.

25:59

It's not like I take a side. I just you know, like he was

26:01

around and actually had time, so I was like, let me go to see

26:03

what, you know, what it's like, and it was.

26:05

It was incredible. But yeah, now I want to see Roger Waters

26:08

and see without you know, because I know, I don't even know if he's going

26:10

to do that anymore. But he was like frying

26:12

the pig out over the crack. The whole

26:14

thing was I want to say that, you know.

26:16

Yeah, they they're describing

26:18

like the

26:20

the well visual part and

26:24

like even like this, like the PA.

26:27

It was like something crazy like

26:29

like.

26:29

The you know, biggest

26:31

like most like high

26:33

fi like PA like ever like

26:36

used kind of thing like he's like

26:38

you know, he's he's always been like I

26:41

think, into like technology

26:43

and like the next thing.

26:45

So I think it. Yeah,

26:49

now I'm just getting more sad that I didn't

26:51

go.

26:51

But man, sorry, would

26:53

you would you do another record with him?

26:56

Oh? For sure.

26:56

Yeah. He we

26:59

used to actually be roommates in

27:01

l A. And then he

27:04

he moved to Topanga and

27:07

built like a cool studio you out there,

27:09

So I want to add, great

27:12

to go make a record there

27:14

some time.

27:15

That's that's cool. The

27:18

new record's really cool too. I particularly

27:21

love fell in love with the second half of it. I kind

27:23

of got stuck on a loop with the first half of it when

27:25

it first came out. Then I graduated finally to

27:27

the second half and I think, like it just is

27:30

like it's it's really

27:32

good man. Thank you listening

27:34

back. You've collaborated with a lot of people. I

27:37

mean, you have Alex Orange, drink who you're co

27:39

writing a lot of record with. You haven't really done

27:41

a full album

27:43

where you're co writing with someone on a Bride Eyes record

27:45

before.

27:46

Right, Yeah, not on a not

27:50

on a Bride Eye record.

27:51

I mean other than sometimes network

27:54

musical stuff that Nate and and

27:57

Mogus do. But yeah,

28:00

I mean I've been in obviously like just

28:03

Parcitos and like the

28:06

Better Oblivion Community Center with

28:08

TV and Monsters of Folks,

28:10

So I've

28:12

been in collaborations. But yeah,

28:15

Bright Eyes for a long time

28:17

was just I just would bring the songs

28:19

completed and then we'd arrange them

28:22

together. And yeah,

28:24

this one just it was kind of just happenstance,

28:27

like Alex was staying with me in

28:29

LA and just I

28:32

don't know, I was kind of in a weird

28:34

spot and wasn't really writing, and he got

28:37

the ball rolling and so

28:39

yeah, he's a big reason why the

28:42

record got made.

28:43

You know, So were you even thinking

28:45

about writing or were you like trying to write and couldn't

28:47

and then that's how it.

28:48

I wasn't really thinking about it.

28:50

I was just like, I don't know,

28:52

I go as sometimes I go through well

28:55

a lot of you know, mental

28:59

whatever ups and downs, and you

29:02

know, I definitely suffered from

29:05

like what's the point

29:08

of all this, like not just

29:10

music, like of everything, you know, so

29:13

of all life. Yeah, I mean

29:15

basically. But I mean I've always

29:17

been like that, so it's not really

29:20

anything new. But sometimes

29:23

yeah, I get a little paralyzed and

29:26

you gotta It's why it's good

29:28

to have friends to shake you out of it

29:30

and you know, get back

29:32

at it.

29:33

Yeah. Yeah. Does it still

29:35

take you by surprise, like when when that happens

29:38

like that feeling?

29:40

Yeah, yeah, I mean.

29:43

I think music is a to

29:45

me. It's still like a mystery because

29:48

it's like if I could sit

29:50

down and write a great song

29:52

that I was proud of, like every day,

29:55

I'd be doing it, you know, but I

29:57

just it's not it doesn't work that

29:59

way. It's kind of you got to like wait for

30:02

like the tide to come in and

30:05

it's all like waves and you

30:08

know of it. I

30:11

find that like I don't really write if

30:13

I'm having like a sort of heightened

30:17

emotional or like mental

30:19

experience good or bad,

30:22

I don't really I don't feel like

30:24

writing. It's more like

30:27

in like the ordinary times when I

30:29

have the ability to like look back

30:31

at things and see it from

30:34

a more like objective state

30:37

of mind. I like, I like to write lyrics

30:39

from that place because

30:43

well, I just think they're better. I

30:45

mean I have written songs

30:48

like when in the height of whatever,

30:52

being in despair or like being

30:54

in love or something, you know, but

30:56

I feel like I always in the like worse

30:59

than the ones that are a little more like I

31:01

mean, not like clinical, but just like have

31:04

like a perspective that you

31:07

know, I don't know a

31:10

little after the fact.

31:11

Yeah, exactly are

31:13

there are there songs that have made records that

31:16

have been written at the highest size or

31:18

lowest lowser.

31:20

Sure, I'm trying to think, like, well,

31:23

I mean one kind of obvious

31:26

example is that when

31:29

the president talks to God, so like

31:31

I just wrote that A is like I was

31:33

pissed off and it was like a commercial

31:36

for like a way of thinking. It's not a good song

31:38

at all. But it was like I

31:41

was booked on Jay Leno

31:43

and I was like, I

31:45

want to do something.

31:47

I don't want to just like play first

31:50

Day of my Life, you know what I mean. I was like I

31:53

thought things mattered and

31:56

splaining like political world.

31:59

So yeah, I got my tour manager at the time,

32:01

Like I did the sound check for that just

32:04

like in my hoodie like normal like me.

32:07

And then in between me and that, in the shell,

32:10

I was like Bill, this guy Bill Sullivan

32:12

was my tour manager at the time. I was like, Bill,

32:14

Man, I don't know about this.

32:16

Can you give me like a Cowboys

32:19

sudent?

32:20

And He's like like if we were in

32:22

La so he like, you know, it's

32:24

easy to get order.

32:26

Yeah.

32:26

So I put on the Ryan

32:29

Stones and went out

32:31

there.

32:31

And my theory was like I'm

32:34

singing this song.

32:35

It's like anti Bush song, and

32:37

it'll be like some guy in

32:39

like the Midwest to the South, like kind

32:42

of half watching.

32:43

J Leno was like, you know

32:45

it real quiet and be like hey honey.

32:47

And like this Scott looks all right, turn this

32:49

up.

32:52

So I don't know.

32:55

What was that. Do you remember what the reception to

32:57

that was.

32:58

I mean it was it was

33:00

like, just like you expect

33:03

the people that were on

33:06

that side of the political divide,

33:09

it was great. And

33:13

everyone that wasn't, you know, just tried

33:16

their best to like make

33:18

fun of me and

33:21

all.

33:21

That stuff, you know, And

33:23

that was that.

33:24

I mean, that was right in the middle of kind of

33:26

like right away, so it

33:28

was pretty There

33:30

was a lot of whatever, I

33:32

guess.

33:34

People with opinions around

33:37

that time.

33:39

We'll be right back with more from Connor Oberst after

33:42

the break. We're

33:46

back with more from Connor Oberst. Do

33:49

you remember people saying

33:51

like the second coming of Bob Dylan?

33:57

Yes, and you know, obviously

34:01

we all know that that's like a ridiculous

34:04

thing to say about anyone, and then.

34:07

Said about a lot of people.

34:09

Actually, my booking agent, who's

34:11

been my booking agent for like twenty years,

34:13

he gave me this. It was like from the

34:15

New York Post and it was like around at

34:17

the same time. It's like a framed article

34:20

or you put it in a frame like an article. You

34:23

just said, picture of me, and it's a

34:25

Dylan wanna be So I got that like framed.

34:30

Well, there's a lot of those two, So

34:32

that's cool.

34:34

But yeah, that

34:37

guy's one of the crimes.

34:39

I don't think there's any worry about

34:41

that.

34:42

Yeah, I mean I remember even just thinking

34:44

like, wow, how do you you know, like

34:47

getting like the attention

34:50

the record was getting the

34:53

critical and sort of the polarizing

34:56

opinion of like when the president talks

34:58

to God, and then like yeah, just being called the

35:00

New Day, it was just like wow, that is fucking nuts.

35:03

Yeah it was. It was definitely like, you

35:06

know, a mind fuck for sure,

35:09

and just like I mean, I'm kind of lucky,

35:11

I feel like because what

35:14

happened to me was like every

35:17

stage, it was very gradual, from

35:19

like you know, command evenings,

35:21

high school all the way. Everything kind of kept building

35:24

and so it wasn't like it was an

35:27

overnight thing, because I think that's

35:29

what really makes people go crazy. Like

35:31

I just every record we put

35:33

out, like feld a little more and

35:35

the two of the shows got a little bigger.

35:38

So I guess by the time that was happening,

35:40

I was somewhat

35:42

prepared for it already, but

35:45

it was still still very

35:47

surreal. And you

35:50

know, also like that realization

35:53

at some point that it's like this is my

35:58

livelihood. And it's like also like you

36:00

know, just some degree, it's a business. Like

36:03

a lot of people, you know, count

36:05

on me to make

36:08

music because I

36:10

make money that they need, you

36:12

know. Yeah, yeah, and like it's

36:14

like a weird you know, you lose a lot of

36:16

innocence and so you it's

36:19

like you gotta I try

36:21

to like replenish that somehow.

36:24

How much do you.

36:24

Think about that, like the the I guess,

36:26

just the way that people might depend on you,

36:29

the way people would depend on a corporation

36:31

for you know, it's like not

36:33

not that depends on you in a bad way, but how often do you think

36:35

about that like that? There are people who.

36:38

I mean I think about it a lot.

36:40

You know, when we tour, it's

36:43

like there's obviously the

36:45

band that there's all kinds of people

36:47

that work on the tours and

36:50

the labels too. You know, I'm not

36:52

really like working for any kind of faceless thing

36:54

that I can be like, I don't care what happens

36:56

to them, you know, all

36:58

like intertwined with

37:00

my actual life. So

37:03

yeah, there's times when I

37:05

would maybe not do something, but I'd

37:09

like people need like

37:12

people need the money mogus. There's

37:14

always worried.

37:15

About mocuss

37:18

things going on though, right Yeah.

37:20

No, yeah, those guys,

37:23

those guys can I

37:25

mean, they don't need meat.

37:26

But uh.

37:28

Yeah, it's like my dad's

37:30

like been my business.

37:33

Like he used to work at Mutual Roma when

37:35

I was a kid, and then as soon

37:37

as I got enough stuff

37:39

going on, because he already

37:42

did.

37:42

My taxes just because he's like my dad, you

37:44

know.

37:45

But I like, I was, like, everyone

37:48

was like, you need a business manager, and like, you

37:50

know, there's people that'll do that for like five percent

37:53

of your income.

37:53

That's what most people do.

37:55

And I don't know if I want a stranger

37:57

like with all my bank passwords

38:00

and all my stuff, you know, like

38:02

my mortgages and shit.

38:04

You know.

38:05

So I was like, Dad,

38:08

you just help pay you salary,

38:11

you do this, and so quit

38:13

his job. I mean I was, I will

38:16

like yeah around then

38:18

two thousand and four or five, you know, and

38:20

he'd been going to that same

38:22

sad building for like

38:25

my whole life. So that's one

38:27

thing I'm like proud of that.

38:29

He just gotta like, you

38:32

know, deal with my stuff and like have

38:35

like more time to show.

38:37

And he likes being around, you know. He likes to

38:39

know, like what's up with the music

38:42

and you.

38:42

Know your parents music people.

38:45

My dad was a musician. Yeah, he like played

38:47

in like I mean, I

38:50

guess semi professionally because it was like his side

38:53

gig to his actual job.

38:55

But he would play.

38:56

Like in like wedding bands and you

38:58

know it's like cover bands. And

39:02

my mom was not a musician, but there was always music

39:04

at my house and my oldest brother played

39:06

in bands. So I was lucky

39:09

I didn't have to like go

39:12

you know search. You know, I didn't

39:14

like get my first guitar. There was just like guitars

39:16

in my house, like from when I

39:19

was born.

39:19

So it did everyone have

39:21

different music like your three brothers

39:23

and your mom and dad liked, everyone have their own kind

39:25

of thing that we're listening to.

39:27

Yeah, I mean my mom and dad, you

39:30

know, they were fully like right

39:32

there, like seventies

39:34

for you know, Jackson Brown, Joni Mitchell,

39:37

Neil Young all that type

39:40

of thing and Dire Straits

39:42

and Steely Dan. And

39:44

my oldest brother, Maddie was like into

39:48

like, you know, I guess eighties

39:51

alternative you know, Rim Smith

39:54

here whatever,

39:57

all that kind of like one hundred

39:59

and twenty minutes like and

40:02

that's so. But he was like six

40:04

years older than me. So

40:07

and then my brother justin real close

40:09

in age. We kind of

40:13

liked all that stuff. But then we sort of

40:15

found like like the

40:17

North Carolina stuff like Super

40:20

Chunk and like I

40:22

meant, the DC stuff for Gauzi,

40:24

and I don't even remember all

40:26

the all the things but that was like

40:29

the things we learned about at the record store,

40:31

and then also like older records

40:34

like getting into like Poundsman's Aunt

40:36

and John Prime and Lennon

40:38

Cohen, you know, things that were

40:42

of the time that my parents would listen to, but

40:44

they weren't really that hit,

40:47

you know, they kind of commercial

40:49

stuff.

40:50

But right I don't want to let I

40:52

want to go I want to talk about some songs to

40:54

the new record, but I want to go back to that feel like I let it drop.

40:56

Did you write when the President

40:58

talks to God? For like that

41:01

was specifically for that I guess.

41:03

It wasn't for Leno, but it

41:05

was after the election. Actually

41:08

went to Europe to

41:13

to do press for like the two records,

41:15

Wide Awake and Visual Ash, Like it

41:17

was like a press tour, but I was playing like little

41:20

acoustics shows like as part of the

41:22

press stuff. I remember

41:24

I wrote it like on a

41:27

faery because I wanted

41:29

to play something that like acknowledged

41:31

it because like I don't know if

41:33

you remember back then, but there

41:35

was a you know, I guess it's a

41:37

good lesson for right now. It definitely

41:40

it felt like the end of the world kind of like

41:42

I had gone on tour with like Springsteen

41:44

and like rim like vote for change.

41:47

You know, we're going hard for like Carrie

41:49

if you can imagine that. But

41:54

yeah, it was it

41:57

saw anyone wanted to talk about

42:00

was like how crazy it was that Bush

42:02

got reelected, you know and

42:04

now we've just now you look

42:06

back at Bush and you're like, oh, the good old days.

42:09

I know it it's so point man, it's like

42:11

what the fuck?

42:13

Yeah, And then like Leen, I

42:15

was like I'll be like right, you

42:18

know, close to when I got back.

42:21

It was.

42:21

It was definitely like the Wide Awake tour

42:24

because I.

42:26

Remember because they were like, really

42:29

want me to play First Day of My Life? And I was

42:31

like, no, I want to play this song

42:33

and they're like it's not on a record, and

42:36

and it kind of went.

42:37

Up the the.

42:39

Chain of command. But yeah,

42:42

so it went up and they cleared it. And I

42:44

remember that night

42:47

before the show or before the

42:49

paping, like Leno came

42:51

and knocked on the door and he was like very

42:53

nice. He's like, yeah, I heard the song

42:55

you gonna play, and he's like told me like a

42:57

story about like

43:00

him and stand up comedians, like touring

43:03

along the Canadian border during

43:05

like the Vietnam War and

43:07

like all this stuff.

43:09

Damn all right, Jay, I.

43:11

Always remember me. I always heard that from people

43:13

that played that show that it was like or that and

43:16

then we play like Letterman and I was always

43:18

like a Letterman fan, but I always heard from people that played the

43:20

shows it was like Lena was like the cool like drop

43:22

in and like talk to you and hang and like it

43:24

was the opposite, you know, with Letterman. I

43:27

guess you expect.

43:28

Yeah, I played Letterman like many

43:30

times and yeah, you

43:32

don't see him. He's only like says hi

43:35

to you on the stage. All

43:37

those guys are, you

43:39

know, different levels of like engagement,

43:42

I guess. I mean Conan is.

43:43

My favorite as like a person. He's just cool.

43:46

Yeah, Allen's really nice. I mean

43:48

they're all nice. Kimmel's n they're they're

43:51

they're all good, great political

43:53

answer.

43:56

Them all.

43:59

I like them if they like me, you know, yeah,

44:01

exactly.

44:02

What was it like hanging with Springsteen on that Vote

44:05

for Change tour?

44:06

It was amazing, same

44:09

kind of thing.

44:10

In the first show, we were

44:12

super nervous and

44:14

he came to our dressing room. It was just

44:16

like, so, we're happy to have you here and he

44:18

would go out like because it was us

44:22

Rim and then fucking

44:25

E Street bands like pretty

44:27

crazy and we were

44:29

was part of this vote for chain, so we were doing

44:31

shows as like a three band

44:33

thing, but they were like Pearl

44:36

Jam I think was like with like my morning

44:38

Jacket and like, I mean it was like a whole

44:40

wow, like all the all

44:43

the tours were like I mean,

44:45

it was really organizing. People put a lot

44:47

of like blood, sweat and tears, you

44:49

know, I mean like di rap war

44:51

and you know, it was like it really

44:53

did feel like we're making a stand.

44:56

But he came out and would introduce us,

44:58

like before we went on stage. He would be like go

45:02

because he usually doesn't only has a lot

45:04

of opening people. Normally he

45:06

just plays for like four hours, but like

45:09

special thing. So but

45:11

he's like talks to the audience. He's like

45:14

usually my friends from Nebraska and this

45:16

is a no brucing zone because

45:18

I guess they yelled Bruce and it sounds

45:20

like the billing that's like You're

45:23

like, Bruce, sounds like a right. Oh

45:27

he yeah. He was very

45:31

very gracious. That is like maybe

45:34

the most gracious man

45:36

in rock and roll.

45:37

You know, did you get to talk about like like

45:40

did he listen to your records?

45:41

And yeah, I mean I don't

45:43

know how much he's listened to our records, but I've

45:46

seen him, you know since

45:48

then, like came

45:50

through Omaha once and like

45:53

invited me down and like I sang a

45:56

song with him and like

45:59

in Omahan and.

46:00

Like what did you sing uh

46:03

on the road? And I was like, oh

46:05

my, he's like he's like, look he showed me

46:07

like they're.

46:08

Setlist, like like you

46:10

know, like I like I loved thunder Rug

46:12

and I'm like, wow, there's a lot of words.

46:15

You know. I think it wasn't my finest

46:18

hour. I'm like, I should have picked Dance in the Dark.

46:23

Did your dad see that?

46:25

Yeah?

46:25

I think so.

46:26

Actually that's a probably pretty proud dad

46:28

moment right there.

46:30

Yeah. And we also got to play a

46:33

couple of times the Bridge School

46:35

the thing that Neil Young ship.

46:37

That's right. I saw monsters at Bridge School.

46:39

Like yeah, and you know that

46:42

back then. I don't

46:44

even know if they do it anymore, but

46:48

since pass they don't. They

46:50

don't do that anymore, sadly, But

46:54

yeah, the thing is you would go on Friday

46:56

night. We did it once Fridays

46:58

and then did it Monster. But you go on

47:00

Friday night to the ranch and

47:03

everyone hangs out, and

47:05

then Saturday and Sunday you play the show as

47:07

a way to kind of like deflate egos

47:09

and everyone, you know, so you're also

47:11

just like hanging out in Neil Young's house, you

47:14

know, which is like pretty

47:16

cool. But one year, I think it was the Monsters

47:19

of Folk year, like my parents came

47:21

out and they gotta like go

47:23

to Neil's house and like kick it.

47:25

So that was I got some

47:27

some sun points for that one.

47:29

Oh yeah, yeah. It's just it's kind of wild

47:31

that, you know. I mean, Neil

47:34

Neil, Neil doesn't even tour that much anymore. Just

47:36

kind of it's like everyone's just kind of like.

47:39

No, I mean in the way it's just like seems

47:42

like every day something else.

47:44

Quincy Jones, I mean like just

47:47

like, I mean, I guess it makes sense all

47:49

that era is like getting

47:51

into like eighties and nineties and stuff.

47:53

I mean, the John Prian one got me pretty

47:56

hard because I've done a bunch of

47:58

shows with Tan and he's like coolest

48:01

guy. Wow, Like yeah,

48:04

it's like the whole pandemic there was there

48:06

were everyone's drop on my fly.

48:09

How did you survive the pandemic?

48:12

I was, well, took

48:16

it very seriously.

48:17

I didn't at the time. I was like living

48:19

with my girlfriend in LA and we

48:22

just we're like hold

48:24

up at the house, you know, like everyone ordering

48:28

ordering food and you could go

48:30

like drive like

48:33

right before, like grocery stores would

48:35

clothes. You know, it's like you

48:38

know, like right at the end and like run

48:40

in and grab stuff. And I

48:42

mean it was just like it was such a Yeah,

48:46

I don't know, times are I

48:48

guess living in interesting times.

48:50

Someone I heard something it that way, It's for

48:53

sure.

48:55

After the break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation

48:58

with Connor Oberst. Here's

49:03

the rest of my conversation with Connor Oberst.

49:07

I love your song. I hate it's really

49:13

that's a phenomenal song. It does

49:15

something for me that I don't know that many

49:17

other songs that sound like it. Do you know what?

49:21

Uh can you tell me about

49:23

writing that song?

49:25

Yeah, that was one actually that started

49:28

with a musical idea from

49:31

Nate Walcott and I

49:33

kind of sat with it

49:35

and then yeah,

49:37

I don't know, I started. I

49:40

had the first couple of lines and then I just

49:42

thought,

49:45

you know, that's like a pretty I

49:48

guess songwriting device, you know, sort

49:50

of start every line with the same same

49:53

word phrase.

49:55

It's actually kind of easy to write that way. It was just

49:57

a list of.

49:57

Things, you know. Yeah,

50:00

but yeah,

50:03

that was one that like.

50:04

Is this sincere? Like I

50:06

mean, the first two lines, I hate

50:08

the.

50:13

I mean it is it is sincere.

50:16

I mean, I guess

50:18

I'll like qualify

50:20

it with you know, everyone's

50:23

beliefs if it takes

50:25

them to a place that creates

50:28

more empathy or

50:30

understanding or comfort. You

50:33

know, I'm not I don't mean to deride

50:35

that, you know, I

50:37

think about like my grandma, like praying

50:39

the Rosary and stuff like that. But to

50:42

me, like organized

50:45

religion and even like

50:47

the pseudo religions, the

50:49

cults, and I mean, to me, it's

50:51

just the some good

50:54

versus evil

50:56

to humanity. Is It's

50:59

pretty clear to me. I think that they all

51:01

just like just

51:04

riddle the world with division

51:06

and ignorance and bigotry.

51:08

And so yeah,

51:10

I stand behind

51:13

all that. I think it's I think it's interesting

51:16

that like it seems like whenever

51:18

someone like quote unquote

51:21

like gets a message from God, it's

51:23

like God always

51:25

says like, have sex with all

51:27

the women and children, take

51:30

all the money, and kill

51:33

your enemies. You know. That's

51:35

like God's like same message, and

51:38

it's like God's a twisted fuck, you.

51:40

Know, you

51:45

know it's kind of true. Yeah,

51:49

some wild ship.

51:50

Man like,

51:52

yeah, it's a

51:56

it's a strange thing. But

51:58

yeah, that was one that the label. There

52:01

was two songs that the

52:03

label was like weird

52:06

about. There

52:08

was one song. It's like it's

52:11

like, actually like it

52:13

a lot, and I think it's catchy,

52:15

but it's like it's like a SKA song.

52:18

It's called First World Blues.

52:20

Oh make the record.

52:21

You didn't make the record because they

52:23

were like, you put this on the record.

52:25

All anyone's gonna say is like, right,

52:28

I just you know, go scar or

52:30

something. I don't know what they but I

52:32

was like and then hate

52:34

for like obvious reasons, I guess, like offending

52:37

people or something. But I

52:39

I capitulated on

52:41

the SKA one, and then I was like, hate's going

52:44

on the record up there, so

52:47

that's gotta that's gotta be there.

52:49

So yeah, bright Eyes ghost Scar might

52:51

have been a kind of an appealing line

52:53

in a way, drawn

52:56

some drawn some listeners in I think with that one.

52:58

I mean, it's definitely gonna see the light of day

53:01

one of these days.

53:02

But in the form that it's in now or

53:04

re recorded. Yeah, Okay, you have

53:06

like we.

53:07

Have like good like eight

53:09

songs that we recorded that like didn't make

53:12

the record.

53:12

So so how

53:14

often do you revisit stuff? Like you were saying you had

53:17

like many more songs for Casadega and

53:19

you know, Rick helped you little whittle that down, Like

53:21

did did those extras ever come out?

53:24

Or are they still somewhere tucked away?

53:28

I think like some of them did, some

53:31

of them didn't. Some of them are like promo

53:35

for that record, but I mean I guess you could

53:37

find them on the internet probably, but

53:39

like like weird things like oh

53:42

they sent out a song to like the

53:44

mailing list is like a treat or

53:46

something, you know. Yeah, yeah, I don't

53:48

know, Like but yeah, there's

53:50

there's songs weighing

53:52

around for sure, but yeah,

53:56

yeah, I don't know. I kind of want to do I

53:58

definitely want to do something with the ones that didn't make

54:00

this record, because I

54:02

think some of them are like

54:05

like some of them, like I

54:08

don't know what the best they're ones I like wow,

54:10

So, yeahs, have.

54:12

You heard from anyone that is a fan of

54:14

yours that you've been surprised by?

54:18

That's a good question. I'm

54:20

always surprised.

54:24

I don't know a lot of times like they'll

54:26

be I feel like you make like weird

54:29

like too. Like a lot of times, like when you're on these

54:31

like festival circuits, like eure

54:33

Ape festival circuits, you end up like

54:37

like watching a band that you never

54:39

would and kind of like even like hang

54:41

out. Like I remember like one summer,

54:44

like every place we played was

54:46

like incubisc was playing. I like never

54:48

listened to Incubists, but I'm like, they're really

54:50

nice guys and they're like,

54:53

you know, it's.

54:54

Like stuff like that.

54:54

It's the weird, weird like tour

54:57

friendships. I feel like happened, you

54:59

know.

55:01

Bringing up Incabists reminded me that there's a some

55:03

some record scratches on the time

55:05

I Have left. I'm pretty sure is that at the end

55:08

of the time I have left, which was an

55:10

unexpected touch.

55:13

Yeah, I think it's like

55:15

that one and went out

55:17

and I think tiny suicides

55:20

too.

55:20

But there's this guy.

55:23

Named ebabs uh okay

55:26

Eric, but he's just he's like a hip

55:28

hop producer, DJ

55:32

scratching guy here in Omaha,

55:35

works with like a lot of hip

55:38

hop groups.

55:40

My friend Mars Black.

55:41

Is like one of like his main

55:44

collaborators. But uh yeah,

55:47

he came in like worked on those songs and yeah

55:51

it's just something we hadn't tried before.

55:53

And he's a friend of ours. So I

55:56

think he did it. Like he took it super

55:58

like seriously, and like like he

56:01

was in the studio for a whole couple of days

56:03

and he's still like I was like what he did?

56:05

I like, I thought sounding great.

56:06

I was like it's good, and

56:09

he's like, you know, just like take it home

56:11

and like think about it a little more.

56:13

Like like he took it super seriously.

56:15

So I mean it's like they're like subtle

56:17

things, but if you I think they

56:19

add like just like a cool

56:21

different layer to it.

56:24

Like it really works and it's really it is super

56:26

subtle. Do you know what he was scratching? Because

56:29

it is he.

56:30

Has this thing that he used that it's

56:33

like a digital you can basically

56:36

load any sample

56:39

into it and it has like

56:41

a essentially

56:43

like a fake record on it. I don't exactly

56:45

know how it works.

56:48

For that song, like you

56:50

know, he had Matt

56:53

Berninger's separated vocal

56:56

and he just ran it into the thing

56:58

and then you know scratched it.

57:00

And scratching

57:03

Matt's vocal over Matt.

57:04

Interesting, Yeah, I

57:07

remember back for Lift.

57:09

Did this

57:12

is like so crazy that we were like this,

57:16

well, there'd be way easier ways to do this now.

57:18

But we heard that Portishead

57:21

had thrust tracks

57:24

of their record and then like

57:26

like fucked up the record with like

57:29

sandpaper and stuff and then like

57:31

played it back into the tracks. Like

57:33

that's how they made like some of those like classics,

57:37

And so we did that. We got like tests you can

57:39

get like test pressings made without

57:41

press you know, without making a whole record. So we had

57:44

like separate tracks and

57:46

we got test pressings

57:48

like records made, and like we did

57:50

we.

57:50

Just basically like stole that idea.

57:52

And so like when you hear like if you listener Lifted

57:55

and you hear like the pops and the crackles and

57:58

like the drums on like Lover and

58:00

stuff, Yeah, those are all

58:03

onto a LP and

58:06

then like recorded back into the

58:08

tracks.

58:08

Wow, the drums on Lover

58:10

are fucking really good. Are really

58:13

good that's that

58:15

whole record.

58:16

We had like a kind

58:18

of a drum corps like approach

58:21

where you had like three drummers and

58:23

a marching band kind of style.

58:26

Yeah, we like we're

58:30

into some weird stuff.

58:31

There's a Leonard Cohen album, Death

58:34

of a Lady's Man that Phil Spector

58:36

produced that we're trying

58:38

to ammunilate that out as

58:40

well. But like, but

58:42

like I'm like, you know, they have like real stuff

58:45

happening there, and you have like the you

58:47

know, the equivalent of our like

58:50

sixth grade orchestra.

58:51

Back then, like

58:53

like early bride as, it was like.

58:55

Oh she

58:58

owns a viola? Can you

59:01

know? It was so yeah, it

59:03

was kind of like if you had an instrument

59:05

that was like interesting, we'd like

59:07

record it. So it's cool.

59:10

It sounds like kind of insane, but

59:13

you know, later on, like when

59:15

Nate joined the band, fully it kind

59:17

of graduated to like go on to

59:19

Capitol Studios and recording

59:22

like actual orchestras.

59:23

But yeah, you guys did a great approximation.

59:26

I mean even you know, like cursive man, like some

59:28

of the string

59:30

arrangements and I don't know how arranged

59:32

they actually were. I mean, you know, or

59:35

not, but they sound like it. They're you

59:37

know amazing, you know, yeah it would

59:39

and like all that.

59:40

I mean it's just like whoa, you know, yeah, the interplay

59:42

between those guitars and the cello with like

59:45

very kind of special

59:47

special combo.

59:49

I feel like that the Ugly Ugly organ.

59:51

It's a record that doesn't get enough love, you know, it's

59:53

a.

59:55

That's a great one.

59:56

I think my favorite is actually, uh Happy

1:00:00

Hollow, which is like the next one after

1:00:02

that.

1:00:02

Yeah, are you still gonna tour in

1:00:05

the new year?

1:00:06

Yeah? Starting but januine

1:00:09

I want to say sixteenth or something like that in

1:00:11

Phoenix, and so it's like

1:00:14

us were kind of the first

1:00:16

half of the year and then go to Europe

1:00:18

in summer. Yeah,

1:00:22

kind of hit the hit

1:00:24

the road and play play

1:00:27

this new record for the

1:00:29

people.

1:00:30

Cool?

1:00:30

Is there anything between like that

1:00:32

tour ending and that starting?

1:00:35

Like with your voice, I know you have like we're

1:00:37

having some vocal issues, like are you having to

1:00:39

do certain things or avoid certain

1:00:42

things?

1:00:43

Well, I like yeah, I

1:00:45

mean, you know, this has actually

1:00:47

been such a nice conversation. I was prepared

1:00:49

for like doom and gloom with you

1:00:52

know, the election and things.

1:00:54

Like figure out how to avoid it, you know.

1:00:56

Yeah, it's just like, well, like

1:00:58

physically, I feel a

1:01:01

lot better than

1:01:03

I did a couple of months ago.

1:01:05

Yeah, it was like it's

1:01:08

I had like a problem

1:01:10

with my esophagus and so

1:01:13

I kind of see like into

1:01:16

a lot of doctor's appointments and

1:01:19

they stuck some robotic

1:01:21

shit down my throat and

1:01:23

so.

1:01:24

I yeah, fingers

1:01:26

crossed.

1:01:26

But I've been just

1:01:29

singing around here and it

1:01:32

feels totally back to

1:01:34

normal.

1:01:34

So hopefully, yeah, we'll just

1:01:37

get back out there.

1:01:37

It was. It was definitely like a bummer that

1:01:41

kind of coincided with like

1:01:43

when the record was coming out, but really

1:01:45

it was always meant to be. The shows

1:01:48

in the fall were kind of I don't want to say

1:01:50

promo, but they were.

1:01:52

They were.

1:01:52

Yeah.

1:01:52

They were like yeah, like

1:01:55

smaller venues and like sort

1:01:57

of doing press for the record,

1:02:00

and then the actual tour tour

1:02:02

was always in twenty twenty five, so it

1:02:06

was and we're gonna hopefully make up. We're

1:02:08

gonna go to.

1:02:09

All those cities again like

1:02:11

that we missed.

1:02:12

So cool. I haven't asked any questions

1:02:14

about this Barcidos. I do want to ask

1:02:16

about that, and I

1:02:19

guess I'm curious. You know, those songs were very

1:02:21

political in their way when the President

1:02:24

talks to God political in its way. Did

1:02:26

those songs sound like that when

1:02:28

you first wrote them or were they like

1:02:32

radically different when you initially

1:02:34

wrote them before taking them to the band.

1:02:37

No, like THEOS

1:02:40

songs were like a different

1:02:42

process, Like we we

1:02:44

wrote them all. I

1:02:46

mean I would maybe have a chord progression or

1:02:48

Denver Dally who was the other guitar player,

1:02:52

would have like some musical thing, But we wrote them

1:02:54

all like in the band room, like loud

1:02:57

so and I would I would have

1:02:59

like a we'd make like I

1:03:01

don't know, I guess the first record whatever we had

1:03:03

at the time, like mini diss or some

1:03:06

kind of recording device, and

1:03:08

I would just kind of sing scream

1:03:10

like gibberish to get like a melody, and

1:03:13

then I, you know, write write

1:03:15

the words to the melody. And

1:03:17

yeah, it was always kind of and

1:03:21

we knew what we wanted to

1:03:23

sing about, you know, and kind of just

1:03:28

I guess going towards that tradition of

1:03:32

you know, political punk

1:03:34

rock, pop punk, whatever

1:03:37

you want to call it, hardcore.

1:03:38

I guess it didn't feel so pop

1:03:41

punk to me, but yeah, yeah,

1:03:43

yeah, I guess whatever.

1:03:46

That is the story of guitars and screaming.

1:03:49

Maybe little little cap and jazz

1:03:51

ish yeah in

1:03:54

a way. Yeah.

1:03:55

So but we had a trouble. We had trouble,

1:03:58

like just stay in a

1:04:00

band for very long. I think we were like a band

1:04:03

for a couple of years

1:04:05

at first, and then we kind of like broke

1:04:07

up. And then we made another record only fifteen

1:04:09

and right when

1:04:12

we we like finished,

1:04:14

we like mixed the record, and

1:04:16

then like nine to eleven happened,

1:04:19

and it was like, oh, we made this like slightly

1:04:22

anti American, like anti capitalists.

1:04:27

There was a.

1:04:28

Flag on every house in the world,

1:04:30

and like and on.

1:04:32

Yeah, we went on tour, and I

1:04:35

mean people that came to our shows were

1:04:37

like, you know, I think on

1:04:39

the same page to some degree. But yeah,

1:04:43

doing interviews and things, it was it

1:04:45

was like a classic

1:04:48

classic bad timing but

1:04:50

or maybe good timing. I always said, like I was

1:04:52

like, well, the most American thing

1:04:55

you can do is like descent, you know, so

1:04:57

I think right in that sense,

1:05:01

there's the right time. I just remember.

1:05:03

After that it was things

1:05:05

started getting really crazy

1:05:08

and Bride Eyes World like moved

1:05:11

to like touring on a bus and like playing

1:05:14

like a lot of bigger shows. And I mean

1:05:16

and to a certain degree, Discursus was always

1:05:18

a side project

1:05:21

because you know, I

1:05:23

guess Bright Ass was just kind.

1:05:25

Of my main thing.

1:05:27

But I really did, like I still love

1:05:29

like playing loud music and like screaming.

1:05:32

I'm getting like a little too old for it, but.

1:05:35

Yeah it's funny man. When Lifted came out, I

1:05:38

just remember thinking like this is the most commercial

1:05:40

fucking you know, not like the music, but just like

1:05:42

the way the response. It felt like, holy fuck,

1:05:45

this is a big record, you know, and like

1:05:48

I don't even know how

1:05:50

much I don't even know to which degree Bright

1:05:54

Eyes fans even connect

1:05:56

to that record or know that record. You know, there's so many

1:05:58

sets, you know, but the time

1:06:00

I was like, whove, you know, this is a this is

1:06:02

a big record, you know.

1:06:04

Yeah, definitely, it was definitely a change.

1:06:07

It was like.

1:06:09

You know, real like

1:06:12

had a tour manager, had a sound person,

1:06:15

had touring a bus, had

1:06:17

a real booking agent. It was like we're

1:06:20

moving out of the van and out

1:06:22

of the truly like yeah,

1:06:26

why space into like oh,

1:06:29

we're like a band that's in magazines

1:06:31

and yeah those real shows. Yeah,

1:06:35

that was it.

1:06:36

Was a transitional

1:06:39

time.

1:06:40

Yeah, yeah, pre I

1:06:42

guess that area you were talking about, like that re election

1:06:44

of Bush, there weren't many

1:06:46

people voicing what you

1:06:48

were on that right, you know, like I don't want to be

1:06:50

ashamed to be American. I feel like being ashamed of

1:06:52

an American was very common by

1:06:54

like two thousand and five or six or

1:06:57

seven, but you know, and the

1:06:59

time

1:07:02

an American idiot. Yeah, by the time of an American

1:07:04

idiot, I feel like that was a very popular

1:07:06

sentiment, but in like two

1:07:09

thousand and two thousand and one, that did not feel very

1:07:12

commonplace at all. You know. Yeah,

1:07:15

well then very anticipatory in that way. I don't

1:07:17

know, you know, yeah.

1:07:18

I remember, well, I

1:07:20

guess it kind of makes sense.

1:07:22

I don't know. I remember being like

1:07:24

all these like British journalists

1:07:27

coming to interview us, like Uncut

1:07:30

and Mojo and all that

1:07:32

stuff. It's almost like they it

1:07:35

made more sense to them, I think than

1:07:37

like US press

1:07:40

or something. Yeah, they were like into

1:07:42

it, you know, They're like political

1:07:45

punk is bad, you know, and

1:07:49

I think here it was kind of just

1:07:52

I don't know they I think people

1:07:55

liked the music, but maybe weren't

1:07:57

didn't care that much about the words, you know.

1:08:00

Yeah, were you always a pretty political person?

1:08:03

Like or not?

1:08:05

Really? I would say no, I mean definitely

1:08:08

not. I think

1:08:10

that like my awareness of politics

1:08:12

started really

1:08:14

like right around two thousand.

1:08:16

I remember being on tour when.

1:08:19

The first Bush election

1:08:22

happened, and you know,

1:08:24

it's like weeks till we knew who the president

1:08:27

was. I just remember being

1:08:29

like, this is strange, Like something

1:08:31

is like this should

1:08:33

it be like this?

1:08:34

Like?

1:08:35

And so I started kind of

1:08:37

paying attention. I mean I was only like twenty, and

1:08:40

then like nine to eleven happened, and then it

1:08:42

was like we were all in it, you know,

1:08:45

I mean make.

1:08:45

Sure remember just it was

1:08:47

like it was like.

1:08:50

Everything felt very

1:08:53

different and very real and very

1:08:56

terrifying. And started

1:08:59

to think about, like, I

1:09:01

don't know, have a more global perspective.

1:09:06

And yeah,

1:09:08

and.

1:09:08

Then I got and I got kind of

1:09:10

more and more, you know, became

1:09:13

kind of a news junkie and all

1:09:15

the rest of it. But you did,

1:09:18

yeah, I mean for sure, like

1:09:20

after I kind of just

1:09:22

felt like I needed to understand like what

1:09:25

was happening, you know.

1:09:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it

1:09:29

was all especially back then. I mean now everything feels

1:09:31

anything that's happening feels more

1:09:33

or less very central to the US,

1:09:36

Like it's all kind of like what's happening here?

1:09:38

And how do we figure it out? But yeah, then

1:09:40

it was kind of like what like whoa like a

1:09:43

Sunni and a Shia and you know, a

1:09:45

bath and like it's like like what are these?

1:09:48

You know? And I mean perhaps

1:09:50

or should be ashamed, but yeah, who knew? You know, I

1:09:53

barely knew what a Democrat and Republican? Was it that

1:09:55

exactly know anything? But yeah,

1:09:58

weird weird times

1:10:00

you were talking about how you mentioned how you were

1:10:04

cool. Yeah, we can wrap up. What

1:10:07

do you What

1:10:09

do you do to warm up? Vocally?

1:10:12

Typically, I've

1:10:15

never done I've been on tour with people

1:10:18

that do the vocal you know that.

1:10:20

No, no, Nony Noon.

1:10:24

All like do it to like the tapes

1:10:26

and stuff that, you know, never

1:10:30

did that.

1:10:31

I just I

1:10:35

mean, my I don't really have any magic, magic

1:10:37

tricks. It's like a lot of a

1:10:41

lot of like tea and I

1:10:43

mean I've tried all kinds of like

1:10:46

things like various

1:10:49

potions and singers,

1:10:51

saving Grace and like low

1:10:53

quad and all the

1:10:55

stuff you can get at the health

1:10:57

food store. And then if you're really

1:10:59

desperate and you gotta

1:11:01

play a big show, the secret

1:11:04

is the rock doc. It

1:11:07

will come to your show, depending

1:11:10

on what city you're in and give

1:11:12

you a cortizone shot and like

1:11:14

a beach well shot in your ass,

1:11:17

and then you can sing like

1:11:20

you've never sang before. But

1:11:22

the problem is when your voice gets sore,

1:11:25

it's your body telling you to

1:11:28

like rest it.

1:11:29

And like if you get a steroid shot.

1:11:32

You can sing loud and great,

1:11:35

but you're just you're

1:11:38

just you know, you're taking your

1:11:41

your vocal cords and your throat and everything

1:11:43

to like a place they shouldn't

1:11:45

be taken to, just like physically

1:11:47

speaking. So I've had like times

1:11:51

where I'll like I'll

1:11:54

resort to that and

1:11:56

then you know, the

1:11:59

next morning, I'm like, really, I can't

1:12:01

talk, you know. So

1:12:03

it's kind of a that's like a desperate

1:12:06

desperate times situation. But you always

1:12:08

hear like remembers about like there's some people

1:12:10

that get one before like every show, you

1:12:13

know, the older

1:12:15

like Steven Tyler or something.

1:12:17

You know, I remember walking in on

1:12:19

someone one time was done

1:12:22

it. It's like the first time.

1:12:23

I was kind of like, oh ship, Yeah, it's it's it's

1:12:25

really fun like the show you play on it

1:12:28

because you're like all like, you know, roid

1:12:31

it out and I

1:12:33

feel, you know, you

1:12:35

didn't rip your

1:12:37

shirt off and scream your

1:12:39

lad.

1:12:40

And yeah, we're waiting

1:12:42

for that era. Connor Oberst. Man like the

1:12:45

jiu jitsu d.

1:12:48

Connor Trent

1:12:52

Reznor can lift weights? You know, I don't see

1:12:54

why I can't.

1:12:55

It's a great point. It's a great point,

1:13:00

cool man. Thanks for thanks for indulging

1:13:02

me.

1:13:02

Man.

1:13:02

I feel like I took little more time than

1:13:04

I needed to, but just it was fun

1:13:06

to talk to.

1:13:07

You, and it's great talking to you the

1:13:09

music, So thank you so much

1:13:11

for doing it.

1:13:16

Thanks to Connor Oberst for taking time out of his vocal

1:13:18

rest to have a chat about his new album, Five

1:13:20

Dices All Threes and to talk through

1:13:22

his lengthy career. You can

1:13:24

hear some of our favorite Connor Obersts and Saddle Creek

1:13:27

songs on a playlist in the episode description,

1:13:29

and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the

1:13:32

Broken Record Pod. You can follow

1:13:34

us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken

1:13:36

Record is produced by Leah Rose with marketing

1:13:39

help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1:13:41

Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken

1:13:44

Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1:13:47

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1:13:49

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1:14:07

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1:14:09

I'm just enrichment