0:15

Pushkin. Henry

0:21

Rawlins is intense about the things

0:23

he loves. It's like

0:25

he's on a mission from God, and he's been

0:28

that way since his days It's Black Flags frontman.

0:30

In the eighties, their music

0:32

was pure aggression. At

0:34

shows, there was no delineating between

0:37

the band and the audience. It

0:39

was all just one big moshpian with

0:41

Rollins physically fighting off the crowd

0:43

and dodging beer bottles hurled at his head.

0:46

Real punk rock Gallins, Gallard

0:48

Riding lovedy.

1:02

For nearly twenty five years, Henry Rawlins

1:04

toured the world relentlessly, first

1:06

as Black Flag, then Rollins Band,

1:09

and most recently as a spoken word

1:11

artist just before the pandemic,

1:13

who performed in twenty one countries and was

1:15

the keynote speaker at conferences for things

1:17

as Munday in a Software but also

1:19

at cannabis conventions, which is funny

1:22

for someone as famously straight edge as

1:24

Rollins. Henry and Rick Rubin,

1:26

to the most music obsessed dudes of all

1:28

time, met way back in the day. They

1:31

even started the Infinite Zero label together in

1:33

the early nineties to reissue long forgotten

1:35

albums they both loved. Rick

1:38

sat with Henry at Changela pre pandemic,

1:40

and in full Rollin's fashion, the stories

1:42

just poured out of him. Henry

1:44

talks about the time he was christened the lead singer

1:46

by HR from Bad Brains, the day

1:49

he woke up and realized he was done right in music,

1:51

and why he'll never be the old guy on stage

1:54

performing his greatest hits. This

1:59

is broken record liner notes for the digital

2:01

age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's

2:08

Rick Rubin and Henry Rollins. I

2:11

was thinking about the fact that both

2:14

of us have essentially

2:17

made music our lives, and

2:19

neither of us, I would say, a particularly virtuoso

2:22

and my musician, I

2:24

can't. I can't play a note on any

2:26

instrument. All I can do is buy him and carry

2:29

him upstairs. Yes, I can't,

2:32

and I've never wanted to. I mean, I've

2:35

written songs in my head.

2:37

I co wrote a song with George Clinton once

2:40

and we hummed it to the band. He's

2:42

like I got something, and he hummed, I

2:45

go, that's King Crimson. How'd you know I have that

2:47

record? And he hummed another one. I go, that's

2:49

one of your own records, like oh man, And

2:51

then we finally came up with something that he wasn't

2:54

already used. And then I hummed something and

2:56

we wrote this song together and neither one

2:59

of us. He could probably play something. I don't

3:01

know, but we just found the music

3:03

by just going due. And the band were like

3:05

like this. I'm like, yeah, man. And it was fascinating

3:08

to be standing in front of these guys

3:10

sitting he was at the old Cherokee studios,

3:13

Me and Clinton looking at these guys going and

3:16

a song happened. Yeah, with no one's with

3:19

no one else sitting at a piano or anything. Yeah,

3:22

so if you if you know what you want to

3:24

hear. Yeah. And I've

3:27

never been a musician, you know. I

3:29

was angry. And they said, here's a microphone,

3:31

here's a beat, do your thing all right now?

3:34

I can do yes. At one time,

3:36

our second bass player, Melvin Gibs, he

3:38

heard me singing. He goes, oh, just put it in E, man, what

3:41

does that mean? Like you're E. I

3:44

didn't know what that meant until later, like this, just

3:47

anyone get hit at Henry, You're

3:49

safe in E. I'm like, I still don't know what it

3:51

means. Really, I guess that

3:53

means I suck or

3:58

limited? What was your first love

4:00

affair with music, go to the tell me

4:02

your first memories of like this is for me.

4:04

A couple of things. Well, if

4:07

my mom had pitch perfect taste in me

4:09

music and we rarely watched TV,

4:11

but we she would play one record after another, and

4:13

we go to the record store up

4:16

to three nights a week. My mom was a record

4:18

buyer. Bartok, Stravinsky, Beethoven,

4:21

Hendricks, Mary mcaba,

4:23

Barbara streisand showed too. It's like poor gay in best

4:25

Miles Monk Coltrane. I

4:28

mean, like perfect taste in music.

4:30

I don't necessarily need a Barbara streisand

4:32

record every day, but those are good records.

4:35

I mean, she's not messing around.

4:36

She's incredible Leadbelly,

4:39

Dylan, both Guthries. My mom is

4:41

like her record collection is a mo And

4:44

as a young adult, I went through her record collection

4:46

as like a twenty something who knew a thing or two,

4:48

and I went, wow, Miles Davis,

4:50

like, how come how come it stops

4:52

it? In a silent way, she's I

4:55

just couldn't. I stopped understanding Miles at a

4:57

certain point, and she said, I used to go see

4:59

Miles and Coltrane all the time. I said, you saw

5:01

Miles, and she goes yeah, together separately,

5:04

like you're killing me. I had no idea

5:06

how cool my mom was. So I

5:09

was raised in good

5:11

music, but the thing that really

5:14

knocked me out was Ringo drumming

5:16

on Sergeant Pepper. I'm

5:19

like, oh, I'm like eight years old, hyperactive

5:22

and just bouncing off the walls of my little

5:24

room. My mom gibbe Beatles records as electric

5:26

babysitters because I just play them over and over

5:28

again. But it was Ringo on

5:31

the outro version of the last you know, the

5:33

outro Sergeant Pepper riff on the way

5:35

out of the record where it's just like naked just

5:37

doing that that stacked up ringo

5:39

beat, and I said, that's that's

5:42

what I'm talking about. I didn't even know what I was into.

5:44

I just liked that and

5:46

that that that plays in my head all the

5:48

time, and that

5:50

was the hook. And the

5:52

first things I bought when I made money, like throwing

5:55

newspapers, was records, and

5:57

I bought you know, bike and records.

5:59

It wasn't candy drugs,

6:02

it was music. And I you know, records

6:05

are four dollars and ninety nine cents. Back when

6:07

Carter was president, and I would

6:09

make my money and go buy my four dollars

6:12

ninety nine cent. Some girls fly

6:14

like an eagle rocks

6:16

toys in the attic, you know, whatever was what was

6:19

up? And so how

6:21

old are you at this time? Fifteen fourteen? Yeah,

6:23

I was buying records steadily by the

6:25

time I was fourteen. I was a school

6:27

One time at prep school, all boys, and

6:29

I walked by one of the major jocks. He's got one

6:32

of those one speaker tape decks and

6:34

he's got this crazy music coming from and I

6:36

took all the courage I could someone like, you excuse

6:38

me, sir, what are you listening to? And he

6:40

looked at me like I was the dumbest guy on

6:43

the planet. He's like Ted Nugent, Like get

6:45

a clue. I was like, duly noted.

6:48

And I went to the record store after school

6:50

that day because I always worked, I always had little

6:52

pocket money, and I bought free

6:55

for all and then I went backwards

6:57

and bought the first album and those are the Nugent

7:00

records that were out, and I put him on im like, oh,

7:02

that's there, it is, That's what I'm

7:05

talking about. And then a couple of years

7:07

later, me and Ian McKay saw him live and I was

7:09

kind of like the one of the best things I've ever seen,

7:12

and it was like, to this day, top five

7:14

live gigs I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen quite

7:16

a few gigs. And so

7:19

music was an obsession all

7:21

through high school because it was the escape from the

7:23

drudgery of an all boys prep school where

7:26

as a hyperactive riddle and adult

7:28

student which didn't do well on any level

7:30

in school. And that's when me and Ian

7:32

McKay from Fugazi and Minor Threat,

7:35

our friend, we were

7:37

gig guys. We would just go to the sea the everybody

7:41

Van Hale and Arrowsmith, Zeppelin. We saw

7:43

everything we could. And then

7:46

when punk rock hit, that's when

7:48

music became like it went into the red

7:50

as far as collector guy need

7:53

to know too much about everything, hair

7:56

splitting, you know, magnifying glass

7:58

out looking at the label where I took

8:00

way better care of my records and just became

8:03

super vinyl obsessive. What was the first

8:05

punk record for you? The first one

8:07

you heard, first one you got, first one I heard was the first

8:09

Ramones album. I was. I was kind of birth purely

8:12

I read about these bands. He's like, what's this

8:14

punk rock craze? And I

8:16

had Nugent Records that was my crazy music.

8:19

And a guy in my neighborhood he's on a lot of the early

8:21

discord records, rore Bert Queiroz.

8:24

Bert was like the cool kid. He's

8:26

just a sharp guy, really sharp guy, has

8:28

his ear to the ground, and he knows about import

8:31

records. And one day we're at the skate ramp and

8:33

I said, you know, my music no longer

8:36

addresses my issues. I was like sixteen

8:38

and mad at everything, seventeen

8:40

whatever. I was just pissed and like, you know,

8:42

fly like an eagle. Great record, it's just not

8:44

cutting it. You know, I don't understand

8:47

the poetry of the lyrics. I want to, you know, meet

8:49

a girl and burn something to the crownd. And

8:51

so he said, come with me. So I went to his microscopic

8:54

apartment he shared with his mom, and he was like, I'm going to

8:56

loan you this record. I need it back tomorrow,

8:59

this first Ramons album. And my mom

9:01

wasn't home from work yet, so I put it on her nice

9:03

speakers, not my crappyge

9:06

in my room and I

9:08

heard the first Ramo album, and

9:10

I don't get it. There's a joke record, these

9:12

four morons on the cover, and that's not a rock band.

9:15

They don't look like elo, Like, what's what's their

9:17

problem? And then you get to the end of it

9:19

like okay, that's funny, that's not Then you

9:21

play it again because he said you need to play it three

9:23

times. I'm like, okay, it's a thirty minute records

9:27

because the first two times, the first time you're like, this

9:29

is hilarious, second time you're like

9:32

and then the first time you're like, oh, lightbulb,

9:34

and you're like, this is my band. And

9:37

with great regret and some reluctance,

9:39

I get the prize it from

9:41

my grasp. And then he said, okay, here's your

9:43

next lesson. First clash Shop because that's an import.

9:45

Be careful. I go, what's an import? He goes, that's

9:47

a day's pay. That's what that is. Twenty

9:49

dollars record in nineteen seventy nine

9:52

or whatever took the remote the Clash

9:54

record back and still to this day one of my favorite

9:56

records, and those

9:58

records blew my mind. I just didn't

10:01

know you could do that with I

10:03

didn't know you could say that in a lyric. Have

10:06

not so many instruments on a record. I'm

10:08

used to elo ninety keyboards and feel

10:11

I love those records. I walked

10:13

through the snow to buy Out of the Blue or whatever

10:15

the big double album is. I love

10:17

that record. But it's like eighty of everything,

10:20

and it's all so perfect. You can't

10:22

get near it. With the remotes. You can hear the

10:24

cracks like, oh, those are humans, And

10:26

I never thought I could do that, but you, like you look at

10:28

him, I could approach those guys. You're never going

10:30

to meet Robert Plant, but you

10:32

could meet one of those guys. And all of a sudden,

10:36

I went from seeing led Zeppelin at

10:38

the Capitol Center's gone Now We're

10:40

the ind to seeing February

10:43

fifteen, nineteen seventy one, seeing bow Didley

10:45

opening for the Clash, and

10:47

he said he looked at the crowd bunch a little

10:49

like all one hundred and fifty of us.

10:52

Do you remember when the coolest thing you're gonna have it was a fifty five

10:54

Chevy, A girl at your side. We're like yay, Like no,

10:56

you don't like okay whatever, We're just trying to be

10:58

there with you. Man, and so bow Didley

11:00

played. He was brought there. He's a DC guy, so

11:02

he walked to the show. He lived right down the street,

11:05

so the Clash requested him because he knew he's

11:07

a DC native. And then the Clash play in the

11:09

open with Janey Jones or White Riot something,

11:12

and it was like getting hit with

11:14

this blinding white light and

11:17

it just seemed to burn, like

11:19

I'm burning, my skin's on fire. This

11:21

is like destroying every notion I

11:23

have of what music. So I used to watch from

11:26

like a block away, and suddenly

11:29

within a year, I'm being sweated

11:31

on by De de ramon Luck's interiors

11:33

down to his underwear landing

11:36

on me. I'm like, oh, naked man, Like

11:39

it became real. The

11:41

Bad Brains are breathing on me because I'm standing

11:43

in front of them at a punk rock party.

11:46

And that's when music went from this spectator

11:48

sport to this thing that I knew

11:50

was going to be my life, even if

11:52

it's just fanboy, record

11:55

store, go to guy going to

11:57

a gig. Guy. I never

11:59

thought of being in a band until one night,

12:01

hr of the Bad Brains. He said, Harry,

12:04

you're a singer, and I said, no, man,

12:06

you're you're the singer. He said, you're

12:09

a singer, and tonight you're gonna be in the bat brightness.

12:12

And I'm standing in front of him, and he grabbed

12:14

me by my arm, put me on stage, gave

12:16

me the microphone, went back down off

12:18

the stage about as high as the couch we're sitting on,

12:21

and stud in front of me with his arms crossed. And

12:23

I knew those songs, we all did. And I just

12:25

call that a couple mid tempo was I could try

12:27

and get near and I sang

12:30

them and I remember Hr

12:32

looking at me with this intense scowl like se

12:35

and I was like, oh, well, I guess here's your

12:37

mic back. That was a thrilling three and a half minutes.

12:40

But within a few months I was in a band.

12:42

But so

12:45

as me and some other guy. You know, we weren't

12:47

that good. We had a lot of fun. Our songs were forty four

12:49

seconds, gigs were nine minutes in length.

12:52

All the songs we had fit on one forty

12:54

five and it's like at least

12:57

five and a half minutes of music. Yeah,

12:59

how long did that band last? I got into that

13:01

band. They were pre existing and

13:04

the singer, some guy named Lyle Pressler,

13:06

he never went anywhere. He was also a good

13:09

guitar players, so he moved across town to some

13:11

band called Minor Threat. Oh yeah, yeah.

13:13

Then anyway, so Lyle leaves and

13:15

he leaves behind this band who needs a singer.

13:18

So I go see his old band, the

13:20

Extorts, one night, and they're shopping

13:22

for a singer. So everyone knows who

13:25

are seen as you can fit them all in this room. It's

13:27

not that many people, so they know who I

13:29

am. I know who they are. So I said, I'll

13:31

sing with you guys, and they went okay. I

13:33

think they're too scared to say no because

13:35

they're just, you know, ah scary guy

13:38

with no hair. And so suddenly I'm at band

13:40

practice having to write lyrics, which

13:42

amazingly was not that difficult. Well,

13:45

I can't say anything about the quality of the lyrics,

13:47

but it came to me I was probably pretty

13:49

pedestrian, like I'll sing on every snare

13:51

beat because melody's not my thing.

13:54

But suddenly I'm in this band

13:56

and it felt right, It felt really

13:58

right. It felt like I was a fish dropped into water.

14:00

No stage fright, none, zero, like

14:02

I couldn't wait. And that

14:06

was October eighty By

14:08

July eighty one, I'm

14:10

in California at Black

14:12

Flag practice. How did that happen? That's

14:15

crazy. I'll give you the hyper condensed

14:17

version. I knew those guys because they would

14:20

come through town and when they're in DC,

14:22

they'd stayed in Ian's mom's basement.

14:25

So Ian's house is the coolest in DC

14:27

because you could go there and excuse me, miss

14:29

McKay, is Ian home. He's downstairs

14:31

with a black Flag, and so we're all

14:34

like, you're in black Flag. We're just like staying and they're

14:36

like, oh gooey on the inside.

14:38

So I got to know those guys, and you know, they're

14:40

just broke touring band, as I was

14:42

student to find out, and they

14:45

were doing a tour on the East Coast. I

14:47

met him in March April. They came back in July,

14:50

not playing DC, so I

14:53

took a drove my car up to see

14:55

them at Irving Plaza and

14:58

guest list. I hung out with them all afternoon because I kind

15:00

of sort of knew him. Drove with them

15:02

to another show at Second and A there

15:05

and I helped him load in Me and John

15:08

Joseph at the chromag loaded their gear in which

15:10

a guy gets stabbed, like, okay, that that just

15:12

happened. Here's the snare. And

15:15

I'm looking at my watch. I gotta drive to DC and

15:17

do a full shift at hogandahs on no sleep. But

15:19

I'm young. I can totally do it. Just one

15:21

thing. I've top ramen noodles. I'm good to go. And

15:24

so I looked at my watch and I said, hey, they're

15:26

playing this tiny bar. I said, can you

15:28

guys do a song for me? It's called clocked In. It's a

15:30

great riff. And Dez, the great singer

15:33

at the time, he said, this is for Henry. It's

15:35

called clocked In because he's got to go to work. And he's

15:38

like, who's that? And I looked

15:40

at I have no memory of this. I looked at Des and Dees

15:42

looked at me, and suddenly I'm standing on

15:44

stage with him, and I must

15:46

have had quite a look on my face because I looked at him.

15:48

He just gave me the mic, like, don't hurt me. Here's the mic. I'm

15:51

like okay, and the band was like,

15:53

oh, Henry's gonna sing. I knew the words. It's like a ninety

15:55

second song, and I sang the words the

15:57

way I thought those songs should be sung, where

15:59

like vital organs fly out of your mouth, the audience

16:02

is terrified and Rome burns

16:04

to the ground, and I do

16:06

the thing, and I remember two

16:08

things. I remember the audience

16:10

going like ah like looking at like they're

16:12

being assaulted, and Greg and Chuck

16:15

looking at the center of the stage

16:17

at me, going like huh, like that's

16:20

keeping us awake. And I gave the mic

16:22

back and I got into my wounded

16:24

nineteen sixty eight VW fastback with

16:27

the dent in the hood from where the mace canister

16:29

bounced off it when my mom was locked in a

16:31

traffic jam riot in the sixties. I

16:34

drive the wounded car to my work shower in

16:36

the work sync, pull on a new shirt, and

16:39

I'm scooping ice cream, thinking I was in Black

16:41

Flag for ninety seconds. I've been

16:43

you know, I'm twenty. My life

16:45

is one humiliation after another. Minimum

16:47

wage jobs are going to be my life. This

16:50

is I got no plan, but man,

16:52

that was right. I was. I was in the right place,

16:54

and I got band practice. I go back to go

16:57

back to work and the phone rings. It's

17:00

someone in Black Flag has found found the work

17:02

number. Hey, Henry, we're auditioning

17:04

singers. Dez wants to move to rhythm guitar.

17:07

You're pretty crazy last night. You want to come

17:09

up here to New York and audition. We'll

17:11

pay your train fare. Like, what do

17:13

I have to lose? I'm twenty, I'm going nowhere three

17:15

seventy five an hour. I have nothing to

17:17

lose, and I'm not a tough guy. I don't have a lot of guts

17:19

and courage. But I said, this is it, this is a shot.

17:22

This is never happening to me again. No

17:24

way, shouldn't be happening now. So

17:26

I said, I'll be there tomorrow, give me an address. Met

17:29

the met at Odessa

17:32

Polish diners great, a lot of food for cheap.

17:34

That's why they liked it. I ate there so many times

17:36

in Black Flag since anyway,

17:38

I said, so what are we doing? I still like Clay

17:40

that we're gonna go to a practice place and you're gonna sing two

17:43

sets. I said, I don't know any of the words.

17:45

They hardly have any records out is it sucks

17:47

to be you? What was out at that point? The yellow

17:50

Yeah Jealous again? In the Yellow twelve inch six pack

17:52

was the EP they were touring on, and

17:54

then there was the Damage,

17:57

the Damage One in Louie Louis on

17:59

Posh Boy, the single, and Nervous Breakdown

18:01

EP. So not much,

18:03

not much at all, not TV

18:07

party and Rise the Bob and all the big

18:09

stuff and in your world?

18:12

What was Black Flag to you at that time? Before thing?

18:15

To me? It was the ultimate band. And they

18:17

asked me, like, what's your favorite song of ours?

18:19

I said, Damage One, the slow one with the wrong chord,

18:22

liked and I

18:24

was like, that's the song and they went, you like that, you

18:26

like the slow one. I'm like, yeah, that's the one.

18:28

They want to go and kill everyone. They went, you're

18:31

all right. They were fascinated

18:33

that I liked the slow wrong one, classic

18:36

gin weirdo chord, which

18:38

is genius, and that was my jam

18:40

and they went, okay, you're interesting. And

18:43

so we get in this tiny practice room

18:46

and I literally am holding a microphone a

18:48

fifty seven, not a

18:50

fifty eight, and I pinched myself because

18:52

I did I didn't believe. I said, so what

18:55

song you want to start with? I said, well, I didn't

18:57

even know many of the song titles. I said, Police

18:59

Story and gain. He

19:02

has an on off. He doesn't have a tone thing.

19:04

He took that out and just put an on off

19:06

switch, so that all the early Black Flag records

19:08

you hear, and that's just him

19:10

hitting on and the thing starts howling.

19:13

With feedback. It's a Dan Armstrong. We could

19:15

pick ups floating in resin, so it's a feedback

19:17

machine. And all I can remember

19:19

is and ninety minutes later, we've

19:22

done every song twice. I'm

19:24

completely soaked in sweat. I

19:26

have no real memory of it. All I

19:28

remember is I just kind of went ooh wah wah

19:30

and yelled and scream. I had fun. And

19:33

they said, okay, we're gonna have a band meeting. You go wait in

19:35

the front lounge. I ran across

19:37

the street, got one of those cool glass

19:39

bottles of tropicana. Not from

19:41

concentrating. I'm like cool live in large dollar

19:44

thirty five and I'm sitting there waiting

19:46

for the verdict, which I figure is gonna be like hours. They're gonna

19:48

take out the skull and light the candle and with out

19:51

the sacred verses. Now they came out in like

19:53

three minutes, and one of them, I

19:55

think it was Dakowski, said so matter

19:57

of factly, you're in. And I said, excuse

20:00

me, you're in? I said in

20:02

what in Black Flag? Who?

20:05

You me? Yeah? Doing what? You're the

20:07

singer of who? Black Flag? Because

20:09

they were like, He's

20:12

like, so you're in. And I was in

20:14

disbelief. And one of them finally said you want the job or

20:16

not? I was like, yeah, wait, wait

20:18

a minute. I was scooping ice cream yesterday,

20:21

is this happening? It was unreal? So

20:23

I said, so what do I do? And I

20:26

forget which maybe it was Dakowski. He

20:28

hands me this massive folder of

20:30

lyrics. You know, they were prepared,

20:32

and they said, you learn these,

20:35

you go home, you kiss your little mommy

20:37

goodbye, you quit your job, you give all

20:39

your stuff away, you pack a bag. Here's the tour,

20:41

I tinner, you meet us as soon as you can.

20:44

And then one of the road crew guys are

20:47

laughing and what's so funny?

20:49

Like, man, we got we gotta make the album

20:51

soon. I said, what album? The first

20:53

Black Flag album? I said, aha, so who's singing

20:55

on that? And they went, you do

20:58

you get it? I feared

21:00

it would be Daz like the Farewell Das album.

21:02

I didn't know, And I get

21:04

on the train, numb like speechless,

21:07

kind of holding this folder

21:10

like it's not even mine. And I

21:12

go to work and Ian Mackay

21:14

calls because there's no internet, he said, where have

21:16

you been? Let me talk every day he

21:18

said, I said, okay, I left

21:21

town like yesterday, the day before.

21:23

I didn't have time to tell you anything. So

21:25

here's what just happened. And I

21:27

don't ask advice of people. I just go and make a mistake

21:30

and you know, limp away. But I asked

21:32

Ian, I go, so what do you think? He

21:34

said, are you kidding? This is going to be great? And

21:37

so it took me a few days to

21:39

pack, give things away, including

21:42

that car. Quit my job

21:44

and my boss said, well, I'll give you four

21:46

dollars an hour, like you know, an incentive. I

21:48

said, I love my job. Steve.

21:51

We're still friends to this day. I said, I liked

21:53

my job. He helped me get my first department. He gave

21:55

me, He got me credit. He

21:57

called the landlords that I got this. If he screws up,

22:00

I got this. That's how I got my first department. So he

22:02

means a lot to me. Trusted me with his money. I

22:04

ran his store, his hog and does

22:07

and so I said, I gotta go. He said, no, you got

22:09

to do this. This is a shot. You're not going to get this again.

22:12

So if it craps out on you,

22:14

you can have your old job back. And I said, man, you never

22:16

know, I might be back. And

22:18

a few days later, my old band

22:21

played with Black Flag in Philadelphia and

22:23

I sang the encore with Black Flag,

22:25

and that was the handing of the baton where

22:27

Chuck went up to the micazette and here's the new singer

22:29

of Black Flag. And I went out on stage and

22:32

sang Louie Louie and like one or two others,

22:34

and everyone kind of went whatever. And the owner

22:36

of that club a few years ago sent me the set

22:38

list. Wow, he said, here's the set list where

22:41

you transitioned into Black

22:43

Flag. And I went

22:45

back to d C because I still had to, like,

22:47

you know, clean up a few things. And a couple of

22:49

days later, I was on a Greyhound bus overnight

22:52

to Detroit. I still have the bus ticket. I

22:54

take a taxi to Clutch Cargo, the

22:57

now famous punk rock venue. I beat

22:59

the band there. They're driving from some other city

23:02

and I come in with my duffel bag and

23:04

I walk in as a lady behind the bars. He

23:06

just canna help you. I said, you know I was born

23:08

play I said, yes, ma'am, And I've never said

23:11

I had never said this as a declarative sentence

23:13

to anyone in my life except this lady behind

23:15

the bar. It's like two in the afternoon. She

23:17

said, can I help you? I said, I'm

23:20

the singer in Black Flag. Like not even I thought

23:22

she's gonna go get out of here. She went,

23:25

Oh, would you like a kolke want? Yes? Please?

23:27

What was the relationship from the

23:29

beginning between Greg

23:32

and Chuck? How did that

23:34

work? Founding members? Yeah

23:37

and left side,

23:39

right side brain Dokowski

23:41

hard on sleeve, you know, tears

23:44

up during songs. He's really like just

23:46

ripped open. Greg is the

23:48

more hyper analytical. They're both

23:50

smart, different but they're utilizing

23:52

different parts of the brain and you can see it

23:55

in the lyrics. Chuck

23:57

is writing my war

24:00

other stuff was just ripped open emotionally.

24:03

Greg is coming from the more introspective.

24:05

Both of them are super effective, great

24:08

songwriters, but where

24:10

one is writing, you know, rise above Greg

24:14

American waste, which is like, let's burn

24:16

America to the ground before they kill us all,

24:18

Chuck. But when you have both

24:21

sides of the brain, left side, right

24:23

side on one record, you have this fully realized,

24:26

introspective person who's mad.

24:29

And so that's why, like those early records really

24:31

work, because all parts

24:33

of your your young, angry,

24:36

insecure palette are being addressed.

24:39

You know, you have a Hall and oats and

24:41

it worked. And later on their

24:43

relationship became antagonistic leading

24:46

and I'm not talking out of class. It's all documented,

24:49

leading for Dakowski to eventually sell

24:52

his share of SST and move on, and

24:55

so it became Greg scene. Do you know what that

24:57

was about. It's just about the combination

25:00

of Greg Ginn and Chuck Dakowski. And

25:02

if you look at the history of Greg Ginn and

25:04

everyone in Black Flag and every artist

25:07

on SST, I'm sure you know quite

25:09

a bit about this. And anyone wants

25:11

to take the merest glance onto

25:13

the internet. I'm not trying to talk out of class.

25:16

Kind of great. Plus, anyone is a

25:18

turbulent time

25:20

stamped there. It will come to an end,

25:22

like there is a use by date, and

25:25

don't stick around after Monday

25:27

when the thing is just just leave. And

25:30

so I left, and

25:32

so they were an

25:35

amazing combination. The closest

25:37

thing that I can in

25:40

my life was Bob moulding Grant

25:42

Heart of Who's Gerd Two Guys

25:44

Again. Bob Mould the introspective,

25:47

analytical Grant Heart completely ripped

25:49

open both insanely talented and

25:52

almost knocked down drag outfights with those two

25:54

back in the day because they're both you know, getting

25:56

loaded or whatever. There's this crazy young men, super

25:59

talented. But I saw Who's Grew do One? Oh,

26:01

I'm in a band like that, who

26:03

are like you know, everyone is just like snarly

26:07

at all times, and that's why those

26:10

records sound like they do like you play them

26:12

now. As a man pushing

26:14

sixty, I hear some of those songs

26:16

every once in a while somewhere and I go,

26:19

yeah, that's music you make when you're young and hungry

26:21

and really mad. I can't make

26:23

that music now because I got too much money

26:25

in the bank. I eat three meals a day and

26:28

I nothing really inconvenience,

26:30

just me, and I'm just not there anymore.

26:33

But when you're young, you're Ferrell. And

26:35

the way Black Flag lived it was a constant

26:38

like well there, let's hope

26:40

there's not the second stabbing this week at one

26:42

of our shows, and so those days

26:45

you became your environment. We'll

26:47

be right back with Henry Rollins. After a quick

26:49

break. We're

26:54

back with more from Henry Rollins. What

26:57

was the difference in the shows between the UK

26:59

and the US? Far

27:02

less antagonism in England in those

27:04

days, you know Reagan, Thatcher. It

27:07

was a bunch of people telling you to go home. And

27:09

I'm a guy who grew up in the record store. So

27:11

we're opening for the Exploited. I had

27:13

the Dudes records that was an hour's

27:15

paid a guy by that single and

27:18

his road crew would come into our dress room take

27:20

our food and there, you know, we don't want to. You know, they're

27:22

all these Scottish maniacs. They will kill you. So

27:25

like take our four bananas and

27:27

the cold ham sandwich.

27:29

So we starve. And the

27:31

singer hated us because we're from

27:33

America, and he'd go on stage and like, you

27:36

know, kill the American

27:38

wankers. And we opened for Chelsea and I had those

27:40

records too, liked them. And this singer

27:42

like, hey, hey California,

27:44

Hey mister America. I'm like, what have I done to

27:47

you? And so All these bands were

27:49

really mean to us, except The Damned in the UK subs,

27:51

but all these bands who I had records of

27:53

were just awful to us. And

27:56

there's the spitting and when you're opening

27:58

for a band, they kind of don't like you,

28:01

like when you open for the Damn the audience wants

28:03

to see one band it's not you, and

28:05

their audience was kind of nice. With the exploited

28:07

audience, they just want to beat you up. And

28:10

we're coming We're not shrinking

28:12

violets either. We're coming on with our thing, which

28:14

is pretty insane in those days. Right, you don't

28:16

like us, we don't like you either, And here it comes.

28:19

So we came back to America basically

28:21

to a hero's welcome. You know, yeay, they

28:23

already knew us. You know, you're an

28:25

American band who they already had a

28:27

built in audience. And so two

28:30

nights later, you're up in Boston doing two

28:32

sets and on BCM with

28:34

Oedipus after the show in a heated van.

28:37

It's all different. Yeah, let's talk about

28:39

the making of the first album. Sure, it's

28:42

made in autumn

28:44

of nineteen eighty one at

28:46

a place which is now a trader Joe's on Santa

28:49

Monica Boulevard, a little west of La Sienega,

28:52

and it was Unicorn Recording Studios.

28:54

Black Flag lived in the office as above. We

28:56

slept on the floor. There's

28:58

a practice room on that floor, so we'd practice there.

29:01

He'd go downstairs to their offices.

29:04

Wood paneling, plush carpuses.

29:06

Total nineteen seventies into the eighties. Studio,

29:09

tiny studio, but we didn't need much.

29:11

It was like a very bare bones environment. We

29:14

knew the songs and so we recorded

29:17

by day with Spot producing.

29:20

But here's the thing now, is everyone's dead.

29:22

We can talk about it. What Unicorn

29:24

didn't understand was we live on

29:26

top of the we're in the same building.

29:29

They go home at five pm. The owner

29:32

this reception is it's a record company

29:34

with a studio. At five pm,

29:36

everyone's out of there. The way

29:38

to get to the studio from the upstairs is

29:40

one door. You just turn that little thing

29:42

in the middle of the knob. You just leave it open.

29:45

As soon as they're gone, like

29:48

at five pm, we're like, oh, we're really

29:50

tired, and they'd leave and we'd leave at

29:52

five fifteen. We're right back

29:54

in there. Over Dub's vocals till

29:57

about seven thirty in the morning,

29:59

Open up the doors, air the place out, because

30:01

a bunch of man odor we've been in their sweating all night

30:04

singing the course of TV Party eighty times.

30:07

You air it out, turn everything thing

30:09

off, and tiptoe upstairs, sleep

30:11

for forty minutes, and come back down

30:14

having just clocked a good twelve

30:16

hours of free time. Because we can't afford

30:19

what it would really cost, and so

30:21

we would do everything at night,

30:24

like tons of overdubs, and

30:26

finish the record at night. And Unicorn

30:28

probably made plenty of us, but

30:31

we made that record on you know, by

30:33

using it at night. And who knows if they

30:35

knew or even cared, but we did

30:37

that. But we made the record very quickly

30:40

because of all the demoing and the years of

30:42

playing those songs on stage. Some of the

30:44

songs were new My TV Party was super

30:46

new, but the rest of them were

30:48

like, you know, a couple of years old, So

30:51

it wasn't like anyone had a question about him. You've

30:53

been playing them a hundred times. By

30:56

eighty three, we're playing

30:58

the songs that wouldn't be released

31:00

until eighty four. In fact, my

31:04

war slip it in all those.

31:06

We demoed those in eighty two.

31:08

That's how quick Greg and Chuck we're

31:10

writing them. So we're still doing the damage

31:13

set, but we're playing the rock stuff.

31:15

And so we started playing those songs in late eighty

31:18

two, eighty September eighty two into

31:20

eighty three, and the audiences are just like staying

31:23

there flipping us off. It's like, nope, what is

31:25

this? And by eighty four,

31:28

it's all seven minutes sludgy, slow

31:30

songs, and the audience was off two

31:32

minds, either like, man, this has never

31:34

been better, like this is the most intense, or

31:36

I hate you guys and I paid my five dollars

31:38

and fifty cents to come here and abuse the singer.

31:42

And it only became more

31:46

either with us or against

31:48

us, because every album was different.

31:50

By eighty six, this shows

31:53

the audiences were pretty angry

31:56

because they didn't like the new songs and

31:58

a lot of them they hadn't heard, and

32:00

they wanted the old ones, and they

32:03

took it out on us, like things would hit, the stage,

32:06

equipment would get abused, the PA would

32:08

get abused, the l would get abused,

32:10

the singer would get abused. And

32:12

so by the end of that In the last

32:14

tour, it was kind of a

32:17

miserable hate fest of a record

32:20

or songs that people weren't that into

32:23

lyrics. I didn't quite get

32:25

along with all that well in a band that

32:27

was incredibly unhappy.

32:29

And I'm not trying to put anyone down.

32:31

It's just, you know, people are together in a band very intensely.

32:34

It is what it is. You know, you're not You've you've been around

32:36

a few bands in your life. It's

32:38

closer than a family. It's a

32:41

bunch of crazy, creative people

32:43

all in a compressed space

32:45

doing the same thing every night, and

32:48

everything smells like somebody's

32:50

laundry, and you're like, okay, I hate

32:52

your guts, so let's go on tour. And

32:55

that's how it is. As

32:57

much as those people have made me mad over the

32:59

years, when it came down to it, I

33:01

would jump in front of anything bad

33:04

coming their way. I have to, because

33:06

they're all in that battlefield and you know, and

33:09

some of those men make me very

33:11

angry. But if

33:14

it was something bad was happening right now, I'd be

33:16

right there, like I got this hit me instead,

33:19

How did it work that you left the band? The

33:21

tour came the last show was in Detroit,

33:24

two nights at Graystone.

33:26

We finished, drove back to La

33:29

Greg said, initially, We're

33:31

going to take a year off because I'm going to reinvent

33:34

SST. Like, what's that going to be like?

33:36

Because I never understood an hour off

33:38

from that band. You were never far away. And

33:41

I went a year that might as well

33:43

be ten years. I didn't know what to do. And

33:46

I was on the East Coast visiting

33:49

you know, Ian and all these people, and I get

33:51

the phone call from Greg and

33:53

he said, oh, I quit, and

33:56

I'll never forget this. I said, it's

33:58

your band. You can't quit.

34:00

He said, well I quit.

34:02

And I hung up the phone and went,

34:05

wow, that's that. And

34:07

when you're a young guy and you go from a minimum

34:09

wage job and your first day

34:11

in LA you're in the La Times and

34:14

you're in this very intense band with a

34:16

very strong work ethos,

34:19

and everything is a big damn deal, and

34:22

all of a sudden it's over in a phone call where

34:24

the jet doesn't land. It kind of drops out of the

34:26

sky and goes into a thousand

34:28

pieces on the ground and you stagger

34:31

away from this wrecked bit of shrapnel.

34:34

You don't go oh, I'll do you like, ah,

34:37

what do I do? How do you breathe? Who

34:40

am I without Black Flag? And I'll

34:43

never forget I read somewhere like on a

34:45

fortune cookie. If one seeks

34:48

to change, one must be prepared to

34:50

seem stupid, and

34:52

you got to go try new things like okay.

34:54

And right around that time, I got an

34:58

offer to audition for

35:00

a film, and so I went

35:02

to New York and I auditioned

35:04

for this film. I have no memory of it, and

35:07

I'm like, okay, I did that. I'm going to try and act

35:09

now. And that was July

35:12

August. By October I'm in Leeds,

35:14

England making my first solo record. So

35:16

I realized, if I don't hit the ground and run,

35:19

I'm going to hit the ground and rot. And

35:21

so my old pal from Washington, d

35:23

C. Chris Haskett, he and I grew up

35:25

together. He had a really good band called the Enzymes

35:27

in DC, and he used to live in England. Chris

35:29

said, as a joke, if Black Flag ever

35:31

breaks up, like that'll happen. You and

35:33

I should make a record, And I said okay,

35:36

and I called him. He was he happened to be back in America

35:38

visiting his folks because he was living in

35:40

Leeds, England. I said, hey, Chris,

35:42

it's Henry the Eagle has landed.

35:45

I'm at I don't have a band, And he was like, I got

35:47

a band. I got this like he had been waiting,

35:50

like he knew before I did, because I have a whole

35:52

band there in Leeds. I know a studio, I got

35:54

a practice place. You're gonna live in my room and we're

35:56

gonna write songs. I'll see you in England in

35:58

like ten days. And I had

36:01

like twenty five hundred bucks to my

36:03

name. I got a standby flight

36:05

and I remember getting out of the plane. I

36:08

took a bus a coach up to Leeds

36:10

with like a backpack and

36:13

on fear of failure, tons

36:16

of tea and onion bogies.

36:18

Chris Haskett and I wrote like eighteen songs

36:20

in four days, recorded him in five

36:23

days, like two take with his rhythm

36:25

section from his surf instrumental band. And

36:27

I said, Hi, I'm Henry. I'm about to terrify you

36:29

the scariest lyrics you've ever heard, and that they

36:31

heard them like you're a scary guy. I said, you

36:33

have no idea, and so we made a

36:36

record called Hot Animal Machine and we made

36:38

this little record for no money and it's

36:40

pretty good. And so by

36:42

April of eighty seven, like

36:45

less than a year after Black Flight broke up, I'm in band

36:47

practice in Trent, New Jersey with

36:50

Andrew and sim of Greg Gin's

36:52

old instrumental band Gone, who had broken up

36:54

Chris from the Hot Eilm Machine

36:56

record, and we called it the Rawlins Band,

36:59

And almost a year to the day, we're back

37:01

in leads at the same studio we recorded

37:03

Hot Eild Machine recording Lifetime,

37:06

all new songs we wrote on the road we

37:08

were we road tested him, We played him every

37:10

night, and I since

37:13

eighty one till

37:15

the end of the Rawlins Band, I

37:17

never really kind of put

37:19

the mic down. Where is he he's writing songs?

37:21

Where is he now on tour? Where is he now making

37:24

a record? Around and round you go,

37:26

like AC DC and everyone else, trying to prove

37:28

it every night. And I did that for damn your

37:30

twenty five years, you know,

37:32

and playing more than kind

37:34

of any band I know of besides

37:37

maybe DA or like the Chili

37:39

Peppers. They go at it. They're gladiators, you know,

37:41

they lay leave for three month, three years.

37:43

You know that they're not kidding around. And we

37:46

toured. That's what Black Flag taught me. Play

37:49

every night and suddenly you know, we're rocking

37:51

and Singapore, We're playing in Moscow.

37:53

You know, I go, you guys into this, They're like, yeah, we're

37:55

playing in Bootapest hungry. Who would have thought?

37:58

And we just basically said yes to every

38:01

gig. And that's how

38:03

I toured to this day. We'll

38:05

be right back with Henry Rollins after

38:07

a quick break. We're

38:12

back with the rest of Rick's conversation with

38:14

Henry Rollins. What was the first speaking

38:18

engagement you did? Nineteen

38:20

eighty three? The Harvey

38:23

Kouberneck a great local tastemaker

38:25

producer in this town. He

38:28

used to do these shows where you get twenty

38:30

people. Everyone gets five minutes, and

38:33

Dakowski would read from his little notebooks

38:35

of doom and talk about the apocalypse or

38:38

whatever. I would go with Chuck John

38:40

Doe would go up and sing a song. Jeffrey Lee

38:42

Pierce to the Gun Club would read from five minutes of

38:44

his tour journal. It was like really fun that real

38:46

poets, performance artist, movie stars would

38:49

talk and I'd go with Chuck go into

38:51

that. We lived in the beach, we go to the big I'd go to the big

38:53

city, look at pretty women, and you know, be

38:56

in Hollywood with the real people. And

38:58

so one night Harvey came up to me at

39:00

the Loss of Club, I think, and he said, we're

39:02

doing a show next week. Chuck's on the bill. Why don't

39:05

you get on the bill. I'm like, what am I gonna

39:07

do? Say? You got a big mouth? You never shut up five

39:10

minutes, like ten bucks, I think it was. I

39:12

was like, and all I saw was the money. I was

39:14

like, ten dollars. How many almosts can I get

39:16

for ten? That's a lot of waves

39:19

rancheros. I was like, I'm just hungry all the

39:21

time. And so, you know, with sheer

39:23

hutzpah, I went on stage

39:25

the next week with some

39:28

writing folded in my ass pocket.

39:31

Read The Two Things told a story

39:33

about what had happened the day before band practice,

39:35

when a neo Nazi tried to run over

39:38

Greg with his car

39:40

as Greg was on his way to the little store

39:42

to get a thing of orange juice, which is

39:44

just Tuesday for Black Flag. The audience,

39:46

their jaws were on the ground. I said, oh, I got

39:49

my seven minutes or whatever are

39:51

up, and huge applause, and

39:53

I remember two things distinctly. One, I

39:56

don't need a band in that I have no

39:59

stage. Fright, give me another half an hour.

40:01

I got this. I love being alone with a

40:03

microphone. I could be George Carlin.

40:05

I was raised on all those records. I'm not comparing myself.

40:08

I'm saying I can get

40:10

by without a band. And

40:12

people coming up to me after it was going one's your next

40:14

show? I said, well, I'm leaving on tour. They go,

40:16

no, no, not the band. When you just talk?

40:19

I went never. I got

40:21

my ten dollar bill. Then Harvey came up to

40:23

me and he said, okay, you're

40:26

a natural, and I said whatever.

40:28

He said, how about this. I booked

40:30

half the poets on tonight's stage. I manage

40:32

them. Three of them are doing a poetry

40:35

reading at a bookstore in wherever.

40:38

Why don't you do fifteen minutes and I'll

40:41

give you twenty five dollars? Okay.

40:43

Within By the end of eighty

40:45

three beginning of eighty four, some

40:47

of those poets, much to their chagrin,

40:50

were opening for me because

40:52

I was drawing people. By the end

40:54

of Black Flag in some

40:56

major cities. I could draw

40:58

almost as many people as Black Flag

41:01

on my own and not

41:04

everyone in the band was cool

41:06

about this. And so suddenly

41:09

I'm doing radio interviews

41:11

about my writing and my speaking.

41:14

I'm on the cover of this magazine because

41:16

of spoken word, and so

41:18

I had this whole other thing. And by automn

41:22

eighty five, when the Loose Nut Black

41:24

Flag Tour came to an end, I left

41:26

almost immediately across America,

41:29

twelve to fifty people a night with

41:32

our old sound man driving the van and

41:34

doing sound for me. And we just did

41:36

a talking tour from

41:38

LA to New York and back and

41:40

it. And then by eighty five

41:43

I got invited to a poetry

41:45

festival in Holland. Sure

41:48

it's me and Linton Queezy Johnson and

41:51

who came up to me after he said righteous

41:54

mister Rollins, I said, thank you, sir. Bill

41:57

Burrows was on the bill, Jeffrey Lee Pierce,

42:00

all kinds of people, and with

42:02

the Rollins band, I finished the band

42:05

tour, we made the Lifetime record. They all went

42:07

home and I was debt to all of them. I

42:10

owed them all money. So I left on a talking

42:12

tour like three days

42:14

later, I'm doing that entire tour again.

42:17

And so I got back to La December

42:19

eighty seven and did two sold out nights

42:21

at the loss Of Club with Hubert

42:23

Selby of Last Exit to Brooklyn

42:26

Fame opening for me crazy

42:29

and so from then to now

42:31

I now do twenty one twenty two countries.

42:34

I sell out multiple knights at the Sydney

42:36

Opera House. I mean it's

42:39

crazy.

42:41

And you know, I get amazing

42:44

offers like keynote our convention.

42:47

What's the convention about software

42:50

and progress? And make a speech

42:53

about where the world needs to go in the

42:55

future. Really, Oh,

42:57

we think you're perfect for that. Okay,

43:00

and speak at this commencement. Just

43:03

get these kids out of college. I've done that a couple

43:05

of times. I don't

43:07

I take work seriously. I take dedication

43:10

seriously. But luckily I don't take myself seriously.

43:13

And so it's it's opened up this whole other

43:15

thing for me where I'm not

43:18

the guy in a band and a

43:20

lot of my peers they

43:22

go out and we're doing the first album again

43:24

twenty five years later. Okay,

43:27

I want to come along, No, no, I

43:29

don't. I'll pay money. I'll go see it but coming,

43:31

no, no, no, and

43:34

so I don't have to go out there and remember

43:36

this one kids. My dad does. And

43:39

so that's where it is now when you're almost sixty,

43:42

like you know, I see all these old

43:44

men. I know

43:46

that old guy from somewhere. Of course I'm

43:48

his age. He was at my shows. I remember

43:50

that guy. The smart thing I did is

43:52

a younger man who was

43:55

One day I woke up in my bed and

43:57

I went, I'm done with music. I

43:59

don't hate it. I just have no more lyrics. There's

44:01

no more toothpaste in the tube. I called

44:04

my manager at the time. I said I'm done with music.

44:06

And that was you know, fifteen percent of that

44:08

was a good thing for him. He's like, no,

44:11

no, I thought yes, And so

44:13

luckily I had enough, you know, movies,

44:15

voiceover, documentary work, writing

44:18

talking where that just filled

44:20

in and now I'm busier than ever. But

44:22

um, I walked away before

44:24

I had to start saying, hey, kids, remember

44:27

this one. So I didn't have to put

44:29

it on and dada and

44:31

go out there and put on the dog and

44:34

yelped for my dinner. And I've had gentle

44:36

discussions with major rock stars

44:39

who you've produced and

44:41

why you go out there and I go, you go out and you play

44:44

those same songs every night for the last forty

44:46

years. And one of these people

44:48

who I love dearly, said, yeah, that's

44:50

what people want. I go, you want to give him what they wanted? What?

44:53

Yeah, he's an older school guy, even older

44:55

than me, And he said, yeah, that you want

44:57

to make people happy. I'm like, you do Huh,

45:01

I never thought of that. That never has

45:03

occurred to me. What do you

45:05

do? I go this what I's what's

45:07

on next? He went, huh, how's

45:10

that treating you? I'm like, well, I need must

45:12

here to get home. But the

45:14

two different schools and his whole

45:16

thing is what you put on the show. Everyone

45:18

goes yay. You play what everyone wants

45:20

to hear, and everyone's happy. And

45:23

he said you're not. I'm like, no, not necessarily.

45:25

If they happen to like what I'm doing, cool, If

45:28

they don't, they can bite me. And

45:30

I'm sure in the last

45:32

few years he has sung that one, that

45:34

one, that one, and that one for the five hundred

45:37

and seventy millionth time, and

45:40

fifty thousand people went ya, that's

45:42

just not for me. The right way for any

45:44

of this stuff to go. It really is up to the person

45:47

it is and everyone's fine.

45:49

I mean, everyone's doing it their way as long as

45:51

no one's getting hurt. I used to put bands

45:53

down when I was a younger man. I had a big head full esteem.

45:55

I can't do that now. Music

45:58

and culture, you know, America is in a

46:00

very interesting time right now. I wouldn't say bad. I

46:02

would just say eventual and interesting.

46:05

It's been. We've been working towards where we are now for

46:07

quite a while. If you watch this stuff,

46:09

you're not that surprised. But as

46:11

far as culturally, I

46:13

don't know how much you voulivoo

46:17

and hobnob in La.

46:19

I don't think La has ever been cooler

46:22

since I've been living here. As far as having

46:24

an analog pulse, people you

46:26

want to actually talk to again, Clubs

46:28

you want to go to, local bands,

46:30

you want to see every time they play. Like

46:33

if I was a younger man, i'd be out more

46:35

often. I just can't do five

46:37

hours to sleep and function all the

46:39

time. I'd be out way more often because

46:41

there's so many good bands, and there's

46:44

so many great clubs being run by

46:47

thoughtful, conscientious people who love

46:49

music. I've never seen

46:51

audiences so cool. The

46:54

other nights at the Palladium for Labucherettes,

46:56

that's a band and bikini kill and

46:59

it's like sold out four nights.

47:01

It's a love fest in there. There's no fights,

47:04

no one's getting their t shirt torn off, no

47:06

one's getting groped. And these are the gigs

47:08

I see these days. I go to gigs and there's like all

47:10

these gay kids there. Everyone's cool,

47:13

like because that's nothing like the gigs

47:16

I got. You know, it was

47:18

a blender of flesh and testosterone

47:21

when I got here. And so LA's

47:23

never, in my opinion, never been a cooler

47:26

place to dig what's happening. And

47:28

so when someone gets cynical or everything

47:30

sucks, I'm like, wow, you've

47:33

just decided today sucks, because the

47:35

truth is it's really exciting

47:37

and there's a lot of things to fix. But culture

47:41

is really, I think, kind of is

47:44

answering some howling painful

47:48

moan of homophobia that homophobia

47:51

and racism and misogyny in

47:53

genders or illicits music

47:56

is going on. No, we got this, here's the news. We're going

47:58

to neutralize that with this, And

48:01

so it's a great time

48:03

to be open minded things

48:05

are better when you go to the gig. Everything's better once

48:07

you're you know, you're perforate

48:09

your can with a few holes and have to remind

48:12

myself of that a lot. You know, I will

48:14

sit alone in brood, so I

48:16

push myself out the door. Thank

48:18

you for coming in and having

48:20

a chat. Yeah, man, I hope that was though. It was really

48:22

fun to talk to you. Same thanks

48:27

to Henry Rollins for taking the time to chat with

48:29

Ray. You can hear a favorite Black Flag and

48:32

Rollins band songs by heading to Broken

48:34

Record podcast dot com. Be sure

48:36

to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

48:38

dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We're

48:40

can find all our new episodes. You

48:43

can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

48:46

Records produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason

48:48

Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric

48:50

Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with

48:53

engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive

48:55

producer is Mila Bell. Broken

48:58

Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If

49:00

you love the show and others from Pushkin Industries,

49:02

considered becoming a pushnick. Pushnick

49:05

is a podcast subscription that offers bonus

49:07

content an uninterrupted ad freeless

49:09

name for four ninety nine a month. Look

49:11

for Pushnick exclusively on Apple podcast

49:13

subscriptions. And if you like this show,

49:15

of course, please remember to share, rate, and review

49:18

us on your podcast app. At the Musics

49:20

by Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond,