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the title is easy to remember because

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for tomorrow this

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is billed for tomorrow a podcast about

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the smartest solutions are most misunderstood

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problems i'm jason cipher and in

1:19

each episode i take something that seems concerning

1:21

or confusing today and figure out where

1:23

it came from what important things were missing

1:26

and how we can create more opportunity tomorrow

1:29

nobody wants to work anymore

1:32

if you've heard anything about work

1:34

in the past year or so than that is probably

1:37

what you've heard people say

1:39

it on it v they say it on social media

1:41

they say it at the office they say it

1:43

in surveys like the one from software

1:45

company tiny paul's which found that

1:47

one in five executives agree

1:50

with the statement nobody wants to work

1:52

any more people also say it on

1:54

you tube like this finance bro

1:56

who really who really you to watches crypto

1:58

investment tips

2:00

videos really about how no one

2:02

wants to work anymore and

2:05

kim kardashians saying it

2:07

it seems like nobody wants to work

2:08

and so are business owners

2:11

like this bar owner on a fox t v affiliate

2:13

in ohio people don't want to work we

2:15

have set of interviews people don't show

2:18

and let's be clear zero is

2:21

a real problems here there is a problem

2:23

for business owners who business speak to all

2:25

the time and who struggled to operate their

2:27

businesses because they cannot feel they're open

2:29

jobs and there is and problem for workers

2:32

who are looked down upon and called lazy

2:34

and not given the opportunities they believe they deserve

2:37

this deserve this problem that impacts everyone

2:39

which means we better figure out how to solve

2:41

it the first do that we

2:44

have to agree on what the problem actually

2:46

is so how do we do that

2:49

the answer seems to be buried right

2:51

there in the phrase nobody wants to

2:53

work any more listen to a closely

2:56

nobody wants to work any more

2:58

the problem is located in the word anymore

3:02

anymore is a dividing line in time

3:04

between when people did one work and

3:06

when people do not the problem

3:08

it seems is now something

3:11

about now the pandemic

3:13

and all the came after has created a moment

3:15

where nobody wants to work which means that if we're going

3:17

to solve this problem we need to figure out how

3:19

to solve the problem of to day

3:23

wait a second before we go too far

3:25

down that path or someone else

3:27

you need to hear from

3:29

the becoming apparent that nobody

3:31

wants to work this hard time

3:34

that quote is from the year eighteen

3:36

ninety four it was written in a newspaper

3:39

called the rooks county record

3:41

and labor is scary as

3:44

ha and very unreliable

3:46

no one wants to work for wages

3:48

that is from the year nineteen

3:50

o five in the edge field advertiser

3:53

and there are many many many

3:56

more just like it people complaining that nobody

3:58

wants to work anymore in night sixteen

4:01

and in nineteen fifty two in nineteen

4:03

eighty one these they were unearthed

4:05

recently by a university of calgary instructor

4:07

named paul theory he posted a thread

4:09

of them on twitter in july and a went super

4:11

viral and then a bunch of people tagged be in the

4:13

responses because they know i love this stuff

4:16

in there right and as soon

4:18

as i saw it saw it started wondering what

4:20

was happening during all those previous times

4:22

in history when people said nobody wanted to work

4:24

anymore because maybe there's something really

4:27

valuable that we can learn from

4:29

the past to help inform our

4:31

understanding of the present so i

4:33

figured what i needed with someone who has

4:35

i dunno written a book on the

4:37

history of work are actually read

4:39

the book on history work bingo my

4:42

name is peter serves i am a university

4:44

professor of history and george mason i

4:46

asked peter if he could take a trip through

4:49

history with me explaining some of

4:51

these quotes and how they might apply to today

4:53

and he said he'd be happy to because

4:55

as he explained when we got on the phone most

4:58

of this judgment about the decline of work

5:00

the represents an oversimplification

5:02

of the past when you really dig

5:05

into the past the nature of our problem

5:07

today becomes a lot clearer by

5:09

the end of our conversation our conversation something

5:12

when someone says nobody wants to

5:14

work anymore they are speaking a

5:16

partial truth part of that

5:18

sentence is correct but it's

5:20

missing a very important part

5:22

and if we cannot identify that missing

5:24

part and speak it out loud and ticket

5:26

very seriously and we will never

5:28

solve this problem we won't

5:30

solve this for businesses and we won't solve for

5:32

workers and we won't solve it for anyone at

5:34

any time including right now so

5:37

what is that missing part it is

5:39

time to take a trip through the history of

5:41

work and discover that no matter of a decade

5:44

people really do want to work maybe

5:46

just not the way that we think growing

5:49

up after the break if you

5:51

are an entrepreneur really minded person

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all right we're back so our goal is

8:12

to understand why it seems that nobody wants

8:15

to work anymore today and why that

8:17

isn't exactly right and to

8:19

do this we're going to go back through the

8:21

history of people saying that nobody wants to work

8:23

anymore looking at specific moments

8:25

when people said it and what was going on during

8:27

their time and how it can help us better

8:29

understand today so

8:31

let's start with the earliest clipping from

8:33

that twitter thread it's the article from the

8:35

rooks county her old and eighty ninety four

8:38

which you heard a little bit of before but

8:40

now i'll give you some more context

8:42

the article describes or the mines

8:44

in mines country that are being shut down because of striking

8:47

workers and it wonders what people

8:49

will do for coal when winter comes

8:52

then the article concludes with what you

8:54

heard before

8:54

or is is becoming apparent that

8:56

nobody wants to work this hard

8:58

time

8:59

the last peter what's going on

9:02

here so the

9:04

timing is interesting there really

9:06

were some significant changes in the arrangement

9:08

of work by the later nineteenth century

9:11

we're going to go through two of these significant

9:13

changes because they set up a good understanding

9:16

of like every work conflicts

9:18

that comes after so here's significant

9:20

change number one because of union

9:23

action and legislation the length

9:25

of the work day at the turn of the century was getting

9:27

shorter it was going from twelve hours

9:29

to ten hours and then ultimately eight and

9:31

this was happening at the same time as

9:34

america was becoming more industrialized and

9:36

therefore the work that people were doing was

9:38

changing which sounds good

9:40

in theory you know less backbreaking

9:42

work on the farm and fewer hours

9:44

in the heat but in practice it

9:46

was a her transition is a traditional

9:48

work day particularly during

9:50

the summer when the sun was out the

9:53

additional workday was really long

9:56

except in harvest time he wasn't that intense

9:58

people to apps

9:59

they wanted around they saying

10:02

sometimes they drake well

10:04

modern work in this in this to

10:06

where the into the nineties or truth or rearrange

10:09

so instead of a long but somewhat

10:11

so based work day and

10:14

sleep

10:15

we now have a more intense workday

10:18

a period of non work

10:20

some sleep in this moment something

10:22

happened that has repeated itself ever

10:24

since and that is as the

10:26

nature of work changed workers

10:28

saw an opportunity to participate

10:30

in the shaping of the work they

10:33

didn't just want to be told hey here's

10:35

what work is now and here's what you'll be paid

10:37

and as if they wanted a better deal

10:39

for their hard work and that drove their decisions

10:41

about what work to do and what

10:43

work to refuse to do and you could

10:45

understand why people looked at him says gee

10:47

they just want to work anymore

10:49

there's just not correct do you think

10:52

back then the people who are saying gee

10:54

they don't want to work anymore we're probably people

10:56

who did not have to work

10:59

in the kind of grinding manual

11:01

labor as labor of our part of what's

11:03

your pick it up but it's still true today abby

11:05

se lo say this and this don't mean that to

11:08

be tested or basically said we

11:10

want we want of people who work the way we want to tell

11:12

do we don't want to work that way

11:14

we want them to and by the way good enough

11:16

a them too much now let's look at significant

11:19

change number two just

11:21

as people's work lives were shifting

11:23

so where their social lives speak

11:25

as back of the late eighteen hundreds leisure

11:27

was becoming more available

11:29

so you have professional sports

11:31

you have the beginning of the rise

11:33

of movies i'm not talk and eighty

11:35

ninety ninety hundreds you have

11:37

to rise of amusement parks i'm

11:40

on a people still didn't use those things

11:42

but obviously some people did and

11:44

people began to talk about what was

11:46

called the leisure at

11:47

though this made it easy for some

11:49

people to say gee people just want to play around

11:52

it's they don't want to work as much peter says

11:54

that this has been extensively studied

11:56

in the united states and the conclusion is clear

12:00

i did not want to work less

12:02

just because they had access to more leisure in

12:04

fact a can be argued that some people wanted

12:06

to work even more because more work

12:09

meant more money which meant more luxurious

12:11

leisure but because leisure activities

12:13

were so visible this created a perception

12:15

problem

12:16

the we'll be more gentle jet engine to leisure

12:19

than we do to work on that that causes some

12:21

confusion

12:22

which man the people looked lazy

12:24

just because they were spending the money that they

12:26

had earned through their hard work which

12:28

sounds to be a lot like people

12:30

who you know i don't know say today the kids

12:33

don't wanna work they just want to post videos on tic

12:35

toc and it's like node

12:37

their to talks are just more visible than the work that

12:39

they do okay so that covers

12:42

are basic setup that's what was happening

12:44

was happening late eighteen hundreds now let's move

12:46

on to another moment of nobody wants to

12:48

work anymore this one is a scene

12:50

from a newspaper in nineteen sixteen

12:53

back then papers were full of these like

12:55

free floating stories it's not clear who

12:57

wrote them or whether they actually happened

13:00

but they're a good indication of what people

13:02

have the time we're talking and thinking about

13:04

and this one the subtle story published

13:07

in the binghamton press was titled

13:09

nobody wants to work here's the

13:11

whole thing

13:12

what about vegetables

13:14

having been a good yes the vegetables

13:17

to deal with asked well

13:19

as near as i can find out he answered

13:21

the reason for food scarcity is

13:23

that nobody wants to work as hard

13:26

as they used yeah man

13:28

who within here the other day why she didn't

13:30

raise more livestock and make his own

13:32

but

13:33

women don't wanna make got him anymore he

13:35

said and then yeah

13:36

do you know where prices would go

13:38

with we read more cabs and pig the

13:41

made more butter they would go

13:43

way down

13:45

interesting right so i asked peter

13:47

the word now talk about how people don't want

13:49

to work as hard in agriculture so

13:52

they're they're claiming that there was a time i guess before

13:54

nineteen sixteen when people did want to work

13:56

hard in agriculture splitter also identifying

13:59

that

13:59

some of the labor force it used to be

14:02

created butter which would be women are not working

14:04

anymore so what what were they seeing

14:06

in agriculture and to i guess what

14:08

happened to the whims

14:10

okay so it was deal with both parts

14:12

of that they're both interesting and they're mostly

14:14

not the same thing okay ,

14:16

same number one and this has been true and every

14:19

industrial society there

14:21

are certain jobs once

14:23

you read his reach read his level of industrial

14:25

prosperity there are certain jobs

14:28

that people just don't want to do anymore

14:30

says absolutely true solve

14:33

most americans even when they're

14:35

unemployed even when they're relatively poor

14:37

do not want to do

14:39

harvesting work this is why

14:42

harvesting is generally done by immigrants

14:44

they are coming from countries that do not have

14:46

access to the level of industrial prosperity

14:48

that americans have and therefore these immigrants

14:51

are willing to do the work that most americans will not

14:53

this fact has repeated itself across

14:55

time and space is not

14:58

an american saying that this is and everything

15:00

sex so in this story from nineteen

15:02

sixteen when the character says

15:04

no one wants to work as hard as they

15:06

used to

15:07

what he really should have said is no

15:09

one wants to work these very difficult jobs

15:11

as much as they had to because now

15:13

they do not have to again

15:16

this this a question of hard work because people are still

15:18

working hard as a willing to work

15:20

hard it is instead a question of

15:22

better available options now

15:24

let's talk about the other thing in that stories

15:27

remember the men in the peace and they

15:29

were both clearly meant they

15:31

were complaining that women no longer

15:33

wanted to churn butter or that was creating

15:35

all sorts of problems so what

15:37

was up with all the lazy women okay so

15:41

this has been fairly extensively studied

15:44

the for the nineteenth century when america

15:46

had a primarily agricultural

15:48

economy work mostly took place

15:51

at home as a result women

15:53

were very involved in what was classified

15:55

as work but then it

15:57

does work moved out of the home

15:59

we're mostly assigned to own tasks

16:02

so in one sense third overall

16:04

changed and if you were sort

16:06

of simplistic about it and maybe the little

16:08

the such a the state you can say they're networking

16:11

site murray study

16:13

indicates that the women

16:15

who were homemaker so com

16:17

work really hard at this

16:19

because for example do you

16:22

know what it was like washing clothing

16:24

before a washing machine it

16:26

was an insane day long

16:28

process that would leave your hands are

16:30

all and when one labor

16:33

saving appliance showed up like vacuum

16:35

cleaners instead of taken the time

16:37

off the increase their cleanliness

16:40

standards so

16:41

it really was not true that women

16:43

weren't working they just want working as

16:45

does a plates and sure there were probably

16:48

a few things like butter turning it

16:50

has dissipated in that it was cheaper to buy

16:52

which is so interesting right we

16:54

have the stereotypical image of women

16:57

churning butter but let's remember they

16:59

weren't by running or tis

17:01

little butter shops they were churning butter

17:03

to feed their families but once the economy

17:06

shifted it just didn't make economic sense

17:08

for women to do that anymore butter

17:10

had become cheaper and as cleanliness

17:12

standards rose their time was consumed

17:14

more and more in the home where they were working

17:17

just as hard if not harder than

17:19

ever before but being appreciated

17:21

for it less and less so what

17:23

have we learned so far we've learned

17:26

this the nature of work is

17:28

consistently changing and will it

17:30

change happens people naturally

17:32

adjust the kind of work that they do sometimes

17:35

they are able to seek better working conditions

17:37

sometimes they are not but either way they're

17:39

new work will be compared against what a previous

17:41

generations used to do for work and the previous

17:44

generations work will be considered hard

17:46

work therefore because the new generations

17:48

work does not look like the all generations work the

17:50

new generation will be criticized for not wanting

17:52

to work anymore which isn't fair

17:54

or true but that's what it is

17:58

onward to the mulberry

17:59

those in nineteen twenty two

18:02

what is the cause of unemployment and

18:04

hard times the manufacturer

18:07

and businessmen say it is because

18:09

nobody wants to work anymore

18:12

unless they can be paid enough wages

18:15

to work half of the time

18:17

and

18:17

though half of the

18:19

time so okay

18:22

whatever that

18:23

so he really was true that

18:25

increasingly workers were not willing

18:27

to work as lawyer hours as they had

18:30

been before began to formalize

18:32

to weekend as a non formal wear a period

18:35

but they were work and harder when they

18:37

were already this was after all the period when

18:39

assembly lines were being and stuff and

18:42

the pace were just visibly speeded

18:44

up though the notion that

18:46

somehow the blue collar labor

18:49

force was getting lazy that's

18:51

not right the system was changing

18:55

their willingness to hold

18:57

out for better wages well

18:59

i mean basically for many people

19:02

do the modern work bargain was

19:04

our pretty hard at jobs

19:06

that are not entirely

19:08

the only do it if you get a little

19:10

my give me enough money to have a little

19:12

bit and your of enjoyment outside the job

19:14

and i was obviously being instrumentalized

19:16

by the by the early twentieth century

19:19

for a lot of blue collar workers it's

19:21

interesting because i feel like both what you're

19:23

describing right then in the twenties and

19:26

you know than one hundred years later in

19:28

our modern time is in a way

19:30

something of the same thing here you'd you'd said

19:32

the system was changing back then and the system

19:34

is changing now and

19:37

white i guess we see in both cases

19:39

it is essentially workers seeing

19:42

essentially system change ceiling it because

19:44

they are they are closest to it frankly

19:46

and saying well are

19:48

going to be sure that i find something

19:50

that works for me hear it and so

19:53

that require that that's going to create a kind of shift

19:55

in the jobs of people going

19:57

to take or the way that the going to take them with

19:59

then maybe others who are

20:02

not having to work as blue collar jobs just

20:04

are equating to these people don't want to work

20:06

anymore either yeah

20:08

yeah yeah one other thing that see

20:10

if you don't mind a little

20:12

bit one of the thing that's happening now is

20:14

really interesting and it's been

20:16

exacerbated or or encouraged by the pandemic

20:20

is the increasing numbers are numbered

20:22

people who are able to work at

20:24

least in part from home and this is really

20:26

interesting because it

20:28

needs some people to think well

20:30

if they're working from home they're probably not

20:32

working as hard as they would

20:34

at the office then again

20:37

here you're dealing with a systems change no

20:39

question i believe every

20:41

indication is these people working

20:43

from home or just as productive

20:46

they would have been if they've gone into the office

20:48

they may be doing it in pajamas but that's irrelevant

20:51

to this particular discussion but

20:53

it is confusing right it's

20:55

like you're seeing a new thing

20:58

through an old lands in which the only

21:00

way that you understand hard

21:02

work is if it looks like

21:05

what you've learned hard work looks like

21:07

the air and era and era and it doesn't

21:09

look like that now then you have

21:12

to assume it simply isn't hard work

21:14

not let's jump ahead

21:17

because i want to get out of these major

21:19

industrial changes in the turn of the century and just

21:21

see what you make of somebody insights

21:24

that there's not really a whole lot of contacts year but i'm

21:26

just curious what you think this person might have been sinking

21:28

so in nineteen sixty town arizona

21:30

does this quote the just as

21:32

how many say the other day that everybody

21:34

was getting killed darn ladies and

21:36

nobody wants to work anymore that's

21:39

the truth if i ever did

21:40

that by the way was from a paper

21:42

called the evergreen current so

21:45

all right what was going on the

21:47

nineteen sixties to say that nobody wanted

21:49

work anymore my guess is

21:51

that so this so this beginning to reflect

21:54

and new same

21:55

that obviously still wear this and

21:57

that is well we're very aware

22:00

that the welfare rolls are expanding

22:04

people are taken fitness

22:06

insurance unemployment insurance etc

22:09

there really wasn't available until the thirties

22:12

the you begin to have a category of people

22:14

who are welfare recipients

22:16

and as you will know cause it's

22:18

still true a lot of prejudice

22:21

developed about these people they're

22:23

goofing off their taken taxpayer money

22:26

and they're just unwilling to work every

22:29

evidence he is and again i'm not talk

22:31

about every individual every

22:33

evidence is that most of the

22:35

people who take welfare would

22:37

much prefer to work if

22:40

they were physically able to do so

22:42

he's jobs were available that were relevant

22:45

for them

22:46

there is a category of

22:48

people who at least for extended periods

22:51

of their lives do take welfare

22:53

and of course this exact issue

22:56

played out in the last few years there was a belief

22:58

that when the government started giving people money

23:00

during the pandemic it disincentivize

23:02

them to work so the calls

23:04

went out for many politicians saying cut off

23:06

the subsidies the people will get back to work

23:09

and of course now we know the result of that

23:11

i've , there were some people surely

23:13

that didn't work because of the subsidies but

23:15

when the subsidies expired the labor shortage

23:18

remained so that was not

23:20

the solution as peter was explaining

23:23

this he said something that really struck me

23:25

some people to believe there's a speech

23:27

of the people big chunk of people that

23:29

are simply freeloader that

23:32

different from the past because in the past

23:34

everybody had to work has obviously truth

23:36

that in the past we didn't have those guns welfare

23:38

systems and therefore the people

23:40

who were

23:41

riding on what is

23:44

visible as a category

23:46

i heard that and thought that's

23:48

really interesting way to look at it because

23:50

before wealthier it's not like everyone

23:53

was an able bodies and prosperous worker

23:55

so what happened to the people who

23:57

would have been on welfare before

23:59

there was well they're like people who are

24:01

sick or injured or could not work for some

24:03

reason what do they do i mean

24:05

in some cases they just wouldn't i

24:08

media would have started they would you got sick they

24:10

wouldn't die or he said they would have

24:12

begged on the street or picked through garbage

24:15

but he short no matter what the important thing to

24:17

recognizes that they would have been invisible

24:20

they would have been very easy for the average

24:22

working person to ignore then

24:24

when welfare began the system made these

24:27

people visible and once they were visible

24:29

they were labeled not as people who needed help

24:31

but as people who didn't want to work

24:34

anymore

24:35

right

24:36

now it's time to get into are more modern

24:39

version of this conversation we're gonna look

24:41

at why kids these days suppose we

24:43

don't want to work hard what happened when

24:45

we all started working on computers and

24:47

what this can all ultimately tell us

24:49

about how to solve our problem now

24:52

i've also got a really awesome

24:54

hand intimate insight into what that

24:56

conversation is looking like in an industry

24:59

that has been super hard hit

25:01

with labour shortages today so

25:03

that and more is coming up

25:05

after the break

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okay we're back so it's time to skip

26:24

a few decades we're going to land in nineteen

26:26

eighty one where we find this complaint

26:29

printed in the miami herald i hired

26:31

two boys

26:32

cleared the rocks off the land this week

26:35

but they just fooled around they didn't

26:37

want to work

26:39

anymore so

26:41

you don't have been complaining the kids don't want

26:43

to work hard as far as you know

26:45

ever since people started having kids okay

26:49

, there's a theme here that a new

26:52

new don't know what's happening since i retired

26:55

but beyond the obvious pure says there

26:58

are actually are few interesting things

27:00

to know here because the expectations

27:02

we have for children have drastically changed

27:04

in the last century and last half child labor

27:06

laws began being passed and eighteen forties

27:09

though they weren't well and forth for and while

27:11

but by the late nineteenth century and

27:13

especially after nineteen sixteen the amount of child

27:15

labor really went down then people

27:17

believed that the basic purpose of childhood

27:20

is to go to school instead of go to

27:22

work and that can be confusing

27:25

to everybody because some

27:27

while school involves work it's not

27:29

the same kind of work is not

27:31

as visible it's not productive in the

27:33

short run

27:34

so kids started to get this reputation

27:36

as being lazy because we were asking

27:39

them to do more work that we don't count

27:41

as work and as you're

27:43

about to see the situation becomes

27:45

really given take the we

27:48

give them more of one kind of work we take

27:50

another kind away and then we just gotta keep

27:52

judging them for example the amount of chores

27:54

that kids do at home has steadily declined

27:57

since the nineteen twenties now part

28:00

because there aren't as many things

28:02

that kids can do in the home when

28:05

i was a kid and i'm obviously older

28:08

one ensure that was pretty common

28:10

was you helped take ashes

28:12

out of the furnace but we don't do that anymore

28:14

because we don't have as isn't the first it

28:16

is also all sorts of other things that they don't have to do

28:18

anymore for example kids used to take care

28:20

of their younger siblings but smaller families

28:23

means a smaller age differential between oldest

28:25

and youngest which is why for example it

28:27

is totally unrealistic for me to

28:30

expect my seven year old to take care of my three year

28:32

old and also kids used to

28:34

wash dishes more but now we have a dishwasher

28:36

for that and also teenagers

28:39

now take fewer low paying part time

28:41

and summer jobs today than they did before

28:43

a vote that's at least in part because those jobs

28:46

which were once held by teenagers have been steadily

28:48

and increasingly held by full grown

28:51

adults so did we turn

28:53

kids into spoiled brats know

28:55

because as traditional children's ware activities

28:57

declined we increase their demands in other areas

29:00

kids are expected to work harder at school that

29:02

he did fifty years ago there's a greater emphasis

29:05

on getting into college which means high academic

29:07

standards which means more time and stress

29:09

associated with school work we'll so pile

29:11

on tons of extracurricular activities which

29:13

means asking your kids to constantly learn

29:16

and refine and perform new skills and

29:18

volunteering among kids has also gone

29:21

though the difficulty of measurement

29:23

here is it's not necessarily

29:25

true the kids are willing to work close hard

29:28

they're not work and at the same sex

29:30

and yet some people will always equate

29:33

that too

29:34

nobody wants to work anymore

29:36

right let's jump another decade ahead

29:39

to nineteen ninety nine where this

29:41

complaint from the st petersburg times

29:43

really puts everything we've talked about into stark

29:45

relief nobody wants to work

29:47

anymore see

29:48

say and they all wanna

29:50

work in front of a computer and

29:52

make lots of money

29:55

which held so funny now but also

29:57

of course they say that ninety nine

29:59

nine i know lots of people who

30:02

work very very hard myself included a

30:04

but spend the majority of our time in front of a computer

30:07

so i will grant that that

30:09

is i'm physically easier than

30:11

manual labor but i it it it doesn't

30:13

mean that people aren't working hard what do you make

30:16

look i'm a duty basically set correctly

30:19

again is a situation where work

30:21

technology changes which means

30:23

that people who were accustomed to an

30:25

owner method of doing things a little

30:27

trouble interpreting of there's

30:29

every indication and you know this party

30:32

or application very own experience people

30:34

who work on computers end up frequently

30:37

working very stressful a one

30:39

of the you know one of the laments about

30:41

computers is that

30:43

they're so ubiquitous that you end

30:46

up working pretty much all the time and

30:48

oh yeah i know that very well i

30:50

hope you're enjoying this podcast for example

30:52

because i finished the editing for this script

30:54

at eleven pm the night before i recorded it

30:57

anyway once you get past the computer complaints

30:59

of ninety ninety nine complete start

31:01

to sound pretty identical to to days

31:04

so now that we've heard decades

31:06

worth of the stuff and he gets his it's

31:08

time to step back and ponder something

31:10

a little philosophical is

31:12

, a way to understand the

31:14

very nature of hard work

31:17

work is that are tractable

31:19

things can we say yes the

31:22

people of nineteen twenty two and the people

31:24

of twenty twenty two did different

31:26

works but the measurement of their hard

31:28

working this was the was so

31:31

i ask peter what do we actually

31:33

know about people's devotion over

31:35

time to the very concept of

31:37

work

31:38

that he said okay interesting

31:40

question several several

31:42

responses the first point

31:45

is most people never

31:47

bought into the middle class working was

31:50

this is classic nineteenth century stuff

31:52

for benjamin franklin stuff you

31:54

know if you work hard work

31:56

will be it's own reward you will automatically

31:58

make your fortune

31:59

this is a way to organize you

32:02

americans got this more extensively

32:04

than most people did and we still

32:06

have more this funny strong

32:09

remnants of the work ethic scenario

32:11

been a student we really do and

32:14

this may be good maybe bad as she's just

32:16

as just true

32:17

okay but

32:18

this work ethic was never shared

32:20

by the all of society

32:22

and to be clear that is not

32:25

to say that people are lazy it's it's

32:27

just to say that they did not buy into the

32:29

narrative that work by itself

32:31

in the abstract is a seal mint

32:33

of purpose i mean some people

32:35

do i for example very much to

32:37

find myself by my work and maybe

32:39

you do too but i also have

32:42

the great fortune of doing work that i love and

32:44

that i have a lot of control over and that

32:46

provides me and my family with a comfortable life

32:49

not everyone can see that i mean just

32:51

listen to how judgmental this could be

32:53

here is a complete printed in the ventura

32:56

county star in two thousand and six

32:59

i can't believe the padlock i

33:01

have had into ryan to find

33:03

someone to do some needed home improvement

33:06

it almost seems like nobody wants to work

33:08

anymore and when i do they take

33:10

no pride in what they do

33:12

consider who is writing this it

33:15

is at the very least someone

33:17

who does not do home improvements themselves

33:19

and yet cannot understand why someone doesn't

33:21

take the pride and patching the holes in

33:23

this person's walls for a small amount of money but

33:26

also the writer here isn't stopping to

33:28

understand the person they want to hire who frankly

33:30

may take quite a lot of pride in their works

33:33

but who has a very good reason to not

33:35

show up and patch this person's walls because

33:37

first of all you've had decades of messaging

33:40

about how college is the path to upward mobility

33:42

which is led to a decline in people attending

33:44

trade schools which has created a nationwide shortage

33:47

of skilled trades people according to the

33:49

staffing company a deco for example

33:51

sixty two percent of firms are

33:53

now struggling to fill these trade rules which

33:56

means that the people who are doing this work are

33:58

inundated with large it better paying

34:00

projects which we there just isn't that

34:02

much of a marketplace for people to do small

34:05

odd jobs for random amounts of money to

34:07

help people who bitch about it in the local paper

34:09

nobody wants to work anymore oh stuff that

34:12

crap and assholes in your wall because they

34:14

are working not for

34:16

you how do these

34:18

workers feel about that work this

34:21

that's up to them like leader said they probably

34:23

don't buy into the idea that work by itself

34:25

is a virtue because most people don't buy into

34:27

that bad off but that's okay doesn't

34:29

mean they're lazy it is means they work hard

34:32

and for and fulfillment elsewhere which brings

34:34

us to the second point the peter wanted

34:36

to make about tracking hard work

34:38

overtime

34:39

the notion that work should be the whole

34:41

our life the is harder

34:44

to sustain today than it was

34:46

a century and a half ago speakers

34:48

we have this leisure component we talked about

34:51

though almost nobody

34:53

would say i'm gonna work

34:55

all the time that is the only thing i want to do

34:59

because the money other things we now viewed

35:01

as unhealthy we do isn't

35:03

that funny we talk about work life balance

35:05

is self care for ourselves and yet we also

35:07

do not make room for older people

35:10

to have a work life balance and enjoy some self

35:12

care which really brings us

35:14

back to today so i know

35:16

where's my you to finance broke his videos

35:18

really about how no one wants

35:20

to work anymore and this podcast

35:23

is about how done that is so

35:25

what's going on today wealth it's simply

35:27

the latest version of what happened over

35:30

and over and over again in everything

35:32

we covered something created

35:34

a shift in the way we work in this case the

35:36

pandemic that new ideas of a where

35:38

and how work should happen and also exacerbated

35:41

existing tensions about the kinds of work that people

35:43

were willing to do and pay they were willing

35:45

to accept and yes people

35:47

left the workforce but they didn't disappear

35:50

spear says they just re entered the workforce

35:52

in different places and in different ways

35:54

so i don't mean nobody is decided

35:57

well i'm just gonna baggott but collectively

35:59

that's just not happening what is happening

36:02

is really i think rather different and that

36:04

is people are saying there are certain

36:06

jobs situations that i would

36:09

rather not have to tolerate

36:11

and i'm gonna not that i don't want to work

36:13

i'm gonna look for work that's more

36:15

congenial

36:16

the either because the is better on the situation

36:19

is better and yes that's creating

36:21

some challenges as industries adjust

36:23

to do expectations but that's a pretty

36:26

useful conversation to have and

36:28

if you want to hear with that conversation sounds like

36:30

in real time well this

36:32

is pretty amazing actually i was recently

36:34

talking to a guy named matt who

36:37

is the ceo of a company called america's

36:39

best restaurants it's restaurants marketing

36:41

company that helps independent restaurants tell

36:44

their stories and grow their sales we

36:46

work with hundreds or extras nationwide and

36:48

men nationwide were talking about the labor shortage

36:50

which is shortage big seeing impacting his clients

36:53

right now it's really hard for them to hire

36:55

and retained good people which means that they can't

36:57

operate they restaurant operate full capacity said

37:00

because that is in the business of helping restaurants

37:02

you would think that he would say yeah this is

37:04

terrible nobody wants to work anymore

37:06

these lazy people but that

37:09

is not what he's saying to his clients instead

37:12

he saying this is it saying day a lot of restaurants

37:14

offer crappy job

37:17

and he's trying to get to their faces to

37:19

i had this exact conversation about four months

37:21

go with a guy that customer and a friend that

37:23

he was haven't labor shortage problem as i said

37:25

the bomb would take a shag you wouldn't

37:27

heavy late as as big a labour short

37:30

problems because everybody adam you are never

37:32

as big a problem right now

37:33

if number one you had created and

37:35

inviting atmosphere that people are attracted

37:38

to which is to say the guys restaurant

37:40

just wasn't a nice place to work

37:42

the other poor that is actually make and where people

37:44

can have a career as to do

37:46

you've been trying to find

37:48

eight nine ten dollar our people like

37:50

it's not a career like you've had a bunch of

37:52

stopgap like those like university

37:54

of cincinnati

37:56

lol because

37:57

that every time they get a good football coast to coast

37:59

leafs

38:00

gather doesn't am waiting there's

38:02

no you wherever the big universe is because

38:04

you see a stopgap for football

38:06

it it doesn't have to be that way

38:09

it again i want to be super clear matt is not

38:12

the guy sitting around saying screw the

38:14

owner of this restaurant he loves the

38:16

owner of this restaurant he is a champion of

38:18

restaurant owners but he also knows

38:20

that when you pay people more and give them

38:22

a better place works they stick around longer

38:25

which actually saves the restaurant owner money

38:27

because now the restaurant doesn't have to recruit

38:29

and train new people as often

38:31

which makes the whole operation more efficient this

38:34

, the shift that we're seeing it's not

38:36

that people don't wanna work anymore

38:39

it's that we're having a conversation

38:41

and this is a continuation of a conversation

38:43

that we've been having for a very long time

38:45

literally since the creation of newark as

38:47

we know it and i am sure we'll keep having

38:49

this conversation for as long as work exists

38:52

because is not perfect and

38:54

not everyone agrees not what works and

38:56

look like and some people see work

38:58

as a core part of their lives and other people see

39:00

work as a means to a end and that's all fine

39:03

all of it's because what we must remember

39:05

is that no matter the change in no

39:07

matter the time the one saying that his

39:09

remained consistent his remained people work

39:12

hard and they do it even when

39:14

they're being accused of not wanting to work

39:16

anymore at the beginning of this

39:18

episode i said that the phrase

39:20

nobody wants to work anymore contained

39:22

a partial truth that said

39:24

it was missing apart and will

39:26

we could finally speak that part out

39:28

loud and take it seriously we'd be

39:31

able to start solving some real problems

39:35

what is it what is that part you

39:38

probably know the answer by now but i'll

39:40

just stayed it plainly to be sure it

39:42

is not true to say that nobody

39:44

wants to work anymore so what we need

39:46

to do is add the phrase the way

39:48

they once felt they had to so

39:50

let's put it altogether nobody wants to

39:52

work the way they once felt they had to

39:55

anymore and that is a perfectly

39:57

reasonable thing to say it's it is a problem

40:00

solving and the closer we get to

40:02

solving it the more we can all accomplished

40:05

let's get

40:08

to hard work and

40:10

that's our episode but hey we

40:13

have talked a lot about defining

40:15

the problem with work today but

40:17

what does it actually looks like to solve

40:19

that problem on a very human

40:21

level i have one heartwarming

40:24

story of a restaurant owner who did it for one

40:26

of his best employees which i will share in a moment

40:29

but , if you love build

40:31

for tomorrow the podcast you're listening to to right

40:33

now then you will totally love builds for

40:35

tomorrow the book eat is written for

40:37

anyone going through a big change in

40:39

their life or work and it will help

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and then help you maximize

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it because big things are waiting as

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long as you're able to see them the

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book combines the smartest insights from

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this podcast with the smartest lessons

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that i have learned from entrepreneurs of today you can

40:57

get your copy now just go

40:59

anywhere that sells books or if for

41:01

some reason you're drawing a blank and you can't think of a place that

41:03

sells books then go to jason pfeiffer

41:05

dot com book and

41:08

if you want even more advice and encouragement

41:10

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41:12

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41:14

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com you can also get in touch with be directly

41:18

at my website jason dot com

41:20

or follow me on twitter or instagram

41:23

i am at have viper this

41:25

episode was reported by me jason favor

41:27

with help from emily homes the voice you

41:29

heard reading all of our historical complaints

41:31

was jailed mora you can find her

41:34

at gm more a dot com sound

41:36

editing by alex bayless or theme music

41:38

is by cast of baby pants learn [unk] navy

41:40

pants music dot com thanks to adam

41:42

cycle it's poor production health and again

41:44

major kudos to paul theory of

41:46

the university paul calgary who originally

41:48

found and tweeted all those historical quotes

41:51

thanks also historical troy petrie for tweeting

41:53

the attributions this show is supported

41:55

in part by the stand together trust the stand

41:58

together trust believes that advances in [unk] ecology

42:00

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political science and philosophy are encouraged

42:20

to learn more about their partnership criteria visit

42:22

stand together trust dot

42:24

cork cari now

42:27

as promised let's worms some horns

42:29

when i talked with matt plop of america's best

42:32

restaurants he told me this great story

42:34

of a restaurant owner the he'd met the guy

42:36

had a great employee who abruptly put

42:38

in his two weeks notice sent and the owner

42:40

just couldn't figure out why

42:42

today i'm curious when you're great worker here

42:44

we we value i feel like you enjoy

42:46

your job are you leaving said

42:48

well the the route change

42:50

the bosses and the bus no longer comes here at will

42:52

have car

42:53

right

42:55

the me like you been working like seventy year

42:57

like i don't i take the bus or i walk

42:59

i just can't do anymore anything

43:01

i want you to say here the have a license

43:03

yeah i'll buy your car

43:06

they were gonna be car i was blown

43:08

away because like that right there like if he

43:10

would have just taken the two weeks okay cool

43:12

see a so yes question i

43:14

think that to me

43:16

we're same off air we are talk as i

43:18

say

43:18

the pandemic shined a light

43:21

that a lot to read the people are out there to work

43:24

now can every employer by

43:26

every employee a car know

43:28

of course not but can everyone sink

43:30

more about how to invest in their best talent

43:33

because that investment will pay off for everyone

43:35

yes