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This series we welcomed Mike

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from Living Metal Games to

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talk about their new game,

1:02

Crucible of Aether, a mystical

1:04

industrial TTRPG. In today's

1:06

episode we finished our discussion series

1:08

and get to some fan fix

1:10

that we truly knocked out of

1:12

the park. But before we get

1:15

to that, here's what to expect in

1:17

our calls to action. You could join

1:19

me here after the show to

1:21

hear about a deal we are

1:23

running for 20% off on our

1:26

Patreon for the first month using

1:28

code C3 thanks. That's all one

1:30

word and the number three. It's

1:32

going from now until December 8th

1:34

in the spirit of Thanksgiving.

1:37

We'll also have one last

1:39

bit of information about

1:42

the crucible of aether

1:44

Kickstarter. a quick update about

1:46

our patron and then our

1:48

normal patron thank yous and

1:50

other information and how you

1:53

can best support the show.

1:55

With all of that out of the way,

1:57

enjoy the show everyone. last

2:33

episode of Character Creation cast. We

2:35

learned a bit more about Mike

2:37

before diving into some great discussion

2:40

about the character sheets and how

2:42

the games to accept other games,

2:44

including a great discussion about Crunch

2:46

in games, as well as how

2:48

many times stories in this game

2:50

result in worker revolutions. We're picking

2:53

up right where we left off

2:55

last time. Enjoy. One of my

2:57

favorite questions when we have designers

2:59

and whatnot on the show is

3:01

what do you think is one

3:03

of the biggest flaws of character

3:06

creation in this system and what

3:08

is one of your favorite parts?

3:10

So I think one of the

3:12

flaws might be sort of as

3:14

much as I said I liked

3:16

it earlier. The ways that the

3:19

choices factor into who the character

3:21

finally is, that everybody who has

3:23

the raised by factory workers background

3:25

is going to have similar skill

3:27

totals. And there's a little bit

3:29

of attention there between telling somebody

3:32

who has an individual story and

3:34

who has that background that mechanically

3:36

makes them stand out from somebody

3:38

else who has that background. And

3:40

we've talked internally about ways to.

3:42

You know ameliorate that whether that's

3:45

you know you have more skilled

3:47

ranks to choose from you have

3:49

different Equipment to choose from but

3:51

that's also kind of one of

3:53

the things that we want feedback

3:55

about about our our character creation

3:58

beta is how Much you know

4:00

how do you like the choices

4:02

that you have right now what

4:04

other choices might you prefer to

4:06

have? And, you know, do you

4:08

feel like you're able to create

4:11

a character who feels unique, who

4:13

feels like they have a story

4:15

to tell, you know, without bogging

4:17

people down with choosing, you know,

4:19

40 different skill ranks or, you

4:21

know, a point by on the

4:24

skill ranks or something like that,

4:26

which the system absolutely could support,

4:28

but that would just be begging

4:30

for analysis paralysis from somebody trying

4:32

to make a character. Yeah, so

4:34

now I notice like when Ryan

4:37

did his move was your career

4:39

or something that you have was

4:41

like plus two additional skills or

4:43

something like that. That was my

4:45

background the raised by a tradesman.

4:47

So like it let you choose

4:50

two of the skills from the

4:52

labor category outside of cooking and

4:54

taming that that you get. your

4:56

good skill percentage in. And I

4:58

thought that was really interesting. And

5:00

then you could definitely go through

5:03

and pick based on two, like

5:05

where did you put your attributes?

5:07

Like what numbers did you put

5:09

in which attributes and stuff too?

5:11

Because I know like I didn't

5:13

have any of those like extra

5:16

sort of pick yours kind of

5:18

things in mind. Yeah. That sort

5:20

of thing is varied by background.

5:22

It's been a case-by-case basis for

5:24

us to decide, okay, we feel

5:26

like this one should have choices

5:29

between these things. And it's, it's,

5:31

again, a question that we're, we're

5:33

actively going back and forth on

5:35

about how much more of those

5:37

sort of choices to give people

5:39

when we also don't want to

5:42

bog people down in character creation

5:44

because we, we, we made a

5:46

good game and we want people

5:48

to get to the point where

5:50

you actually get. to sit down

5:52

and do it. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

5:55

And you know, to what extent

5:57

choosing between five or 10 of

5:59

a particular skill rank is gonna

6:01

matter once dice hit the table

6:03

and people start ranking things up.

6:05

And your characters really start to

6:08

grow. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I

6:10

do feel like at this point,

6:12

at least with like what I

6:14

made. Because again, like I said,

6:16

I didn't have those separate choices

6:18

the way Ryan did, but I

6:21

also think, you know, when I

6:23

picked that like, like, like, like,

6:25

barber surgeon thing and say well

6:27

like if you went to medical

6:29

school you would learn medicine right

6:31

like those would be the things

6:34

that you know like it would

6:36

be a pretty standard education that

6:38

way right so like that makes

6:40

sense that I don't have a

6:42

lot outside of that because it's

6:44

like but they're not gonna also

6:47

teach you cooking unless you were

6:49

like really low on gen ed's

6:51

or something I don't know you

6:53

know so like I feel like

6:55

for mine it made sense because

6:57

it's like it was I think

7:00

it was an apprenticesrenticeship is that

7:02

what sort of character type did

7:04

you pick and like where did

7:06

that put your start skills? I

7:08

guess that you would get those

7:10

same kind of skills and then

7:13

you know depending on what you're

7:15

doing be different and then but

7:17

like I said I think characters

7:19

would still come out differently too

7:21

depending on what kind of stat

7:23

array did you pick? You know

7:26

what sort of character type did

7:28

you pick and like where did

7:30

that put your start skills and

7:32

all of that kind of stuff

7:34

that I think there are enough

7:36

different pieces. Like if somebody went

7:39

down the line and picked the

7:41

exact same thing as you every

7:43

step of the way, you'd end

7:45

up with the same character. But

7:47

I think being that there are

7:49

multiple steps, the likelihood of that

7:52

gets lower and lower. Right. Yeah.

7:54

And then those traits thrown in

7:56

really adds an extra level of

7:58

depth to your character because like,

8:00

especially the fact that they're optional.

8:02

And you can do both mental

8:05

and physical traits if you want,

8:07

or one or the other, or

8:09

none, that really helps kind of

8:11

balance out of care. or personality-wise

8:13

as well. Well, and I also

8:15

think when we go back to

8:18

that whole, like, you know, difficulties

8:20

based on role-playing and things like

8:22

that, like, I am the kind

8:24

of person that I, again, could

8:26

make a fighter and everything, but

8:28

I would still be Amelia at

8:31

the table, and so would still

8:33

be trying to talk my way

8:35

out of things. Now, did I

8:37

build stats that made that a

8:39

good choice for me? Maybe not.

8:41

You know, so then you still

8:44

also have the player. going forward,

8:46

making their choices as a player,

8:48

how to play that character. And

8:50

I think even if you went

8:52

through and picked all of the

8:54

same things and then sat those

8:57

two people down at a table

8:59

in a few sessions, they would

9:01

look different. Oh yeah. And the

9:03

dice tell a story too. Right.

9:05

Yeah. And you know, your successes

9:07

and failures are going to shape

9:10

your character as well. Yeah. Absolutely.

9:12

So what is your favorite part?

9:14

Might be it's a very specific

9:16

thing. It's the interplay of origin

9:18

home nation and background choices Because

9:20

we wanted to tell a very

9:23

particular story about the setting which

9:25

you're talking about availability, talking about

9:27

availability, and access to power That

9:29

I think we've gotten across here

9:31

that that sort of grounds people

9:33

in the world and grounds people

9:36

into thinking about what is where

9:38

in the world and what they're

9:40

moving towards in the world or

9:42

maybe restricted from in the world.

9:44

Well yeah because I think when

9:46

we got to those backgrounds there

9:49

were certain things that you couldn't

9:51

take if you were from a

9:53

certain place you know that you

9:55

could only get access to this

9:57

nobility if you were this kind

9:59

of person from this kind of

10:02

place this you know and so

10:04

that certainly does like I think

10:06

right right at the beginning, demonstrate

10:08

that there are going to be

10:10

some kind of class and, you

10:12

know, societal issues there. Like you

10:15

can't be nobility because you didn't

10:17

make the right choices in where

10:19

you were born. Like, you know,

10:21

like, too bad, idiot. Yeah, didn't

10:23

get born with a silver spoon

10:25

in your mouth. Too bad. Can't

10:28

have the silver spoon. Yeah. Which,

10:30

you know, I think is always

10:32

interesting when, you know, like the.

10:34

The mechanics even as you're making

10:36

those very early choices sort of

10:38

illustrate some of that stuff that

10:41

it's like, oh, certain things are

10:43

closed off to you. It's like,

10:45

oh, that's going to be a

10:47

theme here. Yeah, yeah, that's really

10:49

interesting. And and also trying to

10:51

figure out the way to get

10:54

that matrix of choices across to

10:56

to the player in creating a

10:58

character has been a lot of

11:00

iteration on the back end for

11:02

us to try and talk through

11:04

and represent it visually represented in

11:07

terms of rule text and flavor

11:09

text in a way that helps

11:11

get it across with the least

11:13

amount of mental load. Yeah. I

11:15

will say I think your little

11:17

like matrix chart like one page

11:20

thing was like okay if I

11:22

cross this you know like background

11:24

and where I'm from and you

11:26

know so like it says all

11:28

okay I can take that one

11:30

that's great anybody can have that's

11:33

great yeah it gets a little

11:35

bit more complicated when you're looking

11:37

at 16 nations in the full

11:39

game and I believe it's like

11:41

45 backgrounds Okay, so then we're

11:43

starting to get down to that

11:46

size 10 font situation. Exactly, exactly.

11:48

So we're talking about like the

11:50

choices that people are forced to

11:52

make as they're translating a game

11:54

into an actual physical rule book

11:56

and it's like there's only so

11:59

much space on a page. If

12:01

you want to tell a story

12:03

in a certain number of pages,

12:05

you've got to make choices, whether

12:07

it's readability talking about a small

12:09

size font or you know. killing

12:12

your darlings of what's actually in

12:14

the tax. But yeah, the full

12:16

game has a whole lot more

12:18

than is in even this beta.

12:20

And you know, there's a couple

12:22

dozen more careers. There's 63 in

12:25

the full game, 45 or so

12:27

backgrounds. All the traits that are

12:29

in the game are in there.

12:31

And then another six nations that

12:33

we haven't touched on here. And

12:35

it's just there is a. whole

12:38

huge world that we've made that

12:40

we really are excited to have

12:42

people explore and explore through character

12:44

creation because that's that's part of

12:46

it is is you're physically making

12:48

someone in the world who has

12:51

a place they're born how they

12:53

were raised things like that yeah

12:55

I really really interested in like

12:57

sort of not repeatability it's not

12:59

the right word but like You

13:01

know like if I sat down

13:04

and played this character like in

13:06

a one shot and then I

13:08

went back to make another character

13:10

like what those choices would look

13:12

like for me. Someone who's like

13:14

now okay now I'm more familiar

13:17

with what the world looks like

13:19

with what you know like what

13:21

the impacts of the choices that

13:23

I've made here you know what

13:25

and and feedback from people about

13:27

those kinds of things like hey

13:30

I tried this and then I

13:32

tried this other thing and. you

13:34

know because they said we're going

13:36

into blind and it is harder

13:38

sometimes with those games that have

13:40

like a very established world and

13:43

lore and things when we don't

13:45

know the whole you know the

13:47

full impacts of the choices I've

13:49

made necessarily yeah yeah absolutely but

13:51

it's really cool if you're if

13:53

you're playing a full campaign of

13:56

this or an ongoing campaign as

13:58

some groups are wanting to do

14:00

Last box in the sheet that

14:02

this character is dead and now

14:04

you have to create a new

14:06

character You've got all of that

14:09

meta knowledge of the world that

14:11

you're bringing to the character creation

14:13

of your new character and you

14:15

could pull on some of those

14:17

threads very easy like what if

14:19

my character was actually from this

14:22

place and that's that place has

14:24

like huge implications in our group's

14:26

story in X Y or Z

14:28

sort of way and that's that's

14:30

a really cool like way to

14:32

approach character creation is not just

14:35

what gives me the good mechanics

14:37

but like how will that alter

14:39

the actual ongoing story that my

14:41

group is working towards. Yeah, yeah,

14:43

yeah. And we've also got a

14:45

system for higher level starts of

14:48

the game where it's you say

14:50

GM wants to start a campaign

14:52

at level five. You would choose

14:54

five little packets of sort of

14:56

story-based skill ranks like served in

14:58

the army. You would get some

15:01

one-handed, some blocks, some athletics. worked

15:03

in a kitchen, you would get

15:05

some commands, some cooking, some agriculture.

15:07

All of that sort of stuff,

15:09

and then also maybe you would

15:11

get, you would unlock the chef

15:14

career, or you would unlock the

15:16

cell sort career, or something like

15:18

that, along with that little packet,

15:20

so that not every campaign is

15:22

starting at level one with fresh

15:24

characters, and you can tell a

15:27

different story than just that level

15:29

one start. I like that. I

15:31

like having those like sort of

15:33

package little, you know, because I've

15:35

had it too where like I've

15:37

had like manually level of character

15:40

up like, be like, okay, so

15:42

if we did skills and especially

15:44

in a game like this and

15:46

we thought about that where like

15:48

you get your XP from doing

15:50

things, it does make it a

15:53

little harder to start at level

15:55

five right at the beginning. Exactly.

15:57

So it's not quite a life

15:59

path thing, but it is the

16:01

idea that you are able to

16:03

tell. you are able to jump

16:06

into someone's story a little bit

16:08

later as a character. You're just

16:10

like filled out the background more

16:12

is a yes yeah yeah yeah

16:14

yeah you built a stronger backstory.

16:16

Yes. Yeah. And it's a mechanical

16:19

backstory. Like if you are, you're

16:21

starting level one as a character

16:23

who has a mechanically represented backstory.

16:25

You were born in a place,

16:27

you were raised away. You're starting

16:29

with momentum already. Absolutely. All right,

16:32

Ryan, you ready for your favorite

16:34

segment? This is what we call

16:36

our fan fix section where we

16:38

talk about what would happen if

16:40

we did for some reason play

16:42

this game How do we think

16:45

our story would go? I'm curious

16:47

like what a bird blacksmith and

16:49

a physician and a monster tracker

16:51

Have to yeah have to do

16:53

with each other. What do we

16:55

do? How did we become a

16:58

group of people that actually? tolerates

17:00

one another's company and is working

17:02

towards similar and further more yeah

17:04

what is that goals that these

17:06

three people would have in common

17:08

yeah I mean as a GM

17:11

I like building sandboxes and then

17:13

destroying said sandboxes so I like

17:15

the idea of like you build

17:17

a sandbox and then you put

17:19

a hose at one end and

17:21

you just turn it on and

17:24

then That is the campaign. Yeah.

17:26

Yeah. Sort of pose a question

17:28

to the party and it's how

17:30

they answer it is what the

17:32

story is. And I like the

17:34

idea of, you know, all of

17:37

our characters are in some way

17:39

community oriented. You know, a physician,

17:41

a blacksmith, doing things for the

17:43

community. My guy is a monster

17:45

hunter. He hunts monsters for the

17:48

community. Like he doesn't hunt them,

17:50

you know, for sports or anything

17:52

like that. It's definitely a civic

17:54

service. So a threat to a

17:56

community that they're all part of.

17:58

would be an interesting adventure hook.

18:01

Yeah. I mean I also feel

18:03

like your your character could very

18:05

easily be sort of like a

18:07

linchpin between like if you're out

18:09

doing like monster hunting you obviously

18:11

need supplies you can get those

18:14

from the blacksmith you need those

18:16

weapons like you've probably encountered a

18:18

monster once or twice and need

18:20

the services of a physician you

18:22

know like that I think easily

18:24

is enough to like to hide

18:27

those people together just on like

18:29

a very basic level of like

18:31

okay you know. How did we

18:33

all mean? Right, right. Well, yeah,

18:35

I mean, and I imagine a

18:37

blacksmith can probably make some kind

18:40

of, you know, medical instruments or,

18:42

you know, get like the best

18:44

tweezers in town. And you know

18:46

what? Quality of equipment is a

18:48

thing. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. No rusty

18:50

knives over here. Yeah. Only the

18:53

best sharpest knives. I'm pretty certain

18:55

that Maxima is also on an

18:57

alley bat team, like a local

18:59

alley bat team. Like whoever, like

19:01

what's lower than the minor leagues

19:03

for like baseball I guess is

19:06

just like a little league team.

19:08

Yeah, for sure. I think that

19:10

would be a lot of fun

19:12

to have something like beer league

19:14

team. Yeah, yeah, like a beer

19:16

league team, yeah. Yeah, it's like

19:19

adults who are like much more

19:21

there for social things than any

19:23

other actual athletic competition. We're here

19:25

to socialize and play the game

19:27

and some of us take it

19:29

more seriously than others. And we

19:32

really love to go off for

19:34

tacos afterwards. Yeah, for sure. I

19:36

think that would be a lot

19:38

of fun to have that sort

19:40

of. At the very least if

19:42

you're fans of the alley bat

19:45

game or if you want to

19:47

be participants I think that would

19:49

be a cool Link as well.

19:51

Yeah, I mean I I feel

19:53

like I I would not be

19:55

good at that. Like I love

19:58

to be like my character is

20:00

like super into this and has

20:02

a fun time, but like I've

20:04

looked at my skills. My character

20:06

does not even have a remote

20:08

interest in anything athletic. Like, no.

20:11

But you know, I think more

20:13

often than not, I feel like

20:15

maybe I should be there just

20:17

in case because I've seen how

20:19

bad the rest of you are

20:21

too. And maybe having a doctor

20:24

present wouldn't be the worst idea.

20:26

Yeah. I'm out of the sense

20:28

of community service of like someone

20:30

should at least know how to

20:32

wrap an ankle. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

20:34

and we've talked about how my

20:37

guy is not like, charisma score

20:39

of six, he does not have

20:41

the greatest of person people skills.

20:43

He definitely is on the realm

20:45

of we are playing a game.

20:47

I should try hard at that

20:50

game. Right. He's like here to

20:52

win. Yes, yes, going for the

20:54

slide, going for the, the, uh,

20:56

yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're more

20:58

than happy when it goes into

21:00

extra innings and everybody's like, can

21:03

we please just like, go get

21:05

better? Like, yeah, happy hours ending

21:07

in 10 minutes. Well, is that

21:09

how Flynn blows off steam though,

21:11

is, is with the, the Ellie

21:13

bet? It might be, it might

21:16

be, yeah. Just crack those, crack

21:18

those things towards, for home runs

21:20

and whatnot. Yeah, I would like

21:22

to propose, definitely night games though,

21:24

that there's actually a big cheating

21:26

scandal higher up in. Bar League

21:29

alibi games. Oh, that's good. That

21:31

would be a wonderful campaign, yes.

21:33

With some like underground bedding going

21:35

on? Underground bedding, I think there's

21:37

corporate funds being put into some

21:39

of this, you know, like kind

21:42

of people getting paid to play

21:44

what should be a bar league

21:46

kind of sports. Yeah. Did we

21:48

find ourselves into an underdog sports

21:50

movie? Or are we like the...

21:52

the complicating factor on like the

21:55

sting, but in a Renaissance universe.

21:57

Yeah, well, I mean, I imagine

21:59

that like your character certainly is

22:01

gonna cause problems because you're like

22:03

way more into it than anybody

22:05

thought someone at this level should

22:08

be. So like they're really like,

22:10

it's really easy for betting circles

22:12

and you know, like, I imagine

22:14

there's probably some money laundering going

22:16

around with like, you know, the

22:18

betting. and the sponsorships and like

22:21

but you're way more into it

22:23

than anybody should be and it's

22:25

messing it up for everybody. Yeah

22:27

less less willing to go along

22:29

to get along because he just

22:31

likes playing. Yeah yeah because you're

22:34

like no I want this team

22:36

to win and they're like but

22:38

your team is not supposed to

22:40

win because it's like a bar

22:42

like it's pretty easy to tell

22:44

like which side of town the

22:47

good team is going to be

22:49

from you know. Yeah, yeah. Or

22:51

like the, we're playing against the

22:53

team that the owners put a

22:55

lot of money into. Right. The

22:57

factory owners put a lot of

23:00

money into? Exactly. And now it's

23:02

up to us to bring them

23:04

down. I love that. Yeah. I

23:06

also love that that like opens

23:08

up the potential for like, um,

23:10

like potential underground rivalry games where

23:13

you have to play on the

23:15

outskirts of the city. and like

23:17

it's just more dangerous there because

23:19

of potential monster. threats and stuff

23:21

like that. I think that would

23:23

add an interesting tense dynamic. I

23:26

also just love the idea of

23:28

like conspiracies and games because they

23:30

can be as small or as

23:32

big as you want depending on

23:34

like how long you want this

23:36

campaign to go on to is

23:39

like how deep does it go

23:41

like it goes all the way

23:43

to the top. You know like

23:45

so I mean we could potentially

23:47

just keep uncovering more and more.

23:49

You know it starts with like

23:52

you know, this team gets to

23:54

play in the nice park and

23:56

we're in, you know, the, the

23:58

field outside the where. but it

24:00

can go much further into

24:03

corporate greed and you

24:05

know espionage and government

24:08

corruption yeah yeah yeah

24:10

yeah absolutely and I

24:12

think that I think we are

24:15

just the people to figure

24:17

this out I do like that

24:19

we do like that we are

24:21

the ones that caught wind

24:24

of the underground nature

24:26

of this And we

24:28

know if we involve

24:30

anybody else, they're going to

24:32

be, you know, in a lot

24:34

of danger. We're already

24:36

in danger with this knowledge,

24:38

so we might as well be

24:41

there on running with it, right?

24:43

Yeah. Well, and also, if it

24:45

goes all the way to a

24:47

beer league alleyback game,

24:50

who can you trust? True.

24:52

True. No one. No one. No,

24:54

I love the idea of like this

24:56

starting out is very much like a

24:58

silly like comedy movie kind of a

25:00

thing and just getting like darker and

25:03

grittier the longer we play that it's

25:05

like oh it started as like a

25:07

funny like oh those those losers they're

25:09

gonna take down the big corporation funny

25:12

and then it's like no like they're

25:14

taking out your friends and family

25:16

and like now we're all the way to

25:19

like HBO drama level. Yeah, we

25:21

start out days of a

25:23

league of their own and

25:25

we end up with like

25:27

three days of the condor

25:29

by the end of it. The

25:31

man who knew too much.

25:33

Yeah, exactly. Yep. But now

25:35

I want to figure out

25:38

how my characters

25:40

like aspirations to to be

25:42

a better blacksmith

25:44

and like I meta want

25:47

her to get into

25:49

enchanted blacksmithing of sorts, right?

25:51

With like ritualist ritual

25:53

stuff and whatnot. And

25:55

I wonder if this

25:57

conspiracy doesn't involve cultists.

26:00

That's what I'm saying. You invited

26:02

me to your game. There's cultists.

26:04

It would unlock a lot of

26:06

potential for getting into those like

26:09

underground culty. I already told you

26:11

my character wants to explore that

26:13

intersection between life and death and

26:16

rebirth. And also play back alley

26:18

baseball. Yeah. Yeah, the faith of

26:20

fire and forge is literal magical

26:23

blacksmiths is in the game. as

26:25

I mentioned, the undead engineers. Well,

26:27

and also it's this fun thing

26:29

of then as a GM, you

26:32

get to come up with ways

26:34

that other skills could be relevant.

26:36

So like somebody that the party

26:39

really needs to talk to to

26:41

trust them, well, they needed. a

26:43

job done on the side. Like

26:46

the family heirloom soared is looking

26:48

mighty bad these days. Maybe somebody

26:50

could help me with that. And

26:53

I might be a little bit

26:55

more willing to cooperate. How do

26:57

I know that I can trust

26:59

you? Yeah, for sure. For sure.

27:02

There's always going to be side

27:04

quests. Oh, absolutely. Always side quests.

27:06

It just turns out that like

27:09

our characters, actual hopes and dreams

27:11

are side quests who uncovering the

27:13

sports league corruption. As long as

27:16

my character can pick up junkie-looking

27:18

weapons and armor and bring them

27:20

back to her smithing shop and

27:22

and melt them down and scrap

27:25

them for parts. Yeah. I'm happy.

27:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, don't worry.

27:29

The end goal is to make

27:32

the greatest alibi. that was ever

27:34

created, the gold and the. Oh,

27:36

the metal, the metal alibi, yeah,

27:39

the internal truth, obviously. Yeah, that

27:41

would be, that would be a

27:43

heck of an invention and a

27:45

heck of an innovation to bring

27:48

to the sport. Yeah, that's really

27:50

your ultimate goal. And it's enchanted

27:52

to look like wood. So like,

27:55

for sure. Yeah, that's the tough

27:57

part is making it look like

27:59

wood. So at first glance, you're

28:02

like, is that? What? I can

28:04

almost feel like cheating. Yeah. But

28:06

like we have to do it

28:09

in order to make it to

28:11

the next part of the tournament

28:13

so that we can like get

28:15

in with the people that are

28:18

really kind of behind this conspiracy.

28:20

And then there's a whole question

28:22

of do the ends justify the

28:25

means? at this very serious sport,

28:27

which is what got us in

28:29

here in the first place is

28:32

the problem that other people were

28:34

cheating. There's no rule in the

28:36

rule book that says you can't

28:38

use a metal alley bat, just

28:41

because they don't exist yet. Right,

28:43

right. Air, but our way to

28:45

victory. Exactly. Yeah. The rules do

28:48

not specifically state that the Golden

28:50

Red Reaper cannot be here. Yes,

28:52

yes. Yeah, and that's how we've

28:55

made a very serious game into.

28:58

Oh, there are endless, endless

29:00

avenues for shenanigans. Yeah, well,

29:02

I think that the answer

29:04

is like in the end,

29:07

like, this is a very

29:09

serious thing. It's just, it

29:11

seems like the way we

29:13

stumbled upon the problem was

29:16

like the one stupid place

29:18

it was happening, you know.

29:20

Yes. The one stupid place

29:22

that inconvenienced our characters that

29:25

it came up and then

29:27

immediately, you know, the conspiracy

29:29

never thought it would like

29:31

be a problem like we

29:34

don't have to be super

29:36

clean over there like those

29:38

people don't care it's just

29:40

they're out there to play

29:43

a game yeah the beer

29:45

really galley that you know

29:47

we don't have to worry

29:49

about that right nobody's yeah

29:52

looking for you know the

29:54

hands of corporate greed hovering

29:56

over like nobody cares they

29:58

just want their t-shirts and

30:00

they're a free beer and

30:03

they're gonna go home like

30:05

no uh not us Oh

30:07

man, I can, I can

30:09

see, uh, Maximia taking a

30:12

dark. or turn too when

30:14

getting deep into this and

30:16

like seeing the injustice and

30:18

kind of breaking from how

30:21

many tendrils are in society.

30:23

And now that alley bad

30:25

is more than just a

30:27

thing she uses in a

30:30

game. Yeah. How many lives

30:32

have you taken with your

30:34

alley? I know, right? How

30:36

many lives have been destroyed

30:39

by this horrible game? Yeah.

30:41

I feel like Flynn is

30:43

gonna have a lot of

30:45

fish out of water moments

30:48

with that, that it's like

30:50

very much keying off of

30:52

social skills that he's not

30:54

terribly good at. And it's

30:57

going to play into his

30:59

strengths in a bad way.

31:01

People at their worst a

31:03

lot of people that he's

31:06

going to be watching out

31:08

for them doing bad things

31:10

so it's gonna be When

31:12

all you've got is a

31:15

hammer everything looks like a

31:17

nail right sort of character

31:19

arc for yeah Which I

31:21

mean it feels like he

31:23

was mechanically, you know, certainly

31:26

built for that with his

31:28

paranoia that like this is

31:30

you know, it's like every

31:32

every horrible instinct confirmed Yeah,

31:35

yes, this is this is

31:37

a character that is At

31:39

their emotional peak as a

31:41

being and it's just downhill

31:44

from here. I think. Further

31:46

learning you can't trust anyone.

31:48

Yes. Yes. Was not primed

31:50

to trust anyone and is

31:53

just having that confirmed. Yeah,

31:55

this is this is some

31:57

negative character art territory. But

31:59

the dice could tell a

32:02

different story. them proves when

32:04

wrong, that like is somebody

32:06

that he can trust, that

32:08

he can build a relationship

32:11

with. through the power of

32:13

friendship, everything is possible. Yeah,

32:15

absolutely. What would the Alibat

32:17

team name be? Oh, gosh.

32:20

Oh, I mean, usually I

32:22

think they're named after like

32:24

a business or something, right?

32:26

Like, yeah. Oh, in the

32:29

industrialized world? Oh, what business

32:31

is supporting this Alibat team?

32:33

I mean, is our team

32:35

supported by my family blacksmiths?

32:37

Yeah. That seems like a

32:40

little bit of favorite to

32:42

them. The Cardnius, something or

32:44

another's. What was the name

32:46

again? Cardnius is my family

32:49

name. Cardenius. Could lean into

32:51

Cardinals. I mean,

32:53

but also you could work off

32:56

of like a blacksmithing pun. Yeah,

32:58

it seems more appropriate, you know.

33:00

The hammers? Yeah. I was like

33:02

just like hard hitters? Like, yeah.

33:04

Or is it just like a

33:07

really bad pun? Like is it

33:09

like a really bad, or is

33:11

it like a really bad, or

33:13

is it like a really not

33:16

cute aim? Like they didn't think

33:18

about it really hard. They were

33:20

filling it out on the forum.

33:22

They had the cardiness alley ball

33:25

team players. They were going for

33:27

an acronym and they forgot what

33:29

the acronym spelled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

33:31

I mean you could just go

33:34

for a bat and it's just

33:36

like blacksmithing alleyball team. Bat. Yeah.

33:38

Yeah. Is it the the alleybat

33:40

Bessers? Yeah. That's great. And it

33:43

becomes a negative association as they're

33:45

the biggest. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I

33:47

really didn't think about how that

33:49

was going to look shortened in

33:52

the logo. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But

33:54

it is great because like when

33:56

there's a little scoreboard it says

33:58

abs. That's true. I think that's

34:01

really important. Yeah, you're losing to

34:03

abs. Yep. I like that. ABS.

34:05

ABS. ABS. ABS. Yeah. I like

34:07

that. ABS. Yeah, black smithers. I

34:10

like it. All right. Amazing. Well,

34:12

let's get into our final advancement

34:14

discussion and take it up a

34:16

level. Take it up a level.

34:19

Take it up a level. So

34:21

this is the segment I've been

34:23

referring to over and over again

34:25

the whole time as we've been

34:28

talking about leveling up an XP.

34:30

But this is the part we're

34:32

going to talk about leveling up

34:34

an XP. So just in a

34:37

more like formal official one stop

34:39

shop kind of situation. How do

34:41

characters advance in this system? And

34:43

then like what happens mechanically when

34:46

you do that? Yeah, so to

34:48

start at the beginning of the

34:50

process, you gain XP by doing

34:52

checks in skills and you gain

34:55

XP in the skill that you

34:57

use. So for instance, my character's

34:59

archery is at rank 10. Say

35:01

I do several checks and I

35:04

earn. 10xP in archery. I then

35:06

level, sorry, I rank up archery.

35:08

I roll a D6 plus my

35:10

dexterity modifier, which is 1. And

35:12

then I gain that rank in

35:15

that skill and that same number

35:17

goes to my rank ups for

35:19

my level. When I get 20

35:21

ranks in a level, I gain

35:24

another level. And I can use

35:26

the mastery point I gain with

35:28

that level. to gain a mastery

35:30

from any of the careers that

35:33

I have unlocked. I have one

35:35

career for my character at the

35:37

start of the game. I can

35:39

unlock any career that I meet

35:42

the unlock requirements for. The prototypical

35:44

one that we use as an

35:46

example. is the thief. If you

35:48

steal enough things you unlock the

35:51

thief career. A lot of our

35:53

PG players unlock the thief career.

35:55

What? I'm shocked. Yeah. And then

35:57

once that career is unlocked you

36:00

can invest your mastery points however

36:02

you would like to advance within

36:04

that career. As you level up

36:06

also every odd level you get

36:09

one attribute point that you can

36:11

add to any of your attributes.

36:13

And that is how characters advance

36:15

in Crucible of Aether. So slowly

36:18

you can accumulate skills, abilities, and

36:20

get a little bit stronger, more

36:22

dexterous, more intelligent, as you advance

36:24

over the course of the game.

36:27

Yeah. And I think you said

36:29

the amount of XP you get

36:31

on a success varies by how

36:33

difficult the check is, right? Yes.

36:36

Yeah. So, for instance, picking a...

36:38

poor quality lock is worth much

36:40

less to XP than picking like

36:42

the best lock in the world

36:45

with like seven tumblers and three

36:47

counter intrusion whatever. You gain more

36:49

XP from picking that lock than

36:51

you do, you know, the lock

36:54

on a bathroom. Right. And then

36:56

your lock picking scale thus advances

36:58

more quickly the more difficult things

37:00

you attempt. Very cool. Yeah. Pretty

37:03

straightforward. Yeah, absolutely. And I love

37:05

all the narrative. Right. Yeah, I

37:07

say, but again, much more narrative

37:09

focused than most games, because even,

37:12

you know, even getting XP, like,

37:14

when you complete a mission or,

37:16

you know, as opposed to just

37:18

for, like, things killed or whatever,

37:20

like that, it's still, you know,

37:23

changes how you spend that XP,

37:25

where this is, like, mechanically spent

37:27

for you in a way, you

37:29

know, and you are making decisions

37:32

about what's important to your character.

37:34

based on what you're doing as

37:36

a character. Yeah, yeah. And I

37:38

love how it informs here to.

37:41

of like, I think I want

37:43

to do something cool with stone

37:45

cutting. I haven't done that yet.

37:47

Let me get some tools and

37:50

try it and see what happens.

37:52

Yeah, I am curious. And some

37:54

of those like, you know, you

37:56

talked about checks that have like,

37:59

you know, like multiple checks along

38:01

the way, like with crafting and

38:03

stuff like that. Like, what happens

38:05

if you do like different kinds

38:08

of checks to get to that

38:10

final thing? Like if you're making

38:12

something that it's like, like, Do

38:14

you do different checks for those

38:17

things? Yeah, so it's sort of

38:19

built into the complexity of the

38:21

thing. So for instance, making a

38:23

firearm is an example that I

38:26

used. I don't know if it

38:28

would be this episode or a

38:30

prior one is one of the

38:32

most complex things that you can

38:35

do in the game and it

38:37

requires a certain number of accumulated

38:39

successes that... for most characters would

38:41

take place over the course of,

38:44

over the course of an entire

38:46

session or maybe multiple sessions that

38:48

it's like, oh, I've got a

38:50

little bit of downtime, I'm gonna

38:53

try and tinker away at this

38:55

thing. And that's where it's abstracting

38:57

the, oh, I need to, you

38:59

know, drill out this barrel, I

39:02

need to fine tune this spring

39:04

or all of those things are

39:06

a little bit abstracted into the

39:08

check complexity of requiring the accumulated

39:11

successes. Could you be using the

39:13

same skill each time you rolled

39:15

those though? Yes, yeah. As a

39:17

GM I might provide a bonus,

39:20

say if you've got a high

39:22

wood cutting skill and you might

39:24

get a bonus or sorry a

39:26

high woodworking skill, you might get

39:28

a bonus on one of the

39:31

checks used to make a rifle

39:33

for instance or not a rifle

39:35

at Mosket because it's like, oh,

39:37

I'm going to abstract there as

39:40

a GM that... Right now you're

39:42

working on the stock. Right. So

39:44

you get it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

39:46

But by the book, raw, it

39:49

is a metalworking. to make a

39:51

fire. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

39:53

Yeah. That's really cool. But again,

39:55

it'll like how malleable. Yeah, see

39:58

if you can like work in

40:00

those like I'm good at these

40:02

other things and like this may

40:04

help me be proficient in. But

40:07

yeah, adding bonuses I think makes

40:09

awesome. Yeah. And that's the kind

40:11

of thing that we encourage in

40:13

our GM chapter is to be

40:16

very flexible about where somebody might

40:18

get a bonus and to reward

40:20

the things that they put their

40:22

time into with. bonuses or penalties.

40:25

Like they might make a negative

40:27

character choice and be like, I

40:29

am going to do this thing

40:31

in this way because it's what

40:34

my character would do, even though

40:36

it's not the best, you know,

40:38

most mid-max, mid-ocryphal choice. Given the

40:40

situation that we're in and the

40:43

time that we have, I would

40:45

be doing it this way. Yeah.

40:47

Absolutely. Yeah, like my character Flynn

40:49

might be more likely to... resort

40:52

to fighting even if it would

40:54

not be a good choice in

40:56

that scenario. And it would either

40:58

make other social checks in this

41:01

situation more difficult or it might

41:03

result in a very difficult combat

41:05

encounter. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I

41:07

mean I can definitely see my

41:10

character resorting punching somebody on the

41:12

face. I'm not good at anything

41:14

combat related. My strength is, you

41:16

know, my my speed, absolutely not.

41:19

I can't run away from it,

41:21

so let's get into it I

41:23

guess. Yeah. Okay. Well, Mike, thank

41:25

you so much for joining us

41:28

to talk about Crucible of Ather.

41:30

This was really fascinating learning about.

41:32

Yeah, thank you very much for

41:34

having me on and I love

41:36

being able to play around with

41:39

and talk about the system. Can

41:41

you remind everyone where they can

41:43

find you online and the sorts

41:45

of things you're going on and

41:48

maybe when to expect the Kickstarter

41:50

potentially for this? all of the

41:52

good stuff about the game. Yes,

41:54

yes, absolutely. So all of the

41:57

stuff that we've talked about today

41:59

on the podcast is on our

42:01

discord right now. You can find

42:03

the invitation on any of

42:06

our socials. We are aether,

42:08

underscore, crucible, pretty much everywhere,

42:10

except for Blue Sky, a

42:13

little bit different. And we are,

42:15

as of recording, about to submit

42:17

our Kickstarter page for review so

42:19

that we can get the preview

42:21

page up. over the course of

42:24

a while the podcast airs we

42:26

may well have it up and

42:28

we are also going to be

42:30

at packs unplugged we are going

42:32

to have a portion of a

42:34

booth at packs this year. Oh

42:36

very cool. Yeah fingers crossed we

42:38

are going to be wrapping the kickstarter.

42:41

Yeah very nice. Well we'll

42:43

keep an eye out too. Yeah put the

42:45

links in the show notes as

42:47

they become available. Yes comes out

42:50

over the course of November.

42:52

Yes, yeah, we've got a

42:54

link tree that is going

42:56

to be, is going to

42:58

house everything, including the Kickstarter

43:00

and also obviously have the

43:02

pre-launch link live when

43:05

that is ready to go. It's

43:07

very exciting. Are you getting nervous?

43:09

Yeah, yeah, getting nervous because it's

43:12

been a lot of years of

43:14

doing. the behind-the-scenes work

43:16

of like writing the game and doing

43:19

mechanics stuff and rewriting stuff and all

43:21

of that and then you know the

43:23

social media build-up doing things like podcasts

43:25

all of that and then we still don't

43:28

know if it's all right now it's like

43:30

is it gonna pay off like will everyone

43:32

love this thing that I've poured my

43:34

heart and soul into for years like

43:37

yeah yeah exactly and and and we

43:39

still don't know and we won't know until

43:41

you know until you know we hit the

43:43

start button and that is

43:45

heroin. Yes, yes. We're going to

43:47

do radical acceptance, we're going to

43:49

do some deep breathing, just what

43:51

will be, will be great. I had

43:54

a lot of fun with this

43:56

so I hope that all of our

43:58

listeners enjoyed it too. that they

44:00

will check it out because this

44:02

was, it really was like a

44:05

very good marriage of like the

44:07

narrative part of games that I

44:09

love, the crunch that Ryan loves,

44:11

like, this was like the crunchy

44:14

peanut butter, it was tasty, it

44:16

was crunchy, so we're filling. I

44:18

will absolutely take that comparison. Yeah,

44:20

I love it. It's right here.

44:23

It's the crunchy peanut butter of

44:25

games. You can go ahead and

44:27

put that quote right on your

44:29

kick. Yeah, like that would be

44:32

fantastic. And I would love for

44:34

more people to sort of dive

44:36

in and just explore, you know,

44:38

what kind of people they can

44:41

make. Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you

44:43

so much for sitting down with

44:45

us. This was great. And thank

44:47

you to everyone for tuning in.

44:50

Call to watch action. Yeah, like

44:52

that. All right, another

44:54

series in the books. This was

44:56

such a fun game. We

44:58

had an amazing time with Mike.

45:01

It was very interesting learning

45:03

about this game and seeing a

45:05

game with a lot of

45:07

crunch being really easy to grock.

45:10

So really happy we were

45:12

able to cover this. I am

45:14

looking forward to the Kickstarter

45:16

launch. I'm not 100% sure when

45:19

that will be, but I

45:21

believe it should be very soon.

45:23

And so I'm very interested

45:25

to see what sort of other

45:27

little goodies will be available

45:29

for this for the Kickstarter. But

45:32

I am very excited to

45:34

see where it all goes. So

45:36

Mike, good job on a

45:38

fun game. and I hope all

45:41

of you listeners out there

45:43

enjoyed this series as much as

45:45

we enjoyed recording it. But

45:47

before we let you go for

45:49

the day, we do have

45:51

some calls to action. First up,

45:54

this coming Thursday is Thanksgiving

45:56

here in the US. In the

45:58

spirit of the season, we

46:00

want... to say that we were

46:03

incredibly thankful for all of

46:05

you, our listeners. Without your support

46:07

and enthusiasm for the show,

46:09

we likely wouldn't have made it

46:12

almost seven years, with no

46:14

plans on stopping any time soon.

46:16

We love how our community

46:18

is so inclusive and helpful with

46:20

one another. And in order

46:22

to help that community grow even

46:25

more, we have added a

46:27

promotional code to our patron for

46:29

first-time patrons for 20% off

46:31

the first month by using promo

46:34

code C3 Thanks. That's all

46:36

one word in the number three.

46:38

If you head to our

46:40

patron at patreon.com/character creation cast, you'll

46:43

be able to pick which

46:45

tier to sign up for at

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a discount. That means you

46:49

can get our custom C3 dice

46:51

and a personalized thank you

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designed by Amelia as well as

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the dice and thank you

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on top of everything else

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the patron offers and once things

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settle down from the holiday

47:11

will even be prepping for more

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And if you join now you'll

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be... just in time for

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a holiday surprise that we are

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planning for the patrons that

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we have addresses for. So, there's

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plenty to be excited about

47:29

coming soon. Next up, The Crucival

47:31

of Atherk started like I

47:33

mentioned just before. It's right around

47:36

the corner. Check out the

47:38

show notes to find a link

47:40

to the campaign. We really

47:42

enjoyed learning about this game and

47:44

we hope a lot of

47:46

folks check it out when it

47:49

releases. Just another reminder we

47:51

have new stickers on the way

47:53

for our campaign level backers

47:55

This is the $10 level of

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our patron and it nets

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you every sticker We've exclusively put

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in hand. That means we

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have 18 stickers right now. If

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We even like to thank our

48:20

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support truly helps out a great

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deal, so let's go ahead

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and do that right now. Thank

48:29

you to DJG, aka Tigranosaurus.

48:31

Eric Bons and Deral Holiday This

48:33

Second. Thank you, Shady M.

48:35

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48:37

Sweeney. Your support brings us

48:39

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48:42

Brown, and Tentacle Duck. We

48:44

appreciate your support. Thank you. Thank

48:46

you to John Adamus, A3

48:48

sketchpad, and Cole McCallum. Carlos Salazar,

48:51

Eric, Essen, Ian Potmayer. We

48:53

can't thank you enough, but we'll

48:55

keep on trying anyway. Thanks

48:57

to Liam G. Brian Colm and

49:00

Garden GM, we are so

49:02

glad to have you all here

49:04

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much. Nicole Trainer, Liam Murray,

49:10

and Kenny, thank you all for

49:13

your continued support. And Brian

49:15

Kurtz, Mark E. Fair, and Drew

49:17

Owen, we appreciate your support

49:19

as well. Thank you. And thank

49:22

you to all of our

49:24

future patrons. We are currently under

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our operating budget every month.

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between the podcast costs and the

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patron rewards. So we do

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49:37

If you are able to chip

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50:01

don't forget the code that

50:03

we have going right now. We'll

50:06

see three things before. December

50:08

8th. That's all we have for

50:10

today's episode. Join us next

50:12

week when we start covering a

50:15

brand new game for December.

50:17

Monty Python's co-curricular medieval reenactment program

50:19

with designer Brian Saliba. But

50:21

until then, take care of everyone.

50:24

Stay safe. Drinks of water.

50:26

Be thankful for things or people

50:28

that bring you joy. And

50:30

keep making those amazing people. We'll

50:32

see you next time. Ryan

50:34

Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I

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51:55

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