0:00

Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams,

0:02

a production of iHeartRadio and The Black

0:04

Effect.

0:18

What do you do when it seems like everybody

0:20

else is getting their dreams

0:23

and you're not well.

0:25

I'm so excited about our

0:27

next guest today, Heather Thompson

0:30

Day. She's going to tell you right here

0:32

on another episode of Checking

0:34

In. Heather

0:39

Thompson Day is an associate professor

0:41

in the Department of Visual Arts, Communication

0:44

and Design at Andrews University

0:46

in Baryon Springs, Michigan.

0:48

She runs an online.

0:49

Community called I'm That Wife and

0:52

hosts the Viral Jesus podcast

0:54

and entered Denominational speaker. Heather

0:57

is the author of books including Confession

1:00

of a Christian Wife and How to Feed

1:02

the Mediavore and her newest book,

1:04

It's Not Your Turn. She's also

1:06

a contributor for Religion News Service,

1:09

Newsweek, and The Barner Group.

1:11

And she previously taught at Colorado

1:13

Christian University. And It's Not Your

1:16

Turn it's her newest release

1:18

which I had the pleasure of contributing

1:21

just aligne for her

1:23

book. And when you first hear the

1:25

title It's Not Your Turn, it

1:27

can sound like stop, it is not

1:30

your turn versus. But what's

1:32

on the cover of the book is a

1:35

traffic signal that we all

1:37

need because if we don't have that traffic

1:39

signal, we would just crash.

1:42

You know, some of us.

1:43

Haven't learned what the right away means.

1:45

So your book is not your turn

1:47

what to do while you're waiting

1:50

for your breakthrough.

1:52

Heather, welcome to checking out

1:54

in. I am so excited to be

1:56

here. Thanks for having me listen.

2:00

When about maybe was it two years ago,

2:02

because that's kind of how long.

2:03

It takes on it's your book.

2:05

Me and you had some contact via

2:08

social media. I can't can't remember if it

2:10

was Twitter or Instagram. First, it might have been Twitter.

2:13

I was following you. I think some of your posts

2:15

have gone viral in a good way, and

2:18

one of your most recent viral

2:20

posts was about when your father walked

2:22

you down the aisle.

2:24

Yeah that's right at your wedding.

2:26

But we got in contact because of

2:28

your book and

2:30

girl, maybe even a connection

2:32

or two of love connection.

2:34

We can talk about that, but I got cold

2:36

feet. Let's talk about it now.

2:39

Tell them Michelle, because so one of my things

2:42

I am a professor, but also I'm a matchmaker.

2:45

I love setting people up, and

2:47

I was trying to set you up and you

2:49

never followed through. Just let them

2:51

hang, loft them unrid.

2:54

Well, if they're listening

2:56

to this, you can reach out to them, Heather,

2:58

And I'll let you know in this episode

3:00

Airs, I got cold feet.

3:03

Okay, when you know at the time

3:05

you think you're ready because

3:07

you know you're like, okay, I'm ready, but

3:10

I got cold feet and maybe I wasn't

3:12

ready. And I want to encourage

3:14

people that that's okay when you think you're

3:17

ready, and you

3:19

know, just follow that, follow follow

3:21

your heart, follow wisdom, following discernment,

3:23

like, eh, I'm gonna put a stop to

3:25

it. I'm not ready, and I wouldn't want

3:27

to waste anybody's time. You know, it's

3:30

more than just letting them because I love a good

3:32

ribbi and it's more than just enjoying

3:34

a ribbi. It's not wasting someone's

3:36

time, right, So I'm not in the business

3:39

of that. At least I pray that I have not intentionally

3:42

wasted anyone's time.

3:44

So, yeah, ladies and gentlemen that are

3:46

listening, Heather

3:48

tried our best. Was it about two or three?

3:50

And listen, I got three of

3:52

the most eligible bachelors. I

3:54

knew, just top notch

3:57

cream of the crop, got

3:59

them so excited that they would be hearing from you,

4:02

and then nothing.

4:02

But it's okay. You weren't ready. Did

4:04

I not respond to either of them? I don't.

4:07

I don't think you did.

4:11

One was like.

4:12

An owner of a team. It's fine,

4:15

it's fine. He wasn't

4:17

he's an owner of a team? Or was he one coaches?

4:21

He had like a high level, like a

4:23

vice president of a sports team. No.

4:26

We I was scouring for

4:29

the top notch people, put

4:31

them together. I had like a bio sheet ready

4:33

for.

4:33

You, and then we passed. But it's okay.

4:36

I'm sorry

4:36

to read. Are they still

4:38

eligible? You know? I'd

4:41

have to follow back up on that now it's been over

4:43

me.

4:43

Be like Michelle might not Michelle

4:46

wasn't ready for you, but she

4:49

might know two or three folks that

4:51

are. Can we Is that

4:53

okay? Guys, if

4:56

you're listening, we're gonna circle back.

4:59

So oh yeah, yeah.

5:01

I think I was. I don't know if I was

5:04

lonely or being sentimental or

5:06

maybe in that place.

5:07

Like I said, I thought I was ready for a relationship

5:09

and it just did not work.

5:12

Out that way and you're so busy.

5:14

So you're so busy, that's perfect.

5:16

And I'm not gonna even say it's

5:18

busy. You do make time for

5:20

what you're ready for and what you want. I

5:23

just knew when I look back. I just I thought

5:25

I was ready, but I wasn't, especially when you

5:27

finally are are, when

5:29

it's put in front of you.

5:31

I could have easily maybe.

5:33

Press respond or whatever the app

5:35

was, Instagram sign think I do recall

5:37

some DMS? Yes I do, okay, And I

5:39

just was not ready. I just was

5:42

like, I'm not ready, but I respect

5:44

not.

5:45

Okay, all right, okay.

5:47

Well meaning, And it wasn't their turn,

5:50

right, it wasn't

5:53

their turn.

5:53

It is not my turn. It wasn't

5:55

our turn.

5:56

So what to do while you're waiting

5:59

for your breakthrough

6:02

is an amazing, phenomenal

6:04

book. I was able to get

6:06

a copy beforehand, and

6:08

I think then, I think an actual

6:12

book that was sent that consumers actually get

6:14

in their hands.

6:14

So thank you, thank you, thank you.

6:17

Was that your own experience?

6:20

That was absolutely my experience. It was something

6:22

I started saying to myself. I couldn't find

6:25

a job after I felt like I had done

6:27

everything right. Academically,

6:29

and at the exact same time, one of my best

6:31

friends named Jule calls me and

6:33

she gets hired by NASA, and

6:36

I was like, wow, I'm

6:39

so happy for you, and I was

6:41

happy for her. I was just also incredibly

6:43

sad for myself. And that was probably the first

6:45

time I felt like the Holy Spirit said, hoether, it's

6:48

not your turn, but it's hers, and so you

6:50

clap for her, show up for her.

6:52

And that's what I did.

6:52

So it became something I started repeating to myself

6:55

when other people were getting the things I was

6:57

praying for. I just started saying, it's not your turn,

7:00

it's not your turn. It's not your turn, but it's her turn, and

7:02

so you show up in you clap.

7:03

So that is a real thing, whether

7:05

or not you have a solid relationship

7:08

with God. You know, you

7:10

are a professor, you know you

7:12

write for amazing popular

7:15

magazines, but you still find

7:17

yourself in that position, like this

7:20

person has what I'm praying for, and

7:22

it's a human thing.

7:24

You know, now, as you told

7:26

us.

7:27

What you did from the human perspective,

7:29

how did you handle it spiritually?

7:32

M How am I.

7:33

Still handling it spiritually? It's

7:36

funny it's like I've not graduated. And I

7:38

think I had thought when I wrote this

7:40

book, I was going to have graduated.

7:43

I would no longer struggle with insecurity,

7:45

I would no longer feel jealous of somebody

7:47

else. And it hasn't been the case. And

7:50

I feel like what I am really

7:52

good at now is just giving

7:54

it to God.

7:55

Immediately.

7:56

I will go up in my room somebody

7:58

has a New York Times bestseller, which is alway been my dream.

8:00

I'll go up in my room and just say to God, like, hey,

8:02

I this is hard for me.

8:04

I'm struggling with this.

8:06

And I am I've been freed though, because

8:08

it's like I don't have to be perfect

8:10

or have the perfect responses. I just have to be honest

8:13

right and try to stay in the relationships. And so that's

8:15

kind of been more of my focus now.

8:17

That's so good being honest and like

8:20

you said, taking it to God in prayer, yes,

8:22

versus going to social media

8:25

about it or acting away to

8:27

the friend or or that peer that

8:29

has that book on the New York

8:31

Times bestseller list.

8:33

You know, I'm with you on that.

8:35

I was like, I just know my book is

8:37

going to be a New York Times bestseller. We

8:39

are doing the right things and it just

8:42

didn't hit and you're soul right.

8:43

I had to sit in that and sit

8:45

in disappointment, yeap.

8:47

And a part of me also had

8:50

to sit in was a

8:52

part of me feeling entitled.

8:57

Let's talk about that, because I think that's where

8:59

I've come to right now. But this has

9:01

been a progression for me. I have now gotten

9:03

to a point where I have to say, Heether, do you

9:05

want anything God himself has

9:07

not given you?

9:08

I don't, right, But that

9:10

has been a progression.

9:12

I think I went most of my years

9:14

feeling a little bit entitled because I felt

9:16

like I'd done so much work.

9:18

Yes, right. That's the thing when you actually

9:20

do the word, do the work.

9:22

You're prepared, everybody's

9:24

given you accolas.

9:26

Yeah, and you're like, I

9:29

didn't.

9:29

Get the results I wanted. But it's

9:31

like, what if you got the actual result

9:33

that God wanted you.

9:35

To have exactly?

9:36

And how do we defer to

9:39

God being actual lord over our

9:41

lives?

9:42

That's the human experience, that's the journey.

9:45

And how we define

9:48

what success is or what impact is.

9:51

Would I have felt that I made impact

9:53

because it was on the bestseller list or

9:56

am I excited? I did a podcast

9:58

recording before

10:00

you and not knowing the young lady

10:03

has my book and she's referring

10:05

to chapters in my book that

10:07

have.

10:08

Helped her on her journey.

10:09

She's an expert in finance, and

10:12

I'm never thinking that someone

10:15

who seems to be an expert at what they're

10:17

doing would be holding a book in my.

10:18

Hand to me.

10:20

Yeah, yes, that is

10:22

impact, and it is impact I believe

10:24

in the way God desires for it to

10:27

have impact.

10:29

Yeah, that's so essentially The entire

10:31

book for me came down to this sentence.

10:33

Who we are when we perceive

10:36

it to not be our turn is actually more

10:38

important than who we will be when it is.

10:41

It's very easy.

10:43

I was just speaking for university campus

10:46

last week and I told them it is not hard

10:48

to get up and speak in front of several thousand people.

10:50

That's really easy easy.

10:52

What's hard to do is show up when you don't know if anyone's

10:54

coming.

10:55

That's hard. That's integrity. And

10:57

I really think we need a generation.

10:59

Of people who are going to hit the podcast

11:01

button on when I don't know if anyone's

11:03

gonna listen. That's integrity.

11:05

I'm in this because of the mission,

11:08

not because of the reward. And who we

11:10

are when it's on our turn is more important than who we will

11:12

be when it is.

11:13

And not only that, like you said, doing

11:16

the event if you feel like anyone will come. Also,

11:18

what about posting that post

11:21

when you feel like, okay, but no one's gonna

11:23

see it?

11:23

Am I gonna have one?

11:25

Like?

11:25

But I'm telling you your people

11:29

will see it in the right people when it's

11:31

time.

11:32

Like you said, when is your when it's your turn?

11:34

A lot of people have gone viral out of the

11:36

blue based out of the obedience

11:39

of what they felt like they were supposed to

11:41

do.

11:42

Tabitha Brown is such a great example,

11:44

yes of.

11:46

Her saying at that time, I've got a cell

11:48

phone, I feel obedient,

11:50

feel I feel like I'm let to post things

11:53

about cooking and inspirational

11:55

moments and this

11:57

girl is on fire, you

12:00

know, just based off of that. So thank

12:02

you for that while

12:07

you wait, Like you said,

12:10

when it's not your turn yet, do you feel

12:12

like that's who you really are?

12:14

I think that's when we decide who we are, okay,

12:18

is when it's not our turn?

12:20

Right?

12:22

When does David become King?

12:24

David is anointed king.

12:26

For years before it's

12:28

ever in his circumstances,

12:31

right, So when does David actually

12:33

feel like king?

12:35

He has to.

12:35

Believe the vision that's been spoken over his

12:37

life long before anybody else is even

12:40

able to confirm it.

12:42

So when you're saying he

12:44

was anointed king long before he felt

12:47

was that the early days of imposter syndrome?

12:50

Right?

12:51

And how do we keep showing up in those spaces

12:53

when nobody's cheering for you when

12:56

nobody the truth is.

12:57

Nobody would even care if you didn't.

13:00

How do we keep showing up

13:03

when nobody else would even notice? And I

13:05

had to come to a point where I realized, this

13:07

is actually when it matters. My

13:09

life doesn't start. It's a metaphorical there.

13:12

Once I get there, that's when my life

13:14

start.

13:14

No, my life starts.

13:15

Martin Luther King Junior has this really fantastic quote. He was

13:17

speaking to a group of high

13:19

school seniors. This is, I really think

13:22

like a life transforming quote.

13:24

And essentially what he says is if all you

13:27

ever do when you leave here is become

13:29

a street sweeper, then you sweep

13:31

those streets with so much passion and

13:33

so much intention and so much charisma

13:37

that all of heaven has to stop and

13:39

say, oh my God, look

13:41

at the street sweeper.

13:43

So good. I want to live my life like that.

13:45

So good, so good, showing

13:48

up to my own life.

13:50

When you said that your friend,

13:52

you know, got this job, and was

13:54

that NASA? Is it something

13:56

that she posted on social media or

13:58

did you just find doubt?

14:00

Was it a text?

14:01

No, she called me, she said, you're not going to believe

14:03

this. And at the exact same time, so this is about

14:06

this is almost ten years ago. At the

14:08

same time, I am applying for jobs

14:10

left and right. I've been in school. I graduated

14:12

high school in two thousand and five. I never took

14:14

a summer off. I stayed all the way through

14:16

my PhD. And I thought, surely I'm going to get

14:18

a job right away, and I didn't. And

14:21

I applied and I applied and I applied it and nothing

14:23

was opening for me. I'm adjuncting at like five

14:25

different schools, trying to just make enough

14:27

money to pay for diapers. And at

14:30

the exact same time, my friend, who did

14:32

not do all the right things

14:34

right, just totally did her own path, gets

14:36

hired at NASA. And she calls me, she's like, I'm

14:38

not going to believe it, and I'm like, oh my god, what She's

14:41

like, I just got hired at NASA, and

14:43

I'm like, wow.

14:46

This is great.

14:47

And I had to like, I just think

14:49

it's okay for both things to

14:51

be true. It's okay that this is really

14:53

hard for me and also that I'm

14:55

actually genuinely happy for you because I

14:58

always was right, yeah,

15:00

yeah, and allowing myself to just say that

15:02

out loud, this is a botha and situation. I

15:05

am sad for me, but I'm also really happy

15:07

for you. But in this moment, how they do not let your

15:09

sadness for you obstruct what

15:11

you could say to her? And so I told her, I'm

15:13

so happy for you. We're going to clap for you, We're going to go to dinner.

15:15

This is amazing because it was right.

15:18

And so when I had to free myself of

15:20

feeling like a bad person for also

15:22

being sad, like I had to go

15:24

through that walk and I'm still going through that walk.

15:26

I'm still on that journey.

15:28

Okay. Do you think social media

15:30

makes this feeling worse, Michelle?

15:33

I know it makes it worse.

15:35

We know statistics. I teach social

15:37

media. This absolutely has been exasperated.

15:40

It used to be that we compare ourselves like

15:43

to our neighbors. Well, now I compare myself

15:45

to several thousand people at a

15:47

time, right, my closest quotations,

15:50

friends, and often it's

15:52

people that honestly have like a literally

15:55

totally different life experience than me, but they're showing

15:57

up on my feed and feeling

16:00

behind on a race that I was

16:02

never in, right, I was never in that

16:04

race. And so yeah, then we

16:06

look at our own lives, we see everybody else's highlights,

16:09

and it's.

16:09

Hard to feel good about

16:11

where you are.

16:13

Absolutely, absolutely

16:15

the comparison we compare ourselves

16:18

to absolute total strangers.

16:20

Yeah, I remember

16:22

about a year or two ago, Tasha Cobbs.

16:25

Leonard posted something I think she

16:27

had gotten a plaque or something, and

16:29

she said she almost didn't post

16:31

it because

16:34

of that reason. She didn't want anybody

16:36

to feel like she was showing

16:39

off and you know, gloating

16:42

her success. And you

16:44

know, but then at the same time,

16:46

it's like, I'm so excited about

16:48

an accomplishment that I have, which is the total

16:51

opposite of like you said, you were happy for the

16:53

person, but you weren't happy. But then the

16:55

other side of things are people

16:57

actually won't post the

17:01

highlights as well because of

17:03

how it might make people feel.

17:07

Then you have people who will post

17:09

their highlights to literally make people

17:12

jealous. I want my co

17:14

worker to know I got the promotion and they did it

17:16

right, just to be petty and

17:18

I'm sorry. I feel like you're gonna

17:20

reap that if that's the attitude in which

17:23

you post something. But how

17:25

do you feel now about posting

17:27

like your highlights?

17:30

That's a good question.

17:32

And you know this because it's it's

17:35

not just me, right, So I have

17:37

an agent that's saying you need to make sure that

17:39

people understand this, and I have other people that are

17:41

telling me make sure that. So that's

17:43

a really really good question, and

17:46

they're at some point

17:49

social media. As much

17:51

as it's a reflection of us, it also becomes

17:55

a reflection of other people's work too,

17:58

right, that are helping me.

18:00

In whatever this brand is.

18:02

I hate to use that word, but that we're trying

18:04

to put out there that are that I mean.

18:06

So here's here's a real conversation that I just

18:08

had with my agent. You should

18:10

be putting doctor Heather

18:13

Thompson day in your in your actual

18:15

name so that people know.

18:17

Wait a minute, what what?

18:20

Wait a minute, Wait a.

18:21

Minute, doctor

18:23

Heather Thompson Day.

18:25

So you see, this is a thing.

18:27

So this is the thing I don't I don't

18:29

do it, I don't put it, and

18:31

so it's I have a lot of different

18:34

feelings about that because I don't

18:36

make my students refer to me as that I.

18:38

Hate a minute, I gotta do a whole intro again, doctor

18:40

Heather Thompson Day. I promise

18:43

you don't an associate professor in

18:45

the Department of Visual.

18:47

Arts doctor now.

18:51

So this is a thing, right, So people say you

18:53

have to be very careful because you want people to

18:55

see you in a certain way.

18:57

Yeah, it's hard sociality, is

18:59

it because you want them to be

19:01

eye level with you or to receive

19:03

you from an organic down

19:05

or earth.

19:06

I think for me it's because I'm still in the classroom

19:09

and so because I'm with real students.

19:11

Every single day.

19:12

I have found in my own experience with this generation,

19:15

they do better or a

19:18

student is more likely to when

19:21

it's just Heather, they might be too afraid

19:23

to ever stay after if it's doctor Heather

19:25

Tomp's day. So I've just kind of allowed

19:28

myself to be myself without

19:31

necessarily titles although conversations

19:34

I have with other people, or should

19:36

we.

19:36

Keep doing that? Should we do this differently? Okay?

19:40

All right? Is it in your bio

19:42

your Instagram bio line? Yes,

19:46

I think it might be. I know, it says professor.

19:49

You know, there's only so many characters that allows you to have

19:51

in those little bios.

19:52

And I know, and we have some.

19:54

I know my first name, middle name, and last

19:56

name is way too low.

19:58

Let me make sure headther' Thompson

20:00

day. Nope, it is not.

20:03

I don't have it in there. See yeah,

20:05

Nope, it's not. It just says Heather Thompson

20:07

Day. You know. And listen,

20:10

I just did a post about.

20:11

My uncle for a Black History Month and I felt

20:13

like I call him uncle Charles, but

20:15

in certain settings I must call him

20:18

doctor Washington, you know,

20:20

to let him know that I honor, you

20:22

know, around because I don't want somebody just walking

20:24

up to him saying, hey Chuck because

20:26

they heard me call him uncle Charles. It's like, no,

20:28

he is a medical doctor. It too

20:30

come years to get these letters behind his

20:33

name, so absolutely

20:35

incredible. What to

20:37

do while you're waiting? What

20:40

do we tell somebody who feels like

20:42

they're doing everything right. They're

20:44

praying, they're honoring their

20:46

parents, they're paying.

20:48

Their bills before the do date. Yeah,

20:52

what I've come to is, I just

20:54

started. I just think you're anointing

20:57

begins the day you believe you have one.

20:59

And so I just.

21:01

I'm anointed and it doesn't matter if anybody

21:04

else sees it. I'm just going to show up and believe

21:06

that for myself. And so what happened

21:08

for me was I can remember

21:10

the day. It was a February about

21:12

four years ago. I had this revelation

21:15

for myself where I said, you're annointing me begins

21:17

the day you believe you have one. And I was going to go teach

21:19

a class after lunch and

21:21

all the students it was after lunch, the students heads around

21:23

their desks. There was only like five kids in the class.

21:26

And typically I probably would have went into an environment

21:28

like that and read

21:30

the room said okay, let me just try to get

21:33

this lecture done and get nobody wants to be here,

21:35

and I just decided, no, I'm anointed to

21:37

be and I'll never forget it. At

21:39

the that class, a girl came to my office and

21:41

she said, you said something. I

21:43

don't remember what it was, but she says, you said something in your

21:46

lecture that I had been praying on for

21:48

the last six months.

21:49

Thank you so much. And I just.

21:50

Realized, had I not shown up,

21:53

had I not believed that there was a reason

21:55

for me to be there, I probably wouldn't

21:58

have answered the prayer that she.

21:59

Had and praying.

22:01

And so then I realized, wait a second,

22:03

how many people am I going through life? And because

22:05

I'm not showing up to my own life, I'm

22:08

missing opportunities to impact people

22:10

in the way that God has actually called me to impact

22:12

them, right, And so once

22:14

I realized that I couldn't, I

22:17

couldn't go back. I

22:19

couldn't go back to living my life the

22:21

way I used to live it because I've seen

22:23

now the ramifications of what it looks like

22:25

to treat every single person I'm

22:27

with as if it's the most important thing I'm ever going to do.

22:30

Okay, it changes things, so

22:32

good, so good, so good?

22:37

Do you mind if I fast forward as well

22:39

to relationship

22:42

and inter racial dating?

22:44

Okay?

22:45

In the criticism

22:48

or did you find yourself having criticism?

22:50

And if you did, what was

22:52

your process and didn't have anything to

22:55

also do with insecurity.

23:00

So I'm biracial.

23:02

My mom is white, my dad is

23:04

black, So in my

23:06

home like my sister's husband's Asian, my

23:09

brother's wife was Hispanic. Like my

23:12

family dynamic is very

23:15

multiracial, multi cultural,

23:18

So I never

23:21

it just didn't come up necessarily in my mind

23:24

about dating app well, almost anybody would

23:26

be outside of my race, just because I'm already biracial, but

23:29

dating outside of my race and my husband

23:31

I've known since I was in sixth grade,

23:33

so we have definitely

23:37

had people say things or

23:39

make comments. But it's in

23:42

my family culture that I'm in, and then

23:44

I also teach for the most diverse university

23:46

in the nation.

23:47

I'm just in a very.

23:50

Multi racial environment that it

23:53

has been very protective I think in a lot

23:55

of ways of our relationship, me

23:57

and my husband.

23:58

Anyway, Okay, okay, I

24:00

know the the referring

24:03

to a post that you posted about

24:05

your father and you

24:07

know walking down that aisle and what

24:09

it was for you. I know for

24:12

me, I grew up, of

24:14

course, in an all black household, went

24:16

to a private school and then public

24:19

school, and so I was surrounded by

24:22

multiculture. I was also

24:24

surrounded by relatives who had also

24:27

maybe consider okay, you dated

24:29

outside your race, and the

24:32

negativity that can come

24:34

with that. My own dealing my someone

24:37

I was engaged to white man,

24:40

and some of the blowback, you

24:42

know that I felt, I got it now. Majority was

24:45

love who you love, Go girl,

24:48

Let God use you, Let them be glorified,

24:51

you know what I mean. But sometimes you listen

24:53

to those naysayers a little louder, you

24:56

know, because I found myself

24:58

wanting to please every.

25:02

And even guilty of letting.

25:04

The entire world into that relationship,

25:07

which was a huge mistake, instead

25:09

of maybe stewarting that and

25:12

protecting that. And

25:14

so I just wanted to ask you,

25:16

you know, maybe to

25:19

advice for people who might date

25:22

someone or goal on a career path

25:25

that seems to be outside

25:27

of what everybody else is comfortable with you

25:30

doing.

25:31

I mean, I do want to say this about dating outside

25:34

of your race. I do

25:36

think it's really important that you're with somebody

25:38

who celebrates who you are

25:41

and is not asking you to change

25:43

or is not embarrassed the

25:45

way you may do things. Like I will say in my

25:48

relationship that has absolutely been very

25:50

key probably is that my husband

25:53

is incredibly supportive of not

25:55

just me, but my family background and our culture

25:57

and the way we do things that is different

26:00

than the way he grew up doing them.

26:02

So I think that's important for people.

26:04

How do we do things when

26:06

we don't have everybody's blessing over

26:09

it. That's tough, especially

26:11

for Christians, right because we look for the confirmation

26:14

of so many people to feel like, Okay, now I'm

26:16

fully in God's will. And

26:18

I think at the end of the day, you have to know the

26:20

voice of God. You have to know

26:22

what that sounds like for you.

26:25

Is it God calling me to this thing? Because I

26:27

can think of very rarely do

26:30

I do things without my parents'

26:32

blessings. I really respect my

26:34

parents. They've proven themselves in

26:37

my life to be people who fully love me and

26:39

support me. But there's been a couple

26:41

times that they disagreed

26:44

with a job I was going to take

26:47

or a city I was going to move to. And

26:49

at the end of the day, I had to put it before the Lord

26:52

and say, you raised

26:54

me to be somebody that listens to God above all

26:56

else, and God is calling me here.

26:58

And if you trust the

27:01

raising that you did of me, and you trust my character

27:03

I'm asking for your blessing none as I go,

27:05

and then I have to go right. So I

27:08

think we have to weigh that out. Is this something

27:10

that one or two people are saying no?

27:13

Too?

27:13

Is everybody saying no that you trust

27:16

with counsel I'm really big on mentorship and council

27:19

but are you. I have people that I

27:21

will put things out to that I trust as

27:23

much as almost I trust myself, and then I take

27:26

that feedback in absolutely.

27:29

Now I don't agree with someone just

27:31

talking to some of everybody because

27:34

maybe you're scared of.

27:36

A couple things.

27:36

I don't agree with you just talking to people who you feel

27:38

are going to tell you what you want to hear. I

27:41

also don't agree with you just talking to everybody

27:43

to vent and get it out, because then that's

27:45

where confusion comes, because now you've got

27:48

twenty perspectives when

27:50

there should only be maybe three trusted

27:54

counselors or people.

27:56

I feel like I'm going through something.

27:58

Right now, that my

28:00

therapist my

28:04

like person who's gonna

28:06

give me bible that

28:08

perspective, right, and

28:12

like a best friend who'll

28:14

tell me the truth period. Yeah,

28:17

But other than that, because I

28:19

can't vent to my therapist, like I will my best

28:21

friend just to you know, although

28:23

you have to be honest with your therapists chaunselor,

28:26

you know, And the same with my spiritual advisor.

28:28

I feel like there are things

28:30

that I even know to do in

28:33

the word. There are things I know to do through prayer.

28:35

But sometimes when you're just being human,

28:38

sometimes my pastor will be

28:40

like, now I'm gonna talk to you as your pastor,

28:43

you know, And I feel like you need that, And

28:45

I hope everybody listening to us has

28:48

that.

28:48

Be careful that you're not just telling

28:52

stuff.

28:53

Yeah, and if it involves another person,

28:56

honor that other person and kind of cover

28:58

them and not just blast what you might

29:00

be going through inter personally.

29:02

With about your coworker,

29:04

about your boyfriend, about your husband,

29:06

about your wife, kind of cover

29:09

you know, you know, be be cool

29:11

about that.

29:12

But you know, I can tell

29:14

when a person has talked to eighty people already

29:16

before they got to me.

29:18

And I think it's important that people that

29:21

we're asking people who are wise right

29:23

and have the fruit of that wisdom in

29:25

their own life, because sometimes we're asking people that you

29:28

don't you don't want advice from them.

29:29

Yeah, great, Like you, you might talk

29:31

to a pastor spiritual adviser.

29:33

That don't mean they have fruit in that air.

29:34

But I promise you that

29:38

there are people that they've got some fruit

29:40

for.

29:41

Sure in this

29:43

area.

29:44

And so I just think that's so important,

29:46

and I think that's a good suggestion of

29:48

what a person should do while they're waiting. Yes,

29:52

but they're breakthrough, Yeah, seek

29:54

counsel, what you're what you

29:56

do while you wait is so important

29:59

while you.

29:59

Wait, yes, And I just I

30:01

want essentially, I just want people to understand it's

30:04

always your turn. It's

30:07

always your turn to keep living your own life.

30:09

It's always your turn to keep showing up to your own

30:11

life. It's always your turn to keep believing

30:15

something for yourself, right, Like

30:17

you have to claim that your

30:19

anointing begins the day you believe

30:22

you have one.

30:23

You sure you're not a lack of songwriter.

30:25

On the lift, you

30:27

almost as they say, you got bars, You've

30:30

dropped a culp, shit, you've dropped a

30:32

couple. And so I am just

30:34

so appreciative of your encouragement

30:37

and of your time today.

30:39

What is brewing next? Yeah?

30:42

So yeah, my latest book is It's

30:44

not your turn. And then I have I'll see you tomorrow, which

30:47

is all about relationship.

30:49

So I think we have a lot.

30:51

Of really needed advice about

30:53

boundaries, which is all important, and

30:55

how to leave. But I'm really concerned that

30:57

people don't know how to stay, and

31:00

so I wrote a book about how do we stay?

31:02

How do we Essentially, we don't

31:04

get to have relationships

31:07

that span decades unless

31:09

we learn how to have conversations

31:11

about what it looks like to say I'll see you tomorrow.

31:14

I'm pissed, i am angry,

31:16

i am discouraged by what just happened, but I'm

31:19

committed to the idea of a relationship

31:21

with you because I value you as a human being.

31:23

I'll see you tomorrow, so I'm really

31:25

excited about that.

31:26

Wait wait, wait, wait wait, you saw my eyes get big?

31:29

Wait wait wait wait, I'll see you tomorrow. So

31:31

there are books that help people to uncouple

31:34

in a very positive way.

31:35

Yes, yes, which is important.

31:37

Which is important. And then now

31:39

you're writing a book. I'm

31:41

mad at you, but I'll see you tomorrow. We're going

31:43

to watch that's good. There's

31:46

a meme that says, I

31:48

don't care how mad you are, would be you better

31:50

come and pretzel with me you better, you

31:53

like you know. But I

31:56

think that's good because in the heat of the moment,

31:58

we might make her decisions.

32:01

Listens to this.

32:02

When we have a temporary feeling, we might

32:04

say it's over, I'm done.

32:07

Here's the real I've been the bad

32:09

friend, I've been the jealous friend,

32:11

I've been the bitter friend. And I'm so grateful

32:14

for people who forgave me. I'm so

32:16

grateful for people who recognize that it wasn't

32:18

a pattern, it was an incident. I

32:20

think there's a difference between

32:22

patterns and incidents. And at a time when we're saying

32:25

everybody's toxic, we're forgetting

32:27

that words mean things. That

32:29

toxic means something. It means every time I drink

32:32

from this well, I'm being poisoned.

32:34

Every time I'm with you, it's hurting me. That's

32:37

called the pattern. We should absolutely

32:39

break relational patterns,

32:42

but all people, because of the nature

32:44

of being a human being, are going to have incidents.

32:47

You're going to do something that pisses somebody else

32:49

off, and so then we have to say,

32:51

was this a pattern or is this a singular incident.

32:54

Have you seen a person break a pattern and

32:56

have a successful relationship with the same person.

33:00

I think pattern breaking,

33:03

well, I'm a Christian, obviously, I think pattern breaking

33:05

can be done. But I think the

33:07

person has to be willing to do that work.

33:10

You can't control somebody else, right,

33:12

Is that person willing

33:15

to do the work that's

33:17

required. Yep, And and so

33:20

that things have to be an individual basis

33:22

for sure, But on average, I think it's a

33:24

really good advice

33:26

to take. If you see a pattern, it's

33:29

not your job to try to fix somebody.

33:31

So good, Okay, yeah, better

33:34

listen. I'll see you tomorrow. That's

33:37

right, girl, I see you tomorrow. I'm so

33:39

excited. Thank you for being with

33:41

us today. Thank you so much for having

33:43

me. We'll see soon.

35:07

Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production

35:09

of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.

35:12

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