0:00

Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams,

0:02

a production of iHeartRadio and The Black

0:04

Effect.

0:18

What's Up, everybody?

0:19

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of

0:22

Checking In, y'all. It's going to

0:24

be a fun one. When you've got a longtime

0:26

friend that's checking in,

0:29

you are bound for laughs,

0:32

wisdom. I have no

0:34

idea what he's gonna share, but I'm so excited

0:37

to have award winning

0:39

television producer, my

0:42

personal friend, John Murray is coming

0:44

up next on Checking In. Y'all.

0:49

Welcome to another another fabulous

0:51

week of Checking In. I cannot do

0:53

what I do without you and your

0:56

continuous support and those downloads.

0:58

You gotta keep those downloads going. I'm

1:01

excited about today's episode because

1:03

I've got a dear friend, oh

1:05

going on a lot of number of years.

1:08

He has been a TV commentator,

1:11

executive producer, pop culture

1:13

expert. Once again, did I say executive

1:15

producer executive producer of the

1:17

Emmy nominated amazing

1:20

show, The Sherry Shepherd Show.

1:21

Please welcome my friend John

1:24

Murray.

1:26

I love that because you always say my name like we're on Bobby,

1:28

Joe, Bunny, judesus.

1:31

But John, he calls me, so

1:33

we talked, so he never gets to see how I look

1:36

when I said, John.

1:37

Murray, you know, since

1:40

we hear checking in, I'm just checking

1:42

into my checking in. Candles that I have from you

1:44

over here still smells really

1:46

good, so good that I haven't burned it yet because

1:49

you haven't sent me another one.

1:50

So black people, black

1:53

people, why don't we burn

1:55

the candles?

1:57

Sometimes they smell too good to birth. Sometimes

1:59

you just want, you know, burn

2:02

that.

2:02

Candle so you can get another one.

2:04

Yes, I need to go, and I do need to go and get

2:06

me another one. But it's wonderful. I love it so and

2:09

you said, I have it right here behind me, y'all.

2:11

He is sitting in his

2:14

office of The Sherry Shepherd Show.

2:16

So I'm so thankful for his time.

2:18

Is that? Okay?

2:19

Let me guess what it is? NAACP Award

2:21

in the back.

2:22

Oh, this little thing right here. Yes,

2:26

this is my NAACP Image

2:28

Award that I got for Season one of the Sherify

2:30

Show for Outstanding Talk Shows. One of

2:32

the executive producers, you get one

2:34

of the awards. So yeah, I'm very proud of this. You know,

2:37

there's another award on my other side. You can't see

2:39

it in the shot, but it's called the Telly

2:41

Award. So all of our digital campaigns

2:43

are something that we used to launch the Chevy Show.

2:46

We got recognized for this was the Telly Bronze

2:48

Award for a fun Joy and

2:50

Laughter and fun Joy Laughter was the

2:53

part of the campaign that also got us Emmy

2:55

nomination for season one. So we're

2:58

excited that folks have connected with our

3:00

little show that Could, and you know, one a

3:02

few wards nominated for some others. We just

3:04

got nominated for People's Choice Awards,

3:06

So we're just grateful that people

3:09

really are connected with our message.

3:10

You know, well, that's what

3:12

our relationship has been about. And

3:15

the relationship that you have with people translate

3:19

very well on television because that's just who

3:21

you are, a person that loves to have

3:23

fun, full of joy,

3:27

full of laughter.

3:29

I met John.

3:33

Two thousand and eight, so

3:37

the first time we met was brief. He was at one of the Soul

3:39

Traine Awards. You had just put out your solo album

3:41

Hard to Yours.

3:42

Oh, two thousand and two

3:45

one, and Tony

3:47

Ferguson, who worked at Sony Records

3:50

with your personal publicis Now You've Got No Shore,

3:52

was handling you at.

3:53

The Soul Train Awards. Tony and I were good friends.

3:55

He's a big champion of around when I started in the business, initially

3:57

as a writer, and so he knew

4:00

I always love people who could bridge the gap. You are

4:02

a church girl who's doing mainstream music, and

4:04

hearty yours was your fur way back into gospel

4:06

music. So he knew I wanted to meet you, and he

4:09

brought me up and introduced me to you. He was like, this is

4:11

your biggest fan, and he jokingly says, one

4:13

day y'all gonna get married. He was like, well, honey, where's

4:15

the ring? And we laughed and we

4:17

took a photo. And

4:20

then years later I

4:22

was at the opening of The Color Purple

4:24

in La so you might remember

4:27

that year better than me, and one

4:29

of the guys who was in the ensemble of the

4:31

show went to introduce us, and he was

4:33

like, I don't know who you are. You've been talking about

4:35

me on the town a boarding show. I've been hearing

4:37

you. I love when you talk

4:40

about me. And we laughed and he was like, here, stay

4:42

in touch with me. But you gave me your email address, not your telephone

4:44

number. And but

4:48

years later, you know, we built our

4:50

rapport and I remember there was something going

4:53

on in the industry that I was like, I want to give you some

4:55

insight on something, and I sent you an email and

4:57

you called me. I was on my way to the toront

5:00

Film Festival, because I remember I can

5:02

see myself sitting in the airport when we had our conversation

5:05

and we sat and talked, and

5:07

we've been talking on the phone ever since.

5:10

Y'all, listen, that's why you gotta be careful how

5:12

you treat people, because sometimes

5:14

they remember more. I

5:17

guess maybe the person that's on the receiving

5:20

end of various types of communication

5:23

remembers more.

5:25

I only gave you my email address.

5:27

And but listen,

5:30

boundaries, you've learned that over time, sometimes you

5:32

got to you know, you got to start slow with people on

5:34

the same way down. People will run up to me

5:36

on the street. Now, this

5:38

is a working in this business. I've always

5:40

had a level of notoriety, but being

5:43

in people's homes every day, it's a whole different

5:45

investment. Like people feel like they

5:47

know you. And because Sharry and I are friends

5:49

in real life, though I happen to be

5:51

the executive producer or her talk show, people

5:53

see our friendship, and they try to emulate that

5:56

when I run to them in the grocery stores and then

5:58

the target and places like that. And so

6:00

people can be really aggressive and run up for you. You'll

6:02

give me a number, And so I had to learn

6:04

how to establish boundaries because

6:07

you know, you know, sometimes you don't want the confrontation

6:10

of an aggressive Now though I'm very comfortable

6:12

with the word no, but sometimes

6:14

people can catch you in a weird predicament where

6:16

they put you on the spot and you're trying to navigate

6:18

out of it. And so Google Voice and those

6:21

telephone numbers have worked to create a

6:23

great alternative to the fact that no,

6:25

no, you can call this number. You

6:27

just hain't called the one that's you know, getting direct

6:30

access to me.

6:31

They go, get this number, yeah,

6:33

yeah, John, and I go as

6:35

far back to what

6:38

was known as AOL

6:41

Black voices.

6:43

Yeah, that was a good

6:45

time.

6:47

Such good times.

6:48

I always looked forward to

6:52

looking to see what was going to be

6:54

on AOL Black voices.

6:57

So you got your start. You are a writer

6:59

and me he was a writer journalist like.

7:01

Yeah, yeah, real journalisten.

7:05

Yes. I went

7:08

to an HBCU Norfolk State University,

7:10

inspired to go to an HBCU because I

7:12

love the sitcom A different world. And

7:15

I went to school and I would tell my professors,

7:17

I'm not learning any of the technical stuff. I gonna

7:19

be a star. I'm working in television. I only

7:21

need to learn how to work a camera. That

7:24

kid was so arrogant, even

7:26

though he wasn't. He just had a vision, you know. But

7:28

I had a professor that told me, he was like, listen, TV's

7:30

gonna be hard, and as a black man, it's

7:32

gonna be particularly harder for you to break into it,

7:35

and you need to think of a plan. B He's

7:37

like, you're a really good writer. So I started taking

7:39

journalism courses as my electives. And

7:42

the whole dot com boom was happening.

7:45

All the digital companies were happening.

7:47

Everybody was really thriving in the digital space.

7:49

And here I was a college kid who created

7:52

a newsletter after an internship at

7:54

a radio station in DC just started generating

7:56

national attention for me. It was based off

7:58

my middle name. It was called Garrick News. I

8:00

had to set up in a Hotmail account and

8:03

people would come to the radio station or come into my

8:05

market. They give me their email and you had to email

8:08

me to get added to my database because

8:10

it didn't have one of those lists serves and stuff like we

8:12

have now to send out newsletters and stuff like

8:14

that. So our master's database of

8:16

celebrities, and then sometimes

8:18

I signed it to my AOL account and

8:20

celebrities would hit me in the instant message

8:23

and then I'd have to hit some other celebrity I met and

8:25

be like, YO, is this such and such celebrities real message

8:28

chat name? But I had like

8:31

four major celebrity friends who

8:33

befriended me through instant message chat

8:35

because they love the work. And so the newsletter

8:37

turned into me working for a newsworter called euur

8:40

Web. I was there a short amount of time, and

8:42

then AOL had acquired Black Voices,

8:44

and I got approached about doing what was initially

8:46

a weekly column. And then when

8:49

the age of the blog came

8:51

about, they turned our weekly content

8:53

into like daily content to kind

8:55

of compete in the blog space. But my column

8:58

was one of the most successful columns there, and

9:00

so I left Norflea State before graduating

9:02

because the work and the money offers got so

9:04

good. I was like, how come I can finish

9:06

this up later? But my

9:09

writing career really took off, and here I am,

9:11

indeed at the time was in DC uh

9:13

and even though DC had b ET's

9:15

headquarters, TV one's headquarters, Discovery

9:18

had an office there. Serious had a headquarter

9:20

there before merging with Serious x

9:23

M. It was a political time and

9:25

I was able to make a national name for myself as

9:27

a writer. And one of the things that worked

9:29

for me was that, for the most part of a celebrity freely.

9:32

You know, sometimes celebrities would get mad if you just would

9:34

report the truth about them, as celebrities

9:36

often do. But I was, well,

9:39

you know, but

9:42

I cared more about the human nature

9:45

of celebrities than I did about the selacious

9:47

nature of stories and a headline

9:50

or what we now call clickbait of gotscha

9:53

moments, and having that level of

9:55

care for people and their humanity

9:57

early on, and maybe it was the church boy

9:59

and me, it has served me well my entire

10:01

career because many of those relationships that

10:03

started when I was just the writer continue

10:06

to flourish now and have even helped

10:08

me with booking some of the guests and calling

10:10

in some favors here to talk show.

10:13

Listen, let me tell you something. Everything

10:15

that he is saying is true.

10:18

I'm going to share this with you, y'all

10:21

remember those times I was co hosting

10:24

on the View or

10:26

the talk.

10:28

Meredith Vieira.

10:31

It is all because of John

10:33

Murray's insight, and

10:37

I have to thank him for

10:39

that, Like that is what I've

10:41

wanted to do, was to be

10:43

a co host on one of these talk

10:46

shows. And I believe it is going to happen

10:49

one day. But John

10:53

could have, knowing that that's something

10:55

that he wanted to do, he didn't have to

10:57

tell me that. He could have easily

11:00

just kept it to himself for

11:02

himself to be on there. And

11:05

we thought we were going to be doing Meredith Viera

11:07

together.

11:08

Yes, because people don't know it's in

11:10

this business, they do this thing called chemistry test,

11:13

which is like musical chairs of auditioning.

11:16

And so this one summer

11:18

week weekend it was we

11:21

all got brought into New York. At

11:24

the time, my agent was told I was

11:26

the only man up for the job because

11:28

I had gone in and met with NBC. They liked

11:31

me and they were like, we want to figure out something to do with him. So they

11:33

tried me out on Meredith Show. And after the

11:35

first appearance, they offered me more dates to come back,

11:37

and so I had done like twelve

11:40

appearances on her show prior to we

11:42

got to this secret test. But you and I never

11:44

worked together. They had you working with everybody else, they

11:46

had me working with everybody else. We never worked

11:48

together. But we did this secret test,

11:50

and I'll never forget. You were like, well, why do

11:52

I have to get there like three hours earlier than you?

11:54

And I was like, I don't know. And you went

11:57

there and they had you tested with another male entertainer.

12:00

Text me and he was like, such and such entertainers

12:02

there, but they not as good as you are on cameras,

12:04

so you could be fine. And I got

12:07

your text message and I text my agent. I said,

12:09

this is his job, and she's like, what do

12:11

you mean. I said, they know

12:13

what I do, they know why I'm here,

12:15

and they've misled us into believing that I was the only

12:17

man testing for this show. Now they brought this

12:19

other guy in at the eleventh hour. Somebody's called

12:21

in a favor. I'm gonna go and do what I do, but

12:24

this is somebody else's getting And that was the first

12:26

time you and I actually got to work together. And it was

12:28

a lot of fun.

12:30

It was tons of fun, y'all.

12:37

There is so much history here. I

12:39

want to respect John's time, but I also want

12:42

to respect everything

12:45

that he is. But I'm

12:47

going to go back to something that you said that is so important.

12:50

When you were in college, you were talking about

12:52

how you knew you wanted to be on TV,

12:55

but someone told you you probably

12:58

should also get into writing. What

13:00

do you think would have happened had

13:03

you been too arrogant or

13:05

prideful to take their suggestion.

13:08

I probably would have ended up like a lot of people

13:11

that I know who started

13:13

on the pathway to entertainment realized

13:15

that it was tough, and you know, you

13:17

start living life, you start making bills, you start making

13:19

babies, you start families,

13:22

and you have to support that financially. So a

13:24

lot of people needed to take jobs to

13:26

support their lifestyle,

13:29

and that caused them to have to avoid their dream.

13:31

And I was really blessed that the

13:34

plan b writing

13:36

open doors for me that I could not have fathomed

13:38

for myself. I was able to create my own

13:40

space. It was the quintessential

13:43

example of when time and preparation meet.

13:45

I was prepared for that moment,

13:48

but the timing of the business was wide open,

13:50

and I was someone who was able to make

13:52

space. And so it's been great to

13:54

see some of the people who now use social media

13:57

and digital media to make space and they're

13:59

having success and their bloggers

14:01

and their YouTubers and they're you

14:04

know, doing video content and stuff and cultivating

14:06

an audience with it, because that's what

14:08

I was able to do with the print medium at that time.

14:10

And so I was able to be a full

14:12

time writer for twelve years

14:15

and it opened doors for me. So I

14:17

was maybe four or five years into my writing career

14:19

when one day I got a call from an executive

14:22

named Sheila Eldert who said, Hey, the

14:24

Tom Jorder Morning Show is interested in adding

14:26

a younger voice to their show. They like

14:28

to test you out, and so they booked me for a

14:30

one off segment. I did the segment the same

14:32

day they made me an offer to join the show. So

14:35

I was aoll block Voices for seven

14:37

years. Six of those years I also was

14:39

on the time during the morning show. So I had this rock

14:42

star media life. One hundred

14:44

thousand frequent five miles a year, five

14:46

Star hotels, flyinding to

14:48

La taking the anitrak to New York to interview

14:51

top music stars and top Hollywood stars

14:53

because the industry respected my platform

14:56

and my voice. And one of the graces

14:58

that God gave me early into this thing was

15:00

I could sit with a celebrity they have done

15:03

twenty five interviews that day, and I would sit and have a conversation

15:05

with them. And the biggest compliment to give

15:07

a media professionalist, Oh my god, that's such

15:09

a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that before.

15:12

If I know, you know, I've done thirty interviews today

15:14

as a part of some press junket and you say

15:16

that to me, I've just gotten off like I'm my

15:18

ego is just like yes. But at

15:20

the end of these interviews, celebrities will say to me, there's

15:22

just something about you. You're different than the regular industry

15:25

guy. Can I give you my information and

15:27

listen? You know, I'm in my forties

15:29

now, so like I remember, there was a time

15:31

where you go out with a music artist and they'd

15:33

be like, yo, I got to hang out with you, or can

15:36

I call you for advice? Sometimes I'm thinking you

15:38

got Grammys and you calling me for advice, And

15:40

they would say, here's

15:42

my two way page number,

15:45

it changes every sixty days. If

15:48

it changes, called my Mama's house line,

15:50

and the cod word is Gertrude. If you say gert

15:53

true, She'll give you my new number and

15:55

then I'll make sure I hit you back. Well, it was

15:57

I remember like and I was nineteen

16:00

twenty years old hanging out with these bold

16:02

face named superstars just because

16:04

we'd have an authentic connection through conversation.

16:07

So it was a crazy time

16:09

in my life. But I never tried to

16:11

dishonor those relationships, and

16:13

again those relationships continue to serve

16:15

me to this present day.

16:17

That's so good because you have

16:20

a genuine passion for

16:23

all things entertainment, broadway,

16:27

film, television, music, everything

16:29

as it relates to the art.

16:31

You have a genuine passion versus

16:34

I don't know if.

16:35

It's because social media or what

16:37

it is. It makes me

16:40

scary about people's true intentions.

16:43

Oh yeah, yeah, And I got

16:45

into this business because I love the business. Listen. I

16:47

was a latchkey kid, you know. As a teenager,

16:49

we lived in a two bedroom

16:52

apartment. My mother worked, her husband

16:54

worked because her husband with my daddy,

16:57

and so I had to let my hope

17:00

in after school and

17:02

talk shows with my babysitters. Ricky

17:05

Lakeer was my babysitter, Orlanda Watch was my babysitter.

17:07

Mantel Williams was my babysitter. Sally

17:10

Jesse, Roelfaia, all those hosts.

17:13

It was my babysitters. And I fell in love

17:15

with this format. I fell in love with television.

17:18

I fell in love with the escapism that TV provided,

17:20

you know what I'm saying. I had that even

17:22

as a pretty team. I had an aunt that used to

17:24

babysat me, and when she

17:26

was babysit me, she loved to watch the vintage

17:29

talk show. So she would watch repeats of I

17:31

Love Lucy and leave It to bab And I

17:33

love the comedic storytelling

17:36

of I Love Lucy. And my favorite iteration

17:38

of that show is when Ricky went to Hollywood. And

17:41

so I always had these visions and fantasies

17:43

of getting to LA because I wanted

17:45

to do what Ricky and Lucy did

17:48

on those episodes. And you know, so

17:50

as kids were impressionable, you know, these

17:53

are the foundations that are stat and so I

17:55

had a clear vision that I wanted to get

17:57

into this business. And then once you started a business,

18:00

I came in this business and I was just a black

18:02

entertainment journalist. I could tell you what was

18:04

going on with black celebrities and music in Hollywood

18:07

and that was it. But I realized

18:09

in order to have greater successor you had to be broader,

18:12

and I'll never get two thousand and eight, I

18:14

was on the time during the morning show my AOL

18:16

column is Thriving. Star Jones

18:19

had a talk show on Core TV, and

18:21

she called me and told me, she says, I really want you to come

18:23

and do my show, and you know, start

18:25

war her where She's like, baby, you know, I know you

18:27

got this black stuff down on lock, but

18:29

I need you to be broader than that. So I'm having you come

18:31

on here talk about Britney Spears and a few people,

18:33

because you know you're an expert on them too. And

18:36

it stretched me. It requires that I

18:38

had to work a little bit. And the truth of the matter

18:40

is the storytelling was still the same I

18:43

you know, I always brought with and I tried to bring a

18:45

comedic aspect to my storytelling. That

18:47

was still the same. But if it requires that I did a little

18:49

research, which mean I always had to be well read

18:52

and I always had to study before I showed up

18:54

to do a segment. And so, you

18:56

know, just being prepared, doing your research

18:58

and having an appreci ciation for

19:01

every facet of the business really makes

19:03

you a well rounded talent because the

19:05

business changes. You know, I made a

19:08

real joke about how our celebrity would

19:11

give me their two way pager number. We don't

19:13

have two way pages anymore, you know what I'm saying.

19:15

Vinyls having a resurgence, but it went on a style

19:18

for a while. All of us used to have CD collections.

19:20

We don't know CDs anymore. This industry

19:22

changes and genres change,

19:25

and we used to have just linear

19:27

television and it would get twenty million viewers

19:29

on a TV show and now we have streaming

19:32

networks. And so you have to be versatile enough

19:34

to be in the pivot because if the sector

19:36

of the business that you're working in goes out of style,

19:39

what do you do next? If you're not well read.

19:42

That's so good preparation.

19:45

And we've both been in

19:47

this for so long and having to be

19:49

flexible and navigate even

19:53

through being prepared, and y'all, it's

19:55

been so much fun watching John throughout.

19:57

The years on CNN. Heck, the

20:00

BBC Meani.

20:01

There are times he would have to be ready

20:03

at all times of.

20:06

The O in the morning, absolutely

20:09

and.

20:09

Or night to talk about

20:12

even some of the biggest stars

20:14

to ever be on our

20:16

planet, like Michael Jackson.

20:19

So much stuff that has.

20:20

Happened, but you've

20:23

handled even some of the most scandalous

20:27

stories. You would insert

20:29

a joke here or there, and

20:31

you never I guess

20:33

you weren't the guy that was gonna come

20:36

even if you had the tea.

20:38

It's how you shared

20:40

it, especially if it was true.

20:42

Yeah. You know, one of my benchmarks

20:44

as a journalist was you're

20:46

not empowered by the stories you tell. You're

20:49

empowered by the secrets you keep. And

20:51

so for me it was always the long

20:53

game. There are

20:55

countless examples of people who had

20:58

a big scoop or big exclusive and they

21:00

knew it would get them huge traffic.

21:02

But then they walk into a room at a party and

21:04

nobody wants to talk about them, talk

21:06

around them, or once they'm there, because they don't

21:09

feel safe. There's nothing sacred about their

21:11

presence. You know, this space now has been

21:13

co opted by somebody who might see

21:15

something. Then they gonna go say something. You

21:17

know, for me, when

21:19

I was on and I was working. I'd identify that

21:21

I was working. If I sat down with you with a recorder in front

21:23

of you, I'm working. When we turned the recorder off, we talked

21:25

human to human and that was one of

21:27

my gifts. And so I remember there

21:30

were a couple of the bloggers

21:32

who started out in the business and they would reach out to

21:34

me for advice. And because when

21:36

I started doing entertainment news, there

21:38

really wasn't any black men in

21:40

the space. There were some women

21:43

and some folks who would come and were thriving.

21:45

You know, when I was a last key kid as

21:47

a teenager watching TV, I remember seeing

21:50

Tanya Heart on. You

21:52

know a lot of the talk shows would have entertainment

21:55

experts. On Friday, it'd be Tanya Heart, Flow,

21:57

Anthony, and every now and then you'd see Jamie Foster

22:00

Brown from Sister to Sister, and those were

22:02

like the three African American

22:04

people that I would see on television. And

22:06

when I started in the business, both Tanya and

22:08

Flow were exceptionally welcoming to

22:10

me and kind to me and offered me advice

22:12

on how to you know, just to break through,

22:15

you know what I'm saying, and so Both

22:17

of those are ladies who also had great relationships.

22:19

Flow is somebody who was very close

22:22

with the Jackson She considers LaToya Jackson

22:24

one of her best friends. I one time walked in

22:26

the barber Flow Anthony and Lena Richie

22:28

jumped up, and you would have thought it was Queen Elizabeth.

22:30

How excited he was to see her based

22:32

on their relationships. And Tanya Heart as a

22:34

woman who opened up BET's

22:37

West Coast bureau, you know, she, you

22:39

know, had gave Tupac

22:41

Shakur his first mainstream

22:44

interview and the documentaries and stuff

22:46

that you see now when you see this pretty light skinned

22:49

ladies sitting down having a conversation with Tupac,

22:51

that's Tanya. People who have relationships,

22:53

you know, they have celebrity

22:55

friends, and then they have friends that happen to be celebrities,

22:58

And so I looked at them,

23:00

and the other lesson that I learned

23:03

early on is that networking will take you

23:05

further than your skills and ability. Ever. Can we

23:07

all know talented people all over this country

23:10

sitting at home wishing that somebody

23:12

would take them off the sidelines and put them in the game.

23:14

And the truth of the matter is they haven't fostered

23:16

the type of relationships to give them

23:19

the access to be able to showcase what

23:21

they're actually able to do. And so learning

23:23

to network early on and then moving

23:25

with an integrity by being able to understand

23:28

as a professional, I can get what I get

23:30

and I can tell a really good story when

23:33

I was a journalist without having to violate

23:35

your trust, without having to disrespect

23:37

you, without having to shame you, you

23:39

know. And so I was able to do that

23:41

and again now in the

23:43

second act of my life, you know,

23:46

because before I became Shrey's executive

23:48

producer, you know, you mentioned some of the TV stuff

23:50

that I did. I think I walked away

23:52

from the writing part of my career and really just focused

23:54

on the on camera stuff. And so this

23:57

was the next iteration, you know, being able to be

23:59

one of the bosses behind the scene and go on to this journey

24:01

with Sherry and some of the same relationships

24:04

from the beginning of my career. I can call

24:06

those same celebrities if a publicist

24:08

is blocking them from coming on the show or they

24:10

want to send them to one of the competition show, I

24:13

can pick up the phone and say, remember

24:15

in twenty twenty seven, man, I'm

24:17

sorry when two thousand and seven when

24:20

you told me if I ever needed anything to call you, I'm

24:22

calling in my favor and you can't

24:24

call in favors and if you aren't good to people in

24:26

the early phases of those relationships.

24:29

Y'all, y'all want to talk about secrets.

24:32

John is so correct.

24:38

Weren't you on the phone when I was going through

24:40

a breakup?

24:42

Yes, I try not to ever

24:44

talk about that because it was but

24:47

that was on one

24:49

day. I wish there was a camera in your house because I

24:51

felt like if there was a camera in your house recorded

24:53

you, it was like there was perfect

24:55

audition tape for like if they ever did

24:57

like the movie version of Snaps, or

25:00

or if Tyler.

25:01

Perry won remember the role Tasha smith

25:04

Lane when she was the evil mother

25:07

girlfriend going nuts on it just Elba

25:10

and that movie.

25:12

There was a side of you I had never seen on that

25:14

phone, And I said, if she was recording

25:16

this, this is the audition tape. She ever means free.

25:20

And it's rare. It

25:22

is rare, But don't play

25:25

in my face. I'm trying to figure

25:27

out.

25:27

What I literally got on the

25:30

phone, and I called John because I

25:32

think I was in such disbelief. Maybe

25:35

it was just the audacity of this

25:37

individual. I can't recall,

25:40

but I just remember every now and then we

25:42

talk about that. But y'all, this is because of years

25:44

of relationship has been cultivated.

25:47

He has shown me that

25:49

I can trust him and vice

25:51

versa.

25:51

So I'm just thankful to.

25:53

Have somebody like that when I was going

25:55

through managerial transitions

25:57

and everything, not knowing who can can

26:00

I tell this to?

26:01

What can I do?

26:03

John Murray walked me through that. He's

26:05

walked me through so much, which leads

26:08

me to the fact that you've

26:10

talked about the safety and the relationships

26:13

that you.

26:13

Have with people. And I'm excited. We're going to get

26:15

to Sherry Shepherd.

26:16

In a moment, but talk about

26:18

the fact that you have been a coach

26:21

as well to a lot of talent on

26:23

how to be on television or

26:26

if something comes out

26:28

on them, you show them how to navigate

26:31

trouble or what could possibly be career

26:34

ending.

26:35

Yeah. One of the things listen, as

26:37

a writer, you learned early on you need multiple strings

26:39

of income. And so I was having a level of

26:41

success, but I want a greater success,

26:44

and so one of the things that I started

26:46

doing was media training and artists

26:48

development. And so what most people don't know

26:50

is, and you hear about it when you hear about the glory days

26:53

of Motown or the golden years of Hollywood,

26:56

how the studios will prepare the stars

26:58

on being stars, or how the record companies would

27:00

prepare the artists on how to present themselves

27:03

and how to talk to the public. And

27:05

so it went away for a long time,

27:07

but there were several record companies that started

27:09

to reinvest in their artists and

27:12

shout out to Karen Jackson, who

27:14

at the time was an EMI and then Motown.

27:17

She was somebody who really saw the need

27:19

to work on some of her artists, and so

27:22

they became a major client of mine. And on

27:24

the faith based side, I started to help artists

27:26

like Kiara Sheard and Tasha Cobbs

27:29

and Forever Jones before Doe

27:31

broke out to become a solo singer, and I

27:33

was working with jazz artists and R and B artists,

27:36

and then I had a whole crew of Hollywood

27:38

stars that would not do major

27:40

media appearances without begetting

27:43

them together. And so Sherry

27:45

Sheppard was a friend of mine and also a

27:47

client and so like the

27:50

we met at Doctor Bobby Jones. Funny

27:52

enough, I used to do a artists in the Treatment Price

27:54

a year in Las Vegas, and Sherry

27:57

was a big reader of my column. She came up

27:59

to me in the hallway one day. It was like, Hey, I know you

28:01

don't know who I am, but I'm a big fan of your work. And I

28:03

was like, oh, you're the little black actress on all

28:05

the big white sitcoms. Of course I know you. And

28:07

we became friends.

28:08

John and John really, John

28:11

really will say that like, yeah, that

28:13

line, go ahead, and she laughed.

28:15

And we had changed information and we became

28:17

friends. And so whenever Shery would

28:19

do appearances when she was co hosting the View,

28:22

sometimes whenever topics and stuff she wanted to

28:24

work through, she'd bring me on to

28:26

help her figure that out. If she had to go do a promo

28:29

run for a movie project or something, she'd have me

28:31

come and help her finessial sound bites and stuff. And so

28:33

what I did not realize then

28:36

was that it really was setting me up for my

28:39

life as a producer. It was now

28:41

it was teaching me how to get the best out

28:43

of people. It was teaching me how to connect with

28:45

people so that they could be their best And

28:48

so when I was so

28:50

prior to this executive producer run with Sherry,

28:53

I had done a bunch of consulting, producing for

28:55

some awards shows and some specials.

28:57

I had both produced and directed some episodes

29:00

TV ones Uncensored. But the

29:02

executive producer role is

29:05

you're the boss. You know, you hire your

29:07

fire, you have one of the final says on creative. You're

29:09

leading the team. And so there

29:11

were people when Sherry said

29:13

I will only go on this journey with John

29:15

that was looking like how did he get the leap fro of

29:17

all those people? And you know, how is he in this position?

29:20

And the truth of the matter is the late great Bill Getty,

29:23

who helps create the view with

29:25

Barbara Walters, he helps mentor me through

29:27

this process of going on this executive

29:29

producer journey along with Twitch. He was at

29:31

Ellen, along with Heather Gray who was at

29:33

the Talk, and along with my dear friend Kat

29:35

mackenzie who's at GMA three. But Bill

29:37

says something to me, He said, John, Throughout the course of

29:39

my career, I've seen celebrities give their

29:42

hairdressers executive producer

29:44

credits their Dog Walkers executive

29:46

producer credits. He said sometimes crazy

29:48

celebrities would sometimes want to give people EP

29:51

credits just to put money in their pockets so they wouldn't have

29:53

to pay them their salary directly.

29:55

He said, But you have a superpower here.

29:57

There's nobody who knows Sherry as good as

29:59

you do. There's nobody who's going to get the performance

30:02

out of her the way that you will because of that relationship.

30:04

And you, guys are going into a situation where people

30:06

who need to learn her and you're almost like the Sherry

30:09

whisperer. He says, that's an invaluable asset.

30:11

So he said, despite the fact that you know this genre,

30:13

despite the fact that you're great with people,

30:16

you're going to be a great leader, and you're really going to

30:18

help produce this wonderful content. If

30:20

they were just paying you for the relationship alone,

30:22

he said, it's worth every time. And it really

30:24

shifted my perspective walking into this space,

30:27

and it prepared me for a lot of what I was going

30:29

to encounter as we were embarking on the

30:31

journey of the Sherry Ship.

30:33

So so good, and you have

30:35

been walking with Sherry Shepherd for a

30:38

number of years in a four way

30:40

to some of the shows.

30:42

She was a call host.

30:44

On The View.

30:45

Well, and now you two she

30:48

if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm

30:50

wrong. I think she made

30:53

a promise like John, when I get my talk

30:55

show, you're coming with me.

30:57

Yeah. So you know, Shary

30:59

I had a very unique relationship because when

31:02

Cherry was approached to join The

31:04

View, she had agents, she had managers

31:07

and all that stuff. She said she was praying and

31:10

she asked, God, I want to talk to somebody who's

31:12

not on my payroll, and I really want

31:14

to get objective advice from them. And literally,

31:16

I was in Chicago. I was doing a speech

31:18

at Burrell Communications. I was out shopping,

31:20

walking down Michigan Avenue. Phone rings

31:23

and Sherry I answer it, and she told me about

31:25

her offer to join the View and we talked

31:27

about it, and that particular year

31:29

it didn't happen because they brought Rosie O'Donnell

31:31

on the show and they didn't want to add a second

31:34

co host. Fast forward about eight months

31:36

later, Sherry started guest co hosting

31:38

on the View again. The whole Rosie

31:40

and Elizabeth blow up happens, and

31:43

then all of a sudden, they're looking

31:45

to bring Sherry on the show again as a permanent co host

31:48

well her team at the time. The negotiations

31:51

didn't go very well and ABC took

31:53

their offer back from her, and Sherry

31:55

called me and she cried, she's really upset,

31:57

and I coached her on how

31:59

I thought she could resurrect the deal. I

32:01

basically told her, I need you to call Bill Gaddy.

32:04

I need you to share his heart, your heart

32:06

with him and tell him why the financials

32:08

the mathe' mathing. And so she

32:11

did exactly as I said. Bill

32:13

Gatty told her, if you take

32:16

this deal, the rest of the money's going to come,

32:18

and she said, those were the exact words I

32:20

had said to her, So it was almost like God was using

32:23

him to confirm what I said. The

32:25

deal happened, and the rest is history, and Sherry's

32:27

never made another major decision

32:30

in the entertainment industry again without talking

32:32

to me. So that set the foundation of

32:34

our relationship. When she went into guest

32:36

hosts for The Wendy Williams initially

32:39

in twenty and nineteen, Cherry said, Hey,

32:41

can you come in and help me in addition to

32:43

you just helping produce me, and my

32:45

approach to the questions, I want you to come and

32:47

help write the show, helped me structure the show,

32:49

and so I came in. I helped write her

32:51

monologue for the top of show, you know, helped

32:54

her with the guests and things like that. What most people

32:56

don't know is this particular company had offered Cherry

32:58

a deal in two thousand and nineteen to

33:01

embark on a talk show journey, and

33:03

things didn't work out. The pandemic

33:06

didn't happen, and so twenty twenty

33:08

one, Sherry happened to be in New York City.

33:11

She was filling in at the View that week for somebody who

33:13

was out all week, and she got a call to come

33:15

in and fill in for Wendy again. This was the season

33:17

which Wendy didn't have. Everybody was

33:19

guest hosting that particular season, and Sherry

33:22

called and said, do I really want to do this? This is something

33:24

I should do. And I said to her, Well,

33:26

don't look at it like you're going back to co host this time.

33:29

How about go in and do a five day pilot

33:31

shore America. What the Sherry Shepherd Show would look

33:33

like. You've been taking all these meetings people

33:35

are uncertain about the market. They

33:37

want panel shows. Let's show them that

33:39

you can do a single host show and that you can own

33:41

this space. And she said, well, I'll only do it if you come

33:43

and do it with me again. I came in five

33:46

shows. I helped her write the shows, you

33:48

know, and it was a tough time. We're coming out of

33:50

the pandemic. There are all these testing and

33:52

protocols, and we had to sit in the hotel for

33:55

hours and build out this show. And we

33:57

helped her hand pick each of the guests and the segment

33:59

that she did. And by the end of the first week,

34:01

the ratings were through the roof. The research was great,

34:04

and everybody was saying, this should

34:06

be the Sherry Show. And so Sherry came to

34:08

me and said, I know you're

34:10

talking to one of the news agencies about

34:12

coming on as a contributor. I know you're off for

34:15

another cable show, and I know

34:17

this big company's talking to you about a podcast.

34:19

What would it take for you to walk away from everything

34:21

that you have going on to come on this journey

34:24

with me? And I said, well, I got to pray about it

34:26

first, and so I came back to her the next

34:28

day and I said, listen, come on this journey

34:30

with you. If I at this title,

34:33

if I have these responsibilities, and if

34:35

they pay me my money. And she said, cool, I

34:37

won't have a deal unless you have a deal. And

34:39

Sherry called our team and said, listen, until

34:42

John's dealer is done, don't send me a contract.

34:45

And she also had an offer so she

34:47

could either do a sitcom or she could do a talk

34:49

show. Shit options. And she said, I'm

34:51

only doing the talk show and John is a part

34:53

of it. She says, because I serve it up. This

34:55

is his vision. He's the one who made it look good. And

34:58

so my deal was fin only done.

35:00

And you know, it's been an

35:02

interesting journey. I wouldn't have I

35:04

wouldn't necessarily walked

35:07

away from as much as I had going on to do this

35:09

with anybody else. But in hindsight,

35:11

it's really been a blessing. And I think it's a blessing

35:14

because this whole opportunity has

35:16

been ordained by God.

35:17

Absolutely, was

35:20

it tough to have that conversation with

35:22

Shrey because she's your friend, Like

35:25

that was a tough conversation, Like Sharry, I'll

35:27

come, but I gotta have this title.

35:29

I gotta get paid. This mine, I gotta do this.

35:31

Like you're always good at

35:34

having tough conversations.

35:36

You weren't nervous, you know what.

35:38

I think maybe ten years ago would

35:40

have been nervous. Maybe six years ago i'd have been nervous.

35:43

Let me say the mind space I was in in twenty

35:46

twenty one when we had this conversation, I

35:48

would never faced as much rejection as

35:50

I had in my life until I walked away

35:52

from being a writer in a radio personality to

35:55

live my dreams in television.

35:58

The truth of the matter is, and I'm

36:00

not speaking out of the turn, It's widely reported

36:03

and times Up and moments

36:05

like that have really kind of shown that

36:08

the television business and entertainment

36:10

and hole is still really controlled

36:12

by a bunch of very old

36:15

white men, and sometimes

36:17

people of color and diverse people

36:20

aren't always the flavors of the month. And

36:22

so I went through a phase where I would go in and

36:24

meet with the executives and they like, you're amazing,

36:26

You're so great, but you're

36:29

broad and I don't know what to do with you. Why I'm

36:31

broad because I wouldn't study broadcasting, and

36:33

so doing me what you did with Tom burg

36:35

Rock or doing me what you did with Regis filming,

36:37

or do with me what you did with my white count of parts that seemed

36:40

to get all the jobs. And during this particular

36:42

phase when I'd have these meetings and stuff, it felt

36:44

like only black NFL players

36:47

and black comedians were getting the jobs,

36:49

and so it was a tough place to

36:51

come down to me and somebody else. And then the one they

36:53

caught the football got the gig, or

36:55

they say we're looking for Michael Strahan

36:58

type, then they just hire Michael Strahan. And

37:00

the one time I met him, I was like, can you stop

37:02

taking every job so somebody

37:04

else can work? And he laughed. And

37:07

so all that was going on, and then

37:09

the pandemic hit and nobody was working, and I

37:11

really took the pandemic and did

37:13

some self work. I really tried to empower

37:15

myself and better myself and

37:18

really connecting with people who were

37:21

enriching and encouraging, and somebody

37:23

who was so pivotal and keeping

37:25

me in carriage doing that season my life with somebody

37:27

you've had on the show. Doctor J Barnett

37:30

just a good brother and

37:33

has a really great gift

37:35

of being able to pour into people right

37:37

in the time that they needed. And so by

37:39

the time twenty twenty one came around, I

37:42

had heard Robin Roberts do an interview where she

37:44

said optimism is a muscle

37:46

that gets stronger put the practice,

37:49

and something about her saying that shifted

37:51

me, because they say, if you do something

37:54

for twenty eight days, it becomes normal

37:56

for you. And so I decided I'm

37:59

going to try twenty days of optimism

38:01

because I want to make that my new norm. And

38:03

so literally, every day, starting in

38:05

May of twenty twenty one, I woke up with

38:08

this blind anticipation that some good news was

38:10

coming my way. I woke up

38:12

every day just I would pick up my phone

38:14

to see if it was a text message or an email.

38:16

I would check out voicemail to see if it was a job offer.

38:19

I believe that something good was coming in

38:21

my way, coming my way. And the

38:23

first few days it was silly. I'd wake up with this

38:25

smile on my face. Yeah, I go looking for these

38:27

messages. But I did it until

38:30

it became comfortable. It became my norm.

38:32

And so by the time Sherry and I are

38:34

having this conversation, which is November of

38:36

this year, there have been so many great

38:38

things that had happened that summer

38:40

leading up until this point, and so I

38:43

was so confident and

38:45

what God was about to do in my life and

38:47

what I was manifesting by my own

38:50

goodwill and my own optimism,

38:53

that I was so comfortable having this conversation

38:55

because I knew I had options

38:58

and if I was going to go on a journey

39:01

that I knew wasn't gonna be comfortable for me, that

39:03

I was walking with some people that didn't want me to

39:05

be there, and that I was gonna have to catch

39:07

the bullets that Cherry would never see.

39:10

That I needed to be able to do it with the cushions

39:12

of knowing when I leave

39:14

here, I have this title, my

39:16

bank account, I have this amount of money, and

39:19

all the other elements will work together, because

39:21

I need to have those things to

39:23

make up for what I'm losing in some mental

39:25

mind space. Because it's a

39:27

lot that you take on and go on a journey like this.

39:29

You know, John, you just gave somebody

39:32

here something that they probably

39:35

need to do. For twenty

39:37

eight days, they've been trying to figure out, what is

39:39

this secret to my success?

39:41

How am I gonna make this transition,

39:44

How is this dream gonna come true? But

39:46

maybe sometimes our mindset, maybe

39:48

we wake up being negative,

39:51

we have negative conversations, We're

39:53

surrounding ourselves with negative people,

39:56

and maybe, just like you said, waking up being

39:59

opt a mystic. Come on, Sounds of

40:01

Blackness sings the song Honey be Up.

40:04

They save the blueprint and really

40:07

we You know, there was a time on

40:09

the Opera show where they were talking about the secret, and

40:12

the secret dealt with manifestation. You

40:14

know, if you were in the Pentecostal church, they would say, name

40:16

it and claim it. Everybody

40:19

has an iteration, you know, of

40:21

what you put out is what you get back. And

40:24

I put out the anticipation that

40:26

there was a blessing coming my way, that the opportunity

40:29

was coming my way. And if

40:31

I would have stayed in the space of well,

40:34

I'm about to go ahead and lose another job to another

40:36

football player. Uh, it's coming down

40:38

to me and somebody else used to be in a boy band.

40:40

They're gonna choose him again, even though he can't talk

40:42

that well. I would have become

40:44

so cynical and so negative

40:47

that I would not have been open to receive

40:49

the blessing. That came in. I'm

40:52

a great example of state of chorus, like,

40:54

yes, my act one is a writer and

40:57

as a radio personality. I was twenty

40:59

five years old and I joined the number one

41:01

and the first nationally syndicated black

41:03

morning show to ever be successful with time

41:06

join the morning show. For some people, that was

41:08

the dream. For me, that was just cracking the

41:10

surface because I knew that was just one

41:12

more step and what I wanted to do, you

41:14

know, And when I started taking

41:16

my TV meetings and stuff, I have to tell people all

41:18

the time. You know, you meet with these executives.

41:21

I don't care how long your resume is and how much

41:23

you've done. They've never heard of you before. And

41:26

you go in and you have to sell yourself to them.

41:28

And so, by

41:30

the way, what is our good friend Isaac say? Never

41:33

heard of them?

41:33

Never heard of them. But I go on

41:35

to meet with these executives, the ainy't say, so, tell me about

41:37

yourself, And I was like, I want to be the black Regis Fielman, And they

41:40

go, oh, because they could understand

41:42

that. I feel like I want to be the black Tom brgul Round. I love

41:44

his versatility. Oh

41:46

but what I didn't know then that I know now

41:49

is being the Black Regions Filming would have been

41:51

fun and I could have done it and made a whole lot of money.

41:53

It is so much rewarding being the black Michael

41:55

Gelman Michael Gelman is the executive

41:58

producer who produced the show that Regis was and

42:00

he's sometimes on camera and so you see

42:02

him enough that you recognize him and you know him.

42:05

But he has the power to be able

42:07

to take people off the bench and

42:10

put them in the game. And there have been some

42:12

folks that I used to test against for shows,

42:14

or I've seen them work. I respect

42:16

their work, and all of a sudden we're launching some new

42:18

franchise, I'm like, you know what, you'd be good

42:20

for that? And then having the ability

42:23

to take some correspondent or some

42:25

hosts or somebody who I know only needs

42:27

an opportunity and knows somebody who sees

42:29

them for the value that they bring and give

42:31

them an opportunity and they have that looking at how like

42:34

thank you like I used to when somebody

42:36

gave me an opportunity.

42:37

Best feeling in the world, John, not

42:40

only I believe was it your optimism

42:43

that landed you the role of being

42:45

the executive producer of one of

42:47

the most refreshing daytime

42:51

talk shows, which is The Sherry Shepherd

42:53

Show.

42:53

But I believe it was the seed so

42:56

prior.

42:57

Like you said, for telling me and

42:59

the host of others, Hey, there's

43:02

gonna be some opening slots coming on. Make

43:04

sure you get your management and your agent,

43:06

you know, make sure you know you know about

43:08

it. And sure enough John what lie

43:11

and he knew what he was talking about, and

43:13

so I believe it was that too.

43:15

I also believe just how you treat

43:17

people matter so much. If

43:20

y'all don't take anything away from this conversation

43:23

too, how you treat people along the way

43:25

can determine your future. So

43:28

I am not dismissing the optimism

43:30

that you did for the learning of Days, but

43:32

I think it was so much that you

43:35

did along the way.

43:40

I wanted to ask about diversity.

43:42

You kind of touched on it a little bit, and then,

43:45

as they say, I won't keep your bear, I.

43:47

Won't hold you much longer.

43:49

But I'm just excited to see

43:51

I mean, hey, we looked at the Emmys,

43:53

how many of us were up winning

43:56

holding that trophy, which

43:59

gives me so much hope. But you probably

44:01

you know a little bit more on the inside

44:04

or the algorithm of what's going on

44:06

on the inside of black hosts,

44:08

black executive producers. Do

44:11

you think it's getting better in that area

44:13

of diversity?

44:14

You know, in front of the camera, it's

44:16

been It's been better for a long time.

44:19

Hollywood still has a pay inequity when

44:21

it comes to people of color and

44:23

our white counterparts, and

44:25

that's something that I think everybody's working

44:27

to eradicate. We've seen Taraji

44:30

be very vocal recently about,

44:32

you know, the pay disparity between her and some of her

44:34

white actress counterparts, O Tavia

44:37

Spencer, Biblea Davis, They've all talked about

44:39

it. But I do think the

44:41

ability to work. I mean, listen, there was a time where

44:44

h in black Hollywood in particular, the

44:46

only roles you could get were in

44:48

Tyler Perry movies and TV shows

44:51

because being black was not the flavor

44:53

of the month in Tintotown. They didn't

44:55

see the value in us. And so but

44:58

then you know, shortly thereafter you have Shonda

45:00

Rhimes who emerged and with

45:03

Scandal, and Kerry Washington and How to

45:05

Get Away Work Murder, and Viola

45:07

Davis and all of this diversity

45:09

started to come back, and in the hosting space,

45:12

black women have had it really, really good

45:14

for quite a while. I mean, at one point

45:16

there were almost like ten black female holes

45:18

on TVs, whether panels or

45:21

solo shows or even some of the news shows.

45:23

If you look at two of this most successful

45:26

morning anchors, you have Robin Roberts

45:29

and you have Gail King and I'm

45:31

not sure exactly holding

45:34

a copy's nationality

45:36

breakdown, but she's a woman of color. And

45:38

so diversity has been particularly

45:40

good for the women. It's been a little

45:42

slower for the brothers.

45:44

Black men.

45:45

Yeah, the opportunities have been a

45:47

little slow. And I think part of the reason why

45:49

I'm grateful for Cherry is that

45:51

that very few black men have rose

45:54

to the level of executive producer at day

45:56

time. There are lots of black women who've achieved this milestone,

45:59

but black men, this isn't our

46:01

norm. And so you know, you had Rashan

46:03

McDonald who did it with Steve Harvey,

46:06

you had Twitch who did it at Ellen,

46:09

and there may have been a few others whose

46:12

names I just don't know. But even when

46:14

I talk to some of the journeymen and producing

46:17

in this format. In particular, they can't

46:19

name you a lot of black men to

46:21

do this work, and so I didn't realize I was walking

46:24

in such rare fied air until I got

46:26

in this space and people began to connect with

46:28

me. You know, I want this

46:30

business to start to look more like our country,

46:33

which is a very inclusive

46:35

country. You know, jokingly,

46:38

I tell people, but it's the truth. I never

46:40

saw an episode of Friends because

46:43

it was based in New York City and none of the Friends

46:45

look like me, and anybody who's been

46:47

to New York City on any street corner at any

46:49

given time, it looks like the United Nations

46:52

is having a session in this city because

46:55

it's just such a diverse and inclusive

46:57

city, and their studies and all

46:59

type data that support that when

47:01

projects and films and TV shows are

47:03

very diverse, they just performed better

47:06

with an overall audience. And the sooner

47:08

the industry catches up with the stats

47:10

of it all, I think they'll continue to have more

47:12

success. You know. I think streaming has

47:15

offered an alternative because a lot

47:17

of these streaming apps have these series

47:19

that are very diverse and inclusive, and people

47:22

were looking for something that was a little more refreshing

47:24

that also looked like them, And I'm

47:26

hoping that we continue to make some milestones.

47:29

And seeing the Emmys, you know, you had

47:32

two agent actors who

47:34

I think had historic wins. You had Quintin

47:36

Brunson who won an

47:38

inby in a category that had not been

47:41

won since nineteen eighty one, when

47:43

Isabelle Samford won for playing Weezy on

47:45

The Jeffersons. It is twenty twenty

47:48

four and someone had

47:50

not won in the category that was a black

47:52

woman of nineteen eighty one.

47:54

So for all the progress we've made, there's still

47:56

a lot to be done. And I'm hoping that I

47:58

can just move the card of the

48:00

heel a little more, that I can have an impact

48:03

on that. You know, Yes, John

48:07

and Michelle, let me say this to you. We

48:09

were talking about versatility and stuff. There

48:11

is nobody who's been more versatile than you.

48:14

One of the things that I really respect about

48:17

the Destiny's Child story is

48:19

that each of you all have come out of this

48:21

thing with your own lane. You

48:23

know, the Supremes.

48:26

Mary Wilson had a solid career, but

48:28

many of the other women that came through the Supremes

48:30

did not have the same level of success

48:33

as either Mary or Diana Ross.

48:35

And you know you decided you

48:37

wanted to conquer theater. You

48:40

know, wanted to get back to your roots and do gospel.

48:42

But you have one of the best dance records. And I

48:44

know I talked your head off about your dance records,

48:46

but you have one of the best dance records that

48:48

was right before its time because you did

48:51

this dance record and all of a sudden, everybody else was

48:53

dancing. And as an

48:55

actor and as a TV host, I

48:57

mean you hit multiple sectors.

48:59

You're an invest and a WNBA team.

49:01

You don't talk about your entrepreneur endeavors.

49:04

And look what Kelly has done. You know, she

49:06

went and conquered the international market. She

49:08

too was one of the first a partner

49:10

with the DJ and had one of those big euro smash

49:14

records. And her acting

49:16

and her work with brands, I mean,

49:18

she's become one of the brands. Kelly always

49:20

selling a dag On product is so it's

49:23

bad. Well, it's something, you know,

49:25

it's something. But seeing how

49:27

you all have become all these multi hyphen

49:29

its and you work a win and how you want

49:32

to and only do projects that are

49:34

rewarding and serve you well. It speaks

49:37

to the choices and the versatility that

49:39

each of you all have had too. So I couldn't

49:41

have you talk about me being versatile. And

49:43

I've had these multiple iterations with I'm putting

49:46

the mirror on you and reflecting on the fact that

49:48

you've done a dag on good job of doing it yourself.

49:51

John, as our good

49:53

friend, Tim says, my g that

49:56

was so kind.

49:58

Thank you.

49:59

I said so many names

50:01

because we just have so many mutual friends.

50:04

This episode has been an absolute

50:08

masterclass.

50:09

John.

50:09

I really hope you do something

50:12

this year or next year. Just

50:15

John Murray presents, I just

50:18

sitting here listening to you is just

50:20

give me so many memories. It's

50:22

letting me know what persistence, being

50:25

consistent, being nice, what

50:28

being prepared and

50:30

being optimistic what it

50:32

can do. We are so excited

50:35

about Sherry Shepherd's these

50:37

upcoming season.

50:38

You're in season what it.

50:40

Is, our second season. We are at the halfway

50:42

mark. You know, we'll be doing original episodes

50:45

through like late May sometime early

50:47

June, and you know, we got picked up

50:49

for two seasons, so we'll be starting

50:52

it all over again in season three and so I'm

50:54

just grateful that people. I'll

50:56

tell you this real quick. We had an eighty one year

50:58

old woman come to the show. She's

51:01

been going through a cancer procedure. She

51:03

just finished her first round of it, was about to go through

51:05

a second, and she said, I have my two daughters

51:07

bring me to this show because I told them

51:10

I need to experience this joy in person. And

51:12

then we got another letter from a lady who gets chemotherapy

51:14

on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays, and she

51:16

said she schedules her appointments around the

51:19

airing of our show because while she's going through the worst thing

51:21

in her life, we give her the escapism she needs.

51:24

So I

51:26

said in that Forbes article that

51:28

recently came out on me that I feel like we're

51:30

in the ministry of joy and laughter,

51:33

that we're connecting and inspiring people

51:35

and non traditional ministry. But to

51:38

know that you're offering people something that not

51:40

only just connects with them, makes them laugh and

51:42

gives them an hour of escapism, but

51:44

people are scheduling their medical appointments

51:47

because you're serving their soul in the way they

51:49

hadn't. It's the most rewarding thing

51:52

and one of the greatest aspects of doing this work.

51:55

That's so good.

51:56

I would say, do you have any party

52:00

words that you want to say to people?

52:02

Because my podcast, you

52:04

know, the foundation of it has been mental

52:07

health and everything that you've said

52:09

should definitely bright somebody's day.

52:12

Even in the Forbes article, you share

52:15

things about your father not being

52:17

in your life, and you know.

52:19

Things like that.

52:20

But you're here and we're talking

52:22

today. What do you have to share to people

52:25

who might kind of be struggling

52:27

a little bit today.

52:28

Yeah, listen. If you've got dreams, goals

52:30

and aspirations, I tell you to stay the course. TV

52:33

host personality Bevy Smith has

52:35

a phrase where she says, it gets greater later

52:38

and so often, and particularly because of social

52:40

media, we feel the pressures of having that microwave

52:42

success you put in sixty seconds of voilat.

52:45

But the truth of the matter is, and

52:47

I stole this line from a comedian in Coco Brown,

52:50

some of the best meals you can get they come

52:52

out of a crockpot. And so they're these

52:54

people who you they look like their

52:56

overnight successes, but they've been putting

52:58

in twenty years. You know you're taking

53:00

you set that meat in your crack pip before

53:02

you leave the office and let it cook for eight days.

53:05

Now you come home and it's the most tender. There

53:07

are a lot of things that I wanted to do early

53:09

on in my career, and I can't tell you that I

53:11

was mature enough or would have had the responsible

53:14

nature of being able to sustain the financial

53:17

benefits of this work. But now,

53:19

as a man in my forties, I have to

53:21

say I understand and

53:23

appreciate every milestone of this journey.

53:27

I understand the importance of this journey,

53:29

and I appreciate the blessing of

53:31

being able to walk in this elevated

53:33

space now more than ever before.

53:36

And so I tell everybody stay the course, work

53:38

with integrity, and be kind to people.

53:40

Anybody that tells you that you can't be a leader

53:43

or you can't have success. And you

53:45

also can't be kind to people as somebody who's

53:47

lying or they're intentionally nasty

53:49

just because. But I remember

53:52

before the whole slat with Chris Rock, will

53:54

Smith was one of the greatest Hollywood

53:57

stars I'd ever encountered, because

54:00

I don't care where I was, and when you

54:02

saw him, he would go out of his way to speak to you.

54:04

He would make you feel like you were the only person in the room.

54:06

He would remember your name, and

54:08

there was just something about him. And you

54:11

don't have to be this successful and

54:13

this kind, and yet he was. And

54:15

so I said that to say that you can have

54:18

a level of success. You can reach

54:21

your goals and your dreams and your beliefs

54:23

and thriving business, and you can also be

54:25

nice to people. I promise you it's easier

54:27

to be nice to most people, not

54:30

as I said, most people, right, most people.

54:32

You did say that it's

54:35

easy, got easy to be nice.

54:37

We should be kind to all people,

54:40

but it's easier to be nice to most.

54:43

And if you don't know how to be nice,

54:45

and you apply to that twenty eight day having rule that

54:47

I told you, well, you practice being nice

54:49

for twenty eight days, so that can become your

54:51

new normal. Come on to somebody.

54:54

You talking right, y'all? He

54:56

said, and

54:58

did he has said.

54:59

So this whole episode

55:01

deserves its own praise break John,

55:04

Thank you for checking in.

55:06

It's my pleasure anytime you need me to check it in the fouture.

55:09

I'm here for you, all right, my dude,

55:11

love you so much. We'll talk again soon.

55:17

Listen. I'm blessed. I

55:19

am so blessed.

55:22

I've had some of the most amazing

55:25

conversations today, John

55:27

Murray being one of them.

55:28

I'm so thankful for relationship.

55:31

Along the years, one of

55:33

my truth tellers, and

55:36

I'm so glad to see him rise. I'm so

55:39

excited to see him sore and

55:41

live his dreams. And

55:43

I pray you have friends that they're

55:46

excited to see you sore, excited

55:48

to see you rise as well.

55:50

If you don't, you've got the wrong

55:52

circle of friends.

55:54

And so if you can also put

55:56

into practice when he was talking about those twenty

55:58

eight days of options to miss, I'd

56:01

love to see.

56:02

How it's working out for you. Know

56:04

that I love.

56:05

You and thank you again for

56:08

listening to this amazing episode

56:11

of Checking In. Checking

56:23

In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio

56:26

and The Black Effect. For more podcasts

56:28

from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio

56:31

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56:33

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