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30% off some exclusion supply. Peace

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of the Plan and Charlemagne to

2:33

God here. And as we come

2:35

closer to closing out this year,

2:37

I just want to say thank

2:39

you for tuning into the Black

2:41

Effect podcast network. There have been

2:43

so many great moments over the

2:45

past year. Take a listen to

2:47

some of those captivating moments in

2:50

this special Best of episodes. Y'all

2:52

listen. I am very excited to

2:54

have on checking in Pastor Mike. Todd.

2:56

I am so excited to be here

2:58

with you. I feel like you're my

3:00

sister. We got to meet for just

3:03

a little moment in Atlanta and it

3:05

was like, where have you been all

3:07

my life? And it's just really one

3:09

of those cool, cool moments to connect

3:12

with people who actually care about doing

3:14

the inner work as well as all

3:16

the things that are happening in public.

3:18

So yeah, I wrote a book about

3:20

relationship goals about me and my wife

3:23

who I've been dating since I was

3:25

14 years old is when I met

3:27

her. and literally all the ups and

3:29

downs, trials, tribulations, crazy moments, and our

3:32

story of redemption. And just some things

3:34

that people could be helped in relationship

3:36

because people kind of fell at that

3:38

a lot in this day and age.

3:40

And I put it out in the

3:43

middle of a pandemic. I'd never written

3:45

a book before. I barely passed math

3:47

and English in high school. So it

3:49

was like, I mean, let me just

3:52

share something that I think is valuable.

3:54

And I mean, it went crazy and

3:56

people bought it all over the world

3:58

and to think that's the first time

4:00

I've heard the two million number that's

4:03

ridiculous like the fact that that book

4:05

has gone on I just pray that

4:07

it's a blessing to people for a

4:09

long long time and help people win

4:12

in marriage dating and sex that's it

4:14

and he smelled really big to when

4:16

he got say that because he got

4:18

somebody he gets to go home to

4:20

his wife glory to the living God

4:23

listen listen listen listen listen listen And

4:27

I have, it wasn't, it wasn't,

4:29

it wasn't, y'all listening, it wasn't

4:31

under your business, but yes. Okay.

4:33

Anyhow. Another fact is that you

4:36

are the lead pastor of Transformation

4:38

Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I am.

4:40

I love it. And. There's so

4:42

many ways I can go. Relationship

4:44

goals. The faith testimony of how

4:46

you guys acquired the building and

4:48

just your whole journey, it would

4:51

take hours to talk about it.

4:53

But I also want to tell

4:55

people, y'all, he is a phenomenal

4:57

musician, producer. I say musician, Michelle,

4:59

you're doing too much. You're doing

5:01

too much. We're here to talk

5:03

about damage, but not destroyed from

5:06

trauma to triumph. I get it

5:08

and we gonna get there. But

5:10

y'all, he's more than, um, pastoring

5:12

is his. That's my heart, man.

5:14

And we'll talk about a choice

5:16

that you might have had to

5:18

make. Okay, let's just, let's do

5:21

that. The choice that you possibly

5:23

had to do it. The choice

5:25

that you possibly had to make

5:27

to lay down music to go

5:29

into ministry. Now music can be

5:31

ministry, but I'm just saying in

5:33

the form of ministry that you

5:36

have now, you had to lay

5:38

down the desire to be the

5:40

artist and producer musician. So part

5:42

of my journey is I tell

5:44

people all the time, you are

5:46

not what you do only. And

5:48

a lot of people, so many

5:51

times they wrap their entire identity

5:53

off of whatever became successful. And

5:55

one of the things that I

5:57

know- Oh, we walk in heavy.

5:59

six minutes in. Oh, I thought

6:01

we we was I thought we

6:03

came to do Like it like

6:06

I thought it this was that So

6:08

we could go all the way in. And so, whatever successful, they

6:10

think they think that's where

6:12

they should rest all of their identity

6:14

and purpose. I But the one thing

6:16

I learned very early on is that

6:18

God never gives people just one seed. so

6:20

He gives so many seeds on the

6:23

inside. It depends on what you water.

6:25

And on the inside of me, there were

6:27

so many seeds, music and speaking and creative all

6:29

all these things. And I decided that that

6:31

a young age, I was going to water

6:34

all of them. all And so when the

6:36

fruit started coming from all of them,

6:38

I had to make a decision. I had to

6:40

make a ask to what was my

6:42

assignment, not my opportunity? not a

6:44

lot of people right now of

6:46

people right now are they have so

6:48

many opportunities and they don't know

6:51

what an assignment is. is. And where

6:53

I'm here to really tell this generation

6:55

that you only can get an assignment from

6:57

God. But if you good, you can

6:59

have tons of opportunities. good, so have my, my

7:02

journey took me to a place where

7:04

the greatest thing that I do is never

7:06

what can I do? It's what does

7:08

God want me to do? what does God want me

7:10

think a lot of people are off

7:12

right now a offer me a lot of

7:14

money to do something I'm good at

7:16

but I knew it wouldn't be in

7:18

my assignment money so that thing wouldn't

7:20

be blessed for me but I so I

7:22

just know that for me that's what

7:24

happened in the and ministry. I would have would have

7:27

been successful as a music producer I

7:29

probably would would third album third album. I probably would

7:31

of those all of those different things. And now still

7:33

an opportunity opportunity. I would have been there, would have been

7:35

I would have been there but at the

7:37

same When you obey him, he timing is perfect back you

7:39

obey him He brings everything back around. He

7:41

he's going to put on the nothing that he's going to

7:43

put on the inside of you that he's

7:45

gonna leave on the inside of you to

7:47

just about timing and so now is the

7:49

season where I'm getting to walk into a

7:51

whole bunch of music getting to walk I love bunch

7:54

Williams. I'm sitting on the phone with so

7:56

if I had a track Michelle it to you

7:58

right now Do you on what I'm saying? like

8:00

following his purpose leads me into the

8:02

thing that I love and that's a

8:04

passion. Wow I don't have no title

8:07

or anything in church but I'm hearing

8:09

Sikhi first the kingdom oh yeah of

8:11

God and Matthew 633 yes and then

8:14

everything else gets at it and a

8:16

lot of people are seeking the things

8:18

they're going after the things instead of

8:21

him and they go off to the

8:23

things what I say instead of the

8:25

king and the king actually knows the

8:28

playbook he knows the lay of the

8:30

land he knows what he wants for

8:32

you to do and I just found

8:35

in my my short little life of

8:37

a lot of impact comes from places

8:39

I didn't think it was going to

8:42

come from because I did it in

8:44

the timing that God wanted it to

8:46

happen not in the timing that I

8:48

wanted it to happen and the more

8:51

you like lean into that and get

8:53

into that lane you don't have to

8:55

worry nothing I'm doing right now I

8:58

have to hold up I just got

9:00

to show up Like I'm not trying

9:02

to hold things together, I'm not trying

9:05

to finesse and do all of these

9:07

things that a lot of people have

9:09

to do and that's what causes stress,

9:12

that's what causes trauma. And so a

9:14

lot of people have to really reel

9:16

themselves back in to figure out what's

9:19

my assignment, not just what's my opportunity.

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comeback today at Purdue Global.EDU. Once again,

13:15

did I say executive producer, executive producer

13:17

of the Emmy nominated amazing show, the

13:19

Sherry Shepard show. Please welcome my friend,

13:22

John Murray. Sherry Shepard was a friend

13:24

of mine and also a client. And

13:26

so, like, we met Dr. Bobby Jones,

13:29

funny and I used to do an

13:31

artisan tree twice a year in Las

13:33

Vegas. And Sherry was a big reader

13:36

of my column. she came

13:38

up to me

13:40

in the hallway one

13:43

day and was

13:45

like hallway know you

13:47

don't know who I

13:50

am but I'm

13:52

a big fan of

13:54

your work and

13:57

I was like oh

13:59

know who I am, but I'm

14:01

all the big white

14:03

of of course I

14:06

know you I was

14:08

we became the little

14:10

black actors on all the really

14:12

will say that Of

14:14

course I know you. And we became

14:16

friends. And John, we John friends and so say

14:19

that. would do appearances ahead. co she laughs. sometimes

14:21

laughs. stuff she wanted to work through,

14:23

me on to bring me on to help

14:25

her figure that out. If she

14:27

had to go a a promo run

14:29

for a movie project or something, or

14:31

she'd have me come and help her

14:33

finesse her sound bites and stuff.

14:35

And so sound I did not realize

14:37

then then that it really was setting

14:39

me up for my life as a

14:41

producer. Right now. It was teaching me was

14:43

get the best out of the best out

14:45

of people. It was teaching me

14:47

how to connect with people so

14:49

that they could be their best.

14:51

And so when I so prior to this executive to

14:54

this executive producer run done a bunch

14:56

I had done a bunch of

14:58

consulting for some some shows and some specials. I I

15:00

had both produced and directed some

15:02

episodes episodes of TV ones But the executive

15:04

producer role is, the boss, the boss.

15:06

you hire, You you you one of you

15:08

have one of the final on creative,

15:10

you're leading the team. team. so were

15:13

were people. said, I will only said this only

15:15

go on this journey with John that

15:17

was looking like, get did he get for

15:19

all those people? How was he know, how is

15:21

he in this position? the And the

15:23

truth of the matter is the late great

15:25

Bill Getty. who helped create the view with view with Walters. He

15:27

helps helped mentor me through this process going

15:29

going on this executive producer journey, along

15:31

with Twitch, who was at Ellen, along with Heather Gray,

15:33

who was at the the talk, and along

15:36

with my dear friend Kat Kat who's

15:38

at who's at GMA 3. But But Bill said something

15:40

to me, he's at John, the course of

15:42

my career, I've seen celebrities give their giving

15:44

celebrities, executive producer credits, their dog water. first executive producer credits.

15:46

He said sometimes celebrities would sometimes want

15:48

to give people give people to

15:50

put money in their to put they

15:52

wouldn't have to pay them so

15:55

they salary them this said but you

15:57

have a you have here there's

15:59

nobody who No Sherry as good as you

16:01

do. There's nobody who's going to get the

16:03

performance out of her the way that you

16:06

will because of that relationship. And you guys

16:08

are going into a situation where people who

16:10

need to learn her and you're almost like

16:12

the Sherry whisperer. He says that's an invaluable

16:15

asset. So he said, despite the you know

16:17

this genre, despite the genre, you know this

16:19

genre, despite the genre, you know this genre,

16:21

you're going to help produce this wonderful content.

16:24

And it prepared me for a lot of

16:26

what I was going to encounter as we

16:28

were embarking on the journey of the charity

16:30

show. So, so good. And you have been

16:32

walking with Sherry Shepard for a number of

16:35

years and a four way to some of

16:37

the shows. She was a co-host on the

16:39

view. Yeah. And now you two, she, if

16:41

I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong,

16:44

I think she like made a promise like

16:46

John when I get my talk show, you're

16:48

coming with me. Yeah, so, you know, Sherry

16:50

and I had a very unique relationship because

16:53

when Sherry was approached to join the view,

16:55

she had agents, she had managers and all

16:57

that stuff, she said she was praying and

16:59

she asked, I want to talk to somebody

17:02

who's not on my payroll, and I really

17:04

want to get objective advice from them. And

17:06

I literally, I was in Chicago, I was

17:08

doing a speech and burial communications. I was

17:11

out shopping walking down Michigan Avenue, Michigan Avenue,

17:13

phone range, and Sherry I answered it. And

17:15

she told me about her offer her offer

17:17

to join the offer to join the join

17:20

the and we talked about it and that

17:22

particular year it didn't happen because they brought

17:24

Rosie O'Donnell on the show and they didn't

17:26

want to add a second co-hosts. Fast forward

17:29

about eight months later Sherry started guest co-hosting

17:31

on the view again the whole Rosie and

17:33

Elizabeth blow-up happens and then all of a

17:35

sudden they're looking to bring Sherry on the

17:37

show again as a permanent co-host. Well her

17:40

team at the time the negotiations didn't go

17:42

very well and ABC took their offer back

17:44

from her back from her. And Sherry called

17:46

me and she cried. She was really upset.

17:49

And I, coach. her on how I thought

17:51

she could resurrect the deal. I basically told

17:53

her, I need you to call Bill Getty,

17:55

I need you to share your heart with

17:58

him and tell him why the financials, the

18:00

math ain't math. And so she did exactly

18:02

as I said, Bill Getty told her, if

18:04

you take this deal, the rest of the

18:07

money is going to come. And she said

18:09

those are the exact words I had said

18:11

to her, so it was almost like God

18:13

was using him to confirm what I said.

18:16

The deal happened in the rest of history

18:18

and Sherry's never made another major decision in

18:20

the entertainment industry again without talking to me.

18:22

So that set the foundation of our relationship.

18:25

When she went into guest hosts for the

18:27

Wendy Williams, initially in 2019, Sherry said, hey,

18:29

can you come in and help me help

18:31

me, in addition to you just helping produce

18:34

me and my approach to the questions, I

18:36

want you to come and help write the

18:38

show, help me structure the show. And so.

18:40

I came in, I helped write her monologue

18:42

to the top of show, you know, help

18:45

her with the guests and things like that.

18:47

What most people don't know is this particular

18:49

company had offered Sherry a deal in 2019

18:51

to embark on a talk show journey and

18:54

things didn't work out. The pandemic didn't happen.

18:56

And so 2021, Sherry happened to be in

18:58

New York City. She was filling in at

19:00

the view that week for somebody who was

19:03

out all week. And she got a call

19:05

to comment and fill in for Wendy. everybody

19:07

was guest hosting that particular season. And Sherry

19:09

called and said, do I really want to

19:12

do this? Is this something I should do?

19:14

And I said to her, well, don't look

19:16

at it like you're going back to co-host

19:18

this time. How about going and do a

19:21

five-day pilot? She told America with the Sherry

19:23

Shepard show would look like, you've been taking

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all these meetings, people are uncertain about the

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market, they want panel shows, let's show that

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you can do a single host show, and

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that you can own this space, and that

19:34

you can own this space. And then, and

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that you can own this space. And then,

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and that you can own this. five shows

19:41

or how to write the shows. And you

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know, and it was it was a tough

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time. We're coming out the pandemic. There are

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all these testing and protocols and we got

19:50

to sit in the hotel for hours and

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build out the show and we helped our

19:54

hand picking. Yes, and the segments that she

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did. And by the end of the first

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week, the ratings were through the roof, the

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research was great, and everybody was saying, this

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should be the Sherry show. And so Sherry

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came to me and said, I know you're

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talking to one of the news agencies about

20:10

coming on as a contributor. I know you're

20:12

up for another cable show, and I know

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this big company's talking to you about a

20:17

podcast. What would it take for you to

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walk away from everything that you have going

20:21

on to come on this journey with me?

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it first. And so I came back to

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her the next day and I said, listen,

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I'll come on this journey with you if

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I have this title, if I have these

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responsibilities, and if they pay me my money.

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deal unless you have a deal. And Sherry

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called our team and said, listen, until John's

20:44

deal is done, don't send me a contract.

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Washingtonpost.com/P-O-D. Singer! Thinker! Anger, brighter, anger

23:57

and the most asciest gospel artists

23:59

ever in history. Yes, the most

24:01

amazing, y'all know his voice, producer,

24:03

but what do you want me

24:05

to say? Artists, artists, artists, artists,

24:07

he does it all. And as

24:10

she is, Franklin. As she is

24:12

gospel artists every. Life was life

24:14

being, it was a lot that

24:16

happened and you know, we, you

24:18

know, we just still taking it

24:21

one day at a time. still

24:23

trying to figure out what the

24:25

new normal looks like, you know?

24:27

You know, it's very much kind

24:29

of like how life was after

24:32

the pandemic, you know, you had

24:34

to figure out what the new

24:36

normal was for you. And so,

24:38

you know, that's what I'm having

24:40

to do. And I'm having to

24:43

do it on my own pace

24:45

and my own race. You know,

24:47

it can feel very daunting. But,

24:49

uh, in one day at a

24:51

time, one day at a time.

24:55

You say at your own pace,

24:57

at your own race, but you

24:59

decided to share it with the

25:01

world. Why did you decide to

25:04

share that portion with us? Well,

25:06

because I was already in the

25:08

creative space. I was already documenting

25:11

the making of the album. And

25:13

so, yeah. So as a creative,

25:15

you don't know how not to

25:17

translate what you go through. Like,

25:20

it's someone like as a creative.

25:22

I was going to that. then

25:24

it's going to affect the songwriting.

25:27

So if I have a camera

25:29

in front of me, I'm going

25:31

to naturally incorporate the moments that

25:34

I'm experiencing and the moment that

25:36

I'm in. I mean, I mean,

25:38

you know, for, you know, in

25:40

my home living, I think for

25:43

real, deep, core, creative people, they

25:45

don't know a separation of art

25:47

in reality. You know, there art

25:50

is their reality. So, you know,

25:53

You know you just you

25:55

just naturally continue in the

25:57

lanes that are very organ.

25:59

and very second nature for

26:01

you and you know that

26:03

second nature for me. Did

26:05

the album change like did

26:07

you were your album starting

26:10

off in one way and

26:12

then things happened with your

26:14

father did it kind of

26:16

did it change the album

26:18

yeah new album oh yeah

26:20

yeah yeah the name of

26:22

the album originally was called

26:24

the rebirth of the Peerless

26:26

Hero. That was the name

26:29

of the album. I was

26:31

taking different titles from different

26:33

albums. And yeah, it was

26:35

it was going to be

26:37

one project that was going

26:39

in another kind of direction.

26:41

And this ended up being,

26:43

you know, the background music

26:46

for a very tumultuous life

26:48

changing experience that I was

26:50

having in real time. I

26:52

can only imagine that it

26:54

was. Scary for you to

26:56

release that information to us,

26:58

right? But at the same

27:00

time You became if you

27:02

weren't already a lot of

27:05

people's hero For being able

27:07

to share especially a man

27:09

To share and be vulnerable

27:11

on camera. I always say

27:13

there's a difference between being

27:15

transparent and vulnerable when you're

27:17

transparent you can tell the

27:19

world anything Hey, I stole

27:22

my toe. Hey, I was

27:24

late for a meeting today,

27:26

but being vulnerable, you actually

27:28

told us how it made

27:30

you feel. Which, being vulnerable

27:32

for me, feels yucky. I

27:34

hate feeling vulnerable and then

27:36

having to voice how it

27:39

made me feel. And I

27:41

feel like I'm watching it

27:43

all over again, just talking

27:45

to you. Yeah, and I

27:47

don't know what other way

27:49

to be. Because I don't

27:51

know. Me talking and me

27:53

sharing is very much. Just

27:55

a part of my nature.

27:58

It's it's it's very second

28:00

nature for me. So as

28:02

I don't know how to

28:04

Have the separate space where

28:06

these things in my life

28:08

exist over here But then

28:10

I'm going to do music

28:12

and share the gospel and

28:15

yeah and talk about Jesus

28:17

over here. No, they they

28:19

are synonymous in the expression

28:21

of who I am as

28:23

a broken individual and so

28:25

I wouldn't know different to

28:27

do Yeah It's like every

28:29

time you come out with

28:32

a project, it's like we're

28:34

hearing Kurt for the first

28:36

time. It's like you somehow,

28:38

you keep our anticipation, you

28:40

keep everybody so excited and

28:42

you're all, well to us,

28:44

I don't know if you

28:46

ever feel that way, but

28:48

it seems like you're always

28:51

winning except. for that of

28:53

course by the grace of

28:55

God his hand on your

28:57

life and every time you

28:59

come out he's you stay

29:01

relevant just I just y'all

29:03

I'm sitting here almost fanning

29:05

out because this is what

29:08

I'd been wanting to say

29:10

to you it's like you're

29:12

fresh still like you're new

29:14

how do you keep that

29:16

energy how do you keep

29:18

us like Literally on the

29:20

edges of our seat like

29:22

what is Kirk Franklin gonna

29:25

do for us musically? I

29:27

have no idea I have

29:29

no idea You be so

29:31

humble But I'm but but

29:33

but but I'm also keeping

29:35

in the buck. I mean

29:37

nobody nobody knows but listen

29:39

you have been doing music

29:41

all your life. You know

29:44

like I know Don't nobody

29:46

know Think about all

29:48

the big producers that you as

29:50

artists, you with Destiny's Child, you,

29:53

you seeing your other sister do,

29:55

and there'll be records you that,

29:58

oh, this record is out of

30:00

here, and it don't. I mean,

30:02

nobody knows. Nobody knows. So why

30:05

would I get on here with

30:07

you and even act like I

30:09

have some divine intervention, spiritual hook-up

30:12

number from God that I can

30:14

just tell you something that is

30:17

going to be so divinely supernatural

30:19

different? Everybody wants you to bottle

30:21

up the secret sauce and sell

30:24

it. And there is no secret

30:26

sauce. I don't... is that nobody

30:29

knows. You know, I can't, you

30:31

know, like even with, you know,

30:33

even with the new music, you

30:36

don't know, you know, I mean,

30:38

you don't know, you don't know,

30:41

you know, you don't know, no,

30:43

but you're mad, grateful and overwhelmed

30:45

that in spite of you, in

30:48

spite of your mistakes and failures

30:50

or sins, that, you know, there's

30:52

something in you in spite of

30:55

you, that God. would choose to

30:57

use in some kind of way.

31:00

It's amazing. Once again, thank you

31:02

for tuning into the Black Effect

31:04

Podcast Network. See you in 2025

31:07

for more great moments from your

31:09

favorite podcast. The holidays are about

31:12

spending time with your loved ones

31:14

and creating magical memories that will

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