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Gio Cubs podcast. My name

2:01

is Corey. I am joined as

2:04

always by Brendan. We are coming

2:06

to you on Friday. It is

2:08

November 22nd. Brendan and a quick

2:10

shout out to our guys Kevin

2:12

Wells, Cody Del Mendo, for filling

2:15

the very big shoes that I

2:17

had to leave the last couple

2:19

weeks. You're back. How does it

2:21

feel to be back talking about

2:24

the beautiful Chicago Cubs off season?

2:26

That's... getting hot great you know

2:28

you know Brendan the the best

2:30

part of i think take you

2:32

know being gone for a couple

2:35

weeks is that you know you

2:37

could basically drop me in any

2:39

any random episode from the last

2:41

like two and a half years and

2:43

we have no idea the same conversation

2:46

so it's like you don't need to

2:48

skip a beat let me guess let

2:50

me guess They're not spending as much

2:52

money as everybody wants. They're not really

2:55

in on any of the top free

2:57

agents. And nobody is really sure like

2:59

what Jet Hoyer is going to do

3:02

and how he's going to make the

3:04

team better while not mortgaging the future

3:06

like he always talks about. Do I

3:08

have that right? You do. You forgot

3:11

one important detail. The 83, 84, 85,

3:13

one projection. Yeah. How many times have

3:15

we said that? Crazy. Absolutely. Are you

3:17

suggesting that Eli Morgan does not bump

3:20

them to a 90 win? A little

3:22

upset at the Alfonso Rosario Corey. I

3:24

don't know what we're going to do.

3:26

I don't know what we're going to

3:29

do with our life. You are not

3:31

out of here. I actually do like

3:33

the deal. Yeah, I do too. I

3:36

do want to talk about that. The

3:38

deal to get reliever, Eli Morgan from

3:40

Cleveland and you know, the prospect, the

3:42

prospect of Cubs have some non-tender decisions

3:45

on this Friday. you know, on this

3:47

Friday. So we may talk about stuff

3:49

that they've already made the decision on,

3:51

but that's just kind of, we're doing

3:54

the best we can with that. So

3:56

if it sounds outdated, it might be,

3:58

but only slightly. So we'll talk about

4:00

that, but you know, Brendan, I kind

4:03

of want to jump right into the

4:05

Cody Bellinger rumor that, you know, kind

4:07

of popped up on Thursday. And it

4:09

was one that was getting talked about

4:12

by, you know, folks like Ken Rosenthal,

4:14

I saw it on foul territory and

4:16

some other, you know, legitimate kind of

4:19

places. We've dealt with a lot of

4:21

rumors over the last few years where

4:23

you can kind of immediately like ask

4:25

like, okay, should I believe this? Where

4:28

is this coming from? This was one

4:30

that it makes a good bit of

4:32

sense to hear. You know, I wasn't

4:34

really in the camp of being particularly

4:37

excited that he was going to opt

4:39

back in, though you and I kind

4:41

of landed both. I think being on,

4:43

he's a good player. If he's overpaid

4:46

for what his production was last year,

4:48

the clubs are one of the franchises

4:50

that should be able to eat that

4:53

overpayment to have a good player. whether

4:55

they're acting like they can do that

4:57

or not is a separate discussion for

4:59

a different day. But I'm curious like

5:02

what your initial thought even just to

5:04

like that rumor being out there so

5:06

soon after he opts back in. What

5:08

did you make of kind of reading

5:11

those rumors on Thursday? My first thought

5:13

was I don't know how much I

5:15

should look into it. as a substantive

5:17

type idea by the front office. I

5:20

have no idea. Winter meetings are not

5:22

started yet. We have a free Asian

5:24

market that's going to start booming in

5:27

the next few weeks, hopefully, and that

5:29

determines the market. The Cubs need to

5:31

find a way, if that is their

5:33

true intention, to boost their 80-ish win

5:36

projection upwards to scratching 90 wins. So

5:38

for them to trade Bellinger. and achieve

5:40

that type of higher win projection seems

5:42

impossible, quite frankly, then again, it doesn't

5:45

discount that there is maybe a possibility

5:47

for it to happen in crazy circumstances.

5:49

But I would be a little surprised

5:51

if they do end up going and

5:54

trading Bellinger, if they still want to

5:56

win next year, if they don't want

5:58

to win. they want to sit, you

6:01

know, hang out on this mid-80-ish territory,

6:03

then, okay, save some money and that

6:05

would be disappointing. You're telling, I mean,

6:07

that's putting it lightly. I think this

6:10

is one of those where, like, my

6:12

initial thing, like I said, I would

6:14

have preferred he opted out and because

6:16

they're, you know, not operating as though

6:19

they're just going to blow past some

6:21

of these luxury tax tiers, like, have

6:23

the extra money and see if you

6:25

can get more slug or something like

6:28

that something like that. Once they have

6:30

him, again, good player, he provides a

6:32

safety net for the outfield positions, provides

6:35

a safety net if you're rolling with

6:37

Michael Bush at first base, play first

6:39

base. I think it's one of those,

6:41

even as a hypothetical, what is the

6:44

bigger picture? Trading Bellinger in a vacuum,

6:46

sure, fine. Like he's slightly overpaid for

6:48

the production that he gave last year

6:50

if he reverted back to 2023. you

6:53

know you might feel better about that

6:55

if you revert it back to 2017

6:57

you'd be getting a steel you know

6:59

so there's obviously layers to that but

7:02

trading them in a vacuum I'm fine

7:04

with but yeah it's it's to your

7:06

point like then you are a step

7:08

back already from your offense last year

7:11

so you have to replace that production

7:13

and as we keep discussing we're already

7:15

feeling like you're not good enough last

7:18

year anyway so if they had some

7:20

sort of trick up their sleeve, you

7:22

know, I like there's a trade that

7:24

they're looking to make for a bat

7:27

that they need to make room for,

7:29

or some other trade that they just

7:31

want to clear up some finances for,

7:33

that could work, but that involves a

7:36

lot of trust, you know, from us

7:38

as fans to say, sure, I'm open

7:40

to trading Cody Bellinger, as long as

7:42

there's this like top secret plan to...

7:45

make the team better. It would be

7:47

different if right now we were sitting

7:49

here and they were you know lighting.

7:52

up all of these Juan Soto rumors

7:54

and you're kind of reading the TV.

7:56

Well they are, aren't they? They're not

7:58

even mentioned. I mean it's pathetic, like

8:01

they're not even at the table. It's

8:03

like the most pathetic thing. Cody went

8:05

on a rant about it the other

8:07

day. I'm not going to do it,

8:10

but it's like... just absolutely pathetic from

8:12

this organization. But it would be one

8:14

thing if you were reading that, like

8:16

the Cubs are all in on Juan

8:19

Soto, they're meeting with him, blah, blah,

8:21

blah. And then you're like, oh, okay,

8:23

they need, you know, Bellinger opted in

8:26

and they need to clear that payroll,

8:28

they need to clear the space on

8:30

the roster, etc. But you're not really

8:32

hearing that. So when you first read that,

8:34

that is the concern. It's like, well. What

8:36

if they trade him in

8:38

the hope that they can

8:41

get better or like utilize

8:43

the resources better, but then

8:45

that doesn't materialize like now

8:47

you're down a good player and

8:49

What what replaces it? So I'd

8:51

be fine with it if their

8:53

plan is to supplement the

8:55

offense elsewhere, but I I don't

8:58

I don't know the cups have

9:00

right now if COTS is correct

9:02

for payroll estimation, 50 million underneath

9:04

that first tier of the tax

9:07

with Bellinger. They trade Bellinger, they

9:09

get back, let's say, a pre-Arb

9:11

guy, they want to dish out

9:13

salary, then you have around 80-ish

9:15

million or so to spend. I

9:18

mean, presumably if you're making this

9:20

deal, the other team is money.

9:22

Yeah, they're eating money. That's why

9:24

you're doing it. That's what would

9:26

be the idea. The assumption. Yeah.

9:28

Yes. Now. There's many paths forward

9:30

the Cubs right now and Bell interest

9:33

included in this discussion They have a

9:35

bunch of two win guys at basically

9:37

every position on Their projections left field

9:39

center field right field right everywhere right

9:41

and that's why they're kind of this

9:44

average type team So one of those

9:46

two of those three of those guys

9:48

have to outperform significantly that being said

9:50

there are worst problems to have where

9:53

every player on your roster starting is

9:55

basically average to above average not that

9:57

bad for problem you have to find

9:59

a to make it work. So

10:01

if the idea is, okay, we're

10:03

going to trade from that group,

10:05

one of those opportunities is Bellinger,

10:07

then I understand it, but it's

10:09

about bringing in a higher ceiling,

10:11

even if you risk a lower

10:13

floor. Now, if they keep Bellinger,

10:15

you can still explore trades for

10:17

Bush or Purettis. Nico Horner's been

10:20

brought up, of course, but if

10:22

we're talking about money. in trading

10:24

and clearing money, then no other

10:26

player on this roster has the

10:28

dollar per war value than Niko

10:30

Horner. And like Bellinger, both those

10:32

players have the highest possible floors.

10:34

So my creativity is this, my

10:36

ideal outcome is this. I would

10:38

like to keep Bellinger, assuming his

10:40

market's not going to bring a

10:42

big return. That's my assumption on

10:44

this discussion. I would like to

10:46

keep Bellinger. I would like to

10:48

keep Niko. I would like to

10:50

have that floor and I would

10:52

like to somehow leverage your prospects,

10:54

Bush and Paretta's, in a trade

10:56

somehow. Not in all one trade,

10:58

but somehow leverage those guys. The

11:00

reason for that is because unlike

11:02

Nico, unlike Bellinger, I perceive Bush

11:04

to have a lower floor and

11:06

his ceiling, I don't believe it's

11:08

as high as those two guys.

11:10

Likewise, Paredes, his stealing is quite

11:12

high, but I think he has

11:14

a really low floor if we

11:16

saw a lot of the two-month

11:18

stretch he showed last season with

11:21

the Cubs. That's my ideal path

11:23

for. Then again, if the market

11:25

is robust for Bellinger, you can

11:27

still accomplish what I'm talking about

11:29

because he's also included in that

11:31

two warish mix. It's that I

11:33

just have different confident levels in

11:35

him achieving that versus the other

11:37

guys. Well, I don't think the

11:39

market would be robust. I think

11:41

if they felt that way, Cody

11:43

would have opted out and let

11:45

a team pay him. Especially with

11:47

worse. You'd be doing that to

11:49

get anything. You'd be doing it

11:51

to get the money, somebody else

11:53

to take that money. And you

11:55

know look like I think you

11:57

and and our good friend Dr.

11:59

Ryan tell me we're talking about

12:01

this this afternoon like if they

12:03

want to if they're going to

12:05

trade Cody Bellinger to free up

12:07

the money and trade you know

12:09

Owen Casey and some other guys

12:11

for Vlad Guerrero Jr. Great like

12:13

yeah that sounds great that gets

12:15

them a bona fide star the

12:17

slug that you're missing but like

12:20

is that what's going to happen

12:22

like that feels like it feels

12:24

like these last few off seasons

12:26

we've like even like lowered our

12:28

expectation, you know, like okay, they're

12:30

not going to get Otani or

12:32

whatever, after a while, we lowered

12:34

that expectation. I thought it's really

12:36

fully, part of that time. But

12:38

then it's like, okay, but what

12:40

if they do this and this

12:42

and this, the rest of the

12:44

off season, and even then we

12:46

seem to be like overshooting, you

12:48

know, so like this is one

12:50

of those areas where it's like,

12:52

I don't think they're. that's going

12:54

to happen. I think we've like

12:56

made that up in our head

12:58

that they're going to pull off

13:00

this like amazing trade and we're

13:02

all like oh wow we were

13:04

wrong about Jed Hoyer he does

13:06

have the Kahone's you know to

13:08

pull something like this off like

13:10

I don't know that I'm just

13:12

like in my most pessimistic. You're

13:14

in a horrible mood today. I

13:16

can just tell. Awful mood you're

13:19

in. I'm in a bad mood

13:21

too. Let's be transparent. We're not

13:23

in good moods over here. Well,

13:25

and like, you know, listen, like,

13:27

I'm not going to get into

13:29

it. But like, I think you

13:31

alluded, like, the reason I missed

13:33

the last couple weeks is like

13:35

I'm dealing with some stuff in

13:37

my personal life. And it does

13:39

sort of sort of like standard

13:41

things. for you? No, just like

13:43

what matters, what doesn't matter. And

13:45

like I'm like reading these like,

13:47

you know, as I'm dealing with

13:49

this, you know, you're reading these

13:51

articles about, well, the Cubs aren't

13:53

even really in the top of

13:55

the pitching market either. They're looking

13:57

at like these, you know, losers

13:59

in the second and third tier.

14:01

And I'm like, I can't, I

14:03

can't, I. it's going to make

14:05

my head explode if I try

14:07

to read more about this you

14:09

know five billion dollar organization operating

14:11

in like the same free agent

14:13

here as you know some of

14:15

these clown teams in the league

14:17

while these other teams are putting

14:20

together their big billion dollar pitch

14:22

for Juan Soto and stuff like

14:24

that. I'm like, I can't, I

14:26

can't, I can't deal with this

14:28

right now. That's a disappointment. I'm

14:30

like very pessimistic about all of

14:32

this. As you, I feel as

14:34

if you should be pessimistic, I

14:36

don't believe it's irrational. The rational

14:38

pushback is, well, they do have

14:40

a good farm system. I don't

14:42

want to talk about that relative

14:44

to where I want them to

14:46

be. We talk about it all

14:48

the time. There's situation where it's

14:50

fine. They're situation where it's fine.

14:52

S-tier and that's where they got

14:54

to be. Well, they're not even

14:56

talking to Juan Soda. Again, Cody

14:58

talked about it and everything, but

15:00

that's just like mind boggling. They're

15:02

not even at the table for

15:04

a future hall of famer. I

15:06

appreciate the candor this time as

15:08

opposed to like last time where

15:10

it was like, well, maybe they're

15:12

talking to show, hey, you know,

15:14

you know, it is bizarre. It's

15:16

just a bizarre period of time

15:19

with this entire organization. It's... I

15:21

don't want to say they haven't

15:23

picked a lane, but on the

15:25

outside looking in, on the outside

15:27

looking in, without knowing the details,

15:29

they're not picking a lane. Yeah.

15:31

Is it how do you, how

15:33

do you, well, and it, it

15:35

felt that way, even reading some

15:37

of the online discussion about, and

15:39

I want to get your thoughts

15:41

on Eli Morgan as a pitcher,

15:43

and just like how we can

15:45

help this Cubs's, um, you know

15:47

an A ball prospect with a

15:49

34% rate you know an 18

15:51

year old and I'm not I'm

15:53

not saying is a bad prospect

15:55

or anything like that but I'm

15:57

like guys at some point are

15:59

we trying to win at the

16:01

Major League level or are we

16:03

hoarding single A prospects like what

16:05

do you guys want with second

16:07

percentile wiff rates by the way?

16:09

We've been through a lot, okay?

16:11

Don't pick a lane here. Yeah,

16:13

he's an athletic guy, but I'm

16:15

with you. It's like, this is

16:18

like the most projectable value you

16:20

can possibly get. But that's to

16:22

your point about not picking a

16:24

lane. It feels like the fan

16:26

base doesn't know what to do

16:28

either. Like should we be hoarding

16:30

the prospect? Are we? We've been

16:32

through a lot. Okay. With the

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17:57

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17:59

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18:01

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18:03

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18:05

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18:43

All right, Brandon. So I mean, you

18:45

know, just like I want to talk

18:47

about Morgan and get your thoughts on

18:49

that. But, you know, wrapping on Bellinger,

18:52

like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, I hate to

18:54

use the cop out because it feels that

18:56

way, but it's like, it's one of those

18:59

moves where it's like, I'd have to know

19:01

what the plan is and we're not

19:03

going to get told what the

19:05

plan is. Like, we'll see if

19:07

this even material material. I mean

19:09

he's like project is one of

19:11

the highest ceiling of value players

19:14

on the team and he's being

19:16

paid for that ceiling. It's not

19:18

a cop out whatsoever. They're proposing

19:20

a trade their highest paid positional

19:22

player. Yeah, yeah. So it's like

19:24

I can see the potential vision

19:26

of how that works and ultimately

19:28

you end up in a place

19:30

where the team is made better,

19:32

but without like having that kind

19:34

of locked in, I'm a little

19:36

unnerved about that. I don't think.

19:39

for as pessimistic, even as like angry

19:41

as we've been, I don't think

19:43

that like we would be in

19:45

a scenario where they like dump

19:47

the salary and are like, well, yeah,

19:49

that's just all we're doing this off

19:52

season. That's like even, that's a

19:54

level of pessimism I haven't

19:56

reached yet, but with how much room

19:58

they have towards the. I don't know,

20:00

they haven't behaved like that in recent

20:02

years. That would be a new low

20:05

for them. Anything's possible. Anything's possible. I

20:07

mean, there's you're to your point. There's

20:09

so far under the tax that it's

20:11

not a tax dump. The first thought

20:13

came to my mind. It was like,

20:15

oh, well, they did that for Swarber

20:18

in 2020. But then again, that was

20:20

restricted TV budget revenue and then actually

20:22

at the time in their thinking would

20:24

have protected their salary. So I don't

20:26

think this is quite similar to that

20:28

respect, because that's the first thought I

20:31

was going. There are 50 million underneath

20:33

that first tier. So I don't. But

20:35

yeah, without knowing what the this top

20:37

secret plan is, like it's it's tough

20:39

to be like, yeah, sure, you know,

20:41

like. That being said, though, if we

20:44

just imagine Bellingers on this team is

20:46

starting to right field every day, that's

20:48

probably the best defense in major league

20:50

baseball. Ian Hap, Go Glover, PCA, Best

20:52

Center Fielder in the league, Bellinger, former

20:54

Go Glover, our center field, Go Globe

20:57

up the middle with Niko and Dansby

20:59

at the corners, let's improve the corners,

21:01

catcher, let's improve the catcher position, bringing

21:03

the ace, maybe bringing Vlad Guerrero Jr.

21:05

Corey, maybe Sasaki as well, that's an

21:07

off season, I'm signing up on. Yeah,

21:09

sure. Let me run the team, I'll

21:12

do it for free. I'll do it,

21:14

I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll

21:16

do it, I'll do it, I'll do

21:18

it, I'll do it, I'll do it,

21:20

I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll

21:22

do it, I'll do it, I'll do

21:25

it, I'll do it, I'll do it,

21:27

I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll

21:29

do it, I'll do it, I'll do

21:31

it, I'll do it, I'll do it,

21:33

I'll do it, I'll Eli Morgan though,

21:35

because I actually like this trade. I

21:38

think, you know, when we're talking about,

21:40

you know, if we're lowering the parameters,

21:42

we're not just, you know, going for

21:44

the simple solutions of like, well, just

21:46

add one soda or, as you just

21:48

said, like trade for flagrant or whatever

21:51

it is. These are kind of obvious

21:53

answers. How do we make this team

21:55

better? How do we inch up that

21:57

win projection? You know, banking on some

21:59

internal projection, as Jet always talks about.

22:01

hoping that prospects take that next step,

22:04

etc., etc. What else can you do

22:06

that is not like these crazy grand

22:08

moves that kind of work within the

22:10

scheme of how this organization seems to

22:12

be operating? And this feels like one,

22:14

like this Eli is a very solid

22:17

reliever. not the type of guy that's

22:19

gonna like wow you off the screen

22:21

but gets out as good stuff like

22:23

did good work for Cleveland and that's

22:25

what this bullpen needed more of you

22:27

know he's not gonna be your closer

22:30

he's not that you know guy that's

22:32

gonna come out in the ninth inning

22:34

to close out the world series in

22:36

20 years when the Cubs get back

22:38

to the playoffs but they needed more

22:40

stability. in this bullpen. You had so

22:43

many young guys last year trying to

22:45

make those adjustments on the fly in

22:47

conjunction with a bullpen that you brought

22:49

back that dealt with a ton of

22:51

injuries and some major struggles from the

22:53

guys that you really plan to lean

22:56

on. And this is the type of

22:58

move that you hope kind of mitigates

23:00

those exact things from happening again next

23:02

year. You get a solid guy that

23:04

Craig Council can utilize and can trust

23:06

to get out and it takes a

23:09

little bit of the burden off of

23:11

some of the inexperienced guys or guys

23:13

that maybe, you know, as we saw

23:15

last year, you try to kind of

23:17

like thrust guys into that high leverage

23:19

role. Maybe they're not ready for it

23:22

or maybe they're not truly that high

23:24

leveraging. More guys like this make that

23:26

process a little smoother for Craig Council

23:28

and Tommy Hata. Someone who's thrown Indians,

23:30

that's a big key. We had injuries

23:32

tanked the season in May and June

23:35

last season. Eli Morgan last season had

23:37

42 Indians. Previous season, 67 Indians. Previous

23:39

season before that in 2022, 66. And

23:41

that was coming off his rookie year

23:43

in which he started 18 games. So

23:45

he's someone who has a high volume

23:48

history of the Indians. Second to that,

23:50

coming off his best year. So in

23:52

one sense, Cleveland might be selling high

23:54

in the other sense, well, maybe he

23:56

is this good last season, a 1.93

23:58

ERA, a 3.6 fifth, that's due to

24:01

not being able. to generate whips and

24:03

not having a high strikeout rate. He's

24:05

one of those guys who generates a

24:07

lot of weak contact and by doing

24:09

so limits to runs. You're smiling over

24:11

there because I know what you're thinking.

24:14

It's half the Cubs team right now.

24:16

It's just the Cubs' MO, yeah. That's

24:18

what they do. And listen. giving

24:20

up a single lay bat who

24:22

was very talented, don't get me

24:24

wrong, a Rosario, very talented, kind

24:26

of came to the system, had

24:29

a lot of hype, but then

24:31

again, he's whiffing a third of

24:33

the time, striking out a third

24:35

of the time at single lay.

24:37

Typically that trait signals that you're

24:39

not going to be highly confident

24:41

in success in major league baseball.

24:43

So the bet is, if you

24:45

have did that, which one's more

24:47

valuable? It's like a 99.999% chance.

24:49

The Cubs get back value at

24:51

the big league level with Morgan.

24:53

That is their risk Cleveland made.

24:55

They have a very good pitching

24:57

infrastructure. He's going to be entering

24:59

arbitration. That's what they did. The

25:01

Cubs need bulk Ben hell. They

25:03

don't have as good of the

25:05

pitching infrastructure as Cleveland, nor half

25:07

the other league right now. This

25:09

is what they have to do.

25:12

Right, we just have to hope

25:14

there's not some like, you know,

25:16

executive over in Cleveland that's like,

25:18

hey, Carter used to love this

25:21

guy. We can, like, totally pants

25:23

them on some trade if we

25:25

call about him. No, I think

25:27

this is a good trade. And,

25:29

you know, look, I think at

25:31

some point, as just as fans,

25:33

you know, we have to reconcile,

25:35

like, what do we exactly want

25:38

them to do with the healthy

25:40

pipeline that they've developed? And there's

25:42

different directions that people can feel

25:44

about this. Now, you don't have

25:46

to be looking at trading all

25:48

of them. Of course not, right?

25:50

PCAs come up, I'm sure, you

25:52

know, figuring out what they want

25:55

to do and how they're going

25:57

to deploy in that shaw, you

25:59

know, who was absolutely. just ripping

26:01

the cover off the ball for

26:03

Team USA. It's difficult not to

26:05

be very excited about Matt Shaw.

26:07

It's a separate episode. But, you

26:09

know, we talk about like a

26:11

hypothetical Vlad Guerrero trade. That would

26:14

involve prospects that would be very

26:16

difficult for all of us to

26:18

waive goodbye to. This is the

26:20

type of trade that I don't

26:22

think you can feel that way.

26:24

I guess is the point that

26:26

I'm making. Like, you can believe

26:28

that, you can believe that, you

26:31

know, They gave up a good

26:33

prospect and believe that he can

26:35

overcome the K-raid issues, etc. of

26:37

course. But at some point, like,

26:39

if you're not willing to trade

26:41

the big ticket prospects for the

26:43

big ticket, MLB-ready players, and you're

26:45

also not comfortable trading the like

26:48

young lottery ticket, like dream on

26:50

what they could be, raw talent

26:52

type guys, what do you want

26:54

to do? I mean, that like

26:56

you kind of get into this

26:58

problem where it's like, okay, well

27:00

then your only path forward if

27:02

that's what they do is what

27:05

happened basically, luckily for all of

27:07

us in 2015, 2016, when the

27:09

Cubs won the World Series. One

27:11

the World Series correct. And it

27:13

all just times together. Every, you

27:15

get like seven guys that all

27:17

moved through the system. different ages,

27:19

different levels, and they're all ready

27:22

to try to help you win

27:24

all converges at one time for

27:26

like a two to three year

27:28

period. It's very difficult. It's why

27:30

you don't see it happen all

27:32

the time. So to me, like,

27:34

can believe in the prospect, but

27:36

they need to be utilizing that

27:39

system to make the MLB team.

27:41

better. When you haven't made the

27:43

playoffs in a full season since

27:45

2018, you have got to prioritize.

27:47

How do we make the MLV

27:49

team better? And a trade like

27:51

this for Morgan, like I said,

27:53

this isn't moving them from a

27:56

low 80s projection to a 90

27:58

win projection, but this makes them

28:00

a better team. It makes everybody

28:02

in that bullpen better that you

28:04

have, as you said, a guy

28:06

that has innings on his arm,

28:08

he has experience, and he's put

28:10

up good numbers. That makes Porter

28:12

Hodge better. That makes these other guys

28:14

better because there is someone who can

28:16

do the job in this bullpen.

28:19

And as you bring up more guys, you

28:21

know, you need these guys that Craig Council

28:23

can lean on. And we saw that last

28:25

year throughout the year. I think you

28:28

have to get comfortable with

28:30

moving some of these prospects.

28:32

And hopefully I think soon

28:34

I want them to pull

28:36

off a big trade. And

28:38

for us to be worried

28:40

about like, oh man, are

28:42

we going to regret like

28:45

giving up O'In Casey? Are

28:47

we going to regret giving

28:49

up O'In Casey? Are we

28:51

going to regret giving up

28:53

a guy I've liked since

28:56

they drafted? like that's that's a

28:58

fine problem to have it means that

29:00

your teams like trying to win they're

29:02

going for it. They're going for it

29:04

and the part of the process

29:06

is when those guys get traded

29:08

well you bring in reinforcements like

29:10

they did last season drafting Camp

29:12

Smith who is knocking on the

29:14

door. a year ago, he was

29:16

not even on our radars. We're

29:18

talking about Matt Shaw going through

29:21

the system extremely fast. Well, Camp

29:23

Smith is doing the exact same

29:25

thing. So the unpredictability of baseball,

29:27

as time goes on, for me

29:29

personally, is something I'm appreciating more.

29:31

And it's one of the principal concerns

29:33

I have at the front office

29:35

that they believe, to your point,

29:37

Corey, they can project 2026 and

29:39

2027 with confidence. That's been their

29:41

MO. Who am I to say,

29:43

oh, that's a bad process, but

29:45

I haven't been happy with that.

29:48

Because I feel as if they

29:50

don't properly account for the changes

29:52

in the league. They don't account

29:55

for how baseball has evolved. They

29:57

don't account for the non-linear development.

29:59

that we've seen. Sometimes you just

30:02

can't predict it. So I value

30:04

that short-term return, that urgency, that

30:06

short-term high value that we have

30:08

yet to see. I'll do the

30:10

ad break here, but I'm reminded

30:13

of it. You darvish traded almost

30:15

five years ago, four years ago.

30:17

No value yet. Oh, in case,

30:19

finally on the 40-man roster. But

30:21

four years went by. There was

30:23

a gap of four years. of

30:26

no value from you darvish. You

30:28

want to make the argument that

30:30

it is truly one of the

30:32

worst trades they've made because of

30:34

a four-year lost value gap. Hopefully,

30:37

Oh, in case he works, but...

30:39

Well, I mean, it's fine, Brendan.

30:41

It's not like they could have

30:43

used a really good starting pitcher

30:45

at any point over the last

30:47

few years. So who cares? Let

30:50

me do the ad break here.

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There you go. All right, Ben,

32:58

and then before we move on,

33:00

I did want to clarify, because

33:02

I did want to clarify, like...

33:05

because it may be confusing like

33:07

my stance was that I wanted

33:09

him to opt out and today

33:11

we're like well I'm not sure

33:13

I see the vision of trading

33:15

him like how did they get

33:18

better I think the difference is

33:20

when we were going through that

33:22

first discussion it wasn't seemingly just

33:24

based on what we're reading abundantly

33:26

clear that this team is not

33:29

going to spend significant money that

33:31

was basically the premise when I

33:33

wanted Cody to opt out not

33:35

necessarily that I thought about Juan

33:37

Soto but you know there was

33:39

some rumor the other day that

33:42

they weren't even going to be

33:44

in the Corbin Burns conversation. Like,

33:46

so when I was hoping that

33:48

Cody would opt out, it was

33:50

kind of before I got much

33:53

more dismayed about what they would

33:55

be doing with that. Well, it

33:57

was under the premise they would

33:59

use that money elsewhere to spend.

34:01

Significantly. Which does not appear that.

34:03

And look, maybe the rumors are

34:06

wrong, the tea leaves, we've seen

34:08

seasons before. It's still worthy. Yeah,

34:10

where the Cubs operate kind of

34:12

a little quiet relative to the

34:14

rest of the league and make

34:16

some moves that people aren't expecting.

34:19

So juries still out, but I

34:21

did want to offer that clarification.

34:23

Like I'm not changing my tune.

34:25

I'm getting a different vibe from

34:27

this off-season than I was. I

34:30

feel like at this moment I

34:32

was a little too optimistic at

34:34

what they might do with that

34:36

extra money. I'm more pessimistic now.

34:38

Let's see what happens. So I

34:40

think we're a little jaded too.

34:43

I really do. We've been doing

34:45

this for three off seasons now

34:47

where we're kind of hoping for

34:49

that big fish to land and

34:51

it hasn't happened yet. So forgive

34:53

us for being a little bit

34:56

jaded and I feel as if

34:58

most if not 90% plus fans

35:00

feel the exact same way. We've

35:02

been on the periphery of rumors

35:04

and landing big players and it

35:07

just seems a little exhausting at

35:09

this point as fans. It has

35:11

not been an enjoyable experience regardless

35:13

if you're optimistic or not. It

35:15

just has not been an enjoyable

35:17

experience. I miss the days of

35:20

reading things like how. insanely impressive

35:22

the Cubs presentation to John Lester

35:24

was and like the VR that

35:26

they created for that and stealing

35:28

him away seemingly from the San

35:31

Francisco Giants. Like that's the organization

35:33

I miss. Like you felt like

35:35

they were ready to put the

35:37

chips on the table and go

35:39

to bat against anyone. and maybe

35:41

they will listen maybe they will

35:44

the winter meetings haven't started we're

35:46

getting ahead of ourselves over here

35:48

not to be spiraled by that

35:50

rumor but again or jaded, has

35:52

been three straight off seasons. And

35:54

I think it's hard when you

35:57

and I talk about what they

35:59

can do to improve, it's really

36:01

hard to see all the pieces

36:03

to the puzzle fitting. It really

36:05

is because we in one sense

36:08

we want to give guys at

36:10

bats and see if you can

36:12

leverage. that cost efficient pre-arp guys,

36:14

O and Casey, Ochantara, Shaw, Camp

36:16

Smith coming up, triantos, at the

36:18

same time, it's really difficult to

36:21

see how that's even possible when

36:23

the entire team is filled up

36:25

of two war players. Yeah. So,

36:27

half of whom have a no

36:29

trade club. Yeah. So it's really

36:31

hard to reconcile those two truths.

36:34

And that does give some optimism,

36:36

but also some... Just questions of

36:38

how it can even be accomplished.

36:40

And I don't know what the

36:42

answer to that is, unless you

36:45

go out and make a significant

36:47

splash in the trade market. But

36:49

then again, you talked about Vlad

36:51

Guerrero Jr. The Blue Jays are

36:53

out there courting big free agents

36:55

right now too. There's no inclination

36:58

they even want to give up

37:00

Vlad Guerrero Jr. I don't know

37:02

where they can do this. Great.

37:04

I don't know. I mean, literally

37:06

the plan might be as bad

37:09

as it sounds. It might be

37:11

just waiting this out and see

37:13

what you got. I hate to

37:15

say that, but they kind of,

37:17

they've made this, this is their

37:19

bad. I don't, I don't get

37:22

the, what I actually think their,

37:24

their plan is, if you, if

37:26

you ask my real opinion of

37:28

no, no optimism, like straightforward, this

37:30

is what I think they're going

37:32

to do. I think the Morgan

37:35

thing is a good indication, I

37:37

think they, try to make by

37:39

the way make that clear yeah

37:41

good good trade yeah I think

37:43

they try to improve over the

37:46

last couple years they have seen

37:48

a lot of really awful performances

37:50

on their roster the bottom of

37:52

the last year, I think they

37:54

had two positions that were sub

37:56

replacement level, third base and catcher.

37:59

Now they obviously upgraded at third

38:01

base. How Paretta's profile plays at

38:03

Wrigley Field. You know, we'll see

38:05

how that all translates. The first

38:07

couple weeks or months. You know,

38:09

we'll see how that all translates.

38:12

The first couple weeks or months,

38:14

whatever, he's not going to perform

38:16

that poorly. Fine. He's still going

38:18

to be a good player. Ketchup,

38:20

we'll see about Amaya, I still

38:23

think even the move, you know,

38:25

they made earlier this week, like

38:27

they need to upgrade that position.

38:29

And I think they continue to

38:31

make moves like that. You have

38:33

got to try to, and this

38:36

pair as well, hopefully this has

38:38

already been done by the time

38:40

this episode airs, but like, hopefully

38:42

you guys are all hearing this

38:44

in a world where Nick Madrigal

38:46

has been non-tendered by the Chicago

38:49

Cubs. As soon as I see

38:51

it, you'll get a tweet from

38:53

me, probably the Michael Scott sending

38:55

Toby off in the office that

38:57

I like to use when the

39:00

Cubs get rid of my enemies.

39:02

But hopefully we're done with that,

39:04

but that's that's a good example.

39:06

Like the the Masterbonies, the Madrigals,

39:08

the Barnhearts, the Mancini's, that's the

39:10

way I see them trying to

39:13

get better. If they're not going

39:15

to make the big splash, stop

39:17

rostering sub replacement level, just bad.

39:19

players. And now granted, they didn't

39:21

think they were doing that when

39:24

they made those moves, but they

39:26

have to be better about that.

39:28

If you're not going to go

39:30

out and sign the eight war

39:32

players that kind of make some

39:34

mistakes on the roster a little

39:37

more tolerable, you have got to

39:39

nail every member of that roster.

39:41

There can't be one piece of

39:43

waste. on the roster. And so

39:45

I think that that's the way

39:47

they try to do that. You

39:50

look at some of those things,

39:52

they let Patrick Wisdom go. I

39:54

mean, I'll ask. you about that

39:56

in a second, but that's a

39:58

good example. Like, you know, as

40:01

the years went on, his production

40:03

went down, his overall value went

40:05

down, etc., etc. So looking at

40:07

those things, saying, okay, we need

40:09

a bench guy, we need a

40:11

extra man, you know, we need

40:14

a utility guy, you have got

40:16

to go out and sign or

40:18

trade for. a better performer in that

40:20

regard. And I think when you

40:22

look at the free agent market,

40:24

you look at potentially what might

40:26

be available in the trade market,

40:28

I think that they can do

40:30

that. Now that would be very unexciting

40:32

and like not the way we want

40:35

them to act, but at the very least,

40:37

I can see how, okay, if you make

40:39

the last, let's call it six spots of

40:41

the roster, better. and try to

40:43

trim out those sub replacement level players.

40:46

I mean, at certain points last year,

40:48

you had like three guys on the

40:50

team with like a 40 WRC plus.

40:52

You can't have that if you don't

40:55

have, as you said, you know, you

40:57

got a big roster of two to

40:59

three win players. You can't have that

41:02

if you don't have those massive performers.

41:04

So I think trying to improve that

41:06

area, hoping PCA. continues the

41:08

way he did in that second

41:11

half, takes that next leap, performs

41:13

like the star that you believe

41:15

he is, see if you can

41:17

integrate Matt Shaw at some point,

41:19

somehow, even if it's slowly to

41:21

begin the year or to begin

41:23

his MOV career, hope that Saya,

41:25

maybe you move him to DH,

41:27

keeps up that 140 WRC plus

41:29

type behavior that he's been on

41:31

and that's what I think they're

41:34

going to do. The

41:37

template is Milwaukee. Milwaukee was a

41:39

79-1 team on paper by Dakota

41:41

going in 2024. Milwaukee ended up

41:43

having one of the best bullpens

41:46

in the league, thanks to unexpected

41:48

or guys that have the best

41:50

projections in their bullpen. If you look

41:52

at blown saves, we all know the

41:55

numbers by now. The blown saves, the

41:57

Cubs had 26 blown saves among the

41:59

most. basically baseball on this list

42:01

right now. They were number six

42:03

in MLB and blown saves lowest

42:05

on the list among the lowest

42:07

is Milwaukee. So Milwaukee had a

42:09

73% save percentage only 19 blown

42:11

saves. So that's seven difference right

42:13

there. The way the coves might

42:15

be seeing this is like Milwaukee.

42:17

Let's shrink up the room for

42:19

error in the ballpen. Although you're

42:21

projected in the 80s to mid

42:24

80s, well, if you can somehow

42:26

stretch out some value from your

42:28

current positional guys and limit the

42:30

breakage in a bullpen, well, maybe

42:32

you can actually outperform that record

42:34

by three, four, five wins. And

42:36

that may give you to the

42:38

upper 80s, a wild card spot

42:40

and a playoff contender, while you

42:42

keep your prospect potential open that

42:44

way in 2026. can't believe 30-25.

42:46

It's crazy we're going to talk

42:48

about this team right now. That

42:50

way in 2026, the flurry of

42:52

pre-arb valuable guys is so high

42:54

that you can actually make really

42:56

big trades in the like they

42:58

did in the mid-2010. That may

43:00

be the path forward. And I

43:02

think it is. And look, that

43:04

might work. And if it does,

43:06

you know, great, we're not, I'm

43:08

not rooting against them because they're

43:10

not signing lots. I mean, like,

43:12

dude, like, in a vacuum, like,

43:14

precarious. It is, in a vacuum,

43:16

if you remove the past four

43:18

years, okay, remove the past four

43:20

years, all the disappointment we have,

43:22

we've had about the urgency or

43:24

that, or not the timing wise,

43:26

remove four years, it actually might

43:28

make sense. like you have eight

43:31

top prospects in AAA, I want

43:33

to be a 91 team on

43:35

paper, but it is not possible

43:37

to get where we want in

43:39

this all season. It's not possible.

43:41

So if you remove the last

43:43

four years, it might make sense

43:45

to unfortunately for us once again

43:47

to go into the season. hoping

43:49

they perform their 82 to 85

43:51

win projection. You know, the problem

43:53

just becomes, we don't exist in

43:55

a vacuum. I know you're not

43:57

suggesting that. I'm not. Like all

43:59

of us have spent the time

44:01

and energy and in some cases

44:03

a lot of money. By choice.

44:05

Well you, not me. By choice.

44:07

But you know, on these like

44:09

wasted seasons for a team that

44:11

is just raking in money and

44:13

crawling up the, you know, value

44:15

list. So it's like. I hear

44:17

you, but it's like, yeah, it's

44:19

like this level of like inactivity

44:21

toward the playoffs is not tolerated

44:23

by a lot of these big

44:25

market teams, but apparently it is

44:27

by the Cubs. And that plan

44:29

might work, it really might, and

44:31

it would set them up. to

44:33

potentially really have that long. Yeah,

44:35

yeah, yeah, I have that long-term

44:38

success. I see the vision, but

44:40

it's still very risky. You'll be

44:42

going into next year in a

44:44

similar spot where it's like, well,

44:46

if people overperform, if you win

44:48

a lot of those close games,

44:50

then maybe you can get there,

44:52

but can I have the counterpoint

44:54

to that though? The risk profile,

44:56

it's risky for the current for

44:58

an office, but you see it

45:00

through, and if it does not

45:02

work out. then from the business

45:04

operations from Tom's perspective you turn

45:06

it over and you start a

45:08

new leaf you bring it over

45:10

someone younger try to get someone's

45:12

pedigree like the web scene and

45:14

you and you completely overhaul the

45:16

system and they may want to

45:18

run it they may want to

45:20

just see a thrill and then

45:22

decide at the end of the

45:24

off-season. Yeah I think the other

45:26

trick too is you know again

45:28

like I I I understand it,

45:30

but you got it. You have

45:32

to be careful. There's great risk,

45:34

not just in the construction of

45:36

these kind of like low 80s

45:38

teams that we always talk about,

45:40

but there's great risk in, you

45:42

know, leaning on your system and

45:45

counting on guys to develop the

45:47

way that you want. You know,

45:49

we just saw the Cubs. get

45:51

rid of Brennan Davis, like a

45:53

very good like cautionary tale, like

45:55

no fault of the organization, no

45:57

fault of Brennan Davis, he just

45:59

got hurt. A woman being, he

46:01

had some bad injuries, like that

46:03

he just could not recover from,

46:05

but like we had conversations on

46:07

here not even a couple years

46:09

ago, where you're like penciling him

46:11

in as your center fielder for

46:13

the next 10 years, like the

46:15

way he was developing and how

46:17

he was playing. Sometimes it just

46:19

doesn't work. Sometimes it's a development

46:21

issue, the organization fails a player,

46:23

that happens all the time, of

46:25

course. You know, the player has

46:27

off field issues, things like that.

46:29

This was just like bad luck,

46:31

but that's part of the deal.

46:33

So I think that's where some

46:35

of that like risk also is

46:37

highlighted. It's like I see the

46:39

vision of like trying to improve

46:41

this team as much as you

46:43

can. You saw they got destroyed.

46:45

by blowing saves, one run games,

46:47

all those little things. As you

46:49

said, if you can find a

46:52

way to build a pitching staff

46:54

and an offense that's good enough

46:56

to scratch across a few runs

46:58

and say, you know what, we're

47:00

not going to sign one soda,

47:02

we're not gonna be crazy this

47:04

off season, but what we're gonna

47:06

do is we are gonna go

47:08

into the season with a belief

47:10

that we will not lose one

47:12

run games. we will win these

47:14

games if we have a lead

47:16

in the seventh inning you see

47:18

a lot of teams that are

47:20

able to pull this off Cleveland

47:22

was one of them you see

47:24

those crazy stats that they put

47:26

up like in the playoffs or

47:28

anything you know they they lost

47:30

two games all year when they

47:32

were winning after the seventh inning

47:34

like that's the type of team

47:36

the Cubs need to be and

47:38

and and you can do that

47:40

without like crazily spending money or

47:42

mortgaging the future but as you

47:44

said like that puts a lot

47:46

of And this is a natural

47:48

case, but it just puts a

47:50

lot of pressure on like Matt

47:52

Shaw better be a star, like

47:54

Owen Casey better be a star,

47:56

PCA better be a star, because

47:59

anything less than that, you know,

48:01

you're not committing. lately to the

48:03

upper tier level talent that is

48:05

already established as those players. So

48:07

I see the vision, I think

48:09

that's what they're going to do,

48:11

and if it worked, it would

48:13

set them up nicely, but there's

48:15

great risk in that as well.

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purchase player claim. Great risk. It's

49:19

unlikely those guys you mentioned become

49:21

stars at the onset. I'm talking

49:23

April, May. Maybe by August, July,

49:25

being a little ambitious July, they

49:27

can kind of show signs that

49:29

happening, but it's unlikely. It's also

49:31

difficult to trade those guys for

49:34

a bona fide star as well.

49:36

We all want stars. And by

49:38

star we want to shrink down

49:40

the nonsense and you shrink down

49:42

the nonsense by bringing in a

49:44

heavily loaded war guy. That's the

49:46

way you do it. It's unlikely

49:48

they can accomplish that. So my

49:50

thinking is this. From the Cubs

49:52

perspective, how they're interpreting this, not

49:54

my view, but how they're interpreting

49:56

this. The argument goes, well, we

49:58

won 83 games, and our bullpen

50:00

was one of the worst bullpens

50:02

in the league for two months.

50:04

We won 83 games, despite blowing

50:07

the six most saves in Major

50:09

League Baseball. We won 83 games

50:11

with dance bswans, his knee, messed

50:13

up, your PCA, not a consistent

50:15

contributor, with right field defense being

50:17

a problem, with our catcher position

50:19

being a complete wreck for half

50:21

a year, and no third baseman.

50:23

What if we run it back?

50:25

We have Paretta's a third base

50:27

all year. We have our bullpen

50:29

stable at the back end, manifested

50:31

through Eli Morgan, PCAs now full

50:33

time and center field, and you

50:35

have right field defense short up.

50:38

Well, you can make the argument

50:40

to your bosses that hey, we

50:42

actually progress it didn't show and

50:44

now we're going to win a

50:46

90 heavy win season. Yeah. That's

50:48

the argument likely being made. I

50:50

think that's what's going to happen.

50:52

Yeah, and again, I do want

50:54

to clarify for is like, you

50:56

know, talking about how pessimistic we

50:58

are, pissed off, whatever, like, it's

51:00

different. Again, they're, they're in a

51:02

relatively good spot. There are. 20

51:04

something probably teams that are worse

51:06

off than the Chicago Cubs like

51:08

more to you know they didn't

51:11

make the playoffs I understand that

51:13

but in terms of like their

51:15

overall health and position it's it's

51:17

not the worst place to be

51:19

and the plan that we're kind

51:21

of talking about now it can

51:23

totally work the the to play

51:25

Devil's Advocate to that though, is

51:27

like, okay, like for the last,

51:29

you know, toward the end of

51:31

the season, for like the last

51:33

calendar years, say a Suzuki was

51:35

literally a top 10 hitter in

51:37

baseball. That can't dip. If it

51:39

dips, then you don't have one,

51:41

right? You have nobody that's... What

51:44

about Shota repeating last year? Yeah.

51:46

Justin Steele. Does he stay healthy?

51:48

Have you wasted his best years

51:50

or does he have his best

51:52

years in front of it? Like

51:54

there's a lot of ways to

51:56

develop is the bad for real.

51:58

he showed in Tampa Bay with

52:00

that two-month stretch. That's why he's

52:02

built in his... That's why... Not

52:04

only do you need the over

52:06

performances, you need to bring in

52:08

these guys that shore up some

52:10

of the cracks and get rid

52:12

of, you know, trim the fat,

52:15

but you also need like nobody

52:17

to regress. Like that also can

52:19

happen, you know, or just like

52:21

a little bit. So... That's

52:23

what I think they're going to do.

52:26

And I think that it can work.

52:28

But it, you know, again, we're going

52:30

to be going into the years saying,

52:32

all right, well, like, we need PCA,

52:35

like, be this guy for 162 games.

52:37

We need, say, a Suzuki to continue

52:39

being a top hitter in the league.

52:42

We need Ian Happ to keep putting

52:44

up, like, stay where he is. We

52:46

need Dan's B to not. you know,

52:49

hurt his knee and then lie to

52:51

everybody about it or whatever happened there.

52:53

Like, it's just a lot of ifs.

52:56

So, and it goes back to like

52:58

our main complaint is we just, given

53:00

where the Cubs organization stands and who

53:02

they are, which would prefer not to

53:05

have this many ifs, but it doesn't

53:07

mean it can't work and it doesn't

53:09

mean that they can't be a good

53:12

team. and that the organization is in

53:14

some like disaster of a state. I

53:16

hope it doesn't come across that way.

53:19

No, no. It's fine to have those

53:21

risks too. It's just the risk that

53:23

we're talking about the ideal way to

53:25

manage it is to have a front

53:28

loaded value guy at the top of

53:30

the order. That way I'm fine doing

53:32

that. But when the... average projection is

53:35

that of a two to three win

53:37

player with some of the shakiness you're

53:39

talking about well it does leave you

53:42

a little bit unsettled but then again

53:44

like you just you mentioned all the

53:46

the best case scenario and it's actually

53:48

not difficult to think it won't work

53:51

out like it's pretty easy to envision

53:53

PCA being a good player next year

53:55

pretty easy to envision say it being

53:58

the same guy he said two years

54:00

now like good production and like it's

54:02

probably more likely Yeah, I mean, it's

54:05

probably likely he's going to figure it

54:07

out. And then Dansby, like he was

54:09

fine post knee injury and even the

54:11

full sum of the year, still a

54:14

four win player. Like you can easily

54:16

see it working out. And I bet

54:18

some people listen to us right now

54:21

and they're they're getting a little optimistic.

54:23

They're thinking like, oh, you know what?

54:25

I was going to say. That's the

54:28

that's why they're 83 wins and 75

54:30

wins. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

54:32

This is uncertain. They're viewed as solid,

54:35

but they're viewed as so uncertain. Yeah,

54:37

that's right. And so very easy to

54:39

see how they move up. It's very

54:41

easy to see how they move up.

54:44

It's very easy to see enough goes

54:46

wrong that they look out. You look

54:48

at Milwaukee too, like they're probably going

54:51

to lose the damas. They're going to

54:53

lose their their slucker. took over like

54:55

the St. Louis Cardinals like they did.

54:58

I don't know what happened. God, what

55:00

the hell happened over there? Don't know.

55:02

Anyway, so I mean, that's a good contrast

55:04

to because like St. Louis is

55:06

in a position where they're like

55:08

they're they're they're they're admitting that

55:11

they're like we're getting rid of

55:13

people were cutting payroll like and

55:15

so like that's not what the

55:17

Cubs are doing. You know, we're

55:19

frustrated that they're not. kind of

55:21

aggressively trying to position themselves with like

55:23

the Dodgers or the Yankees or whatever.

55:25

But that's just us holding them to

55:28

a standard we believe that they should

55:30

be at and then be as fine.

55:32

It doesn't mean that they're bad or

55:34

that the you know the organization is

55:36

in disarray. You know, but also at the

55:39

same time like it's not fun to do

55:41

these podcasts if we just come on and

55:43

are like. Sure, we love everything they're doing.

55:45

Like hope it works out, you

55:47

know, like, you know, are you

55:49

putting on a show? Are you

55:51

faking all this? Are you secretly

55:53

optimistic right now and you're just

55:56

like lying to everyone? This has

55:58

just been a character. So do

56:00

you think that sounded well? No,

56:02

but like, I mean, some other

56:04

positives too, if we're gonna be

56:06

a little positive right now. Like,

56:08

they're doing some supposedly cutting edge

56:10

stuff. Like, they just hired a

56:13

pretty well respected new pitching consultant

56:15

in Tyler Zombra, like 30 year

56:17

old guy from Trent Athletics, who

56:19

was former raised dude, like, you

56:21

know, that seems pretty interesting, pretty

56:23

fun. I would love. you know

56:25

in however long to look back

56:27

and be like man we we

56:29

doubted jed hoyer no no don't

56:31

do the doubt you shouldn't have

56:33

you know like there's there's that's

56:35

what I don't want to have

56:37

this come off as as doubt

56:40

hasn't earned confidence sure fine has

56:42

an earned confidence doesn't mean I

56:44

know it's yeah doesn't mean I

56:46

don't think it can work out

56:48

I've always said you've always said

56:50

it can work out it can

56:52

work out it's just a piece

56:54

is going Undeniably is slow. I

56:56

just meant I I'm more than

56:58

happy to live in a world

57:00

where you know we look back

57:02

and we're like man we should

57:05

have been beating the drum for

57:07

jed and just like trusting everything

57:09

he ever said and wow did

57:11

this work out in spades like

57:13

it really was a great idea

57:15

to play Nick magical third base

57:17

for an entire year. Great idea

57:19

that train had seen any deal?

57:21

I'm happy to eat crow all

57:23

the time. like or not have

57:25

been totally right on something. I

57:27

just want the Cubs to be

57:29

good. And I say that all

57:32

the time. That's why we're all

57:34

here. If you're still watching this

57:36

episode, do you listen to Brendan

57:38

or I for any number of

57:40

time over the last 10 years

57:42

or so? Like we all, I

57:44

promise, have the same goal in

57:46

mind. We might disagree with how

57:48

the Cubs should get there or

57:50

if they've reached, you know, where

57:52

we want them to, but we

57:54

all just want them to win.

57:57

I don't care how they do

57:59

it. like just win baseball games

58:01

that's all I'm interested in in

58:03

we're we've been wrong many times

58:05

always wrong stupid wrong you go

58:07

back to countless episodes oh you're

58:09

always right yeah maybe Maybe that

58:11

is true. But like same, same

58:13

with the front office, the front

58:15

office. I think what needs to

58:17

be emphasized for my thinking is,

58:19

this is their jobs. Of course,

58:22

they want that 90 plus win

58:24

team. This is their job. They

58:26

don't do this, they're fired. Baseball

58:28

turnover is rapid. They believe that

58:30

this is the best path forward.

58:32

Unfortunately. It has not worked out

58:34

for them. That sucks from their

58:36

point of view. They're not happy.

58:38

They're not happy seeing an 83

58:40

win team. They had Tom Mercosioder

58:42

in the spring training clubhouse clapping

58:44

that we're gonna win the division

58:46

going in in 2024. He's not

58:49

happy either. Although he's breaking in

58:51

the money, maybe quite frankly, he

58:53

doesn't care, right? But. I probably

58:55

wouldn't be happy you're missing out

58:57

on playoff revenue as well. The

58:59

Cubs want to win. Now, do

59:01

they want to win to the

59:03

degree that Poen wants to win?

59:05

And the Dodgers want to win?

59:07

Well, no. That's... no. And that

59:09

rarely happens for most ownership groups.

59:11

This is our reality, but there

59:14

is still some perspective to be

59:16

gained, and this front office wants

59:18

to win, but they're just not

59:20

meeting the standards as you and

59:22

I, but they can still do

59:24

it. Yeah. All right, so we

59:26

got a wrap here. I'll end

59:28

by saying, you know, I do

59:30

want to add, shout out to

59:32

Patrick Wisdom. I don't think that

59:34

was, you know, we need to

59:36

have the big deep conversation. I

59:38

think it was time for them

59:41

to do that. I think they

59:43

can, you know, find better. But

59:45

he was a guy, you know,

59:47

they pulled out a thin air,

59:49

you know, who had I think

59:51

been released by St. Louis, you

59:53

know, not given a shot there

59:55

or a full shot. They gave

59:57

it a shot and he provided

59:59

really good value for them. He

1:00:01

had that red hot stretch in

1:00:03

2021 that for a minute, like

1:00:06

looked like it might save that

1:00:08

might save that And he's been

1:00:10

a fun player to watch. I

1:00:12

know a lot of people don't

1:00:14

love the batting average, but... He

1:00:16

slugged and there was a lot

1:00:18

of time where the Cubs didn't

1:00:20

have anybody that could do that.

1:00:22

And you know for a utility

1:00:24

bench kind of guy, played a

1:00:26

lot of positions for this team,

1:00:28

did what was asked of him.

1:00:30

You know, I know a lot

1:00:33

of people. People love house guy.

1:00:35

Great looks. Got a kick out

1:00:37

of his his stash or his

1:00:39

chest, stuff like that. So, you

1:00:41

know, maybe not a full discussion,

1:00:43

but you know, did warrant I

1:00:45

think cheers. Patrick Wisdom. Some fun

1:00:47

memories with Patrick Wisdom. Absolutely. You

1:00:49

know, always a guy that I'll

1:00:51

root for and I wish well.

1:00:53

So we can end with that.

1:00:55

And like I said, hopefully by

1:00:58

the time this is airing, Nick

1:01:00

Madrigal is joining him and our

1:01:02

long national nightmare is finally, finally

1:01:04

over. That's actually some look forward

1:01:06

to it literally is. I'm hoping

1:01:08

that I'm, you know, reading that

1:01:10

in due time. I think that's

1:01:12

it. You know, before we sign

1:01:14

off, obviously you just want to,

1:01:16

you know, remind everybody still a

1:01:18

few. I think we've got three

1:01:20

Chicago Bears tailgates left with the

1:01:22

CHGO Bears crew. They do great

1:01:25

work. So many live shows, post-game

1:01:27

shows, events. Visit all CHGO.com. Think

1:01:29

about becoming a die-hard member, free-merch,

1:01:31

access to the discord, discount on

1:01:33

the events. It's Blackhawk season, bull

1:01:35

seasons. Our CH shield bulls and

1:01:37

Blackhawks crew do great works. Got

1:01:39

CHGO, Chicago Sky going on. Our

1:01:41

CHGO White Sox crew doing their

1:01:43

off-season, which we talk about how

1:01:45

I can't imagine how you and

1:01:47

I do these episodes all the

1:01:50

time. Godspeed to Herb Sean and

1:01:52

Vinny covering that team heroes to

1:01:54

their community. They would die to

1:01:56

be in our position right now.

1:01:58

So check out everything going on

1:02:00

at CHEO, visit all CH show.com,

1:02:02

don't forget to subscribe to our

1:02:04

YouTube channel CHEO Sports, Brennan and

1:02:06

I will talk to you next

1:02:08

week, hopefully have some more clubs

1:02:10

new. We had some moves this

1:02:12

week, which was nice. And then,

1:02:15

you know, the bullpen move we

1:02:17

like. I think it makes the

1:02:19

team better. A good move in

1:02:21

November. That's a good start. Who

1:02:23

would have thought? Who would have

1:02:25

thought? Six cups. Brendan and I

1:02:27

will talk to you next week.

1:02:29

We appreciate all the support. Talk

1:02:31

to you soon. And as always,

1:02:33

go Cubs. because we know women

1:02:35

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1:02:48

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1:02:50

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1:02:52

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