0:00

I'm John Banther, and this is

0:02

Classical Breakdown. From W.E.T.A. Classical

0:04

in Washington, we're Your Guide

0:06

to Classical Music. In this

0:08

episode, I'm joined by W.E.T.A.

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Classical's Evan Keeley, and we're

0:12

exploring a touching and deeply

0:14

relatable orchestral song cycle by

0:16

Carlos Simon called Songs of

0:18

Separation. We explore the text

0:20

that originates from Rumi and

0:22

show you what to listen

0:24

for as Simon touches on

0:26

different themes and emotions surrounding

0:28

loss and separation and also

0:30

a moment that really took our breaths away.

0:32

And stay with us to the end as

0:34

we answer a listener question. I

0:39

am so excited for this one Evan. I

0:41

mean, I'm excited for all of these

0:43

really, but this is a work that

0:45

really grabbed me the first time I

0:47

heard it. Sometimes I go through a

0:49

lot of things to then finally settle

0:51

on a topic or a work, but

0:53

this is one that was pretty easy.

0:55

And I don't think we've talked about...

0:57

songs for voice and orchestra before. So

0:59

this is a good opportunity. Yeah, I

1:01

think this is our first episode on

1:04

classical breakdown about an orchestral song cycle.

1:06

And like you, John, I'm really excited

1:08

that it is this work by Carlos

1:10

Simon, really incredibly exciting composer. And

1:12

of course, the performance will be

1:15

listening to also is just an

1:17

amazing performance by some truly great

1:20

artists here in Washington. And it

1:22

is a recent recording as this

1:24

was commissioned recently. It was commissioned

1:26

by the National Symphony Orchestra for

1:28

two-time Grammy winner Gine Bridges and

1:31

it premiered on April 21st, 2023.

1:33

And the recording that we're going

1:35

to be sampling was made from

1:37

the live performances from that week

1:39

and it was also later released

1:42

with some of his other works

1:44

just last year. But Evan, give

1:46

us a little bit about Carlos

1:48

Simon for those still unfamiliar. Well,

1:50

like I was saying, John, very

1:53

exciting contemporary composer born in

1:55

1986 here in Washington. My

1:57

understanding is he grew up

1:59

mostly... in Atlanta, Georgia. He's an

2:01

alum of Georgia State and Morehouse

2:04

College, and he is a doctorate

2:06

from the University of Michigan. He

2:08

was, among his many honors, he

2:11

was awarded the Sphinx Medal of

2:13

Excellence in 2021, the Sphinx Organization,

2:15

fantastic organization. 2023, he was nominated

2:18

for his work, Requiem for the

2:20

Enslaved, for the Grammy that year.

2:22

He has been composer in residence

2:24

at the Kennedy Center since 2021,

2:27

and if I'm not mistaken, they

2:29

just renewed for at least another

2:31

season. So that's very exciting for

2:34

us here in Washington. He's also

2:36

an associate professor of music. at

2:38

Georgetown and recently became the

2:40

first ever composer chair, a

2:42

new position, with the Boston

2:44

Symphony Orchestra. So, Carlos Simon,

2:46

really amazing composer, and of

2:48

course his music is getting

2:50

performed all over the US,

2:52

all over the world, and

2:54

rightly so, really gifted composer,

2:57

whom I admire very much. So as

2:59

we jump into his work, Songs of

3:01

Separation, we can look at the program

3:03

notes that he wrote, and really, I

3:06

think sets this up. He wrote, We

3:08

all as humans experience separation in a

3:10

variety of forms, whether it be through

3:13

the death of a loved one, a

3:15

breakup, a divorce, or a permanent relocation

3:17

from family and friends. A parting of

3:20

ways is a part of life for

3:22

us all. to illustrate this musically, I

3:24

chose to use the timeless words of

3:27

the 13th century Persian poet

3:29

Jalal Aldin Muhammad Rumi to

3:31

convey this inevitable human experience.

3:34

Each of the four movements

3:36

depicts moments of grief, sorrow,

3:38

as well as hope and

3:41

encouragement. Rumi reminds us through

3:43

his words that what hurts you also

3:45

blesses you. This is quite a setup

3:48

for the work and... That's a

3:50

pretty key thing to remember too. What

3:52

hurts you also blesses you as we

3:54

go through this one. And for me,

3:56

Evan, Rumi is an interesting poet. Now

3:58

I don't often always go... back, you

4:00

know, really far back in time reading

4:02

poetry, but there have been multiple

4:04

times where I've read something and thought,

4:07

wow, that's so relatable. This person

4:09

is speaking to me. You know, who wrote this?

4:11

Was it recently? And then it was like, oh,

4:13

it was written by Rumi like 800 years ago.

4:15

Yeah. He lived in the century

4:17

Persian poet, a great Muslim

4:20

mystic. And his poetry has

4:22

been for many years enormously

4:24

popular, certainly here in the

4:26

English -speaking world. One of

4:28

those timeless poets whose insights

4:31

really transcend time and place.

4:33

Interesting choice by Carlos Simon

4:35

to set the poetry of

4:37

Rumi. And I think

4:39

Simon's music and Rumi's poetry have

4:41

some characteristics in common. They're

4:43

both very accessible. They both have

4:45

broad appeal. They both have

4:48

a kind of plain spoken bluntness

4:50

that is layered over profundity

4:52

and sophistication. Both Simon and Rumi

4:54

have a sense of irony,

4:56

a sense of playfulness, but there's

4:58

also a keen awareness with

5:00

both of them of both

5:02

the tragedy of the human condition,

5:04

but also the abundance and

5:07

the hopefulness of life. And it's

5:09

interesting to me that in

5:11

this song cycle, Simon uses the,

5:13

we'll say, quote unquote, translations

5:15

by Coleman Barks, which are not

5:17

translations of Rumi specifically. He

5:19

doesn't actually know the Persian language,

5:22

but Coleman Barks, who is

5:24

a poet, what he does with

5:26

Rumi is he writes these

5:28

poetic paraphrases of other English translations

5:30

of Rumi. So this has been

5:32

a very popular way for English

5:34

speakers to experience Rumi. The extent to

5:36

which that's stripping it of its

5:39

Islamic focus is an interesting question, which

5:41

we don't really have time to

5:43

get into today. But suffice it to

5:45

say, Carlos Simon has chosen texts

5:47

for this song cycle that are going

5:49

to resonate very deeply with many

5:52

of us. Certainly you and I, John,

5:54

had this experience as we got

5:56

to know this piece. And Carlos Simon's

5:58

music really expresses those ideas and. language,

6:00

which I find really accessible, but

6:03

it's not shallow, it's not pandering

6:05

music, it's a really worthwhile piece.

6:07

And I love how you describe

6:10

that plain-spoken bluntness here because I

6:12

really do experience that, and it

6:15

is accessible in a way that's

6:17

also rewarding each time you listen

6:19

to it. Now

6:27

the first song is called The

6:29

Garden and it opens quite picture-esque.

6:31

There is this bell tree in

6:33

the beginning that the percussion is

6:35

swiping and it's a sound that

6:37

is familiar and really feels like

6:40

is inviting us into something being

6:42

drawn or lured in and this

6:44

being Carlos Simon we're going to

6:46

hear more high sounding percussion instruments

6:48

as we go too. Yeah, Carlos

6:50

Simon is very creative when it

6:52

comes to percussion instruments and he's

6:54

really got a gift for creating

6:56

these very intricate sound colors, particularly

6:58

with percussion instruments. They're actually nine

7:01

percussion instruments or set of percussion

7:03

instruments or set of percussion instruments

7:05

in this piece. Ten, if you

7:07

count the timpani. There's a vibraphone,

7:09

there's a glauch and spiel, symbols,

7:11

triangle, several different kinds of drums.

7:13

And you mentioned the bell tree,

7:15

which is a sound I think

7:17

our listeners are familiar with, they

7:20

may not know the term. but

7:22

it's just a stack of little

7:24

brass bowls and you drag a

7:26

beater like maybe a metal beater

7:28

or a plastic mallet to create

7:30

that sort of glistening sound and

7:32

you'll hear that frequently in this

7:34

piece. Yes, and just after this

7:36

moment we hear this... Nice little

7:38

motif that's played three times pretty

7:41

quickly in the winds and the

7:43

lower strings and you hear this

7:45

growing and kind of enveloping you.

7:47

Now we've not even gotten to

7:49

the text yet, but it opens

7:51

with grief can be the garden

7:53

of compassion, keep your heart open

7:55

to sort of paraphrase. This is

7:57

something maybe we also experience in...

8:00

life in retrospect and I think

8:02

in the music here also retrospectively

8:04

but it feels very warm and

8:06

inviting and as I walk into

8:08

the music it feels like you

8:10

are in a garden with things

8:12

growing up growing up around you. And

8:14

then Evan there is a moment

8:17

that is a great example of

8:19

subtle orchestration and what we're talking

8:21

about when we say how composers

8:23

combine instruments to create new sounds

8:26

or develop them as a... piece

8:28

goes through because that

8:30

bell tree is back

8:32

but now it's paired

8:34

with something else there's

8:36

something higher in the strings

8:38

and it sounds like like

8:40

a side. Now if you

8:43

imagine that this did not

8:45

have the strings then it would

8:47

be kind of like Well, maybe

8:49

we're right back at the beginning

8:51

with that original Bell Tree sound,

8:53

that motif coming back in, but

8:56

we're not at the beginning. This

8:58

is something different. And it's just

9:00

those subtle things to hear that

9:02

Carlos Simon does very plainly in

9:04

full view, but it doesn't feel

9:06

like it's, I don't know, pointing a

9:09

finger in your face. And

9:12

we're approaching the point where Gene

9:14

Bridges enters, so Evan, why don't

9:16

you go ahead and read for

9:19

us the text for this first

9:21

song, The Garden? Your grief can

9:23

be the Garden of Compassion.

9:26

If you keep your heart open

9:28

through everything, your pain can become

9:31

your ally in your life search

9:33

for love and wisdom. But

9:35

listen to me. For one

9:37

moment, quit being sad.

9:39

Here blessings dropping their

9:42

blossoms around you. What

9:44

hurts you blesses you.

9:46

Darkness is your candle.

10:08

And when she enters, it feels

10:10

so warm and safe when she

10:12

says your grief can be the

10:15

garden of compassion, keeping your heart

10:17

open. It feels like you are

10:19

being... enveloped and you feel so

10:21

so safe. And there's this wonderful

10:23

moment right before the voice enters.

10:25

There's this low brass kind of

10:27

almost like a hymn, like a

10:30

corral. And then you have this

10:32

harp with the doubled by the

10:34

two flutes bringing in the vocal

10:36

line with this very this new

10:38

thematic material, this very lovely lyrical

10:40

melody. And then the voice just

10:42

comes in with this message about

10:45

grief and grief can be the

10:47

garden of compassion. It's very arresting.

10:50

And there's some light, call and response,

10:52

maybe you can call it that, or

10:54

acknowledgement. And as you were reading, Evan,

10:56

people might have thought there was a

10:58

kind of character change as you were

11:01

reading when you said in the middle

11:03

part, but listen to me. There's a

11:05

turn in the poetry, and I always

11:07

encourage people when you read the text

11:09

to music, and you see or hear

11:11

something like that, something change. Think about,

11:13

you know, what will happen musically with

11:15

that. Because

11:21

when I read and heard this the

11:23

first time the first three lines it's

11:25

so open and enveloping and then there's

11:27

a change in tone like a stern

11:29

lesson a command this authority figure that

11:32

is loving us is also here to

11:34

teach us and so that but listen

11:36

to me is like a light you

11:38

know slap to knock you out yeah

11:40

the music really grabs you there in

11:42

that moment mm-hmm and so I was

11:45

already wondering how Simon is going to

11:47

be portraying this and that's something that

11:49

you can Think about as you read

11:51

text, especially when there's

11:53

just a few lines like this.

11:56

My favorite moment in this

11:58

song, Evan, happens. about mid,

12:00

little later than halfway through. And

12:02

that's when we get to the

12:05

line about the dropping of blossoms

12:07

around you, the blessings dropping around

12:09

you. This is so clever because

12:11

as she sings this line about

12:13

dropping, the strings and some others

12:15

play this ascending line. It's very

12:17

gentle, kind of not drawing attention.

12:20

And then just near the top,

12:22

some winds join in with a...

12:24

sparkly shiny quality to it more

12:26

articulation and then it descends and

12:28

it feels like just blossoms those

12:30

like purple lilac leaves I

12:32

don't know something just gently

12:34

sparkily like glitter flowing around

12:56

And then right after the voice drops

12:58

out at the end of that phrase,

13:01

there's this beautiful, orchestral response, it feels

13:03

to me almost like the only response

13:05

to what's just been said, the words

13:07

we've just heard is this wordless sort

13:10

of moment of meditation. And thinking

13:12

of things in retrospect, that line

13:14

that does that whole ascending, descending,

13:16

that happens actually right at the

13:18

beginning, but just... just in the

13:20

strings. So there's really only a

13:22

couple of things it feels like

13:24

that Simon is using and he's

13:26

using them to their fullest extent

13:28

for each song. Now Evan there's another

13:30

moment with the bell tree and maybe

13:33

I'm hearing too much or reading too

13:35

much into it but it sounds like

13:37

there's such a subtle subtle difference. The

13:42

dynamic is a bit higher, it's

13:44

a little bit louder, and it

13:46

feels like the percussionist is following

13:48

through more. It's not trailing off,

13:50

like maybe wind chimes before a

13:52

dream sequence in a TV show,

13:54

but it follows through more, and

13:56

I hear something a little bit

13:58

extra there that... maybe Nozada, the conductor,

14:01

asked for. And the composer asked for

14:03

too. And one the things I like

14:05

about Simon's use of the, especially the

14:07

bell tree, we're really kind of focusing

14:09

on that. It's very easy for that

14:11

sound to be a kind of musical

14:13

cliche, but the way he inserts it,

14:15

it really has this kind of ongoing

14:17

dynamic presence that it never gets to

14:20

be this sort of this, like it's

14:22

like a TV show, like, oh, this

14:24

is the dream, bring, it really adds

14:26

color in a way that's very rich.

14:28

And the ending is quite beautiful too,

14:30

isn't it? So the ending of

14:32

this movement has a kind of

14:34

unresolved quality that I actually really

14:36

like. It sounds like where there

14:38

should be like one more chord.

14:40

And maybe it's a kind of

14:42

like a modal sound. I keep

14:44

thinking about Beethoven's highly good Don

14:47

Kazang and the A minor string

14:49

quartet and the Lydian mode and

14:51

has that sort of old fashioned

14:53

pre -tonal kind of sound. We're clearly

14:55

in a G major kind of

14:57

a setting here, and these F

14:59

-sharps spell out a G major kind

15:01

of sound. And yet we end with

15:03

this C major chord, which is like

15:05

the subdominant, and we're like the plagal

15:07

cadence, the amen, but it's the ah

15:09

without the men, you know, just sort

15:11

of ah, and then it just sort

15:13

of stops and we're kind of waiting.

15:15

And it's the ending of the first

15:18

movement, there's more music. And yet there's

15:20

this sense of it just sort of

15:22

fades away. It's really, it's a very

15:24

old fashioned, very simple musical technique, and

15:26

yet it really works very well at

15:28

the end of this movement. What

15:31

a great way to describe the

15:33

ending there. And this song,

15:35

The Garden, it is, it's a

15:37

beautiful song. Of course, there's more

15:39

to come. I'm thinking, you

15:41

know, what are we coming away

15:43

from here? What are we coming

15:46

away with here? Grief is the only

15:48

word that's capitalized in the text outside

15:50

of like the beginning of a sentence.

15:52

Like grief is a thing that you

15:54

hold and will always be there, grow

15:56

around it as opposed to growing

15:58

around you, maybe. Quite

16:01

a contrast from all of

16:04

us Evan is the second

16:06

song burning hell and it

16:09

even says at the top

16:11

of the of the of

16:14

the music dark and slightly

16:16

out of balance Yeah, that's

16:18

the tempo marking for

16:21

this movement and it

16:23

seems to me more

16:25

than slightly, but we'll get

16:28

into that I plant some flowers

16:30

without you, they become thorns. I

16:32

see a peacock, it turns into

16:34

a snake. I play the harp,

16:36

nothing but noise. I go to

16:38

the highest heaven, it is a

16:41

burning hell. What an opening for

16:43

this work, Evan. Yeah, this

16:45

is really kind of a

16:47

frightening movement. And it opens

16:49

with bass drum. feeling like

16:51

it's rumbling out of the earth

16:53

joined by the tam-tam. It's very

16:55

guttural in that sound. Yeah, the

16:57

bass drum and the tam-tam are

16:59

both pitchless percussion instruments so they

17:01

just create this sort of unearthly

17:03

rumble some of the deepest sounds

17:05

of the deepest sounds of the

17:07

deepest sounds of the orchestra, but

17:09

we also hear the timpani, which is

17:11

a pitch that the timpani is

17:13

playing, and then other instruments come

17:15

in on the same pitch. It's

17:17

a C-away as we can be.

17:19

in terms of a key shift.

17:22

So we're really kind of thrown

17:24

off balance by this very simple,

17:26

but very effective musical technique of

17:28

entering in a whole different key.

17:31

There's this very stormy, orchestral color,

17:33

very threatening and ominous, but there's

17:35

also this strength, I think, that's

17:37

coming, this sense of coming out

17:40

of the earth. It's frightening, but

17:42

it's also powerful. Time signature is

17:44

5-4, and it's really hard to

17:46

find where the beat is

17:48

as you're listening. So we're

17:51

really adrift rhythmically and harmonically

17:53

and there's this sense

17:55

of chaos and power

17:57

and something frightening but

18:00

maybe also something that's going

18:02

to bring us to a

18:04

stronger place. We're not really

18:06

sure where we're going. And

18:08

I find myself at the

18:10

beginning of this movement really

18:12

scared, but also wanting to

18:14

find out where the whole

18:16

narrative is taking us. Yes,

18:18

and there's something interesting going

18:20

on with these. big block

18:22

chords there at the opening.

18:24

They feel like white hot

18:26

despair. You can't look, you

18:28

can't, you can't touch them.

18:30

And what Carla Simon is

18:32

doing in the music, he

18:34

has the strings with a

18:36

tremolo. They're playing that same

18:38

note back and forth. And

18:40

what he also does, might

18:42

be hard to hear in

18:44

this recording, maybe on purpose.

18:46

In the score, he has

18:49

the wins also with a

18:51

tremolo, but in a way

18:53

you don't always see. Instead

18:55

of like the strings moving

18:57

rapidly between one note, they're

18:59

actually moving between. a larger

19:01

interval like thirds and fourths.

19:03

This happens later, more isolated

19:05

that I'll include where it's

19:07

easier to hear, but I

19:09

think that adds to this

19:11

interesting blast of sound in

19:13

these chords. From which the

19:15

strings absolutely take off, we've

19:17

got some trumpets with the

19:19

Harmon Mutes there with the

19:21

stems taken out, which if

19:23

you heard our episode with

19:25

Chris Gecker, you already know

19:27

what a Harmon Mute is,

19:29

but quite a sound. And

19:31

when Janette Bridges enters, it

19:33

feels kind of off. As

19:35

you already said, we're in

19:38

5-4, it's hard to really

19:40

feel where we are on

19:42

purpose as I imagine. Yeah,

19:44

I think so. And when

19:46

she enters, it feels like

19:48

almost like a funhouse mirror

19:50

of a line. There's a

19:52

bassoon and other things that

19:54

are playing around, but right

19:56

from the beginning feels eerie.

19:58

Yeah, I love what you

20:00

said about a fun house

20:02

mirror, that sense of things

20:04

being so... of warped and

20:06

distorted. And I think, again,

20:08

we were saying this is

20:10

a kind of, this is

20:12

intentional on the composer's part.

20:14

Also very intentional, I think,

20:16

is how he treats the

20:18

brass when it comes to

20:20

the part where, you know,

20:22

I plant flowers without you,

20:24

they become, they become thorns.

20:27

Further down, it would be

20:29

so easy to invoke here

20:31

something like Diaz-Yeray. Plenty of

20:33

composers have done that, but

20:35

by returning to that first

20:37

note and then the fast

20:39

crescendo de crescendo, it changes

20:41

the whole thing. Another thing

20:43

that caught me by surprise

20:45

Evan was the line, I

20:47

play the harp, nothing but

20:49

noises. I wasn't expecting how

20:51

he would be treating this.

21:01

written into the score the vocalist

21:03

actually speaks there. There are no

21:05

pitches and you hear her speaking

21:07

in that She has a very

21:09

beautiful speaking voice as well as

21:11

an amazing singing voice And what

21:14

you hear right afterwards is this

21:16

loud Pizzocado in the cello and

21:18

bases. It's like a bar talk

21:20

pits that we've mentioned before popularize

21:22

with Bella Bartok, the composer, you're

21:24

pitting, you're plucking the string so

21:27

hard and perpendicular to the fingerboard

21:29

that it slaps the fingerboard, and

21:31

I think it's like an easy

21:33

way to think about it is

21:35

if you know, put a rubber

21:37

band around your wrist. I remember

21:40

back in like the 90s, it

21:42

was like if you want to

21:44

break a habit, you know, put

21:46

a rubber band on your wrist

21:48

or something. Yeah, probably not a

21:51

good thing to be doing, but

21:53

that's the effect. Something really changes

21:55

halfway through the P7 where we

21:57

have, it's a burning hell and

21:59

it repeats over and over again.

22:01

And now Jeanette, who is a

22:04

mezzo soprano, that's her range, she

22:06

starts getting lower and lower and

22:08

lower. She's leaving the mezzo soprano

22:10

range. The sound is kind of

22:12

uncomfortable within the music. If you

22:14

have headphones especially, you hear the

22:17

resonance slightly getting less and less

22:19

as it fins going. down sliding

22:21

into the abyss, tritones in the

22:23

cheddar and base that are approaching

22:25

it from different directions. That's just

22:27

to say that whole thing you

22:30

said before, that plain spoken language

22:32

where there's only a couple of

22:34

things happening, but they're very, very

22:36

well put together and intentional. It's

22:38

really fascinating to look at Carlos

22:41

Simon's use of text repetition throughout

22:43

this song cycle, but especially in

22:45

this section, it's a burning hell.

22:47

This phrase gets repeated over and

22:49

over again, and even the words

22:51

get fragmented. It's a burning hell,

22:54

it's a burning hell, a burning

22:56

hell, burning hell, hell. So even

22:58

the words become this sort of

23:00

this motivically fragmented vocal writing, as

23:02

you said, quite remarkable, John. She

23:04

starts off with this punishingly low,

23:07

she goes down to a low

23:09

F sharp, that's the middle of

23:11

a baritone voice range to give

23:13

you as a context, kind of

23:15

gradually the testatura gets higher and

23:17

higher and higher, and finally she

23:20

climbs just a few measures later

23:22

to the top of her range,

23:24

the high G's or the high

23:26

A flies, the top of a

23:28

mesosopreno range. So it kind of

23:31

just swoops, you know, from the

23:33

bottom to the top over a

23:35

period of maybe, like a minute

23:37

and a minute and a half

23:39

or less. And it's of course

23:41

written for Gene Bridges. Simon seems

23:44

to really have a sense of

23:46

her technical capabilities, which of course

23:48

are quite exceptional, but also her

23:50

capacity for nuance and intensity of

23:52

expression. She's a very gifted artist.

23:54

She gives us amazing performance and

23:57

of course, Colonel Simon being the

23:59

composer and residence at the Kennedy

24:01

Center, he really knows the National

24:03

Symphony Orchestra, he really knows Maestro

24:05

Noseira's conducting style and he really

24:07

knows how to use all of

24:10

that in a way that's very

24:12

creative and very powerful. I wonder

24:14

if Simon at one point asked

24:16

her, how low can you sing?

24:18

Okay, what about lower? What about

24:20

a little bit lower? How about

24:23

a little bit lower than that?

24:25

and it works so perfectly here.

24:27

Something else to listen to is

24:29

how he uses low brass in

24:31

all of the songs, but especially

24:33

in this and the following ones.

24:36

Here it feels like almost like

24:38

tectonic plates. I mean if you

24:40

ever played Super Mario 64, it's

24:42

the bouser level where the land

24:44

is moving around and things are

24:46

falling around you, but it feels

24:49

like these are tectonic plates and

24:51

things are just shifting in huge,

24:53

huge ways before it just kind

24:55

of... ends in a kind of

24:57

unresolved way. Yeah, it really

24:59

creates this musical insecurity as

25:02

we're listening. Now this is

25:04

a kind of separation that

25:06

most people experience at

25:08

one point where like

25:10

the loss of a loved one where

25:13

you know you plant flowers, the

25:15

thorns, the harp, it's noise, a

25:17

peacock, it's a snake. You know,

25:19

nothing feels almost worth it. It's

25:22

that permanent separation that

25:24

just... feels very dreadful.

25:26

And even from a technical perspective,

25:28

you know, Carlos Simon composes tonal

25:30

music. He's not writing atatone music

25:33

like, you know, Arnold Shenberg or

25:35

something like that. This movement really

25:37

stretches the boundaries of tonality. What

25:39

key are we in? where we're

25:42

kind of wandering around harmonically, this

25:44

chromaticism, there's these tritones, there's these

25:46

dense harmonies, these tone clusters, you

25:48

know, like we said at the

25:51

beginning, the tempo marking is slightly

25:53

out of balance. Seems more than

25:55

slightly to me, and it even

25:57

ends on this cluster. G natural. G-sharp

26:00

and A-natural clump together, like imagine

26:02

beating your fist on a piano

26:04

keyboard and all those pitches sounding

26:06

at once, and there's that C-sharp

26:08

in the base. It's like trying

26:11

to be a C-sharp minor chord,

26:13

but there's too many pitches in

26:15

it, and we don't even know

26:17

where we are tonally. And that's

26:19

how the piece, that's how this

26:21

movement ends with this uncertainty and

26:23

this unresolved sense of loss. Nothing

26:26

seems worth it anymore. This grief

26:28

that just sort of overwhelms. And

26:30

we'll get into the third song,

26:32

Dance, right after this. Classical

26:37

Breakdown, Your Guide to

26:39

Classical Music, is brought

26:41

to you by WETA

26:43

Classical. Join us for

26:45

the music any time,

26:47

day, or night at

26:49

WETA Classical.org, where you'll

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also find educational resources

26:53

like Take Note, the

26:55

WETA Classical playlist, and

26:57

our blog, Classical Score. Find

27:00

all that and more at WETA

27:02

Classical.org. Dance. And looking at the

27:04

first five lines, the first word

27:06

of each one is dance. And

27:08

this is quite a contrast to

27:10

the last one we heard. And

27:12

well, you'll hear it's just so

27:15

beautiful and inviting. Dance when you're

27:17

broken. Dance if you're torn. Dance

27:19

in the middle of the fighting.

27:21

Dance in your blood. Dance when

27:23

you're perfectly free. Now,

27:43

obviously, quite a contrast to the

27:46

second song, right, Evan? And we

27:48

also have joyfully written at the

27:50

top of the movement, too. Yeah,

27:52

a complete contrast from what we

27:54

just heard in the second movement,

27:57

in every aspect, rhythmically, harmonically, lyrically,

27:59

like you said. Joyfully is the

28:01

temple marking. It's in six,

28:04

four time. It stays in

28:06

that time signature for the

28:09

most part. It gives it

28:11

as waltz-like feeling. So the

28:13

rhythmic ambiguity we found in

28:16

earlier movements are completely absent.

28:18

Very clear where the rhythmm

28:21

is, very clear what the

28:23

downbeat is, very danceable rhythm.

28:26

And I love how the

28:28

word dance is repeated. each time

28:30

in pretty kind of different situations.

28:32

Dance when you're broken. Dance if

28:35

you're torn. Dance in fighting. Dance

28:37

in your blood. Quite a contrast

28:39

of words together with a joyful

28:41

sound. Dance is the hook and

28:44

it's like, well, this person teaching

28:46

you dance when you're broken.

28:48

Dance when you're torn. Dance in

28:50

the fighting. And the repetition of

28:52

the word in this context, the

28:55

way Carlos Simon kind of spells

28:57

it out musically rather than being...

28:59

tedious and repetitive just has this

29:02

sort of building energy. So like

29:04

I was saying, John, a great contrast

29:06

from the second movement. We're now

29:08

in this very clear rhythmic pattern,

29:10

this very danceable six four, one,

29:13

two, three, four, five, six, one,

29:15

two, three, four, five, six, totally,

29:17

also, we're very clear, very unambiguous,

29:19

C major, and then all of

29:22

a sudden, just about a little

29:24

after a minute into the beginning,

29:26

we have an unprepared modulation up

29:28

a half step to D-flat major,

29:30

and we stay there for the

29:33

rest of the movement. It's very

29:35

simple. classic unprepared half-step modulation up

29:37

like you'd find in a Broadway

29:39

musical and yet it doesn't have

29:42

this sort of kitchy or trite

29:44

quality about it. It just really

29:46

works. The way he changes keys or

29:48

as you describe it is kind of

29:51

a classic thing and actually in more

29:53

commercial music I think it's called like

29:55

the the truck drivers gear change.

30:00

It's like, you know, literally when

30:02

the truck, you know, getting out

30:05

of a stoplight, that immediate change.

30:07

We heard a lot of that

30:09

in the 90s and 2000s and

30:11

being employed here, too. Looking at

30:13

the second half of the text,

30:16

in this song, dance is not

30:18

repeated again and again. It's, life

30:20

is ending, God gives another, admit

30:22

the finite, praise the infinite, love

30:25

is a spring submerged, every separate

30:27

drop, a whole new life. Now,

30:29

when we get to that line,

30:31

Love is a Spring submerged, it's

30:34

a sudden change, but it's very

30:36

momentary, isn't it? There's a sudden

30:38

affectation, a popular commercial style of

30:40

Love is a Spring submerged. That

30:59

really caught me completely off-garter out

31:01

of the blue and just it

31:03

goes right back to it like

31:05

as if nothing happened back to

31:08

the more operatic style right now

31:10

we hear part of this commercial

31:12

style also in the low brass

31:15

that is something you hear in

31:17

a lot of the music from

31:19

also the 60s and 70s and

31:22

the way he uses brass In

31:24

conjunction with Voice is so beautiful

31:26

because of the voice leading he

31:29

does. There's so many works that

31:31

we play that it's like, yeah,

31:33

you get to a section where

31:36

it's this more commercial style and

31:38

the voice leading is like, oh

31:40

my gosh, you know, this is...

31:42

This is boring, this is lame,

31:45

this is not fun. One chord

31:47

is not really fitting together very

31:49

well, it sounds good enough, and

31:52

Simon doesn't cut any corners, it's,

31:54

you know, the sophisticated, controversial writing.

31:56

It's all there. This is really

31:59

a very, very advanced composer writing

32:01

in a very accessible style, but

32:03

because he's so gifted and the

32:06

musicians performing the piece are so

32:08

gifted, it really comes across as

32:10

not just another, you know, shallow

32:13

kind of a thing. There is

32:15

a cinematic quality to this movement,

32:17

there's a theatricality, it's very appealing,

32:20

it's very moving, like I said,

32:22

just maybe a hint of sort

32:24

of a broadway, kind of a

32:26

style, but it never descends

32:29

into... This

32:31

is a

32:33

song, the

32:36

third song

32:38

out of

32:40

four here

32:42

that feels

32:44

like we

32:47

don't have

32:50

to explain.

32:54

All too much, a lot of it

32:56

is really there for you to enjoy.

32:58

And it's also a similar thing. I

33:00

think we say when we get to

33:02

third movements. of symphonies and it had

33:05

me thinking like this is a very

33:07

symphonic flow to this to this work

33:09

as well and that really works. Yeah

33:11

it's like the menuetto of a four-movement

33:13

heightened symphony you know this this dance

33:16

in the in a three-beat style you

33:18

know going all the way back to

33:20

the 18th century and yet it also

33:22

feels very contemporary so it's a wonderful

33:25

you know looking backward looking forward

33:27

kind of a kind of experience.

33:29

And a song about... dancing

33:31

with I guess with what you have in

33:33

life regardless of the situation. I

33:35

think it goes in more and

33:37

towards of religious or Islamic aspect

33:39

of you know life is ending

33:42

God gives another I think that

33:44

kind of comes into play in

33:46

the in the last song but

33:48

really just a beautiful one to

33:50

enjoy and listen for how the

33:52

voice is paired with different instruments

33:54

at different times. That's something to

33:56

listen for especially trumpet I think is

33:58

some beautiful lines. We are all the

34:01

same. That's the title of

34:03

it. And it says freely

34:05

and transparent in the music

34:07

right above the music. Evan,

34:09

why don't you go ahead

34:11

and read the text for us

34:13

on this one? Listen to the reads

34:15

as they sway apart. Hear

34:17

them speak of lost friends.

34:20

At birth you were cut from

34:22

your bed crying and grasping

34:24

in separation. Everyone listens,

34:27

knowing your song, knowing your

34:29

song. You yearn for

34:32

others who know

34:34

your name and

34:36

the words to

34:39

your lament.

34:41

We are all

34:43

the same, all

34:46

the same, longing

34:48

to find our

34:50

way back, back

34:53

to the one,

34:55

back to the

34:58

only one. And

35:06

it has such a

35:09

beautiful opening with also

35:11

some more evocative percussion

35:13

in there. And there

35:16

is a thing I

35:18

think to point out

35:20

about even just the

35:23

first line as she

35:25

sings, listen to the reeds

35:27

as they sway apart. It's

35:29

another command, right, because it's

35:32

listen. because musically this can

35:34

be done without that break

35:37

at all. It can

35:39

just really flow from listen

35:41

to the reads as they sway

35:44

apart. But then that command that

35:46

part of really keeping you in

35:48

the moment would be lost. And

35:51

we've heard this in all kinds

35:53

of music. It reminded me actually

35:55

I was thinking as I

35:57

was listening this morning of... you

36:00

know, that command, like in Wagner's

36:02

Tristan Undi Zolda, Bronjana, Indi Zolda,

36:04

you know, listen, the horns, the

36:06

horns still speak, that kind of

36:08

thing. Another thing that's I think

36:10

commanding, if you will, about this

36:12

opening is we start off, the

36:14

first pitch we hear is a

36:16

G natural. The previous movement we

36:18

just ended in D-flat major. So

36:20

G-natural is a tritone away. It's

36:22

as far away. You know, we

36:24

had this transition from the first

36:27

movement to the second movement a

36:29

half-step away. That's very harmonically unrelated.

36:31

The tritone relationship is similar. It's

36:33

very far away. Suddenly we're in

36:35

a whole new world harmonically and

36:37

tonally. And it just like makes

36:39

you sit up like, oh, what's

36:42

happening now? What's something really important

36:44

is happening? And I find myself

36:46

really just want to hear that

36:48

G natural and I already

36:51

want to pay attention. At

36:53

birth, you were cut from

36:55

your bed, crying and grasping

36:58

at separation. And there's the

37:00

line, at birth, you were

37:03

cut from your bed,

37:05

crying and grasping and

37:07

separation. In the music, it's spoken.

37:10

And I wonder, you know,

37:12

why... Did Simon do this

37:14

as to draw attention as

37:16

to everyone's first moment, you know,

37:18

birth, cut from your bed? You're

37:20

crying and grasping and separation. It

37:22

really grabs you. And I just

37:24

like how he's done some of

37:26

these things. He's slight. moments

37:28

of differentness, slight moments of affectation

37:30

in the singing. And maybe in

37:32

some cases, you know, the words

37:35

have their own music and we

37:37

don't need pitches assigned to them

37:39

in order to convey a musicality.

37:41

I'm not sure, but it is

37:43

a very arresting moment. I mean,

37:45

it's a universal experience, I guess.

37:47

I mean, everyone... got here at

37:49

one point. Yeah, we all cried out we

37:51

were born or had to deal with the

37:53

separation of being born whether we remember it

37:55

or not and this poem really speaks to

37:57

that in a powerful way in the music.

38:00

invokes that in a powerful

38:02

way. I think part of what

38:04

he's also doing with the music

38:07

is being, well, very, as he

38:09

said in the beginning,

38:11

freely and transparent. Transparent,

38:13

I think, is a

38:15

part of this because

38:17

the music isn't trying to force

38:20

too much. It's not drawing too

38:22

much attention to itself. It's just...

38:24

supporting in a way that makes

38:26

you focus, I think, on the

38:29

text more, which following this is

38:31

everyone listens, knowing your song, you

38:33

yearn for others who know your

38:35

name, and the words to your

38:38

lament, we're all the same, that

38:40

then that kind of turn

38:42

of another universal experience, the

38:45

wanting of community, of belonging,

38:47

and that we all have this

38:49

same feeling towards it.

38:51

There's this musical language of

38:54

connection here that I find

38:56

really, really speaks powerfully. I

38:58

know I've already said a couple

39:01

of times, something that caught me

39:03

completely off guard, but the way

39:05

he ends this entire thing and

39:07

the second half of this song is,

39:10

was so beautiful. I mean, I wish

39:12

I could go back and hear it

39:14

again for the first time. when

39:37

the percussion then mimics a drum

39:39

set. We have a total style

39:41

change, total character change, brushes on

39:43

the snare, there's the high hat,

39:45

there's a symbol, but that voice

39:47

singing style remains while other commercial

39:49

aspects are happening. Remember when I

39:52

said listen for the brass and

39:54

some things that they're doing. This

39:56

is a classic example of a

39:58

more commercial style which every... brass

40:00

player knows you can switch

40:02

into it in a moment

40:04

the crescendos the forte piano

40:06

letting certain notes really just

40:08

land limitless songs and examples

40:10

from like the 50-60s and

40:13

70s really gives you a

40:15

sense of the breadth of

40:17

Carlos Simon's musical vocabulary he

40:19

draws from these different styles

40:21

and traditions and fuses them

40:23

together in a way that's

40:25

it's coherent and very

40:27

effective and you feel I mean I

40:29

feel light as air like I'm just I

40:32

was just coming out of my seat

40:34

and floating into the sky with back

40:36

to the one back to the only

40:38

one were all the same and that

40:40

repeats all the way to the all

40:43

the way to the end and reading

40:45

more on on Rumi and that context

40:47

and Islamic context looking

40:50

more towards I guess the idea of

40:52

all belongs to Allah and eventually returns

40:54

to him. There's also a phrase that,

40:56

I mean if you're Islamic, you already

40:59

said it, that they have. And Rumi

41:01

also describes, you know, I died as

41:03

a mineral, I died as a plant,

41:06

an animal, an angel, and then describing,

41:08

you know, like, I become something that

41:10

cannot be described. It's that idea of

41:13

dust to dust, escaping Samara or something.

41:15

It's that in feeling that it seems

41:17

like all cultures and people have in

41:20

some way. So

41:24

one of the things that's so

41:26

powerful about this ending, you know,

41:29

we have this turmoil, especially in

41:31

the second movement, these uncertainties and

41:33

ambiguities, especially in the first movement,

41:35

and everything gets resolved in this

41:37

finale. It's like the four movements

41:40

of a symphony. It's the final

41:42

resolution of the whole crisis of

41:44

the whole question being answered. We

41:46

are all the same, is this,

41:48

the text, but it's also musically

41:51

kind of conveys this sense of

41:53

consolation. a sense of encouragement, there's

41:55

a strength and surrender in

41:57

this feeling of unity. And

42:00

the work is only like 20 minutes

42:03

long. Maybe it's 19 minutes long.

42:05

It's not that long. Yet there is

42:07

so much here. I've listened to

42:09

it more times than I can

42:11

count really at this point. And each

42:13

time it's really just as enjoyable. I

42:16

wish I could go back to that

42:18

first time hearing it, especially the way

42:20

he ends with that back to the

42:23

one as we described. But what

42:25

an incredible work that looks

42:27

at separation in different ways,

42:29

can it? And the really powerful way

42:32

of exploring this universal human theme,

42:34

the poetry certainly declares that in

42:36

a way that's very relatable. And

42:39

Carlos Simon's music really invite us

42:41

in. It's very easy to write

42:43

something like a song cycle entitled

42:46

Songs of Separation that's all about

42:48

grief and pain and loss. And

42:50

that could be really meaningful. And

42:53

this work certainly explores that musically

42:55

and textually in very rich ways.

42:58

But there's a lot of a...

43:00

dimensions to it which make this

43:02

work so compelling, there's a sense

43:05

of healing, there's a sense of

43:07

unity that we experience across cultures

43:10

and across human experiences, this universality

43:12

of loss, but also the ways

43:14

in which we're blessed by those

43:17

losses. We're blessed by the tribulations

43:19

of our existence and the sense

43:22

of possibility that grows out of

43:24

that is really portrayed musically in

43:26

a very powerful way. And we're

43:29

going to put on the show notes

43:31

page, a link to listen to this

43:33

work, and also any other information regarding

43:35

Carlos Simon and what he has going

43:38

on here in Washington at the Kennedy

43:40

Center. But now, Evan, we get to

43:42

a listener question, and this is an

43:44

interesting one. Cynthia wrote in after listening

43:46

to our episode on, you know, what

43:49

do conductors do, which was number nine

43:51

with Michelle Merrill. And Cynthia was asking,

43:53

you know, how can when I watch

43:55

an orchestra, it seems like the conductor

43:58

is is ahead of the music. you

44:00

know, they give the beat, and then

44:02

the orchestra plays. This is kind of

44:04

annoying. Why aren't they all exact? And

44:06

this is a great question, and I've

44:09

just not really thought about this, but

44:11

because it seems obvious for musicians. So

44:13

if you think like, you know, if

44:15

we're going to give each other a

44:18

high five, we know we're going to meet

44:20

right in the middle, and we're going to,

44:22

you know, have that clap. So we both

44:24

have to meet there in the middle. For

44:27

musicians, if we're trying to meet the conductor

44:29

on the downbeat, well we've now lost

44:31

any information that they were trying to

44:33

give before or for the downbeat. So

44:35

I'll also put a video on the

44:38

show notes page that really describes this

44:40

or really shows us I think because

44:42

if the conductor gives a very

44:44

strong, you know, downbeat, you know to

44:46

play that very, very strong. Or if

44:49

they are suddenly softer with the downbeat

44:51

or any other instruction, you don't get

44:53

any of that. And that's why when

44:55

you see a conductor, you know, give

44:57

a huge downbeat. There can sometimes be

45:00

like a more than half a second and

45:02

each orchestra is different and that's the

45:04

freelancing thing. You've got to get it

45:06

immediately. You have to latch on to

45:09

whatever orchestra, however their style is. But...

45:11

Yeah, you're missing the information if you

45:13

don't. And different conductors have their own

45:16

individual styles as well, but the short

45:18

answer I think to this really good

45:20

question is if you're going to have

45:22

a cue, it needs to happen before

45:25

the event, not during the event, and

45:27

maybe an overly simplistic, but I hope

45:29

helpful way of thinking about this is

45:32

if you're driving and you want

45:34

to change lanes, you don't want

45:36

to turn your turn signal as

45:38

you're moving. Well, in Maryland you

45:40

do. In Washington, you have plenty

45:42

of that, or maybe a turn

45:44

signal is just giving information to

45:46

the enemy. But if you want

45:48

to be a responsible person, you

45:50

want to signal before you move.

45:52

And what the conductor is doing

45:54

is signaling to the orchestra before

45:56

the event so that the cue

45:58

is preparing the orchestra to. to

46:00

move in unity to respond to

46:02

that cue? Well, I think maybe

46:04

you should have answered the question

46:06

first. That's a much simpler explanation

46:08

other than, well, you just have

46:11

to. You have to do it.

46:13

So I hope that was a

46:15

little helpful Cynthia on why conductors

46:17

are a little ahead of the

46:19

music beautifully described by Evan there.

46:22

And of course, if you have

46:24

any other questions, you can always

46:26

send us an email at Classical

46:28

Breakdown at WETA. Thanks

46:31

for listening to Classical Breakdown, Your

46:33

Guide to Classical Music. For more

46:36

information on this episode, visit the

46:38

Show Notes page at Classical Breakdown.org.

46:40

You can send me comments and

46:43

episode ideas to Classical Breakdown at

46:45

WETA.org, and if you enjoy this

46:47

episode, leave a review in your

46:50

podcast app. I'm John Panther. Thanks

46:52

for listening to Classical Breakdown from

46:54

WETA Classical.