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ixl.com at ixl.com slash NPR. Just

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a heads up, this episode

0:22

contains discussions of suicide. What's

0:24

good? You're listening to Code Switch.

0:27

I'm Jean Tembe. Dominic Foxworth is

0:29

my name. I'm a former NFL

0:31

player and former president of the

0:33

Union. If Dominic's voice sounds familiar

0:35

to you, that's because you've probably

0:37

heard it on the show before.

0:39

He was in our episode about

0:41

the NFL's Rooney rule, and he

0:43

was talking about the slave auctionee

0:45

vibe of going through the NFL

0:47

draft combine. You might have heard

0:50

more last week's episode when he

0:52

was talking about the very real

0:54

physical consequences of playing football. for players

0:56

even before they get to the pros.

0:58

So after his tenure in the NFL

1:00

as a player, Dominic became the head

1:02

of the NFL Players Association. That's the

1:04

union for NFL players. And in that

1:07

role, he advocated for players' rights. Like

1:09

so many people in the United States.

1:11

Dominic wanted to be in the NFL

1:13

since he was a child. He was

1:15

a college star at the University of

1:17

Maryland, and he had a really, really

1:19

productive career as a pro. He retired

1:21

around 30 years old, which he had

1:23

a pretty long run in the

1:26

league, given that the average NFL

1:28

career is just a little over

1:30

three years, at least according to

1:32

the NFL Players Union. When

1:34

fans think about football players,

1:37

they think about, I don't know,

1:39

Tom Brady, Joe Montano, or even

1:41

somebody like Jerry Rice, like you

1:44

think about these guys who, um...

1:46

Had these great long successful

1:48

careers and you can see

1:50

them on TV Or you

1:52

can see them walk around

1:54

they see and they seem

1:57

fine That ain't the majority

1:59

You know? Dominic said

2:01

most players have to retire early

2:04

because football is just so hard

2:06

on the body. He said he

2:08

sometimes jokes to his wife that,

2:11

you know, his forgetfulness might be

2:13

from too many hits to the

2:15

head during his playing days. And

2:18

he also said that she doesn't

2:20

really love those jokes. Because... What

2:22

we know now is that NFL

2:25

players are far more likely to

2:27

suffer from CTE, that's chronic traumatic

2:30

encephalopathy, and these other degenerative brain

2:32

diseases like ALS and dementia. These

2:34

diseases are linked to a whole

2:37

host of symptoms, memory loss, impulsive

2:39

behavior, aggression, depression, suicidal ideation, a

2:41

loss of motor control. CTE is

2:44

likely caused by repeated blows to

2:46

the head. And a lot of

2:49

the symptoms don't start showing up.

2:51

until long after these players have

2:53

hung up their cleats. When he

2:56

was the head of the NFL

2:58

Players Union, Dominic was on the

3:00

front lines of this fight to

3:03

figure out just what the league

3:05

owed to the people who used

3:08

to play the sport. I mean,

3:10

he sat in some really contentious

3:12

meetings across the table from the

3:15

league's lawyers. I mean, it was

3:17

incredibly difficult because what was uncovered

3:19

at that town was not just

3:22

the connection between CTE and like

3:24

dementia. and Alzheimer's and there was

3:27

also the idea that they knew

3:29

way before we did and had

3:31

actively hit it. And it's not

3:34

only just the head injury stuff,

3:36

it's also like the quality of

3:38

life for everybody from all the

3:41

other things that happened to your

3:43

body. And so it's... It's

3:46

infuriating, it can be infuriating,

3:48

to be in a negotiation

3:50

with them where we're arguing

3:52

for longer health care or

3:55

better consideration for... long-term injuries

3:57

and either they push back

3:59

against it or they try

4:01

to take it out of

4:04

the salary cap which is

4:06

like the money that's allotted

4:08

for us to to negotiate

4:10

for our salaries which is

4:12

like so un-American that's a

4:15

whole other ball of waxed

4:17

existence of the salary cap

4:19

in the draft and all

4:21

those constraints that exist but

4:24

it's hard to have those

4:26

conversations and their actions like

4:28

so clearly in many cases

4:30

show that they don't respect

4:33

us as anything more than

4:35

pieces to a machine that

4:37

can be subbed in and

4:39

subbed out and in the

4:41

background we're learning more and

4:44

more about how they try

4:46

to hide information from us

4:48

and you mentioned What

4:50

happens to players so many players

4:53

after they retire and so young

4:55

but I think it's important to

4:57

point out that it's Not just

4:59

that Some of their brains deteriorate

5:02

and some of them have to

5:04

get knee and hip replacements and

5:06

all that stuff. It's also that

5:09

their brains deteriorate to the point

5:11

where? Shooting themselves in the chest

5:13

is the best option that they

5:15

see like there is a lot

5:18

of suicides and and the shooting

5:20

themselves in the chest part is

5:22

important because they want to leave

5:25

their brains unaffected in order to

5:27

be studied. Right. Judas A. I

5:29

think famously, like when he killed

5:31

himself, Judas A. I was one

5:34

of the greatest middle line bikers

5:36

in history of the sport. When

5:38

he killed himself, he shot himself

5:41

in the chest and if I'm

5:43

not mistaken, he left a note

5:45

right saying, please study my brain.

5:47

Like, it was really, you could

5:50

see sort of both, like, the

5:52

sort of force, like, he knew

5:54

something was wrong, and he couldn't

5:57

figure out what it was, and

5:59

also he had, like, it was

6:01

the... whole situation is very just

6:03

heartbreaking. It's unimaginable darkness for me

6:06

and it's something that I think

6:08

none of us really think about

6:10

well I can't speak for everyone

6:13

but most of us probably don't

6:15

think about what it would take

6:17

for you how you might have

6:19

to feel for you to think

6:22

that that's the best alternative particularly

6:24

someone who's lived a life that

6:26

a lot of people would want

6:29

to have and so like having

6:31

that And there's no reason I

6:33

think for most people to think

6:35

about that, but having someone go

6:38

through that, like force me to

6:40

like wonder how bad it must

6:42

feel, and then go into negotiations

6:44

with people who are like, nah,

6:47

you don't deserve that. You don't

6:49

deserve, in so many words, you

6:51

don't deserve longer term health care.

6:54

And yeah, so it's a tough

6:56

spot to be in. That really

6:58

would that jump out to me

7:00

just as someone who's never been

7:03

in like I can only imagine

7:05

what it's like to be in

7:07

those rooms One is that when

7:10

you were playing I think every

7:12

owner in the league Was white.

7:14

I think Shai Khan came later

7:16

He's Pakistani American, but all the

7:19

32 owners of NFL teams. They're

7:21

all white and if you own

7:23

an another team that means like

7:26

on the low end of wealth

7:28

you're worth, you know a couple

7:30

hundred million dollars, but like if

7:32

you own a team, if you're

7:35

the majority on the team, your

7:37

wealth is probably, you're probably a

7:39

billionaire. And so you're a young

7:42

white dude sitting across the table

7:44

from this sort of cadre of

7:46

white billionaires and their representatives, and

7:48

you're arguing with them about these

7:51

things that affect your livelihood and

7:53

your health down the road. But

7:55

also, the other part of football

7:58

that is like so jarring, my

8:00

wife talks about this all the

8:02

time. It's just how martial it

8:04

is, like at every, like how

8:07

much sort of the language and

8:09

sort of grammar. of military stuff

8:11

is like baked into the way

8:13

football is presented to us. And

8:16

it seems like, you know, I'm

8:18

not going to get too much

8:20

common to say that y'all are

8:23

cannon fodder, but like it does

8:25

feel like there is this a

8:27

culture of not speaking up that

8:29

is also exacerbated by the fact

8:32

that your contracts aren't guaranteed, right?

8:34

And so it feels like there's

8:36

a lot of like good soldier.

8:39

Sort of mythologizing right next man

8:41

up all that stuff. I'm just

8:43

wondering how those two different but

8:45

not unrelated dynamics sort of play

8:48

out when you're when you're sort

8:50

of arguing with these people about

8:52

really important issues football is only

8:55

popular in America which like again

8:57

makes for another like perfect metaphor.

8:59

It's insanely popular here because it

9:01

kind of is America like in

9:04

from the racial dynamics to the

9:06

class dynamics to the cronyism and

9:08

nepotism that like benefits a select

9:11

group like it is America and

9:13

so like it's hard not to

9:15

see those parallels and when you're

9:17

sitting in those rooms and you're

9:20

having conversations with the owners and

9:22

so like the I try my

9:24

best not to like This

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13:51

We've been talking to Dominic Foxworth,

13:53

he was a former NFL player,

13:55

former head of the NFL Players

13:57

Association, a podcaster currently. We've been

13:59

talking to him about playing the

14:01

game he loved and the costs

14:03

that came with that. In his

14:05

role as the head of the

14:07

union, he was often squaring off

14:09

with the league's owners and their

14:12

lawyers about this question of what

14:14

the league owed to its overwhelmingly

14:16

black universe of former players. And

14:18

Dominic said, when you're playing. You

14:20

are constantly being reminded of just

14:22

how dangerous the sport is. I

14:24

played in a game where Kevin

14:26

Everett was paralyzed. I played in

14:28

a game where a player for

14:30

the 49ers... Thomas Harry on I

14:32

think his name was after the

14:34

game he died in the locker

14:36

room. Oh my god. Yeah it

14:38

was a preseason game for the

14:40

Broncos. We all walked off the

14:42

field and ambulance came down to

14:44

the visitor's locker room and I

14:46

didn't pay it any mind but

14:48

I went home by the time

14:50

I got home I learned he

14:52

had died. Like this is the

14:54

game we're playing and I play

14:56

in a game where like I'm

14:58

gonna have to have a knee

15:00

and hip replacement at some point

15:02

and I was a cornerbackack like

15:04

I wasn't like... a linebacker and...

15:06

You were in the trenches, you

15:08

were in the defensive limb and

15:10

did it. Right, and I like,

15:12

I have former colleagues who also

15:14

played cornerback who, one of the

15:16

things that I brought up recently

15:18

is his wife called my wife

15:20

because he had barricaded himself in

15:22

a house with a loaded gun

15:24

because he was having like some...

15:26

What I mean, I'm not I

15:28

can't diagnose it, but like I

15:30

think it's reasonable to assume that

15:32

otherwise healthy young former football player

15:34

is having some Like impact of

15:36

CTE like this is these are

15:38

the risk that we take by

15:40

playing this game and like when

15:42

I was coming up we didn't

15:44

know those were the risk now

15:46

we know they're the risk and

15:48

those risk are there There's no

15:50

cap on that risk, but they

15:52

still say that you can't have

15:54

this much money or you can't,

15:56

we'll put a salary cap on.

15:58

There's only five years of health

16:00

care after you're retired from football.

16:02

And mind you, you have to

16:04

be vested. You have to have

16:06

played three years and three games

16:08

to become a vested player to

16:10

then only get five years of

16:12

health care, which like I'm way

16:14

past that and my knee and

16:16

hip replacement aren't coming for a

16:18

long time. So like that health

16:20

care does. does not help me.

16:22

So like that that's really hard

16:24

for me man and it's like

16:26

I don't know I get emotional

16:28

generally and I get aggressive and

16:30

yelling and I don't know that

16:33

that works but I don't know

16:35

how to subtract the emotion from

16:37

this when you see how crazy

16:39

some of this is. You just

16:41

said you know that there's probably

16:43

a knee replacement in the offing

16:45

probably a hip replacement in your

16:47

future looking back on what you

16:49

know now. Do you feel like

16:51

it was worth it? Absolutely. So

16:53

that's that's the thing. That's the

16:55

hard thing is For me if

16:57

I wouldn't have gotten a second

16:59

contract. No, I would have said

17:01

it would it wasn't worth it

17:03

and I came very close to

17:05

not getting that contract I got

17:07

traded to Atlanta a year after

17:09

Vic went to jail and I

17:11

was at the bottom of the

17:13

depth chart and I thought this

17:15

team was going to be terrible.

17:17

We happen to have a good

17:19

season and I played the best

17:21

year of my life and the

17:23

Ravens and the pay me off

17:25

of that. So that changed everything

17:27

for me. Like I can say

17:29

these things in part because I

17:31

have financial security and like I

17:33

can send my kids to good

17:35

schools. Like I can do all

17:37

the things that people dream of

17:39

doing for their families. Like I

17:41

bought my mom, my mom, my

17:43

mom, and my dad a house.

17:45

Like I do all that buy

17:47

them cars and more vacations. Like

17:49

I do all the cool things

17:51

that that we all imagine or

17:53

we all dream about doing when

17:55

we dream about being an athlete.

17:57

But the question that comes up

17:59

in my mind often is The

18:01

darkness that you have to be

18:03

in in order to shoot yourself.

18:05

I've never felt that. So, obviously,

18:07

not every player gets to that

18:09

point, and obviously I hope I

18:11

never get to that point. But

18:13

I can't imagine that it would

18:15

feel worth it then. We reached

18:17

out to the NFL for comment

18:19

about Dominic's claims that the league

18:21

didn't value its players' health and

18:23

safety. Their spokesperson wrote back, quote,

18:25

we disagree. The NFL and its

18:27

clubs are committed to the health.

18:29

mental wellness and safety of players

18:31

throughout their careers and beyond. The

18:33

spokesperson went on to say, quote,

18:35

we know there is no finish

18:37

line when it comes to the

18:39

health and safety of players and

18:41

are committed to find ways to

18:43

continue to make the game safer,

18:45

end quote. If you were someone

18:47

you know, maybe considering suicide or

18:49

is in crisis, call or text

18:51

988 to reach the suicide in

18:54

crisis lifeline. Next

19:03

week, how the NFL agreed to

19:05

a settlement to pay former players

19:07

with brain disease. But there have

19:09

been hurdles to getting those payouts,

19:11

including the use of tests that

19:14

discriminated against black players. So if

19:16

you were a black player and

19:18

you were a white player and

19:20

you got the exact same score

19:22

on a cognitive test, the white

19:25

player potentially would qualify for a

19:27

payment, the black player would not.

19:29

And the problem was, this was...

19:31

from the perspective of foreign players

19:34

and their lawyers is that they

19:36

didn't know they were agreeing to

19:38

this. All right, that's our show.

19:40

You can follow us on Instagram

19:42

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at plus.mpr.org/code switch. This episode was

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produced by Xavier Lopez and James

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Sneed. It was edited by Dahlia

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Mortata, Courtney Stein, and Jasmine Romero.

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Our engineer was James Willis. And

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we'd be remiss if we did

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the code switch massive, that's Christina

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Kala, Jess Kung, Leah Danella, Marilyn

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Williams, and B.A. Parker. As for

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me, I'm Gene Dunby. B.E.Z. y'all.

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