0:03

Permission to speak. Shadows

0:05

hide you. I am

0:08

this one. Our paths

0:10

converge. So good to

0:13

see you. Hail to

0:15

you! Never be some.

0:18

Fear French out. I

0:20

hear you. It has

0:23

only begun. Fido! Fred!

0:34

Welcome to episode 477 of Coin of Coin our

0:36

a Hearthstone podcast dedicated to making competitors

0:38

out of the game more accessible to

0:40

you. It is Friday, of the game more accessible to

0:42

you. It the evening. Coming to

0:44

you from Noburgun, Ohio, it's me,

0:47

to you from Nobergan, Ohio. It's me, Massachusetts,

0:49

we have Wicked Massachusetts. We have

0:51

Wicked Good. Hi. From Teldresville, we

0:53

have Magesa. we have Magaisa. Hello.

0:55

And And from all around the world, we

0:58

have you, dear listeners. this week's episode is

1:00

brought to you by our producers, Number

1:02

Theory, Crash, Beef Squatch, David P, Wallo, Jeremy Jeremy

1:04

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1:06

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of choice, as it always helps other people find

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on your podcast feed of choice,

1:34

as it think I have

1:36

found find the show. So, life in

1:38

At some point I my most played

1:40

game on Steam. point, become my

1:42

most played game on steam. it

1:45

is called, called, well, game

1:47

in quotations. It's It's called

1:49

Dungeon alchemists. I was was

1:51

hoping you were going to say

1:53

going to say Horizon but okay, west, but okay,

1:56

That's that'll be that's on

1:58

that's on the PS5 Look, and

2:00

we're talking something to compete with,

2:03

well I guess, I guess my

2:05

500 hours of Baldwin's K3 is

2:07

on the PS5, so it's not

2:10

that high on steam. Regardless, there's

2:12

a high bar when it comes

2:14

to, you know, most played thing

2:16

on steam. And yeah, I think

2:19

time is just on this thing

2:21

side because I fully expect to

2:23

be playing D&D for, you know,

2:26

the rest of my life. And

2:28

that means I'm going to be

2:30

spending a lot of time making

2:33

maps as a game. And there

2:35

was supposed to be something like

2:37

this called Project Sigil that would

2:40

be in the D&D Beyond ecosystem.

2:42

Sorry if I'm speaking another language

2:44

folks who don't play D&D. D&D

2:46

Beyond is like the main character

2:49

sheet and they're trying to expand

2:51

it to other things. Wizards of

2:53

the Coast slash Hasbro is. It's

2:56

like the main tool for

2:58

D&D. And I was hoping

3:00

to get in the beta for

3:03

this thing called Project Sigel,

3:05

which is going to be

3:07

there, like 3D Map Maker, and

3:09

VTT thing. And I haven't gotten

3:12

it, and I'm just like

3:14

getting impatient over here. So

3:16

I finally got Dungenolumist. You can

3:18

export it to things that can

3:20

take advantage of the 3D

3:22

elements, but you can also

3:24

export as. just a J.P.G.

3:26

and use that image in the

3:29

simpler VTT that I use.

3:31

So it is definitely way

3:33

more time that is necessary. My

3:35

groups would get by just fine

3:38

with the simpler maps. But

3:40

it's really fun for me.

3:42

I always enjoyed like CAD, computer

3:44

design class, and like in my

3:46

architecture class using the three

3:48

modeling tools for that. So

3:50

this is just like really fun

3:53

for me doing all the fiddly

3:55

bit. not even like what's

3:57

funny is it has all

3:59

these AI things that if

4:01

I were making like totally original

4:04

content dungeons or things I'm

4:06

sure would be very useful

4:08

because it would just you know

4:10

auto populate with objects that make

4:13

sense for the theme of

4:15

whatever it is a mansion

4:17

a dungeon a tavern. But instead

4:19

I just turn all of that

4:21

off because I'm trying to

4:23

make like my version of

4:25

the map that's in the

4:27

published adventure that I'm running. And

4:30

that means I need to

4:32

get like the dimensions right

4:34

and everything and put the doors

4:36

in the right place. I can't

4:39

be having the AI place

4:41

my doors for me. So

4:43

yeah, it is very fiddly, but

4:45

I'm getting a handle on it

4:47

and I got it on

4:49

the 18th and in like.

4:51

two and a half days. Some

4:54

of this might be because I

4:56

like left it on when

4:58

I wasn't using it. I

5:00

don't know to what extent

5:02

steam logs that are not. Oh

5:05

yeah, it definitely, it definitely

5:07

true. This is why I

5:09

have like five bizilian hours in

5:11

Vampire Survivors. Not that I haven't

5:14

played that game a lot,

5:16

but I also have like

5:18

paused it and left it open.

5:20

So you know, it's registered 20

5:22

hours of like active use

5:24

there. Well, there's probably been

5:26

10. Yeah, so I'm excited

5:28

to hopefully wow my players on

5:31

Sunday. And besides that, I've

5:33

been playing Mage in a

5:35

heartstone. I feel like I always

5:37

go back to Mage. There's like

5:40

a bounce patch and I'm

5:42

like, oh, is Mage playable?

5:44

Yes, we're probably not, but you

5:46

know, we try. I've

5:48

been saying that supernova mage. I

5:50

also saw a mage that played

5:53

Blizzard twice, then bobbed the bartender

5:55

freeze, and then blizzard again with

5:57

the doomsayer, and that was not

5:59

particularly fun for me. Maybe it

6:01

was for them. But yeah, there

6:03

was a supernova, but the supernova's

6:05

kind of your like top end

6:07

burn, and there's a lot of

6:10

like small spells, and they totally

6:12

kept clearing my board with chalice

6:14

in the early game. If you

6:16

stick a marooned arch mage, which

6:18

is the one that means that

6:20

from then on, but not from

6:22

then on, but like while it's

6:24

out, the first spell of a

6:26

turn cost to us, if you

6:29

stick that, that's really good. When

6:31

the turn you play it, you

6:33

can go like. Rude Dark Mage

6:35

plus Gliff or something. So it's

6:37

very nice in that respect. Assuming

6:39

you didn't coin it out, don't

6:41

coin it out. Yeah, don't do

6:43

that. But coin out the Gorgens

6:46

Ormond. Yeah. I'm surprised you weren't

6:48

playing John Bray's Archimay. Was Arquing

6:50

Pilot Mage? Haven't gotten that far

6:52

yet. Yeah, I did play against

6:54

that. I think I was playing

6:56

liberal palan at the time. And

6:58

they got them at the time

7:00

at the time. So yeah. Or

7:03

I just hit them in the

7:05

face and the game ended. It

7:07

was one or the other. I

7:09

don't remember which, but it didn't,

7:11

it didn't end well for them.

7:13

But I appreciated the effort. Yeah.

7:15

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess

7:17

I mean, like I said, I've

7:20

been, I played a little bit

7:22

of Libram Paladin after the patch.

7:24

Before the patch, I was playing

7:26

everything and nothing was working. And

7:28

I was very glad for the

7:30

patch because like I was just

7:32

tired of playing against those stacks,

7:34

but. Liberty Paladin was working reasonably

7:36

well. It just was, you know,

7:39

doing enough damage to get me

7:41

over the over the line and

7:43

then Megasa convinced me to play

7:45

Hunter because, you know, my reputation

7:47

be damned. We have content to

7:49

generate. So that's right. I did

7:51

in my second game run into

7:53

a Starship Roke who generated a

7:56

cavalcade of. B. S. And I

7:58

did manage to kill the through

8:00

all of it, which is pretty

8:02

much all I need to get

8:04

me to keep playing a deck

8:06

is if I can take a

8:08

rogue and just stomp them into

8:10

the ground after they, you know,

8:13

bounce things a million times, like

8:15

I'm kind of okay with that.

8:17

So I've been playing that I

8:19

have like a, I mean, this

8:21

is the deck we're going to

8:23

talk about in more detail, you

8:25

know, in deck explanations, but I

8:27

had not a huge number of

8:29

games on it, but I've got

8:32

like a 72% one rate. with

8:34

the deck, which is, I mean,

8:36

anything that I'm, yeah, I mean,

8:38

anything I'm getting that kind of

8:40

win rate with. And one of

8:42

those games that I lost because

8:44

I was playing against a warlock

8:46

and I had meant to kill

8:49

command, whatever, I got in a

8:51

kill command off of something. I

8:53

don't even know. Everything just makes

8:55

other things. I got a kill

8:57

command off of something. And I

8:59

went to Kill Command their Minion

9:01

and I Kill Command and my

9:03

Minion and I just conceded out

9:06

of shame. So that was one

9:08

of the losses. Because my mouse

9:10

just sometimes like it just loses

9:12

the, it loses holding it. I

9:14

really should just go back to

9:16

like clicking instead of dragging. But

9:18

I was dragging and then like

9:20

my finger slipped like the tiniest

9:22

bit and it was just like,

9:25

okay, your, your minion's dead now.

9:27

That'll teach you to drag. So

9:29

yeah. That's not me, I suppose,

9:31

and not, you know, my mouse,

9:33

but whatever. But I also, I

9:35

made the mistake of stopping into

9:37

the other game's channel, and they

9:39

were talking about this game called

9:42

Bollywood air, that I had tangentially

9:44

heard of, and Hat was speaking

9:46

highly of it, so that didn't

9:48

take too much convincing. And yeah,

9:50

I lost some dungeon alchemists level

9:52

time to Bollywood. So imagine Pegel

9:54

is a rogue-like and accept that

9:56

instead of like there being a

9:59

stage of the beginning. you're building

10:01

the stage turn by turn and

10:03

then just trying to get like

10:05

create a Rube Goldberg machine where

10:07

you're just keeping the ball on

10:09

the stage and bouncing it against

10:11

as many things as possible to

10:13

generate as much well it's it's

10:16

money but it's points whatever as

10:18

possible and like they're different different

10:20

balls that you can generate like

10:22

there's a fireball and a waterball

10:24

and the waterballs will like water

10:26

the plants and make them bigger

10:28

and the fireballs will like light

10:30

off a firecracker which will which

10:32

will go up in the air

10:35

and then drop down other fireballs

10:37

that will then light candles to

10:39

increase multipliers if it's it's it's

10:41

very silly I had plans for

10:43

my break and you're ruining it

10:45

I'm sorry this conversation and other

10:47

games general somehow you're welcome and

10:49

I'm sorry Yeah, so if that

10:52

it all sounds interesting to you,

10:54

the steam sale is going, you

10:56

can just go by that and

10:58

then you will not have to

11:00

worry about what you're doing over

11:02

your winter break, because that's going

11:04

to be it. But it's also,

11:06

it's like kind of game that

11:09

you can just kind of have

11:11

on in the background, like while

11:13

you're doing other things, because it's

11:15

like, it's very turn-based, so you

11:17

can just kind of have it

11:19

there and, you know, take a

11:21

turn and do it, and do

11:23

something else. I'm not saying that's

11:25

a good strategy to climb, but

11:28

it's a thing that you could

11:30

do. And I'm not advised, that's

11:32

not, that's not, you know, but

11:34

yeah, if you really wanted to

11:36

maximize your gaming time, that's something

11:38

you could do. So anyway, what

11:40

about you, Maga, so what have

11:42

you been up to this week?

11:45

Well, I've played, I've been kind

11:47

of bouncing around in terms of...

11:49

decks. I played some of an

11:51

attack demon hunter that World Age

11:53

modified and called Sauna DH because

11:55

it has the Sauna regulars in

11:57

it and it's a it's a

11:59

Tacked H, except you've got less

12:02

just like pure attack and more pain

12:04

stuff. So you've got the attack and more pain

12:06

stuff like You've got the and which really

12:08

does help you with like early board

12:10

control and then that helps you get

12:12

down also it's just a gun if just

12:14

a machine to get happen to

12:16

get that with got ball hug, because it does

12:19

damage and heals it does damage and heals you up

12:21

a little bit and it's like your only healing healing.

12:23

But of course, you of course you

12:25

also still have like the sock puppet

12:27

litter sphere, the battle fiend, stuff like that like

12:29

that that. I have I have linked the

12:31

version of it that I was playing in

12:33

the show notes, but I'm sure by the

12:35

time you hear this, there will be more

12:38

refinements. the time I mean, World 8 doesn't

12:40

leave a deck alone for more than a day.

12:42

So I'm sure that it will have changed

12:44

six times by the time you've heard this. doesn't and

12:46

there a a few other

12:48

people for more there. So I'm

12:50

sure that, you refining

12:53

as well, have changed six

12:55

times by Paul M.

12:57

you've heard this. Lots going

12:59

on there, but then I also

13:02

played some Grunter Hunter, which

13:04

apparently is either either about

13:06

to be or was this week's walk

13:08

to work work from Lister which

13:10

is another is another if you're not familiar. podcast

13:13

if you are Hunter is

13:15

basically you just hand

13:17

buff your is basically, you in your

13:19

hand. buff And then you have...

13:21

Grint in your hand, and then

13:23

and you. and you. attack into

13:25

ideally ideally, multiple things. they they don't

13:28

have something, you play you play food fight

13:30

so something do have then it's like and

13:32

damage and you kill trampled damage and you

13:34

kill them. you draw you draw the

13:36

wrong time. and it turns off your

13:38

It turns off. your if you only have

13:40

thing that in hand If you only

13:42

have that in your hand, there's a card that

13:44

gives it three and makes it three cheaper. It's called

13:46

reserved it's called I didn't I didn't

13:48

remember it existed either. either. You haven't been this

13:51

deck, you probably don't. don't. if you

13:53

draw draw gilly, then you have to you have

13:55

to you him. before you can play Reserved It's

13:57

it's very annoying. Or you can you it, play it but it

13:59

doesn't make it cheaper. cheaper. And then I was

14:01

watching the world's, we'll talk a lot

14:03

more about World's Don't Worry. And as

14:05

you may be aware, a few of

14:08

the Chinese players brought this fizzle control

14:10

discover hunter, and I was like, I

14:12

have to try this. I don't know

14:14

why I had to try this, because

14:16

it's not my style of deck usually.

14:19

But it's a discover hunter that goes

14:21

slow and then just can infinitely recycle.

14:23

You can get two fizzles because... you

14:25

have Rangari Scout out when you play

14:28

ETC, and then ETC is a discover,

14:30

so then you pick fizzle, which is

14:32

in the ETC, so the Rangari Scout

14:34

gives you two fizzles, so now when

14:37

you play one you have a fizzle

14:39

in your snapshot. So as long as

14:41

you're careful about this, you will always

14:43

have another fizzle. It is easy to

14:45

mess up this chain until you get

14:48

used to it. But you can always

14:50

have that, and then you have in

14:52

it like... grifda and or ceaseless expanse

14:54

and or incendius or like whatever. And

14:57

then you just go forever and you

14:59

win the game that way. It was

15:01

very dramatic in the finals of the

15:03

world, but I don't necessarily recommend it.

15:06

I recommend doing what we're going to

15:08

talk about explanations, which is hitting people

15:10

in the face with mantle shapers. But

15:12

I had the misfortune in a sense

15:14

of doing really well in my first

15:17

10 games with the Fizzle Discover Hunter

15:19

Hunter, because then that gave me the

15:21

false impression that this was like. something

15:23

fun that I should keep playing. Ultimately,

15:26

it didn't work out nearly as well.

15:28

And then in terms of life, I've

15:30

been doing just sort of an early

15:32

spring cleaning. I've been saying for like

15:35

the entire fall semester, oh, I want

15:37

to clean up the podcast room, which

15:39

is what I'm calling my office, because

15:41

that's the main thing I'm doing in

15:43

here. I've got clothes in there from

15:46

like high school that should really not

15:48

be there. So my mom came over

15:50

and helped me and I got my

15:52

husband a little bit in the spirit

15:55

this morning. He has this Microsoft Surface

15:57

that is a million years old. It's

15:59

like, it's a small. computer and he

16:01

like this morning he was trying to

16:03

load like Google's calculator and it wouldn't

16:06

load for the longest time. Wow. But

16:08

I've complained about this thing before and

16:10

he's like well I like it because

16:12

it's little and it fits on the

16:15

table and they don't sell another little

16:17

one like this anymore. Stop complaining about

16:19

it. So I'm just sitting there feeling

16:21

like when you have a friend with

16:24

a really irritating partner and you can't

16:26

say anything about it. Because it would

16:28

just be bad. So you just have

16:30

to sit there. But then finally today

16:32

he said, I should really replace this.

16:35

I was like, yes, am I allowed

16:37

to say something now? How every time

16:39

I like couldn't stand behind him and

16:41

watch because then it would be even

16:44

more annoying. I had to sit on

16:46

the other side and pretend that like

16:48

there were things happening. It wasn't. So

16:50

that might finally be happy. He has

16:53

like a real laptop too, but he

16:55

likes having a surface as just something

16:57

that's a lot more portable than his

16:59

big MacBook. So. Well, maybe you can

17:01

get him an iPod to replace his

17:04

zoo and also while you're at it.

17:06

But, you know, but you're not listening

17:08

to us on a zoo and you're

17:10

listening to to us on whatever you're

17:13

listening to us on because you want

17:15

to hear about the news so we

17:17

should get into that. And

17:20

we do have some news because

17:22

we got a balance patch on

17:24

Tuesday. 31.2.2 was released on December

17:26

17th. If you're listening to us,

17:28

you're probably familiar with it. But,

17:30

you know, normally we get balance

17:32

patches on Thursday. They probably did

17:34

this on Tuesday because they wanted

17:36

to make sure they have plenty

17:38

of time before they got out

17:40

for the holiday break. I cannot

17:42

blame them. This is the our

17:44

last round of changes before the

17:46

holiday holiday break. So we're aiming

17:49

to keep this patch smaller and

17:51

lower risk. The miniset is also

17:53

coming in the not too distant

17:55

future and we expect to do

17:57

a good job of shaking things.

17:59

up in its own right. Our

18:01

goal with this patch was to

18:03

hit the biggest outliers per usual,

18:05

considering both play experience and balance.

18:07

And they, so this was a

18:09

much more targeted balance patch than,

18:11

well, certainly than the last one,

18:13

but then a number of the

18:15

ones that we've gotten recently, but

18:17

it did hit some pretty heavy

18:19

hitters. And one who had been

18:21

dodging nerves like Neo and the

18:23

Matrix has been Sony water dancer.

18:25

who has finally gotten hit. And

18:27

so she is going for, after

18:29

you play a one cost car,

18:31

get a copy of it that

18:33

costs zero to, after you play

18:35

a one cost million, get a

18:37

copy of it that costs zero.

18:39

The after you play a one

18:41

cost million, get a copy of

18:43

it that costs zero. The deaf

18:45

comment here is we've seen this

18:47

happen many times before, a vocal

18:49

point in rogue for a while,

18:51

and this recent play patterns of

18:53

lead more into frustrating than fun.

18:55

This change maintains the spirit of

18:58

the card while removing a lot

19:00

of its more potent combo potential.

19:02

So you're not going to get

19:04

destroyed by, it's not going to

19:06

be able to breakdance anymore, which

19:08

is nice. It's not getting an

19:10

extra copy of breakdance. It's not

19:12

going to get any of the

19:14

grista spells anymore, which were kind

19:16

of the big things that you

19:18

were looking for in the cycle

19:20

rogue, aside from the mini pirate.

19:22

The Mini Pirate was one that

19:24

you were obviously hitting off of

19:26

Sonia, but being able to get

19:28

that with the breakdances and with

19:30

the grift expels and anything else

19:32

that were spells that were costing

19:34

one was really the focal point

19:36

of that text. So that's not

19:38

going to do nearly as much

19:40

anymore in that regard. And I

19:42

think that is kind of a

19:44

great way to change it where

19:46

it is still a good legendary

19:48

worth including a powerful effect. If

19:50

you are doing the Starship thing

19:52

and you have Starships reduced to

19:54

one cost, you can still like

19:56

play it to get two copies.

19:58

You can still do the incendious

20:00

thing, right, where you incendious step

20:02

it and then get it reduced

20:04

from four to one and play

20:07

double, right? There's a whole bunch

20:09

of cool things you can still

20:11

do. You can still get two

20:13

copies of grifta, but the more

20:15

sort of combo-y endless stuff, whether

20:17

it is, you know, huge amounts

20:19

of value from breakdancing, a thing,

20:21

and Zonia, and then doing it

20:23

all again the next turn. Now

20:25

you have to pick. Are you

20:27

breakdancing the Sonia or you know

20:29

some other minion? And also yeah

20:31

that you're not going to be

20:33

able to just go for six

20:35

damage trinkets or a thing that

20:37

could always potentially come up with

20:39

pressure points out right reducing these

20:41

two cost spells that deal damage

20:43

is like hasn't ended up being

20:45

a like tier one playable deck.

20:47

But it's one of those things

20:49

where it's like, if it is,

20:51

it is a turbo cycle and

20:53

they can kill you from hand

20:55

deck. Or any spell that costs

20:57

three, they could prep down the

20:59

one, right? So it's like, like,

21:01

it's not that much of a

21:03

challenge for rogue to be able

21:05

to get things to cost one

21:07

mana. It's just a matter of

21:09

like, if you're discounting them, it's

21:11

a lot harder to do that

21:14

with minions than with spells. Yeah,

21:16

I think. This is less about

21:18

cycle wrote as per se, that's

21:20

just kind of where it was

21:22

being used a lot now than

21:24

the fact that any time that

21:26

they nerfed a deck that Sonia

21:28

was in, we just immediately found

21:30

a new Sony deck. So this

21:32

does preserve some use cases of

21:34

her while also meaning that you're

21:36

unlikely to get the like real

21:38

turbo combo. And I feel for

21:40

people who enjoy the real turbo

21:42

combo, it's definitely impressive to watch.

21:44

And there are some games in

21:46

the Masters tour though. you know

21:48

worlds that were impressive to watch

21:50

there but also like as someone

21:52

who was always on the other

21:54

side of it anytime Sonia came

21:56

down I like couldn't watch it

21:58

was just like somehow irritating and

22:00

and boring at the same time. I just had to like

22:02

to into a new tap a new tab and then of listen

22:04

to it and then it and whether I was

22:06

dead or not or how bad the board was.

22:08

board was. Whereas if Whereas if you're doing it for just

22:10

like a few like a a turn. and a

22:13

and you and you're more you you're

22:15

duplicating. what you're duplicating. playing so

22:17

many cards. it's like you have to

22:19

you you have to, you certainly couldn't do it

22:21

on my husband's surface. I'll tell you that you

22:23

have to have a computer for that. have a good computer for

22:25

that. And this also prevents the whole

22:27

thing with like thing with into deadly poison,

22:29

right? Like that's not a thing

22:31

anymore that's not a thing anymore either, wasn't the target

22:33

but that has been abused by that

22:35

has in the past and that kind

22:37

of goes away too. So and that Yeah,

22:39

if you're getting more away too. So getting more you're getting

22:41

have to get them down to exactly one.

22:44

That's not the easiest thing to do in the

22:46

world. to get them There are powerful things that

22:48

you can do, but they're not. thing to do in

22:50

the those are not the things that are

22:52

killing you immediately. that you can do. Right, like the grifted

22:54

thing was killing you immediately,

22:56

the... The, the, the, the deadly the,

22:59

the deadly you were killing

23:01

you immediately. The, the breakdances weren't killing

23:03

you weren't killing you immediately, but they were

23:05

generally leading you dying on the next

23:07

turn. the next turn. So, yeah, it's, this is all,

23:09

I is all, I think this is a good change.

23:11

mean, Sonya is just like. it's a

23:14

zero-sum fun card. It is fun card. It

23:16

is fun for exactly one person in

23:18

the game, and it's only the person who's

23:20

playing it it. And especially because

23:22

there's generally not a whole lot of counter play you can

23:24

do because they always of it back to their hand. you can

23:26

do you're running like dirty rats or whatever, there's

23:28

not really a whole lot you can do about it once

23:30

they start doing running so. rats This is

23:32

a good change. I haven't seen very many. lot

23:34

you can do about those types

23:37

of start doing it since they made

23:39

that change, which has been good. I did

23:41

see some seen very many of those first day and

23:43

then since since they made that change, which has

23:45

been good. I did see some spell it's

23:47

not a balance patch if

23:49

we don't touch day and then not since. So

23:51

this is Pylon module is going from your which

23:53

is going from your other

23:55

minions plus plus your other minions have

23:57

plus one attack. plus one attack.

23:59

comment is congratulations, is the most nerfed

24:02

card in history. in history. To To be

24:04

fair, it's also a bunch of cards in one, but to be real,

24:06

we might need to we might need it again at some point. at some point.

24:08

This change should still still a module remain a remain

24:10

a relevant piece for but decks to

24:12

it easier to get back into a

24:14

game against Ziliak sport. As a person who plays agro

24:16

decks, I a person who plays in favor of this change,

24:18

because it is in favor of this change

24:20

the list that we're going to it is still for

24:22

it's still in the list or we're talk

24:25

about for Mantle, or Discover, or Discover, or Discover,

24:27

but, but, but It's like an mirror

24:29

if someone someone played zileaks early the

24:31

other person was just out out

24:33

because you just couldn't deal with that

24:35

house. deal you got value health. the line,

24:37

right? got value had this board tension

24:39

line, right? Yeah. You had this board tension then

24:42

they said actually, I play a few play

24:44

a few things and then value

24:46

trade off all trade off all your

24:48

stuff you unless you have some

24:50

kind of know, ridiculous way to

24:52

swing the board. the It's

24:54

just over. over. Yeah, it kind of

24:56

And it kind of requires ridiculous ways to

24:58

swing the board or, you know, or even if

25:00

you're relying on on it adds an extra thing

25:02

to the thing to so. points and so. Yeah, and, you

25:05

know, Hunter with the discovers now with the two of

25:07

them, now can get two of them. when

25:09

I've been seen that happen when I've been

25:11

playing the Hunter like very regularly bird watching

25:13

with the Rangari Scout you'll get two You'll

25:15

get those are both if those are both

25:17

buffing health instead of... of, Instead of

25:19

just just that's even just even harder to

25:22

get rid of, so. harder to get rid of,

25:24

at at least preserving the ability to

25:26

clear off those boards. Cause that

25:28

was always the scariest thing about not so

25:30

not so much that the attack

25:32

was there. that was, that was obviously. that

25:34

hurt but then the fact that But then the fact

25:36

that that was gonna hit you again the following turn, because

25:38

whatever clear you had wasn't gonna get rid of them, like

25:40

that was the problem with that. like that was

25:42

the hard, so. with that yeah that card so

25:44

it'll be interesting to see what they see they what they

25:47

nerf in the next balance patch, but this one was

25:49

a good patch but this one was a good change good change.

25:51

Sidgula Skydiving skydiving is

25:53

going from three pirates charge to

25:55

two to two pirates with

25:57

charged. Dev comments is addressed.

26:00

of decks are getting toned down

26:02

across the board with ciliacs, but

26:04

shaman is a particular standout that

26:06

we wanted to further adjust. This

26:08

change tones down both its burst

26:10

potential and its ability to build

26:12

big birds in the early game,

26:14

both of which shaman is better

26:16

at using this card to do

26:18

than demon hunter is, even though

26:20

is a demon hunter card. We

26:22

adjusted this card instead of a

26:24

shaman only card because it's the

26:27

best individual target to accomplish our

26:29

goals across a swath of shaman

26:31

decks. And this is also going

26:33

to speak to speak to the

26:35

fact that the meta. that they

26:37

were nerfing, it wasn't close and

26:39

Swarm Sharmon was running zero cards

26:41

from the Great Dark Beyond. Yeah.

26:43

So, I mean, and this would

26:45

effectively just allow you to set

26:47

up a board like this and

26:49

then because they had charge, you

26:52

could just lead that into Thrall's

26:54

gift with blood less than your

26:56

opponent. Orchardisk explodes. So that is

26:58

going to still be a threat,

27:00

but not as much so. And

27:02

also with cookie, you could just

27:04

build a board. right? You very

27:06

often you just go sigilous guy

27:08

diving on two into cookie on

27:10

three trade off all the pirates

27:12

that's still going to be like

27:14

one less body you're going to

27:16

have on board if you try

27:19

to do it. And swarm salmon

27:21

is still doing well. It's nerve

27:23

play rate more than it's win

27:25

right I think. But asteroid shaman

27:27

has is now doing better both

27:29

in win right by a little

27:31

bit and in play right by

27:33

a lot. I mean it's it's

27:35

like it's said constantly right when

27:37

an agro deck like swarm swarm

27:39

shaman shamanman is Like the best

27:41

thing right like that is usually

27:44

what is putting the play rate

27:46

so high so if it gets

27:48

nerfed significantly even if it's still

27:50

good The play rate goes down

27:52

perhaps disproportionately, but I think I

27:54

like this change a lot because

27:56

for quite a while they didn't

27:58

really have a ton of charge

28:00

and they've brought some back and

28:02

this was one instance where I

28:04

think it sort of was unsuspectingly

28:06

Just they're just little guys Right,

28:08

it has this thing where it's

28:11

like, well, it's not just a

28:13

Leroy that ends the game, right?

28:15

It is so much better than

28:17

that, because you can play it

28:19

onto, it's great early game, and

28:21

shaman in particular had multiple ways

28:23

to snowball or compound this in

28:25

potentially overwhelming fashion, right? The fact

28:27

that you can set it up,

28:29

going into hosen. and they're two-two

28:31

is going into cookie as you

28:33

mentioned and now you've got three

28:36

two drops which just ends some

28:38

games and then if you draw

28:40

it late it still has value

28:42

as okay I'm gonna do this

28:44

to set up for a bloodless

28:46

turn on top of the fact

28:48

that you have the location to

28:50

do that with two so just

28:52

a ton of ways of being

28:54

able to utilize the charge and

28:56

yeah I'm glad it's a little

28:58

bit worse. And I'm sure actually

29:00

there's some instances where it's going

29:03

to be like, oh good, I

29:05

was running out of board space

29:07

anyway. Yeah, I mean you would

29:09

play this with a full board

29:11

and we saw people do this

29:13

in worlds as well, just because

29:15

it was like, all right, you

29:17

don't clear my board, I still

29:19

have a board, you do clear

29:21

my board, I still have a

29:23

board. This is fine. You know,

29:25

if you waste my two mana

29:28

by not clearing my board, am

29:30

I unhappy? Definitely, definitely not. May

29:32

as well. Crystal Cluster, which is

29:34

a Druid card, so yay. It's

29:36

going from Six Man into Seven

29:38

Manor. Dev comment, Druid has received

29:40

a variety of ways to ramp

29:42

in recent sets because that's a

29:44

poor part of its class identity,

29:46

but this card allows Druid to

29:48

ramp into TravelMaster Dungar faster more

29:50

consistently than we'd like. We're adjusting

29:53

this card instead of Dungar directly

29:55

because this is an overperforming card

29:57

in the deck even outside of

29:59

Dungar. And this change will have

30:01

a slightly larger impact on the

30:03

deck as a whole. than increasing

30:05

Dungar's mad at a 10-1, which

30:07

is, that's fair. I mean, because

30:09

off. sometimes you're not ramping into

30:11

don't gar, sometimes you're ramping into

30:13

yog, sometimes you ramp, because I

30:15

mean you would go from six

30:17

to nine on that turn and

30:20

then you'd be a 10, right?

30:22

So if you have, so now

30:24

if you haven't played some sort

30:26

of either a new heights or

30:28

you're not coining this out or

30:30

whatever, you're almost always wasting one

30:32

of those matter of crystals. I

30:34

mean you're getting a 37 in

30:36

place, it's not the end of

30:38

the end of the world. but

30:40

you're not going to always be

30:42

ramping three with this where you

30:45

were before and like it was

30:47

there's so much ramp between I

30:49

mean there's there's new height we've

30:51

talked about this enough but there's

30:53

new heights there's thralls gift into

30:55

wild growth there's trail mix and

30:57

then you just hit two of

30:59

those and then you're doing this

31:01

on curve so now it's going

31:03

to be a little bit harder

31:05

because you're going to be going

31:07

to be going like Like normally

31:09

you would click coin out and

31:12

you or innovate out one of

31:14

the the ramp spells like either

31:16

a new heights or A thrall's

31:18

gift and now that won't get

31:20

you to seven quickly enough So

31:22

there you'll still have kind of

31:24

a down turn in order to

31:26

be able to do that. So

31:28

it's I mean I haven't seen

31:30

nearly as many druids. I did

31:32

I have seen some but it

31:34

didn't seem and I mean I

31:37

was abusing dungar druid to climb

31:39

before And I haven't even really

31:41

tried, but like that, I've noticed

31:43

when I when I was playing

31:45

before the patch dropped. Like, I

31:47

was thinking to myself like, okay,

31:49

if I couldn't play this until

31:51

seven, how dead would I be?

31:53

And the answer was generally pretty

31:55

dead. Yeah, it still looks like

31:57

it's positive since the patch, but

31:59

much less so. Yeah, you can

32:01

get under it a little bit

32:04

easier. So, like that's the problem

32:06

is that they just didn't miss

32:08

their ramp. and now sometimes they

32:10

miss their ramp or they they

32:12

they you have a window to

32:14

hit them where they're not ramping

32:16

yeah I still am nervous about

32:18

heights, sort of long term. We'll

32:20

have to see if the gifts,

32:22

do they go away? Gifts are

32:24

going away. Gifts are going away

32:26

with rotation. So, you know, perhaps

32:29

that's an opportunity if they don't

32:31

immediately make another, you know, ramp

32:33

at three card. Yeah. Because yeah,

32:35

it just was the situation where

32:37

it's like, well, they never miss

32:39

their turn three ramp for the

32:41

most part. And then that takes

32:43

them into this sort of middle

32:45

stage where they're using either crystal

32:47

cluster or trail mix to power

32:49

out some, you know, insane mid-game

32:51

play. So, yeah. We'll have to

32:53

see. I still, I have feelings

32:56

about putting the ramp and the

32:58

razor Maxmana on the same card,

33:00

but. Yeah. Well, the good news

33:02

is Crystal Cluster is also rotating,

33:04

because that was showdown in the

33:06

badlands. So we just forgot that

33:08

that was rotating, because we didn't

33:10

see it in showdown in the

33:12

badlands. And before they put, what's

33:14

the forecast one, overgrowth in core?

33:16

Oh God, don't even give them

33:18

ideas. Like, don't speak that into

33:21

the universe. Like, don't do that.

33:23

Oh, yeah, why don't we just

33:25

give them lightning bloom, too while

33:27

we're at it and just, you

33:29

know. That doesn't work the same

33:31

way anymore, so. It still, it

33:33

still sucks. So that's it for

33:35

standard nurse. We did get a

33:37

couple of wild nerfs, because apparently

33:39

Questroid, Quest, not Questroid, Questwarlock, was,

33:41

uh, it had been long enough.

33:43

It's like, I feel like we

33:46

need one of those signs, like,

33:48

zero days since Quest Warlock was

33:50

a problem in wild. You know?

33:52

So Questswirlock was a problem and wild, so they

33:54

nerfed a couple more cards. So they took dark

33:57

glare, which is. three out of of

33:59

three used to say after

34:01

to say damage, your your mana

34:03

crystal. damage And now

34:05

it says mantle if your hero

34:07

took damage to this turn, refresh

34:09

three amount of crystals. your hero it's

34:12

just this turn refresh four, if you crystals. So

34:14

it's that. free three I mean, I guess if

34:16

you can... that yeah I you can go

34:18

if you it, but, yeah, it maybe you

34:20

can go positive work. it It's

34:22

now just like worth it's

34:24

now just like an agro It's

34:26

free stats. stats. It's like like dragon.

34:28

It's like the dragon in and druid right

34:30

that doesn't have it doesn't have doesn't have

34:32

taunt and it's just a three, four

34:34

and that card is. four and that

34:37

card is a dead card. is You're not going

34:39

to see that anymore, I would imagine. see that

34:41

anymore. I would imagine Yeah Pro-tip whether

34:43

or not you play play wild

34:45

you type refund into the collector you have to

34:47

check wild have to check glare to dark

34:49

glare if you have it you have it. it's

34:51

an epic, so you do want that

34:53

dust. that dust. Yes the other one that's

34:56

getting nerfed is a getting nerfed to a dust

34:58

that one, you because the demon you nerfed.

35:00

to also Again. that one, but because

35:02

the demon seed is getting nerfed.

35:04

is going from seed damage

35:06

per stage. damage per stage to

35:09

damage per stage. which is which

35:11

is like. thinking thinking about what what

35:13

was it like five, six six

35:15

and seven it it started? Like

35:17

was something like that. It's just like like.

35:19

It is is like the warlock card

35:21

because it it will not

35:23

die. for this is the demon seed has

35:25

had its ups and downs in wild since it's released our dev

35:27

comment for this is for a seed has had

35:30

its ups and downs step in when the deck is too powerful

35:32

philosophy and while so we generally step to when

35:34

the deck is too powerful, too strong, and

35:36

too frustrating to play against. the most

35:38

popular deck in is currently the most popular deck in

35:40

the highest one of the highest win always It has

35:42

always been one of the most polarizing cards in

35:44

the game. game. So we're we're double in here. Claire is

35:46

the most egregious part deck, allowing for

35:48

huge boards and consistent and completion earlier than

35:50

we'd like, earlier so it is getting hit is

35:52

getting We're also ramping up the quest lab

35:54

requirements to adjust the non to versions non-

35:56

the deck. Claire There were the deck. There were

35:59

non- Dark Claire versions. Wow. Apparently. Well, now

36:01

you need to overkill yourself by

36:03

six to complete the quest. Before

36:05

you just had to kill yourself.

36:07

Now you have to overkill yourself

36:09

by six. Well, they did. They

36:11

did introduce. What was it? Healthstone.

36:13

That's the zero man and tradable.

36:15

That refunds all the hero. Yeah.

36:18

I describe all men as like

36:20

this, but the wild meta even

36:22

more so, like there was that

36:24

episode of The Simpsons where Mr.

36:26

Burns went to the doctor and

36:28

he said, oh, you know, and

36:30

to see what was going on

36:32

with him and the doctor brings

36:34

out just like this model of

36:36

like every German existence trying to

36:38

get through the door all at

36:40

once and Mr. Burns is like,

36:43

oh, so what you're saying is

36:45

I'm invincible. It's like, no, if

36:47

even one of these is thrown

36:49

out away, like every one of

36:51

the rest of them is going

36:53

to come in minutes and you'll

36:55

be dead in minutes. So we

36:57

also think of one buff in

36:59

this patch. Now they're gonna, they're,

37:01

again, they're being a little bit

37:03

more conservative in this patch because

37:05

they're doing it right before a

37:08

holiday break and there's not an

37:10

opportunity to do anything to step

37:12

in for a little while. But

37:14

Talgath is a card that is

37:16

pretty hard to make too strong,

37:18

I think. So Talgath is a,

37:20

it was a four amount of

37:22

four, four for rogue. Now it

37:24

is a three amount of three,

37:26

three, three, three that says undamaged

37:28

minions, take double damage, take double

37:30

damage, and combo, and combo, and

37:33

combo, get a back step. Dev

37:35

Comet is with the miniset in

37:37

the Natus system future. We weren't

37:39

looking to make many buffs this

37:41

patch. However, Algaeth has been an

37:43

especially underwhelming card since launch. And

37:45

with Roe getting hit in this

37:47

patch, we thought this was a

37:49

fine time to give it a

37:51

bit of a boost as well.

37:53

It is one of those that

37:56

falls into what used to be

37:58

a consistent pattern of robes getting

38:00

a legendary that was extremely questionable

38:02

or a niche. Yeah. Like one

38:04

of those, yeah. So like face

38:06

collector was like a three. format

38:08

of 3-2 with echo that we'd

38:10

add a random legendary from another

38:12

class to your hand or something

38:14

like that. I thought it was

38:16

three. Maybe it was three. Yeah.

38:18

Four would have been too much

38:21

for an echo. Maybe it was

38:23

three. There were a few things.

38:25

It was very bad. But I

38:27

will just briefly highlight here that

38:29

notably missing from this list of

38:31

cards that I expected was Ethereal

38:33

Oracle, which is. I mean, we

38:35

talked about that meme for a

38:37

reason where it's the flex tape

38:39

that you put on every deck

38:41

right now to, you know, make

38:43

it playable. And I think when

38:46

they're saying, you know, not wanting

38:48

to shake the things up too

38:50

much before holiday break, that's what

38:52

they're referring to, right? Because that

38:54

sort of feels like the most

38:56

standout card that could have gotten

38:58

hit that didn't. And so... That's

39:00

the only reason I can assume

39:02

that they haven't touched it, and

39:04

then they'll probably wait even further

39:06

after the mini set. So could

39:08

be a while until we see

39:11

a change to Oracle. It is,

39:13

you know, one of the newer

39:15

cards seeing the most play, but

39:17

I do expect it to be

39:19

hit eventually, particularly with the direction

39:21

that it seems like they want

39:23

things to go. Interested in kind

39:25

of further discussion on this Kibler

39:27

has a video that he put

39:29

out recently a sort of state

39:31

of the game video. You know,

39:34

you may not agree with everything,

39:36

but I do think there are

39:38

some some good points in there.

39:40

So if you if you like

39:42

that sort of analysis, definitely check

39:44

it out. People will likely be

39:46

talking about it. And just for

39:48

reference, according to HS replay, it

39:50

is in... At Diamond through Legend

39:52

last three days is in 33.6%

39:54

of decks, which is actually lower

39:56

than I thought. And the only

39:59

two cards that are higher than

40:01

that is Ziliacs, which is in

40:03

59. percent of decks because it's

40:05

yeah because it's because it's not

40:07

the same card right it's it's

40:09

a bunch of different cards in

40:11

one so it's it's not it's

40:13

kind of unfair and the useless

40:15

expenses in 41% of decks yep

40:17

which is that's perhaps also not

40:19

great yeah and people were worried

40:21

that that wasn't going to be

40:24

active ever oh oh who was

40:26

worried Not me. I was the

40:28

one I'm saying, because Kakhar was

40:30

busted. So yeah, I'm just like,

40:32

man, what do you think they'll

40:34

nerfit to? 150? Like, yeah. My

40:36

husband gets home yesterday and he's

40:38

like, they all just had that

40:40

board clear. I was like, what

40:42

board clear? See, it's like, the

40:44

board clear. Everyone always has it.

40:46

I was like, the tracker now

40:49

does have a, how many cards

40:51

have been, you know, played. or

40:53

destroyed or drawn if you play

40:55

with a tracker. But he was

40:57

like, yeah, but I don't know

40:59

when they run it yet. And

41:01

I'm like, this, just assume that

41:03

if they're slow that they run

41:05

it. Did you just advise him

41:07

to just hit them in the

41:09

face and then they'll die before

41:11

they can play it? I mean,

41:14

yes, also that. I wonder if

41:16

it goes to like 1010 or

41:18

something, because it feels like stats

41:20

is much more meaningful to hit

41:22

than. Then when? Yeah. It is

41:24

a 1515. The 151515 15-15-15-15-15 is

41:26

big. Two hits is not very

41:28

many. We have to have the

41:30

expanse be a little bit less

41:32

ceaseless. It ceases eventually. I mean,

41:34

let's be real. At that point

41:37

in the game, if it's, if

41:39

it's sticking, you weren't winning anyway,

41:41

right? And most of the decks

41:43

that it's, if it's, if you're

41:45

playing against a deck that's good,

41:47

that game is going to progress

41:49

past that board clear, you probably

41:51

have a way to remove it.

41:53

So, yeah. I think there's situations

41:55

right if you make it sort

41:57

of more raceable or. you know,

41:59

know take doesn't take

42:02

your entire board to clear it

42:04

like that. opportunities. up more opportunities,

42:06

this is not a thing rate. this is

42:08

not happening, and there's gonna that's of

42:10

happening and any going to

42:12

be a whole Yeah. of but

42:15

there between now and a neutral

42:17

that's in that many decks, then is a point

42:19

that that nerfing a neutral that's in

42:21

that many decks, then you're affecting that

42:23

many decks in the meta and

42:25

that's is to have unintended consequences, which

42:27

is not what they want into. into

42:29

a holiday break when they as don't

42:31

have as much freedom to be able

42:33

to. of freedom Not that they have a lot

42:35

of but have Otherwise, when a lot of the time, but

42:37

they have even less Right. They don't want in the office to

42:39

do anything. Christmas. Yeah. they don't want to give

42:41

everyone everybody is, when you are at home and avoiding your family and

42:43

just wanting to play thing that last thing

42:45

they want is when everybody is that also.

42:47

So When you are at home and avoiding your

42:49

family So just wanting to play So, also. So, so that made

42:52

the do that also. So, also. you can't do that So, so that you

42:54

can't do that. So, also. So, also. So, also. So, so that. So,

42:56

also. So, also. So, also. There's a a

42:58

bunch of battlegrounds changes as usual. as

43:00

We point you We will notes you to the patch

43:02

notes a lot of them and I

43:04

would lose my voice before I lose

43:06

my voice before suffice to say there are

43:08

lots of things changing there. say there are lots

43:10

of things made two small changes

43:12

to made two small changes to

43:15

Arena, which is the Edge, which is

43:17

the 46 for in Paladin, 4600 with divine

43:19

shield. with That is no

43:21

longer is no longer all, gone. at

43:23

all. Gone. it's not. not. Horizon's Edge

43:25

is the the. Death Knight location. Oh, that's a

43:27

a night location? was I I was

43:29

thinking of Living Horizon, my bad. Correct. No,

43:31

No, these are both Death night

43:34

cards because Death Knight is is gross

43:36

So Horizon's Edge, which that's the, so is that the

43:38

one that Edge, which is that's the, which one is?

43:40

that the one that gives that's the cannonball one. Oh, the

43:42

that's, that's the How has it Oh, the cannonball been

43:44

It's, how has it been? It's only been

43:46

like a month since that was everywhere. And

43:48

now that's, it's so long that I've forgotten

43:50

that it was a thing. a thing. So that makes

43:52

sense, that that would no longer be longer be and

43:54

travel security. travel it's going

43:56

to be offered significantly less. less

43:58

while you're drafting. So that's just

44:00

a time to bring Death Knight

44:03

down a peg. So if you

44:05

are an arena enjoyer, be subsequently

44:07

aware of that. I got completely

44:09

destroyed playing Zorimi Priest with an

44:12

excellent start by hat simply by

44:14

one Horizon's edge. And then he

44:16

drew a second one a little

44:18

bit later. He was playing actually

44:21

Edel's Starship Death Night. And yeah,

44:23

I was like. both orbital halos

44:25

early, you know, one into two

44:27

into three. And it's just like

44:30

horizon's edge and your board's gone

44:32

and your board's gone again. Yeah,

44:34

well, then you just use plays

44:36

that and says screw it we

44:39

cannonball. You know, exactly. So there

44:41

was also an end of the

44:43

year review that was posted. We're

44:45

not going to read all three

44:48

through all this. There's a lot

44:50

of facts about all the different

44:52

things that. people have done. One

44:54

note here is that over four

44:57

billion Merlox have been played in

44:59

battlegrounds this year, which is more

45:01

Merlox than people in the US,

45:03

China, India, and all of Europe

45:05

combined, Murgle, as it says to

45:08

me. Murguil, I guess is what

45:10

it's saying. I am brushed up

45:12

on my Murglish, but yeah. So

45:14

that's just a couple of interesting

45:17

little. It bits there. That's a

45:19

fun little thing that they do

45:21

every year. And then there's, you

45:23

know, just a recap of some

45:26

of the things that have happened

45:28

this year. So it's a cool

45:30

little, cool little read if you

45:32

are interested in that. Megasa, I'm

45:35

going to let you introduce this

45:37

next one because you found it

45:39

and I feel like this is

45:41

bananas enough that you should be

45:44

the one that gets to tell

45:46

everyone about it. saying, today

45:48

I learned, you can drag the room

45:50

symbols to remove all cards from the

45:52

selected room type. So if you're in

45:54

the collection, and you have, for example,

45:56

a Rainbow Death Night, they actually have

45:58

like a... gift of this. And you

46:00

drag the bloodroon, all of your cards

46:02

with bloodroons on them that are in

46:05

your deck will also be dragged out

46:07

of your deck. Just mind blown. And

46:09

one of the top comments says, how

46:11

did I not know this? This is

46:13

so cool by a certain ridiculous half.

46:15

Yep. So even the person who was

46:17

professionally paid to be in the client

46:19

most of the day is not was

46:21

not aware of this. I mean, that's...

46:23

That's kind of this is always a

46:25

problem with like you I design is

46:27

that discoverability is kind of a really

46:29

difficult thing to do with some of

46:31

these gesture type things and I mean

46:33

it's a it's a cool it's really

46:35

it's actually really handy if you want

46:37

to be able to change up your

46:39

deck that way but it's just like

46:41

you would need to know that you

46:44

can even interact with those things and

46:46

that what dragging it out of the

46:48

deck list would do and it's just

46:50

there's no way to really know that

46:52

without somebody you will not forget that

46:54

that's a thing that you can do,

46:56

but you have to actually see it

46:58

once and there's no way to really

47:00

stumble into something like that. When you

47:02

start dragging it, it kind of shows

47:04

you what the cards are that are

47:06

coming away. But yeah, it would never

47:08

have occurred to me that it would

47:10

be interactable. I assume that if you

47:12

had like two blood in an unholy

47:14

and you drag one blood away, it'll

47:16

take away your double bloods. If you

47:18

take away a room, it takes away

47:20

with you can no longer have in

47:23

your deck because of your deck because

47:25

of your deck because of your deck

47:27

because of it. So music from the

47:29

tavern volume two is out on Spotify

47:31

and Apple Music and a bunch of

47:33

other music services that I had not

47:35

heard until I read that announcement. So

47:37

if you want some more heartstone music

47:39

in your life, you can go and

47:41

listen to that. And if you really

47:43

want to be meta, you could mute

47:45

the music in the game and then

47:47

play that over the game in the

47:49

music or the game music just to

47:51

completely give yourself a discord experience. That's.

47:53

I'm not your dad. I'm not going

47:55

to tell you what to do. But

47:57

yeah, that's a thing you can do.

48:00

And finally, it's an it's an

48:02

end of an era. final

48:04

Tempo Storm meta snapshot has

48:06

been has been

48:08

published. Now, for those of you

48:10

those of you who have

48:12

not been I want to say

48:15

Angora, which to when like Vicious

48:17

Syndicate and Which

48:19

is H.S. replay both syndicate

48:22

and. getting, I don't know if

48:24

they both really started getting, I don't know

48:26

if they started around them, but they

48:28

started getting like popularity and doing a lot

48:30

of the data collection. of the data collection.

48:33

Tempo Storm, Tempo Storm's Mad a

48:35

snapshot the Bible back in

48:37

the old in the old days of

48:39

climb ladder because we to climb ladder because

48:41

we didn't have all that data collection.

48:43

You just had then. You just had. who

48:46

were bunch of people who were

48:48

really enthusiastic about particular classes. at

48:50

a high level playing at a high level that

48:52

would say, these are the decks that we're seeing

48:54

and are the decks, decks to play. And it was all.

48:56

and it was all basically vibesbased

48:58

based. And I mean mean, it wasn't, which is

49:01

not to say that it was necessarily inaccurate.

49:03

was necessarily was, it was a it call judgment was

49:05

gonna be tier one, tier two, tier three,

49:07

because there wasn't any data to back it up.

49:09

two, tier three because there and

49:11

that was what we went, what we went on

49:13

And they published it, was usually what we when they

49:15

published it, it was they published it, it was report

49:17

is today. weekly and when they published

49:20

so they've been, I don't know if they've

49:22

been doing it for standard as often. They've

49:24

still been very big in the wild if they've been

49:26

doing it just quite as prolific. often. But

49:28

Um, but they've decided that they're going to,

49:30

they're going to be. to be Retiring

49:33

that, mean, I mean, Tempo, was

49:35

a competitive a team. when

49:37

they were doing this, and that was one of the

49:39

ways that they were, that was one of the ways that they

49:41

was one of the ways that they were

49:43

creating content. that they were creating content trying

49:46

to, you know, get get get their name out

49:48

there. name out there. That hasn't been that hasn't

49:50

been the case for quite a while

49:52

because competitive Hearthstone teams are not. teams are

49:54

not a thing for the most part

49:56

anymore. part any more. transitioned over, over, if you

49:58

haven't heard heard of the bizarre, that's the... that's the

50:00

game that's come out that's kind

50:03

of battlegrounds ask. And Tempo as

50:05

a company is moving into focusing

50:07

more on the bazaar and less

50:10

on other games. So yeah, I

50:12

mean, it's, you know, all things

50:14

come to an end and, you

50:17

know, it's probably well past time,

50:19

but it still is kind of

50:21

impressive that they've been doing this

50:24

for 10 years, but also kind

50:26

of sad that that's no longer

50:28

going to be a thing. Yeah.

50:31

I mean. It's been kind of

50:33

less and less useful over the

50:35

years anyways. I think this is

50:38

more of a formality than anything

50:40

else, right? And it makes sense

50:42

with that making their own game

50:45

the bizarre, which is a competitor.

50:47

So why would they keep maintaining

50:49

a thing for Hearthstone? But yeah,

50:52

I think it was just like,

50:54

VS is one at this point

50:56

when it comes to this kind

50:59

of space. So yeah, it's kind

51:01

of like a nostalgic like, oh

51:03

yeah, you know, end of an

51:05

era, but it kind of ended

51:08

a long time ago. Yeah. So,

51:10

but that is it for news,

51:12

but we do have some tournaments.

51:15

So let's, we have, well, we

51:17

don't have some tournaments. We have

51:19

one big tournament that we need

51:22

to talk about. So let's do

51:24

that. So

51:32

if you were watching over

51:34

the weekend, we had our

51:36

world championship. And spoilers, our

51:39

winner from the China region,

51:41

honestly, not super surprising given

51:43

the way that they qualify

51:45

versus the way that everyone

51:47

else qualifies latter versus tournaments,

51:49

right? But regardless, it was,

51:51

of course, very well played.

51:53

Extremely. interesting set of lineups.

51:55

I think I kept finding

51:58

myself over the weekend saying,

52:00

oh yeah, okay, I see

52:02

this person has, you know,

52:04

control lineup, they're trying to

52:06

target these things, and like,

52:08

oh, but then they also

52:10

have this, right? There's just

52:12

like these weird things going

52:14

on where it would be

52:17

like, okay, well, this is

52:19

targeting rogue, which means that

52:21

it has like a tack

52:23

demon hunter, swarm shaman. Dungar

52:25

druid and I forget the

52:27

fourth one might be their

52:29

own rogue sometimes or maybe

52:31

it would be a hand

52:33

buff paladin with a bunch

52:35

of tech cards like really

52:38

interesting strategies that that you

52:40

kind of have to know

52:42

the matchups pretty well to

52:44

understand like okay I think

52:46

they're trying to target this

52:48

thing but a lot of

52:50

the lineups I'm sure we're

52:52

also just This is that

52:54

player's thoughts on what the

52:57

best Ford X in the

52:59

meta are. However, the winning

53:01

lineup. Janming's lineup. Fizzle Discover

53:03

Hunter, which goes infinite by

53:05

the way, Cycle Rogue, which

53:07

is the most normal of

53:09

this deck that was in

53:11

a lot of lineups. Cycle

53:13

Rogue was just very powerful

53:15

and it can run away

53:18

with games. armor warlock, which

53:20

I do think is more

53:22

powerful for having the freeze

53:24

package, the death night cards,

53:26

that soul freeze, that freeze

53:28

the opponent's board, draw a

53:30

bunch of cards, and control

53:32

warrior. So... Which also went

53:34

infinite with fizzle, yeah. The

53:37

warrior and the hunter can

53:39

both go infinite with fizzle,

53:41

in which you... have ceaseless

53:43

expanse of course right so

53:45

you're clearing the board and

53:47

making 1515 every turn and

53:49

the armor warlock just gains

53:51

a million armor and then

53:53

uses wheel out of ETC

53:56

so it was a control

53:58

lineup plus cycle rope It

54:02

It almost seemed like some

54:04

of the cards in these in

54:06

to beat the other China

54:08

players who also had more

54:10

controlling also had more yeah,

54:13

extremely unique, So, crazy

54:15

to see played. unique, terms

54:17

of some to see to watch. of

54:20

some games to watch, like,

54:22

maybe speed parts some

54:25

parts, but last. a

54:27

game, the game of of Day

54:29

2, or Day 2. The match of day of I

54:31

don't know if it was last game in that match. was

54:33

last game in that match. I think it may

54:35

have been, think it may have been

54:38

played actually. warrior and against,

54:40

I think it was a Rainbow decay. Was

54:42

it and against. playing as

54:44

Rekfam? Yeah, poor I think it was

54:46

a Yeah, that wasn't the last game because Was he

54:48

playing against Wreck the last Fam. Yeah, that

54:50

wasn't the last game, because I was last

54:52

game of that series was extremely after everything

54:55

everything up. It might have been the first

54:57

game. game. I think it think it was the first game

54:59

and then it was like, oh my gosh, they have

55:01

to play more games after this because the game went

55:03

on for like an hour. this an hour

55:05

and 10 minutes, yeah. on for like an hour. It

55:07

was it just and 10 minutes.

55:09

Yeah. And yeah, it just was ceaseless

55:12

expanse and armor game. And

55:15

somehow Rekvam held on

55:17

as long as he did, you know, to

55:19

the know, to the point of

55:21

getting a to turn his turn. got

55:23

his stuff into and try and ekeout win

55:26

that way. way. Maybe there

55:28

was something to be done with

55:30

the with the randomly generated...

55:33

Myestra gave a hero.

55:35

He got a Tony got

55:37

a Yeah, did. So if the the

55:39

snapshot had ever been left in

55:41

the deck in the deck, it, have of

55:43

course it it. Yeah, there there

55:45

was this insane thing going on

55:47

on where I I would have thought

55:49

thought you would, you know,

55:51

leave the snapshot. in the the deck

55:54

to not take fatigue. But Jan

55:56

was just playing APM armor gain

55:58

over here. over here and... since

56:00

the armor gain always outmatched the

56:02

fatigue he would be taking, he

56:05

just allowed himself to take the

56:07

fatigue for a draw at start

56:09

of turn every time and never

56:11

left anything in his deck. So

56:14

at no point was Rekvam able

56:16

to. get a copy of the

56:18

snapshot from a randomly generated Tony,

56:20

which would have been insane and

56:23

probably wouldn't have mattered because he

56:25

has not practiced this deck the

56:27

same way that Gotman has and

56:29

would not be able to naturally

56:32

flow into I'm going to play

56:34

as quickly as possible, Great Heights

56:36

and Guilbores and C-Sliffs and fizzled

56:38

snapshot and all these things, right?

56:41

It was absurd. I mean it

56:43

was a very specific like sequence

56:45

of things that he had to

56:47

do and was enough for them

56:50

on every turn that you needed

56:52

to kind of know what you

56:54

were doing to execute them. I

56:56

actually thought rec fan was playing

56:59

for the turn timer is what

57:01

I thought it would have been.

57:03

Yeah that would be a win.

57:05

He could have been except he

57:08

could have been except that he

57:10

conceded before like at least waiting

57:12

for that his last turn to

57:14

expire because I thought if he

57:17

was playing for the turn timer.

57:19

The attorney conceded at the very

57:21

end after he. play the COBAL

57:23

didn't get what he wanted. I

57:26

figured he would have just at

57:28

least like let the next turn

57:30

go and see if the turn

57:32

timer is going to go off

57:35

because like maybe that maybe that

57:37

tracker tells you if you're looking

57:39

for that sort of thing. Yeah,

57:41

I don't know. It's a great

57:44

many turns to get to the

57:46

timer. I could and he played

57:48

well after the golden COBAL. I

57:50

could totally see being like. And

57:53

I thought turns would happen sooner

57:55

than this. And I'm just saying,

57:57

nope, I'm going to save my

57:59

energy for a later. Because it

58:02

still had a whole series to

58:04

play after this. Right. But if

58:06

we're talking about preemptive concedes, there

58:08

was a heartbreaker where it actually

58:11

was. not infinite, but I think,

58:13

I don't remember what the matchup

58:15

was in this, but it was

58:17

it was one of the other

58:20

China players on this warrior, did

58:22

not still have a fizzle or

58:24

a snapshot to keep things going

58:26

infinitely, and their opponent, Hemlock conceded,

58:29

because he just, he just didn't

58:31

know, I guess. and wanted to

58:33

save energy from having to play

58:35

out a potentially long game against

58:38

infinite. So that must have been

58:40

a tough one to go back

58:42

and look and realize, oh, actually,

58:44

I just had this. Hemlock had

58:47

a randomly generated nizoth, I believe

58:49

this was in his rainbow death

58:51

night, and oh no, sorry, no,

58:53

it was in the dungar druid.

58:56

That's right. And without the infinite.

58:58

And without the infinite. That would

59:00

have been like the final board

59:02

that would not have been able

59:05

to be cleared and would have

59:07

snowballed him to victory. But instead

59:09

he just conceded and we were

59:11

sort of gassed to see that

59:14

happen on the world stage. I

59:16

mean the psychic damage that like

59:18

the infinite fizzal loop causes to

59:20

the opponent is not insignificant. Right?

59:23

Because like... That's it's you're sitting

59:25

there watching them do that every

59:27

turn and then you just know

59:29

that you don't really have you're

59:32

like having to dig for like

59:34

a randomly generated answer to do

59:36

it because you're just not you

59:38

I imagine even even at those

59:41

levels they're probably not seeing that

59:43

deck very often in the regions

59:45

that they're playing like that is

59:47

a very much a China special

59:50

yeah so like if you're not

59:52

used to playing against that. you

59:54

don't have a plan for it

59:56

then it can be very very

59:59

hard to deal with especially if

1:00:01

you have to play against it

1:00:03

more than once and i mean

1:00:05

i don't think anything's more heartbreaking

1:00:08

than fury hunter getting his board

1:00:10

cleared by the yag in that

1:00:12

in the in the dunga drew

1:00:14

a game against yon ming and

1:00:17

then not and then losing that

1:00:19

game that he had pretty much

1:00:21

locked up with the perfect ramp

1:00:23

curve, and then ending up having

1:00:26

to play into the Discover Hunter

1:00:28

that ended up pulling, also going

1:00:30

infinite, and running him out of

1:00:32

the game, and like just got,

1:00:35

he got reverse swept, right? I

1:00:37

think that was a reverse sweep,

1:00:39

even. There were a couple reverse

1:00:41

sweeps, but yeah, I mean, in

1:00:44

the case of Hamlock thing, like

1:00:46

he would have gotten a matchup.

1:00:48

out of the way that that

1:00:50

shifted the flow of the of

1:00:53

the match right that's that's a

1:00:55

thing that can happen but yeah

1:00:57

there were there were there's several

1:00:59

unexpected not necessarily great play instances

1:01:02

I mean they're they're they're highlight

1:01:04

moments but for for sometimes wrong

1:01:06

reasons Yarla versus Game or RVG

1:01:08

was in the group stage There

1:01:11

was a kind of oopsie there

1:01:13

where they're both very deliberate players.

1:01:15

One might say too slow. They

1:01:17

start making actions when the rope

1:01:20

starts. And particularly if you are

1:01:22

on rogue or anything, sometimes that

1:01:24

can be a problem. And there

1:01:26

was a back and forth where...

1:01:29

I forget who missed it first.

1:01:31

I think Gameer was at first.

1:01:33

First Gameer, yeah. Misleeful. And then

1:01:35

Yarlah also misleeful because of timer

1:01:38

stuff. And then, uh... Yeah, I

1:01:40

think it was that, um, Gameer

1:01:42

was on a paladin, he missed

1:01:44

a holy glow sticks into an

1:01:47

eight, eight, but had four health.

1:01:49

somehow because I think that yerla

1:01:51

was on rogue. And so that

1:01:53

gave yerla an opportunity for lethal.

1:01:56

That was to be

1:01:58

fair to him,

1:02:00

a really, really like not super

1:02:02

obvious was a lot of moving parts was a

1:02:04

a lot of right there was a lot of

1:02:06

cards to play. it's a rogue lethal,

1:02:09

right? There was a lot of kind of

1:02:11

see him to it again, he and then

1:02:13

starting, You was that kind of like see

1:02:15

count, it it would have

1:02:17

been an then and he missed the last

1:02:19

damage. was that kind of like yeah,

1:02:21

and then count because was

1:02:23

just a counter been an

1:02:26

board. lethal and he missed last

1:02:28

damage. To be be fair to Yarla,

1:02:30

he really recovered well. This is not

1:02:32

the first time this has ever happened to him in

1:02:34

a, on the world stage. to him on

1:02:36

the world stage. And he really

1:02:38

was able was able to, I think,

1:02:40

refocus. see that both could see that

1:02:42

both of them had pretty shook by it.

1:02:45

by it, like I think left

1:02:47

his chair. because he could see that it see

1:02:49

that it should have been lethal from the other

1:02:51

side. side. I was casting

1:02:53

that one with one with Soddle,

1:02:55

and Soddle's was basically Yarla

1:02:58

has been in this game quite some time, time

1:03:00

and this is not the first time that

1:03:03

time that has happened to him.

1:03:05

Strong player player is, he

1:03:08

is, has always played this way

1:03:10

played this way. to the rope

1:03:12

regards to the rope, able to

1:03:14

yeah, was able recover. He kind of of was

1:03:16

smiling about it a little bit even though a was the

1:03:18

one that lost that game though he was

1:03:20

the one was that game. It

1:03:23

know greater mental mental

1:03:25

fortitude. Yeah, did make it

1:03:27

in the but topic, know, know, I

1:03:29

could tell stories all

1:03:31

day. all The The breakdown of the the

1:03:33

results. Jan Ming from

1:03:36

China wins on that

1:03:38

lineup we discussed earlier.

1:03:40

Fury Hunter came in second,

1:03:42

really pulling for him. for

1:03:44

him. You big fan of big quite some

1:03:46

time. Hunter, from

1:03:49

Denmark, brought. like

1:03:51

the opposite He brought like the opposite.

1:03:53

here. We have We

1:03:55

Demon Hunter. demon

1:03:57

hunter, dongar druid,

1:04:00

the Discover hunter that is more

1:04:02

aggressive, right? No fizzle, no

1:04:04

ETC, and then swarm shaman.

1:04:06

Quite a series, when a

1:04:08

full five games, I believe

1:04:10

it was a full five

1:04:12

games. And it was a

1:04:14

full five games. It was.

1:04:16

Yeah. It was really with

1:04:18

the Dunga jury that he

1:04:20

couldn't quite make it through.

1:04:22

He had some really masterful

1:04:24

agri, like if you want

1:04:26

to take a companion to

1:04:28

our agrode explanations last week.

1:04:30

Like, watch some Fury Hunter

1:04:32

agro games who's really really

1:04:34

strong in those. And one

1:04:36

thing actually that I noticed

1:04:38

about both Fury and Yangming,

1:04:40

I mean, I am someone

1:04:42

who, like, I admire the

1:04:44

players who play slower because

1:04:46

I think that that's a

1:04:48

really good way to do

1:04:50

it for a lot of

1:04:52

people. But Yangming and Fury

1:04:55

Hunter both were much sort

1:04:57

of like, clearly, it's so

1:04:59

much practice and just like

1:05:01

trust in their practice. They

1:05:03

just really play their cards.

1:05:05

they'd still be casting. So

1:05:07

yeah, semi-finals, me smile from

1:05:09

Canada and Yonsu from China

1:05:11

as well. And then quarterfinalists

1:05:13

Hemlock from South Korea, Yarla

1:05:15

from Czech Republic, Bantir from

1:05:17

the US. We got one

1:05:19

in topic. And Pro Yun

1:05:21

from China. So yeah, pretty

1:05:23

dominant showing for China with

1:05:25

the three of the top

1:05:27

spots. and also very unique

1:05:29

approach compared to everyone else.

1:05:31

Both control warriors were from

1:05:33

Chinese players pro-yon and yan-ming,

1:05:35

and then Yuansu was a

1:05:37

little closer to some of

1:05:39

the other regions in terms

1:05:41

of having a attack team

1:05:43

and hunter-hunter-cycle rogue and swarm-shammon.

1:05:45

Although his discover hunter-hunter-hunter... still

1:05:47

had the fizzle in ETC.

1:05:49

So it was. still more

1:05:51

of like the -oriented

1:05:53

hunter, I guess,

1:05:55

maybe I guess,

1:05:57

you can kind

1:05:59

of get

1:06:02

the best of

1:06:04

both worlds. can

1:06:06

kind of get the best of

1:06:08

we have here from analysis who

1:06:10

have here time. We've covered this

1:06:12

sort of thing. it They posted

1:06:14

to Twitter. I don't have Twitter

1:06:16

of thing. They posted We have the

1:06:18

link. don't have Twitter his stuff

1:06:20

in to show notes. in

1:06:23

the show notes. But if you look

1:06:25

at sort of strong performers,

1:06:27

greater than greater than 55%. pure win

1:06:29

-rate, rate, which to as the

1:06:31

to as the deck's percentage. actual

1:06:33

games played rather than

1:06:35

adjusted. games played, counts

1:06:37

a ban as a win for the deck

1:06:40

which a sense to me right if it's drawing

1:06:42

a ban deck, which makes doing

1:06:44

something right? me, right? If it's drawing

1:06:46

actually puts doing something

1:06:48

right. So that actually

1:06:50

puts Lenessa at

1:06:52

78 .6 pure...

1:06:55

68 .4 and adjusted.

1:06:57

despite that not in either either Why

1:07:00

not? why not? Then next you've

1:07:02

got sort of

1:07:04

aggro of agro discover hunter

1:07:06

pirate enough the oddly

1:07:08

enough the armor warlock. The middling

1:07:11

of your 45 sort of range

1:07:13

is range is that hunter and

1:07:15

the attack demon hunter

1:07:17

attack then the weaker

1:07:20

performers then the weaker This

1:07:22

may seem surprising, seem surprising.

1:07:24

pure wind rate makes

1:07:26

sense, sense, swarm shaman and cycle

1:07:28

rogue. although it

1:07:30

says under also in adjusted wind

1:07:32

rate, this is just,

1:07:34

it was This is basically just, it was

1:07:37

being targeted, Swarm shaman and were the decks

1:07:39

that people knew decks expected to be brought.

1:07:41

and expected to be were

1:07:43

targeted with varying degrees of success. degrees

1:07:46

of success, but I I

1:07:48

think there also were some things in there where it kind

1:07:50

of. it kind of was like... how

1:07:52

your lineup was built built on

1:07:54

how you think that matchup

1:07:56

goes between Cycle Rogue and and

1:07:58

swarm shaman. I think a lot of

1:08:00

people would say it's its favorite

1:08:03

swarm shaman, but rogue is one

1:08:05

of those decks where it can

1:08:08

pull one out of the hat

1:08:10

a lot of times as well.

1:08:12

There's a nice visual here that

1:08:15

kind of shows all these stats

1:08:17

over the course of the event.

1:08:20

Swarm shaman and cycle robe were

1:08:22

in the most lineups, had the

1:08:24

most games. Swarm Swarm Shumman banned

1:08:27

29 times, Cyclerogue banned 24 times.

1:08:29

Oh, sorry. No, no, no. We're

1:08:32

not banned that many times each

1:08:34

because they were being targeted. They

1:08:36

were banned, Swarmshummon, four times, Cyclerogue,

1:08:39

seven times. Most banned Don't guard

1:08:41

druid. Makes sense to me. I

1:08:44

don't want to deal with that.

1:08:46

And oddly enough, Rainbow decay. drew

1:08:48

eight bands, which I find very

1:08:51

interesting. And then that control warrior,

1:08:53

once people sort of figured out

1:08:56

that you could sometimes punch through

1:08:58

the armor warlock, I feel like

1:09:00

armor warlock was banned earlier in

1:09:03

the event, and then later people

1:09:05

switched to banning the control warrior

1:09:08

from these two Chinese players, at

1:09:10

least from what I watched during

1:09:12

casting. That's what it seemed like.

1:09:15

Maybe everyone just sort of saw

1:09:17

that infinite warrior sequence on day

1:09:20

two of groups and said, nope,

1:09:22

no, thank you. I don't, uh,

1:09:24

don't want to deal with that.

1:09:27

Control warrior didn't drop a mat.

1:09:29

Didn't drop a game, it looks

1:09:32

like. I mean, it had a

1:09:34

pure win rate of 100%. It

1:09:36

was only three games, right. But

1:09:39

like, and I guess that was

1:09:41

enough to convince people like, nope,

1:09:44

I'm out. Right. Right. concede from

1:09:46

Hemlock that Hemlock absolutely could have

1:09:48

won that game. and the Rainbow

1:09:51

have a great

1:09:53

win -rate a great

1:09:56

but because they

1:09:58

were banned so

1:10:00

much their they were -rate

1:10:03

was a lot

1:10:05

better. they're adjusted win rate

1:10:07

was a as fourth best

1:10:09

of those. Rainbow decay as enough to

1:10:12

have some sample size. that were played

1:10:14

you count some as a win size. If

1:10:16

you count the bans as a win for

1:10:18

the Rainbow decay. Yeah. I think

1:10:20

the results I say, the

1:10:23

the targeting was pretty

1:10:25

effective was pretty effective against both

1:10:27

decks, both and and the shaman. You

1:10:29

one thing one thing if you

1:10:31

bring stuff stuff to and

1:10:33

target particular decks and their

1:10:35

win rate. and their still is

1:10:38

still, you know, quite strong, But

1:10:40

I but I think

1:10:42

this shows that people's approaches

1:10:45

were Papal's approaches were

1:10:47

pretty effective against one or

1:10:49

the other of these in

1:10:51

terms of in terms of swarm

1:10:53

shaman at it was road.

1:10:55

tournament. it was a tournament

1:10:57

of... everything else. else, right?

1:11:00

Like, it was was kind

1:11:02

of these things of these

1:11:04

things were you trying? target? Maybe you

1:11:06

had a soft you had a

1:11:08

soft target on Dungar Druid,

1:11:10

or you were were banning it. and

1:11:12

lots lots and lots

1:11:14

of variation. not necessarily in

1:11:16

necessarily in classes

1:11:18

as much as within

1:11:20

the If you

1:11:22

look even you've got the

1:11:25

classes even you've got. There's

1:11:27

pirate demon Demon. and

1:11:30

attack demon hunter. There's

1:11:32

the aggressive discover discover

1:11:34

hunters the value Dengar Druid

1:11:36

is Dengar Druid. But even

1:11:38

with Rogue, there were a couple of

1:11:40

people, But even with Rogue, there were people

1:11:42

brought Starship sorry, one, yeah, two

1:11:45

people brought Starship Rogue. And

1:11:47

folks on the target

1:11:49

swarm shaman brought Big that

1:11:51

was the best. that was the best

1:11:54

target deck if you're you're

1:11:56

trying to take out out. swarm

1:11:58

shaman and and

1:12:00

then Vanessa Paladin performed similarly

1:12:02

well, but there were also

1:12:05

the hand buff paladins to

1:12:07

try and go against the

1:12:09

rogue, right, that just have

1:12:12

those anti-spel tech cards. So

1:12:14

even though not a ton

1:12:16

of classes represented a pretty

1:12:19

good number of archetypes and

1:12:21

strategies, I believe there is

1:12:23

like a fun factoid here

1:12:26

that like, this is the

1:12:28

first worlds. where none of

1:12:30

the decks in the finals

1:12:33

share an archetype. If you

1:12:35

consider the aggressive Discover Hunter

1:12:37

and the fizzled Discover Hunter

1:12:40

to be different archetypes, which

1:12:42

I would say, right? Yeah.

1:12:44

Fury Hunter did not have

1:12:47

rogue. He was targeting rogue.

1:12:49

Or yeah. And Jan Ming

1:12:51

did not have swarm shaman.

1:12:54

He was targeting swarm shaman.

1:12:57

And generally, like, this is the kind

1:12:59

of thing that happens fairly often when

1:13:01

you have a homogenous ladder environment, it

1:13:03

often will make for a much more

1:13:05

interesting tournament environment because of the introduction

1:13:07

of a ban, right? So like, because

1:13:10

you could ban out swarm shaman or

1:13:12

cycle rober or druid or whatever, that

1:13:14

just kind of opened up a lot

1:13:16

more avenues for you to build a

1:13:18

few different, line up in a few

1:13:20

different ways, and that makes for a

1:13:23

little bit more varied tournament environment, which

1:13:25

is weird. you know those two environments

1:13:27

work out that way but it just

1:13:29

is the difference between having a ban

1:13:31

and not having a ban right yeah

1:13:33

yeah if something is like clearly the

1:13:36

best deck you you just it just

1:13:38

means everyone bans it and you go

1:13:40

about your business yeah yeah yeah there's

1:13:42

there's you know, loads more in-depth analysis

1:13:44

from Encrad on this stuff that I

1:13:46

don't think would make for incredibly thrilling

1:13:49

podcast content for me to just like

1:13:51

read on the show. So definitely go

1:13:53

check that out on his Twitter or

1:13:55

if you like me have abandoned Twitter.

1:13:57

then as a you can

1:13:59

see in our

1:14:02

show notes. in our show notes.

1:14:04

But I think we've I

1:14:06

think. a great got

1:14:08

a great selection

1:14:11

here for our explanations because

1:14:13

the main deck deck

1:14:15

that new cards

1:14:17

at the new that had the

1:14:19

most new had the

1:14:21

most new cards Hunter

1:14:24

and there's a

1:14:26

and there's a couple different

1:14:29

kinds, but this was

1:14:31

the only class. shared between

1:14:33

the two winners, winners their

1:14:35

own with their own archetype

1:14:37

within it. two Correction,

1:14:40

two finalists. For

1:14:42

fairy hunter. Although way. very

1:14:45

well played, Jan Ming.

1:14:47

He's the winner well

1:14:49

heart. the winner in our heart.

1:14:51

If Yogg hadn't screwed him, you know,

1:14:53

then be, so. so. So

1:15:09

we we have Hunter. We are

1:15:11

going to focus

1:15:13

on the more more Smork

1:15:15

hunter, Hunter that is

1:15:17

the better option

1:15:20

on we've played a And... bit more

1:15:22

of, That's what we've played a little bit

1:15:24

more of despite me playing some of the also we had a

1:15:26

we had a lot of things to about. about this time

1:15:28

and we couldn't talk about essentially time.

1:15:30

We couldn't talk about We will

1:15:32

be focusing on

1:15:34

the more aggressive of more

1:15:36

aggressive mantle shaper. Discover some people

1:15:39

are calling it like are Discover Hunter, Mantle

1:15:41

Discover Hunter, Agro Discover Hunter, basically all

1:15:43

the same list. Hunter, Agro Discover

1:15:45

are a lot of Hunter decks that are good

1:15:47

right now. There are a is of hunter decks that are

1:15:49

good right now. was looking at, um,

1:15:51

the actually, so I was tab on tab on

1:15:53

H.S. Guru, is the second

1:15:56

deck there, deck there, sense the

1:15:58

patch. since the patch. Hand buff. Hunter

1:16:00

is that Grunter Hunter we were talking

1:16:02

about, then the Shaper Discover Hunter is

1:16:05

you Hunter with a low sample size

1:16:07

is up there, or a low playwright,

1:16:09

not super low sample size. There's also

1:16:11

Egg Hunter, Starship Hunter. So you have

1:16:14

lots of options in Hunter right now,

1:16:16

but we thought that this Discover Hunter

1:16:18

is one of the newer things going

1:16:21

on, and it's fun, and it's performing

1:16:23

quite well. So, and we haven't talked

1:16:25

about Hunter in a while, partly because

1:16:28

Wicked has it. reputation to maintain, but

1:16:30

I actually got him to try this

1:16:32

step. Yes. So we put the particular

1:16:35

list that we're looking at in the

1:16:37

show notes, but it is the list

1:16:39

that was featured in the Vicious SendingA

1:16:41

report. According to H.S. Guru, it was

1:16:44

actually first streamed and peaked by Donkey.

1:16:46

And so it has this one, the

1:16:48

sort of. 29th, 30th card that people

1:16:51

have messed around with is mixologist. Some

1:16:53

other decks have taken out the two

1:16:55

mixologists for a parallax cannon and a

1:16:58

gorgensormu or for a cult neophyte. So

1:17:00

it doesn't seem to make a huge

1:17:02

difference in win rate. So I played

1:17:04

with the mixologist and so did wicked.

1:17:07

We liked them pretty well, but definitely

1:17:09

if you want to play with something

1:17:11

else, I did lose a mirror because

1:17:14

they had a really good gorgensormu and

1:17:16

I didn't. synergy with the Rangari Scouts

1:17:18

also and it makes your, makes your

1:17:21

alien encounter a little bit cheaper. So,

1:17:23

well, no, it actually does. Oh, it

1:17:25

does. That's right. That's right. It doesn't.

1:17:28

That's right. It doesn't. That's right. It

1:17:30

doesn't. That's right. It doesn't. That's right.

1:17:32

Never mind. I'm, I think I think

1:17:34

I thought it did. I think it

1:17:37

from the time pool. Tidepool pupil. That's

1:17:39

where I was getting the extra one.

1:17:41

It does have synergy with the Tidepool

1:17:44

pupil. And you can Rangari scout the

1:17:46

Tidepool pupil. Yes. So that is a

1:17:48

way to get more of the mixologist

1:17:51

potions. they're just really flexible. They can

1:17:53

help you keep the board with the

1:17:55

plus two health, they can give you

1:17:58

an extra two to, or they can

1:18:00

help clear the board with the deal

1:18:02

three damage or the deal two AOE.

1:18:04

So they are flexible that way. But

1:18:07

what we're playing, it's kind of a

1:18:09

cross between you've got some like observer

1:18:11

of myth stuff, the sneaky snakes. You've

1:18:14

got your vicious slither sphere and your

1:18:16

bunch of bananas, sort of like zoo

1:18:18

hunter, but we're not really a zoo

1:18:21

hunter hunter, like a mantle shaper and

1:18:23

alien encounters. Hunter. Hunter. that it's not

1:18:25

exactly I we could actually picked this

1:18:27

deck up faster than I did I

1:18:30

was sitting here thinking of it like

1:18:32

it was like a zoo hunter or

1:18:34

like a pirate DH it's not quite

1:18:37

your first couple turns unless you have

1:18:39

like exactly slither into a bunch of

1:18:41

bananas your first couple turns are a

1:18:44

little slower but then on like four

1:18:46

you play like a million cards at

1:18:48

once and you have a giant board

1:18:51

out of nowhere. And the thing with

1:18:53

Observer of Mist is it says summon

1:18:55

not play. So you can observer myths

1:18:57

into like a free alien encounters and

1:19:00

it will buff the board. Right. So

1:19:02

like you don't have to like you

1:19:04

used to do that with with Norman

1:19:07

Garz. And but now you're you're not

1:19:09

run Norman Garz in the deck. You're

1:19:11

just using the other thing. So like

1:19:14

mantle shaper you'll get cheaper. That'll buff

1:19:16

everything alien encounters will buff everything. So

1:19:18

like you could do something like. on

1:19:20

turn, say, five, you could do something

1:19:23

like observer of myths into mixologists or

1:19:25

I guess maybe that wouldn't work with

1:19:27

the alien encounters either. But if you

1:19:30

already have it discounted by five, you

1:19:32

know, then you can like sneaky snakes

1:19:34

and then observer of myths and then

1:19:37

like alien encounters and then like mantle

1:19:39

shaper, maybe you play a bird watching

1:19:41

to get things a little cheaper, your

1:19:44

sneaky gets your mantle shapers cheaper. You're

1:19:46

spending a lot of time thinking about

1:19:48

You know, some of these discovers, the

1:19:50

discovers are really, they have a few

1:19:53

roles kind of in this order. One,

1:19:55

find your spike turn. In a way

1:19:57

you have a lot of draw because

1:20:00

you have a lot of things that

1:20:02

discover stuff from your deck. Obviously, Nial

1:20:04

being the most effective of those, but

1:20:07

she's not the only one. You also

1:20:09

have bird watching, for example. And then

1:20:11

you have ways to get those back

1:20:13

if you want. You have tracking. Tracking

1:20:16

is actually a good mulligan card, which

1:20:18

feels weird. Usually you would give the

1:20:20

advice of like, don't keep tracking, just

1:20:23

track now by throwing it by throwing

1:20:25

it. It is a perfectly good keep.

1:20:27

Well, it only discounts a mental shaper

1:20:30

if you have the mantle shaper in

1:20:32

hand. It discounts your alien encounters no

1:20:34

matter what. So you can use your

1:20:37

discover to find your spike and then

1:20:39

you use it to set up the

1:20:41

spike because most of your discover will

1:20:43

also help you set up your spike.

1:20:46

And then after that, after you have

1:20:48

your spike, turn it's your refill in

1:20:50

your sustain. It lets you do the

1:20:53

spike board again and again if you

1:20:55

need to. If they're not just dead,

1:20:57

you can get like a couple different

1:21:00

ziliaxes and so then everything has plus

1:21:02

two attack, you can get more alien

1:21:04

encounters if they're putting up a threatening

1:21:06

board and that lets you just go

1:21:09

face because your things are two fives

1:21:11

and they have to trade their whole

1:21:13

board into it. So you can ignore

1:21:16

it and go face or help you

1:21:18

survive a little bit if you can

1:21:20

get extra stuff from, you know, from

1:21:23

grista. somewhat more effectively, they can be

1:21:25

finishers. You know, the Agmar weapon can

1:21:27

do 15. The grifter, if you get,

1:21:30

deal six or you get, steal an

1:21:32

enemy minion, can be very powerful. With

1:21:34

grifter, unlike the rogue, or the way

1:21:36

rogue used to be, you don't play

1:21:39

the grifter lots of time. So you

1:21:41

don't re-roll, unless you like... Go Rangari

1:21:43

Scout into bird watching get multiple grifters,

1:21:46

which is a good thing to do

1:21:48

if you can do it. But you're

1:21:50

usually not playing grifton multi- multiple

1:21:53

times, copying whatever

1:21:55

you picked multiple times

1:21:57

so keep that

1:22:00

in mind when you

1:22:02

make your pick from

1:22:05

the grifta, is like, that's now your grifta.

1:22:07

to trinket that you're playing. head.

1:22:10

This This also goes to the fact that, like, Rangari

1:22:12

Scout is not a card you generally keep in the mall again. because

1:22:15

you're not looking to use it early. you're

1:22:18

looking to use it on a

1:22:20

later turn more often. when you can

1:22:22

chain multiple into it and get a lot

1:22:24

of value out of its reload. So

1:22:26

like, you necessarily necessarily need a Rangari Scout

1:22:29

early. because you're only going

1:22:31

get one discover out of it and that's not

1:22:33

really enough value unless you're going to need

1:22:35

just like one extra grifta, six damage to get

1:22:37

over the board, or get over the live

1:22:39

for lethal. You

1:22:42

do want that so you can have

1:22:44

that turn. with like, you know, eight

1:22:46

or 10 mana where you're going,

1:22:48

scout into birdwatching, into grifta, And

1:22:50

then you get the two spells and you can use all

1:22:52

the spells, the following turn, right? And then you could also

1:22:54

grifta again the next turn and and And

1:22:56

then you can things together that way. So.

1:22:58

so there's, you can like

1:23:00

Rangari Scout into tracking into

1:23:03

hero power, into bird

1:23:05

watching, into. scarab key chains in the

1:23:07

decks. you could scarab key chain, maybe get something that

1:23:09

discovers out the scarab key chain because you're degenerate. Like,

1:23:11

like you know, like there, there are different things that

1:23:13

you can do there, but you're generally trying to like get

1:23:16

the Rangari Scout to give you as much value if

1:23:18

you're playing it, because if you're getting to that

1:23:21

point, then you're going need the value in order to

1:23:23

be able to close up. And there

1:23:25

are times where, you know, it's

1:23:27

turn seven. You play

1:23:29

a scout, and ideally you

1:23:31

have the hero power, but maybe

1:23:33

you don't, you play a

1:23:35

tracking. Yeah, the discoverer

1:23:37

just get insane. You discover a thing that

1:23:39

discovers, and like now

1:23:41

you've got multiples of those. It just

1:23:43

keeps going. You go from empty hand

1:23:46

to a ton of cards in. you

1:23:48

know, an instant. so

1:23:51

very sort of powerful

1:23:53

like refill. in that

1:23:55

sense. And There's also

1:23:57

situations where it just, in

1:23:59

conjunction. with grifto or maybe a

1:24:02

mixologist potion, you know, though

1:24:04

mixologist isn't to the potions

1:24:06

are quite good and when you put

1:24:08

them in tide pool pupil, you can you

1:24:10

can get to multiple

1:24:12

copies of them. necessarily Yeah, you're

1:24:14

not necessarily playing multiple to to perfect the perfect

1:24:16

potion, but if you do get the perfect potion,

1:24:18

if you get deal you if you get to

1:24:20

steal a minion. if you get you can

1:24:22

play it, get it in your

1:24:24

pupil, in your and then you can Rangari Scout and

1:24:27

the same turn. the same turn.

1:24:29

to get a bunch of copies

1:24:31

of copies of that. are times

1:24:33

are times where it's

1:24:35

Rangari Scout, discover the

1:24:37

pupil. So you have the

1:24:39

pupil. So then So you have two

1:24:42

pupils. a potion you get or

1:24:44

trink it in a potion or

1:24:46

whatever, or drink it. And then

1:24:49

as long as you have a And then as

1:24:51

long as you have a when you

1:24:53

play the pupils, you'll get

1:24:55

four instances of whatever that thing

1:24:57

was. If you have the thing was. If

1:24:59

you have the that's 12 damage. If

1:25:01

you have the deal, six damage

1:25:03

potion, you have the deal, six damage potion, 24, right?

1:25:05

And sometimes you can chain the

1:25:07

Rengarys. Scouts. So you have a have a Scout, you

1:25:10

you discovered the other one. one. Now

1:25:12

Now you have three of them. And then And

1:25:14

then you play grifta, or you Or you play

1:25:16

the Naga Ling which has has, you know, has

1:25:18

which you know or whatever whatever it is in

1:25:20

it, or your your opponent's entire board. board.

1:25:23

I had a game against an armor

1:25:25

a game against a where I wasn't I

1:25:27

think, where I wasn't fast enough. plan is just

1:25:29

like be your plan is But I fast enough.

1:25:31

fast enough. I fast enough. been I actually had

1:25:33

been looking for the the but I got

1:25:35

the deal damage instead. And I'm like, well,

1:25:37

this works. Hopefully, if they don't get too

1:25:39

much armor. armor. But then I was able

1:25:41

to able to get four four Rangari out

1:25:43

all at once and then

1:25:45

play the the tide pool it I

1:25:47

might have had for it. I might

1:25:50

for it them poor opponent tide

1:25:52

pool pupil like what am My

1:25:54

now? Was like, what

1:25:56

chaining these out. chaining these

1:25:58

out. So, you know, You know, there's... I think

1:26:00

a lot of the difficulty of the

1:26:02

deck is, what do you want from

1:26:04

your deck at what point? What are

1:26:06

you discovering? What do you want copies

1:26:08

of? Which secrets do you pick off

1:26:10

Titan Force traps? We didn't mention that

1:26:12

yet, but that's a really important card

1:26:14

in the deck because it really slows

1:26:17

your opponent down. It can also really

1:26:19

help you build a board depending on

1:26:21

what secrets that you pull from it.

1:26:23

And you can get those from Angari

1:26:25

Scout also, so you can get more

1:26:27

of those secrets if you need a

1:26:29

bunch of ice traps. or you need

1:26:31

a bunch of freezing traps or whatever,

1:26:33

that can be pretty good also. But

1:26:35

I think also understanding, because your game

1:26:37

plan is so flexible, you need to

1:26:39

understand what your path to victory is

1:26:41

at any given point in the game.

1:26:44

Like, because sometimes it's just like, okay,

1:26:46

I could do a whole bunch of

1:26:48

fancy things, or I can just slam

1:26:50

this shaper on three and make them

1:26:52

deal with a three-man-a-five five. and then

1:26:54

see if they can handle that, because

1:26:56

they probably can't, right? There are not

1:26:58

a lot of ways, especially if you're

1:27:00

doing that on an empty board, or

1:27:02

a lot of decks to be able

1:27:04

to deal with like a turn 355.

1:27:06

So sometimes it's just recognizing that you

1:27:08

don't need to get like massive value

1:27:11

out of the stuff, you just need

1:27:13

to put big bodies on the board,

1:27:15

and then, okay, if I stick the

1:27:17

shape or maybe then I can do

1:27:19

some fancy. Some fancy observer midst stuff,

1:27:21

the following turn to buff it up

1:27:23

even more and squeeze some more damage

1:27:25

out of it, but you know, you

1:27:27

just need to just get tempo and

1:27:29

keep the opponent on the back foot

1:27:31

in the early game, just even if,

1:27:33

you know, going back to our discussion

1:27:36

last week about being aggressive, just getting

1:27:38

the chip damage in sometimes is enough

1:27:40

to help you get over the line

1:27:42

later, but you need to recognize that.

1:27:44

And you need to recognize that and

1:27:46

take advantage those situations when they when

1:27:48

they're there, and that can be hard

1:27:50

to recognize. And that's part of,

1:27:52

like, if you are playing something like

1:27:54

bird watching on two, you're probably playing

1:27:56

it so that you can then get

1:27:59

the kind of mantle shaper on three

1:28:01

or so that you can. and get

1:28:03

your aliens encounter sooner or find something.

1:28:05

Also remember that bird watching can buff

1:28:07

something on the board if, because it

1:28:09

buffs all instances of that card. So

1:28:11

sometimes it's a little extra stats on

1:28:13

the board. You might actually want something

1:28:15

you already have in your hand or

1:28:17

on the board from bird watching just

1:28:19

for the staff. And this is not,

1:28:21

like, there are versions of this deck

1:28:23

that basically lop around like magic harp

1:28:25

if you don't have Nail on curve.

1:28:28

This is not one of them. Like

1:28:30

you can absolutely win these games without

1:28:32

Nial, and sometimes it's better because you

1:28:34

sometimes want the Steady Shot Hero Power,

1:28:36

but there are also times that you'll

1:28:38

bird watching, it'll offer you Nial, and

1:28:40

if you don't have a better play,

1:28:42

you probably ought to just take Nial,

1:28:44

because that's going to lead to better

1:28:46

plays later. Yeah. Yeah, and she is

1:28:48

a keep in the mall generally. Yes.

1:28:50

But you don't feel like, it's not

1:28:52

like Librem Paladin when it doesn't draw

1:28:54

a weapon. You don't necessarily need to

1:28:56

have her or you completely gas out.

1:28:59

But if you're going along, then she

1:29:01

is good or even just like she

1:29:03

kind of speeds everything up. If you

1:29:05

have her. Do watch your hand size

1:29:07

a little bit, especially once you get

1:29:09

Rangari Scout chains going. Pay attention to

1:29:11

your ordering. Like for Mantle Shaper, if

1:29:13

you have a one man of spell,

1:29:15

you can essentially play it for free

1:29:17

if you plan to play Mantle Shaper

1:29:19

or that turn. Just make sure you

1:29:21

play it first. The Tidepool pupil's spell

1:29:23

ordering can be a little tricky. You

1:29:25

want to kind of look over and

1:29:28

see how many spells your Tidepool pupil

1:29:30

has left. If you have a tracker,

1:29:32

it can tell you specifically what's in

1:29:34

the pupil, which is very handy. But

1:29:36

even if you don't, it will at

1:29:38

least tell you how many spells. And

1:29:40

you don't want to like not... Have

1:29:42

a proactive game plan just to get

1:29:44

a particular thing and tide pull people

1:29:46

in most situations But you might change

1:29:48

the order of the spells that you're

1:29:50

playing or maybe play a minion instead

1:29:52

of a spell if it was

1:29:54

of a toss-up one

1:29:56

because you want to

1:29:59

make sure you

1:30:01

get sure you get like the

1:30:03

or whatever into the

1:30:05

whatever into the Tideful Most importantly, you're

1:30:07

not. you shouldn't be discovering

1:30:09

for discoverer's sake. discovering for Discover's

1:30:11

sake. Like, you You should be doing things proactively

1:30:13

and the discoverers should be helping that. But

1:30:16

you don't need to focus on making

1:30:18

your alien encounters free. encounters in the first

1:30:20

couple the of the game. turns get there.

1:30:22

Don't worry. get there. Don't get cheap get cheap.

1:30:24

you just pay for a just an

1:30:26

alien encounter for an alien encounters and it's fine.

1:30:29

but you can, you can fall into the trap

1:30:31

of like of like going all in on the in on

1:30:33

the value and that is not how you're gonna win with

1:30:35

this deck. The discover value is to help you get

1:30:37

over the line and it's not the primary you get the

1:30:39

deck. the line. It is is a

1:30:41

really powerful of tool is really powerful

1:30:43

refill tool. It's a powerful tool. to find

1:30:45

the right pieces. It is not the main

1:30:47

tool. It is not the not the visual like,

1:30:50

just the infinite value like just the infinite is

1:30:52

kind of the point. is kind of the point. so

1:30:54

that is an important thing to keep in

1:30:56

mind. That was that was kind of my two misunderstandings

1:30:58

of the deck. First, I thought it was deck.

1:31:00

First I thought it that I should, that I was

1:31:02

going to like curve out that I should that I it's

1:31:04

more of a spike. And then I thought it

1:31:06

was fizzle and it's more of a spike and then I

1:31:08

thought it was fizzled one plays. hunter

1:31:10

which it really isn't. That one plays

1:31:12

pretty differently. in general,

1:31:14

for the the that was it's a

1:31:17

little hard to find stats on a

1:31:19

little hard to find stats on this deck in

1:31:21

some places for reply, for example, doesn't differ. differentiate

1:31:23

it from the Fizzle and they're

1:31:25

really quite different. and

1:31:27

they're really quite so

1:31:29

I use that for the

1:31:31

just screw does, so I wanna keep for

1:31:33

the mulligan. You Shaper

1:31:35

encounters, and surprisingly tracks. hacking in

1:31:37

general? shaper you

1:31:39

can keep bananas with, like, Shaper. or

1:31:42

slither, but tracking in not a...

1:31:44

You can keep. with

1:31:46

like shaper or which

1:31:48

is it kind of counterintuitive.

1:31:50

was not a

1:31:52

counterintuitive. you know, good, like if

1:31:54

you also have the bananas, that's a good, like,

1:31:57

you know, turn one, a turn two. you know, turn

1:31:59

one, turn two. especially if you're

1:32:01

dealing, you know, something that can't deal

1:32:03

with that. But an observer of miss