0:03

Permission to speak. Shadows

0:05

hide you. I am

0:08

the truth. Our paths

0:10

converge. So good to

0:13

see you. Hail to

0:15

you! Never be some.

0:18

Dear Fred's act. I

0:20

hear you. It has

0:23

only begun. Fido! Fred!

0:33

Welcome to episode 494 of

0:35

Coin Conceit, a hearthstone podcast

0:37

dedicated to making the competitive

0:39

side of the game more accessible

0:41

to you. It is Thursday, April

0:43

24th, 2025 in the evening. Coming

0:45

to you from Nomergan, Ohio, it's me,

0:48

Edelweiss. From Northran, Massachusetts,

0:50

we have Wicked Good. Hi.

0:52

From Teldresel, California, we have

0:54

Megasa. And from

0:56

all around the world we have

0:59

you dear listeners, this week's episode

1:01

is brought to you by our

1:03

producers, Number Theory, Crash, Beef Squatch,

1:06

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1:08

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1:10

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1:12

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1:14

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1:17

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1:19

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1:21

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1:23

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1:25

If you would like to support the

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1:30

monetarily, please consider leaving

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us a five-star review on

1:35

your podcast feed of choice,

1:37

as it always helps other

1:39

people find the show. So, life and

1:41

ladder. Wicked, I gotta know. How

1:43

did this happen? Well, you see, I

1:45

was up really late last night

1:48

trying to get a switch to

1:50

and failing. So, so, my week's

1:52

just been full of bad decisions.

1:55

So I assume you're referring to

1:57

the fact that I'm playing Aviana

1:59

on purpose. in standard? That one.

2:01

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't, I

2:03

assume this was Hat's Fault. It

2:05

usually is. But somebody posted in

2:07

the discord yesterday and tagged me

2:10

that somebody had put, built an

2:12

Aviana priest and got into like

2:14

48 legend with it. And I'm

2:16

looking at an Obie Van Canobi.

2:18

Yeah, like 40 legend Aviana, O.T.K.

2:20

Priest. And it sure is a

2:22

deck. I will say, like, I

2:25

played, like, maybe six games with

2:27

it. I had probably a 50%

2:29

win rate, which is better than

2:31

I mean, like, my expectations were

2:33

subterranean for this step, right? So,

2:35

like, 50% is fine. But so

2:38

the idea is that you're playing.

2:40

the hunter locations to discount the

2:42

battle cries. So you can get

2:44

Aviana down as quickly as humanly

2:46

possible. Because you're running, I mean,

2:48

you're running the, the priestess imbue

2:51

is the only imbue that you're

2:53

running just basically as a defensive

2:55

tool that happens to give you

2:57

a little bit of late game.

2:59

But and you have like a

3:01

couple of other battle cries. I

3:04

mean, you have to run Volgin

3:06

in order to get the hunter

3:08

location, but not too many other

3:10

battle cries. So you're basically just

3:12

like running. the hunter locations to

3:14

discount Aviana. So you can get

3:17

her down on like six or

3:19

seven, ideally, or maybe a little

3:21

bit later if you're like clearing

3:23

alongside it. But the idea is

3:25

that you're getting to that point,

3:27

you're playing agents of your for

3:30

both draw and for, you know,

3:32

defense, you've got a lot of

3:34

healing in the deck, you're running

3:36

double greater healing potion, you're running

3:38

the three cost spell that gets

3:40

lifestyle if you've played other spells,

3:42

you've got. You know, whatever other

3:45

clears, you know, repackage and double

3:47

shadow would ruin for paladins, though

3:49

I didn't find it was particularly

3:51

effective against paladin. It's it's funny

3:53

because. in general, there are a

3:55

lot of four attack minions in

3:58

this meta and ruin, ruin destroys

4:00

everything five or greater. So there's

4:02

a lot of things that ruin

4:04

doesn't clear and then you die.

4:06

So that's bad. But so the

4:08

general idea is what you're trying

4:11

to do is you're trying to

4:13

play aviana, just stick aviana on

4:15

a turn, right? And then you

4:17

wait for it to finish. You

4:19

have enough. sustained to generally allow

4:21

that to happen. Then you Taranda,

4:24

and you play champions of Azaroth,

4:26

looking for antonitis, which if you,

4:28

if you champions of Azaroth, you're

4:30

doubling up, or if you, if

4:32

you Taranda first, you're doubling up

4:34

champions of Azaroth. So there's only

4:37

like a handful of minions in

4:39

the pool. And. So you've got

4:41

to, I think someone did the

4:43

math, it's like a 40% chance

4:45

to hit an Antonitis on champions

4:47

of Azaroth. You probably have drawn

4:50

both of them if you whiff,

4:52

and like they'll all cost zero

4:54

anyway at that point. So you

4:56

just play out whatever you need

4:58

to and then try again. But

5:00

then you just do that, all

5:02

your spells cost one, so you

5:05

just start flinging fireballs at your

5:07

opponent and then they die. And

5:09

if you're really blessed, you'll also

5:11

get a vellen along with the

5:13

Antonitis and along with the Antonitis

5:15

and you need fewer fireballs in

5:18

order to do that. Or you

5:20

need you or you have enough

5:22

to do it through like 60

5:24

or 70 or 80 life. And

5:26

that works sometimes it I found

5:28

it didn't really work against the

5:31

paladin because I felt like I

5:33

needed to clear everything in order

5:35

to not just die before I

5:37

got to that point and I'm

5:39

not really sure like the answer

5:41

to well, what if that's what

5:44

if that doesn't work is just

5:46

killed with marin value, which I

5:48

appreciate as a theory. But I

5:50

did not really get to see

5:52

that happen in practice, but it

5:54

did do the thing more or

5:57

less consistently. You know, like the

5:59

only game that I. I lost

6:01

to a non-paladin was because I

6:03

had too many cards in

6:05

hand and then burned either

6:08

the avianna, either the Toronto,

6:10

and just scooped. But, yeah.

6:13

This is one of those

6:15

decks where the combo is

6:17

so convoluted that I wonder

6:19

how often I would win with

6:22

just like doubling the

6:24

summon legendary from Marin.

6:27

Yeah. Instead. Or just

6:29

like getting Vellin to do

6:31

things. I don't know what

6:34

else Vellin would do for

6:36

you, but like, I actually,

6:39

I don't even know, because

6:42

I've been, I know Varian

6:44

is in champions of

6:46

Asaroth, but, um, because

6:49

I've gotten a bunch of

6:51

him. If you whiff on the

6:53

Antonitis, I think I could look up

6:55

the math. I did the math at some

6:57

point when you double it and if

7:00

you cast two doubled. It's actually

7:02

better than that. There's only

7:05

the five. It's brand Antonitis,

7:07

valentarian, and variant. And you

7:09

can only, so you have a

7:11

40% chance for each champions of

7:13

Azaroth. So it's probably better than

7:16

that. But it sometimes has taken

7:18

me casting both of them to find

7:20

it, which is. frustrating.

7:22

But it happens often enough

7:24

that it's fairly reliable. It

7:27

says so a single so as

7:29

a single champions 40% a

7:31

doubled champions like with

7:34

with Toronto or you play

7:36

both of them without Toronto

7:38

is 64% chance. If you

7:40

double double champions you have

7:42

an 87% chance of hitting Antonitis.

7:44

But yeah, you can

7:46

potentially do stuff with

7:48

brand or with felon otherwise.

7:51

There's also double

7:54

puppet theater. Yeah.

7:56

There is. Which? It's

7:58

a choice. Yeah. I didn't feel like

8:01

it was particularly useful. I mean, I'm

8:03

sure that there's some matches where it is.

8:05

I think that really the match is

8:07

where it's going to be very useful

8:09

or going to be against Starship decks,

8:11

where you just, okay, fine, you just made

8:13

a giant Starship, I'm going to make

8:15

my own and it's not going to

8:17

be big, but it's going to have all

8:20

the death rattles in it. And, you

8:22

know, or like, you could do it

8:24

on ancient of your to your to

8:26

cycle to your combo faster. You

8:28

sure can and I think we

8:30

should move on. Yeah. So anyway,

8:33

so I played that because I

8:35

spent the $35 on the fancy

8:37

Toronto and damn it if I

8:39

was going to use it. So

8:41

I did and I did say

8:44

that I needed to be able

8:46

to use it and then this

8:48

was and then the monkey paw

8:50

curled and I got this deck

8:53

thrown in my lap. So it

8:55

feels like it's one or two

8:57

removal tools away from being not

8:59

embarrassing. Yeah, no, I agree. You

9:02

know, but it's I'm not, I'm

9:04

not climbing with it. I'm enjoying

9:06

myself, but I'm not climbing with

9:08

it. I'll say that much. Yeah,

9:10

I may give it a try,

9:13

which is probably probably make it

9:15

better or make it better for,

9:17

you know, normal ranks. I don't

9:19

know how again. It's like, I'm

9:22

just not sure the tools are

9:24

there. I'm surprised it's running one

9:26

repackage, but. Yeah, it's just like

9:28

90 I think we've realized is

9:31

good, but the problem is that

9:33

you're still taking damage. So it

9:35

ends up being like much better

9:37

for, you know, kind of more

9:39

aggressive attacks because they're just sort

9:42

of keeping their stuff alive. and

9:44

okay with taking the damage if

9:46

they're trying to be aggressive. Whereas

9:48

the control deck it's like, well

9:51

you've... We've killed the stuff and

9:53

maybe it gains you life over

9:55

the long run, but you're still

9:57

taking damage. Well, I mean, the

10:00

upside of it is that it

10:02

is ticking up Wish of the

10:04

New Moon to give it Life

10:06

Steel if you have both of

10:09

them in hand. True, in this

10:11

case, yeah. Yeah, so like the

10:13

dream is that you have Nightshade

10:15

tea, you have Wish of the

10:17

New Moon in hand, you play

10:20

all three charges of the Nightshade

10:22

tea, and then you're playing Wish

10:24

the New Moon to get all

10:26

that life back. Sure. Sure. How

10:29

often does that happen? Not often

10:31

enough. And which of the new

10:33

moon does not like. If we're

10:35

gonna buff at some point, I'd

10:38

love to see them buff that

10:40

to like two spells rather than

10:42

three to turn on the life

10:44

steel. Because three, if you don't

10:46

have exactly night sheet, T is

10:49

so much to be able to

10:51

do, especially then when you top

10:53

deck it, it feels just abysmal

10:55

that it's like three damage to

10:58

a minion, no life steel. Right.

11:00

Like it's. So that's something that

11:02

I feel like could probably be

11:04

a little bit better. But yeah,

11:07

it's also that two damages not

11:09

go as far as it used

11:11

to. So you're usually having to

11:13

use two nightshade teas to clear

11:15

like anything of consequence right now.

11:18

And that also kind of sucks.

11:20

Yeah, there's a lot of three

11:22

health things, which is why like

11:24

Colinova's pretty awful. Like hot coals

11:27

works because you do it with

11:29

tea. But you only have tea.

11:31

So it's like if you don't

11:33

have tea with it, then it's

11:36

just it's just holy nova, but

11:38

bad. And you don't because you

11:40

don't have the other things that

11:42

you would have in a more

11:44

aggressive freast, like you don't have

11:47

acupuncture or whatever that could also

11:49

turn it on. Or just the

11:51

weapon or brain. Yeah, you can't

11:53

run a weapon into anything to

11:56

bring your health total down. So

11:58

like if you don't have exactly

12:00

night shade tea to activate it,

12:02

then it doesn't. do any very

12:05

much. It's not really worth running,

12:07

but it's also Like, what else

12:09

are you doing with your life?

12:11

If you're not running that, because

12:13

there's not really any other, like,

12:16

damage AOEs that you could run

12:18

that are better than that. I

12:20

mean, I'm not, I'm not saying,

12:22

like, don't run it. I'm saying,

12:25

like, the fact that, like, that's

12:27

all you've got. And if you

12:29

don't have it, a lot of

12:31

times, you just die to the

12:34

early pressure. Oh yeah, oh I

12:36

would love excavation, give me excavation

12:38

evil. That'd be great, please. That

12:40

would be fine. Which is a

12:42

dated clear. Yeah, sure, like let's

12:45

do that. I'd be fine with

12:47

that. I guess Chaos Nova. Yeah.

12:49

It's too expensive. There's those taunts

12:51

that they added back in, like

12:54

the light elemental, but that's too

12:56

expensive, I think. It forces them

12:58

to trade through usually, but like

13:00

five, turn five and turn six,

13:03

come are so late. At this

13:05

point, like you're already like, Halladin

13:07

already has like an 88 and

13:09

355s by turn six and like

13:11

one taunt doesn't do anything. That's

13:14

the that's kind of the problem.

13:16

Anyway, how about you? Well, all

13:18

right, so until Monday, I had

13:20

been managing somehow to keep myself

13:23

between like 400. I dipped a

13:25

little bit below that at some

13:27

point in the month to like

13:29

900. And I was very pleased

13:32

with myself because usually I drop

13:34

like a stone after a rotation

13:36

and I've been trying out lots

13:38

of stuff and it was mostly

13:40

working not as adventurous as I

13:43

could be but definitely trying out

13:45

lots of things. And then we

13:47

were like, what are we going

13:49

to talk about this week? Because

13:52

we, spoiler alert, don't actually have

13:54

many set. cards revealed to talk

13:56

about. And there's really was one

13:58

obvious thing that talk about, which

14:01

is rogue. Now, I had already tried to

14:03

play a little bit of rogue

14:05

and realized that I haven't

14:07

played a lot of, even though I

14:09

have the Golden Hero Power for rogue,

14:11

it's like with weird rogues. It's

14:13

with or just completely overpowered

14:16

rogues, like back in all

14:18

track, there was that rogue that

14:20

had like scabs and also the

14:22

make your hero have stealth. thing

14:24

and then it had poison weapons

14:26

and it was just absolutely absurd

14:28

but it happened over Christmas so

14:30

it took a while to nerf it that that

14:33

was not hard to play I think even

14:35

I got until I top 500 with that rogue

14:37

and it's dark time yeah it was a very

14:39

dark time yeah yeah I I was not upset

14:41

when I nerfed it even though I

14:43

had been writing that up because it needed

14:45

to be nerf it was like the three

14:47

most annoying qualities of rogue all

14:49

in one deck except also easy

14:52

to pilot, or at least easier

14:54

to pilot. So, but I was like,

14:56

all right, it would be good for

14:58

my development as a

15:00

heartstone player to actually

15:03

know how to play Rogie Rokes. So

15:05

I gave pirate rogue and

15:07

ashramain pirate rogue and just

15:10

regular ashramane rogue, all

15:12

of try. And I have stemmed to

15:14

the bleeding now more or less, but

15:16

I dropped 2000 ranks pretty,

15:19

pretty fast. So, now. It's this

15:21

is like objectively a good place to

15:23

be still. I don't know whether I'm

15:25

going to get 11x or not, but

15:27

that's okay. But it was a little

15:29

bit like I was feeling the groove

15:31

and then not so much. So listeners,

15:33

that is how much I care about

15:36

you. I persisted playing rogue so I

15:38

could talk about it. Now probably

15:40

I should have done a little

15:42

bit more like stopping watching replays

15:44

than going back into it instead

15:46

of like tilt playing, but do as

15:49

I say not as I do. on that.

15:51

I did eventually sort of stop and get

15:53

a little bit more advice and then

15:55

come back and then I did better

15:57

today. Also just was less tilted

15:59

on it. Part of the problem was

16:01

that I kept running into majors,

16:04

which I had not been seeing,

16:06

although some people who were still

16:08

playing in top 1K told me

16:10

they were seeing majors also, mostly

16:12

protest mage, some spell mage. On

16:14

the stats, they're like tier 3,

16:17

spell mage kind of floating with

16:19

tier 4, but they do have

16:21

good matchups against rogue. Because they

16:23

gained a ton of armor, they

16:25

have a ton of stall. Their

16:28

stuff is not that useful for

16:30

you with aschamine, especially with the

16:32

protos mage. It's like less useful

16:34

than you would want it to

16:36

be. And they, the protos mage

16:39

does just kill you at a

16:41

certain point. So you can't just

16:43

like, yeah, chill forever. So it's

16:45

not an easy matchup. And... I

16:48

was like, why is this

16:50

keep happening to me? How

16:52

can I keep running into

16:54

them? But I was able

16:57

to get a little bit

16:59

more of a group with

17:01

it, I think, and it

17:03

is good to learn a

17:05

different style of class. It

17:07

took a lot of re-jiggering

17:09

some of my general habits.

17:12

Like, you can't just throw

17:14

all your tools out of

17:16

draw. I was like, how

17:18

am I running myself out

17:20

of draw? as a rogue.

17:22

Rogue opponent always have full

17:24

hands. And then I kind

17:27

of started to figure it

17:29

out. And I was like,

17:31

oh, just because I'm not

17:33

good at playing rogue, but

17:35

now I have a full

17:37

hand. And then you have

17:39

the opposite problem where your

17:42

hand is too full for

17:44

shelladry cell. So you have

17:46

to work back the other

17:48

direction. Anyway, we're going to

17:50

talk more about rogue. And

17:52

it won't just be me.

17:54

And certainly I'm going to

17:57

be no help. So, you

17:59

know. At first I hadn't

18:01

realized that Edle was playing

18:03

rogue. So I messaged yesterday,

18:05

like, we have a problem.

18:07

which is that I've been

18:09

losing with rogue. I had

18:12

like a 30% win rate

18:14

with it or something until

18:16

I did a lot better

18:18

today. And I was like,

18:20

no, don't worry. I've been

18:22

playing pirate road. We're all

18:24

set. So I'm like, oh,

18:27

thank God. Yeah, I don't

18:29

have like a ton of

18:31

stats because I was doing

18:33

a lot of playing from

18:35

my iPad, but I know

18:37

that the times when I

18:39

was playing rogue, I was

18:42

not climbing. So now I

18:44

was starting kind of on

18:46

the other side of things

18:48

from you, I was in

18:50

the like, you know, three

18:52

to four K range. And

18:54

so it was like at

18:57

various points climbing back to

18:59

two. But I started with

19:01

Maxibon's pirate rogue, which is

19:03

probably sort of the generic

19:05

thing. It's funny. There's like

19:07

more pirate synergistic cards around.

19:09

They're not in there. It's

19:12

not really a pirate rogue.

19:14

It's just a crystal cove

19:16

bargain bin rogue. Like that's

19:18

that's what it is. It's

19:20

a crystal cove deck. And

19:22

yeah, I was having the,

19:24

oh God, too many cards

19:27

problem because that... that Maxibon

19:29

list has toy boat in

19:31

addition to dubious purchase and

19:33

the rating parties. So lots

19:35

and lots of car. To

19:37

the point I actually ended

19:39

up saying this does not

19:42

need toy boat. It could

19:44

be something else. But we

19:46

didn't know more of that

19:48

point is I'm playing some

19:50

rogue. I would not. consider

19:52

myself a rogue expert but

19:54

it has been what I've

19:57

been climbing with and so

19:59

I've got got some

20:01

decent vibes on how

20:03

to how to play it. I

20:05

was curious when I

20:07

had just something

20:09

you said earlier I was

20:12

like well I wonder where

20:14

rogue actually stands

20:17

in terms of my class

20:19

wins. It is fifth. Okay.

20:22

Because his mage is

20:24

at you know 5200

20:26

something followed by warrior.

20:29

the 3,300-something, then

20:31

pallid in the

20:33

3,100-something, and then shaman,

20:36

2,960, rogue, 2,775. So that's

20:38

my top, top half. Death

20:40

Knight recently surpassed the demon

20:43

hunter, well, maybe not that

20:45

recently, but I

20:48

just realized Death Knight surpassed,

20:50

Demon Hunter, it broke the

20:53

1K mark at 1,042. Human

20:55

Hunter is sitting at 997,

20:57

which makes me think I

21:00

should probably just get those

21:02

last three out of the way. Yeah,

21:05

probably. I am now looking.

21:07

Death Knight is by far my

21:09

least played class, by far

21:11

by far, but according to

21:14

H.S. Replays, Staps thing, it

21:16

is my second highest

21:18

win rate class. And my

21:21

first highest win rate is

21:23

shaman. But in terms of

21:25

what I've actually played, 40%

21:27

of games I have ever

21:30

played in Hearthstone were Priest,

21:32

which is even more than.

21:34

It's fewer total games than

21:36

Wicked has played of Priest,

21:39

but a greater percentage.

21:41

Yeah, barring, you know, the

21:43

newer classes, Priest is my

21:45

second to last, which you

21:47

can guess what my least played

21:49

class is. It is druid. Through it.

21:51

Yeah, I was about to say it is

21:53

true. Rogue is my least played class of

21:55

the original nine. I mean, I have fewer

21:58

games with Demon Hunter and Deaf Knight. Right.

22:00

death night it's hard to evaluate

22:02

because like and rogue is also

22:04

my worst win rate by and

22:06

it's not close I mean actually

22:09

my win rate with priest is

22:11

not much better but that's because

22:13

I played a lot of crappy

22:15

priest decks so I mean it's

22:18

my most I've got like 13,500

22:20

priest games it looks like because

22:22

I've got 60 600 wins and

22:24

like more losses than that but

22:27

Death Knight's actually my highest win-rate

22:29

class, interestingly, even though it's... I

22:31

only have... I only have... Yeah.

22:34

Death Knight Control has been more

22:36

viable than Priest's control. And I

22:38

mean, Death Knight has been control

22:40

priest for a while, so I

22:43

mean, that kind of does track,

22:45

but yeah. For me, I think

22:47

it's two things that my priest

22:49

is a little bit lower. One

22:52

is that if I'm gonna play

22:54

a priest, it doesn't have to

22:56

be a good deck for me

22:59

to play it. But if I'm

23:01

going to play a death night

23:03

deck, it has to be a

23:05

good deck, or I'm not going

23:08

to bother. And also, the decks,

23:10

the priest decks I've played the

23:12

most with recently. Well, part of

23:14

it is that I played a

23:17

lot of priest back in before

23:19

my break, Baby Maga days when

23:21

I was playing it like Platinum

23:24

and gold. And all kinds of

23:26

priest decks. But the other part

23:28

was when I've, when I climb

23:30

a lot. Then I'm like, oh,

23:33

I'm going to go with my

23:35

comfort deck, I'm going to play

23:37

priest, and I'm going to win

23:39

less up there because of like

23:42

a ceiling effect. You know, when

23:44

you're at a sort of rank

23:46

peak from yourself, you can't expect

23:49

to have the same win, right?

23:51

Yeah. As when you're climbing. So,

23:53

yeah. Whereas death night, I'm not

23:55

going to play, if I'm anxious

23:58

about it, or if the deck

24:00

is not really good. Also, my

24:02

total number of wins and death

24:04

night, Yeah. What's interesting is my

24:07

second highest win-rate class. Halladin. It's

24:09

the other hole. class. I guess.

24:11

I don't know. Maybe it's just

24:14

like I have holy spells so

24:16

I can make it work. I

24:18

don't know. But it's probably from

24:20

like when I played in Wild.

24:23

I had a couple of runs

24:25

in Wild where Paladin was just

24:27

like giga broken and and I

24:29

just abused the hell out of

24:32

it. I was gonna say like

24:34

it's probably that when you can't

24:36

play priest. We in fact did

24:39

not get a mini set announcement

24:41

and that is why we are.

24:43

That's why we're not rushing through

24:45

life and ladder. Yeah, so, but

24:48

I guess we probably should talk

24:50

to talk some about news. Let's

24:52

talk about some news and then

24:54

we'll talk about some rogue, I

24:57

guess. from patch 32.2, which is

24:59

coming out on Tuesday. We thought

25:01

we were getting a mini set

25:04

announcement and well, which is technically

25:06

correct, which is the best kind

25:08

of correct, but we didn't actually

25:10

find out anything that's in the

25:13

mini set just that it exists.

25:15

So we have patch notes. Battleground

25:17

season 10 is going to be

25:19

live. We talked about it a

25:22

little bit last week. Go back

25:24

and listen to that. If you

25:26

are interested. There are some hero

25:29

updates, there are some Minion Pool

25:31

changes, there's a major Minion Pool

25:33

refresh. Again, they're updating the Minion

25:35

frames to visually show what Minion

25:38

type the minions are on the

25:40

board, which again, occasional casual battlegrounds

25:42

and joyers, though as myself, will

25:44

appreciate quite a bit because I

25:47

can never remember what's an elemental

25:49

and the card art often is

25:51

not helpful. So you can look

25:54

you can look through that. There

25:56

is a preview event. Tomorrow April

25:58

25th as we're recording this, if

26:00

you're listening to the podcast, you

26:03

can go catch the Vods. But

26:05

if you are listening to this

26:07

live, that's going to be 9

26:09

a.m. Pacific to 3 p.m. Pacific

26:12

for America's and Amia Players on

26:14

April 20th. Drops will be enabled

26:16

category wide on Twitch. You can

26:18

watch for two hours to get

26:21

four battlegrounds tokens. You'll get one

26:23

per hour. or one hour per

26:25

drop, two total hours. So I

26:28

guess you get two tokens per

26:30

drop because that's how math works.

26:32

Okay, we did it. Anyway, so

26:34

we have Embers of the World

26:37

Tree Miniset coming on May 13th.

26:39

That is all we know. So

26:41

we will find out what the

26:43

cards are closer to when it

26:46

goes live, but it will be

26:48

coming out. It sounds like it's

26:50

going to be in this patch

26:53

somehow, but just locked away. So

26:55

hopefully that doesn't get leaked, but

26:57

we will see what happens. There

26:59

is going to be an in-game

27:02

event, Embers of the World Tree,

27:04

where you sift through the ashes

27:06

in the wake of the miniset

27:08

to keep your dreams alive. So

27:11

that's going to be May 13th

27:13

of June 3rd. You will get

27:15

six into the Emerald Dream packs,

27:18

one year of the Pegasus pack,

27:20

two random into the Emerald Dream

27:22

Epics, and the Arden Wheeled Hull

27:24

Hunter Hero Skin for completing the

27:27

events. There will also be a

27:29

heroic tavern brawl on the week

27:31

of May 14th to 21st, which

27:33

will coincide with the miniset, interestingly.

27:36

So normally those are a gold

27:38

sink ahead of the miniset. This

27:40

is the first time I can

27:43

remember that this is going to

27:45

be timed alongside the release of

27:47

the miniset. So that's going to

27:49

be a source for a lot

27:52

of deck innovation, most likely. but

27:54

that's going to be May 14th

27:56

to May 21st. The rewards the

27:58

same. It's going to go 12

28:01

wins or three losses. As usual,

28:03

the advice that we give has

28:05

not changed. If you are playing

28:07

this for the rewards, you

28:09

probably shouldn't. There are rare

28:12

exceptions. We were having

28:14

that discussion in the discord

28:16

today. There is exactly one

28:18

person and they know who they are who

28:20

is free to play and probably a

28:23

good enough brewer that they can.

28:25

They can probably benefit from the

28:27

rewards. Most people, if you

28:29

are playing well enough, or you

28:32

are good enough of a player, you

28:34

probably also have all the cards and

28:36

you don't need these rewards. If you

28:39

are playing thinking that you're going to

28:41

be able to get the rewards where

28:43

you're going to break even on

28:45

this, you probably don't have the

28:47

gold sparrow. So, like, it's a

28:49

thousand gold, so you probably need

28:51

to get seven wins is conservative,

28:54

I think. or maybe six. Six

28:56

wins is like seven packs, 250

28:58

dust and 250 gold. So that's

29:00

probably around a thousand gold's worth

29:02

of value. And it's probably not

29:05

going to feel great anyway. But if

29:07

you're getting to 12 wins to get

29:09

like the 50 packs and then the

29:11

three golden legendaries, like you probably

29:14

don't need those if you're playing

29:16

it. If you're planning to get that

29:18

much and you think you're going to be

29:20

able to do that well. Don't look

29:23

at this as a money-making adventure. Think

29:25

of this as going to Vegas and

29:27

setting a budget for money that you

29:30

expect to lose and do it for the

29:32

experience, if you're going to do

29:34

it. Or, yeah, I was going to say, or

29:36

if you just like sort of more tournament

29:38

style play. Yep. I've been saving

29:40

my gold for this and for the

29:42

miniset. So if you are hearing this

29:45

and you haven't been saving your

29:47

gold, you still have a little

29:49

bit of time before the miniset

29:51

drops. Yeah, I may for like

29:53

the first time ever

29:55

just do the golden

29:57

miniset with gold.

30:00

rather than spend all the gold

30:02

on heroic tavern brawl and open

30:04

packs for the mini set. Yeah,

30:06

that's, I mean, I might do

30:08

that too. I've got a lot

30:10

more gold than usual. So that

30:12

might be something that I consider

30:14

doing also, just because I've got

30:16

so much dust from accumulated that

30:18

I don't really need to open

30:20

as many packs. But anyhow, I'll

30:22

get out of my Scrooge McDuck

30:24

gold vault swimming pool and go

30:26

back to the new. So, um,

30:28

When patch 32.2 launches all ongoing

30:30

arena runs will end and there

30:32

will be one last arena season

30:34

under the current system. So we

30:36

heard again as we've talked about

30:38

last week, the arena refresh will

30:40

be coming in patch 32.4, which

30:42

is a month from when this

30:44

releases. So and that's going to

30:46

be when the next expansion is

30:48

going to be released because remember

30:50

this is a shortened patch schedule.

30:52

Normally these are four month long

30:54

cycles. this month is three months

30:56

long in order to change up

30:58

the schedule. So in 32.4 we're

31:00

going to get the new arena

31:02

update and we're going to get

31:04

the announcement in the preorder of

31:06

the new expansion. So this month

31:08

this month it'll be into the

31:10

Emerald Dream including the World Tree

31:12

Mini set even before it releases

31:14

and the fleeing tree and arena

31:16

only card. Showdown in the Badlands

31:18

voyage to the Soakken City, Skolomance

31:20

Academy and the corset. That's going

31:22

to be what's available in in

31:24

in arena in arena. And with

31:26

Patch 32.2, the new and returning

31:28

player loaner decks will update to

31:30

include cards from the into the

31:32

Emerald Dream expansion, the main set,

31:34

not the mini set. The loan

31:36

decks will be available for this

31:38

expansion cycle will be Deaf Knight,

31:40

Druid, Mage, Paladine, Mage, Paladine, and

31:42

Shum, and Whirlock. I do not

31:44

believe that we have seen those

31:46

yet, but you can probably guess

31:48

what those are going to look

31:50

like. when they get released. Do

31:52

you think it'll be like blood

31:54

decay or hand buff? It could

31:56

be hand buff, it could be,

31:58

it could be Starship decay, it's

32:00

probably going to be some sort

32:02

of like a protosseur and Bumeage,

32:04

right? I mean, Paladin's probably going

32:06

to be a shanty Paladin, presumably.

32:08

I can't, I have no idea.

32:10

shaman, I have no idea. shaman,

32:12

I can't imagine they're going to

32:14

do like murmur shaman, but maybe,

32:16

it's fine. I don't know. I

32:18

mean, druids almost certainly imbue druid.

32:20

Like, that's almost certainly what that's

32:22

going to be. But again, we

32:24

don't know. We're just guessing. Okay.

32:26

So then we have some fairly

32:28

significant bug fixes, rules, updates, and

32:30

gave improvements. So one major one

32:32

is that the dark gift keyword

32:34

is being adjusted so that dark

32:36

gifts with keywords can't be applied

32:38

to minions that already have one

32:41

of those keywords. Oh, I like

32:43

that. Previously, darkest were only blocked

32:45

if fully redundant. So what this

32:47

means is that if you have

32:49

a minion in your hand with

32:51

charge, you will not be offered

32:53

a dark gift that gives it

32:55

charge. Or say it has elusive,

32:57

so there's like the like plus

32:59

two plus two and elusive dark

33:01

gift. If you had a minion

33:03

that was elusive previously, it could

33:05

still have been given that dark

33:07

gift because it still gets a

33:09

plus two plus two plus two.

33:11

but it's kind of lame because

33:13

the elusive isn't new. So now

33:15

if you if there's a minion

33:17

that's naturally elusive, it won't be

33:19

given the dark gift that gives

33:21

it elusive and plus two plus

33:23

two because that would be partially

33:25

redundant. I wonder the way they'll

33:27

do this like will it just

33:29

re-roll which minions is given that

33:31

gift or will it like shuffle

33:33

the minions in the three that

33:35

you're going to be shown to

33:37

so that like. I don't even

33:39

think it's that much. I think

33:41

it's just like, I think it's

33:43

just like these are the minions

33:45

and then this is the available

33:47

pool of things to choose from.

33:49

pick one, I think is what

33:51

it is. Yeah, I assume it

33:53

picks the minions first and then

33:55

a pickstart gifts for the minions.

33:57

Sure. Right, that it's, yeah, that

33:59

it's like, okay, these are the

34:01

minions, oh, that keyword is the

34:03

same, well, it has to get

34:05

one of these other gifts then.

34:07

Right, yeah, let's, the bag that

34:09

it's gonna pull out of, it's

34:11

gonna be smaller, right. So like,

34:13

this is really going to affect

34:15

divine shield Win Fury, most, because

34:17

that's the most, because that's the

34:19

biggest one. That's the biggest one.

34:21

That's the biggest one. That's the

34:23

biggest one. If you're a poor

34:25

soul, it's playing Walla Whorlock, you

34:27

want to be aware of that

34:29

and make sure that you don't

34:31

have, you want to get any,

34:33

any minions that have divine shield

34:35

or windfury out of your hand

34:37

before you play anything, it generates

34:39

a dark gift because that is,

34:41

you need divine shield to windfury

34:43

at some point and charges the

34:45

other one, obviously, but there aren't

34:47

that many minions with charge on

34:49

them, but. It doesn't matter what's

34:51

in your hand, it's true, sorry.

34:53

You're going to get off for

34:55

divine shield and wind fury less.

34:57

Is it basically what's going to

34:59

happen? I don't know how much

35:01

less. It's going to depend on

35:03

the individual pools for those dark

35:05

gifts. I don't know how many

35:07

legendary minions have divine shield and

35:09

wind fury on them. Certainly, if

35:11

you're building that, you want to

35:13

remove anything with divine shield or

35:15

wind fury, if you had it

35:17

for zavious purposes from your deck.

35:19

I mean, it's going to affect

35:21

just creature of madness the most,

35:23

right? Yeah. Because that's any three

35:25

drop, right? Yeah. And I don't

35:27

know what the odds are for

35:29

those having divide children. Winfuri, but

35:31

I'm sure there's, I mean, Winfuri,

35:33

not so much. Divine Shield seems

35:35

like something that would be, but

35:38

it only cares if it has

35:40

any of them, right? Right. So,

35:42

yeah. Some hidden odds that are

35:44

going to affect things that you're

35:46

not going to notice if you're

35:48

not looking for them and and

35:50

while a warlock is going to

35:52

be the one I mean again

35:54

while a warlock is not really

35:56

a deck but if you're playing.

35:58

in some sort of like a

36:00

tavern brawl or something like that.

36:02

At least we had the pre-release

36:04

brawl for Wallo. Yeah. So, and

36:06

we're not done with Wallo, by

36:08

the way. So, normal game rules

36:10

are, this is always good, we

36:12

have to start with normal game

36:14

rules are as the beginning of

36:16

the sentence. That's all we know

36:18

we're in trouble. Normal game rules

36:20

are that a card moving backwards

36:22

in a zone, such as from

36:24

the board to hand to deck,

36:26

loses its enchantment. While the wretched

36:28

now has a specific exception to

36:30

this role, if Walla the wretched

36:32

has moved from your hand to

36:34

the top of your decks due

36:36

to the Sweet Dreams Dark Gift,

36:38

which is the one that gives

36:40

it plus 4 plus 5, and

36:42

puts it on top of your

36:44

deck, Walla will now retain all

36:46

its dark gift enchantments, but not

36:48

other enchantments, and not any enchantments

36:50

if it is moved backwards in

36:52

a zone due to anything other

36:54

than its own effect. So basically,

36:56

Walla will not brick. If it's

36:58

in your hand and you pick

37:00

the put on top of your

37:02

deck dark gift, but it will

37:04

lose it if you move it

37:06

out of your hand for any

37:08

other reason. As someone who did

37:10

that one time and was like,

37:12

oh, yeah. I think it's a

37:14

good change. I would understand arguments

37:16

either way, right? It's just like,

37:18

this is just consistent with how

37:20

game rules work, but it's one

37:22

of those quality of life things

37:24

where it's like, yeah, everyone can

37:26

have that time where they do

37:28

it by accident and then they

37:30

don't do it again. Yeah. Or

37:32

they could just make it work

37:34

so that people don't screw up.

37:36

And also, you know, not everybody

37:38

is as tuned in as we

37:40

are and we're still making that

37:42

mistake, even though we know what

37:44

the normal rule is. If you

37:46

don't know what the normal rule

37:48

is, then you'd be pretty confused

37:50

and unhappy. We're not done by

37:52

the way because now we have

37:54

to talk about evolved rules again.

37:56

Why? So adjusted the evolved evolved

37:58

rules the full. rule is now,

38:00

when evolving, if a Minion

38:02

costs 10 or less, it is

38:05

capped at 10. When evolving, if a

38:07

Minion costs more than 10, it

38:09

evolves into a random Minion

38:11

of its same cost, which

38:13

could just be the same

38:15

Minion. When devolving, if

38:17

a result is not available, then

38:20

the Minion will continue

38:22

devolving until a result

38:24

is found. For instance.

38:26

devolving of 15 cost minion

38:28

would result in a 12 cost if there

38:30

was a 12 cost minion in

38:32

the pool, but no 13 cost minion.

38:35

So... Okay, so Caceless goes to Mountain

38:37

Giant. Yeah, but I mean, instead

38:39

of Caceless going to just another

38:41

Caceless, which I think is what

38:43

it did before. Uh-huh. But if

38:45

you try to evolve Caceless, it'll

38:48

just be another Caceless. Right.

38:50

No, it's going to be another 10

38:52

drop. No, that's what they just said. If

38:54

a minion costs more than 10, it evolves

38:56

into a random minion of its same cost,

38:59

which could just be the same minion. So

39:01

it could evolve into a fresh copy? Fresh

39:03

copy of itself. Yeah. So it'll heal itself,

39:05

basically. Evolve is just so

39:07

complicated. Just whatever. Something happens when

39:10

you involve stuff. There's no card

39:12

game. It doesn't matter what Evolve does

39:14

in that card game. There's no

39:16

card game where the Evolve mechanic

39:19

is not overly complicated and confusing

39:21

and confusing. Yeah. So, so, other changes,

39:23

Starship Peace, when launched

39:25

effects, will now always trigger

39:27

in a random order. I

39:29

think they were inconsistently random

39:31

before. Now they will be

39:33

fully random. So, you know, that mainly

39:36

affects, like, the, the Tarin stuff

39:38

where you're getting the bonus

39:40

effects before doing two damage

39:43

to all enemies and you

39:45

could get poisoned sometimes sometimes.

39:47

Right. So now that's going to be,

39:49

that's going to be completely random. That's

39:51

generally when it matters. But, you know, there

39:53

are other times that it can matter. So this

39:55

next one's in bold, by the way. So all

39:57

those ones that I just talked about, those were. those

40:00

weren't confusing enough or significant enough

40:02

to bold them. This one is.

40:04

So effects that have the same

40:06

resolution trigger will now always resolve

40:08

in time stamp order. This means

40:10

Briar Spawn Drake's effect will now

40:12

always trigger its own effect before

40:14

the return to deck effect given

40:16

to it by Cliffduff. So it

40:18

does now work the way that

40:20

you wanted it to and this

40:22

is not just for that particular

40:25

interaction. So you know any... Yeah,

40:27

sort of time stamp. We were

40:29

having all kinds of weird time

40:31

stamp order bugs, you know, end

40:33

of turn effect order things. But

40:35

now just it is. I assume

40:37

that this happens because like the

40:39

Briarspond Drake comes in with its

40:41

own effect and then it gets

40:43

the return to Drake effect given

40:45

to it by Cliff Dive. Anyway,

40:47

it works the way that you

40:49

as the person playing Cliff Dive

40:51

want it to. Yeah, it works

40:53

in a way that makes sense

40:55

to a human. You know, that's

40:57

that's most important. So yeah, you

41:00

could, you could consider putting briar

41:02

spondrakes into your cliff dive demon

41:04

hunters now. I don't know if

41:06

that's something that you want to

41:08

do, but it's something that you

41:10

can do and it'll, it'll do

41:12

what you expected to do. Also,

41:14

also bolded, made floppy hydro less

41:16

floppy, fixed the bug where it

41:18

kept enchantments other than its own

41:20

effect. So I'm presuming

41:22

that this means that you were

41:25

given a floppy, given a floppy

41:27

hydra off of the card, the

41:29

card that gets a dark gift

41:31

and on a three drop. That

41:34

seems like the most likely time

41:36

that this would happen. And if

41:38

you're, say, giving that plus four

41:40

plus five and on top of

41:42

your deck or charge, charge would

41:45

be hilarious, actually, because then you

41:47

just shuffle a bigger copy into

41:49

it every time that happens to

41:51

have charge. And then those guys

41:54

just get to go face. So

41:56

that's not going to happen anymore.

41:58

So do be aware of that

42:00

if you were abusing hydras. Also,

42:02

don't abuse hydras. They're adorable and

42:05

they don't serve it. So there's,

42:07

I'm looking to see what other,

42:09

there's a lot of bugs. Fixed

42:11

an issue where the Druid and

42:14

Bu counter would get cut off

42:16

on some mobile devices. We had

42:18

mentioned that. That was annoying, so

42:20

I'm glad that they fixed that.

42:22

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, fixed a

42:25

bug where cosplay contest and it

42:27

turned into ancient of your would

42:29

give the opponent its dormant effects.

42:31

That's kind of hilarious, but I

42:34

don't, you know. Mixed a bug

42:36

where amphibian spirit couldn't be copied

42:38

by effects like death growl. I

42:40

don't call that, I don't, that's

42:42

not a bug, that's a feature,

42:45

but that's neither here or there.

42:47

Yeah, so. Some of these, it's

42:49

like, how did they find this

42:51

out? Fixed a bug where Narainessooth

42:54

Fancy's fortunes would permanently transform into

42:56

cards that transform in hand each

42:58

turn. So if you were playing

43:00

Kamelios, I guess, in wild, with

43:02

Naraines, fancy, you just got a

43:05

Kamelios forever now? But not anymore.

43:07

Sure. Yeah, they're pretty. I mean,

43:09

they also did fix a very

43:11

important bug where the Druid and

43:14

Bew Plant Golan arts were in

43:16

the wrong order. So I'm glad

43:18

that they fixed that because that

43:20

would have been very impactful. Yeah.

43:22

Yeah. Or rather, these things will

43:25

be fixed when this goes live,

43:27

depending on when you're listening to

43:29

this, that may or may not

43:31

quite have happened yet. This will

43:34

be live on April 29th. Yes.

43:36

Which is Tuesday. So there's also

43:38

a. a new event that I'm

43:40

realizing right now that I didn't

43:42

pull an image of. So I'm

43:45

going to take three seconds apologies

43:47

chat. I'm going to go get

43:49

that real fast. So talk amongst

43:51

yourselves for a minute. So here

43:54

we go. Okay. All right. So

43:56

we have the defend a mirror

43:58

cell in-game event that just started

44:00

on Tuesday. This is a weird

44:02

one, because it's really a battlegrounds

44:05

focused. event, but the rewards are

44:07

tavern passes, hacks, and then signature

44:09

cards for instructed. Yeah, there's three

44:11

tokens for battlegrounds, but that is

44:14

all. There's no battlegrounds, portraits, there's

44:16

no strikes, there's just constructed cards.

44:18

So it's weird. So for the

44:20

first three stages, you get a

44:22

tavern ticket. which you can use

44:25

in arena or for the next

44:27

pre-release brawl. A into the Emerald

44:29

Dream Pack and a Battle Grounds

44:31

reroll token. So there's three sets

44:34

of those. And then the final

44:36

one is three signature cards or

44:38

constructed. But the quests are incentivizing

44:40

you to play battlegrounds like the

44:42

first quest is spend four mana

44:45

or battle, four hundred mana or

44:47

battlegrounds gold, but dragons. count twice,

44:49

presumably. I mean, I guess you

44:51

could play Zorimi Priest and maybe

44:54

count it. I don't know. I

44:56

mean, depending on how many games

44:58

you play, yeah, if you are

45:00

playing fewer games, you want to

45:02

get it through faster, and you

45:05

don't want to play battlegrounds, you

45:07

can play as a Rimi Priest.

45:09

Otherwise, you will get there if

45:11

you play more games. But then

45:14

the next one is play 20

45:16

games of arena or battlegrounds. So

45:18

that one you really have to

45:20

kind of go out of your

45:22

way if you don't normally play

45:25

arena or battlegrounds and the third

45:27

one is summon 200 minions in

45:29

arena or battlegrounds taught in divine

45:31

shield minions count two times. So

45:34

you know I don't know like

45:36

if you're only a constructive player

45:38

and you you care about these

45:40

rewards I mean like the signatures

45:42

are nice. Like maybe do you

45:45

may not finish it. But yeah

45:47

it's like you're gonna have to

45:49

commit to playing battlegrounds which. Depending

45:51

on how you feel about this

45:54

better, maybe you're going to. I

45:56

don't know. Or you're gonna play

45:58

arena, which is also the arena

46:00

piece, I think would be a

46:02

lot more interesting if the arena,

46:05

the new arena. mode was in

46:07

place and I think that they

46:09

probably designed this quest, this quest

46:11

line when they thought that arena

46:14

was going to be live with

46:16

32.2 and so it kind of,

46:18

it's a little different when you're

46:20

playing like old arena's last hurrah

46:22

instead of like the new arena

46:25

mode that was supposed to be

46:27

in this patch. Yeah, it will

46:29

have the new mini set cards

46:31

but that's not necessarily a ton

46:34

of cards. Yeah. Although Wicked in

46:36

The U Priest is apparently good

46:38

in arena. So. Yay. Yeah, random

46:40

stuff that costs less. I could

46:42

see that being better in arena.

46:45

Yeah. I mean, I can see

46:47

it. It makes sense. It's got

46:49

to be a better hero power

46:51

than what they're working with. Start

46:54

with an arena. So yeah. Okay.

46:56

I can buy it. So anyway.

46:58

So that quest is there. So.

47:00

you know you may be relying

47:02

on the dailies or you may

47:05

want to check out the new

47:07

battleground season in order to make

47:09

some headway on that if you

47:11

care about the signatures at the

47:14

end or you could just ignore

47:16

it if you want I'm sure

47:18

that the signatures will probably be

47:20

available for purchase in the shop

47:23

after the event ends they usually

47:25

are. Also we got a rare

47:27

update to the physical gear store

47:29

with hearstone merge which is that

47:31

is the definition of newsworthy this

47:34

is dog bites man. because we

47:36

do not often get new Heartstone

47:38

merch in the shop. So we

47:40

have a Heartstone established 2014, like

47:43

college logo style shirt. We've got

47:45

a shirt with a collection of

47:47

seven card food cardbacks. You've got

47:49

like cupcake, lemonade, pizza, ramen, pie.

47:51

It's a couple others. I don't

47:54

like grilled cheese. I can't really

47:56

quite see it. It's like a

47:58

bento box. maybe. Yeah.

48:00

So if you like the

48:02

food cart back, you can get that. There's also the a

48:06

metal style shirt

48:08

that's got Hearthstone in

48:10

a very metal font

48:12

with a la Rashi,

48:14

which is would not have

48:16

been on my bingo card

48:18

for the iconic, an iconic legendary

48:20

minion that would make it onto a T

48:22

shirt. But here we are.

48:24

But I guess he is very

48:26

metal. So I mean, ETC,

48:30

it's like right there. You know,

48:32

I know it's not the right expansion.

48:34

But like, if we're going to be metal,

48:36

like ETC is like, he's the metal

48:38

guy. Let's do that. But

48:41

anyway, so that's that's there. So those

48:43

are the those are three new shirts. There's

48:45

also Oh, there's more to there's an inter

48:47

into the Emeraldream logo with the card back

48:49

on the back. And there

48:51

is also two shirts with the

48:53

Shanshui, Naralex and

48:55

Teranda. So if you really

48:57

like the Teranda art, and

49:00

you want to spend more money on

49:02

Teranda, you could get you could wear

49:04

Teranda on your chest, which is I'm not

49:06

I'm not being facetious. I'm saying that is

49:08

a legitimate option. And I support you

49:10

in that endeavor. Obviously might

49:12

be a better choice than getting the

49:14

signature. It is actually

49:17

like the same price once you

49:19

get it shipped to you. And

49:21

you don't have to worry about whether it's playable to

49:23

wear it. So yeah, and it'll

49:25

be usable even

49:28

after Teranda rotates out of

49:30

standard. So, you

49:33

know, you know, that I'm not going

49:35

to tell you how to use your money.

49:37

This is not a financial advice podcast, but you

49:39

know, there's also a distressed a distressed Hearthstone

49:41

logo t shirt. And

49:43

you can also get the

49:45

varsity shirt in a pullover sweatshirt.

49:49

So those are like

49:51

the fact that we're talking about

49:53

like eight different products at once

49:55

is like more than I think

49:57

they've announced in like the past

49:59

years, like outside of like a

50:02

bliscon, I don't think I've seen this

50:04

big of a heartstone update to

50:06

the gear store in a while. So it is

50:08

notable. It's true. So, and I mean,

50:10

I'm not gonna, again, I'm not gonna

50:12

tell you that you should or

50:14

shouldn't spend money, but also they

50:16

probably respond to how well these things

50:18

sell, if you want to see more

50:20

of this, then it would be good

50:23

to jump. I actually, I actually

50:25

need to accord to the vort of

50:27

the varsity one. That reminds me.

50:29

So that is a that is news

50:31

ending with a little bit

50:34

of a different shop

50:36

update than usual but

50:38

and now With no further

50:40

ado Let's talk about rogue

50:57

All right, so as promised, we have

50:59

some rogue to talk about. We were

51:02

gonna also try to talk about protest

51:04

rogue, but then we changed our minds

51:06

because neither Edel nor I played

51:08

it, and Wicked played like three

51:10

games before the show and said, I'm

51:12

two, one, and I don't know what I'm

51:14

doing. Yeah. I mean, I am not the world's

51:17

foremost expert on rogue to begin

51:19

with. We've firmly established

51:21

this. And I will say that I

51:23

played a couple games before the podcast.

51:25

I went to in one. I could

51:27

not tell you how I did it.

51:30

There was one game that Edel was

51:32

spectating me that I was

51:34

playing against that Aviana Priest.

51:36

And I played the the Arcon into

51:38

a board that had two puppet

51:40

theaters on it. And I was

51:43

at like 22 Life or something

51:45

like that. And we were both

51:47

convinced that I was going to

51:49

die and then they just conceded.

51:51

And I don't think that that

51:53

was correct, because they had

51:55

16 damage just with two manna,

51:57

and before they did anything.

51:59

else, but they just apparently

52:02

had nothing else after that.

52:04

So yeah, but the it's

52:06

what's weird is that like

52:09

these are all kind of

52:11

different temporee decks, but the

52:13

protest one feels like it's

52:16

trying to do the same

52:18

things of the other two,

52:20

but it's also trying to

52:23

do like half of a

52:25

protest shell and it feels

52:27

like three decks in a

52:30

trench code, that that's. The

52:32

state of rogue is such

52:34

that you probably should run

52:36

Harbinger. The one we have

52:39

here, like, so there's a

52:41

few different lists in the

52:43

HSGuru link. The Maxibon pirate

52:46

list that I played a

52:48

bunch. Zacho made a point

52:50

on the podcast that like,

52:53

Pirate Rogue probably could just

52:55

also run Harbinger and Web.

52:57

Like you could take out

53:00

the toy boats, take out

53:02

the backstab, and like... one

53:04

other card, you know, I

53:07

did the two four pirate

53:09

that that buffs your pirates

53:11

when they attack. It's not

53:14

really a full pirate deck,

53:16

right? It's mostly just about

53:18

the location and the weapon

53:20

and the copying pirate. So

53:23

yeah, you could do that

53:25

and and just add in

53:27

harbingers and web of deception.

53:30

And I realized upon doing

53:32

that, that it was at

53:34

that point, almost the Ashamane

53:37

rogue. Yes, well, and to

53:39

that point, the S just,

53:41

in the rogue list that

53:44

they released today, they didn't

53:46

put like a regular pirate

53:48

rogue at all. They just

53:51

put Ashamine pirate rogue. Because

53:53

it is. just ashermain rogue

53:55

except for instead of like

53:57

creature of madness and And

54:00

like, Davis, you have Crystal Cove

54:02

and Water Cannon and, I mean,

54:04

you're running bargain bin buccaneer in

54:06

both of them, but like, you're

54:09

just running a few more

54:11

pirates, but you're still doing twisted

54:13

web weaver, you're still doing like,

54:15

like, a comet web of deception,

54:17

you're still doing shelladrousal

54:20

astromane and twin perfect

54:22

ziliacs, because that's another way

54:24

that you can corrupt your

54:26

shelladresal while stabilizing if

54:29

things have. gone poorly in

54:31

its late game. So it's

54:33

just a slightly different

54:35

shell of the same deck as the

54:37

Ashamain rogue, where

54:39

the Ashamain rogue instead

54:41

is running Creature of Madness

54:44

and Mixologist and

54:47

Savious. Yeah, basically pirate

54:49

rogue aims to be a bit

54:51

like a bit different in

54:53

its versatility, right? You

54:56

don't have the zilia X.

54:58

It has merit right, and

55:00

you have double of the

55:02

rating parties, you can make

55:04

sure you get your weapon,

55:06

but still very centered

55:09

on the location for five

55:11

fives. And you have wind

55:13

fury potential on

55:15

a single pirate because

55:17

of... Sailboat captain. Right,

55:20

exactly. And so you can

55:22

do crazy... lethals where you

55:24

play a shell addressill, you can

55:27

give something plus five plus five,

55:29

that is a pirate and you give

55:31

it wind fury, but a lot of

55:33

the time it's just like, oh I

55:35

stuck a five five, that's gonna hit

55:37

them. And if you have the hose

55:39

in, you know, then it gets plus

55:41

one plus one and then another plus

55:43

one from the second attack. So the

55:46

pirate rogue is, I think if you

55:48

prefer to sort of like have a

55:50

more concrete... Game plan.

55:53

You can do

55:55

that one and

55:57

go like, okay.

56:00

Now is go time. We stuck

56:02

a big five five, he hit

56:04

them with the wind fury and

56:06

try and get the blow burn

56:08

them out. And Marin is familiar,

56:10

right? He does Marin things. That's

56:12

sort of your, okay, this went

56:14

longer than intended sort of game

56:16

plan. Often, I think if it

56:18

comes to Marin, you just want

56:20

to pick the temple one, which

56:22

is the crown and sometimes not.

56:24

play wand because then you'll go

56:26

to fatigue faster. And you may

56:28

not even have hand space in

56:30

a deck like this too, like

56:32

hand space. It depends on the

56:34

build. Again, I don't know about

56:36

the, about this list. I know

56:38

the protos, the protos row just

56:40

seemed to always have just like

56:42

too many cards in hand and

56:45

like trying to draw three is

56:47

difficult at best. I mean the

56:49

other problem that I have with

56:51

the, I mean the problem with

56:53

the pot with the protos build

56:55

now is that it's just giving

56:57

up the tempo more end game

56:59

and the end game just doesn't

57:01

seem as good as just like,

57:03

hey, what if I just hit

57:05

them faster, which is not a

57:07

sense that I recognize comes out

57:09

of my mouth very often. But

57:11

like, in this case, it seems

57:13

like you're kind of sacrificing the

57:15

early game that can make the

57:17

lake game easier for you in

57:19

favor of like running Photon Cannon

57:21

and Artenis and then having to

57:23

run like for the Templars and

57:25

like that can get you there,

57:27

but it's also. like you're not

57:30

getting those kinds of early early

57:32

things early plays by you don't

57:34

have like space rock collector you

57:36

don't have the bargain bin buccaneers

57:38

or like any or even like

57:40

the harbiners felt like they were

57:42

harder to get down just because

57:44

you didn't maybe I was just

57:46

drawing poorly which is also possible

57:48

but it felt like that was

57:50

kind of a secondary game plan

57:52

as opposed to that's really your

57:54

primary tempo. I also could have

57:56

been mulliganing poorly because I didn't

57:58

know what I was doing. That's

58:00

also entirely possible. I do think

58:02

that basically rogue is in a

58:04

mulligan for harbinger

58:06

state. Like it's bicard

58:09

because and you keep

58:11

it and hope you

58:13

get your bounce effects

58:16

because it generates just

58:18

so much tempo to

58:20

get that down on

58:22

two and prep the

58:24

web, right? Web of

58:26

deception. Because then you

58:28

get, even if you get other bad

58:30

rules, you got your 4-4 stealth.

58:33

And yeah, if you have both. There

58:35

have been times where I, I have

58:37

not done this myself, but

58:39

I faced a rogue that just

58:41

went, it might even have been

58:43

on coin, even if it wasn't

58:45

on coin, just going, Harbinger,

58:48

step, replay, prep, whoever

58:50

deception. Just like, all right,

58:52

cool, you got me. Like, it's,

58:54

we're done here. There's this,

58:56

there's no clear that deals

58:59

with that that early in

59:01

the game, and certainly not

59:03

in the mirror. So, mirrors do

59:05

often come down to just like,

59:08

did you harbinger on to?

59:10

No, did they? Yes, well, go

59:12

next. Yeah. I mean, one thing

59:14

on Harbinger, if you just have

59:17

a web of deception.

59:19

Against some decks, you can just play the

59:21

harbinger on two and then web of deception

59:23

and on three, like if you're on the

59:25

play without the coin. It often lives. So

59:28

you do have to think about, you know, it

59:30

depends on the deck that you're facing, but

59:32

so you're facing like a pallet and they

59:34

don't have something on board, just harbinger. Yeah.

59:36

I learned that from watching my opponents do

59:39

it and then being able to do nothing

59:41

about it and then. they stepped at the

59:43

next turn. So also, if you have just

59:45

like Harbinger and Shadowstep in your hand, you

59:47

can just play the Harbinger again, unless you

59:49

need to hold him for like combo activation

59:51

on the next turn or something like that.

59:54

Right, which does come up, but if you've

59:56

got other stuff, then go ahead and play it.

59:58

It's just a two, three, that they have to go.

1:00:00

Also, if you play it, that

1:00:02

turn, you get to attack with

1:00:04

it for two damage, which is

1:00:06

better than not attacking with it

1:00:08

for two damage most of the

1:00:11

time. Yeah, exactly. And it's got

1:00:13

soft taunt. I mean, like, they're

1:00:15

not going to leave it up.

1:00:17

Yeah. I love that the sort

1:00:19

of next iteration hard runs. Oh

1:00:22

God, the rogue legendary. Ashaming? No,

1:00:24

no, no. Oh, Tao Tao. Yeah.

1:00:26

Tagas is actually good. in this

1:00:28

deck, in the Ashamain version. So

1:00:30

there's really, we're really talking about

1:00:33

like four decks, which we do

1:00:35

have in a deck sheet, and

1:00:37

I'll put the protest work in

1:00:39

there. So there's like protests for

1:00:41

Oak, right? There's pirate pirate rogue,

1:00:44

which is the one that like

1:00:46

doesn't run shelladresil, doesn't run Ashamain,

1:00:48

really is, like actually focus on

1:00:50

the pirate rogue, and if you're...

1:00:52

Oh, Maxibons has shelladresil, sorry, it

1:00:55

doesn't run Ashamain, and runs like

1:00:57

marin instead, like marin, does still

1:00:59

have to liege cell because the

1:01:01

card is crazy. And it doesn't

1:01:03

even need to be, uh, doesn't

1:01:06

necessarily need to be corrupted. Yeah,

1:01:08

but the the ashramine rogue is

1:01:10

adding like perfect twinsiliacs in addition

1:01:12

to the ashramine to be able

1:01:14

to have another thing to corrupt

1:01:17

it because it doesn't have to

1:01:19

be corrupted, but it sure would

1:01:21

be nice. So four decks, the

1:01:23

protos, which we're not talking about

1:01:25

very much, the pirate pirate pirate

1:01:28

one, uh, the Ashamain pirate one,

1:01:30

which is really Ashamain wearing a

1:01:32

pirate costume for Halloween rogue. So,

1:01:34

and in general, at higher ranks,

1:01:36

Ashamain rogue is a little better

1:01:39

positioned into the field, but it

1:01:41

really depends on what you're seeing.

1:01:43

It's not better positioned than demage,

1:01:45

I'll tell you that. for the

1:01:47

most part except for the sort

1:01:50

of classic pirate build is running

1:01:52

the harbinger and Everybody's got a

1:01:54

deal with, you know, everybody's running

1:01:56

bargain bin buccaneer except for protos.

1:01:58

And you have to think about

1:02:01

things like, how am I going

1:02:03

to combo this? So like you

1:02:05

don't necessarily want to play space

1:02:07

rock collector, which is the dranai

1:02:09

that discounts your next combo card.

1:02:12

Like on one, if you're going

1:02:14

to need him to get out

1:02:16

your bargainman buccaneer on three. Or

1:02:18

maybe on four after you, like.

1:02:20

Let's say you're playing Pirate Rogue,

1:02:23

you've played the Cove, and then

1:02:25

you have, like you coin out

1:02:27

Cove on too, great, but now

1:02:29

I have nothing to discount my

1:02:31

bargain in fucking air, unless you

1:02:34

have something like a prep something

1:02:36

or the space rock collector. Probably

1:02:38

your like best, you know, your

1:02:40

like ideal hand there is like,

1:02:42

prep, lucky comet, space rock collector,

1:02:45

then into... bargain and buccaneer, but

1:02:47

like that doesn't happen. I mean,

1:02:49

I guess you could go, you

1:02:51

could go, you could go Space

1:02:53

Rock Collector on one if your

1:02:56

plan is like coin location on

1:02:58

two into like twisted web weaver,

1:03:00

bargain and buccaneer on three, right?

1:03:02

Because it still would be, is

1:03:04

it, because Space Rock Collector's not

1:03:07

combo that turn, right? That's true.

1:03:09

Yeah. So if you have a

1:03:11

different one drop or something like

1:03:13

that, you can just bank that

1:03:15

discount. So there is a lot

1:03:18

of thinking ahead about mana and

1:03:20

kind of almost kind of like

1:03:22

shaman with overload but in a

1:03:24

different way. You know you're thinking

1:03:26

about when your discounts are going

1:03:29

to be helpful for the next

1:03:31

turn so you do want to

1:03:33

plan out your mana for next

1:03:35

turn. Obviously things will change with

1:03:37

your draw but just having a

1:03:40

sense of how that's going to

1:03:42

be my combo activator. I found

1:03:44

that yes you end up with

1:03:46

a too much draw situation once

1:03:48

you got the ball rolling. But

1:03:51

if you just, I had too

1:03:53

many games where I just ran myself

1:03:55

out of stuff and was top decking

1:03:58

because most of our draw kind of.

1:04:00

relies on other cards except dubious

1:04:02

purchase later on. It can draw your

1:04:04

cards even if you can't combo it. Like

1:04:06

that is an option for the card. You

1:04:09

don't have to combo it to play

1:04:11

it. Obviously that's a true statement, but

1:04:13

you can get into like a fixed mindset

1:04:15

about it. But like I found I

1:04:18

actually kept my twisted web, especially in

1:04:20

the at the pure ashamine

1:04:22

one that isn't running like toy boat

1:04:24

and webweaver and webweaver.

1:04:26

We have dubious purchase. You

1:04:28

might be able to draw a little

1:04:31

bit from like, mixologist.

1:04:33

What else? Like, you do want

1:04:35

your webweaver to actually draw you

1:04:37

stuff. I guess is what I want

1:04:39

to say on this deck.

1:04:41

Because you need to get

1:04:43

to your shelladresil ashramane ziliax.

1:04:45

You also have Zavius. Was

1:04:47

added for consistency in the

1:04:50

latest VS report. So I

1:04:52

was playing with that version.

1:04:54

So if you're playing the

1:04:56

straight ashermane you actually don't

1:04:58

have tons and tons of draw

1:05:01

you have a lot of sort of

1:05:03

generation and go back to my

1:05:05

hand but like you don't want

1:05:07

to just waste your web lever.

1:05:09

I do sort of prefer to be

1:05:11

on a bit more of the sparser

1:05:13

end than to be running the toy

1:05:15

boats as some things have because toy

1:05:17

boat is often either like

1:05:20

nothing or you're drawing

1:05:22

three cards because you're

1:05:24

doing a lucky bargainment

1:05:26

buccaneer or like a

1:05:28

turn with with sandbox

1:05:30

goundrel and it gets to

1:05:32

be too much but yeah dubious

1:05:35

purchases are a lot on

1:05:37

their own and I think

1:05:39

the the key with

1:05:41

twisted webweaver is we're so used

1:05:43

to like oh keep the draw engine

1:05:46

right but but it is

1:05:48

in fact not the draw

1:05:50

whenever you play a combo

1:05:52

or battle crime and was

1:05:54

it the the that field contact

1:05:57

it's not field contact

1:05:59

why you have to bring up repressed memories? Like why

1:06:01

do you need to do that to me? Field

1:06:04

Contact, you kept it because it

1:06:07

just worked with everything. Twisted Webweaver, in

1:06:09

fact, is a reload for like

1:06:11

the second half of the game after

1:06:13

you've played a bunch of one -ofs,

1:06:15

right? And so you're in the

1:06:17

second half of your deck where you've

1:06:19

got your second copies of everything.

1:06:21

And so you don't need to just

1:06:23

think of it in terms of

1:06:25

like, oh, I'm bouncing things and replaying

1:06:27

them, and that's how I'm activating

1:06:29

it because that's like only going to

1:06:31

get you one card in the

1:06:33

first half the game because it's only

1:06:35

getting you cards off the things

1:06:37

you've bounced. But once you're in the

1:06:39

second half of your deck, generally,

1:06:41

you're at your additional copies. It

1:06:44

does commonly work with bargain bin buccaneer

1:06:46

because you're looking to play like four

1:06:48

of those a game since you're pulling

1:06:51

them off Lucky Comet. We'll get into

1:06:53

Lucky Comet in a bit later. So

1:06:57

yeah, I basically

1:06:59

don't keep the Webweaver

1:07:01

and try not

1:07:04

to play it early

1:07:06

on unless you

1:07:08

know you need the

1:07:10

board presence because

1:07:14

it's like Duby's purchase is

1:07:16

the early card draw. Twisted Webweaver

1:07:18

is the late game card

1:07:20

draw. Yeah, I mean, and really

1:07:22

you want to be mulliganing

1:07:24

like looking at the mulligan impact

1:07:26

for just ashaming rogue as

1:07:28

an archetype on HSGuru. Harbinger of

1:07:31

the Blighted is like plus

1:07:33

5 .1 % mulligan impact, followed by

1:07:35

Shadow Step at 3 .5. It's

1:07:37

the card. It's the Keliseth,

1:07:39

right? You get to

1:07:41

run two of them. But all

1:07:43

the rogue decks right now, I think

1:07:45

unless you're not running it, in which

1:07:47

case maybe you should be. It's

1:07:51

just harbinger and step

1:07:53

or Web of Deception is

1:07:55

what you're looking for.

1:07:57

I have not determined yet.

1:08:00

whether Step and Web are a

1:08:02

keep, if you don't have Harbinger, I

1:08:04

lean towards no, because they like,

1:08:06

you need the Harbinger before they

1:08:08

like really matter in the early game.

1:08:11

I mean, that's what we can say. If

1:08:13

like if you if you need the

1:08:15

Harbinger for it and those are

1:08:17

not Harbinger, then you need to

1:08:19

toss those to get Harbinger, even

1:08:21

if you don't have the thing

1:08:23

that enables them. You have four

1:08:26

things that enable them and two

1:08:28

Harbinger, right. Yeah. So that is

1:08:30

one thing that I definitely was

1:08:32

doing wrong, starting to play this

1:08:34

deck, was I was not mulliganing

1:08:37

aggressively enough at all. If

1:08:39

you are constantly feeling like,

1:08:41

why do my opponents always

1:08:43

draw better than me? There's two

1:08:45

things behind this. Well, there's three

1:08:48

things. One, it is possible that

1:08:50

the universe does hate you.

1:08:52

It's probably not true. Well,

1:08:54

that's a positive uplifting message.

1:08:56

Maybe you're just cursed. Maybe

1:08:58

you know what you did.

1:09:00

I don't know. Have you angered

1:09:03

a witch today? More likely.

1:09:05

It's the product of

1:09:07

two things. One, confirmation

1:09:10

bias. You notice when

1:09:12

the opponent draws better

1:09:14

than you. More than the

1:09:16

reverse. And two, they might

1:09:18

be mulling better than you. Right.

1:09:20

Like you really will draw

1:09:22

better when you mulligan better.

1:09:25

So. It does help. But yeah,

1:09:27

Harbinger is definitely the

1:09:29

mulligan outlier in anything that

1:09:32

is running it. Lucky Comet,

1:09:34

so Lucky Comet is the

1:09:36

two-manna spell that says

1:09:38

discover a combo-minion, the

1:09:40

next one you play triggers

1:09:43

its combo twice. That's an

1:09:45

interesting card because there's

1:09:48

both to... There's not a

1:09:50

huge pool of minions to get

1:09:52

from it. And so you can

1:09:54

kind of plan ahead a little bit

1:09:56

and therefore work with your

1:09:58

twisted webweaver. You can also

1:10:01

plan ahead. So like lucky

1:10:03

comment in the pirate list

1:10:05

with Cove is really great

1:10:08

if you can line that

1:10:10

up with your buccaneer and

1:10:12

your Cove to get three

1:10:14

five five rushes. It's kind

1:10:17

of a build your own

1:10:19

shanty. Yeah. It's like the

1:10:21

way I clear shanty is

1:10:24

or even better pressure on

1:10:26

like turn four. I

1:10:29

prefer the location list in part

1:10:31

because you've got that for a

1:10:33

big play and it's just I

1:10:36

will go into this mode against

1:10:38

some slower things where I just

1:10:40

only click it or sorry only

1:10:43

swing with the weapon when I'm

1:10:45

making a 55 charge. because if

1:10:47

you know that they're gonna consistently

1:10:50

clear his stuff, you're like, well,

1:10:52

I'll at least guarantee I get

1:10:54

this charge damage. Yeah, it's considerable

1:10:57

amount of pressure when you're just

1:10:59

every other turn getting a 5-5

1:11:01

that you can sort of maneuver

1:11:04

to go face. Yes, and Talgath

1:11:06

can actually be a good pick

1:11:08

off of that. either defensively or

1:11:11

offensively if you want to maneuver

1:11:13

your 55 off of the weapon

1:11:15

to go face. And also if

1:11:18

you have to clear off a

1:11:20

board, so Talga, you know, he

1:11:22

gives you a backstab that does

1:11:25

four. He also empowers any of

1:11:27

your minions or your weapon to

1:11:30

clear stuff much more effectively. And

1:11:32

then they still have to get

1:11:34

rid of him. So it can

1:11:37

actually be pretty powerful. Do keep

1:11:39

in mind that it is only

1:11:41

undamaged enemy minions that take double

1:11:44

damage. One of my first games

1:11:46

with this deck, actually an early

1:11:48

game right before I started playing

1:11:51

the deck, I was like pretty

1:11:53

high. I mean, in an objective

1:11:55

sense. All of these are high

1:11:58

ranks, but I was like 500

1:12:00

and somebody played Talgath and then

1:12:02

tried to clear my eight by

1:12:05

doing a backstab on it and

1:12:07

then running in their face with

1:12:09

a weapon that had three attack

1:12:12

and then it didn't die. And

1:12:14

they emoted Oops. Which, yep. I

1:12:16

did not emote back at them

1:12:19

because I didn't want to. They

1:12:21

know what they did at that

1:12:23

point. You didn't need to rub

1:12:26

it in. Yeah. They already know.

1:12:28

I had faced somebody like the

1:12:30

game before where I did something

1:12:33

equivalently didn't think it through. You

1:12:35

know, the card explains the card

1:12:37

type of thing. And I said,

1:12:40

oops. And my opponent said, thank

1:12:42

you not once, but twice. And

1:12:44

I was like, really? Yeah. I

1:12:47

a bunch of times have like,

1:12:49

like, like, I didn't want that

1:12:51

to be a 5-5. I really

1:12:54

wanted either the 5-5 charge or

1:12:56

the, you know, a copy of

1:12:58

5-5s. Yeah. Yeah. There are lots

1:13:01

of little ordering things. You have

1:13:03

to play, you know, the scoundrel

1:13:05

right before the thing you're going

1:13:08

to discount. You can think of,

1:13:10

so the mini discounts, essentially discount

1:13:12

something by 2, because it discounts

1:13:15

it by 3, but it costs

1:13:17

1, unless... It was discounted from

1:13:19

some other thing. So if you

1:13:22

want to use it to play

1:13:24

Ashamine or Ziliaks, really you're doing

1:13:26

that on seven unless you have

1:13:29

a coin. But do you keep

1:13:31

in mind that if you're doing

1:13:34

that and you care about corrupting

1:13:36

shelladrasil, it will not. Actually, it

1:13:38

will. Oh, will it? It will

1:13:41

still, it will still, because the

1:13:43

shelladrasil costs four, while the ashamine

1:13:45

costs six. Oh, because it technically

1:13:48

discounts everything in your hand, right?

1:13:50

Okay, yeah. Yes, until you play

1:13:52

something, it discounts everything in your

1:13:55

hand. So that's actually a great

1:13:57

way to get the shelladresil online

1:13:59

early. Sometimes I will save the

1:14:02

mini-disc scoundrel if

1:14:04

an earlier ashamain or often

1:14:06

at that point I need an

1:14:08

earlier ziliacs to just not die

1:14:10

and heal up and then I'll

1:14:13

have shelladrisil to

1:14:15

get back in the game or win

1:14:17

the game after that. Oh yeah. Another

1:14:19

order thing to be careful of

1:14:21

is you can go prep and

1:14:23

then scoundrel. You cannot

1:14:26

scoundrel and then prep.

1:14:28

Yes, so the prep will

1:14:30

wait until your next spell

1:14:32

you can play any minions

1:14:34

you want in between

1:14:36

But the scandal will

1:14:38

discount anything and of course

1:14:41

There is the the name of our

1:14:43

podcast coin concede you do

1:14:45

not prep and then coin

1:14:48

You coin and then prep

1:14:50

the oldest rogue mistake.

1:14:52

I was actually I've played

1:14:54

a little enough rogue that

1:14:56

I I had like an early thing where

1:14:58

I wanted to coin out a

1:15:00

harbinger and then prep a web

1:15:02

of deception, and I had to

1:15:05

very consciously be like, okay, we're

1:15:07

doing this in the right order.

1:15:09

Coin, harbinger, prep, web of

1:15:11

deception. Here we go. Which is

1:15:13

a really good start. Oh, by

1:15:15

the way, speaking of harbinger. Goku

1:15:17

and the discord made this suggestion,

1:15:20

and I think he is right

1:15:22

here. Just make sure that you

1:15:24

pause after you do your harbinger

1:15:26

to make sure you didn't get

1:15:28

a doomsayer or a Lord Walker Cho

1:15:31

and you don't just like continue

1:15:33

with your turn. Yep. Yeah, there

1:15:35

definitely been times where it's like,

1:15:38

oh, all right, doomsayer. So how

1:15:40

am I going to use that

1:15:42

for initiative next turn or charge

1:15:44

next turn? I think there was, I

1:15:47

can't remember if it was schwall

1:15:49

or who was saying that they.

1:15:51

had one of those openings where they had

1:15:53

two shadow steps and harbinger. So they're going

1:15:55

to have like the insane double shadow step

1:15:57

harbinger, but the first one gave them doomsday.

1:15:59

So then they actually stepped the doomsayer.

1:16:02

Yeah, that's where I was thinking

1:16:04

that like, yeah. And then actually

1:16:06

that it turned out to be

1:16:08

useful later, clear aboard. So. Yeah,

1:16:10

you have to stop and think

1:16:12

about it before you play your

1:16:14

second shadow step on the on

1:16:16

the Harvinger. Yeah, like I guess

1:16:18

another option would be to just

1:16:20

sort of, if it's on the

1:16:22

first one, anyway, it's sacrifice. that

1:16:25

and and and just say like

1:16:27

well you know this means that

1:16:29

I could I can definitely take

1:16:31

initiative next turn and next turn

1:16:33

I replay the zero cost harbinger

1:16:35

and step again depends on what

1:16:37

you're playing against right like if

1:16:39

you're playing against another tempo deck

1:16:41

then that's probably fine if you're

1:16:43

playing against like a death night

1:16:45

that's probably not the play because

1:16:47

like they're thrilled that you're taking

1:16:49

a turn off and that means

1:16:51

they can just draw or just

1:16:53

like Twitter thumbs or whatever that

1:16:56

they're going to do and not

1:16:58

have to worry about having to

1:17:00

clear your stuff. Yeah, that's one

1:17:02

where you do need to put

1:17:04

on some more pressure. So what

1:17:06

you're doing to win with, so

1:17:08

what you're doing to win with,

1:17:10

so what you're doing to win

1:17:12

with the pirate rogue is like

1:17:14

the straight pirate rogue. You were

1:17:16

doing pirate rogue stuff, you're making

1:17:18

five fives, you're kind of got

1:17:20

a hybrid of stuff, you're... trying

1:17:22

to do the pirate thing, but

1:17:24

you're a little bit less likely

1:17:26

to win just through the pirate

1:17:29

thing because you have these other

1:17:31

cards in your deck, but then

1:17:33

those other cards in your deck

1:17:35

give you an alternate game plan.

1:17:37

I feel like the specific thing

1:17:39

for me that I notice is

1:17:41

not having the wind fury pirate.

1:17:43

And it is tempting to maybe

1:17:45

I should just try adding that

1:17:47

because there's a couple of flex

1:17:49

slots, you know, could could be

1:17:51

worth it even without sort of

1:17:53

some of the other things that

1:17:55

that... make that particularly good. A

1:17:57

5-5 windfuries is a lot of

1:18:00

the time. It is, yeah, like

1:18:02

an extra five damage. If you're

1:18:04

playing the straight Ashamade Rogue, this

1:18:06

was, I think, the other thing

1:18:08

that took me a while to

1:18:10

get used to, like, how am

1:18:12

I winning with this thing? And

1:18:14

it does kind of depend on

1:18:16

what you're facing. So if you

1:18:18

have the great harbinger start and

1:18:20

you can just kind of smirk

1:18:22

him down, great. Other times, that's

1:18:24

just kind of keeping the early

1:18:26

board from spiraling from spiraling to

1:18:28

far out of control. you're winning

1:18:31

with shelladresil and or you just

1:18:33

play their own deck at them

1:18:35

better than they played it at

1:18:37

you. Uh-huh, rogue. Okay. If they

1:18:39

play Kill Jaden, Edel had a

1:18:41

good point here. You can wait

1:18:43

until after they kill Jaden and

1:18:45

then get a bunch of cheap,

1:18:47

darnant demons because they will be

1:18:49

left. Honestly, I think that is

1:18:51

sort of the way for me

1:18:53

to kill warlocks is... you know,

1:18:55

assuming that they have the stuff

1:18:57

in time, right? Because Plan A

1:18:59

is like, we'll try and pressure

1:19:01

and hope they don't have ancient

1:19:04

of lore. And, you know, maybe

1:19:06

you just get them. But in

1:19:08

particular, the the Starship ones are

1:19:10

a little more resilient, right? And

1:19:12

I've mostly been seeing the Starship

1:19:14

ones. They are quite, quite sturdy.

1:19:16

and if they are able to

1:19:18

land the cursed whatever on a

1:19:20

big star ship that can be

1:19:22

lights out if you don't like

1:19:24

shuffle it into their deck or

1:19:26

otherwise have a way of dealing

1:19:28

with it where they don't get

1:19:30

in the armor or get the

1:19:32

copies rather. So I often found

1:19:35

myself stepping ziliacs both to sort

1:19:37

of keep me in it and

1:19:39

have more clears than the deck.

1:19:41

often has. Don't be wrong, you

1:19:43

still spend one or two on

1:19:45

harbinger if you can, but Ziliac's

1:19:47

is not good for them to

1:19:49

eternal layover. It's the only thing

1:19:51

you have that's bad for them

1:19:53

to eternal layover because they come

1:19:55

back with divine shields. So even

1:19:57

if they can ping those off...

1:19:59

off, they either have to spend

1:20:02

multiple things to clear

1:20:04

or just accept that

1:20:06

they're going to be leaving

1:20:08

six ones and then you can

1:20:10

bounce and like be able to

1:20:12

have more of that. And then yeah,

1:20:15

Ashamain, post, kill Jade,

1:20:17

and usually if you get to

1:20:19

do that, I think you win,

1:20:21

especially if it's been a couple

1:20:24

of turns because... The

1:20:26

demons are huge and you're getting like

1:20:28

a full hand of them and so

1:20:30

the odds that you you just get

1:20:33

to play a bunch of free Big

1:20:35

demons for like a huge board swing

1:20:37

after you've already run them out

1:20:39

of clears because you can do

1:20:41

that with the location and

1:20:44

bargain bin buccaneers It

1:20:46

just makes sure Ciceless has

1:20:48

been played yeah Then yeah, you just

1:20:50

they can't deal with it and if they

1:20:52

do they do they do they do

1:20:54

they do you then have the more

1:20:56

expensive things to play in the next

1:20:58

turn. And sometimes those are things like

1:21:00

Yolidari Inquiser, which we're

1:21:02

a weapon class, we can use that.

1:21:05

Yeah, just pay attention to what the

1:21:07

demons are, please. Because some of them

1:21:09

will hit you in the face. And you do

1:21:11

want to just like look at them

1:21:14

first before you play them, because it's

1:21:16

especially when you're doing a turn like

1:21:18

that where you don't have a lot

1:21:20

of time and you're going to be tempted

1:21:22

to just like, Take five seconds and

1:21:24

look at them and make sure none

1:21:27

of them are going to hit you

1:21:29

in the face, or four enough that

1:21:31

it's going to matter. Yeah. That also

1:21:33

makes me think about, so with

1:21:35

the Harbinger, Harbinger is your best hit

1:21:38

for bounce effects in the early

1:21:40

and like early midgame, but if it's

1:21:42

getting late, it still can build

1:21:44

you aboard, but some decks don't

1:21:46

really care about two drops late game,

1:21:48

like a lot of decks don't really

1:21:50

care at that point. You might be

1:21:52

better off saving your steps

1:21:54

for Ziliaks, for

1:21:57

Ashamain, for either

1:21:59

and I like bargain with Buckineer,

1:22:01

right, is also a good step

1:22:03

candidate, especially if you're running the

1:22:05

co-version. Sometimes even if you're not, Talgath

1:22:08

in a pinch, like, the later

1:22:10

it is, the more you're thinking about,

1:22:12

is there something else I want

1:22:14

to step out? Also, if you whiffed

1:22:16

on your harbinger, and you've got

1:22:19

nothing better to do than a web

1:22:21

of deception, like, for somewhere to get

1:22:23

a four or four stealth, and

1:22:25

maybe play something else again, like you

1:22:28

can, you can, you can do

1:22:30

that, you can do that. sometimes you

1:22:32

with. So, uh, the Ashamain rogue

1:22:34

does teach you how to play every

1:22:36

other deck. It's like, it's like, it's

1:22:39

like, it's like playing thought steel

1:22:41

priest back in the day, right? Like,

1:22:43

you just learn what everybody else

1:22:45

is doing. So the more you know

1:22:47

about other decks interactions, unless you fall

1:22:50

into the traps of the other

1:22:52

decks interactions, um, I also found that

1:22:54

I tried... to, unless I had

1:22:56

kind of a specific sense, because if

1:22:58

you're getting most of a hand

1:23:00

of cards from Ashamain, you kind of

1:23:03

know the type of thing you're likely

1:23:05

to get from each different opponent.

1:23:07

And sometimes I would try to play

1:23:09

shelladrousal first if I had already

1:23:11

corrupted it from Ziliak's, because the Ashamain

1:23:14

was going to clog up my

1:23:16

hand for a while, particularly with a

1:23:18

shelladrasil. And then I had like a

1:23:20

handful of corpse explosions, but I

1:23:22

just like couldn't get out of my

1:23:25

hand. That's hilarious. I did eventually

1:23:27

win the game. They did actually eventually

1:23:29

come in handy. But I was the

1:23:31

one with big stuff on the

1:23:33

board. I didn't want to like corpse

1:23:36

explosion in a way. So I

1:23:38

had to wait a really long time

1:23:40

before I had enough slots to

1:23:42

play shelladrous. So you can play shelladresyl

1:23:44

anyway and just take the risk. But

1:23:47

versus a death night, I was

1:23:49

like I don't want to not hit.

1:23:51

the important stuff here. So yeah,

1:23:53

but they're two men of corpse explosions.

1:23:56

So like they're pretty easy to

1:23:58

squeeze in. and then build pressure behind,

1:24:00

if, you know, particularly when people do

1:24:02

their ceaseless turn, that they're hoping

1:24:04

for a big swing there. That is

1:24:07

exactly what it turned out to

1:24:09

be useful for. And because you're not

1:24:11

a death knight, you have not been

1:24:13

paying corpses for things this whole

1:24:15

time. So even though you're a rogue,

1:24:18

you have a decent number of

1:24:20

corpses, so I just cleared it. That's

1:24:22

fine for like the first corpse

1:24:24

explosion. Like the third and the fourth

1:24:26

might not. Yeah, I also had gotten,

1:24:29

I got like three corpse explosions,

1:24:31

two of the leach card that draws

1:24:33

to, which is great, except I

1:24:35

had their hand space. Something else that

1:24:37

drew, like a chill falling down

1:24:39

or something. Yeah, I guess you do

1:24:42

want to be cognizant of like how

1:24:44

many cards the opponent has left,

1:24:46

because if they only have three cards,

1:24:48

you're going to get a lot

1:24:50

of duplicates. But if they have like...

1:24:53

10 or something you can get

1:24:55

more diverse stuff. And if you're using

1:24:57

Deck Tracker you can kind of guess

1:24:59

at what those three cards are,

1:25:01

right? Not just that they only have

1:25:04

three cards, but you can say

1:25:06

like what haven't I seen yet or

1:25:08

what haven't I seen two of yet

1:25:10

at that point? I mean, you

1:25:12

know, mine is however much they have

1:25:15

in their hand, like obviously you're

1:25:17

not going to know what's in hand

1:25:19

versus deck, but you can kind

1:25:21

of get. Like these are the things

1:25:24

I can expect to get. We

1:25:28

don't actually have as many good

1:25:30

ways to take advantage of this

1:25:32

as the paladin does, but it

1:25:34

costs less for us. Well, you

1:25:36

also have prep, right? So. And

1:25:38

you have the other spells from

1:25:40

the paladin that all caused zero

1:25:42

now. So that's mostly what I

1:25:44

found I was using, because we

1:25:46

don't have a lot of spells

1:25:48

that are better doubled, because we're

1:25:50

not running a vicerate anymore and

1:25:52

stuff like that. If you if

1:25:54

you prep with Vanessa, does it

1:25:56

discount your next spell by four?

1:25:58

It sure does. Oh boy. Yeah,

1:26:00

that's gross. That's good with dubious purchase.

1:26:02

Yeah, unless you have no hand space

1:26:04

in there. But if you played everything

1:26:06

else that was zero cost in your

1:26:08

hand and then you do a zero cost

1:26:11

dubious purchase. Yeah, you draw six cards

1:26:13

and kill two things. Yeah, seems good. Seems

1:26:15

good. Against a Pali. Yeah, it's not

1:26:17

a good match at first in general, but

1:26:19

that is a hilarious thing that can happen

1:26:21

if you have managed to live that

1:26:23

long. Yeah, well, and it doesn't seem like

1:26:25

you with them being able to like tutor

1:26:28

highest cost things. I suppose if

1:26:30

you did the, you know, turn

1:26:32

six, Ashamain and somehow got their

1:26:34

shelladresil and Lanesa, do you

1:26:37

have a prep? You could, like,

1:26:39

prep, or with Lanesa out,

1:26:41

prep, it would do double, and

1:26:43

because it was their shelladresil,

1:26:45

so it's already discounted by

1:26:48

three, it would then be

1:26:50

free, and it would double

1:26:53

shelladresil. But again, handspaced, you probably

1:26:55

wouldn't even get all the stuff.

1:26:57

You probably wouldn't even get it.

1:26:59

I think I did use it once

1:27:02

or I either I used it or I had an

1:27:04

opponent use it with their own shelladricell.

1:27:06

So then they got a double of

1:27:08

the deal five to all enemies. But as

1:27:10

a, as a paladin, you try to kill

1:27:13

them before they're doing shenanigans

1:27:15

like that and that's often

1:27:17

effective. Paladin is not our

1:27:19

favorite matchup. I will say. The

1:27:21

direction that Paladin has gone

1:27:24

I think in response

1:27:26

to the rogues Can be very

1:27:28

brutal and so watch out for

1:27:30

the aura that taxes spells.

1:27:33

Yeah, or of resistance.

1:27:35

Yeah, because like it's one

1:27:37

thing for them to do it

1:27:39

in the early game to slow

1:27:41

you down the scarier thing is

1:27:43

they wait do it as part

1:27:45

of a Lanesa pop-off. So all

1:27:48

your stuff costs two more

1:27:50

and and they have also

1:27:52

buffed Lenessa to be huge.

1:27:54

Basically it's just like they set up

1:27:56

the I have a bunch of things

1:27:59

that you now can't kill because

1:28:01

you you everything costs to more

1:28:03

and so then they get to

1:28:05

stick Lanesa and kill you the

1:28:07

next turn. It's tough. I did

1:28:10

one time as a paladin. I

1:28:12

can't remember why I must have

1:28:14

had a bunch of coins but

1:28:16

not much else in my hand.

1:28:18

I played Lanesa coin coin resistance

1:28:21

ora resistance ora and like that

1:28:23

was my hand but they left.

1:28:25

Because it was costs four more

1:28:27

for all of their spells. And

1:28:30

it's really a race to the

1:28:32

bottom because there's a rank one

1:28:34

Ashmain rogue list running customs enforcer.

1:28:36

Oh my god. Because it's good

1:28:39

in the mirror too, right? It

1:28:41

affects coins from metal detector and

1:28:43

a lot of people aren't doing

1:28:45

the pirate one that I'm doing.

1:28:47

They're running metal detectors in Ashmain

1:28:50

rogue. And also, you know, Creature

1:28:52

of Madness stuff, Lucky Comet stuff,

1:28:54

Halghath, Backstabs, the F-main things, all

1:28:56

the shelladresil spells. And of course

1:28:59

in Paladin you're getting divine brew,

1:29:01

everything past the first one, and

1:29:03

all the sunscreens are getting an

1:29:05

extra two costs. It's also good

1:29:08

against Druid. Because Druid's just generating

1:29:10

a bunch of garbage also. So...

1:29:12

Yeah, that rank one Ashmaine robe

1:29:14

as to the customer's enforcer is

1:29:16

a little spooky. It's also an

1:29:19

exeffress, which I am critical of,

1:29:21

but I did die to it

1:29:23

once because they managed to, they

1:29:25

had two minions in play. And

1:29:28

I maybe could have cleared one,

1:29:30

but decided for more face damage.

1:29:32

And they managed with like bouncing

1:29:34

the one cost scoundrel thing to

1:29:37

play bloodlust and Savichor in the

1:29:39

same turn. That'll do it. Yeah.

1:29:41

Oops. And that is also, you

1:29:43

know, that is them thinking well

1:29:45

about their... discounts planning ahead to

1:29:48

the next turn. You definitely want

1:29:50

to plan ahead for that. And

1:29:52

then if you're going to play

1:29:54

Ashamain, you play that right at

1:29:57

the beginning. You know that the

1:29:59

term before. I'm playing Ashme. And

1:30:01

you play it because you're going

1:30:03

to need a second to parse

1:30:06

all the cards you just got

1:30:08

in your hand. And you need

1:30:10

to play at least one of

1:30:12

them to clear a hand space.

1:30:14

And probably you're playing several. Although

1:30:17

you don't necessarily, you don't have

1:30:19

to play them all right away

1:30:21

right away. I did end up

1:30:23

enjoying myself eventually. It was a

1:30:26

learning curve because I'm not used

1:30:28

to playing rogue, but I think

1:30:30

I kind of decided I'm going

1:30:32

to learn Ashamain rogue. I think

1:30:35

if I play just the straight

1:30:37

pirate, it'll probably be a little

1:30:39

bit more in my comfort zone.

1:30:41

But I'm glad that I play

1:30:43

the Ashamain because I have a

1:30:46

better sense of how it works.

1:30:48

And if you see something a

1:30:50

lot... You think you kind of

1:30:52

know how it plays, it's different

1:30:55

if you have the collection to

1:30:57

play it, it's good to actually

1:30:59

play it and just get a

1:31:01

sense of it. And there's lots

1:31:04

of funny things that can happen.

1:31:06

I got a lorwalker, Cho once

1:31:08

off a harbinger, but I somehow

1:31:10

didn't have any spells in my

1:31:12

hand and my opponent couldn't clear.

1:31:15

They finally killed it off for

1:31:17

me. This went on for several

1:31:19

turns. I just didn't play spells

1:31:21

and for some reason this actually

1:31:24

kind of worked out. Or maybe

1:31:26

I played like a coin or

1:31:28

something from a metal detector because

1:31:30

I was like, fine, have a

1:31:33

coin. It's okay. They finally like

1:31:35

traded it off. They probably should

1:31:37

have just played their clear and

1:31:39

then I got a clear and

1:31:41

then moved on with their life.

1:31:44

I just imagine you playing that

1:31:46

coin and saying, here's a tip,

1:31:48

stay in school. Well. I think

1:31:50

that's that's going to do it

1:31:53

for a rogue coverage. Again, I'm

1:31:55

sure we have more expert rogue

1:31:57

players in the discord somewhere, but

1:31:59

if you are. are curious about

1:32:02

the archetype I think this can

1:32:04

get she started. Anyway, we have

1:32:06

many folks we'd like to thank.

1:32:08

Check at our thanks section on

1:32:10

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1:32:37

head on over to a shop

1:32:39

at shop.com. Going to seats. I

1:32:42

will coin conceit. I just finished

1:32:44

a book by called Him to

1:32:46

Dionysus, or the Him of Dionysus,

1:32:48

by the author Natasha Pully. I've

1:32:51

read a bunch of her works.

1:32:53

She's best known for the watchmaker

1:32:55

of filigree street. She does a

1:32:57

bunch of like historical... and or

1:33:00

fantasy and or sci-fi situation with

1:33:02

the interesting world usually based on

1:33:04

research to some extent and then

1:33:06

like a queer romance with a

1:33:09

main character and then a sort

1:33:11

of supernatural maybe morally gray love

1:33:13

interest and all the books kind

1:33:15

of have that set up but

1:33:17

then they're all very different and

1:33:20

everything else and this one It's