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Fly Emirates. Fly better. better. But

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evidently this officer was building

1:14

a training tape and it was

1:16

a textbook attack on the

1:18

United States and he puts it

1:21

up on the cabinet. top of

1:23

the cabinet and the new team

1:25

comes in and loads that darn

1:27

tape in there and it allowed

1:30

that message to go out and

1:32

of course man that was that

1:34

was Harry. This is Cold War

1:37

conversations if you're new here you've

1:39

come to the right place to

1:41

listen to first-hand Cold War history

1:44

accounts. Do make sure you follow

1:46

us in your podcast app so

1:48

that you don't miss out on

1:51

future episodes. In this episode I

1:53

speak with Jim, a former

1:55

Minuteman missile officer who served

1:57

with the US Air Force.

1:59

The episode Jim shares first-hand

2:01

accounts of life in the

2:03

launch control centre. We also

2:06

discuss false alarms, intense simulations

2:08

in emergency procedures, enabling you

2:10

to gain a profound understanding

2:12

of the pressure and the

2:14

seriousness of the role. Jim

2:16

also reflects on the gravity of turning

2:19

the keys to launch missiles and the

2:21

sobering reality of what that would mean

2:23

for humanity. I'm delighted to

2:25

welcome Jim to our Cold

2:27

War conversation. I started out

2:29

in the Air Force as a

2:32

public affairs officer, so I published

2:34

a newspaper and wrote speeches, gave

2:36

speeches, based tours, things like that.

2:38

I was trained as a journalist

2:40

and I could see the Vietnam

2:42

War ending and I figured I

2:44

needed to get my sweaty trigger

2:47

finger on something more than a

2:49

typewriter. So I volunteered for missile

2:51

duty now back in... 1971, when

2:53

I did this, the draft was

2:55

still on. I had two brothers

2:58

that served in Vietnam, and they

3:00

both recommended to avoid the experience.

3:02

So I decided to give a

3:05

go. 80% of the misleers back

3:07

in those days were what we

3:09

call volunteers. They were non-volunteers. Okay.

3:11

But I was really anxious to

3:14

get into something besides the career

3:16

field that I was in. And

3:18

I took a liking to it.

3:20

A lot of responsibility. Very young

3:23

people. Misileers themselves were. early

3:25

mid-twenties and the security

3:27

police and the maintainers

3:29

were all younger than

3:31

us, which is pretty

3:34

phenomenal. The amount of

3:36

responsibility they had handling

3:38

nuclear weapons and doing it

3:40

safely over that 60-year period of

3:42

time is just phenomenal. I retired

3:44

in 1988, so I've been a

3:47

retiree for a long time, ran

3:49

a business in Rapid City for

3:51

27 years. and did some other

3:53

crazy stuff along the way. But

3:55

I started with the park here

3:57

about 14 years ago. I can imagine.

3:59

the selection process for missileers

4:01

was quite rigorous? Could you just

4:04

tell me what that process was

4:06

like? Well it was and then

4:08

in some ways it was kind

4:11

of mundane. You had to have

4:13

a top secret clearance. So to

4:16

get that obviously the The federal

4:18

officers came through your neighborhood and

4:20

talked to your Sunday school teachers

4:23

and your neighbors. I'm just glad

4:25

I never got caught from some

4:27

of the stuff I did as

4:30

a kid. But once that was

4:32

done and they figured you were

4:34

qualified for that, then they would

4:37

send you to training at Vandenberg

4:39

Air Force Base in California. And

4:42

that, depending on the system you're

4:44

going into, I think I was

4:46

in the next to the last

4:49

Minuteman One class. So I saw

4:51

Minuteman One for two years with

4:53

the old B missile. And then

4:56

the Minuteman Modernize, which had the

4:58

F missile, it was an upgrade,

5:00

more reliable, more accurate, a little

5:03

bit bigger warhead. We carried a

5:05

1.2 megaton warhead, whereas the one

5:08

had a 1 megaton. But the

5:10

modernize was an easier system to

5:12

get along with nuclear war with

5:15

the old Minuteman One system. could

5:17

be real real challenging due to

5:19

some of the limitations some of

5:22

which I can go into and

5:24

some I can't but better weapon

5:26

system and faster faster reaction much

5:29

faster getting getting those birds out

5:31

of the ground so after about

5:34

I think it was about a

5:36

nine-week course nowadays I think they

5:38

go for another four or five

5:41

weeks beyond that because it's a

5:43

more complex system They got what

5:45

they call the react system now

5:48

where they can retarget the missiles

5:50

from the launch control center, whereas

5:52

we had a system where we

5:55

had eight preloaded targets, one primary

5:57

target in seven backups for maintenance

6:00

purposes during peacetime. So we say...

6:02

on a primary target day to

6:04

day, we didn't have to worry

6:07

about targeting anything. So it made

6:09

for a lot faster, faster reaction.

6:11

We'll walk through what emergency water

6:14

sequence ran like later on if

6:16

you choose. Yeah, like to go

6:18

through that. I mean, were there

6:21

any sort of like psychiatric evaluations?

6:23

No. No, we were under the

6:26

PRP, the personnel reliability program. We

6:28

called it the cooks will not

6:30

handle nukes program. So anything as

6:33

mundane is getting medications from the

6:35

doc, Air Force doctors, we went

6:37

to the flight surgeons, not to

6:40

the regular docs, and if they

6:42

put you on anything that made

6:44

you a little squirt, they'd pull

6:47

your PRP until you were off

6:49

that medication. If you couldn't get

6:52

off of it, they'd reassign you

6:54

into other duty. But usually it

6:56

was a matter of getting better

6:59

in a week or so and

7:01

you'd be back out of office

7:03

duty if you'd been there or

7:06

out of the hospital or back

7:08

from home wherever if you were

7:10

sick. But you also, the kind

7:13

way of putting it was we

7:15

watched over everybody. It wasn't like

7:18

to get stupo or anything, but

7:20

if you knew your partner or

7:22

your neighbor was going through a

7:25

rough divorce or if they were

7:27

doing strange things, you know, over

7:29

using alcohol, which that was... That

7:32

was kind of a hard call

7:34

back in those days, you know.

7:36

They didn't de- glamourize alcohol until

7:39

1973, so it was glamorous before

7:41

then. You didn't want to, obviously,

7:44

any kind of illegal drug use,

7:46

just as it is now, would

7:48

be an automatic disqualifier. A number

7:51

of things that could cause you

7:53

to be distracted would get your

7:55

PRP pulled unless you got rectified

7:58

or... You couldn't, like I say,

8:00

either discharged or moved into another,

8:02

another job. Right, right, and what?

8:05

What were the sort of most

8:07

valuable lessons or skills you acquired

8:10

in that training, would you say?

8:12

Oh gosh, strategic air command ran

8:14

the show, and SAC was known

8:17

as the most powerful military organization

8:19

the world's ever known, because we

8:21

had demand bombers and a lot

8:24

of bombs. We had all of

8:26

the ICBMs. SAC was just dead

8:28

serious. That was an almost humorless

8:31

outfit. Of course, we managed to

8:33

have her own. cryptic humor, you

8:36

know, you got people in the

8:38

military going to find a way

8:40

to eat some kind of enjoyment

8:43

out of it, even if it's

8:45

the expense of the organization you're

8:47

working for. But discipline, I would

8:50

say, and strict checklist orientation, this

8:52

was not a place to be

8:54

creative. You learn that checklist and

8:57

at least you learned where the

8:59

heck it was. And we practiced

9:02

the emergency order procedures going into

9:04

World War III every month, and

9:06

I was an instructor and evaluator

9:09

in two different systems, airborne ground

9:11

system. I don't know how many

9:13

hundreds of times I've either participated

9:16

in or instructed or evaluated water

9:18

procedures going to nuclear war, basically.

9:20

So it's just repetition. It's just,

9:23

they would throw different situations at

9:25

you. It's like any other military

9:28

organization, you're going to fight like

9:30

you train, and we train heavily.

9:32

Written testing every month, 90% required

9:35

for passing, and nobody wanted to

9:37

make 90% because you were just

9:39

on the razor's edge there. So

9:42

you hit the books, code handling

9:44

testing, same thing, a lot of

9:46

pressure, actually. And like I say,

9:49

I was on crew for 11

9:51

years. So you... You got used

9:54

to it. You knew what the

9:56

drill was. You know, you had

9:58

to be ready. Yeah,

10:01

indeed. I mean, when you're doing

10:04

those simulations, does it actually go

10:06

down to the point where you

10:08

are turning a key? Absolutely. Absolutely.

10:10

You bet the simulators, we had

10:12

two electronic simulators here, and absolutely

10:15

you could fight fires and do

10:17

shutdowns, fight the war. And believe

10:19

me, when you're in there, you're

10:21

turning those keys, it felt real.

10:24

You know. Simulators, they had no

10:26

motion capability. That would have been

10:28

way cool, but everything else was

10:30

exactly like it would have been

10:33

in the launch control center, identical.

10:35

So, once again, you fight like

10:37

your training. Yeah, I guess it

10:39

must have been quite sobering thinking

10:42

of the implications of what... you

10:44

would be doing if you were

10:46

turning those keys? Well, absolutely. You

10:48

know, there was a lot of

10:51

graveyard humor, you know, and making

10:53

light of stuff, but I don't

10:55

think there was anybody that ever

10:57

went through the training to perform

10:59

that job that didn't realize the

11:02

seriousness of it. When I walked

11:04

through that doorway going past that

11:06

16,000 pound blast door, and we

11:08

closed that door behind us. You

11:11

know, you're doing something serious. Can

11:13

you remember the first time you

11:15

stepped into the launch control center

11:17

and went down into the capsule?

11:20

As a matter of fact, I

11:22

came out a year early. I

11:24

knew I was going into the

11:26

missiles and I took leave and

11:29

came up here and a friend

11:31

of my milk hench was a

11:33

crew member and he took me

11:35

out there. showed me the capsule

11:38

and I was kind of amazed

11:40

at how complex it was and

11:42

having been since then to the

11:44

Titan II missile down at Green

11:46

Valley Arizona at the Titan Museum

11:49

down there. I now realize how

11:51

simple our system was. I studiously

11:53

avoided anything with liquid propellant of

11:55

course. It was just terribly dangerous

11:58

and complex and I was thankful

12:00

to be in a solid propellant

12:02

situation here where you didn't have

12:04

to worry about the missile exploding.

12:07

Of course the missiles were four

12:09

to 14 miles away from us.

12:11

Each launch control center controlled 10

12:13

of them. and they were at

12:16

least three miles away from each

12:18

other to keep the Russians from

12:20

getting more than one target at

12:22

the time. So our missile field

12:25

here at Ellsworth covered 13,500 square

12:27

miles bigger than the state of

12:29

Maryland. A lot of space there.

12:31

Wow, that's an incredible size. I

12:33

can imagine that with this role

12:36

there is a lot of waiting

12:38

around. I mean... How long were

12:40

the shifts? And how did you

12:42

deal with what I imagine was

12:45

the monotony of the task? Well,

12:47

you know, the shift work, when

12:49

I was on, we saw three

12:51

different varieties of it. And since

12:54

then, I'll go into that in

12:56

a minute, but we started out

12:58

Minuteman 1 with 24-hour shifts. We'd

13:00

do two of those a week,

13:03

eight of those a month, come

13:05

out in the morning, leave the

13:07

next morning, and one of us

13:09

could sleep. So those were really

13:12

good shifts and that's where they've

13:14

shifted back to nowadays, except they

13:16

go out for a week. And

13:18

they have a crew topside and

13:20

one downstairs and every 24 hours

13:23

they rotate. During COVID they went

13:25

out for two weeks at a

13:27

time because they were just deathly

13:29

afraid that the crew force would

13:32

get sick and take the hold

13:34

deterrent down. But 24-hour, once we

13:36

got into Minuteman Modernized, they went

13:38

to the improved computer and the

13:41

F missile over the B missile.

13:43

We went into the 36-hour, which

13:45

was, you went out for 36.

13:47

hours, you were down 12, up

13:50

12, down 12, and then you

13:52

went home. Both crew members had

13:54

to stay awake for that. And

13:56

then the worst of them was

13:59

the 40-hour tours. Those were, they'd

14:01

file up your body, your biot

14:03

rhythms, went to hell. You were

14:05

down eight, up eight, down eight,

14:07

down eight, and then home. So

14:10

you came in to work at

14:12

the Lost Control Center in the

14:14

morning, and you left the next

14:16

afternoon or evening. And it was

14:19

very tough to get sleep on

14:21

that first shift and the top

14:23

side and tough again. The reason

14:25

we had to have both crew

14:28

members awake was weapons safety, remembering

14:30

that nuclear safety was job one

14:32

here. It wasn't launching missiles. Day

14:34

to day we didn't launch a

14:37

single missile, but we had to

14:39

be ready, but safety was always

14:41

job one. And I described the

14:43

change that they've got now where

14:46

they go out for much longer

14:48

periods of time. They came in,

14:50

that went on for a period

14:52

of time, a number of years,

14:54

and the challenge we had, like

14:57

I say, was nuclear safety. They

14:59

didn't want two crazies and two

15:01

separate capsules to be able to

15:03

knock their partners in the head

15:06

and start World War III. So

15:08

you had both crew members awake.

15:10

They came in with a... an

15:12

enabled system where you had to

15:15

get a code from higher headquarters

15:17

that you had no access to

15:19

day. And once they got that

15:21

along with, we had some flimsy

15:24

little seals called PES seals, positive

15:26

enable seals that came out a

15:28

year after I left the ground

15:30

system. Those were checked at every

15:33

change over with a special little

15:35

light magnifying glass to make sure

15:37

nobody tampered. with any of the

15:39

critical components, those are things that

15:41

could arm or launch nuclear weapons.

15:44

So that, once they got that

15:46

in there, we go back to

15:48

having one person. So nowadays when

15:50

they go out for seven days,

15:53

one of the two crew members

15:55

downstairs can be sleeping. But the

15:57

last two of the four years

15:59

I was there, you had to

16:02

be awake. Both crew members awake

16:04

on duty. What facilities did you

16:06

have once that blast door is

16:08

closed? Presumably you've got a toilet,

16:11

a bunk, and how do you

16:13

handle meals and things like that?

16:15

Well, the meals, the meals were

16:17

surprisingly good. I like the prepared

16:20

meals, flash frozen meals, called foil

16:22

packs. Of course, when they went

16:24

to microwave ovens, they had to

16:26

go to plastic packs for obvious

16:28

reasons. But the Salisbury steak, all-grotten

16:31

potatoes and chocolate cake, I'd eat

16:33

that three times a week if

16:35

I could get it now. Breakfast

16:37

were good. The chefs, they call

16:40

them now. They're a lot better

16:42

prepared, I guess. We lost a

16:44

lot of our best cooks to

16:46

Vietnam. And so they came up

16:49

with the improved TV dinners, basically.

16:51

It's what they were. Much larger

16:53

entrees that you could order. And

16:55

they'd send them down in the

16:58

elevator, or the cook would bring

17:00

them down one of the two.

17:02

Send the dirty dishes back up.

17:04

But it was pretty Spartan. I

17:07

mean, the chairs were comfortable. They

17:09

were aircraft chairs. They could be

17:11

reclined. They could be rotated around,

17:13

adjusted, whatever. They were on rails.

17:15

So if we were strapped in

17:18

like during war, we never strapped

17:20

in when I was down there

17:22

except in the simulator. And that

17:24

was to keep you from becoming

17:27

a crash test down these launch

17:29

control centers themselves were called the

17:31

Acoustical Enclosure. It was a box

17:33

like a shipping container hanging from

17:36

a ceiling of a capsule. by

17:38

four shock absorbers. And so it

17:40

would take a heck of a

17:42

shock. That thing was rated at

17:45

a thousand pounds per square inch.

17:47

But they were never built for

17:49

a direct hit. See, when they

17:51

were engineered, the Russians couldn't hit

17:54

the broadside of a burn with

17:56

a broom. They were as likely

17:58

to hit the wall drug or

18:00

the badlands or cadaco miles away

18:02

as they were us. So you

18:05

actually stood a chance back in

18:07

the early days of maybe riding

18:09

out. This time we're alone, of

18:11

course they got more accurate, just

18:14

as we did. And that's why

18:16

we had to get a lot

18:18

faster in getting those things cranked

18:20

out. And that was one of

18:23

the major changes when we, in

18:25

1973, modernized movement. Everything got really,

18:27

really compacted and faster. This

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exclusion supply. Oh

59:48

gosh, I'll give you a good

59:50

pet for Kennedy there. I only

59:52

regret that I had one life

59:55

to give for my country. answer.

59:57

Now the listeners to the podcast

59:59

can actually meet you or see

1:00:02

you at the Minuteman missile National

1:00:04

Historic Site because you're one of

1:00:06

the, you're a Ranger there. That's

1:00:09

correct. So can you describe what

1:00:11

there is there for people to

1:00:13

see and how they can get

1:00:16

there? Absolutely. First of all, we're

1:00:18

a three-part park. Our visitor center

1:00:20

is at exit 131 off of

1:00:23

I-90. It's about an hour drive

1:00:25

east of Rapid City, South Dakota,

1:00:27

which is the second biggest city

1:00:30

in South Dakota, and strung out

1:00:32

in the line going back toward

1:00:35

Rapid City Wall, which is the

1:00:37

next biggest town to the west,

1:00:39

21 miles away. Four miles west

1:00:42

of us off of I-90, is

1:00:44

Delta One, which is our launch

1:00:46

control center. and launch control facility

1:00:49

at Topside. Now we do offer

1:00:51

tours there. If you're coming in

1:00:53

the summer, you'll want to make

1:00:56

your reservations 90 days in advance

1:00:58

and you want to be there

1:01:00

online at 1201 a.m. Mountain Time,

1:01:03

ready to push the button because

1:01:05

it is a phenomenally popular tour

1:01:07

and a phenomenally small elevator. Okay,

1:01:10

we can get six people plus

1:01:12

the tour guide on there. and

1:01:15

we only do four tours a

1:01:17

day. Now, if you come here

1:01:19

today in the wintertime, you can

1:01:22

get any tour you want out

1:01:24

there. Of course, you have to

1:01:26

put up with bad weather and

1:01:29

what have you, but wintertime is

1:01:31

the time to do it. If

1:01:33

you live in the nearby, you

1:01:36

happen to be in the area.

1:01:38

But beyond that, the missile itself,

1:01:40

which is 11 miles west of

1:01:43

the launch control facility, or 15

1:01:45

miles west, just six miles east

1:01:47

of Wall. That's the launcher and

1:01:50

we have a training missile in

1:01:52

there. Looks just dead on like

1:01:54

the real deal. You can park

1:01:57

in the parking. lot walk about

1:01:59

100 yards up from the bathroom

1:02:02

there and look down through the

1:02:04

glass see the 57 foot minute

1:02:06

man off missile sitting in the

1:02:09

80 foot silo you can go

1:02:11

ooh and leave or dial the

1:02:13

phone number that's supposed to drive

1:02:16

there and on the brochure and

1:02:18

take a nice 10 to 15

1:02:20

minute 10 point of interest audio

1:02:23

tour that will explain most of

1:02:25

the stuff that you're looking at

1:02:27

in a real concise manner. Our

1:02:30

website is great Virtually anything we

1:02:32

do, our movie, our park movies

1:02:34

on their 28-minute movie on the

1:02:37

Cold War on the Minute Man.

1:02:39

And to get there, go to

1:02:41

nPS.gov slash mimi, mi-m-i, which is

1:02:44

our park designator. And you've got

1:02:46

drop-downs, or you can scroll down

1:02:49

there. I do a launch control

1:02:51

center tour on there. It takes

1:02:53

about 25 minutes. It's the same

1:02:56

tour you get if you paid

1:02:58

your money. You do not get

1:03:00

the elevator shaft and you don't

1:03:03

get the official old government building

1:03:05

smell. Okay, those are two disadvantages

1:03:07

of taking it online. But like

1:03:10

I say, our park movies on

1:03:12

there are all kinds of resources

1:03:14

for teachers. We've got an antique

1:03:17

kids movie on there that's priceless.

1:03:19

Anyone interested in the minimum missile.

1:03:21

And if they can't make it

1:03:24

out here into the Great American

1:03:26

Outback, they can sure get a

1:03:29

lot of information online. Yeah, I

1:03:31

can heartily recommend that. The website

1:03:33

really helped me put together the

1:03:36

questions for you, Jim, and the

1:03:38

videos are excellent. I would love

1:03:40

to come out there and see

1:03:43

the site and meet you face

1:03:45

to face, but it's a bit

1:03:47

of a trek from... the UK

1:03:50

and I'm not sure I could

1:03:52

convince my wife it would be

1:03:54

a fantastic holiday. Well just tell

1:03:57

Mount Rushmore and Joe Cave and

1:03:59

Wind Cave and the Badlands and

1:04:01

we've got... a whole bunch of

1:04:04

national park facilities out here in

1:04:06

just a 7500 mile radius. Oh,

1:04:08

okay. I'll try and sell it

1:04:11

on the basis of the wonders

1:04:13

of the natural world rather than

1:04:16

the... Yeah. Well, it's a land

1:04:18

of infinite variety, too. I mean,

1:04:20

we got the bad lands. There's

1:04:23

a reason they're not called the

1:04:25

good lands right across from us

1:04:27

here. And then you just go

1:04:30

an hour west and you got

1:04:32

the Black Hills. Those are the

1:04:34

highest mountains between the Rockies and

1:04:37

the Alps. Okay. Well, you know,

1:04:39

they call them hills out here,

1:04:41

but we call alligators lizards too.

1:04:44

So... Jim, it's been an absolute

1:04:46

pleasure to speak with you today.

1:04:48

Well, yeah, it's been my pleasure

1:04:51

completely. Thank you so much for

1:04:53

the hospitality. The episode extras such

1:04:55

as videos, photos and other content

1:04:58

are available via a link in

1:05:00

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